The Charlie Kirk Show - Debates From the Archive - Charlie on the Trans Debate

00:00:03.000 My name is Charlie Kirk.

00:00:05.000 I run the largest pro-American student organization in the country fighting for the future of our republic.

00:00:11.000 My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth.

00:00:14.000 If the most important thing for you is just feeling good, you're going to end up miserable.

00:00:19.000 But if the most important thing is doing good, you'll end up purposeful.

00:00:24.000 College is a scam, everybody.

00:00:26.000 You got to stop sending your kids to college.

00:00:27.000 You should get married as young as possible and have as many kids as possible.

00:00:31.000 Go start a Turning Point USA college chapter.

00:00:33.000 Go start a Turning Point USA high school chapter.

00:00:35.000 Go find out how your church can get involved.

00:00:37.000 Sign up and become an activist.

00:00:39.000 I gave my life to the Lord in fifth grade.

00:00:41.000 Most important decision I ever made in my life.

00:00:43.000 And I encourage you to do the same.

00:00:45.000 Here I am.

00:00:46.000 Lord, use me.

00:00:48.000 Buckle up, everybody.

00:00:49.000 Here we go.

00:00:56.000 The Charlie Kirk Show is proudly sponsored by Preserve Gold, the leading gold and silver experts and the only precious metals company I recommend to my family, friends, and viewers.

00:01:12.000 Let her talk. 0.98

00:01:12.000 I am here to have a civil conversation that's going to be a good idea. 0.98

00:01:15.000 Can you show them?

00:01:15.000 This is why we need AI art.

00:01:16.000 Can you show them that?

00:01:18.000 Fair enough.

00:01:19.000 You know, fair.

00:01:20.000 Wasn't meant to be good, was meant to be scary.

00:01:23.000 But nonetheless, I had a question regarding, I recently learned about you.

00:01:26.000 I didn't know before.

00:01:28.000 But you had this revolving question of like, what is a woman?

00:01:31.000 And I was interested in talking to you about that.

00:01:33.000 As someone who does identify that way.

00:01:36.000 Do you know the answer to that?

00:01:37.000 What is a woman? 1.00

00:01:38.000 So why I was going to have this conversation with you.

00:01:41.000 So have you studied anthropology?

00:01:44.000 You mean, do I know what a human being is?

00:01:45.000 No, no, no.

00:01:46.000 I'm asking, have you studied anthropology?

00:01:47.000 No, I haven't been to college, actually.

00:01:49.000 Okay, that's okay.

00:01:50.000 So in anthropology, it's the study of human and culture.

00:01:53.000 And yada, yada, yada.

00:01:54.000 Go with breaking that down.

00:01:55.000 So everyone is born with a sex. 0.78

00:01:57.000 We can't deny that.

00:01:57.000 That's true.

00:01:58.000 That's the real thing.

00:01:59.000 But the moving from sex, the moving from the terminology from changing from sex to gender, two different things.

00:02:06.000 Gender doesn't exist. 1.00

00:02:07.000 Okay, why do you feel that way?

00:02:09.000 Well, so since you're an anthropology expert, who can?

00:02:12.000 I never said I was.

00:02:13.000 Well, have you studied anthropology?

00:02:14.000 Yeah.

00:02:15.000 Okay, so you know more than who came up with the term gender and when was it coined and started and when was it proliferated?

00:02:21.000 Yeah, I don't know about that.

00:02:23.000 Yeah, okay.

00:02:24.000 So exactly.

00:02:25.000 We get that.

00:02:26.000 So let me just get this straight.

00:02:28.000 If you study anthropology and I haven't and you don't know like the most fundamental thing about the answer to that?

00:02:33.000 Yes.

00:02:33.000 It's by John Money in the 1960s.

00:02:35.000 Period.

00:02:35.000 I'm glad you're educated.

00:02:36.000 So then let's talk about gender.

00:02:37.000 So breaking it down.

00:02:39.000 No time.

00:02:40.000 Who is John Money?

00:02:42.000 John Money's like the most important person when it comes to the idea of gender, transgenderism.

00:02:47.000 He came up with this idea as gender, which basically is, hold on, let's have some respect.

00:02:52.000 Okay.

00:02:53.000 Let's have a conversation.

00:02:54.000 I want to hear what he says.

00:02:55.000 Basically, personality.

00:02:56.000 So there's two sexes, no genders, infinite personalities.

00:03:00.000 Interesting.

00:03:00.000 So for almost all of human existence, this idea of gender has never existed.

00:03:04.000 It's a concocted, artificial, academic term that was, again, pushed in the 1960s by John Money.

00:03:10.000 And I don't need an anthropology degree or to go to an anthropology class to know that.

00:03:13.000 Yeah, that makes sense.

00:03:16.000 I guess my question for you then is, do you in your mind know that like in society then like gender is even if you don't think it's a relevant term or if it's real it's still a relevant thing within our society.

00:03:27.000 It's still something that's on your driver's license.

00:03:29.000 It's still something that's on your doctor's pay points.

00:03:30.000 It's still something we have to talk about and it affects society.

00:03:33.000 What is on your birth certificate?

00:03:35.000 Your sex. 0.99

00:03:36.000 Oh, but not your gender. 0.98

00:03:37.000 That's weird.

00:03:38.000 But you can change your gender marker on your driver's.

00:03:40.000 That's where we disagree.

00:03:41.000 You cannot actually change what you are.

00:03:43.000 Gender is an irrelevant thing that we've come up with. 0.78

00:03:46.000 You can feel that way, but gender is, just because it's irrelevant to you doesn't mean it's irrelevant to transgender people, to queer people.

00:03:52.000 Their identities exist whether you agree with them or not.

00:03:54.000 No, no, no, I got it.

00:03:54.000 I totally acknowledge people have mental delusions.

00:03:56.000 Like, I totally get that.

00:03:57.000 Like, totally.

00:03:58.000 100%.

00:04:00.000 Then we might just, we're going to hit a disagreement because I just can't say that being queer is a mental delusion.

00:04:04.000 No, of course it's a mental delusion.

00:04:05.000 I mean, if you think you're something you're not, if you think you're a wolf when you're human, or if you think you're a human when you're a wolf, or vice versa, is that not a mental delusion?

00:04:14.000 But that's not what gender is. 1.00

00:04:16.000 Oh, no, no, but they think they're something that they're not.

