The Charlie Kirk Show - Day One of Donald Trump's Next Admin ft. Vivek Ramaswamy

00:00:00.000 Hey everybody, thanks to the Charlie Kirk Show.

00:00:01.000 Vivek Ramaswamy joins the program.

00:00:03.000 We talk about what can President Trump really do on day one.

00:00:06.000 What executive orders can he sign?

00:00:07.000 What action, action, action can he take?

00:00:10.000 That and so much more.

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00:00:35.000 Buckle up everybody.

00:00:36.000 Here we go.

00:00:37.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:39.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

00:00:41.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

00:00:44.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:00:47.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:00:48.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:00:49.000 His spirit, his love of this country.

00:00:51.000 He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.

00:00:58.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

00:01:07.000 That's why we are here.

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00:01:36.000 So you have two kids, too?

00:01:37.000 I got two as well, yeah.

00:01:38.000 Did you ever have two under two?

00:01:40.000 We had, no, we had two under three.

00:01:42.000 See, I'm in the two under two club.

00:01:43.000 Anybody else?

00:01:44.000 Yeah.

00:01:44.000 Lifted, yeah.

00:01:45.000 That is, I guess you get extra points in the afterlife for that one.

00:01:49.000 I think you do.

00:01:50.000 So, Vivek, you're awesome.

00:01:52.000 There's so much to discuss and talk about.

00:01:54.000 First, let's talk about post-running for president.

00:01:57.000 You kind of took a moment to reflect and kind of breathe a little bit.

00:02:00.000 Is that fair to say?

00:02:01.000 Yeah, about five months.

00:02:02.000 What was that like?

00:02:03.000 You know, I think I have, I needed some space to be able to get clarity from the experience.

00:02:09.000 And it was, you know, I think one of the things that I learned is that, look, it's going to require two things to save this country.

00:02:16.000 It's got to be somebody who's willing to fight, but also somebody who remembers what they're fighting for.

00:02:21.000 And those two things are sometimes in tension with each other.

00:02:25.000 You got to be strong enough to protect your kindness.

00:02:28.000 That's the saying in our family.

00:02:30.000 It's the way we raise our sons as well.

00:02:32.000 And one of the things I reflect on in the presidential race is you have a lot of people, even some of the competitors, who might be very kind people but aren't maybe ready for the fight.

00:02:41.000 I was ready for the fight, but I also think that one of the things that I would have done and would have advised myself to do a better job of is at times also slow down and let people know why you're actually in this and what you're fighting for.

00:02:54.000 Do you think you could have done a better job of that?

00:02:56.000 Maybe, yeah, I think so.

00:02:57.000 I think part of what happens in the first debate, one of the things that shocked me was, I'm on that stage as a first-time politician, presidential candidate, and I think we're going to talk about a bunch of policy stuff, and then I start getting Getting mud right out of the gate.

00:03:16.000 They had oppo files on you.

00:03:18.000 It was interesting.

00:03:18.000 It was so fascinating.

00:03:19.000 And so that got me into fighter mode.

00:03:21.000 And I had fun with it.

00:03:22.000 And, you know, some of you all in the room may have enjoyed watching some of those debates.

00:03:25.000 And I wouldn't do it differently on the debate stage, because that's what that's made for.

00:03:30.000 But I think that part of the way we're going to save this country is also remind everybody what we're fighting for.

00:03:37.000 And I think that that's something that, were I to do this again, I think it would be something that's even more important to me next time around.

00:03:43.000 I've always liked you personally, but when Vivek, you know this, I say this openly, when you first started running for president, I was a skeptic.

00:03:50.000 Yeah, a big skeptic.

00:03:51.000 Yeah.

00:03:51.000 I mean, you could talk about that phone call, right?

00:03:53.000 And I think I was nice about it, though.

00:03:54.000 Charlie was just like, what the hell are you doing?

00:03:55.000 Yeah.

00:03:57.000 I was like, this makes no sense.

00:03:59.000 But you won me over.

00:04:01.000 And obviously I'm a Trump guy, you know that.

00:04:03.000 But I think you could be president one day, and I think you have the skill set, and I think you'd be a great president.

00:04:07.000 I really believe that.

00:04:09.000 And I don't say that lightly, you know that.

00:04:13.000 And I'll tell you what, I mean, I saw this amazing growth, and I mean that in the best possible way, but when you went on stage and you called out Rana to her face, I was like, he's my man.

00:04:24.000 I was like, that's different.

00:04:26.000 That's like Trump 2016 territory, right?

00:04:29.000 When you all of a sudden said, it's not the great replacement theory, but the great replacement reality, I said, I have not heard a politician with that kind of courage and conviction.

00:04:38.000 And not to mention all sorts of other different things.

00:04:41.000 I could see it was genuine and from the heart.

00:04:43.000 And you texted me after you're like, yeah, gloves are off.

00:04:45.000 Like, I just don't care.

00:04:46.000 Yeah.

00:04:47.000 And I know that you did not win the primary this time, but I think you really won the hearts and minds of millions of people that I mean, if we're honest, if Trump wins in November, God willing, we're all working towards that end.

00:04:58.000 There will be almost an immediate question of like, what comes next?

00:05:01.000 Right.

00:05:02.000 And I'm sure you're thinking about what to do after that.

00:05:05.000 But can you talk about the campaign broadly and general?

00:05:08.000 Did you grow in any of your beliefs?

00:05:10.000 I hate that word, evolve, because it's such a Clintonian verb.

00:05:13.000 I evolved!

00:05:15.000 But did you grow in any of your beliefs?

