The Charlie Kirk Show - October 21, 2025


Dear Dems: This Is Exactly What Democracy Looks Like


Episode Stats


Length

44 minutes

Words per minute

173.83516

Word count

7,698

Sentence count

581

Harmful content

Toxicity

5

sentences flagged

Hate speech

28

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode, Mikey McCoy and Andrew Colvett talk about what democracy looks like and why it s time to stop sending our kids to college. They also talk about the deportation of millions of illegal immigrants, and how this is exactly how democracy works.

Transcript

Transcripts from "The Charlie Kirk Show" are sourced from the Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool. Explore them interactively here.
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:03.000 My name is Charlie Kirk.
00:00:05.000 I run the largest pro-American student organization in the country fighting for the future of our republic.
00:00:11.000 My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth.
00:00:14.000 If the most important thing for you is just feeling good, you're going to end up miserable.
00:00:19.000 But if the most important thing is doing good, you'll end up purposeful.
00:00:24.000 College is a scam, everybody.
00:00:26.000 You got to stop sending your kids to college.
00:00:27.000 You should get married as young as possible and have as many kids as possible.
00:00:31.000 Go start a Turning Point USA college chapter.
00:00:33.000 Go start a Turning Point USA High School chapter.
00:00:35.000 Go find out how your church can get involved.
00:00:37.000 Sign up and become an activist.
00:00:39.000 I gave my life to the Lord in fifth grade.
00:00:41.000 Most important decision I ever made in my life.
00:00:43.000 And I encourage you to do the same.
00:00:45.000 Here I am.
00:00:46.000 Lord, use me.
00:00:48.000 Buckle up, everybody.
00:00:49.000 Here we go.
00:00:56.000 The Charlie Kirk Show is proudly sponsored by Preserve Gold, the leading gold and silver experts and the only precious metals company I recommend to my family, friends, and viewers.
00:01:09.000 All right, welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show.
00:01:10.000 Andrew Colvett here, executive producer of this fine show.
00:01:14.000 Honored to be with you.
00:01:15.000 I'm joined by Mikey McCoy.
00:01:17.000 Thank you for having me.
00:01:17.000 Thank you for watching.
00:01:19.000 And you're like our fill-in Blake.
00:01:21.000 Yeah, I'm the Blake filler.
00:01:22.000 Maybe you're like, are you the new Blake?
00:01:24.000 We've got to keep him on his toes.
00:01:26.000 I'm Blake with more hair.
00:01:28.000 Oh, ouch.
00:01:29.000 Blake would let me say it.
00:01:31.000 It would be weird if Blake had hair, is what I realized.
00:01:34.000 It would be weird.
00:01:34.000 At this point, it would be Blake.
00:01:36.000 I am just so happy to have this day because, you know, President Trump is putting up win after win.
00:01:45.000 And, you know, it just occurs to me that this is exactly what democracy looks like.
00:01:52.000 So if you guys could just play that clip, please.
00:01:55.000 This is what democracy looks like.
00:02:04.000 Yes, I totally agree.
00:02:06.000 This is what democracy looks like.
00:02:10.000 And with that, let's play 151.
00:02:13.000 Deportation numbers hitting record highs since President Trump's return to office.
00:02:17.000 His administration booning more than 515,000 illegal migrants so far.
00:02:23.000 1.6 million illegals have left the country on their own, with immigration agents arresting 485,000, excuse me.
00:02:31.000 DHS saying that Trump is set to shatter the U.S. deportation record by the end of 2025.
00:02:36.000 And what is that?
00:02:38.000 This is what democracy looks like.
00:02:39.000 Can we get it again?
00:02:40.000 I just straightened myself.
00:02:41.000 This is what democracy looks like.
00:02:43.000 Yes.
00:02:47.000 This is what democracy looks like.
00:02:49.000 Yeah.
00:02:49.000 Record deportations, gentlemen.
00:02:51.000 That is exactly right, because what democracy looks like.
00:02:55.000 This is what democracy looks like.
00:02:57.000 And, you know, I will say that this was perfectly on cue with what Charlie often talked about.
00:03:03.000 He was very passionate about this issue.
00:03:05.000 So let's put it in Charlie's own words, cut 156. 1.00
00:03:08.000 You should not have to compete against a foreigner for your job. 0.90
00:03:11.000 American college graduates should come first.
00:03:15.000 And that starts with President Donald Trump, and this will affect everybody in this room, regardless of age, it is time for the largest deportation effort this country has ever seen.
00:03:28.000 If you are here illegally, you are deported from the United States of America.
00:03:33.000 Period. 0.99
00:03:34.000 No amnesty.
00:03:35.000 Repeat after me, no amnesty.
00:03:39.000 Period.
00:03:39.000 End of story.
00:03:40.000 We will not put up with any exceptions, any carve-outs, any loopholes, any exceptions, any asterisks, any iotas.
00:03:49.000 I don't care if it's 10 years or 15 years.
00:03:51.000 We voted for mass deportations.
00:03:53.000 We did not vote for mass amnesty.
00:03:55.000 And we expect our leaders to deliver it and bring back our country to a place of citizenship and Americans being put first.
00:04:03.000 I mean, I just love watching the way.
00:04:05.000 He was so firm and clear, and he was really channeling the base energy.
00:04:09.000 This is what democracy looks like, Mikey McCoy.
00:04:12.000 Now, Charlie hated the word democracy, actually.
00:04:16.000 He loved, well, he preferred talking about America as a constitutional republic, which is exactly what it is.
00:04:21.000 That's what it is.
00:04:22.000 And we have a Republic of States.
00:04:25.000 They agreed to be part of a union, right?
00:04:28.000 The states made America when they agreed to join together into the United States of America.
