On this episode of the Charlie Kirk Show, author Molly Hemingway joins us to talk about her new book, Rigged: How Big Tech, Big Media, and Big Politics seized our elections. She talks about how the election was rigged, and why we need to know what happened.
00:00:10.000It explains the 2020 election better than anything I've seen published.
00:00:14.000She talks about some themes that we've talked about in great detail on this program, including Zuckerberg's money, consent decrees, what happened in Georgia.
00:00:23.000She's very informative and smart and fair, and she loves her country.
00:00:29.000And so I think you're going to really enjoy this podcast.
00:00:31.000It's one of my favorites we've done in quite some time, especially if you are trying to get to the bottom of what happened in the 2020 election.
00:01:25.000Annette from Moorhead City, North Dakota.
00:01:28.000Before I say thank you to a couple more people, you guys are getting behind us, allowing us to hire more staff, allowing us to expand, strengthen our resolve.
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00:02:55.000We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
00:04:12.000That's actually partly why I wrote the book.
00:04:15.000I was very frustrated by the idiotic way that people were talking about the election.
00:04:20.000You weren't allowed to ask any questions.
00:04:22.000And even before the election, I had felt that the media and tech environments were so corrupted and so brazen in their limiting of information that they were meddling with our election.
00:04:35.000And that's actually something that international observers will say that an election can't be deemed to be free or fair if you're in a propaganda or censorship environment.
00:04:46.000I mean, we have big tech controlling so much of what we're allowed to talk about, what we're allowed to share, what we're allowed to think.
00:04:52.000And I thought that was a really important part of the story.
00:04:58.000But then, of course, people were also talking about all these changes to election law and how those changes had degraded the integrity of the election.
00:05:07.000And the fact that nobody else wanted to look into that, I thought, well, I have to research this.
00:05:19.000Tea, some of it, not all of it, because we want people to go buy the book and find it themselves, but kind of walk through some of the things that you found in researching this, because this is one of the most under-researched topics in the history of news.
00:05:30.000You have the entire news media just not just uninterested, but they're invested in making sure you don't talk about it.
00:05:38.000So one of the things that I think is very interesting is that the same Democratic operative who ran the Russia lie, that was the lie that Donald Trump stole the 2016 election by colluding with Russia.
00:06:21.000He's also the guy who ran the Democratic operation to change all voting laws leading up to the 2020 election.
00:06:29.000And that meant different things in different states.
00:06:30.000So that could be about watering down the integrity of mail-in balloting.
00:06:35.000That could be expanding the period of time in which you vote so that you're not really sure how many people voted or when they have to get their ballots in by.
00:06:43.000And he has this array of different groups that he works with, whether they're Democratic operatives or nonprofit, nonpartisan groups that are actually just kind of arms of the Democratic Party and he would have them file lawsuits.
00:06:56.000And so it was just this like wide-ranging operation to weaken the integrity of the election system.
00:07:02.000And because of COVID, you know, this is something that he'd been wanting to do for decades, but because of COVID, suddenly all these judges or other people were more amenable to it.
00:07:12.000And what's important to also keep in mind about this part of it is that sometimes these changes were done legally and sometimes they were not done legally.
00:07:19.000So you're supposed to make all changes like this go through the state legislature according to the Constitution and according to many state constitutions, but frequently they were done through other means.
00:07:28.000Like you would sue a friendly Secretary of State and then that Secretary of State would settle and agree to whatever your demands were.
00:07:36.000And you could just like with the with the signature of a pen, change election laws in the middle of the game in a way that was not designed to bolster confidence in the result.
00:07:48.000He was the architect behind a lot of this.
00:07:50.000And so I guess one question I have for you is how much of this was colluded and how much of was this just everyone hated Trump, like big tech in their corner, financiers in another corner.
00:08:01.000Was there kind of, and there actually is an article from Time magazine shows there was a central planning apparatus, but did you find in your reporting there was kind of a mission control?
00:08:10.000Was there a war room that was orchestrating this?
00:08:13.000Yeah, that was actually just like you mentioned, already revealed in a Time magazine article that was written by Molly Ball, who's a reporter who has very good ties with Democrats.
00:08:23.000She wrote the fawning biography of Nancy Pelosi, and she's sort of rewarded with inside information from Democrats who know that she will put it out there in the nicest, kindest way.
00:08:34.000And so she already wrote that this was a highly coordinated operation at the highest levels, but it was basically the establishment all got together and it was all hands on deck.
00:08:43.000We have to do whatever it takes to prevent Donald Trump from getting reelected.
00:08:48.000And what's interesting about this is they did do whatever it took.
00:08:51.000And it still came down to like 43,000 votes in three states that it would have, that would have changed it and made it a tie in the Electoral College.
00:08:59.000It was so close that they came to failing.
00:09:01.000And that was by doing everything from controlling when and where riots occurred to controlling algorithms by Facebook and Google and all the big tech companies that tried to censor and deplatform voices that challenge their liberal orthodoxy to actually,
00:09:22.000which we haven't even talked about, Mark Zuckerberg, who is one of the world's wealthiest and most powerful men, financing the private takeover of government election offices and the media colluding with this to suppress stories that were that were bad for Biden, the media running Joe Biden's campaign.
00:09:42.000It was the media who ran his campaign.
00:09:45.000They invented stories about Donald Trump, such as the fake story that Russia was paying bounties to kill U.S. soldiers or the lie that Donald Trump had disparaged soldiers at Ayn Marn or the dead Marines and others buried at Ayn Marn in France.
