The Charlie Kirk Show - Embracing Political Action w- Kirk Cameron and Rob McCoy

00:00:00.000 Thank you for listening to this podcast one production.

00:00:02.000 Now available on Apple Podcasts, Podcast One, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts.

00:00:08.000 Hey, everybody.

00:00:09.000 Today on the Charlie Kirk Show, happy Sunday, by the way.

00:00:12.000 We have Rob McCoy and Kirk Cameron.

00:00:14.000 That name probably should ring a bell.

00:00:15.000 Two great friends of mine.

00:00:17.000 As I do this podcast right now, Pastor Rob McCoy is under incredible attack by the secular atheist left trying to arrest him for his Christian beliefs.

00:00:27.000 Please email us your questions, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:00:30.000 And it's Sunday.

00:00:30.000 So this episode is brought to you advertiser-free for those of you that support us at charliekirk.com slash support.

00:00:37.000 CharlieKirk.com slash support.

00:00:40.000 Kirk Cameron is here on the Charlie Kirk Show.

00:00:43.000 You got three Scottish guys talking about liberty, freedom, and America.

00:00:48.000 You're going to love it.

00:00:49.000 Thank you guys so much for supporting us at charliekirk.com slash support.

00:00:53.000 Buckle up.

00:00:54.000 Here we go.

00:00:55.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:57.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campuses.

00:00:59.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

00:01:02.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:01:06.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:01:07.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:01:08.000 His spirit is love of this country.

00:01:10.000 He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created.

00:01:15.000 Turning point USA.

00:01:16.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

00:01:25.000 That's why we are here.

00:01:27.000 Hey, everybody.

00:01:28.000 Welcome to this special episode of the Charlie Kirk Show.

00:01:30.000 I'm joined by my pastor, Pastor Rob McCoy.

00:01:33.000 First time on the podcast, Rob?

00:01:35.000 No.

00:01:36.000 First time today.

00:01:38.000 And of course, the legendary Kirk Cameron.

00:01:40.000 Oh, whoa.

00:01:42.000 In some universe, maybe legendary, but it's an honor for me.

00:01:46.000 Both of us have Kirk in common.

00:01:48.000 There's not many of us left.

00:01:48.000 I love that.

00:01:50.000 We're a rare breed.

00:01:52.000 And don't forget, Charlie, that Cameron means church in Scottish.

00:01:55.000 It does.

00:01:56.000 You go back.

00:01:58.000 I can trace my family all the way back to 1620 arriving to this country, Alphonse Kirk.

00:02:02.000 Not 1619?

00:02:03.000 No, the year after, actually.

00:02:04.000 So 1620.

00:02:06.000 I think it's cool too because Kirk does mean church.

00:02:08.000 And Cameron.

00:02:09.000 Cameron was a very vicious clan in the highlands of Scotland.

00:02:14.000 All three of us are Scottish.

00:02:15.000 Yeah.

00:02:16.000 Yeah, that's why we actually might fight for something.

00:02:19.000 Can I say one thing?

00:02:20.000 Yeah, of course.

00:02:20.000 You know why God invented Scotch whiskey?

00:02:24.000 Why did God invite and invent Scotch whiskey? 0.80

00:02:27.000 To stop the Scottish from ruling the world. 0.70

00:02:31.000 You know, it's kind of the law of averages, right? 1.00

00:02:34.000 God gave the fighting spirit, but you have to dull it down at some point.

00:02:37.000 That's right.

00:02:38.000 Kirk, your reputation precedes you.

00:02:40.000 You were in growing pains many, many years ago.

00:02:46.000 Yeah.

00:02:47.000 Twice nominated for Golden Globe, right?

00:02:50.000 If I remember correctly?

00:02:51.000 I think so.

00:02:52.000 Don't pay too much attention to some of those things.

00:02:54.000 You have made a ton of movies, grew up watching your movies.

00:02:57.000 Yeah.

00:02:58.000 You're a Christian.

00:03:00.000 There's a lot happening in our country.

00:03:02.000 What's on your heart?

00:03:04.000 Well, Charlie, I'm a dad.

00:03:07.000 I've got six kids.

00:03:09.000 And the conversations that are happening around our dinner table are: is this, are we watching socialism?

00:03:18.000 Or I mean, is this, what they're deleting videos off of the internet?

00:03:22.000 This stuff's important.

00:03:23.000 I'm hearing doctors say things that I want to know about.

00:03:26.000 I'm hearing politicians say things I want to know about.

00:03:29.000 My kids are interested.

00:03:30.000 And my kids are having these crazy ideas that maybe America really is not such a great nation.

00:03:36.000 And my kids coming back and saying, Dad, kids at school are like, they're saying that they're embarrassed to say that they're Americans.

00:03:42.000 They're ashamed of being American.

00:03:43.000 And I'm like, what are you talking about?

00:03:45.000 This is the greatest country in the history of the world.

00:03:47.000 This is the freest, most prosperous, generous nation that's ever existed.

00:03:52.000 This is the culmination of 4,000 years of liberty documents.

00:03:56.000 We go all the way back to, you know, Christ and him bringing liberty and Patrick of Ireland and setting Ireland free and all the way through English common law and all this stuff that I've learned.

00:04:06.000 And they want to, you know, just kind of say, nope, it's all bad.

00:04:10.000 It's all rooted in racism and bigotry and ego.

00:04:14.000 And we should just ditch the whole thing and we should go the way of, you know, Stalin?

00:04:21.000 I mean, that's how I'm perceiving all of this, going, what's going on?

00:04:24.000 So how old are your kids?

00:04:25.000 Six kids?

00:04:27.000 Our kids are 17, 19, 20, 21, 22, and 23.

00:04:34.000 Wow, that's pretty.

00:04:36.000 And they're all of them are listening to you, and the others I'm trying to get to listen to you.

00:04:41.000 Yeah.

00:04:42.000 Well, thank you.

00:04:42.000 That means a lot.

00:04:43.000 I appreciate that.

00:04:44.000 My math might be bad, but I thought you just gave five ages.

00:04:48.000 Yeah, I got six kids.

00:04:49.000 I got six.

00:04:50.000 Well, you know, you know how it is.

00:04:51.000 They're in there somewhere.

00:04:52.000 Yeah, youngest is 17, oldest is 23.

00:04:54.000 There you go.

00:04:55.000 It's all within that window.

00:04:56.000 It was a busy six years.

00:04:57.000 Yeah.

00:04:58.000 Yes.

00:04:58.000 They got a TV.

00:04:59.000 Everything's fine now.

00:05:00.000 Exactly.

00:05:02.000 So, Kirk, you've been in Hollywood.

00:05:05.000 You've been around fame and people recognizing you and all that stuff.

00:05:11.000 And you've become more committed to your faith, obviously, over the years, in despite of all that temptation and all that.

00:05:17.000 Walk us through your story a little bit.

00:05:19.000 And I do want to get back to what you talked about, the deletion of our beautiful country.

00:05:24.000 Walk you through the story of my faith story.

00:05:26.000 Both, yeah.

00:05:27.000 I mean, you have a pretty incredible story.

00:05:28.000 You were part of a very successful network TV show, critically acclaimed.

00:05:35.000 Continue to be a Christian. 0.56

00:05:36.000 Probably some would argue at the cost of some of your career of not getting every major role you can imagine.

00:05:41.000 Just walk us through your story.

00:05:43.000 So I didn't grow up going to church.

00:05:46.000 When I was about 14 years old, my mom took me down to interview with an agent and signed me up.

00:05:52.000 I started doing 409 and McDonald's commercials.

00:05:55.000 And then I got this gig on a show called Growing Pains, which we didn't know if it would go anywhere.

00:06:00.000 Alan Thick was a TV talk show host from Canada.

00:06:03.000 I did a show called Thick of the Night.

00:06:04.000 He played my dad, and the show kind of took off.

00:06:07.000 And we were on for six or seven years.

00:06:09.000 And during that time, there was a really cute girl who played a cheerleader at the high school that Mike Seaver was at.

00:06:17.000 And I wanted to get to know her.

00:06:18.000 And she said, well, why don't you come visit me at my church?

00:06:22.000 So I went there as an atheist and heard a message that really, really captured my attention.

00:06:28.000 It was the message of the gospel.

00:06:31.000 And as an atheist, that didn't mean much to me, but the implications of that message really had me asking a lot of questions.

00:06:38.000 And I got some great answers to those questions.

00:06:41.000 Introduced to guys like Ravi Zacharias and Sean McDowell and read some books like More Than a Carpenter.

00:06:46.000 And I started exploring the Bible and Jesus and his claims and became persuaded that he really did rise from the grave, which was crazy for me to think that that could even happen.

00:07:00.000 But I believed it was true.

00:07:03.000 And as I began to take steps in that direction, I believe God started to change me and change me on the inside.

00:07:12.000 And that began to change decisions I was making on the outside, which ultimately have served me so well.

00:07:18.000 Some would say maybe you didn't get the career that Leonardo DiCaprio, who was also on Growing Pains, got.

00:07:25.000 But you know what I've got?

00:07:26.000 I've got, wait a minute, I've got forgiveness of sin over here.

00:07:32.000 I've also got a wife I've been married to that I love dearly for 30 years, six children, and I've been part of projects that I've been passionate about that combine my values, my sensitivities, my sensibilities, and my passions.

00:07:49.000 And And I'm still doing cool things like a podcast with Charlie Kirk.

00:07:57.000 I get to talk with amazing people and I think, wow, God has been good to me.

00:08:02.000 So let's go back to where you started.

00:08:05.000 That's an amazing testimony.

00:08:07.000 You're father of six.

00:08:09.000 You're seeing your kids be propagandized with all this information.

00:08:13.000 You did a movie once called Monumental.

00:08:15.000 Right.

00:08:16.000 What's that movie about?

00:08:18.000 Well, I made a documentary, not because I wanted to make a political documentary.

00:08:22.000 In fact, growing up, just to give you a bit of background, I don't ever remember my parents voting.

00:08:27.000 I don't think my parents ever talked to us about even voting to be for the presidency.

00:08:31.000 It just wasn't an issue.

00:08:33.000 I think my dad may have felt like, what can I do?

00:08:35.000 I'm one guy.

00:08:35.000 You know, they up there make the decisions and we're sort of like rats in a cage and we just go along with stuff.

00:08:41.000 But I made this movie because I'm seeing my six kids grow up into a world that looks to me like it's falling apart.

00:08:48.000 Everybody was saying the world's going to hell.

00:08:51.000 The right blames the left, the left blames the right, the rich blame the poor, the poor blame the rich.

00:08:55.000 Hollywood blames religion for so many of the evils of the world.

00:08:59.000 And the church is blaming the media for so much of the problem.

00:09:04.000 And I'm thinking, how do we, where's the clear voice of how to get back to what we need?

00:09:10.000 And I thought, if I could only go back in time and speak to our founding fathers and mothers and say, which presidents got it right?

00:09:17.000 Which laws are good?

00:09:18.000 Which ones do we need to chuck?

00:09:20.000 What are the principles that are the non-negotiables?

00:09:23.000 And since I couldn't do that, I thought, well, maybe I just start retracing the escape route of the pilgrims and find out who they were and why they came here.

00:09:31.000 Reagan said, remember the pilgrims.

00:09:35.000 And as I did that, I found out that these were free thinkers.

00:09:38.000 These weren't religious fuddy duddies that had funny hats and belt buckles on their shoes carrying turkey guns around.

00:09:48.000 These were faith-filled, free thinking people who had gotten a hold of the Geneva Bible and they were studying it for themselves and realizing that the tyrant had overstepped his bounds and they wanted to go to a place where they could find the freedom to create a society that would allow them to worship God, that would have freedom.

00:10:07.000 And they eventually got to North America, faced incredible difficulties, and then switched from a social, from what I understand, more of a socialistic construct in the way that they were dealing with their economy to a free market, a free cap, more of a, every guy's owning his own land.