00:04:34.000 And we have this constitution that governs the way the country works.
00:04:39.000 And the Democrats love to say that we are anti-constitutional, that we're just empowering Trump and egging him on to do everything he wants.
00:04:46.000 And we better watch it because when a Democrat's in power, that is not what's happening here.
00:04:50.000 That is not what's happening here.
00:04:52.000 What we have is, now you see this from the Ninth Circus Court of Appeals, as it's often referred to, that is over the Western United States.
00:04:59.000 It is not traditionally a conservative court.
00:05:02.000 Now, it was a split decision, but they still did an emergency stay, a motion that says, yes, President Trump can deploy the National Guard in Portland, right?
00:05:13.000 Because they said that, yes, he's within his authority to do so, which means the same thing is probably going to hold true in Chicago and other places.
00:05:23.000 And again, this is what the Democratic process in a Constitutional Republic looks like.
00:05:27.000 He's hemmed in on, he has bounds to his power, but it would not be against the rules for him to declare the Insurrection Act.
00:05:36.000 He's even been teasing that he might declare the Insurrection Act.
00:05:39.000 And actually, Democrats might be surprised to understand that 33%, about one-third of presidents have declared the Insurrection Act in the United States.
00:05:50.000 If Democrats really were pro-democracy, they would realize and acknowledge that President Trump was elected by the Electoral College and the popular vote for, as Charlie said, not mass amnesty, but mass deportations.
00:06:04.000 So he is fulfilling the mandate that was given to him by voters to deport people.
00:06:10.000 And border crossings are 99.9% down, which is a huge warning.
00:06:15.000 We voted for this.
00:06:16.000 We voted for this.
00:06:18.000 He is more pro-democracy than they are.
00:06:20.000 And if they're going to go around and chant no kings, they don't understand that he is fulfilling the mandate that the voters placed him to do so in.
00:06:29.000 And so this is something that I'm cheering on.
00:06:31.000 And that speech that Charlie gave was from our Student Action Summit, and that room was all full of students.
00:06:37.000 Yeah. 1.00
00:06:37.000 And so he sees these students that are graduating colleges with degrees and tons of debt to go get jobs that don't exist because illegal immigrants are taking it. 1.00
00:06:46.000 Well, get this. 1.00
00:06:46.000 So there's a new story breaking this morning that Amazon is planning over the course of the next, let's say, however many years, let's say the next two, three, maybe four or five years, but it's happening, imminent, brace for impact. 1.00
00:06:59.000 They're going to engage in a mass automation process at their shipping facilities.
00:07:07.000 This means that 600,000 Americans are about to get laid off in the next couple of years.
00:07:11.000 600,000 from Amazon alone.
00:07:13.000 You're going to see this across the board.
00:07:15.000 Now, this is not Trump's fault.
00:07:16.000 This is not Joe Biden's fault, to be perfectly honest.
00:07:20.000 It is a new move of technology that is going to displace workers.
00:07:25.000 And this plays into the immigration debate because we do not need to be importing tens of millions of foreigners that are only going to increase job pressures, especially on working class Americans. 0.53
00:07:36.000 And you're going to see this at farms.
00:07:38.000 You're going to see this at factories.
00:07:39.000 Robotics is coming.
00:07:41.000 And we need to get a handle on making sure we're not letting in cheap, unskilled labor into this country for jobs that are no longer going to exist in a couple of years.
00:07:50.000 Yeah, yeah. 0.98
00:07:51.000 Between the labor market shrinking, illegal immigrants coming and taking jobs, H-1Bs, and then the technology boom, which is in, yeah, a lot of people will disagree with me on the H-1B. 1.00
00:08:01.000 So I agree.
00:08:02.000 Yeah, but with the AI boom, you're going to see the labor market shrink in a way we've never seen before. 0.98
00:08:09.000 And so why do we need to expedite that with illegal migrants, too? 0.92
00:08:12.000 We don't want to see it. 1.00
00:08:14.000 No, we don't.
00:08:14.000 And by the way, the H-1B scam is really infuriating because they pitch it as a program that brings in high-skilled tech workers.
00:08:23.000 But if you actually look, it's like McDonald's is hiring, you know, $40,000 a year salaried accountant.
00:08:30.000 That's what they use H-1B.
00:08:32.000 It's completely rigged, and it's rigged against the United States citizen.
00:08:37.000 And Charlie was very keen on the fact that it was rigged against young people.
00:08:41.000 So check out this clip.
00:08:43.000 Let's look at this.
00:08:43.000 This is President Trump signaling that he could, it's within his power to declare the Insurrection Act.
00:08:50.000 And the Insurrection Act obviously comes from the whiskey rebellion when the country was just getting started.
00:08:54.000 George Washington sent troops up to quell an insurrection.
00:08:58.000 They were rebelling against taxes on whiskey.
00:09:02.000 It's where it gets its name.
00:09:03.000 Let's go ahead and play cut 150.
00:09:05.000 And don't forget, and I haven't used it, but don't forget, I can use the Insurrection Act.
00:09:12.000 50% of the presidents almost have used that.
00:09:16.000 And that's unquestioned power.
00:09:19.000 I choose not to.
00:09:20.000 I'd rather do this.
00:09:21.000 But I'm met constantly by fake politicians, politicians that think that, you know, it's not like part of the radical left movement to have safety.
00:09:35.000 These cities have to be safe.
00:09:37.000 Our cities that are Democrat-run, exclusively just about, are unsafe cities.
