The Charlie Kirk Show - Congressman Matt Gaetz vs. The DC Cartel

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00:00:08.000 Hey, everybody.

00:00:08.000 Today on the Charlie Kirk Show, an exclusive conversation with my friend, Congressman Matt Gates.

00:00:13.000 He goes through how corrupt D.C. is.

00:00:15.000 He goes through the process of how many of our elected representatives are bought and paid for by transnational corporations.

00:00:21.000 Some pretty eye-opening stuff.

00:00:22.000 He's got a new book that you should check out.

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00:00:51.000 Matt Gates is here, everybody.

00:00:52.000 Buckle up.

00:00:53.000 Here we go.

00:00:55.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:56.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campuses.

00:00:59.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

00:01:02.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:01:05.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:01:06.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:01:07.000 His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created.

00:01:14.000 Turning point USA.

00:01:16.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

00:01:24.000 That's why we are here.

00:01:28.000 Hey, everybody.

00:01:29.000 Welcome to this episode of the Charlie Kirk Show.

00:01:31.000 We are thrilled to be joined today by my friend and one of the only good guys in Congress, Congressman Matt Gates, author of the new book, Firebrand, Dispatches from the Front Lines of the MAGA Revolution.

00:01:42.000 Everyone, go pick up your copy.

00:01:44.000 Matt, welcome back to the Charlie Kirk Show.

00:01:46.000 It's good to be back, Charlie.

00:01:47.000 I always get the best social media and engagement when I'm on the Charlie Kirk show because I get all the turning point influencers.

00:01:54.000 The influencer army that you've built online continues to amplify the America first message that we're both fighting for.

00:02:01.000 Well, thank you.

00:02:02.000 I deeply appreciate that.

00:02:03.000 And we've grown in the last couple of years, as have you in your presence and the following that you have grown so tremendously.

00:02:13.000 So, Matt, tell us about this book.

00:02:14.000 Tell us why you wrote it.

00:02:16.000 And also just kind of give us a little bit of an update from the front lines of the MAGA revolution.

00:02:22.000 Well, I view the Trump movement as one that is not just built around a man, but that is built around a series of ideas.

00:02:31.000 And so really, you know, Firebrand is the book that folks ought to read right after they read the MAGA Doctrine because together, it really identifies the policies and the style that we need to ensure that this is an enduring movement.

00:02:45.000 It won't be enough for your generation and mine if we do all kind of great things during the Trump presidency, which I suspect will last an additional four years, and then we just go back to the Bushes or the Cheneys or the Romneys or the Kasichs.

00:02:58.000 I think that the populist enthusiasm that we see right now in the Republican Party is the result of things like standing against endless wars, standing against the big tech tyranny that is trying to stifle debate in our country, actively opposing the cancel culture, not just self-canceling, but getting out there and identifying circumstances where people have been treated unfairly and then actually un-canceling people so that folks can make a full contribution to society.

00:03:27.000 But the main thing I wanted to identify in the book is the culture of corruption in Washington, D.C. that is driven by money.

00:03:35.000 I am the only Republican congressman who does not take any PAC money.

00:03:39.000 And it is because after three and a half years in this place, it looks a whole lot more like prostitution than it does fundraising.

00:03:46.000 It is the exchange of money for favors and benefits.

00:03:50.000 And it is explicit.

00:03:52.000 They show up to these Washington fundraiser events, and I describe in the book how it happens.

00:03:57.000 And literally, they go around the table telling you how much money they've brought and what they expect from you, signing on to a letter, co-sponsoring a bill, voting for something or against something in a committee.

00:04:08.000 And like the first few times I went to these things, I was kind of wondering, like, is anyone here wearing a wire?

00:04:12.000 Because it felt like a straight-up shakedown.

00:04:15.000 The other thing is that committees are just bought and sold in Congress, and this is on both sides of the aisle.

00:04:19.000 Like, if you want to be on a certain committee, there's a certain amount of money that you are expected to provide to the political apparatus of your leadership.

00:04:27.000 And if you don't do that, you won't get those committees.

00:04:29.000 I had to pay $75,000 to get on the Armed Services Committee from my political fund to the Paul Ryan-managed political fund at that time.

00:04:38.000 And, you know, I figured, Charlie, if it was for sale, I didn't want to just pay once.

00:04:42.000 I paid twice, so I gave him $150,000.

00:04:44.000 That's how I also ended up on the Judiciary Committee, which is how most of the country knows about my work.

00:04:50.000 Well, Congressman, can you talk about, I mean, it's just hard for me to process that.

00:04:55.000 And first of all, you deserve to be completely applauded for your stance on that.

00:04:59.000 And as soon as you made that announcement at CPAC, I sent you enthusiastic text messages.

00:05:04.000 Guys said, this is exactly what is needed.

00:05:06.000 And quite honestly, Alexandria Kaiser-Cortez, Elon Omar, Rashida Talib, when they say they don't take PAC money, it's hard to do that.

00:05:13.000 Can you talk about how it's harder to raise money without kind of the corporate K-Street lobbyist revenue stream?

00:05:21.000 I mean, it's easier just to go to the corporate class and say, please give me the $2,800 minimum and max out to my leadership pack, and I'll do whatever you ask on these certain committees.

00:05:31.000 And what we have is this kind of fusion of the largest transnational companies that do not love our country and our government.

00:05:38.000 And that is fascist in nature.

00:05:40.000 I think we're actually flirting with fascism more than socialism, not because of President Trump, actually predated him, but it's a small select few of chosen companies that are allowed special access to the albatross of the government.

00:05:53.000 Can you talk about how hard it is to not get those, not raise money that way, and also why you think more Republicans should follow your example?

00:06:03.000 I think President Trump has created a dynamic in politics that doesn't prioritize money first.