00:05:16.000 Did you see things on the trail that might have further radicalized you in certain opinions or changed your views?

00:05:22.000 Because running for president, if you're an honest person, not just like a weird robot like Pete Buttigieg, should actually clarify your thinking.

00:05:29.000 It does.

00:05:30.000 I think one of the areas, so this was an example of an issue that was not a core issue for me at the time I started my campaign, I will admit, but became a core issue by the end, was the fentanyl crisis in this country.

00:05:42.000 So I met parents, and by the end of it, we made it, by the time we visited any state, I would meet multiple parents who had lost their kids to fentanyl overdoses.

00:05:50.000 And they call them overdoses, but they're not really overdoses, it's poisoning, because if you put in a Big Mac, they wouldn't call that an overdose, they would call that bioterrorism.

00:05:57.000 And it's mistaken, meaning they're taking a different substance.

00:05:59.000 Absolutely.

00:06:00.000 As a party drug.

00:06:01.000 They're not heroin addicts.

00:06:02.000 No, absolutely.

00:06:03.000 In many cases these are people who did not sign up to the death sentence that they received.

00:06:08.000 And so then that happened over the course of the campaign where there was the other set of issues were also at the start of the campaign I wasn't as focused on, which was U.S.

00:06:14.000 foreign policy issues.

00:06:16.000 I opened up with a domestic policy vision for this country.

00:06:19.000 And last year was a year where we really separated Who was on which side of the Republican Party, and who was on which side of this country?

00:06:27.000 And to me, those two issues converged.

00:06:29.000 To say that our own citizens are suffering of, what, upwards of 80,000 deaths of an illegal chemical created from parts that are provided by synthetic raw materials to the Mexican drug cartels, and yet we're not doing a damn thing about it.

00:06:41.000 And yet, at the other side of the world, we're forking over $200 billion to protect somebody else's border, while ours remains as porous as ever.

00:06:49.000 Yeah, that did.

00:06:50.000 It wasn't a different belief, but it was an emphasis to say this is a dereliction of duty of the Republican Party.

00:06:55.000 This is an abdication of duty to our own citizens.

00:06:59.000 And coming out of last year, I think I emerged as less of a partisan than when I began.

00:07:06.000 I think I was more inclined to be a partisan... I was never a traditional Republican, but I think of myself as Republican versus Democrat.

00:07:14.000 By the time I came out of it, I became convinced that's not really the right dividing line in our country.

00:07:21.000 And it gave me a...

00:07:23.000 Passion for defining—and I have to admit, Charlie, it's maybe a challenge to say this—I don't think we have yet cleanly defined the future of what America First actually is and is going to be.

00:07:36.000 And so that's something that I consider an important unfilled role, and I'm going to hopefully play some part in helping define what this movement actually stands for, because that's the direction of the future, but we haven't really pinned it down, and I think we need to in order to succeed.

00:07:49.000 So, you were attacked a lot.

00:07:52.000 Yeah.

00:07:53.000 And most attacks don't bother me.

00:07:56.000 Personally, or when you attack my friends and your friend. 1.00

00:07:59.000 The attack that really bothered me is when people called you stupid. 0.99

00:08:02.000 Like, no, because you can call Vivek a lot of things, right? 1.00

00:08:04.000 Stupid is definitely, you're like, you're stupid if you're called, like, he's legitimately very brilliant, started a big company, graduated like first year class of every college you ever went to, right? 1.00

00:08:13.000 What college did you go to? 1.00

00:08:14.000 I mean, I don't even know where you went to yet.

00:08:15.000 I mean, a school in Boston.

00:08:16.000 Today I went to Harvard, but.

00:08:17.000 See, a school in Boston.

00:08:18.000 Not the same.

00:08:19.000 I didn't even know that.

00:08:19.000 Not the same place, not the same place it was.

00:08:21.000 I went to a school in Boston.

00:08:24.000 I hate it when people did that.

00:08:26.000 I know! 1.00

00:08:26.000 It's so stupid! 1.00

00:08:27.000 Just own it! 1.00

00:08:28.000 Just wear the Harvard pin!

00:08:29.000 I actually had no idea you went to Harvard.

00:08:30.000 I mean that.

00:08:30.000 I wasn't trying to trip you.

00:08:32.000 But no, you're ridiculously smart.

00:08:34.000 But I'm getting somewhere with this.

00:08:36.000 All of a sudden, you started to take and articulate heterodox opinions on foreign policy.

00:08:41.000 Yes. 1.00

00:08:42.000 And the attacks against you was not that you're wrong, but Vivek is dumb. 0.93

00:08:48.000 And I was like, okay, now I'm really upset because where are we as a conservative movement, where people that I really respect and some I don't respect, we're launching those salvos at. 0.96

00:08:58.000 You remember this?

00:08:59.000 It was like September, October-ish.

00:09:01.000 Am I getting that right?

00:09:01.000 Yeah, it's about right.

00:09:02.000 Where you were public enemy number one, especially post-October 7th, even though you were very morally clear on it.

00:09:07.000 Can you walk us through that?

00:09:08.000 What did you learn during that when you were the recipient of a lot of friendly fire?

00:09:13.000 And instead of going after your positions, they questioned your intelligence.

00:09:17.000 Yeah, so what I learned, first of all, is foreign policy has been the third rail for a lot of the Guardian uniparty establishment, pervading both parties.

00:09:26.000 And I didn't realize that's what I was walking into, because I treated that the same way as I was treating any other issue, which is candidly stating what I actually believed.

00:09:32.000 You might think it's the transgender debate, you might think it's the race relations debate, even the climate debate.

