The Charlie Kirk Show - FLASH UPDATE with Mayor Rudy Giuliani

00:00:00.000 Hey everybody, on this flash episode of the Charlie Kirk Show, Mr. Mayor Rudy Giuliani joins us.

00:00:05.000 We talk about January 6th, 180 Republicans possibly objecting to the results and so much more.

00:00:13.000 I learned a lot this episode.

00:00:14.000 You are going to learn a lot as well.

00:00:16.000 And if you enjoy our program and want to help support us get this program to millions of more people, go to charliekirk.com slash support.

00:00:26.000 It's charliekirk.com slash support.

00:00:29.000 As always, email us your questions, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:00:32.000 Mr. Mayor, Rudy Giuliani is here.

00:00:35.000 Buckle up.

00:00:36.000 Here we go.

00:00:37.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:39.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campuses.

00:00:41.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

00:00:44.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:00:48.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:00:49.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:00:50.000 His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created.

00:00:57.000 Turning point USA.

00:00:58.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

00:01:07.000 That's why we are here.

00:01:10.000 Welcome, everybody, to this episode of the Charlie Kirk Show, a flash update and with a little bit of sense of urgency with America's mayor, Mr. Mayor himself, Rudy Giuliani.

00:01:19.000 Rudy, welcome back to the Charlie Kirk Show.

00:01:21.000 Oh, it's always a pleasure, Charlie.

00:01:22.000 I love listening to you and I love talking to you even more.

00:01:25.000 So you, we were kind of talking before we started here.

00:01:25.000 Thank you.

00:01:28.000 You said we're on the five-yard line.

00:01:30.000 You have a couple constitutional professors that are going through theories of what the vice president, the president of the Senate can and cannot do.

00:01:37.000 Give us an update.

00:01:40.000 Well, I mean, the fact is that you have a constitutional provision on the Electoral College.

00:01:46.000 Then it got changed by the 12th Amendment because of the confusion in the election of 1800 when Jefferson thought he was elected president and Burr was supposed to be the vice president, but they had the same vote and Burr challenged him.

00:02:00.000 And eventually, Jefferson became president.

00:02:03.000 And the interesting thing to know is he selected himself president.

00:02:08.000 He was the vice president at the time.

00:02:10.000 He was the Mike Pence of his day.

00:02:12.000 There was a dispute about Georgia.

00:02:17.000 Georgia had voted in one case for Burr, in one case for Jefferson, different electors.

00:02:22.000 Jefferson said, I make the decision as the president of the Senate.

00:02:27.000 Basically, I pick me, which is precedent for the vice president making the choices with regard or ruling on disputes.

00:02:38.000 Then you have a statute that was passed in 1788, I believe it was, about that time, and it changes the procedures quite a bit.

00:02:46.000 Problem with the statute is it takes power away from the House of Representatives that is exclusively supposed to choose the president if there's a problem with the electoral college.

00:02:57.000 And it shares that power with the Senate.

00:02:59.000 And it also takes power away from the state legislatures.

00:03:03.000 So our best legal opinion on that is that that's unconstitutional.

00:03:10.000 It's been debated for over 100 years as to whether it's unconstitutional.

00:03:16.000 It's never been challenged in court.

00:03:17.000 So it's an open question for the court.

00:03:21.000 So the issue is which way do we proceed?

00:03:23.000 Do we proceed under the unconstitutional statute or do we go back to the original 12th Amendment?

00:03:30.000 And it seems to me, and the president hasn't made this decision yet, and the professors, a little dispute, but it seems to me that better practice is to do it under the Constitution.

00:03:42.000 You know for sure that that's the procedure.

00:03:44.000 When Congress changed it and altered the power, usually the court finds that to be unconstitutional.

00:03:53.000 That's how they found the line item veto to be unconstitutional.

00:03:56.000 Congress passed it, but then the court said it disrupts the power balance between the president and the Congress.

00:04:03.000 It has to be done by amendment.