00:06:10.000 If you look at all of politics before President Trump, you can almost say whoever has the most money is tremendously likely to win.

00:06:17.000 President Trump had less money than Hillary Clinton, but he won with message and with movement and inspiration.

00:06:23.000 And so I don't raise as much money as my colleagues.

00:06:26.000 I don't want to pretend as though I'm some fundraising giant.

00:06:30.000 In reality, I raise far less.

00:06:31.000 But I don't think the money is as important if you tell people what you believe and if you're clear and if you tell people the truth and if that is inspiring and motivating.

00:06:40.000 And so what I've learned is that if you're active and energetic on social media, if you go on television and tell people what you believe every night, if in the committee hearings you don't play by the stiff, stodgy rules of the dad ties and the old man cologne, but you bring a little enthusiasm to the endeavor, that people will actually vote for you and support you and they will not believe the normal, hokey, 30-second political advertising that a lot of this money fuels.

00:07:08.000 I mean, think about it, Charlie.

00:07:09.000 When people raise money in Washington, they pay one person to go get it from the pack checks.

00:07:14.000 They pay another person to deposit it and manage it.

00:07:16.000 They pay another person to create a television ad, and then they pay another person to actually place that television ad.

00:07:22.000 So I'm just trying to cut out all the middlemen.

00:07:24.000 I just go on television, I go on social media, I say what I believe, but it does result in less money.

00:07:29.000 But I think that if you buy the Trump theory of the case, that this is about a macro message, making our country great, putting our people first, being joyous about it.

00:07:39.000 I mean, gosh, like, you know, one thing I admire about you, Charlie, is that you could go in the lion's den and you got a smile on your face.

00:07:45.000 And you always kind of give me this half grin and say it's your inner peace.

00:07:48.000 But the reality is, you know, you're there for a purpose.

00:07:52.000 And that sense of purpose drives people.

00:07:54.000 It drives our president and it should drive more of our political leaders.

00:07:58.000 Like, we deserve in the greatest country in the world, politicians who are bold enough to make the tough choices and to define an agenda.

00:08:06.000 And then we need a media that is honest enough to objectively report it.

00:08:10.000 And instead, we get the perverse opposite.

00:08:12.000 We get a bunch of limp-wristed politicians who are just too afraid to take a stand on anything.

00:08:18.000 We see that particularly in the Senate.

00:08:20.000 And then we've got a media class that doesn't want to objectively report on what's happening.

00:08:25.000 They want to make the news.

00:08:26.000 They want to cause things to happen with advocacy journalism like you see at CNN and other places.

00:08:31.000 That's why I wrote the enemy of the people chapter in my book about the president's correct perceptions of the media today and the negative impact that so many of them have on our country.

00:08:41.000 The book is firebrand.

00:08:42.000 Everyone, go pick up a copy now.

00:08:44.000 So, Matt, can you also just build out how you think the Republican Party in the future needs to take no more lobbyist money, no more PAC money?

00:08:52.000 I've said this for quite some time: that whatever party demonstrates to working people that they no longer represent the biggest companies and the lobbying firms will be richly rewarded by the voters.

00:09:03.000 I tell people all the time, people say, Charlie, what's the number one issue in our country?

00:09:07.000 They say, is it health care?

00:09:08.000 Is it taxes?

00:09:10.000 Is it guns?

00:09:10.000 I say, all those things are really important.

00:09:12.000 But the bumbling frustration under all of them that fueled the populist rise of President Trump and the failed populist rise of Bernie Sanders, but still a pretty admirable rise, is that people felt as if their government was bought and paid for by the rich, few, and the well-connected.

00:09:27.000 And they're right.

00:09:28.000 I've seen the same sort of system that you describe.

00:09:30.000 And some of your colleagues in Congress are really good people, but they've been there so long and they just go through the motions and they take the PAC money and then they're actually handcuffed.

00:09:40.000 They're suffocated from saying the right things, from challenging the war machine, from saying we should break up big tech companies, from saying that we should close our borders because there's all these competing revenue flows and this favor exchange that really prevents them from doing the right thing.

00:09:58.000 I actually think Bernie Sanders, despite him being a Bolshevik and all these sorts of things, I think he got this part right, where he said that the campaign finance issue, and I think his policy prescription was awful, but the campaign finance issue is really one of the reasons why we still have a million people coming into our country every single year, why our tech companies act as pseudo-governments in our country, why we still are occupying like a failed empire halfway across the world.

00:10:25.000 It's because our leaders are bought and paid for by these transnational corporations.

00:10:31.000 Matt, can you tell us if any Republicans are following your example?

00:10:35.000 And if not, why?

00:10:37.000 I am the only Republican who's taken this view.

00:10:40.000 And you talk about Bernie and AOC.

00:10:42.000 They're socialists, Charlie, but at least they're sincere socialists.

00:10:46.000 They really believe the damaging things they're saying.

00:10:49.000 They don't say one thing because they are being funded by a particular entity or group.

00:10:54.000 It is honest and sincere.

00:10:55.000 And frankly, in our politics today, Cincerris is very attractive to the voters.

00:10:59.000 I think it's one of the reasons why President Trump being so visceral draws so many people to him.

00:11:05.000 But PAC money in Washington is a lot like meth.

00:11:08.000 Once you start taking it, you got to keep taking it.

00:11:11.000 And when they get new members of Congress here for the orientation process, it's just downright seductive.

00:11:17.000 I mean, I write about the scenes in my book when I first show up to Washington and the first dinner they take you to.

00:11:22.000 I mean, steaks that are worth more than my kidney would fetch on the black market, carafs of wine dancing around the table.

00:11:29.000 And, you know, Paul Ryan at the time stands up sort of as like the king before his lobbyist court.