00:09:38.000 And the reality is those can be third rails in certain types of university or left-of-center environments.

00:09:44.000 But in many ways, what I saw happen in the Republican Party was the use of those issues, where you actually quietly, everyone basically agrees, as a smokescreen to actually avoid touching the real third rail, which is, where are you on the use of American resources to either protect our own citizens or to increased risk for our own citizens and the rubber really

00:10:02.000 hit the road on that last year particularly with ukraine

00:10:05.000 so the time the presidential debates are not in the debates but the race began

00:10:10.000 i think i was the only person who was crystal clear that i was dead set

00:10:14.000 against forking over more money to ukraine which was outside the overton

00:10:18.000 window at that particular was the only one let's be very i mean

00:10:21.000 I mean, Tucker was really at the front end of this, but I'm a candidate.

00:10:24.000 And Trump is Trump.

00:10:25.000 So he exempted from that, basically.

00:10:27.000 But all the other candidates were more money to Ukraine, except DeSantis.

00:10:30.000 We'll get to him in a second, because it was so interesting, because he had your opinion for an afternoon.

00:10:35.000 And then it changed by the next day.

00:10:37.000 No, by breakfast he was like Zelensky as Churchill.

00:10:43.000 Hey everybody, Charlie Kirk here.

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00:11:38.000 Well, I think that also reflects part of the pressure in the Republican Party.

00:11:45.000 And this is another big lesson I learned.

00:11:48.000 And it's going to be a quandary if I was advising somebody to run for president or if I was

00:11:51.000 ever to do it again, how you're going to cross this impasse.

00:11:55.000 It's the impact of money in politics, actually.

00:11:58.000 I mean, the reality is I can't tell you the number of donors I lost over my position on Ukraine, which was deemed irresponsible.

00:12:04.000 Now, the window's shifted on that a little bit.

00:12:06.000 A lot of those same people now are more skeptical of aid on Ukraine.

00:12:09.000 And that's also one of the things I learned, is that when you're taking heterodox positions, Timing is actually everything, right?

00:12:18.000 You could have left-wing comedians, I don't know if it was Jon Stewart or whoever it is now, going back and reflecting on the fact that COVID obviously started in China.

00:12:25.000 It's easy to say that now, but there's no impact from actually adopting that position versus actually having adopted that position in the middle of the pandemic.

00:12:33.000 Same thing with respect to Ukraine.

00:12:34.000 We've already forked over $200 billion.

00:12:36.000 The outcome is going to be, it looks like, increasingly the same outcome as it would have been if we hadn't.

00:12:40.000 In fact, we'd be in a worse place geopolitically versus at least negotiating from a position of strength, which is what we should have done in the first April of the war before Boris Johnson flew over to solve his own problems by goading, of course, to goad them more into war.

00:12:53.000 If you had taken that position, then it actually could have changed the outcome.

00:12:56.000 So one of the things that I've learned, and the same thing with respect to, you watch, mark my words on this, even when the truth comes out years from now about the total set of facts of what really happened on January 6th, it's going to be long afterwards when there's no consequence from that recognition.

00:13:11.000 Saudi Arabia's involvement, 9-11, it's one of the things that I talked about in the campaign that breached a total third rail of American politics. 0.89

00:13:17.000 This is one step further than that, Charlie.

00:13:18.000 It's just so insane.

00:13:19.000 It's a hard fact, actually.

00:13:20.000 Why can't we talk about all the hijackers being Saudi and the financing? 0.94

00:13:24.000 Not even the hijackers.

00:13:25.000 This is one step further than that, Charlie.

00:13:27.000 This is declassified documents in 2021 and 2022 that said Omar al-Bayoumi, the 42-year-old

00:13:34.000 graduate student who received the hijackers at LAX airport, wasn't a graduate student

00:13:38.000 that randomly met them and became friends, but was a Saudi intelligence operative.

00:13:41.000 Does that mean that that should change U.S. policy?

00:13:42.000 policy towards Saudi Arabia now?

00:13:43.000 No, we've actually grown closer with Saudi Arabia.

00:13:46.000 But at least you got to see the facts for what they are.

00:13:48.000 Totally.

00:13:49.000 And so that was one of my lessons in the campaign as well, is when you're outside of the Overton window, one of the things you do is if you're at the bleeding edge of that, you pave the way for the people who come after you, but at the time you actually do it, That's when it matters most, and timing is everything in a way that you could say COVID started in a lab in China today, and you think of yourself as brave, but you're not really brave at all.

00:14:11.000 But you want to talk today about actually questioning the government's narrative on any of these other questions, you know, then you're actually outside the acceptable bounds of receiving donor funds.

00:14:19.000 Yeah, so help me understand this.

00:14:20.000 I mean, I raise a lot of money, but I'm not running for president, so they see the mission, and I think we have more agreement.

00:14:25.000 And I think some donors don't have to agree with everything I say, but when a presidential candidate, I think it is much more issue-set fitting, especially in a primary.

00:14:33.000 So help me understand this.

00:14:35.000 You're trying to say that your opinions on sending money to a foreign country was a deal-breaker.

00:14:40.000 It was an absolute deal.

00:14:41.000 But your opinions on very aggressive immigration policy, very clear on trans stuff, of all the strong opinions you could have, the one where donors said we don't want to send you money is because I believe a foreign country should not be given priority over the homeland?

00:14:56.000 Yes, I think that was a true third rail of American politics.

00:15:01.000 I think it also got under the skin of a lot of the media that serves as a gatekeeper for what the acceptable opinions are.

