The Charlie Kirk Show - Drugs, Demons, and Democrats with Mike Cernovich

00:00:00.000 Okay, everybody, today the Charlie Kirk show, Drugs, Demons, and Democrats, a conversation with Mike Cernovich.

00:00:05.000 We talk about Democrats and the chance of the midterms coming in November.

00:00:08.000 And we also talk about Mike Cernovich's encounter with Ayahuasca, which is a psychedelic.

00:00:14.000 I am by no means endorsing this.

00:00:17.000 In fact, I oppose it.

00:00:18.000 Ayahuasca is the closest thing to what the Bible would call to be pharmakia.

00:00:22.000 However, Mike's own telling of it is worth listening to because it actually has strengthened his belief in Christianity and validates the teachings of the Bible.

00:00:31.000 And if any of you are having questions of faith, listen to this.

00:00:35.000 There is a spiritual dimension.

00:00:37.000 So again, I just want to reinforce this.

00:00:39.000 I am not endorsing ayahuasca.

00:00:41.000 In fact, I think it's really bad for people to do.

00:00:43.000 It can mess you up.

00:00:45.000 It's because I know I would get a flood of emails from you guys if I did not properly do that.

00:00:49.000 Email me, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:00:51.000 Subscribe to our podcast and get involved with Turning Point USA and come to our student action summit at tpusa.com slash SAS.

00:00:59.000 That is tpusa.com slash SAS.

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00:01:06.000 And at our Turning Point USA event, Kaylee McEnany, Ted Cruz, Laura Ingram, Josh Hawley, Greg Gutfeld, Donald Trump Jr., Kim Guilfoyle, Kat Tim, Pete Hegseth, Byron Donalds, Ben Carson, Rick Scott, Lauren Boebert, Governor Kevin Stitt, Kat Kamack, Matt Gates, Jack Basobic, Benny Johnson, Dave Rubin, Sean Foyt, Pastor Mark Burns, Pastor David Engelhart, and Pastor Samuel Duth.

00:01:26.000 Wow.

00:01:28.000 Tpusa.com.

00:01:30.000 Slash s a s. 1.00

00:01:33.000 You can always email me your thoughts, as always.

00:01:34.000 Freedom at Charliekirk.com.

00:01:36.000 That is freedom at Charliekirk.com.

00:01:40.000 Buckle up, everybody.

00:01:42.000 Here we go.

00:01:43.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:01:44.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

00:01:47.000 We are lucky to have Charlie Kirk Charlie Kirk's running the White House.

00:01:47.000 I want you to know.

00:01:52.000 Folks, I want to thank Charlie.

00:01:54.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:01:55.000 His spirit, his love of this country.

00:01:57.000 He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created.

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00:02:24.000 What time is it?

00:02:26.000 In the conservative movement, I believe that is the most operative question we can ask, what time is it to help me unpack?

00:02:33.000 This is a very wise man, someone i've known for quite a while and I check his twitter feed often for how he is analyzing things.

00:02:41.000 Mike Cernovich.

00:02:42.000 Mike, welcome to the Charlie Kirk show.

00:02:44.000 My pleasure, man.

00:02:45.000 How are you good?

00:02:46.000 It's been a while.

00:02:47.000 So let me ask the question, what time is it and how should we?

00:02:52.000 How should, how should we respond to our leaders unable to answer that question?

00:02:58.000 Well, I mean, what time it is is the surprise.

00:03:02.000 You know, Ben Shapiro did a thing with Jeremy Boring Uh, with their at their UM event the other night where they said nobody thought Roe Versus Wade would ever be overturned.

00:03:10.000 I would have bet Anything, anything that it never would have been overturned.

00:03:15.000 And I don't mean that in a negative way, just predictively.

00:03:18.000 Nobody ever thought this would happen.

00:03:20.000 I went to law school 20 years ago.

00:03:21.000 The idea that Roe versus Wade was going to be overturned was always a pipe dream.

00:03:26.000 So I think when you think about these things, you always want to think about the spiritual lesson more so than the current event.

00:03:33.000 You always want to contextualize it.

00:03:35.000 And it just shows the power of people never giving up, right?

00:03:40.000 That really is the lesson that I took from this is, because if you'd asked me, hey, lead the charge against Roe versus Wade, I would say, well, I've, that's just not going to happen.

00:03:48.000 I got other things to do with my day.

00:03:50.000 It's just not going to happen.

00:03:51.000 No offense.

00:03:52.000 You know, all love for you, but just it is what it is.

00:03:56.000 And that's why you just, you can just never give up when you have the left certainly not giving up.

00:04:01.000 But I think that's the lesson here is you have to keep the pressure on people.

00:04:05.000 You have to be unrelenting.

00:04:07.000 You have to keep demanding that the judges, you know, the judicial appointments matter.

00:04:12.000 So that really is a lesson that you can't ever give up on anything in life.

00:04:16.000 Not that we didn't know this, but even I consider myself a relatively smart guy.