00:10:30.000 Everyone is producing their own food.

00:10:32.000 And so many of the principles that they began to lay down became the template for the free market, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, all these things that we enjoy today.

00:10:45.000 Charlie, you rightfully pointed out that one of the most underused individuals in America is Bill Federer.

00:10:52.000 Bill Federer is awesome.

00:10:53.000 He's an amazing historian.

00:10:54.000 And yet, Bill Federer, he's phenomenal.

00:10:58.000 But Kirk had some really great instruction from a pretty phenomenal man that not many people know a lot about.

00:11:06.000 I want you to touch on Marshall because that guy doesn't get any credit and he has just been plowing for years.

00:11:13.000 He's a treasure.

00:11:14.000 Yeah.

00:11:15.000 Dr. Marshall Foster was a friend of mine.

00:11:17.000 He wrote a book called Battle for the 21st Century.

00:11:21.000 And I was reading it and happened to bump into him in an airport.

00:11:24.000 And we found out that we live 10 miles away from each other.

00:11:26.000 So we got friends.

00:11:27.000 As do Kirk and I.

00:11:28.000 We live in the same community.

00:11:30.000 Yeah.

00:11:30.000 And he began telling me about the people of faith down throughout the ages who fought for liberty.

00:11:39.000 They weren't just the passive Church mice who just sort of went along to get along and took Romans 13 as just sort of the excuse to just roll over and do whatever the government says.

00:11:55.000 And he talked about great people like Alfred the Great, and he talked about Patrick of Ireland, and he talked about so many people who set cultures free by getting the word of God into their hands and applying it to all the different spheres of culture.

00:12:12.000 And so he came with me and showed me this incredible monument in Plymouth, Massachusetts, that happens to be, I think, the most important monument in America.

00:12:20.000 And they haven't torn it down yet.

00:12:22.000 And I don't know, maybe after this podcast.

00:12:24.000 I know they might all of a sudden.

00:12:25.000 They might all of a sudden.

00:12:25.000 It's really hard to find, though.

00:12:27.000 It's really obscure.

00:12:28.000 Yeah.

00:12:29.000 Even though it's the largest, what granite is it?

00:12:30.000 The largest solid granite monument in America.

00:12:32.000 It's 88 feet tall, 80 tons of granite.

00:12:35.000 Good luck moving that.

00:12:36.000 Yeah.

00:12:38.000 It spells out our forefathers recipe for a free and just society.

00:12:44.000 And what's the name of the monument?

00:12:46.000 It's called the National Monument to the Forefathers.

00:12:48.000 And it's hidden behind a forest of trees in a residential neighborhood.

00:12:52.000 So you can't see it unless you go down the right residential street to find it.

00:12:57.000 When it was built, it was built to overlook Plymouth Harbor and Plymouth Rock.

00:13:03.000 When was it built?

00:13:04.000 It was, well, it started just before, it started in the 1800s, and then it was interrupted by the Civil War.

00:13:10.000 Lincoln actually was one of the very first contributors for the funding of it.

00:13:15.000 And the cornerstone, no, it was finally completed in 1889.

00:13:21.000 Wow.

00:13:22.000 And it overlooked Plymouth Harbor, and it was supposed to be a test, but then these trees and then, you know, the changing of the demographic.

00:13:28.000 And so it's protected, but it is amazing.

00:13:32.000 So what's the design?

00:13:33.000 What's the significance of it?

00:13:34.000 This will blow you away.

00:13:35.000 It'll blow you away. 0.88

00:13:36.000 And I'm kicking myself that I didn't, if I had known we were going to be here today, I would have brought one because I've actually made, I hired the Weta workshop who did all the sculpting for Lord of the Rings.

00:13:44.000 For the video, we can superimpose it over.

00:13:46.000 So that's what we'll do.

00:13:47.000 But describe it as we put the sculptures.

00:13:49.000 So these are the best sculptors in the world to make a copy of this.

00:13:53.000 And I've got one that's three feet tall.

00:13:56.000 And then I've got a thousand smaller ones to give out to people.

00:13:59.000 So basically, this monument consists of five figures.

00:14:04.000 And one figure is like this, up at the top.

00:14:06.000 And then she's standing on a platform.

00:14:08.000 And underneath the platform are four figures at the corners of that platform.

00:14:12.000 And the top platform, the top figure, her name is Faith.

00:14:16.000 She's the largest of all five.

00:14:17.000 She's holding a book in her hand.

00:14:19.000 And that book is the Bible and she's pointing to heaven.

00:14:23.000 She's standing on a rock, which is Plymouth Rock.

00:14:25.000 Yeah, I've seen this before.

00:14:26.000 Continue.

00:14:27.000 Yeah, go ahead. 0.52

00:14:28.000 She has a star on her forehead representing wisdom.

00:14:31.000 Go ahead.

00:14:31.000 Monument.

00:14:32.000 Massive.

00:14:33.000 And so they believe that faith also was not just something that you believed in your heart, but it was something that you used wisdom and you reasoned from the word of God in her hand.

00:14:44.000 And that faith would be expressed in four specific ways.

00:14:47.000 First, right below her is morality.

00:14:50.000 And morality is a woman sitting in a chair and she's holding the Ten Commandments in her left hand. 0.99

00:14:56.000 She's holding the scroll of Revelation in her right hand, representing Old and New Testament.

00:15:01.000 But they believed morality was not an external standard imposed by a king or a tyrant.

00:15:07.000 It must start in the heart.

00:15:08.000 So on her left is inscribed the evangelist.

00:15:11.000 He's preaching the gospel so that the heart is transformed by the Spirit of God.

00:15:17.000 Then you begin to love what God loves and hate what God hates, and you adopt God's standard of morality.

00:15:23.000 And that's good morality.

00:15:25.000 Once you have good values, now you go to the next figure, which is law.

00:15:31.000 And now you can put that morality into laws and begin to restrain the evil in your society.

00:15:37.000 Are you blown away by this?

00:15:39.000 And he's holding, the judge is a man of law sitting in the judge's chair.

00:15:43.000 He's holding a book of law.

00:15:45.000 And Charlie, the book in the judge's hand is directly beneath the book in faith's hand, indicating that man's laws must line up under God's laws or they're not good laws.

00:15:58.000 And he's flanked by justice on one side and mercy on the other side. 0.51

00:16:03.000 And justice is a woman holding scales and a sword. 0.96

00:16:06.000 She doesn't bear the sword in vain. 0.85

00:16:08.000 And mercy on the other side.

00:16:11.000 Once you have law and you have civility in your country, now you can educate your children.

00:16:17.000 And they believed education was critical because if you didn't pass these principles on to the second and third generation, you'd lose them.

00:16:25.000 And she has a mother holding the books of knowledge.

00:16:29.000 She's victorious.

00:16:30.000 She has a wreath of victory around her head.

00:16:32.000 And on her right, it says youth.

00:16:33.000 And there she's training up a young person in the way that they should go.

00:16:37.000 And on her other side is an old man, wisdom.

00:16:40.000 And he's holding a Bible and a globe, indicating he has a biblical worldview.

00:16:45.000 Once you've educated your kids, your grandkids, and your great-grandkids in the faith, in morality, and established laws to protect those good values in your country, you now have the fourth figure, which is liberty.

00:16:58.000 And he's this just muscular, strong soldier dressed in the full armor that you find in Ephesians chapter 6.

00:17:09.000 He's got the breastplate of righteousness, the helmet of salvation, the belt of truth.

00:17:14.000 The chains on his wrists and his ankles are broken because tyranny has been overthrown.

00:17:18.000 Love it.

00:17:19.000 And he's got the lion of England slain, the hide's over his back, the claw is on his shoulder, and he's got the sword back in its sheath because tyranny has been overthrown.

00:17:31.000 But he's looking out over the Atlantic Ocean because he's ready to defend anyone who would try to take away his biblical faith, his morality, his laws, or the ability to educate his children in a biblical worldview.

00:17:44.000 So the concept of government public education would be anathema to them because they just came away from that whole thing.

00:17:51.000 And on his left is his wife, and her name is Peace.

00:17:53.000 And she's holding a basket of overflowing with gifts and things for her family and friends.

00:18:00.000 And he's liberated both from the internal power of sin and can defeat those inner demons. 0.97

00:18:08.000 And he's liberated from the external powers of tyranny and bad, big government, which I've learned sucks. 0.72

00:18:16.000 It's an awesome monument.

00:18:17.000 And I want to give one to every politician, to every president of educational institutions, patriots, parents.

00:18:24.000 And I want to give one to the president.

00:18:26.000 I got to get one to him.

00:18:27.000 I visited an event up in the Northeast, and someone mentioned this to me, I remember years ago, four or five years ago.

00:18:32.000 And I looked it up, and when I saw it, I was like, oh, yeah, I've seen this before.

00:18:35.000 But I had no idea that it existed prior to that.

00:18:37.000 No idea.

00:18:38.000 And your summary of that was phenomenal.

00:18:41.000 And I made a whole documentary about it.

00:18:43.000 Now, the documentary is in DVD format.

00:18:46.000 I'm wanting to get this out.

00:18:48.000 Let's put it on YouTube.

00:18:49.000 Yeah, we got to get this thing out to the masses.

00:18:52.000 Because the way he described it just now was outstanding.

00:18:56.000 But in depth, the way he does it, I was just blown away.

00:19:02.000 It really has to be brought out, especially in this time.

00:19:06.000 It's even more, you know, those principles that our founders left us.

00:19:10.000 It's like, I feel like it was almost like they had the idea.

00:19:14.000 I mean, why would they etch this stuff in stone?

00:19:18.000 Why would the American people 150 years ago say, this is so important?

00:19:22.000 We're going to make the largest granite monument.

00:19:24.000 It's almost as though they thought it would be easy for a culture of people to get lost.

00:19:30.000 But explain to me, and maybe there's not a good answer.

00:19:32.000 How does that forgotten?

00:19:33.000 How do not more people know about this?

00:19:37.000 Is that a metaphor for the country?

00:19:41.000 I think so.

00:19:43.000 I think so, yeah.

00:19:44.000 And I think it's also been protected so that we can revisit it.

00:19:47.000 I mean, it isn't, it's in the national registry, right?

00:19:50.000 So, or something like that.

00:19:51.000 It must be.

00:19:52.000 So, some communist city council can't remove it or something.

00:19:55.000 Well, I know that it was originally owned by the city of Plymouth, and then it was given apparently for a dollar to the state of Massachusetts to take care of it.

00:20:06.000 And it's like the forgotten stepchild that, you know, it's not manicured very well.

00:20:12.000 There was, you know, all kinds of garbage on the top of it.

00:20:17.000 The Audubon Society apparently were protecting some form of birds that were making a nest on top of Faith's head, and they were like, there's like bird poop all dripping down her face and everything else.

00:20:26.000 And, you know, it's like kind of like the forgotten monument.

00:20:30.000 And I think it's one of the most important you could ever find.

00:20:35.000 In Plymouth, Massachusetts, pretty awfully significant.

00:20:38.000 It is.

00:20:39.000 Yeah.

00:20:41.000 Yeah, I'd love to take you there sometime.

00:20:43.000 And I know a guy who runs the museum, and he's there to preserve the real story of the pilgrims.

00:20:50.000 And he could give you just the most phenomenal walking tour around that monument.

00:20:56.000 It's something where you look at the tenets of faith, law, wisdom, liberty, peace, as you articulated it.

00:21:06.000 We're told that everything from that era and from the last hundred years is awful and is nonsense and garbage and should be thrown out and deleted instantaneously.

00:21:15.000 And it actually you start to realize that there's a foundation of the ideals that was fought for.

00:21:20.000 And it wasn't, it's not insignificant that all these ideas of the West found a launching off point and was deliberately unimplemented.

00:21:30.000 Yeah.

00:21:32.000 And I'm so thankful.

00:21:33.000 I mean, the fact that we can do what we're doing right now, I think, is a result of that.

