The Charlie Kirk Show - Donald Trump's Year of Lawfare

00:00:00.000 Hey, everybody, it's on the Charlie Kirk Show.

00:00:01.000 We talk with Matt Gates about how Congress has done nothing.

00:00:04.000 And secondly, we have Will Scharf, President Trump's attorney, for an update regarding his legal future.

00:00:11.000 You're not going to want to miss this update, comprehensive, your one-stop shop.

00:00:15.000 Email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:00:18.000 Subscribe to your podcast.

00:00:19.000 Open up your podcast application and type in Charlie Kirk Show.

00:00:23.000 Get involved with TurningPointUSA at tpusa.com.

00:00:26.000 That is tpusa.com.

00:00:27.000 Start a high school or college chapter today at tpusa.com.

00:00:31.000 Become a member today at members.charlikirk.com.

00:00:35.000 That is members.charlikirk.com.

00:00:37.000 Buckle up, everybody.

00:00:38.000 Here we go.

00:00:39.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:41.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

00:00:43.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

00:00:47.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:00:50.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:00:51.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:00:52.000 His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.

00:01:00.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

00:01:09.000 That's why we are here.

00:01:13.000 Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of the Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals.

00:01:23.000 Learn how you could protect your wealth with Noble Gold Investments at noblegoldinvestments.com.

00:01:29.000 That is noblegoldinvestments.com.

00:01:31.000 It's where I buy all of my gold.

00:01:33.000 Go to noblegoldinvestments.com.

00:01:38.000 I wish the Republican Party believed in the Fourth Amendment.

00:01:41.000 Joining us now is Matt Gates.

00:01:44.000 Matt, welcome to the program.

00:01:45.000 What happened last week?

00:01:47.000 Walk us through all of it, Matt Gates.

00:01:49.000 Speaker Johnson comes out and basically says the founding fathers were wrong.

00:01:52.000 That was really perplexing to me.

00:01:55.000 What's going on here?

00:01:56.000 It looks like Pfizer is going to get reauthorized.

00:01:58.000 It was especially perplexing to me because I spent seven years sitting next to Mike Johnson in the House Judiciary Committee, where he often made the critiques of FISA more eloquently and effectively than I ever did.

00:02:10.000 But we saw the 287,000 violations of FISA.

00:02:14.000 We saw the fact that they were breaking the law 38 times an hour.

00:02:17.000 And not to go after terrorists in foreign caves in Central Asia.

00:02:21.000 FBI agents were looking up their ex-lovers.

00:02:24.000 They were looking up their neighbors.

00:02:25.000 They were looking up sources and investigations they were doing.

00:02:28.000 And so they were really breaking that wall that exists between counterintelligence information and criminal information.

00:02:34.000 And of course, the most famous victim of FISA abuse is President Donald Trump.

00:02:38.000 Where we started last week was the Senate and the House leadership wanted a five-year reauthorization of FISA, and they were opposing a requirement for a warrant when there would be queries or collections on U.S. citizens.

00:02:53.000 They opposed a warrant requirement.

00:02:55.000 Andy Biggs thought we would have the votes to pass it.

00:02:58.000 He was working hard on it.

00:03:00.000 He was really the leader on that amendment.

00:03:02.000 And at the end of the day, we fell one vote short on the warrant requirement.

00:03:06.000 But in addition to moving on to that vote, I demanded that we not reauthorize FISA under any circumstance, under any reform, warrant, no warrant, reviews, no reviews beyond the Trump presidency.

00:03:21.000 It would be a grave sin of Congress to punt past Donald Trump the opportunity to actually get in there and fix this with administration officials who want to reform the system because we've already seen they're willing to go lawless.

00:03:34.000 So the reauthorization as a consequence of demands that the 19 made who voted against proceeding onto the rule cut 60% out of that authorization.

00:03:44.000 Now it's two years rather than five years.

00:03:46.000 We'll get a chance in the Trump administration.

00:03:48.000 But frankly, it was a deep disappointment that 86 Republicans, including the Speaker, including the Intelligence Committee Chairman, including people from my own delegation in Florida, voted with Democrats against the Fourth Amendment.

00:04:02.000 And isn't this something, Charlie?

00:04:04.000 We used to have a Democratic Party that was anti-war and pro-civil liberties, pro-thourth amendment.

00:04:10.000 Last week, you saw the Democrats with their majority pass the or kill the warrant requirement.

00:04:17.000 And this week, it will probably be the Democrats that provide the most votes for these foreign aid bills that I think cut against America's core interests.

00:04:26.000 Yeah, I hear you, Matt.

00:04:27.000 I just, the modern Democrat Party, I don't think should be the recipient of our criticism because they hate the country.

00:04:33.000 What happened to Speaker Johnson?

00:04:35.000 Why did he change his mind?

00:04:36.000 Is he being blackmailed?

00:04:37.000 I don't have any evidence to believe that.

