00:00:35.000We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
00:01:33.000Two men, Adam Fox and Barry Croft Jr., have just been found guilty in the Michigan Governor Whitmer kidnapping plot.
00:01:42.000The same plot that I think to everybody out there looking at this looks like an FBI entrapment operation, where the majority of people that were involved in this thing were actually FBI agents themselves.
00:01:55.000And we've got the great, none other than the great Julie Kelly on to respond to this, to break it down, and to understand why exactly it is that we're putting the FBI on the table and deciding what should be done with this, because we are the people in this country, not the bureaucracy.
00:02:12.000We are not ruled by them and we will not be.
00:02:14.000Julie Kelly, I'd love to get your response on this.
00:02:18.000I'm stunned, quite frankly, infuriated, because I'll tell you what, Jack, I followed the first trial in April very closely.
00:02:26.000These same two men, a jury could not come reach a verdict.
00:02:30.000Their two defendants were outright acquitted after their attorneys successfully convinced the jury that they had been entrapped by the FBI.
00:02:38.000So fast forward April to August, what's changed?
00:03:12.000The judge in this case last week limited the defense attorney's cross-examination of two government witnesses, two men who pleaded guilty, cooperating witnesses.
00:03:23.000They were supposed to be part of this kidnapping conspiracy, limited their cross-examination time.
00:03:31.000It's never really done in criminal cases.
00:03:33.000I was hearing from attorneys who were shocked at this.
00:03:36.000So he was basically informing the jury that he was going to limit.
00:03:42.000He continued to interrupt the defense.
00:03:44.000At one point, after the jury left, he scolded defense attorneys for wasting the jurors' time on quote unquote crap, their line of questioning and evidence.
00:03:53.000I mean, this was just such a flagrant example.
00:03:56.000The federal judge realizing the political stakes and favorite doing whatever he could to help the government make their extremely weak case that these men were guilty of conspiring to kidnap Gretchen Whitmer.
00:04:10.000So let me go through that a little bit more because you're saying that the judge in this case, keep in mind, these guys have already gone through one trial.
00:04:19.000They couldn't get the jury to agree on these charges because they looked at the thing and the jurors were saying, and keep in mind, and Julie, you more than anyone else, also Revolver.news, the great Garabiti has gone through all this.
00:04:31.000I've read the text messages that were going through on this.
00:04:34.000And I say this as a prior intelligence officer, that I get what they were doing.
00:04:38.000Okay, they were trying, they were looking at this as if it was some kind of game.
00:04:42.000This is what the FBI agents were doing.
00:04:44.000They were looking at this as if it was a game and they wanted to rack up as many points as they could.
00:04:49.000But those points are actual human beings, ruined their lives, entrap them in this thing, get them to just, they walk them up to the line, and then they push them just a little bit over, and suddenly you're done.
00:05:23.000In the first and second trial, there are hundreds of incriminating text messages, communications between their FBI handlers and FBI informants.
00:05:31.000This judge in the first trial and then the second trial again refused to let the jury to see those texts, which lays out this elaborate, detailed entrapment operation.
00:05:45.000You're saying that those text messages that I've read, that you've read, that anybody can go read about that lay out the fact that this was an entrapment operation, the jury wasn't even allowed to see those.
00:05:57.000The overwhelming majority, the jury was not allowed to see.
00:06:01.000So the infamous text about mission is to kill the governor specifically related to what the FBI wanted to do, not just in Michigan, but in Virginia.
00:06:18.000There were a thousand hours of recorded conversations between FBI informants and their targets.
00:06:25.000The government played less than two hours of those clips.
00:06:30.000But the government said, well, if the defense wants to see them, you know, they can go, well, you had a judge who was already rigging this from the beginning.
00:06:37.000So then fast forward to the second trial, everyone is stunned.
00:06:41.000The government never loses cases like this.
00:06:43.000Not a single conviction in the April trial.
00:06:45.000The judge realizes the political importance.
00:06:48.000He has the same rulings, denying the juries the opportunity to see those texts.
00:06:55.000And also now limiting cross-examination of the government witnesses, limiting jury selection to one day, which a lot of legal experts were very surprised at.
00:07:05.000He let on the jury a woman who outright said that guns scare her, people who have guns scare her.
00:08:30.000I'm not an attorney, but you don't have to be to see the basis on numerous levels, how an appeal would be allowed simply by this judge's conduct in the trial and the rulings that he made, and especially limiting cross-examination, which the judge admitted he's never done before.