00:04:18.000 Like, they have XX chromosomes. 0.97

00:04:19.000 Who are you to say they're not?

00:04:20.000 Oh, but show me the chromosomes.

00:04:21.000 Like, if it's XX chromosomes, they think they have XY chromosomes.

00:04:24.000 That's a delusion.

00:04:25.000 Okay, so again, we're talking about sex.

00:04:27.000 We're not talking about gender.

00:04:28.000 Okay, so again, gender does not exist.

00:04:31.000 So we are getting into a domain where they want us to acknowledge those of us that live in reality, right?

00:04:37.000 To acknowledge their delusion.

00:04:39.000 Now, again, we wouldn't care if all it's like a 30-year-old weirdo wants to wear a dress alone at home.

00:04:43.000 It doesn't impact us.

00:04:44.000 The problem is that we then have to use the pronoun that is objectively against nature and against reality.

00:04:51.000 Number two, we have to teach this to our kids.

00:04:53.000 And number three, all of a sudden, like transgenderism becomes like a big social and civil right.

00:04:59.000 It has been something since the dawn of time.

00:05:01.000 It has been recorded that transgender and queer people have existed throughout all of history.

00:05:05.000 Let's dive into that.

00:05:06.000 So again, I fully acknowledge.

00:05:08.000 I want to hear what you have to say.

00:05:09.000 So like, you know, I fully acknowledge that people have had mental problems since the dawn of the world.

00:05:12.000 Let's not talk about mental problems.

00:05:13.000 No, but that doesn't mean that connotation is.

00:05:15.000 Because even in the DSM-5, gender dysphoria is acknowledged.

00:05:19.000 Like, if it's not a mental problem, if it's not a mental problem, why do you have to see a psychologist?

00:05:25.000 What's wrong with seeing a psychologist?

00:05:27.000 No, nothing.

00:05:27.000 But again, you go to a psychologist.

00:05:29.000 What's wrong?

00:05:29.000 No, no, no, no.

00:05:30.000 Time out.

00:05:31.000 There's nothing wrong with it, but you go to a psychologist because something is wrong.

00:05:34.000 You don't go to a psychologist just because everything's great.

00:05:38.000 I've been in therapy for five years and I started just because.

00:05:41.000 That might just be me, but I just started because.

00:05:44.000 It's kind of strange.

00:05:45.000 I got to be honest with you.

00:05:46.000 It's okay if you feel that way, but.

00:05:47.000 Well, again, you go to the doctor to get something fixed.

00:05:50.000 So definitionally, there's an error.

00:05:52.000 There's something off the mark.

00:05:54.000 Is it an error or is it an idea?

00:05:56.000 Is it like you can explore that part of yourself?

00:05:58.000 Is it a problem to explore your gender identity?

00:06:01.000 Again, I'm not going to tell you you can't do it.

00:06:03.000 Number one, kids should not be able to do it, period.

00:06:04.000 It should be illegal for kids to do that in this country.

00:06:06.000 Number one.

00:06:07.000 But the broader question is: what is reality?

00:06:12.000 And I refuse to ever acknowledge that a man can become a woman or a woman can become a man. 0.64

00:06:16.000 Within your reality.

00:06:17.000 No, no, in objective reality.

00:06:19.000 It's not Charlie.

00:06:19.000 Within your reality.

00:06:20.000 No, again, it's.

00:06:21.000 So this is an important thing: subjectivity versus objectivity.

00:06:26.000 So again, let me ask you a question.

00:06:28.000 Can a woman have a prostate? 1.00

00:06:32.000 No, no.

00:06:34.000 Yes.

00:06:37.000 Tell me, tell me.

00:06:37.000 Transgender women.

00:06:40.000 Okay.

00:06:41.000 So transgender women. 1.00

00:06:42.000 So people who identify as a woman within society, they present with their gender expression as feminine. 0.72

00:06:47.000 So you have to just give me a working definition of then what a woman is. 1.00

00:06:50.000 Do they have a uterus, too? 0.99

00:06:51.000 Well, just let her talk. 1.00

00:06:52.000 What is a woman? 1.00

00:06:53.000 It is anyone who identifies as that way.

00:06:57.000 And it's okay, you guys don't feel that way.

00:06:59.000 Timeout, though, but that doesn't actually describe a woman. 0.92

00:07:01.000 That's just saying that anyone can be a woman. 0.98

00:07:04.000 But do you need the definition of a woman to know what one is? 1.00

00:07:07.000 100%.

00:07:07.000 Of course you do.

00:07:08.000 I don't.

00:07:09.000 I mean, but of course you, but first of all, yes, but isn't it just like a little bit silly you can't answer this fundamental biological question of what a woman is?

00:07:17.000 But again, you're asking me about sex.

00:07:18.000 You're asking me about what a female sex is. 1.00

00:07:21.000 And I can tell you what the female sex is, but as for a woman, which is a gendered term created from the terminology of the expression of gender.

00:07:29.000 We, because we live in reality, reject the term gender.

00:07:32.000 Okay.

00:07:32.000 Right?

00:07:33.000 And again, you didn't even know where it was from.

00:07:35.000 I'm not criticizing you because, you know, you're in anthropology studying and I'm not.

00:07:39.000 That's fine.

00:07:40.000 But getting back to its like core roots, I just want to make sure that we are clear that anybody can become a woman.

00:07:46.000 Yes.

00:07:47.000 Okay.

00:07:47.000 When is womanhood achieved?

00:07:50.000 That's not about an achievement.

00:07:51.000 There's never, it's not like it's a race.

00:07:52.000 You don't race to achieve womanhood or manhood.

00:07:55.000 So at any point at any time, someone can become a woman. 1.00

00:07:58.000 Yes, and they can achieve womanhood and experience it. 1.00

00:08:01.000 can experience what it's like to be a woman and being a woman but so so basically so basically to be a woman is just a mindset Yeah. 0.72

00:08:15.000 It's a social upbringing and it's a social thing that we implore on people who are raised as female. 0.98

00:08:21.000 Okay, this is now we're getting somewhere.

00:08:23.000 Do you think there are any objective differences between biological men and biological women?

00:08:29.000 Biological males and biological females.

00:08:32.000 Yes, there are sex differences.

00:08:35.000 Okay, so if there are, if there are sex, if there are sex differences, then how can a man who is of the sex of a man feel what a woman feels?

00:08:45.000 How is that possible?

00:08:46.000 Because gender is not related to that.

