The Charlie Kirk Show - Do You Really Need College to Succeed?

00:00:03.000 My name is Charlie Kirk.

00:00:05.000 I run the largest pro-American student organization in the country fighting for the future of our republic.

00:00:11.000 My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth.

00:00:14.000 If the most important thing for you is just feeling good, you're going to end up miserable.

00:00:19.000 But if the most important thing is doing good, you will end up purposeful.

00:00:24.000 College is a scam, everybody.

00:00:26.000 You've got to stop sending your kids to college.

00:00:28.000 You should get married as young as possible and have as many kids as possible.

00:00:31.000 Go start a turning point USA college chapter.

00:00:33.000 Go start a turning point USA high school chapter.

00:00:35.000 Go find out how your church can get involved.

00:00:37.000 Sign up and become an activist.

00:00:38.000 I gave my life to the Lord in fifth grade.

00:00:41.000 Most important decision I ever made in my life.

00:00:43.000 And I encourage you to do the same.

00:00:45.000 Here I am.

00:00:46.000 Lord, use me.

00:00:48.000 Buckle up, everybody.

00:00:49.000 Here we go.

00:00:56.000 Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of The Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals.

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00:01:12.000 That is NobleGoldInvestments.com.

00:01:17.000 I'm going to keep it short and sweet.

00:01:19.000 I'm just curious about your stance on college as a scam because I feel like, according to the Hamilton Institute, people who get bachelor's degrees over a total lifetime earnings will earn over $1 million more than those who don't.

00:01:31.000 And also, I feel like college is an important place for people to go, learn valuable life lessons, and also, It's good to have a balanced society because then you're going to get artists, you're also going to get architectures, you're going to get engineers, you're going to get all sorts of different people that we need in society.

00:01:43.000 Because what's the point in living if we don't have writers or artists?

00:01:47.000 So I just want to get your take on that.

00:01:49.000 The question is Do the best writers learn to write in college?

00:01:52.000 Probably not.

00:01:52.000 No.

00:01:53.000 The best writers are gifted writing and they learn to write by writing.

00:01:56.000 And I would just argue that this kind of holistic view you get, for example, what are you studying?

00:02:01.000 Can I ask?

00:02:02.000 Economics.

00:02:02.000 Okay.

00:02:03.000 So what do you think of Thomas Sowell?

00:02:05.000 I actually really like him.

00:02:06.000 I bought his book, Basic Economics.

00:02:08.000 He's one of the first economists I've ever seen.

00:02:10.000 Do they teach it here?

00:02:11.000 Not yet, but also I've learned this before.

00:02:12.000 Okay, so now you're proving my point.

00:02:13.000 If you're studying economics and they're not teaching Thomas Sowell, you're not getting an education, you're getting an indoctrination.

00:02:19.000 And you're being scammed.

00:02:20.000 Okay.

00:02:21.000 Milton Friedman.

00:02:21.000 Do they teach Milton Friedman here?

00:02:22.000 No, but I'm aware of him.

00:02:23.000 Okay.

00:02:24.000 Ludwig von Mises.

00:02:25.000 I'm aware of him, but no.

00:02:26.000 Murray Rothbard.

00:02:27.000 Hold on.

00:02:28.000 No.

00:02:28.000 F. A. Hayek.

00:02:29.000 No.

00:02:29.000 Frederick Bastiat.

00:02:31.000 No.

00:02:32.000 You're not getting economics education, you're getting an indoctrination.

00:02:36.000 You should know everything.

00:02:37.000 It's not your fault.

00:02:38.000 But what you're paying for or going into debt for is not a real economic education.

00:02:41.000 Those are the people that theorized about free markets, which is a legitimate school of thinking, monetarism, private property rights.

00:02:48.000 And the fact that you, and not, I'm not criticizing you, I'm criticizing the institution that's failing you, that you don't know what these people believe and you're not being taught that rigorously, proves my point that college is a scam.

00:02:59.000 Yeah, but again, I've only been here like a semester and a half.

00:03:02.000 So, but what, do you know who John Maynard Keynes is?

00:03:05.000 Heard of him.

00:03:06.000 I actually did read about him a little bit.

00:03:08.000 Okay, so you read about John Maynard Keynes, but you weren't.

00:03:11.000 Yeah, in class.

00:03:12.000 11th of class.

00:03:13.000 Right.

00:03:13.000 So that's my point is that they'll teach you Keynes, but they won't teach you one out of the seven people that I mentioned Bastiat, Hayek, von Mises, Rothbard, Sowell, or Friedman.

00:03:22.000 And that proves my point, which is that it's all demand side.

00:03:26.000 It's all one picture of an economic argument that is not the complete picture of what.

00:03:33.000 Now, maybe later on you'll get a supply side economics teacher here, but this idea that you go to college to kind of get your worldview liberated, yet you get your worldview altered.

00:03:43.000 To be perfectly honest.

00:03:44.000 Secondly, to your point of earnings over a period of time, it matters completely and solely on what you study.

00:03:50.000 If you study the liberal arts, even after 10 years, a study came out yesterday 16 lowest paid majors happen to be some of the highest majors that people actually go and study, which is liberal arts, sociology.

00:04:00.000 God bless people that do that stuff, I suppose.

