The Charlie Kirk Show - Down with the SPLC + The Greatness of Justice Alito

00:00:03.000 My name is Charlie Kirk.

00:00:05.000 I run the largest pro American student organization in the country fighting for the future of our republic.

00:00:11.000 My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth.

00:00:14.000 If the most important thing for you is just feeling good, you're going to end up miserable.

00:00:19.000 But if the most important thing is doing good, you will end up purposeful.

00:00:24.000 College is a scam, everybody.

00:00:26.000 You got to stop sending your kids to college.

00:00:28.000 You should get married as young as possible and have as many kids as possible.

00:00:31.000 Go start a turning point USA college chapter, go start a turning point USA high school chapter.

00:00:35.000 Go find out how your church can get involved.

00:00:37.000 Sign up and become an activist.

00:00:38.000 I gave my life to the Lord in fifth grade.

00:00:41.000 Most important decision I ever made in my life.

00:00:43.000 And I encourage you to do the same.

00:00:45.000 Here I am.

00:00:46.000 Lord, use me.

00:00:48.000 Buckle up, everybody.

00:00:49.000 Here we go.

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00:01:17.000 All right.

00:01:17.000 Welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show.

00:01:19.000 It's Wednesday, April 22nd.

00:01:21.000 It's a good day.

00:01:22.000 Yes, it is.

00:01:23.000 It is a good day.

00:01:23.000 We had a little bit of a setback in Virginia, which we're going to get into in just a little bit.

00:01:27.000 But this SPLC news is phenomenal.

00:01:30.000 It's everything that we sort of wanted out of our Department of Justice.

00:01:34.000 So good for them.

00:01:36.000 Yes.

00:01:36.000 Good for them.

00:01:36.000 They deserve a massive hat tip.

00:01:38.000 I love seeing them playing offense.

00:01:40.000 For those who didn't hear this, bro.

00:01:41.000 Kind of in the evening yesterday.

00:01:42.000 Hold on.

00:01:43.000 Hold on.

00:01:45.000 We are about to get to it.

00:01:46.000 We will have a moment to give you everything about the SPLC.

00:01:50.000 But first, I just have to tell you and give a shout out to our teams.

00:01:53.000 We had two massive events on the turning point side last night packed crowds at both The Ohio State University.

00:02:00.000 I got lectured about The.

00:02:03.000 Danny is somewhere out there clapping that I said it right.

00:02:07.000 The Ohio State University.

00:02:09.000 And then we also had a pastor summit, our largest ever in Grapevine.

00:02:13.000 So let's give it SOT 2 here.

00:02:16.000 And plus, Turning Point USA drawn a packed crowd at Ohio State yesterday.

00:02:22.000 If we could get every young person when they turn 18 to be informed and engaged in our politics, whether or not you agree with me and showing up at the ballot box, that's a good thing, and we want to bring that to our country.

00:02:33.000 Yeah, massive, massive event.

00:02:35.000 That was the Ohio State with Vivek, who's obviously running for governor in Ohio.

00:02:40.000 And then again, that pastor summit down in Grapevine, Texas.

00:02:43.000 And Lawrence Jones, who was the commentator right there, actually was one of the gentlemen on stage.

00:02:47.000 So I wanted to give him a little shout there.

00:02:49.000 But without further ado, we are going to bring in Tyler O'Neill.

00:02:53.000 He's senior editor for the Daily Signal and he's also the author of a book about the SPLC called Making Hate Pay.

00:03:01.000 Tyler, welcome back to the show.

00:03:03.000 It's good to see you, my friend.

00:03:04.000 Hey, thanks again so much for having me.

00:03:06.000 All right.

00:03:06.000 So, Blake, prime the pump.

00:03:08.000 Give us the content.

00:03:09.000 Now, now I can get you to go.

00:03:11.000 For those who didn't hear about this, so the SPLC is the Southern Poverty Law Center.

00:03:15.000 They've been this kind of goblin on the left for a long time.

00:03:20.000 They were especially prominent in President Trump's first term.

00:03:23.000 They're Guys, that they adopt is, oh, they're policing hate in America.

00:03:28.000 They monitor hate groups across America.

00:03:30.000 They run this site called Hate Watch.

00:03:32.000 They've been doing it for decades.

00:03:33.000 And what people noticed a while ago when it became glaring in the first Trump administration is they are a far left group.

00:03:40.000 And what they exist to do is to label the right as extremist and to say that all the extremism in America is on the right and that hate groups are always on the rise.

00:03:50.000 They're always warning the Klan is coming back, Nazis are coming back.

00:03:54.000 Killer motorcycle gangs are coming back.

00:03:56.000 And so they exist to freak people out about that to get money.

00:03:59.000 And they exist to smear people like Charlie, as an example, as one of those hate figures.

00:04:06.000 I mean, let's be honest as well.

00:04:08.000 It is, I don't think, a stretch to say, and I'll let Tyler agree or disagree with me, it is not a stretch to say that they legitimately hate white people. 0.98

00:04:16.000 The SPLC is a very bad white. 0.98

00:04:19.000 They are America's top hate group, in my opinion. 0.79

00:04:21.000 But what we got last night that's incredible and is good news is the SPLC, according to the federal government, in an indictment.

00:04:28.000 They were during that period of the first Trump administration spending literally millions of dollars on informants within the far right groups that they claimed to be monitoring and policing against, including in some cases they were paying the leaders of these groups.

00:04:45.000 In one case, they were paying tens of thousands of dollars to somebody at the same time they had a page of him on their Hate Watch page saying, This is an extremist that we're fighting against.

00:04:57.000 Please give us money to fight against him when they were paying him.

00:05:00.000 And so now the federal government has brought wire fraud charges against the SPLC.

00:05:08.000 And I think whether these charges are successful or not, it's a great opportunity to expose how the organization really works.

00:05:14.000 And I think we're going to find a lot of dirty laundry.

00:05:17.000 As our guest Tyler is aware, there's a lot to find.

00:05:21.000 Tyler, the floor is yours.

00:05:22.000 You wrote the book Making Hate Pay, and now we know it's way more insidious and sinister than we knew before.

00:05:31.000 Yeah, well, we've long expected, we've long suspected that something like this was going on, but we didn't fully know the details of this informant network.

00:05:43.000 And you gotta love when the SPLC does damage control by coming out and making known this clandestine informant program.

00:05:51.000 That they've been hiding for decades.

00:05:54.000 But the SPLC, my book title says The Corruption of the Southern Poverty Law Center, because what they do, their stock in trade, is to exaggerate hate.

00:06:05.000 They've cultivated this huge network of donors because the SPLC sued Ku Klux Klan groups into non existence, into bankruptcy in the 1980s.

00:06:15.000 And they've taken that platform and weaponized it to smear conservative.

00:06:22.000 And of course, you know, Charlie is exhibit A, really, after the horrible thing, you know, after the assassination attempt.

00:06:31.000 But he wasn't the first one to face violence after the SPLC added him to the hate map.

00:06:36.000 They also added the Family Research Council.

00:06:39.000 That led to a mass shooting in 2012.

00:06:42.000 And thankfully, that shooting was largely prevented.

00:06:45.000 But the guy who shot up the Family Research Council told the FBI he did so because of the SPLC map.

00:06:53.000 So, the SPLC has this system where they put out this hate map with Klan chapters and other white nationalist and evil groups that they say are, you know, they call this the infrastructure of white supremacy in America.

00:07:10.000 And this map has gotten ever more insane as I've been covering it.

00:07:16.000 So, they used to just have the Family Research Council, then they added Alliance Defending Freedom, they have immigration groups like the Federation on.

00:07:25.000 On American immigration reform, groups that warn against radical Islam, like the Center for Security Policy and the David Horowitz Freedom Center.

00:07:34.000 And then they started adding, so first they started with some of those groups. 0.57

00:07:38.000 Then in 2023, they added Moms for Liberty to the hate map.

00:07:43.000 And in 2025, they went, you know, that was when they went way off the deep end, putting Turning Point on there, putting Prager U on there.

00:07:52.000 I mean, this group creates YouTube videos to inform the public.

00:07:57.000 And now they're on a map with chapters of the Ku Klux Klan.

00:08:00.000 That's how insane this has gotten.

00:08:02.000 But the reason it's gotten so bad is partially because the SPLC has this extremely high demand for hate.

00:08:10.000 They have this big donor base that thinks the SPLC is the number one source for hate, and so we have to fund them because otherwise the hate is going to proliferate.

00:08:21.000 Well, the SPLC has long worked to increase the supply of hate to match that demand.

00:08:28.000 Tyler, now we know they've been funding it.

00:08:31.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:08:32.000 I want to underscore this point.

00:08:34.000 The SPLC, check this graphic out.

00:08:36.000 This is the hate grift in one image.

00:08:39.000 And we're taking this from our friends over at Fox.

00:08:42.000 But in October of 2016, pre Charlottesville, their revenue was $51,871,000.

00:08:49.000 $51,000.

00:08:52.000 After Charlottesville, $133,000.

00:08:59.000 An $81 million increase, almost $82 million increase from Charlottesville.

00:09:05.000 Which that now we find out that one of the leaders in the Charlottesville Unite the Right rally was paid $270,000 by the SPLC.