00:09:44.000 And of course, he's 100% right, Mikey.
00:09:45.000 I mean, it's like you are, you know, you're safer to walk the streets of some, probably some war-torn areas of the world.
00:09:54.000 You're probably safer in Kiev, probably, than South Chicago. 0.91
00:09:57.000 I mean, oh, I haven't, that's why I think I got Shyrack, right?
00:10:01.000 You know, so his focusing on this crime problem is totally justified.
00:10:07.000 We don't have to live this way.
00:10:08.000 It's insane.
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00:11:15.000 All right.
00:11:16.000 So we should ask the question: you know, if this is what democracy looks like, you know, what does the alternative look like?
00:11:26.000 And I think we've seen a pretty good image of what the alternative looks like.
00:11:30.000 In the Democrat Party, for four years, we lived under tyranny, somebody that didn't respect the rule of law, didn't respect the Constitution.
00:11:39.000 So I put this out yesterday on X, and I got a lot of great feedback on it.
00:11:44.000 So, I mean, let's just go through a list.
00:11:45.000 This is a partial list.
00:11:46.000 This is just what I could think of off the top of my head.
00:11:49.000 He spent like three seconds on it.
00:11:51.000 Oh, well, there it is.
00:11:52.000 Thank you, team.
00:11:53.000 So the same party that's calling Trump a king and a tyrant and calling conservatives fascists and Nazis for supporting him.
00:12:00.000 This is what they did.
00:12:03.000 They locked kids out of school for nearly two years.
00:12:05.000 They forced experimental jabs just to get to work, go out to eat, serve in the military.
00:12:11.000 And then if you refused, you got dishonorably discharged from the military.
00:12:14.000 Thankfully, we've fixed that. 0.97
00:12:17.000 They completely ignored and bastardize our immigration and asylum laws to allow over 10 million illegals just to stream into the country.
00:12:25.000 They sued. 0.81
00:12:26.000 These are things that you kind of forget.
00:12:27.000 They sued to remove President Trump from the ballot.
00:12:30.000 They've tried to make it so he couldn't run for president.
00:12:33.000 They tried to imprison him for 700 years in federal prison.
00:12:36.000 They tried to bankrupt President Trump for what?
00:12:40.000 Successfully paying back a bank loan.
00:12:42.000 That's right.
00:12:43.000 He paid it back.
00:12:44.000 The bank made money.
00:12:45.000 The bank was on his team like they were a witness on his behalf in the trial.
00:12:52.000 They worked to disbar the lawyers that tried to defend President Trump against this lawfare.
00:12:59.000 They spied on at least eight U.S. senators and at least one congressman that we know of in Operation Arctic Frost.
00:13:06.000 They spied on Catholic churches that dared to do Latin Mass.
00:13:10.000 They investigated concerned parents and school boards as domestic extremists.
00:13:15.000 They rewrote Title IX to force men into playing women's sports.
00:13:21.000 They tied federal funding to it.
00:13:24.000 They forced and coerced social media companies into censoring the origins of COVID-19 on social media platforms.
00:13:32.000 They recruited this thanks to Tony Blinken.
00:13:35.000 They recruited over 50 former Intel officials to lie and say that Hunter Biden's laptop was Russian disinformation, even though they've been gaming this out for years.
00:13:45.000 They cooed a sitting president.
00:13:47.000 They forced Joe Biden out of the race, even though he didn't want to go. 0.88
00:13:51.000 And by the way, I still have questions about that when he was in Vegas and there was that emergency health situation that we sort of heard about and then it disappeared and they rushed Air Force One back east from Las Vegas.
00:14:06.000 All the police officers like, they thought that Joe Biden was dead.
00:14:09.000 And then within five days, he stepped out of the race.
00:14:14.000 Well, then what did they do?
00:14:15.000 They crowned Kamala Harris, their new candidate, without a single primary vote. 1.00
00:14:21.000 They weaponized the DOJ against J-Sixers, even grandmas that took selfies in the Capitol Rotunda and then walked out peacefully. 0.99
00:14:28.000 They have issued over 100 national injunctions from rogue judges, black robe tyranny, challenging anything the president is trying to accomplish, and this administration is trying to accomplish. 0.99
00:14:41.000 Only, I don't know, about 15 against Barack Obama, far fewer against Joe Biden.
00:14:46.000 Joe Biden forgave billions in student loan debt, even after SCODA said it was unconstitutional to do so.
00:14:54.000 So yeah, that party that did all of those things has the audacity, the gall to label President Trump a tyrant and a king.
00:15:04.000 But here's my word for you.
00:15:06.000 This is what democracy looks like.
00:15:13.000 This is what democracy looks like.
00:15:15.000 That's right.
00:15:19.000 So this is what's crazy.
00:15:21.000 So did you know JFK used 3,000 Alabama National Guardsmen in June 1963 to desegregate a university there?
00:15:28.000 I believe it was a university.
00:15:29.000 LBJ in 1965, 1,750 National Guardsmen and 11,000 federal troops.
00:15:37.000 Eisenhower did the same thing in September 1957.
00:15:40.000 270 National Guardsmen, 1,000 Army troops.
00:15:44.000 So this is all with precedent.
00:15:47.000 This is all within the Article II muscular executive branch realm of the Constitution.
00:15:55.000 Yeah, and it's just, it's crazy to me because for those of you watching this program, would you feel safe with your kid at night walking the O Block of Chicago?
00:16:05.000 Would you feel safe with your kid walking the streets of Memphis or St. Louis at nighttime or riding the subway in New York City?
00:16:12.000 And if the answer is no, that's a big problem because this is the United States of America, not Somalia or some third world country, and that's a big problem.