00:04:06.000 Our best academic experts here feel, and I agree with them, that the court will eventually find this to be unconstitutional because it takes some of the power away from the House to pick the president.

00:04:17.000 The Constitution gave it only to the House.

00:04:20.000 And it takes power away from the state legislatures and it puts the governor in their place in determining who the electors are.

00:04:27.000 That is clearly unconstitutional.

00:04:29.000 So there is a lot of confusion around exactly what is going to happen on January the 6th, even with some members of Congress.

00:04:37.000 I was talking to a couple members of Congress this morning that plan to object, and they have completely different opinions on exactly what the course of action can be.

00:04:47.000 Can you comment on how Vice President Mike Pence very well might have the constitutional authority to not count certain states and their electors?

00:04:56.000 In 1960, Richard Nixon did this exactly.

00:05:00.000 Well, I can't tell you the decision yet because that decision has to get made by the president and vice president, and they are actually meeting today and going through all the research and all of the, they're probably not going to make that decision until sometime tomorrow because it's a very important one.

00:05:20.000 And our party is dedicated to the Constitution.

00:05:25.000 We preach that, so we have to follow it.

00:05:27.000 So the president will make this decision based on his judgment and the advice that he gets on what the Constitution demands.

00:05:36.000 But I can give you the choices.

00:05:38.000 I mean, the choices are that the vice president, when the objections are made, if he follows the statute, which I believe is unconstitutional, but even if he follows just that procedure and borrows it, because he can set any procedure he wants, the way it would work is, let's say Arizona would be the first one to come up.

00:05:57.000 And you know, there's an objection to Arizona.

00:06:00.000 Not only is there an objection to Arizona, we have elected a separate group of electors for Arizona, and we have given them to the Congress.

00:06:10.000 So in essence, the vice president has two sets of electors in front of him.

00:06:15.000 He has the ones that come from the governor and the ones that come from us.

00:06:21.000 And this is not unusual.

00:06:23.000 The best, most recent case of that that I can remember, I can't remember, but I can read about, is in 1960, Kennedy and Nixon were very close in Hawaii.

00:06:34.000 Nixon won Hawaii on election day.

00:06:37.000 Nixon won Hawaii on the original recount.

00:06:40.000 So when the Electoral College met, they voted for Nixon.

00:06:45.000 Kennedy's people held a separate session with their own electors and submitted their names.

00:06:52.000 On December 29th, a new recount determined that Kennedy had won by 20 votes or something.

00:06:59.000 So now both come before the president of the Senate.

00:07:02.000 The president of the Senate was Richard Nixon.

00:07:05.000 And Nixon selected Kennedy, whereas Jefferson had selected himself.

00:07:11.000 But there may be a reason for that.

00:07:12.000 It wasn't the deciding vote.

00:07:15.000 Had Nixon taken Hawaii, he still would have lost by 30 or 40 electoral votes.

00:07:20.000 So we don't know the exact motive, but it does show a consistent practice, even after the new statute, where the vice president makes those choices, not as vice president, but as president of the Senate.

00:07:32.000 He's the presiding officer.

00:07:34.000 So he generally, the presiding officer, settles disputes like this.

00:07:39.000 You got two contesting groups.

00:07:42.000 These are the proper electors.

00:07:43.000 These are the proper electors.

00:07:45.000 Very often the chair will make that decision.

00:07:48.000 And that's been the practice.

00:07:50.000 I believe Adams did it.

00:07:51.000 Jefferson did it.

00:07:52.000 Nixon did it.

00:07:54.000 So this would not be the first time if Mike Pence decides to take that course of action.

00:07:58.000 Well, and in addition, in 1876, with President Hayes versus Samuel Tilden, the House and the Senate could not agree on certification of the Electoral College results.

00:08:09.000 In 1876, the great compromise of the Great Bargain got negotiated and Reconstruction, unfortunately, ended for a Republican president by one electoral vote.

00:08:21.000 So I am of the opinion, and based on all the readings that I have done and also other constitutional scholars that have written on this, because the Supreme Court has yet to decide that the president of the Senate can say, look, I'm not going to necessarily put these results in the president's category.