00:04:20.000 And I didn't think this would ever happen, this day would ever happen.

00:04:23.000 So score one for the people who never quit and kept doing the March for Lives every year, kept hounding their senators and Congress members to vote for the right people and to make sure this happened.

00:04:35.000 And it was a relentless campaign over many decades and a spiritual one as well.

00:04:40.000 So Mike, what do you have to say to some Republicans that are still kind of very focused on, let's just say, non-controversial issues, corporate taxes, regulatory reform?

00:04:50.000 Isn't a lesson post-Roe versus Wade being overturned?

00:04:53.000 Now's the time for us to think big, to go for the impossible.

00:04:58.000 I mean, the conventional orthodoxy is that you're right.

00:05:00.000 No one thought this was possible.

00:05:02.000 We've talked about that over the last, you know, over the last week in particular.

00:05:06.000 So where do we go from here?

00:05:08.000 What is the, what should the ethos of the conservative movement be then?

00:05:12.000 Well, the big movement here culturally is that the Christians within the conservative movement were always looked down upon by, you know, real Republicans.

00:05:22.000 They never really liked the Christians. 1.00

00:05:23.000 They tolerated them to win.

00:05:25.000 And Josh Holly had a profound observation because he understands this.

00:05:29.000 He's lived in both worlds, right?

00:05:30.000 He's gone to elite law schools.

00:05:32.000 He was, I believe, a Supreme Court clerk.

00:05:34.000 He's traveled in both of those worlds, right?

00:05:36.000 And he realized how looked down upon Christians are amongst all of these big business chamber of commerce, so-called conservatives.

00:05:46.000 So the lesson here is that the real Christians don't need the Chamber of Commerce people, right? 0.96

00:05:51.000 You have to make an adjustment now of who has the power.

00:05:56.000 And I say that not as a negative way to abuse power, but you have to look at who actually matters and who doesn't.

00:06:02.000 And these people who think that elections are about whether or not the marginal tax rate is going to be 18% or 15%, you're along to the ride with these other people.

00:06:13.000 You're not the ones dictating the agenda anymore.

00:06:15.000 So I think what you have to do here is you have to press the advantage hard and you have to remind these people: look, we did all this without you.

00:06:22.000 We all remember the 2016 election and the betrayal.

00:06:26.000 You were a big part of that.

00:06:27.000 Cernovich doesn't get the, I mean, you get the credit for me, but you were one of the top people online that really exposed Hillary.

00:06:33.000 Sorry, go ahead.

00:06:35.000 Well, thank you.

00:06:35.000 Yeah.

00:06:36.000 And that's still, that's the lesson here is you have to remind people now by you, I mean, people like you who are still in the game.

00:06:42.000 I'm not really, I'm, you know, focused on other things in my life right now.

00:06:45.000 I don't consider myself much of a relevant player, if at all, but folks like you and the kind of people who watch these shows, you have to go say, look, look, look, we're not the orphan here, the stepchild who's being abused by you anymore.

00:07:01.000 You're kind of on the ride with us.

00:07:02.000 You kind of have to do what we want to do.

00:07:04.000 And if you want your legislation to go forward, then here's what you have to do for us.

00:07:08.000 And that really has to be pressed and emphasized.

00:07:11.000 So I'm shifting gears a little bit.

00:07:13.000 So the Ghelaine Maxwell and Epstein case kind of has finally come to a close.

00:07:19.000 She gets 20 years in prison or something like that when R. Kelly gets 30 years in prison. 1.00

00:07:24.000 You've covered that entire, I don't want to call it industry, but that dark underbelly of humanity.

00:07:31.000 What's your reaction to the case?

00:07:33.000 What do you think was missing from it?

00:07:34.000 Help us fill in the pieces here.

00:07:37.000 Yeah, well, what's missing is that any lawyer will tell you this.

00:07:41.000 In any kind of case like this, Ghelane Maxwell would have got five years and she would have given up names, right? 1.00

00:07:47.000 The way that these cases ordinarily work is you have someone like her and you say, okay, you can expose 50 people, 100 people, a large number of people.

00:07:56.000 We'll give you five years, maybe give you witness protection.

00:07:59.000 That's the way it should have been done, right?

00:08:00.000 So think about it like this.

00:08:01.000 Sammy the Bull Gravano was put in witness protection program for his testimony in exchange to bring down John Gotti and other members of the mob.

00:08:11.000 Sammy the Bull had killed dozens of people.

00:08:13.000 Nobody knows for sure, but it was a large number of people.

00:08:15.000 So the government will take an actual murderer, someone who's murdered tens, hundreds of people, and say, look, we'll put you in witness protection, but you have to give up the names of everybody higher up in the food chain.

00:08:27.000 So that didn't happen with this case.

00:08:29.000 This case was a farce from day one.

00:08:31.000 It was a mop-up operation from day one, just the way Epstein was arrested and they didn't raid every property.

00:08:38.000 Remember that?

00:08:39.000 They only raided one property in New York, his New Mexico place.