00:16:21.000 And you guys are going to label Trump as using the Insurrection Act, saying this isn't an insurrection.
00:16:27.000 He's just trying to keep your kids safe on the streets.
00:16:29.000 Well, and by the way, the people that aren't completely infected with TDS appreciate it.
00:16:35.000 And you see that from clips of normal people in Chicago being like, yes, please send the people, you know, the guard or in Portland where they can't get Antifa to stop harassing their neighborhood or respect noise ordinances.
00:16:45.000 You see this in DC where so many people are walking the streets again and restaurants are open.
00:16:49.000 You can take your family on the streets.
00:16:52.000 This is the Charlie Kirk Show.
00:16:54.000 We are all about saving babies with pre-born.
00:16:58.000 There are 24,836 kindergartners starting school this month who would not be alive if it hadn't been for what Pre-Born did in 2019.
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00:17:17.000 When a woman considering abortion sees her baby on that ultrasound and hears that baby's heartbeat, it doubles.
00:17:24.000 Let me repeat.
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00:18:08.000 Dr. James Orr, welcome back to the Charlie Kirk Show.
00:18:12.000 So let me just try and set the plate here, set the table for everybody.
00:18:17.000 What's going on at Oxford Union?
00:18:18.000 Because it's a whole other country for us, right?
00:18:20.000 You know, we're America first show, but we have a special place in our heart for this story because Charlie was there just before he was taken from us, and it was a really big deal.
00:18:31.000 And he actually debated this gentleman that ended up becoming the president-elect.
00:18:37.000 And when Charlie was assassinated, this gentleman, it was leaked these WhatsApp group chats or whatever, where he is celebrating.
00:18:44.000 He's gleeful.
00:18:45.000 He said, let's effing go after learning about it, which is disgraceful.
00:18:50.000 You passed the human decency test.
00:18:52.000 And then he calls a no-confidence vote on himself, a true act of humility and virtue from this gleeful celebrator of death and destruction.
00:19:02.000 So they had the vote.
00:19:04.000 There it is.
00:19:04.000 There's Charlie actually debating Sweatpants, bro, as we call him, because, you know, why wear a suit at the hallowed halls of Oxford Union, the epicenter of free speech and debate within Europe and the UK.
00:19:16.000 And he has been ousted.
00:19:18.000 But wait, there's more.
00:19:20.000 Now he's contesting it.
00:19:21.000 Dr. James Orr, please explain what's going on.
00:19:23.000 Dr. James Orr, of course, from Cambridge, which is another university, but we want to know all the details, please.
00:19:30.000 Well, Andrew and Mikey, it's great to be with you.
00:19:32.000 Yes, I am now at Cambridge, but once upon a time, I was at Oxford.
00:19:36.000 In fact, I've been a member of the Oxford Union since 1997 when I first went up as a fresh-faced undergraduate, aged 18.
00:19:43.000 And so I've been taking a very close personal interest in this, not just because Charlie was such a dear friend, and I know he was thrilled to have had the opportunity to debate there as well as at Cambridge.
00:19:53.000 And my goodness, didn't he do well up against Sweatpants Bro, as you call him, who should never really have been admitted to the University of Oxford, just to be clear.
00:20:04.000 I mean, difficult to translate his admission grades, but they were very, very poor.
00:20:10.000 I've certainly never let a student in with grades that bad. 1.00
00:20:14.000 I'm afraid it looks like he was a diversity admission. 0.97
00:20:18.000 And this is the admissions process, sadly, in Oxford is pretty corrupt. 0.90
00:20:23.000 And I'm very glad that this case, if nothing else, has drawn attention to that.
00:20:27.000 Yes, look, we may be another country, but my goodness, the rules of the Oxford Union are labyrinthine, Byzantine, pretty arcane.
00:20:36.000 It's very hard for us Brits to follow what's going on.
00:20:40.000 But yes, I should stress it does look as if Sweatpants Bro remains president-elect for now of the Oxford Union, even though he lost by 70% the vote of no confidence, which he called in himself on himself.
00:20:57.000 So before anyone talks about this being an example of council culture, he called the vote.
00:21:03.000 Nobody else.
00:21:05.000 He called the vote.
00:21:06.000 And this was not about his right to speak freely.
00:21:09.000 This was simply about whether or not the members of the Oxford Union had confidence in him as president-elect of the premier university free speech debating society in the world.
00:21:22.000 Its history speaks for itself.
00:21:26.000 And the almost sadly not unanimous, but the overwhelming majority of those who voted decided that he was not a fit and proper person to uphold the institutional ethos and values of the Oxford Union.
00:21:41.000 But he is contesting the vote.
00:21:43.000 He is appealing to wait for it, Rule 47, subsection H, subsection 5, which invokes the rule that where there may have been some disciplinary issues with the way in which the proxy votes were cast, he's claiming that some were tampered with.
00:22:05.000 And so for now, until that investigation is complete, he remains president-elect.
00:22:11.000 But look, I think his days are numbered.
00:22:13.000 And what a sorry saga, how far the Oxford Union has fallen.
00:22:19.000 And it fills me with shame and embarrassment.
00:22:22.000 And I know all of my friends on both left and right from Oxford and beyond are delighted that he seems to be on his way out.
00:22:32.000 I mean, I've got one or two friends.
