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00:03:05.000And I know you're going to enjoy this conversation with Pastor Rob and Jurgen.
00:03:09.000And for anyone that supports us this Sunday, we will randomly pick a couple of you guys to an assigned copy of the MAGA doctrine, the only ideas that will win the future, my book.
00:03:45.000We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
00:04:05.000We are here at an undisclosed location fighting for freedom with my two good friends, both of them pastors with courage, my pastor Rob McCoy and my good friend, Jürgen Matusius.
00:04:33.000Well, I think as we're navigating these waters, and I had brought this up to Jürgen, that the moniker we get participating in politics is we're labeled by the press as Dominionists.
00:04:50.000Now, I don't know, you know, there's hard dominionists, soft dominionists, and anywhere where you have somebody participating in politics, they label you that.
00:04:59.000So, just a lot of our listeners don't have the gospel is let alone dominionism.
00:06:01.000But the one thing that the two of us, even though we're different in our theology, the one thing that we have in common is realization that however you look at it, we need to be involved.
00:06:13.000It's so funny because I got saved on a beach.
00:06:15.000So, you know, my theology is kind of first-hand revelation from Christ from reading the scriptures and then, you know, maybe having arguments as I went through theological seminary.
00:06:28.000So, you know, what I see in the scripture, and I believe that a lot of what is, you know, maybe called soft dominionism, I think what dominionism really means to break it down and make it simple is that God created sons and daughters to have authority over the earth.
00:06:49.000And the Bible teaches, sadly, that there's the wicked and the righteous, and that there's a war, there's a battle over the planet.
00:07:02.000And I honestly believe that the areas where the wicked rule, it's not because of a lack of God, but really an apathy or an indifference or a disengaging.
00:07:13.000So Hosea 4:6 says, my people are destroyed from a lack of knowledge.
00:07:16.000So I believe that we, you know, we are fools to not be engaged in politics.
00:07:21.000We're fools not to be front foot on being engaged in culture, being engaged in education, in praying and understand, understanding our authority, the weapons of our warfare.
00:07:36.000The Bible says in Christ are not weak, they're not carnal, but they're mighty in God for pulling down strongholds.
00:07:42.000And so I've seen that, you know, so God works on two dimensions simultaneously.
00:07:47.000He works on a micro level and a macro level simultaneously.
00:07:51.000And, You know, when we look under a microscope at the intricacy of a snowflake, the detail, the design is amazing.
00:08:01.000And then when we look through a telescope into the vast expanse of the cosmos, the detail is mind-blowing.
00:08:10.000And so I've found that there's a congruency on what works for me personally is also what works for me family, community, city, nationally, globally.
00:08:22.000So if I could ask a question as a devil's advocate, because I have two pastors around, so I have to use the term devil's advocate.
00:09:26.000You know, Jesus said, that's a good word.
00:09:28.000When the disciples said, Lord, teach us to pray, like John taught his disciples to pray, he said, it's very simple.
00:09:33.000Our Father, not my Father, our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name.
00:09:37.000Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
00:09:41.000So the earth reflects heaven the most when God's will is done.
00:09:46.000When God's will is rejected, when you go to places where there's oppression and violence and poverty and trafficking and exploitation and destruction and misery, guess whose will's not happening?
00:10:52.000So what kind of selfish outrage is that?
00:10:55.000Let's pretend your vote is invalidated.
00:10:57.000Just from a very simple, logical, just a logical equation, the upside of voting could potentially be making the difference in an election, like in Iowa.
00:11:07.000The downside of not voting could be making the difference in the other direction.
00:11:11.000The downside of voting would be that my vote doesn't count, which means I would have wasted 15 minutes.
00:12:13.000Well, you know, I even think it's an apathy and it's a discouragement.
00:12:16.000That's what we had after this election in our church because I knew a number of people that actually helped organize a lot of the Trump boat rallies and even one of the boat, excuse me, the Trump car rallies.
00:12:32.000And they had 34 miles, 30, never seen in California before.
00:12:38.000And, you know, and many of these people came up to saying, oh, Pastor, you know what?
00:12:42.000You know, we're kind of down with voting.
00:13:34.000But either way, wherever we're kind of placed, the fascinating thing about it is both Jürgen and myself believe Christians should be involved in the governance of the nation.
00:13:47.000Now, the left is going to label us all dominionists and somehow try to make that term.