00:08:43.000 That wasn't done until weeks later.

00:08:45.000 The St. James Island, that wasn't done until weeks later.

00:08:48.000 The Florida property wasn't done until weeks later until people could have gone there and gotten rid of any kind of incriminating evidence.

00:08:54.000 So this is a fundamental case of look for what didn't happen.

00:08:58.000 Look for the dog not barking.

00:09:00.000 And what didn't happen is Ghelaine should have been put in witness protection.

00:09:03.000 She should have given up all the names, and I'm sure she would have.

00:09:06.000 But after Epstein, of course, committed suicide, that wasn't really an option for her.

00:09:11.000 She saw what was going to happen.

00:09:12.000 And you would put her in witness protection.

00:09:14.000 You'd take down these powerful people.

00:09:16.000 Bill Clinton maybe would be up there.

00:09:19.000 And it didn't happen.

00:09:21.000 So that tells you it was a mop-up operation from the highest levels of the Department of Justice of the FBI.

00:09:26.000 It's frankly demoralizing and disgraceful.

00:09:29.000 How widespread is your speculation that that went?

00:09:33.000 I mean, we won't know for sure.

00:09:34.000 And answer me this question. 0.74

00:09:36.000 Why is it that the women that did the press conference afterwards, they said, this is not justice, she should die in prison. 1.00

00:09:41.000 Did anyone, and I'm not that in the weeds in this, did anyone ask those women who else was on the island?

00:09:46.000 I mean, that's a question that I haven't really seen flushed out.

00:09:50.000 Yeah, but there was deposition testimony where Virginia Roberts had said Bill Clinton had been to the island multiple times, and that came out.

00:09:56.000 Bill Clinton still gave a speech at the DNC.

00:09:59.000 I mean, my God, you get canceled for tweets these days.

00:10:01.000 But if you're in sworn testimony is being identified as a guest of Epstein's island, then you can go speak at the DNC the very next week and nothing really is going to happen.

00:10:11.000 So that I think Daryl, I mean, if I were them, would I be afraid?

00:10:16.000 I would.

00:10:16.000 Right.

00:10:18.000 Remember, killing Epstein or Epstein's suicide, depending. 0.82

00:10:21.000 We're on Rumble, so I guess we can. 0.94

00:10:23.000 You can do whatever you want.

00:10:24.000 We can talk with Kender here.

00:10:25.000 So killing Epstein wasn't about silencing Epstein. 0.99

00:10:29.000 It was saying, look, we can go into jail and kill him. 1.00

00:10:33.000 So you're going to run your mouth. 1.00

00:10:35.000 You're going to open your mouth up too much.

00:10:37.000 Just take this money.

00:10:38.000 We'll have this pool of money from the Epstein estate.

00:10:41.000 Nobody, by the way, found out how he made his money, how he had $500 million.

00:10:45.000 Nobody knows who is his broker, all these things.

00:10:49.000 There's a paper trail for everything.

00:10:51.000 And right?

00:10:52.000 You can't buy and sell a stock without there being a paper trail.

00:10:55.000 So who is his prime broker?

00:10:57.000 Who was loaning him money?

00:10:59.000 Who is his market maker?

00:11:01.000 Right?

00:11:02.000 Nope, nope, no, no evidence there.

00:11:04.000 Nobody wants to know, but Steve Bannon, you know, they come after him because of a we build the wall thing in the SDNY, which nobody in New York was donating to that anyway.

00:11:13.000 So it's like, so wait a minute, if you're doing events, and Bannon was doing events because I've seen them, he was doing events.

00:11:20.000 And they're like, well, no, but you had a bank account in New York.

00:11:23.000 So therefore, that's jurisdiction for us to go after you for something in El Paso, Texas.

00:11:28.000 But we're not going to, SDNY isn't going to look into Epstein's brokerage's accounts and banks.

00:11:33.000 Or yeah, at a place in downtown Manhattan.

00:11:38.000 Look, inflation is out of control.

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00:12:51.000 So, Mike, something I always appreciate about your commentary is that you're equally critical of the right and the left because you're not really in the game, as you say.

00:12:58.000 But I'm going to ask you to kind of help make sense of something for me that I can't quite understand.

00:13:03.000 What is the Democrat strategy heading into the midterms?

00:13:06.000 Let's just, you know, no bias.

00:13:08.000 What are they thinking?

00:13:09.000 What are their internal strategy sessions?

00:13:11.000 Help me understand this.

00:13:13.000 Well, they're having their own neo-Bolshevik civil war where the purges are happening within the party.

00:13:20.000 That's exactly they're afraid of their own far left flank than they are of winning the elections.

00:13:26.000 And that's a very big mistake that they're making right now is they're allowing themselves to be pulled to the far left and they're looking at really disastrous outcomes for the midterm election.

00:13:37.000 Whereas, because the issues, if you look at it, I'll text you this.

00:13:40.000 It was interesting.

00:13:41.000 There's a guy, I follow a lot of, as you, as you know, wide variety accounts.