00:08:38.000 I'm just going to say I will not certify or count results that are such in hot, you know, hot contention.

00:08:45.000 What states would those be?

00:08:46.000 And is this something that is still being discussed around that kind of strategy?

00:08:50.000 Yes, yes, of course.

00:08:51.000 That's a very, very, that's a very active possibility.

00:08:56.000 I don't know the right way to discuss it, but could easily, they could make that decision.

00:09:00.000 Well, that would be at least six states where there is a dispute where the range is hundreds of thousands of votes.

00:09:11.000 I mean, it's not a small little dispute.

00:09:13.000 It's a determinative number.

00:09:16.000 In other words, in each one of those states, if you credit the evidence that we have, then Trump would have won the state and not by the little margins that Biden won.

00:09:27.000 For example, in Pennsylvania, our calculation is that we can prove is they won it by about 400,000.

00:09:36.000 Biden won it by 85,000 with immediately 600,000 of those votes being illegal because they were counted secretly.

00:09:47.000 And that's illegal under anybody's law.

00:09:52.000 So what he's going to have is he's going to have the Biden vote.

00:09:56.000 He's going to have all the evidence supporting the Trump vote, which in each case has Trump ahead of Biden, pretty much by over 100,000.

00:10:06.000 He could easily say, basically, this is so confusing.

00:10:11.000 Rather than make a decision, I am going to just take these.

00:10:14.000 I'm going to decertify these votes.

00:10:16.000 He could even do it more generally.

00:10:18.000 Those six states also didn't follow their own law in a very, very dramatic way.

00:10:25.000 The legislature sets the law, for example, you must be able to observe every signature.

00:10:30.000 Well, in Pennsylvania, they didn't observe 600,000 signatures on purpose.

00:10:36.000 Same thing in Georgia.

00:10:39.000 The Secretary of State made a deal with Stacey Abrams that they weren't going to particularly look at all the signatures.

00:10:45.000 That's illegal.

00:10:46.000 So before you even get to who won, who lost, he could say in these states, the election was conducted illegally in these six states.

00:10:55.000 Therefore, I'm throwing their votes out.

00:10:57.000 They're going to be not certified.

00:11:00.000 That would leave, if I'm correct, that would leave Trump at 233 and it would put Biden at about 230.

00:11:08.000 Nobody has a majority.

00:11:10.000 It immediately goes to the House of Representatives in that case.

00:11:14.000 In the House of Representatives, we have a three, four vote advantage because you get one single vote per delegation.

00:11:23.000 So we have 26, 27 delegations.

00:11:26.000 They have to balance them.

00:11:27.000 So that is a very, very strong possibility.

00:11:30.000 Absolutely.

00:11:31.000 And so can you also walk our listeners through exactly what we can expect with these objections?

00:11:37.000 There's a lot of uncertainty.

00:11:40.000 Do they, not uncertainty?

00:11:41.000 There's a lot of people that are just looking for clarity.

00:11:44.000 Is it two hours of debate per objection?

00:11:47.000 Does it then go to roll call votes?

00:11:49.000 How does exactly that work?

00:11:51.000 It really depends on what the vice president decides.

00:11:55.000 If the vice president decides that he's going to follow the guidance of the statute, then he would have two hours of debate, and it happens after each objection.

00:12:07.000 So Arizona comes up.

00:12:10.000 We have a senator and a congressman who objects to Arizona.

00:12:13.000 You have to have both a senator and a congressman object.

00:12:16.000 Once that happens, it doesn't matter how good or bad the objection is.

00:12:20.000 They have to go into separate chambers.

00:12:22.000 So basically, the Senate goes back to the Senate and they both debate for two hours.

00:12:28.000 And then they come back and report their vote.

00:12:32.000 And the vice president, I mean, if it's obviously if they vote the same way, it's fine.

00:12:38.000 If they vote in conflict, well, then the vice president can clearly decide.