00:09:13.000 So just so you see that the ROI on that $270,000 is pretty extreme.

00:09:19.000 I mean, if you were Nancy Pelosi, you would be impressed by those returns.

00:09:24.000 That's how this works.

00:09:25.000 That's the image right there.

00:09:27.000 They're literally putting high school chapters of ours on a hate group next to the KKK and next to neo Nazi groups.

00:09:34.000 And I mean, we can laugh this off.

00:09:36.000 There's an element to this.

00:09:37.000 Remember that there was a shooter that went to the Family Research Council years ago.

00:09:40.000 Inspired by the SPLC list, but they can't debate us on our ideas.

00:09:44.000 They cannot have dialogue.

00:09:46.000 They cannot actually go on to the merits of why they are right or why we might be wrong.

00:09:52.000 Instead, they must smear us with the age old one liner that you are a racist or that you are a hater.

00:09:57.000 And they're finally realizing the power of Turning Point USA, which is why they put us on the SPLC list.

00:10:02.000 I was Charlie on Laura Ingram's show right after Turning Point was put on the hate map, the so called hate map, which was just a giant grift.

00:10:12.000 We're here back at the Y Refi studio here in Phoenix, Arizona, with Tyler O'Neill, senior editor of the Daily Signal and the author of Making Hate Pay, which is, man, that aged like fine wine here, Tyler.

00:10:26.000 So, congratulations on that.

00:10:28.000 You might have to update the book and give a second edition or something here with these new revelations.

00:10:34.000 So, again, this is what's wild about it, though.

00:10:37.000 The SBLC after Charlottesville has this huge boon.

00:10:39.000 It's some of the main funders that are being mentioned were George and Amal Clooney.

00:10:44.000 Tim Cook, Tim Apple, MGM, Google.

00:10:48.000 I mean, this is as mainstream as it gets.

00:10:53.000 Your thoughts?

00:10:53.000 No, it was.

00:10:54.000 I mean, Charlottesville is exhibit A of the graft here because we often forget, you know, in the months leading up to Charlottesville, the SPLC had a different hate map.

00:11:05.000 They had a Confederate monument map that they put up on their website.

00:11:09.000 And they had on this map, I kid you not, they say these monuments are causing turmoil and bloodshed.

00:11:17.000 And on that map, they didn't just include, you know, statues of Robert E. Lee, which we can all debate about.

00:11:23.000 Like, I could understand people being frustrated a little bit.

00:11:26.000 And then there are some statues where they actually, the statue actually said white supremacy.

00:11:31.000 As far as I'm concerned, yeah, get rid of that statue.

00:11:34.000 Robert E. Lee represents a lot more than that.

00:11:37.000 And, you know, he was a noble.

00:11:39.000 Anyway, we don't need to get into, we don't need to relitigate that issue.

00:11:42.000 But the SPLC put on this Confederate hate map, they put middle schools, high schools, elementary schools, they put military bases.

00:11:52.000 And I get that you don't like these things being named after Confederates.

00:11:56.000 It's one thing to say that.

00:11:58.000 It's another thing to have a hate map that's scary, that says turmoil and bloodshed, and then is directing people.

00:12:06.000 And in the midst of this, you had a lot of people going to monuments and knocking them over.

00:12:12.000 So this is early days of stuff.

00:12:14.000 Yeah, Tyler, to the extent that this work product by the SPLC is influential, it's hard to overstate it, right?

00:12:21.000 Because look at, I'm going to show you a clip of Joe Biden talking about why he decided to run for president.

00:12:29.000 Sot 9. 0.94

00:12:30.000 When I spoke to the mom who lost her daughter, it's a consequence of those neo-Nazis and white supremacists come out on fields in America with torches, carrying Nazi banners, singing the same sick anti-Semitic bile that was sung in Germany in the 30s.

00:12:53.000 And when her daughter was killed, the press went to the then President Trump and said, what do you think?

00:12:59.000 He said, they're very fine people on both sides.

00:13:02.000 I knew then.

00:13:04.000 I knew I'd do something.

00:13:05.000 And that's when I decided to run.

00:13:08.000 Ah, okay.

00:13:09.000 So that's just one clip here.

00:13:10.000 So he says he decides to run because of Charlottesville.

00:13:13.000 You mentioned that they were tearing down all these statues, in part because of the SBLC's map.

00:13:18.000 So we're starting to see the work product here.

00:13:22.000 Remember this from the inaugural address, SOT 10.

00:13:25.000 The cry for survival comes from the planet itself, a cry that can't be any more desperate or any more clear.

00:13:33.000 And now.

00:13:34.000 A rise of political extremism, white supremacy, domestic terrorism that we must confront and we will defeat.

00:13:44.000 So you have to ask the question.

00:13:46.000 Obviously, this is coming after January 6th, right?

00:13:49.000 So, at white supremacy, this is the line, domestic extremism.

00:13:54.000 Now you have to ask the question when Chris Ray says there's no, you know, FBI informancy does this, he can sort of technically say that because, hey, guess what?

00:14:04.000 They might have outsourced the informants that were in the crowd that day.

00:14:08.000 Do we know anything about that, Tyler?

00:14:10.000 That has not yet been confirmed, but I highly suspect that there might be a connection there.

00:14:17.000 I think it is, we can't go enough on this issue because Biden repeated it over and over again.

00:14:25.000 The left used it.

00:14:26.000 And by the way, you know, right after Biden got inaugurated, according to the SPLC at least, and now we have documents backing this up, many different agencies in the Biden administration.

00:14:38.000 Went to the SPLC asking for advice on how to combat the domestic terrorism threat.

00:14:44.000 So the SPLC was funding and then directing the social media posts of and then helping this guy bring people to Charlottesville on one side.

00:14:55.000 We talk about very fine people on both sides, which is twisting Trump's words out of context.

00:15:00.000 Yeah, it's a total hoax.

00:15:01.000 Only one of the sides there at Charlottesville was funded by the SPLC.

00:15:06.000 And that's not the one that they claim to be on the side of.

00:15:09.000 Well, and Tyler, I mentioned earlier that the SBLC is absolutely, brazenly, not even, this is not even a question.

00:15:17.000 They are anti white. 0.68

00:15:19.000 So when they talk about domestic violence, domestic violence, extremism, that is anti white. 0.99

00:15:24.000 That is their code for we don't like white people. 0.97

00:15:27.000 And I can prove it to you. 0.97

00:15:29.000 This is a flashback to Mark Potock, who had a, in an interview, had a handwritten sort of poster on his wall.

00:15:38.000 Just a note.

00:15:39.000 Just a post note.

00:15:40.000 Post note. 0.92

00:15:41.000 Documenting the decline, celebrating the decline of the white population in the United States. 0.92

00:15:47.000 Look at that thing. 0.88

00:15:49.000 That's a man who is celebrating, who is eager about the coming minority majority of white America.

00:16:00.000 Now, if you are, that is racism.

00:16:04.000 That is racism right there.

00:16:06.000 Okay, go ahead, Ty.

00:16:07.000 I don't mean to cut you off.

00:16:08.000 Yeah, well, they didn't hide.

00:16:10.000 Like the left has long said, remember that emerging, the new emerging majority, they called it, where they said that because of Obama's victory in 2008, suddenly there's going to be this coalition of the ascendant that's always going to keep America in the thrall of the Democratic Party.

00:16:27.000 And meanwhile, if you say that they're importing people from foreign countries, if you're having a lot of illegal aliens, if you say, you know, what Biden essentially admitted by opening the border.

00:16:40.000 In 2021.

00:16:41.000 If you say that they're trying to replace people, you're somehow branded a racist.

00:16:45.000 No, no, no.

00:16:46.000 I'm sorry.

00:16:47.000 No, no.

00:16:47.000 I'm concerned.

00:16:48.000 Yeah.

00:16:49.000 You're an anti Semitic conspiracy replacement theorist.

00:16:52.000 Theorist.

00:16:52.000 Right.

00:16:53.000 And they have to string all those things together to really smear you.

00:16:57.000 Yeah.

00:16:57.000 The SPLC has been leading that charge in condemning people for this for forever.

00:17:03.000 And it's like, no, I know a lot of people who want to enforce immigration law, who want to make sure that every person who comes here comes here legally.

00:17:12.000 For reasons that are honoring our country that have nothing to do with race, frankly. 0.58

00:17:16.000 But the way that the left has been pushing this constant, like, oh, minorities should take over, we'll have infinite power.

00:17:23.000 I think that has been exacerbating.

00:17:27.000 And part of what we saw with the SPLC is exacerbating racial divisions in the country.

00:17:34.000 It was always by design, Tyler O'Neill, senior editor of the Daily Signal and author of the book Making Hate Pay.

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00:19:04.000 All right, without further ado, I'm so excited to have Molly Hemingway back on the show. 0.69

00:19:08.000 She's one of my faves.

00:19:10.000 And she's got a new book out called Alito, and the subtitle's really good.

00:19:14.000 The Justice Who Reshaped the Supreme Court and Restored the Constitution.

00:19:17.000 So much to get into with Molly. 0.98

00:19:19.000 Welcome back to the show.

00:19:21.000 It is great to be here with you guys.

00:19:23.000 Well, congratulations on your book.