00:15:06.000 See, most people are not inherently leaders.

00:15:08.000 They don't form their own.

00:15:09.000 Those aren't actually closely held opinions, but they take their cues from the institutionalists who decide what direction that opinion does or doesn't go, and that too was a third rail for much of the media as well.

00:15:20.000 Now, I predict, Charlie, this landscape is changing.

00:15:23.000 So a few years from now, I am, for better or worse, in some ways it's too bad this will be the case, I think a lot of the views that I adopted will have been vindicated in retrospect.

00:15:35.000 I'll give you two of those.

00:15:37.000 I think we're already seeing that happening now in the current landscape.

00:15:37.000 One is Ukraine.

00:15:40.000 The real challenging third rail here, and I say this as somebody who is Actually, staunchly, I believe even more strongly pro-Israel than the standard Republican Party talking point position, was my view that I'm against passing the aid package that just whizzed right through without really much of a second question.

00:16:00.000 Which, by the way, doubled overnight, just so we're clear.

00:16:02.000 Yeah, it did.

00:16:02.000 It went from $13 billion to inexcusably nearly $30 billion, and no one asked the question as to why?

00:16:07.000 But here's my prediction of what we're actually going to see.

00:16:11.000 We're going to see not only leading voices in the United States questioning that decision, but we're already starting to see this leading voices in Israel for Israel's own national position questioning the wisdom of that as well.

00:16:22.000 Because part of what we're doing when we're supposedly sending over money to a foreign country is we're actually using it as a set of handcuffs to be able to dictate from here what they do or don't do.

00:16:33.000 So, to be clear, I am all in favor of Ukraine pursuing a Ukraine-first policy. 0.94

00:16:37.000 I'm not rooting for Ukraine to lose this war.

00:16:39.000 Far from it.

00:16:40.000 I just question the wisdom of the U.S.

00:16:42.000 escalating the scope of it by driving Russia further into China's hands and increasing the risk of World War III. 0.55

00:16:48.000 Similarly on Israel.

00:16:49.000 Israel has an absolute right to self-determination and national self-defense, and the job of the U.S. 0.73

00:16:55.000 should be to diplomatically stand for that principle.

00:16:58.000 But the irony is that by the U.S.

00:16:59.000 actually giving more money, the U.S.

00:17:01.000 then assumes implicit responsibility for what Israel does, which then puts Biden in the position for backseat quarterbacking what Israel's own government is supposed to do, which is worse for us, but also worse for Israel.

00:17:11.000 And so I think it takes... That's a nuanced position.

00:17:14.000 So that lends itself for other candidates on the debate stage to just falsely, and this is false, characterize me as, in this case, anti-Israel.

00:17:21.000 That's false.

00:17:22.000 In fact, it's more decidedly false than actually what I view as a more strongly pro-Israel position.

00:17:26.000 But when you're dealing with Super PAC-funded airwaves and 30-second clips that are distilled.

00:17:32.000 And here's the other thing I learned.

00:17:33.000 Most people don't actually watch the debates.

00:17:35.000 Most people watch the distillation or the description or read what actually happened.

00:17:41.000 And so these are some of the great learnings.

00:17:43.000 It's the gatekeepers of information that determine the public perceptions of not just a general election audience, but even a Republican primary electorate.

00:17:51.000 And those are valuable lessons.

00:17:53.000 Now, what one does with those lessons is another matter, but I think that with six months of reflection, those are some of my bigger, interesting, unexpected learnings from the race.

00:18:03.000 I mean, I'm very pro-Israel, as you guys know, and I have Israel envy. 1.00

00:18:07.000 Why do they have a border and we don't?

00:18:09.000 Well, we should learn from our allies.

00:18:11.000 Why is Israel allowed to deport foreigners that commit crimes?

00:18:15.000 Do you know right before October 7th in late September, there were a bunch of Etrians, 1.00

00:18:18.000 you know, the country of, I think it's Etria.

00:18:21.000 Eritrea.

00:18:22.000 I mispronounced it.

00:18:23.000 And they were in Israel on work visas.

00:18:24.000 There was like 50 of them.

00:18:26.000 And they committed like a bunch of crimes in Tel Aviv.

00:18:29.000 And they made a spectacle of it.

00:18:31.000 And the Israel government's like, yeah, we're deporting like every person from that country

00:18:34.000 who knew these people because we're not going to put up with foreigners committing crimes. 1.00

00:18:37.000 I think that's excellent.

00:18:38.000 I wish we did that and so but then I'm told I'm racist if we do that in America.

00:18:43.000 Why does Israel get to deport foreigners and we don't? 0.99

00:18:45.000 Yeah, of course you've got a lot of crazy people that will also call Israel some sort of oppressor for making that own decision.

00:18:51.000 And I reject that.

00:18:52.000 I totally reject that narrative altogether.

00:18:53.000 That's why, one of the reasons I love Israel is that they want to survive as a nation.

00:18:57.000 Yep, they're scrappy and hard-working.

00:18:59.000 And they have an identity, too.

00:19:01.000 They know who they are.

00:19:01.000 And they're proud of it.

00:19:02.000 And they have a history.

00:19:04.000 And we used to have those things.

00:19:06.000 Again, our identity is different than Israel's identity. 0.93

00:19:08.000 There is a religious, tribal identity, and that's fine.

00:19:11.000 Our identity is one that is rooted in values and one that is passed down in irrefutable divine truths, ethical monotheism, separation of powers.

00:19:21.000 But the point I'm getting is that I'm so pro-Israel that I actually want America to look more like Israel in some ways, not every way.