00:08:48.000 Okay, so gender is the cultural weight that we put on individuals with gender norms and what we impose for them to do.

00:08:59.000 We impose.

00:09:00.000 So as society, like when I'm born, I'm a woman.

00:09:02.000 And people say that.

00:09:03.000 But that doesn't mean that I could grow up and become an adult and then decide that I don't feel that way.

00:09:08.000 It doesn't matter what you, that's what we're getting finally at, right?

00:09:10.000 And I'm glad we're finally getting somewhere.

00:09:12.000 We're of the opinion that your feelings mean absolutely nothing.

00:09:15.000 Okay, and that's okay.

00:09:16.000 You don't have to care about my feelings.

00:09:17.000 But let me just finally get to a point then.

00:09:20.000 What if I refuse to call you a woman when you are a man or a man when you are a woman?

00:09:26.000 Am I allowed to do that?

00:09:27.000 Is misgendering okay?

00:09:28.000 Is that acceptable?

00:09:30.000 I can't stop you from doing it, but I personally would be.

00:09:32.000 Should there be a punishment for misgendering in the workplace?

00:09:35.000 Legally?

00:09:36.000 Yeah, or how about because you'd be fired from your job for misgendering?

00:09:39.000 It depends on the extent of the situation.

00:09:41.000 I mean, if you're harassing somebody who is asking you to just use their pronouns.

00:09:46.000 No, I refuse to ever use pronouns that are not.

00:09:48.000 You're that person.

00:09:50.000 Do not go out of your way.

00:09:51.000 You can't ignore someone in your workplace.

00:09:53.000 That's the point.

00:09:54.000 But you can be civil.

00:09:56.000 You can address them with their name and just their name.

00:09:59.000 Well, again, that is something you can do.

00:10:02.000 The most civil thing we can do is to tell the truth.

00:10:05.000 And I refuse to lie to trans people and accommodate their delusion and to say that even though you say you are a woman or say you are a man, I'm going to accommodate that. 1.00

00:10:16.000 Connection, open dialogue.

00:10:19.000 These are the things that build communities.

00:10:21.000 Charlie, Kirk, and TikTok share in that knowledge.

00:10:24.000 That's why TikTok has built a space where that kind of listening actually happens.

00:10:28.000 People don't just post, they respond.

00:10:31.000 They build on each other's ideas.

00:10:32.000 You'll see a teacher simplifying a tough lesson so it finally clicks, or a gardener sharing a trick that saved their crop.

00:10:39.000 But what matters most isn't the video.

00:10:41.000 It's what comes next.

00:10:43.000 Someone asking a question, someone else answering with a story of their own.

00:10:47.000 And suddenly, people who've never met become a community built on curiosity.

00:10:52.000 When people listen and understand, a shift happens.

00:10:55.000 Walls come down.

00:10:56.000 Ideas travel further and connection, real connection, takes their place.

00:11:00.000 That's what listening does.

00:11:01.000 It reminds us that we're not as different as we may think.

00:11:04.000 And that's what makes TikTok so powerful.

00:11:07.000 It's a place where every post can turn into a conversation and every conversation can make a difference.

00:11:12.000 Portions of our program are sponsored in part by TikTok.

00:11:18.000 Can we at least come to some agreement?

00:11:21.000 Do you think that it should be illegal for minors to get gender-affirming care?

00:11:27.000 What is the gender-affirming care you're referring to?

00:11:29.000 Do you mean like sex, like palomoprosity?

00:11:31.000 Do you mean like?

00:11:31.000 Well, everything from top surgery to hormones.

00:11:34.000 Like, that's a spectrum of a gradation.

00:11:36.000 Yeah, there is a spectrum of care that people can receive.

00:11:39.000 So the first step to a gender-affirming care is social changes. 0.64

00:11:42.000 So their environment needs to change.

00:11:43.000 People need to be supportive of their environment and changing who they are in society.

00:11:47.000 And then with the moving forward, if you decided that after time that that is something you wanted to do is receive care, you could do hormones.

00:11:55.000 We should affirm a 14-year-old that thinks they're transgender. 0.97

00:11:57.000 I think we should go out of our way to socially support a transgender 14-year-old and then wait to see what happens later on in their life to decide if they wanted to medically transition or not.

00:12:07.000 Guys, one second.

00:12:08.000 This is where we have a disagreement.

00:12:10.000 We should seek to heal that 14-year-old by not accommodating or affirming their own lie about themselves.

00:12:16.000 But what is healing?

00:12:18.000 Healing is coming back into alignment with your own perception of the people who are believes in the Bible.

00:12:24.000 Not everyone practices that religion.

00:12:27.000 It's not even the Bible.

00:12:28.000 You're talking to me.

00:12:29.000 It's nature.

00:12:30.000 So your nature is your biological sex.

00:12:34.000 And we can agree that people will live a better life if they're in harmony with how they were born.

00:12:39.000 I wouldn't necessarily agree with that.

00:12:41.000 Okay, but again, we know it's correct because people that are transgender tend to have more depression, more anxiety, not because they're bullied or ridiculed, but because they have these underlying issues.

00:12:52.000 So do cis men.

00:12:53.000 Cis men have like one of the highest rates of depression and suicide in this country. 1.00

00:12:57.000 Cisgender men. 0.98

00:12:58.000 You mean cisgender men?

00:13:00.000 Yes.

00:13:00.000 Actually, that's not true.

00:13:02.000 Women are far more depressed than men on average in this country.

00:13:05.000 Men commit suicide more because they're more successful at committing suicide than women. 1.00

00:13:09.000 It's just true.

00:13:10.000 Women actually try to commit suicide more. 1.00

00:13:12.000 It actually just takes two or three attempts for women to actually get there. 1.00

00:13:15.000 It's not a joke.

00:13:15.000 It's actually true.

00:13:16.000 But can we at least then agree that men should not be allowed in female sports? 0.54

00:13:26.000 We jumped topics very quickly.

00:13:28.000 No, that's actually, it's not a topic.

00:13:29.000 It's all in the arena of this is why it matters of what a woman is. 1.00

00:13:32.000 You say, why do you care?

00:13:33.000 What do you care?

00:13:34.000 Because it impacts a lot of different things.

00:13:35.000 It impacts a lot of different things.

00:13:36.000 You're right.