00:11:34.000 And he told all of us who had newly arrived that the people really responsible for getting us elected were the donors and the lobbyists.

00:11:42.000 And you are told that if you just surrender your voting card to the special interests, that life will be pretty easy for you.

00:11:50.000 People will pay to have dinner with you.

00:11:52.000 People will pay to have drinks with you.

00:11:54.000 You'll get invited to all the cool embassy parties and cocktail circuits in Washington, D.C.

00:12:00.000 And if you're ever really in trouble, there'll be a big corporate-funded super PAC to come and kind of bail you out.

00:12:06.000 But I think that what I'm doing, fighting against that PAC-based system, is only possible because Donald Trump is president.

00:12:14.000 Because what happens is once people start taking PAC money, look, I mean, I'm here for confession, Charlie.

00:12:19.000 I took PAC money.

00:12:20.000 I catfished those PACs out of hundreds of thousands of dollars, you know, my first term and a half.

00:12:25.000 And after I just felt sick and I thought, I just can't do this anymore.

00:12:29.000 And that's why I made a different decision to liberate myself from it.

00:12:32.000 But I understand my colleagues who they've taken hundreds of thousands, some millions from these PACs.

00:12:37.000 And then how do they turn around and say, well, this was a corrupt, bad system that I've been a part of?

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00:14:02.000 Matt, this is why nothing gets done, though.

00:14:04.000 This is why the people are so angry at the political class.

00:14:08.000 And what I love most about you is that you're actually living it out.

00:14:11.000 You're not just saying, oh, we need to stop taking PAC money through this bill.

00:14:15.000 You're actually doing it, and you should continue to demand all your colleagues.

00:14:19.000 And also, Matt, can you talk about how foreign countries are able to engage financially with lobbying firms on K Street?

00:14:28.000 The lobbying firms then take the money from those foreign countries, some of them being Islamic theocratic fascist dictatorships, and then they're able to directly contribute to candidates' campaign packs.

00:14:39.000 All it is is just a laundering scheme.

00:14:41.000 There's no, it's just a little bit off the top, right?

00:14:43.000 So for your trouble, how is it any different than that foreign government giving it directly to Congressman A?

00:14:49.000 And then we wonder why our country has not been the forefront of focus in Congress.

00:14:56.000 I mean, and you've probably seen this firsthand, Matt, where you're like, wait a second, you're a lobbyist and you represent what country?

00:15:02.000 Excuse me?

00:15:03.000 Like, yeah, you're a nice guy, and I guess we agree on college football, but you're engaged for $2 million a month from who?

00:15:09.000 Can you talk about that?

00:15:11.000 Sure, Charlie. 0.96

00:15:12.000 And, you know, the one thing we can say about all foreign countries, whether they're our friends or our enemies, is that ain't a one of them putting America first, right?

00:15:19.000 They're there to put their own countries first.

00:15:21.000 And you've exactly described the system.

00:15:23.000 We talk about the money laundering with the cartels.

00:15:25.000 There's more money laundering on K Street than any cartel ever dreamed of because these foreign companies, like you say, and by the way, the numbers you quote are not out of range.

00:15:34.000 One, two million dollars a month.

00:15:37.000 And then those lobbyists get to keep a good amount of that, but they're expected to deploy the rest of them to buy influence for their clients.

00:15:45.000 And you know what's really egregious?

00:15:47.000 A lot of those lobbyists who go to represent foreign countries are former members of Congress.

00:15:52.000 That's exactly right.

00:15:53.000 Their favorite thing to do is to go buy off former members of Congress.

00:15:53.000 That's their favorite.

00:15:58.000 So I talk about Senator David Vitter, a Republican, who, when he was in the Senate, fought hard against China, against their human rights abuses. 0.62

00:16:07.000 But then, when he was no longer a senator and he was able to become a lobbyist, and I think he was hurt in his race for governor because he got caught up in a prostitution scandal as the John. 0.84

00:16:18.000 But then he comes out and says, Oh, well, you know, now I think these Chinese companies should get special permission. 0.85

00:16:24.000 And he lobbied the Commerce Department to help them get their counterfeit products into the United States.

00:16:28.000 So it turns out Senator Vitter is a lot more dangerous as the trick than as the John, because as the trick, he's actually undermining America and working at the behest of people who hate us.

00:16:40.000 And like, by the way, it's never like the fire brands who end up going and working for these foreign governments.

00:16:45.000 It's always like the establishment types, like the people that you look at and say, oh, well, they were viewed as a good person, a committee chairman or a subcommittee chairman.

00:16:54.000 You know, it's not the people from the freedom caucus that go engage in that behavior.

00:16:58.000 They know who to pick off.

00:16:59.000 They know how.

00:17:00.000 And you know what effect that has?

00:17:01.000 If you're currently in Congress and the job you want after Congress is whoring out to some foreign country or some multinational corporation, you start behaving that way.

00:17:11.000 You start to show them your utility as their valet.

00:17:14.000 And, you know, I think that our politics too often has been dominated by this theory that one party is going to save you and the other party's out to get you.

00:17:21.000 The reality in D.C. too often is that both parties are partying on your dime.

00:17:26.000 That's exactly.

00:17:26.000 And the parties aren't even that fun.

00:17:28.000 And so I, you know, and by the way, the new influence peddler in this game is big tech.

00:17:33.000 You know, we talk about telecom, the military-industrial complex, those are the institutional actors.

00:17:39.000 But big tech has multiple lobbyists for every member of Congress.

00:17:43.000 And their new thing that they do is they go and hire the spouses and family members of powerful members of Congress in exchange for influence.

00:17:52.000 I mean, Chuck Schumer's daughter works for Facebook.

