The Charlie Kirk Show - Dr. Drew Post Pandemic: What He's Learned about Covid, Cannabis, and Pain

00:00:00.000 Hey, everybody.

00:00:00.000 Today in the Charlie Kirk show, Dr. Drew joins us for an in-depth conversation on marijuana, COVID, opioids, the scientific method, practicing medicine, and why young people are the most depressed, suicidal, alcohol-addicted, and drug-addicted generation in history.

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00:00:51.000 Buckle up, everybody.

00:00:52.000 Here we go.

00:00:52.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:54.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

00:00:56.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

00:01:00.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:01:03.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:01:04.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:01:05.000 His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created.

00:01:12.000 Turning point USA.

00:01:13.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

00:01:22.000 That's why we are here.

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00:01:51.000 Okay, we have a great guest this hour, everybody.

00:01:53.000 It's Dr. Drew Pinsky, board certified physician, also the chief patient officer of the Wellness Company.

00:02:03.000 And please subscribe to his YouTube channel.

00:02:04.000 Dr. Drew, welcome to the program.

00:02:06.000 Charlie, pleasure to be here.

00:02:07.000 Thank you for having me.

00:02:08.000 Last to discuss.

00:02:10.000 I understand you have some contrarian opinions on one of my favorite topics to tackle, marijuana.

00:02:16.000 I am increasingly a skeptic on mass legalization of weed and marijuana.

00:02:22.000 I just want to start with that out of the gate because there has been this ferocious push.

00:02:27.000 All of our lives, the trend has been towards getting marijuana more and more legal, more and more accepted.

00:02:33.000 It's getting legalized everywhere without ever talking about the risks or the harms.

00:02:38.000 Dr. Drew, how do you think about this topic?

00:02:40.000 Right.

00:02:40.000 So the risk harms are the things that I worry about.

00:02:43.000 I have taken an agnostic position on legalization.

00:02:46.000 I don't feel like a physician should be determining the law.

00:02:49.000 The people need to determine the law.

00:02:51.000 But the fact that we've not been able to have a rational conversation about this chemical for at least 25 years has been deeply, deeply disturbing to me.

00:03:00.000 So my take on it is people try to always paint you into a cartoon character.

00:03:06.000 And of course, what goes viral is never what you said.

00:03:09.000 It's what somebody said you said.

00:03:11.000 So my actual opinion about this is a little bit complicated.

00:03:15.000 Let me just start out by saying there is no such thing as a good drug and a bad drug, a good or bad chemical.

00:03:24.000 It's just a molecule.

00:03:26.000 Now, the human relationship with a molecule can be complicated.

00:03:30.000 It can be both good and bad.

00:03:32.000 Fentanyl, catastrophic if you're an opiate addict.

00:03:35.000 Fentanyl, save you from profound suffering if you have cancer pain, both good and bad.

00:03:41.000 Or an epidural.

00:03:42.000 And it can be both.

00:03:43.000 You need fentanyl for an epidural.

00:03:44.000 There you go.

00:03:44.000 Epidural or morphine or whatever.

00:03:47.000 You name it.

00:03:48.000 It can have.

00:03:49.000 Look at that.

00:03:49.000 We're starting to look at hallucinogenics therapeutic value.

00:03:52.000 Are there no risk there?

00:03:53.000 No massive risk there.

00:03:54.000 What is the risk reward?

00:03:56.000 And in this country, by the way, COVID was a great lesson in us forgetting risk-reward.

00:04:01.000 It was easily predictable.

00:04:03.000 We can talk about this later, but it was profoundly predictable that lockdown would have massive mental health consequences.

00:04:09.000 Take a nine-year-old and tell that nine-year-old, as our mayor did in this city, and tell him or her, shelter in place, hide under your bed every night, championing that as though an incoming nuclear weapon was coming. 0.96

00:04:21.000 And if you crawl out from under your bed, you're going to kill your family.

00:04:24.000 And in the meantime, the thing you need the most to be nourished is cognition, cognitive development, and social development.

00:04:30.000 We're going to restrict you from access to that for two years.

00:04:33.000 You don't think that's going to have mental health consequences?

00:04:36.000 Pretty easy to predict that.

00:04:38.000 So, back to cannabis.

00:04:40.000 So, cannabis is a complicated drug, both good and bad.

00:04:44.000 The real issue these days that people need to worry about is the concentration of the cannabis is so profound.

00:04:52.000 It's approaching 100% in many situations that we're starting to see things that I really didn't actually believe happened from cannabis.

00:04:59.000 So, it's rather common right now to see psychotic episodes, manic psychotic episodes.

00:05:05.000 They sort of appear like that.

00:05:07.000 Something like 25% of these drug-induced psychosis patients go on to have permanent thought disturbances, and it's become increasingly common.

00:05:16.000 I actually, for a long time, didn't believe that it was a significant issue, but now it's clearly causative in these higher concentrations.

00:05:23.000 And of course, addiction is an issue.

00:05:25.000 Does everybody get addicted?

00:05:27.000 No.

00:05:28.000 My daughter is a recovering cannabis addict, nearly destroyed her life.

00:05:32.000 She has not missed a meeting in the last two and a half years.

00:05:34.000 She goes to regular meetings because of this condition, and she needs to do so.

00:05:39.000 Otherwise, her drive to use this drug will kick back in and take over. 1.00

00:05:45.000 So, I, you know, there's many other complexities to this, but I'm open for questions from you.

00:05:49.000 Well, but Dr. Drew, I'm told that marijuana is not habit forming and not addictive.

00:05:55.000 So, so here's here's one of the craziest aspects of that discussion: well, maybe it's psychologically addictive.

00:06:01.000 Look, you could either stop something or you cannot.

00:06:04.000 And if you cannot stop something, there's nothing psychological about that.

00:06:08.000 That is a biological event.

00:06:10.000 We know exactly where it occurs.

00:06:12.000 It's in the shell of the nucleus or cumbersome in the medial forebrain bundle.

00:06:15.000 Tends to only happen in genetically predisposed individual.

00:06:18.000 But once that kicks in, you now have a disorder, an illness that is a disorder of motivation where all usual motivations shrink, and the motivation to use the substance emerges as the ultimate priority.