00:04:03.000 But you're also filled with all of the woke rubbish that is infecting our society. 0.95

00:04:07.000 All right. 0.97

00:04:08.000 I just want to talk to you about that book.

00:04:10.000 It was a good segue.

00:04:11.000 Did you read it?

00:04:12.000 No.

00:04:12.000 But I want your thoughts, like face to face.

00:04:15.000 Why do you think college is a scam?

00:04:17.000 So, half of this audience, if you get a job, will get a job that doesn't require a college degree.

00:04:23.000 41% of kids that enter college will not graduate.

00:04:26.000 And the vast majority of kids, 60 to 70%, that go to college, I believe study things that are completely worthless, meaningless, and don't enrich society at all.

00:04:35.000 But is that the fault of the student or the college?

00:04:39.000 Because I looked in the stats for this.

00:04:41.000 It's usually because they either don't have the finances to support themselves going to college, they have mental health problems that lead them to dropping out, or stress, or their family's not supporting them.

00:04:51.000 So is that the fault of college that they pick bad degrees?

00:04:53.000 Is that the fault of the college?

00:04:55.000 That they can't support themselves, right?

00:04:56.000 It's like getting a gym membership and then saying, well, you know, I don't want to actually go work out.

00:05:01.000 It's the fault of the gym.

00:05:03.000 So, a good question.

00:05:04.000 So, first, the 41% of kids that drop out, the federal government will fully underwrite any four year college through FAFSA.

00:05:13.000 You know that, through a student loan.

00:05:15.000 Meaning, so if anyone has financial difficulty, that's not really a thing.

00:05:18.000 The federal government will fully grant you your loan to any four year university, right?

00:05:22.000 So, you might not want to take on that student loan burden.

00:05:26.000 You might not want to take that on, but that's number one.

00:05:27.000 Number two, I can't speak to the mental health issues.

00:05:30.000 I doubt that 41% of the kids that graduate in that number all have mental health issues, but maybe that's the case.

00:05:36.000 I'm not sure.

00:05:37.000 I don't know that number.

00:05:38.000 But let's talk about the institution itself.

00:05:40.000 So, everyone in the audience here, how many of you have had to take classes that are a waste of time that you wish you didn't have to take, that are a waste of money, and that every single hand goes up?

00:05:48.000 Look around.

00:05:50.000 Look around.

00:05:51.000 They're scamming every kid in this audience.

00:05:54.000 They are forcing them to take classes that make them poorer, that take up their time.

00:05:59.000 In order to get the credential, that is an institutional scam.

00:06:05.000 And by the way, every other part of life is all about your own customization.

00:06:10.000 Your Netflix account, how you get your burrito bowl, from how you dress, your Amazon cart is you are in charge.

00:06:16.000 But you come to college and they say you must go take these three, four, five classes that are very expensive, especially for you out of state students, to go further into debt, study things that don't matter, to find jobs that don't exist.

00:06:28.000 That sounds like a scam.

00:06:31.000 At least in my personal experience, right?

00:06:33.000 Like maybe some colleges, I would say.

00:06:36.000 What are you studying?

00:06:36.000 I'm studying economics.

00:06:38.000 Great, okay.

00:06:39.000 And what I would say is that I have a great levity in choices of classes I want to take, even if there's a bunch of general education classes, I have a great flexibility in the class I want to take.

00:06:50.000 It's up to the student if they want to take meaningless classes given their credit limit.

00:06:59.000 Okay, but I mean, I would just speculate that this school still has specific criteria of classes, right?

00:07:04.000 Am I correct?

00:07:06.000 Yeah, you have to take a diversity class. 0.98

00:07:08.000 That sounds like a scam.

00:07:11.000 They are robbing you to take a diversity class.

00:07:14.000 It's actually not what you typically think.

00:07:15.000 I think it's.

00:07:16.000 I mean, I'm taking.

00:07:17.000 Is it true?

00:07:18.000 Do you guys have to take a diversity class?

00:07:19.000 No, no. 1.00

00:07:20.000 This is true.

00:07:21.000 This is true.

00:07:21.000 All right, so that's a scam.

00:07:22.000 Like, let's be clear diversity class scam. 1.00

00:07:24.000 Can you define what a scam is? 0.86

00:07:26.000 When you are getting ripped off with your money, your time, your resources, either beyond what is a market rate.

00:07:35.000 Or against your will.

00:07:36.000 So I'll give you an example.

00:07:38.000 If you guys want to fly to New York and Spirit Airlines says we're going to charge you $2,500 for a one way ticket, I think we all could agree flying Spirit Airlines for $2,500 is a scam.

00:07:49.000 Like, you know it when you see it.

00:07:51.000 I mean, it depends on how you view the worth of college.

00:07:54.000 Like, if you've.

00:07:57.000 The Federal Reserve for San Francisco released a newsletter discussing the actual finances behind is college actually worth it?

00:08:08.000 And they found that.

00:08:09.000 By age 40, you recoup all, at the average student, recoup all their costs.

00:08:13.000 If they graduate.

00:08:15.000 If they graduate, and even accounting for that, other economists also stayed.

00:08:21.000 No, so that's an important study.

00:08:23.000 If you take out the top 10%, that's not the case.

00:08:27.000 Top 10% of what?

00:08:28.000 Top 10% of graduates and income earners.