00:21:39.000 And one of the things that I've learned by listening to you and listening to my friend Dr. Marshall Foster and guys like Rob McCoy who are preaching this from the pulpit every week is that all of these great institutions that we have and all of these freedoms that we have have to be accompanied by personal self-government, right?

00:22:01.000 Like freedom comes with the responsibility to do the right thing, not just do anything, but to do the right thing.

00:22:12.000 And I think that's where our faith comes into it: if I love my neighbor as myself, then I can be trusted with freedom.

00:22:21.000 But if I'm going to take advantage of other people, then someone's going to come in and need to govern me, right?

00:22:26.000 Because I'm being irresponsible with that freedom.

00:22:31.000 And I'm so grieved when I see young people today who've had so much freedom for so long.

00:22:41.000 They don't know what tyranny and oppression is.

00:22:43.000 So I feel like they're not even really fighting for freedom.

00:22:47.000 They're fighting for free stuff.

00:22:50.000 They're fighting for security or provision.

00:22:52.000 Provide me with this, give me that, give me everything that I need.

00:22:56.000 But I think it was Thomas Jefferson who said, if you've got a government that's big enough to give you everything that you want, it's also big enough to take away everything you have.

00:23:06.000 And the great, one of the few downfalls of freedom is if the people that live in freedom don't understand in order to have freedom, you must have responsibility, then freedom will actually either turn people into tyrants or they will seek tyranny themselves, which is the inverse of freedom.

00:23:26.000 And that is the perplexing, unsolvable dilemma with freedom.

00:23:34.000 And freedom isn't just necessarily having access to anything you want.

00:23:39.000 Freedom is freedom from bondage, to be removed from those things that will enslave you.

00:23:45.000 And cultures don't understand that.

00:23:47.000 That if we're left to our own vices, we devolve into a place where we are just absolutely enslaved to our passions. 0.88

00:23:59.000 Yeah.

00:24:00.000 And then so the irony is that we give young people limitless freedom.

00:24:07.000 We say, yeah, go do whatever you want.

00:24:09.000 I would say unlimited choices.

00:24:12.000 Again, freedom.

00:24:13.000 They think it's freedom.

00:24:14.000 I'm sorry.

00:24:14.000 Yeah.

00:24:14.000 That's it.

00:24:15.000 And we phrase it as that.

00:24:16.000 Yeah, and you're correct.

00:24:17.000 Say, go do whatever you want or whatever. 0.95

00:24:19.000 And they actually end up being less free than any other generation ever because they all become bondages to their own poor choices. 0.99

00:24:27.000 That's the better way to word it. 0.94

00:24:28.000 Isn't that crazy?

00:24:29.000 And what is the most difficult part of living in a society that has liberty and freedom?

00:24:29.000 Yeah.

00:24:37.000 And there's a difference between the two.

00:24:39.000 They could be cousins, and Rob walks through the difference.

00:24:41.000 Yeah, Bob McEwen did it.

00:24:43.000 Yeah.

00:24:43.000 But they're interchanged, I think, incorrectly sometimes.

00:24:47.000 But for the sake of this, we can use them both.

00:24:49.000 They're cousins.

00:24:49.000 They're not opposites.

00:24:53.000 When you have a society like that, something that has, I haven't cracked the code yet.

00:24:58.000 And the only way I could crack the code, I would think, is to have a continual, such a hyper-focus on self-government, and we've lost that, is that eventually freedom can be used against the society that embraces freedom.

00:25:14.000 Say that again.

00:25:15.000 So eventually the freedom will be used against the society that embraces freedom.

00:25:18.000 For example, you have an entire generation now that uses the freedom of speech, freedom, all that, to be able to spread outright and total lies and misinformation so that they can destroy the very country that gave them that freedom in the first place.

00:25:33.000 Yes.

00:25:34.000 Oh, that's well, well said.

00:25:36.000 And it's a puzzling conundrum because in some ways we want to preserve this very special thing that we have, right? 0.74

00:25:49.000 And so, and this is what the Chinese have done to us, is they say, well, you've all this freedom, all this liberty. 0.96

00:25:54.000 Okay, we'll go buy up all your institutions. 1.00

00:25:57.000 It's to make you less free.

00:25:57.000 Right.

00:25:58.000 So we have this free society, this open international agreement where they then use that against us, then go infiltrate us with tyranny.

00:26:07.000 Right.

00:26:08.000 And in some ways, if you don't understand why you're able to be able to speak freely or go to church and you just do it, then that will almost guarantee you almost be guaranteed to lose that very thing.

00:26:22.000 That's so true.

00:26:23.000 I see that all around me.

00:26:25.000 I see people that are, they have the freedom to burn the flag.

00:26:29.000 They have the freedom to protest and to write F Trump on the side of the bottom.

00:26:34.000 You and I fight for that right.

00:26:35.000 Well, not the vandalism, but yes.

00:26:37.000 But for the right of freedom.

00:26:38.000 Of disagreement, sure.

00:26:40.000 And then I go, but then you're using that to flip the government to the type of government that will actually either throw you in jail or kill you for doing that very thing.

00:26:52.000 That's right.

00:26:53.000 Don't you understand?

00:26:54.000 Like, if you want to turn us into Venezuela or you want to turn us into some totalitarian type of, don't you know that that same type of government now has the power and when they flip on you, you have no recourse.

00:27:09.000 And the only way I've been able to solve that in my mind is that they don't necessarily want the freedom.

00:27:16.000 They actually want to become the tyrant.

00:27:18.000 So they don't want tyranny.

00:27:19.000 They want to become the tyrant.

00:27:20.000 Right.

00:27:21.000 So they want to be in charge.

00:27:22.000 Churchill said that When he spoke in the United States at a college, the name escapes me, but he said, European politics, unlike American politics, European politics is always about power.

00:27:37.000 Whereas in America, American politics was always about truth.

00:27:42.000 And he said, I fear because America is now coming to a place where politics is about power.

00:27:47.000 So you use that freedom, and then you go to nefarious means.

00:27:55.000 Then you gain power, and then you suppress the freedom.

00:27:58.000 That's right.

00:27:59.000 And suppressing the freedom is, in a sense, suppressing the truth.

00:28:01.000 Now we can censor you.

00:28:03.000 Now we don't want to discuss truth anymore.

00:28:06.000 We don't want anything to do with the truth.

00:28:07.000 This violates community standards.

00:28:08.000 Yeah, it's fake news.

00:28:09.000 And you don't have the freedom.

00:28:11.000 You don't have the freedom to make me feel bad.

00:28:14.000 It has nothing to do with contending for ideas.

00:28:16.000 It's now my emotions and my feelings.

00:28:19.000 And we become enslaved.

00:28:21.000 And so what ends up happening, and we've seen this in the entire generation, we play into the worst devices of their upbringing.

00:28:29.000 And most parents are just awful parents.

00:28:32.000 And most are.

00:28:33.000 You guys are both terrific, but they basically want to be their kid's friend, and they don't teach them the history of our country at all.

00:28:40.000 And they say, yeah, you know, go, sure, go smoke marijuana and go do all that stuff.

00:28:44.000 Yeah, whatever. 0.74

00:28:45.000 And it creates really miserable people.

00:28:47.000 And even on a micro level, that individual will eventually want to live either under a tyrant or become a tyrant themselves.

00:28:56.000 Yeah.

00:28:58.000 I can see it.

00:28:58.000 I believe it.

00:28:59.000 I can connect the dots and see that happening.

00:29:02.000 And so here's the question.

00:29:03.000 And I think I know the way Rob would answer it.

00:29:05.000 And I don't even know the answer is, do human beings actually desire to be free?

00:29:09.000 And I don't think there's a right or wrong answer.

00:29:11.000 I think some people do, some don't.

00:29:12.000 I do think that a certain portion of the human condition wants to be taken care of, especially the human population.

00:29:18.000 I really do.

00:29:19.000 Because being free is a very dangerous thing.

00:29:24.000 Especially without God.

00:29:25.000 The only way for someone to take care of you is they're going to do all the work and you don't do any.

00:29:35.000 So the only way to operate that is you have to enslave them to afford your lifestyle at their expense.

00:29:41.000 That's right.

00:29:42.000 So the people who are enslaved are obviously going to be the majority because that's how all oligarchies operate.

00:29:49.000 The few rule the many.

00:29:51.000 Always been more slaves than masters.

00:29:52.000 And those slaves cry out for freedom.

00:29:56.000 And that freedom comes by realizing who you are and awakening to that, that you're creating the image of God and these are inalienable rights and you can push back.

00:30:04.000 And it's going to come at a cost, but it's worth fighting for because your children don't have to be raised in slavery and you're doing it for generations to come.

00:30:12.000 And you finally get to a place where you say they've taken everything from me.

00:30:14.000 I have nothing to lose.

00:30:15.000 I'm willing to fight for this.

00:30:17.000 And then you get that Titler cycle.

00:30:19.000 From bondage comes freedom.

00:30:21.000 Freedom comes abundance.

00:30:22.000 Abundance comes apathy.

00:30:24.000 Apathy comes dependence.

00:30:25.000 Independence comes bondage.

00:30:27.000 And that cycle, until you infuse that triangle of freedom, faith, virtue, and freedom, we're going to be stuck in repeating that and destroying this nation that's had great freedom.

00:30:38.000 Yeah.

00:30:38.000 Gosh.

00:30:39.000 I feel like I just need to freeze what you just said and just study that for an hour.

00:30:45.000 There's so much packed into what you guys are saying.

00:30:50.000 I learned so much by listening to you guys.

00:30:53.000 We were getting a tour of the facilities.

00:30:55.000 And the staff was showing Kirk around.

00:30:58.000 And I was really moved by something he said.

00:31:00.000 And I think you're going to really appreciate this, Charlie.

00:31:04.000 The staff had commented what they do and what the vision is here at Turning Point.

00:31:08.000 And repeat that.

00:31:10.000 And then what you said about Robbie Zacharias.

00:31:12.000 Oh, right.

00:31:13.000 Yeah.

00:31:16.000 A couple of the staff here were saying that they're turning activists into leaders.

00:31:25.000 Leaders and leaders into activists.

00:31:26.000 And then leaders into activists.

00:31:27.000 And I said, that's so great.

00:31:29.000 And it reminds me of a mentor friend of mine named Ravi Zacharias.

00:31:29.000 That's so important.

00:31:34.000 Yeah, he was terrific.

00:31:36.000 Whose motto was, we're trying to turn believers into thinkers and help thinkers become believers.

00:31:47.000 So good.

00:31:47.000 But I got to say, the comment a couple of your staff members was, who's Robbie Zacharias?

00:31:51.000 Well, you know, and I'm amazing.

00:31:54.000 And there's so many young people I've never heard of him.

00:31:56.000 And we've got to make sure that we solve that pattern.

00:32:00.000 Robbie Zacharias.

00:32:01.000 We got to dust these books off and get him into hand.

00:32:03.000 I know.

00:32:04.000 I know.

00:32:04.000 Well, he is a great social media presence, but we got to.

00:32:07.000 And he was amazing.

00:32:08.000 I had a chance to meet him a year and a half ago last summer.

00:32:12.000 He was so gracious, so awesome.

00:32:13.000 He is.

00:32:14.000 He was one of the best apologists ever.

00:32:16.000 And he gave a speech once at Princeton that just like brought the house down.

00:32:16.000 Ever.

00:32:19.000 All atheists. 1.00

00:32:21.000 And he didn't give an inch.

00:32:22.000 He was amazing.

00:32:23.000 He is.

00:32:24.000 Gosh, every time, every time.

00:32:25.000 He's in heaven right now.

00:32:26.000 Yeah, he is.

00:32:28.000 That's one where I think the Lord stood up when he came in.

00:32:30.000 Yeah.

00:32:31.000 All right.

00:32:31.000 I got it.

00:32:32.000 Hold on.

00:32:32.000 All right.

00:32:32.000 Hold on.