00:13:37.000 Including female sports. 1.00

00:13:38.000 So do you think that the Boise State female volleyball team or the Boise State female softball team or whatever, they should have a protected unit that biological men should not be allowed to compete in their if you want to divide it based on sex, you can, but it's not if you're dividing it on gender, then they should be allowed to play because they identify as women.

00:14:00.000 If it's about performance, then we can talk about what goes into that individual's care with their health.

00:14:05.000 If they're on hormones, if they're not on hormones, whatever is affecting them.

00:14:08.000 But ultimately speaking, if we're talking about dividing the gendered sport based on gender, then it is.

00:14:14.000 What would you reckon?

00:14:15.000 Should we do it on gender or should we do it based on sex? 0.50

00:14:17.000 Because you've wanted to have everything configured on gender previously.

00:14:20.000 Should sports be sex-centric or gender-centric in your own view?

00:14:25.000 I feel like sports should be gender-centric. 0.97

00:14:27.000 Okay, so then you have no issue with a man who is born male at birth, who then becomes a woman, be able to compete against women in women's sports.

00:14:36.000 Most people who are transgender and performing in sports are usually at a point in their transition where they are on hormones that lessen.

00:14:42.000 If we're talking about specifically transgender.

00:14:46.000 We have 890 instances of the last five years of biological men that have won awards or trophies or first place finishes over biological women, over women, from track championships to NCAA swim meets to volleyball meets.

00:15:02.000 So you're saying they have an unfair advantage?

00:15:03.000 Yeah.

00:15:04.000 Yes.

00:15:04.000 Okay.

00:15:04.000 So what I'm saying, though, is so does Michael Phelps.

00:15:07.000 He is literally twice the size of any other human being.

00:15:10.000 But he is a man.

00:15:11.000 Yeah.

00:15:11.000 And he's competing against other men.

00:15:13.000 Okay.

00:15:14.000 Yes.

00:15:15.000 Whereas just that how God designed us, I know this might be new to anthropology students, that men tend to have nearly double the muscle mass, nearly 75% more of the lung capacity.

00:15:27.000 We tend to have more bone density.

00:15:29.000 We can deadlift more.

00:15:30.000 We could squat more.

00:15:31.000 We can run for the first off of what God says.

00:15:34.000 Well, no, it's nature.

00:15:35.000 No, it's nature.

00:15:36.000 But who created nature to you?

00:15:37.000 Well, again, it is God.

00:15:38.000 But I don't even need you.

00:15:40.000 We can't agree.

00:15:41.000 I don't need you to believe in God to accept nature.

00:15:44.000 Nature is that men, based on using our own self-evident human reason, men tend to be stronger.

00:15:51.000 Men tend to be faster.

00:15:53.000 Men tend to be more physically equipped for sports than biological women. 1.00

00:15:57.000 You can agree with that.

00:15:59.000 Yes.

00:16:04.000 It depends on each individual who's playing in sports.

00:16:06.000 We might just not agree in terms of the game.

00:16:08.000 Just to give you an example, like even the best tennis players, one of the Williams sisters, Venus and Serena Williams, they were not even able to compete up against like college tennis players.

00:16:20.000 They were not even able to compete against the hundredth best male.

00:16:22.000 I mean, it is such a category difference that, like, I would posit this.

00:16:27.000 I would say that the state champion of Idaho high school boys basketball would be able to beat Caitlin Clark one-on-one.

00:16:35.000 I actually think the best basketball player in Idaho would be the bet.

00:16:40.000 No, it actually is that the best high school basketball players in the country can beat the best WNBA players.

00:16:46.000 And it's not even just my conjecture, my speculation.

00:16:49.000 It's a fact.

00:16:50.000 Has that happened?

00:16:51.000 Well, I would love to see.

00:16:52.000 I don't, Caitlin Clark, if she's willing to do it, go ahead and step up.

00:16:55.000 We do know, however, that high school sophomore basketball teams actually are able to compete up against very good women's basketball teams.

00:17:04.000 Like, that's about the level of difference, about a seven-year gap in the sophistication.

00:17:10.000 And I just, are we debating this?

00:17:12.000 I mean, is this really something that's up for debate that men are like exponentially better at competitive sports than women?

00:17:19.000 No, I would not say that because women are excellent at sports. 1.00

00:17:22.000 Against other women. 0.97

00:17:22.000 The way you said that sentence is harmful because I know what you're saying, but you're saying men are exponentially better at sports than women. 0.97

00:17:29.000 That's not that.

00:17:30.000 There are excellent, excellent women who can out-compete men.

00:17:33.000 Okay, but again, at the Pareto principle, so at the 1%, right?

00:17:39.000 Can you show me a single woman, a biological woman on the planet that can get within 150 pounds of the world record of the deadlift, the bench press, or squat? 0.81

00:17:48.000 Can you show me like a single woman that has ever lived that could finish in the top 15th of Olympic weightlifting?

00:17:54.000 I don't know anything about that.

00:17:55.000 No, it does not think about it.

00:17:56.000 They can't, right?

00:17:57.000 If you look at the women's weightlifting records and you look at the males' weightlifting records, there's almost like a 40% difference of what the weight they're actually lifting.

00:18:05.000 You look at the fastest mile ever run by a woman, the fastest mile ever run by a man. 0.72

00:18:09.000 It's nearly like a minute difference.

00:18:10.000 I mean, the differences are so dramatic and it's nothing against women. 1.00

00:18:14.000 It's nature.

00:18:15.000 And what the transgender movement does at its core is it is a war on nature. 1.00

00:18:19.000 And we as conservatives accept nature because we think nature is beautiful and we respect it and understand it and don't wish to wage a war on it.

00:18:27.000 Thank you for your time today.

00:18:28.000 Okay, thank you for your time.

00:18:32.000 A new Hillsdale College miniseries on colonial America offers a fresh way to think about Thanksgiving.

00:18:38.000 Beyond the food and the political debates, it reminds us what we should be truly thankful for: our freedom, our prosperity, and our faith.

00:18:46.000 In a brand new six-part documentary series, Hillsdale College professors will teach you the religious, the political, cultural, and economic ideas that shaped a uniquely American culture during the colonial period.

00:18:58.000 This Hillsdale course will focus on the forging of the American character that made the revolution possible and why it's more important than ever to remember and reclaim that character today.

00:19:08.000 This Hillsdale College miniseries is completely free and it's easy to access.

00:19:13.000 Plus, Hillsdale offers more than 40 other free online courses.