00:13:45.000 I follow a lot of just what I call like normie, politically adjacent people, because I think that's the best way to get your finger on the pulse.

00:13:52.000 Is okay, here's a guy who 90% of his stuff isn't political, and then occasionally a political thing will come up.

00:13:58.000 And he did a poll saying, you know, what issue matters most to you right now?

00:14:02.000 And he listed guns, abortion, inflation, and gas prices.

00:14:06.000 And, you know, inflation and gas prices were the number two things.

00:14:10.000 Now, for us, we're like, well, that's obvious, but we don't ever want to suffer from confirmation bias, right?

00:14:15.000 We don't want to just think, well, you know, Mike Cernovitch says that this matters most of all.

00:14:19.000 Well, sure, but I could be up my own in my own silo, right?

00:14:23.000 We always want to see what people are, take the temperature of other people.

00:14:26.000 And it should be nothing but inflation should be talked about.

00:14:30.000 It should be nothing but gas prices should be talked about if you're a Democrat. 0.95

00:14:33.000 But they can't do that because their far left is in a full revolt over, you know, Roe versus Wade.

00:14:40.000 The protests were actually totally subdued.

00:14:42.000 Everything that we were told was going to happen didn't really happen.

00:14:45.000 There was Antifa got to play.

00:14:47.000 They use every protest as an opportunity to commit crimes, but these protests were mild.

00:14:52.000 They're pretty much over at this point.

00:14:55.000 So if I were advising Democrats, they wouldn't listen to me. 0.99

00:14:59.000 I would say you people are being destroyed by your feral far left-wing lunatics. 0.97

00:15:04.000 And that's a huge mistake going into the midterm elections.

00:15:07.000 And they're even trying to, you know, CNN is trying to badger Senema and Manchin to do in the filibuster, thinking, wait, so you want to abolish the filibuster right before the most consequential midterm election since 2010 when Republicans are about to take control.

00:15:24.000 Didn't you learn anything from Harry Reid abolishing the filibuster?

00:15:29.000 What are you people doing, right?

00:15:31.000 So that's where I'm looking at it is right.

00:15:33.000 Remember, Napoleon, when the enemy's making a mistake, don't interrupt them.

00:15:37.000 So I'm very much just, you guys keep making your mistakes.

00:15:41.000 I'm going to watch it.

00:15:42.000 I think this is foolhardy what you're doing, but it's not my job to help Democrats.

00:15:46.000 Yeah, I think that's smart.

00:15:47.000 Do you think there's anything to the point where the seat of the equivalent benefit for them will be they can now have a reason and excuse to get rid of Biden to put him out to pasture?

00:15:56.000 Right.

00:15:57.000 It doesn't seem like anyone is attaching to Biden right now.

00:16:00.000 Seems like Gavin Newsom is more likely to be the nominee, in my own personal opinion, than Joe Biden.

00:16:06.000 What's your thoughts on that?

00:16:08.000 Yeah, I don't think anybody thought he'd be around in 2024.

00:16:12.000 The no cards, for example, it's been elder abuse.

00:16:16.000 That's what I've called it since almost the first year of his presidency.

00:16:19.000 If you look at that note card, I thought it was fake.

00:16:21.000 I thought it was a meme.

00:16:22.000 You here, you here.

00:16:24.000 Well, they're doing that to humiliate him and making sure that people are getting pictures of those cards, right?

00:16:28.000 They're setting him up for failure.

00:16:30.000 And they have been.

00:16:31.000 They set up Camela for failure right away.

00:16:33.000 Pesobic had done great reporting on that, where getting the inside scoop of how they're giving her the impossible challenges.

00:16:39.000 Oh, go to the border, Camela.

00:16:41.000 Go to the border and solve that problem.

00:16:43.000 Good job in giving her all the terrible things.

00:16:46.000 And they're setting Biden up too.

00:16:47.000 It'll be Newsome in 2024.

00:16:48.000 I think that's no, nobody's going to beat Newsom.

00:16:51.000 He survived a recall.

00:16:53.000 He's got charisma.

00:16:54.000 He's good looking.

00:16:55.000 He goes for, he's got everything Democrats want, which is no substance, but he's good looking and charming.

00:17:00.000 So we're going to vote for him.

00:17:01.000 And he can raise a ton of money.

00:17:03.000 Yeah.

00:17:03.000 Ton of money.

00:17:04.000 He's a radical far-left-wing activist.

00:17:06.000 He's in with Pelosi.

00:17:08.000 So for me, my biggest fear right now, and I think it's shared by a lot of people, is here's what Republicans, here's what the Republican leadership is going to say.

00:17:18.000 They're going to say, Cernovich, you know, here you are telling us that the Democrats need to focus on inflation and the Democrats need to focus on gas prices.

00:17:27.000 So then when we take the majority, how come you're going to tell us to investigate Garland for terrorizing people?

00:17:33.000 How come you're going to tell us to reform the FBI?

00:17:35.000 Is it your whole message here?

