The Charlie Kirk Show - Exposing the Cultural Hijacking of America with Steve Deace

00:00:00.000 Hey, everybody.

00:00:00.000 Today in the Charlie Kirk Show, Steve Dace, author of an excited new book.

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00:01:10.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

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00:01:43.000 Welcome to this episode of the Charlie Kirk Show.

00:01:43.000 Hey, everybody.

00:01:45.000 With us today is Steve Dace, and he's been with us before, and the episodes do really well.

00:01:50.000 And he's really smart.

00:01:51.000 He has a new book called Do What You Believe.

00:01:55.000 Steve, tell us about your book.

00:01:58.000 I think the subtitle kind of says it all, or you won't be free to believe it much longer.

00:01:58.000 Thank you, Charlie.

00:02:02.000 And I think that, you know, we needed an updated culture war battle plan because this has gone beyond culture war.

00:02:10.000 It has descended, I think, into a full-blown cold civil war now.

00:02:14.000 It's just, it's not the Soviets and the Americans from when I was a kid.

00:02:18.000 It's really now the left America versus what's left of America.

00:02:22.000 It's really authoritarianism, whether it's from the public or private sector.

00:02:27.000 As you watch major news outlets like the New York Times now, after playing class warfare most of my life, they're now just ripping and reading press releases from big pharma companies as news without any scrutiny or skepticism whatsoever.

00:02:41.000 So it's really authoritarianism, whether public or private.

00:02:44.000 And when you put authoritarians in the public and private sector together, what do you get?

00:02:47.000 Good old-fashioned fascism versus everybody else.

00:02:50.000 And I think you're seeing some of the old left-right Venn diagram is being violated by people like Bill Maher and Dave Chappelle and Joe Rogan.

00:02:59.000 I think that a lot of people that maybe don't understand where people like you and I are coming from and don't fully agree still think that they ought to be allowed to be free.

00:03:07.000 And so this new paradigm, I think, particularly for Christians, requires a new level of culture war. 0.96

00:03:14.000 And, you know, I was years ago, I read Francis Schaefer's great The Christian Manifesto, but that was written for the 80s and the 90s.

00:03:21.000 And so, yeah, so this is my attempt to update that for the era in which we live now, because I think that we're way beyond let's just wait every two, four, six, and eight years and vote our way out of this.

00:03:32.000 I don't think that's that's going to suffice here.

00:03:34.000 So there's a lot I want to unpack with you, but let's start with the obvious question, at least for me, do what you believe.

00:03:41.000 Most people don't know what they believe.

00:03:43.000 We get into that.

00:03:44.000 We get into that too.

00:03:45.000 And, you know, there's an ancient kind of a stained glass window word known as hermeneutics.

00:03:53.000 And in modern parlance, we refer to it in a secular academic setting as epistemology.

00:04:00.000 And there is an epistemological nuclear winner in America.

00:04:04.000 A lot of Americans don't know what they know or why they know it or why they know it is true.

00:04:12.000 And I think that's true of a lot of Christians as well.

00:04:15.000 There was a Barna poll last year that showed a majority of Christians didn't know what the Great Commission was.

00:04:21.000 It's only the first fundamental command that Christ gives the church in the new covenant, for example, to go ye into all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

00:04:32.000 That's right.

00:04:33.000 And so this is what the prophet in the Old Testament means when he says, my people perish for a lack of knowledge.

00:04:33.000 Yeah.

00:04:40.000 That's right.

00:04:40.000 Or without a vision, the people perish.

00:04:43.000 That's right.

00:04:44.000 And so we have been, we've witnessed in this last generation, there's been a cultural hijacking that has taken place in the co-conspirators or in academia and pop culture.

00:04:55.000 And then ultimately, government has acted upon their success to then act authoritarian in response to that.

00:05:04.000 And a lot of America, and I think that's why you're seeing, you know, it's fascinating to me.

00:05:08.000 I look at Andrew Sullivan.

00:05:09.000 And when I first got into this business, it was to debate and defeat people like Andrew Sullivan and his ideas.

00:05:14.000 He's kind of the William F. Buckley of what I call the rainbow jihad. 0.96

00:05:18.000 He's the first respected intellectual in the history of the American gay rights movement.

00:05:24.000 And now when I look at his Twitter feed, Charlie, I would say conservatively, like half of what he tweets on issues, I could tweet.

00:05:32.000 How did this happen?

00:05:33.000 How did this occur?

00:05:34.000 And it's Sarah Silverman is now deflecting that she's not a racist for telling Joy Reed to stop telling things that are blatant lies because they hurt their own side.

00:05:42.000 This is what I mean.

00:05:43.000 It's not that we're dealing with a new truth or a different claim on the truth.

00:05:49.000 We live in an era of untruth, an era that lacks intellectual curiosity, that doesn't really want to know what really happened with the Las Vegas shooter, what the real motivations were, doesn't really want to know what really went down in Kenosha with Kyle Rittenhouse.

00:06:07.000 We don't want to be intellectually curious.

00:06:09.000 We don't want to be bothered by that.

00:06:11.000 We don't want to know if Jesse Smollett was lying or not, or if he's the first person to actually try to trust the Nigerians who emailed him.

00:06:19.000 No, we just want a particular narrative affirmed.

00:06:23.000 We want to be heavy-petted with it.

00:06:24.000 And as long as my narrative is being affirmed and satiated and is pleasuring me intellectually, that is good enough, whether it is true or not.

00:06:34.000 And that is a dangerous place, Charlie, for a culture to be.

00:06:37.000 So I want to focus obviously on the Christian element of this because that's really who you're writing this for, if I'm not mistaken.

00:06:42.000 Sure.