00:19:25.000 I want to get into what happened to Virginia in the second half of this interview, but tell us why this book, why Alito, and why now?

00:19:34.000 Co authored with Kerry Severino a book on Kavanaugh.

00:19:37.000 And when we wrote that, we interviewed a ton of high level people, and they were all saying, you know, there's this giant on the court, and nobody ever talks about him Alito.

00:19:46.000 And they don't talk about him because he just quietly gets his work done and returns to his suburban home.

00:19:52.000 He does not seek celebrity, he's not flashy, but he's been on the court now for 20 years.

00:19:57.000 And he's the one who has delivered some of these major landmark opinions, most notably the Dobbs decision that overturned Roe v. Wade.

00:20:06.000 Which was an issue that the conservative legal movement had worked on for 50 years.

00:20:12.000 And he has this really interesting approach to originalism that is less theoretical or philosophical than some of his colleagues, like Scalia or Thomas, and very practical.

00:20:22.000 And when we're at a moment where people are either saying, you have to be super principled, and who cares about the effect of those principles, or we don't care about principles, we just want to win, Alito embodies this blend.

00:20:37.000 He's very principled and he thinks about how to strategize toward a win.

00:20:43.000 He's very prudential in how he approaches things.

00:20:45.000 And I think that's something that the entire country could learn from.

00:20:50.000 It's all very good and it is appreciated.

00:20:52.000 I think ever since Scalia died, there was a lot of attention on Thomas.

00:20:56.000 We have a Clarence Thomas photo behind you.

00:20:59.000 I think all of us like Thomas a lot.

00:21:00.000 He's definitely has that approach of he's often the only guy on the court who will say, We actually should throw out this thing that's 150 years old because it's not in the Constitution.

00:21:09.000 But as you say, Alito is the one who authored some of the decisions that we wanted most.

00:21:15.000 He's the one who actually, Dobbs, who delivered it.

00:21:17.000 I want to ask about something that really caught my attention.

00:21:20.000 You were talking about this with Mark Halpern on his show.

00:21:24.000 Just the other day, and it was specifically about the Dobbs case, which we've never fully resolved who leaked that decision, as you might remember, that it was leaked before it came out.

00:21:36.000 We're not sure who did it, what their motive was.

00:21:38.000 I know you have your own theories about it, but you also mentioned something that really caught my attention, which was, and Halpern was theorizing about this, that when it dropped, one of the possible motives was they were trying to, frankly, spark violence against justices, because if one of those justices. were killed or died, the ruling would be canceled.

00:21:58.000 You can't rule.

00:22:00.000 If it hadn't come out yet, they'd have to cancel the ruling basically because you wouldn't have the majority anymore.

00:22:04.000 And that there was this incident where they were, the justices on the conservative side were asking, can we get this ruling out so that this sort of Damocles isn't hanging us over anymore?

00:22:13.000 And you said one of the liberal justices was on board with it, but another justice was not.

00:22:19.000 And that seemed very interesting.

00:22:20.000 Could you relay that story for our audience?

00:22:22.000 Yes.

00:22:22.000 Well, to write Alito, I interviewed nearly 100 people, which means I have a lot of great stories from what was happening On the court or near the court.

00:22:32.000 And after the Dobbs decision was leaked, you remember this, people's lives were immediately threatened.

00:22:38.000 The justices had to wear bulletproof vests, they had to go to secure locations.

00:22:43.000 Left wing groups had published their home addresses where they lived, in some cases, with spouse and children, like young children.

00:22:51.000 And people were swarming these places, trying to commit violence or otherwise threaten the justices into changing their mind.

00:22:58.000 That is a violation of federal law, by the way.

00:23:01.000 And Merrick Garland wasn't doing anything.

00:23:03.000 The media were flat out celebrating.

00:23:05.000 But when the justices met in conference, they were shocked to learn that the liberal justices said they were nowhere near having their dissent done.

00:23:14.000 So, usually, to issue an opinion, you have the opinion, but you also have the dissent.

00:23:19.000 They said, Oh, we're not done.

00:23:20.000 So, some of the justices were like, Hey, we're out here dealing with.

00:23:25.000 Left wing violence and attacks, could you wrap it up?

00:23:29.000 And they said, oh, well, first off, as you alluded to, Justice Breyer, who's a solid liberal on the court, but was a solid liberal, he left.

00:23:39.000 He was a gentleman.

00:23:40.000 He was beloved by his colleagues.

00:23:42.000 He seemed the most amenable to trying to hurry things.

00:23:45.000 And then, according to my sources, Justice Elena Kagan went to his chambers and screamed at him not to accommodate the conservative justices.

00:23:55.000 And this is matched by what happened, which is, Even though they'd had many, many, many months to work on this, they said they couldn't possibly get their dissent done until June.

00:24:05.000 And then once the dissent was filed, they included in it a footnote to another case that was nowhere near being done yet, knowing that that would further delay the release.

00:24:17.000 So there's a pattern here of behavior among the left wing justices, including what we've seen this term, where they're slow walking a decision that they think will hurt the Democrat Party.

00:24:27.000 But I mean, I think this is like, Explosive stuff and being able to get in there and tell some of these behind the scenes stories, I think, is illuminating and very different from what left wing media would tell you about what's happening on the court.

00:24:41.000 Man, that is a really damning picture of Elena Kagan.

00:24:45.000 I mean, that is really.

00:24:47.000 So, who do you think leaked the Dobbs decision?

00:24:50.000 Do we, do you, your theory of it?

00:24:53.000 So, unlike Mark Halperin, I do not think it was one of the justices, and everyone I spoke with.

00:24:59.000 You know, they might have different theories.

00:25:01.000 Nobody thinks it's a justice.

00:25:03.000 They view that as too reckless.

00:25:05.000 And it was Halperin's theory that it was, in fact, Elena Kagan.

00:25:08.000 He said she's the most political.

00:25:10.000 She has the closest relationship with the reporter who wrote the piece, he was saying.

00:25:15.000 And so, but I think most people think it's a clerk.

00:25:18.000 It had to be someone who had access to the documents in question that year.

00:25:22.000 It's a fairly small universe of people.

00:25:25.000 There are some clerks who were, you know, highlighted in the press as having some.

00:25:30.000 Particularly strident viewpoints related to abortion and relationships with the reporter in question.

00:25:37.000 But I don't think we'll know until that person admits it.

00:25:41.000 We won't know for sure until that person admits it, or unless that person admits it, because the investigation that was done was kind of a joke.

00:25:48.000 Well, and I would, it sort of would follow maybe it was a clerk for Kagan.

00:25:53.000 I mean, you know, if there was already an existing relationship there with the reporter, it kind of makes a lot of sense to me.

00:26:00.000 I'd heard her name before.

00:26:01.000 Do you think it would be possible maybe?

00:26:03.000 She did not personally do anything, but she strongly signaled she wouldn't mind if it happened.

00:26:09.000 I guess I don't know what range of actions is possible here.

00:26:13.000 I just would first of all say, you know, there were three justices on the well, there were four justices who did not want to overturn.

00:26:22.000 And that would be Chief Justice Roberts, and then the three liberals, Sotomayor, Kagan, and Breyer.

00:26:28.000 And so they all had hired clerks knowing that the big case of the term would be overturning Roe.

00:26:34.000 So they were hiring some of the most strident people.

00:26:37.000 And I would say, probably, you know, they were the ones who stood to benefit from the leak.

00:26:43.000 Those chambers did either.

00:26:45.000 I don't think they actually wished death upon their colleagues.

00:26:49.000 I think they were hoping that they could peel Kavanaugh or maybe one of the other justices.

00:26:54.000 Away from overturning Roe.

00:26:56.000 There were already reports about this in the New York Times that Breyer and Roberts were trying to do that.

00:27:02.000 So that seems the more likely scenario.

00:27:04.000 But I don't think it is hard to do a conspiracy with multiple people.

00:27:08.000 But certainly the climate of the left was do whatever it takes to preserve this so called right to end the lives of unborn children. 0.96

00:27:17.000 I tend to agree with you.

00:27:18.000 It was probably a delay tact to see if you could pull, impeal one of the conservative justices away.

00:27:23.000 But it's still a very interesting theory.

00:27:25.000 Molly.

00:27:26.000 Alito's name has been brought up a lot with Clarence Thomas about whether or not they're going to retire.

00:27:32.000 Right?

00:27:32.000 We have 53 senators.

00:27:34.000 This would be probably an ideal time given that the midterms are uncertain at best.

00:27:41.000 What do you make of that?

00:27:42.000 Do you think there's any chance that either of those justices would step down?

00:27:45.000 Well, I've long been saying I don't think Alito is going to step down at the end of this term.

00:27:50.000 Technically, I don't know, but there was reporting last week that said his chambers or his world is kind of getting the word out that he does not intend to retire.

00:27:59.000 Thomas has openly and long said, I'm going out feet first.

00:28:04.000 So if you believe that, then it's not either of them.

00:28:08.000 I do think, though, that people spend way too much time focusing on these two, and they should not wish either of them to leave the court because they are.

00:28:15.000 Far and away, the most solid, consistent originalists on the court, you know, constitutionalists on the court.

00:28:22.000 But there is a third justice who is also in his 70s who has served even longer than Justice Alito, and that's Chief Justice John Roberts.