00:06:32.000 And cannabis can trigger that in some people, not everybody.

00:06:37.000 Charlie, I'm not interested in bumming people's high or telling people they should never use a substance.

00:06:42.000 I'm not interested in that.

00:06:43.000 I'm interested in helping people when they can't stop.

00:06:46.000 And that is a growing population.

00:06:49.000 And look, making it legal, the biggest problem making it legal kind of surprised me was the actually market effects.

00:06:56.000 So the market influence of legalization has caused the producers to develop better, better, better products.

00:07:02.000 That's how a market works.

00:07:04.000 And that is having more and more and more consequences.

00:07:07.000 We need to begin having real conversations about that and helping people that have issues with it.

00:07:13.000 Yeah.

00:07:13.000 And I guess a happy media middle ground should be things that are highly addictive typically come with some form of government regulation and informed consent.

00:07:22.000 Vast majority of the American population has no idea, as you mentioned, potential schizophrenic paranoia, anxiety, depression.

00:07:30.000 A new study last week of CNN of all places published that even casual marijuana use once a month could increase your risk of heart disease and blood clotting in the heart, you know, PACs, PDCs, all these sorts of things.

00:07:44.000 Yeah, that, well, I mean, the arrhythmia is not surprising.

00:07:49.000 Almost any substance can cause rhythm disturbances.

00:07:52.000 But The issue of is does it cause coronary artery disease is now back on the table.

00:07:59.000 I have to say, I have not seen, I've worked with and treated and known as friends a lot of chronic marijuana users.

00:08:06.000 And I've not, it's not like cigarettes, whatever it's going to be, it's not going to be like cigarettes.

00:08:10.000 So, the question is: does it impact it at all?

00:08:12.000 So, the other thought that some people will say is that the marijuana of today is laced with other things.

00:08:18.000 It's stronger.

00:08:20.000 It has, you know, much heavier THC type components.

00:08:23.000 And it's also, that's the issue.

00:08:25.000 Yeah, it's more.

00:08:26.000 Can you just build that out even further?

00:08:28.000 Because a parent might be listening saying, Oh, I did, you know, pot back in 1975, not a big deal.

00:08:34.000 Yeah.

00:08:34.000 No, that is not what your kids are using.

00:08:37.000 The cannabis you use is not the cannabis your kids are using.

00:08:40.000 As I said, it is approaching 100%.

00:08:44.000 And adolescents are a special population, right?

00:08:47.000 I mean, it's increasingly clear that not only does it interfere with the social-emotional development of children, there are brain changes associated with it.

00:08:55.000 And it appears that some of these may be permanent, and there's grave concerns about that.

00:09:00.000 How much do you have to use to get that?

00:09:01.000 We don't know exactly.

00:09:03.000 But I will tell you what.

00:09:05.000 Kids go to great lengths to hide what they're doing from their parents.

00:09:10.000 I have never met, and I hope maybe I'm not, maybe I'm meeting one and Charlie for the first time, but I've never met a 15-year-old that was absolutely always honest with their parents.

00:09:19.000 I've not met that 15-year-old, at least not in the modern era.

00:09:21.000 And so they are hiding things from you.

00:09:24.000 And one of the things they universally hide is experimentation with substances.

00:09:29.000 And if you are finding evidence of substance use, meaning they are getting so far down the road and so sloppy with their hiding of it, that you are finding paraphernalia, you're finding things in their backpack, you find things in their room.

00:09:43.000 This is not a parenting problem any longer.

00:09:45.000 This is a medical psychiatric problem.

00:09:48.000 You need to get help if you are finding evidence of it.

00:09:52.000 You need to, the parenting part is to make to kids super clear what the consequences will be of their using.

00:10:00.000 And as someone that worked in this field for a long, long time, the clearer and the more severe, the better the outcome.

00:10:07.000 Now, it doesn't mean they'll never use drugs, but you want to get them through adolescence.

00:10:10.000 I mean, I look, I have a daughter who's a cannabis addict, and I got her through adolescence.

00:10:14.000 She didn't use anything, straight edge. 0.67

00:10:16.000 And then college, well, that whole other story.

00:10:19.000 Thank you, Columbia University.

00:10:23.000 But, you know, if you can be all your job as the parent is to be the execute, to be the person that establishes the laws, communicates the laws, and then drops the axe where the laws are violated.

00:10:34.000 That's it.

00:10:35.000 It's not about you.

00:10:36.000 It's not about them.

00:10:37.000 You're the executioner.

00:10:38.000 Try not to put a lot of emotion into it, but you must deliver the consequences when the violations occur.

00:10:44.000 So, Dr. Drew, what is the average age now that a child is trying potential?

00:10:51.000 I don't want to say hallucinogenic marijuana, but just powerful marijuana.

00:10:55.000 Yeah, it's in the early teens.

00:10:57.000 I mean, kids are getting exposed to everything now in their early teens and pornography, cannabis, alcohol, it's happening earlier and earlier.

00:11:04.000 And of course, the earlier, the more profound the effects on the brain.

00:11:08.000 Not on everybody, but the potential for really serious effects is there.

00:11:11.000 And certainly when it comes to all the pornographic images that rain down on them at age 10, 9, we have no idea yet the consequences that is having.

00:11:21.000 So, Dr. Drew, the Wall Street Journal has come out and they say that we can now treat COVID like the flu.

00:11:27.000 Your reaction?

00:11:29.000 Shocking, right?

00:11:31.000 I mean, I'm not even sure.

00:11:33.000 Well, it's interesting, right?

00:11:34.000 It's in most cases, it's not even the flu.

00:11:36.000 It's more like just a viral cold is what we would call a cold.

00:11:41.000 The reality is, though, that COVID does cause something we're beginning to conceptualize as a spike opathy, meaning the spike protein seems to be the pathogenic property.

00:11:53.000 And if enough spike protein circulates, it seems to cause injury or inflammation to arteries, particularly small arteries.

00:12:00.000 And that seems to be how one of the potential mechanisms whereby COVID does its thing.

00:12:04.000 But what is driving me crazy, a lot to be said on that front, because one of the issues there is, well, then why did you create a vaccine against the very substance that causes the most serious parts of the illness?