00:32:34.000 I'm going to put my drink down.

00:32:34.000 One sec.

00:32:36.000 I'll try to hold my fresco.

00:32:37.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:32:38.000 Precisely.

00:32:40.000 So being in Hollywood, being in pop culture, being in that whole world, what have you seen works the best when communicating these values to people?

00:32:56.000 What have I seen works the best?

00:32:57.000 In pop culture?

00:32:58.000 All of them.

00:32:59.000 Or in the entertainment industry.

00:32:59.000 Communication styles, methods, means of communication, argumentation.

00:33:05.000 What are things that don't work?

00:33:06.000 We can start with that.

00:33:08.000 What was one thing you tried to be persuasive with that didn't work?

00:33:12.000 Careful.

00:33:17.000 That's a really good question, Charlie.

00:33:19.000 You know, I've got it's interesting how the means of communication have been changing over the years.

00:33:26.000 And it's so brilliant that you're focusing on a younger generation.

00:33:29.000 Rob had said to my son outside here, he held up and said, hey, if I could give you a brand new iPhone with all the bells and whistles and everything on it, but you could only download one app, what would it be?

00:33:39.000 And he thought for a second and said, Instagram.

00:33:43.000 Or Snapchat.

00:33:44.000 Right.

00:33:44.000 And my comment to you was.

00:33:46.000 Yeah, he didn't say Fox News.

00:33:48.000 He didn't say some of these television shows.

00:33:51.000 And so I'm looking honestly at what you're doing.

00:33:55.000 And I'm looking at the things that others are doing, like Candace Owens and Ben Shapiro.

00:34:00.000 And I'm seeing young people just get their information.

00:34:03.000 And the stuff that's working is these short, pithy statements, sound bites, video clips.

00:34:13.000 And those are the things that stick in their head.

00:34:15.000 And it's good and bad.

00:34:19.000 I see young people, a lot of them, they're not paying attention in terms of researching, fact-checking things, really diving deep into it.

00:34:27.000 Attention span is so short.

00:34:31.000 And so I wish it wasn't so short.

00:34:33.000 I wish they would dig more into it.

00:34:36.000 And I wish they were learning this stuff in school.

00:34:38.000 But it appears that the stuff that you're doing and Prager University and others is really, really, I think, the most effective right now.

00:34:48.000 Yeah.

00:34:50.000 It's an interesting thing.

00:34:51.000 And I think that the conservative movement has been more successful in the last five or six years because of social media.

00:34:59.000 And Donald Trump got elected largely because of social media.

00:35:02.000 And I think they know that, which is why they're going to turn the spigot off in the next couple months and even more so in the next year and a half.

00:35:08.000 And we don't have a solution for that as conservatives.

00:35:11.000 We don't.

00:35:13.000 And there will be a couple people that will be allowed to be the token conservatives on these platforms where they'll be like, oh, yeah, see, look, we actually care about freedom of speech and all this.

00:35:21.000 But the tech companies, and this is a completely separate issue, but they're far more powerful than our government.

00:35:27.000 And that's an example of freedom being used against us, right?

00:35:29.000 Right.

00:35:30.000 Start a private company, not going to break you up.

00:35:32.000 We love free markets.

00:35:33.000 Next thing you know, we have private companies more powerful than the Pentagon.

00:35:36.000 And what happens in a private company starts to own every politician.

00:35:41.000 Every politician.

00:35:42.000 In both parties.

00:35:43.000 So they go in front of Congress, and it was pretty much a joke.

00:35:47.000 I mean, you had one member of Congress, really nice Republican, I know him, ask Mark Zuckerberg, why is Donald Trump Jr. locked out of Twitter?

00:35:55.000 Why is Donald Trump Jr. locked out of Twitter?

00:35:57.000 And Mark Zuckerberg's like, I'm the CEO of Facebook, sir.

00:36:00.000 I don't have any idea what happens at Twitter.

00:36:02.000 And you just keep on repeating it.

00:36:06.000 This is what our party does.

00:36:08.000 You realize that it's a completely separate... 0.96

00:36:10.000 Trying to make a fool out of Mark Zuckerberg just blew up in his face.

00:36:15.000 My favorite part is when these guys have no idea what these tech companies are, but they receive money from them, of course, right?

00:36:20.000 And they're asking them the most vanilla questions.

00:36:22.000 And it's a serious issue.

00:36:24.000 I mean, I'm not an alarmist by any means, but if the tech companies do what I think they're going to do, we will have a one-party state like California in five years.

00:36:33.000 You will not be able to get information out.

00:36:35.000 Well, there's no means of communication at all whatsoever.

00:36:39.000 Just look at an example.

00:36:40.000 We had nine doctors in our podcast that were kind of the dissident doctors, right?

00:36:43.000 All independent doctors, board certified.

00:36:46.000 All of them came on our podcast.

00:36:49.000 Many of them have been taken down.

00:36:50.000 The censorship went to an entirely new level with these guys, though.

00:36:54.000 So on our podcast, they plugged their website, AmericaFrontlinedoctors.com.

00:36:59.000 Just watched all three of those videos from the press conference that they just had in Washington, D.C. For the first time in my experience that I've ever seen, the web server company took down their website.

00:37:09.000 Not a social media company, the server company.

00:37:13.000 Think about that.

00:37:14.000 So that's GoDaddy or whomever it was.

00:37:15.000 I don't want to implicate GoDaddy or I don't know who it was.

00:37:19.000 Said, we're taking it down.

00:37:20.000 So you can't even have a website anymore.

00:37:23.000 That's like saying you can't own a home.

00:37:26.000 That's crazy.

00:37:27.000 And so my, I mean, you put on here, and this is a very provocative argument that I make, but you have liberty here, right?

00:37:36.000 You have faith and peace and wisdom, but liberty in particular.

00:37:39.000 And one thing that free market conservatives, of which I am one, can never answer is what happens when a private company restricts your liberty?

00:37:47.000 They say, oh, find a new company.

00:37:49.000 What if there isn't one?

00:37:50.000 Then what?

00:37:51.000 Right.

00:37:52.000 And they say, oh, well, eventually a competitor will rise up.

00:37:54.000 What if it doesn't?

00:37:55.000 Because what if that company keeps buying every single company at a 10 times multiple?

00:38:00.000 I would say our family.

00:38:00.000 What do you do?

00:38:01.000 Break them up.

00:38:02.000 Yeah, our founders wrote that in the Declaration of Independence because when they start usurping inalienable rights of other citizens, then you have the right and duty to push back.

00:38:11.000 So that my opinion, and it's a hard argument, right?

00:38:13.000 I mean, I love the free market.

00:38:14.000 I don't like government.

00:38:15.000 I mean, I have a whole organization dedicated to it.

00:38:17.000 But don't enslave people.

00:38:19.000 But here's the reason, though.

00:38:20.000 And this is where conservatives fail.

00:38:22.000 Why don't I like government?

00:38:23.000 Because government restricts liberties and harms people.

00:38:27.000 So I actually don't like government because it does that things.

00:38:31.000 I don't like anything that does those things.

00:38:33.000 And so if something that exists does the things I don't like, then I'm not going to tolerate that.

00:38:38.000 Because then we begin to be governed by these private companies.

00:38:42.000 Exactly.

00:38:42.000 It's no different than being governed by the federal government.

00:38:45.000 They just call themselves Google.

00:38:47.000 Right.

00:38:47.000 Google's almost a trillion dollar company.

00:38:49.000 They have 200,000 employees.

00:38:50.000 They work on weekends.

00:38:51.000 They're way smarter.

00:38:53.000 And they have total contempt for Christians, for a biblical worldview, and for conservatives.

00:38:58.000 So they could push a series of buttons that would topple civilization.

00:39:02.000 Our government does not even have that kind of power.

00:39:04.000 It doesn't.

00:39:05.000 The only difference is our government has probably more thermonuclear weapons.

00:39:10.000 But who does the Pentagon go to to help design their surveillance state?

00:39:13.000 They go to our tech companies.

00:39:14.000 They don't have that.

00:39:16.000 The government, in a lot of different ways, they're just kind of subcontracting out their tyranny to our private companies.

00:39:22.000 So, yeah, it's one of those questions where what are we supposed to do about it?

00:39:25.000 So, I love the feedback, right?

00:39:27.000 But I live in fear every single day.

00:39:29.000 Not fear, that's the right word.

00:39:31.000 I live in expectation every single day that we're all going to get shut off.

00:39:34.000 My 1.1 million on Instagram, my 1.8 million almost on Twitter, the millions on YouTube, 1.7 million on Facebook.

00:39:44.000 They could decide to shut it all off.

00:39:45.000 And think about that.

00:39:46.000 Think of the years of work I put into these platforms, right?

00:39:49.000 The videos, the travel, the millions of dollars I put into them.

00:39:49.000 Yeah.

00:39:53.000 Yeah.

00:39:53.000 You know, Charlie, what do you do there?

00:39:56.000 Because what you're saying now is you're expressing what I've been thinking in my head, and I don't know how to say it.

00:40:01.000 But I thought to myself, well, wait a minute.

00:40:04.000 You know, Facebook is a private company.

00:40:06.000 So they have every right in the world to say, well, we don't think that's good content, so we're not going to promote that on our platform.

00:40:15.000 Maybe.

00:40:16.000 Isn't that, I mean, we wouldn't want to say someone's going to come in here to Turning Point and get to say whatever they want if you don't like it.

00:40:24.000 Let's ask ourselves two hypotheticals.

00:40:26.000 Let's work through this.

00:40:28.000 Can Verizon say Trump supporters aren't allowed to make calls on our network?

00:40:36.000 I suppose they could.

00:40:37.000 It's illegal.

00:40:38.000 It is.

00:40:39.000 Yeah.

00:40:39.000 It's FCC regulated.

00:40:40.000 You can't have viewpoint over telecommunication.

00:40:44.000 You can't just disconnect a call.

00:40:46.000 But that's illegal because somebody with a very clear understanding of liberty contended for that law.

00:40:55.000 You say you can't legislate morality.

00:40:57.000 Every law is going to represent someone's morality.

00:41:00.000 Yeah.

00:41:00.000 Well, let's do another one, right?

00:41:02.000 So let's pretend you're in Jackson Hole, Wyoming, and you're a Trump supporter.

00:41:09.000 And Delta finds out.

00:41:12.000 They say, you know what, Kirk Cameron?

00:41:13.000 You're a Christian.

00:41:14.000 Let's just say that.

00:41:15.000 Let's make it even more. 1.00

00:41:16.000 No Christians are allowed to fly in Delta Airlines. 0.99

00:41:20.000 But the only way to get out of Jackson sometimes is Delta. 0.98

00:41:23.000 Yeah.

00:41:25.000 Are they allowed to do that?

00:41:26.000 Now, airlines do have a little bit more flexibility, but the FAA says they cannot discriminate based on viewpoint or religion.

00:41:32.000 So that's a pretty good rule, right?

00:41:34.000 Because there's only so many carriers and accessibility and all that.

00:41:38.000 So who gets sort of governed that way?

00:41:41.000 But you wouldn't do it to a church.

00:41:42.000 You can't go to a church, right?

00:41:44.000 And say, well, you can't discriminate based on religion.

00:41:46.000 Well, but we are a religion, right?

00:41:48.000 Like we're Jewish or we're Muslim, so I'm not going to have an atheistic rabbi.

00:41:53.000 So yes and no.

00:41:55.000 I think that if a synagogue was hurting people's liberties, it's a question, right?

00:42:00.000 And so we've already seen it debated, right?

00:42:02.000 So for example, you can't murder someone in a synagogue, but you can tell someone, you know, I'm going to do something that you can't speak or you have to sit in the back.

00:42:09.000 So that's debated.

00:42:11.000 But I guess the question is, is Google really a private company?

00:42:15.000 And that's a very, very interesting question, right?

00:42:18.000 And it's not just the size question, right?

00:42:21.000 It's that they themselves are basically a government.

