00:03:18.000And what blew me away about this entire story is I really thought when I started pushing back on the Imperial College model, looking at its premise, its conclusions, the plot holes of data that existed within it.
00:03:33.000For example, the entire model is predicated on how it believes coronavirus will spread to the population while also admitting it doesn't know really how coronavirus spreads.
00:03:43.000Other than that, you know, this is some very sound logic.
00:03:47.000I really thought when I first started pushing back on this last year that it was going to be a proxy fight for global warming and it would still be, it would be the Charlie Kirks and Steve Dace's and Breitbarts and blazes of the world against academia, right?
00:04:02.000What really shocked me is the day after the Imperial College model came out, Dr. Sunitre Gupta at Oxford University was quoted in the pages of The Economist, a left-leaning publication, saying that this model is bunk.
00:04:21.000This should not be our policy here in the UK.
00:04:24.000The first weekend of lockdowns, you saw Dr. Tony Katz of Yale University in the pages of the New York Times saying locking down the healthy isn't the way to go.
00:04:34.000Michael Osterholm from the Center for Infectious Diseases at the University of Minnesota, now working in the Biden administration, wrote virtually the same thing the first weekend in the Washington Post.
00:04:45.000And as time went on, more and more experts from elite universities, Stanford University, before we even knew what a Scott Atlas was, they were conducting seroprevalence studies that showed a lot of the calculations we have about when this virus arrived and therefore when the curve began to rise are way off.
00:05:06.000Martin Koldorf, who helped design the VARES site for CDC out of Harvard University, I could give you lists and lists of names of experts at places.
00:05:15.000I mean, the entire Center for Evidence-Based Medicine at Oxford, that's the number one based, number one ranked university in the world, Charlie, according to U.S. News and World Report.
00:05:24.000Lots of academics who probably also believe there's 57 genders and the world's going to fry from global warming in 10 years, thought this was total and complete crap.
00:05:35.000And yet the entire world fell into this trap.
00:05:37.000The one country that didn't, Sweden, is the country that exported Greta Thunberg to the world, which just shows how crazy this is.
00:05:44.000And so we thought somebody needed to supply the average American with the real data that they're not being told by their media and by their so-called experts so they can get their country back.
00:05:54.000And that's what we have in the book, Fauci and Bargain.
00:05:57.000It has more footnotes than pages so that you can go and make the argument to your governors, your legislators, school boards, et cetera.
00:06:04.000So, first of all, the title is brilliant.
00:06:06.000It's a playoff of an idea, the Faustian bargain, which is basically a deal with the devil.
00:06:32.000But what you're getting at here is that an unelected, basically unknown technocrat was running all of our public policy decisions.
00:06:44.000And the picture, I think, embodies that because the person who people actually voted for, the person that is within our constitutional system, he's being manipulated and puppeteered by this sociopath.
00:06:58.000Talk to us about Dr. Fauci, the person, because that's actually what you lead with, right?
00:07:04.000And I want to get to the things you were talking about.
00:07:06.000But you say it's the most, he was the most powerful and dangerous bureaucrat in American history.
00:07:33.000Can I worship in my home with other people?
00:07:36.000Can I see my sick mom or grandmother or sick father, grandfather?
00:07:40.000There is no element of our lives that has gone untouched by the authority of Anthony Fauci without a single vote being cast, mail order or any other method.
00:08:27.000If we remove that thing from my brain, will I be a vegetable?
00:08:30.000Will I be able to get back to some form of normalcy?
00:08:33.000And then maybe you'll make the decision that living 10 years that way isn't as good as living out the next 18 months, still being able to love people and have them know and love you.
00:08:42.000I mean, those are the things with informed consent.
00:08:47.000And we've never been offered that this entire time.
00:08:49.000And on top of that, we've never been offered a second opinion.
00:08:52.000I mean, the idea that you immediately have to go under the knife, no matter how dire it is, and cannot get a second opinion, that is not how we operate here with our healthcare system.
00:09:01.000Yet we were denied hearing from these counter experts at these elite academic institutions.
00:09:17.000He's one of the longest serving bureaucrats currently in government.
00:09:21.000He's the highest paid bureaucrat currently in government.
00:09:24.000You cannot point, this isn't even Francis Collins, who he works with NIH, who mapped the human genome.
00:09:30.000Whether you think Francis Collins is right about COVID or not, and I don't, mapping the human genome is a pretty illustrious accomplishment, I would guess.
00:09:38.000And this is a rather unremarkable figure.
00:09:41.000This is not somebody, for example, that's anywhere near the name escapes me right now of the gentleman that was considered the Frenchman, who was considered the leading infectious disease expert until President Trump, unfortunately, mentioned his work on hydroxychloroquine, a Didier Riol.
00:09:59.000He was considered the world's foremost expert on infectious disease until he mentioned hydroxychloroquine and Trump quoted him and then suddenly he became a quack.
00:10:08.000You can't really point to anything like that with Anthony Fauci other than his work on AIDS.
00:10:12.000And originally he was highly criticized for not taking it seriously and sparking panics.
00:10:19.000So you don't remember when we all were told that we could get AIDS off a toilet seat at school, for example, all right?
00:10:25.000The panic that went on in the 1980s over that.
00:10:28.000Very similar in a way to what's going on with COVID, that it was going to spread into the heterosexual community and kill just as many heterosexuals as it did in the homosexual community, which of course never occurred.
00:10:39.000A lot of the same scare tactics and politicization of that virus went on with this one.
00:11:02.000If he were gone, another creature would have emerged from the black lagoon.
00:11:06.000Maybe it would have been Debbie bedazzle your face shield Burks and I get to visit my parents on Thanksgiving while I tell you to stay home.
00:12:04.000When in reality, this stuff actually is complicated, but the end result isn't that complicated, right?
00:12:11.000There's some very basic, you don't need just a very elementary understanding of chemistry and biology, science, math, and kind of risk analysis to make some of these decisions.
00:12:23.000And once you present these studies, they're not that hard to follow for smart people that just take the time.
00:12:37.000Because this is a very important point that you're making.
00:12:39.000I had to do this with my audience over with our podcast over at Blaze TV.
00:12:44.000I had to do this from the very beginning.
00:12:45.000I had to separate expertise from the worldview bias.
00:12:50.000And the analogy I gave my audience, Charlie, is if I go to the Grand Canyon, all right, I want to have, and I have a decorated geologist giving me a tour, the world's most renowned geologist.
00:13:01.000I'm going to be very honored to have him give me a tour and explain sediment formations and things that are beyond my area of expertise.
00:13:09.000And he's going to, and I'm going to defer to that expertise provided it stays in that realm.
00:13:14.000But then when he turns to me and says, and of course, we know that all of this majesty you're now gazing upon all happened because 20 billion years ago, one single-celled protein combined with an amino acid caused the Big Bang.
00:13:27.000And now through a series of natural random coincidences, billions of years later, here we are.
00:13:32.000That's what I'm going to call horsepucky because we moved beyond your expertise to your worldview bias.
00:13:40.000Where does the expertise end and the worldview bias began?
00:13:45.000Because again, we have been denied the fact there are lots of experts here with a counter opinion.
00:13:50.000Two weeks ago, Governor DeSantis hosted a conference.
00:13:53.000Experts from Harvard, Stanford, and Oxford.
00:13:57.000These are three universities 99.9% of this planet cannot get admitted to.
00:14:02.000And yet, some skinny gene-wearing algorithm, you know, avocado test, toast-obsessed, you know, algorithm runner at Facebook decided you could, or I'm sorry, YouTube decided he knew more about this than these people did.
00:14:28.000It's a real Hollywood movie with actors like John Voigt, a friend of mine, Stacey Dash, and John Schneider from Dukes of Hazard, Steve Guttenberg from Police Academy, and even L.A. Laws, Corbin Bernson.
00:14:37.000Not some boring movie about a court case.
00:14:40.000I was blown away to learn about how Planned Parenthood manipulated the courts and lied to the media back in the 70s, all for power and greed.
00:14:46.000And this was a mass conspiracy, including the corruption of Supreme Court justices.
00:14:51.000Literally the most famous court case in American history that everyone has heard about, but no one knew anything about.
00:15:14.000And I will say, though, that there is a conversation stopper, especially in medicine.
00:15:19.000And it's something that has to change in these upper middle class communities.
00:15:24.000And I was raised in one of those in the suburbs of Chicago.
00:15:27.000And visiting back, it is this incantation.
00:15:31.000Well, the doctors and the science say.
00:15:34.000And there is no discussion past that at all.
00:15:37.000It doesn't matter if you say, well, I could tell you that I think hydroxychloroquine is working with this friend I gave it to, and all of a sudden they saw rapid change.
00:15:48.000It is submitted, signed, sealed, and bloomers.
00:15:51.000This kind of untouchable new kind of cable pundit that we were introduced to in the last year that I think the left is only going to use against us more, which is why I want to just thank you for your book.
00:16:03.000If we do not call BS on this new authority figure that is never really, you're right.
00:16:10.000The AIDS thing is a good example, but this is a whole new phenomenon: the restriction of freedom and liberty because I have a title that I'm a doctor and I'm going to go do 100 cable news hits and all of a sudden I could turn off the American project.
00:16:24.000Number two, and I'm sure you talk about this in your book, is that we are living in an extra constitutional state where Dr. Anthony Fauci, you're right.
00:16:37.000If he would have been replaced, it would have just been, there could have been someone even worse.
00:16:42.000I know it's hard for people to believe, but there might have been someone even more power-hungry than Fauci and even more sociopathic.
00:16:49.000Do you talk about that in the book about how we're in this extra constitutional moment?
00:17:12.000You've got to give people a villain to rally against.
00:17:15.000But understand that Anthony Fauci is a hydra.
00:17:20.000If you know the mythological reference, you cut the head off.
00:17:23.000There will be another one to take its place.
00:17:25.000And we get into that in the very beginning of the book.
00:17:28.000We quote from President Eisenhower's farewell address.
00:17:31.000And a lot of times the fear of the military-industrial complex that he talks about has been quoted so many times.
00:17:37.000But there's another aspect of that farewell address where he warns the American people about the rise of essentially tyranny of the expert class.
00:17:44.000That we're on the cutting edge of scientific, post-World War II, scientific advancements never seen before in human history.
00:18:27.000So then the third thing that I'm not sure if you talk about, and I say this as a supporter of President Trump, he should have gone scorched earth on these people early.
00:18:35.000He should have quarantined himself from these medical experts and he should have had the right people like Scott Atlas around him early.
00:18:42.000Now, the only danger to that is that Fauci and these people would have been on cable television blaming him even more for all these deaths, but they were doing that anyway.
00:18:52.000And so I don't think that that could have been any worse than it was.
00:18:57.000That's the only counter argument that I've heard is like, well, Charlie, we would have created this whole kind of like dissident kind of, you know, it would have, it helped to have him close and then they didn't totally turn against us.
00:19:08.000I'm not totally sure that's a good argument.
00:19:11.000Do you think that there should have been at least some separation from this kind of permanent bureaucratic medical establishment and the president?
00:19:21.000From the very beginning, I thought 15 days to flatten the curve was a terrible idea, but I think mercy can triumph over judgment given the fact that We were also being told from our intelligence sources, you couldn't trust what we were hearing from China and the WHO.
00:19:39.000Amazingly, that tweet from last January 31st that the Chinese confirm there's no human-to-human transmission of coronavirus on the WHO Twitter account is actually still up.
00:19:50.000They don't even have the self-awareness to delete that tweet.
00:19:57.000So I think we can all not backseat drive and Monday morning quarterback to the point of giving every elected leader the benefit of the doubt for that first 15 days.
00:20:09.000Where I think this thing went off the rails was the 30 days to slow the spread.
00:20:13.000That is where the blue state governor said, thank you for the precedent.
00:20:43.000And I think that's where the narrative to this was lost.
00:20:46.000If we could go back in time, hop in the DeLorean and go back in time.
00:20:50.000And I have had, and I mean, I'm not, wasn't as well connected in that world as you were, but there are several people that worked in the Trump White House, even at a high level, Hogan Gigley, Kellyanne Conway, that I had relationships with prior to the Trump White House.
00:21:03.000And I've always been hesitant about tapping into those because part of my job also is to be at least somewhat objective in my analysis.
00:21:14.000And it's hard to do that with personal relationships.
00:21:17.000And then, you know, your friends feel like you kind of turned on them.
00:21:20.000So I've always viewed it maybe when they're in active office, like we just put the friendship on hold.
00:21:49.000Do you know what Carnegie Mellon, where Carnegie Mellon University, Rockefeller University, these are all places that are pushing back on this narrative?
00:21:57.000The 30 days to slow the spread, if we could do one thing differently, it would have been before they gave up during those first 15 days, Charlie.
00:22:04.000The president should have gone wisdom in a multitude of councils, I quote Proverbs, brought all of these experts in.
00:22:10.000All right, hey, we took a timeout like in a college basketball game.
00:22:41.000We're going to put an expert steel cage match, and you guys go back and forth with each other, and the best ideas are coming out of that room.
00:22:52.000And I think by the time they figured out that Fauci was utilizing them for whatever his ultimate purpose is, and that this was a scam, he had been permitted to use the platform of the White House to build himself up into an almost mythological status.
00:23:20.000This is what's different maybe with guys like you and I, because we've been a part of and worked on campaigns.
00:23:24.000It's not so, you know, I'm an ID log, but it's different when you've been on a campaign and you see how the nuts and bolts of the process and how minds are really made up.
00:23:33.000And you understand it's not as cut and dry of a process that it is from the outside.
00:23:38.000But they could have found a point of diminishing returns earlier.
00:23:43.000I mean, I'm emailing, I'm emailing Jenny Thomas, Clarence Thomas's wife, who's got, who counts Mike Pence as a friend and things of that nature.
00:23:52.000Hey, see if they know who, and this is his task force, right?
00:24:05.000I would argue it wasn't until the president got COVID himself, got treated with things like Regeneron and came out of the hospital that he actually got on the narrative that he should have been on probably in July and August to push back more successfully on the teachers' unions.
00:24:20.000They just, once they got behind the curve, Charlie, with 30 days to slow the spread, they just could never get ahead of the narrative again after that.
00:24:26.000Yeah, and it always should have been focused on therapeutics, not lockdowns and this vaccination stuff.
00:24:34.000No one actually believed it in the sense of it wasn't going to happen anytime soon.
00:24:39.000And the whole framing should have always been, we're in a political moment.
00:24:42.000Are we going to use this as a chance to get four more years or to lose miserably?
00:24:47.000And I know a lot of people that were making those decisions.
00:24:51.000And I say this as obviously a loyal supporter, right?
00:24:55.000I just, I was very frustrated with some of that.
00:24:57.000And so now I want to focus on a positive of this because I think that if this would have been handled on a federal level, like someone handled it on a state level, then I think things could have been a lot different.
00:25:08.000And so one of the aspects of our country that made us not like the rest of the world is the fact that we have a state-based system, the fact that there was a difference between Charlie Baker and Ron DeSantis.
00:25:20.000Ron DeSantis is the quote on the front of your book.
00:25:34.000It's funny when we were requesting to get Governor DeSantis' endorsement for the book, and I anticipated it would be something fairly benign if we got one.
00:25:46.000But instead, he went right after Fauciism.
00:25:50.000He's using that term as if it's just mere theorizing or sociopathic malevolent BSing, which is what I think it is.
00:26:01.000And what he went after was what does the data show?
00:26:04.000He actually, you know, this may be the only time I'm going to say in the last year or so, let me defend Anthony Fauci on something.
00:26:12.000But the other day when he was being questioned by Jim Jordan, and I felt like, you know, the House Freedom Caucus bought 5,000 copies of this book to spread around.
00:26:21.000So I wonder if Jim's had a chance to look at it or read it.
00:26:24.000Because he was grilling Anthony Fauci pretty hard, which I enjoyed.
00:26:27.000But he asked him where he balanced the Constitution with all of this.
00:26:32.000I would actually argue that's really not his job.
00:26:35.000I mean, if you and I have a serious Elm ailment, we don't want our doctor balancing treatment on the base of what he thinks the insurance company will cover, right?
00:26:46.000I mean, someone's got to pay for this.
00:26:47.000But we want him in that role, his highest motivation to be, how do I get well?
00:26:53.000And so I don't think it was necessarily Fauci's job to balance the constitutional aspects of this.
00:26:59.000I think it was his job to look at contrary data to his own narrative and seek counsel outside of his own narrative, which he didn't do.
00:27:06.000I think it was actually the governor's and the executives' jobs, the mayor's jobs, the people who sit in executive offices in the executive branch.
00:27:14.000It was their job to consider the broader implications of this, which is, you know, if we shut down hospitals for this long, here's one of the stats in our book that's going to blow people away.