00:17:55.000 You tell me how we're ever going to get a good regulation on Section 230, the Communication Decency Act, to liberate the free speech interests of Americans if you've got one of the most powerful people in the Congress having their family members work for the people that we're supposed to be holding accountable.

00:18:13.000 So let's talk about big tech.

00:18:15.000 You have been one of the leading voices against big tech.

00:18:19.000 I have found in the last couple years, there are two groups of people.

00:18:23.000 Actually, there's probably three groups of people in Republican circles on big tech.

00:18:27.000 There's those that are legitimately concerned, but they're purchased by big tech because they take money from Google Super PEC.

00:18:34.000 And so, again, you get to root causes, Matt.

00:18:38.000 You're not taking the money.

00:18:39.000 So you are free to be able to do what is the right thing for your constituents.

00:18:43.000 There's the second group of people that are not concerned at all, and they're also purchased by big tech.

00:18:48.000 And then there's the third group of people, and that's you, where you're not purchased by big tech and you actually want to do something about it.

00:18:53.000 But what's really interesting is that the Republicans use the same excuse.

00:18:59.000 We're for the free market.

00:19:01.000 Don't you understand?

00:19:02.000 We're for the free market.

00:19:04.000 And they say, we don't want to do any, you know, we want to have innovation, all this sort of stuff.

00:19:07.000 And what's really interesting is that all of the ecosystem that gives them the supposed white paper support is financed by big tech.

00:19:18.000 The biggest think tanks in Washington, D.C. receive seven-figure wires from these international pseudo-government Silicon Valley tyrannical companies.

00:19:27.000 And what's really funny is that these tech companies, they don't believe in Milton Friedman.

00:19:32.000 They don't believe in free markets.

00:19:34.000 They're doing nothing more than buying the ideological gateway so that they get untouched.

00:19:42.000 They just use it as an excuse.

00:19:44.000 And then they'll go to the left and they'll have a different approach, right?

00:19:47.000 They say, oh, you should support us because we're actually fighting for justice and we're fighting for BLM.

00:19:52.000 So they know how to appropriate their money.

00:19:54.000 So, Matt, I think it's long past time.

00:19:56.000 Section 230, Sherman Antitrust Act, break up the companies, tie them up in courts, make their life a living hell.

00:20:03.000 These companies are far too big.

00:20:04.000 They have lied to us.

00:20:05.000 They've said that they've made their products more addictive than tobacco.

00:20:09.000 We as conservatives should love liberty.

00:20:11.000 Love liberty.

00:20:13.000 And if a private company or a bureaucrat is infringing on our liberty, that should bother us.

00:20:18.000 What is the path forward of big tech?

00:20:21.000 Well, step one, beware of the false prophets on the Republican side who give lip service to the issue, but then actually don't want to do anything about it.

00:20:30.000 And then support those of us who are actually trying to do what you said and bring a multifaceted approach to this conflict.

00:20:37.000 Because if we just try one thing, if we just try legislating, we'll hit our head against the wall.

00:20:41.000 If we just try the Federal Elections Commission or the FCC, those are staggered terms, so it takes a while.

00:20:46.000 So my advice to the Trump administration, and I know you've given advice to the Trump administration on this too, is that we have to have a multi-pronged attack on those who would deprive us of the ability to freely communicate.

00:20:57.000 So you got folks like Josh Hawley, my good friend in the Senate, who is sincere about bringing that to bear.

00:21:02.000 But then on the other end of the spectrum, you have people like Ambassador Nikki Haley, someone who a lot of folks think is going to run for president in 2024.

00:21:10.000 And she's out there publicly giving a cat bath to big tech.

00:21:14.000 She tweets that, oh, you know, well, we shouldn't allow censorship of conservatives, but we can't possibly regulate big tech because that would put too many lawyers and bureaucrats in charge of things.

00:21:24.000 And that's even worse.

00:21:25.000 You know what?

00:21:26.000 That's BS.

00:21:27.000 That is the type of talk from somebody who is sucking up to big tech, not somebody who is actually fighting big tech and bringing the creativity to bear that it's going to take to try to create equity and just a platform that is neutral for people to be able to engage.

00:21:44.000 I will cite one thing.

00:21:45.000 Recently, there was a Breitbart story about this where even Facebook executives and content moderators are confessing, well, the reason we have to clamp down so hard on right-wing populism is because it is so popular.

00:21:58.000 Because nothing drives more engagement, particularly on Facebook, than people talking about the MAGA doctrine issue set.

00:22:06.000 You know, ending endless wars, ensuring that we re-domesticate manufacturing, that we become the party of working people.

00:22:14.000 And because that's so popular, they go out of their way to suppress it even more.

00:22:18.000 So I would say to those who are listening to this podcast and around the country and around the conservative movement, let's actually back the real fighters, people like Josh Hawley.

00:22:28.000 I would say Senator Ted Cruz would be on that list, myself, and let's also be aware of those like Nikki Haley, who would just as soon be a valet for big tech than a competent adversary.

00:22:38.000 I think there's three issues, and they're not exclusive when it comes to big tech.

00:22:42.000 It's the censorship issue, it's the monopolization issue, and it's the addiction issue.

00:22:47.000 And I think that all three of those must be handled.

00:22:51.000 And so some people say they focus on the addiction issue.

00:22:55.000 This is what that new movie, Social Dilemma, heavily focuses on.

00:23:00.000 I actually think they did a really good job.

00:23:01.000 I don't know if you've seen it or not yet, Matt.

00:23:03.000 I deleted Netflix after they became a pedophile channel, but I got somebody else's login and I saw it. 0.68

00:23:11.000 And it was very well done.

00:23:12.000 And it was probably the best 75% of a documentary I've ever seen criticizing any sort of company.

00:23:18.000 I mean, they really thought about how they did it.

