The Charlie Kirk Show - April 01, 2023


Donald Trump, GOP Martyr? with Donald Trump Jr. and Michael Malice


Episode Stats


Length

36 minutes

Words per minute

196.76147

Word count

7,149

Sentence count

523

Harmful content

Misogyny

3

sentences flagged

Toxicity

14

sentences flagged

Hate speech

9

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

On this episode of the Charlie Kirk Show, Don Jr. joins the show to talk about his father being indicted and how that has changed our country. Also, Charlie and Don discuss why we need to elect a conservative presidential candidate.

Transcript

Transcripts from "The Charlie Kirk Show" are sourced from the Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool. Explore them interactively here.
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Hey, everybody.
00:00:00.000 Today at the Charlie Kirk Show, Michael Malas joins the program.
00:00:04.000 We have a little bit of a debate.
00:00:06.000 It's fun.
00:00:07.000 I wasn't totally thrilled with how he handled part of it.
00:00:09.000 It was kind of interesting.
00:00:10.000 We were doing a long show and kind of like a unifying cry, and then I wasn't really in a place to debate, but we got there and it was fine.
00:00:17.000 And then Don Jr. starts us off.
00:00:18.000 And Don talks about his father being indicted and how that has changed our country.
00:00:22.000 Email us freedom at charliekirk.com.
00:00:24.000 Subscribe to our podcast by opening up your podcast application and typing in Charlie Kirk Show.
00:00:29.000 Get involved with TurningPointUSA at tpusa.com.
00:00:32.000 That is tpusa.com.
00:00:35.000 Buckle up, everybody.
00:00:36.000 Here we go.
00:00:37.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
00:00:39.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campuses.
00:00:41.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.
00:00:44.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.
00:00:48.000 I want to thank Charlie.
00:00:49.000 He's an incredible guy.
00:00:50.000 His spirit, his love of this country.
00:00:52.000 He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.
00:00:58.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
00:01:07.000 That's why we are here.
00:01:10.000 Brought to you by the Loan Experts I Trust, Andrew and Todd at Sierra Pacific Mortgage at AndrewandTodd.com.
00:01:20.000 You should be angry today.
00:01:22.000 And this is a time for action.
00:01:26.000 And this is a time to realize that the country we love has slipped away and we have to get it back.
00:01:33.000 Joining us now is Donald Trump Jr.
00:01:35.000 He has a great show on Rumble.
00:01:37.000 Rumble's doing very well.
00:01:38.000 As a side note to all that, all of you should download the Rumble app, but we're not here to talk about that today.
00:01:42.000 Don, your father was indicted yesterday.
00:01:45.000 Your immediate reaction.
00:01:47.000 I mean, you know, Charlie, we've been doing this for a long time, and you and I have spent a lot of time together fighting for an America.
00:01:54.000 I thought we still, even us, even, you know, even in the midst of all of it, still believed that it existed.
00:01:59.000 But apparently, that America is actually much further gone than we probably ever envisioned.
00:02:08.000 And that's, you know, as witnessed by what we just saw over the last 24 hours.
00:02:12.000 I mean, the state going after their political enemies is the sort of stuff that would make Putin blush.
00:02:20.000 And yet it's happening here.
00:02:22.000 You know, the people who are screaming about Ukraine and wanting to jail Putin, there's some irony that we're doing that here in our own country right now.
00:02:33.000 And the fact that that irony is totally lost on the machine, you know, our mainstream media, big tech, the social enterprises that we are literally up against.
00:02:47.000 And I think, you know, perhaps the only thing that is is good because people will finally see it for what it is.
00:02:53.000 The amount of people that I'm seeing reaching out to me that don't follow politics, that are like, hey, I don't care.
00:02:59.000 We just need the guy that's going to blow up the system.
00:03:01.000 And unfortunately, everyone only knows there's only one guy that's actually going to do that.
00:03:05.000 I think we've been led to believe over the last few months that there are others.
00:03:09.000 But I think the last two, three weeks has sort of proven that they're just beholden to their donors and same part of the establishment of the two-party system that pretends they're against each other and adversarial.
00:03:22.000 But really, when it comes down to it, it's a uni party.
00:03:25.000 So, Don, what is your reaction to some of these weak Republican responses, Asa Hutchinson and many others?
00:03:31.000 What is your response to the Republican Party that is groveling while we see the destruction of the rule of law, the targeting of a former president, and the turning of a chapter into America and into an America that is not free and is not just?
00:03:44.000 What is your reaction to that?
00:03:46.000 Well, listen, we just, we can't elect anyone like this ever again.
00:03:51.000 I mean, this is why we are in the position that we're in because they continuously and constantly bend their knee.
00:03:58.000 They cave in, you know, whatever it may be, whatever whim of the radical left.
00:04:03.000 We see that in the uh in the trains movement these days where they're going, they're victim blaming innocent children gunned down in cold blood by a sociopath.