00:42:25.000 Now, they might be filed as Google LLC, publicly traded, but nothing about them is a private company.

00:42:33.000 They are the information portal for the entire planet.

00:42:36.000 For all intents and purposes, they are the consciousness of most of our human exploration.

00:42:43.000 And so that's different than like the bakery in Colorado that has a different viewpoint.

00:42:50.000 In some ways, Google, I think, has a moral mantle that they have backed themselves into, where now you're dealing with something that's much more, what's the right word?

00:43:02.000 The much more important is one way to say it, but it's more than that.

00:43:08.000 It's much more precious than just, I want a cake.

00:43:11.000 It's, can I tell you what to think?

00:43:15.000 Now we're talking about a level of tyranny that the founders couldn't even explore, right?

00:43:20.000 So typically the free market argument is Google, just go to another search engine.

00:43:26.000 Okay, hold on.

00:43:27.000 First of all, they control 92% of all search results.

00:43:30.000 But is it moral?

00:43:31.000 Is it okay if that private company that has 92% of all search results and 70% of all email delivery, right, Gmail, the number one video processing site, viewing site on the planet?

00:43:44.000 What if they decide that they don't want anyone that says anything on the center, right?

00:43:50.000 What does that mean for your civilization, right?

00:43:52.000 And so the way I look at it is we do have laws on the books that are supposed to be restricting against monopolies.

00:43:56.000 Sherman Antitrust Act in 1890, if any company engages in monopolistic style behavior, it's illegal.

00:44:02.000 And I think that there's something to be said that tyranny in all forms should be confronted against those that wish to keep men free, right?

00:44:09.000 To break those bonds.

00:44:11.000 And so when you have entire portions of the American population that can't speak their mind because of a private company, I think that's the strong exploit in the week.

00:44:20.000 And I think you have to use what you can to break them up.

00:44:21.000 And I don't come to that decision lightly.

00:44:23.000 I don't.

00:44:23.000 No, because you believe in capitalism and you want people to be able to grow their companies and make it as big as they want.

00:44:28.000 I'll tell you this.

00:44:28.000 So this is a very important thing.

00:44:31.000 I love the free market, but the free market is not my religion.

00:44:35.000 It's not.

00:44:39.000 I would insert this.

00:44:41.000 Google gets away with what they get away with because we prefer the convenience more than we do with the morality associated with surrendering that in order to have that convenience.

00:44:58.000 Liberty requires vigilance from every citizen.

00:45:01.000 And when we come to this place in the Teitler cycle where we have abundance, we have abundance of information easily accessible.

00:45:08.000 We purchase these iPhones and they didn't put a gun to our head to buy them.

00:45:12.000 They provide maps.

00:45:14.000 They provide direction.

00:45:16.000 They provide reservations and we can book flights and we pay them to do this because they've made our life simple.

00:45:22.000 Well, we don't pay them.

00:45:24.000 Well, we purchase the phone because they make our life simple.

00:45:27.000 And so with that, they take all that resource, all that money, and they use it nefariously.

00:45:33.000 But because we have abundance and access to these great inventions, we become apathetic.

00:45:39.000 And then the apathy comes or complacency, then apathy, then it's dependence.

00:45:44.000 And bondage, yeah.

00:45:45.000 And bondage.

00:45:46.000 So we have to start pushing back. 0.71

00:45:49.000 The only reason why laws are there is because people were elected to be able to contend for those laws.

00:45:54.000 We've got to fight.

00:45:55.000 And so I always say if Google was kicking left-wing viewpoints off their platform, and if Google was a conservative company that had 92% market share, I mean, in a second, they would be called to be broken up.

00:46:08.000 And just, it wouldn't even be a question, right?

00:46:10.000 And Google is probably the best example of this because they say, well, we don't manipulate results.

00:46:18.000 We don't do these things.

00:46:19.000 We know that's not true.

00:46:20.000 We have incredible amounts of data to show that.

00:46:24.000 But what's going to stop Google from toppling a civilization?

00:46:27.000 We're supposed to just trust them.

00:46:29.000 I mean, the one interesting thing is I'm against government abuse and government tyranny.

00:46:34.000 If the government locked me up, I get a lawyer.

00:46:38.000 I get a trial at least.

00:46:39.000 I get a jury of my peers.

00:46:41.000 If Google decides to shut me up, I get nothing.

00:46:43.000 I have no due process.

00:46:45.000 So we believe in first freedoms, right?

00:46:47.000 Freedom of expression, liberty.

00:46:49.000 How can you express yourself if you're not allowed on the internet today?

00:46:53.000 I mean, go do a protest outside, I guess.

00:46:56.000 But you now have a growing population of people online that have been kicked off of every platform.

00:47:02.000 And I know some of those people work for me.

00:47:04.000 Young kid, 22 years old, Alex LaRusso, 100,000 followers on Twitter, retweeted by the president.

00:47:12.000 Twitter decided that he was too controversial.

00:47:13.000 Digitally assassinated him.

00:47:15.000 All of his work gone.

00:47:17.000 His freedom of speech is gone.

00:47:19.000 He's a really neat guy.

00:47:20.000 He's super smart.

00:47:20.000 Yeah.

00:47:21.000 And I'm on my podcast.

00:47:22.000 That's an infringement of liberty.

00:47:24.000 It is.

00:47:25.000 And I don't care if it's a private company or government.

00:47:28.000 I'm not going to tolerate that.

00:47:29.000 Especially when it's impartial like that.

00:47:31.000 Especially when it's just so just.

00:47:35.000 And I guess the counterargument is: well, are you going to make sure, are you going to have someone come into my church and say that?

00:47:39.000 Well, I think that there's, I think you can still have first freedoms while you also have 10,000 churches.

00:47:45.000 But when you have a company that is so big and you cannot express yourself or petition your government, no, I think that there needs to be a new set of rules there.

00:47:52.000 I really do.

00:47:53.000 And the difference is the church doesn't own the narrative around the world.

00:47:56.000 So you have the choice to leave.

00:47:58.000 You vote on your feet.

00:48:00.000 There's no choice to leave.

00:48:02.000 You can't.

00:48:03.000 These accents work together, all of them.

00:48:05.000 And so it's a very, you know, and I say this very clearly.

00:48:09.000 You know, I have a value hierarchy, right?

00:48:10.000 And the thing that I value most is, of course, truth, which is Christ and God, right?

00:48:16.000 And from truth, we get freedom and liberty.

00:48:18.000 And because I value freedom and liberty, I love free enterprise and markets and private property.

00:48:24.000 So what's above free market and private property?

00:48:27.000 Liberty.

00:48:28.000 So I believe that markets are something that could be utilized towards the betterment of society.

00:48:34.000 But I'm not dogmatic about my free market beliefs.

00:48:37.000 I'm not.

00:48:38.000 I think it's useful for human beings.

00:48:40.000 But sometimes in the conservative movement, some people will say we can never waver from our free market fundamentalism. 0.99

00:48:46.000 I think that's a really stupid thing to say. 0.97

00:48:50.000 And I love the market. 1.00

00:48:51.000 Trust me.

00:48:52.000 It's generally done phenomenal things.

00:48:54.000 But what if there is an exception that is an outgrowth of that, that uses the freedom against us?

00:48:59.000 Right.

00:49:00.000 Then I think we should be unafraid to act.

00:49:01.000 That's my opinion.

00:49:02.000 I'm in agreement.

00:49:03.000 Yeah.

00:49:04.000 It's like, yeah, yeah, I hear what you're saying.

00:49:09.000 That's why that self-government is so important.

00:49:13.000 Google needs to be able, Google or whoever the company is, needs to be able to say, you know what, what we're doing is this is morally not right.

00:49:20.000 You know, we're suppressing people's freedoms.

00:49:22.000 We're taking their voice and canceling them, digitally assassinating them because they disagree with us.

00:49:27.000 But that's where ultimately your faith comes into it and my faith comes into it because we're going to say, I mean, if you ultimately are not appealing to an all-loving, all-truthful, sovereign God for your moral standard, Google has its own moral standard and it becomes its own God with its own tension.

00:49:46.000 It's worse than that.

00:49:47.000 Google thinks they're God.

00:49:48.000 That's what I'm saying.

00:49:49.000 And the first commandment is cancel conservative ideas.

00:49:54.000 They have a hundred-year plan where they think they can create something that's close to a supernatural.

00:49:58.000 They do.

00:49:59.000 Yeah.

00:50:01.000 Through artificial intelligence, creating new human beings, and almost creating a machine that is so powerful that it can be similar to something what they call supernatural.

00:50:11.000 That's the future my kids' kids are going to live in.

00:50:14.000 So the governor says that we can't, Governor California says we can't meet and shuts all churches, but you can do live stream.

00:50:23.000 That's permitted.

00:50:25.000 So we didn't shut, but we still do live stream.

00:50:28.000 And we put content on our live stream that YouTube disagrees with and takes down our live stream.

00:50:36.000 So where's the freedom of religion?

00:50:39.000 They usher us into, they take us out of the building and out of fellowship, put us in front of a camera, and then declare what we can and can't say.

00:50:47.000 We got problems here.

00:50:49.000 Well, then all of a sudden now you're being held hostage to private companies.

00:50:51.000 Exactly.

00:50:53.000 By the government.

00:50:55.000 And then the counterargument would be like, well, but it's their company.

00:50:55.000 This is...

00:50:59.000 It's a private company.

00:51:00.000 But the government is telling me I must use that.

00:51:02.000 Here's the problem.

00:51:03.000 I don't have any other access.

00:51:04.000 Here's the issue.

00:51:05.000 Google is now kind of like an interstate highway.

00:51:07.000 They're a delivery mechanism now.

00:51:10.000 And so whether they like it or not, they have created themselves to be like the I-5 or the 405.

00:51:17.000 The 405, even if you're a bitter, awful person, you can go get to use the 405.

00:51:23.000 Exactly.

00:51:23.000 Right.

00:51:24.000 Even if you're a lousy driver.

00:51:25.000 Yeah.

00:51:25.000 And even if you're a lousy driver or even if you're being transported to or from prison, the 405 doesn't discriminate.

00:51:32.000 It doesn't.

00:51:34.000 And that's what Google is now.

00:51:35.000 They're a delivery mechanism.

00:51:36.000 They're a highway.

00:51:37.000 And if you've committed murder, they can chase you on the 405 with helicopters.

00:51:40.000 Of course.

00:51:41.000 But the point is this, is that, and people say, well, it's a private company.

00:51:44.000 We can't infringe upon private property rights.

00:51:47.000 But we've done it before in our country's history.

00:51:49.000 I actually think we benefited from it.

00:51:51.000 We did it in the early 1900s.

00:51:53.000 Teddy Roosevelt broke up very big companies.

00:51:55.000 And I think it was the right time because we really did not understand industrialization in our country.

00:51:59.000 We did not have a literate population.

00:52:02.000 So because of that small collection of guys that actually loved their country, that weren't always abusing their monopolistic power, but they had it.

00:52:09.000 They were able to accumulate extraordinary amounts of power.

00:52:14.000 Some abused it, some didn't.

00:52:15.000 Andrew Carnegie, John D. Rockefeller, J.P. Morgan Chase, Leland Stanford earlier than that, who built the railroads out west.

00:52:22.000 And Teddy Roosevelt said, you know what?

00:52:24.000 Most of the population can't even read right now.

00:52:28.000 And let's try to have some sort of guardrails on the rampant massive industrialization because we went from agrarian-based economy to industrialization in 40 years.

00:52:38.000 And so, of course, you're going to have the people that are in the upper hierarchy be able to capitalize on the industrialization dramatically, right?

00:52:45.000 And that's not, there's, Roosevelt didn't take everything from them.

00:52:48.000 He just said, here are some limitations.

00:52:50.000 And a lot of Republicans said, oh, he made a mistake.

00:52:52.000 I was wrong.

00:52:52.000 I said, I don't know if that's true.