00:22:33.000 Lord Toby Young, General Secretary of the Free Speech Union, is a dear friend of mine, is taking a very absolutist line here, saying that he should not be penalized by the union or the university for saying something offensive but lawful and that that's free speech.
00:22:48.000 You know, I understand that, but I do think that you do not have the right to be president of the Oxford Union if you think, as I think was obvious from his reaction from what he said in those private texts, if you think that violence and assassination are justified.
00:23:06.000 I think that just, you know, he claimed that it did not represent his values.
00:23:12.000 But I think actually, you know, it's when we, it's in the heat of the moment that very often we reveal who we are and what we think.
00:23:19.000 And, you know, I think he was roundly defeated by Charlie in that debate.
00:23:23.000 And, you know, I think he nursed some grievances and expressed his true feelings there.
00:23:29.000 So, you know, I'm looking forward to him being formally stepping aside.
00:23:33.000 It's probably going to take another few days, but I don't think there's any realistic chance of this disciplinary inquiry finding that the vote was not conducted properly.
00:23:46.000 And even if it turns out that there were some irregularities, the vote will simply be held again, and I suspect he would lose by an even greater margin.
00:23:53.000 Yeah, this is definitely student politics at its most ridiculous, and I think it gives a really bad name to the Oxford Union, which for student politics used to be an institution that gave them a lot of credibility.
00:24:07.000 But you look at the vote, it was 1,228 to 501.
00:24:11.000 So there's still 501 people that wanted to see the Oxford Union, this historic institution that used to be a place of class and hierarchy and beauty and debate and free speech get absolutely destroyed into a husk of its former self.
00:24:28.000 Yes, absolutely right, Mike.
00:24:31.000 I just would add, it's not just any debating chamber.
00:24:33.000 It's not just any university.
00:24:34.000 The number of prime ministers, cabinet ministers, and influential politicians who've been through that debating chamber is countlessly many.
00:24:43.000 So, you know, it really is an indicator of the future leadership of the United Kingdom.
00:24:47.000 And so, you know, it covers us not just the Oxford Union in shame, but the nation too, and the nation's primary sort of elite forming engine room.
00:24:56.000 Yeah, you said something really important, which if they are no longer going to be a serious institution that used to have prime ministers and presidents and serious people come, then we will no longer take them seriously.
00:25:09.000 And we will contact every American politician and speaker.
00:25:13.000 I know Mike Pence is supposed to go there.
00:25:14.000 I've already contacted him about not going.
00:25:17.000 And so there's a lot of other people that are supposed to be debating and speaking at the Oxford Union.
00:25:22.000 If you guys are no longer going to be a serious place for free speech and debate, serious people will no longer attend.
00:25:27.000 Yeah, well, that's absolutely right.
00:25:30.000 Dr. James Orr, I wanted to ask you a question because I know there has already been some speakers that have said they won't attend, and there's been donations.
00:25:38.000 Apparently, the Oxford Union is in debt.
00:25:42.000 There's financial issues.
00:25:44.000 They have a facility that needs like 4 million pounds to update it and renovate it.
00:25:48.000 There's a bunch of issues that they are facing, and this is flying right at the wrong time.
00:25:53.000 This is coming right at them.
00:25:55.000 And if they make the wrong choices in the next few days about how to deal with his appeal, there could be serious ramifications for the institution.
00:26:02.000 You're absolutely right, Andrew.
00:26:03.000 Membership has collapsed.
00:26:06.000 There are lawsuits all over the place.
00:26:08.000 Staff are leaving.
00:26:09.000 Trustees are resigning.
00:26:11.000 It's in a terrible state.
00:26:12.000 It's facing bankruptcy.
00:26:14.000 It's got losses of hundreds of thousands of pounds this coming year, huge maintenance bills.
00:26:19.000 You know, I honestly think that this is the worst moment for it reputationally since that famous debate in the 1930s where the motion was this house would not fight for king and country.
00:26:33.000 And that vote was sustained.
00:26:35.000 It was a terrible moment, probably the worst moment in the history of the Oxford Union until the last few weeks.
00:26:42.000 I really can't think of a time in its long history.
00:26:45.000 It goes right back to the middle of the 19th century.
00:26:48.000 I can't think of a time when it has covered itself in so much shame, when it's sort of horrified the conscience of the world to the degree that it has over the last few weeks.
00:27:00.000 And I think the sooner this business is resolved and it can move forward, the better.
00:27:05.000 Dr. James Orr, we've still got more time with you, so I'm excited to do this, but we're going to play 165.
00:27:12.000 This is a clip from Charlie where he just went off at Oxford.
00:27:16.000 165.
00:27:17.000 I'll give you a thousand pounds right now if you could tell me the U.S. citizen that was deported under Donald Trump.
00:27:21.000 He said that twice.
00:27:23.000 Yeah, the U.S. citizen that was deported under Donald Trump.
00:27:25.000 Can anyone tell me a thousand pounds?
00:27:26.000 I'll give it to you right now.
00:27:27.000 Yeah, name?
00:27:28.000 Wrong.
00:27:29.000 Not a U.S. citizen. 0.88
00:27:29.000 Salvador, citizen El Salvador. 0.88
00:27:31.000 Anyone else?
00:27:32.000 U.S. citizen deported under Trump.
00:27:33.000 Nope, that was a lie.
00:27:34.000 You should know better than that.
00:27:35.000 You go to Oxford.
00:27:36.000 So that is a correction.
00:27:37.000 Number two, can you tell me when it comes to Charlottesville something you said when Donald Trump said that there were people on both sides?