00:17:37.000 The Democrats need to focus on economic issues.

00:17:40.000 And my response, because I always think about what are people going to argue, you know, like what would be the strongest argument against my point of view?

00:17:47.000 And my answer to that is: if you don't reform the FBI when you have the opportunity, there's not going to be any 2024 election because they're just going to keep indicting politics.

00:17:58.000 They're going to make everybody terrified to work for Republican.

00:18:01.000 Look what they're doing to lawyers, Jeffrey Clark.

00:18:03.000 So they're just scalping people one by one.

00:18:05.000 So you don't have, you don't have anybody, right?

00:18:09.000 You won't have anybody in 2024.

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00:18:59.000 So, Mike, I don't know how long we want to spend on this, but I'm just curious.

00:19:03.000 And I'm by no means endorsing this.

00:19:05.000 In fact, I have seen some horror stories about it, which is ayahuasca.

00:19:11.000 I might be mispronouncing it, but you did it.

00:19:14.000 You talk favorably about it with your experience.

00:19:17.000 Walk our audience through that.

00:19:19.000 Yeah, and I'm in the same position where I definitely don't endorse it, especially, you know, don't want to seem like I'm encouraging a Christian audience to look into this stuff.

00:19:29.000 But for me, it was, you know, an exploration that began maybe 15 years ago.

00:19:35.000 And the experiences that I've had, and, you know, subject to the caveat that a lot of people will say this is a deceptive experience and that you have to be careful with what you see.

00:19:46.000 And that's where some of the bad stories come from, because you do encounter a lot of both sides, right?

00:19:54.000 Everybody talks about the plus side, but then people don't really talk about the deception that people are opening to it, that they're susceptible to.

00:20:02.000 But for me, it certainly opened up my eyes to true knowledge that there is a spiritual world and we are going to be held into account.

00:20:13.000 And I don't want to proselyte any particular religion, but we're going to be accountable for what we do.

00:20:19.000 And what we do here that could be perfectly legal, could be perfectly ethical within the confines of the American system and American values might not be seen that way on the other end.

00:20:33.000 And we're definitely held to a higher standard, I think, than I ever thought.

00:20:36.000 So it's given me a lot of those realizations and it's given me a lot of just deeper psychological insight into what I really valued, what I was afraid of losing.

00:20:49.000 Things that I thought I was afraid of losing are not necessarily what I was really afraid of losing.

00:20:55.000 So it really forces you to confront yourself and what you've been running from and what you've been hiding from.

00:21:01.000 So just so our audience knows, Ayuasuka is a plant-based psychedelic.

00:21:05.000 That's probably the best way to describe it.

00:21:08.000 It's usually indigenous near the Amazon basin.

00:21:10.000 And just to give the Christian disclaimer, it is what I believe is described in the New Testament as pharmakia.

00:21:16.000 So not endorsing it.

00:21:17.000 But I'm interested, Mike, where did you go to do it?

00:21:20.000 And tell us just kind of intimately of your experience through it, because your conclusion of there being a spiritual dimension, I think, is actually rather fruitful, especially for some of the secular humanists that I'm always fighting against.

00:21:32.000 Yeah, that's what's interesting.

00:21:33.000 And I said the same thing when I talked with Alex about it is a New Testament view would consider it sorcery or pharmakea would consider it a grave sin.

00:21:43.000 And that's why I definitely would not want to lead anyone astray in terms of what they would think.

00:21:48.000 So to be clear, I'm certainly not advocating for other people.

00:21:50.000 I'm just explaining what I've done and what I encountered.

00:21:54.000 And yeah, some people call it a plant medicine.

00:21:57.000 A lot of veterans have begun using it.

00:22:00.000 A lot of people with PTSD, a lot of people who have maybe had alcohol problems, opioids.

00:22:05.000 And there's a whole new school of that opening up where you have ibogaine is what a lot of people, veterans use, especially Navy SEALs.

00:22:13.000 There's a whole program for that.

00:22:14.000 There's nonprofits devoted to that.

00:22:16.000 There are other people have found different plant substances, and it's a really complicated subject spiritually, but the process itself is really quite strange.

00:22:27.000 And I'll try to explain it as best I can.

00:22:29.000 So, you know, you're, in my case, it was in South Africa and you're, you know, you're given like this little cup.

00:22:36.000 It's like, imagine you brew a double shot of espresso and you leave that out for two days and then it bottoms up.

00:22:43.000 It's the most disgusting thing that I've ever drank in my life.

00:22:48.000 And you take the shot and then you just sit there and immediately think, What did I just do?

00:22:53.000 I think this is maybe I just made a huge mistake, but by then it's a little too late.

00:22:59.000 And you're just sitting, you're just sitting there, and then they call it blasting off.

00:23:03.000 The next thing you know, you are in a dimension that one feels more familiar and more real than this world.

00:23:11.000 That's why it's strange when it's called a hallucinogen, because wherever the spirit world is, is where we came from.