00:04:13.000 And that's not a hate crime, but if you're a concerned parent who goes to a teacher's PTA meeting not wanting your children to be indoctrinated, you're a domestic terrorist, but this instance of the excuses that it never ends.
00:04:27.000 I mean, it feels like it's off topic, but it's not because it's so extreme.
00:04:31.000 And we have example after example of this where our quote-unquote leadership just bends the knee to the other side because it's an easy existence in Washington, D.C. to be a weak Republican.
00:04:42.000 You know, you get invited to the cool person party.
00:04:45.000 You can tell your constituency in a small room of five people when you're at home exactly what they want to hear.
00:04:50.000 But as long as they know that you're going to bend the knee, that you're going to fold when it actually matters, when the things that actually mean something to us and their constituency, if you're going to fold, hey, you can have an easy existence.
00:05:02.000 We want weak Republicans.
00:05:03.000 And whether it's Asa Hutchinson and honestly, some people that we thought were probably reasonably strong until about a week or two ago, I think are being exposed for the weaklings that they actually are.
00:05:15.000 You know, bowing to the establishment, bowing to the sort of Bush Republicans and the Karl Roe Republicans, and most importantly, bowing to the money because they need it.
00:05:24.000 And that money is not aligned with the real MAGA movement.
00:05:27.000 Don, you tweeted, not a single person that visited Epstein Island was indicted over other than G Maxwell, who seems to be serving a 25-year sentence for sex trafficking minors to no one.
00:05:38.000 Dot, dot, dot.
00:05:40.000 But they'll indict Trump over a campaign finance violation past the statute limitations that even the feds, who spent seven years trying to jail my father, passed on it because it's nonsense.
00:05:50.000 Let that sink in for a minute.
00:05:51.000 Don, there's Republican AGs and DAs that seem to be doing absolutely nothing against the Democrat crime cartel, Epstein, BLM, CCP. 0.60
00:06:00.000 Don, is it time for Republicans to grow a spine and say, you know what?
00:06:04.000 You indict Trump, then we're going to go after the criminal enterprise of BLM. 0.92
00:06:08.000 We're going to at least investigate George Soros.
00:06:10.000 Is it now time, Don?
00:06:13.000 Liz, I think it's long past that time, Charlie.
00:06:15.000 I mean, this isn't the first time I've been saying this.
00:06:16.000 I mean, I've been talking to sort of look at the disparity between what they've tried to do to me.
00:06:23.000 Just me.
00:06:24.000 Like, I'm not a political candidate, never have been, never even put my toe in the thing, but I've just fought for what I believe in.
00:06:30.000 And say Hunter Biden, who's managed to make literally tens of millions of dollars, if not significantly more, a crackhead got a billion dollar investment from the state party of China.
00:06:42.000 You know, the Chinese don't, they don't exactly invest with people who are crackheads. 0.99
00:06:45.000 That's not a part of their business model. 0.99
00:06:47.000 They may be many things, evil, dictatorial, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, but they're not stupid. 0.97
00:06:52.000 And yet they can give a billion dollars to the son of the vice president at the time to invest. 0.99
00:06:52.000 That's correct. 0.99
00:06:57.000 And we have the weakest policy on China that we've ever had in the history of our republic.
00:07:04.000 And no one asks the question.
00:07:06.000 He can be on the payroll for Ukraine and Russian oligarchs.
00:07:09.000 And no one asks the question of, hey, do you think some of the decisions that we are making in Ukraine right now to the tune of $130 billion and a proxy war with the world's largest nuclear power by volume of nuclear-capable missiles and warheads,
00:07:27.000 do you think our decision-making process is being influenced by the fact that they too probably have a couple of Hunter Biden laptops since it feels like all of our enemies have that and videos of him probably doing a lot worse than what we've already seen?
00:07:40.000 No one's even willing to ask that question.
00:07:43.000 Our media certainly won't.
00:07:44.000 Our big tech will cover it up.
00:07:46.000 Our intelligence community will go out of their way to tell you that that's Russian disinformation to get what they want.
00:07:52.000 You know, like origins of COVID, like all of these things, you know, six months to two years later, we're proven right and we're doing a great job dunking on them on the internet, but it doesn't matter.
00:08:01.000 They got everything that they wanted.
00:08:02.000 They won.
00:08:04.000 There's no consequence. 0.94
00:08:05.000 There's no accountability for their lies, for their cheating, for their stealing, for the nonsense.
00:08:11.000 You know, so the dunking is nice, but like, you know, we're taking like a ferric victory because we actually lost the battle.
00:08:18.000 We have to be engaged much more.
00:08:20.000 You know, we need people who are not willing to bow down to that system, who are unafraid.
00:08:26.000 And again, I had hopes.
00:08:27.000 I wish we had deeper benches.
00:08:28.000 Unfortunately, we don't.
00:08:30.000 Perhaps that's why I've sort of created a name for myself within this basis because people are like, hey, at least I'll fight.
00:08:36.000 We don't have anyone willing to fight.
00:08:38.000 The few other fighters that I think we thought were fighters, they flipped up on Ukraine in the last two weeks.