00:06:43.000 And there's a whole aspect to this where you're going to get a lot of pushback from institutional Christians who, you know, there's a lot of different reasons why they don't want to do anything.

00:06:54.000 They don't want to lose membership or ties and offerings, which is a ridiculous excuse.

00:06:59.000 They don't want to lose social media followers, which of even worse excuse.

00:07:03.000 Or some are so focused on eschatology, study of the end times that they say, what's the difference?

00:07:09.000 Jesus is coming next Thursday.

00:07:10.000 And then there are some people that say, well, then what do I do?

00:07:13.000 And obviously this book, Do What You Believe, or It Won't Be Free Much Longer by Steve Day.

00:07:17.000 So you should all pick up a copy right now is so incredibly important.

00:07:20.000 So I see you mentioned Romans 13 in chapter one, which I'm glad you do.

00:07:24.000 I'm going to give you my own take on Romans 13, which is spicy and interesting and new.

00:07:31.000 Not new.

00:07:32.000 Rob McCoy, my pastor, and I came up with it.

00:07:33.000 You do a great job unpacking it.

00:07:35.000 But I think that some people get it wrong.

00:07:39.000 And I think you get it really spot on.

00:07:42.000 I would just add a level where it says that in Romans 13, it says that let every person be subject to the governing authorities.

00:07:49.000 Well, the people are the governing authorities in this country.

00:07:52.000 So the governing authorities must be submissive to us, right?

00:07:55.000 So I was at a church in Texas.

00:07:57.000 That's why you did a great job with this.

00:07:59.000 And the pastor, I'm not going to say his name.

00:08:02.000 You and I would both know who it is.

00:08:04.000 And his congregation, it was a Q ⁇ A part and I was doing a question answer. 0.96

00:08:09.000 Have we gotten the audio from that one yet?

00:08:10.000 I don't think we've gotten it yet, Connor.

00:08:12.000 No.

00:08:12.000 Anyway, it was this back and forth.

00:08:14.000 And the congregation said, well, our pastor says we must obey local city governances because of Romans 13.

00:08:19.000 And I said, well, who's in charge according to the U.S. Constitution?

00:08:22.000 They said, well, we are.

00:08:24.000 So why didn't your pastor tell you that?

00:08:26.000 You see, under the Constitutional Republic, it's the mayor and the congressman and the senator.

00:08:31.000 They are not the sovereign.

00:08:33.000 Talk a little bit about Romans 13 because Romans 13, I'm glad you start with it in chapter one, was the number one most quoted verse in Nazi Germany.

00:08:41.000 It's the most quoted verse now for Christian inaction.

00:08:44.000 And it is the least understood yet most cited political verse in the entire Bible, please.

00:08:51.000 If you know the background of the Declaration, Romans 13 was a stumbling block to getting the Declaration passed.

00:08:58.000 You had Jonathan Mayhew.

00:09:00.000 Yeah.

00:09:01.000 Most of the colonies, I think except for Rhode Island, were settled by a specific denomination of Christianity.

00:09:10.000 And so you had a heavily or heavily quicker influence in a place like Pennsylvania, for example.

00:09:16.000 They come out of a tradition known as Anabaptism post-Reformation.

00:09:20.000 And these are your Quakers, your Mennonites, these are the folks that kind of retreat from society to live out their faith without civic or civil entanglements. 0.95

00:09:32.000 And we see that even in our modern times today.

00:09:35.000 And so they debated amongst themselves, some of these various Christian traditions.

00:09:39.000 Are we not sinning in violation of Romans 13 if we rebel against England?

00:09:44.000 And this is why Jefferson frames this argument.

00:09:48.000 He says, hey, we're appealing to the supreme judge for the rectitude of our actions, meaning judge our motivations.

00:09:55.000 That's what he means by rectitude.

00:09:57.000 Is what we're doing righteous or not?

00:09:59.000 And the case is made in the declaration that the king has violated the laws of nature and nature's God.

00:10:06.000 That's right.

00:10:06.000 That he is in violation of the highest law, the law of God.

00:10:10.000 And therefore, if they obey the king, they are obeying men and not God.

00:10:15.000 And they have now a, they have exhausted all peaceable means to bring the king back into righteousness.

00:10:21.000 He refuses to repent.

00:10:23.000 And now they are faced with a conflict because if they continue to obey these unlawful, what they viewed as unbiblical mandates, then they are now sinning.

00:10:32.000 They are now violating the kingdom of God in order to obey the kingdom of man. 0.94

00:10:36.000 And it was this hermeneutical connection that eventually brought the rest, brought those colonies that were resistant to revolt online.

00:10:45.000 In our day and age, we shouldn't have to wrestle with that whatsoever because of what you just articulated.

00:10:51.000 The Constitution begins with we the people in order to form a more perfect union.

00:10:56.000 So therefore, the people were not made for the constitution.

00:10:59.000 The constitution was made for the people.

00:11:01.000 Similar to when Jesus says the Sabbath was not made for man.

00:11:05.000 Man was not made for the Sabbath, but Sabbath was made for man, that it was there to bless us, not to hold us hostage.

00:11:12.000 Okay.

00:11:12.000 This is about us.

00:11:14.000 It's about the will of the people.

00:11:16.000 And if you won't violate, if you violate that, then you are actually violating the rulers.

00:11:21.000 We're the ones upholding Romans 13 here.

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00:12:28.000 But even beyond America's particular civic arrangement, there remains the point that if what Paul meant, you know, I know we live in an era of philosophical reconstructionism or reductionism, that we can determine and throw out things that people write that we don't like, or we can redetermine what they thought they meant.

00:12:49.000 But, you know, we know what Paul's words mean by how he lived them out.

00:12:53.000 If Paul really meant that in Romans 13 to do every cotton pick and thing a king tells you to do, why did Nero cut his head off then? 0.94

00:13:00.000 If he was that compliant, if he was that willing to do whatever the state said, why did he live his last few years under house arrest until he was decapitated by Nero?

00:13:08.000 Clearly, that's not what he meant.

00:13:09.000 And Peter reasserts something similar later in the New Testament in one of his epistles.

00:13:13.000 Well, if he also meant total subjugation to the state, even when it comes to the actual living out and preaching of the gospel, then why was he crucified upside down?

00:13:23.000 So clearly, there is a line somewhere.

00:13:25.000 When the Roman government executed Jesus, now we understand theologically as Christians that Christ died as a sacrifice for our sins, that we were the ones, all of us who have ever lived and sinned, we are the ones that killed Christ.

00:13:38.000 He is the sacrifice, the atoning sacrifice for us.

00:13:40.000 But in the pagan Roman mind, what was the charge?

00:13:44.000 When the religious leaders say he's claiming to be a king, and we have no king but Caesar, he's charged with sedition or leading a revolt.

00:13:53.000 That's why they put a sign over his head on the cross that's corrupting the minds of the youth.

00:13:57.000 Yeah, that's right.

00:13:57.000 Yes, that he's the king of this is not that he claims to be the king of the Jews.

00:14:03.000 They viewed him as a civic threat.

00:14:06.000 They understood what he represented.

00:14:08.000 So clearly, there is a line that you render under Caesar's, that which is Caesar's and render under God that which is God's.

00:14:16.000 Paul in Romans 13 is more hermeneutically fleshing out that teaching of Christ.

00:14:22.000 And there's a key phrase in Romans 13 that we often forget: give honor to whom honor is due.

00:14:29.000 What does that mean?

00:14:30.000 It means that there are certain things that Caesar could demand that he is not due, that do not belong to him, that belong to jurisdictions above him.

00:14:40.000 He is not to receive that honor.

00:14:42.000 Now, short of that, are we to be peaceable, the best model citizens possible, short of being forced to violate God's law?

00:14:50.000 You bet we are.

00:14:51.000 All right.

00:14:52.000 But when we are called to violate God's law, then that is when we resist.

00:14:58.000 Paul lived that out in his own life.

00:15:00.000 That's his own life's end testimony.

00:15:03.000 St. Peter did the same thing.

00:15:04.000 And then we created a system through our founders where we wouldn't be faced with such choices, ideally, because ultimately the people rule here and not a ruling class.

00:15:15.000 Yeah, it's not even a question in America.

00:15:17.000 Australia, you have to go through a little bit deeper of a reflection, but it's very simple.

00:15:22.000 If you go back to the Greek of what was written in Romans, it was this idea of the sovereign.

00:15:29.000 You must submit to the sovereign.

00:15:31.000 And the founders solved that problem for us.

00:15:34.000 And Romans 13 was the big hang-up of the Declaration because we know that 55 out of 56 of the signers of the Declaration were Bible-believing, regular church attending Christians.

00:15:44.000 And Jonathan Mayhew was the leading pastor who inspired the American Revolution.

00:15:51.000 He famously said, he said, obedience to tyrants is disobedience to God.

00:15:56.000 It was this kind of incantation.

00:15:59.000 And also the framework of Whitfield and Edwards and many others, and you mentioned Rhode Island well before that, Roger Williams helped kind of lay this foundation of what eventually became, you know, the freedom-loving, liberty-demanding people of America.

00:16:15.000 So let me ask you about that.

00:16:18.000 There's an aspect of this that I think that is hotly contested within Christian circles.

00:16:23.000 And they say, Steve, I hear you.

00:16:26.000 Things are falling apart.

00:16:27.000 You know, we got men who think they're women and women who think they're men. 0.68

00:16:30.000 We got abortions on demand. 0.99

00:16:32.000 We got pedophilia on our screens, but the problem is one of the heart.

00:16:36.000 And politics is not for us.

00:16:38.000 What we need to do is just preach the gospel.

00:16:40.000 And I might vote, but come on, a culture war, Steve.

00:16:45.000 Where does it say in the Bible to do that?

00:16:48.000 We are to occupy until he comes.

00:16:50.000 We are called to disciple the nations, teaching them the commands that Christ has given us, a new covenant, a new way to live.

00:16:59.000 Now, I am someone, as you may well know, I've been pretty critical in the pre-Trump era of how cozy to completely sold out to being mouthpieces for the Republican Party some well-known Christian conservative leaders and clergy were.

00:17:18.000 And I think what's happened is, you know, I'm Gen X. My generation is now taking over the pulpits.

00:17:24.000 And I think you're seeing a lot of the men that are taking those pulpits over, they don't want to be mascots for the Republicans, especially in the current state of a party who often doesn't fight for us and defend us unless we put a gun to their head anyway.

00:17:36.000 So what's the point, right?

00:17:37.000 But now we've kind of gone the other way to becoming completely passive aggressive about it at the exact same time, along the lines of what you're talking about.

00:17:46.000 And to me, I just think that when you look at the, when you, when you see the arc of God's interaction with his people and what he commands, this, this teeter-tottering of going back and forth to extremes, that's actually not a fruit of the spirit.

00:18:01.000 That's actually more of a reactionary, ungenerated sort of a pagan mindset that we represent a new way.

00:18:09.000 We don't have to fall into false choices.

00:18:12.000 It's not a choice between being a mascot for a Republican party, for a political party that frankly, most days isn't worth selling out to anyway, or we just passively, aggressively let this thing go to hell.

00:18:25.000 The answer is simple.

00:18:27.000 No matter where we're at, whether we are politically engaged, whether we serve in a ministry formally, whether we are at a blue-collar job, whether we are a business mogul, whether we're doing a podcast, what is the point and purpose for why we're doing those things?

00:18:43.000 Sola de Gloria for the glory of God.

00:18:46.000 Do you glorify God by keeping silent when the Pennsylvania women's team is replaced by men who weren't good enough as men, but are now allowed to recategorize themselves as women and now dominate women?

00:19:03.000 Does that glorify God to not call out that distinction?

00:19:06.000 Do you really believe, stop and think for a second?

00:19:09.000 Stop it.

00:19:10.000 Paul, who on the streets, on the streets of Ephesus, confronted Simon Bargesus, the local sorcerer.

00:19:16.000 Actually, I don't think it was Ephesus.

00:19:17.000 It was somewhere else.

00:19:18.000 But in the middle of the man who had completely bedeviled the town with his sorcery and in front of this and in front of the townsfolks looked at him and said and called him a son of the devil.

00:19:28.000 Do you believe that if St. Paul were alive today, he'd have nothing to say, nothing to say about the gender bending that is going on. 0.86

00:19:36.000 He'd have nothing to say.

00:19:37.000 A man who used his Roman citizenship, by the way, in order to recreate for himself a trial that gave him a platform to preach and teach the gospel.

00:19:46.000 You think he would not use his American citizenship for similar means and similar purposes.

00:19:52.000 Why are you here?

00:19:54.000 What is the purpose of your citizenship?

00:19:57.000 Why did God, why did God plant you here?

00:19:59.000 He didn't expect you to bloom.

00:20:00.000 He doesn't want you to engage the process whatsoever that is invading the moral and spiritual space that the church is supposed to occupy.

00:20:11.000 Not to mention the first thing God did when he created his own people is he gave them a covenant and formed a formed a form of a government, a direct theocracy.

00:20:22.000 So this idea that God has nothing to say about these areas whatsoever and doesn't want his people to, I'm all for not being a mascot.

00:20:29.000 That's, hey, David was God's anointed.

00:20:32.000 God still sent the prophet Nathan to him to call him to account.

00:20:36.000 I'm all for that.

00:20:37.000 All right.

00:20:37.000 But the idea that the opposite or the antecedent or the or the antidote to not becoming sold out mascots that tarnish our witness for a political party, whether it's Jim Wallace for the Democrats or somebody else for the Republicans, that the answer to that is to therefore passive aggressively, laissez-faire, just let the pagans have the most influential arena in any culture.

00:20:59.000 I just don't see how you can make a biblical case for that on any level whatsoever.

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00:22:37.000 Zero will go to fund the woke industrial complex instead. 0.87

00:22:40.000 Andrew and Todd, they support shows like ours.

00:22:43.000 They want to help patriots, Christians, and people that love their country and love the Lord take out loans and do it correctly.

00:22:50.000 So go to AndrewandTodd.com, call 888 888 1172.

00:22:54.000 That's 888 888 1172.

00:22:56.000 AndrewandTodd.com.

00:22:58.000 Support the good guys and stop supporting companies and banks that hate you.

00:23:03.000 The banks have waged war on our values.

00:23:05.000 Time to say Sayonara via Candios.

00:23:08.000 Alvita Sane.

00:23:09.000 I'll be going to andrewandtodd.com.

00:23:14.000 Yeah, the case comes from a variety of three different categories, right?

00:23:18.000 So one is the complicit church where they think the Bible is a series of allegories and poetry and that we must always be changing the Bible to the times, which is a thing that some pastors are saying.

00:23:33.000 Like, oh, the Bible doesn't speak that clearly about adultery or the Bible, who says homosexuality is wrong in the Bible, like things like that, right? 0.85

00:23:41.000 And that's like the woke church.

00:23:43.000 Then there's the complacent church where they just kind of sit around and they don't do much, but and they never really preach anything that definitive.

00:23:53.000 Great music usually at those churches, you know, really good coffee and fellowship, phenomenal car parking operation.

00:24:03.000 And that's about it, right?

00:24:04.000 It's just kind of like we got a great youth ministry and we will never say anything that will offend you.

00:24:11.000 That's like basically the whole thing.

00:24:14.000 And those churches are extremely popular, as you well know.

00:24:18.000 Then there is the courageous church, and you and I know many of these pastors that have, especially during the Fauci virus lockdowns, they deserve a lot of credit.

00:24:26.000 People like Jack Hibbs, people like Rob McCoy, people like James Cadiz, people like the Barnett family here in Phoenix.

00:24:32.000 I could go through it.

00:24:33.000 I've dealt with a lot of these churches.

00:24:34.000 I've spoken to over 100 of them in the last year and a half.

00:24:36.000 Phenomenal people.

00:24:38.000 But the question really is, though, you know, for let's start with the complacent church.

00:24:43.000 A lot of them say the answers aren't totally clear here, Steve.

00:24:47.000 You know, let's take political parties out. 1.00

00:24:50.000 They say the most important thing is we just need to preach the gospel.

00:24:54.000 I don't really want to get involved in this stuff.

00:24:56.000 It's messy.

00:24:57.000 It's divisive.

00:24:59.000 And aren't we here to bring people together?

00:25:02.000 Jesus said, I didn't come to bring peace.

00:25:04.000 Do not think I came to bring peace, but a sword.

00:25:07.000 Luke 15.

00:25:08.000 Yeah, husband against wife, father against son, mother against daughter.

00:25:14.000 There is no way.

00:25:15.000 I mean, what is the cross?

00:25:17.000 It is an intersection of two beams.

00:25:20.000 Okay.

00:25:21.000 There is no way to do this without some form of conflict.

00:25:25.000 There simply is not.

00:25:26.000 That doesn't mean we have to be unnecessarily douchey.

00:25:29.000 That doesn't mean we have to go out of our way to be jackwagons. 0.98

00:25:32.000 That doesn't mean that when we show up, the immediate response from the pagans is, hey, the jerkster called and they're all out of you. 0.98

00:25:41.000 Okay. 0.95

00:25:41.000 It's a signboard reference for all of you Zoomers out there. 0.95

00:25:45.000 Not that there's anything wrong with it.

00:25:47.000 Yada, yada, yada.

00:25:48.000 Continue.

00:25:48.000 Amen.

00:25:49.000 But the idea that this is unavoidable, that there is some secret incantation tone, some way of doing this.

00:25:56.000 We understand that our, you know, Paul says that the entirety of the New Testament, of the gospel, and all of the teachings that follow herein are all predicated on if Christ be not raised, then our preaching is in vain and we're all still dead in our sins.

00:26:13.000 Raised from what?

00:26:14.000 Murder, crucifixion, from being tortured beyond recognition and then being nailed to a wooden cross to die of asphyxiation in the heat of the desert sun.

00:26:24.000 All right. 0.99

00:26:26.000 That is a bloody, bloody, disgusting process. 0.95

00:26:30.000 There is nothing neat. 0.97

00:26:31.000 There's nothing chill.

00:26:33.000 There's nothing pressed and folded and seamless about that transaction whatsoever.

00:26:40.000 So the idea that you are going to be able to preach that message in a way that doesn't alienate, that doesn't, that doesn't push people away, that is non-confrontational.

00:26:52.000 If you think you can do that, then either A, you have fooled yourself into believing you're nicer than God, or B, you're not actually preaching that message.

00:27:02.000 Well, yeah, and it doesn't tell us to be nice, unfortunately.

00:27:06.000 Some people wish it did.

00:27:07.000 It doesn't mean that it tells us to be mean, but Luke 15 is one of the harshest verses in the entire Bible.

00:27:14.000 And it says exactly what you said.

00:27:15.000 It says father against son, brother against sister.

00:27:18.000 I'm paraphrasing, but I did not come here to unite.

00:27:21.000 I came here to divide.

00:27:22.000 And Jesus spoke very clearly about the consequences of eternity and also the consequences of rejection.

00:27:31.000 Even in the most feel-good verse in the discourse at night with Nicodemus, which is one of the most famous, most quoted verses ever in John 3, Nicodemus is like, wait, what do you mean you could be born again?

00:27:43.000 Like you'd be born once and then born again.

00:27:46.000 This is where we get the, you know, the, you know, the framing of born again.

00:27:50.000 And Jesus says, no, you're born obviously by water and then you're born again by blood.

00:27:54.000 Basically, you're born again when you accept me.

00:27:56.000 But then Jesus goes on to say, and we all know John 3, 16, for God so loved the world, for God so agape the world.

00:28:02.000 But in 17, 18, it goes on.

00:28:04.000 By the way, the reason I did this is so that you don't perish and that you don't burn.

00:28:07.000 It's like, oh, really?

00:28:09.000 And so I totally agree with you.

00:28:12.000 I think that Christianity has become an extension of American corporate culture in some ways in how it is.

00:28:19.000 To the point, I've seen churches that have boards of directors now and don't even have elders anymore.

00:28:23.000 Yeah, that's right.

00:28:24.000 That's correct.

00:28:24.000 And so I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago, and I won't say any names, but two of the kind of mega churches models, one in particular, I will say Willow Creek, which is I grew up kind of going to that church passively, you know, maybe a couple times a year, largely because, Steve, it was a spectacle.

00:28:40.000 I mean, you could not go if you lived in that area, right?

00:28:43.000 It's an auditorium with 15,000 seats and they run it like a machine and great car parking, might I add, awful politics, but great car parking.

00:28:51.000 And, but so I saw that firsthand and it always bothered me kind of how they were expanding and almost like a private equity firm like absolving other churches and stuff.

00:29:01.000 But I suppose a question I have for you, Steve, as you write this towards Christians is how much of this is directed at the pastor in the church?

00:29:08.000 And then how much of your kind of, you know, do what you believe book is also directed at the actual regular church attendee?

00:29:17.000 The answer is yes.

00:29:20.000 That ultimately, one of the, one of the things that pieces of feedback I've gotten the most since I've moved from sports to news talk broadcasting, well, it was radio back then, but now it's just podcasting, everything else, 15 years ago, is why don't I hear this more in church?

00:29:38.000 Or pastor that have come up to me and said, your show has prompted me to get questions from my congregation that I have never gotten before.

00:29:47.000 And to me, I think that there's a symbiotic relationship here.

00:29:51.000 I believe in the priesthood of every believer.

00:29:54.000 I also, though, at the same time, believe there is nothing other than the risen Lord himself.

00:30:00.000 I don't think there's anything that the enemy is more threatened by than one bold man standing in a pulpit with his Bible open, letting it rip.

00:30:10.000 And that's why those pastors will be attacked spiritually, but continue.

00:30:13.000 Yes.

00:30:14.000 The local church, the local church is the weapon of mass.

00:30:18.000 The scriptures in the local church are the weapon of mass destruction in God's economy.

00:30:22.000 And then in a New Testament, where we're now not a nation state as we were in the Old Testament, in the old covenant with Israel, but we are now a house of prayer that is open to all nations, as Jesus quoted from the Old Testament when he tore over the money changers in the temple.

00:30:38.000 Now that the world is not separated any longer between Jews and Gentiles, but there is nor slave nor free. 0.87

00:30:44.000 There is neither Greek nor barbarian, male nor female, not in a binary sense, but in a stationed sense, standing in society.

00:30:53.000 All those mechanisms are now removed.

00:30:56.000 And now you've got the most diverse movement in the history of the world.

00:31:00.000 Something like over a thousand languages have either been spoken with Christianity or the Bible's been translated into.

00:31:06.000 And so that unity comes around what?

00:31:10.000 And that is the worship and observance of Christ as the Son of God, as God, and therefore his word as essentially eternal law.

00:31:21.000 And that ultimately requires an anointed authority that we recognize beyond even the best of small groups.

00:31:31.000 That requires an anointed authority that we recognize because the creation was made on headship.

00:31:36.000 That's why when you look at studies, if mom takes the kids to church without dad, when the kids go up, they're grow up, they're often very, sadly, not likely to continue going to church.

00:31:45.000 But if dad goes, the odds that they will go to church increase exponentially.

00:31:49.000 The creation operates on headship.

00:31:51.000 There must, and headship, by the way, for the guys out there and for the ladies, does not mean authority.

00:31:57.000 It means responsibility in God's economy.

00:32:00.000 God is the authority.

00:32:01.000 When the man is the head of the home, it doesn't mean his word is law.

00:32:05.000 It means he is responsible for the upholding of God's law within that home, and he will be held primarily accountable if that home fails.

00:32:12.000 That's what it means.

00:32:13.000 And because there must be order.

00:32:15.000 And so there must be a chain of command.

00:32:17.000 And so this is where when you've got a man anointed standing there preaching, that's why you need that.

00:32:17.000 All right.

00:32:26.000 And this is the mistake that I think we've made in a political sense.

00:32:29.000 You know, we look at the Republican Party, for example, and we look at how principled and conservative and activated the grassroots is.

00:32:35.000 And we're like, we don't understand why we don't get more done in Washington.

00:32:40.000 Jesus said, beware of the yeast of the Pharisees. 0.99

00:32:42.000 The creation operates on headship.

00:32:45.000 As long as people like Mitch McConnell are your proxies, it will not matter how principled you are.

00:32:52.000 Okay.

00:32:53.000 You'll be stifled by the head, by what's at the head of the operation.

00:32:57.000 Similarly, the people within the congregation can be very, very motivated to go and do righteous things for the kingdom of God.

00:33:05.000 But if the pastor doesn't give them that charge and is complacent, they'll never receive that calling fully the way that will most motivate them.

00:33:15.000 That's why it is about who ultimately is in charge here.

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00:34:48.000 So let's get to the practical.

00:34:50.000 What can people do?

00:34:51.000 What do you tell people to do?

00:34:53.000 Obviously, do what you believe, but what are the practical steps here?

00:34:57.000 The first most practical step is we have to check our motivations, not worry about our tone, but our motivation.

00:35:04.000 Not even worry about our message.

00:35:05.000 What's our motivation?

00:35:07.000 That if our motivation is right, you know, the same Paul that, as I cited earlier, says to Simon Bar Jesus, the sorcerer, you're a son of the devil, also says, though, to rebuke softly using words of love seasoned with salt.

00:35:20.000 I don't know, man.

00:35:21.000 To my human finite brain, calling somebody a son of the devil in front of their neighbors doesn't seem like words of love season.

00:35:28.000 Especially back then.

00:35:30.000 It seems pretty salty.

00:35:32.000 All right.

00:35:33.000 But what's Paul's motivation in both cases?

00:35:35.000 Truth.

00:35:36.000 Truth and love.

00:35:36.000 Yes.

00:35:37.000 Yes.

00:35:38.000 That love is a motivation.

00:35:40.000 I think we think of love as a feeling, as a sentiment or an action.

00:35:45.000 It can manifest those ways, but ultimately it is a motivation.

00:35:49.000 What is our motivation?

00:35:51.000 Love.

00:35:52.000 The reason we communicate truth.

00:35:54.000 Jesus says, for this reason, I came into the world to testify to the truth.

00:35:59.000 And in that same gospel in John, he says, for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that that testimony of truth was given for love, that as you said in John 3, 17, that God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world, but so that through him the world may be saved.

00:36:17.000 Okay.

00:36:18.000 And so what is our motivation?

00:36:22.000 When my daughter Zoe was young and she never wanted to stand still, one day in the grocery store parking lot, one day in the middle of the winter, it's cold.

00:36:29.000 I want to get the groceries in there and I don't put her in her seat yet. 0.98

00:36:32.000 So I say, sweetie, stand right here and give daddy just a second to put the groceries in.

00:36:36.000 I look over my shoulder three seconds later and I see her out of the corner of my eye dart, take off for the parking lot. 1.00

00:36:41.000 It's icy.

00:36:42.000 Now, I suppose I could have been nice and said, Zoe, sweetie, daddy loves you.

00:36:46.000 Please come back.

00:36:47.000 Please come back.

00:36:48.000 I don't want anything bad to happen to you because, you know, if I yell at her or if I'm cross with her to get her attention, people might think I'm being mean to my daughter.

00:36:56.000 They might think something is bad.

00:36:57.000 And I certainly don't want to give them the wrong impression.

00:37:00.000 I want to show them I'm nice at all times.

00:37:02.000 So I'll take this very passive, nice approach and then watch as Zoe maybe gets hits by a car and never gets back into my car.

00:37:08.000 But you were nice.

00:37:10.000 But I was nice. 0.81

00:37:11.000 I'm also a pretty crappy dad. 0.58

00:37:13.000 Instead, what I did is I acted immediately. 0.76

00:37:16.000 I took initiative as the sovereign in this situation, as the father.

00:37:19.000 And I yanked her from the back of her hoodie with reflexes I didn't know that I had, frankly.

00:37:25.000 All right.

00:37:25.000 I grabbed the back of her hoodie and yanked her neck first out of traffic because that's all I could get a hold of in order to stop her from an oncoming car.

00:37:33.000 Now, if you had no idea the context of that action, if you were just walking out of the grocery store and saw me yank my toddler daughter by the back of her hoodie, you might think, hey, that's a terrible father.

00:37:44.000 I don't, but you don't know the full context of this action.

00:37:47.000 Instead, what I did is I saved her life that day in that parking lot.

00:37:50.000 You see the analogy I'm drawing here.

00:37:51.000 Yes.

00:37:52.000 Because what was my motivation?

00:37:54.000 If my motivation was I was angry with her and that's why I yanked her hoodie, then that would be bad.

00:38:00.000 If my motivation was I love her and I want to save her, I don't want her to die.

00:38:05.000 I don't want something bad or tragic to happen to her.

00:38:08.000 And then I committed that action for that reason, then my action was good.

00:38:12.000 We've got to begin with what are our motivations?

00:38:15.000 To me, a great articulation of this is actually in the lion, the witch in the wardrobe.

00:38:19.000 When Lucy goes to Mr. Beaver the night before they're about to meet Aslan, the Christological figure in the story, and Lucy is scared and she goes to Mr. Beaver and she asks, is Aslin safe?

00:38:31.000 And Mr. Beaver says, oh, no, sweetie.

00:38:33.000 He is a roaring lion after all.

00:38:35.000 He is not safe, but he is good.

00:38:39.000 We don't have to be safe, but we do have to be good.

00:38:44.000 And only humans can tell good from evil.

00:38:46.000 Animals can tell pleasure from pain.

00:38:49.000 I love that story with your daughter.

00:38:51.000 I tell a different one when it comes to love because we have love all wrong.

00:38:55.000 You know the four different types.

00:38:57.000 There's more than that of Greek love, agape, phileo, storge, and eros.

00:39:01.000 And we conflate them all together.

00:39:03.000 People think love means being nice.

00:39:05.000 And that's actually not proven anywhere.

00:39:08.000 And now it's hard.

00:39:10.000 It's not always easy to articulate this.

00:39:12.000 The best example I have is that truth is actually the highest form of love.

00:39:17.000 And so the reason you yanked your daughter back is because there was a metaphysical and Newtonian truth that your daughter hitting a car doesn't end well, right?

00:39:29.000 That's something that that's just, that's true.

00:39:32.000 When I went to go, I can't stand the dentist.

00:39:34.000 I think they're, they're all kind of medieval torture people.

00:39:40.000 And I met a good one, thankfully.

00:39:42.000 She was so amazing.

00:39:44.000 And but so I was in a, what you could call it, I guess a, she was giving me, not an analysis, she was giving me, she gave an x-ray and she went through the whole thing and she said, okay, you're going to need to have wisdom teeth surgery in the next 10 days or else, you know, this infection could go to your brain and you could die.

00:40:03.000 And I said, no, no, no, there's got to be another way.

00:40:06.000 Right.

00:40:06.000 And I didn't like her.

00:40:08.000 That was a mean thing to tell me.

00:40:10.000 That was an insensitive thing to tell me.

00:40:13.000 But she, as a brother to a sister, fileed me enough because she's actually a conservative Christian that she's like, okay, well, I like what you're doing so much that if I don't tell you this, you could die.

00:40:23.000 Not what I wanted to hear, by the way, at all.

00:40:25.000 And the not very affirming.

00:40:27.000 No, it was not affirming.

00:40:29.000 It was harsh.

00:40:30.000 It was in some ways brutal, but it was the most loving thing, not eros, not romantically loving, not self-sacrificial loving either.

00:40:39.000 It's not like she's like, hey, I'm going to go take the tooth infection for you.

00:40:42.000 Like, you know, that would have been agape love.

00:40:44.000 And it was instead, it was, hey, I care for you so much.

00:40:49.000 I need to tell you something you don't want to hear.

00:40:51.000 Right.

00:40:52.000 We don't talk about that sort of love anymore.

00:40:55.000 And so at all.

00:40:56.000 Let me ask you about this.

00:40:58.000 And we can go a couple of minutes over if that's okay with you, just because I enjoy this.

00:41:03.000 If that's all right.

00:41:03.000 I don't know if you have time restrictions or not.

00:41:06.000 Why should Christians care about America? 1.00

00:41:08.000 That's another criticism I hear a lot.

00:41:09.000 This is just another nation.

00:41:10.000 It's like every other.

00:41:12.000 It's going to crumble and fall.

00:41:13.000 Let it happen.

00:41:15.000 I certainly don't believe in nationalistic idolatry.

00:41:19.000 You know, to me, the flag, we get misty-eyed when we hear the flag and we hear the drums or when we see the flag and we hear the drums because of what it stands for.

00:41:31.000 And if we, if we do lose those things that it stands for, then you can sink into idolatry where this is just nostalgic, nationalistic, jingoistic fervor.

00:41:41.000 But what it really means that differentiates it from every other place on earth has been lost.

00:41:45.000 So what is the point?

00:41:46.000 And this is where I love Chesterton, GK Chesterton, the great British Christian theologian, his observation that America is the only country that was ever founded upon a creed.

00:41:58.000 And that creed is the mission statement to the Declaration of Independence, that all men are created equal, endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights.

00:42:05.000 All right.

00:42:06.000 And those are imbued by the laws of nature and nature's God.

00:42:10.000 That creed, that creed rests on as sort of a civic application of our own belief system.

00:42:21.000 That's right.

00:42:22.000 And so therefore, a failure to defend it on that level.

00:42:28.000 I'm not an America, love it or leave it kind of guy.

00:42:33.000 I am, but that's okay.

00:42:34.000 So I used to be the last few years of fighting my own government, fascist and COVID has broken me of it.

00:42:40.000 But believe me, I grew up a child of the 80s, man. 0.96

00:42:43.000 I wasn't a we're America bitch kind of kid. 0.96

00:42:45.000 Okay. 0.95

00:42:46.000 You know, and the last 21 years or 21 months, it seems like years of watching my own government.

00:42:51.000 You're right.

00:42:52.000 That's a good point.

00:42:52.000 I feel like a visitor in my own home.

00:42:54.000 You're right.

00:42:54.000 Yes.

00:42:55.000 Yes.

00:42:56.000 I'm starting to learn why it's all opponents of the Constitution, foreign and domestic.

00:43:02.000 We're starting to figure that part of it out.

00:43:03.000 Okay.

00:43:04.000 But ultimately, that creed is based on our belief system.

00:43:10.000 The idea, and it's and next to the church itself, when this country has observed this creed, and it hasn't always done so.

00:43:18.000 That's why we have legacies of slavery and Jim Crow and things in the past that we've had to, we've had to confront.

00:43:25.000 But when this country lives up to that, it has done more good east of Eden than any institution on this planet other than the church itself.

00:43:35.000 Okay.

00:43:36.000 Now, there might be a chasm between the church and a country.

00:43:39.000 I would agree with that, but still second place.

00:43:42.000 And to me, that is worthy of, and what does it mean to be a conservative?

00:43:47.000 To me, conservatism is not an ideology.

00:43:49.000 It's an observational science.

00:43:52.000 I am looking at history and observing what is true, best, and beautiful for the human condition and attempting to conserve that for this and future generations.

00:44:01.000 And the creed that this country was, was founded upon is one of those things, Charlie, that is worthy of conserving because of the amount of good that it has done in this world, the lives that it has saved, the cultures that it has brought back from the brink is worthy of conserving that for as long as there's life in that creed.

00:44:23.000 I think that we have an obligation really to the credibility of our own witness to the world.

00:44:29.000 Because here's the thing, the rest of the world sees this as a Christian nation.

00:44:33.000 Whether that is true or used to be true and isn't anymore, or maybe it was a nation inspired by Christianity, but it wasn't specifically a Christian nation.

00:44:44.000 Whatever those academic theories we posit and want to debate now, just about anywhere else outside the world, especially the or outside of this country, especially the pagan world views this as a country heavily imbued and inspired by Christianity.

00:45:00.000 So the idea of now at the time that the world is watching as it is invaded by wokeism and trainingism and all the various crazy paganisms attacking us now. 0.82

00:45:10.000 And so now, now that there's a great trial where we can show up in front of a watching world and reintroduce them, reintroduce them to the laws of nature and nature's God, that we have a chance to show them what a biblical worldview really means and really does.

00:45:25.000 We've got a Mount Carmel moment here with the prophets of Baal. 0.99

00:45:28.000 Now we want to back away from that opportunity in front of that large cloud of witnesses and say, not our fight.

00:45:35.000 I just don't see that that lines up with the spirit of what the Bible has to say about where we are in the world.

00:45:41.000 Amen.

00:45:42.000 Jeremiah 29, 7.

00:45:43.000 Demand the welfare of the city or the nation that you are in because your welfare is tied to the nation's welfare.

00:45:48.000 And that's the Lord speaking in Jeremiah 29, 7.

00:45:51.000 He calls for you to care about the nation you're in.

00:45:54.000 And just put more simply, this is our home.

00:45:57.000 I don't have to go into some long kind of moral argument of why you should defend your home, especially one that has such a beautiful history, tradition, and exceptionalism.

00:46:08.000 And then you also look at the people that are, it'd be one thing if the people that are like trying to change the country were kind of morally superior to the people trying to keep it incumbent.

00:46:17.000 We're dealing with degenerates here.

00:46:19.000 And we don't have to joke around about it. 0.74

00:46:21.000 This is paganism. 0.66

00:46:22.000 No, exactly.

00:46:24.000 It'd be one thing if like the people that like, you know, we should stop having America the way it is and get back traditional marriage and get rid of abortion. 0.99

00:46:30.000 I'd be like, we got some arguments here.

00:46:32.000 Instead, you got the people that want to destroy the country that believe in drag queen story hour and sexual education for eight-year-olds and sex trafficking children.

00:46:42.000 You're like, you know what?

00:46:43.000 I don't have to go into some sort of long dissertation about this.

00:46:47.000 Your entire worldview is evil and I'm here to stop it and destroy it.

00:46:52.000 Like it says in Romans, love what is good and hate what is evil.

00:46:54.000 All right.

00:46:55.000 Very good, Steve.

00:46:56.000 Anything else in closing?

00:46:58.000 I would just add this.

00:47:02.000 If there's nothing godly or biblical about the creed that America was founded upon, then why is it such is it under such attack by the enemy?

00:47:13.000 If there's no value there, if there's no righteousness there, if it's not a restrainer against evil in the world in any way, shape, or form, and it has no, no eternal significance at all, then why does the enemy devote so many resources to unraveling it?

00:47:32.000 That's the question for every apathetic, complacent, or complicit pastor out there.

00:47:37.000 Do what you believe by Steve Dace.

00:47:40.000 Got to come back on soon.

00:47:41.000 Thanks so much.

00:47:42.000 You bet, brother, anytime.

00:47:45.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:47:47.000 Email us your thoughts.

00:47:48.000 Freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:47:49.000 And if you want to support our show, go to charliekirk.com slash support.

00:47:53.000 Thank you so much for listening, everybody.

00:47:54.000 God bless.

00:47:58.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk. com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - December 14, 2021

Exposing the Cultural Hijacking of America with Steve Deace

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