00:28:31.000 So I would say if you're trying to pressure, why not go for him?

00:28:35.000 And also, I wouldn't be shocked if he stepped down.

00:28:39.000 Molly, I think that's a really fascinating.

00:28:41.000 I mean, I think we'd all be totally okay if John Roberts stepped down, if he did us a solid and did it.

00:28:47.000 Sooner than later, I'd be okay with that as well.

00:28:51.000 I'd be curious two names that you would like to see replace any of the justices should they step down.

00:28:57.000 Oh, that's one thing that people have a lot that is going for good justices.

00:29:01.000 I think Judge Katsis on the DC Circuit is incredible.

00:29:06.000 I think Amultha Parr, Andy Oldham, Naomi Rao.

00:29:10.000 I mean, there are a lot of really good judges who would be great for this slot.

00:29:15.000 I'm going to investigate all of those names you just mentioned.

00:29:19.000 Virginia, what is the explanation that you're hearing around the Beltway for why we spend $100 million and it's probably going to be like $150 million on the Cornyn race to beat a conservative Republican in a primary when we can't get investments in a Virginia election that determines four House seats?

00:29:39.000 What are you hearing people say?

00:29:40.000 I have no explanation.

00:29:42.000 It's long been known that the Virginia Republican Party could use a lot of assistance, but this was a national issue.

00:29:49.000 Who controls the House of Representatives?

00:29:52.000 And still, you didn't see much national interest.

00:29:54.000 There was almost no money going into this.

00:29:57.000 There wasn't the type of ballot chase operation that you need to have in order to actually get the ballots in the box that are going to matter.

00:30:05.000 And this was truly a winnable situation.

00:30:09.000 We were, I live in Virginia, deluged with ads and money from the left to try to pass this.

00:30:15.000 And it only passed with like 1%.

00:30:18.000 It was nearly 90,000 votes.

00:30:20.000 Yeah.

00:30:21.000 So, it could have been winnable.

00:30:22.000 And I honestly, it's so frustrating.

00:30:25.000 I don't even know what to say about it.

00:30:26.000 Yeah.

00:30:27.000 Well, and I have stories about this too, Molly.

00:30:29.000 I mean, there was a whole plan that we put together for groups that you would know the names of, and nobody wanted to fund it.

00:30:36.000 Yeah.

00:30:36.000 And people think that we're like made of money or something, like on the turning points.

00:30:40.000 No.

00:30:40.000 Turning point action C4, it's way harder to raise money there.

00:30:44.000 And we already have like huge commitments to that.

00:30:46.000 We have TLC, who we just profiled, one of a million groups, and they have 10 times as much money as we've ever had.

00:30:52.000 It's really depressing.

00:30:53.000 Molly, congratulations on the new book, though.

00:30:55.000 Alito, check it out today, everybody.

00:30:57.000 Get yourself a copy.

00:30:59.000 Molly Hemingway, she's great.

00:31:00.000 Thanks, y'all.

00:31:01.000 All right, Blake.

00:31:03.000 We lose a very winnable race in Virginia.

00:31:07.000 We got outspent, but we only lost by 80,000 to 90,000.

00:31:11.000 To put it in perspective, the no, which is what we were in favor of, we wanted no to keep the old maps, which is a 6'5 map.

00:31:20.000 It got more votes than Winsome Sears for governor last cycle.

00:31:24.000 So that shows kind of that Winsome Sears was a weak candidate, but it also shows that people are not winnable.

00:31:29.000 This was a winnable race.

00:31:30.000 Yeah, it was so winnable.

00:31:32.000 Every single county except for like.

00:31:34.000 Fairfax in the north, and maybe one other.

00:31:36.000 I forget.

00:31:37.000 There were a few.

00:31:38.000 I mean, it went more right.

00:31:40.000 If you look at the map, I think we have the image here.

00:31:42.000 You can visually see that the entire state of Virginia voted more to the right on this, except for very small little sections of Northern Virginia.

00:31:52.000 And then there was one other county there.

00:31:54.000 But, Blake, what do you make of this, and what are the takeaways?

00:31:59.000 I mean, the big takeaways, first of all, I feel like I've lived through this four or five times now where Virginia has been written off.

00:32:08.000 And then we end up losing a pretty important race very narrowly.

00:32:14.000 So it happened, I think, I remember, I think it was Ken Cuccinelli.

00:32:18.000 That was over a decade ago.

00:32:20.000 Written off, underfunded, loses by a tiny margin.

00:32:24.000 And it's happened repeatedly.

00:32:26.000 This is a state we have been competitive in when we have decided to be competitive in it.

00:32:31.000 And then other times they just totally write it off.

00:32:34.000 And it's very upsetting.

00:32:35.000 It's very upsetting that this race wasn't taken super seriously.

00:32:38.000 This was five house races.

00:32:40.000 That were effectively up for grabs in a close race.

00:32:44.000 And I can't help but wonder if Republicans in DC liked the idea of not contesting this.

00:32:52.000 I think, remember, the whole push to redraw some of the House seats in other states, in Texas, in Florida, I think it was pushed along.

00:33:02.000 It was pushed along by President Trump.

00:33:03.000 I think maybe some of them in DC liked the idea of him getting egg on his face by losing this one and saying, see, we told you so, when this is a lot more extreme than anything they did in Texas or Florida.

00:33:14.000 It's a much more radical mutation of the map.

00:33:18.000 It's a much more aggressive grab in terms of what share of seats they're giving themselves.

00:33:24.000 We've seen them do this before.

00:33:25.000 They kind of like the idea of leaving the party hanging in the wind.

00:33:29.000 And as you said, we had a plan.

00:33:31.000 People weren't ready to fight it.

00:33:33.000 And we lost this close race.

00:33:34.000 Yeah.

00:33:34.000 It's really frustrating as well when you consider that $100 million was spent to defeat Ken Paxton unsuccessfully.

00:33:41.000 Okay.

00:33:41.000 Maybe Cornyn got a few more votes than Ken Paxton.

00:33:44.000 But now Ken Paxton's surging in the polls.

00:33:47.000 It's probably going to win that primary race for Senate in Texas.

00:33:51.000 And that's R on R crime.

00:33:53.000 That's R on R violence.

00:33:54.000 You're spending $100 million in a Texas.

00:33:58.000 Senate primary in a deep red state that's still a deep red state, where Ken has, by the way, been a supporter of the president, is totally on board with MAGA, and has proven that he can win statewide races.

00:34:09.000 But no, $100 million gets dumped into Texas.

00:34:13.000 And by the way, here's the dirty little secret.

00:34:15.000 When you pour money into these big ad buys in a state like Texas, guess who's getting paid?

00:34:19.000 The media consultants, the media buyers, they're taking a big chunk right off the top.

00:34:23.000 So they love ad buys.

00:34:25.000 They love ad buys. 0.99

00:34:26.000 Meanwhile, Virginia gets $20 million. 0.99

00:34:28.000 $20 million.

00:34:29.000 And I think the Democrats, what, spent like $60, $70 million on this campaign?

00:34:32.000 And they love ad buys, which you can look at the numbers, and a lot of ads don't have a big impact.

00:34:37.000 You can spend a ton of money to move things, not a lot.

00:34:40.000 And yeah, as you say, they don't like nearly as much the distributed idea, like what Turning Point Action does, of getting lots of get out the vote people on the ground, have people who know their neighbors are interacting with them.

00:34:51.000 That doesn't go through the same consultant apparatus as everything else.

00:34:55.000 It's a different model of politics.

00:34:57.000 And I will tell you that we, you know, Tyler would tell the story.

00:35:02.000 I'll let him tell it because he was more directly involved.

00:35:05.000 He put together a whole group of people that are based in Virginia, that are based in D.C., conservative groups, and put a proposal together to train those groups to deploy our ballot chase efforts the way we do it and the timeframe it would take.

00:35:21.000 And there was a big proposal put forward, and it was turned down, and people didn't want to fund it.

00:35:28.000 So it is what it is.

00:35:30.000 You know, it's.

00:35:33.000 You know, until our side invests the same amount of money and enthusiasm in GOTV, in canvassing, in voter relationships, voter reg, as it does with consultants and media buyers, we're going to continue to come up just short.

00:35:47.000 And the country's going to really be damaged as a result.

00:35:50.000 That's just the bottom line.

00:35:52.000 We have to be demanding more ballot chase, more canvassing.

00:35:55.000 Because, yeah, you got to have the media spend.

00:35:57.000 You got to have the air war and the ground war.

00:35:59.000 They have to come together in the medium, in the middle.

00:36:02.000 Because, listen, you can't do one or the other.

00:36:04.000 And by the way, if you're going to continually.

00:36:05.000 Get outspent when you're sitting on mountains of cash, which, if you kind of tally it together, all these packs and all these groups on the right, we have a lot of cash right now.

00:36:14.000 And you could say, Oh, we're keeping our powder dry for the midterms.

00:36:17.000 You just lost four house seats.

00:36:19.000 You lost five house seats.

00:36:20.000 Five seats.

00:36:21.000 Lost five house seats.

00:36:22.000 And also, if they're not spending it on other things and we don't see that being spent, now is the time you do it.