00:08:47.000And as I said, I've heard from attorneys who have never seen that in a criminal case, especially one as important as a domestic terror investigation, one of the biggest ones in DOJ's history.
00:09:00.000But look, the bottom line is you have two innocent men who are entrapped by this FBI who've already been incarcerated since October of 2020, will languish in jail for at least a few more years before this appeal ever makes it to the appellate court.
00:09:30.000They did not send a sentencing date yet, but both men faced life in prison.
00:09:35.000And they had two defendants who pleaded their co-defendants, original co-defendants, who pleaded guilty, of course, for much lower sentencing promises by DOJ, also promises that they would not bring additional charges to the two men who pleaded guilty, which were the two men who the judge limited cross-examination of.
00:09:53.000I mean, this is a mess from beginning to end, but such a travesty of justice and a green light for this FBI and DOJ to do it all over again.
00:10:04.000You said that the judge was limiting the defense and wouldn't even allow a full cross-examination of the other, I guess you could have said they were co-conspirators at the time.
00:10:15.000They weren't even allowed to get a full cross-examination in front of the jury.
00:10:19.000These were the guys who were supposedly in on the plot.
00:10:22.000If we were, you know, if we're just seeking justice here, wouldn't that want to be the people you questioned the most?
00:10:48.000He's not limiting, you know, Joe Blow, the explosives expert from the FBI or fingerprint expert or whoever.
00:10:54.000He limited the time for the two most important witnesses, the two men who were supposed to be conspiring with these two other defendants to kidnap Gretchen Whitmer.
00:11:05.000And so when the jury left that day and both defense attorneys said to the judge, this is a 6A violation, unconstitutional, unfair.
00:11:15.000The jury deserves to hear exactly what sweetened deals these defendants were getting.
00:11:19.000They need to fully vet any connection.
00:11:22.000These two men who pleaded guilty, Ty Garbin and Caleb Franks, had no connection to Barry Croft or Adam Fox.
00:11:29.000Adam Fox and Barry Croft, the two men found guilty today, Jack, live 800 miles apart.
00:11:36.000The first time they met was at a national militia conference in Ohio in June of 2020.
00:11:43.000A man named Steve Robeson, a longtime convicted felon, longtime FBI informant, who organized this conference and invited all of these FB's targets to the conference.
00:12:05.000Building a bomb, blowing up a bridge outside of Gretchen Whitmer's vacation cottage in Elk Rapids, far north, Michigan, blowing up a bridge, going to her cottage, killing her security detail, abducting her from her cottage, taking her to a boat, putting her in the middle of Lake Michigan in October.
00:12:25.000I've lived by Lake Michigan my entire life, either leaving her in the middle of the lake or taking her all across across the lake to Wisconsin.
00:12:32.000This is what the guy who lives in the basement of a vacuum repair shop.
00:12:38.000That's what he was supposed to do with the guy who lives 800 miles away.
00:12:42.000The whole thing is inconceivable from the start.
00:13:25.000This is a climate that has infected every single field office.
00:13:30.000These are the same agents who are busting down the doors of American citizens and arresting them, aiming their rifles at children and elderly women.
00:13:42.000It has to be completely dismantled and exposed for the corruption and things that happen, like what happened in this Whitmer fednapping case.
00:13:50.000I want to see, and I've said this for years, a new church committee.
00:13:53.000Julie Kelly, where can people get access to your writings?
00:14:04.000Thank you so much for your work, for everything that you've done to put this together to really expose more than anybody, not only this case, your work with the Gen 6 detainees, explaining that absolute travesty, miscarriage of justice that we've seen right here in Washington, D.C. How many years have I been telling you about Relief Factor?
00:14:24.000Producer Andrew's right here doing an Iron Man thanks to Relief Factor.
00:14:27.000And truth is, I know there are millions of people.
00:14:29.000In fact, some say over 100 million people struggling with some kind of pain, maybe from exercise or just getting older.
00:14:35.000That can do it, getting older, which is why I'm so impressed with the people at relieffactor.com.
00:14:40.000You rarely see this kind of focus and commitment.
00:14:42.000They recently shared with me that they are doubling down and want to literally double their total number of happy customers in the next year.
00:14:50.000If you're struggling with back pain, neck pain, shoulder, hip, or knee pain, even general muscle aches and pain, then I'm suggesting you order their three-week quick start, still discounted, only $19.95.
00:15:50.000You've got the receipts on the back and forth between Trump, Mar-a-Lago, the FBI, the White House counsel, the National Archives.
00:15:59.000If I have everyone in there, this idea that they're not invoking, the Biden administration not invoking executive privilege for the first time ever.
