00:01:00.000We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
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00:01:45.000But what if we look back and we realize we were just inches away from victory and that's when we decided to give up?
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00:02:03.000The biggest speakers in the movement, featuring President Donald J. Trump.
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00:02:58.000We have some wonderful guests this hour.
00:03:01.000We have J.W. Richards, author that's co-author of the important book, Fight the Good Fight, and my friend and amazing person, James Robinson.
00:03:28.000And we decided to do a rewrite, you might say, of some of the concerns and the principles that have been totally abandoned, which are irreplaceable.
00:03:39.000And we realized we need to take a different direction and try to deal with what we're actually facing today, which is the greatest assault, in my opinion, on freedom in the history of our nation.
00:03:50.000And it's like right now we got Stalin running the country, but he's rather than using a bullet, he's using the courts, justice, and everything else to try to destroy us.
00:04:00.000But he has to destroy us and control us.
00:04:02.000And that's what he's working toward doing.
00:04:04.000So he's trying to show people that there are principles that are confirmed by history, but they are very much biblical.
00:04:15.000That's the kingdom impact he left us here to make.
00:04:18.000So I think the book, and I think Jay, is just absolutely a gift from God.
00:04:22.000And I think heritage and everybody recognizes that.
00:04:25.000But we've been brought together, me, a mainline evangelical Protestant for sure, and Jay, a very strong Catholic.
00:04:34.000But both of us realize that we have room to grow and we're both willing to grow and we have grown together with a supernatural union, which God wants for the whole church.
00:04:43.000So Charlie, you are as great an inspiration, in my opinion, to the church and the nation and to people that love freedom, who believe faith, family, and freedom matters.
00:04:52.000There is nobody making a better impact, especially on the younger people in our nation, but the whole nation.
00:05:14.000As James said, we did a book in 2012 together, but in some ways that was still conventional left-right politics.
00:05:20.000I mean, we're talking Barack Obama and Mitt Romney.
00:05:22.000We were still debating natural marriage versus same-sex marriage.
00:05:26.000And James and I thought, well, we could reissue Indivisible, but we're looking around.
00:05:30.000No, this, we're in a different world now.
00:05:32.000I mean, there's this thing that we call woke ideology just because we don't have a word for it, but it's essentially a cultural wrecking ball that manifests itself in all of our institutions and in the academy.
00:05:45.000This is a different moment, but it's also a kind of hopeful moment.
00:05:48.000And that's the subtitle of the book, How an Alliance of Faith and Reason Can Win the Culture War.
00:05:55.000Because a lot of conservatives like us, social conservatives, we tend to think, okay, the only people we can really lie with are just people like us.
00:06:02.000But Charlie, in the last three years, I've been fighting gender ideology as you have.
00:06:05.000What I found is there is a completely new group of people.
00:06:09.000There's all the regular social conservatives.
00:06:11.000There's Trump conservatives that were brought into the Republican Party maybe in 2016.
00:06:15.000But there are atheist evolutionary biologists.
00:06:18.000There are suburban moms who didn't have any sort of political bone in their bodies.
00:06:23.000There are people that identify as lesbian that hate gender ideology.
00:06:28.000And so what we're going to do is write a book that both gave conservative Christians and social conservatives a way to understand theologically all the important issues, but also the basic arguments that we think you need to make in persuading these new potential allies that we have.
00:07:31.000But of course, your pastor friend that warns you is right.
00:07:34.000So if I say, okay, I'm going to work with gays against groomers fighting gender ideology because they're following the light that they have.
00:07:42.000So I'm going to agree with them on that.
00:07:44.000That doesn't mean I'm not reserving a time later in which I want to have a longer conversation about the nature of marriage and natural law and all those kinds of things.
00:07:53.000Same thing with allying with an atheist who believes in freedom and limited government.
00:07:57.000We need to be building friendships with these people that may be 20% our friends, but in many cases, they're 70% are friends.
00:08:04.000The problem is that conservatives, our instinct is usually to fight people that are closest to us.
00:08:09.000Freud called it the narcissism of small differences.
00:08:12.000My view is what you should do is say, okay, what does the left want us doing?
00:08:16.000Well, what the left wants to have happen is Protestants and classical liberals and Catholics all to fight amongst ourselves, right?