00:27:43.000 He was actually talking about the statue debate, not what you said.
00:27:47.000 That's line number two.
00:27:47.000 So that's a hoax.
00:27:49.000 Oh, yeah, you said that somebody over here said something about Pete Hegseth being nothing more than a TV host.
00:27:55.000 You should also mention that he was a service member of the military.
00:28:01.000 And he goes on.
00:28:03.000 He goes on.
00:28:04.000 It was a great moment from Charlie.
00:28:06.000 And it went really viral too at the time.
00:28:08.000 I mean, and just so you know, Charlie had prepared remarks and he threw him out to listen to all the arguments because I think he went last.
00:28:16.000 He listened to all the remarks and he's sitting there jotting notes down and just lie, lie, lie, deconstructing lie.
00:28:21.000 And it kind of reminds me of that clip where Charlie says that he felt called by God on the planet to confront evil, to confront lies and proclaim the truth.
00:28:30.000 And so you could just see Charlie stewing there in his chair, listening to all these pretentious little snot-nosed Oxford students lying about American politics.
00:28:40.000 And he's going, they don't know what they're talking about.
00:28:42.000 So, anyways, Mikey, 10 seconds if you want, real quick.
00:28:45.000 I'm sorry.
00:28:46.000 I just remember Blake and I were telling him, calm down, because we thought he was going to come way hotter.
00:28:46.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:28:52.000 And so he kept it together.
00:28:54.000 His Scottish blood was brewing.
00:28:56.000 He kept it together.
00:28:57.000 Let's welcome Daniel into the conversation.
00:28:59.000 Mikey, I'll let you take it.
00:29:00.000 Yeah, Daniel.
00:29:01.000 So for those of you who don't know, Daniel Ogoloma, he had the opportunity to debate with Charlie.
00:29:06.000 They're on the same team at Oxford.
00:29:08.000 And so, Daniel, you've met George, you've seen him before. 0.93
00:29:13.000 And this is, you missed it, but I said this is student politics at its most ridiculous.
00:29:18.000 Would love for you to weigh in on what's going on at the Oxford Union.
00:29:22.000 I think, you know, firstly, let's be honest, you know, when he celebrated, you know, Charlie Kirk's, you know, being shot, you know, I think he crossed the moral line, you know, and no serious institution should tolerate that.
00:29:33.000 So I think what's happening right now is very important.
00:29:36.000 You know, the Oxford Union has been around for two centuries.
00:29:38.000 You know, it's one of the last places where opposing ideas and opposing ideas can meet and clash without violence. 0.91
00:29:46.000 So for Aberonye to be chairing violence, I think it's silly. 0.97
00:29:51.000 I think it was very silly of him. 0.79
00:29:53.000 And definitely what's happening right now is due to him. 0.87
00:29:59.000 I've always thought he's a strange fella.
00:30:01.000 I don't know him personally, but I've seen him around the union once or twice.
00:30:06.000 And he's always got a do-rag on his head, you know, looking really strange.
00:30:10.000 He doesn't adhere to the dress code policy.
00:30:14.000 He's always looking scruffy.
00:30:15.000 And I've always asked myself, how is this gentleman the person that's going to lead this organization?
00:30:20.000 So once, you know, he said that I personally wasn't surprised once I saw his face and I could put a face to the name.
00:30:28.000 You know, and thousands of alumni and students have come out, you know, for the vote of no confidence.
00:30:33.000 And I don't think that's cancel culture.
00:30:34.000 I think that's simply just accountability.
00:30:36.000 You know, that's democracy in action.
00:30:38.000 You know, and he's now saying he won't step down because of procedural flaws, you know, in the vote.
00:30:43.000 You know, yeah.
00:30:45.000 And George is claiming that part of this is racism as to why this no confidence vote is being placed against him.
00:30:53.000 What's your take on that?
00:30:54.000 I think it's just shows his level of immaturity.
00:31:00.000 You know, for him to be able to say what he did, you know, Charlie Kirk just got effing shot.
00:31:04.000 Let's go in a public WhatsApp group already shows you the kind of human being that this person is.
00:31:10.000 So, you know, when he's ousted and he's calling it racism, you could already tell, you know, the kind of angle he's going to go down.
00:31:19.000 So I think it's a bunch of nonsense.
00:31:22.000 I know many students of color, many alumni of color who voted in the no confidence debate and are not fans of him because of what he said.
00:31:31.000 So, I think it's total nonsense for him to say it's racism.
00:31:34.000 Well said.
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00:32:45.000 We're talking about Oxford Union, which many believe is the most prestigious debate society on the planet, certainly within the UK and within Europe.
00:32:55.000 And Charlie was just there, and they're trying to put in place, or they were, a man who celebrated Charlie's death.
00:33:01.000 Charlie actually debated him at Oxford Union.
00:33:04.000 Why this is a big deal is because if we allow this to stand, we understand in America that we probably wouldn't exist in our current form. 0.92
00:33:11.000 Well, we definitely wouldn't have, if it wasn't for what we inherited from England and from the Commonwealth, you know, the Christian society that we inherited here. 0.67
00:33:21.000 We have to maintain this posture, I think, globally, Dr. Orr and Daniel. 0.70
00:33:28.000 I think that it's important because if we start becoming an island with the only place where we have the First Amendment that people believe in free speech, then we are going to be increasingly pressed upon by this transatlantic alliance where we're going to have our speech curtailed.