00:23:20.000 The last 25% of the film was not really great, but they didn't talk about once in the entire film dissident voices, dissident voices, I put in quotes, you know, people like you and I that believe in our country being censored, being shut up, being demonetized, digital assassinations.

00:23:37.000 They didn't mention that at all.

00:23:38.000 And they mentioned very little, just a very simple question.

00:23:43.000 Why should Google be worth $1.3 trillion in their market cap?

00:23:49.000 I understand that they have a really great search capacity.

00:23:51.000 They might be laying some fiber down driverless cars.

00:23:55.000 But in the landscape of rewarding value, is computer processing and having a better algorithm really where we want all of the capital flows in our country to be rewarding?

00:24:07.000 And we've had a hardware crisis of innovation the last couple decades where planes go almost the same speed, cars go marginally faster, yet computers are 1 trillion percent more efficient.

00:24:18.000 And what I'm afraid that we're doing is that we are rewarding these companies with hard-earned middle-class dollars that are migrating from building physical infrastructure and much-needed hardware advancements to a small select people of, first of all, they all hate our country.

00:24:34.000 They've all been educated at the universities that do not share our worldview, and they have so much power and wealth.

00:24:40.000 Can you just talk about this just strictly from an economic monopolization standpoint?

00:24:44.000 Because we as conservatives, we just like run away.

00:24:46.000 Like, oh, no, no company can ever be too big.

00:24:48.000 I'm like, no, actually, it can be too big.

00:24:50.000 Yeah, I mean, you know, I don't blame any business person who wants to be a monopoly.

00:24:56.000 All businesses should strive to be a monopoly, but statesmen should strive to bust them up when they aren't serving the interests of our country.

00:25:05.000 And that's what's happening right now with big tech.

00:25:07.000 Monopolies aren't just bad for America.

00:25:10.000 Over time, they actually become bad for the monopoly as well, because as you described, innovation is eroded, costs go up, and there's a lethargy that results from that.

00:25:21.000 Look back, look at the last big breakup.

00:25:23.000 I mean, when Bell broke up, what was the result?

00:25:26.000 More innovation, lower cost, more consumer access.

00:25:30.000 And so I think that we can benefit from these actions.

00:25:34.000 It's interesting.

00:25:34.000 I don't mean to interrupt, Matt.

00:25:35.000 I really don't.

00:25:35.000 I had a corporate think tank-funded person come up to me the other day, and he gets lots of money from big tech, right?

00:25:40.000 Just the same sort of system with the Congress people, right?

00:25:42.000 Just completely bought and paid for.

00:25:44.000 He might as well just wear a Google Blazer, right?

00:25:47.000 And so he said, no, no, no.

00:25:48.000 When we broke up Google, Google, when we broke up Bell, it was the worst thing ever.

00:25:52.000 Eight patents a day that we were getting. 0.89

00:25:54.000 It's some ridiculous thing.

00:25:55.000 I said, what are you talking about? 0.63

00:25:56.000 So they're already trying to rewrite this idea that the breakups have been anti-innovation.

00:26:02.000 And so can you lean into that more though, Matt?

00:26:05.000 Well, yeah, I mean, look at the video capacity.

00:26:07.000 Look at the lower price.

00:26:09.000 Look at the extended options.

00:26:11.000 That didn't happen previously.

00:26:12.000 And if you look at the innovation over the telecommunications space, it's not linear, right?

00:26:16.000 It's been exponential recently.

00:26:18.000 And that's because people have been out there trying to beat one another, provide services that the other did not.

00:26:23.000 I mean, the reason there's an LG phone, the reason there's a Samsung phone is because first there was an iPhone.

00:26:28.000 And if folks just had one particular communications vehicle or communications provider or telecom provider, you would not have had that opportunity for different options, different features, and more Americans working in that sector.

00:26:42.000 So I think that there are very few people that would want to go back to the days of Bell.

00:26:46.000 I think most of us would doubt whether or not Bell would have produced us the smartphone and some of the things that a lot of Americans, frankly, enjoy right now.

00:26:54.000 But look, I mean, where I think that that person may be right when they speak to you is that we've got to do a better job telling the story to Americans about how this impacts their lives, right?

00:27:05.000 When this is just like an esoteric intellectual discussion where, you know, we talk about, you know, monopolies and the other side talks about markets, it can get lost on the average person.

00:27:16.000 And the reason, you know, we're currently losing that debate and we've got to do more, when you survey the average American, survey the American people and say, do you trust Amazon to do the right thing?

00:27:26.000 86% say yes.

00:27:29.000 When they ask, do you trust Congress to do the right thing?

00:27:32.000 9% say yes.

00:27:34.000 And so I think that there are those who would, I think, maybe surrender to the big tech tyranny, but that is not how we advance a country.

00:27:43.000 And that's why our leadership has to do more.

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00:28:53.000 The favorability of Amazon is probably as high as it is because they all get their packages sent to them on time and they see some sort of value created, unlike Congress.

00:29:02.000 And Amazon generally does what they say they're going to do.

00:29:05.000 What they don't understand, though, is how Amazon has created a multi-dimensional economic empire that has no interest in middle-class workers in domesticating manufacturing, in allowing free and equal voices.

00:29:22.000 And Amazon Web Services is basically taking over the entire cloud computing landscape.

00:29:29.000 And Amazon's just one of the examples.

00:29:31.000 I think that we cannot become too broad in our indictment of big tech.

00:29:35.000 I think you need to find an enemy, isolate it, personalize it, polarize it, and defeat it.

00:29:40.000 I didn't come up with that.

00:29:41.000 Sawinsky did, but actually it works.

00:29:44.000 And I think rule number eight of Saelinski's rules for radicals is keep the pressure on.