00:04:40.000 When I spoke to the speaker, I said, look, Mike, you and I were in these wars together.

00:04:43.000 If you went and became speaker and encountered some information that radically transformed your views on this, you have an obligation to show me what that is and try to convince me I was your brother in arms.

00:04:55.000 And everything I've seen from the people on the intelligence committee to try to justify this only makes me want to fight for the reforms harder.

00:05:04.000 I mean, Mike Turner basically fabricated an international incident in order to block our efforts to get FISA reforms weeks ago.

00:05:13.000 And now I think you had folks, you had folks unnecessarily frightened into voting against the Constitution, which is a very dangerous place for our country to be.

00:05:23.000 So, yeah, I mean, I spoke to people in leadership, including, I didn't speak, I texted with the speaker.

00:05:28.000 He said, if you knew what I knew, you would vote for this.

00:05:31.000 Innocent Americans will die if you don't have to get a warrant. 0.99

00:05:36.000 And then he said that many members who voted against this didn't go to the SCIF.

00:05:40.000 Did you go to the SCIF, Matt?

00:05:41.000 What is being shared in these meetings?

00:05:43.000 Why can't they share with the American people?

00:05:46.000 Why do we have to resort to secret society shadow tactics?

00:05:50.000 I have been in SCIFs for the last seven years getting these intelligence briefings.

00:05:54.000 And by the way, I not only get them as a member of the Judiciary Committee, I'm also on the Armed Services Committee.

00:05:59.000 So I'm on the cyber subcommittee where I get the offensive and defensive briefings every single quarter about what's going on in the world and specifically some of the intelligence that we're getting off of 702.

00:06:12.000 And there's nothing here that would have put the country in danger by administering a warrant requirement because you and I both know there's a duty judge on 24-7.

00:06:21.000 If you've got probable cause, you're going to be able to get an affidavit on that probable cause and to be able to proceed immediately.

00:06:28.000 And again, this isn't foreigners in faraway land.

00:06:30.000 This is if you want to do searches and queries on Americans.

00:06:33.000 Just imagine a circumstance in which you're trying to get customer service through a call center and they route you to some foreign place and there happens to be some guy who also works at the call center who's got a cousin who wandered by a jihadist meeting.

00:06:48.000 Now all of a sudden, are you going to be open to some expansive collection?

00:06:52.000 I'm also very worried about the way that FISA was expanded to access Wi-Fi.

00:06:58.000 I do not believe if you're on public Wi-Fi at a McDonald's or a public library, you should have a different envelope of Fourth Amendment protections than if you're walking down a public street.

00:07:09.000 And when you start bifurcating the Fourth Amendment, you erode our liberties.

00:07:13.000 The Democrats used to believe in that.

00:07:15.000 Now, again, I will say, you know, you want to be critical of Republicans, but a majority of Republicans voted for the Fourth Amendment requirements.

00:07:23.000 It was a majority of Democrats who voted against them.

00:07:26.000 No, I understand that, but I expect every Republican to actually honor the Constitution.

00:07:30.000 Any Democrat that happens to mistakenly stumble into the Constitution.

00:07:35.000 Fine, sure.

00:07:36.000 Welcome aboard.

00:07:37.000 So is that it then, Matt?

00:07:38.000 The FBI has super governmental powers and we have to hope for Trump to do this in the future.

00:07:44.000 There's a reconsideration vote based on a motion made by Ana Paulina Luna.

00:07:48.000 So, I guess if people have been feeling the heat in their districts over the last few days, you could see it.

00:07:53.000 But I think that's an improbable outcome.

00:07:55.000 But there is a motion to reconsider.

00:07:57.000 And then, what will the Senate do?

00:07:58.000 Will the Senate accept the House bill and pass it with the 50-plus reforms that, again, I believe are insufficient, but are at least something?

00:08:06.000 Or will the Senate try to send back a five-year reauthorization that strips President Trump of his ability to really work on this?

00:08:14.000 They were never really too excited about a two-year reauthorization.

00:08:18.000 So, it remains to be seen how the Senate will react.

00:08:18.000 They wanted five years.

00:08:21.000 So, a few more tectonic plates to shift, but all signs point to FISA being reauthorized in a way that doesn't include a warrant and for a shorter period of time than they wanted.

00:08:30.000 But certainly, we would have wished we could have had two or three more votes to get that warrant requirement on the bill.

00:08:36.000 Yeah, it's just, and is it true that Lauren Boebert was out with the flu that day?

00:08:40.000 Is that right?

00:08:41.000 That she would have been a tie-breaking vote. 0.87

00:08:43.000 Lauren Bobert was there and voting and voted with me. 0.85

00:08:46.000 Congresswoman Debbie Lesko of Arizona did not vote.

00:08:50.000 She claimed she would have supported a warrant requirement, and she claimed she had the flu, and that was the reason she was not there to vote.

00:08:58.000 Got it.

00:08:58.000 So, it's yeah, just one vote very well could have changed the course of history, and the leviathan remains unchecked.