00:19:17.000 Go right now to charlieforhillsdale.com to enroll.

00:19:20.000 There's no cost and it's easy to get started.

00:19:22.000 That's charlie4hillsdale.com to register.

00:19:26.000 C-H-A-R-L-I-E-F-O-R for Hillsdale.com.

00:19:33.000 Hey, Charlie.

00:19:34.000 Hi, are you going to fight me too?

00:19:35.000 Maybe.

00:19:36.000 No, okay.

00:19:36.000 Would you like a photo?

00:19:38.000 Can I get a photo with you real quick?

00:19:39.000 I don't know.

00:19:40.000 It depends.

00:19:40.000 Why don't you ask your question first?

00:19:41.000 All right.

00:19:42.000 Wait, why don't you want the photo with me?

00:19:45.000 Answer your question first.

00:19:46.000 All right.

00:19:47.000 So I am a pro-transgender, pro-LGBTQ.

00:19:51.000 My question is, what is your issue with those people living their life?

00:19:58.000 I think I've answered this adequately.

00:20:00.000 Can you tell me what a woman is? 1.00

00:20:02.000 What is a woman? 1.00

00:20:03.000 It's a.

00:20:05.000 It's a what?

00:20:09.000 What is a woman? 1.00

00:20:12.000 It's a person who believes they're a woman. 0.99

00:20:14.000 No, but that's not a definition.

00:20:16.000 That's like saying a pen is a think, a thing that thinks it's a pen.

00:20:20.000 What objectively is a woman? 1.00

00:20:22.000 It's a woman.

00:20:23.000 No, what is that?

00:20:24.000 A woman.

00:20:24.000 Give me a definition.

00:20:26.000 Just anyone who believes they're a woman. 1.00

00:20:28.000 No, but what is that?

00:20:29.000 That's circular reasoning.

00:20:31.000 What attributes?

00:20:32.000 What characteristics?

00:20:33.000 A human being that believes they're a woman. 0.98

00:20:35.000 What is a woman? 1.00

00:20:36.000 I'm answering your question.

00:20:37.000 No, you're not.

00:20:38.000 You cannot answer the word without using the word woman. 0.98

00:20:42.000 It's a person that believes and identifies with what a woman is.

00:20:46.000 No, answer the question without using the word woman. 0.99

00:20:49.000 No, without using the word woman. 0.77

00:20:52.000 Answer the question without using the word woman. 0.98

00:20:54.000 All right.

00:20:55.000 What is your problem with transgender people?

00:20:58.000 Answer the question without using the word woman. 0.98

00:21:00.000 What's wrong with them?

00:21:02.000 I'm not even saying that's wrong.

00:21:04.000 If you can't answer the question, it's rather revealing.

00:21:06.000 Actually, I don't hate them.

00:21:07.000 I love them so much, I don't want them to be living under affliction or delusion or self-butchery.

00:21:11.000 It's a delusion.

00:21:11.000 It is a delusion.

00:21:13.000 Transgender people have existed for centuries.

00:21:16.000 No doubt that people with mental afflictions have existed for quite some time.

00:21:20.000 But no, but many cultures.

00:21:24.000 Can you tell me why?

00:21:25.000 Trans and non-binary people?

00:21:27.000 What is a woman without using the word woman in the answer? 1.00

00:21:40.000 It's just a per...

00:21:44.000 Can you...

00:21:45.000 Can you answer that question or no?

00:21:46.000 It's just a person who believes they're a woman. 1.00

00:21:48.000 I mean, what's wrong with that?

00:21:52.000 You can't use the word woman in your answer.

00:21:56.000 Well, yeah, it just thinks it's a cat.

00:21:59.000 We good?

00:22:03.000 Okay, what is your contention?

00:22:05.000 I think you spread a lot of hate towards transgender people, towards LGBTQ people.

00:22:11.000 And I just like, why do you do that?

00:22:14.000 Give me an example.

00:22:15.000 Like you're saying that trans people aren't real, and that's a mental delusion.

00:22:19.000 No, no, they're human beings, but they're suffering under a mental affliction.

00:22:23.000 It's not a mental affliction.

00:22:26.000 If it's not a mental affliction, why do they have to see a psychologist?

00:22:29.000 So they can get hormones or like, you know. 0.98

00:22:31.000 Oh, but if there's nothing wrong with them, why do they need hormones? 1.00

00:22:37.000 Well, they need permission, especially if they're underage, but like they don't need it if they're like overage.

00:22:43.000 Should men be able to compete in female sports? 0.94

00:22:49.000 There are a lot of like non-gendered sports that men and women compete together.

00:22:54.000 Like what?

00:22:55.000 I don't know, do like bowling and like pooling.

00:22:57.000 No, those are usually sex separate.

00:23:00.000 But you know, in chess, we have sex separate categories as well.

00:23:04.000 Not really.

00:23:05.000 No, we don't.

00:23:06.000 We have sex separate categories for international chess competitions.

00:23:09.000 I guess that's the question.

00:23:11.000 Very simple.

00:23:12.000 The inability to answer the most fundamental obvious biological question, what is a woman?

00:23:16.000 This is not troubling.

00:23:17.000 Like, it's so simple, it's so obvious.

00:23:20.000 And I guess the question is, when is womanhood then achieved?

00:23:23.000 Just like for that, whenever they decide.

00:23:26.000 I mean, like, what is your problem with, like, art?

00:23:36.000 What is your problem with, like, gay people?

00:23:39.000 I have no problem with.

00:23:40.000 I have no problem with anybody.

00:23:42.000 Yeah, you do.

00:23:43.000 You sped a lot of hatred, like, you know, misinformation about them.

00:23:48.000 Again, you have to be more specific.

00:23:50.000 What do you mean by hatred?

00:23:52.000 You call them a mental dislusion, but like it's not.

00:23:55.000 It is.

00:23:57.000 When you think you are something, you are not.

00:23:58.000 You're suffering from a mental delusion.

00:24:00.000 But they are.

00:24:02.000 Prove it.

00:24:03.000 Well, a lot of transgender people's brains are similar to the gender that they think that they are. 0.93

00:24:09.000 That they like.

00:24:12.000 Okay.

00:24:14.000 Well, I think we've been through this topic thoroughly, right?

00:24:17.000 Can we at least agree that kids should not receive gender affirming care?

00:24:23.000 Well, I think they should like go see someone so that they may go through the problem.

