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00:01:10.000Welcome, everybody, to this episode of the Charlie Kirk Show, a flash update and with a little bit of sense of urgency with America's mayor, Mr. Mayor himself, Rudy Giuliani.
00:01:19.000Rudy, welcome back to the Charlie Kirk Show.
00:01:30.000You have a couple constitutional professors that are going through theories of what the vice president, the president of the Senate can and cannot do.
00:01:40.000Well, I mean, the fact is that you have a constitutional provision on the Electoral College.
00:01:46.000Then it got changed by the 12th Amendment because of the confusion in the election of 1800 when Jefferson thought he was elected president and Burr was supposed to be the vice president, but they had the same vote and Burr challenged him.
00:02:00.000And eventually, Jefferson became president.
00:02:03.000And the interesting thing to know is he selected himself president.
00:02:08.000He was the vice president at the time.
00:02:17.000Georgia had voted in one case for Burr, in one case for Jefferson, different electors.
00:02:22.000Jefferson said, I make the decision as the president of the Senate.
00:02:27.000Basically, I pick me, which is precedent for the vice president making the choices with regard or ruling on disputes.
00:02:38.000Then you have a statute that was passed in 1788, I believe it was, about that time, and it changes the procedures quite a bit.
00:02:46.000Problem with the statute is it takes power away from the House of Representatives that is exclusively supposed to choose the president if there's a problem with the electoral college.
00:02:57.000And it shares that power with the Senate.
00:02:59.000And it also takes power away from the state legislatures.
00:03:03.000So our best legal opinion on that is that that's unconstitutional.
00:03:10.000It's been debated for over 100 years as to whether it's unconstitutional.
00:03:17.000So it's an open question for the court.
00:03:21.000So the issue is which way do we proceed?
00:03:23.000Do we proceed under the unconstitutional statute or do we go back to the original 12th Amendment?
00:03:30.000And it seems to me, and the president hasn't made this decision yet, and the professors, a little dispute, but it seems to me that better practice is to do it under the Constitution.
00:03:42.000You know for sure that that's the procedure.
00:03:44.000When Congress changed it and altered the power, usually the court finds that to be unconstitutional.
00:03:53.000That's how they found the line item veto to be unconstitutional.
00:03:56.000Congress passed it, but then the court said it disrupts the power balance between the president and the Congress.
00:04:06.000Our best academic experts here feel, and I agree with them, that the court will eventually find this to be unconstitutional because it takes some of the power away from the House to pick the president.
00:04:17.000The Constitution gave it only to the House.
00:04:20.000And it takes power away from the state legislatures and it puts the governor in their place in determining who the electors are.
00:04:29.000So there is a lot of confusion around exactly what is going to happen on January the 6th, even with some members of Congress.
00:04:37.000I was talking to a couple members of Congress this morning that plan to object, and they have completely different opinions on exactly what the course of action can be.
00:04:47.000Can you comment on how Vice President Mike Pence very well might have the constitutional authority to not count certain states and their electors?
00:04:56.000In 1960, Richard Nixon did this exactly.
00:05:00.000Well, I can't tell you the decision yet because that decision has to get made by the president and vice president, and they are actually meeting today and going through all the research and all of the, they're probably not going to make that decision until sometime tomorrow because it's a very important one.
00:05:20.000And our party is dedicated to the Constitution.
00:05:25.000We preach that, so we have to follow it.
00:05:27.000So the president will make this decision based on his judgment and the advice that he gets on what the Constitution demands.
00:05:38.000I mean, the choices are that the vice president, when the objections are made, if he follows the statute, which I believe is unconstitutional, but even if he follows just that procedure and borrows it, because he can set any procedure he wants, the way it would work is, let's say Arizona would be the first one to come up.
00:05:57.000And you know, there's an objection to Arizona.
00:06:00.000Not only is there an objection to Arizona, we have elected a separate group of electors for Arizona, and we have given them to the Congress.
00:06:10.000So in essence, the vice president has two sets of electors in front of him.
00:06:15.000He has the ones that come from the governor and the ones that come from us.
00:06:23.000The best, most recent case of that that I can remember, I can't remember, but I can read about, is in 1960, Kennedy and Nixon were very close in Hawaii.
00:07:15.000Had Nixon taken Hawaii, he still would have lost by 30 or 40 electoral votes.
00:07:20.000So we don't know the exact motive, but it does show a consistent practice, even after the new statute, where the vice president makes those choices, not as vice president, but as president of the Senate.
00:07:54.000So this would not be the first time if Mike Pence decides to take that course of action.
00:07:58.000Well, and in addition, in 1876, with President Hayes versus Samuel Tilden, the House and the Senate could not agree on certification of the Electoral College results.
00:08:09.000In 1876, the great compromise of the Great Bargain got negotiated and Reconstruction, unfortunately, ended for a Republican president by one electoral vote.
00:08:21.000So I am of the opinion, and based on all the readings that I have done and also other constitutional scholars that have written on this, because the Supreme Court has yet to decide that the president of the Senate can say, look, I'm not going to necessarily put these results in the president's category.
00:08:38.000I'm just going to say I will not certify or count results that are such in hot, you know, hot contention.
00:09:16.000In other words, in each one of those states, if you credit the evidence that we have, then Trump would have won the state and not by the little margins that Biden won.
00:09:27.000For example, in Pennsylvania, our calculation is that we can prove is they won it by about 400,000.
00:09:36.000Biden won it by 85,000 with immediately 600,000 of those votes being illegal because they were counted secretly.