00:09:06.000 Matt, speaking candidly, what can we share with Republican voters as to why their party cares about them?

00:09:13.000 I think Republicans have been fighting insufficiently, and I think we have to take drastic measures now.

00:09:19.000 It's usually considered like a war crime in this town if you oppose a Republican incumbent in a primary.

00:09:25.000 And I think the only way we're going to inspire Republican voters is to give them better choices.

00:09:31.000 And that's why I'm supporting Brandon Herrera against Tony Gonzalez in the state of Texas.

00:09:36.000 And it's why I'm supporting Trent Staggs against my colleague John Curtis in the Senate race in Utah.

00:09:43.000 I notice you've been doing some campaigning in Utah as well for Trent Staggs.

00:09:47.000 But that's the only way we're going to be able to inspire people because if you look at our record, we've spent money at Nancy Pelosi's levels.

00:09:54.000 We refused to utilize leverage to shut down the border.

00:09:58.000 Instead, we've surrendered the border to third world narcos and thugs and criminals. 0.99

00:10:03.000 And now we just largely surrendered an expansion of spying authorities to the bureaucrats.

00:10:08.000 So when you're losing on the border, losing on the bureaucrats, losing on the budget, I think a lot of voters are right to look at Republicans and say, What is it that you will do for me in the face of an unprecedented onslaught by people in power on the left who wield that power excessively?

00:10:25.000 I mean, look, as we're talking right now, you've seen a coordinated federal system to try to ensnare Donald Trump in lawfare to limit the reaches of his presidential campaign.

00:10:37.000 And I think that knowing the fight we are in is so important.

00:10:41.000 And we are right now in the heat of the primary cycle.

00:10:43.000 Look, the establishment tried to take out Brandon Gill in Texas, and we got him through that primary as a consequence of the terrific campaign he ran.

00:10:51.000 So all around the country, we got to get better candidates.

00:10:54.000 And frankly, it means taking on more incumbents.

00:10:56.000 It's uncomfortable to address it that way, but you have to change the people.

00:11:00.000 You've been voting great, Matt.

00:11:01.000 I just, I speak for our audience.

00:11:03.000 I see no difference between Republicans and Democrats in Congress most days.

00:11:09.000 Are you ready to lose weight, but not sure where to start?

00:11:10.000 I understand.

00:11:11.000 I was right where you are two years ago.

00:11:13.000 Let me tell you why I chose the PhD weight loss and nutrition program.

00:11:16.000 First, Dr. Ashley Lucas has her PhD in chronic disease and sparse nutrition.

00:11:20.000 Her program is based on years of research and is science-based.

00:11:23.000 Second, the PhD program starts nutrition.

00:11:25.000 There's so much more.

00:11:26.000 They know that 90% of permanent change comes from the mind, and they work on eliminating the reason you gain this weight in the first place.

00:11:32.000 There's no shortcuts, pills, or injections, just solid, science-based nutrition and behavior change.

00:11:36.000 And finally, probably most importantly, I lost 30 pounds.

00:11:38.000 Look, they're amazing.

00:11:39.000 If you want to lose weight, you've got to go to myphdweightloss.com.

00:11:42.000 I was just texting with Dr. Ashley Lucas today.

00:11:44.000 If you're ready to lose weight for the last time, call 864-644-1900.

00:11:49.000 Go online at myphdweightloss.com.

00:11:51.000 Do what I did and what hundreds of my listeners have done and call today, 864-644-1900.

00:11:57.000 I recommend their program.

00:11:58.000 Dr. Ashley Lucas has her PhD in chronic disease and sports nutrition.

00:12:02.000 Her program is based on years of research and is science-based.

00:12:05.000 Second, the PhD program starts nutrition, but it's so much more.

00:12:08.000 Go to myphdweightloss.com, myphdweightloss.com, call 864-644-1900.

00:12:15.000 I lost over 30 pounds.

00:12:16.000 Dr. Ashley Lucas, great American.

00:12:17.000 Check it out.

00:12:18.000 Myphdweightloss.com.

00:12:22.000 So, Matt, we didn't get any win on the spending.

00:12:25.000 We haven't gotten a win on the border.

00:12:27.000 We didn't get a win on FISA.

00:12:28.000 Israel-Ukraine, what is the strategy?

00:12:30.000 I am not going to vote to send more money to Ukraine.

00:12:33.000 I'm worried about an escalatory accident there.

00:12:35.000 I also think that Ukraine is very likely to run out of men before they run out of bullets.

00:12:40.000 And we're going to be asking ourselves in that conflict, sort of what we're doing there in the reality where Europe can stop that war anytime they want to.

00:12:49.000 And I worry we're becoming the world's police force and the world's piggy bank.

00:12:52.000 I think there's a lot more sympathy to be involved with Israel.