00:33:43.000 And we've seen that already, especially in Joe Biden's tenure.
00:33:47.000 So we need to insist that a robust free speech ecosystem exists within Western allies and Western countries.
00:33:56.000 And that being said, celebrating somebody's death is completely across the line.
00:34:01.000 Nobody's saying he needs to go to prison.
00:34:02.000 Nobody's saying that he's going to get a knock on the door because he tweeted about migrants or something like happens in the UK.
00:34:08.000 We're just saying he's not fit to serve in this prestigious role.
00:34:11.000 And I just want to present this to you, Darvo.
00:34:13.000 I want our audience to understand Darvo.
00:34:15.000 It's an acronym for deny, attack, reverse victim, and offender.
00:34:19.000 It's a manipulative tactic used by people that have done something wrong or perpetrated an ill or evil to avoid responsibility.
00:34:28.000 So it does not surprise me that he would deny that he did apologize.
00:34:32.000 I will say that.
00:34:32.000 But then he will reverse victim and say that now he's the victim of racial attacks in this old, you know, white institution or whatever he's saying.
00:34:41.000 But that is the sequence of events that we're seeing.
00:34:45.000 That is the pattern that is unfolding.
00:34:47.000 Dr. James Orr, do you believe that George is a victim of something here?
00:34:54.000 You know this institution.
00:34:55.000 Well, listen, look, yeah, look, nobody is victimizing him.
00:34:59.000 Nobody, he called the vote of no confidence himself.
00:35:03.000 And so, you know, nobody is forcing this on him.
00:35:05.000 He simply put this motion to the membership, and it is therefore a matter for the membership to decide how they want to vote.
00:35:16.000 And it turned out that, you know, by a majority of 70%, they wanted him out.
00:35:21.000 And I think the view is: look, it's not, I think, that, you know, there's this wonderful institution of free speech and yet, you know, yet also, you know, there are limits.
00:35:31.000 No, actually, the reason the members have taken the view that they have is precisely because it is such an important cradle of free speech.
00:35:40.000 And any such important cradle needs somebody at the helm who is publicly celebrating the values and the institutional ethos of the Oxford Union.
00:35:51.000 If you are celebrating the violent assassination of a free speech hero, somebody whose free speech credentials were obvious to everyone and certainly obvious to Abraonier because he debated him himself, then that is simply that that undermines the institution.
00:36:08.000 It brings the reputational shame on the institution.
00:36:12.000 And so I just one more thing I want to say, Andrew, is that I don't, we mustn't think of Abreone's conduct as representative of the attitudes of Brits and particularly young Brits towards Charlie Kirk.
00:36:27.000 I was with my son and a few students opposite Downing Street on Whitehall two days after Charlie's assassination.
00:36:34.000 It was so moving.
00:36:35.000 There were thousands of people there with pictures of Charlie.
00:36:39.000 There was candles everywhere.
00:36:41.000 There was worship music.
00:36:42.000 There was prayer.
00:36:43.000 It was a celebration of his life.
00:36:46.000 And the following day at this big rally in controversial rally in London, really was just a celebration of Charlie.
00:36:52.000 And it was just wonderful and very moving to see what an impact he'd had so many thousands of miles away on young Brits, people on the left and the right.
00:37:03.000 People had enormous respect for him.
00:37:05.000 So let's not let this incident make your viewers think that somehow this is anything other than a terrible anomaly in terms of how Charlie was celebrated, how he was respected, and how grieved so many of us are on this side of the country, this side of the Atlantic and the mother country at his shocking death.
00:37:27.000 And we honor him and we're so grateful to you for carrying on his legacy.
00:37:31.000 And we are cheering Turning Point USA on from afar.
00:37:36.000 Well, thank you for saying that.
00:37:37.000 And that is something that we've brought up a lot, actually.
00:37:40.000 I brought it up with Vice President JD Vance just last week.
00:37:44.000 And yeah, there are these instances, these anomalies of people that are, you know, espousing just vitriol and hate and really evil stuff.
00:37:53.000 And they're doing it publicly.
00:37:54.000 In this instance, it was a private chat, but they are doing it publicly in the United States.
00:37:58.000 That is a small fraction of the overwhelming amount of love that we have seen pour in from the country, this enthusiasm.
00:38:04.000 And you see it in Turning Points growth.
00:38:06.000 I do want to just broaden this really quickly.
00:38:09.000 And Daniel, I would love for you to chime in on that.
00:38:11.000 You know, are you seeing that love for Charlie at a more sort of grassroots level, closer to the people?
00:38:17.000 Yeah, this is a bad anomaly, a bad example.
00:38:19.000 But tell us what Charlie has sort of meant more broadly for young people in and around Oxford, but all over the UK.
00:38:28.000 Firstly, I'll start.
00:38:29.000 When Charlie was announced that he'll be speaking at Oxford, the first thing that people were saying, most of the students were saying, was, why is he coming to Oxford?
00:38:38.000 Why is the president platforming him?
00:38:42.000 And you could almost see the tension in the room.
00:38:45.000 I mean, even outside the gate, when I was arriving to be part of the speech, there was police there, there were protesters, and there was so much tension in the room.
00:38:53.000 But what I realized when Charlie was debating is that he's not trying to make anybody look silly, because I know we've, you know, we've shown a clip here where he's saying, give me a thousand pounds and I'll show you.