00:19:26.000 But what I can understand, though, is why in American dialogue or discourse the only agreed-upon position is it's okay to send money to those countries, but if we start acting like those countries, we're terrible.

00:19:38.000 Yeah, it's completely hypocritical and nonsensical, which would explain, frankly, the establishment in both major political parties for much of the last 35 years, which is at least the magnitude of my adult lifetime, which is part of what compelled me to enter politics.

00:19:51.000 I mean, I talked about one of the things that allowed me to adopt the positions that I have is the fact that I was able to self-finance and, you know, I didn't enjoy spending 33 million dollars.

00:20:01.000 You spent 33 million?

00:20:02.000 Maybe 31 or whatever the exact number was, but it was over 30.

00:20:06.000 It was over $30 million of my hard-earned money.

00:20:08.000 Can I interrupt you?

00:20:09.000 I think that's amazingly patriotic.

00:20:11.000 I think you deserve to be... Thank you.

00:20:12.000 I appreciate that.

00:20:16.000 I think it's disgusting when people will just spend more money on their self-pleasure.

00:20:20.000 What you did for $31 million is you legitimately opened up millions of people's eyes to an issue set they otherwise wouldn't have.

00:20:27.000 Young men in particular now have a new role model and icon in the conservative movement. 0.99

00:20:31.000 That's $31 million well-spent, a lot more than I don't know, a new boat in the Aegean or something stupid. 0.97

00:20:36.000 I'll give a lot of credit to my wife for this, actually, because she really doesn't care for things. 1.00

00:20:42.000 By the end of the campaign, I had never seen—she's very invested in what she does daily.

00:20:46.000 She's a throat surgeon. 1.00

00:20:47.000 She saves lives.

00:20:49.000 By the end of the campaign, or even midway through it, she didn't historically think of herself as a terribly political person.

00:20:55.000 But believed we were on a holy mission for this country and was all in on it for me that the inheritance we wanted—we had this conversation, right?

00:21:03.000 Because this is—it might as well go to us.

00:21:04.000 We can't spend it.

00:21:05.000 Is it going to go to our kids?

00:21:07.000 Okay, what's the inheritance we actually want to leave for our kids?

00:21:10.000 And the thing we decided is it's not a bunch of green pieces of paper.

00:21:13.000 Actually, you could argue that that's going to encumber them in a lot of ways.

00:21:17.000 I've seen a lot of people I've gone to school with in places like Harvard, as we talk about, who have in some ways been, have had that cross tied to their back, that albatross that they've borne.

00:21:27.000 It's green handcuffs.

00:21:28.000 It's green handcuffs in some ways, but debate that as it will.

00:21:30.000 The actual inheritance we do want to give our kids is the same country that allowed us to live the American dream that we did.

00:21:37.000 And so, that's the way we view it.

00:21:41.000 So let's talk about this election.

00:21:43.000 It should not be close.

00:21:46.000 All fact patterns.

00:21:47.000 I mean, the fact pattern is so unbelievable when you think about it.

00:21:52.000 The thing that disturbs me is the insistence of this current ruling class to hang on to power. 0.98

00:21:59.000 And you're kind of a class traitor. 0.98

00:22:00.000 You're very similar to Trump. 0.99

00:22:01.000 And I hope you guys understand. 1.00

00:22:02.000 Vivek is a class traitor. 1.00

00:22:04.000 JD Vance is a class traitor. 0.98

00:22:05.000 meaning that they made a choice to no longer be in the Aspen, Sun Valley, 0.67

00:22:10.000 Kenny Bunkport, Cape Cod circles. And they have money. JD Vance has money.

00:22:15.000 Favek has money. Trump has money. And if they would have adopted a

00:22:18.000 certain issue set, albeit even from center right circles, they would have

00:22:22.000 still been a loud and polite society. And so you've been around the ruling

00:22:25.000 class and you decided, I don't wanna be part of that anymore.

00:22:27.000 I wanna be with the people. I wanna save the country, which I think is amazing. So can you help me understand why

00:22:33.000 the current people that are in charge of the society are so

00:22:38.000 hell bent on ruining the country that they're tasked to steward?

00:22:42.000 Yeah, there's different kinds of them.

00:22:44.000 I think that's actually the first distinction to draw.

00:22:46.000 Different kinds of people in this ruling class, if we're to use that term.

00:22:51.000 I actually think one of the things I tried to do during the campaign is bring many of them with us, actually.

00:22:56.000 This is going to have to be both bottom-up and top-down.

00:22:58.000 And a lot of these people, what they needed was really liberation.

00:23:01.000 I can't tell you on how many different Signal or similar chat groups I am on with, like, anonymized initial-only names, but with some of the big names.

00:23:10.000 I know the names.

00:23:13.000 It's countless.

00:23:14.000 There's different overlapping groups, many of whom are unable to say in public what they will put into these private chats, and that needle is moving.

00:23:23.000 So I think that's a good thing in our direction.

00:23:24.000 So every time we see some sort of, you know, part of your first – it happens to me too – part of your first reaction when you see some next billionaire saying something that you were saying two years ago, Now thinking that they're anti-woke and suddenly discovered that DEI was poison for the country, your first reaction should not be as I am tempted for it to be to roll my eyes and be like, come on dude, what were you thinking?

00:23:44.000 Where were you, right?

00:23:45.000 And it should instead be...

00:23:47.000 Thank you for having the consciousness and open-mindedness to revise your prior opinions and now belatedly even still having still what may not seem like us to courage but in their circle still is courage to actually say it.