00:36:28.000 Every race that goes badly, you have the people who realize something's wrong two weeks out and they come in and say, Where can we spend the money? 0.81

00:36:35.000 And as Charlie could tell you, You spend it now. 0.60

00:36:38.000 You spend it early.

00:36:38.000 You can't deploy new ballot chasers in the second half of October.

00:36:43.000 You have them out there meeting people, laying the groundwork now.

00:36:46.000 In fact, we've been doing it for months for the races that we're involved in.

00:36:49.000 That's how you win these things.

00:36:49.000 Yeah.

00:36:50.000 There's an estimated, just so people are aware.

00:36:52.000 Now, ballot chasing is not a silver bullet.

00:36:54.000 You can bring the dog food and the dog won't eat the food. 1.00

00:36:57.000 Kamala Harris' canvassing organizations ran into that because nobody wanted to vote for it.

00:37:02.000 So it is a both and.

00:37:03.000 But in this instance, there was a really viable, worthwhile cause to get behind, and people would have.

00:37:09.000 And there were 500,000 low propensity.

00:37:11.000 Republicans across the state of Virginia that we could have chased.

00:37:14.000 500,000.

00:37:16.000 We just would have needed about 80, 90,000 of them.

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00:38:36.000 Ten missing scientists with access to classified stuff, nuclear material, aerospace.

00:38:41.000 They've all gone missing or turned up dead in the last couple months.

00:38:45.000 Well, I hope it's random, but we're going to know in the next week and a half.

00:38:49.000 I just left a meeting on that subject.

00:38:51.000 So, pretty serious stuff, but we're going to be not.

00:38:54.000 Hopefully, I don't know, coincidence, whatever you want to call it.

00:38:59.000 Some of them were very important people, and we're going to look at it over the next.

00:39:04.000 All right, so this story has been really getting people's attention because it is seemingly very concerning.

00:39:13.000 Here to help us unpack that is House Oversight Chairman Representative James Comer from the great state of Kentucky.

00:39:19.000 He and Eric Burleson, Representative Burleson, are leading the charge to get answers here.

00:39:23.000 Welcome back to the show, sir.

00:39:25.000 Thanks for having me on.

00:39:27.000 So, of course, it's great to have you back on.

00:39:29.000 It's been too long.

00:39:30.000 I will say, Congressman, you were originally skeptical about this.

00:39:34.000 You thought it was kind of a crazed conspiracy online thing, and then you looked into it.

00:39:39.000 And then now you're sending letters to a lot of agencies at the federal government looking for more details.

00:39:45.000 What can you tell us about this?

00:39:47.000 Well, when it's first described to you, if you haven't studied it, you think, oh, that's not possible.

00:39:53.000 If that had been happening, we would have learned about it by now.

00:39:56.000 But what happened is there was such a space of nearly three years.

00:40:01.000 You know, something happened about every three months or whatever, and you're up to 10 either missing or deceased, all connected with our nuclear program, all very important scientists and people that contribute to the intellectual property of our superior nuclear program, which is the envy of the world.

00:40:20.000 And then you think, well, I wonder what the government's been doing about it.

00:40:24.000 And I could tell you just in the week since we started requesting information and announcing our investigation, I'm pretty confident that the government.

00:40:33.000 Really wasn't even aware that this was happening.

00:40:36.000 I'm almost positive the FBI wasn't aware.

00:40:39.000 Now, some of the agencies, NASA and Department of Energy, will say they've been looking into it.

00:40:43.000 Well, they don't even have a formal team of investigators to look into something like this.

00:40:49.000 So, we're concerned that this has just now become realized by our investigative authorities, specifically the FBI.

00:40:59.000 We feel that we can play a role in this investigation because what I found as chairman of the Oversight Committee over the last three years.

00:41:07.000 spanning two administrations is a lot of these government agencies never share information with each other.

00:41:12.000 So we're trying to get all that information in from NASA, from the Department of Energy, from the FBI, from the Department of War to see if there are some obvious missing links that we can piece this together and try to find a solution.

00:41:26.000 So, Congressman, do you want to lay out what you think is the most alarming or the most interesting connection?

00:41:33.000 Because I'm a little more skeptical compared to a lot of people.

00:41:36.000 I've been looking at the specific cases, and I guess I'm not quite sold yet.

00:41:41.000 I know, as you said, there's the line they're all connected to the nuclear program, but I feel like that's, if it's true, it's only true in the most broad based way.

00:41:50.000 Like, I know one of these 11, he worked at Novartis, a pharmacy company.

00:41:55.000 That's not super nuclear related.

00:41:57.000 Another, Is not a scientist. 0.73

00:41:59.000 She's missing.

00:42:00.000 It's an interesting case, but she was an administrative assistant at Los Alamos.

00:42:04.000 And her family says she didn't have access to classified information.

00:42:07.000 So give us the strong case for there being something here and it's not people sort of finding patterns where they don't necessarily exist.

00:42:16.000 Well, I hope there's nothing sinister here.

00:42:18.000 I just don't believe the odds are good enough to have the level of confidence that this is unrelated.

00:42:28.000 And if you look at the way that our adversaries operate, let's say this is one of the usual suspects.

00:42:35.000 You always have to suspect China, Russia, Iran, North Korea of any type of missions.

00:42:42.000 But anytime there's a major cyber breach, it's always some small country.

00:42:47.000 That most people would have a hard time identifying on the map.

00:42:51.000 So, you know, there are lots of countries that would love to have our intellectual property.

00:42:56.000 There are lots of countries that would love to do things to lead us to think that there's something sinister there and people are trying to get our nuclear capabilities and create uncertainty and unrest within the government of the United States.

00:43:11.000 So, what I've been concerned about is that no one's really looked into this.

00:43:16.000 Just in the last few days, has this reached the radar of the FBI?

00:43:22.000 Uh, we want to look at all the pieces to see.

00:43:24.000 I'm not.

00:43:25.000 You know there's some members are going on tv saying oh, this is sinister.

00:43:28.000 I, I think a member or two said this could be aliens or something like that.

00:43:32.000 I mean that I did a TMZ interview.

00:43:34.000 I'm like, i'm confident it's not aliens.

00:43:37.000 But at the end of the day uh, there are countries that have a history of trying to do things like this and maybe, if for no other reason than to spook people into working in the nuclear program, I don't know there are lots of reasons why someone could be doing this or a country could be behind this, that that wasn't just to steal the intellectual property of the nuclear program.

00:44:01.000 I, I agree that administrative assistant shouldn't have had any classified information or shouldn't have had any type of intellectual property that uh, that would be unknown to a foreign country.

00:44:13.000 However if, if that person was an easy target, if your goal is to scare or spook anyone from participating in the nuclear program, then maybe your goal was achieved.

00:44:25.000 So we just want to look at this.

00:44:27.000 A lot of times when the government says they investigate something, I've learned that they don't.

00:44:31.000 And I could give you a lot of examples that are in the news now of former cases that I don't think thoroughly got vetted.

00:44:38.000 And the one at the top of the list would be the Epstein investigation was never thoroughly investigated by the U.S. government.

00:44:46.000 So we've got this situation.

00:44:47.000 We're taking it very seriously.

00:44:49.000 America has reached out to a majority of members of Congress in the last few days in both parties, just with lots of questions.

00:44:56.000 So we're going to do everything we can to get answers.

00:44:59.000 And hopefully this is unrelated like President Trump.

00:45:01.000 Said he hoped it would be unrelated.

00:45:04.000 But if it's not, then we need to put options in place.

00:45:07.000 We need to protect those workers and we need to protect our intellectual property for our nuclear program.

00:45:12.000 Yeah, I mean, to Blake's point, though, there are specific ones.

00:45:16.000 Whether they're not all connected, maybe six of them are connected.

00:45:19.000 Maybe four of them are connected.

00:45:20.000 I mean, because some of them are uniquely weird circumstances.

00:45:24.000 I mean, there's no, even you admitted, these are really fascinating cases.

00:45:27.000 They're fascinating cases, one by one.

00:45:28.000 I want to highlight one of them.

00:45:30.000 This was Monica Reza, a metallurgist in the Los Angeles area.

00:45:34.000 She was hiking in Angeles National Forest with two friends who said they were maybe 40, 60 feet in front of her.

00:45:41.000 And they turn around and she's gone.

00:45:43.000 Never been seen again.

00:45:44.000 And there was a thorough search for this woman.

00:45:46.000 They've looked around the area, have not found her.

00:45:49.000 That is a fascinating whole case.

00:45:51.000 The Nuno Loreiro, she was 47, MIT physicist.

00:45:55.000 This was covered when it happened.

00:45:56.000 This was covered when it happened.

00:45:57.000 Shot to death at the Brown University shooting, which was like a very mysterious shooting as well.

00:46:04.000 Details about the motive.

00:46:06.000 Well, we believe we have the perpetrator of that.

00:46:09.000 He's believed to have also conducted another shooting that took place at Brown.

00:46:14.000 It's very darkly fascinating.

00:46:16.000 He seems to have been, he was a classmate of this man 20 years ago.

00:46:20.000 In fact, got better grades than him.

00:46:22.000 And he might have had this motive that his life hadn't panned out the way he wanted.