00:29:48.000 I think we have to make Google the only one.

00:29:50.000 I think that if you get too broad...

00:29:52.000 One of the most dangerous.

00:29:53.000 So can you talk about that?

00:29:54.000 I think from a strategic standpoint, we make a mistake when we say big tech.

00:29:58.000 I do it too.

00:29:58.000 I think we have to find one company.

00:30:02.000 And then what will happen is the other companies will actually join you in that critique and criticism.

00:30:07.000 And in some ways, you can actually disrupt the landscape.

00:30:10.000 I think Google is more dangerous than all the other tech companies combined.

00:30:13.000 You might not agree with me on that, but based on what I've seen.

00:30:16.000 So please tell us what your thoughts on that.

00:30:18.000 So the reason what you've described, the reason that's hard is because when we see Twitter labeling the president, shadow banning myself, Mark Meadows, Jim Jordan, Devin Nunes, when we see Facebook taking content about coronavirus offline just because the Facebook moderators have determined that you shouldn't be able to decide the truth or falsity of that statement, it enrages us.

00:30:40.000 And we want to point to that and say this is wrong.

00:30:41.000 We have to fix it.

00:30:42.000 But Google is the biggest problem because it is the aggregator, essentially, the publisher, the distributor of most of the content that is consumed based on their dominance in search.

00:30:53.000 And so they can define who Charlie Kirk or Matt Gates are based on the first page of our Google search results.

00:31:01.000 Because if someone meets you, they're interested in your ideas.

00:31:03.000 Likely one of the first things they're going to do is Google you.

00:31:05.000 And so, you know, you could have the most glowing reviews, the best things written about you from widely distributed publications that millions of people have seen, but they'll go find that like tiny little left-wing magazine from nowhere, Illinois, and then say, aha, like this is the number one thing that people have to read about Charlie Kirk, and it is a distorted view.

00:31:28.000 It's why when we had all of the major big tech, the big four tech CEOs before the House Antitrust Subcommittee in Judiciary, I spent most of my time questioning Sundar Pachai, the CEO of the United States.

00:31:39.000 You did a great job, buddy.

00:31:41.000 Well, thank you.

00:31:42.000 One scene, one image that I just found was particularly noteworthy.

00:31:45.000 After Donald Trump wins the 2016 election, they all have a meeting in Sundar's office, the senior leadership of Google.

00:31:52.000 And the main topic of the meeting is what did we do wrong to allow Donald Trump to win?

00:31:59.000 And what can we do next time to ensure that he doesn't?

00:32:02.000 And why that's revealing is because it shows the low view that they have of democracy and the American people.

00:32:08.000 They don't think that this is a country where the people should get to vote and choose their leaders.

00:32:13.000 They think that they are the social, intellectual, technical elite, and that the people should only see what they want them to see and that they should really be making the decisions.

00:32:22.000 And so if the people disagree with their big tech overlords, that's not democracy working.

00:32:27.000 That's the overlords not using enough of their power.

00:32:30.000 And so now, you know, they're doing it a lot more.

00:32:33.000 Frankly, one of the things that still worries me about 2020, though I do think the president's going to win, is that we caught him by surprise in 2016.

00:32:40.000 I mean, they really didn't think Trump could win.

00:32:42.000 And so a lot of ways we were able to mobilize that silent majority, and we shocked the world.

00:32:48.000 I think it'll be less shocking when Donald Trump wins in 2020 because it'll be the second time, but it'll be facing far more substantial headwinds because I think they're putting their thumb on the scale a lot more.

00:32:59.000 I agree with that in part.

00:33:01.000 The part I'm not sure of is whether or not we'll surprise them or not.

00:33:05.000 They still seem incredibly confident they're going to win right now.

00:33:08.000 And so I don't know.

00:33:09.000 Maybe I'm wrong.

00:33:10.000 And so I think that when we talk about big tech, Apple can't be excluded from the conversation because they are very dangerous, the Apple News, App Store, and all of that.

00:33:20.000 My advice and my suggestion to people is you have to find a singular target or else they're all going to band together.

00:33:25.000 And the combined force of Facebook, Amazon, Apple, Google, I think is too big.

00:33:31.000 They actually are more solvent.

00:33:32.000 They're more powerful and they're better funded than our own government.

00:33:36.000 But if you find one, no, they are.

00:33:38.000 And they have more data.

00:33:39.000 But can they benefit out of that?

00:33:41.000 They're like fish in a school, right?

00:33:42.000 If you don't target one, sort of the school of fish can be disoriented.

00:33:46.000 That's right.

00:33:46.000 And so DAF, G-A-A-F, Google, Amazon, Apple, Facebook, their combined power, if they all realize that they're allies, not adversaries, I'm afraid that's what's going to happen if we don't single out the target, is that they will create their own kind of advocacy group.

00:34:03.000 They'll combine their best practices and they'll work in a collusion mindset.

00:34:07.000 I think that one thing we have to do is isolate one and turn them against each other.

00:34:10.000 I could be wrong.

00:34:11.000 That's a strategic point for you and I later.

00:34:14.000 Well, and I think that's true domestically. 0.85

00:34:17.000 But I also want to take a moment, Charlie, to talk about the way that foreign tech is impacting our security.

00:34:23.000 And I know you and I have both discussed this TikTok issue with the president. 0.97

00:34:27.000 I think we might have been the first ones to talk to him about what TikTok was.

00:34:30.000 I don't know that our young at heart, but still boomer in age president was a big TikTok guy before his time in public life.

00:34:39.000 But, you know, to me, a bad deal is worse than no deal. 0.74

00:34:45.000 Just kicking them out with no deal would be better than a bad deal that allows TikTok to continue to grow and serve China's strategic interests.

