00:01:06.000We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
00:02:01.000Basically, in 2020, Democrats used the COVID-19 pandemic to significantly change the election system in our country or election laws.
00:02:11.000So they allowed for mass unsupervised mail and balloting, as well as a month-long early voting.
00:02:19.000So because of that, the calculus for winning elections has changed in this country.
00:02:23.000It's all about collecting as many ballots as possible for your candidate to win instead of generating voter enthusiasm so that voters can come out on the polls on election day.
00:02:34.000So basically, what that means is that Democrats significantly invest in the ground game.
00:02:41.000So trying to collect as many mail-in ballots as possible before Election Day.
00:02:45.000So they fund a lot of those ground game efforts, which includes going door to door, harvesting, and curing ballots.
00:02:52.000Republicans, on the other hand, haven't really picked up on investing in the ground game because they hire these establishment-backed GOP consultants who basically tell their candidates to invest in the traditional campaign mailers or TV ads.
00:03:11.000And they do that because one, they're kind of focused on the old model of generating voter enthusiasm to have their voters come out on election day.
00:03:21.000They're not focused on mail-in ballots whatsoever.
00:03:23.000But two, because there's a financial incentive for these GOP consultants to advise their candidates to spend money on the campaign mailers or the TV ads because they get a significant cut of the money.
00:03:42.000And so my argument is basically, even though how you win elections in this country has changed since 2020, there is a financial disincentive for these GOP consultants to actually tell their candidates how to win elections now.
00:03:56.000How much money does the consultant class make?
00:04:02.000Like, how much are these firms bringing in?
00:04:04.000Um, it's it's in the millions of dollars.
00:04:07.000I mean, back in the 2020 uh presidential election, there was like 10 consulting firms that helped Mitt Romney or, well, they didn't, he didn't win the election, but um, were focused on his efforts to uh become president.
00:04:43.000She paid one consulting firm $8 million and she never had a chance of winning.
00:04:50.000So they're obviously pocketing a lot of money and they keep getting hired.
00:04:55.000So there is no incentive for them to change their practices because they're making so much money.
00:05:02.000And even if they lose all of these elections, it doesn't matter.
00:05:06.000The Republican candidates will keep hiring them because it's kind of a revolving door.
00:05:11.000Yeah, it's just a very close-knit world.
00:05:13.000So if you want to aspire to higher office on the Republican side, you're told who to hire.
00:05:20.000So, I mean, it would a very provocative idea that probably wouldn't make sense is we should just hire these people on contingency, saying if you win, then you get XYZ.
00:05:30.000I do know they get at times victory bonuses, but they pale in comparison to the points on the ad buy.
00:05:38.000And then whenever they're challenged, I know a little bit about this very, you know, not a lot, just kind of peripherally, because I'm, I just hear from candidates and stuff, is that they say, well, this is just the going rate.
00:05:47.000It's 10 points or 15 points on the ad buy.
00:05:50.000So despite all of that, though, and in your piece, you talk about how it is more lucrative to run television advertisements.
00:05:59.000Even with that being said, we were significantly outspent on television by the Democrats as far as just not even just volume of money, but just living here in Arizona, it was five to one.
00:06:12.000And so I have to wonder, even with that, where did this money go?
00:06:21.000I mean, it just feels like it's a line in the considerable considerable political consulting class's pockets.
00:06:28.000I mean, obviously, Democrats have way more money to throw around than their Republican counterparts.
00:06:34.000I mean, they have, you know, billionaires like Sam Bakeman-Fried and Mark Zuckerberg, you know, funding these campaigns and these nonprofits that are just funded by billionaires on the Democratic side.
00:06:47.000Republicans do not have that kind of money whatsoever.
00:06:49.000So it surprised me that they expended way more on TV ads.
00:08:13.000So it gave them a 60-day head start where they otherwise would have had to really scramble in July and August and ballots come out in early October.
00:08:23.000And so what would you recommend, having done some very thoughtful research on this, to be the solution?
00:08:29.000I mean, where does the RNC come into this, for example?
00:08:32.000Because now there's a lot of chatter about who should run the RNC.
00:09:21.000Well, I mean, the Herschel Walker actually came pretty close to Warnock.
00:09:27.000So it wasn't like a complete defeat, but I didn't really see any evidence of the RNC's ground game.
00:09:34.000I know there was a Georgian nonprofit group that actually knocked on, I think it was ACTNOW Georgia, that knocked on 4 million doors and made 1 million phone calls to Georgians leading up to the runoff.
00:09:50.000Their Republican counterpart, which I mentioned in my latest article I wrote about the runoff, only knocked on 400,000 doors.
00:10:22.000Also, I want to talk about the fundraising splits with you, Victoria, because this is something that people don't realize: that if you donate money to a candidate, that someone might be earning 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 99% of that money very well might not go to your intended target.
00:10:40.000To elaborate on this a little bit more, the Democrats do have a vetting organization where all their donors get together and they talk about in great detail how they vet progressive pro-democracy organizations and allocate funding from that.
00:10:59.000And they try to ice out the bad consultants and synergize their strategy.
00:11:04.000There have been other attempts to do this on the Republican side very unsuccessfully because there's so many ideological differences on the right.
00:11:12.000You got the MAGA stuff, you got the America First stuff, the Chamber of Commerce stuff, you got the more libertarian stuff.
00:11:23.000You talk a lot about some of these races.
00:11:25.000You talk about Ted Budd, JD Vance, also with Dr. Oz.
00:11:30.000Walk us through that part of the piece.
00:11:32.000Yeah, basically, this is kind of a different take on the consultant problem.
00:11:39.000So the actual advice the political consultants were giving these candidates was kind of in the wake of the Dobbs decision.
00:11:47.000They were telling people like Dr. Oz, Ted Budd, basically, stay away from the abortion question.
00:11:58.000Don't talk about it whatsoever because it'll hurt you.
00:12:01.000And what that ended up happening was that then their opponents, so Dr. Oz' opponents could define him as anti-woman, anti-women's rights.
00:12:11.000And so his opponent, John Fetterman, kind of got to define the debate instead of Oz basically being able to be on the offense from the beginning and say, no, I'm actually pro-woman.
00:12:25.000Here's why the Dobbs decision was a good thing.
00:12:28.000So actually not being kind of on, well, just not being able to define the debate in terms of the terms he wanted to have hurt Dr. Oz and the other candidates who shied away from abortion.
00:12:42.000And that was the, once again, the GOP-backed or the establishment-backed GOP political consultant class's advice.
00:12:51.000The kind of consensus amongst a lot of grassroots is there is an enormous amount of capital that is misspent and misallocated.
00:13:04.000And what you talk about in your piece is exactly right.
00:13:09.000The problem is that we don't really have the comfortable margin for this to continue.
00:13:15.000And so the consultants earn money no matter what.
00:13:19.000You mentioned this previously, but I want you to build this out a little bit more.
00:13:24.000If consultants were to build out a ground game, they actually get poorer.
00:13:32.000Yeah, I mean, they're not going to be making the kind of money that they make from TV ads or campaign mailers, right?
00:13:38.000So they can get anywhere from 10 to 50% of the cut of those ad buys.
00:13:43.000And with purely investing in the ground game, I mean, the consultants are only going to be making money off of their consulting fees.
00:13:52.000So there's no financial incentive to tell their candidates to invest in harvesting or curing ballots or doing more phone banking or hiring another third-party entity or working with a nonprofit group to try and get as many voters as possible to elect them or to try and harvest as many ballots as possible.
00:15:06.000We may never know the extent that Google has impacted our political discourse, our dialogue, or our elections.
00:15:17.000But our next guest has done a lifetime of research looking into this topic.
00:15:24.000He makes some very bold proclamations where he believes that the midterm elections were rigged by Google from mind manipulation to search engine optimization to search engine manipulation effect, S-E-M-E, and all other new types of online influence.
00:15:47.000Dr. Robert Epstein is brilliant and he understands this issue better than anybody else.
00:15:55.000And he's going to talk about from a very fair and analytical perspective, how we really don't have elections anymore.
00:16:02.000We have mind simulation programs brought to you by Google.
00:16:12.000The end of the year is right around the corner, and it's time for you to consider a change in your investment plan.
00:16:16.000This is Charlie Kirk, and I strongly recommend you go right now and see my friends at PAX to review your investments.
00:16:23.000They are the one firm I know that focuses on biblical, responsible investing and does not force you to invest in companies that literally attack Christian values.
00:16:33.000If we want religious liberty in our country, we have to stop investing in companies that are trying to suppress our freedoms.
00:17:34.000In this article I wrote for the Epoch Times, How Google Stopped the Red Wave, which people can get access to directly by going to the midtermswererigged.com.
00:17:49.000I tried to come up with something that was memorable.
00:17:53.000I explain that in this particular election cycle, that we were able to recruit more than 2,000 registered voters, mainly in swing states, and to monitor what the tech companies were sending to real registered voters.
00:18:14.000And this is a mix of conservatives, liberals, and moderates through their computers.
00:18:20.000So we were actually looking on the computers of real people and capturing the ephemeral content that companies like Google use to manipulate opinions and votes on a massive scale.
00:18:34.000Normally, ephemeral content is lost forever.
00:18:37.000We have, over the past six years or so, have developed a unique system, the first one in the world that does to Google and the gang what they do to us and our kids.
00:18:51.000That is, we've learned how to monitor them to see the actual content they're sending to real people.
00:18:57.000And we preserved more than 2.4 million ephemeral experiences on Google, on Bing, Google's homepage, YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, and more.
00:19:11.000And we have been in the process of analyzing the data we've collected, looking for signs of bias or manipulation.
00:19:19.000We have found on Google in particular, extreme forms of manipulation, bias in search results, bias in YouTube videos, and in fact, of targeted messaging on their home page.
00:19:38.000By that I mean sending go vote reminders less to conservatives, sending fewer of those reminders to conservatives and more to liberals and moderates.
00:19:51.000Now, that's a very, very blatant vote manipulation.
00:19:55.000And bottom line is that we've captured a massive amount of information that is normally lost forever.
00:20:03.000Number one, number two, we found, again, these signs of bias.
00:20:10.000Number three, roughly speaking, we've only just begun analyzing the data, but that level of bias, if it had been present nationwide and Google had been using these shenanigans nationwide, would have shifted.
00:20:27.000So I mean, I don't exaggerate numbers.
00:20:30.000It would have shifted about 80 million votes in the midterm elections.
00:20:34.000Now, that's spread across hundreds of elections.
00:20:39.000So it sounds like an impossibly large number, but that's spread across hundreds of elections.
00:20:46.000This is not, remember, the midterms are not a national election.
00:20:49.000So the national election 2020, we know that they shifted about 6 million votes, almost all in the direction of Joe Biden, whom I supported.
00:21:01.000But in the midterms, they're affecting hundreds of elections, local, regional, state elections around the country.
00:21:08.000And the level of bias that they had in the content they were showing real voters would have shifted roughly 80 million votes without anyone knowing and normally without anyone capturing any of that content.
00:21:24.000Of course, our monitoring systems have changed that.
00:21:27.000And I'll just mention here before we get into some details that we are now expanding our monitoring system.
00:21:34.000Normally, we shut down after each election.
00:22:30.000The simplest one for people to picture is that you go to Google's homepage to look something up, and that homepage is seen 500 million times a day just in the United States.
00:22:43.000And there on the homepage is a big, cute cartoon saying, go vote.
00:23:01.000The problem is that even if that went to everybody, it would still be a vote manipulation because of the demographics of people who use Google.
00:23:15.000So it would still be a vote manipulation if they sent it to everyone.
00:23:18.000But we know, because we're tracking this now, we know that they're not sending it to everyone.
00:23:25.000Now, think about how powerful a manipulation that is.
00:23:29.000If you are sending vote reminders mainly or exclusively to members of one party, you can on Election Day itself generate an additional 450,000 votes for that party or that candidate.
00:23:47.000And no one will know that you have done it, except for our monitoring system, of course, which is the only one in the world.
00:24:09.000That's why in 2018, when there was a leak of emails to the Wall Street Journal and some employees at Google are talking about how can we use ephemeral experiences to change people's views about Trump's travel ban.
00:24:27.000In other words, internally in the company, they know the power that these experiences have.
00:24:34.000They know that they leave no paper trail.
00:24:36.000So they use them deliberately to influence people, more than 3.5 billion people around the world with no one to stop them.
00:24:46.000So let me just, I mean, I fully agree with everything you're saying.
00:24:58.000Well, since 2013, we've been conducting randomized controlled experiments, experiments that are extremely rigorous scientifically with real registered voters, and not just in the U.S., but other countries too.
00:25:15.000And we've been looking at one manipulation after another that we've discovered and measuring and quantifying the power that each kind of ephemeral experiences has to shift votes.
00:25:29.000So targeted messaging, we have a paper now under review with a scientific journal that measures quite precisely what the power is of targeted messaging has to shift votes and opinions.
00:25:44.000You can easily shift the voting preferences of 40% or more of undecided voters using targeted messages with no one aware that this is being done.
00:26:03.000Yeah, no, but an example would also be if you typed in, let's take someone who ran for the United States Senate unsuccessfully, Adam Laxalt, right?
00:26:12.000So if you were to type in Adam Laxalt and the top search results would say scandal or meaning recommendations, would that be an ephemeral experience?
00:26:23.000Or Donald Trump, corrupt, impeached, narcissistic, instead of stance on economy, or would that be the top search query recommendations in the tabs below?
00:27:08.000You go to google.com, you start typing something.
00:27:11.000If whatever you're typing begins with the letter A, they're going to flash suggestions at you.
00:27:16.000And usually most of those suggestions are going to be go to Amazon, go to amazon.com because Amazon is Google's largest advertiser.
00:27:28.000And Google is Amazon's largest single source of traffic.
00:27:33.000So they're starting to manipulate you from the first character you type.
00:27:36.000They're manipulating you with search suggestions.
00:27:39.000Then maybe you click on something and now down below you get search results and maybe an answer box or two or three.
00:27:47.000And those answer boxes are biased and the search results are biased.
00:27:52.000And we've measured precisely what impact biased search suggestions have on people, what impact biased answer boxes have on people.
00:28:02.000And most importantly, what impact biased search results have on people.
00:28:07.000That was our first discovery when we started realizing that the internet was offering these new methods of manipulation that had never existed before.
00:28:19.000These are extremely, extremely dangerous manipulations because, number one, people can't see them.
00:28:27.000You know, you can see a commercial or a billboard.
00:28:30.000You can't see these kinds of manipulations.
00:29:57.000I mean, is this something where they know what they are doing intentionally?
00:30:01.000And now we're seeing the fruit of that.
00:30:04.000Well, the first few years that I was doing research on ephemeral experiences and learning about the power that Google and other companies have to shift opinions and votes to impact our children.
00:30:17.000First few years I was doing this work, I really didn't know whether Google was actually using these tools and if they were using them deliberately and systematically.
00:30:28.000Now that's changed in the last few years because at this point, we have had so many whistleblowers, people who were fired by the company or who just couldn't stand it anymore and who quit.
00:30:46.000And he said straight out, I was part of a team that was manipulating the thinking and behavior and opinions of more than a billion people around the world.
00:31:01.000Zach Voorhees, when he left the company, and he'd been a senior software engineer there for more than eight years, he took with him more than 950 pages of documents and a video.
00:31:12.000And among those documents were manuals having to do with what they call algorithmic fairness.
00:31:24.000Algorithmic fairness is their internal term for social engineering.
00:31:28.000In other words, yes, they deliberately and systematically alter content that presents a worldview that they support.
00:31:40.000Well, just again, look at the numbers, look at the data.
00:31:43.00095% of donations from Google employees and the Google company go to Democrats.
00:31:51.000Now, I lean left, so I think that's just great, but I don't like a private company having the kind of power they have to shift opinions and to undermine our democracy.
00:32:05.000And we're now figuring out what they're doing to our kids.
00:32:54.000If you look up The Selfish Ledger and then Transcript or Epstein Transcript, you actually get a transcript of it with a link where you can watch this video.
00:33:03.000This video is about the company's ability to re-engineer humanity.
00:33:11.000They call it re-sequencing human behavior.
00:33:17.000And it literally says, according to company values.
00:33:22.000So, the answer to your question is: hell yes.
00:33:27.000They are deliberate and systematic in their efforts to alter our thinking and our behavior and the thinking and behavior of our kids.
00:33:50.000I think we're all aware that a lot of there's been a lot of shifting of the way our children think about a lot of topics, especially kind of socially controversial topics.
00:34:06.000There's been a lot of quick shifting in the way young people think about many things.
00:34:14.000And, you know, I find that this is a mystery to most parents, especially the speed of the change.
00:34:23.000We are now beginning to collect data from children, from young children and from teens.
00:34:29.000And we are going to see the actual content on a very large scale that these companies are sending to young people.
00:34:38.000I think we're going to find just shocking, shocking content.
00:34:44.000Not just pornography and violence, but I think we're going to see very deliberate attempts at indoctrination.
00:34:56.000I think what seems so mysterious to us when we actually dig into this kind of data is the mystery is going to be gone.
00:35:04.000We're going to see what they're doing.
00:35:06.000And we're going to stop them because that's the point now of us building the first ever national digital shield, viewing the content that the tech companies are sending to voters, to kids in all 50 states on a large scale, monitoring that 24 hours a day, looking for shenanigans and bias and manipulations and exposing them as we find them.
00:35:36.000And we've already seen two instances, one very clear instance, in which when we expose Google, they back off.
00:35:47.000So this is the solution in the absence of laws and regulations, which Washington is never going to give us.
00:35:55.000In the absence of laws and regulations, we need to work together.
00:35:59.000That means me and you, Charlie, and your viewers, we need to work together to build this nationwide monitoring system.
00:36:10.000And, you know, I've had help from some people with funding.
00:36:19.000I've had help from some media people without whom I wouldn't even be able to do any research.
00:36:26.000So people like Joe Rogan and Tucker Carlson, Mark Levin, Glenn Beck, and others.
00:36:36.000And the fact is, I couldn't do my work unless you folks, you and your colleagues were giving, you know, bringing attention to my work.
00:36:46.000And frankly, not just helping with the donations, but also putting me in touch with big foundations, putting me in touch with major donors who can provide a lot of funding.
00:37:00.000And it's very expensive to do what we're doing, but it has to be done.
00:37:06.000If we're not monitoring them the way they monitor us and our kids 24 hours a day, if we're not monitoring them, the actual content that they're sending to real people, that means we will never know the impact that they're having on our democracy, on our elections, on our children.
00:37:24.000We will never know because, again, all of these manipulations are largely invisible to people and they all use ephemeral content, which appears and impacts you and then disappears and it's gone forever and it's not stored anywhere.
00:37:41.000And no authorities can go back in time and reconstruct that content.
00:38:21.000But, you know, I would put it another way.
00:38:24.000I would say simply that I love America.
00:38:27.000You notice I'm wearing a, I don't know if you can see it, but I am wearing a White House issued pin that was given to me by someone in the White House.
00:38:35.000And that was during the Trump administration, not the Biden administration.
00:39:02.000I don't want private companies that are not accountable to the public to have this kind of power.
00:39:08.000But by setting up monitoring systems, by setting up National Digital Shield, which we'll have in place fully by the end of 2023, that will make these companies finally accountable to the public, which they've never been.
00:42:18.000The point is, if you ask our simulator a question that's politically related, we can give any answer that we want.
00:42:26.000So we've done controlled experiments showing that a single question and answer interaction on Alexa can produce shifts in voting preferences by more than 40%.
00:42:41.000And that if over and over again, Alexa gives you biased answers favoring one candidate, we can get shifts of over 65% among undecided voters with no one having the slightest idea that they've been manipulated.
00:42:59.000And so we now are very close, by the way, to adding to adding equipment and software to our monitoring capabilities.
00:43:08.000So we're going to be able to monitor sometime early next year.
00:43:12.000We're going to be able to monitor the answers that they're getting from personal assistants on their mobile phones, on their tablets, and so on.
00:43:23.000You know, we are doing to them what they do to us and our kids 24 hours a day.
00:43:31.000So my googleresearch.com, that's one place to go.
00:43:34.000Go to the midtermswererigged.com and you'll see my new article explaining how aggressively we monitored content that was being sent to people during the midterm elections.
00:43:47.000You know, what we're doing is it's very stressful, but it's also exciting.
00:43:54.000You know, we have very, very dedicated people working here.
00:43:59.000And we try to be as conscious as we can about security and safety and privacy.
00:44:06.000But you have to ask yourself this, and this, I know, bothered Joe Rogan quite a bit.
00:44:11.000Why are we the only group in the world, the only research group in the world doing this kind of research?
00:44:21.000Part of it is a little self-explanatory because it doesn't exactly win you friends.
00:44:25.000In closing here, let's talk about what individual people can do.
00:44:30.000What can somebody listening right now support you and they should.
00:44:34.000But what browser should they be using?
00:44:37.000What competitors should they be using?
00:44:52.000Okay, I'm going to walk you through it, but first, let me, since you mentioned YouTube, YouTube is one of the platforms we've been monitoring.
00:44:59.000And we found that in some of the swing states, more than 80% of the videos being recommended to people, you know, through the up next suggestion, which is that video in the upper right-hand corner, more than 80% of them, 85% or more in some states, are coming from liberal news sources.
00:45:22.000And it doesn't matter who they're going to.
00:47:08.000Brave is faster than Chrome, completely private, and it has its own search engine, which doesn't track you.
00:47:16.000So if you go to myprivacytips.com, you'll see a whole list there, seven things you can do to protect your privacy and the privacy of your kids.
00:47:29.000And I have converted, by the way, that I know of, tens of thousands of people, some of whom are very grateful, have expressed their gratitude, you know, and some of them very generously to support our research.
00:48:06.000The point is when they collect all this information, even if you're a perfectly innocent person, they can use that information to manipulate you and your family without anyone knowing because the more you know about someone, the easier it is to manipulate them.
00:48:24.000And Google literally builds these very elegant, massive digital models of all of us.
00:48:31.000And those models allow them to predict our wants and our needs and our behavior and allow them to manipulate us very subtly.