00:24:27.000 No, we share with like home.

00:24:28.000 But when you see somebody, should the goal be to affirm their gender dysphoria or to get them back in alignment with how they were biologically born?

00:24:37.000 To affirm their gender to see. 0.92

00:24:39.000 Yeah, again, we're on different planets.

00:24:41.000 We believe that doctors are there to heal, not to affirm.

00:24:43.000 Yeah, it is healing them.

00:24:44.000 No, healing.

00:24:45.000 It's helping them.

00:24:46.000 Okay, affirming a lie is never healing.

00:24:48.000 You don't go to a doctor.

00:24:48.000 It's a lie.

00:24:50.000 Okay, if it's not a lie, then where's the proof?

00:24:53.000 Transgender people have existed way before.

00:24:55.000 I mean, there is proof of that.

00:24:57.000 And they've been like, and many people have existed as transgender people and have lived happy, healthy lives.

00:25:05.000 Last chance.

00:25:06.000 Can you tell me what a woman is? 1.00

00:25:11.000 Are you a woman?

00:25:20.000 Why are you so hateful?

00:25:29.000 I asked you what a woman was. 1.00

00:25:30.000 That's not hateful.

00:25:31.000 I gave you the definition.

00:25:36.000 Thank you for your time.

00:25:43.000 Look, I know there are a lot of choices when it comes to who you choose for your cell phone service.

00:25:48.000 There are new ones popping up all the time.

00:25:50.000 But the truth is, there's only one that boldly stands in the gap for every American that believes that freedom is worth fighting for.

00:25:56.000 And that is Patriot Mobile.

00:25:58.000 For more than 12 years, Patriot Mobile has been on the front lines fighting for our God-given rights of freedom while also providing exceptional nationwide cell phone service with access to all three of the main networks.

00:26:09.000 Don't just take my word for it.

00:26:10.000 Ask the hundreds of thousands of Americans who've made the switch and are now supporting causes they believe in simply by switching to Patriot Mobile.

00:26:18.000 It's easier than it's ever been.

00:26:19.000 Activate in minutes from the comfort of your own home.

00:26:21.000 Keep your number, keep your phone, or upgrade.

00:26:23.000 Patriot Mobile's all-U.S.-based support team is standing by to take care of you.

00:26:28.000 Charlie and Glenn over at Patriot Mobile, dear, dear friends.

00:26:31.000 So I'll give the last word to Charlie.

00:26:33.000 Call 972Patriot today or go to patriotmobile.com slash Charlie.

00:26:37.000 Use promo code Charlie for a free month of service.

00:26:39.000 That's patriotmobile.com slash Charlie or call 972Patriot and make the switch today.

00:26:47.000 Next question.

00:26:47.000 Yes.

00:26:49.000 Hi, Charlie.

00:26:49.000 How are you?

00:26:50.000 Um, okay. Um.

00:26:59.000 My question, I am not here to try to argue about moral beliefs or anything like that.

00:27:06.000 I am here to talk about the reasoning behind enforcing laws onto people, specifically transgender people. 0.98

00:27:11.000 Whether or not, don't ask me what my definition of a woman is. 1.00

00:27:15.000 Like you've asked every single other person who has talked about it.

00:27:17.000 I am not talking about whether or not their identities are valid because I don't think we will come to an agreement there.

00:27:22.000 I'm talking about the reasoning behind enforcing federal laws on these people, to not allow them to use a bathroom, to not allow them to dress the way they want to dress in public, to give our law enforcement the ability to...

00:27:40.000 I am actually blind.

00:27:41.000 Thank you for asking.

00:27:42.000 Not fully blind.

00:27:43.000 Educate yourselves.

00:27:45.000 Anyways, that's what I'm asking.

00:27:47.000 The reasoning behind why you feel the need to enforce laws onto these people and not allow them to express themselves regardless of their identity.

00:27:56.000 Should 14-year-olds be able to get tattoos?

00:27:59.000 I also have to say that.

00:28:00.000 You have a beautiful tattoo right there.

00:28:01.000 Should a 14-year-old be able to get a tattoo?

00:28:04.000 I think that's between them and their parents.

00:28:06.000 They can get tattoos if they get their parents' consent there.

00:28:08.000 I don't think it's any of my business if they should or not.

00:28:11.000 I think that's what they're doing.

00:28:12.000 Should a 14-year-old be able to drink or have hard vodka?

00:28:16.000 That's also between them and their parents.

00:28:18.000 If they're occasionally drinking in the evenings with their parents, keeping them safe, is that not better than restricting them till they're 21 and then they go out partying for the first time?

00:28:28.000 They get an alcohol poisoning or something?

00:28:31.000 I think it is, I think that's between them and their parents.

00:28:33.000 So you would get rid of all those laws.

00:28:35.000 Get rid of all the drinking laws.

00:28:36.000 Get rid of the tattoo protection laws.

00:28:38.000 Just get rid of those.

00:28:43.000 Honestly, probably.

00:28:45.000 But I understand why those laws exist.

00:28:49.000 But I do think ultimately that these laws exist, but also the law states that that's also between the child and their parents.

00:28:55.000 Yes.

00:28:55.000 Do you believe in, let's just put it this way, like anti-peeping tom laws?

00:28:59.000 Should men be able to go up to windows of women and watch them undress? 0.99

00:29:03.000 I want to ask you how that relates to.

00:29:05.000 No, it does.

00:29:05.000 It actually is directly related.

00:29:07.000 Do you believe that there should be a law against men going up to windows to watch women undressing?

00:29:11.000 Yes, of course I do.

00:29:12.000 why is it okay for a man to legally walk into a woman's locker room? 0.99

00:29:25.000 My question is.

00:29:26.000 Well, hold on.

00:29:26.000 No, it's illegal to look through a window at a woman undress.

00:29:29.000 Why should it be legal to walk into a locker room to watch women undress? 1.00

00:29:32.000 Well, that's assuming that they are going in there to watch women undress when they are actually going in there for a space for them to undress themselves in a space where they feel comfortable. 0.59

00:29:42.000 Why can't they do that in the sex that was on their birth certificate?

00:29:46.000 Why can't they undress alongside other men if they're a man? 0.89

00:29:50.000 They could put a dress on in that locker room, but they're just around other men.

00:29:54.000 Why do you want them to so bad?

00:29:56.000 Well, because I think women should be protected from perverts. 0.88

00:30:00.000 I think it is really naive and small-minded.