00:13:57.000Because they want, in a sense, to shame us or mock us into us wanting to have a theocracy over the land as opposed to participating in a pluralistic society to contend.
00:14:54.000Laws of nature, nature's God, revealed knowledge so that we can instruct children without, you know, that the law can be used in such a capacity to see God.
00:15:03.000All creation speaks of the glory of God, so they start to see him.
00:15:06.000And we want to govern our lives in such a way to flourish.
00:15:09.000And we do have that picture of an Imago Day that we're created in His image and we want to obtain excellence.
00:15:18.000But the secular progressive left labels us dominionists to somehow dismiss us as people who want to conquer and destroy anyone else's.
00:15:28.000But nothing could be further from the truth.
00:15:31.000It's the Christian worldview that creates a pluralistic society.
00:16:01.000But you go right around the world, Charlie, and it's what they accuse is the biggest lie of the devil because it's Christianity that actually, because we believe in free will.
00:16:14.000So I was speaking two Sundays ago in church, and probably one of the most provocative revelations I've ever had is the first thing that God does with man is he gives man life.
00:16:25.000The Bible says in Genesis 2 that God breathed into Adam's nostrils the breath of life, and Adam went from an inanimate to an animate, like he was animated.
00:16:35.000Everything, all the systems, his central nervous system, his immune system, digestive system, respiratory, every system, it comes alive.
00:16:42.000The next chapter, God puts him in a garden and says, of all the trees of the garden, you may freely eat except for that one.
00:16:49.000You can't eat off that tree because it's mine.
00:16:51.000So a lot of people say, well, hang on, why would God do that?
00:16:53.000The reason God did that was because he was showing Adam, not only have I given you life, but I've given you freedom.
00:16:59.000Because if you don't have the freedom to choose wrong, you're not free.
00:17:05.000This is how powerful, this is how secure, this is how magnificent, and this is how benevolent and gracious and good our God is, that he gives us free will, knowing that we could have the option to reject him if we wanted to.
00:17:24.000So we have some people that email us and they say we do not, they would call themselves Calvinists.
00:17:35.000Yeah, look, honestly, that's probably my book, Push, Pray Until Something Happens, I wrote because of the massive problem that I have with five-point Calvinism.
00:17:47.000Because they talk about the depravity of man and that we have no influence over God.
00:17:54.000And yet all the way through the Bible, what are you talking about?
00:17:56.000God was going to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah.
00:18:02.000Jonah gets out at Nineveh and preaches, yet 40 days and Nineveh will be overthrown.
00:18:08.000And today we'd kind of be on YouTube claiming that Jonah was a false prophet because God spared Nineveh and his prophecy didn't come to pass.
00:18:15.000So we see God moved again and again by men.
00:18:18.000In fact, Ezekiel 22, 30, God said, so I sought for just a man among them who would build a wall, stand in the gap, cry out to me on behalf of the land that I might not destroy it.
00:18:29.000So even in my devotions today, God is speaking to Moses and he calls Moses up on the mountain.
00:20:49.000So I go all the way back to the people that say that human beings have no really need to go back and read the Bible.
00:20:56.000So what they've done is they've thrown out scriptures with a doctrine or a theology.
00:21:03.000And I think that if you have a theology that has contradictions with scripture, you've actually got to change your theology rather than change the scripture.
00:21:16.000My studies show me that Calvin was an attorney by trade, and he wanted to take indulgences and salvation out of the hands of man as the Catholic Church had held that over humanity's head.
00:22:50.000Arminian was a theologian who really emphasized the free will of man in the same way to the detriment of the scriptures, avoiding and taking scriptures out of context to put the free will of man in such a profound place.
00:23:08.000And that would boil down to where you stand on that spectrum of Calvinism and Arminianism.
00:23:15.000That's where you're going to be a strong Dominionist or a Reconstructionist.
00:23:22.000Calvinists are typically Reconstructionists that we can participate in that process because that's where God calls us.
00:24:39.000Your group of churches, or I would say your fellowship, does practice in those.
00:24:44.000You're not going to hear anyone speaking in tongues in our fellowship, although we believe the gift is for today.
00:24:49.000You're not going to hear anyone speaking in tongues in our church, but in your church, they will.
00:24:53.000If we do, we'll have an afterglow where there's interpretation and there's prayer language, all this stuff.