00:24:00.000 That's a trend that I see in this country I think is going to be a requirement if we're realistically talking about actually fixing the system within the boundaries that actually exist where that is part of the donor class that was part of the problem over the last year as I experienced it.

00:24:12.000 So I think the changes in that community that became one of the things that I felt that I was able to do and may be able to continue to do

00:24:18.000 that's actually important.

00:24:20.000 Now, I think that there's a separate strand to this of people who...

00:24:26.000 You know, there's of course people who are cynical and care to trample on other people

00:24:30.000 for the sake of the exercise of power and their own self-enrichment.

00:24:33.000 But I think the more interesting strand, and I think this is the more popular one,

00:24:36.000 in what I will call the managerial class.

00:24:38.000 I don't use the word elites.

00:24:40.000 I think that it's too broad because, you know, Elon Musk is an elite.

00:24:42.000 In some ways, I am an elite, right?

00:24:44.000 I don't think that that word includes creators and founders as much as it does people who

00:24:49.000 are bureaucrats sitting in corporate boards or three-letter government agencies.

00:24:54.000 I use the word the managerial class.

00:24:56.000 And the thing about the managerial class is the reason the deep state behaves the way

00:25:00.000 it does isn't because just they want to trample on your rights and view you as somebody to

00:25:06.000 be trampled over.

00:25:07.000 It's because they think of themselves as benevolent towards you.

00:25:11.000 That you can't decide for yourself how to address or whether to address climate change or racial inequity or whatever.

00:25:19.000 This is the stuff of the American Revolution, right?

00:25:21.000 This is why we fought a revolution in this country.

00:25:23.000 Because that was King George's view, too.

00:25:25.000 We are his subjects.

00:25:27.000 We are his children.

00:25:28.000 The reason he governs and does not guarantee liberty to the Americans in the colonies is because they couldn't be trusted to possibly self-govern.

00:25:37.000 And that brings us back to the moment we're in, Charlie.

00:25:39.000 Once you see it that way, it's actually far more dangerous, far more sinister.

00:25:44.000 It's a 1776 moment right now between the citizen and the managerial class.

00:25:50.000 And if the citizens can team up with the creators to overthrow the managerial class, that's what success in this country looks like.

00:25:59.000 Hey everybody, Charlie Kirk here.

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00:27:03.000 There's a phenomenal book by James Burnham, you've probably read it, called The Managerial Revolution.

00:27:07.000 Yeah, it's a game changer.

00:27:09.000 You guys should all read it.

00:27:09.000 Classic.

00:27:10.000 The PMC, the Professional Managerial Class.

00:27:12.000 And he diagnosed it, I think it was like 90s he wrote it, if I'm not mistaken, and he saw this coming.

00:27:16.000 He said, the death of America will be the growth of mid-level management, MLM.

00:27:22.000 And you can see this in corporate America, by the way, where everyone's a manager and no one really knows who does anything, and it's a really bad way to run an organization, a really bad way to run a company, and run a country.

00:27:36.000 The problem with the managerial class is that they're huge in number, they're seemingly permanent in position.

00:27:45.000 So, Vivek is president day one, and anything you say Trump can also do as president day one.

00:27:51.000 Yes, I hope he does.

00:27:51.000 Yeah, so lay it out either way.

00:27:53.000 What can be, from a policy standpoint, immediately done, without Congress?

00:27:57.000 Let's say Congress is deadlocked in a waste of time.

00:27:59.000 What can be done to... I love that, Provisor, because a lot of people are spinning their wheels on draft legislation right now.

00:27:59.000 Sure.

00:28:06.000 Waste of time.

00:28:08.000 But people need to understand this, because this is the traditional stuff of preparing for a transition, is draft bills.

00:28:14.000 My view, and I say this coming out of government— Waste of time.

00:28:16.000 This is the wrong place to focus.

00:28:18.000 What can you get done as President of the United States, period?

00:28:22.000 I'll sum it down to— A lot.

00:28:23.000 There's a lot.

00:28:24.000 I'll sum it down to two important things.

00:28:25.000 It's a tale of two mass deportations, okay?

00:28:27.000 One is actually sealing our own border and making sure that anybody who's in this country illegally is treated appropriately as an illegal in this country. 0.92

00:28:34.000 But that's the first of two.

00:28:37.000 The second mass deportation that I really care about is the mass deportation of federal bureaucrats out of Washington, D.C.

00:28:45.000 Right?

00:28:46.000 That is the mass deportation that we ought to begin on day one.

00:28:52.000 75% mass firing across the board, indiscriminate, send them home.

00:28:58.000 That would still arguably be too big.

00:29:00.000 What's left is probably still too big.

00:29:02.000 And you know I made progress when I sort of said this, the pushback I got from most people is what you'd expect, but Elon Musk calls me and says, no, no, that's not enough.

00:29:08.000 It's got to go further.

00:29:09.000 That's the kind of pushback I want.

00:29:09.000 I said, great.

00:29:11.000 But let's go with 75% across the board and then actually shut down the agencies that should not exist in the first place.

00:29:21.000 Can the president do that without Congress?

00:29:23.000 So the answer to this question, great questions, yes.

00:29:23.000 Yes.

00:29:26.000 First of all, you can't individually fire people.

00:29:28.000 So I can't say, I'm going to individually fire you, or see my friend Sandy Pensler here running for Senate in Michigan.

00:29:33.000 I can't fire you, okay, as an individual because there's these civil service protections.

00:29:38.000 But what I can do is mass indiscriminate firings because the civil service protections don't apply to mass firings.

00:29:45.000 Isn't there something, a section or something, what is that called, a title or something?