00:39:04.000 He's literally just trying to get his point across and show people that, look, what I'm saying is actually right.
00:39:10.000 You are just a little bit confused.
00:39:12.000 He's trying to get you on his side.
00:39:14.000 And I think we saw that with the results.
00:39:17.000 We saw an ease of the tension with the results.
00:39:20.000 We got 92 people, 92 students who voted for the opposition.
00:39:25.000 And we were really surprised when the vote was announced.
00:39:29.000 And I think it just goes to show that people don't have issues with Charlie's views.
00:39:36.000 I think what they have issues with is the fact that he's right.
00:39:41.000 And they have issues with the fact that he's right most of the time.
00:39:45.000 And, you know, one thing I'll say is a lot of young people respect Charlie for being a bastion of free speech and creating platforms as a personality that is transcending him.
00:39:59.000 You know, and that's something that we have to also see, with mr um, George Aboroni, everybody saying that he's not stepping down, but I think what we need to do is focus on the platform which is Oxford Union.
00:40:10.000 We need to uphold Oxford Union as a credible um society and forget the personality, and I think that's something that we saw with Charlie.
00:40:17.000 He focused on turning point Usa and yes, he was the main man, but look, turning point is here today, Charlie Cook Charlie Cook Show is still going on and platform Trump's personality, and I think that's what Charlie Cook pushed and I think that's what a lot of young people respect him for.
00:40:32.000 Well said, Daniel.
00:40:33.000 Well said, that was.
00:40:34.000 That was fantastic.
00:40:35.000 I I uh, I I would be remiss if I didn't uh, bring up this free speech in the Uk just briefly.
00:40:41.000 We just have a couple minutes here.
00:40:43.000 Um, you know, dr James, or you are an advisor to Nigel Farage we're seeing Reform.
00:40:49.000 The polling is looking like I don't know if you even would have anticipated it looking this good.
00:40:55.000 Uh, if a snap election was held today, Reform would be in power.
00:40:59.000 You would form a coalition government pretty easily and uh, Nigel Farage would probably be the next prime minister of the Uk where?
00:41:08.000 What is the status of free speech right now in the United Kingdom and what do you hope to see?
00:41:14.000 Maybe comes out of this?
00:41:15.000 This row at at the at Oxford Union?
00:41:18.000 Well, you know it's.
00:41:20.000 It's never been worse is the true answer to that Andrew, and I talked to Charlie about it a great deal when I was out with you guys in in august and actually one of the first people I rang was Nigel Farage.
00:41:31.000 When I got the news just just about an hour later, I was at this dinner and I left the dinner.
00:41:36.000 Actually, I think Nigel was the first person I spoke to outside that dinner and we, of course Nigel, have known him far longer than I had and was was uh, so upset and and uh, we were just uh, you know we were in a state of shock, but it it has reconfirmed our commitment within reform Uk to making sure that we recover England's ancient status as a cradle of free speech, of freedom of religion, of free association, of free conscience, freedom of conscience,
00:42:05.000 and to recover those ancient values that we exported, thanks to the settlers and the Puritans, so successfully uh, all around the world, but most of course, most of all, of course, in the New World and in in the United States.
00:42:19.000 And I know I just you know Charlie would have been thrilled at how well Nigel was doing, how well Reform UK was doing uh.
00:42:26.000 I was telling him already in august as we were pulling ahead in in the polls and uh, just how well we were doing and I was getting his advice and just longing for him.
00:42:35.000 He had to come over and and and to give us, give us some uh, give us some cut juice, As I think I said to him in his last show, I was just had the honor of being his last guest.
00:42:48.000 And he was just so generous and said, you know, anything you want, any ideas I can give, I'd just love to do that.
00:42:54.000 And so in many ways, you know, we're fighting hard here in Britain for freedom of speech.
00:42:59.000 It's one of our four or five most important policy North stars.
00:43:03.000 And I've lost count of the number of times in Reform HQ that we've said to ourselves, we're doing this for Charlie.
00:43:10.000 Wow.
00:43:10.000 That's beautiful.
00:43:11.000 Thank you for that, Dr. James Orr.
00:43:13.000 That actually gives me a lot of encouragement.
00:43:16.000 And I remember being around a lot of British kids, French kids, German kids that wanted to get selfies with Charlie and they knew him from his videos online and they followed him.
00:43:27.000 And I think that it was almost providential that I would say almost.
00:43:33.000 I'm going to take that out.
00:43:34.000 It was providential that Charlie visited the UK when he did and that he left that his imprint, his imprint on that country.
00:43:44.000 Because actually deep down, Charlie liked to complain and kvetch about the UK and what it's become and all this stuff, but he loved it and he respected it and he respected the heritage and the history.
00:43:53.000 So I'm so glad that happened.
00:43:55.000 I have to say goodbye to you gentlemen now.
00:43:56.000 I wish we could have more time.
00:43:57.000 I wish we could just go forever with this because I just really love talking with both of you.
00:44:02.000 And I know, Mikey, you share that sentiment.
00:44:05.000 But thank you, gentlemen, for making the time.
00:44:07.000 Great to be with you both.
00:44:08.000 Thank you for having me.
00:44:09.000 Thank you.
00:44:10.000 Thank you.
00:44:13.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.