00:12:16.000 And then why demand that vaccine continue?

00:12:20.000 That's odd, but different issue.

00:12:22.000 The issue is whether or not it's the same as the flu, which it really is now.

00:12:27.000 Nobody's hospitalized for COVID any longer.

00:12:29.000 What drives me crazy is that when I raise issues about risk reward, such as, you know, should a 24-year-old or a 32-year-old male be getting this vaccine, given that there's a one in 5,000 or say 1 in 15,000 risk of myocarditis and a zero risk of COVID, should they be getting the vaccine?

00:12:49.000 What is sort of splayed out in front of me invariably is data at the most, the most current would be from 2022, two years ago.

00:12:59.000 We are in JN1 right now.

00:13:01.000 That was XBB.1.5.

00:13:02.000 This is a different illness.

00:13:04.000 The CDC just told you this is a different illness.

00:13:06.000 Why would people mandate something that has no risk and yet has real risk from the vaccine?

00:13:15.000 Now, I saw something yesterday where Peter Hotez put out a thread.

00:13:19.000 It was actually, I appreciated it because it was a very clear thread about his thinking.

00:13:23.000 And his insistence is that you can still change viral load in the community with suppression, with a vaccine.

00:13:32.000 Again, data is very, very sketchy on this, and that he is predicting the virus will transmit and will mutate into something more serious.

00:13:42.000 Therefore, we have to stay on top of it.

00:13:44.000 So it's a really odd thinking for which there is really no good evidence.

00:13:48.000 And the CDC is telling us that a little bit here, a little bit, yet they're continuing with their vaccine push.

00:13:54.000 Yeah.

00:13:55.000 And they, but the good news is only 10 to 15% of people are still taking the booster and taking the vaccine.

00:14:01.000 So I guess almost no one gets hospitalized now for COVID.

00:14:04.000 Is that because there has been built natural immunity over time, that the virus is lessening in its, for lack of a better term, ferocity or impact?

00:14:15.000 Because people were being hospitalized for something a year and a half ago.

00:14:19.000 Yeah.

00:14:20.000 All the above.

00:14:21.000 All of the above.

00:14:22.000 And I would say that, you know, look, we know that natural immunity is the most potent and the most persistent.

00:14:30.000 People argue about whether neutralizing antibodies against the spike protein is really the issue.

00:14:35.000 But look, it is how our immune system works.

00:14:38.000 It's how viruses work in pandemic settings.

00:14:41.000 This is, it gets less.

00:14:44.000 It dies out.

00:14:45.000 This is what happens.

00:14:46.000 Could it, because there's worry that this is some sort of biological agent, could it continue to mutate in some kind of unforeseen way?

00:14:53.000 I guess so.

00:14:54.000 If people want to tell us that this was actually for sure manipulated by mankind, let us know so we can understand your thinking in terms of worrying about mutations in a direction that just don't tend to happen in nature.

00:15:08.000 That would be very interesting.

00:15:10.000 But of course, no one says that.

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00:16:35.000 So, Dr. Drew, as someone who cares deeply about medicine and helping people, just kind of you reflect on the last four years.

00:16:41.000 We're coming up on the four-year anniversary on 15 Days to Slow the Spread.

00:16:45.000 It has been, dare I say, a profound revolution in medicine and not a good one.

00:16:50.000 Dr. Drew?

00:16:51.000 No.

00:16:52.000 No.

00:16:53.000 No, it exposed a lot of things that, frankly, I was not aware of.

00:16:58.000 The first thing that shocked me was when my peers were sending people home to come back when they were blue.

00:17:04.000 I've never heard of such a thing.

00:17:06.000 Really, it was such a dereliction of duty.

00:17:08.000 I was shocked that at least follow patients, at least stay with them, offer them something, even if it's just a steroid or an auction or something that you stay on top of the case.

00:17:18.000 Instead, people were told by what I didn't understand was that they're essentially their employer.

00:17:25.000 So it turns out that somewhere around two-thirds of physicians are actually employees and their jobs were jeopardized should they use their brain to do what was in the best interest of the patient.

00:17:37.000 I didn't realize how much really it was the electronic medical record and the way we train physicians had become essentially box checkers.

00:17:46.000 I'm struggling with a medical record right now.

00:17:47.000 Every time you go to break, I'm trying to order a prescription for a patient because the pharmacies won't take calls in California.

00:17:54.000 Now you have to do it on an electronic system.

00:17:58.000 It's going to take me all an hour to get one prescription filled for a patient because of all the boxes I have to check out and chuck in with my office and make sure the boxes are checked on the records.

00:18:07.000 It is not the youth to practice of medicine any longer.

00:18:11.000 So we become criticized, we become discouraged from using critical thought, discouraged from putting the patient ahead of everything else, protecting the patient-doctor relationship.

00:18:24.000 These things are all sort of gone, and physicians are employees.

00:18:29.000 And I should have seen it coming.

00:18:30.000 I mean, I fought against what the insurances were doing.

00:18:34.000 It was egregious how they were controlling the care of patients, but now it's gone all the way where patients are active, physicians are actually employees.

00:18:43.000 And they were told during COVID to stand down, essentially, which they did, which was shocking.

00:18:49.000 And then the fact that physicians started jumping into camps where you were not allowed to talk about certain things, it's contrary to science.

00:18:57.000 It was the exact opposite of the scientific method and the exact opposite of how progress happened in medicine.

00:19:04.000 I mean, in my day, every at least twice a week, we sit in a room and criticize each other and propose provocative ideas and come up with new things in the literature and question what was out there.

00:19:16.000 No, it was thus saith the Lord and no question.

00:19:20.000 And then the latest thing that I've seen is the medical literature appears to be adulterated, which is just a shock to me that the data only goes one direction.

00:19:32.000 And I keep hearing story after story of people, excellent researchers with extraordinary records and pedigrees, unable to publish data in the major journals if it in any way runs contrary to the prevailing wisdom, which is, again, the opposite of the purpose of medical literature.

00:19:51.000 Science is a back and forth.

00:19:53.000 It's never just goes one way.

00:19:55.000 That's why you have to read the medical literature because it goes back and forth over time.