00:34:53.000 But I don't think we should stop there.

00:34:55.000 I think we should ban TikTok.

00:34:56.000 I think we should ban DJI drones, which are the Chinese drones that fly in our skies, often by our own law enforcement around our critical infrastructure. 0.67

00:35:04.000 That, by the way, our own Department of Homeland Security says is feeding stuff right back to the Chinese Communist Party. 0.95

00:35:10.000 And then also BGI genomics.

00:35:12.000 The Chinese are taking major positions in these companies that look at our ancestry and our DNA. 0.91

00:35:19.000 And certainly following the China virus, the last thing I want to see is the American genome or the genomes of any population of Americans sequenced and then isolated for vulnerability for the Chinese. 0.56

00:35:32.000 And so I think we need a far broader approach.

00:35:34.000 TikTok's a good start, but I wouldn't end there.

00:35:40.000 Look, you're probably listening.

00:35:43.000 You're listening to the Charlie Kirk show right now, or else you wouldn't hear me say this.

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00:36:45.000 Kind of on that kind of foreign policy point, can you talk about ending the endless wars?

00:36:49.000 This is one of the things I am most supportive of in your commentary and your advocacy.

00:36:56.000 And when you publish writings or tweets, I'm so thrilled to see Republicans take a stand against the war machine.

00:37:03.000 You and I are not too dissimilar in age.

00:37:07.000 One of my earliest memories was 9-11 when I was in second grade seeing that happen.

00:37:13.000 From that point forward, I've known nothing but a nation at war.

00:37:17.000 And quite honestly, misdirected, misguided, endless nation building, not even war.

00:37:23.000 The U.S. military is the best at killing our enemies and breaking stuff. 0.93

00:37:27.000 We are not good at bringing Western values to theocratic Islamic dictatorships when they don't even want us there while we have our own suffering citizenry, bridges that can't be built, roads that can't be reconstructed, kids that cannot read, families that are falling apart. 0.88

00:37:45.000 And yet I have to be lectured by the Republicans in Congress that we need to have another 10-year extension so that we can make the Kandahar Valley a little bit safer. 0.96

00:37:55.000 Quite honestly, I am growing impatient with the war machine dominance on the Republican side.

00:38:00.000 Matt, what is your take?

00:38:02.000 Why do you believe that you believe on this?

00:38:04.000 And how can people, you know, basically help with it?

00:38:07.000 Yeah, I don't think we're radical to say that we should rebuild America before we rebuild Kandahar.

00:38:12.000 And we've got Republicans like Liz Cheney who've been in favor of like 10 out of the last three wars and who would like to start like four more of them before lunchtime tomorrow.

00:38:22.000 And I stand as a counterbalance to that.

00:38:25.000 And it's not that there aren't bullies in the world.

00:38:28.000 We're not Pollyanna.

00:38:29.000 We understand that there are bullies.

00:38:31.000 I think President Trump knows how to deal with a bully.

00:38:34.000 You punch him right in the nose and you give them a second thought before they ever mess with you again.

00:38:39.000 That's why the president was right to take out Soleimani.

00:38:41.000 It's why he was right to take the leader of al-Qaeda on the Arabian Peninsula off the battlefield.

00:38:47.000 Yes, the whole deal.

00:38:49.000 But the prior generation of leadership from Obama, Bush, that whole crowd, they thought that the way to deal with a bully was to move into their house for 20 years, trying to realign their worldview.

00:39:03.000 And you're right, our generation has grown very weary of these endless wars.

00:39:07.000 And by the way, they have not just cost us a tremendous amount in treasure.

00:39:12.000 They have not cost us just amount.

00:39:14.000 And the most precious thing we have is the blood of our bravest patriots who wear the uniform.

00:39:19.000 It has also caused America to lose focus. 0.80

00:39:21.000 You know, while China has been building islands and skyscrapers and aircraft carriers and artificial intelligence and quantum computing capabilities, we've been out trying to build democracies with blood and sand and Arab militias together. 0.89

00:39:40.000 And it has been like trading the same villages back and forth in Afghanistan for 19 years, hoping that somehow that's going to result in a more stable country. 0.85

00:39:52.000 Afghanistan is not a stable country.

00:39:54.000 And you know what?

00:39:55.000 Those neocons who think that like we can just go to wherever Istan and set up America have too low of a view of what America is.

00:40:05.000 You know, this is not just a place or an idea or even a constitution.

00:40:09.000 We are a culture.

00:40:10.000 We are a people.

00:40:11.000 I think we are the most special country that has ever existed in all of human history.

00:40:16.000 And I don't much feel like apologizing for it.

00:40:19.000 And Americanism is not just something we can export willy-nilly.

00:40:24.000 You know, if people want freedom like Americans did, they're going to have to fight for it and die for it and bleed for it.

00:40:31.000 They're going to have to lose some of their fellow countrymen over it.

00:40:33.000 And they're going to have to tell stories about those heroes for generations so that no one can ever take that special freedom away.

00:40:41.000 And there's a parallel to what we see going on in America, Charlie, because the folks who do want to take America away, that's exactly what they're targeting.

00:40:49.000 They're targeting our heroes and those who fought and those who engaged in the spirit of revolution that created an American identity.

00:40:55.000 And so, look, I think we should always be the friend of freedom around the world. 0.64

00:41:00.000 I think the biggest threat to freedom is not like Russia.

00:41:03.000 I mean, it's China, right? 0.96

00:41:04.000 I mean, these boomers are trying to tell us that like we have to chase, wander around in the deserts of the Middle East and we have to go post up on Russia. 0.80

00:41:11.000 Russia's two biggest exports are oil and models. 0.91

00:41:15.000 And America has plenty of both.

00:41:18.000 Look around your house.