00:29:48.000 So they talk about this, they talk about this Schedule F.

00:29:52.000 That's what I mean, yeah.

00:29:53.000 Right, so the Schedule F expansion, that's the part that President Trump took in the late days, and that's what they're talking about starting in the beginning.

00:29:57.000 Do you like that or not so much?

00:29:58.000 I like it, but it's a step.

00:29:59.000 It's a small step in the right direction.

00:30:01.000 Okay, so you'd be even more firm.

00:30:02.000 Yeah, and just so people understand this, I'm glad we're talking about this.

00:30:05.000 Schedule F basically says, right now there's a tiny number of employees who are making policy.

00:30:10.000 The president can fire them, but that's a tiny fraction, a few thousand to four million.

00:30:14.000 So they took the smart step of saying, let's reclassify more of the federal employees from like a few thousand to tens of thousands.

00:30:21.000 Or maybe even 100,000 employees that are Schedule F that could be fireable.

00:30:25.000 I look at it the other way.

00:30:26.000 Use the provision of the law that says those are for individual firings.

00:30:31.000 Bring the chainsaw. 0.75

00:30:32.000 Don't bring the chisel in the first place.

00:30:34.000 Mass indiscriminate firings, they can't sue you because they can't say it's because of political discrimination or racial discrimination or disparate outcomes based on race or gender or sexual orientation.

00:30:43.000 That's what slows you up in the courts.

00:30:46.000 If it's literally, and people got mad when I said this, and I'm not saying I would do it this way, but if you literally said if your social security number ends in an odd number, you're out.

00:30:53.000 In an even number, you're in.

00:30:55.000 Nobody could sue you, right?

00:30:56.000 And actually, most of those agencies would work better.

00:30:59.000 So that's the way you get it as a large, indiscriminate firing.

00:31:02.000 So, can the President say the Department of Education is closed?

00:31:04.000 Yes.

00:31:06.000 I'll tell you why.

00:31:09.000 Tell me why, and then I'll tell you why I think that might get overturned.

00:31:12.000 I mean, you're getting the nerd out in me, but that's alright.

00:31:16.000 We can bring that out.

00:31:20.000 So there's certain unexpired provisions of a law called the Presidential Reorganization Act of 1977.

00:31:27.000 And that is a law—some provisions have expired, so people have missed it.

00:31:30.000 It was a Carter-era law.

00:31:32.000 It was a Carter-era law, but the portions that have expired were actually the ones that required congressional approval.

00:31:37.000 The unexpired portions say there are certain conditions under which the U.S.

00:31:41.000 president Can unilaterally carry out already permission that Congress has given to shut down agencies.

00:31:48.000 If it promotes economy, and what they mean by economy is economy within the administration of government, efficiency of operations in government, or eliminates redundant agencies, then the president already has the power to do it.

00:32:00.000 So I believe the Department of Education checks that box to the fullest.

00:32:03.000 You want to move the parts that actually administer workforce training? 0.86

00:32:05.000 Move it to the Department of Labor.

00:32:06.000 That's redundant.

00:32:07.000 The remainder?

00:32:08.000 Does that promote the economy to send $83 billion back to the states and to the people?

00:32:13.000 Absolutely it does.

00:32:14.000 Check that box.

00:32:14.000 So block-grant it.

00:32:15.000 Absolutely.

00:32:16.000 What you're saying is that Congress, you can still appropriate all this money, but Department of Education, you're done.

00:32:22.000 That's right.

00:32:26.000 Congress chartered the Department of Education, though.

00:32:29.000 So, there's a couple of things to say.

00:32:33.000 Actually, a lot of these agencies, it will surprise you Charlie, it will surprise me too, were actually never originally chartered by Congress in the first place.

00:32:40.000 So, just because they give you a financial appropriation... But the big ones are.

00:32:44.000 Energy, education...

00:32:45.000 I'll give you one that's actually easier to achieve on reorganizational grounds, but certainly hits a third rail for a lot of people.

00:32:52.000 EPA?

00:32:52.000 FBI.

00:32:53.000 Oh, I love that.

00:32:54.000 So the FBI— This is never by an act of Congress, right?

00:32:56.000 Yeah, never by an act of Congress.

00:32:59.000 35,000, 36,000 employees at the FBI.

00:33:01.000 More than half of them are back-office bureaucrats sitting in the—believe me, it's still called the J. Edgar Hoover Building.

00:33:07.000 Believe it or not, they're still honoring the man's legacy.

00:33:10.000 The remainder can be moved.

00:33:12.000 Say what you will about the agencies I'm about to name, whatever you may think of them.

00:33:15.000 Here's a plan for shutting down the FBI.

00:33:17.000 You can move them to the DEA, or to the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network at the U.S.

00:33:22.000 Treasury, or to a range to the Secret Service, to a range of other agencies, the U.S.

00:33:27.000 Marshals, which have actually been far more effective at fighting child sex trafficking rings and the fentanyl epidemic.

00:33:34.000 Then has been the agents at the FBI.

00:33:37.000 This isn't a radical plan.

00:33:38.000 This is just a reorganizational plan that guts the bureaucratic rot at its core.

00:33:44.000 And we'll say, fire whoever the current FBI director is.

00:33:47.000 I don't care.

00:33:47.000 Christopher Wray!

00:33:49.000 We'll get James Comey 2.0.

00:33:51.000 What do you think exactly happens?

00:33:52.000 You cut off one head of an eight-headed hydra, it grows right back, you want to solve the problem, you got it at its core.