00:25:02.000Growing up, I longed to have that supernatural gifting and that connection.
00:25:11.000But the more I've engaged in the political process and just the day-in and day-out grind, I've come to rely on his sovereignty and his presence.
00:25:20.000It's an interesting progression or transition in my life.
00:25:25.000And you were going to say a game changer.
00:26:59.000So a lot of people, well, you know, it's a fire, it's Gehenna, you know, and so most people go immediately to try and find explanation through, you know, through biblical words.
00:29:02.000Because then I have an interesting wrinkle.
00:29:06.000The response I would give would be, I would think a Calvinist response would be that would be a very troubling statement to take the sovereignty of God and subject it to being less powerful than the free will of man.
00:29:30.000And that's, you know, that's obviously a vernacular that they would use less powerful.
00:29:33.000Yeah, and that pendulum would swing over where they're going to say, I'm not putting that in the hands of man.
00:30:29.000And what I find to be so fascinating about all this is we have this group of pastors that, boy, if they were all sitting here, that would be.
00:30:39.000But there's a point to it, which is that, and as I've been in the political world as a Christian, now coming into the Christian world, I find that the principle that did keep the conservative movement together post-Reagan has not been applied to the Christian world because it just didn't have to be, which is, you know, if someone is 80% your ally, don't make them 100% of your enemy or adversary or whatever.
00:31:08.000And I think that a lot of these theological disputes, which again, I'm not well-versed enough to go to Hosea 4, 6 or Ezekiel 22, 30.
00:31:22.000And what I think that is really interesting, though, is we're starting to see pastors of all different theological views and denominations now all of a sudden uniting on something they can all agree on.
00:33:03.000Well, and look, here's something that I've learned, that when you have something as true, which is the total truth of Jesus, something as powerful as the word of God, it's inevitable you're going to have different splinters and wrinkles and variations.
00:33:20.000You're not going to be able to get around that.
00:35:00.000And yet the righteous, the Republicans, we eat each other.
00:35:04.000You know, we're not holy enough, not right enough, whatever.
00:35:07.000And that's why Psalm 133 says how good it is, how blessed it is when brethren dwell together in unity, for there the Lord commands a blessing.
00:35:16.000God will actually bestow a blessing if we can put our differences aside and focus on what we have.
00:35:23.000When I went to Rob's church, I didn't look at any theology.
00:35:29.000I saw a man who loved his God, who loved his country, who loved his beautiful bride, his beautiful family, and poured truth and grace.
00:35:42.000Like I'd hardly seen to his congregation who were drinking from this fountain.
00:35:49.000I thought, my God, this is one of the richest springs in California, if not in America.
00:35:55.000And I thought, I just immediately fell in love with the McCoy's.
00:35:58.000And I'm like, you know, and of course, you know, and that's, I think that's how God wired us.
00:36:02.000You know, He's going to have a different experience with God, a different encounter with God, and I can learn and it sharpens me and it gets me to go back and revisit.
00:36:44.000When I went to your fellowship, things I'm unfamiliar with in my own fellowship, but blessed beyond measure, knowing that we're a kindred spirit, knowing we're knitted.
00:36:57.000We believe in the deity of Christ, the Trinity, the inerrancy of scripture.
00:37:00.000And as we venture into these different areas of theology and someone's going to want to slam you and play whack-a-mole, calm down.
00:37:07.000We got work to do because we got to roll in the same direction for the sake of the nation.
00:37:10.000What I feel called to do, though, is, and we're starting to see it, is start to motivate and organize these pastors to have unified purpose because you don't have robust theological debates of dominion, dominionism versus reconstructionism or soft dimensionism or dispensationalism in North Korea.
00:37:31.000That sort of debate, if you don't get the fundamentals right of the society that allows you to do those things, pretty much nowhere in the 1040 window, longitude, latitude, 90% of the things.
00:38:32.000Long before Jesus had used that term, it was a secular term.
00:38:35.000He didn't say synagogue, he didn't say temple, he didn't use a religious term.
00:38:39.000So we're to engage in the public square.
00:38:42.000And from the public square, then we can have this debate and reason together on pre-trib, pre-millennial, post-trib, you know, pan-trib, where it all pans out in the end.
00:38:55.000We can go through all these different aspects.
00:38:57.000We can argue our eschatology, the sovereignty, Calvinism, Arminianism.
00:39:01.000But we will never be able to have that debate if there's not freedom.
00:39:12.000I always say that when the Apostle Paul says, stand fast, therefore, in the liberty for which Christ has set you free, he wrote that in prison when he wrote that to the church in Galatia.
00:39:29.000Proclaim liberty throughout the land, the law, the wise restraints that make men free.
00:39:33.000Free, when you have restraints, then you have options.
00:39:37.000Meaning, you apply restraints towards evil in order to pursue excellence.
00:39:42.000You'll be able to enjoy things at a level never before obtained by man because you applied restraints.
00:39:47.000And the illustration I use is Patrick Mahomes, you know, Super Bowl win, unbelievable game.
00:39:55.000And while he was playing and enjoying football at a level of excellence I would never attain to, the reason why is because I watched it from a comfortable chair with a big bowl of potato chips and a big Coke.
00:40:08.000And I wasn't practicing every day watching game films.
00:40:12.000And he took it to a level that very few could achieve because he applied restraints when others wouldn't get up in the morning to exercise or to lift weights or to watch the game films.
00:40:24.000And so all of this, regardless of Calvinism, Arminianism, Biblicist, Dominionist, Reconstructionist, whatever they label, we all know this.
00:40:37.000It's critical that liberty is God's idea, not man's idea.
00:40:41.000And as his bride, we must contend in the ecclesia for that.
00:40:45.000And so we're rowing in the same direction.
00:41:29.000Whereas Jesus said, by this will all men know you're my disciples if you have love for one another.
00:41:34.000So what I found, you know, being married 29 years is that Leanne has some things that, you know, I'm just not, you know, like I like sport.
00:43:00.000And for me, in fact, I'm going to look forward to sitting at the table.
00:43:04.000And I think that, you know, that's something that I've learned, but I've learned it because it's a value of Christ that we should have love.
00:43:34.000But that's the whole point is that Jürgen, Rob, Cadiz, Ken Graves, Engelhardt, John Randall, Hibbs, Phil Green, Frank Farrington, Greg Franklin, Farrington, all the kind of like we love Jesus, we love God, we believe in the Nicene Creed.
00:43:50.000I don't think you guys believe that Nicene Creed.
00:43:53.000And all of a sudden, it's like, oh, we have a beautiful country.
00:44:31.000But I thought about something, Jürgen.
00:44:34.000I thought when I shared with you prominent and preeminent, that there are some prominent individuals in Christendom that are preachers, musicians.
00:45:09.000Because to take a stand on certain issues that would lose your prominence, you compromise that.
00:45:13.000And I would say this, when you said that Christianity is bottom-up, it's so good.
00:45:17.000And the problem that we're facing in America is we have a top-down government now where everything is being centralized to federal, where they wanted to push it down to the individual, we the people.
00:45:27.000From the pulpits of America, we got to be careful.
00:45:30.000We talk about an anointing on an individual.
00:45:37.000When we start to equip the people to be the sovereign of the nation, we the people, when we equip them to be disciples, to understand how we live together, you don't lie, cheat, steal.
00:45:53.000And then all of a sudden the church finds unity and commonality.
00:45:57.000But when we are wanting to centralize it and make it about an individual and the popularity and the prominence of that individual, then we have to define ourselves.
00:46:12.000But the cool thing is that the political fight right now, the ecclesia as it's meant, the well-being, maybe that's why that word was used because all of a sudden you're seeing churches acting more cooperatively in a way you've never seen before.
00:46:26.000And so, you know, let's really get into that where we have a lot of people and my heart breaks for them, but we're going to solve this problem for them where, first of all, a lot of people that have come to your church because of politics, a lot of people that have come to your church because of politics, and politics, which is the highest form of community, according to Aristotle, because it morality and sociability.
00:47:35.000Yeah, if you're a pastor in Wisconsin and your church is open and you don't have mass and there's no social distancing, would you please contact us?
00:48:26.000Tune into a church that is and then contact us and then we'll reach out to you and then we'll also do our best to find you a pastor that's open.
00:50:11.000I think I would maybe at least have a conversation maybe prior to that one with that pastor because the nature of a pastor is, you know, he's the shepherd.
00:50:27.000And the shepherd loves the sheep, has the smell of sheep on him, cares for the sheep.
00:50:32.000So, like, like Pastor Rob was saying before, you know, a hammer sees everything as a nails.
00:50:39.000And so if we identify that the weakness of a pastor, like a good pastor really cares for his sheep, but the weakness is that you can care too much what the sheep think or say.
00:50:52.000And so there's a lot of pastors right now who, because of the mask mandates, the mystery with the COVID, the BLM stuff, all the deaths, the spiking, Dr. Fauci, you know, like all of this kind of stuff have felt like, my God, I am not, am I not protecting my sheep if I'm not open, if I'm not stepping back, if I'm not.
00:51:14.000And I think what we need to do is we need to, because courage is infectious.
00:51:19.000When I went and saw what they were doing at God Speak Church, that courage leapt into our spirit.
00:51:25.000We went down resolute on how we were going to move forward.
00:51:29.000And despite the bullying and the intimidating of our city and the hit and smear pieces that are still pretty much every week in the media, we're not flourishing.
00:51:41.000And we're flourishing, but we're not changing track.
00:51:44.000We are open without masks, without social distancing.
00:52:29.000Would you listen to some of their podcasts?
00:52:31.000Because their podcasts, with the people that he's interviewing, who are in the medical field, who are in the political field, who are behind the scenes.
00:52:39.000These are people who are working day in, day out.
00:53:17.000So I would add that it would be good that we put on an Ecclesia pastors conference.
00:53:25.000And in addition, we put on an Ecclesia congregant conference where they can come and be educated in understanding a realm that has been neglected by the body of Christ for over 50 years and revisit the things that we're planning.
00:55:57.000Like, you know, we were having the Santa Ana's 100 degrees and he's there twice a day, 6 a.m. and then back there at 2 in the afternoon, practicing till 5 o'clock, 6 o'clock at night in his sweats.
00:56:10.000He would come home and his football gear stank.
00:57:22.000And I think, you know, one of the things we've got to remember as we go down the theology road, that there was probably no greater theologian and Rob will agree than the Apostle Paul, wrote two-thirds of the New Testament.
00:58:17.000And I think that what we've got to recognize is that our congregations, yes, we're the pastor, but even more than that, there's a spiritual father.
00:58:28.000And that absolutely, they worked all summer.
00:58:31.000And they came home with dripping wet from door knocking.
01:02:03.000You know, if she wants to quit, she has it.
01:02:05.000And it's like, well, don't compete in the freaking Olympics.
01:02:10.000But she literally, if you watch it, it's, I won't say her name, but she became a household name.
01:02:16.000The media had one spin, like she's the victim.
01:02:19.000The rest of Australia were like, what a jackwagon that you are like literally 50 yards from the finish line and then she just kind of collapses and doesn't just like she doesn't just stop rowing she lunges back on the rower behind her and takes the takes her Out as well.
01:03:47.000And I think we've got to just keep encouraging our people that, hey, we may lose some battles before we win, but every loss we're learning, every loss we're getting closer.
01:04:00.000The difference in the church, the division in the church is part of the church sees Christ as prominent.
01:04:16.000And Christ is preeminent, and my job is to be obedient.
01:04:20.000You know, when Jim Elliott died at the hands of the Akaw Indians, and you have a Christian programmer saying to Elizabeth Elliott, isn't it wonderful that they all came to Christ?
01:05:42.000And what it comes down to, Charlie, is the Bible talks about the glory of the Lord shall cover the earth or the glory of the Lord shall fill the earth.
01:05:51.000But it's amazing because the devil offers human beings fame.
01:05:56.000So we were created to walk in fellowship with God, to experience the glory of God.
01:06:25.000If you view all the kingdoms of the world and their glory and their splendor, if you will bow down before, I will give all of these to you.
01:06:31.000And what happens with people with success, and this is the kingdom of Nimrod, which is the spirit of the world, is that these artists become successful.
01:07:19.000And these waves are 30, 40 feet high, smashing and literally shaking the lighthouse.
01:07:25.000All of a sudden, one wave hits so big that it extinguishes the light.
01:07:30.000And they know that there are ships out at sea in these massive seas trying to get into the harbor.
01:07:35.000And they're the last lighthouse before the harbor.
01:07:38.000If they don't get that light on, these ships are going to be smashed against the rocks.
01:07:42.000So the lighthouse keeper says to the young apprentice, he says, we're going to have to go climb on the outside rail in the pitch black with these massive seas to manually turn the light on.
01:07:53.000And the young apprentice says, but if we go out, we may never come back.
01:07:59.000And at that, the lighthouse keeper puts his hand on the young apprentice's shoulder and says, we have to go out.
01:08:07.000And I remember it just was such a powerful story that it just resonated in my early Christianity days that what God is asking me to do, it's not pragmatic.
01:09:32.000I'm going to take that and say in my observations of you, Charlie, especially at Turning Point, you've seen people come in and out of this organization, and many have gone on to have unbelievable success and prominence.
01:09:48.000I've been with you through some trying times, some very difficult circumstances and challenges to this organization.
01:09:59.000And I have never heard you derogatorily speak of anyone who's left this organization, nor anyone who works at this organization.
01:10:26.000And I think that there's going to be a capacity for that in the coming days where we're going to realize if we don't stand together, we're going to fall apart.
01:10:35.000I don't know who the Judas is in the organization.
01:10:37.000I may be the Judas in the organization.
01:10:39.000It's one of those things where you're like, is it me, Lord?
01:14:50.000Which is that if you, and I love the way you framed it, which I think that every pastor should hear that, so we're going to make sure they do.
01:14:59.000Which is that if you care about people, if you care about humanity, then it's almost impossible not to also care about politics.
01:15:09.000And this, this kind of system of government the founders gave us, yes, which was biblical truth with enlightenment values, which is God, the realization of God's creation.
01:15:19.000That's all the Enlightenment was: the enlightenment of what God had already created.
01:16:53.000Can I jump on just one thought that I think that has almost become like even the reluctant pastor, we've been able to almost like strong-arm to the table and get an exasperated agreement and alignment is around the topic of abortion.
01:17:12.000So let me give you three biblical perspectives on why just using the window of the issue of abortion, that pastors should be involved in politics if they really care about people.
01:17:27.000Of the three, the first one I would say is this: Jesus said, Whatever you do for the least of these my brethren, you did unto me.
01:17:38.000There is no more least than the hidden.
01:17:42.000David writes in Psalm 139, you knit me together in the hidden in the dark, in the womb.
01:17:49.000You skillfully wrought me together when I was yet unseen.
01:17:53.000Jesus taught that if you are faithful in what is least, you'll be faithful in much.
01:18:00.000But if you are unfaithful in what is least or unjust in what is least, you'll be unjust with much.
01:18:05.000So if there's a political party saying, hey, listen, we want to slaughter and dismember in the womb the most innocent among us, but trust us with your health care.
01:18:18.000We're going to look after social security.
01:18:21.000We're going to look after Medicare, Medicare for all, free health care.
01:18:25.000Do you really think that you can trust these people, the welfare of your health?
01:18:31.000I guarantee you, watch this, the party, and it's happened all through history, that is pro-abortion is also the party that once they get that across the line is pro-euthanasia.
01:18:44.000They kill at this end and they kill at this end because it's all about political expediency.
01:18:51.000So the first one is whatever you do for the least of it.
01:18:54.000The second one is we should care about, you know, all the ultrasounds, all the science now tells us that life begins at conception, that there is a heartbeat, a detectable heartbeat within six days.
01:19:08.000I mean, this is a little human being, and we should fight for all lives, even unborn lives.
01:19:15.000And the third one is a biblical is a little bit deeper in theology.
01:19:31.000God's bringing them into the promised land.
01:19:33.000He gives them this very, very stark, very sobering reality check.
01:19:39.000And he says, do not think that I am bringing you into this land that I promised Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, a land flowing with milk and honey, because of your goodness, because of your righteousness.
01:19:51.000He says, the reason I'm bringing you into this land is because of the transgression, the wickedness of the people in this land who caused their sons and daughters to pass through the fire to Moloch, who sacrificed their children to Baal.
01:20:08.000He says, when you enter the land, when I give you this land, be careful not to do the same things that they did because they shed innocent blood, the land vomited them out.
01:20:19.000So Psalm 24, verse 1 says, the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof.
01:20:24.000The reason the devil is so driven to bring abortion is because he knows that the righteous part of God must at some point say, enough is enough.
01:20:38.000I have to avenge the shedding of innocent blood.
01:20:42.000And the devil now is able to have a field day, his agenda, which is destruction driven by a hate.
01:20:50.000Now, he hates Charlie Kirk, not because of what Charlie Kirk does.
01:20:55.000He hates Charlie Kirk because of who Charlie Kirk is.
01:20:59.000When he looks at you, he sees that you bear the Imago Day, the image of God, the image of the one who dismissed him from his place, and he is filled with a rage.
01:21:15.000And so he wants God to lift his protection from America.
01:21:20.000And we have to fight because we don't want people's lives to be destroyed.
01:21:24.000We don't want to go through another Holocaust.
01:21:26.000Hitler, 1939, when people say it doesn't matter who the president is, I'm like, obviously, you weren't around in 1939, Germany, when the National Socialistic Democrat Republic sounds very similar, party was elected to power.
01:21:42.000But what happened in Germany should never happen again.
01:21:45.000What happened in 1920s through Stalin should never happen in the world again.
01:21:49.000What happened with Chairman Mao should never happen again.
01:21:52.000What happened with Pol Pot should never happen again.
01:22:07.000When you were speaking of this idea of abortion, one of the fallback positions of the woke Christian, prominent Christian side, as opposed to preeminent for Christ, is that, oh, we only care about the babies in the womb, but when they're born, we don't care.
01:22:24.000And somehow that justifies their position to be pro-choice, which is nauseating.
01:22:30.000And it makes no logical sense whatsoever.
01:22:34.000But this also brings together the disillusionment or the struggle of those who worked diligently in this last election and lost.
01:24:03.000And also, I want to just, every Christian should take a huge stand against this line of thinking.
01:24:08.000Like, oh, you only care about them when they're born.
01:24:11.000Well, first of all, show me one public policy measure that the Democrats support once the baby that is born that is actually better for them.
01:24:50.000From day one, I have said publicly and have been on record, and the entire congregation knows this, you know, any woman who is considering an abortion is willing to keep it because we'll help with the birth and the costs and we'll find a home for it.
01:28:01.000You know, it's interesting on my wife and I, we both have, especially over the last couple of years, become quite a bit more vocal on our social media, especially on our Instagram.
01:28:12.000And unfortunately, it lost us pretty severely, relationships, even 20 years of family connection gone.
01:28:25.000And I remember this one very, very vocal from Australia got on and had been discipled many years ago in our ministry in Australia.
01:28:38.000And now, because of the church culture there had moved away from truth into wokeness, brought up that whole argument.
01:28:47.000Well, you know, you guys, you know, you only care about, you know, you're so pro-life.
01:28:53.000What about what are you guys doing after the child is born?
01:28:56.000And what was amazing was we had, through Compassion International, asked them, what is one of the, you know, one of your biggest needs right now?
01:29:05.000And they had an entire village that needed sponsoring in Peru.
01:29:13.000It was hundreds of thousands of dollars in infrastructure and everything.
01:29:17.000When I brought that to the church, and this is, you know, caring for people after they're born.
01:29:22.000When I brought it to our church, hoping that we could get our church to support this one village, our church so unanimously stepped up that right now we are supporting eight entire villages in Peru And we have five orphanages.
01:29:58.000And I would just say that if you think, oh, hey, because we don't care for people after, we shouldn't care before, the way to care for people after is to care before.
01:30:08.000If you don't care about people in the womb, you're not going to care after them.
01:30:20.000I mean, powerful minister of the gospel.
01:30:24.000And I remember she was, and the Maori people are very spiritual, but it's demonic.
01:30:30.000So there's a lot of casting out of demons and deliverance that happens because they're into astral travel, ancestral worship, you know, idolatry, everything.
01:30:42.000So this particular minister who discipled my brother-in-law was in a meeting where there was a woman who had, she was abusing her little children.
01:30:52.000She had a five-year-old, a three-year-old, and then an 18-month-old.
01:30:56.000And they had like bruises and burns on them.
01:30:59.000And she came weeping, this woman weeping, troubled, because she was abusing her three little ones.
01:31:06.000And this minister immediately stopped and said, you've had an abortion.
01:31:53.000She looked like a completely, she looked five years younger.
01:31:56.000But it was just a powerful illustration that if you don't care on this side of the womb, you're not going to care on that side of the womb.
01:32:04.000So the argument of, oh, well, you only care about that, we have to care on this side.
01:32:09.000If we don't care on this side, we won't care on that side.