00:27:23.000Last year, hospitalizations in America, Charlie, were actually collectively 8% lower than pre-COVID industry forecasts heading into the year 2020.
00:27:36.000It means people didn't go in for cancer screenings like they used to.
00:27:39.000People didn't go in for a lot of preventative things, heart disease screenings.
00:27:43.000That's the number one killer in our culture, over 600 deaths a year.
00:27:46.000How did we come up with these vaccines so fast?
00:27:49.000Well, it wasn't just the funding, but I'll bet you that these cutting-edge pharmaceutical companies took their entire RD departments and put them on COVID vaccinations, which means we also lost a year of cutting-edge cancer treatments and therapies and exploration.
00:28:04.000We lost a year of virtually everything in this process because there was no balance brought to it.
00:28:09.000We were told this is Captain Tripp's, it's the walking dead.
00:28:12.000We have to do something about this right now.
00:28:14.000It's important to do something about this right now, but what's the downside?
00:28:18.000What's the law of unintended consequences here?
00:28:20.000And that's really the job of elected officials to do that on our behalf.
00:28:24.000If we shut schools down for a year, what do we do in terms of childhood development?
00:28:30.000What does that do in terms of the mental health of both the parents and the students?
00:28:34.000No one asked any of those kinds of questions, really, until a few governors.
00:28:39.000I would argue our governor here, where I live in Iowa, Kim Reynolds, did a lot of this from the very beginning.
00:28:44.000Now, what helped her, I think, is the fact that we also here in Iowa help feed most of the world with the ag industry.
00:28:50.000You shut us down, millions and millions of people all over the world are going to starve.
00:28:54.000And so, Kim kind of had an incentive built in to push back against this like a lot of other governors didn't.
00:29:00.000But in Ron DeSantis' case, I mean, you're talking about the ultimate swing state.
00:29:04.000The last 11 presidential elections in Florida have been decided by an average of two and a half points.
00:29:09.000So, Trump winning by four and a half points is a veritable landslide in that state.
00:29:13.000Guy won by 40,000 or 50,000 votes, I believe.
00:29:17.000You're also talking about the second largest elderly population in America.
00:29:21.000If there was ever a Republican who could have justified being just a complete wimp and punking out on this, it would have been Ron DeSantis under those circumstances.
00:29:30.000But instead, he followed the data and the science and went contrarian against everyone else instead because he followed data and science.
00:29:40.000And too many of our executives still aren't doing that.
00:29:45.000Charlie Kirk here, and I've warned you about home title theft, where cyber thieves remove you from your homes title and you become the owner.
00:29:53.000Like I said, you better get home title lock because it's coming.
00:29:56.000Well, if you are on Facebook, that big data breach is here.
00:30:01.000Facebook has 500 million accounts that were exposed to cyber thieves.
00:30:05.000And according to a retired FBI cyber crime expert, everything thieves need to take over as the new owner of your home is leaked.
00:30:10.000Name, address, personal information, and more.
00:30:39.000Protect yourself, protect your family, protect your well-being at home, titlelock.com, promo code radio.
00:30:49.000And he had courage, too, which is he was unafraid of what they would call him, and he persisted nonetheless.
00:30:54.000And he has a success story to show for it, where the rest of the many of the other states, like Ohio and Massachusetts, with Republican governors, have been a complete and total disaster.
00:31:04.000I mean, Ron has been amazing on almost every single one of these other issues.
00:31:08.000So, Steve, I want to close on this thought.
00:31:27.000You know, there's an old, there's an old proverb, a Japanese business proverb when they were competing against us head-to-head in the auto industry in the 80s, and they used to say to each other, Americans don't have the time to do the job right the first time, but they certainly find the time to do the job over again.
00:31:43.000And you heard Anthony Fauci was just, and I'm sure this was not an innocent question.
00:31:48.000Just out of nowhere, asked by Dana Bash on CNN over the weekend: is gun violence a public health situation?
00:31:55.000Last week, the head of the CEDC referred to non or lack of wokeism as a public health problem.
00:32:02.000They figured out, you know, they've been trying to, all these culture war issues that have been so divisive for decades in America, where we have strong feelings, and I have my own, from gay marriage to abortion, things of that nature.