00:23:20.000 And the spirit world is more real than this world.

00:23:22.000 This world starts to feel like the hallucination because we're, because the spiritual being, once the soul is roaming free, you realize, okay, we are really a soul and we overemphasize the body maybe too much.

00:23:35.000 We overemphasize this world maybe a little too much.

00:23:37.000 So you feel like a lot of people say, like, you feel like you're home.

00:23:40.000 You feel like you're where you're where it kind of like all began.

00:23:45.000 And then you alternate through different situations.

00:23:48.000 So, for example, I went through an experience where I was, it could be very beautiful for a moment, right?

00:23:55.000 I was in a very beautiful situation where I was looking at something that I thought was important in my life.

00:24:03.000 And then as you're going through this, because again, it feels more real than this world, things start to be taken from you.

00:24:09.000 So, for example, like, you know, I have a podcast or books or whatever the case is, and I think this is really what I value.

00:24:15.000 And then you wake up and you're a new person and you don't have any of those things.

00:24:20.000 And you kind of shrug your shoulder, like, oh, okay, that never really bothered me before.

00:24:23.000 But then you think about, oh man, like my parents are really poor.

00:24:27.000 Like, what was that like?

00:24:28.000 I, you know, I grew up poor and I was really, as a kid, I felt like that was a tough situation for me as a kid.

00:24:33.000 And then I thought about what it was like for my parents to be poor.

00:24:36.000 And I started crying, right?

00:24:38.000 Like, oh my, because your heart's fully open.

00:24:40.000 And I think, wow, all this time I thought it was tough for me being a poor kid growing up, but I had tons of love.

00:24:46.000 My dad didn't smoke.

00:24:48.000 You know, no drinking, no domestic abuse maybe that other people have had in homes where people drank.

00:24:55.000 And I thought, wow, what a, how hard must it have been for my dad to just work in factories to try to support a family and knowing he had all this pressure on him to raise a family?

00:25:06.000 And how is he going to get by?

00:25:08.000 And how great was it that my parents were able to do what they did with what they didn't have?

00:25:12.000 So all this time, I was thinking about me and how I grew up.

00:25:15.000 And then I realized it's like it like rips open your heart and you feel this empathy for everyone who sacrificed for us, right?

00:25:23.000 They gave up for us.

00:25:24.000 So everything you think that was a challenge for you was nothing compared to what your parents went through.

00:25:29.000 So my heart was completely opened in a way to the struggle that other people had.

00:25:35.000 And it happens in such a deeply emotional way that you're just, you just lay there, you're just crying, right?

00:25:42.000 I remember just like crying, like, oh my God, I'm like crying.

00:25:45.000 And it feels good to cry because the heart was opened up because the heart becomes very hardened.

00:25:51.000 Because to live in this world, you have to be a hard person.

00:25:53.000 Or so I thought, right?

00:25:54.000 So a lot of views I had, oh, you know, real men don't cry. 0.99

00:25:58.000 To live in this world, you have to be a hard ass. 0.97

00:26:00.000 You have to, you know, do what you got to do. 0.99

00:26:02.000 You got to be blah, blah, blah, all this stuff.

00:26:05.000 And maybe to maybe to some degree, you do have to live in this world and find a way to make it, but it really is about the heart.

00:26:11.000 It's about the love you have with other people.

00:26:13.000 It's about the human connection that you have.

00:26:15.000 It's about the divine nature.

00:26:17.000 It's about the soul.

00:26:19.000 And I re-shifted a lot of priorities in my life and focused more on the loving aspect and the heart aspect of life.

00:26:28.000 And then I started exploring the religion after that, because before that, I was thinking, oh, come on, man.

00:26:34.000 I just never had the, I went to church growing up, you know, with the home churches.

00:26:38.000 I grew very religious, but I never had that sense, right?

00:26:44.000 Because I think some of us don't, just like you see, you hear.

00:26:46.000 I never had that sense.

00:26:48.000 And that opened my world up to a belief in God and then into other spiritual explorations and finding out that a lot of what's taught or what was taught to me was a very harsh version of Christianity.

00:27:01.000 And that, you know, true Christianity is breathing into the heart. 0.77

00:27:06.000 It's learning to love.

00:27:07.000 It's learning to have more empathy for people.

00:27:09.000 And it maybe isn't necessarily what I thought it was.

00:27:12.000 Yeah, that's that's fascinating.

00:27:13.000 It's well, good description there.

00:27:16.000 And I just want, you know, to reinforce this, that you had a favorable experience and takeaway.

00:27:24.000 I actually think that's the minority.

00:27:26.000 I've met people where it really messed them up, but there is a transformational aspect to it, which is, you know, why the scriptures warn against kind of pharmakea and going into those dimensions.

00:27:35.000 But I do want to ask you, though, Mike, you know, you're in this fight for quite some time, and now you know certain that there is a spiritual dimension, which I completely and totally agree.

00:27:44.000 How do you think that spiritual dimension manifests itself in politics or in culture, if at all?