00:12:55.000 To have Israel under attack by Iran is totally unacceptable. 0.98

00:12:58.000 Iran's actions were escalatory and deserve universal condemnation. 1.00

00:13:02.000 I thought the best way to support Israel was to take the money out of the United Nations. 0.71

00:13:08.000 It's about a pretty comparable amount of money that we give to all these UN programs that would meet the needs that Israel has laid out for us in largely replenishing the Iron Dome.

00:13:17.000 And a lot of that industry happens in the United States.

00:13:20.000 Matter of fact, a lot of it happens in the state of Florida.

00:13:22.000 And so I would love to drain money out of UNRWA, drain money out of the UN to ensure that we're able to meet the needs of a defensive posture that Israel is taking in a very aggressive neighborhood. 0.68

00:13:36.000 So what do you think the position of the speaker will be on Ukraine?

00:13:40.000 Are you talking about this as a loan, which I think is such a idea at all?

00:13:44.000 That's just Washington, D.C. speak for we're, you know, we're never going to get that money back.

00:13:49.000 So it's a cope, right?

00:13:51.000 Isn't it a cope?

00:13:52.000 Of course it is.

00:13:53.000 So tell us, Matt, then, what is this?

00:13:56.000 When is this going to come to a vote?

00:13:57.000 Do you think we have a chance to block it?

00:14:00.000 A majority of Republicans oppose the last measure to fund Ukraine.

00:14:05.000 The next measure to fund Ukraine will take shape, I believe, this week.

00:14:09.000 The speaker has indicated support for funding Ukraine.

00:14:12.000 I do not support that.

00:14:14.000 And the speaker has also indicated that he didn't want to lump all of these bills together in previous public comments.

00:14:20.000 However, you feel about Israel, Ukraine, Taiwan, these questions deserve their own dignity.

00:14:26.000 The conflict in Taiwan is very different than the conflict in Ukraine, which is very different than the conflict in Israel.

00:14:32.000 It's great power competition versus asymmetric threats.

00:14:36.000 And so I just think lumping them all together is a way to give people political cover to vote for Ukraine when they otherwise wouldn't.

00:14:44.000 And I don't think that our sympathies for Israel should drag Ukraine across the finish line.

00:14:50.000 Now, when it comes to the likelihood of the outcome that you've queried, I believe the fact that every Democrat wants to fund Ukraine is likely to be dispositive because even though it's a minority of Republicans who want to fund it, when you lash that to every single Democrat, I think it's two-thirds or more that likely support that.

00:15:10.000 And while Kevin McCarthy authorized $115 billion to Ukraine, Mike Johnson hasn't authorized any yet.

00:15:17.000 I do believe he's probably likely to break the seal this week in moving some Ukraine legislation to the floor.

00:15:23.000 I hope it's not lashed to Israel or Taiwan or frankly any other matter.

00:15:28.000 Yeah, I'm cynical too.

00:15:29.000 I'm expectant for our country to be further betrayed.

00:15:34.000 Why don't we have that kind of urgency on the border?

00:15:37.000 I think that there is just sort of a willingness to surrender on the border among too many Washington Republicans.

00:15:44.000 I would not send so much as a Mother's Day resolution over to the United States Senate unless it had our legislation on it to say only U.S. citizens can vote in U.S. elections.

00:15:54.000 That will make a huge difference in a world in which the Biden administration has let in 10 million plus people, and we're seeing efforts to try to allow people to vote with just the documentation or social security number you get as a part of this broken asylum process that is really just amnesty and drag.

00:16:12.000 So that's critically important if we cared about the border.

00:16:14.000 Also, we should not have agreed to fund these large spending bills in the absence of real concessions on the border.

00:16:20.000 I made that argument.

00:16:21.000 I made it loudly and I lost.

00:16:23.000 And that's why I'm out all over the country on the campaign trail campaigning against Republicans who are voting for these bad spending bills, bad government spying bills, in the absence of the reforms that our voters are demanding.

00:16:35.000 So, any hope, Matt, on Ukraine?

00:16:38.000 On just all of it.

00:16:39.000 I mean, we have no win.

00:16:41.000 I have hope.

00:16:41.000 Look, we have yet to strike a single win.

00:16:45.000 Yeah, it is a fair question.

00:16:47.000 Chip Roy often asks: you know, what is it the Republicans have delivered for you?

00:16:50.000 And I think that some have said in our private meetings, well, at least we've been here to stop the next American rescue plan.

00:16:58.000 Mike Johnson spent no more or no less than the fiscal responsibility act that Kevin McCarthy and Joe Biden negotiated.

00:17:06.000 I think we should have and could have done a lot better than that.

00:17:08.000 I view that as a failure on the budgeting process.

00:17:11.000 And so, yeah, I mean, we're not going to win with the team we have.

00:17:15.000 That's the bottom line.

00:17:16.000 If you're waiting around for the next win, you have a governing coalition right now in the Uniparty that is against Fourth Amendment rights, that is for more wars, and doesn't give a damn about reducing spending or making things on the border.