00:46:26.000 And this guy who was in his classes, they were both from Portugal, he maybe thought this guy had the life I should have had snapped, committed a heinous murder. 0.77

00:46:34.000 Very fascinating. 0.93

00:46:35.000 I mean, at the bottom line, I think it's really important that you're leading the charge here.

00:46:41.000 The oversight has a powerful role to play here and to get answers.

00:46:44.000 Because one way or the other, we want to know what this is.

00:46:46.000 And there's no doubt, Congressman, that this has completely captured the imagination of people.

00:46:51.000 I mean, we're getting emails from our audience through left and right.

00:46:54.000 Final word to you, sir.

00:46:55.000 Well, when NASA says they're investigating this, there's no agency or department or division within NASA equipped to investigate something like this.

00:47:03.000 Same with the Department of Energy.

00:47:05.000 So we believe that sometimes you can figure things out by getting all the information in one place.

00:47:12.000 And the government has a terrible history of doing that, dating all the way back to September 11th.

00:47:16.000 Different agencies knew different things about those terrorists.

00:47:19.000 If they had shared the information, then we might have prevented September 11th.

00:47:22.000 So we don't know for sure if something sinister happened here, but we're sure going to do everything in our ability to try to figure it out.

00:47:30.000 Well, again, thank you for leading the charge here, Congressman.

00:47:32.000 It's great to see you again.

00:47:34.000 Come back soon.

00:47:35.000 The House Oversight, powerful role.

00:47:37.000 You guys got all kinds of stuff going on this week, by the way.

00:47:39.000 You're voting to kick out Congressman left and right, and I'm kind of here for it.

00:47:43.000 If you have an update on Ilhan Omar, let me know, sir.

00:47:46.000 Well, she's in a lot of trouble, and we're doing everything we can to drain the swap.

00:47:49.000 It's just a Getting rid of three in a week, that's a good week, but we got a long way to go.

00:47:53.000 Yes, sir.

00:47:54.000 All right, God bless you, sir.

00:47:57.000 Keep up the great work, and we look forward to updates on that one.

00:47:59.000 All right, so we want to get into this story.

00:48:03.000 We call it the Creepy Gay Dad story, and it's just worth highlighting. 0.84

00:48:09.000 Shane McAnally is a four time Grammy Award winning country music songwriter. 1.00

00:48:15.000 He's written hit songs like Seven Summers, Body Like a Back Road, Mama's Broken Heart, and more.

00:48:23.000 He seems to write kind of whatever, wherever the wind's blowing, he writes it.

00:48:27.000 He's written songs like John Cougar, John Deere, and John 316, kind of evoking this Southern Christian tradition.

00:48:35.000 That's one title.

00:48:37.000 One song with three sort of parts to it traditional biblical values and all that stuff.

00:48:37.000 Oh, wow.

00:48:42.000 But he's also written songs for LGBTQ shows like Queer Eye.

00:48:47.000 He co wrote a song entitled Y'all Means Y'all with lyrics like If you're torn between the X's and the Y's, you ain't got to play the hand you're dealt.

00:48:58.000 Play SOT 18, please.

00:49:01.000 Y'all means all.

00:49:14.000 Okay.

00:49:15.000 Well, I'm sorry.

00:49:16.000 I'm sorry.

00:49:17.000 I apologize for playing that.

00:49:18.000 I'm sorry.

00:49:18.000 I didn't realize it was.

00:49:19.000 Country music has got to be the type of music that can most easily be generated with an AI.

00:49:24.000 It's probably.

00:49:25.000 All right.

00:49:26.000 So Shane McAnally legally married his gay lover, Michael Baum, in January of 2017, but they apparently had a commitment ceremony in 2012.

00:49:36.000 So they've been together for like 14 years.

00:49:37.000 But they weren't able to have biological children.

00:49:39.000 But they're two dudes, so they can't have biological children.

00:49:43.000 So they got their first two children, the twins, boy Dash and daughter Dylan.

00:49:49.000 Via surrogacy in 2012 before procuring another newborn via surrogacy in October of 2025.

00:49:57.000 The new baby is a little boy named Texan.

00:50:00.000 And it seems to be a name Texan?

00:50:03.000 Yeah, T E X S O N.

00:50:06.000 And now they're going viral because they posted a video laughing at this baby after the baby cried out for mama. 1.00

00:50:15.000 And there is no mama.

00:50:16.000 There's no mom around because there's.

00:50:19.000 There's only two dudes. 1.00

00:50:22.000 There's just two dudes around.

00:50:24.000 And I actually find this to be excruciating to watch.

00:50:27.000 So my apologies again.

00:50:29.000 Sot16.

00:50:30.000 Hey.

00:50:31.000 Hey.

00:50:34.000 Who do you want?

00:50:35.000 Dada or Pop? 1.00

00:50:37.000 No mama.

00:50:39.000 No mama. 1.00

00:50:40.000 There is no mama. 0.99

00:50:43.000 I'm so sorry. 0.89

00:50:45.000 You have Dada and Pop.

00:50:46.000 You have Pop.

00:50:47.000 Two choices. 1.00

00:50:48.000 No mama. 1.00

00:50:49.000 No mama.

00:50:51.000 So they thought this was funny. 0.92

00:50:52.000 It ended up exploding online.

00:50:54.000 Many of you have probably seen this clip, and I find it horrifying to watch.

00:50:57.000 But since then, another video has resurfaced when McAnally and his lover, Bom, have played a game with their kids.

00:51:08.000 Their kids to, you know, find out.

00:51:13.000 I guess they would point to each one of them, and the kids had to say who was more like whatever they were pointing out.

00:51:19.000 And I'll play the clip, you'll get the idea.

00:51:21.000 And this one's pretty disgusting because. 0.94

00:51:23.000 They say, which one of your dads is hornier? 0.98

00:51:27.000 Sounds great.

00:51:28.000 Sop 17.

00:51:29.000 Who's hornier? 0.90

00:51:33.000 Who's richest?

00:51:36.000 Okay.

00:51:37.000 They have since set their accounts to private, but Shane McAnally has talked to Daily Mail defending his post saying people have been saying some awful things.

00:51:47.000 He's the happiest baby in the world.

00:51:50.000 They thought this clip was going to be self deprecating, quote unquote, because most babies say dada before mama.

00:51:56.000 We found it hilarious.

00:51:57.000 He's five months old.

00:51:58.000 He obviously doesn't understand English.

00:52:04.000 All right.

00:52:04.000 Blake, do you want to go first?

00:52:06.000 Uh,.

00:52:07.000 This is gross and unsettling, and children should have a mom and a dad, and policy should incentivize that.

00:52:17.000 And also, country music is bad.

00:52:20.000 All right.

00:52:20.000 So, the main no, it's not.

00:52:23.000 I like country.

00:52:23.000 I grew up with country, and it's great.

00:52:25.000 All right.

00:52:25.000 So, here's what I will say I totally agree.

00:52:30.000 Our policies should enable a mom and a dad.

00:52:34.000 Kids need a mom and a dad, they need the feminine and the masculine. 0.77

00:52:37.000 That is the way God intended. 0.98

00:52:39.000 God intended for the building blocks of society to be male and female. 0.96

00:52:43.000 We learn important lessons from our mothers.

00:52:45.000 We learn important lessons from our fathers.

00:52:48.000 Now, the argument is that these children need love.

00:52:51.000 That is a fairly compelling argument for a lot of people in a lot of places when it comes to adoption, when somebody's already been born.

00:52:59.000 It's a whole other can of worms when you're talking about surrogacy.

00:53:04.000 Surrogacy is essentially renting the womb of a woman to then implant a baby and. 0.79

00:53:13.000 You know, manufacture one that you want. 0.98

00:53:16.000 Okay. 1.00

00:53:17.000 So I have a much, much bigger problem with gay couples getting babies, procuring them via surrogacy than I do with adoption. 0.56

00:53:26.000 Adoption, I'm still very uncomfortable with, but at least you could make the argument that these people need love.

00:53:31.000 Okay.

00:53:32.000 These babies need a family, they need somewhere to go. 0.81

00:53:33.000 And if not, they're going to be in a foster care system.

00:53:36.000 But surrogacy to me is completely an abomination.

00:53:39.000 I'll just be honest. 1.00

00:53:40.000 I find it disgusting, especially for gay couples. 1.00

00:53:42.000 Okay. 1.00

00:53:42.000 Now, if you are a couple that is struggling with, and you're a male and a female, and you're struggling, With fertility issues, okay, you have my grace. 1.00

00:53:50.000 I don't love it, but I'm going to extend a lot more grace to that situation than I am a gay couple.

00:53:56.000 And the reason I think that this has sparked such a backlash, Blake, is because it's the same thing for me as seeing a gay couple kiss on like a movie or a TV show.

00:54:07.000 Instantly gives, I have a visceral reaction to it. 0.99

00:54:09.000 I don't want to see it.

00:54:10.000 I think people saw this.

00:54:11.000 They felt their hearts were broken for this baby that wants its mom.

00:54:15.000 And it's just something so viscerally reactive when you see. 1.00

00:54:19.000 See a gay couple behaving. 1.00

00:54:21.000 It's just, it's unsettling to see that. 1.00

00:54:23.000 And then to be reminded of the bigger picture thing, which is kind of without a thought.

00:54:27.000 I don't think anyone ever really did much to vote for this.