00:08:30.000 So the top 10% end up flourishing with a college degree, the other 90% do not.

00:08:35.000 Do you know that there are 11 million job openings in this country that pay $75,000 a year?

00:08:41.000 That requires six weeks of training, that require muscular labor or using your hands.

00:08:48.000 11 million job openings.

00:08:49.000 Now, a lot of you guys are in college because you've been pushed into college saying that you must get the piece of paper, you might get the piece of paper, when there are very good paying jobs, 11 million of them, but either your society, your parents, or your own choices are no, I wanna go to college, I wanna go after that piece of paper.

00:09:06.000 My contention is that there are way better options out there for a lot of students.

00:09:11.000 Not every student, but a lot of other students.

00:09:14.000 Charlie, I think a part of your core rhetoric, there's actually some real truth there that, like, I think a lot of people are getting really just pressure to go to college, even if they'll make poor choices.

00:09:22.000 I'm just saying that even while you're in college, you can make better choices to make yourself a better person.

00:09:27.000 I totally agree.

00:09:28.000 Do you think most people do?

00:09:32.000 I know some that are making great choices.

00:09:34.000 I know some that are making terrible choices.

00:09:35.000 So let's think about this.

00:09:36.000 Why do you think, let's just say most make terrible choices?

00:09:39.000 Would you say that's the case?

00:09:41.000 I'll give you 40 to 60.

00:09:42.000 Why do you think that is?

00:09:43.000 Maybe because the institution incentivizes bad choices.

00:09:46.000 It's easy to coast and still graduate.

00:09:49.000 It's easy just to check the boxes, right?

00:09:52.000 It's not an institution designed around excellence.

00:09:55.000 It's around let's get you through the mill as quickly as possible, get the piece of paper, pay your bill.

00:10:01.000 Thank you very much.

00:10:04.000 But do you think that the culture around students going to college could change instead around their decision making?

00:10:10.000 I think we need way less kids going to college.

00:10:12.000 The institution itself is so broken, let's be clear.

00:10:14.000 Forced diversity classes, DEI, all that stuff, it's nonsense.

00:10:17.000 If it was really, college really should be closer to what Hillsdale College is, which is about wisdom, beauty, truth, goodness, not just about job preparedness.

00:10:28.000 But we've lost that completely.

00:10:31.000 If it's about doctors, lawyers, engineers, and the skills, of course.

00:10:35.000 But you know that, it's way beyond that.

00:10:37.000 I mean, people going to, I'm not to pick on you, but you're studying economics.

00:10:41.000 That's terrific.

00:10:41.000 That's a good reason to go to college.

00:10:43.000 It's not the best reason, I'll be honest, but it's a good reason, right?

00:10:46.000 I mean, economics is a serious discipline.

00:10:48.000 It's a real science.

00:10:49.000 You know, we need people really rigorously studying that.

00:10:51.000 So.

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00:11:46.000 I'd like to disagree with you about college as a scam.

00:11:49.000 Okay.

00:11:50.000 Just because there's 50% of people who you say don't need college to get a job, why would it be a scam?

00:11:56.000 There's a social impact about college, about America.

00:12:00.000 College is, you know, good.

00:12:02.000 The majority of kids that go to college when they graduate have a lower view of America than when they entered.

00:12:07.000 Do you think that's a troubling thing?

00:12:11.000 I think just changing your opinion doesn't really matter too much.

00:12:14.000 Do you think that college teaches responsibility and hard work?

00:12:19.000 Sure.

00:12:21.000 Okay, well, I find that hard to believe.

00:12:23.000 Why is it that employers are more and more not wanting to hire college graduates and they actually want to hire people that didn't go to college?

00:12:30.000 What employers?

00:12:32.000 You can name them out, man.

00:12:32.000 Walmart just got rid of their, even in their corporate level, so you don't need to go to college.

00:12:37.000 Coke Industries, one of the largest employers in the country, from Georgia Pacific Railroad to Dow Chemical, they said we no longer want kids that have gone to college.

00:12:44.000 Because they end up causing problems because they're super entitled and they're like, oh, what are my pronouns?

00:12:49.000 And they have all this left wing nonsense that they've been filled with.

00:12:51.000 Well, then you have engineers, doctors, lawyers, people that.

00:12:53.000 Sure, we need that, but that's less than 20% of the people that go to college.

00:12:56.000 Yeah, but it's going to be wrong to say college is a scam if 25% of people become great people.

00:13:01.000 No, lawyers, doctors, engineers.

00:13:03.000 That's not what college currently is, though.

00:13:05.000 Again, I'm happy to have you read the book, College is a Scam.

00:13:08.000 I wrote it.

00:13:08.000 I can have a more wordy thing, which is the vast majority of people that go to college are receiving a scam for the money that they're borrowing.

00:13:14.000 The vast majority.

00:13:16.000 Of course, there's exceptions.

00:13:17.000 You can make whatever you want with your life.

00:13:18.000 I mean, you can.

00:13:19.000 But, I mean, when you enter into an enterprise, you need to know that you are a.

00:13:22.000 But people are going to college to make more money.

00:13:25.000 How many of you guys have to take classes that are a waste of time that you wish you wouldn't have to take?

00:13:28.000 Every single hand.