00:32:13.000And yet, despite them, we still found the opportunity to share Americana together, sporting events, church, things of that nature, schools.
00:32:22.000They couldn't, the spirit of the age could not figure out what do we have to do to make this personal.
00:32:28.000So, on a house-to-house, street-by-street basis, you won't go out of your home because Karen in the cul-de-sac will make your life a living hell if you do without a mask.
00:33:27.000We are going to have woke passports where you are not allowed to stay at certain Marriott or Hilton hotels if you have not gone through critical race theory training.
00:33:37.000I don't Imperial College's biggest benefactor, and this is mentioned in the book as well.
00:33:42.000The biggest benefactor of Imperial College, which was the original model, it's funny, the UK was originally going to pursue a Swedish model.
00:33:49.000And then the Imperial College model came up, and then Boris Johnson has done lost his damn mind ever since.
00:33:54.000Well, the Imperial College, one of its biggest benefactors, is a man named Jeremy Grantham.
00:34:00.000Jeremy Grantham is a multi-billionaire.
00:34:02.000He has donated over 80% of his wealth to stopping what he calls the 250-year bubble caused by fossil fuels.
00:34:10.000He is a radical AOC-style environmentalist, which is why when you read the Imperial College model, all of their solutions to this are proto-versions of a reset of a Green New Deal.
00:34:24.000In fact, shortly after the Imperial College model came out, they came out with another paper, which got almost no fanfare, saying that this is now our opportunity to reinstitute, reinitiate Western civilization in a more environmentally friendly way.
00:34:39.000And I think that should also be something audiences like ours need to be aware of.
00:34:43.000That look how quickly COVID shows up, whether it came from a Chinese lab or we just got Wuhan for luck one day at a wet market, or maybe it came from the natural world, but they were trying to alter it.
00:34:56.000But regardless of its origins, once it got airborne into the general population, look how fast the spirit of the age had multiple sectors within its operation mobilized to act on this right away.
00:35:09.000It took 10 minutes for Bill Gates to be on TV talking about vaccinations and boosters.
00:35:17.000And that's the other thing to keep in mind.
00:35:18.000If it wasn't coronavirus, they just would have pounced on something else.
00:35:22.000It just so happens this one was especially different, and it just lended itself to every imaginable totalitarian and tyrannical impulse out there.
00:35:34.000Every single thing is that because no one wants to die, and they are willing to give up everything if they think that the person in charge is going to keep them safe.
00:35:46.000Safetyism versus liberty, which is unfortunately, we let this happen.
00:35:50.000And so I guess my final, final, final question, Steve, is what can people do about this?
00:36:38.000People are like, Charlie, I do my own little silent protests when I walk through the grocery store with my mask on my chin, not in my mouth.
00:36:44.000I'm like, that's not going to save the West.
00:36:48.000You know, information is the ultimate weapon of mass destruction.
00:36:52.000Whoever controls the flow of information has control.
00:36:56.000One of the seminal dates in Western civilization is All Hallows Eve, 1517.
00:37:00.000And that is the date a little Augustinian, a cranky little Augustinian monk named Martin Luther went to the doors of his seminary in Wittenberg and nailed 95 Theses to a door.
00:37:10.000Now, he had no idea what this information, then he had it printed on Gutenberg's printing press and started sharing it.
00:37:16.000He had no idea ultimately that putting that information into people's hands would change the course of Western civilization, which it did.
00:37:24.000And 500 years later, when the History Channel did their most important people of the Millennium, he was number two on the list.
00:38:18.000A triple-braided cord is tougher to break.
00:38:21.000Have the confidence in the information in this book that the data is on your side.
00:38:26.000One of the mic drop pieces of data in the entire book.
00:38:30.000So Sweden last year did one short lockdown at the end of the year, and their version of lockdown was a 10 o'clock curfew for restaurants and bars.
00:38:39.000They have the lowest mass compliance in the European Union.
00:38:43.000Last year, Sweden had 8% higher excess deaths than its previous four-year average.
00:38:48.000The rest of the European Union that all did lockdowns and masks averaged 12 to 18% higher excess deaths compared to their four-year average.
00:39:25.000We should be a nation of political will, and Republicans better start using whatever political power you have before the time runs out to protect first principles because this idea that we're going to, we are going to, we are even going to entertain what happened in this last year as acceptable is so beyond reprehensible to me.