00:52:54.000 I actually think that that helped create the American middle class.

00:52:54.000 I don't.

00:52:57.000 I really do.

00:52:58.000 And pure libertarians look at it differently.

00:53:00.000 And I've read their books, and I don't agree with that.

00:53:03.000 And so we've done it all throughout our country.

00:53:06.000 We did it with AT ⁇ T, too.

00:53:07.000 ATT used to be the sole phone provider in the 40s, 50s, 60s, and 70s.

00:53:13.000 And we put on controls on them.

00:53:15.000 And I think that's a good thing.

00:53:18.000 What if someone had argued, well, Charlie, if it was flipped and you had conservative companies that were really trying to cancel out harmful ideas that would take us back towards socialism, would you feel the same way?

00:53:33.000 Oh, no doubt.

00:53:33.000 If they had this kind of megaplex of power.

00:53:36.000 Would you still want them broken up?

00:53:37.000 Because you agree with them.

00:53:37.000 Yes.

00:53:38.000 Yes.

00:53:40.000 Absolutely.

00:53:40.000 Yeah.

00:53:42.000 And it's not a bias selection issue.

00:53:46.000 If there is anything that has this kind of power and they're abusing that power, it should be called out, in my opinion.

00:53:52.000 And look, the conversation is this, which is, do you want a marketplace of discussion?

00:53:58.000 And absolutely, I do.

00:54:00.000 I love that.

00:54:01.000 And whether we like it or not, and the founders, the founders hated tyranny.

00:54:07.000 They wrote about it in the Federalist Papers.

00:54:09.000 And in the 1790s, early 1800s, when they were writing the Federalist Papers, the biggest, the most dangerous form of tyranny they could imagine was like King George 2.0, right?

00:54:18.000 Like another government.

00:54:20.000 What if King George is running Google?

00:54:23.000 Do you think the founders would be okay with that?

00:54:26.000 Just put the tyrant in charge of the thing that every one of your kids are looking at all the time.

00:54:31.000 Right. 0.86

00:54:32.000 That's tyranny.

00:54:34.000 So, you know, as a dad, you know, I'm saying to my kids, hey, check out this video.

00:54:41.000 Like, for instance, check out this video that I just saw from the American Frontline Doctors.

00:54:46.000 This is really fascinating.

00:54:47.000 It disappears.

00:54:48.000 And then it disappears.

00:54:50.000 And I say, wow, that got taken down.

00:54:52.000 Here's another link.

00:54:53.000 That one just got taken down.

00:54:54.000 Okay, here's a third link.

00:54:57.000 And sort of the universal reaction that I get from whether it's just my family or friends is they just kind of go like, wow, that's weird.

00:55:04.000 That's weird.

00:55:05.000 You know, that's, wow, what's that all about?

00:55:08.000 Oh, well, hey, let's, you know, let's go, let's go get a latte.

00:55:13.000 And you kind of move on going like, well, okay, so they deleted a video.

00:55:16.000 I guess maybe there's something wrong with it or something.

00:55:18.000 And so you kind of go, wait, wait, guys, time out.

00:55:23.000 This is like, stop the clock.

00:55:25.000 This is a big deal.

00:55:26.000 And obviously, that's why you're doing what you're doing.

00:55:29.000 But I think, what could you, what could you recommend to average families, dads like me, who's seeing this going like, what can we do?

00:55:39.000 What do you do?

00:55:40.000 Do you complain to somebody?

00:55:41.000 Do you stop using Google?

00:55:43.000 What do you do?

00:55:44.000 Yeah, I mean, there's a whole stop using Google movement.

00:55:46.000 I try to minimize it.

00:55:47.000 It's hard because I have a YouTube channel.

00:55:51.000 Yeah.

00:55:51.000 You know, and we get millions of views on it.

00:55:53.000 So, right.

00:55:54.000 I mean, I'm going to use these highways until they kick me off, right?

00:55:58.000 Because who knows how many minds I can impact while I'm doing it.

00:56:01.000 And I'm not arguing.

00:56:03.000 And if you've heard my language, I've not said that what these companies have done has been all negative.

00:56:08.000 I have not said that.

00:56:10.000 I've said they are abusing the power that was trusted with them to become tyrants, right?

00:56:16.000 So I'm not saying that what they have done has been a complete and total wrecking crew to American society.

00:56:24.000 I'm not.

00:56:25.000 But what can you do?

00:56:26.000 I mean, people say that all the time.

00:56:27.000 The first thing is you have to say something about it before you do something about it.

00:56:31.000 So, you know, vocalizing it and articulating it.

00:56:34.000 And also, you just kind of play it out.

00:56:35.000 I mean, where does this end?

00:56:37.000 Where does this stop?

00:56:38.000 And the question is, it doesn't.

00:56:39.000 You think that the autocrats are just going to stop being acting in this way because they will never stop because they find meaning in their suppression.

00:56:50.000 And then people say, well, Charlie, what can I possibly do to do something about all this tyranny everywhere?

00:56:55.000 And Rob, I'll let you start, then I'll finish.

00:57:00.000 What I find, just standing up in the small sphere of influence that I have been granted, the response I get from people who say, what can I do?

00:57:12.000 Before they ask that question, they typically tell me what I need to do.

00:57:17.000 What you need to do.

00:57:18.000 Yeah, I got a call today.

00:57:19.000 Oh, you're going to be on a podcast with Charlie Kirk.

00:57:21.000 He has access to people of influence.

00:57:23.000 I need you to have him tell the White House.

00:57:25.000 And that's how the entire conversation begins.

00:57:29.000 And they're looking for the answer to come in on Air Force One.

00:57:32.000 They're looking for the answers in the halls of government.

00:57:36.000 It's really simple.

00:57:36.000 What can you do?

00:57:39.000 Teach your family.

00:57:41.000 Yeah.

00:57:43.000 The education of your children belongs to you.

00:57:45.000 You are a steward of your children's life.

00:57:47.000 Guard them, watch it, and build community and start contending for your community.

00:57:54.000 Quit thinking that the answer is going to come from the highest levels.

00:57:58.000 The reason why they call Washington a swamp is because geographically it is.

00:58:02.000 And so Sacramento, by the way.

00:58:03.000 Geographically, it is a swamp.

00:58:05.000 But figuratively speaking, it's because they say that's where everything ends up.

00:58:09.000 That's the cesspool.

00:58:11.000 But if you want to change the swamp, you have to change the source.

00:58:14.000 And the source is always local.

00:58:17.000 Start awakening.

00:58:18.000 Have churches start taking responsibility for their communities and realizing that nobody's going to be enslaved on my watch.

00:58:26.000 And if every community, you light a thousand fires across the country that everyone starts taking responsibility for the communities, the swamp will change.

00:58:33.000 The swamp is 20 years down from the source.

00:58:36.000 And what we're seeing at the swamp is a result of what we stop doing in our homes.

00:58:40.000 I think you're right.

00:58:40.000 So if you want to change it, light a thousand fires.

00:58:43.000 Quit waiting for this guy over here to fix it for you.

00:58:46.000 Quit waiting for you to fix it in Hollywood.

00:58:48.000 Get off your duff and educate your kids.

00:58:51.000 Start demanding from your churches that they be engaged in the public square.

00:58:54.000 Start sitting in your school board meetings and start sitting in your council meetings.

00:58:58.000 Change your locality.

00:59:00.000 Throw your starfish back, the old analogy of all the starfish on the ocean, you can't make a difference.

00:59:05.000 You make a difference from the one in front of you.

00:59:07.000 Take responsibility because if you're waiting for someone else to do it, you're apathetic. 0.99

00:59:12.000 You're lazy.

00:59:13.000 No one's going to do it for you. 0.82

00:59:15.000 The only reason why we've gained any traction, you and me, is because we decided to stand in the sphere of influence in which we've been placed.

00:59:21.000 But it's come at great cost.

00:59:23.000 Now, the world would say great cost, but as you described, your life is wonderful.

00:59:27.000 So's mine.

00:59:28.000 Take everything I have.

00:59:29.000 My kids have everything they're ever going to need.

00:59:31.000 That's called character.

00:59:32.000 My dad, when he died, he left me with nothing financially, but he left me with everything I needed, character.

00:59:39.000 And that's let's give it to our families and start getting back to that and quit waiting for someone else to fix this.

00:59:45.000 Roll up your sleeves and get your button gear.

00:59:47.000 I love it.

00:59:48.000 And what I find, I mean, I travel a lot and people ask me that question all the time.

00:59:52.000 And I say, it's very similar to what Rob is.

00:59:56.000 They kind of want me to be the savior of all this.

01:00:00.000 And first, it's a ridiculous amount of pressure.

01:00:02.000 It's not going to happen at all.

01:00:04.000 I mean, it happens all the time Rob hears it all the time, right?

01:00:06.000 I mean, we were at a thing recently, and it was just okay.

01:00:10.000 Got it.

01:00:10.000 All right, I'm doing a lot.

01:00:12.000 And you have to do this.

01:00:13.000 You got to do this.

01:00:14.000 I'm like, oh, my gosh.

01:00:15.000 Maybe I do.

01:00:16.000 Okay, I'll think about it.

01:00:16.000 I'll pray about it.

01:00:17.000 My gosh.

01:00:18.000 In some ways, I want to say, like, what are you doing?

01:00:20.000 Exactly.

01:00:21.000 And then I ask the question to some of these people.

01:00:23.000 They're like, well, and I ask, what are you doing?

01:00:26.000 And they say, well, I'm not doing a lot.

01:00:28.000 Then I ask the very simple question: Do you think what you do matters?

01:00:32.000 And some people don't.

01:00:33.000 That's an actually very important point.

01:00:35.000 A lot of people are actually nihilistic on our side.

01:00:38.000 They really don't think that their behavior has any bearing on the world around them.

01:00:43.000 It's a very important realization I've come to recently.

01:00:43.000 They really do.

01:00:47.000 I think you're right.

01:00:48.000 And it even exists in the church.

01:00:49.000 And you know where it is?

01:00:50.000 Especially in the church.

01:00:52.000 I talked to somebody and I said, you know, I'm just, I'm so concerned to see how things are falling apart on our watch.

01:01:02.000 And this was a Christian person said to me, or as one of my friends told me, maybe things are not falling apart.

01:01:10.000 Maybe things are falling into place. 0.82

01:01:13.000 And just for those, those who are Christians know exactly what I'm talking about. 1.00

01:01:16.000 It's like an eschatological eschatological Tetris block that's just falling into place. 1.00

01:01:22.000 And maybe, I don't know, but it's also, it does breed, it's actually the worst in Christian circles. 1.00

01:01:28.000 The worst. 1.00

01:01:29.000 Yep.

01:01:29.000 More so than even in humanist circles.

01:01:32.000 See, the left actually believes what they do matters.

01:01:34.000 It's a very, very bizarre thing.

01:01:36.000 And Christians with that eschatology believe that we're polishing brass on the Titanic. 0.90

01:01:40.000 Jay Vernon McGee said it all the time. 0.92

01:01:40.000 Oh, yeah. 0.92

01:01:43.000 But that's why I got so fired up about the pilgrims.

01:01:46.000 I mean, think of them.

01:01:48.000 Think of them.

01:01:48.000 And they're over there in England.

01:01:50.000 And you've got King James and you've got Tyrant on steroids.

01:01:54.000 And the economy's shot.

01:01:56.000 He thinks he's God on earth.

01:01:57.000 He controls the church.

01:01:59.000 He controls the state.

01:02:00.000 If anyone were going to think that the world had come to an end, that everything is about to implode, it was them.

01:02:05.000 And they didn't tuck their head between their knees and say, it's over.

01:02:08.000 Everything's falling into place.

01:02:10.000 They said, let's get on a boat and go somewhere, make a 200-year plan, and change the world.

01:02:16.000 So that's the kind of guy I want to be.

01:02:18.000 And so I actually believe that everything that you do matters.

01:02:22.000 It might matter.