00:41:19.000 How much stuff was made in Russia?

00:41:21.000 Like not a whole lot of it, right? 0.93

00:41:22.000 It was made in China. 0.99

00:41:23.000 And I think that that's why positioning away from the trillions of dollars lost in these endless wars, the countless lives, precious lives that we've lost in the Middle East, transitioning away from that to a focused, determined effort to beat China for the 21st century, that is what ensures America's continued greatness for generations to come. 0.98

00:41:47.000 Well, Matt, I think you're articulating where the Republican Party needs to go in the future.

00:41:50.000 And President Trump has just opened up the space for this conversation.

00:41:53.000 And quite honestly, we're about a month from election day.

00:41:57.000 It's hard to say, but there will be a time, and President Trump has said it, where he won't be president.

00:42:02.000 And there will be an ideological vacuum.

00:42:05.000 Some say it might be a civil war in the Republican Party where the corporate types are going to try to take over again.

00:42:10.000 And they're going to try to tell us another six countries we have to invade. 0.64

00:42:13.000 They're going to try to tell us that we have to keep the social media tech oligarchs permanently powerful.

00:42:18.000 They're going to try to tell us to stop talking about the issues of life and social conservative values.

00:42:25.000 They're going to try to tell us that we need to have open borders.

00:42:27.000 And I think you are leading the charge also on the political corruption angle.

00:42:32.000 So, Matt, the final question I have here is, can you just give us some insight into the election?

00:42:36.000 You represent Florida.

00:42:37.000 I'm also a Florida resident.

00:42:39.000 I came to Florida for a reason.

00:42:40.000 0% income tax, a great governor, people like you that love their country.

00:42:45.000 Is Trump going to win Florida?

00:42:46.000 Is Trump going to win the presidency?

00:42:47.000 What are you seeing?

00:42:48.000 What are you hearing?

00:42:49.000 Give us your insight.

00:42:51.000 The president's looking real good in Florida.

00:42:53.000 Charlie, about 1,100 people every day move to our state.

00:42:57.000 We're real glad you're one of them.

00:42:58.000 We're proud to count you a fellow Florida man, if you will.

00:43:02.000 That's right.

00:43:02.000 But that's not by accident.

00:43:04.000 It's because in Florida, we've essentially had one party rule for a generation in our government.

00:43:09.000 From Jeb Bush's time till now, there hasn't been a Democrat governor.

00:43:13.000 There hasn't been a Democrat majority in either House.

00:43:16.000 And so it's a perfect experiment to show what happens when you cut taxes, have a strong education system, the right-sized environmental regulations.

00:43:24.000 People actually want to be there and they want to bring their ideas and their capital and their love for our country.

00:43:30.000 And so I think that that immigration into Florida for people who want to see that type of worldview play out in their government has helped the president.

00:43:41.000 I actually predict, you know, the president won Florida by about 130,000 votes in 2016.

00:43:45.000 I think he will win Florida by more than that now.

00:43:48.000 Another county to watch on election night, Miami-Dade County. 0.97

00:43:52.000 Usually this is a huge reservoir of votes for Democrats, but what we're starting to see is that these Hispanics, many of whom are not more than a generation or two removed from like real socialism, not like hacky sack, drum circle socialism, but like no bread and no medicine socialism in the old country. 0.79

00:44:10.000 They're not signing up for the Biden-Harris woketopia. 0.94

00:44:14.000 They're not signing up for the policies of Portland and San Francisco to be metastasized around the country.

00:44:20.000 President Trump will do better with Hispanics, I think, than any Republican even since George W. Bush.

00:44:28.000 George W. Bush did very well with Hispanics.

00:44:30.000 I think Trump could do even better. 0.99

00:44:32.000 And I think it's because they're voting against the woketopia. 0.98

00:44:36.000 I think that is very well put. 0.94

00:44:37.000 And boy, do we need to win Florida.

00:44:40.000 The book is Firebrand.

00:44:41.000 Everyone, pick up a copy.

00:44:42.000 Matt is one of the good guys.

00:44:43.000 I don't say that very often.

00:44:45.000 We talk about all the things that we're against on our show very much, and we talk about things that we're for, but it's good to see someone fighting for the right things, not taking the corporate money, not taking the lobbyist money.

00:44:54.000 And if everyone's listening to this, they should just take a pause and say, why is my congressman taking money from lobbyists?

00:45:00.000 That's a good question to ask them.

00:45:02.000 And use Matt Gates as the example that they don't have to.

00:45:06.000 Ending the wars, holding these tech giants accountable, believing in our country, defending the American history and culture, as you mentioned.

00:45:16.000 And I think articulating a vision for the party.

00:45:18.000 Very well put, Matt.

00:45:19.000 Firebrand, check it out right now.

00:45:22.000 Let's make it a bestseller.

00:45:23.000 Thanks so much, Matt, for joining.

00:45:25.000 Thank you, Charlie.

00:45:26.000 See you soon.

00:45:29.000 What a great conversation that was with Matt Gates.

00:45:32.000 Please email us your questions: freedom at charliekirk.com, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:45:36.000 Get involved with Turning Point USA, where we play offense with a sense of urgency to win America's Culture War at tpusa.com, tpusa.com.

00:45:46.000 Chip in some money if you can, or get involved.

00:45:49.000 Start a chapter, attend an event.

00:45:51.000 The Student Action Summit applications are open.

00:45:53.000 So go to tpusa.com/slash SAS.

00:45:57.000 That is tpusa.com/slash SAS.

00:46:01.000 Please consider supporting us at charliekirk.com/slash support and chip in some money if you can.

00:46:07.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:46:09.000 God bless.

The Charlie Kirk Show - September 30, 2020

Congressman Matt Gaetz vs. The DC Cartel

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