00:16:06.000But then, also, I want to ask you from the angle of the FBI and the fact that they're doing this.
00:16:10.000Yeah, well, listen, it's clear to me now when you look at this, and I've talked to a lot of career FBI officials, people retired now, saying, Hey, they try to jump the fence on this.
00:16:18.000The normal process would be you drop a grand jury subpoena on President Trump.
00:16:22.000He decides if he's going to comply if he contests for executive privilege.
00:16:25.000You go to court, you let the judge work it up.
00:16:27.000The FBI decided they wanted to jump the fence on this.
00:16:29.000What they wanted to do was they wanted to get ahead of this and take the privilege off the table by having the current president, Joe Biden, waive the privilege for the former president, even though it covers conversations that when Trump was in president.
00:16:42.000So, they jump the fence, they try to cut corners on this.
00:16:45.000What you see at this is at the ignition point of this investigation, this investigation is ignited in April of this year.
00:16:52.000The Justice Department, the White House for Joe Biden, and the National Archives are all working together with the FBI.
00:16:58.000And the first decision Joe Biden makes that's consequential is: I'm going to let the National Archives send the materials of my predecessor, Donald Trump, to the FBI to start a criminal investigation.
00:19:38.000National Archives, FBI Justice Department, Clinton White House, excuse me, Biden White House, they're all working together and Donald Trump is the loser in that.
00:19:47.000It seems like what they're trying to do, and you and I were talking about this off air a little bit earlier.
00:19:51.000It seems to me like what they're trying to do is not only usurp the power of this one president, but of all presidents.
00:19:59.000It's like they're trying to remove Article 2 from our Constitution so that you have a legislator that only exists as a rubber stamp for money.
00:20:06.000You have a judiciary that, of course, they're very upset that we've taken the judiciary from them.
00:20:11.000They're trying to reform it and repack it and do whatever they can.
00:20:15.000But they want the bureaucracy, the permanent administrative state, to be the actual vessel driving policy and driving decisions in the United States and eliminate the power.
00:20:26.000I mean, you look at the current president.
00:20:28.000This guy doesn't seem like he's making any decisions on his own.
00:20:34.000Have we created a fourth branch of government called the bureaucracy?
00:20:36.000And I think the last six years of history raised some very serious questions about that.
00:20:41.000But if you're a former president or if you're a person thinking of running for president in the future, what Joe Biden did just created an enormous threat to your ability to get candidate advice.
00:20:51.000Because what we now have, the Biden precedent for this is you can beat the guy in office and then you can go leak his documents.
00:20:58.000You can go put them out there, just get rid of the privilege that's there.
00:21:00.000So think about the next Republican president.
00:21:02.000The next Republican president can go back and say that executive publish that Barack Obama claimed over Fast and Furious, gone.
00:21:43.000And at the end of the day, the reason that if you dial the whole thing back, the reason that we have a president is because at all, that we have an executive is that the founders understood we didn't want rule by consensus, that every once in a while there comes a time that you need one person to just be able to exercise that executive authority over certain matters.
00:22:04.000But they're going to be completely constrained in doing this.
00:22:07.000I want people to understand that, of course, they'll still be a nominal president, right?
00:22:11.000They're not actually talking about getting rid of the White House or anything like this.
00:22:14.000But what they're doing is they're turning it into a facade.
00:22:17.000They want it to be a situation where that person is nothing more than a figurehead, has no power whatsoever.
00:22:23.000And really the ones that are making decisions are the bureaucracy.
00:22:26.000By the way, this is how you get a king like Anthony Fauci, who is able to make decisions for schoolhouses in Tennessee that have nothing to do with, you know, nothing to do with their actual local representatives because he has full power.
00:22:43.000And listen, people are going to dig into this for the next few years.
00:22:46.000And I think they're going to realize that the fundamental essence of American government has been changing before our eyes and that Republicans have sometimes been co-conspirators in allowing it to happen.
00:22:56.000Democrats are driving a lot of decisions.
00:22:58.000And then there's this additional branch of government, the bureaucrats who live beyond a Democrat and a Republican, the Anthony Fauci's of the world, who can drive this discussion, can drive decision making, and in sometimes in cases, thwart a president.
00:23:11.000We saw the bureaucracy repeatedly deny the president his orders.
00:23:22.000We talk about stealing elections, but I think you also had a stolen, a stolen presidency in the sense that, what was it, two and a half years, three years?
00:23:57.000And on the 11 o'clock on the morning of January 20th, one hour from the end of the Trump presidency, the Justice Department comes in and said, we need those documents back.