00:33:59.000 And I think this is the question when we think about the future of America first, Charlie, is, you know, I'm not going to hold President Trump to the standard of believing and having to do everything that I've laid out, because he's got his agenda and he's unapologetic about it, and I'm going to do whatever I can to not only make sure he's successfully elected, but implements a lot of the things that he needs to do that are good for this country that are at the top of his list.

00:34:19.000 But these are the things that would be at the top of my list.

00:34:22.000 And I think we got the next four years where we got to make sure that we reclaim the direction of this country.

00:34:28.000 And then we've got the next 250 years of America First after that.

00:34:32.000 And I think that the next four years are a requirement to lay that foundation.

00:34:37.000 But you know what?

00:34:38.000 People call this vision extreme.

00:34:39.000 I call it a vision to returning to what our founding fathers set into motion.

00:34:44.000 And you know what?

00:34:44.000 That's not extreme to me.

00:34:45.000 That's a reversion to what set this country into motion in the first place.

00:34:49.000 Amen.

00:34:50.000 And that really is what is on the ballot, is what form of government do we want?

00:34:54.000 Yes.

00:34:55.000 Which is an oligarchy or a constitutional republic?

00:34:57.000 Are you a citizen or are you a subject?

00:35:00.000 That's what's on the ballot this year.

00:35:01.000 If you're a subject, you know who you vote for.

00:35:04.000 Subject of the regime that views you as somebody they need to benevolently take care of.

00:35:09.000 If you are a citizen that deserves to hold your elected leaders accountable, if you believe the people we elect to run the government should be the ones who run the government, and that they owe their sole moral duty to you, the citizens of this country and not another one, Then there is one answer for how you vote this November, and that's to put Donald Trump back in the White House so we at least change the direction of this country and lay the foundation for an America First movement that will outlive Donald Trump, that will outlive me, that will outlive you, that didn't start in 2016, it started in 1776, but put back the man who revived it in the 21st century back into the White House.

00:35:46.000 Very quickly, then I gotta get you on stage.

00:35:48.000 They're gonna give a yank here.

00:35:49.000 Do you think Biden's gonna make it?

00:35:52.000 You think they're going to pull him?

00:35:55.000 I said this on the Republican debate stage last year, and I think that it becomes less likely by the day, you've got to admit, but I still think that there's a very good chance.

00:36:03.000 They pull him.

00:36:03.000 Yeah, and I'll tell you when.

00:36:05.000 So the June 27th debate is the earliest ever debate in recorded, televised U.S.

00:36:10.000 presidential history.

00:36:13.000 And the reason why is that this is the final audition before the DNC.

00:36:17.000 It's the first ever known debate before the nominating convention of either political party.

00:36:23.000 So they've set themselves up for a win-win, which is, if Biden does really well, he exceeds expectations.

00:36:29.000 Even if he passes as a coherent human being, he will have exceeded expectations, and that could reset the race. 0.81

00:36:35.000 But if, as I expect, he doesn't, then that gives them ample time to swap in somebody, which is actually the best scenario of all, because think about this, when you're in the honeymoon phase, then you don't have the time for scrutiny.

00:36:47.000 So if they're swapping somebody in July or August, maybe a Michelle Obama, who knows who it is?

00:36:51.000 Gretchen Whitmer.

00:36:52.000 Well, here in Michigan, whatever it is, you initially get the honeymoon phase, but without actually the time for the scrutiny, and I believe that's part of what the backup plan might actually look like.

00:37:03.000 Think about Gretchen Whitmer, though. 0.88

00:37:05.000 She won this state.

00:37:07.000 I know it's all fraudulent, but she's got a blue wall cachet.

00:37:11.000 Fresh face.

00:37:12.000 Not for you guys.

00:37:14.000 But yeah, she's a darling of the Democrat Party. 1.00

00:37:17.000 Yeah, and I think that here's what I would say in closing is, I worry, I don't mean to be, I don't mean to close on a dark note, but I believe in truth.

00:37:24.000 And so I'm going to speak what I believe is a hard truth right now.

00:37:27.000 I think there's a lot of optimism, including in our own party, including in the ranks of President Trump and the campaign team for good reason about the poll numbers and everything else.

00:37:36.000 I think we are at risk of the same thing that happened in 2022, which is a red wave that never comes. 0.89

00:37:43.000 And I think complacency right now is not an option.

00:37:46.000 And the way we're going to do this isn't just by pinning it against Biden or worrying it's Whitmer or Obama or whoever else.

00:37:54.000 It's by actually stepping up.

00:37:55.000 This is what I'll talk about on stage.

00:37:58.000 Stepping up and actually defining who we are and what we actually stand for.

00:38:03.000 And that's something that no matter who they put up or what tricks they pull, they're not going to be able to take that away from us.

00:38:09.000 Use that as our starting point.

00:38:11.000 Fight to the end.

00:38:12.000 Play not with kid gloves, but with gloves off.

00:38:15.000 Compete, as they say.

00:38:16.000 Either win or leave blood on the court.

00:38:17.000 We're not leaving blood on the court.

00:38:18.000 We're winning this time.

00:38:19.000 That's what it's going to take without complacency.

00:38:21.000 We've got to get Vivek on stage.

00:38:22.000 Give it up for him, everybody.

00:38:22.000 Thanks, man.

00:38:23.000 Thank you, man.

00:38:25.000 Thanks so much for listening everybody.

00:38:27.000 Email us as always freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:38:29.000 Thanks so much for listening and God bless.

The Charlie Kirk Show - June 21, 2024

Day One of Donald Trump's Next Admin ft. Vivek Ramaswamy

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