The Charlie Kirk Show - How College Is Ruining America with Heather Mac Donald

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00:00:08.000 Hey, everybody.

00:00:09.000 Today on the Charlie Kirk show, we have Heather McDonald.

00:00:12.000 She breaks apart critical race theory, BLM Incorporated, and the tragedy that colleges have become and so much more.

00:00:12.000 She's incredible.

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00:00:42.000 Heather McDonald is here, everybody.

00:00:44.000 Buckle up. 0.97

00:00:45.000 Here we go.

00:00:46.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:48.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

00:00:50.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

00:00:53.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:00:57.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:00:58.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:00:59.000 His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created.

00:01:06.000 Turning point USA.

00:01:07.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

00:01:16.000 That's why we are here.

00:01:19.000 Hey, everybody.

00:01:20.000 Welcome to this episode of the Charlie Kirk Show.

00:01:22.000 I am honored to welcome back Heather McDonald.

00:01:25.000 Heather, welcome back to the Charlie Kirk Show. 0.99

00:01:27.000 When you joined us back in late May or early June, when all of this BLM nonsense stuff was bubbling up, it was one of the best performing episodes we've ever done. 0.98

00:01:37.000 And we talked about your amazing book, War on Cops, where you really statistically and brilliantly picked apart a lot of the lies of the BLM movement. 0.92

00:01:48.000 You saw this whole thing coming well before you said something on the program where you said, this is not going to end well because these people just want total destruction. 0.89

00:01:57.000 It was so clairvoyant.

00:01:58.000 It was just looking into the future.

00:02:00.000 It was terrific.

00:02:01.000 And so you have another book I really want to focus on, though, today, because I think it gets to the even more root causes, Diversity Delusion.

00:02:07.000 Can you just tell us a little about this book and then I want to dive into parts of it?

00:02:12.000 Well, it's based on academia and the insane idea that comes out of the universities and is pumped on a daily basis into the culture at large that America is profoundly racist, that racism defines our culture, our history.

00:02:29.000 And it is empirically, demonstrably false nowhere more clearly than on university campuses.

00:02:34.000 We've seen since the George Floyd riots, every single university president more or less standing up and beating his chest saying, woe is me, I preside over racism and sexism on this campus.

00:02:47.000 That is a delusion.

00:02:48.000 It is completely fantastical.

00:02:51.000 There is no place more tolerant towards society's traditionally marginalized groups than a college campus today. 0.98

00:03:00.000 Not tolerant towards conservatives, but if you're black or female, you've got it made.

00:03:05.000 Nevertheless, students on campus are being told that they are victims or their oppressors.

00:03:10.000 They're being taught to hate Western civilization itself on the basis of the trivialities of Gonad and Melanin.

00:03:18.000 And they're going out into our culture.

00:03:20.000 They're taking over corporations.

00:03:22.000 The media is basically a mirror image of what goes on in academia.

00:03:29.000 And that sort of hatred is what we have been living through, Charlie, for the last three months with the extraordinary riots, the violence, the edging ever on a daily basis closer and closer towards civil war in this country.

00:03:45.000 And so in Diversity Delusion, it's terrific. 0.76

00:03:49.000 You talk about how the race and the gender pandering in particular corrupted the university.

00:03:57.000 We have said this before that what happens on a college campus does not stay on a college campus.

00:04:01.000 It grows to the entire part of society.

00:04:05.000 Excuse this analogy, but it's just perfect.

00:04:07.000 It's like a virus.

00:04:10.000 Can you comment on that? 1.00

00:04:12.000 Well, we have this idiotic idea that everybody in America should go to college. 0.99

00:04:18.000 The conservatives have to end that. 0.93

00:04:20.000 I know so many well-meaning Republican philanthropists in New York City who have numerous funding to the millions, billions of dollars of social uplift programs in the inner city.

00:04:32.000 They inevitably use the metric for success of how many kids in the program go to college.

00:04:38.000 We have to break that idea.

00:04:40.000 And nobody understands that better than you, Charlie.

00:04:43.000 Because as long as we continue saying that everybody should go to college, which means that college is meaningless, we should cut the population by 90% and make college a privilege for the cognitive elites, those who are willing to study the great tradition, get rid of marketing majors, get rid of the business major.

00:05:07.000 But as long as more and more people go out, they come having been browbeaten by this hatred from the moment they get into their freshman orientation by their residential advisors.

00:05:21.000 And as I say, they go into the world at large, Google the big tech companies.

00:05:27.000 When James DeMoore, this young, mild-mannered, meek computer engineer who worked at Google, was fired, not because his work was inadequate, not because he was not a good worker, was disobeying commands, but he was fed up with the constant diversity training, which again is an academic importance.