00:30:03.000 No, no, but no, hold on.

00:30:04.000 Somewhere deep down, you agree with me.

00:30:05.000 You don't think it's right for people to peep in the windows.

00:30:08.000 I don't agree with perverts and allow them to be aware of.

00:30:10.000 Well, I know, but that's what you got it.

00:30:12.000 So that's the point is that if you are a biological man who thinks you're a woman, you necessitate, you all of a sudden are in the category of perversion when you want to go undress and unrobe around women in locker rooms, and you are not going to protect yourself.

00:30:26.000 I think that kind of depends on your definition of perversion because assuming that all transgender women are perverts is a serious thing.

00:30:35.000 Honestly, a lot of them are.

00:30:37.000 A lot of them suffer from some of the things.

00:30:39.000 How many trans women have you met and talked to and do you know?

00:30:41.000 Well, if you mean by trans women, you mean men who think they're women?

00:30:44.000 Actually, I met Bruce Jenner, really nice person.

00:30:46.000 I learned a lot from him.

00:30:47.000 And so, but yeah, it's autogynophilia.

00:30:49.000 These are guys that get off sexually, but for dressing like women. 0.93

00:30:53.000 You're not right, but that's factually not true.

00:30:55.000 Do you know what autogynophilia is?

00:30:58.000 Yeah, you don't.

00:30:58.000 So don't interrupt me.

00:30:59.000 You just described it as getting off.

00:31:01.000 Yeah, so autogynophilia is the sex.

00:31:04.000 Autogynophilia is the sexual pleasure that one gets.

00:31:07.000 It's the fetish of dressing like women and being around other women that are naked, right? 0.69

00:31:11.000 So a lot of men that are transgender are actually suffering from autogynophilia because they have a sexual fetish of dressing and dressing.

00:31:17.000 Do you have a statistic there?

00:31:18.000 Do you know how many trans women are unfortunately this hasn't been radically studied because our scientific literature has been very corrupted by the trans industry? 1.00

00:31:26.000 But there's a lot of evidence to show autogynophilia is the baseline of a lot of the transgenderism. 0.93

00:31:30.000 But I just want to make sure that we have a baseline agreement.

00:31:33.000 Like, what is to prevent a regular guy on the campus of Boise State say that I'm a girl and he just walks into the girl's locker room?

00:31:40.000 At what point are you okay with them walking in the locker room?

00:31:43.000 What do they have to do to satisfy you to be able to get, to be allowed into the women's locker room? 1.00

00:31:48.000 Not be perverts or not going in there to be a person.

00:31:52.000 How do you know?

00:31:54.000 If all of a sudden one of these guys, you know, all of a sudden put on a dress, put on a wig, and just walked into the locker room with the full intent to watch women undress, which unfortunately is a lot of perverts.

00:32:05.000 Are you okay with that?

00:32:06.000 How do you know they're not a pervert?

00:32:07.000 I am not okay with someone walking into a bathroom or a locker room with the intent of watching women undress. 1.00

00:32:12.000 But the baseline disagreement, the misunderstanding, and we can't actually.

00:32:16.000 We don't know all the intent.

00:32:17.000 The point is that we keep men and women separate because a lot of men want to see naked women.

00:32:21.000 So we don't allow them in locker room.

00:32:22.000 Here's my question for you.

00:32:23.000 There are a lot of transgender men assigned female at birth who quite honestly look more masculine and more like a man than you do. 0.91

00:32:31.000 Do you really want them in the women's men? 0.98

00:32:34.000 So that's an interesting thing.

00:32:36.000 So I won't even take that as a, you know, an attack.

00:32:39.000 What does a, what is a man?

00:32:41.000 Because you just used a grading scale of more masculine, less masculine.

00:32:45.000 So instead of what is a woman, what is a man? 0.68

00:32:49.000 You said someone was more masculine than me.

00:32:51.000 So what is like ultra man?

00:32:53.000 What does that look like?

00:32:54.000 10 out of 10 man.

00:32:56.000 What is that?

00:32:56.000 10 out of 10 man.

00:32:58.000 You just said someone is more masculine looking than me.

00:33:00.000 So tell me what that means.

00:33:03.000 Tell you what more masculine man than you looks like.

00:33:06.000 A square jaw, larger muscles, a large beard, or like the mask, typical masculine features.

00:33:12.000 There are plenty of transgender men who are very, very masculine, very, very male-presenting. 1.00

00:33:19.000 You wouldn't know they were trans if you saw them in public.

00:33:22.000 You want them in your wife's and your daughter's bathrooms. 1.00

00:33:26.000 That's what you're saying.

00:33:27.000 Yes, I mean, of course.

00:33:28.000 I mean, I don't want them in my locker room.

00:33:31.000 They should go to the sex that is on their birth certificate, of course. 1.00

00:33:34.000 And the point being is that just because you have a good costume does not mean you are the person that you seek to be.

00:33:42.000 If you dress as Lawrence of Arabia, you don't become an Arab sheikh. 1.00

00:33:47.000 If you dress as Julius Caesar, you're not in control of the Roman Empire.

00:33:50.000 Your costume does not dictate your reality.

00:33:53.000 And just because someone might look more masculine than I am, fine, whatever, because they have testosterone being pumped through them at every time, artificially, that doesn't make them a man.

00:34:02.000 But again, so why is it that we want to legislate things?

00:34:05.000 Well, we have a fundamental thing that women should be protected. 1.00

00:34:07.000 I know that's like a crazy concept for the trans lobby, but women should be protected from having to change next to men, having to look at male penises without their permission. 0.99

00:34:16.000 They should not have to have perverts come into their locker room. 1.00

00:34:19.000 They should not have their trophies stolen from them.

00:34:21.000 They should not have their rewards stolen from them, all as an outgrowth of the transgender movement. 1.00

00:34:29.000 I think there are a lot of contradictions in your argument.

00:34:32.000 I think like if you think about, for instance, how there are plenty of grown male pedophiles, male gay pedophiles, you're allowing them, you don't know their, every man's intent when they're walking into the bathroom with your son. 0.58

00:34:49.000 There are plenty of stories of sexual assault against men in male bathrooms by other men.

00:34:54.000 So how are you avoiding more perversion by like you don't know the intent of anyone who walks into a bathroom or whatever?

00:35:02.000 I want to ask the women of this. 0.71

00:35:04.000 Let me ask you a question.