00:08:42.000 They say something mimicking Trump, and then all of a sudden the donors and Karl Rove get to them.
00:08:47.000 Oh, we got to change our mind on that one.
00:08:49.000 Apparently, we found out last week Ron DeSantis doesn't believe that the weaponization of our government against their political rivals isn't a big deal, that it was just made up.
00:09:00.000 And I guess we were proven yesterday. 0.98
00:09:02.000 I think that was a stupid statement last week or 10 days ago. 0.99
00:09:06.000 I think in hindsight now, looking at it as it relates to yesterday, it's significantly worse than we ever imagined. 0.99
00:09:14.000 That's the next fighter.
00:09:15.000 I mean, if that's the fighter, we got really big problems.
00:09:18.000 So we have to engage much differently.
00:09:21.000 And we can't allow this stuff to continue like this.
00:09:24.000 Well, Don, I think, you know, just in closing here, I think the primary, I mean, it's basically Donald Trump's now.
00:09:30.000 There's not going to be much of a primary.
00:09:31.000 And that's a sad, you know, benefit from item benefit, but it's a sad positive out of all this.
00:09:37.000 In closing, what is your call to action to MAGA across the country?
00:09:40.000 We've got tons of people watching.
00:09:42.000 They're anxious.
00:09:43.000 They're nervous.
00:09:43.000 They're mad.
00:09:44.000 They're furious.
00:09:45.000 Don, what's the final call to action?
00:09:48.000 They should be, but we do have to be engaged.
00:09:51.000 We have to get involved.
00:09:52.000 Don't forget, you know, the primary may be over in the minds of MAGA, but all the consultants that are going to make millions of dollars doing the ad buys and the commercial spend and the consulting.
00:10:03.000 And, you know, they're skimming 20% off this donation, 20%.
00:10:06.000 They're going to make sure that there's a primary because that's how they get rich.
00:10:10.000 They're giving other people that may have a shot in time when it's their turn.
00:10:14.000 They're giving them really bad advice because there's so much money to be made.
00:10:17.000 So it's not that over, but you have to watch what's going on.
00:10:20.000 Now we know.
00:10:22.000 My father came in as an outsider, tried figuring out the game, had incredible accomplishments despite the uni party going after him.
00:10:29.000 I mean, we had Republicans that refused to do the things that they were elected to do by their voters because that wasn't what the swamp wanted.
00:10:39.000 We saw that he was able to deliver results, and that was with no experience.
00:10:43.000 But now he knows who the enemies are.
00:10:45.000 Now he knows exactly what he does. 0.97
00:10:47.000 And by the way, I think there's actually an advantage to being a lame duck. 0.82
00:10:50.000 You don't have to worry about getting re-elected.
00:10:53.000 You go in there and you have four years to right the wrongs.
00:10:57.000 You have four years to go after the insanity.
00:11:00.000 You have four years where you can do that and not care about anything other than what's right for the future of our country and for America.
00:11:08.000 And I think, man, it's actually almost more of a positive than if you were coming in with eight years where you got to play the DC game and you're doing this.
00:11:17.000 Now it doesn't matter.
00:11:18.000 We've seen it's so far gone.
00:11:20.000 You need the guy that's just going to break down the system entirely.
00:11:23.000 And there's no one else that's actually willing to do that.
00:11:25.000 There's plenty that will say it, none that will actually do anything.
00:11:29.000 And, you know, we've seen too much of that from our politicians as well.
00:11:32.000 Don, God bless you.
00:11:33.000 We're behind your family and you 100%.
00:11:35.000 Check out his show on Rumble.
00:11:37.000 All of you should download the Rumble app, separate topic for a different time, but Rumble is surging as a legitimate YouTube competitor.
00:11:43.000 R-U-M-B-L-E.com. 0.99
00:11:45.000 Check it out.
00:11:46.000 Don, God bless you.
00:11:50.000 Hey, everybody.
00:11:50.000 Charlie Kirk here.
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00:12:50.000 I'm going to play some more tape here.
00:12:53.000 How is the left responding to this?
00:12:56.000 This is a big day for them.
00:12:57.000 This is a celebration.
00:12:59.000 Play cut 120.
00:13:01.000 The twice impeached.
00:13:04.000 I can't even stay.
00:13:04.000 Twice impeach.
00:13:05.000 The twice impeached, one term, once indicted, but who's counting?
00:13:10.000 Former president is reportedly facing more than 30 count them criminal charges.
00:13:16.000 So, how do we feel about this unprecedented moment in American history?
00:13:21.000 I called it.
00:13:22.000 Did you?
00:13:24.000 We feel good.
00:13:28.000 Begging for applause.
00:13:32.000 This is a big day for them.
00:13:34.000 They're bloodthirsty.
00:13:35.000 They want this.
00:13:35.000 And I hope all the people on the view, I just hope they remember this day.
00:13:39.000 Because I don't know if they'll be applauding when all their favorite Democrats, not all of them, but some of them, one here and one there, start getting perp walked.
00:13:47.000 That's the country they just created.
00:13:49.000 And they say no one's above the law.
00:13:51.000 Game on.
00:13:52.000 Pick a Democrat, any Democrat.
00:13:54.000 Charitable fraud, lying under oath, going to Epstein's Island, foreign influence peddling, not filing taxes.
00:14:03.000 How about Zuckerboxes? 1.00
00:14:05.000 You guys going to be doing that?