00:20:00.000 And then a consensus emerges over time.

00:20:03.000 Medicine, biology is a probability equation.

00:20:07.000 It's not a yes or no or a black or white proposition.

00:20:10.000 It's a series of probabilities.

00:20:12.000 And because of that, the data reflects that.

00:20:15.000 And it doesn't all go one way.

00:20:17.000 If you see it all go one way, you know there's something wrong.

00:20:19.000 The other thing is physician impression, clinical experience has been completely marginalized.

00:20:28.000 That was that always sat at the head of what we did.

00:20:31.000 In other words, well, here's what my impression has been.

00:20:34.000 The literature seems to run contrary to that.

00:20:36.000 I wonder if my impression is wrong or if the literature will catch up with what I'm seeing clinically.

00:20:42.000 And I would say at least seven times out of 10, the literature was wrong and catches up with the doctor's clinical experience.

00:20:50.000 So about just really quick on this, Dr. Drew, has anyone ever apologized for what they did?

00:20:56.000 Are you aware of that?

00:20:57.000 Apologize?

00:20:59.000 It's laughable.

00:21:00.000 It's a boy.

00:21:01.000 Well, one of the health directors in Alberta, Canada came forward and apologized.

00:21:06.000 And I saw somebody else in Canada apologize.

00:21:09.000 So, and here and there, things happen.

00:21:12.000 I personally have tried to apologize wherever I've gotten things wrong because I get things wrong.

00:21:16.000 I get things wrong all the time.

00:21:18.000 One of my most egregious sort of transgressions, I was talking to, oh, my aging brain.

00:21:26.000 I'm going to blank on her name right now.

00:21:28.000 The female, oh, well, she's well known, and she was talking about women empowerment, freedom fighter, and she has been raising issues about Naomi Wolf, raising issues about irregular Menses and bleeding issues in women.

00:21:43.000 And when she first came on my streaming show and said that, I went, Naomi, everything affects women's hair. 1.00

00:21:48.000 Periods. 0.99

00:21:48.000 Come on, relax. 0.99

00:21:50.000 I'm sure it's true, but who cares?

00:21:53.000 That was such a sexist attitude that was so male-centric.

00:21:57.000 I really had to slap myself when I started thinking, well, not only was she right, and it had a major effect on things like fertility and whatnot.

00:22:06.000 And lo and behold, you know, some people are questioning the LNPs now being distributed as well as certain aspects of the spike protein in the uterus, in the ovaries.

00:22:16.000 And there's some data there and some concerns there.

00:22:18.000 It's like, okay, well, I should have been listening because if I'd listened to women's complaints, I might have started to look down the road to see if there are any biological issues there. 1.00

00:22:26.000 Now, I don't know whether it's a big deal or not, but the fact that I didn't listen is reprehensible, and I apologize.

00:22:32.000 I apologize for being that male-centric.

00:22:36.000 Well, we won't get an apology from Fauci or from any of the leaders at the top.

00:22:43.000 The globalists are making it very clear that another pandemic could be just around the corner.

00:22:47.000 They want us to live in fear, to be willing to sacrifice our freedoms.

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00:22:51.000 You need to be prepared, not scared.

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00:23:23.000 Again, that's TWC.health slash Charlie, promo code Charlie for 10% off.

00:23:27.000 See site for details, prescription may be required.

00:23:32.000 Recently, I informed somebody that there's a new Hippocratic oath or has been where do no harm is no longer in the Hippocratic oath.

00:23:41.000 People don't know that.

00:23:43.000 Doctor, can you elaborate on that for the audience?

00:23:45.000 Because if it was really the case, why would they deploy an experimental MNRA gene-altering vaccine on the population?

00:23:52.000 Dr. Drew.

00:23:53.000 So I don't know that do no harm is gone, although I know there are alternative oaths that people are taking.

00:24:02.000 It would be hard pressed for someone from my generation not to at least emphasize do no harm.

00:24:07.000 I think the issue is it has two things have seem, whether that's true or not, seem to have diminished in their priority.

00:24:16.000 In my career, I've been a physician for over 40 years.

00:24:20.000 I got to think about this how long it's been.

00:24:22.000 Yeah, about 40 years I've been in practice.

00:24:25.000 And two things were paramount: A, do no harm.

00:24:29.000 Number one, that was numero uno, do no harm.

00:24:34.000 I don't think that is numero uno any longer.

00:24:37.000 And number two, the ability to make a risk reward analysis has almost been eliminated from the thought process, which is shocking to me.

00:24:47.000 I remember during COVID talking to peers going, one death is too many.

00:24:51.000 It's like, yeah, of course you don't want somebody to die, but one, if one person, if we're in a pandemic, it's defined by excess deaths.

00:25:00.000 They're going to be deaths.

00:25:01.000 I'm sorry.

00:25:02.000 It is too many, but we can't establish our risk-reward analysis as zero deaths, safety uberalis.

00:25:10.000 This whole thing of safety uberalis.

00:25:12.000 Listen, everybody, I've become obsessed lately with the French Revolution.

00:25:17.000 The echoes are extraordinary.

00:25:19.000 And I want you to remember, you know, Robespierre in his excesses, he was the head of a committee entitled the Committee for Public Safety.

00:25:29.000 When things go off the rail, it is often in the name of safety.

00:25:32.000 So safety uberalis is not a healthy place. 0.99

00:25:36.000 Life is full of risks, and it's about assessing the risk-reward.

00:25:40.000 And so risk-reward itself has been taken off the table.

00:25:44.000 On top of that, the idea of pharmaceutical agents of any sort, whether it's a vaccine agent or whatever you want to call it, being risky, I don't understand what's happened.

00:25:54.000 I was raised by a family practitioner.

00:25:56.000 My dad was a family practitioner, and he would never let me take pharmaceutical agents.

00:26:01.000 I remember the first time I took an antibiotic, I was 15 years old.

00:26:04.000 And I remember when he gave it to me, he was like, all right, here we go.

00:26:07.000 You're going to, your pediatrician wants you to take this.

00:26:09.000 So I'm going to do it, but who knows what the consequence will be?

00:26:13.000 We've lost track of that.