00:12:44.000 And if he doesn't agree, he should be able under the 12th Amendment to make his own determination.

00:12:52.000 But in any event, the way it will work for the audience is if it works under the rules where we're going to have the two-hour debate, it should happen right away because Arizona comes up right away.

00:13:03.000 Minute it comes up, a Republican senator, Republican congressman will object.

00:13:10.000 That triggers a two-hour debate.

00:13:12.000 Then you move on.

00:13:13.000 The next state that comes up where there's an objection, debate.

00:13:16.000 Next state, debate.

00:13:18.000 At least six, could be 10.

00:13:21.000 I mean, there are states like New Mexico, Virginia, which we didn't challenge in part because we didn't have the time.

00:13:31.000 But there are certainly very, very substantial irregularities and illegalities there that they may fit into the category where you can't determine a winner, but you can determine that the election was illegal, which means they may be candidates for just throwing their vote out because there isn't enough evidence to figure out if Biden had won or Trump had won.

00:13:53.000 So, and there may be a few states I'm not even aware of, but New Mexico and Virginia would be interesting to look at.

00:13:59.000 I mean, they could be challenged and they could be kind of sleepers.

00:14:02.000 I mean, the main ones are Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Arizona, Georgia, and Nevada.

00:14:12.000 Those are the six that will clearly be, and those are the six where I have behind me all here, all the evidence that shows that he won those states.

00:14:22.000 We can prove it about five different ways.

00:14:25.000 And so, each state very well could be a two-hour debate, and then each objection might get, I mean, this could be a very, this could be a multi-hour process, and it seems like the Democrats are going to want to end this altogether.

00:14:38.000 Some Republicans are courageously standing up, Senator Ted Cruz and Senator Tommy Tubberville, Senator Marshall Blackburn, but some Republicans are saying this is unconstitutional.

00:14:49.000 Some people are even calling this seditious.

00:14:53.000 What do you have to say about that?

00:14:55.000 I just described to you all options that are under the Constitution and laws of the United States.

00:15:02.000 This is about as careful and as constitutional a process as I've ever seen a president follow.

00:15:09.000 He has asked for what are the constitutional options.

00:15:13.000 He hasn't asked anybody to go beyond the Constitution.

00:15:16.000 And the one that he's going to pick is the one that he thinks is the most constitutional, which ultimately is his choice, but it's based on 100 hours, 200 hours of legal research.

00:15:28.000 So anybody who says that is just a liar and forgets that the Democrats objected to the last three Republican presidents and tried to get debates like this.

00:15:38.000 What was that sedition?

00:15:41.000 When they tried to have this kind of a debate over Bush in 2000, Bush in 2004 Over Trump the first time.

00:15:51.000 So we're just doing what they did, except they had no evidence.

00:15:55.000 We have the kind of evidence that I find stronger than when I prosecuted cases of U.S. attorney.

00:16:02.000 I mean, it's very powerful evidence.

00:16:03.000 Some of it's on television.

00:16:05.000 We can prove Georgia, we can prove he won Georgia, and we can put it on television and show you.

00:16:12.000 We can show you them counting 30,000 illegal ballots because nobody was present.

00:16:18.000 and then turning the 30,000 into 138,000 because they counted them multiple times.

00:16:23.000 And we have to print out and the film.

00:16:26.000 I mean, that should decide Georgia without anything else.

00:16:31.000 Yeah, and the amount.

00:16:34.000 And we're supposed to give up that challenge.

00:16:37.000 I'm supposed to say, oh, have Georgia, even though I have on television that you stole 130,000 votes in Georgia, which means Trump won by 110,000.

00:16:45.000 So in closing, Mr. Mayor, can you tell us why the state legislatures have been so kind of inactive on this?

00:16:52.000 They have so much power.

00:16:54.000 A lot of them did not even call special sessions in December.

00:16:57.000 Arizona, for example, where we are right now, the leader of the Arizona House has been totally feckless, horrible.

00:17:05.000 Why?

00:17:06.000 Remember his name?