00:54:31.000 It just sort of was a legal void that stuff flowed into.

00:54:33.000 We've made it so you can basically purchase children for order in the United States.

00:54:39.000 It's popular to do it here from around the world. 0.70

00:54:41.000 That's how all those Chinese billionaires get their 100 kids. 0.97

00:54:44.000 They'll buy 100 different surrogates. 0.89

00:54:46.000 We've entered a brave new world, as it were.

00:54:49.000 Dark, brave new world.

00:54:50.000 There's a lot of dark things that people can do with that.

00:54:56.000 Charlie had an absolutely relentless passion for learning.

00:54:59.000 I saw it up close and personal.

00:55:02.000 And every waking moment, every spare moment that he could, he had a book open, he had a podcast open, he had a Hillsdale online course open.

00:55:12.000 He was always diving into new ideas, absorbing information, studying up and sharpening his skills.

00:55:17.000 That's why I love Dr. Arne at Hillsdale College.

00:55:20.000 They shared a deep understanding that learning is the key to shaping your character, creating courage.

00:55:26.000 And changing lives.

00:55:27.000 Charlie never stopped learning, and neither should you.

00:55:30.000 Through Hillsdale's online courses, he spent time studying the classics, the American founding, and the enduring truths of the Bible.

00:55:37.000 Now it is your turn.

00:55:39.000 With Hillsdale's free online courses, you can follow in his footsteps, learning from real professors and challenging yourself with rigorous coursework that's free and accessible to anybody who's willing to learn.

00:55:51.000 A great place to start is their brand new course on logic and rhetoric.

00:55:55.000 Learn from Hillsdale professors how to speak masterfully.

00:55:58.000 Make a powerful point and see how clear thinking leads to better decision making and more effective speech.

00:56:04.000 Don't wait.

00:56:04.000 Go to charlieforhillsdale.com to enroll today.

00:56:07.000 It's completely free.

00:56:09.000 This is a real good one, by the way Logic and Rhetoric.

00:56:12.000 Pick up the mic, carry it forward, learn like Charlie.

00:56:16.000 Start right now at charlieforhillsdale.com.

00:56:21.000 Very excited about our next guest.

00:56:23.000 We needed a pick me up here.

00:56:25.000 We have Dr. Stephen Meyer.

00:56:26.000 He's a PhD in philosophy of science.

00:56:29.000 He's a former geophysicist.

00:56:30.000 He's the author of Return of the God Hypothesis, which we have right here because we literally keep his books in our office because they're that important.

00:56:39.000 And the book has been the inspiration of a new film that we want to talk about.

00:56:44.000 So without further ado, Dr. Meyer, welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show.

00:56:48.000 Well, thank you guys for having me.

00:56:49.000 I really appreciate the opportunity to talk about all this with your audience.

00:56:54.000 Yeah, I mean, listen, so The Story of Everything is a feature documentary adaptation of Return of the God Hypothesis, the book that I have right here.

00:57:02.000 I remember when this came out and everybody was talking about it because it's kind of like a science first look at creation, right?

00:57:10.000 A lot of times people will argue for the, you know, I guess intelligent design through a theological lens, but you are doing it with a science first perspective.

00:57:19.000 Why don't you tell us about that in this film and then we'll play the trailer so people, it's really well done.

00:57:24.000 Yeah, thank you.

00:57:25.000 Well, yeah, the book and the film describe and tell the story of the discovery of three major discoveries that reveal the reality of a transcendent and active mind behind the universe.

00:57:40.000 In other words, an intelligent agent with the attributes that traditional theists, Jews, and Christians have long ascribed to God.

00:57:48.000 So I call this the return of the God hypothesis, and that's what the film is about.

00:57:52.000 Well, I mean, I want to get into what those three.

00:57:56.000 Discoveries are, but let's play the trailer because I will tell you a bunch of people sent me this and we got to get you on to do this.

00:58:03.000 And I was like, Yeah, yeah, okay, okay, okay.

00:58:05.000 And then I looked at the trailer and I was like, Wow, this is like somebody has done a phenomenal job executing on this vision.

00:58:13.000 SOT 20.

00:58:14.000 Today, I'm going to tell you a story which may seem very strange.

00:58:21.000 Galileo, Kepler, Newton, each tried to explain.

00:58:27.000 Events in the history of the universe.

00:58:29.000 Has the universe always been here?

00:58:31.000 Or is it finite?

00:58:33.000 Is there something else that would lay these questions to rest?

00:58:36.000 It reopens that question of ultimate meaning.

00:58:39.000 How in the world did this start?

00:58:42.000 The simulation theory?

00:58:43.000 The multiverse?

00:58:44.000 You can't trust what's in front of your eyes.

00:58:46.000 Without guidance, we would get a life unfriendly universe.

00:58:50.000 Many organisms have beauty beyond anything that's relevant for their survival value.

00:58:55.000 The concept of life as a cosmic phenomenon should have many consequences.

00:59:04.000 The question then was, what does one do about it?

00:59:08.000 Really beautiful stuff, honestly.

00:59:10.000 I mean, I'm so used to people pitching projects, Doctor, and they don't look great, if I'm being honest, but this looks beautiful.

00:59:19.000 Tell us about how long you guys have been working on this.

00:59:22.000 And then I want to hear some of the three discoveries.

00:59:27.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:59:28.000 Well, the embarrassing thing about the film project is that with some delays that we encountered during the final phases of COVID, it actually took Five years to produce the film.

00:59:40.000 Wow.

00:59:41.000 It took me three and a half years to write the book.

00:59:42.000 So the film was an even more extensive project.

00:59:45.000 But we have 22 different scientists and scholars who are in it.

00:59:49.000 The filmmakers are fantastic storytellers.

00:59:52.000 So this is not a sermon on tape.

00:59:54.000 This is a genuine story.

00:59:59.000 And it's the story of two stories, the story of two competing views of reality and how modern science has revealed that one of those stories clearly provides a better explanation for what we see.

01:00:10.000 The two stories are the Thing that we've all heard that life arose and the universe arose from undirected material processes, or as Richard Dawkins put it, from blind, pitiless indifference.

01:00:22.000 And the other story is that instead there's a mind, a creator, a creative intelligence behind the universe, and we can tell by looking at, as St. Paul put it, the things that are made.

01:00:33.000 So it's, but it is, as you say, a science first approach, and it involved the producers did a fantastic job.

01:00:42.000 There are 400 visual effects.

01:00:44.000 The cinematography is gorgeous.

01:00:46.000 They take you deep out into space, deep into the interior workings of the cell.

01:00:51.000 You can see the digital information in the DNA, what it does.

01:00:55.000 You can see the nanotechnology, the little miniature machines inside the cell.

01:00:59.000 So it's a very powerful visual representation of the evidence.

01:01:04.000 There's a very strong argument that runs through it, but it's also just some very compelling storytelling, not only about the story of the scientists making the discoveries that are pointing to God.

01:01:16.000 But how those discoveries have affected their own thinking and their own lives, and in many cases have affected a kind of intellectual first and sometimes even religious conversion among the scientists who have encountered these really powerful evidences for a mind behind the universe.

01:01:33.000 Yeah, I remember actually the, I forget his name, you probably know it, doctor, but the guy who was sort of first behind the mapping of the human genome.

01:01:41.000 And he became a strong Christian.

01:01:44.000 Francis Collins, Francis Collins.

01:01:45.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:01:45.000 And he became, yeah, exactly.

01:01:46.000 So a theist.

01:01:47.000 And there is something really profound.

01:01:49.000 Like creation is so intricate and beautiful and complex that the people that study it most deeply tend to be persuaded that there is a creator.

01:02:00.000 There is something behind creation.

01:02:03.000 I'm thinking of the Artemis II launch, right?

01:02:05.000 Where there was the gentleman that was on board and he was looking at the majesty of Earth.

01:02:10.000 And he said, I'm not really a theist at all, but like I started praying and crying and weeping.

01:02:15.000 And apparently, this is a very common experience for astronauts when they come back.

01:02:20.000 Go ahead.

01:02:20.000 I can see this is.

01:02:22.000 I had a piece about that when the Artemis guys were still in space at foxnews.com at their website.

01:02:29.000 This has been a very common thing.

01:02:31.000 We send people up into space.

01:02:33.000 They look back at that beautiful blue jewel through the window in their space capsule.

01:02:38.000 And if they were religious before, they become even more religious.

01:02:43.000 And if they weren't, they become open to it.

01:02:46.000 Kind of experience of a space flight epiphany, if you will.

01:02:51.000 It goes back to the astronauts in the Apollo mission in Apollo 8.

01:02:59.000 They read the Bible, they read the biblical account of creation from Genesis on Christmas Day, 1968.

01:03:07.000 The current head of NASA, the administrator of NASA, Jared Isaacsman, has said that his time in space convinced him that, quote, the heavens declare the glory of God.

01:03:17.000 And this is one of the passages that the current astronauts emphasized as a result of their experience.

01:03:24.000 So, yeah, it's kind of a cool thing, really.

01:03:27.000 And we've seen that.

01:03:30.000 And in addition to the kind of intuitive sense that there must be something behind what they see, because you look at that beautiful blue jewel from space, and then there's the darkness behind it.