00:35:05.000 Yeah, I'm a woman.

00:35:06.000 You're in a female locker room and you see just a man totally undress, penis and all. 0.99

00:35:12.000 Are you comfortable with that around that?

00:35:14.000 And he's looking at you when you undress.

00:35:15.000 Are you comfortable with that?

00:35:18.000 I personally, because of just how I am, I'm not usually comfortable seeing anyone fully undress in front of me.

00:35:25.000 I don't spend a lot of time in locker rooms.

00:35:28.000 Okay, but if all it but does it not make I feel safe with their presence and if they are not being weird and staring at other women while they are undressing and doing that, then no, I don't give a crap if they have a penis and I have to say that.

00:35:44.000 And I'm just curious, do the women in this audience, are you okay undressing around biological women? 0.98

00:35:51.000 And again, that's where we are heading.

00:35:52.000 We are heading towards this inevitable conclusion where any pervert for any reason can walk into a female-only space and they can be, they can look at you guys when you undress. 0.89

00:36:02.000 This is happening in Deerfield High School right now in the suburbs of Chicago.

00:36:06.000 There is a trans woman, so a biological man, who is granted access into the seventh grade locker room.

00:36:13.000 He masturbates in front of all the women. 0.71

00:36:15.000 It's well on record.

00:36:16.000 The girls complained and said, we don't like this. 1.00

00:36:19.000 They got in trouble.

00:36:20.000 They got punished for not being accepting of trans people.

00:36:23.000 It's a real example.

00:36:24.000 They got graded down and the man then makes fun of all of them saying, I'm getting off in front of all you guys.

00:36:29.000 I have special rights because I'm trans.

00:36:31.000 That's where your movement is.

00:36:33.000 That's what you are defending.

00:36:36.000 Do you think there is any way for us to have the conversation?

00:36:39.000 I just gave you a real example.

00:36:41.000 You gave me one real example.

00:36:42.000 And I have hundreds.

00:36:43.000 I have hundreds in Wabatosa, Wisconsin, or in Morristown, New Jersey.

00:36:47.000 I have hundreds in Richmond, Virginia, in Loudoun County, Virginia, in Boca Raton, Florida.

00:36:52.000 We have hundreds of these examples pouring in where all of a sudden when we start to break down the sex differences of how we are made and how we are designed, all of a sudden, the idea of protecting women goes out the window.

00:37:04.000 And I find it so ironic to bring it full circle, not with you.

00:37:07.000 Like, hey, Charlie, don't you care about protecting women with the rape statistics?

00:37:10.000 I'm like the greatest defender of women out there when I don't think. 0.99

00:37:13.000 I'm the greatest defender of women out there.

00:37:15.000 Yes, far so more than anyone on the left, where they're okay with over 890 medals and trophies that were stolen from women that biological men got under the transgender guys, that they remain silent when these creeps go into these locker rooms next to these women, like, oh, well, that's transgender progress. 0.80

00:37:32.000 And so I don't even know what to say at some point.

00:37:35.000 Well, there's actually no way to continue the conversation because there's the baseline misunderstanding that all transgender people are perverts.

00:37:43.000 And I want to say that.

00:37:44.000 I never said they're all perverts.

00:37:45.000 I said that there are people.

00:37:46.000 You are saying that there are a lot that are perverted.

00:37:48.000 They suffer from auto-gynophilia.

00:37:50.000 But even if they are not perverted, even if they're not perverts, like female comfort and safety is a beautiful thing that we believe in the biblical Western construct that women must be protected.

00:38:01.000 We as men primarily go to war and we fight to protect women.

00:38:05.000 That is how the West was won and the West continues to advance.

00:38:07.000 We protect women.

00:38:08.000 And if we're not going to say like this is a special female space away from the potentiality of perversion, then we're not doing our job of men as protecting them. 0.99

00:38:17.000 And it's just amazing how many women like yourself are like, come on in, men, no problem. 0.99

00:38:22.000 As long as you dress like us, I'm perfectly fine.

00:38:25.000 And that is the, that is the ultimate, like, that is the pinnacle of degenerative feminism. 0.99

00:38:30.000 Once again, there is no way to continue the conversation when you have the belief that there are so many.

00:38:35.000 I am about to leave.

00:38:36.000 Calm down, people.

00:38:38.000 I want to say that I would like to encourage everyone here to go out and have actual conversations with trans people.

00:38:44.000 Transgender women.

00:38:45.000 Have a conversation with them and tell me that you felt like they were perverts.

00:38:49.000 I never said they were all perverts.

00:38:51.000 I said they're suffering from mental delusion.

00:38:53.000 And we must have a hard and fast rule.

00:38:55.000 You are not allowed in a space that your chromosomes do not align.

00:38:58.000 People are not going to be able to do that.

00:38:58.000 I would like to say that your argument that it's a mental delusion because they need psychiatrists.

00:39:03.000 Well, that's one of many.

00:39:04.000 But I mean, it's so it's someone who thinks they're a wolf, do they have a mental delusion?

00:39:09.000 If someone believes they're a wolf, I don't see how that is inaccurate.

00:39:13.000 Because they believe something that is not objectively true.

00:39:17.000 Realistically, gender expression, like a person's gender is more about how society views them and how society is.

00:39:25.000 Gender does not exist. 1.00

00:39:26.000 We've been through this the whole time.

00:39:27.000 Gonna say gender does not exist and then insists that there are only two ways to express gender, two sexes.

00:39:34.000 No no, there's infinite personalities.

00:39:36.000 There are tomb.

00:39:36.000 By the way, have you noticed about the disappearance of like tomboy girls?

00:39:40.000 Do you remember tomboy girls that? 0.99

00:39:42.000 Actually, I think you know why.

00:39:44.000 Because now they all become like trans men and we lose them, where tomboy girls used to go through a little masculine phase when they're 14 15, and then they grew out of it. 1.00

00:39:52.000 Praise god, because you went through puberty.

00:39:54.000 You have different cycles and ups and downs and valleys and troughs and peaks and pinnacles, and so you go up and down throughout puberty and you shouldn't intercept somebody at puberty when they all of a sudden are feeling something that is not biologically correct.

00:40:06.000 I'm running out of time.

00:40:07.000 Thank you very much, yeah.

The Charlie Kirk Show - November 22, 2025

Debates From the Archive - Charlie on the Trans Debate

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript