The Charlie Kirk Show - June 13, 2023


"Get Trump": The Rosetta Stone of 2023 with Alan Dershowitz, Donald Trump Jr., and Ben Bergquam


Episode Stats


Length

32 minutes

Words per minute

175.90424

Word count

5,755

Sentence count

448

Harmful content

Misogyny

4

sentences flagged

Toxicity

1

sentences flagged

Hate speech

9

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Alan Dershowitz joins us for his analysis of the Trump indictment, we ask a lot of questions, and then we have Donald Trump Jr. for his immediate reaction as well on this dark day for our republic.

Transcript

Transcripts from "The Charlie Kirk Show" are sourced from the Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool. Explore them interactively here.
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Hey everybody, Tan the Charlie Kirk Show.
00:00:01.000 Alan Dershowitz joins us for his analysis of the Trump indictment.
00:00:06.000 We ask a lot of questions.
00:00:08.000 And then we have Donald Trump Jr. for his immediate reaction as well on this dark day for America.
00:00:13.000 Email us freedom at charliekirk.com and subscribe to our podcast.
00:00:17.000 Open up your podcast app and type in Charlie Kirk Show.
00:00:20.000 Get involved with TurningpointUSA at tpusa.com and attend our Turning Point Action Action Conference with President Trump, Tucker Carlson, and more.
00:00:31.000 That is tpaction.com, tpaction.com.
00:00:36.000 Check it out.
00:00:37.000 Buckle up, everybody.
00:00:38.000 Here we go.
00:00:39.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
00:00:41.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.
00:00:43.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.
00:00:46.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.
00:00:50.000 I want to thank Charlie.
00:00:51.000 He's an incredible guy.
00:00:52.000 His spirit, his love of this country.
00:00:53.000 He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.
00:01:00.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
00:01:09.000 That's why we are here.
00:01:12.000 Brought to you by the Loan Experts I Trust, Andrew and Todd at Sierra Pacific Mortgage at andrewandTodd.com.
00:01:22.000 Joining us now is Donald Trump Jr. on this unfortunate day for our Republic.
00:01:27.000 Don, welcome back to the program.
00:01:28.000 Thanks for making time.
00:01:30.000 Don, top of mind thoughts, what's going through kind of your mind and the family's mind?
00:01:36.000 We're with you 100%.
00:01:37.000 Don, walk us through it.
00:01:39.000 Well, we appreciate it, Charlie.
00:01:40.000 Listen, it sounds crazy to say it, but at this point, it just sort of feels like ordinary course of business.
00:01:46.000 Just another day, another corrupt regime going through the motions.
00:01:52.000 You'd never think you could actually see this stuff happening in the United States of America.
00:01:56.000 This is the stuff that would make Stalin and Mao blush, and yet it's happening before our very eyes.
00:02:03.000 You have prosecutors with terrible, corrupted track records.
00:02:08.000 You have a war crimes prosecutor prosecuting something that literally it seems every president in the last half century has done.
00:02:17.000 But of course, you know, there's a different standard for Donald Trump than there is for Bill Clinton.
00:02:22.000 There seems to be a very different standard for anyone in the Democrat Party versus really the rest of us.
00:02:28.000 We're seeing that unfold, and it's just a really sad state of affairs.
00:02:32.000 Yeah, Jack Smith was overturned 9-0 at the United States Supreme Court for the whole, I believe it was Terry McAuliffe situation that he was involved in.
00:02:41.000 And so there's I think it was, yeah, it was the governor versus the...
00:02:45.000 Oh, there's Bob McConnell or something.
00:02:47.000 Yeah, Bob McCullough.
00:02:48.000 Bob McDonald's.
00:02:49.000 Bob McDonald.
00:02:50.000 And yeah, 8-0, I guess someone had to recuse themselves that day or was absent.
00:02:54.000 But it was, you know, those are the tactics. 0.94
00:02:57.000 And if you look at the prosecutor actually trying the case down in Miami, she is someone that had to resign from her role in the DOJ for literally wiretapping the defense while prosecuting a crime. 0.74
00:03:13.000 Wiretapping the attorneys on the other side.
00:03:16.000 I mean, think of how corrupt you have to be.
00:03:18.000 But that's what it is, Charlie.
00:03:20.000 You have credible evidence of Biden and bribery and whistleblowers and all of the Hunter Biden stuff that no one can explain why he's making millions from the countries that Joe Biden has power of.
00:03:31.000 And all of a sudden, magically, he transforms into an international man of business from Crackhead.