00:27:49.000 Well, once your eyes have been opened a little bit, or in my case, you know, my eyes have been open a little bit, you see things.

00:27:56.000 You learn the number one thing I learned intellectually is that the timeline the demons are on is not on the timeline that we're on.

00:28:04.000 Demons have your whole life.

00:28:05.000 Because I had a demon, you know, visit me and offered me all this temptation.

00:28:10.000 In the ayahuasca or just generally?

00:28:12.000 On ayahuasca.

00:28:13.000 Yeah.

00:28:14.000 And I was offered all these temptations and I thought, no, I don't want any of this.

00:28:19.000 And I expected the demon to like lash out at me.

00:28:22.000 And the demon said, that's okay.

00:28:26.000 We have your whole life to get you.

00:28:29.000 And that was the most terrifying thing I'd ever heard in my life.

00:28:33.000 I expected to battle demons, wrestle.

00:28:36.000 No, they just said, oh, it's okay.

00:28:38.000 We didn't get you this time.

00:28:39.000 We got your whole life, man.

00:28:41.000 And I thought they are on a different timeline than we are.

00:28:43.000 And then, of course, as I was reading more of the Orthodoxy and the church fathers, they, you know, they say, well, because I was raised in the church where you talked about demons, but not in the way that I found a lot of the Orthodox church fathers talk about, where they say, well, of course, demons, they've lived for tens of thousands of years.

00:29:02.000 And you think you're as smart as a human, but you have nothing compared to them.

00:29:06.000 And then, of course, angels are another story themselves.

00:29:09.000 So for me, I realized that it's a struggle, you know, every day.

00:29:16.000 They're after you every day.

00:29:17.000 I'd read the screw tape letters too, but this hit me in an emotional way.

00:29:21.000 Screw tape letters, I think, is the best way to conceptualize by the way.

00:29:25.000 Phenomenal.

00:29:26.000 By C.S. Lewis.

00:29:27.000 Yeah, that's the best way to intellectualize it, which is, oh, you and your, you know, you and your friends are quibbling about money or quibbling about business or quibbling about ego.

00:29:36.000 Well, a lot of that's just demons whispering things into other people's ears.

00:29:39.000 Well, but Charlie doesn't do enough for you, or this person doesn't do enough for you, Charlie.

00:29:44.000 And you start to buy into that.

00:29:46.000 And that's how they get you.

00:29:47.000 It's not always they come in and terrify you, right?

00:29:50.000 That was the usual view: they come and they scare you, but that won't work for a lot of people because some people think, oh, if you're going to attack me that way, I'm going to fight back.

00:29:58.000 So they do it much more subtly, much more elegantly, and they are on a completely different timeline than we are on.

00:30:04.000 And they have, like, like I said, you know, I have my whole, they have my whole life, your whole life to get you in some way.

00:30:11.000 So you have to be vigilant all the time.

00:30:12.000 And then, of course, politically, that's why they're also on a different thing.

00:30:16.000 They're trying to tear down this country using whatever opportunity they have.

00:30:20.000 Maybe it doesn't work today, but they know, oh, there'll be another George Floyd incident, and then they'll use that to push, and there'll be another incident.

00:30:27.000 They'll use that to push. 0.93

00:30:28.000 They're playing the long game.

00:30:29.000 I want to just reinforce this.

00:30:30.000 I believe we're in a spiritual battle and in a spiritual war that is manifest in the physical.

00:30:35.000 And there's many different ways to go about realizing and recognizing it.

00:30:39.000 But the recognition of that is so incredibly important that this is all just kind of a temporal material reality.

00:30:48.000 And there is a deeper game playing here.

00:30:50.000 There's a deeper existence.

00:30:52.000 And the secular humanists, that, by the way, there are some people on the right that are secular humanists, but they're mostly on the left.

00:30:59.000 They just look at flesh and blood.

00:31:02.000 But our battle is not against flesh and bone or flesh and blood.

00:31:05.000 It's a lot deeper than that.

00:31:06.000 There's a spiritual dimension.

00:31:08.000 And you better believe there's some darkness out there.

00:31:11.000 You could see it cascading over the land.

00:31:13.000 We must bring light to the people.

00:31:15.000 Spiritual dimension manifests itself politically.

00:31:17.000 You could argue the great reset and all this are trying to control.

00:31:21.000 What are the, in your opinion, Mike, what are the kind of characteristics politically that would be probably most embraced by, let's just say, dark, dark spiritual forces?

00:31:35.000 Yeah, the attack on the children is primarily what you learn.

00:31:38.000 You learn this, especially when you, you know, you have children of your own.

00:31:42.000 Like, let's say you're persecuted politically.

00:31:45.000 Jeffrey Clark's being persecuted politically.

00:31:47.000 A number of people are being persecuted politically.

00:31:50.000 You, as an adult, it will be terrible, but you have your faith and you understand and you can conceptualize what's happening.

00:31:56.000 Well, of course, the demons are attacking me.