00:17:08.000 Brady Bowers or something.

00:17:09.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:17:10.000 Yeah. 0.86

00:17:11.000 He may be the sole reason, along with the governor who should join another political party, Kemp, who's a disgrace.

00:17:17.000 I mean, the reality is the state legislatures were good and bad.

00:17:21.000 The state legislatures are the only places that gave us a hearing with the younger members who are very strong, loyal Republicans, and put the Constitution first.

00:17:30.000 So the reason we got all this evidence out is because of Michigan, Georgia, Arizona legislature has been terrific.

00:17:41.000 That's where we got the evidence at.

00:17:43.000 I know, particularly because I followed Arizona and Georgia the most, they're just a few votes away from decertifying or maybe even certifying.

00:17:53.000 In each case, it's the leadership that are being cowards, including in Pennsylvania, there are the two leaders of the House and the Senate are blocking what could be a majority to really qualify as Trump because they have the evidence.

00:18:11.000 He won Pennsylvania by over 400,000.

00:18:14.000 It was not even close.

00:18:15.000 It's a disgrace what they're doing in Pennsylvania.

00:18:17.000 He has the votes.

00:18:18.000 He just has two leaders who are afraid.

00:18:23.000 And, you know, it stands to reason, Charlie.

00:18:25.000 The leaders get into the establishment.

00:18:28.000 They make deals.

00:18:28.000 They're making deals with Democrats all the time.

00:18:31.000 They're making deals with businesses all the time.

00:18:34.000 I think you get a much purer read when you talk to the regular members.

00:18:38.000 And it's interesting.

00:18:40.000 The newer the member, the more outraged he is by this theft.

00:18:46.000 But in each case, we got close to a majority of Republicans. 0.97

00:18:51.000 And it's because of Governor Kemp and Rafsenberger, who I think is a liar. 1.00

00:18:59.000 I can't say yet that he's a crook, but he's certainly a big liar. 0.98

00:19:03.000 Two Republicans, and then Speaker Ralston, who won't call a session. 0.94

00:19:13.000 If they called a session in Georgia, I guarantee you the vote would be Trump won, Biden lost.

00:19:20.000 Arizona, same thing.

00:19:22.000 And why the governors don't allow their legislatures just to do it?

00:19:27.000 This is outrageous.

00:19:28.000 All we're asking two Republican governors to do is let your legislature vote.

00:19:33.000 And it's their responsibility, not yours. 0.99

00:19:36.000 Let them vote.

00:19:37.000 And they won't call a special session.

00:19:39.000 I mean, we should no longer consider them Republicans.

00:19:42.000 And we should, in the right spirit, we should write down the names of all these senators who aren't supporting us and have serious consideration as to whether they really belong in the Republican Party.

00:19:51.000 Because if we can't have a party, the Democrats ask people to be loyal when they're cheating.

00:19:56.000 They've done it at least five times in the last four years.

00:19:59.000 And the Democrats remain loyal when they're cheating or when they're saying anti-Semitic remarks like the squad.

00:20:08.000 They all remain loyal.

00:20:09.000 They all remain loyal.

00:20:10.000 We're asking them to follow the law.

00:20:13.000 I believe we're asking them to save the country. 0.99

00:20:16.000 And they're running off like cowards. 0.99

00:20:18.000 That's right. 0.94

00:20:19.000 What kind of a what how are they helping our political party to grow based on the principled things we want to do for the country?

00:20:27.000 They're cutting that off.

00:20:28.000 And I think we got to remember that when primaries come up.

00:20:32.000 I completely agree.

00:20:33.000 And so Senator Ted Cruz is calling for a 10-day audit.

00:20:36.000 Is that right?

00:20:38.000 He is.

00:20:40.000 I would, I would, I mean, I find that a fallback.

00:20:44.000 I'd rather, if you ask me my options, of course, the option that I would go for the most is certification, then a form of decertification that sends it to the House.

00:20:56.000 And if that can't be done, then at a minimum, they should give the state legislatures whose legislators have been denied the basic evidence.