00:03:37.000 Doesn't happen all that often, but I guess there could be exceptions.
00:03:40.000 And no one wants to look into it.
00:03:44.000 The alleged person looking into that is totally missing.
00:03:47.000 And it's probably a Biden person that's not going to do anything, but it's under the guise of pretending to look into something.
00:03:53.000 Of course, nothing will happen.
00:03:54.000 We've seen this play out before.
00:03:58.000 But it's a sad state of affairs.
00:03:59.000 When I spoke to my dad yesterday, he was in really good spirits.
00:04:02.000 I guess it's not a normal response, but I guess you just, at this point, you're just used to it.
00:04:07.000 We shouldn't have to be, but you are because that onslaught's been going on for seven years.
00:04:14.000 So, Vivek Ramaswamy, Don is the only candidate of the field that is there in Miami.
00:04:21.000 What do you think this teaches us about the Republican field?
00:04:25.000 This is not about Trump.
00:04:26.000 This is much bigger.
00:04:27.000 This is about our system of government.
00:04:29.000 This is about our traditions.
00:04:31.000 And yet, Don, most of these Republicans are nowhere to be found.
00:04:35.000 What do you think that teaches us?
00:04:38.000 Listen, it teaches us that they're out for themselves.
00:04:40.000 And again, by the way, one day, if they ever get some sort of power, this stuff will be used by Democrats against them.
00:04:49.000 In the meantime, they're perfectly fine weaponizing our government to take out the one guy that's going to win, where they have zero chance.
00:04:57.000 You saw that with DeSantis last month where, oh, that's not really a big deal.
00:05:02.000 It's a sham right before this stuff started hitting.
00:05:07.000 It's a shame that those guys are so weak, that they're so controlled, because I really wish we had a deeper bench.
00:05:12.000 I truly mean that, Charlie.
00:05:14.000 I wish we had other Republicans that had some guts.
00:05:19.000 And we don't.
00:05:20.000 And that's been clear.
00:05:21.000 The second it looks like they have some guts, their donors get a hold of them like they did with DeSantis in Ukraine when he flip-flop and couldn't make up his mind.
00:05:28.000 I mean, they're just controlled opposition.
00:05:31.000 They don't have any guts.
00:05:32.000 They don't have any independent thought.
00:05:34.000 They do what their consultants or what their donors tell them.
00:05:37.000 And otherwise, they're robots.
00:05:39.000 And they're perfectly content allowing this great miscarriage of justice to go forward as long as it allows them to amass a little bit of power.
00:05:47.000 Because honestly, that's what we've seen from the uni party.
00:05:49.000 It's all about power, right?
00:05:51.000 You don't see anyone actually stepping out and fighting these things that are actually from that system because they've done very well with that system.
00:05:58.000 That system has allowed otherwise very average individuals to thrive, to attain a lot of power, to get wealthy, to get on boards.
00:06:08.000 These are people that have been nothing but bureaucrats.
00:06:10.000 It's a shame to see it.
00:06:12.000 Yeah, so Don, what is then the attitude and the kind of vibe within the campaign right now?
00:06:19.000 President Trump went on Roger Stone's program and said, I'm not going to drop out under any circumstances.
00:06:25.000 I mean, you've known him for a while.
00:06:27.000 When his back's against the wall, he only fights harder.
00:06:30.000 Tell us, you know, the plan, the strategy, despite the most power ever thrown at a presidential candidate.
00:06:38.000 You guys continue to fight.
00:06:40.000 Walk us through it.
00:06:42.000 Well, listen, whether it's for better or worse, it's just the way we're made up, right, Charlie?
00:06:46.000 I mean, I think that's why he's the guy to go back to D.C. He's the guy now with the inside knowledge, with the understanding of how those systems really work, right?
00:06:55.000 In 16, you didn't have any idea.
00:06:57.000 You know, now we know.
00:06:58.000 Now we've seen the people who are good, the people who are terrible.
00:07:02.000 And you can go back and clean house because that's what you need to do.
00:07:05.000 So, you know, fighting, you know, and people don't necessarily always love it about Trump, but, you know, he's always going to fight.
00:07:12.000 And I think, you know, looking at it now, you know, through this lens, you understand why you always have to fight.
00:07:20.000 You understand why Trump has the attitude that he has.
00:07:23.000 I mean, they've gone after him.
00:07:24.000 They've gone after his family.
00:07:26.000 They've gone after his businesses.
00:07:27.000 It never stops.
00:07:29.000 But we actually need someone who's willing to fight.
00:07:32.000 And, you know, again, unfortunately, because I actually believe in this stuff, I wish we had a much deeper bench.
00:07:37.000 I wish we had a lot more Republicans that were willing to fight.
00:07:41.000 Frankly, you know, for me, as a business guy from the Trump Ward perspective, as a father, hey, it'd be a lot easier if he didn't do this, but we need him to do this because he's the only one that can clean up this very broken and very corrupted system.
00:07:56.000 That is exactly right.
00:07:57.000 And I mean, it's just very telling right now where you got cameras galore and these candidates are nowhere to be found.
00:08:03.000 And so the.
00:08:05.000 No, it's crazy.
00:08:06.000 And again, and no one's asking the questions about the corruption.
00:08:09.000 I had Kash Patel on my triggered podcast last night.
00:08:13.000 And he was a criminal defense attorney down in Miami dealing with the same people in there.
00:08:18.000 Plus, obviously, as deputy director of national intelligence, understood the deep state side as well as sort of the Miami prosecutor side.
00:08:27.000 I think you get a real good breakdown of all of the details, just how insane this is.
00:08:32.000 Again, using a corrupt war crimes prosecutor to go after a documents case.
00:08:40.000 You have the Bill Clinton examples where it's like literally the only precedent out there.
00:08:45.000 And it's like, hey, totally fine.
00:08:46.000 It's totally clear.
00:08:47.000 He's this.
00:08:47.000 They want to throw Trump away, Charlie, just so we understand.
00:08:51.000 Like, this isn't like a couple of weeks and a slap on the wrist with the charges put forth, 37 charges and 450 years behind bars.
00:09:01.000 I mean, you know, that just shows you the insanity that we're dealing with.
00:09:06.000 So I break that down in the podcast pretty heavily.
00:09:08.000 If people want the details, you know, they can go check that out. 0.84
00:09:12.000 But, you know, it's ludicrous.
00:09:14.000 It's never been done before.
00:09:16.000 You know, but I think if they do it now and they have success, I imagine this will become the modus operandi for the people in power.
00:09:25.000 This is the stuff that our media, our government criticizes when it happens in a place like Russia with Putin or in China.
00:09:35.000 And yet it's happening right here in the United States.
00:09:37.000 And they're totally content with it because Trump is the one threat to the hegemony that they have and the control and power that they've amassed for no good reason over such a long period of time.
00:09:48.000 We would sanction countries.
00:09:50.000 We would introduce resolutions at the United Nations and potentially even invade them for what we are now doing domestically.
00:09:58.000 Makes you think.
00:09:59.000 Don, thank you so much.
00:10:00.000 And check out his show on rumble.com.
00:10:02.000 Don, thanks so much.
00:10:03.000 Thank you, Charlie.
00:10:08.000 Hey, everybody, Charlie Kirk here.
00:10:09.000 Every day, the parallel economy grows bigger and bigger.
00:10:12.000 It's powered by everyday Americans who are sick and tired of all the woke nonsense being jammed into every product they consume.
00:10:18.000 Big mobile companies are no different.
00:10:20.000 For years, they've been dumping millions into left-wing causes, and we had to take it because you need a cell phone and probably thought that there was no alternative.
00:10:28.000 But there is.
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00:10:53.000 Just go to patriotmobile.com/slash Charlie or call 878-PARTIOT, get free activation today with the offer code Charlie.
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00:11:12.000 Ben Berkwam is with us live from Miami, Florida.
00:11:16.000 Ben, what are you hearing and seeing on the ground as things start to heat up there?
00:11:21.000 Hey, Charlie.
00:11:21.000 Well, we've got a crew out here, Real America's Voice.
00:11:24.000 And here's what do you guys think of Charlie Kirk?
00:11:28.000 Charlie!
00:11:36.000 And what about Trump?
00:11:40.000 We want Charlie!
00:11:41.000 We want Trump!
00:11:48.000 They're not shy about it, Charlie.
00:11:50.000 They're not shy about it.
00:11:51.000 And actually, I've got a friend of yours out here.
00:11:53.000 We actually, I was walking around.
00:11:54.000 Saw these lovely ladies over here, and I looked over and I was like, wait a second, turning point action in the house.
00:11:59.000 She was actually at that young ladies' leadership, young women's leadership summit. 0.96
00:12:04.000 Talk to me about that. 0.99
00:12:05.000 So it was a great weekend with a lot of patriotic ladies.
00:12:08.000 Well, I'm back home, and now we're getting to work.
00:12:10.000 We're making sure that people that want to see change actually make it happen by getting involved in your local county GOP.
00:12:16.000 And the way to do that is by becoming a PC or a precinct person.
00:12:20.000 So I've met a lot of people out here today that are frustrated by what's going on in the country, what's going on in the party, even, and they are happy to sign up to be a precinct committee person and really make a voice and make a change.
00:12:33.000 To that point, let me go over here.
00:12:35.000 What do you guys think?
00:12:36.000 We were Charlie, you and I were just talking about this.
00:12:38.000 What do you think that Vivek was the only Republican candidate that came out today?
00:12:42.000 What do you think about DeSantis not being out here?
00:12:44.000 Any of these other Republican congression or presidential candidates not being out here?
00:12:50.000 Well, if it happens to Trump, it could happen to anybody.
00:12:53.000 So this is about the justice system to correct what's going on, to have not a different status for everybody.
00:13:02.000 Everybody, everybody is the same.
00:13:03.000 So why not investigate Biden, Hunter, Hillary, and everybody that's from the other side?
00:13:09.000 And they should be here to support, to support our nation, to support the country, to support their party, to support their party.
00:13:17.000 You know what I mean?
00:13:19.000 And so that's why we're here.
00:13:20.000 We're here to support the party.
00:13:22.000 We're here to support with the people.
00:13:24.000 We're here to see Make America great again.
00:13:27.000 I come from Cuba, so I know what communism looks like.
00:13:30.000 And, you know, this lady was saying we're from China here.
00:13:33.000 Cubans, Venezuelans, we're from all over the world, Colombia, people that have left communism.
00:13:39.000 And that's what we're here.
00:13:41.000 We want a free country here in this United States of America.
00:13:45.000 That's it.
00:13:45.000 That's it, Charlie.
00:13:46.000 I have people from all over.
00:13:47.000 I got people with a lot of Cuban Americans, obviously, down here in South Florida.
00:13:52.000 A lot of Venezuelan Americans down here as well.
00:13:54.000 But again, you got a lot of Chinese here as well from China, now American citizens that are saying they did it to us, they destroyed us. 0.80
00:14:01.000 And if they do it to America, there's nowhere else to go. 0.97
00:14:03.000 Same playbook.
00:14:04.000 The playbook of the tyrant doesn't change.
00:14:06.000 Ben, can you ask somebody there?
00:14:07.000 And by the way, Drianna's doing a great job with us at Turning Point Action.
00:14:10.000 I don't see the RNC there, but I see Turning Point Action.
00:14:13.000 Yeah, I see Turning Point Action in the trenches, in the weeds.
00:14:16.000 That's what Turning Point Action is all about, building the actual opposition party.
00:14:20.000 But Ben, ask somebody around, does this make people support Trump more?
00:14:25.000 And what are they hearing or seeing just because the media makes it seem as if, oh, Trump's support is going to collapse because of this?
00:14:32.000 Two minutes, Ben.
00:14:33.000 Yeah, let me ask you: does this make you support President Trump more or less by what they're doing to him?
00:14:38.000 Absolutely more.
00:14:40.000 Because that is really recognizing that the judiciary system against their opponents, it's really never happened in this country before, and it's not supposed to be that way.
00:14:57.000 So I think...
00:14:59.000 Where are you originally from?
00:15:00.000 I'm originally from China.
00:15:02.000 Yeah.
00:15:02.000 Down at the CCP.
00:15:06.000 I'm a Charlie's friend.
00:15:07.000 Charlie, I'm a Professor Wong.
00:15:09.000 You remember me.
00:15:09.000 I donate a lot to turning point USA.
00:15:13.000 I go for your cause.
00:15:14.000 I think you're the future star.
00:15:16.000 And I think, you know, I like the way you say in your interview with Megan Jolly.
00:15:24.000 I totally 100% with what you think about DeSandos.
00:15:29.000 I'm the same, exactly, the same opinion with you.
00:15:32.000 Thank you, sir.
00:15:33.000 Okay, real quick, guys.
00:15:34.000 Does it make you support him more or less, President Trump?
00:15:40.000 100%.
00:15:41.000 100% more.
00:15:44.000 100% more, Charlie.
00:15:45.000 100% more.
00:15:46.000 Anyone, does it make anyone support President Trump less by what they're doing to him?
00:15:52.000 At least with the group we have here, Charlie.
00:15:54.000 Not at all.
00:15:55.000 In fact, everyone that I've spoken to, they're pissed off.
00:15:58.000 And again, the message is if they can do it to President Trump, they can do it to anyone.
00:16:02.000 And if they can do it to America, the world is gone.
00:16:05.000 Ben, you are a professional.
00:16:07.000 You're the best of the business.
00:16:08.000 And I'm curious just more about the absence of these other candidates.
00:16:12.000 What a missed opportunity.
00:16:13.000 Days like this don't come along very often.
00:16:19.000 People ask me all the time when I travel about Strong Cell.
00:16:22.000 Charlie, is Strong Cell legit?
00:16:23.000 Charlie, do you really believe in the anti-aging properties of NADH?
00:16:27.000 Well, it's not a matter of whether or not, if I believe it, it's the science.
00:16:29.000 You guys could check it out.
00:16:30.000 Fact check me, look at NAD and see what it could do for you.
00:16:32.000 Well, look, I take NAD every single day.
00:16:35.000 Strong Cell is a scientific breakthrough in cellular health replenishment that combines NADH, CoQ10, and marine collagen to boost your body's cellular function.
00:16:43.000 I personally take Strong Cell every day, and so do a ton of Kirk listeners.
00:16:47.000 Go see the reviews for yourself.
00:16:48.000 If you are someone who relies on caffeine or sugar to get yourself going, then you have to give Strong Cell a try.
00:16:53.000 I only have one important request as I recommend this life-changing product.
00:16:56.000 You've got to give it at least four weeks to realize the best results.
00:16:59.000 It takes a little time to re-engineer your body's NADH.
00:17:02.000 Think about it.
00:17:02.000 It's been on decline in your middle-aged body for a year or so.
00:17:05.000 So check it out.
00:17:06.000 Go to strongcell.com forward slash Charlie and read the personal testimonies for yourself.
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00:17:24.000 Joining us now is Professor Alan Dershowitz, author of the very timely book, Get Trump.
00:17:29.000 Professor, I joke around last time you were on.
00:17:32.000 You happened to write the right book for the right time, my friend.
00:17:35.000 I think you have more, just let's say, commentary to give on this book than you probably could have imagined.
00:17:42.000 This indictment I have right now, you have called on this program the most serious of all the potential indictments against Donald Trump.
00:17:49.000 Do you still feel that way now actually reading the indictment itself?
00:17:54.000 I do, especially the provision in which Donald Trump foolishly waved some paper in front of a reporter while he was being recorded by his own staff.
00:18:05.000 And he said, I could have declassified this, but I didn't.
00:18:08.000 So it's still secret.
00:18:10.000 And it has to do with a battle attack plan for Iran.
00:18:14.000 It's not a smoking gun, but it's surely a gun with Trump's fingerprints on it.
00:18:20.000 And his lawyers will have to explain that away.
00:18:22.000 They may argue, look, it was just puffery.
00:18:25.000 He didn't really show them anything.
00:18:27.000 He just waved it in front of them.
00:18:29.000 But it seems like it's an admission that he had material that he knew he had not declassified.
00:18:36.000 So it's the hardest piece of evidence to overcome.
00:18:40.000 On the other hand, clearly he was targeted.
00:18:43.000 They never would have come up with this piece of evidence if they had treated him equally under the law.
00:18:49.000 Remember, the special prosecutor wasn't asked to look into everybody who may have mishandled classified material.
00:18:56.000 He was tasked only with getting Trump.
00:18:59.000 He was tasked, get him in Florida.
00:19:01.000 If you can't get him in Florida, get him in Georgia.
00:19:04.000 If you can't get him in Georgia, get him in D.C.
00:19:08.000 This followed Alfred Bragg saying, I'm going to get him or else don't vote for me for election.
00:19:14.000 And he came up with the worst possible weakest indictment ever.
00:19:18.000 But this indictment is stronger and his lawyers will have a hard time challenging.
00:19:23.000 And he's having a hard time getting lawyers because we have this Project 65 out there, a bunch of radical McCarthyite lawyers who are threatening to disbar any lawyer who represents Donald Trump.
00:19:37.000 And many lawyers, I've spoken to them, won't take the Trump case because they are fearful that they will be disciplined by the Bar Association if they do.
00:19:47.000 This is a really important point, Professor.
00:19:49.000 I just want to zero in on this.
00:19:50.000 The 65 project is basically a sword of Damocles that has been created over any lawyer that might come in Donald Trump's orbit.
00:20:01.000 It's organized with a very specific intention, which is this.
00:20:06.000 The 65 Project is a campaign targeting lawyers who aided attempts to try and represent Donald Trump.
00:20:13.000 So people are afraid that they might get disbarred and their reputation, full-out intimidation, Professor.
00:20:20.000 Let me add one thing.
00:20:21.000 It's not the sword of Damocles because it's already dropped.
00:20:24.000 For example, I wrote an op-ed in which I said, if you go after any lawyers, I will represent them pro bono because this is such an important attack on the Sixth Amendment.
00:20:35.000 And what do you think they did?
00:20:36.000 They filed a bar charge against me.
00:20:39.000 And now I have a bar charge against me.
00:20:41.000 I've had to hire a lawyer.
00:20:42.000 You know, it's an absurd bar charge, but it's against me.
00:20:46.000 And I've spoken to at least three lawyers recently who knew that and understand that they will be attacked and their bar certificates will be questioned if they represent Donald Trump.
00:21:00.000 Can you ever get a fair trial under those circumstances?
00:21:04.000 I don't think so.
00:21:04.000 And then there's this other issue.
00:21:06.000 It is alleged, and I haven't seen the proof, but it's alleged that one of the prosecutors for the special prosecutor said to the lawyer for the co-defendant, the young Navy man, look, I know you're up for a judgeship in the District of Columbia.
00:21:23.000 Maybe you'd have a better chance of getting the judgeship if you flipped your witness and have him cooperate with us.
00:21:29.000 If that's true, it should result in the charges against the co-conspirator being dropped.
00:21:34.000 So there's a lot of investigative work that has to still be done.
00:21:39.000 You know, in my book, Get Trump, I go through every one of the charges, and I prove conclusively this is all part of an effort to try to prevent him from running for president.
00:21:48.000 Now we know that Rachel Maddow and some Democrats have urged the prosecution to make a deal with him to drop the charges in exchange for him not running for president.
00:22:00.000 What could be better proof that at least as to those people, this is purely partisan and political? 0.72
00:22:05.000 Now, just really quick as a side note, Professor, is there an effort to try to disbar lawyers if they represent murderers or the Unibomber?
00:22:13.000 Or I'm just curious. 0.62
00:22:15.000 No, I've been praised and honored for representing O.J. Simpson and Klaus von Bulow and people on death row.
00:22:24.000 It's only Donald Trump.
00:22:27.000 And when I defended Donald Trump on the floor of the Senate, I was banned from the library in Chillmark, Massachusetts.
00:22:34.000 My books were banned.
00:22:36.000 I was banned from the community center.
00:22:38.000 I was banned from my local reform synagogue.
00:22:43.000 And lawyers know this.
00:22:44.000 And lawyers have told me, I don't want to be dershowitz.
00:22:49.000 It's a verb now.
00:22:50.000 I don't want to be attacked the way you were for having presented a constitutional defense for Donald Trump under the impeachment clause of the Constitution, a correct constitutional defense.
00:23:03.000 So, Professor, if you were representing Donald Trump, how would you go about defending this?
00:23:08.000 What do you think is the weakest parts of the indictment?
00:23:10.000 You highlighted the strongest potential piece of evidence, which was this on-camera moment of braggadocia, if you will, by the president.
00:23:19.000 What do you think are the weakest parts?
00:23:20.000 And if you were leading the defense team, how would you go about compartmentalizing and one by one defending if Donald Trump was your client?
00:23:29.000 Well, I would be making constitutional arguments about the lawyer-client privilege.
00:23:34.000 The lower court in D.C., selected, obviously, by the special prosecutor to go to D.C., where he expected to get a more sympathetic court, ruled that conversations between Trump and his lawyers were not covered by the lawyer-client privilege because they were excluded by the crime for an exception.
00:23:54.000 I would challenge that if it were possible to challenge that.
00:23:57.000 I would focus a lot on the jury of the year, try to find a jury that would be more objective and more sympathetic.
00:24:04.000 I would focus on the moving of the boxes, which seemed to me to be pretty weak evidence.
00:24:11.000 He didn't destroy.
00:24:12.000 He could have easily destroyed the evidence the way Richard Nixon did.
00:24:16.000 This case doesn't meet the high standard that was met by Richard Nixon, which led Republicans to call for Nixon's impeachment and removal.
00:24:26.000 We're not hearing that from Republicans here, at least from very many Republicans here, because they understand that maybe Trump did things that were wrong, but so did the Department of Justice.
00:24:36.000 I read an article yesterday called, What if Both the Department of Justice and Trump are guilty?
00:24:42.000 How should the courts resolve that?
00:24:44.000 It's an interesting conundrum.
00:24:46.000 So, Professor, you mentioned the kind of piercing of the veil of attorney-client privilege.
00:24:52.000 In your career, have you ever represented a client where either your privilege with a client or somewhere that you've dealt with, that was done?
00:25:01.000 I'm told it's extremely rare.
00:25:02.000 Have you ever dealt with a situation like this before?
00:25:05.000 I have many times, and I won the leading case, two leading cases on that.
00:25:10.000 In my own case, when I represented Klaus Von Bulo and wrote a book about it, there was an argument that my writing the book broke the privilege, and the courts ruled that that wasn't true. 0.52
00:25:21.000 The privilege prevailed. 0.97
00:25:22.000 I won the case.
00:25:24.000 And then I had another case, not so different, on behalf of a client.
00:25:28.000 It's very rare for an indictment to be based as extensively as this one is on conversations and notes between an attorney and a client.
00:25:38.000 Look, clients, when they come to an attorney, often say silly things like, Oh, wouldn't it be better if the witness disappeared?
00:25:45.000 Wouldn't it be better if I went off to Brazil?
00:25:47.000 Wouldn't it be better if there was no document?
00:25:50.000 And then you say to them, No, it wouldn't be better.
00:25:53.000 They'll catch you, and I won't participate in that.
00:25:56.000 I'm a lawyer, not a criminal.
00:25:58.000 And so those conversations occur, and generally they're not a basis for voiding the lawyer-client privilege.
00:26:04.000 Yeah, I mean, some of that could also just be emotional bluster, or it could just be venting, right?
00:26:10.000 And so asking questions.
00:26:11.000 Yes.
00:26:12.000 You know, asking questions.
00:26:13.000 Lay people aren't expected to know the answers to these questions.
00:26:17.000 They ask the lawyers, the question really depends on what the answer is.
00:26:21.000 If the lawyer says no and the client obeys it, hey, that's a good thing, not a bad thing.
00:26:26.000 Yeah, and so is this one of the more extreme cases you've seen then of attorney-client privilege being violated?
00:26:34.000 Okay.
00:26:35.000 It is.
00:26:35.000 It's one of the more extreme cases.
00:26:37.000 And of course, the special prosecutor did judge shopping to get the right result.
00:26:41.000 He should have brought those arguments in Florida where the case was going to be tried.
00:26:47.000 But instead, he broke the case into two and he made the legal arguments in the District of Columbia, expecting a more sympathetic hearing.
00:26:54.000 And then he went to Florida where he had to go because that's where the venue in the case is.
00:26:59.000 By the way, that's what I would challenge too.
00:27:01.000 I would challenge bringing those issues in Florida as judge shopping and forum shopping and say that the results in that case shouldn't be collateral estoppel or however you want to call it in in the Florida case.
00:27:16.000 I don't know that that's a winning argument, but it's an argument I have.
00:27:19.000 Well, I think it's a brilliant point, which is they were able to go venue shopping to get a judge to be able to pierce the attorney-client veil that otherwise would not have been approved, maybe in Florida, to build up the case.
00:27:31.000 And then they actually file the charges, and so they broke it into two parts.
00:27:36.000 I hadn't heard anyone say that before.
00:27:38.000 To me, that doesn't pass the smell test.
00:27:40.000 So we'll see.
00:27:42.000 I'm not going to be his lawyer.
00:27:44.000 Obviously, I've been asked by many people to do it.
00:27:48.000 But my role is I generally represent somebody once.
00:27:50.000 But I hope he'll get a good lawyer.
00:27:53.000 Ultimately, three lawyers I spoke to recently won't take the case because they're fearful of being attacked and losing their bar and losing their family and friends. 0.63
00:28:04.000 This has been real McCarthyism.
00:28:06.000 I lived through McCarthyism, where lawyers who defended people who were accused of being communism were canceled in every possible way.
00:28:13.000 And now current lawyers, even lawyers like me who are not pro-Trump, who voted against him twice, and who insist on my constitutional right to vote against him a third time, I don't want that interfered with by prosecutors or judges or juries.
00:28:26.000 I want the right to vote against him on the merits for the third time.
00:28:31.000 So, Professor, I want to ask you about one of the components here.
00:28:34.000 What do you have to say about the potential defense that Trump can declassify any document and he decides to remove the Presidential Records Act component of this?
00:28:45.000 What is your legal take on that?
00:28:47.000 Well, there are two issues.
00:28:48.000 There is the declassification issue, which he's right about.
00:28:51.000 If he had announced that he had declassified ABCDEFG, they'd be declassified.
00:28:57.000 There's no second-guessing that.
00:29:00.000 The question is: who has the burden of proving it?
00:29:02.000 If he says he declassified, will the government have to disprove it?
00:29:05.000 So, classification is one thing.
00:29:07.000 The President's Records Act is something else.
00:29:09.000 It has to do with personal records.
00:29:12.000 Now, you can have personal records that are also classified records, and the President's Record Act doesn't contain any criminal penalties.
00:29:19.000 It contains a civil way of resolving disputes.
00:29:25.000 But it doesn't really directly, directly impinge or say anything about the Espionage Act, which is, of course, a misnamed act.
00:29:38.000 There's no espionage here.
00:29:39.000 Nobody's charging anybody with conveying secrets to our enemies.
00:29:45.000 So there's going to have to be some good research done on the relationship between the Records Act and the Espionage Act.
00:29:54.000 The Records Act, of course, is passed years, years after the Espionage Act.
00:29:59.000 So that has to be taken into account.
00:30:02.000 But the other side will argue that it has to do only with possession of personal records.
00:30:07.000 It really doesn't have to do with obstruction of justice and with maintaining control over classified materials.
00:30:14.000 So it will complicate the matter, but we'll have to wait and see whether it provides a defense.
00:30:21.000 Additionally, there is another defendant they're calling a co-conspirator, Waltine Noda.
00:30:26.000 I mean, in your experience, Professor, are they trying to use him as a way to get to Trump?
00:30:32.000 Well, there's absolutely no doubt about that.
00:30:34.000 This is a typical prosecutorial ploy.
00:30:36.000 You indict the young, poor kid who doesn't have any money, and you then tell his lawyer, this is the allegation.
00:30:44.000 Well, if you really want to get your judgeship, you should flip him.
00:30:47.000 And you tell the young kid, look, you're facing years in prison.
00:30:52.000 Everybody else has flipped on Trump.
00:30:53.000 You should flip on Trump.
00:30:55.000 There's absolutely no doubt.
00:30:56.000 The only reason they went after him is because they think they have an opportunity to flip him and turn him into a government witness.
00:31:04.000 I don't know if they do or don't.
00:31:06.000 And of course, jurors look askance on flip witnesses because they know that prosecutors can coerce witnesses not only into singing, but into composing and making up lyrics and music sometimes.
00:31:17.000 So jurors are very skeptical of flip witnesses.
00:31:21.000 Finally, is there an equal protection claim here that other people in similar positions were not criminally indicted?
00:31:27.000 Does that fall on deaf ears to a judge if there was a motion?
00:31:31.000 Please tell me.
00:31:32.000 Yeah.
00:31:32.000 Generally, it does.
00:31:33.000 If you do it on racial grounds, no. 0.91
00:31:35.000 If you do it on religious grounds, no.
00:31:37.000 But if you argue that, you know, Hillary Clinton should have been indicted and Joe Biden should have been indicted, that won't work because the facts are very, very different.
00:31:47.000 It works in the court of political opinion, but not necessarily in a court of law.
00:31:52.000 But those motions will be made.
00:31:54.000 Maybe they'll be looked at seriously, but they'll be made as much to appeal to the public as to appeal to a court.
00:32:03.000 Professor, the book is Get Trump.
00:32:05.000 In closing, do you anticipate more indictments as the summer continues against Donald Trump?
00:32:11.000 I do.
00:32:12.000 I think there'll be more indictments.
00:32:14.000 I think they won't be as strong as this one.
00:32:15.000 I think this one will be the strongest.
00:32:18.000 If Jack Smith was smart, he would not have more indictments, but we'll have to wait and see.
00:32:23.000 Professor Dershowitz, thank you so much.
00:32:25.000 Check out his book, Get Trump.
00:32:27.000 We'll have you on it soon.
00:32:27.000 Thank you so much.
00:32:29.000 Thank you.
00:32:30.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
00:32:31.000 Email us your thoughts.
00:32:32.000 As always, freedom at charliekirk.com.
00:32:34.000 Thanks so much for listening, and God bless.
00:32:39.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.