00:05:49.000 And he wrote a reasonable fact-based memo, 10 pages, suggesting that just maybe it was not sexism that explained the fact that Google is not 50-50 male-female.

00:06:04.000 Just maybe it was the average career predilections of males and females that meant that on average, and I'm not talking about anybody's daughter here.

00:06:14.000 I'm sure your daughter is going to be a Nobel Prize winner in engineering or chemistry, but on average, he's talking about distributions.

00:06:22.000 More males gravitate towards ideas-based work, abstract work, and on average, more females gravitate towards relational, hands-on, human-centered work.

00:06:33.000 DeMoore was fired.

00:06:35.000 There was a chat room discussion of this purging of heterodox thinking.

00:06:41.000 And one of the Google anonymous employees said, we have to stop this diversity thing soon because right now, our human resources department, but of course, it being Google, they have to have fancy, googly names for normal activities.

00:06:56.000 At Google, human resources is called people analytics.

00:06:59.000 Our people analytics department is basically an outpost of gender studies and black studies. 0.87

00:07:05.000 And that is true at every corporation, every big corporation in the country.

00:07:10.000 That explains their preposterous outpourings of rage against white supremacy that we saw this summer, a claim that is utterly false, Charlie.

00:07:22.000 And you're one of the few people that talk about this, Heather.

00:07:25.000 And I went through the list of corporate America because on team right, if I were to use this term, there's team right and team left in our country.

00:07:33.000 And on team right, we used to say, okay, corporations are on our side, right?

00:07:36.000 I mean, we're capitalists, you know, free market people, whatever, generally.

00:07:40.000 And team left, they're the Michael Moore people that want to get rid of corporations.

00:07:43.000 But that's not the case now.

00:07:45.000 Now you see that the corporations have been infiltrated to the HR departments through the idea of critical race theory and the CEOs who are so weak, they just want their $35 million stock bonus in the next 18 months when they get to go get their third home and retire.

00:08:01.000 They don't actually care about the fabric of the country.

00:08:03.000 And I'm saying most CEOs.

00:08:05.000 And they definitely don't want to be called the R-word by the now 3,000 new employees from Ivy League and West Coast schools that have infiltrated Lululemon to Nike to Adidas to PepsiCode to Bank of America.

00:08:18.000 Can you talk about this?

00:08:20.000 Because this is a not, I think, written about enough subject of how the infrastructure of corporations has been completely stormed, to use a storming the best deal, of almost these revolutionaries.

00:08:32.000 That's absolutely right. 0.85

00:08:35.000 You know, I've always thought that the trans issue would be finally the end to this march of the left through basic common sense and human reality.

00:08:46.000 I thought that even the most left-wing mothers would say, you are not putting a boy in my daughter's bathroom and a locker room. 0.61

00:08:56.000 But we saw when North Carolina wrote a very reasonable bathroom law saying that we are going to confine bathrooms and locker rooms for people of biological sex, you had the entire corporate America boycotting, of course, the sports industrial complex as well, boycotting North Carolina, forcing it to back down and cave.

00:09:17.000 I think what's also going on, it's not just the surreal claim of white supremacy, which is indeed surreal, Charlie.

00:09:26.000 The carnage that we're seeing in the inner city, the children that are being killed and drive-by shootings on a daily basis, it's astounding.

00:09:35.000 And America turns its eyes away from this and talks about white supremacy.

00:09:39.000 It is a bizarre moment.

00:09:41.000 But the other thing that's going on, besides the phony racial victimology charge, is the feminization of the university and the feminization of our institutions.

00:09:52.000 And I will also say this: it's also wives and daughters. 0.54

00:09:56.000 A lot of these CEOs, because on average, we know that females are far more left-wing, they're far more risk-averse, and they're whispering in the ear of their CEO husbands. 0.95

00:10:12.000 Their husbands go to dinner parties in New York City.

00:10:15.000 They don't want to be shamed there by standing up for meritocracy, for the radical idea of hiring people on the basis of competence and skills, not on the basis, as I say, of the trivialities of gonads and melanin. 0.88

00:10:32.000 But just as the universities now have been totally feminized, the bureaucracy and the professor more and more are dominated by females that are totally on the radical left, giving us the safetyism ideology that is now tearing down our economy with these grotesquely unscientifically justified coronavirus shutdowns.

00:10:57.000 That is happening in corporations as well. 0.75

00:11:00.000 I love that.

00:11:01.000 I was just taking a note, Heather.

00:11:02.000 That's so well put.

00:11:03.000 Please continue.

00:11:04.000 The safetyism.

00:11:05.000 I want to get into that, but please finish.

00:11:06.000 That's terrific.

00:11:08.000 Well, it's the idea that there shall be no more risk and the incapacity to balance cost and benefits, to balance one kind of risk against another kind of risk.