00:08:23.000We need to say, okay, what do they want us to do?
00:08:26.000And then do the opposite if we actually want to win.
00:08:31.000Let me just say that I think one of the things we have to realize when we're talking about cooperation, we're not going to see the kind of healthy spiritual, God-led cooperation until the church, the family of God, the family of the perfect father, and the body of the perfect person, Christ, begin to look like him and the family comes together.
00:08:50.000The family of the perfect father needs to learn to love one another.
00:08:53.000Jay and I are a tremendous example of that happening.
00:08:56.000We don't compromise one point of view, and we believe God is correcting all of us and we all need to be corrected.
00:09:02.000We need to be yielded clay in the hands of the Master Potter, who will shape us all into a vessel of honor.
00:09:08.000A vessel of honor is a vessel through which God flows his word, his will, his love, and his transforming truth in unconditional love.
00:09:18.000And he's looking for a family where we come together with our unique design and our divine purpose and our kingdom purpose, and we begin to live to see God's will done on his earth.
00:09:32.000And it is his family that will show the way of supernatural cooperation and unity, even if you may have a different theological point of view.
00:09:40.000The people who had memorized the Bible were the chief crucifiers of Jesus.
00:09:45.000So you can take God's word and use it against God.
00:09:50.000We have to all remain yielded clay and teachable.
00:09:53.000That's what we're trying to inspire the church to do, to look like the Father, the body of Christ to look like him.
00:10:00.000That is the kingdom impact on planet earth we were left here to make.
00:10:04.000And if everybody will realize you've got to put certain unshakable, irrefutable principles in place for anything to win, starting with marriage all the way through everything that happens on this earth, those principles have been cast aside.
00:10:19.000They have not only been mocked and ridiculed, they have been removed, and we've got to pull them back.
00:10:24.000And we have to do that by getting the right leaders who understand the importance of the imperative principles that are catastrophic if you deny them, blessed if you keep them.
00:10:35.000And that's what we're trying to do in the book, Fight the Good Fight.
00:10:39.000And it takes the family of God to fight that fight.
00:10:42.000That's what the disciples were left here to do.
00:10:44.000They weren't left here to get out of here.
00:10:46.000They were left here to get him in in the fullness of his power in his family so the whole world could see him as he is.
00:10:53.000And we'll be following the principles that we discuss very clearly, but at about a seventh grade reading level, because we want everybody to be able to read it.
00:11:01.000It's a simple read, powerful, undeniable principles.
00:11:05.000And I think Jay did a fabulous job of fleshing them out in a way that very few people could do it.
00:11:10.000It is Fight the Good Fight, how an alliance of faith and reason can win the culture war.
00:11:18.000What does a victory in the culture war look like?
00:11:21.000What a victory in the culture war looks like is that people that recognize biological sex applies to human beings is a reality.
00:11:30.000And that's true both in our institutions, but also in our public culture.
00:11:34.000It's a place in which people can exercise genuine religious freedom, the free exercise of religion, which isn't mere private belief.
00:11:41.000It's also not sort of a national establishment of religion, but it's a vibrant practice of Christianity and vibrant faith in the public square.
00:11:49.000Those are the kind of two things that I think will be major signs that we're moving in the right direction and have at least won some of the short-term battles.
00:11:57.000Here's the book right here: Fight the Good Fight.
00:11:59.000James is nice enough to send me a copy.
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00:12:20.000They know that 90% of permanent change comes from the mind, and they work on eliminating the reason you gain this weight in the first place.
00:13:19.000So, James, I'm only going to ask some of these questions, not even from an oppositional advocate standpoint, but just because I received these tough questions, and I think it's helpful for our audience to work through it.
00:13:29.000So, the other day, a pastor who's very well known, I was dialoguing with him on text, and he was all about America and what to happen.
00:13:45.000James, how do you, and then I want to get Jay, but James, how do you respond?
00:13:49.000Because that is, I hear from a lot of pastors, not that they say that we shouldn't fight, but it's just not worth it, that God is done with America.
00:14:46.000The king is not only here, he is in us.
00:14:50.000He said he established his kingdom in us.