00:24:07.000And they keep those documents and they defy a presidential order to release them to the American public.
00:24:12.000We've now put those documents in there.
00:24:14.000From the beginning, Donald Trump, the moment Donald Trump began to run for president to the last decision he made as president, he was thwarted by a permanent bureaucracy.
00:24:22.000Let me ask you, so getting back to the actual case at hand, these documents, and we've got, and Kyle Cheney over Politico is going, oh, they're this one and this classification, TSSTI and SI and TK.
00:24:34.000Kyle Cheney must have been so busy tweeting the last couple of weeks.
00:24:54.000He says that they were the process that he had was that when he wanted to take classified documents home to do work, he can go up to the residents, leave the Oval Office.
00:25:03.000The normal procedure is the National Security Officer stays with a classified document, gives it to the president.
00:25:07.000When the president's done, the National Security Officer takes that document back, gives it to the White House staff secretary, and there's a process.
00:28:12.000They just do the crime in the country.
00:28:14.000Then there is an MI5 and MI6 that do internal and external intelligence gathering.
00:28:18.000There are a group of members in Congress I've been talking to that very privately been talking among each other that that might be a future model, which is, all right, we're going to keep the FBI and just let it solve crimes.
00:28:27.000We're going to take all the counterintelligence stuff, put that to a domestic counterintelligence thing, keep the CIA doing the CIA's foreign intelligence, and we'd have the best world.
00:28:35.000When you look at the things that have most concerned the American public and members of Congress in the last 10 years, almost all of them flow from the counterintelligence capabilities of the FBI.
00:28:45.000By the way, the increased powers they got after 9-11, everybody was worried, you give an agency that much power, will they eventually start to cheat?
00:28:52.000They cheated in the Russia case, right?
00:28:57.000There is a growing belief that counterintelligence capability mixed with criminal creates a temptation to find things and then build a criminal case against your enemies.
00:29:07.000And I think breaking that apart is one of the ideas that some members of Congress are talking about privately right now.
00:29:12.000I think that separation is intriguing some people, but let's step back from that.
00:29:21.000It's almost like dividing CIA, a new domestic intelligence agency, and then the FBI becomes the crime fighters and nothing else.
00:29:28.000And so that part that's in the FBI now of domestic intelligence, which by the way was abused for parents, right?
00:29:33.000Abused for potentially Russia collusion, clearly abused, may be abused here with the presence of a problem if they're going after child sex traffickers and people that are grooming on the internet, people, you know, teachers who are grooming, corrupt politicians that are actually, you know, and by the way, real corruption, like this guy took money to get this passed.
00:29:53.000And you've got the bag and you've got like AB scam back in the day.
00:29:56.000If you're going after bank robbers, you know, that type of thing, sure, of course, let's have an agency for that.
00:30:02.000But here's the question that I think a lot of people are going to have, like NCMEC for missing exploited children.
00:30:38.000Then they lied about it afterwards suggests that some of the problems that have predominantly been evidenced in the counterintelligence may also be in the culture of the criminal side.
00:30:46.000So some people want to say, you know what?
00:31:24.000I've covered four major rounds of scandals with the FBI.
00:31:28.000Everyone always promised this is the scandal we're going to reform it.
00:31:31.000And then another scandal comes down the line.
00:31:32.000It's an agency that's had a hard time assuming accountability.
00:31:36.000It doesn't hold itself accountable as much as other agencies do.
00:31:39.000And it seems to fall into the same trap, which is it's more important to get a win than to follow the law.
00:31:45.000And that's when you see at the heart of all their cheating, that's where the FBI constantly went wrong.
00:31:49.000If we can't get a win, we're going to ignore it.
00:31:51.000We can get a win, we might push the envelope.
00:31:53.000That culture may be so ingrained in the FBI that some people have a concern of leaving the institution there.
00:31:58.000We'll see where this ends up, but it's not a debate that will be ignored in 2023.
00:32:02.000Look, if I had my brother, we only got one minute left.
00:32:05.000I know you have a heart out, but I got to say the one thing that we definitely, definitely, in terms of all this, have to get rid of is that building that J. Edgar Hoover eyesore, that it is, it's disgusting.
00:32:16.000It's one of the most ugly buildings I've ever seen in my life.
00:32:37.000There's also some amazing people that work every day to keep us safe.
00:32:40.000They never get credit because they fall below all of these scandals, but there's a lot of good people.
00:32:44.00014 of them have come out in the recent months and gone to Jim Jordan and to Chuck Brassley saying, we want to blow the whistle on what's really going on.