00:26:14.000 We think of medicines as only good.

00:26:17.000 And that is never the case.

00:26:18.000 Never, never.

00:26:19.000 It's what is the risk of this medicine versus the potential reward.

00:26:23.000 The average American gets two, let's just say, schedules of antibiotics a year.

00:26:27.000 And antibiotics are usually, they start on kids as young as 18 months to 24 months now.

00:26:32.000 Oh, yeah.

00:26:33.000 Oh, yeah.

00:26:34.000 And let's listen.

00:26:34.000 Let's talk about psychotropics for a minute.

00:26:36.000 I mean, the overutilized, we get that.

00:26:39.000 We get psychiatric meds so wrong.

00:26:40.000 We're both over-prescribing and under-prescribing simultaneously.

00:26:44.000 How do we do that?

00:26:44.000 It's amazing.

00:26:45.000 That is.

00:26:46.000 So, Dr. Drew, I want to, I want to, yeah, someone in the chat just said, my 14-year-old already has, 14-month-old already had three antibiotic prescriptions already, not to mention creating superpathogens in response to the overindulgence on antibiotics and what it does to the gut and what it does to the ability to have a healthy gut microbiome.

00:27:09.000 So, Dr. In the next segment, I want to talk about the wellness company.

00:27:12.000 I also want to talk about how there is some hope of a new community of people that have a heightened sense of awareness around health and wellness.

00:27:19.000 I being one of them, after we were lively propagandized by the CDC, I decided to take things into my own hands and to change my diet and to change the books I read.

00:27:30.000 I think there's a growing community of people that do not want to just be controlled, that just want to be propagandized.

00:27:37.000 There's a growing group of people post-COVID that care far more about their health, far more about what they put in their body than they did before COVID.

00:27:45.000 It's not a majority of Americans, but it's young moms. 0.92

00:27:48.000 I mean, the amount of young moms that are, let me just say, asking questions about vaccines, asking questions about antibiotic regimens, asking questions about, you know, the food they feed their kids is growing.

00:28:00.000 It's in the millions.

00:28:01.000 Dr. Drew, are you seeing a similar trend?

00:28:04.000 Oh, yes.

00:28:05.000 And I, listen, I personally experienced it in the sense that I'm open to at least evaluating things I would have been very dismissive of just three or four years ago.

00:28:16.000 Very.

00:28:17.000 And now I'm open-minded about a lot of things that I would have just completely thought was wild, frankly.

00:28:25.000 But yes, I'm not alone.

00:28:27.000 And that is, I'm so glad you brought this up because that is wonderful news.

00:28:32.000 I have sort of shifted my own focus into sort of fitness and diet to try to help promote and motivate people to really look after that.

00:28:42.000 I mean, we are in sad shape in this country.

00:28:44.000 Number one, there are some that are doing a great job, but the majority are not.

00:28:48.000 And then number two, I've sort of given up on protecting the patient-doctor relationship, which I fought hard for.

00:28:55.000 By the way, I fought against the opioid epidemic, the over-prescribing of opiates.

00:29:00.000 That was just a catastrophe.

00:29:02.000 And I fought against that.

00:29:03.000 And I'm telling you something, if you want to talk about this, the playbook they used in that epidemic, exact same playbook with COVID, exact same playbook.

00:29:10.000 It was uncanny.

00:29:11.000 But anyway, as a result, now I am interested in empowering patients.

00:29:16.000 And so I got involved with the wellness company in terms of giving access to people to get things they should have without having to go to an urgent care and spend $1,600 or wait two weeks for a doctor's appointment.

00:29:26.000 There are better, cheaper ways to do this.

00:29:28.000 And that's what we're doing at the Wellness Company.

00:29:30.000 Yeah.

00:29:30.000 So talk more about that.

00:29:30.000 And then I do want you to make the connection between opioids and COVID.

00:29:33.000 I think that's super interesting.

00:29:34.000 But we have a wellness company promo code around here somewhere.

00:29:37.000 I want to make sure our audience is aware of it.

00:29:39.000 I think it's twc.health slash something.

00:29:42.000 I don't know what it is, but we'll find that in a second.

00:29:45.000 But talk more about it because look, I...

00:29:47.000 It's been a great group.

00:29:48.000 It's been really, they've exceeded my expectations, right?

00:29:51.000 I've been skeptical of everything these days.

00:29:52.000 And so I walked in slowly and I'm like, oh, we're going to do some good here.

00:29:56.000 We're going to give people access to things that they can trust, that they can use on their own, that they can have a telehealth backup at a reasonable price if they want it.

00:30:06.000 It's all stuff.

00:30:07.000 It's all stuff that just makes sense.

00:30:08.000 But in these gigantic systems where the patient is the last priority, how could it possibly be any different?

00:30:15.000 So it's opportunity.

00:30:17.000 And thankfully, there's motivated people there who really want an organization they can trust.

00:30:21.000 And I would say check them out.

00:30:23.000 TWC, I think, what, TWC.com?

00:30:25.000 Is that where they are right now?

00:30:26.000 Yeah, TWC.

00:30:27.000 You go to my website.

00:30:27.000 There it is.

00:30:28.000 Yeah, doctor.com/slash TWC.

00:30:30.000 It's all there.

00:30:31.000 And it's interesting to me that there are people motivated and their organizations trying to meet the needs of the motivated population.

00:30:40.000 And please, everybody, one day I hope TWC will do a health and fitness piece as well.

00:30:46.000 But there's stuff out there for you with that, too.

00:30:48.000 There's ways to do it inexpensively and to get motivated and to follow dietary plans.

00:30:51.000 It's so, you just got to do it.

00:30:53.000 You got to pay attention.

00:30:54.000 And it's time, everybody.

00:30:56.000 And by the way, on the top of that, the mental health part, I'm about to get involved with the delivery of mental health through the internet, through the telehealth and whatnot, because we have just, we've done a terrible job.

00:31:09.000 Look, here's the one thing that I want to say, and you'll like this, Charlie, is that when Sigmund Freud first came to this country, right?

00:31:16.000 The reporter put microphones in his face and said, Dr. Freud, what do you hope to accomplish?

00:31:21.000 I guess they were taking notes back in those days with you here in America.