00:14:07.000 Or how about all the different types of activity that's occurring with Antifa?
00:14:13.000 So just, you guys are happy now, but be very careful what you're delighting in because this movement is just waking up.
00:14:20.000 And by the way, we are not going to support any political leaders if they don't say, I am going to actually use political power to investigate and find the crimes of the American Democrat crime family. 0.52
00:14:32.000 We have RICO laws, by the way. 0.67
00:14:34.000 Why is Antifa always getting arrested for 10 minutes and then released?
00:14:37.000 Why are Republicans putting up with that?
00:14:38.000 They're weak. 0.96
00:14:40.000 They're weak.
00:14:42.000 And they're afraid.
00:14:44.000 And then they give these excuses.
00:14:45.000 Well, you know, we don't always have grand jury and panel authority as an AG.
00:14:50.000 Well, you could do criminal referrals, though, to a DA in your state.
00:14:54.000 So to stop, cut that out.
00:14:55.000 That's nonsense.
00:14:56.000 We're not going to put up with that anymore.
00:14:59.000 I just hope you all understand.
00:15:01.000 This is a local district attorney.
00:15:04.000 This is not the Department of Justice.
00:15:06.000 This is not even an attorney general.
00:15:07.000 This is somebody with a particular jurisdiction.
00:15:10.000 Okay.
00:15:11.000 So what are the 10 most conservative cities in America?
00:15:17.000 What are the 10 most conservative cities in America?
00:15:22.000 I'm sure like Lubbock, Texas, Midland.
00:15:27.000 Why are they not doing criminal referrals?
00:15:29.000 And so, by the way, Ken Paxton says, I'm begging local DAs for him to hand criminal referrals.
00:15:34.000 I know, Ken.
00:15:36.000 I don't buy this.
00:15:37.000 Stop begging.
00:15:37.000 Go get it done.
00:15:38.000 Go mute the DA and work collaboratively.
00:15:39.000 I think that's an excuse.
00:15:40.000 I'll be honest.
00:15:42.000 No more excuses.
00:15:42.000 You have the largest attorney general's office in the country in Texas.
00:15:46.000 Why do you not have a local DA in Midland Odessa or in Lubbock, which are like beyond conservative, right?
00:15:53.000 Albel, Abilene.
00:15:55.000 And just say, you know, we're going to indict BLM for charitable fraud based on the public information we have available.
00:16:00.000 That's a simple, simple win, right?
00:16:02.000 That's not grandiose.
00:16:04.000 That's not abstract.
00:16:06.000 There's no questions there.
00:16:08.000 They received donations.
00:16:11.000 BLM received donations from these states.
00:16:13.000 The jurisdiction is there for charitable fraud.
00:16:16.000 Those people were defrauded. 0.95
00:16:18.000 She bought a $6 million mansion in Malibu under the guise of racial justice. 0.90
00:16:23.000 And by the way, so people say, what does the audience do?
00:16:25.000 What do we do?
00:16:26.000 People are asking the audience, what do we do?
00:16:29.000 You have to have a whole new political posture.
00:16:32.000 First and foremost, you have to help the people that are under attack, including President Trump.
00:16:37.000 Secondly, you have to have a change of attitude.
00:16:38.000 And for those of you in red states with DAs, sheriffs, or attorney generals that aren't doing this, by the way, none of them are doing this.
00:16:44.000 Yeah, Jeff Landry has some sort of lawsuit into BLM or something.
00:16:48.000 I mean, let me try to find this here.
00:16:50.000 Yeah, so here it is.
00:16:54.000 Jeff Landry opened a civil investigation into BLM.
00:17:02.000 I haven't seen any indictments a couple years later.
00:17:04.000 The Missouri Attorney General is doing pretty good on censorship.
00:17:08.000 It's a good model.
00:17:10.000 We kind of found out a couple things there.
00:17:12.000 By the way, just pick any issue.
00:17:14.000 How about this?
00:17:15.000 Why doesn't a local DA go and investigate Anthony Fauci for all the child suicides that might have happened in their local area?
00:17:22.000 Say, hey, because you're locked down.
00:17:24.000 That might be a stretch, but it's a question.
00:17:26.000 Or the vaccine manufacturers.
00:17:28.000 I mean, there's just so much there.
00:17:31.000 But they're afraid.
00:17:32.000 They live in fear.
00:17:35.000 To them, this is a very serious issue.
00:17:38.000 Reputation.
00:17:40.000 They want to be loved.
00:17:43.000 They're really concerned about the decline of the rule of law, but they're not doing anything to actually go about fix it.
00:17:50.000 And so the new Republican Party, the new right needs to say, okay, you guys did this.
00:17:55.000 This is what you have done.
00:17:57.000 If you don't start putting Democrats in handcuffs in red states, then we're not going to support you for political office.
00:18:03.000 We don't like talking this way, but it's necessary.
00:18:10.000 Hey, everybody, this is Charlie Kirk.
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00:19:07.000 That is preborn.org.
00:19:12.000 Joining us now is a fascinating thinker, and technically he calls himself an anarchist, which we can explore at a different time.
00:19:18.000 But I look forward to talking to him about the news of the day.
00:19:20.000 Michael Malice joins us now.
00:19:21.000 Michael, how are you doing?
00:19:22.000 I'm doing great, Charlie.
00:19:23.000 Glad to be here.
00:19:24.000 Michael, Trump is indicted.
00:19:26.000 Your reaction.
00:19:27.000 I think this is a good thing in the sense that I think Trump will be more useful for the country as a martyr than as a nominee.
00:19:35.000 And I think this is hopefully making a lot of conservatives realize who they're up against, that the Democratic Party and the Democratic Party establishment aren't playing games.