01:02:23.000 One thing might matter more than the other thing.

01:02:26.000 But what you eat, how you act, how you communicate, the language, your diction, it all matters.

01:02:32.000 And I'm not an over, I'm not a legalist.

01:02:33.000 Trust me.

01:02:34.000 That's not why I'm saying that.

01:02:35.000 I got accused of that when I say it.

01:02:36.000 I got this ridiculous email the other night because I said that recently at a church gathering. 0.85

01:02:41.000 And I got this ridiculous thing. 0.67

01:02:42.000 Charlie, you're engaging in the legalism, talking about human action too much.

01:02:46.000 I'm like, talking about too much?

01:02:48.000 Like, what are you talking about?

01:02:49.000 I mean, the whole thing is just, I completely reject it.

01:02:53.000 I mean, we should just get rid of the book of Proverbs if human action means nothing, in my opinion.

01:02:56.000 Yeah.

01:02:56.000 No, but this is a real thing, Rob.

01:02:58.000 I know.

01:02:58.000 It is.

01:02:59.000 And I'm just sighing because I get it too.

01:03:02.000 My mentor, the man I adore.

01:03:04.000 I'm sorry to interrupt you.

01:03:05.000 Oh, you're not interrupting me.

01:03:06.000 Add to it.

01:03:08.000 His comment to me was: biblically speaking, he said, you know, the house is on fire.

01:03:14.000 We just got to get the kids out.

01:03:16.000 And that's an eschatological view that, you know, the next thing on God's Day Planner is the rapture.

01:03:21.000 And, you know, the house is on fire.

01:03:23.000 We've got to get the kids out by evangelism.

01:03:25.000 My feeling is, no, no, put the fire out.

01:03:27.000 Put the fire out.

01:03:27.000 Yeah.

01:03:30.000 Where do you get to decide that this is the end of the world?

01:03:32.000 Well, it's the mark of the beast.

01:03:33.000 And Google is advanced on the.

01:03:35.000 I can go through history and show where people have said this.

01:03:38.000 In the 1200s, they said that.

01:03:39.000 It's not.

01:03:41.000 But that's another discussion.

01:03:43.000 And so, you know, and maybe they're right, maybe they're not. 0.95

01:03:46.000 I just think it's also, it's a ridiculous. 0.90

01:03:47.000 Who knows? 0.90

01:03:48.000 It's a ridiculously cocky thing to say that you happen to know that the stars are aligning. 0.97

01:03:54.000 I think it's ridiculous.

01:03:55.000 But anyway, so to complete the point, a lot the kind of, and I don't want to use nihilism, that's not the right word.

01:04:01.000 It's close, but it's not. 0.63

01:04:02.000 But a lot of Christians do engage into, they believe that their action is meaningless, and in fact, it is not necessary at all. 0.75

01:04:12.000 I'm contending against the eminent eminence of the end time.

01:04:17.000 But bizarrely enough, I know they don't actually believe it because they believe in me.

01:04:23.000 And so then I'm like, well, why do you want me to do it then?

01:04:25.000 Because then does what I do matter then?

01:04:27.000 Well, it's only going to keep them happier until the end.

01:04:30.000 That's the point.

01:04:30.000 So do the work for me.

01:04:31.000 The resetative is what it is.

01:04:32.000 Yeah, do the work for me.

01:04:33.000 So then it's like, hold on a second.

01:04:34.000 Then I should just stop.

01:04:35.000 And they're like, oh, no, I want you to keep going.

01:04:37.000 Hold on, why do you want me to keep going?

01:04:38.000 Is this a spectator sport?

01:04:39.000 Am I some sort of Coliseum act?

01:04:42.000 You know, before this whole thing gets thrown over.

01:04:45.000 So I actually do think that they think the contesting for truth matters.

01:04:51.000 And so I, again, call me traditionalist in this sense.

01:04:55.000 But when people say, what can I do?

01:04:57.000 I say, go live a better life.

01:04:59.000 And then go in every single micro-decision you go through, especially in today's time.

01:05:04.000 I said this recently, and I got more positive response than this, which is that in order for a macro-tyranny to exist, millions of micro-tyrannies must bubble up.

01:05:16.000 And so this happens all the time.

01:05:19.000 It happened throughout the 20th century, especially in the Soviet Union.

01:05:22.000 And we teach history incorrectly, and sometimes we don't teach it at all.

01:05:25.000 And it's not intentionally incorrectly, but I've been reading Joseph Bondarenko's book, USS SS Most Wanted or something at the SS. 0.65

01:05:33.000 KGB, wrong tyrant.

01:05:37.000 KGB's Most Wanted.

01:05:38.000 And what I realized is that the tyranny was in every part of the Soviet Union.

01:05:46.000 It wasn't just Stalin's country.

01:05:48.000 It wasn't.

01:05:49.000 It was that when Joseph Bondarenko, the Christian pastor at age 26, was locked up in prison because he was preaching the gospel all throughout what was then Ukraine and the Soviet Union in Eastern Europe.

01:06:00.000 Stalin didn't know who he was because he actually did most of his ministry when Stalin was dead.

01:06:05.000 Is the fact that, but even if Stalin was alive, the following leaders did.

01:06:09.000 The point is that the local baker, he acted like Stalin too, and he turned him in.

01:06:16.000 Yeah. 0.54

01:06:17.000 Yeah.

01:06:18.000 So all of a sudden, you start, you have the micro-tyrannies that bubble up into a manifestation.

01:06:23.000 Right.

01:06:24.000 So what we talk about, and it's incorrect, we act as if Stalin had this top-down tributary where all of a sudden then tyranny rained down, where it's not correct at all.

01:06:33.000 Maybe because there was lawlessness and godlessness, millions of tyrants allowed someone like Stalin to manifest. 0.54

01:06:40.000 And Stalin was actually the manifestation of the corrosive country that already existed.

01:06:47.000 And it's the complete opposite of how we teach it. 0.80

01:06:47.000 That's right. 0.80

01:06:50.000 We teach it as if Stalin turned the country when in reality, maybe the country was already there and Stalin was exactly where the country already was. 0.72

01:06:59.000 Exactly.

01:07:00.000 So then people say, well, what can I do?

01:07:03.000 I'm sorry, you're going to say something.

01:07:03.000 You go after.

01:07:04.000 No, just what you're saying.

01:07:05.000 And I've heard people say that, that the government is an externalization of the values of the culture.

01:07:11.000 Politicians are actors performing a script written by the audience.

01:07:13.000 Bingo. 0.63

01:07:15.000 So Stalin was tolerated because in St. Petersburg, 60 miles outside of St. Petersburg, the local carpenter for a village or the local dairy farmer, he himself was Stalin of that town. 0.61

01:07:32.000 Right. 0.69

01:07:33.000 Right.

01:07:33.000 And he was able to abuse people, turn them in, not allow God to be rewarded for it.

01:07:42.000 So Stalin's entire infrastructure was built around the idea. 0.67

01:07:46.000 And he was a delegator in this sense, that I'm going to multiply myself.

01:07:51.000 This is sounding like a multi-level marketing scheme, and you're selling tyranny.

01:07:55.000 Yeah. 0.95

01:07:55.000 And you got all your little minions under you. 0.95

01:07:57.000 And so then this is why I believe everything matters.

01:07:59.000 Everything we do matters.

01:08:01.000 Is that people say, ah, it doesn't matter.

01:08:01.000 Yeah.

01:08:02.000 What can I do?

01:08:03.000 I think people are way too focused on the presidency and way too focused on the Air Force.

01:08:07.000 One part of it, it's in Thousand Oaks, California, in your daily experience, who's the tyrant?

01:08:13.000 Who is it?

01:08:13.000 Because you know who it is.

01:08:14.000 I know who it is.

01:08:15.000 Right.

01:08:16.000 Exactly.

01:08:16.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:08:17.000 It could be in.

01:08:18.000 Stand up to the bully.

01:08:19.000 Chino, California.

01:08:20.000 And then people say, well, how do I do that?

01:08:21.000 Well, get your words right.

01:08:23.000 Straighten yourself out.

01:08:25.000 Look them in the eye.

01:08:26.000 It's a very important thing.

01:08:27.000 Don't get angry.

01:08:28.000 And just tell the truth.

01:08:31.000 And then do something about it.

01:08:32.000 Pull your kid out of that school.

01:08:34.000 Stop shopping at that store.

01:08:35.000 Tell the neighbor that they're cut off.

01:08:37.000 Don't wear your mask.

01:08:39.000 Whatever it is.

01:08:40.000 Yeah.

01:08:40.000 Right?

01:08:41.000 That's my words, not yours.

01:08:43.000 Whatever that micro-tyranny is, then stand up against it.

01:08:46.000 What happens then is those micro-tyrants will get very angry.

01:08:50.000 They'll try to find other people to join in their corrosive behavior and it'll fall apart very quickly.

01:08:57.000 And the narrative changes rapidly.

01:08:59.000 Like that.

01:09:00.000 Like that.

01:09:02.000 So that's what you could do.

01:09:04.000 I find it fascinating that we're sitting with you, Kurt, and we're talking about eschatology.

01:09:09.000 And I mean, your Christian walk is, God's taking you through some revisions.

01:09:13.000 What is eschatology, Rob?

01:09:15.000 Study at the end time.

01:09:16.000 No, it's okay.

01:09:16.000 Sorry.

01:09:17.000 It's Revelation.

01:09:17.000 We'd have to see that.

01:09:18.000 Yeah, Revelation, Daniel, Ezekiel.

01:09:20.000 How the world is.

01:09:21.000 End of the world stuff.

01:09:22.000 Yeah, end of the world stuff.

01:09:23.000 And, you know, there's been some changes in your walk, things that you once saw, where you are today. 0.85

01:09:31.000 And I think all of us kind of, Christianity is like a whole chicken.

01:09:37.000 You eat the meat and you spit out the bones. 0.60

01:09:38.000 You know, you got to figure out: are you pre-trib?

01:09:42.000 Are you post-trib?

01:09:43.000 You know, and you go through that.

01:09:44.000 And are you a Calvinist?

01:09:45.000 Are you an Arminianist?

01:09:48.000 And as we look at these things, I find it fascinating.

01:09:51.000 We're talking about the end times, and you acted.

01:09:54.000 You did a movie called the Definition.

01:09:55.000 Yeah, you defined.

01:09:56.000 Yeah.

01:09:57.000 Left behind.

01:09:57.000 I mean, talk about the rapture in that sense.

01:10:01.000 And yet, still doing that movie, here you and I are sitting with Charlie and we're contending to put out the fire.

01:10:10.000 That we're not acting as though the next thing on God's Day planner is the rapture.

01:10:15.000 We're not self-prophesying it into place.

01:10:18.000 We're not believing that we're polishing brass on the Titanic.

01:10:22.000 Well, and I just think you have to, in my opinion, sorry to interrupt, is just you have to have a little humility.

01:10:26.000 Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but I also think the Pascal's wager equivalent would be you must act as if it isn't, right?

01:10:36.000 You must ask.

01:10:37.000 Otherwise, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy and we'll bring the whole thing down.

01:10:40.000 That's exactly right.

01:10:41.000 So, I mean, the only, what if you're wrong?

01:10:44.000 What if we're actually a thousand years out or two thousand years out?

01:10:48.000 You should have a different plan.

01:10:49.000 Probably.

01:10:50.000 And I want civilization to continue.

01:10:52.000 And you have children.

01:10:53.000 You have grandchildren.

01:10:54.000 Right.

01:10:54.000 I'm sorry, Rob.

01:10:55.000 No, that's okay.

01:10:56.000 I was just going to say, I have evidence that they That pre-trib premillennial, which I happen to be a part of that, that they have taken it to the point where it's self-fulfilling prophecy.

01:11:09.000 They said, no, no, no, we're still working as though we don't know the day or the hour.

01:11:13.000 I don't believe it.