00:11:20.000 There is no more civilization-crushing mantra than stay safe.

00:11:25.000 Here's what we should be saying to each other: stay brave, stay wise, stay intellectually curious, stay transfixed by beauty and sublimity.

00:11:35.000 Stay safe is a recipe for utter stasis and shutdown.

00:11:41.000 But that again, you know, I'm going to be very blunt here, Charlie.

00:11:46.000 Civilization, by and large, is a male product.

00:11:51.000 The reckless, the negative male traits that we see in crime, in disobedience, have their upside in risk-taking competition that the passionate desire to explore.

00:12:06.000 We saw within the last year, the American Psychological Association, which is now dominated by females, it has not had a male president in a while.

00:12:15.000 For the last decade, the presidents of the APA have been overwhelmingly female.

00:12:20.000 They came out with a statement defining masculinity itself as toxic.

00:12:25.000 And so the stay-safe mantra that is killing our economy, it is destroying the future of yet unborn generations is also an expression of this feminized way of thinking that is not willing to accept some risk and simply move on with things.

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00:13:55.000 And it's bad for women too.

00:13:57.000 And that's what is the tragedy.

00:13:58.000 It's bad for everybody.

00:14:00.000 And then you see, and the studies reflect this, is you have higher than average successful people in corporate life, women that are 33, 34, 35, that if you ask them, they're actually miserable. 0.98

00:14:13.000 It's the most unhappy, most productive generation that you've seen with young women.

00:14:18.000 And then men, because the hyper-feminization of our institutions, because of our school system, they have the highest suicide rates. 0.75

00:14:26.000 They have the highest drug usage, alcoholism, and they just, they've been so emasculated.

00:14:30.000 And so I want to ask you about something that is kind of close to this, back to the corporate America piece.

00:14:36.000 And there's just so much there to unpack.

00:14:38.000 It's just so brilliant, especially that stay safe versus stay brave and stay wise.

00:14:42.000 I mean, that's just awesome.

00:14:43.000 I'm going to repeat that for the next couple of weeks, and I will give you absolute credit, which is I want you to talk about Robin D'Angelo.

00:14:50.000 This just the idea that corporate America is forking over hundreds of thousands of dollars for this kind of white guilt apology tour. 0.58

00:14:59.000 And a lot of our listeners to this program, their children are being taught by Robin DiAngelo and white fragility.

00:15:05.000 Can you talk about what guides this almost guilt-ridden philosophy?

00:15:11.000 What is behind it?

00:15:12.000 And how dangerous it really is.

00:15:15.000 Well, first of all, Robin DiAngelo is nothing new.

00:15:18.000 I wrote about the corporate diversity industry in the 1990s, and there was a guy back then, R. Roosevelt Thomas, who came out with the exact same propositions that were so roundly and justifiably mocked, that came out of the African American History Museum at the Smithsonian this summer that said things like, to be prompt is white, to care about exactitude and details and getting things right is white.

00:15:41.000 Roosevelt Thomas back in the 90s was feeding that to corporations as well, that the expectation that somebody shows up on time is just a white value.

00:15:51.000 You know, this is what is driving this white guilt.

00:15:56.000 I mean, anti-racism has become the national religion now.

00:16:01.000 I think it is because I'm going to be very frank, Charlie.

00:16:08.000 We understandably have guilt about our history, which was an inconceivable betrayal of our founding ideals.

00:16:15.000 And it's hard to fathom how, for so many decades and centuries, Americans could be blind to how grotesquely the slavery and de jury segregation violated our Declaration of Independence and our founding principles.

00:16:31.000 Nevertheless, I assert, Charlie, that things have gone 180 degrees in the opposite direction.

00:16:42.000 Nobody does not accept for an instant what I call the myth of bias.

00:16:48.000 I refuse to give the usual disclaimer, which is, well, of course, we all know there's racist. 0.97

00:16:53.000 Well, I'll say that if we include black racists, because I've been in Harlem housing projects and I've been told by the residents of the Taft houses, don't go to the next door Johnson houses because they really hate whites there. 0.86

00:17:07.000 Let us not pretend that there is not a strong current of anti-white racism in black culture. 0.99

00:17:16.000 Today, if you want to get your kid into Harvard, you better hope he's checking off a fake box, a real box that he's black. 0.80

00:17:23.000 There's not a single institution in this country where you are not privileged, where there is not black privilege instead of white privilege. 0.95

00:17:31.000 So, what is going on here? 0.62

00:17:33.000 Why cannot we not identify that reality?

00:17:38.000 The myth of bias is the dominant narrative in our culture today.

00:17:43.000 It holds that any absence of proportional racial representation in any institution, whether it's Google, whether it's the Bank of America, whether it's Simpson and Thatcher law firm, or Sullivan and Cromwell, or the media, or STEM departments, big tech, it must by definition be the result of racism.

00:18:07.000 What we're not allowed to talk about is behavioral differences, the vast academic skills gap, differences in culture.

00:18:16.000 Let's just compare the Asian family academic culture to everybody else, frankly.

00:18:22.000 I mean, the Asians are running circles around everybody. 1.00

00:18:25.000 They're whooping everybody's ass. 1.00

00:18:27.000 But if you want to look at the biggest extremes, compare the Asian academic culture with the anti-acting white culture that is so prevalent in black communities that says, if you make an academic effort, if you take your homework home, if you do it, if you study for tests, you're acting white. 0.99

00:18:45.000 Those are the explanations that give us the real understanding of why there is not proportional representation. 0.71

00:18:52.000 Whites turn their eyes away from that behavior. 0.97

00:18:56.000 They will not look at it. 0.99

00:18:57.000 We are not talking about the three dozen black children who have been killed in drive-by shootings since George Floyd this summer. 0.65

00:19:06.000 Nobody wants to look at it for whatever reason, whether because I think blacks are terrified that that skills gap is never going to close for whatever reason, and they would rather blame themselves for phantom racism. 0.51

00:19:21.000 And this is an argument Thomas Sowell has been making for a couple decades. 0.65

00:19:25.000 And now you're starting to see it come to fruition, which is the idea of white guilt.

00:19:31.000 And also, he grew up in Harlem, and he said that in the 40s and 50s, when he grew up, when the black family was really intact, actually, black literacy rates and black success and wages were outpacing the white equivalent in a couple neighborhoods over.

00:19:48.000 Obviously, we know that is no longer the case, but Thomas Soule makes the argument that there are other things besides just racism to maybe blame for different outcomes.

00:19:57.000 However, the critical race theorists reject that.

00:20:00.000 Their idea is that racism is everywhere.

00:20:04.000 The institution is built on racism, and we must topple it all down together. 0.81

00:20:08.000 The whole thing, that it is a construct of the white supremacists.

00:20:11.000 Please.

00:20:12.000 I would make two points.

00:20:14.000 I've come to the conclusion that the fundamental difference between liberals and conservatives is that liberals look out on the world, they see socioeconomic disparities, they will only accept systemic, a structural explanation.

00:20:28.000 They refuse to look at the individual choices that people make and culture.

00:20:33.000 Conservatives look at the world and they see a whole slew of bad decisions, above all, having children out of wedlock.

00:20:41.000 Now, the right says that the left is blind to these patent, patent individual differences.

00:20:49.000 The left will say that the right is blamed, is blind to the patent differences in opportunity.

00:20:56.000 Who's got the?

00:20:57.000 I obviously think that the right is more correct than the left in that.

00:21:02.000 And I don't think that we deny for an instant that, of course, there's some children who are born with much more privilege than others.

00:21:11.000 But I still think that we know we've had something called the success recipe since William Galston, a Clinton domestic policy advisor back in the 1990s, said to avoid poverty in this country, all you have to do is three things.

00:21:25.000 You graduate from high school.

00:21:28.000 Please note, not college.

00:21:30.000 You work full-time at a job, any job, including a minimum wage job, and you wait until you're married to have children.

00:21:37.000 Everybody who does that, you have 75% chance of being in the middle class.

00:21:41.000 So it is behavior that matters.

00:21:43.000 I will add one more thing.

00:21:45.000 Let us look again at the idea that Republicans in particular are racist.

00:21:51.000 White Republicans have had one love affair after another with black politicians, whether it's Alan Keyes, Alan West, Herman Cain, Colin Powell, you name it.

00:22:02.000 What matters is bourgeois values. 0.58

00:22:05.000 What we're going to get a lot of white flight coming up, Charlie, because of these unchecked riots. 0.78

00:22:11.000 What people care about is not color, it is behavior.

00:22:15.000 And if there were no behavioral differences, there would be no residential segregation.

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00:24:20.000 So just to play devil's advocate, Heather, I hear this all the time from even Republicans and conservatives.

00:24:25.000 And I have a way of handling this and countering it, but I'd love your take.

00:24:29.000 They say, Charlie, I agree there's no white privilege in the sense that you don't have any sort of advantage because of the color of your skin.

00:24:36.000 But because of the landscape and white people are generally more likely to be born to a two-parent household and black people are not, wouldn't that then play into the idea that an average white American would have a higher likelihood to succeed than a black American, therefore giving some credence to the idea of some form of privilege?

00:24:55.000 How do you unpack that?

00:24:57.000 Not going back 100 years or 50 years, but even some center-right suburban voters, they look at some of the data and the landscape that I think is not a complete picture, but they sympathize with some of this narrative.

00:25:11.000 How do you unpack that?

00:25:12.000 What's your most effective way to cross-examine that?

00:25:16.000 I wish I'd come across that argument.

00:25:18.000 You're speaking to more sane people than I am.

00:25:21.000 I have never heard anybody never on the left acknowledge that the real privilege that we're talking about is two-parent family.

00:25:29.000 Well, these are people on the right.

00:25:31.000 I'm just saying these are some people on the center right that are trying to wrestle with it, right?

00:25:35.000 So anyway, please continue.

00:25:37.000 I would say the solution to that is to have more families.

00:25:41.000 The idea that, because there's no other solution, there is no other solution because transfers don't work, redistribution of wealth doesn't work.

00:25:52.000 And here's what really doesn't work: racial preferences.

00:25:57.000 You know, that is the solution of choice, which is that we have this massive academic skills gap.

00:26:05.000 There's a standard deviation difference. 0.93

00:26:07.000 You know, over 40% blacks, eighth graders do not even have what is known as basic math skills. 1.00

00:26:14.000 Basic math skills are defined as merely partial mastery of eighth-grade math concepts. 0.98

00:26:21.000 40% of blacks don't even have partial mastery.

00:26:24.000 And yet we're supposed to believe that if we don't have 13% black engineers in any every department in this engineering department in this country, it's because of racism. 0.89

00:26:36.000 The fact of the matter is, is that it's behavioral.

00:26:40.000 Is those decisions that people make giving preferences to people who are not academically qualified hurts them?

00:26:49.000 They end up not succeeding.

00:26:51.000 So, if somebody is willing to say that, yes, there's family privilege, the solution to that is to start valorizing fathers, to reject the feminist line that strong women can do it all, and say, on average, children need mothers and fathers, that they are complementary.

00:27:09.000 There are on average differences, and children, girls as well as boys, need fathers, as President Obama acknowledged in a moment of clarity as he was running for president the first time around in 2008.

00:27:26.000 Heather, you just hit on something very interesting that I just thought of, which is if you read the Black Lives Matter website, BLM Inc., which we still don't have an address listed or a phone number or staff, we don't know where the money's going.

00:27:37.000 Different podcasts for a different time, but it's one of the most suspicious money transfer schemes I've ever seen.

00:27:44.000 But it's an interesting intersection of this feminist lie and the kind of critical race theory when they go down and they say we reject the Western prescribed nuclear family, where they're almost trying to have a fusion of kind of just deconstructionism on the nuclear family side and also on the racial side.

00:28:03.000 And I think that's an interesting piece of it because they don't acknowledge that fathers have any role whatsoever.

00:28:09.000 It's this hyper-feminization alongside the hyper-racialization of our country kind of put together.

00:28:15.000 Can you comment on that, on how these two groups have almost kind of fused together in this activist moment?

00:28:23.000 Well, you know, it's maybe there's a moment of hands across the water, but what I see is rather a dog-eat-dog, ruthless competition of who gets to be top dog on the victim poll. 0.98

00:28:34.000 You know, at times the feminists win with campus rape, idiocy, and at times the underrepresented minorities win. 0.98

00:28:43.000 At this point, yes, you do have a fusionism and it's rationalizing the real. 0.99

00:28:47.000 If in fact you have 70% out of wedlock birth rate among blacks and you are refusing to talk about personal responsibility, your only other alternative is to say that fathers don't matter.

00:28:58.000 But I'm in contact right now with a head of security at a small college who has been forced to take a two-week leave of absence because a female student reported to the police department in the city where the college is located that she thinks that she was the victim of an attempted abduction attempt.

00:29:21.000 A guy drove up in a car and tried to get her in.

00:29:24.000 And the campus security chief, consistent with the requirements of the federal McClary Act, which is to protect females from this alleged tsunami of campus violence, put out a bulletin to his campus saying that somebody thinks that she was a victim of an attempt.

00:29:46.000 And he described the language being spoken by the man who tried to get him.

00:29:52.000 There was an uproar.

00:29:54.000 This man is maybe at risk of his job.

00:29:57.000 The college president wrote the most.

00:30:00.000 He said a skin color.

00:30:01.000 I'm just guessing, I'm conjecturing that was.

00:30:03.000 Very less.

00:30:05.000 So what we have at this moment is the top dog are the race activists, because at a different moment, this is a female claiming that she is at risk of sexual assault.

00:30:19.000 But now instead, the entire campus is united against this security guy to get rid of him.

00:30:26.000 So it's a constantly fluctuating thing.

00:30:29.000 And I've been noticing, I've got a piece coming out in City Journal on what I call the myth of bias and going through the data that are the real explanation as far as the academic skills gap for why there's not proportional representation.

00:30:44.000 But I note that now, even if you're headed by a white female, like the left-wing public radio station WNYC in New York City, there's been a revolt among staffers because they recently named a white female to head the news division.

00:31:03.000 And this is not good enough. 1.00

00:31:05.000 She's female, yay, but she's white. 1.00

00:31:08.000 So now we have whiteness trumping femaleness as the worst sin you can possibly have. 0.99

00:31:15.000 Quite honestly, I just hope they all tear each other apart. 1.00

00:31:18.000 I do too.

00:31:19.000 It's delicious.

00:31:20.000 Yeah, I hope that they are the same sort of intensity they have after conservatives just go at it.

00:31:27.000 I want to get your comment on one thing, Heather.

00:31:29.000 I thought it was absolutely brilliant.

00:31:30.000 President Trump announced that he's going after critical race theory.

00:31:33.000 He wants it removed from the federal curriculum of teaching employees.

00:31:37.000 He announced the 1776 Commission.

00:31:39.000 But also, Heather, I love this.

00:31:41.000 It was not front page news, but I just thought of you when I read it.

00:31:46.000 Princeton University came out with this long speech saying that racism is in the roots of our school.

00:31:52.000 We never have been able to get rid of it.

00:31:54.000 And then the Department of Education came out and said, oh, really?

00:31:57.000 So you've been in violation of the Civil Rights Act since the 1960s?

00:32:01.000 And they're investigating Princeton.

00:32:02.000 Now, Princeton's like, oh, no, we actually didn't mean it that way.

00:32:05.000 Can you talk about it?

00:32:06.000 Because I actually think that the more they go on this sort of atonement tour, they're actually opening themselves up to a lot of vulnerabilities they might not have expected.

00:32:15.000 It's hilarious.

00:32:16.000 It really is.

00:32:17.000 It was a stroke of genius, something I've been calling for because I've been saying these presidents, you know, name some names.

00:32:22.000 Who are the faculty that are the racists that are denying opportunity to black students?

00:32:26.000 Answer, zero.

00:32:28.000 There are none.

00:32:30.000 What are the students that you're admitting, this wave of racists?

00:32:34.000 What's wrong with your admissions procedures?

00:32:36.000 Why haven't you resigned if you preside over this racist institution?

00:32:40.000 And it makes no difference because, again, it is a religion of anti-racism. 0.96

00:32:45.000 Whites are in this paroxysm of, it's hysterical. 0.98

00:32:50.000 It's a form of psychosis. 0.98

00:32:53.000 There's never been a civilization like this, Charlie, that is so self-canceling, that is so denying their accomplishments without ground.

00:33:01.000 It is just beyond belief.

00:33:03.000 And as I say, you said it right.

00:33:04.000 Where do we end up?

00:33:06.000 Maybe nowhere.

00:33:07.000 So this can happen.

00:33:08.000 They should bring these suits not just against universities, but against the corporations.

00:33:13.000 If you're also saying, of course, we're racist.

00:33:15.000 We've got to purge racism.

00:33:17.000 There's no end to this.

00:33:18.000 The reaction to the Justice Department letter of intent to investigate is hilarious.

00:33:24.000 I mean, it's completely illogical.

00:33:26.000 I mean, I can't even begin to summarize that they're saying, well, just because we're copying to systemic racism doesn't mean that you should investigate us for racism.

00:33:34.000 Like, what?

00:33:35.000 I just don't know.

00:33:36.000 But it's the same thing. 0.90

00:33:38.000 As I've always said, if parents started believing this ridiculous, nauseating, narcissistic narrative about we're a hotbed of campus rape and said, well, I'm not sending my daughter there. 0.71

00:33:51.000 The college of presidents and campus bureaucracy would turn on a dime in an instant and say, well, actually, now that you mention it, there's no safer place for your daughter to be than my college campus, which is true.

00:34:04.000 There is the rate of crime on college campuses is less than any other spot in America, and yet they all virtue signal by saying, and they compete.

00:34:14.000 There was a time, Yale was very angry when Harvard reported more sexual assaults in its ClearIACT federal report than Yale did.

00:34:23.000 And Yale was grousing, well, they're probably double counting or something.

00:34:26.000 So they compete to have the most reported sexual assaults, even though they know that these are all drunken hookups.

00:34:33.000 It's just, it's a completely bizarre, contradictory, psychotic set of narratives that they're promulgating.

00:34:45.000 In our fast-paced world, it's tough to make reading a priority.

00:34:48.000 At least it used to be.

00:34:50.000 A new app called Thinker has solved that problem by summarizing the key ideas from new and noteworthy nonfiction, giving you access to an entire library of great books in bite-sized form.

00:34:59.000 Read or listen to hundreds of titles in a matter of minutes, including old classics like Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People, to recent bestsellers like Jordan Peterson's 12 Rules for Life.

00:35:09.000 If you want to challenge your preconceptions, expand your horizons and become a better thinker, go to thinker.org slash Charlie.