00:19:43.000 They're playing for keeps.
00:19:45.000 And hopefully, this will put some spine in the backs of some Republicans and Republican operatives.
00:19:49.000 So, yeah, so he will be the nominee, though.
00:19:51.000 So, what do you mean by that?
00:19:53.000 What I mean, first of all, I don't know that that's the case.
00:19:55.000 We don't know for certain, but well, almost 100%.
00:19:58.000 I could tell you his support's going to go up by 20 points.
00:20:01.000 But, sure, let's hold on.
00:20:04.000 But the thing that Charlie, you and I are going to agree on, he's also going to be running against the Republican Party establishment.
00:20:09.000 And you don't know what machinations are going to happen on the back end to make sure he's not on the ballot, to make sure you're not able to vote for him.
00:20:15.000 Organizations now will be able to say with a straight face that I can't accept political ads from someone who's been indicted.
00:20:21.000 So, these people play dirty, as you know.
00:20:24.000 So, even if he has the support of literally 100% of members of the party, that does not at all mean that their will will be able to be implemented in reality.
00:20:33.000 Okay, so keep up the argument.
00:20:34.000 I totally disagree, but what else do you got?
00:20:37.000 You don't disagree that people like the Republican Party will do whatever they can.
00:20:41.000 Yeah, that only makes me stronger, though, because it's the people.
00:20:44.000 I mean, I hope they do.
00:20:45.000 I mean, Donald Trump is 50 to 60 percent of support.
00:20:49.000 Good luck.
00:20:49.000 I mean, restricting TV ads, he doesn't need those.
00:20:52.000 He just drew 25,000 people in Waco, Texas.
00:20:55.000 Sure.
00:20:56.000 My point is: if you look at the inverse, what the Democratic Party did, how they dragged Joe Biden's carcass across the finish line in the nomination process, even though he had no support and was in fourth or fifth or something in Iowa, was it like sixth in New Hampshire?
00:21:08.000 I think it's really easy to say.
00:21:10.000 If you look at who the Speaker of the House is, if you look at who's running the Senate, I think the party establishment is a lot stronger.
00:21:17.000 Oh, I totally disagree.
00:21:18.000 They're so weird.
00:21:20.000 Kevin McCarthy wouldn't be speaker without Trump.
00:21:23.000 I mean, Trump could Trump could end him as Speaker today.
00:21:26.000 If Trump came out and said it's time for a vote of no confidence against Kevin, he's done.
00:21:29.000 McConnell has no power.
00:21:32.000 I really think that the power of the Republican establishment, if what you would say.
00:21:36.000 What power do they have?
00:21:38.000 Sure.
00:21:39.000 First of all, if Trump became president again, I think it would be very easy for Mitch McConnell to get a number of votes to get him out of office and in a third impeachment if that's what they want.
00:21:47.000 Oh, no, but that's fine.
00:21:48.000 But I'm talking about what power do they have before he becomes a nominee?
00:21:51.000 Sure.
00:21:52.000 So you have the power of creating criteria for who's going to get into the debates.
00:21:56.000 You have the power for been established.
00:22:00.000 So what else?
00:22:01.000 Listen, you're telling me that they can't change the rules once something like this happens?
00:22:04.000 No, but yeah, because you obviously don't know how the RNC debate committee goes.
00:22:07.000 It's already been passed.
00:22:08.000 The measures are in place.
00:22:09.000 Rona's not going to change it.
00:22:10.000 So what other power do they have?
00:22:12.000 The rules are whatever people in power decide they are, and they have every possibility.
00:22:19.000 Listen, do you want my opinion or do you want to hear me off?
00:22:23.000 You're just saying things that aren't true, but keep going.
00:22:25.000 Sure.
00:22:27.000 In my opinion, the Republican Party is very much hesitant in many ways to have Trump as the nominee because he holds their feet to the fire.
00:22:27.000 Okay.
00:22:37.000 They have a very good game in Washington where they play their role as the Washington Generals, the Democratic Party, the Harlem Globetrotters.
00:22:44.000 Trump comes in, he upsets that apple cart, and this upsets a lot of people.
00:22:48.000 And those people will do whatever they can, not necessarily they're going to be successful, to make sure that there will be consequences for Trump and the MAGA movement.
00:22:56.000 And I don't see how you can argue against that.
00:22:58.000 Okay, but you got to use specifics, right?
00:23:00.000 So those are abstractions.
00:23:03.000 So the debate is set.
00:23:04.000 How to get on the ballot as a primary is set, right?
00:23:07.000 The RNC.
00:23:08.000 You don't think those things can't be changed?
00:23:10.000 Well, of course, they can be changed, but will they be changed?
00:23:13.000 For example, the RNC is using Trump's image to raise millions of dollars.
00:23:16.000 He controls the RNC.
00:23:17.000 Rana wanted everything she wanted from Trump, right?
00:23:20.000 Every state party committee chair, like 40 out of 50, bow to Trump.
00:23:25.000 The RNC, the RNC committee members do, right?
00:23:27.000 Not to mention now 70 to 80 percent of the Republican donor base, small dollar donor base, does.
00:23:33.000 So you're right.
00:23:34.000 Yeah, the Republican establishment could raise hundreds of millions of dollars, but what power do they have except running TV ads and maybe putting up Mike Pence?
00:23:41.000 They may dislike Trump, but Trump controls the entire ecosystem of the conservative movement, and this only makes him more powerful.
00:23:50.000 I don't think that this is something to be taken lightly, an indictment.
00:23:56.000 I think that they're playing dirty politics, as I'm sure you agree.
00:23:59.000 And I think whenever you have charges against you as a citizen in this country, as Kyle Rittenhouse discovered, it's not something that's just going to be a cakewalk for you, regardless of your innocence or guilt.
00:24:11.000 No, I agree.
00:24:11.000 I'm not taking it lightly.
00:24:13.000 I think the Rubicon's been crossed.
00:24:14.000 But anyway, so I think he's going to be the nominee.
00:24:18.000 So why else do you think it's good for the country?
00:24:21.000 Well, I think it's good for the country and specifically for conservatives, because there's this enormous asymmetry between how Republicans play politics and how Democrats play politics.
00:24:30.000 The first thing George W. Bush did when he became president was to make sure that there are no criminal proceedings going on ahead against former President Clinton because he thought it would be a bad lick for the country.
00:24:40.000 Meanwhile, when Trump's in president, he's commuting the service, the sentences of Rod Bogoevich, who was a Democratic governor, Kwame Kilpatrick, who's a Democratic mayor.
00:24:48.000 And he's promising if he was become president that Hillary Clinton would be in jail if he ran the legal system.
00:24:55.000 Everyone laughed about this.
00:24:55.000 This was a great, great line.
00:24:57.000 Point being, would you rather be the people who are laughing or would you rather be the people who are doing the arresting?
00:25:03.000 I think it's very clear which of those organizations is the one who is more ruthless and more interested in seeing their goals implemented.
00:25:12.000 So then if you were to give advice to conservatives or Trump supporters, how would you handle this then?
00:25:18.000 Let's take your hypothesis, let's say the machine's going to do everything they can, which I think is right.
00:25:23.000 Let's say that machine is there.
00:25:25.000 How do you then fight it or how do you expose it effectively?
00:25:28.000 I think the best mechanism that activists and conservative people have is social media, because that is something where there's to some extent decentralized control.
00:25:40.000 Yes, they have their finger on the scale to a degree, but this is a good mechanism for getting stories out.
00:25:46.000 We've seen this over the last several years where certain news stories were presented in a certain way by corporate media, and then immediately the issue was blown up live in real time in a place like Twitter and Facebook.
00:25:57.000 An easy example is when you had all these reporters wearing masks to report on COVID, but the cameraman wasn't wearing a mask.
00:26:05.000 And as soon as their story was over, they took the mask off.
00:26:08.000 Everyone with the cell phone could just show it and put it up on social media and right away it was exposed as propaganda.
00:26:13.000 So to have people, if I was advising conservatives, I would be like, keep an eye on what these different states are doing, what these unelected bureaucrats and government and party officials are doing, and make sure to be able to hold them accountable to some extent, because they're going to be covering their own butts as much as possible.
00:26:31.000 So one of your opinions is that you think that Trump didn't go far enough in his first term.
00:26:37.000 What do you mean by that?
00:26:38.000 And how could that be different if he's able to navigate all of this?
00:26:41.000 And I do want to make sure, Michael, my position is clear.
00:26:44.000 I agree that the cockroaches are going to try to prevent Trump.
00:26:47.000 I just actually think the Republican Party and the establishment is nowhere near as Machiavellian, sophisticated as the Democrat Party, like the actual party infrastructure.
00:26:57.000 But we can put that aside.
00:26:58.000 Let's say he's able to do that.
00:26:59.000 What could he do differently if elected in 2024?
00:27:02.000 Or how could he run differently?
00:27:04.000 Sure.
00:27:05.000 To your point, I think you nailed the exact problem.
00:27:08.000 The Republican Party does need to be more Machiavellian.
00:27:11.000 They need to be able to bring the pain and to have consequences for their opponents when they're trying to get out of line.
00:27:16.000 An easy example was when President Obama was saying he was not going to enforce the laws against the DREAMers. 1.00
00:27:22.000 And Speaker of the House, John Boehner, said, this is a red line.
00:27:25.000 Mr. President, don't do this.
00:27:26.000 You're going to regret it.
00:27:27.000 Obama did it.
00:27:28.000 And then Boehner's like, well, what am I going to do?
00:27:30.000 So there always has to be, if there is a bad action on one's political foes, there has to be consequences for those actions.
00:27:37.000 Now, I'm not in a position to say what those consequences, I don't know what just happened there.
00:27:42.000 Yeah, I know Sabine is fizzing out.
00:27:44.000 Sorry.
00:27:44.000 Keep going though.
00:27:45.000 I don't know what those consequences need to be, but it certainly has to be repercussions in order to make sure that something like this doesn't happen again, no matter what the situation in the moment might happen to be.
00:27:55.000 Yeah, and it's an interesting situation because if he's able to govern again, I think he would have a mandate to actually purge a lot of these elements more than before.