00:21:07.000 You know, there's not a single place that's given us a single machine.

00:21:10.000 They're covering up the machines.

00:21:13.000 The machines aren't sacred.

00:21:14.000 The machines aren't privileged.

00:21:15.000 We only want the numbers.

00:21:17.000 You give us 20 of those dominion machines.

00:21:19.000 We'll flip the entire election.

00:21:22.000 Give me the 10 machine.

00:21:23.000 Give me the 10 machines I'd like to look at in Detroit, and I'll show you how they manipulated those machines and change the vote by 2, 3%.

00:21:32.000 Did you know you can change the vote in that machine?

00:21:35.000 You can actually change the vote.

00:21:37.000 Why would you have a voting machine where you could change the vote unless you wanted to cheat?

00:21:42.000 You can invade the vote by internet.

00:21:46.000 They claim they didn't do it.

00:21:48.000 We have pictures of them doing it.

00:21:50.000 So give us those machines. 0.89

00:21:51.000 We'll turn the election around.

00:21:53.000 So they're all covering them up, including the Republicans.

00:21:55.000 Give us the paper mail ballots.

00:21:57.000 Just the paper mail ballots.

00:21:59.000 Just hand them over for inspection.

00:22:01.000 They're not yours.

00:22:02.000 They're the government.

00:22:03.000 We won't do that either.

00:22:04.000 So that 10-day period could allow us to show how many phony ballots were entered because we have a process.

00:22:12.000 We have an expert who can separate them.

00:22:14.000 And he can do all of it in three days.

00:22:17.000 In three days, we can be sure whether those nail-in ballots were legitimate or illegitimate.

00:22:22.000 And I'm willing to guarantee you that they're either illegitimate or somebody burned them, which is another possibility.

00:22:31.000 Well, Mr. Mayor, thank you for the phenomenal work you're doing for our country.

00:22:34.000 In closing, how can people help and how can people stay involved in this right now?

00:22:41.000 Right now, talk to your talk to your senators and congressmen.

00:22:47.000 The ones that aren't aboard yet.

00:22:49.000 I think we're going to have almost the whole house.

00:22:51.000 And when we were up to 150, 160, bare minimum, 180.

00:22:56.000 Now you're getting close to just a few more, and we have the entire house.

00:23:00.000 The Senate is very disappointed. 0.99

00:23:02.000 And I'll tell you, the establishment Republicans are a disgrace. 0.92

00:23:07.000 They're like, I mean, I will, if we don't win, I will dedicate my time to trying to clean up the Republican Party of the traitors. 0.98

00:23:19.000 We don't need traitors.

00:23:21.000 And if you were asking them to do something wrong, of course they shouldn't do it.

00:23:26.000 We are asking them to really perform their constitutional duties and their hands are shaken because they're afraid of big business.

00:23:33.000 They're afraid of the newspapers.

00:23:34.000 They're afraid of the Washington Post.

00:23:36.000 If you have so little courage, you don't belong representing other people.

00:23:40.000 Go find somebody who has courage to represent you, not someone who can get rolled by the Washington Post.

00:23:46.000 I agree.

00:23:46.000 Well, Mr. Mayor, keep up the fight.

00:23:48.000 We'll be watching.

00:23:49.000 We got your back.

00:23:50.000 Thank you, Charlie.

00:23:50.000 Thank you.

00:23:51.000 Thank you.

00:23:51.000 See you soon.

00:23:52.000 You've been great.

00:23:52.000 Thank you.

00:23:53.000 Unbelievable.

00:23:54.000 Thank you.

00:23:57.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:23:59.000 Email us your questions.

00:24:00.000 As always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:24:03.000 If you want to get involved with Turning Point USA, go to tpusa.com, tpusa.com.

00:24:09.000 And if you want to support us, go to charliekirk.com/slash support.

00:24:13.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:24:15.000 God bless.

The Charlie Kirk Show - January 04, 2021

FLASH UPDATE with Mayor Rudy Giuliani

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