00:17:28.000 So that's why we got to get different people.

00:17:29.000 That's the only conclusion I can draw from this: Republican primary voters have to stand up and be against some of the people voting against them.

00:17:36.000 Matt, keep fighting.

00:17:38.000 I wouldn't want your job right now.

00:17:40.000 It's loss after loss after loss.

00:17:42.000 Thanks so much.

00:17:44.000 We'll keep in the battle.

00:17:45.000 Thanks, man.

00:17:45.000 Yeah, it's a righteous one.

00:17:47.000 Hey there, investing feels overwhelming right now, doesn't it?

00:17:50.000 So complicated, so many decisions.

00:17:52.000 But leaving your money in the bank, not so great.

00:17:55.000 It's losing value every single day.

00:17:57.000 So if it's stressing you out and driving you nuts, invest with Noble Gold Investments.

00:18:02.000 Their precious metals are simple and real.

00:18:05.000 There isn't a company on the stock market that was around 2,000 years ago, but gold was.

00:18:09.000 It's always been there through wars, disasters, and turmoil.

00:18:12.000 Reliable, dependable, and authentic.

00:18:15.000 That's why you can't go wrong with precious metals.

00:18:17.000 They've always had your back.

00:18:18.000 Noble Gold Investments, American-based experts, will show you how to set and forget your IRA or 401k.

00:18:25.000 You'll get a dedicated professional assigned to you.

00:18:28.000 No hassle, no call centers.

00:18:30.000 Colin Plume runs Noble Gold Investments.

00:18:33.000 We've had him on the show before.

00:18:34.000 He's awesome.

00:18:35.000 I love hanging out with him.

00:18:36.000 He's terrific.

00:18:36.000 I can vouch for his integrity and for his knowledge about gold and silver.

00:18:42.000 In fact, I have my silver right next to me right here.

00:18:44.000 I buy all of my gold from Noble Gold Investments.

00:18:46.000 I have vetted them top to bottom.

00:18:48.000 In fact, I know a billionaire that just made a very big purchase of gold from Noble Gold Investments.

00:18:52.000 So visit NobleGoldInvestments.com to claim your gold coin.

00:18:55.000 This month, Noble Gold Investments is giving a free quarter ounce gold standard coin at its qualifying IRA investment.

00:19:01.000 That is noblegoldinvestments.com, noblegoldinvestments.com.

00:19:08.000 Will Scharf joins the program now, one of President Trump's attorneys.

00:19:11.000 Will, you've been doing an excellent job defending the president.

00:19:14.000 I hate to have you do this.

00:19:15.000 I know you have it kind of on autopilot now.

00:19:18.000 Walk us through what is in contention here.

00:19:21.000 What are the facts?

00:19:22.000 Take as much time as you need because people, they live busy lives.

00:19:25.000 I do this for a living.

00:19:26.000 I forget all the details associated with this. 0.62

00:19:28.000 This is an old story, a ridiculous case that they rose from the dead for political purposes.

00:19:34.000 Will Sharf walk us through it?

00:19:36.000 Yeah, that's exactly right, Charlie.

00:19:37.000 This New York criminal case that's been brought by Soros-funded DA, Alvin Bragg.

00:19:43.000 It used to be referred to as the zombie case because no one wanted to touch it because of its clear legal frailties.

00:19:51.000 Basically, it's called a hush money case, but it's not really about hush money at all.

00:19:57.000 What this is about is business records, business records that were made in 2017 that recorded payments from Trump and the Trump organization to attorney Michael Cohen.

00:20:09.000 And those business records listed those payments as legal retainer fees.

00:20:13.000 And the allegation is that in actuality, those fees weren't for legal services at all, that they were either to cover up hush money payments used for election purposes.

00:20:25.000 The theory of liability has never entirely been clear.

00:20:29.000 But what's an issue here is whether President Trump purposely made false business records, created false business records in 2017.

00:20:39.000 So this is a case involving conduct from half a decade ago that has no business in any courtroom, much less being tried in a courtroom at the height of a presidential election.

00:20:50.000 We believe that it's been brought for fundamentally political purposes.

00:20:54.000 And yet we see the spectacle here in New York today where President Trump is forced to be in a courtroom.

00:20:59.000 He'll likely be in a courtroom a lot over the next six weeks or so instead of being out campaigning.

00:21:05.000 It's election interference at its highest.

00:21:09.000 It's crazy that this is going on right now.

00:21:12.000 But I have full confidence in both President Trump and the team he has around him.

00:21:16.000 I think that if this case were presented to a fair jury in a fair courtroom, there's no question that he would be acquitted.

00:21:23.000 Will, I totally agree.

00:21:24.000 I mean, you've been a prosecutor here.

00:21:26.000 Let's go through the things you would never do as a prosecutor that this prosecutor is doing.

00:21:31.000 Let's list them off.