00:28:05.000 And so, Michael, you have a lot of different opinions that you come on the show.
00:28:09.000 How do you think the Democrats generally are feeling about this?
00:28:13.000 I think that they are ecstatic.
00:28:16.000 I think the symbolism of a president former, you know, this was their big kahuna for years.
00:28:21.000 I think they're going to be beside themselves and rubbing in people's faces.
00:28:26.000 And this is going to alienate a lot of people who are moderates who just find this all distasteful.
00:28:31.000 But this is, they're going to, they can't help themselves, but take their victory lap because this is something that maybe they've been promising their people for years.
00:28:39.000 Yeah, I mean, do you think, I mean, the question is, is there a backfire?
00:28:44.000 Do you see that in the cards, a potential backfire?
00:28:47.000 I think the issue is like the big swing voter is Karen, you know, suburban white women.
00:28:53.000 And when they see just on the headlines, because they're not going to be particularly informed or reading the articles, you know, President Trump indicted, for many of them, that in and of itself is going to be enough to wash their hands of him.
00:29:04.000 So I think this is something that can't be taken lightly, not just in terms of the legal consequences, but in terms of the political consequences.
00:29:12.000 At the same time, I think it will help him a lot with his base, who will be like, all right, like there's no line that his opponents will be willing not to cross, and we have to react accordingly.
00:29:24.000 Yeah.
00:29:24.000 And the reason I, I mean, I see it.
00:29:26.000 I see it in the sentiment here.
00:29:27.000 I think it's going to reflect it in some of the short-term polls is people see this indictment as an indictment of them, as a personal attack on them.
00:29:35.000 And your argument is more, and on the primary side about the machinery of it, but I think, look, I think Trump term two could be bold and could be courageous.
00:29:45.000 We'll see.
00:29:46.000 So, Michael, I want to read an email we got.
00:29:48.000 Charlie, I agree with Michael.
00:29:51.000 The serpents are going to try everything they possibly can to prevent Trump.
00:29:54.000 I think he might prevail, but they're going to try every trap, every measure, every dirty trick.
00:29:58.000 Is that a summary in some ways, Michael, that what you were saying?
00:30:01.000 And can I read a quote from Trump?
00:30:01.000 Yes.
00:30:02.000 Because I want to hear your thoughts on it.
00:30:04.000 Okay.
00:30:04.000 Please.
00:30:04.000 This is from February 2nd, and this is my concern.
00:30:07.000 He was on Hugh Hewitt's show, and Hewitt said, if you're back on the oval, we'll use the powers of the presidency to punish people who punished you.
00:30:14.000 And Trump says, no, I wouldn't do that because I want to bring our country forward.
00:30:17.000 Some people think I will.
00:30:18.000 Some people think that's words, but I wouldn't.
00:30:20.000 I would be entitled to a revenge tour.
00:30:22.000 But if you want to know the truth, I wouldn't do that.
00:30:24.000 I want to straighten our border.
00:30:25.000 I want to get inflation down and so on and so forth.
00:30:28.000 But he said specifically he's not going to go in a revenge tour.
00:30:31.000 And Charlie, I know you have his phone number.
00:30:33.000 Obviously, I don't.
00:30:34.000 That is to me, maybe he's just saying that to get past the goalie.
00:30:38.000 That to me is the exact wrong approach.
00:30:40.000 I think you're right.
00:30:41.000 I harmonize with that.
00:30:42.000 He could be just saying that because it could be just, you know, blown up.
00:30:46.000 But I could say in some private conversations, I think he's going to want to purge some things.
00:30:51.000 And I think that would be great.
00:30:52.000 And so, so, Michael, you're one of the things that you talk about is overreach of government, you know, how rights are taken away from government.
00:31:01.000 Is it an overreaction or a mistake, in your opinion, if conservatives say, hey, the only way we're going to stop this is through some deterrence, that other AGs and DAs start indicting Democrats?
00:31:13.000 That's not, I don't find delight in that strategy, but is it necessary?
00:31:16.000 What are your thoughts?
00:31:18.000 I don't see how any action that gives someone political gains is going to stop unless there are political consequences.
00:31:28.000 If you look at Brett Kavanaugh, right?
00:31:30.000 The Democrats had him go on TV. 0.99
00:31:31.000 They accused him of being a drunken gang rapist.
00:31:34.000 Chuck Rasley wrote letters to either DOJ or FBI. 0.96
00:31:36.000 They ignored him.
00:31:37.000 There were no consequences.
00:31:39.000 Why wouldn't they do that again?
00:31:40.000 The only consequence they had was that they blew the midterms and they lost what would have been in control of the Senate.
00:31:45.000 Point being, if I do something and as a result of this, it helps me politically and there's no cost, why wouldn't I do it again?
00:31:52.000 And so you need to, I totally agree with that.
00:31:55.000 And there needs to be a check and balance.
00:31:56.000 What do you have to say to the people that might be in the more classical, liberal, libertarian where they say we can't get into a legal tit for tat.
00:32:04.000 I'm sure you hear that argument, right, Michael, that it makes us no better than them.
00:32:07.000 But I agree with you, by the way.
00:32:09.000 There's no escape.
00:32:10.000 You are in a legal tit for tap.
00:32:12.000 We're not in peaceful times.
00:32:13.000 We're in docile times. 0.70
00:32:15.000 These people would kill your kids if they had the opportunity and they'd brag about it on Facebook.
00:32:21.000 We saw during COVID, there were just open calls for people who wouldn't get vaccinated to be driven out of polite society and in many places incarcerated in camps.
00:32:30.000 So it's absolutely crazy to think that you just shrug your shoulders and be like, well, you know, this is just Trump.
00:32:35.000 I'm sure they're going to stop there.
00:32:36.000 Why would they stop?
00:32:38.000 Why would you expect them to?
00:32:39.000 Yeah, but Michael, it's interesting because I think the heart that you and I have is to not ever misuse government authority or power and to live, but that's not the country we're living in, is what I'm trying to, I mean, continue.
00:32:53.000 I'm an anarchist.
00:32:54.000 There's no misuse of government authority.
00:32:55.000 All government authority is misuse.
00:32:57.000 It's just power and power that you like.
00:32:57.000 I got it.
00:32:59.000 I understand, but I'm not an anarchist.
00:33:00.000 So I'm trying to find some harmony in our worldview where we don't find this to be a joyous moment to say that we need to use political power to at least even the playing field.
00:33:09.000 But in order to at least live in some semblance of a free society, it needs to happen.
00:33:14.000 We're living in a legal joust.
00:33:17.000 I don't want an even playing field.
00:33:20.000 I want to win.
00:33:21.000 So if you want to play fair, you can play fair against people who aren't.
00:33:25.000 It's like if I'm playing with you, Monopoly, and you're the bank and you're just funneling yourself money every so often.
00:33:29.000 I'm not going to win maybe one time out of 10 just due to luck.
00:33:32.000 So if even playing field has gone out the window, at least since FDR, where the, I forget who was in the brain trust who said, we will tax and tax and tax and spend and spend and spend and elect and elect and elect.
00:33:45.000 So that has been the operating assumption for politicians for over a century.
00:33:50.000 And that is just exactly how people need to realize how Washington works and politics works in general.
00:33:55.000 And people respond to incentives.
00:33:58.000 And yes.
00:33:59.000 And so riff on that for a second.
00:34:01.000 Well, that's a central aspect of conservatism versus progressivism.
00:34:04.000 Progressive has this idea that like, you know, people are generally nice and kind, and sometimes they make mistakes.
00:34:10.000 Whereas conservatives at their best understand, look, if you provide incentives for people to do things, sometimes they're going to do them.
00:34:16.000 If you don't criminalize shoplifting, some people who otherwise wouldn't have shoplifted be like, look, I got no cost.
00:34:22.000 If I take this, I'm going to get a free TV.
00:34:24.000 Why wouldn't I take the free TV?
00:34:26.000 So it's logical, but a large part of our corporate media and special entertainment is designed to negate this idea that human beings respond to incentives and sometimes they do awful things simply because they can and there's no cost to them and if there fails if there if there remains no cost they're only going to continue to do it and you said these are these are the people that would go after your children and put it on facebook what do you mean by that one minute remaining well simply if you You just look at Libs of TikTok and all sorts of things where many organizations,
00:34:55.000 Randy Weigarten, regards everyone's children as her own to raise.
00:34:59.000 And there's all these organizations who are just saying explicitly that parents don't know what they're doing and defer to the state or to unions or whoever the teacher is at the moment.
00:35:08.000 That is exactly what, and then they will brag about it, not just on Facebook, but on TikTok and on Twitter and every other form of social media.
00:35:14.000 That's my concern.
00:35:16.000 Michael, great dialogue.
00:35:17.000 Thank you.
00:35:18.000 And I think we see things eye to eye much more than it came across at the beginning.
00:35:23.000 So thank you for that.
00:35:23.000 Oh, yeah.
00:35:24.000 And check out your podcast.
00:35:25.000 You're welcome, by the way.
00:35:27.000 The misspelling is intentional, just so everyone's.
00:35:29.000 It's not misspelled.
00:35:30.000 This is your welcome.
00:35:32.000 Okay.
00:35:33.000 All right.
00:35:34.000 Thank you, Michael.
00:35:34.000 Appreciate it.
00:35:35.000 Thanks, Charlie.
00:35:36.000 People respond to incentives.
00:35:39.000 I think that was well articulated.
00:35:40.000 I just want to push back a little bit.
00:35:41.000 I want to always say with Michael, and I did it a little clumsier than I would have liked.
00:35:46.000 Been a long month this week.
00:35:47.000 What I was saying is that the Republican Party is actually largely broken.
00:35:51.000 Okay.
00:35:52.000 And yes, they are corrupt from a senatorial procedure, but from an actual nominating procedure, Trump has the people, and the people still run the Republican Party in a process of who becomes the nominee, despite how many games they're going to play.
00:36:05.000 But you should be vigilant and you should watch out.
00:36:07.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
00:36:08.000 Email us your thoughts as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.
00:36:11.000 Thanks so much for listening and God bless.
00:36:16.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk. com.