00:14:52.000And then, after the resurrection, he said he put his kingdom in us in resurrection power.
00:14:57.000When he was about to ascend, the disciples were asking him if he's going to set up the next kingdom.
00:15:01.000He said, Why are you talking about something that only one person knows?
00:15:05.000Do what I left you here to do, but tarry basically until you're endued with this power from on high where the Holy Spirit, the living God, comes in you in power and puts the kingdom power in you with my will being done through you in supernatural power.
00:15:20.000That's what happened in the upper room.
00:15:22.000When they walked out of the upper room, those guys that didn't understand clearly kingdom, they came out demonstrating the kingdom.
00:15:29.000And the entire book of Acts touched everything on planet earth with godly oversight and godly impact.
00:17:18.000And we're going to talk about that throughout the hour because a lot of pastors I deal with say, I believe God's will, God's will is to rapture us out as quick as possible when things get.
00:17:28.000And so I think that's important to discuss, though, James.
00:17:48.000What if I told you that most of the notable diaper brands support abortion, even footing the bill for their employees to travel to have an abortion?
00:17:56.000It's one thing to reject your customers.
00:17:57.000It's another thing to support their termination.
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00:19:01.000You coming from a Catholic perspective to give Catholics great credit is that they have built institutions and they have built multi-generational places of impact, whether it be education.
00:19:14.000You look at how many Catholics are on the Supreme Court.
00:19:17.000We Protestants could do a much better job of planting a tree that you'll never actually see come to its full fruit.
00:19:24.000So I want to talk about that after the break and just also dialogue with this because there is a fair amount and they might be right to be clear, end times talk.
00:19:33.000And I would say that a majority of our audience right now is saying, what's the point?
00:19:44.000I mean, look, whatever kind of Christian you are, if you're Orthodox, if you're a Catholic or evangelical, we all believe that Christ is going to come at some point and he's going to establish his kingdom in its fullness.
00:19:56.000We also believe, because Jesus said, the kingdom of God is.
00:19:59.000In us and is among us that there's a sense in which the kingdom is already here when the church acts as it's supposed to act.
00:20:05.000So, when we give the poor a glass of water, that's the kingdom of God breaking into the here and now.
00:20:11.000The thing we're not supposed to do is to use the second coming as a justification for inaction in the present.
00:20:18.000That's the point, I think, part of the point of Jesus's claim that that we don't know the time or the place when this is going to happen.
00:20:23.000We should always be ready, but the last thing we should do is just say well, let's just sort of give up.
00:20:28.000Uh, we don't know what chapter we're in, we don't know whether the United States Of America makes it to the end or not.
00:20:34.000But, as James said, we are given the responsibility to do what we can to advance goodness, truth and beauty in the here and now, always counting on the fact that yes, at some point, God in his sovereignty will establish his kingdom in its fullness.
00:20:48.000That's not a justification for us to surrender right now.
00:20:51.000In fact, the secular left would love for Christians to think exactly that way.
00:20:58.000I want to now go to this here, page 29 uh, in your book, which is fight the good fight, go in Public.
00:21:04.000You guys talk and I believe critically here, of the He Gets Us advertisement.
00:21:10.000Uh Jay, can you tell us why you decided to mention that?
00:21:13.000And because it says here quote, they were just an attempt to make Jesus appeal to left-wing Americans.
00:21:19.000So that you know, over a couple hundred million bucks has been pledged behind that effort.
00:21:25.000Uh, why is that approach not the best way to spread salt and light in the public discourse now?
00:21:32.000So, in theory, of course, anytime we are trying to persuade someone, or if you're trying to evangelize someone, you want to speak in a language that they understand.
00:21:39.000You don't use sort of foreign terms that that are off-putting.
00:21:42.000So in that sense, I think uh, the He gets Us campaign makes sense.
00:21:46.000I think where it failed is that it basically bought into some of the false stereotypes of conservative Christians, and so that was the thing that I think very much crossed the line.
00:21:56.000It's one thing to say okay, I need to speak in a way that a kind of secular uh, leftist will understand.
00:22:01.000Another thing to actually appeal to the false stereotypes of Christians in order to curry favor.
00:22:07.000I think that was the kind of the serious rhetorical slip up in the He Gets Us campaign and moreover uh, leftists like Aoc didn't even buy it.
00:22:16.000In fact, they accused the He Gets Us campaign of, I think, advancing Christian nationalism or something like that, so didn't even actually work with the target audience and I think in some ways it just perpetuated some of the unfair stereotypes that the media loves to play with perfect segue.
00:22:30.000So James, i'm going to let you riff on this.
00:22:32.000I have this other book, which i'm not trying to plug, but it's important just to say the false White Gospel which is being pushed by the regime where they're.
00:22:39.000They're accusing people like us, James and Jay, of being Christian nationalists.
00:22:46.000How shall we respond when we get called that label?
00:22:48.000James, especially in this highly consequential election year?
00:22:52.000Well, we're Christians that care about everything that matters to everybody that knows what matters.
00:23:16.000They don't have to even take up a weapon against us.
00:23:18.000We're going to fall into their hands like an overripe tomato.
00:23:20.000Back in the 70s, I started telling all the people who used the free market wealthy to literally endow the universities that basically set up to destroy the free market.
00:23:30.000And the universities have been given to the deceiver.
00:23:39.000We didn't have to give public education to the government.
00:23:41.000We didn't have to give the future to an overreaching, overpowering, overthrowing government that is destroying totally what freedom really means.
00:23:50.000We have the opportunity to literally come together in supernatural unity that Jesus prayed for and see the Father's will done on his earth.
00:24:00.000And that means we can put people who are principled.
00:24:28.000So let's get committed to the Father's will.
00:24:30.000Let's put people in office and in leadership that understand you can't leave these principles out.
00:24:37.000You can't even have a winning sports team if you don't understand respect for one another any more than you can have a good marriage if you don't respect one another.
00:24:45.000There are principles that have to be in place in every area.
00:24:48.000And Jay and I touch on those principles and they are irrefutable.
00:24:52.000And Jay, you have done masterfully at helping people see it throughout history, why it works, and not having these principles is doomed to total failure.
00:25:05.000I mean, we're sort of trapped either way because the media has spent several years weaponizing the term Christian nationalism and associating it with white supremacy and all sorts of terrible things.
00:25:16.000And then there are, of course, a few people that have explicitly defended Christian nationalism in the sense that it's a call for, say, establishing a Calvinist confessional state in the United States of America.
00:25:27.000Okay, there's a few people, a few Christians that are arguing that.
00:25:29.000The vast majority of conservative Christians, what we're interested in is pushing back against the rabid secularism of our public culture, which is actually a betrayal of American history itself.
00:25:41.000Look, the founders did not establish a national church, but they also created a widespread platform in the public square for religious ideas.
00:25:51.000The idea that we can't apply the belief that people are made in the image of God to our laws, that we can't apply the natural law that's written on everyone's heart to our laws and our public institutions.
00:26:02.000It's completely contrary to American history, and it doesn't make any sense.
00:26:06.000That doesn't make you a person that's calling for, say, the establishment of a national church and a punishment of anyone who's not a Christian.
00:26:14.000Almost no one actually believes that, but the media has done a really good job of weaponizing that term so that you either say, okay, we'll find them.
00:26:20.000And I'm a Christian nationalist, in which case they think, okay, we've got you, or they get you busy denouncing Christian nationalism.
00:26:27.000And so the trick to walk the razor's edge between those two traps that they want us to fall into.
00:26:59.000How should Christians think about voting from a biblical standpoint?
00:27:05.000What, let's just say, inputs or what formula should a Christian use when they look at how to make a decision in this election and all elections, for that matter.
00:27:14.000Yeah, but I would say a couple of things.
00:27:16.000First, all issues are not created equal.
00:27:19.000So look, broadband regulation doesn't have the same relevance in our voting and shouldn't have a relevance in our voting as the sort of defense of life or a defense of the country or our borders, for instance.
00:27:31.000The second thing is just look at the party platforms and see, okay, which one of these lines up with a robustly Christian or a Judeo-Christian understanding of reality.
00:27:41.000Look, no one is going to claim that the Republican Party is the religious party and the Democratic Party is the irreligious party.
00:27:48.000But, you know, just do a little bit of comparing and you can see exactly how this goes.
00:27:52.000Now, look, I'm in D.C. I know the Republicans and Democrats, there's a sense in which sometimes you feel like you're dealing with the uniparty and the Republicans just do it things a little less badly or a little more slowly, but there are some fundamental differences at the level of the party platforms.
00:28:07.000And then if you're thinking about the kind of personalities involved at the presidential level, think about this.
00:28:12.000The president who enters the White House in January of 2025 is going to have something like 5,000 political appointees.
00:28:22.000These are going to be the people that run and oversee all of these agencies that you can't remember the names of.
00:28:28.000So you're not just voting for one person.
00:28:30.000You're voting for thousands of people who hold one particular view of reality or another view of reality.
00:28:37.000And so I'm afraid that people get caught up with the personality foibles and complications of the candidates and don't realize that those candidates are going to represent thousands of people that will actually be doing something for good or for ill in the government.
00:29:57.000Everyone listening, we know the person who knows best and wants the best for you.
00:30:02.000The very things that you really desire and some of you are fighting for, you're actually destroying the very possibility of having.
00:30:08.000So we're doing our best to show people what the perfect father and the one who knows best wants for all of us and the one who can deliver the best to all of us.
00:30:17.000You know, I'm the product of a rape and the doctor refused to abort me.
00:31:56.000Go to roughgreens.com/slash Kirk to grab yours today, roughgreens.com/slash Kirk.
00:32:04.000So, James, at every public event I get to, Christians will come up and they'll say, Charlie, I cannot vote for Trump because of his character, because of what he's done, so on and so forth.
00:32:38.000And I'm encouraging everybody that I'm actually suggesting right now that the president and all the people looking for someone to be vice president, which they're doing, they consider a great statesman by the name of Mike Huckerby, a tremendous governor, has a great daughter who's a great governor and probably will make a great leader of the nation someday.
00:32:55.000But Mike Cuckerby would be a great advisor and a great communicator of great principles to the whole nation, including our president.
00:33:03.000So I'm just saying, how about look at a statesman that's holding up the truth very effectively?
00:33:42.000Let me just give you a little obscure inside baseball detail, but the Biden administration just finalized a rule for something called Title IX, which is the law passed in 1972 that basically gives women equal treatment in federally funded institutions.
00:33:55.000It's where we got all the women's sports and colleges.
00:33:58.000The Biden administration changed the definition.
00:34:00.000The word sex appears in Title IX, but is never defined.
00:34:03.000And so, under the Biden administration, a new rule says sex shall include gender identity and sexual orientation.
00:34:10.000What that means is that henceforth, a man that identifies as a woman can say, Okay, I want to play in women's sports.
00:34:17.000And the Department of Justice will defend him and his civil rights against the women whose civil rights are being violated because they're having to compete against a male.
00:34:26.000So, at the federal level, under this administration, we're literally dissolving the category of male and female, man and woman, in federal law.
00:34:37.000It's very hard to think of a greater stake than something like that, in which you have a political ideology that seeks not to just destroy the family, not just to destroy life, unborn and pre-born life, but to destroy the very foundation of civilization and the family itself, namely the binary of male and female.
00:34:58.000And that's why I think, frankly, so many people that are now calling themselves refugees are reconsidering their political orientation and commitments.
00:35:07.000It's just much, much more radical than some of the things that we're used to arguing about politically.
00:35:13.000In closing here, James, what is the final, like, let's just say, send off for the book and for our audience, Fight the Good Fight?
00:35:20.000I hope you'll read the book and consider all the precedents.
00:35:23.000But how about taking chapter 17 of John, Jesus' prayer, that we have a personal relationship with this Father I'm talking about, personal relationship, not a religious association or affiliation.
00:35:33.000Then that we'd be shaped and shaped literally by the word of God.
00:35:38.000That is the shaping process in our life.
00:35:50.000The church needs to come together in total unity, submitted to the one head, each member, each body, each person connected to the other members, each uniquely designed, but fulfill God's will and make a kingdom impact.
00:36:08.000So church people, Christian people come together in supernatural unity around the principles of God, which we do share very clearly related to political action and what matters in the nation in the book, Fight the Good Fight.
00:36:22.000Thank you both, Jay Richards and Jay Robinson.