00:21:32.000 What, just please, as far as reaching for novel theories saying that this is covering up a crime when he's never been charged with a crime, Will, this is like against prosecutorial conduct 101.

00:21:45.000 You're a very accomplished prosecutor.

00:21:47.000 Walk us through it.

00:21:49.000 First of all, I mean, this prosecution proceeded from the standpoint of let's prosecute Trump.

00:21:56.000 You can't do that.

00:21:57.000 That as a prosecutor, you're trained to let the facts lead you, to never let politics or political considerations come into play.

00:22:06.000 This is a classic case of, you know, you show me the man and I'll show you the lawsuit.

00:22:12.000 I'll show you the prosecution.

00:22:14.000 This whole thing is really just about interfering with President Trump's ability to campaign, and that's just wrong.

00:22:22.000 In terms of the minutia of the case, there are some things I can say.

00:22:25.000 There are some things I can't say because of a wildly unconstitutional gag order that's been imposed against us here.

00:22:32.000 But I will say that the star witness, the key witness here is Michael Cohen.

00:22:38.000 I can't say anything about what his testimony might be, but I will say that this is a man who several previous courts have found to be a perjurer.

00:22:47.000 The idea as a prosecutor that you would rest your case on the testimony of a witness who just isn't credible for that reason, it's crazy to me.

00:22:56.000 It's not something we would have ever done when I was an assistant U.S. attorney if we had a witness who'd previously lied in court and that the case revolved around that witness.

00:23:06.000 You take a serious look at whether to bring that indictment in the first place at all.

00:23:10.000 Here we have a scenario where Alvin Bragg decided that he wanted to indict Trump at all costs, and they resurrected this crazy case from the graveyard where bad cases go to die.

00:23:21.000 And now we're seeing the results of that decision.

00:23:23.000 It's absolutely outrageous.

00:23:25.000 Yeah, and I know, so I know you can't speak on certain things because of the gag orders.

00:23:30.000 Let's speak about the gag order.

00:23:31.000 What is a gag order?

00:23:33.000 How unprecedented is this?

00:23:35.000 Don't get yourself in trouble, Will.

00:23:36.000 Just dance around it.

00:23:38.000 No, this gag order is absolutely unprecedented.

00:23:41.000 In American history, before President Trump, no candidate for public office had ever faced a gag order.

00:23:48.000 No court had ever upheld a gag order against a candidate for public office, any candidate for public office, much less the leading candidate for president of the United States of America.

00:23:58.000 The gag order in this case prohibits us from talking about potential witnesses, even while those witnesses are up on TV and on podcasts every day, trashing President Trump and trashing his defense.

00:24:11.000 It prohibits us from talking about family members of the judge.

00:24:15.000 We've moved to recuse the judge here, Judge Murshon, based on what we believe are irretrievable conflicts relating to family members of his.

00:24:24.000 This gag order, it's wildly unconstitutional.

00:24:27.000 It should be overturned.

00:24:29.000 And we've seen this time and time again in Trump's cases, most notably in Washington, D.C., where Judge Tanya Chutkin entered a wildly overbroad gag order, which was then pared back to almost nothing or pared back very significantly by the D.C. circuit on appeal.

00:24:46.000 But this is, I mean, when we talk about election interference, prohibiting the leading candidate for the presidency from talking about matters of public interest, including these trials against him, it's absolutely insane.

00:24:58.000 It's a perversion both of our legal system and of our system of elections.

00:25:02.000 And it should be terrifying to Americans of all political stripes, frankly.

00:25:07.000 Here's what I can say because I'm not under a gag order.

00:25:09.000 Judge Juan Murchon is a partisan Democrat who donated to Joe Biden.

00:25:13.000 Judge Mershon's daughter, Lauren Mershon, runs a progressive consulting firm that raised $93 million for Adam Schiff and Senate Majority Pack, which means that if she takes like 5% of that, that's $4 million.

00:25:26.000 Trump was slapped at the gag order for pointing out how the family makes money off of attacking Trump.

00:25:30.000 It's all rigged.

00:25:31.000 And I want to get into that, Will, more broadly.

00:25:33.000 You are someone that's dedicated your life to the American justice system, to the sacred tradition of guilt, innocent until proven guilty, and checks and balances, and separation of powers, and the rule of law.

00:25:46.000 We believe that this will not discredit Trump or destroy Trump, but it very well might permanently discredit the American justice system or let's just say the justice system in New York or certain pockets.

00:25:58.000 Your reaction, Will Sharf.

00:26:00.000 Yeah, I think that's exactly right.

00:26:02.000 And look, everything you just said about Judge Mershon, we've said in court pleadings and more.

00:26:07.000 New York's rules on recusal are actually quite clear and quite strict, and we think recusal is absolutely warranted here.

00:26:14.000 In terms of your broader point, the fear here is that when you have political prosecutions, when you have the weaponization of law enforcement and of the courts for blatantly political ends, as you said, that undercuts Americans' confidence in our most basic institutions, in the rule of law itself.

00:26:35.000 And once that confidence is lost, you're not going to get it back.

00:26:38.000 That's what's so scary about this left-wing campaign to indict Trump in all these different courthouses, to drag him into court at every opportunity.

00:26:47.000 They think they're defending democracy or whatever the heck else they talk about.

00:26:51.000 What they're actually doing is undermining our Constitution, undermining the rule of law, and frankly, undermining the entire American experiment in a way that's not going to be easily retrievable in the future.

00:27:03.000 It is so scary and so dangerous that I hope that free-thinking, even-minded people, even on the left, wake up to what they're doing and wake up to the dangers inherent in what's going on here.

00:27:16.000 Will, it is the dangers inherent are legitimate.

00:27:20.000 And how long do you think this trial is going to last?

00:27:22.000 And is it true that Donald Trump has to sit through all this?

00:27:25.000 By the way, Maggie Haberman just tweeted.

00:27:26.000 I think this is hilarious.

00:27:28.000 Trump appears to be sleeping.

00:27:29.000 His head keeps drooping and his mouth goes slack.

00:27:32.000 That's exactly how all of us would act in like the intro to gender studies class at the University of Missouri.

00:27:38.000 But I think it's hilarious.

00:27:39.000 So, how long is this going to last?

00:27:41.000 Let me speak to the Haberman thing.

00:27:43.000 Look, I've been in court with President Trump, and I've always found him to be highly attentive, highly interested in what's going on.

00:27:49.000 When I was last in court with him in front of the DC circuit, it's been publicly reported that he was passing notes to me and had real questions about what was going on.

00:27:58.000 So, I find that very, very difficult to believe.

00:28:02.000 But, yes, I mean, this is a trial that's expected to last between six and eight weeks.

00:28:06.000 A lot of that is going to be jury selection because it is so tough to seat an unbiased jury in light of the saturation media coverage, in light of the ongoing presidential election.

00:28:18.000 That's one of the reasons we moved to have this trial delayed until after the election.

00:28:22.000 After jury trial concludes, after jury selection concludes, which will likely be in about three weeks, if I had to guess, then we're looking at a two to three week long trial, maybe more.

00:28:34.000 But I mean, again, we're at the height of a presidential election.

00:28:38.000 And as you said, the leading presidential candidate is going to have to sit through every day of this trial: Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, every single day that court is in session.

00:28:49.000 Court's not in session on Wednesdays until this trial concludes.

00:28:53.000 If that's not election interference, I don't know what is.

00:28:56.000 President Trump's going to have to be in court in New York instead of taking his message to the American people.

00:29:01.000 And we all know how effective a messenger he is.

00:29:03.000 Well, I also just want to reiterate, everybody, you know, this wears you down.

00:29:06.000 So, this is kind of the grind him down strategy.

00:29:10.000 Think about it.

00:29:10.000 You got to wake up early, go into court, get ridiculed in a Soviet show trial, and then maybe at night, right, Will, you might have a rally in Michigan.

00:29:17.000 You might be able to get on a plane, go do a rally in Michigan, land in New York by midnight, wake up at 6 a.m., get, you know, wears full suit and tie.

00:29:25.000 Everyone's photographing you.

00:29:26.000 That much flying wears you down.

00:29:28.000 This is all part of the grind him down campaign strategy.

00:29:31.000 And every hour he's in a courtroom is an hour he can't be raising capital, is an hour he can't be calling donors.

00:29:37.000 I'm a big logistics guy.

00:29:38.000 I run a big organization.

00:29:39.000 We have 550 employees.

00:29:41.000 I know what it takes to run big things.

00:29:43.000 A presidential campaign is like the biggest thing.

00:29:46.000 And I can't imagine you have to sit in a place where you have to be attentive.

00:29:49.000 Your future, your legal health, your legal status is in jeopardy.

00:29:55.000 They know what they're doing here.

00:29:59.000 For years, I've been talking about our nation's public schools have been captured by progressive ideologues, especially true if you're a Christian family.

00:30:05.000 For those of you worried about the best educational path to your kids and grandkids, I want to tell you about how Turning Point Academy is working with the Herzog Foundation, how you at home can also benefit from it.

00:30:14.000 They have an online publication called The Lion, and also making the leap.

00:30:17.000 The Herzog Foundation offers a wide range of advice and information for Christian parents to make the best education decisions for your kids.

00:30:23.000 Go to Herzogfoundation.com.

00:30:24.000 That is Herzogfoundation.com.

00:30:26.000 So check it out right now, Herzogfoundation.com.

00:30:29.000 Portions of the Charlie Kirk Show are brought to you in part by the Stanley M. Herzog Foundation.

00:30:33.000 That is Herzogfoundation.com.

00:30:38.000 So I'm a logistics guy in the sense that I'm constantly on the road.

00:30:42.000 I've spent last, the year before last, I did 330 days on the road, 330 days on the road.

00:30:48.000 I know what that does to you.

00:30:50.000 Can't imagine running for president, having to be actively in court, have to be ridiculed, dealing with all those details.

00:30:57.000 In the back of your head, you're like, boy, my opponent, Joe Biden, is raising billions of dollars.

00:31:05.000 He doesn't have to do any of this.

00:31:06.000 He doesn't even run the United States government.

00:31:09.000 So Will Scharf talk about the logistics of this.

00:31:11.000 He has to be in court every single day except Wednesday.

00:31:14.000 Is that right?

00:31:15.000 Yeah, every day the court is in session, President Trump will be there.

00:31:19.000 And it's not like with Joe Biden, where if he gets tired, they can just call a lid.

00:31:24.000 His schedule is not his own.

00:31:25.000 And that's absolutely crazy.

00:31:27.000 As you indicated, traveling takes a toll.

00:31:31.000 Being in court takes a toll.

00:31:33.000 Everything takes time.

00:31:34.000 And President Trump is a man with boundless energy.

00:31:37.000 Those of us who have spent time with him know that probably all too well.

00:31:41.000 But this is a coordinated campaign to interfere with his ability to campaign effectively for office.

00:31:47.000 And we need to call it what it is.

00:31:49.000 Yeah.

00:31:49.000 And so the schematics then are Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, every single week.

00:31:55.000 No Saturday, no Sunday.

00:31:56.000 Is that correct?

00:31:57.000 That's correct.

00:31:58.000 There's likely going to be some sort of a break for the Jewish holiday of Passover, which starts next week.

00:32:03.000 We're not sure, at least last time I checked, we were not sure exactly about the details there.

00:32:09.000 But yeah, the court schedule is Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, every week until the trial concludes, which could be a long time.

00:32:16.000 I mean, jury selection itself is going to take a very long time in this case.

00:32:21.000 Again, because of the media saturation and just how difficult it's going to be to seat unbiased jurors here.

00:32:28.000 So this is, we're in for a long haul.

00:32:30.000 This case is not going to be a quick in and out sort of endeavor.

00:32:33.000 So who made the decision not to televise this?

00:32:36.000 This would have been the most watched live stream television trial in history.

00:32:41.000 Well, look, a lot of this trial is going to revolve around relatively boring business records testimony.

00:32:46.000 So I'm not sure if people would actually really be glued to their TVs for that.

00:32:50.000 I mean, they call it a hush money trial, but it really has very little to do with hush money and has much more to do with the arcana of New York business records law.

00:32:58.000 I believe the decision was made by the judge in this case not to televise.

00:33:03.000 I don't know exactly how that decision was made.

00:33:06.000 But look, anything to reduce the media circus around this crazy trial, I think is important.

00:33:11.000 I was down outside the courthouse this morning.

00:33:13.000 I mean, you have more TV trucks down in that little cluster of New York than you probably have in some fairly large-sized states.

00:33:21.000 It's pretty insane just how wall-to-wall the coverage has been.

00:33:25.000 And I think that's really the plan here.

00:33:28.000 Distract from the fact that we're on the verge of World War III in the Middle East, distract from our country's terrible, moribund economy, distract from inflation, distract from the crisis at the border, distract from all the failures of the Biden administration, and instead focus the entire country's attention on this case that, as we said before, should have never been brought, that relates to events that happened the better part of a decade ago, and that really has no business in any courtroom,

00:33:56.000 much less in a courtroom with the defendant being a leading candidate for president.

00:34:02.000 Will, final thoughts here.

00:34:04.000 As far as we've been through the timeline, we've been through kind of all the different legal arguments and some of the minutiae regarding that.

00:34:13.000 Let's just kind of go big picture.

00:34:15.000 There are other legal cases that might pop up, federal cases.

00:34:18.000 Do you think that Trump's going to be in a federal courthouse before election day?

00:34:22.000 Yeah, look, actually, while we were on this call, we filed our reply brief in front of the U.S. Supreme Court on our presidential immunity appeal, which the Supreme Court is going to hear a week from Thursday.

00:34:34.000 I don't believe that any other criminal trial will make it to trial before the election.

00:34:39.000 I think we're pretty good on that point, especially if we win at the Supreme Court on presidential immunity.

00:34:46.000 And that's good.

00:34:47.000 But again, I mean, for the next six to eight weeks, President Trump is going to be tied down in this New York thing, and that's just outrageous.

00:34:54.000 All right.

00:34:54.000 Will Sharf, thank you so much.

00:34:56.000 Excellent work.

00:34:57.000 We'll talk to you soon.

00:34:57.000 Thank you.

00:34:58.000 Great.

00:34:58.000 Great to be with you, Charlie.

00:34:59.000 Thanks.

00:35:02.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:35:04.000 Email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:35:06.000 Thanks so much for listening, and God bless.

00:35:11.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk dot com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - April 15, 2024

Donald Trump's Year of Lawfare

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript