The Charlie Kirk Show - How Conservatives Regroup and Rebuild with Will Chamberlain

00:00:00.000 Hey, everybody.

00:00:00.000 Happy Monday.

00:00:01.000 Usually I do an Ask Me Anything episode, but things have been a little bit different this week.

00:00:06.000 I wanted to join my friend Will Chamberlain, one of the smartest guys I know, a strategic and analytic thinker, to this Ask Me Anything episode where I ask Will about what's going on with the Georgia loss, the chaos on Capitol Hill, and President Donald Trump getting deleted from Twitter and Parler getting attacked from three different multi-trillion dollar companies.

00:00:31.000 That and so much more.

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00:00:52.000 Will Chamberlain from Human Events is here.

00:00:54.000 Buckle up, everybody.

00:00:55.000 Here we go.

00:00:57.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:59.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

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00:01:04.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:01:07.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:01:08.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:01:09.000 His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.

00:01:18.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

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00:02:19.000 Hey, everybody, welcome to this episode of the Charlie Kirk Show.

00:02:21.000 In place of an ask-me-anything, I'm going to ask Will anything, and this will hopefully be a weekly episode.

00:02:28.000 Will Chamberlain, head of human events, does some great work, and he is very smart, and I really wanted to talk to him for a variety of different reasons.

00:02:37.000 But Will, this was one of the worst weeks ever.

00:02:40.000 Yes, I would agree with that, Charlie.

00:02:42.000 It's been, I mean, you know, one after the other of really terrible events.

00:02:46.000 I mean, the losing the Senate races, the riots on the 6th, and the massive escalation of dig tech censorship.

00:02:53.000 I can't think of a worse week this year for the conservative movement.

00:02:57.000 The only one contesting that would maybe be the week of the election, but even so, still very, very bad.

00:03:02.000 Yeah, I mean, it set us back dramatically.

00:03:04.000 So I want you just to take the floor, unpack how are you analyzing these things independently?

00:03:11.000 I want to get to tech in a minute, but first, just can you help unpack Georgia and most specifically the riots?

00:03:17.000 I have deleted Twitter from my phone.

00:03:19.000 People don't believe me, but I actually don't have the twitter.com app.

00:03:23.000 And people, that way I can think more clearly.

00:03:27.000 And I have been out of touch of how most conservatives are kind of talking about this.

00:03:31.000 I've been reading some opinion papers.

00:03:33.000 I would imagine there's widespread condemnation.

00:03:36.000 I know there's some people that are still kind of in the camp of trying to justify what happened.

00:03:43.000 But I mean, I'm in the complete belief of complete and total, you know, denunciation.

00:03:48.000 Where are we at here?

00:03:49.000 Yeah.

00:03:50.000 I mean, I don't see anybody really justifying it except some very, very fringe people.

00:03:55.000 It's, you know, clearly this is not what we do.

00:03:58.000 We don't riot.

00:03:59.000 Don't, you know, this is not the right style.

00:04:01.000 And even if there was somehow like some preposterous ethical argument in favor of it, the right doesn't have the institutions to do it.

00:04:09.000 I mean, compare that to the left.

00:04:10.000 They have things like the National Lawyers Guild and all these grassroots organizers who are there to back up people.

00:04:17.000 I mean, who riot.

00:04:18.000 Like they, you know, they write down the number of the lawyer they're supposed to call to get bailed out.

00:04:23.000 So, I mean, it's just a terrible strategic mistake and also just horribly immoral.

00:04:28.000 So we shouldn't do that sort of thing.

00:04:31.000 I think, you know, from my perspective, Georgia is a serious disappointment.

00:04:35.000 I think in many ways, we kind of suppressed our own turnout by, you know, like not doing well enough in terms of explaining people, explaining why people needed to go out and turn out to vote, even in the face of questions about election fraud.

00:04:51.000 Like, I don't know that we did a great job of that.

00:04:52.000 And I think we probably suppressed our own turnout a little bit.

00:04:55.000 And the Democrats were super motivated.

00:04:57.000 And it's really cruddy to lose that.

00:04:59.000 And then to top it all off, I mean, massive big tech censorship.

00:05:02.000 You know, I've had spent the last two years preaching that we needed to be more aggressive, regulate, always on kind of the bleeding edge of this issue.

00:05:10.000 And I got so much pushback on, well, they're private companies.

00:05:15.000 We should let them do what they want.

00:05:17.000 And entrepreneurship is the way to solve this.

00:05:18.000 And I feel like I have been proven decidedly right.

00:05:21.000 And I'm not happy about it.

00:05:23.000 Yeah, I mean, I've never wanted to be wrong about something more.

00:05:27.000 But Will, it was no coincidence that, you know, we lose the Georgia runoffs mostly because of apathy.

00:05:32.000 And there was probably, you know, some shenanigans baked into it.

00:05:35.000 But we just know how many human beings showed up in certain areas, like how many they walked the door on election day, and that number was down.

00:05:44.000 Right.

00:05:44.000 So I'm very open-minded when it comes to mail and ballot stuff.

00:05:48.000 I'm sure that all of that, but you got to bake that in, right?

00:05:51.000 It's a contest in its own isolated kind of, like you're not going to fix the signature verification ahead of the January runoffs.

00:05:59.000 You just give up.

00:06:00.000 That was the answer a lot of people had. 1.00

00:06:02.000 And that is so unbelievably foolish. 0.98

00:06:04.000 And then you just basically gave cover fire to these multi-trillion dollar companies. 0.99

00:06:09.000 And so in one week, let's look what happened in one week.

00:06:12.000 We lost the United States Senate.

00:06:15.000 We lost the U.S. Capitol building.

00:06:17.000 And with it, I think years of hard-earned credibility the conservative movement had gained to show that we were successfully repudiating radical fringe voices and also to show that we were the peaceful ones.

00:06:32.000 And we'll get into if there were other agitators and stuff.

00:06:34.000 I think there's evidence to show that there were some bad actors there.

00:06:37.000 But Will, you and I both know too, based on the arrest records, there are people that call themselves Trump supporters that were there too.

00:06:43.000 Let's not fool ourselves.

00:06:45.000 And then as if that wasn't enough, the red terror on social media has now been completely implemented.

00:06:53.000 The president, they took the president off Instagram, Snapchat, YouTube, Twitter, Shopify, Spotify, as if they wanted to just cut him off from listening to music.

00:07:07.000 And then on top of that, the parlor thing, which I want to get to.

00:07:11.000 And so this week was probably one of the most destructive and difficult weeks.

00:07:17.000 If you just look at it from an infrastructure standpoint, right?

00:07:20.000 Yeah.

00:07:20.000 That I can ever remember.

00:07:22.000 Right.

00:07:23.000 Like we found, you know, after November, I thought, okay, like it's a bad outcome, a very bad outcome to lose the presidency, but it's not catastrophic.

00:07:30.000 We didn't lose the Senate because we didn't think, oh, we're going to lose the runoffs.

00:07:32.000 Like we were ahead in the November election and both of the runoff elections, if you added up all the Republican votes versus the Democrat votes, but we managed to lose those seats.

00:07:44.000 And it's just really distressing from a pure political power perspective, but also in terms of our credibility.

00:07:51.000 Like, you know, people would ask me, like, why was the security so lax?

00:07:54.000 And I think one of the reasons is we, you know, Trump supporters and the conservatives had built up a lot of credibility with Capitol Police.

00:08:00.000 We'd held a lot of protests and they were always peaceful, like completely peaceful.

00:08:05.000 That's a really good point.

00:08:06.000 Yeah.

00:08:07.000 And now, I mean, now that's gone.

00:08:08.000 I mean, no matter what, they would have defaulted to the assumption that Antifa were the real violent fanatics and didn't wouldn't have expected Trump supporters to just overrun, you know, modest police presence.

00:08:20.000 But that's what happened.

00:08:22.000 And there were some agitators and some people that were part of, you know, BLM stuff that was peppered in throughout the.

00:08:27.000 Sure.

00:08:29.000 But just to blame it solely and simply on that, I think is not a correct characterization.

00:08:34.000 I just, I don't think that's right.

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00:09:30.000 And so then the right, whatever you want to call it, the chaos on the Capitol Hill happened.

00:09:37.000 And then the left, I think there was a couple different reactions.

00:09:41.000 I think some of them got angry and then some of them got, in some ways, very excited because they finally were able to do what they've wanted to do for the last couple of years, which is the most comprehensive social media cleanse in American history.

00:09:55.000 I agree.

00:09:56.000 And so let's go through this piece by piece.

00:09:59.000 The president's no longer on Twitter.

00:10:01.000 How are we, what are we supposed to make of this?

00:10:03.000 I mean, it's a dramatic moment for the country.

00:10:07.000 It is indicative that if the president doesn't have protection on his Twitter account from arbitrary banning it, then none of us do.

00:10:17.000 All of us are basically on these platforms with the sword of Damocles hanging over our account, no matter how much work we put into them, years we spend on the platform, reputation and credibility we've built up.

00:10:27.000 That's all at risk.

00:10:30.000 And it's also a dramatic, you know, it's a loss of a major communications platform and tool for the conservative movement.

00:10:37.000 I mean, that Twitter account in many ways, you know, could make or break lower, you know, conservative candidates in congressional races.

00:10:46.000 It could keep, you know, make conservative points.

00:10:50.000 Like it could keep conservative legislators in line, afraid of what would happen of the consequences of a tweet from the president that criticized them.

00:10:59.000 And it was a rallying cry for the conservatives generally.

00:11:03.000 It's not good for us to have lost, you know, I mean, it was the sixth biggest account on Twitter and probably the most engaged with.

00:11:09.000 I don't know about the numbers there.

00:11:11.000 It's a big loss to our movement because, you know, we have Fox News, but the left has all the major networks and MSNBC and CNN.

00:11:20.000 Losing big, big social media accounts like that is a loss for our movement generally.

00:11:25.000 What are we supposed to make of this?

00:11:26.000 And then I want to get to the next point, which is the parlor thing, which is arguably even more dangerous, which is hard to believe.

00:11:36.000 Right.

00:11:37.000 You know, what a make of it.

00:11:38.000 I think it's a realization that the sort of, I've talked about a public-private partnership of censorship as being the big threat, right?

00:11:46.000 Because the government on its own can't censor you.

00:11:49.000 Private companies can.

00:11:50.000 And if government officials are encouraging private companies to censor and the private companies are so inclined, then they work together and that's a nightmare environment for our ability to speak.

00:12:01.000 That's what you saw, right?

00:12:02.000 It's Michelle Obama going and a bunch of liberal activists going to Twitter saying, please censor these people.

00:12:09.000 That encourages an internal employee revolt at the company to push for censorship.

00:12:14.000 I think we saw a news report about 100 or so employees demanding Trump be banned.

00:12:19.000 And then the consequence, the banning of one of the biggest accounts in the country in the world.

00:12:26.000 So that public-private partnership is there.

00:12:29.000 We're going to have to deal with it for the next four years.

00:12:31.000 Probably we don't really have, we have limited power bases with which to attack it and thwart it.

00:12:37.000 I mean, hopefully we can do things at the state level to put a wrench in the gears.

00:12:42.000 But there's, you know, we are going to have to deal with that.

00:12:46.000 And that's going to put everyone on our side.

00:12:50.000 It's going to mean a lot of discipline.

00:12:52.000 Like we have to be disciplined because it sort of falls onto the parlor point.

00:12:57.000 Parlor is not the solution to this problem, ultimately.

00:13:00.000 And this week's events bear that out too.

00:13:03.000 Ultimately, we are going to need to fight for our right to be on major social media platforms.

00:13:09.000 And that's going to, you know, like I see us in sort of face of, you know, again, the analogy is difficult because the problems we're facing are not as dramatic as the ones faced by the civil rights movement, but it still needs to be conceptualized that way as though we're facing systemic private discrimination against conservatives.

00:13:26.000 And the proper remedy for that is ultimately going to be a movement that pushes for changes in the law.

00:13:32.000 Yeah.

00:13:32.000 And I like that term power base because that's exactly right.

00:13:35.000 And that's what was so unfortunate about losing Georgia and what all these people that were calling for a boycott of Georgia were too stupid, if I may say, or they just didn't care because they're like, oh, they're all a bunch of rhinos. 0.99

00:13:49.000 I say, wait a second. 0.99

00:13:50.000 I sent this email to one of our listeners at freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:13:54.000 She said, Loeffler and Purdue are rhinos.

00:13:56.000 First of all, that's not exactly right.

00:13:57.000 Purdue is actually a generally conservative senator.

00:13:59.000 I disagree with them in certain things I say, but here's the best answer to that, that we never made the argument.

00:14:04.000 Do you want Josh Hawley and Ted Cruz to be in the majority or the minority?

00:14:08.000 It's that simple.

00:14:09.000 Do you want the good guys to have majority power or minority power?

00:14:13.000 Because that actually swings.

00:14:14.000 And we were just unable to communicate that.

00:14:17.000 So now we lose Georgia and the tech company said, this is our chance.

00:14:22.000 And they're almost doing this like, Will, as if they're never going to, they think we're never going to get back into power, which is the scariest thing.

00:14:30.000 They almost are doing this with so much confidence that we are going to wipe you out and you're never going to rise again.

00:14:37.000 Yeah.

00:14:38.000 I mean, we, I hope they're wrong.

00:14:40.000 I think they're wrong.

00:14:41.000 I mean, there were positives that came out of November.

00:14:43.000 I think there's plenty to work of to rebuild with.

00:14:46.000 And it's not like, you know, Joe Biden's going to be 81.

00:14:50.000 Kamala Harris is not popular.

00:14:53.000 These are people who are beatable in any normal political environment.

00:14:57.000 So I think they're making a bad bet.

00:15:00.000 There also is the fact that the liberals have made no bones about the fact that they want antitrust investigations of these companies and antitrust prosecutions and to change antitrust law to punish them more.

00:15:11.000 I think we should be, we should, I don't know why we would want to stand in the way of that.

00:15:15.000 I mean, what if these companies don't think that's the same?

00:15:17.000 If they use that, though, well, I think they've been used, some of them, the activists, the smart ones, are using that as a threat to get the censorship they want.

00:15:25.000 Right.

00:15:25.000 That's true.

00:15:27.000 And I mean, that's, that's also, you know, what we could have done.

00:15:29.000 We could have been threatening much more aggressive things just get them to stop censoring or we could have put in place laws to protect ourselves.

00:15:35.000 I think, you know, in many ways, that's the big missed opportunity here.

00:15:38.000 We did have power at the right time if we had gotten, you know, if we had gotten our act together and realized what needed to be done.

00:15:44.000 Although it was difficult.

00:15:45.000 I mean, the censorship really ramped up after 2018 when we lost unified control of the government.

00:15:50.000 So I don't want to be too harsh on everybody, but that, you know, I've talked about before, like going forward, I think it's just, this has got to be like, if you're, you know, how Grover Norquist made it, if you're a Republican, you have to be for tax cuts.

00:16:01.000 You're not for tax hikes.

00:16:03.000 Like going forward, you have to be for protecting your social conservatives on social media.

00:16:07.000 And if you're not, like what, what use are you?

00:16:09.000 I mean, it's a very basic thing.

00:16:11.000 And how we're going to achieve that, I'm not totally sure.

00:16:14.000 I want to unpack that with you just from a pragmatic perspective, but I want to get to this parlor thing because it's super, it's super creepy.

00:16:23.000 And I don't use that word lightly.

00:16:25.000 And it's so, it's really important that people understand this.

00:16:28.000 So I know the founder of Partner, John.

00:16:29.000 I've known him for years.

00:16:30.000 I was one of the first parlor accounts.

00:16:32.000 In fact, Candace Owens and I were, I literally, my, people say, Charlie, what's your handle on parlor?

00:16:38.000 It's at Charlie.

00:16:39.000 Yeah, I'm at Will.

00:16:40.000 I was there early too.

00:16:41.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:16:42.000 So I just, because I said, hey, this thing's going to take off.

00:16:44.000 I want to be there.

00:16:46.000 And I like John.

00:16:47.000 I can never pronounce his last name, Mattsy, or Mates, Good Guy.

00:16:50.000 And I know some of the investors in Parlor.

00:16:53.000 And I've been cheering them along.

00:16:55.000 I've been posting periodically.

00:16:57.000 And I think they'd admit that at times their app can be a little buggy and they're still trying to figure it out and they're not as capitalized as they'd like to be.

00:17:04.000 And that's all fine.

00:17:05.000 You know, they're working on it.

00:17:06.000 And Dan Bongino has really helped drive a lot of traffic to it.

00:17:09.000 And God bless them for that.

00:17:11.000 But what's been the most interesting thing over the last 72 hours is that, remember, the libertarians told us, Will, well, just go create a competitor.

00:17:19.000 That's what Parlor is, right?

00:17:21.000 So they create a competitor.

00:17:22.000 But because of the current tech infrastructure, how do you get your competitor out there?

00:17:27.000 And this is where the libertarians have just been so wrong.

00:17:30.000 Oh, you put it on the Google App Store.

00:17:33.000 Okay.

00:17:33.000 You put it on the Apple App Store.

00:17:35.000 Okay.

00:17:35.000 Well, where am I supposed to host my app?

00:17:38.000 On AWS, Amazon Web Services.

00:17:40.000 And in a sequence of 72 hours, three companies, two of them have a market cap over a trillion dollars.

00:17:47.000 And the third has a market cap right around $800 billion decided to go one by one by one.

00:17:56.000 Actually, no, they're all over a trillion now.

00:17:58.000 I'm sorry.

00:17:58.000 I was thinking of Facebook to make it so parlor can basically cease to exist.

00:18:03.000 A competitor that's probably valued at most at $50 million at most, right?

00:18:09.000 And they're still figuring themselves out, $50 to $75 million.

00:18:11.000 Three multi-trillion dollar companies go, you can't exist.

00:18:17.000 Go from there, Will.

00:18:19.000 I mean, there's, it puts the lie to the build your own Twitter argument, right?

00:18:24.000 Everything we've been saying about how they're monopolies, well, they have a log, you know, they have an oligopoly.

00:18:28.000 You know, I looked up, I was asking, curious, okay, how much of the mobile operating system share do Google and Apple have?

00:18:34.000 Because it seems like a lot just intuitively.

00:18:36.000 The number is 99.8% in the United States.

00:18:40.000 You don't even know, you know what the third one is?

00:18:42.000 It's Samsung.

00:18:42.000 You've never heard of the Samsung store, but they actually have their own little OS that has like 0.1% of the American market, 99.8%.

00:18:51.000 And four years ago, 80%, even four years ago, 80% of social media consumption was on mobile.

00:18:57.000 So if you have a social media app that isn't on mobile, it's done already.

00:19:01.000 From conception, it won't be competitive.

00:19:04.000 It's doomed to obscurity.

00:19:06.000 And so if Google and Apple act in concert, they can make any social media app disappear and be not commercially viable.

00:19:15.000 There is no way entrepreneurship can solve that problem in the medium term.

00:19:20.000 There is no way building your own.

00:19:22.000 That's exactly right.

00:19:23.000 Yeah, there's no way that is, I mean, now that there's an antitrust issue, right?

00:19:27.000 If they're collecting, you know, if they're acting in concert in restraint of trade, there might actually be under current law, some antitrust companies.

00:19:34.000 I've said this all along that the discrimination route is never going to pan out well for us in the courts.

00:19:40.000 Go after how these companies are trying to stifle competition in the market.

00:19:44.000 There's lots of law around that.

00:19:45.000 Right.

00:19:46.000 Under current law, I would agree with you completely, right?

00:19:46.000 Yeah.

00:19:48.000 We don't have the law written now to win and discrimination, save for maybe in like some state courts where there's like- And we need to.

00:19:55.000 We need to pass those in the state legislatures quickly.

00:19:57.000 Right, right.

00:19:58.000 Like we need, we need to change the law as it goes as regards discrimination.

00:20:01.000 Under current law, antitrust is the best available alternative.

00:20:04.000 But even then, I mean, antitrust, there's a lot, you know, antitrust law has been, you know, largely due to the conservative movement been shaped in a way to be very favorable to the larger companies.

00:20:13.000 Because they used to be on team right.

00:20:15.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:20:16.000 Exactly.

00:20:17.000 And so the parlor thing, I know they're scrambling over there.

00:20:21.000 They might go to Rackspace.

00:20:22.000 And so just so everyone understands kind of what happens here.

00:20:24.000 So if you're going to build an app, you actually need servers to do this.

00:20:29.000 You need physical servers.

00:20:30.000 I know this is a hard thing for some people to understand.

00:20:32.000 They say it's all up in the cloud.

00:20:34.000 Like, no, no, no, the cloud's actually in some like rural facility in Utah.

00:20:40.000 Okay.

00:20:41.000 That's where your social media account is.

00:20:43.000 And so Amazon in the late 1900s, like nine times, 1990s, I should say, they were not a very valuable company, but Bezos bought something called merchant.com and they started, they wanted to actually create what is now called Shopify.

00:20:58.000 And they, in 2000, they slowly realized that most of the infrastructure, most of the infrastructure for the internet hasn't been built yet.

00:21:05.000 And that they just started buying up server space wildly.

00:21:09.000 And it really wasn't successful until 2013.

00:21:12.000 Now, what happened in 2013?

00:21:14.000 What happened in 2013 was the app explosion, right?

00:21:17.000 Uber, Snapchat, these super data-intensive apps started to come on and they needed places to be hosted.

00:21:24.000 I mean, way more intensive than just traditional websites, right?

00:21:27.000 And so, but Amazon was sitting there with this web service where they actually helped other companies grow in the early 2000s.

00:21:34.000 And now half of all exterior web services on servers is done through Amazon web servers.

00:21:41.000 And they are the gold standard.

00:21:43.000 There's Microsoft.

00:21:44.000 I mean, they call it a lude or something.

00:21:47.000 There's Google.

00:21:48.000 Facebook has their own servers, but the gold standard is Amazon, right?

00:21:51.000 And it's cheaper.

00:21:52.000 They're able to do it quicker, better, faster, cheaper.

00:21:55.000 And everyone celebrated this, myself included, a couple years ago.

00:21:58.000 Like, how awesome is this?

00:21:59.000 You can do your own thing.

00:22:01.000 And you were the first one to really warn about this alongside other people.

00:22:04.000 Like, well, hold on a second. 1.00

00:22:05.000 What if Amazon gets taken over by a bunch of French Revolution types and they say, cut off the server space? 1.00

00:22:10.000 Where do you go then? 1.00

00:22:11.000 And everyone kind of laughed at it.

00:22:12.000 And I didn't take it seriously.

00:22:14.000 And so Parler, the entrepreneurs are like, oh, let's go use Amazon Web Services, right?

00:22:18.000 They're never going to kick us off.

00:22:19.000 I mean, come on.

00:22:20.000 I don't even think it crossed their mind till recently.

00:22:23.000 And then they get the app out to the Google store and the apps, the Apple App Store.

00:22:28.000 And I'll be honest, Will, two weeks ago, I don't even think that getting dropped from Amazon Web Services was a threat.

00:22:33.000 I mean, this is, I've not heard of them do this for anyone.

00:22:36.000 Yeah, neither have I. Not for the web.

00:22:37.000 I think maybe they did it for Gab.

00:22:39.000 I don't know.

00:22:39.000 You know, I think maybe, maybe, right?

00:22:42.000 But Gab, I think, is now on Rackspace or something.

00:22:45.000 Yeah.

00:22:45.000 And I don't know.

00:22:46.000 Like, I mean, maybe we, I think everybody needed to take that red alert more seriously that like once if it can happen to them, that it will creep, right?

00:22:54.000 Like assume because, you know, people would always make, oh, well, that's a slippery slope.

00:22:58.000 They won't do that.

00:22:58.000 I mean, how slippery has that slope proven to be?

00:23:00.000 You know, we were.

00:23:01.000 It's not a logical fallacy.

00:23:03.000 Yeah.

00:23:03.000 No, that's a good point, right?

00:23:05.000 I always like, people always say that's a fallacy.

00:23:06.000 It's like, no, it's a prediction.

00:23:09.000 Predictions are not fallacies.

00:23:10.000 It's a predictive measure, actually.

00:23:13.000 We know where this is headed.

00:23:15.000 And so the issue now is parlor, which is supposed to be a competitor and was having massive amounts of traffic coming to it, might collapse at any moment because they don't have server space.

00:23:29.000 I think Amazon is granting them a couple of days to go find new servers.

00:23:32.000 It's not that simple.

00:23:34.000 The migration, the replication, no one really knows what's going to happen at this.

00:23:38.000 I've been talking to some programmers.

00:23:39.000 They're like, yeah, the whole thing could just like fall apart or just, you know, someone with 4,000 followers could just end up having 400,000 followers.

00:23:46.000 Like no way, the whole thing can get messed up in that kind of a migration, right?

00:23:51.000 And so that's not easy at all.

00:23:54.000 And so the question is then, what do we do about this?

00:23:57.000 The president has now been completely kicked off of all these platforms.

00:24:01.000 I'm starting to try to, I went on an investigative hunt, Will, in the last 24 hours of any entrepreneur that's trying to create any wacky thing to either create hardware or servers.

00:24:11.000 And quite honestly, I should have been doing this four years ago, but I was too busy, you know, building turning point.

00:24:15.000 But where were our VCs going out and doing this four or five years ago, right?

00:24:20.000 I mean, we just, we assumed it wasn't necessary.

00:24:22.000 People, it had never been to happen before.

00:24:25.000 You know, we assumed that they wouldn't discriminate this badly.

00:24:29.000 We were wrong. 0.52

00:24:30.000 Or, you know, I mean, I was, you know, I predicted some of these things.

00:24:33.000 I didn't predict all of them, right?

00:24:35.000 Like, you know, I thought, I never thought that Parler would get kicked off these, the Google and App Store.

00:24:39.000 I didn't, I didn't assume that.

00:24:40.000 That is unbelievable to me.

00:24:42.000 Right.

00:24:42.000 Like, and my analysis was always, I mean, I always saw an issue with Parler.

00:24:47.000 Like, once I started using it and the alternatives had some issues to them, one of the big issues I thought, especially with Gab was their incentive structures messed up with regards to the conservative movement writ large, because they do better when we are getting more censored, which is not ideal.

00:25:02.000 And I think Gab's leadership at one point was actually pushing to try and get people blocked on Twitter so that they could route over to, you know, router with Gab.

00:25:10.000 And I always thought it was more important.

00:25:12.000 Like we didn't want to fight to be segregated in our own like second-rate social media services.

00:25:16.000 I thought we should always fight to be where the debate is happening, where everyone is, and fight for our right to be a part of that.

00:25:23.000 But I still didn't predict, you know, like any, even the hint of competition from Parler and bam, they're just off of everything.

00:25:29.000 I didn't see that coming.

00:25:32.000 But it definitely means like.

00:25:33.000 Well, but what this does show me, Will, is that this and the Shopify thing is really, really scary too, is they're not going to stop.

00:25:40.000 And they've already, they already kind of showed us the payment processors, the banks.

00:25:45.000 That's the real one that's going to be very interesting.

00:25:47.000 The banks.

00:25:48.000 The banks are going to say you can't do business.

00:25:50.000 You can't hold lines of credit if you are associated with a certain ideological viewpoint.

00:25:55.000 That's coming.

00:25:56.000 Now, let's take a step back.

00:25:58.000 What is the justification, though, that Google and Apple are making to get rid of Parler?

00:26:03.000 Is it that there was legitimate death threats on their platform?

00:26:06.000 I'm just trying to understand it to build out their argument.

00:26:09.000 They're not.

00:26:09.000 It's either, I think they have moderation policies at Parlor about violence and incitement and unlawful content, right?

00:26:16.000 It's not a complete free-for-all there.

00:26:18.000 It's not Reddit.

00:26:18.000 Well, Reddit moderates, but it's not 8N.

00:26:21.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:26:21.000 And so then I think, I guess the argument then is, well, you're not doing enough to enforce your rules or they're not strict enough, right?

00:26:29.000 But I mean, you think about it, like, and they're, you know, everybody's pointed to like, look at Lynn Wood.

00:26:34.000 He's still on Parliament.

00:26:35.000 You know, he's still on Parlor or whatever, and he's saying these horrible things.

00:26:37.000 Lynn Wood was on Twitter a week ago saying crazy stuff then too.

00:26:41.000 I mean, there's a came on so he could affect the Georgia runoff.

00:26:45.000 Right.

00:26:45.000 Yeah.

00:26:45.000 Like I think I tweeted something along the lines of, you know, he was he was kept on the platform just long enough to lose us the Senate seats.

00:26:51.000 Yeah, to be helpful and then get him off.

00:26:53.000 Right.

00:26:54.000 But there's a clear double standard in the way that they're treating these companies, right?

00:26:57.000 Twitter and Facebook and YouTube have all sorts of horrible content.

00:27:00.000 They do work to try and eliminate it, but they have all this horrible content.

00:27:04.000 I mean, I guess, and all of a sudden to just unilaterally decide out of nowhere, well, Parler's efforts are not good enough.

00:27:09.000 You have 24 hours to fix them.

00:27:11.000 I mean, it's arbitrary.

00:27:13.000 Yeah.

00:27:13.000 On a weekend, right?

00:27:14.000 On a Friday and like in the middle of the biggest traffic spike they've ever had.

00:27:19.000 I mean, like if they're actually, if they were making this, you know, request of them in good faith, they would be a little more patient than just a unilaterally 30 days or something, right?

00:27:27.000 Or something like that.

00:27:28.000 Yeah, but it's not a good faith.

00:27:30.000 It's an effort to like quiet the liberal activists in their own companies, get rid of a competitor.

00:27:35.000 Like it's not, it's not done in good faith.

00:27:37.000 Yeah.

00:27:38.000 But like what here's here's where I want to think strategically with you, though, Will, is that absent, you know, a mass like all of us just disappearing, there's still 65, 70 million of us.

00:27:49.000 And you can't go on parlor.

00:27:52.000 The president missing on Twitter is really something that people are going to are noticing and talking about.

00:27:59.000 And stunningly, people like Sam Harris are supporting it.

00:28:03.000 I just, I'm just blown away by this.

00:28:05.000 But what is the strategic plan?

00:28:08.000 Is it kind of we need to now all of a sudden build our own hardware?

00:28:11.000 We need to now build our own server space.

00:28:15.000 What is the strategic plan?

00:28:16.000 I'm talking more just on the non-political side.

00:28:19.000 You know, we can get to the political side in a second.

00:28:20.000 I'm talking about are we going to be able to exist in a free society?

00:28:25.000 Well, I mean, I think, you know, those alternative plans are just all pretty abysmal.

00:28:33.000 I mean, the amount of work it took to build up to what Amazon has, as you're describing, is a 20-year project.

00:28:39.000 And losing money for 15 of it.

00:28:41.000 Right.

00:28:41.000 Like, I mean, these and billions and billions and billions of dollars.

00:28:45.000 And to come up with a completely adversarial set of corporations while fighting against these massive Goliath monopolies that already are in power.

00:28:54.000 And by the way, we'll have the assistance of the federal government, which will be doing their bidding too, probably, especially to squash the like conservative alternatives to everything.

00:29:05.000 I mean, we can't like, you know, if these companies were able to do that just by snapping their fingers, what are they able to do to any fledgling competitors with the assistance of the federal government?

00:29:15.000 And here's an idea I had.

00:29:16.000 It's like a state like South Dakota, you know, floats a 10-year note to basically interest-free build servers if you migrate your business to it.

00:29:25.000 I'm not kidding.

00:29:26.000 That's the type of stuff we need.

00:29:27.000 We need to start thinking super creatively, right?

00:29:30.000 I mean, yeah, sure.

00:29:32.000 I mean, we should.

00:29:33.000 Or Texas, Texas floats a multi-billion dollar note and is like, you know, this, it's like TIFF money, right?

00:29:41.000 They'll get the money back.

00:29:42.000 And over a decade, they're going to say, we're going to have server space and you can rent it from us, but we're going to float the front of it.

00:29:48.000 Like we're going to front the cost and it's going to be, it's going to be the state owned by the state of Texas for free.

00:29:55.000 You know, whatever you want to do with it, we're just not going to kick you off.

00:29:58.000 Right.

00:29:58.000 Yeah.

00:29:59.000 And this sounds wacky, but like, what else?

00:30:01.000 What other, I mean, I'm writing a piece for human events right now.

00:30:04.000 And obviously, it's a distress signal to Elon Musk.

00:30:08.000 I'm like, dude, no, it's, you know, that's the piece.

00:30:11.000 It's an SOS call.

00:30:12.000 I don't know.

00:30:13.000 I don't know how liquid he is.

00:30:14.000 I mean, he's, he's, we'll see if he wants to do it.

00:30:16.000 I think there's plenty of people that will buy Tesla stock right now.

00:30:19.000 That's true.

00:30:20.000 That's true.

00:30:21.000 Tesla's doing good.

00:30:22.000 That's right.

00:30:22.000 I think the liquidity could magically appear is the point I'm saying.

00:30:25.000 Yeah.

00:30:26.000 I mean, like, you think about like, it's a big thing to decide you want to be adversarial.

00:30:31.000 You know, one of the entrepreneurs wants to be explicitly adversarial to the existing tech companies plus the existing and plus the federal government.

00:30:37.000 Teal and Elon could do it.

00:30:39.000 They could.

00:30:40.000 I mean, but oof, it would be, it's really challenging.

00:30:43.000 But I think, yeah, I mean, we should, you know, at the state level, they should, that should be done.

00:30:47.000 We should also be thinking about local level legislation and trying to enforce like consumer protection legislation.

00:30:54.000 You know, I mean, there's, there's arguments to be made that, you know, the representations made by Twitter and Facebook to users were fraudulent and that you could sue them under consumer fraud statutes.

00:31:04.000 I don't know.

00:31:05.000 State law is trying to make it so their users, state users have a right to be on these platforms.

00:31:09.000 They probably conflict with 230, but you got to try it.

00:31:14.000 I mean, it's not, we're not in a great position.

00:31:16.000 And like, I still, you know, I ultimately think, you know, the solution to collective, mass collective private discrimination is ultimately federal law making that discrimination illegal.

00:31:29.000 I still think that's, you know, that, you know, that's the end goal that puts an end to this nonsense.

00:31:36.000 And I hope the private efforts work, but I think that like, you know, I'm going to spend my time.

00:31:41.000 I'm not going to spend my time in the private efforts.

00:31:42.000 I'm not up to it.

00:31:43.000 But I'm saying that we have to at least talk about them and ask for them.

00:31:47.000 Sure.

00:31:47.000 Because absent the private efforts, in my opinion, we're going to keep on coming up against this problem, which is, are you in power?

00:31:53.000 And if not, you can't communicate to people.

00:31:55.000 Yeah, that's true.

00:31:57.000 That's true.

00:31:58.000 It's a very scary thing.

00:32:01.000 And, you know, that like, I mean, hopefully, and hopefully these 20-year projects work.

00:32:06.000 I think, I mean, I'm all for starting them up and doing what people think is necessary to just basically have, you know, states subsidize the creation of a competing infrastructure for their users.

00:32:17.000 I never thought I'd say that.

00:32:19.000 Yeah.

00:32:21.000 Well, I mean, what else are you going to do?

00:32:22.000 I mean, because it's not just a problem here, too.

00:32:24.000 I don't know if you follow Balaji Sernavasan on Twitter, who is brilliant.

00:32:28.000 You totally should.

00:32:29.000 But he was making the point about how if you're a foreign government and you see that Twitter took off Donald Trump, why do you think Twitter wouldn't take off your leader?

00:32:37.000 And then can you, as that government, trust, like let yourself be held hostage by an American corporation social media apparatus?

00:32:47.000 So maybe the Indian government decides, you know, we need our own national social media monopoly platforms, right?

00:32:53.000 That we have control of, that our people are never going to be kicked off of.

00:32:57.000 That also is a potential threat to Twitter and Facebook and might get them to change their ways in the sense of, you know, because if the Indian government say decides to say, not only is this going to happen, but we also mandate that every single mobile phone sold in India comes pre-installed with the India government social media apps.

00:33:13.000 Which they could do.

00:33:13.000 Which they could do, right?

00:33:14.000 That's a billion users or half a 500 million or whatever.

00:33:18.000 Like that.

00:33:19.000 Yeah, like that.

00:33:20.000 Not a lot of purchasing power, but yeah.

00:33:22.000 Right.

00:33:23.000 Even so.

00:33:23.000 But I mean, from their perspective, that's a lot of, that's a user base that Twitter or Facebook would want on their platform.

00:33:29.000 And Poland did something interesting.

00:33:31.000 I think you might have reported on this, but I saw it today.

00:33:33.000 They put in place a law that's a law that I've been advocating for a while.

00:33:36.000 The one that's if you have lawful speech banned on your account, you can walk into a court, get an injunction and get fees.

00:33:42.000 Are you serious?

00:33:43.000 Yeah, they passed.

00:33:44.000 They're going to pass.

00:33:45.000 They're pushing a law like that.

00:33:46.000 I don't know if they passed it, but I was actually, I was joking.

00:33:49.000 I was talking with, I said on Twitter, I was like, they have to be following my account because this is literally what I said six months ago.

00:33:54.000 And I had some Polish MP come up to me.

00:33:55.000 He's like, yeah, we follow your account.

00:33:57.000 That's so cool.

00:33:58.000 Yeah, I'm stoked.

00:33:59.000 Yeah, it's kind of funny to see some of these Eastern European countries all of a sudden be the flagships for freedom.

00:34:05.000 It's just.

00:34:06.000 Who would have thought?

00:34:07.000 Ridiculously ironic.

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00:35:14.000 So let's talk strategically here, Will, legislatively and politically.

00:35:18.000 Somebody called me last night and they someone I really trust.

00:35:21.000 They said, well, Charlie, so where do we go from here?

00:35:24.000 I say, well, we now have to take, in some ways, a completely defensive posture legislatively.

00:35:30.000 And I say, here's what success looks like in two years legislatively.

00:35:34.000 No new states added to the United States of America.

00:35:38.000 And there's a great counter argument I have that I'll share with you in a second.

00:35:41.000 The Electoral College is not abolished.

00:35:43.000 H.R. 1 is not passed, which is universal mail and voting.

00:35:48.000 And there's one other one that I had that I can never remember that they want to do.

00:35:53.000 I'll think of it in a sec.

00:35:54.000 There's the Electoral College, no new states.

00:35:56.000 Oh, court packing, of course.

00:35:58.000 And no additional seats to the United States Supreme Court.

00:36:02.000 I think that we have to now focus on them not changing the infrastructure of actually how our country operates so we can never win again.

00:36:10.000 What do you think?

00:36:11.000 I think that's exactly right.

00:36:12.000 It's the reason I thought it was so important to win the Senate races.

00:36:16.000 You know, I read the book that I read that scared me.

00:36:19.000 I read it back in, I think, two years ago, was It's Time to Fight Dirty by some Democrat political scientists.

00:36:24.000 And he just lays out all these ideas.

00:36:26.000 That's where all this stuff comes from.

00:36:28.000 Like add, you know, basically restructure the federal government and our election system so that to massively advantage Democrats.

00:36:35.000 And I think that's got to be the legislative goal.

00:36:38.000 Like keep Joe Manchin up to his word when he said he's not going to do any of that stuff.

00:36:43.000 You know, cinema, John Tester, like do whatever you think.

00:36:47.000 Mark Kelly, it's going to be a real challenge because it's in their party's incentive to do these things at the end of the day.

00:36:53.000 Like there's a, there, and their electoral incentive to do these things.

00:36:56.000 So I worry very strongly about that.

00:37:01.000 And I think you're right that that's that's the near-term legislative goal, right?

00:37:04.000 The near-term legislative goal is don't let them make our job harder in terms of winning elections.

00:37:08.000 Well, and out of that whole list, the one that is going to be the one that I think that they're going to push is the addition of states.

00:37:16.000 And then they're going to add D.C. as a state as one of their top priorities.

00:37:20.000 And a counter argument should be, well, then why don't why do you need your own statehood?

00:37:24.000 Why can't you just break apart into Delaware, Maryland, and Virginia statehood?

00:37:31.000 And that's a counter argument they can never answer.

00:37:33.000 And of course, liberal states will gain a little population and maybe a congressman, but it won't add new senators.

00:37:40.000 Right.

00:37:40.000 Like maybe the counter argument should be make the federal district smaller and include just the mall and the seat of government.

00:37:46.000 That's exactly right.

00:37:47.000 Yes. 1.00

00:37:47.000 And then let the other parts, you know, have Virginia take over the other parts or something. 1.00

00:37:51.000 Right. 1.00

00:37:51.000 Or Maryland. 1.00

00:37:52.000 Probably make Maryland's probably a little easier because Virginia is sort of across the river.

00:37:56.000 But, you know, if that's all, if we get to that place, right, where they're like, well, you have all this representation without, you know, all this taxation without representation.

00:38:05.000 Like, hold on.

00:38:06.000 Then why is it you want your own statehood?

00:38:09.000 Like, what is the identity exactly of Washington, D.C.?

00:38:12.000 Something, by the way, the founders rejected completely in the Federalist Papers, explicitly.

00:38:17.000 Right.

00:38:17.000 And you can make a pretty compelling argument that it's unconstitutional, actually, to make D.C. a state that, like without a constitutional amendment, because it lays out the federal district there.

00:38:26.000 And I mean, there are really good reasons to have a federal district.

00:38:29.000 Like, think about when, you know, Ramp Hall and other senators were walking home from a White House event and were attacked.

00:38:36.000 The idea is that when a state government might be obnoxious or antagonistic towards the federal government, so it should have its own place that it runs.

00:38:44.000 If we're talking about what ideal policy is, it's to take away D.C. home rule and take away the power of Muriel Bowser and return it to Congress.

00:38:51.000 That's what should be done.

00:38:53.000 Yes.

00:38:54.000 So the other one is packing the courts.

00:38:56.000 Do you think realistically they'll be able to do that?

00:38:59.000 No, I don't think so.

00:39:00.000 I don't think Joe Manchin will be down with that.

00:39:02.000 And I think that needs more than, I think they'd need a bigger majority to try and push that through.

00:39:07.000 I think you'd see some of the institutionalists in the Senate pushback on that.

00:39:12.000 So I think we're going to be okay.

00:39:14.000 But I never wanted to be in a position where that was even a possibility.

00:39:17.000 Yeah.

00:39:19.000 And then the other one is HR1, packing universal mail and voting, which is going to be one of their big ones.

00:39:25.000 That's going to be really hard.

00:39:27.000 I think they might, I mean, we would have to filibuster that, right?

00:39:30.000 We'd have to filibuster.

00:39:31.000 And that should be just general, the general idea, like we are not going to tolerate any federal meddling, oddly enough, any federal meddling in state elections, especially to liberalize mail-in voting, which is so vulnerable to fraud.

00:39:45.000 And I mean, we have to fight hard on that, push Manchin not to be willing to get rid of the filibuster for that.

00:39:50.000 Like, you know, I think we have to really be smart and pick our spots, do a little better than the Democrats did in how they use the filibuster.

00:39:57.000 Like, we should basically, the filibuster needs to be for the structural changes to the government, right?

00:40:03.000 Like, that's what we need to preserve it for.

00:40:05.000 That's what we need to fight on.

00:40:06.000 Like, we're going to be a little more, I mean, if we're fighting on every single issue, tooth and nail, the filibuster, they'll just eliminate it.

00:40:12.000 And then we're screwed forever.

00:40:14.000 So we really have to be careful with when we use that.

00:40:16.000 Well, I don't know if Manchin will vote to eliminate that.

00:40:18.000 I'm not convinced of that.

00:40:20.000 Neither am I.

00:40:21.000 But I worry, you know, I worry about what happens if like we just, I could see a world in which senators are super obstructionist, right?

00:40:29.000 And wanting to use the filibuster for every legislative proposal.

00:40:32.000 And every cabinet official.

00:40:34.000 And every cabinet official.

00:40:35.000 And then that'll just tick them off.

00:40:37.000 That'll just tick them off.

00:40:38.000 I think we, because we have to realize like what the, you know, we didn't use our power particularly well in terms of trying to set the table for ourselves.

00:40:47.000 I mean, if we really tick them off, because, you know, the filibuster has been weakened enormously, right?

00:40:52.000 No longer for Supreme Court justices, no longer for cabinet appointees, no longer for appellate court judges.

00:41:00.000 I feel like we're really close to losing it for the legislative branch.

00:41:04.000 And so we have to be careful with how we use it.

00:41:07.000 Yeah.

00:41:07.000 I mean, and that's the Democrats want to abolish the filibuster immediately and get to 50 on all of their pet projects.

00:41:14.000 Right.

00:41:14.000 That's what they want to do.

00:41:15.000 They have the slightest of slight majorities and they still, they don't care.

00:41:18.000 They want to use that to impose their will on us.

00:41:20.000 So in closing, Will, this week has been a horror show.

00:41:23.000 What gives you hope?

00:41:25.000 What gives me hope?

00:41:27.000 I think in general, there's still a lot of intelligent, talented, passionate Trump people on the conservative side of the aisle.

00:41:36.000 I think we now know what needs to be done.

00:41:41.000 It's no longer a debate anymore about what to do that we need to regulate big tech.

00:41:45.000 I mean, I felt the frustrating thing was having to persuade my fellow conservatives.

00:41:48.000 It's like, these people need to be regulated.

00:41:51.000 They're going to destroy us otherwise.

00:41:53.000 And I think, yeah, we're already there.

00:41:56.000 People agree.

00:41:58.000 And so I think, you know, and ultimately, I, you know, I don't think the Democrats are as strong as they want to be.

00:42:04.000 I mean, with a 77-year-old president who will be 81 as an incumbent and a very unpopular vice president, I think, you know, if we learn the lessons of the Trump era, we can come back in four years and take the federal government back and do the right thing for our, you know, for the conservative base.

00:42:21.000 Yeah, I have hope in the sense that the Democrats almost always overshoot, almost always by default.

00:42:28.000 And also there's 74 million of us.

00:42:30.000 That gives me hope.

00:42:32.000 And some will be intimidated and some will get despondent.

00:42:34.000 But I also think some people are, you know, I'm talking about the true classical liberals are going to be very scared of what these people want to do to our country.

00:42:44.000 Agreed.

00:42:45.000 And now it's time to build new stuff.

00:42:46.000 Humanevents.com.

00:42:48.000 Will, we have to do it again soon.

00:42:50.000 Thank you.

00:42:50.000 Absolutely.

00:42:51.000 For sure.

00:42:51.000 Talk to you soon.

00:42:52.000 Thanks.

00:42:53.000 Bye.

00:42:56.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:42:58.000 Email us your questions, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:43:01.000 If you want to support us, go to charliekirk.com slash support.

00:43:06.000 And as always, I encourage you to get involved with Turning Point USA, where we play offense with a sense of urgency to win America's Culture War at tpusa.com.

00:43:15.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:43:17.000 God bless.

The Charlie Kirk Show - January 11, 2021

How Conservatives Regroup and Rebuild with Will Chamberlain

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