00:31:24.000 He said, well, what I hope to do is establish the difference understanding of bona fide mental illness and ordinary misery.

00:31:33.000 We have lost track of ordinary misery in this country.

00:31:37.000 Ordinary misery is good.

00:31:40.000 It builds character, resiliency, problem solving, building a self that is able to feel competent in the face of ordinary misery.

00:31:51.000 And for me, just as a little aside for you all, if you have trouble functioning for more than two weeks or you're having dangerous symptoms, like you're overdosing on drugs or you're having suicidal ideation, then you have a medical problem and you need medical care.

00:32:08.000 Not psychological, medical.

00:32:10.000 Psychological services may be part of it.

00:32:12.000 These are medical conditions with medical management.

00:32:15.000 And that's what I hope to be a part of solving in the future.

00:32:17.000 I love it.

00:32:18.000 Okay.

00:32:18.000 I want to just, we have the website, twc.health slash Charlie.

00:32:22.000 That's if they want to check that out.

00:32:24.000 So can you please elaborate on this?

00:32:26.000 The opioid thing.

00:32:27.000 The opioid thing.

00:32:28.000 I think it's super anti-I lived through that.

00:32:30.000 Please go through it.

00:32:31.000 Okay.

00:32:32.000 Here's how, here's how it worked.

00:32:33.000 And this, and you see if you can name the players that were reflected in COVID that did the same thing.

00:32:39.000 First of all, you needed a philosophy, a philosophy that developed in a discipline.

00:32:45.000 In the case, what happened was there was an opioid epidemic in the 1890s and 1900s, and the Harrison Narcotic Act addressed that and physicians were put in jail.

00:32:55.000 They say as many as 10 to 20,000, and that stopped opiate prescribing for 75 years to the point where cancer patients were now surviving in severe pain and we weren't prescribing opiates.

00:33:07.000 Appropriately, a group stepped forward and said, this is ridiculous.

00:33:11.000 We must reestablish opiate use for these pain patients.

00:33:14.000 Then that same group coalesced into something called pain medicine, and they decided there should never be any pain ever experienced by anybody in the United States.

00:33:24.000 That this was a calling, and several physicians in the pain management world became evangelists, not religious evangelists, evangelizing on the topic of no pain.

00:33:38.000 Then pain became the fifth vital sign, and the VA adopted that as their policy.

00:33:43.000 And the Joint Commission on Hospital Accreditation, the regulators stepped in because of this discipline.

00:33:49.000 And by the way, academia was completely captured by it.

00:33:52.000 Sound familiar so far?

00:33:54.000 Think of who the evangelists were for, lockdown.

00:33:57.000 And they captured academia, then captured the regulators, and then you were forced as physicians to fall in line.

00:34:05.000 Now, people like me fought like crazy against it.

00:34:08.000 And let me tell you, they were killing my patients hand over fist.

00:34:12.000 I was sanctioned by the Joint Commission, by the Department of Mental Health, by the California Medical Association for what?

00:34:18.000 For allowing my heroin addicts in withdrawal to be a little uncomfortable.

00:34:24.000 They were trying to demand, I give them, get this, opiates.

00:34:28.000 Heroin addicts in withdrawal in their treatment center demand that they get opiates because their happy face scale, when their fifth vital sign was assessed, was a little unhappy.

00:34:40.000 It was, this is mind-boggling, and we will look at it with the same incredulity that we looked at Dr. Burke's running around the country evangelizing for lockdown, regulators capturing lockdown, and then the excesses of the regulators closing the beaches, closing the outdoor areas, closing the skate ramps.

00:35:01.000 This is an insanity that captured us.

00:35:04.000 And as I explained earlier, of course, had negative consequences on our mental health.

00:35:09.000 I am not saying, and by the way, don't accuse me of accepting it.

00:35:12.000 It's always never what I say as people say I'm thinking.

00:35:16.000 I'm not saying lockdown should never have happened.

00:35:18.000 I'm saying the evangelizing and the excesses should never have happened.

00:35:23.000 And the lack of risk reward analysis in all aspects of this pandemic as policies were stepped forward and the disempowerment of the physician and the patient.

00:35:33.000 That was not even a consideration.

00:35:35.000 What your doctor said didn't matter.

00:35:38.000 It was what we say, thus saith the Lord, safety uber alis, and we know what's best for you.

00:35:44.000 And untoward harm, look, whenever social evil is done, it's always in the name of good.

00:35:50.000 Watch out, people.

00:35:51.000 Study your history.

00:35:53.000 To play that out, though, Dr. Drew, I guess the only good of the opioid mania is that there have been reforms.

00:36:02.000 You know, for example, a relative.

00:36:05.000 Yeah, you know where I'm going with this.

00:36:08.000 Well, there are reforms, but even that has excesses now.

00:36:12.000 No, and unfortunately, I couldn't get an opioid for a family member who needed it.

00:36:16.000 And they give you one pill at a time.

00:36:18.000 That's right.

00:36:18.000 And I got to go back to the pharmacist and I got to fill out nine forms and I can't pick it up.

00:36:22.000 She does and she can't leave the house.

00:36:24.000 Anyway, please, the reform is that this it's disgusting.

00:36:27.000 It's again, whenever the regulators get involved in medicine, this is why I'm with the wellness company.

00:36:33.000 Whenever the regulators get involved, the excesses hurt patients.

00:36:37.000 Let doctors practice medicine for God's sake.

00:36:42.000 Let them do their job.

00:36:44.000 We are the only ones that actually always have the best interests of the patient in mind.

00:36:49.000 And if we are so poor at our job that we need that kind of regulation, send us back for more training.

00:36:55.000 I always said that.

00:36:56.000 I loved my training.

00:36:57.000 I'm going to take more training.

00:36:58.000 Fine.

00:36:58.000 Send me back.

00:37:00.000 But for you idiots with your box checking, you know, to just sit in judgment in a cubicle in Chicago while I'm in Southern California, that is terrible and disgusting. 1.00

00:37:13.000 And so, yes, the excesses now are deeply concerning to me as well. 1.00

00:37:16.000 There's some bureaucrat at the AMA who's never actually had to.

00:37:20.000 The AMA has so little to do with medicine.

00:37:22.000 Listen, the FDA, I taught medicine for many years.

00:37:25.000 Never once did I say, what does the FDA think about this?

00:37:27.000 Ever.

00:37:28.000 The FDA determines the standards for the companies to bring their products to market.

00:37:33.000 What we do with them is entirely up to us.

00:37:36.000 The AMA is a lobby group that does certain things in Washington.

00:37:41.000 Really, most doctors don't belong anymore because they're not effective.

00:37:44.000 They don't really represent us.

00:37:46.000 That's it.

00:37:46.000 Those are those two agencies that people put it as somehow affecting medicine.

00:37:50.000 No, they're not involved with medicine.

00:37:52.000 They shouldn't be involved with medicine.

00:37:54.000 The medicine is our professional societies.

00:37:57.000 I'm with the Board of Internal Medicine, the Board of Addiction Medicine, surgeons with the American College of Physicians, the American College of Surgeons.

00:38:05.000 These set our professional standards.

00:38:07.000 These are the people for whom our standards are maintained.

00:38:10.000 Nobody even knows those exist because it's too boring, frankly.

00:38:15.000 We watch each other very carefully.

00:38:16.000 Yeah, the American Medical Association has been totally captured.

00:38:20.000 I mean, it is remote and it's distant from the actual frontline doctors that are doing the good work. 0.64

00:38:29.000 The world is in flames and biotinomics is a complete and total disaster, but it can't and won't ruin my day.

00:38:35.000 Why?

00:38:36.000 Because I start my day with a hot America first cup of blackout coffee.

00:38:40.000 It's 100% America and 0% Grift.

00:38:43.000 Blackout Coffee is 100% committed to conservative values, from sourcing the beans to the roasting process, customer support and shipping.

00:38:50.000 They embody true American values and accept no compromise on taste or quality.

00:38:54.000 Look, you got to check out right now, blackoutcoffee.com slash Charlie or use coupon code Charlie for 20% off your first order.

00:39:00.000 That is blackoutcoffee.com slash Charlie.

00:39:03.000 Be awake, not woke.

00:39:04.000 That's blackoutcoffee.com slash Charlie.

00:39:06.000 Check it out, promo code Charlie.

00:39:10.000 So, Dr. Drew, I guess to finish that comparison, though, public opinion has moved against the opioid manufacturers.

00:39:19.000 They want the families associated to be held accountable.

00:39:22.000 Will we see similar sort of yearning for justice for the, let's just call them the COVID schemers?

00:39:30.000 I think that is there as we speak.

00:39:33.000 People are, or some people are anyway, but it's so complicated.

00:39:39.000 This one was really rough.

00:39:41.000 And I'm actually bothered by how much the drug companies were held accountable for the opioid crisis as though they were the only perpetrators and bad players.

00:39:52.000 As you've said about COVID, I don't see any apologies from the Joint Commission or the VA for making pain the fifth vital sign and just stepping up and go, that was an insanity.

00:40:02.000 Your pulse is not as important as your pain assessment. 0.99

00:40:05.000 That is freaking ridiculous. 0.98

00:40:08.000 And we apologize for that. 0.97

00:40:10.000 Never.

00:40:10.000 By the same token, pain management continues on in its excesses.

00:40:15.000 You know, I had a thing, Charlie.

00:40:17.000 I went to the White House for an opioid symposium.

00:40:22.000 It was in the Trump administration.

00:40:23.000 It was in the East Room and cabinet-level officials were there.

00:40:26.000 It was amazing.

00:40:27.000 It was really, it was, and people were trying, how are we going to solve this problem?

00:40:30.000 And people don't know what happened that day.

00:40:33.000 That day, the prescribing pandemic stopped because not of anyone in that room except Jeff Sessions.

00:40:40.000 Jeff Sessions came in and said, you know, I see what's going on here.

00:40:43.000 I know how to stop this kind of thing.

00:40:44.000 You watch me.

00:40:45.000 In four months, this thing is going to be over.

00:40:47.000 And what did he do?

00:40:48.000 He put a half dozen physicians in prison and it stopped.

00:40:52.000 That was the end of it.

00:40:53.000 Was that the right thing to stop it?

00:40:55.000 Well, in the eyes of the law, it was because these people were not prescribed.

00:41:00.000 I was saying that as far as sending a message that we're going to go after the rank and file as much.

00:41:07.000 The reason, the main reason the opioid thing got going in the first place was they fined physicians outside of malpractice civilly and criminally for under-prescribing of pain medicine.

00:41:20.000 That was happening in North Carolina, Florida, and California.

00:41:23.000 And that was in the 90s.

00:41:25.000 And that was when all of us froze.

00:41:27.000 We stopped prescribing opiates.

00:41:29.000 We didn't know what to do.

00:41:30.000 And so we sent everybody to the pain management world.

00:41:34.000 And that's how physician behavior changes.

00:41:37.000 That was a Harrison narcotic guy.

00:41:38.000 They put 10,000 in prison.

00:41:40.000 Boom, for 50 years, we didn't prescribe another opiate or very rarely.

00:41:44.000 And so it does.

00:41:46.000 When doctors get into excessive behavior, are not doing their job properly.

00:41:49.000 Yeah, legal consequences changes the entirety of the profession.

00:41:53.000 Jeff Sessions was right.

00:41:54.000 But of course, now it's become excessively the other direction, but not because of that.

00:41:59.000 It's because of the regulators getting in the way.

00:42:02.000 And the DEA of all people has gotten way over their skis in terms of helping us or hurting us from being able to treat people in suffering.

00:42:09.000 So one thing you learn as a physician, you go in, one of the things you go into is reduce suffering.

00:42:14.000 And opiates reduce suffering.

00:42:15.000 They do.

00:42:16.000 And, you know, and chronic pain is a very special situation.

00:42:20.000 There's evidence that buprenorphine, subiatex, suboxone works very well in chronic pain.

00:42:24.000 And yet they're regulating that too.

00:42:26.000 We should be using that liberally.