00:13:28.000 You're being a scamp against your will to take classes that make you go further into debt.

00:13:33.000 Why can't you say, I don't want to take this class?

00:13:35.000 Why are you.

00:13:36.000 Why is a customer.

00:13:37.000 Can you do a differential equation?

00:13:38.000 You what?

00:13:39.000 Can you do a differential equation?

00:13:41.000 Can I do a differential equation?

00:13:42.000 Can you explain to me the anatomy of a human?

00:13:45.000 Like someone off the top of my head.

00:13:46.000 You don't know what psychology is.

00:13:47.000 Yes, I do know what psychology is.

00:13:48.000 But can you explain it to me?

00:13:50.000 Do you want me to explain psychology?

00:13:52.000 Well, you can't explain it to the depths of a bachelor's degree or a PhD.

00:13:55.000 Well, hold on a second.

00:13:56.000 Time out.

00:13:56.000 I've sat here with no notes, no phone, and debated people with PhDs and stuff.

00:14:00.000 You can't study this because it's your job.

00:14:02.000 Hold on.

00:14:02.000 I didn't go to college, man.

00:14:03.000 That's the point you can do whatever you want without a college degree.

00:14:06.000 You can listen to podcasts, read books.

00:14:08.000 You don't need to go.

00:14:09.000 Gauss wasn't able to go to the University of Gautengine.

00:14:12.000 That's literally the reason.

00:14:13.000 I can't hear what you said.

00:14:14.000 What'd you say?

00:14:14.000 You know Gauss, right?

00:14:16.000 Competition.

00:14:16.000 Yeah, vaguely, sure, okay.

00:14:18.000 Vaguely?

00:14:19.000 Yes, vaguely, yeah.

00:14:20.000 Do you know who Bill Freeman is?

00:14:21.000 Do you know who Herbert Marcuse is?

00:14:22.000 Do you know who Thomas Sowell is?

00:14:24.000 Do you use a phone?

00:14:24.000 Do you know who Gumner Morris is?

00:14:26.000 Well, that's because of Gauss.

00:14:26.000 No, you don't, so I could do gotcha too.

00:14:28.000 So far, you're trying to identify what is the reason that he was able to become so proficient in mathematics.

00:14:35.000 And change the world.

00:14:36.000 The majority of kids that go to college are more depressed than when they answer.

00:14:40.000 Are able to perform much better in their field than someone who doesn't.

00:14:44.000 Well, then, if that's the question, if that really is true, if college is this amazing accelerant.

00:14:49.000 Then why do so many.

00:14:50.000 I wouldn't say it is accelerated, but if you're looking at accelerating science, right?

00:14:53.000 Let me finish, man.

00:14:54.000 And you want to accelerate communication, you need a degree.

00:14:58.000 All right.

00:14:59.000 Let me make my point.

00:15:00.000 If that's the case, why do half of these kids end up with anywhere between $50,000 to $100,000 in debt and they end up getting a job that says, oh, sorry, you never needed the degree in the first place?

00:15:12.000 Why is that the case?

00:15:13.000 Tell me.

00:15:14.000 People on average, once going to college, make more money.

00:15:17.000 Well, that's not true.

00:15:18.000 They end up getting a job.

00:15:19.000 That is.

00:15:20.000 That's only if they graduate, and it depends on the field of study.

00:15:23.000 The average college graduate now is getting a job at $61,000 a year.

00:15:28.000 The average plumber after 18 months, $68,000 a year.

00:15:32.000 The average wellness, $72,000 a year.

00:15:36.000 The plumber didn't go to college, the plumber went to trade or technical school.

00:15:39.000 There are 11 million job openings that do not require a college degree in this country.

00:15:44.000 11 million.

00:15:45.000 I'm sorry, what?

00:15:46.000 Who engineered the stuff plumbers use?

00:15:48.000 I'm sure someone here.

00:15:49.000 I mean, it's like someone with a degree.

00:15:51.000 It's like saying who designed the airplane for the pilot to fly.

00:15:54.000 I mean, someone with a degree that went to college.

00:15:56.000 I just go to college.

00:15:57.000 I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying.

00:15:59.000 I'm not saying you get rid of all places of higher learning.

00:16:01.000 The way it's currently comprised for you guys, the amount of debt you have to go into, the classes that you have to go into.

00:16:05.000 I'm not saying you don't get rid of places of higher learning, but then you go on to ground.

00:16:08.000 I'm just saying roughly every 15 seconds.

00:16:09.000 You're not debating in good faith because it is a scam.

00:16:12.000 So let me ask you a question.

00:16:13.000 Can you point to other things of American life the last hundred years that have been scams?

00:16:17.000 For example, when someone, they run an advertisement, they say, buy these pills.

00:16:20.000 Because we're gonna make you super muscular.

00:16:23.000 And they don't have all the fine print that it might not work and you have to have a monthly subscription.

00:16:27.000 We shut down that business for being super muscular.

00:16:30.000 That's a little different though.

00:16:30.000 That's a whole lot of fun.

00:16:31.000 Hold on a second.

00:16:32.000 When you show up to college, do they tell you you have to take all these classes that you didn't sign up for?

00:16:37.000 It said that you're gonna have to take all these different classes.

00:16:39.000 Do they tell you that half of you guys would not ever use your degree when you go into your career?

00:16:43.000 How many guys knew that?

00:16:44.000 You guys knew that when you signed up?

00:16:45.000 Well, college is what you make up for.

00:16:47.000 You guys are willingly participating in the scam.

00:16:49.000 Good for you.

00:16:50.000 The point is this.

00:16:51.000 Is that most kids know deep down they're getting ripped off.

00:16:54.000 The number one thing I hear from people across the country in corporate America boy, college is a waste of time.

00:16:59.000 Boy, I wish I never would have gone.

00:17:00.000 Now I have $60,000 of debt, $70,000 in debt.

00:17:03.000 I wanted to start a business, but now I don't have the credit to do it.

00:17:06.000 Instead, we are wasting our most prized possession, our 18 to 22 year olds, to go stick them at many universities when they shouldn't be here in the first place.

00:17:12.000 And it is a failed project.

00:17:15.000 It is making us poorer.

00:17:16.000 It is making, and by the way, just look at the actual numbers over a period of time.

00:17:20.000 Has it worked?

00:17:21.000 Is homeownership now going up for young college graduates?

00:17:23.000 How are we going to blame that on college, though?

00:17:24.000 It's the number one reason that people are not in college.

00:17:28.000 It's the most equally applicable thing across the board for a generation.

00:17:31.000 I think so.

00:17:31.000 And if you look at the average, how much debt do you have to go to school, by the way?

00:17:35.000 None.

00:17:36.000 None?

00:17:36.000 Okay, wow.

00:17:38.000 Are you on scholarship or?

00:17:39.000 Yeah.

00:17:39.000 Okay, so who's paying for your college then?

00:17:42.000 Probably the federal government.

00:17:43.000 Okay, so I'm paying for your college, is what you're saying.

00:17:46.000 My taxes are paying for your college.

00:17:48.000 So wait, do you have a.

00:17:49.000 You're on grant or what?

00:17:52.000 I'm not going to discuss my college finances.

00:17:54.000 Well, no, this is really important.

00:17:55.000 This is why you're so defensive of college.

00:17:57.000 This is why you're so forceful because you don't have to walk around the rest of your life with $100,000 student loan debt.

00:18:02.000 I know plenty of people that have part time jobs and go to college.

00:18:05.000 This explains you perfectly.

00:18:06.000 I, the taxpayer, when I write my check to the IRS, I'm subsidizing your ability to go to college.

00:18:11.000 Okay.

00:18:11.000 When I write my check to the IRS, I also give money for people to go to college.

00:18:16.000 You should have skin in the game.

00:18:17.000 You should, and you don't right now.

00:18:19.000 You are doing a freeloading thing.

00:18:20.000 Of course, you should be defensive of college.

00:18:22.000 I pay taxes.

00:18:22.000 I pay federal taxes.

00:18:24.000 I pay state taxes.

00:18:25.000 I'm sure I pay a little bit more than you, but that's a separate issue.

00:18:28.000 But, The point is this.

00:18:28.000 That's probably true.

00:18:30.000 You think you pay anywhere close to the tuition value you get at the school?

00:18:33.000 Probably not.

00:18:34.000 Yeah, probably I do.

00:18:35.000 It's like $5,000 a semester.

00:18:36.000 It's a lot of money, but you get a lot out of that.

00:18:39.000 Hold on.

00:18:39.000 How much is it to go to school here?

00:18:40.000 It's around $5,000.

00:18:41.000 So in state?

00:18:42.000 In state, yeah.

00:18:43.000 Okay.

00:18:44.000 Did that include room and board and tuition?

00:18:46.000 No.

00:18:46.000 Okay.

00:18:47.000 How much does that cost?

00:18:48.000 Room, board, tuition, all of it's around $11,000?

00:18:50.000 $11,000 a semester.

00:18:51.000 So you pay $22,000 a year in taxes?

00:18:54.000 No.

00:18:54.000 Okay, got it.

00:18:55.000 So you're in a tax deficit, which means the U.S. taxpayer is subsidizing your education.

00:18:59.000 That's fine.

00:19:00.000 I'm not faulting you for it, but this is why you're so defensive you're detached from the price, you're detached from the cost.

00:19:05.000 It's easy to be defensive of something you're not paying for.

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00:21:44.000 I just was curious about your stance on college is a scam.

00:21:47.000 Yeah.

00:21:47.000 And I just was curious why you say that.

00:21:51.000 Let me prove it to you.

00:21:51.000 How many of you have to take classes that are a waste of time that you wish you shouldn't have to take?

00:21:54.000 Well, there you go.

00:21:56.000 I rest my case.

00:21:57.000 Yeah, no.

00:21:58.000 How many of you guys know at least three people that dropped out that went to this college previously and earlier?

00:22:02.000 Okay.

00:22:02.000 The national graduation rate is 41%.

00:22:04.000 Most people that go to college do not graduate.

00:22:07.000 You guys actually go to a school that has a lot of applicability in the job market outside of some of the majors that are offered, but aeronautical engineering, computer engineering, which, you know, go work for Elon.

00:22:20.000 So, this school is actually a little bit more of the exception than it is the rule, because I think humanities are largely one of the great wastes of time and kind of societal poisons and cancers that are happening in our society.

00:22:31.000 So, yeah, I'm happy to continue.

00:22:32.000 So, yeah, so what do you recommend an 18 year old dude or a girl to do after high school?

00:22:41.000 Turn up the volume.

00:22:43.000 Can we try?

00:22:44.000 I apologize.

00:22:44.000 Sorry, yeah.

00:22:46.000 And I will come out there and say hi to you guys in a second.

00:22:46.000 We're going to try.

00:22:48.000 So, yeah, and we're gonna go say hi to all of our friends over there.

00:22:53.000 So, yeah, what do I recommend?

00:22:56.000 It all depends on what you want to do.

00:22:58.000 That's the most, the worst thing you can do is enter into a four year agreement where you have to borrow a bunch of money, try to find your way, go take a bunch of classes that have very little relevancy, and next thing you know, you end up with a college degree and you end up getting a job that doesn't require a college degree.

00:23:15.000 Here's a fact half of people that graduate college end up getting a job that does not require a college degree.

00:23:21.000 10 years after they graduate.

00:23:24.000 That is the best argument I have.

00:23:25.000 It goes to show the diploma doesn't actually have.

00:23:27.000 I mean, you're looking at engineering students, you're looking at.

00:23:30.000 Well, engineering's different.

00:23:32.000 I know, finance students.

00:23:33.000 I qualify that.

00:23:34.000 Students like that.

00:23:35.000 For example, I went to community college for two years, and a lot of other people go to community college.

00:23:40.000 You get free community college for two years, then you could transfer over, and then two years at a college like Cal Poly or a university.

00:23:49.000 And the top five paying jobs at a college are accountants, engineers.

00:23:55.000 Teachers.

00:23:56.000 Try to get closer to the mic so people can hear.

00:23:58.000 Teachers, engineers, stuff like that.

00:24:00.000 And it's just, you know.

00:24:02.000 And then the guys, the people that are wearing the shirts are actually in college.

00:24:06.000 So I'm just curious, like, you know.

00:24:09.000 They know better than I do that it's a scam then.

00:24:12.000 I mean, it's just someone like me, you know.

00:24:14.000 I think it just comes down to hard work ethic, you know?

00:24:16.000 Like, I don't understand, like, not everyone's built for the trades.

00:24:16.000 No.

00:24:20.000 Not everyone's built to go into construction or, you know, work as a painter or whatever they're doing after college.

00:24:24.000 Or a mechanic.

00:24:25.000 Yeah, exactly, you know?

00:24:27.000 And I just, you know, a large majority of people going into college out of high school, I think it's a good choice for kids because they have four years to develop as a human being versus just jumping into the workforce and making, what, 30, 40 grand?

00:24:42.000 And you can't live off that right now.

00:24:44.000 Are those folks over there developing as human beings?

00:24:47.000 I mean, I'm not talking about them.

00:24:49.000 But hold on.

00:24:49.000 I'm talking about, you know.

00:24:50.000 That's what college produces, though angry, bitter, resentful activists that hate the country.

00:24:55.000 That's not developing, that's hardening and honestly creating, you know, a mobilization army for the radical left.

00:25:03.000 That's what we've seen.

00:25:04.000 You got your major courses where you're taking, you know, I'm a real estate finance major, so I'm taking classes for real estate finance.

00:25:09.000 I have internships in real estate finance.

00:25:11.000 It's great.

00:25:11.000 I'm not going into that field after college, but I'm saying you take classes at college.

00:25:16.000 To get a job after college.

00:25:18.000 And there's a.

00:25:20.000 Most of the universities, you get over 75 grand a year out of college.

00:25:23.000 And if you do the route of two years at community college and transfer into a university, you're able to pay off that debt, which is around 20K, 30K for a school like this.

00:25:31.000 You can go to state school and then you're off to the races.

00:25:34.000 So I got this.

00:25:36.000 41% don't.

00:25:37.000 So, because they shouldn't have gone in the first place.

00:25:39.000 Then what do they do?

00:25:40.000 What do you do after college?

00:25:41.000 They never should have gone.

00:25:42.000 I mean, yeah, we have 11 million open trade jobs in this country.

00:25:45.000 Yeah, so here's the thing.

00:25:46.000 People do not want to work with their hands, and parents don't want to send their kids to go work with their hands because it's considered to be dirty type labor.

00:25:54.000 11 million job openings in this country that require just a six month certification, whether it be auto mechanic, HVAC, plumber, so on and so forth.

00:26:03.000 And it's not for everybody.

00:26:05.000 I mean, I get what you're saying.

00:26:06.000 It's just like the large majority of people in America right now are just lazy.

00:26:12.000 They're not going to be doing that after high school.

00:26:15.000 Well, we agree.

00:26:15.000 So, does college make you lazy or make you work harder?

00:26:19.000 Makes you work harder.

00:26:20.000 I mean, I worked throughout college.

00:26:21.000 You are the exception then.

00:26:22.000 I'm here.

00:26:24.000 Because employers are disagreeing. 0.99

00:26:26.000 They say we've never seen such lazy, entitled, narcissistic college graduates.

00:26:30.000 In fact, most employers say if you have a college degree, you're put in a different category.

00:26:35.000 They prefer people out of high school, unless you want to go work for Bank of America in a soulless laptop job for the rest of your life and go learn about how men can become pregnant at some HR department survey.

00:26:47.000 Or you use your analytical skills that you use in school to get a job or six figures.

00:26:52.000 You can develop analytical schools outside of college.

00:26:55.000 I think you're just.

00:26:56.000 I'm living proof of that.

00:26:57.000 I think you're just.

00:26:58.000 Yeah, I mean, I almost dropped out too.

00:27:00.000 And I'm not saying it wasn't the right choice for you, but more times than not, kids are deceived and lied, and they have tons of animosity because this school is unique.

00:27:09.000 If you go to UCLA or if you go to UC Berkeley, you're not left with $30,000 in debt.

00:27:13.000 You're left with $130,000 in debt, right?

00:27:18.000 I wasn't expecting this, I have to say.

00:27:20.000 But Death of Recess, it stopped me in my tracks.

00:27:25.000 This isn't about dodgeballs and jungle gyms.

00:27:27.000 It's about control.

00:27:29.000 The modern American classroom didn't just happen, it was intentionally designed, it was standardized and centralized.

00:27:35.000 And once you see who built it and who protects it, everything clicks.

00:27:39.000 Billions of dollars are flowing through education bureaucracies every year.

00:27:43.000 Test scores collapse, and somehow the answer is always more money and less parental authority.

00:27:48.000 The documentary breaks down How organizations like the NEA amassed enormous influence, how radical gender ideology entered classrooms, and why something as basic as recess, movement, freedom, childhood, you know, had to go.

00:28:03.000 That's not random, that's systemic.

00:28:05.000 Institutions protect themselves, they do not protect your kids.

00:28:09.000 And that's why this documentary exists on Angel Studio streaming platform, Angel Guild.

00:28:14.000 Angel Guild is willing to distribute films that challenge powerful systems when legacy media won't touch them.

00:28:20.000 So, right now, go to angel.com. com slash Charlie and watch Death of Recess right now.

00:28:27.000 If you're a parent or plan to be, you need to see this.

00:28:29.000 That's angel.com slash Charlie and watch Death of Recess.

00:28:36.000 If you feel as if there's a massive amount of injustice in the world, um, there's a lot of truth to the argument that you as a young person have been lied to and misled and that you have been told to do things that are not in your best interest.

00:28:50.000 One of them being having to go to college to succeed.

00:28:53.000 Um, there, I do not believe that a majority of young people should be going to college.

00:28:57.000 In fact, I think, um, that college is largely a scam and I'll prove it to you.

00:29:01.000 How many of you have to take classes that you are forced to take that have no relevancy to your degree or major and you wish you shouldn't have to take it?

00:29:07.000 Every hand goes up.

00:29:07.000 Right.

00:29:08.000 Um, And so, the idea that just a piece of paper is going to be able to grant you access in society is a highly questionable one at best.

00:29:16.000 And so, how many of you know someone that dropped out of college?

00:29:19.000 Raise your hand.

00:29:19.000 Yeah, almost every hand goes up.

00:29:20.000 You're being forced to take classes that really have no relevancy to your future, whatever that might be, and you're also simultaneously then knowing that people are dropping out at a record rate, ask yourself the question why is this the case?

00:29:34.000 And so, but this is something I want to try to just hopefully find some common ground on, which is the following, which is that.

00:29:41.000 If you feel as if kind of the game has been rigged against you as a young person, you're not totally wrong.

00:29:47.000 There is an understandable anger that begins to set in, and I know a lot of you feel this way, as if I've done everything I've been told to do, and I do not get the same shot at the American dream or at flourishing that my parents did.

00:30:04.000 And I will say that we could talk at length about what to do about that, but I think that there is a critique out there by some conservatives.

00:30:12.000 That all young people are lazy and all that.

00:30:15.000 I don't believe that.

00:30:16.000 I think there's plenty of lazy young people.

00:30:17.000 There's lazy people in every age group.

00:30:19.000 I don't think that millennials and Gen Z are generally lazy.

00:30:23.000 I think that they've done everything they've been told to do, and now they're looking at their life when they're 25, 26, and 27, and they're like, wait a second, I followed the rules.

00:30:33.000 So my message is understanding that critique, let's try to turn some of that cynicism into hope, into a country that could be something you could buy into, something you could do in your own life to actually find meaning and purpose.

00:30:47.000 Because cynical people do really bad things.

00:30:51.000 They do.

00:30:52.000 Over time, cynical politics is not good for society.

00:30:55.000 You get very radical political movements when you start to be cynical about everything.

00:30:59.000 And guess what?

00:31:00.000 I have to wrestle with this myself.

00:31:02.000 I'm cynical about a lot.

00:31:03.000 But instead, I have to go through the process of stopping the cynicism and saying, wait a second, what do I believe?

00:31:09.000 What's the country I want to live in?

00:31:11.000 What can I do to actually hopefully get an optimistic, hopeful message out?

00:31:14.000 Because the politics of cynicism is bad for everybody.

00:31:17.000 If you think things are always constantly falling apart, And there's no resolution, there's no way to try to solve it, then by definition, what comes next is either going to be an authoritarianism or anarchy, one of the two.

00:31:28.000 And one will lead to authoritarianism, right?

00:31:30.000 Anarchy does not last, it doesn't.

00:31:32.000 Anarchy happens, and then an authoritarian person takes over.

00:31:35.000 And you saw this in the French Revolution, the Russian Revolution, when people get hyper cynical about the political process, they're willing to give their political power to a Napoleon or a Vladimir Lenin or whatever.

00:31:45.000 I don't want that, you don't want that either.

00:31:48.000 And so, if you're feeling as if the game has been structured against you, I want to just say there's a lot of truth to that argument.

00:31:56.000 And conservatives don't always talk like this.

00:31:58.000 Conservatives will usually say work harder, study harder, live by the rules.

00:32:03.000 I agree with all those things, by the way.

00:32:04.000 I think there can be a little bit more grit in this generation and all that.

00:32:07.000 But I think it would be unfair and not true to act as if right now a 20 year old at UC Berkeley has the same set of circumstances that someone in the year 2004 had here.

00:32:19.000 It's just not true.

00:32:20.000 And the lack of recognizing that, I think, is something that creates even more cynicism and more anger.

00:32:27.000 What exactly do you mean by college is a scam?

00:32:32.000 Good question.

00:32:32.000 I wrote a whole book about it.

00:32:34.000 Largely, the value proposition that You are being offered is not worth the time or the money that many of you are forking over.

00:32:40.000 There's exceptions to that generally, but for example, the vast majority of students that graduate from four year college will end up getting a job if they get a job at all in a career or a job that doesn't require a college degree.

00:32:52.000 So, henceforth, asking the question why do they go to college in the first place?

00:32:57.000 Okay, now what do you mean about jobs that don't require a college degree?

00:33:01.000 Like working at Starbucks as a barista.

00:33:04.000 Okay.

00:33:07.000 So, what exactly do you mean by the value proposition not being sufficient for the cost of going to college?

00:33:18.000 Yeah, so, I mean, going $30,000, $40,000, $50,000 into debt, that's a significant thing.

00:33:24.000 And hopefully, if you're going to do that, you're going to be able to prove and have some value for that reason.

00:33:31.000 So, for example, there was a study that just came out in the last day the 16 lowest paying job majors.

00:33:38.000 The vast majority of those are actually what kids study in college, right?

00:33:41.000 Communications, liberal arts, things of that nature.

00:33:43.000 And so the question is why even go to college at all if you're just basically getting a credential that is worth less and less money in the marketplace?

00:33:51.000 Now, if you study engineering, if you study finance, terrific, but the scam also is just beyond the financial value proposition.

00:33:58.000 It's the ideological pollutants that are spread on college campuses and the, let's just say, some of the left wing indoctrination that occurs here as well.

00:34:07.000 Okay, so moving aside from that red herring there, I myself am a communication major, and I am very well aware of the communication majors who just take a four year degree and go into jobs that either don't require a degree or.

00:34:28.000 Try to get as close to the mic as you can, is that okay?

00:34:30.000 Thank you.

00:34:30.000 It's okay.

00:34:31.000 But, anyways, I'm aware of the communication majors who only get a bachelor's degree, and if they're lucky, they're only able to get research assistant jobs in communication.

00:34:43.000 Or not even get a job that requires a degree at all.

00:34:48.000 But would not those who continue on to get masters and doctorates in communication, who get hundreds, who get a hundred thousand dollar a year or two hundred thousand dollar a year research jobs, would that not counteract the total economic, socioeconomic value of those who just go into college and then end up Starbucks baristas?

00:35:14.000 Potentially, yeah, I mean.

00:35:15.000 Also, master's degrees are expensive, right?

00:35:18.000 PhDs are expensive, so you're looking at least at $150,000 to $200,000 in debt, minimum, if you're going to do that.

00:35:24.000 And if that's the path you want to take, so be it.

00:35:27.000 But there are 11 million job openings in the country right now that pay $80,000 or more that don't require a college degree.

00:35:34.000 11 million job openings.

00:35:36.000 And I don't think we're always telling our young people, you know, the next generation, that these jobs are available to you.

00:35:41.000 It's an expectation that you go to four year college, and in fact, you're treated and almost considered to be dumb if you don't go to four year university.

00:35:49.000 And I think that's a big mistake, and not to mention the vast majority 41% of kids that enter college do not graduate.

00:35:55.000 There's something deeply wrong with the system.

00:35:57.000 So, from what you're telling me, though, it sounds more like the problem lies not in college itself, but rather the individual paths that people choose who look at a situation, make the wrong decisions, don't stay in school as long as they need to in order to get the career that they want.

00:36:21.000 Or they drop out because they don't see the value.

00:36:24.000 They drop out because they don't think it's worth their time.

00:36:27.000 And again, half of this audience, after 10 years, if they get a job, they'll end up getting a job that didn't require them going to college in the first place.

00:36:35.000 Half.

00:36:37.000 That sounds like a scam.

00:36:38.000 Why are they here in the first place?

00:36:39.000 Why are they borrowing all this money and spending four years on a university just to go get a job that never would have required them to get the degree or the debt or the four years being spent on campus?

00:36:48.000 Thanks for the time.

00:36:48.000 I appreciate it.

00:36:49.000 Thank you.

00:36:54.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to charliekirk.com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - April 11, 2026

Do You Really Need College to Succeed?

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