00:35:16.000 That's T-H-I-N-K-R.org slash Charlie.

00:35:19.000 We have that link in the podcast description to start an extended free trial and put your mind in motion.

00:35:23.000 You guys know that we talk about thinker all the time.

00:35:25.000 Learn the great books, understand these ideas.

00:35:28.000 Thinker, no e dot org slash Charlie, thinker.org slash Charlie.

00:35:37.000 This is what happens, though, when over a couple of decades, you don't teach the classics, you don't value dialogue, you get away from reason.

00:35:46.000 And over a couple decades of just postmodern indulgence, this is the, we are living in the world of Michelle Foucault and Jacques Derrida and Herbert Mokusa, where they said very clearly there's no such thing as truth.

00:36:01.000 You have your own truth, no data.

00:36:03.000 Science is just a tool, the white supremacist construct. 0.98

00:36:06.000 And that sounds foolish and it's a bad idea for five years, but after 25 years and those people grow up in positions of power, they're going to start acting on these ridiculously, as you say, psychotic and insane ideas. 0.94

00:36:18.000 Last question here, Heather. 0.96

00:36:19.000 We have a lot of young parents that listen to our podcast that have five-year-olds, 10-year-olds, people that are going into college.

00:36:26.000 You understand this landscape better than anybody else.

00:36:29.000 What is your specific advice?

00:36:31.000 Knowing what you know, what would you tell a young parent that wants what's best for their kid to flourish in Western society?

00:36:39.000 Well, first of all, I just want to disagree with you a little bit.

00:36:43.000 I know that explanation that this all comes from a nihilism towards truth.

00:36:47.000 The left thinks it knows the truth.

00:36:49.000 They are absolutely morally righteous.

00:36:50.000 They're not relativists when it comes to white supremacy.

00:36:53.000 So I don't think that's the problem.

00:36:54.000 I think the problem is the decades of cultivation of hatred towards Western culture, failing to teach students to be down on their knees in gratitude for this beauty.

00:37:03.000 That's what parents have to do is if your school is not doing it, go and find out what the classics are of British children's literature, works of such monumental subtlety, irony, sympathy for the human imagination, Wind in the Willows, Winnie the Pooh, Lewis Carroll, all of these great works.

00:37:29.000 Start young, give them great language, continue throughout their grade school years, their high school years.

00:37:38.000 Watch what they're reading in school.

00:37:40.000 Make sure they're getting exposed to Herman Melville, to Mark Twain, without apology, to Shakespeare, to Anthony Trollope and George Eliot.

00:37:54.000 And in college, there's very few left.

00:37:58.000 The St. John's colleges are still committed to a great books curriculum.

00:38:02.000 Hillsdale, obviously, there's some Catholic schools here and there, although Notre Dame has gone very left.

00:38:10.000 I'm a believer that we need to, as you know, I mean, you're defund the university as the essential activity.

00:38:18.000 If we can't replicate the problem is that the parents want the status that the traditional colleges confer.

00:38:27.000 I would love to see a revival of the myth of the tradition of the tutor, 18th-century aristocratic British parents used to have a tutor take their child on the grand tour in Europe and go visit Rome and Venice and Vienna and learn history, see that great art, see that great architecture.

00:38:46.000 We could do this maybe in sort of group pods or something, but it would be a real dilemma as a parent, and I don't know how I would answer it, frankly, of whether you would send your child to a status-conferring institution and roll the dice that you are wasting $200,000 of tuition for more inculcation of hatred and no learning whatsoever.

00:39:15.000 Yeah, I tell young parents all the time: I say, if you're not prepared to turn to your neighbor and say, my kid's not going to college, and I'm okay with that, it's far more about you than it's about your kid.

00:39:26.000 It's so much about status.

00:39:28.000 A lot of the parents' ego is into this, and it's hardwired.

00:39:32.000 And it's hardwired into how we do public polling of our president.

00:39:35.000 We have college-educated and non-college-educated. 0.98

00:39:39.000 No parent looks at that and they say to their kid, Oh, I want you to be in the non-college because we're really saying, Look at the smart people and the dumb people. 0.74

00:39:44.000 That's really kind of how the polling is done.

00:39:47.000 And so it's subtly and not so subtly pushed forward.

00:39:50.000 And we have successfully divested $70 million from higher education since mid-July.

00:39:55.000 And that's just a start.

00:39:56.000 That's just a small little micron of what needs to actually happen.

00:40:00.000 But I think your commentary on this, Heather, is so needed.

00:40:04.000 Just final thing.

00:40:05.000 Can you just kind of give us an update on?

00:40:07.000 You mentioned this.

00:40:08.000 It's not exactly a happy note to land on, but it's important.