00:42:27.000 So, Dr. Drew, I want to finish with this topic that is applicable to our younger listeners and younger audience. 0.56

00:42:33.000 It is a fact that Gen Z millennials are the most suicidal, alcohol-addicted, drug-addicted, hopeless, miserable, porn addicted. 0.52

00:42:41.000 I could continue generation in history. 0.99

00:42:44.000 I know this is a massive question that warrants an entire hour.

00:42:48.000 Why is that the case?

00:42:50.000 And what needs to be, what can be done societally, culturally, and politically to at least make some progress with these awful metrics?

00:42:59.000 You know, I have trouble being happy myself when the next generation, which is the millennial generation, is suffering so much.

00:43:08.000 It really bothers me more than anything.

00:43:10.000 In fact, I like visiting certain parts of the country where I see millennials out and doing things and working and starting businesses.

00:43:16.000 Like I noticed in southern Florida and Tennessee, I can fill my lungs with air when I see them enjoying their lives, which is exactly what they should be doing.

00:43:27.000 Number one, fun has been eliminated from their lives.

00:43:32.000 We got to encourage them to have fun, and we have to help them understand that things are not as bleak as the press and their academic settings have led them to believe that we are still that country where there is opportunity, there is dynamism.

00:43:48.000 I know plenty of millennials that are doing extraordinarily well, but you got to go do it and you have to start somewhere.

00:43:56.000 They feel, look, I think even in their sort of it really, I think, may have started in their interpersonal life.

00:44:01.000 I've not really said this out loud, but I'm beginning to think that, you know, I noticed when they were in college, that age group, they were so beaten down by being told they were toxic.

00:44:13.000 The men were beaten down and told there was something wrong with them that they became fearful of interacting with female peers.

00:44:21.000 They didn't know how to.

00:44:22.000 They didn't want to be seen that way.

00:44:23.000 They certainly wouldn't do it with a beer in their hand.

00:44:26.000 And they lost the opportunity for some of the usual milestones for the development of the skill to date and learn people and have fun with people and enjoy your time together and not be.

00:44:37.000 I read something on BuzzFeed today where it was listing these word complaints doesn't quite capture it.

00:44:45.000 These experiences of young men and how depressed they are about their ability just to go out and interact with people they'd like to interact with.

00:44:53.000 And I think it kind of starts there.

00:44:54.000 I think that's really where we got to get them back into having fun, being okay, dating, hanging out, making out, whatever it is.

00:45:04.000 Be careful, ask for consent.

00:45:05.000 I understand things are different.

00:45:06.000 That's good.

00:45:07.000 It's a good thing.

00:45:08.000 But to be so fearful that you're alone with your pornography is so destructive.

00:45:12.000 And then COVID put a final nail in that coffin.

00:45:15.000 We have to get them back out and then we have to get them engaged.

00:45:18.000 We have to help them find a passion and get back engaged with it.

00:45:22.000 They have been beaten down by academia.

00:45:23.000 They've been beaten down by their social circumstances.

00:45:26.000 They've been beaten down by the economy.

00:45:27.000 And they've been told that the American dream is over.

00:45:30.000 And we have to switch.

00:45:32.000 We have to literally market to them a different way of looking at life and maybe elevate their peers that are enjoying themselves and are doing well and tell them those stories and use that to inspire them.

00:45:42.000 This is kind of a superficial way of looking at this, but I don't know.

00:45:45.000 There might be something in it.

00:45:46.000 No, I agree with all of that.

00:45:48.000 There's a massive existential despair that is occurring in the West that is profound and is wide-ranging.

00:45:57.000 Unfortunately, so, doctor, I'm going to ask you to generalize. 0.97

00:46:00.000 Unfortunately, then the solution is a lot of SSRIs or no.

00:46:07.000 Okay.

00:46:07.000 I hope not.

00:46:08.000 I hope not.

00:46:09.000 Like I said, or ordinary misery is a good thing.

00:46:12.000 And maybe this generation will have huge upside in terms of struggling with these issues.

00:46:19.000 And by the way, if I were coming out of something like what a millennial is probably experiencing, I'd be pissed.

00:46:25.000 I'd be furious.

00:46:26.000 You led me to believe this was not a possibility.

00:46:28.000 You treated me in a certain way.

00:46:30.000 They should be furious.

00:46:31.000 I would love to see them get angry.

00:46:33.000 You told me I couldn't come out from under my bed for two years. 0.99

00:46:36.000 That's disgusting. 0.94

00:46:38.000 They should be furious about that.

00:46:39.000 And I hope they are inspired by that anger and sort of get back engaged in things.

00:46:44.000 And yes, there are spiritual problems they have to deal with.

00:46:47.000 Yes, substances are a major problem.

00:46:49.000 They need to contend with that.

00:46:50.000 The microdosing is not going to be your answer.

00:46:55.000 Engagement is the answer, not a chemical.

00:46:58.000 And I hope that we can reduce some of the use of SSRIs and things.

00:47:01.000 Again, if you're having trouble functioning, there's going to be more mental health stuff that does require some real medical intervention, but let's do it on a limited basis.

00:47:08.000 And let's get people a spiritual life, an interpersonal life.

00:47:13.000 What did Freud say back to him?

00:47:14.000 Love play, love work and play.

00:47:18.000 Love work and play.

00:47:19.000 Let's get back to the basics and address the medical problems where they may occur.

00:47:25.000 I mean, they're real, but find ways.

00:47:27.000 We are under, we're understaffed in terms of available psychiatrists.

00:47:31.000 We don't have psychiatric beds for people that really need it.

00:47:33.000 It's like they're in the streets.

00:47:34.000 It's a whole other topic.

00:47:36.000 We can another hour for us to talk about, but that's not really what we're talking about. 0.94

00:47:39.000 We're talking about the millennials and getting them back.

00:47:42.000 Excellent job. 1.00

00:47:43.000 Dr. Drew, thank you so much.

00:47:44.000 Check out his Rumble channel.

00:47:45.000 Thank you.

00:47:46.000 You bet.

00:47:49.000 Thanks so much for listening.

00:47:50.000 Everybody, email us as always freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:47:53.000 Thanks so much for listening and God bless.

00:47:57.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk dot com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - March 05, 2024

Dr. Drew Post Pandemic: What He's Learned about Covid, Cannabis, and Pain

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