00:09:47.000And that's illegal under anybody's law.
00:09:52.000So what he's going to have is he's going to have the Biden vote.
00:09:56.000He's going to have all the evidence supporting the Trump vote, which in each case has Trump ahead of Biden, pretty much by over 100,000.
00:10:06.000He could easily say, basically, this is so confusing.
00:10:11.000Rather than make a decision, I am going to just take these.
00:11:51.000It really depends on what the vice president decides.
00:11:55.000If the vice president decides that he's going to follow the guidance of the statute, then he would have two hours of debate, and it happens after each objection.
00:12:10.000We have a senator and a congressman who objects to Arizona.
00:12:13.000You have to have both a senator and a congressman object.
00:12:16.000Once that happens, it doesn't matter how good or bad the objection is.
00:12:20.000They have to go into separate chambers.
00:12:22.000So basically, the Senate goes back to the Senate and they both debate for two hours.
00:12:28.000And then they come back and report their vote.
00:12:32.000And the vice president, I mean, if it's obviously if they vote the same way, it's fine.
00:12:38.000If they vote in conflict, well, then the vice president can clearly decide.
00:12:44.000And if he doesn't agree, he should be able under the 12th Amendment to make his own determination.
00:12:52.000But in any event, the way it will work for the audience is if it works under the rules where we're going to have the two-hour debate, it should happen right away because Arizona comes up right away.
00:13:03.000Minute it comes up, a Republican senator, Republican congressman will object.
00:13:21.000I mean, there are states like New Mexico, Virginia, which we didn't challenge in part because we didn't have the time.
00:13:31.000But there are certainly very, very substantial irregularities and illegalities there that they may fit into the category where you can't determine a winner, but you can determine that the election was illegal, which means they may be candidates for just throwing their vote out because there isn't enough evidence to figure out if Biden had won or Trump had won.
00:13:53.000So, and there may be a few states I'm not even aware of, but New Mexico and Virginia would be interesting to look at.
00:13:59.000I mean, they could be challenged and they could be kind of sleepers.
00:14:02.000I mean, the main ones are Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Arizona, Georgia, and Nevada.
00:14:12.000Those are the six that will clearly be, and those are the six where I have behind me all here, all the evidence that shows that he won those states.
00:14:22.000We can prove it about five different ways.
00:14:25.000And so, each state very well could be a two-hour debate, and then each objection might get, I mean, this could be a very, this could be a multi-hour process, and it seems like the Democrats are going to want to end this altogether.
00:14:38.000Some Republicans are courageously standing up, Senator Ted Cruz and Senator Tommy Tubberville, Senator Marshall Blackburn, but some Republicans are saying this is unconstitutional.
00:14:49.000Some people are even calling this seditious.
00:14:55.000I just described to you all options that are under the Constitution and laws of the United States.
00:15:02.000This is about as careful and as constitutional a process as I've ever seen a president follow.
00:15:09.000He has asked for what are the constitutional options.
00:15:13.000He hasn't asked anybody to go beyond the Constitution.
00:15:16.000And the one that he's going to pick is the one that he thinks is the most constitutional, which ultimately is his choice, but it's based on 100 hours, 200 hours of legal research.
00:15:28.000So anybody who says that is just a liar and forgets that the Democrats objected to the last three Republican presidents and tried to get debates like this.
00:16:34.000And we're supposed to give up that challenge.
00:16:37.000I'm supposed to say, oh, have Georgia, even though I have on television that you stole 130,000 votes in Georgia, which means Trump won by 110,000.
00:16:45.000So in closing, Mr. Mayor, can you tell us why the state legislatures have been so kind of inactive on this?
00:17:11.000He may be the sole reason, along with the governor who should join another political party, Kemp, who's a disgrace.
00:17:17.000I mean, the reality is the state legislatures were good and bad.
00:17:21.000The state legislatures are the only places that gave us a hearing with the younger members who are very strong, loyal Republicans, and put the Constitution first.
00:17:30.000So the reason we got all this evidence out is because of Michigan, Georgia, Arizona legislature has been terrific.
00:17:43.000I know, particularly because I followed Arizona and Georgia the most, they're just a few votes away from decertifying or maybe even certifying.
00:17:53.000In each case, it's the leadership that are being cowards, including in Pennsylvania, there are the two leaders of the House and the Senate are blocking what could be a majority to really qualify as Trump because they have the evidence.
00:19:37.000And they won't call a special session.
00:19:39.000I mean, we should no longer consider them Republicans.
00:19:42.000And we should, in the right spirit, we should write down the names of all these senators who aren't supporting us and have serious consideration as to whether they really belong in the Republican Party.
00:19:51.000Because if we can't have a party, the Democrats ask people to be loyal when they're cheating.
00:19:56.000They've done it at least five times in the last four years.
00:19:59.000And the Democrats remain loyal when they're cheating or when they're saying anti-Semitic remarks like the squad.
00:20:40.000I would, I would, I mean, I find that a fallback.
00:20:44.000I'd rather, if you ask me my options, of course, the option that I would go for the most is certification, then a form of decertification that sends it to the House.
00:20:56.000And if that can't be done, then at a minimum, they should give the state legislatures whose legislators have been denied the basic evidence.
00:21:07.000You know, there's not a single place that's given us a single machine.
00:21:23.000Give me the 10 machines I'd like to look at in Detroit, and I'll show you how they manipulated those machines and change the vote by 2, 3%.
00:21:32.000Did you know you can change the vote in that machine?