00:40:11.000 Just some of the statistics of the urban carnage and violence that have happened since mid-June.

00:40:15.000 You accurately predicted, you said urban violence will go up.

00:40:18.000 Ferguson effect is going to happen.

00:40:20.000 This was before, by the way, Jacob Blake, this was before the rioting actually got even more out of control.

00:40:27.000 I talked to you in early June, and you said so clearly, you said we are going to see a nearly 50 to 70% increase in urban violence.

00:40:34.000 I think we've seen that.

00:40:35.000 Have we?

00:40:36.000 And what is your kind of analysis statistically on this?

00:40:40.000 Well, it's going to get worse.

00:40:41.000 If this narrative doesn't change, it's going to get worse.

00:40:43.000 Yes, some cities have seen 200% increase in shootings and homicides. 0.98

00:40:47.000 Victims overwhelmingly black.

00:40:49.000 The police, we're living through rolling riots on a daily basis.

00:40:53.000 Yes, we've had the attempted assassination of two cops in Compton, California, two sheriff's deputies.

00:40:59.000 That is the tip of the iceberg, Charlie.

00:41:01.000 Every single day, when cops get out of their car today to make when they're, if they are doing it at all, to make a proactive stop, something they don't need to do, they find themselves routinely surrounded by hostile jeering crowds throwing things at them.

00:41:16.000 This a couple weeks ago or this week in Baltimore, detectives were trying to arrest two robbers outside of a downtown hotel.

00:41:25.000 They took off, they tried to, they ran into the cop car.

00:41:27.000 They tried to run the detectives down.

00:41:30.000 Cops are being shot at routinely.

00:41:32.000 They're walking off the job, either figuratively or literally.

00:41:36.000 The resignations are going way up.

00:41:38.000 No cop.

00:41:38.000 Nobody is going to go into policing in this country.

00:41:42.000 So we are seeing a spreading urban violence at a rate that I've never witnessed.

00:41:48.000 And it's moving into downtown Chicago.

00:41:52.000 You know, we had the riots there.

00:41:53.000 We now have a new standard emerging where you had riots in Lancaster, Pennsylvania over the weekend that were set off by a cop shooting a man who was lunging at him with the knife.

00:42:06.000 By all appearances, this was a clearly justified shooting.

00:42:09.000 The officers are justified in using lethal force to end the threat of lethal force.

00:42:16.000 Nevertheless, we saw the usual riots, the tearing down of cop cars, the arson, the destruction of businesses.

00:42:23.000 So cops are now got the message: you can't even defend yourself against lethal force.

00:42:29.000 You're supposed to take it as penance for your racism.

00:42:33.000 We are unwinding the criminal justice system. 0.61

00:42:35.000 There's not a single law enforcement practice, whether it's bail, whether it's public order enforcement, that is not being undone because they all have disparate impact on blacks. 0.77

00:42:45.000 Again, it's the myth of riots. 0.78

00:42:47.000 It's the myth of bias.

00:42:48.000 If we do not take on the myth of bias and provide alternative explanations, Charlie, civilization is over.

00:42:57.000 Criminal justice is over.

00:42:58.000 The study of literature, well, it's already over, but it will get worse.

00:43:02.000 Washington, D.C. is over.

00:43:03.000 I mean, we're going to, every founder is going to be torn down.

00:43:07.000 You're speaking my language.

00:43:08.000 I say this, and people used to say I was alarmist.

00:43:10.000 Now they think I'm spot on, but you're exactly right.

00:43:13.000 The two books, War on Cops, Diversity, Delusion.

00:43:15.000 Heather, thank you again for joining us.

00:43:17.000 I'm going to tell everyone, just listen to this one episode because it's just so much wisdom here.

00:43:21.000 So thank you so much.

00:43:23.000 And I hope next time we speak, we'll turn some of these trends around, but I'm not totally hopeful on that.

00:43:28.000 But thank you so much, Heather.

00:43:29.000 Appreciate it.

00:43:29.000 Thank you, Charlie.

00:43:30.000 Always an honor.

00:43:31.000 Thank you so much.

00:43:32.000 Talk to you soon.

00:43:35.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:43:36.000 What a great interview that was at Heather McDonald.

00:43:38.000 Please get involved with Turning PointUSA at tpusa.com, tpusa.com.

00:43:43.000 It is your place to get engaged, get involved to help win America's culture war.

00:43:47.000 If you are young, help start a high school chapter, start a college chapter, get involved on campus at tpusa.com for the values of free enterprise, strong America, and individual liberty.

00:43:59.000 Please help support our efforts at tpusa.com, tpusa.com.

00:44:05.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:44:06.000 God bless.

00:44:08.000 Talk to you soon.

The Charlie Kirk Show - September 23, 2020

How College Is Ruining America with Heather Mac Donald

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