01:11:14.000 Because Calvary Chapel, of which I'm a part of, which is pre-trib premillennial, we've been in California since 1968.

01:11:21.000 We have had 10,000% growth, 1,800 churches around the world, all conversion growth, not transfer.

01:11:27.000 South of Van Euys, there's 350 Calvary Chapels, biggest churches in the country.

01:11:32.000 Three of the 10 largest churches in America, Calvary Chapels.

01:11:35.000 All right.

01:11:36.000 52 years we've been in California.

01:11:38.000 52 years.

01:11:41.000 What difference have we made?

01:11:44.000 Don't want to touch politics.

01:11:45.000 We don't touch politics.

01:11:46.000 So in 68, we had the fifth largest GDP.

01:11:49.000 We had Reagan as governor.

01:11:50.000 We're a conservative state.

01:11:51.000 It was a state of the future.

01:11:53.000 People were investing.

01:11:54.000 And we're 52 years into Calvary Chapel.

01:11:57.000 10,000% growth.

01:11:58.000 Church is saturating. 0.80

01:11:59.000 Big Christian sandbox in California. 0.98

01:12:01.000 Now we're not the fifth largest GDP. 0.99

01:12:03.000 We're probably the sixth.

01:12:04.000 We have the highest gas tax, sales tax, income tax, corporate tax.

01:12:07.000 We have the highest debt.

01:12:09.000 You combine the next four largest states' debt doesn't equal the debt of California.

01:12:13.000 We have the highest homelessness, highest poverty.

01:12:15.000 We're the authors of No Fault Divorce, Transgender Bathroom Bills, the most progressive, secular, progressive sexual education curriculum of any state in the nation, probably the world. 0.67

01:12:27.000 And we're the authors of No Fault Divorce, which decimated a marriage across the country. 0.61

01:12:31.000 But here's the kicker: we lead the nation in abortion.

01:12:37.000 We've aborted more children than the entire population of Canada.

01:12:41.000 And yet we've never had more buildings.

01:12:43.000 We've never seen more people raise their hands.

01:12:45.000 We've had crusades. 1.00

01:12:48.000 Where are we investing in the next generation?

01:12:50.000 Where are the schools that we've built?

01:12:54.000 Where are the governments we've influenced?

01:12:56.000 Where are the laws that we have used to stop this tyranny?

01:13:00.000 And we say that we really believe that we're supposed to stand in these precepts.

01:13:05.000 We've given up.

01:13:08.000 That's condemnation on my own denomination.

01:13:10.000 We're not a denomination, but that speaks for that's evidence.

01:13:14.000 That's empirical data.

01:13:17.000 Yeah, it's not said outright, but I think that's ultimately communicates, well, it's kind of a losing battle to try to change the culture or culture and recapture these kinds of values because we've read the end of the script.

01:13:32.000 We know what it says.

01:13:33.000 Well, and I think it's probably coming on Tuesday.

01:13:35.000 And I think that there's, it's such, it's such sloppy thinking, in my opinion.

01:13:40.000 So then I ask people the question where I believe in this kind of this, they're so committed to that specific eschatology and use it as an excuse for inaction.

01:13:49.000 And I've had these conversations and they say, well, it's all irrelevant.

01:13:52.000 It doesn't matter because we're all going to heaven, blah, blah, blah, those sort of stuff.

01:13:55.000 And I hear it a lot.

01:13:56.000 I said, well, let me ask you a question.

01:13:57.000 I say, are people going to be more or less likely to come to Christ if Fidel Castro takes over California?

01:14:05.000 No, that won't happen.

01:14:07.000 What are you talking about?

01:14:10.000 First of all, if you say it won't happen, all of a sudden you believe that there's some system that actually prevents tyranny.

01:14:14.000 But let's just take the example.

01:14:15.000 Do you think people will be more or less like to come to Christ?

01:14:17.000 Will they be more Christians or less Christians if a free society ceases to exist?

01:14:22.000 And there's never a good answer.

01:14:23.000 The point is this: if you actually care about the kingdom expanding and the gospel spreading, you should be fighting for civil society every single day.

01:14:32.000 I got to tell you an illustration.

01:14:34.000 This is burning in me.

01:14:37.000 When I was a youth minister in Santa Clara County, I was trained to be a speaker for the planned parent, or not, excuse me, for the pro-life organization there, the Crisis Pregnancy Center.

01:14:54.000 Excuse me.

01:14:55.000 I was speaking against Planned Parenthood.

01:14:56.000 I was speaking against Planned Parenthood.

01:14:58.000 Go in and speak on abstinence and life.

01:15:01.000 And I had access to every public school.

01:15:03.000 And I gave that talk over 300 times in different public schools all over Northern California.

01:15:11.000 And I do it all six of the health period classes.

01:15:14.000 And they'd let me come in.

01:15:15.000 And I learned how to communicate with these kids.

01:15:18.000 And they enjoyed me coming in.

01:15:21.000 And as I worked fervently on behalf of this, the one school I couldn't get into.

01:15:26.000 And I'll leave the school unnamed.

01:15:28.000 It was a Christian school.

01:15:29.000 No, it was a public school.

01:15:31.000 And the guy had invited me and he said, I've heard about you.

01:15:34.000 I want to get you in.

01:15:36.000 But the principal is just really struggling.

01:15:40.000 And he said, I've built up a relationship.

01:15:42.000 I used to be a missionary, but now I'm a teacher.

01:15:44.000 And he said, look, I've gotten access.

01:15:46.000 You can come in, but you're going to speak to the half of the student body that's not doing testing.

01:15:51.000 Meaning they were doing some sort of testing.

01:15:53.000 These are the ones that didn't qualify for whatever it was.

01:15:55.000 And I go into the school when I'm going in, there's metal detectors and they're checking me and the whole bit.

01:16:02.000 And I get into the school and the auditorium's packed and they were going to show him a Star Wars video or something.

01:16:07.000 And they're all up there and they say, hey, we're going to show you a video, but we got a guy from the Crisis Pregnancy Center who's going to talk to you about absence.

01:16:14.000 Here's Rob McCoy and have at it.

01:16:17.000 And there's like a fight breaking up in the upper right-hand corner of the bleachers and it's just chaos.

01:16:23.000 And I look at the one, the few kids who are in the front row looking at me and I just start with them and I get them to laugh.

01:16:28.000 And then these guys start kind of gave, and the inmates are running the asylum.

01:16:32.000 Teachers aren't doing anything.

01:16:33.000 I mean, they're going out of control.

01:16:35.000 And kids are cussing at me the whole bit.

01:16:37.000 I still, by the end of it, it was the hardest thing I've ever done.

01:16:40.000 I finally got a handle on the audience and they're laughing and they grasp the content.

01:16:44.000 But it was hard as can be.

01:16:45.000 And I turned to him, I said, how did this school get like this?

01:16:48.000 You've been here for years.

01:16:50.000 And he said this.

01:16:51.000 He said there was a professional football player that everyone knew.

01:16:56.000 And we had a huge, growing FCA organization.

01:17:00.000 Fellowship of Christianity.

01:17:01.000 Yeah, Fellowship of Christianity.

01:17:02.000 And it was growing rapidly.

01:17:03.000 And the principal allowed us to bring him in to invite them to this after-school.

01:17:07.000 But the one thing the principal said is you're not allowed to, you know, talk about the Bible and none of the Jesus stuff, but you can invite them.

01:17:16.000 And he's like, great.

01:17:18.000 This football player comes in.

01:17:20.000 First thing he does, he preaches the gospel, does an altar call, lays it out there.

01:17:25.000 20 kids come forward.

01:17:27.000 Like it's a big deal.

01:17:28.000 20 kids got saved.

01:17:29.000 I don't dismiss that.

01:17:29.000 And that's great.

01:17:32.000 But FCA got shut down and there wasn't a Christian presence for the remainder until the day I stepped in, like 12 years later. 1.00

01:17:41.000 And it was an asylum. 0.96

01:17:44.000 And my point for this whole story is this.

01:17:47.000 You have all these ministers who are refusing to stand up and open their churches.

01:17:52.000 And they're saying, you don't know how many people are coming to Christ over the live stream.

01:17:57.000 I got that.

01:17:58.000 But guess what?

01:17:59.000 They're going to shut you down just like they did that high school.

01:18:03.000 And you may think that you're having this amazing evangelistic opportunity, but it's over.

01:18:08.000 Unless you contend for freedom and get off your rear end and stand and push back with those tyrants, you're not going to have access to any of that anymore.

01:18:16.000 Ever.

01:18:18.000 Yeah.

01:18:18.000 So.

01:18:19.000 Wow.

01:18:21.000 Any closing thoughts, Kirk?

01:18:26.000 Well, my son, I'm so excited.

01:18:28.000 My son James is in the control booth over here, and he's just listening.

01:18:31.000 He's a good kid.

01:18:32.000 He's listening to us talk.

01:18:33.000 And it just makes this dad's heart feel so good.

01:18:35.000 It's awesome.

01:18:36.000 Knowing that he's hearing these truthful words coming from you guys.

01:18:38.000 And I'm so thankful for you both.

01:18:40.000 Thank you.

01:18:41.000 How can people learn more about you?

01:18:44.000 You could learn more about me if I posted more on my Facebook and Instagram.

01:18:49.000 But you could go there, and that's probably the best way.

01:18:51.000 I mean, I've got, you know, KirkCameron.com has pretty much got all the different projects I'm working on now.

01:18:57.000 Can you get a DVD or access to Monumental, the movie?

01:19:00.000 Yeah.

01:19:00.000 At kirkcameron.com?

01:19:02.000 You can go there and you can get access to getting one of those monuments themselves.

01:19:02.000 Yeah.

01:19:06.000 And you can also get the DVD.

01:19:09.000 But social media would be a good place to go to find out more current things.

01:19:14.000 I teach marriage and parenting conferences at so it's called Living Room Reset.

01:19:20.000 And in it, we talk about some of the things we're talking about right now and passing these values down to our kids.

01:19:25.000 Good.

01:19:26.000 Awesome.

01:19:27.000 Yeah.

01:19:27.000 Amen.

01:19:28.000 Rob, what's your Instagram?

01:19:30.000 Rob underscore McCoy underscore.

01:19:32.000 That's also my Twitter.

01:19:33.000 I think we're finally going to get that right.

01:19:34.000 Yeah, I got it down.

01:19:35.000 Everyone, email us, freedom at charliekirk.com.

01:19:38.000 Get involved with TurningPointUSA, tpusa.com.

01:19:40.000 Please consider supporting us at charliekirk.com/slash support.

01:19:44.000 Thanks so much, Kirk.

01:19:45.000 Rob?

01:19:45.000 Thank you.

01:19:46.000 Bless you, man.

01:19:46.000 Thanks, Charlie.

01:19:47.000 Talk to you soon.

01:19:49.000 Thank you guys so much for listening.

01:19:50.000 What a great episode that was.

01:19:51.000 And I encourage you right now to get involved with Turning Point USA.

01:19:54.000 Go to tpusa.com.

01:19:56.000 That is tpusa.com.

01:19:58.000 Get involved.

01:19:58.000 Get engaged.

01:20:00.000 Start a chapter at your university, at your high school, tpusa.com.

01:20:05.000 Check out professorwatchlist.org to find out the radical professors that might be teaching your kids and grandkids.

01:20:12.000 And thank you for supporting our program at charliekirk.com/slash support.

01:20:16.000 CharlieKirk.com/slash support.

01:20:18.000 Thank you guys so much for listening.

01:20:21.000 Tomorrow, we got two episodes, including an Ask Me Anything.

01:20:24.000 So email me your questions, freedom at charliekirk.com.

01:20:27.000 And if your question is selected, you get a signed copy of the New York Times bestseller, The MAGA Doctrine.

01:20:32.000 Thank you guys so much for listening.

01:20:34.000 God bless.

The Charlie Kirk Show - August 16, 2020

Embracing Political Action w- Kirk Cameron and Rob McCoy

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