01:03:42.000 And as far as we look, we know no planets that are anywhere near as friendly to life.

01:03:49.000 As our planet is.

01:03:51.000 And then when you analyze it from the standpoint of physics, as far as all the what are called fine tuning parameters, all the parameters that have to be exactly right in our local solar system and in the universe itself to make life possible, the most obvious implication of all that fine tuning is that there must have been a fine tuner.

01:04:11.000 And this is one of the things we cover in the film.

01:04:14.000 Let's elaborate on one of the points you mentioned in passing.

01:04:17.000 So you mentioned the big picture stuff about our planet and what's exceptional about it.

01:04:21.000 Also, you said, as you put it, the nanotechnology in cells, at the smallest level that we can look at, that seems to defy comprehension as something that could arise naturally.

01:04:33.000 Could you elaborate on that point?

01:04:35.000 Well, absolutely.

01:04:36.000 I've been elaborating on that for about 30 years now.

01:04:39.000 So you better be careful what you ask for.

01:04:42.000 But yeah, the big discoveries of modern molecular biology have shown that once you open up the inside of the cell, it's not at all what people thought in Darwin's time.

01:04:53.000 Darwin's so called bulldog, his Great proponent Thomas Henry Huxley in the 1860s said that the cell is a simple homogeneous globule of undifferentiated protoplasm.

01:05:06.000 It's just a blob of jelly.

01:05:08.000 And if you think that's what the cell, the simplest unit of life, the smallest unit of life is, it's pretty easy to imagine how a few simple chemical reactions might produce something like that.

01:05:20.000 But it hasn't turned out to be so.

01:05:22.000 Instead, starting in the 1950s and 60s, in a period of rapid exploration and discovery in the field of molecular biology, scientists began to discover that inside the cell, there are first of all large information bearing molecules, the most famous of which is the DNA molecule.

01:05:43.000 Watson and Crick elucidated its structure in 1953.

01:05:47.000 In 1958, Crick had a kind of epiphany and realized.

01:05:51.000 That along the spine of the DNA molecule, there are subunits, chemical subunits that are functioning just like alphabetic characters in a written text or zeros and ones in a section of machine code.

01:06:04.000 This is a stop press moment in the history of science and the history of biology, because prior to that, people were trying to explain the origin of life from simple chemistry.

01:06:15.000 They were trying to get from chemistry to chemistry.

01:06:17.000 Now, after Crick, we realize you've got to get from chemistry to code.

01:06:21.000 How does the chemistry, how do undirected chemical processes?

01:06:25.000 Produce an elaborate information storage, transmission, and processing system, which is what's been discovered.

01:06:31.000 And instead, we know chemistry doesn't do this, but we do know something that does make code, and that is intelligence.

01:06:38.000 Bill Gates says that the DNA is like a software program, but much more complex than any we've ever created.

01:06:47.000 Richard Dawkins has said the same thing.

01:06:49.000 Doctor, when does the film come out, and how do people watch it?

01:06:52.000 Yeah, fantastic.

01:06:53.000 The film opens April 30th in theaters.

01:06:56.000 That's next Thursday.

01:06:58.000 And people can get tickets by going to the story of everything.film.

01:07:04.000 And yeah, that we appreciate the interest.

01:07:08.000 Yeah, absolutely.

01:07:09.000 So check it out, get your tickets.

01:07:11.000 You guys are doing like an event, right?

01:07:12.000 It's like a Fathom event.

01:07:14.000 Like, so on Thursday, there's going to be theaters all over the country that people can watch this at.

01:07:18.000 Well, this is a week long opening.

01:07:20.000 So it's not just a typical Fathom event.

01:07:22.000 This is a Fathom functioning as a full on distributor.

01:07:25.000 So we get a week guaranteed.

01:07:27.000 We're in over 500 theaters already, and we're adding them daily as more and more interest is coming in.

01:07:32.000 Our pre sales are very strong.

01:07:34.000 We're hoping to kick over into a second week, and then there'll be a digital release beyond that.

01:07:39.000 So, great.

01:07:40.000 So, please.

01:07:41.000 I do encourage people to see it in theaters, though, because it was really the producers made this with a big screen in mind.

01:07:48.000 It is, it's just, I didn't see it on a big screen until a recent screening, and it's just gorgeous.

01:07:54.000 There's 400 visual effects, great cinematography.

01:07:58.000 You go deep, way out into space, and then deep into the interior of the cell, and there's a fantastic story that goes with all the beautiful imagery.

01:08:05.000 Yeah, and I encourage everybody take your friends, buy a bunch of tickets, take your friends, churches, do this with, you know, it doesn't have to be a church.

01:08:13.000 It could just be you've got that friend that you've been working on for a while and they're open.

01:08:17.000 And they just need a little intellectual equipping to get over the hump.

01:08:22.000 So we talked about this Artemis 2 clip, and I just really want to play it for people because I just thought it was so beautiful the way he described it.

01:08:31.000 SOT 21.

01:08:33.000 On the ship, I'm not a, I'm not really religious person, but there was just no other avenue for me to, to explain anything or to experience anything.

01:08:42.000 So I asked for the chaplain on the Navy ship to just come visit us for a minute.

01:08:46.000 And when that man walked in, I'd never met him before in my life, but I saw the cross on his, on his collar and I just, I broke down in tears.

01:08:52.000 Like the, it's very hard to fully grasp what we just went through.

01:08:57.000 And in these short, you just said it's been a week since we've been back, but it's been a week of medical testing, physical testing, doctors.

01:09:03.000 Science objectives.

01:09:05.000 We have not had that decompression.

01:09:07.000 We have not had that reflection time.

01:09:09.000 So I'm basing this on what we saw.

01:09:11.000 And when the sun eclipsed behind the moon, I think all four of us turned to Victor and I said, I don't think humanity has evolved to the point of being able to comprehend what we're looking at right now because it was otherworldly.

01:09:22.000 It was amazing.

01:09:24.000 Wow.

01:09:25.000 Just incredible.

01:09:26.000 All right.

01:09:27.000 So I have a question for you.

01:09:28.000 If you want to react to that, Sir.

01:09:30.000 Well, I was just going to say that connects with a very strong theme in the film, which is the The fine tuning of the universe that allows for life and the fine tuning of our planetary system that makes life on planet Earth possible.

01:09:45.000 We have a section in the film precisely on what they have been seeing and describing, which is all the intricate parameters that were set up just right to make life on planet Earth possible and some beautiful, beautiful photography.

01:10:00.000 One of those parameters is actually the possibility of an eclipse.

01:10:06.000 The distance between the Earth and the sun.

01:10:09.000 Exactly matches geometrically what you need given the size of the moon in relation to the earth to make eclipses possible, and that we can have eclipses is one of the things that makes it possible for us to make basic discoveries about the universe and the cosmos.

01:10:25.000 So, there's a book called The Privileged Planet that's co authored by Guillermo Gonzalez and Jay Richards.

01:10:31.000 Jay Richards is featured in the film describing this, and that book makes the argument that not only is our planetary system fine tuned or designed for life.

01:10:41.000 It's fine tuned and designed for us to be able to make scientific discoveries, that is, to know something about the cosmos and its creator.

01:10:50.000 So, the intuitive response of the astronauts is well supported by scientific evidence about just how incredibly designed our planetary system is.

01:11:01.000 I have so many questions for you, Dr. Meyer, and we've got two minutes left in this segment, but it's.

01:11:08.000 It's like one question I would have for you is if somebody who's not a believer came to you and said, I don't believe because we're all just primordial goo, the product of, and we've evolved and all this stuff.

01:11:21.000 I mean, what do you do?

01:11:22.000 What's your first reaction, your first answer?

01:11:25.000 Well, I go right back to where we were talking, to the subject we were talking about before the break, which is that in the interior of the cell, you have these information bearing molecules where the information is.

01:11:39.000 Being used by the cell to direct the construction of the proteins and the protein nanomachines that make it possible for living organisms to stay alive.

01:11:49.000 And we know from our experience that information, computer code, always comes from a programmer.

01:11:56.000 And in fact, whenever we see information, we trace it back to its source, whether we're talking about the information in a computer program or in a section in a book or a hieroglyphic inscription or the information that we're transmitting back and forth between ourselves right now.

01:12:13.000 Information always issues or comes ultimately from a mind.

01:12:17.000 So, the discovery of information at the foundation of life in every living cell is a powerful indicator of the activity of a designing mind in the origin and history of life itself.

01:12:28.000 We wouldn't attempt to explain the origin of the iPhone apart from the mind of Steve Jobs, right?

01:12:35.000 So, the fact that we can't see the creator doesn't mean that we might not be in possession of an artifact or of a system that is bearing witness to.

01:12:46.000 The existence of a prior cause.

01:12:47.000 It's completely legitimate scientifically to reason from effect back to cause.

01:12:52.000 And in the case of information, the cause of information is always a mind.

01:12:57.000 Creation declares his glory.

01:12:58.000 The story of everything in theaters nationwide beginning April 30th, 2026.

01:13:04.000 Dr. Meyer, thank you for your time today.

01:13:06.000 Wonderful experience.

01:13:07.000 Thanks very much.

01:13:12.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to charliekirk.com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - April 22, 2026

Down with the SPLC + The Greatness of Justice Alito

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