00:31:59.000 Of course, the demons are attacking Jeffrey Clark.

00:32:01.000 Of course.

00:32:02.000 So it doesn't feel good to be persecuted, or in some cases, Christians will eventually be tortured again, as they were in Roman Coliseum days.

00:32:09.000 But you at least have a way to understand it.

00:32:12.000 Whereas a child, they remain innocent.

00:32:14.000 They don't have knowledge of good and evil.

00:32:15.000 All they know is raw pain and all they know is raw trauma.

00:32:19.000 And that's why, as part of the less religious practices, they want to torment the children, right? 0.98

00:32:25.000 Because tormenting an adult, you don't get as much squeeze, right?

00:32:31.000 You're like, if you torment me, torment you.

00:32:33.000 You can laugh and say, ha, ha, ha, we're getting a little bit out of it.

00:32:36.000 But deep down, they know that that'll make a lot of people turn to faith more.

00:32:40.000 That'll bring more people to understand what's happening in the world.

00:32:43.000 But when they target children, they're targeting someone again without the knowledge of good and evil.

00:32:47.000 And it's pure torture for children.

00:32:50.000 And that's why the religion of the left, and it is religion, is to torment children, to abort babies, to take children who are confused because they're going through puberty.

00:33:00.000 I mean, everybody, I mean, if you think about the less war on children with the gender reassignment stuff, I had really bad acne when I was a teenager.

00:33:08.000 I didn't enjoy being a teenager.

00:33:10.000 I like being an old man.

00:33:11.000 If you say, hey, Mike, you want to go back and be 15?

00:33:13.000 I'll be 15 and go through puberty and have pimples all over my face and be confused about the world.

00:33:20.000 No, are you kidding me?

00:33:21.000 I'm glad to be an old man.

00:33:23.000 I have a sense of self.

00:33:23.000 It's nice.

00:33:24.000 I have a sense of identity.

00:33:26.000 I know that when I'm attacked, there's a reason for the attacks.

00:33:28.000 I'm able to conceptualize what is happening to me and put it within a framework of spirituality and even of a secular mindset work, right?

00:33:38.000 So that's why they target the children because they don't have this kind of framework.

00:33:42.000 So they get pure, the demons get more joy out of tormenting children than out of tormenting adults.

00:33:48.000 So you have behind you Saint Michael, if I'm not mistaken, Michael the archangel.

00:33:53.000 What is your current metaphysical belief structure post encountering the spiritual domain?

00:34:00.000 I would just say that everything that I've read is consistent with the truth of Christianity in terms of the spiritual realm, in terms of explain.

00:34:10.000 And I don't say I'm Christian because then people say, well, you tweeted this thing and I don't want anybody to put me as an example of anything, right?

00:34:17.000 I'm just telling you that if you venture into the spirit world, you will believe in the Bible because you realize it's the best explanation of what's happening on a spiritual dimension. 0.99

00:34:29.000 And then when you actually read the early church fathers, they'll be like, oh, yeah, of course, Cerno, like idiot. 0.98

00:34:34.000 Like we wrote about this stuff. 0.99

00:34:36.000 We wrote about the desert fathers being tempted AD 50.

00:34:40.000 So I've been reading about the desert fathers and a lot of what they've experienced.

00:34:44.000 So I would encourage people to definitely read the early church fathers.

00:34:47.000 It adds a lot of depth.

00:34:49.000 So that's it.

00:34:50.000 So you're not a Christian yet, but you believe in the truth of Christianity from a spiritual perspective.

00:34:56.000 Is that fair to say?

00:34:58.000 Yeah, it's fair to say if I were Christian, it's not something that I would want to put out necessarily because that could lead people because I'm not saying that I live a perfect life and I don't want to you don't have to to be a Christian. 0.53

00:35:09.000 So just yeah, but I don't I don't want to send people on a bad path, right?

00:35:13.000 That's why when we talk about this, we're being so careful in how we say it is.

00:35:16.000 I don't want to cause anyone else to stumble, but the Christian explanation of the world certainly is the one that makes the most sense.

00:35:24.000 Of existence, for sure.

00:35:26.000 That was so interesting.

00:35:27.000 Thank you, Mike.

00:35:27.000 And thanks for your honesty and openness and your candor.

00:35:30.000 That's not easy to talk about, but I certainly learned a lot and awesome commentary.

00:35:35.000 We went from Democrat midterm strategy to Epstein to ayahuasca to demons.

00:35:41.000 Actually, it all kind of fits.

00:35:42.000 It's all connected, brother.

00:35:43.000 I was going to say, now that I think about it, it's all one topic.

00:35:47.000 Thank you so much, Mike.

00:35:48.000 Awesome as always.

00:35:49.000 Thanks.

00:35:53.000 Thank you so much for listening, everybody.

00:35:54.000 Email me your thoughts as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:35:57.000 Thanks so much for listening.

00:35:58.000 God bless.

00:36:01.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - July 01, 2022

Drugs, Demons, and Democrats with Mike Cernovich

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