00:10:04.000Like they just made up stories and then they took real stories, like the stories about the Biden family business and how corrupt it is, and they just suppressed and buried them.
00:10:12.000But yeah, it was all coordinated and they're they're kind of open and honest about it because they wanted to brag about it.
00:10:17.000Yeah, and that article for Time magazine was stunning.
00:10:20.000And I think they just kind of wanted to take a victory lap and say, hey, look how smart we were.
00:10:24.000We had Zoom calls with labor and with activist groups.
00:10:28.000And it literally says in the article, I'm paraphrasing, but it says, yeah, if we would have not got what we want, we would have been in the streets the next day.
00:10:36.000And that one framing in that article was incredible.
00:10:40.000Charlie, that was the part that I found most interesting.
00:10:42.000I actually kind of already knew because I was already researching some of this that there had been this level of organization, but I thought it was all like what we're talking about, Mark Elias and funding and, you know, the kind of things that you expect political operatives to do.
00:10:56.000When they admitted that they had the power to get people to riot or not riot, I was like, oh, so the summer of violence was all part of this as well.
00:11:06.000Like that was a really smart strategy.
00:11:08.000And I actually put a chapter of it in Rigged about the summer of violence where there was this lengthy insurrection against, you know, there was an attack on the White House.
00:11:19.000This is back when attacking federal buildings and disrupting government was great, you know, and you had Kamala Harris like asking people to bail out rioters.
00:11:27.000They attacked a federal courthouse for months on end, which, you know, again, why we would care about one article, Article I branch, but not Article II or Article III branches that are under attack, I don't understand.
00:12:05.000So they wanted to heighten race problems so that they could maybe keep that stranglehold on the black vote that the left has been able to have for decades.
00:12:14.000They also just wanted unrest because it was kind of this difficult position for President Trump to be in.
00:12:20.000He, in my opinion, should have done much more to quell the riots.
00:12:23.000But when he did restore order right in front of the White House, not only did the media and the Democrats lose their ever-living minds, so did members of his own cabinet.
00:12:35.000And so did Republican senators like Ben Sass and Mitt Romney.
00:12:41.000And so he was working with very little help.
00:12:45.000And I'm not excusing it because I still think it was his responsibility to restore order and provide leadership there.
00:12:51.000But it was a brilliant strategy because he was not keeping things in order.
00:12:55.000And he also was boxed in and prevented from keeping things in order.
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00:14:31.000Yeah, Floyda Palooza that summer was completely orchestrated, which is someone who kind of deals in the activist space and knows what it takes to get people fired up about something, just how blunt they are.
00:15:22.000Yeah, you wrote here about how the change in the election laws themselves had a profound difference in actually the outcome.
00:15:31.000And so talk a little bit about this because here's one of my complaints about how people talk about the election, which you've done a phenomenal job of doing the opposite, which is people get so focused on a certain thing, like machines or routers.
00:16:27.000Like a huge percentage of the population is constantly moving.
00:16:30.000You might have had yourself like 18 different addresses and you register to vote at one and then you move to the next, but you're still on the old list.
00:16:36.000And so states are supposed to clean up their lists with some regularity.
00:16:40.000And Wisconsin had a quarter of a million voter registrations that they were supposed to remove from their list, but they didn't.
00:16:47.000They actually lost a court battle about whether to do it or not, but they still didn't.
00:16:53.000And the clerks of the two most Democratic counties in the state say, we have this special provision in Wisconsin where you can register to vote without showing an ID.
00:17:05.000So usually you have to show an ID, but if you say you're indefinitely confined, then you don't have to show an ID.
00:17:11.000So they tell people to do it because of COVID.
00:17:13.000And I think they get like another quarter of a million people registering to vote without requiring them, without a requirement for showing ID.
00:17:20.000Some of them may have shown ID, but they're not required to.
00:17:23.000Just have like messy lists happening everywhere.
00:17:26.000Then the Wisconsin governor tries to postpone the election.
00:17:29.000It's a huge issue because this isn't just a primary battle.
00:17:32.000It's actually a general election for them.
00:17:37.000And the New York Times writes up that what the Democrats really wanted this to be was like a test case for mail-in balloting because mail-in balloting is their strategy for the 20 for the general 2020 election.
00:17:46.000And they're pretty pleased with how it went and how they can manipulate the vote and get out the vote, you know, get out more votes using the mail-in balloting.
00:17:54.000And it's also when Republicans and Democrats realize that there is a partisan divide in whether or not people will choose to do mail-in balloting.
00:18:03.000And Democrats have trust and confidence in the mail-in balloting process.
00:18:13.000In some cases, like the RNC is polling people in different states.
00:18:17.000It was like 80% of Georgians did not want to do mail-in balloting.
00:18:22.000And so mail-in balloting becomes the Democratic strategy.
00:18:26.000And this is important because of how it relates to what Mark Zuckerberg starts doing a couple months later, which is funding the private takeover of government election offices to massively expand mail-in balloting capabilities.
00:18:41.000That's important because it has such a partisan effect.
00:18:45.000He didn't just target his funding in a partisan manner, meaning he gave a lot of money to per capita to blue counties in swing states in order to achieve an outcome of actually swinging those states and he and he succeeded.
00:18:58.000It's also just that mail-in balloting itself, like people left to their own devices, Republicans tend to vote in person on election day, maybe early.
00:19:07.000Democrats are like, yeah, I have total confidence that every person involved in this like shady mail-in balloting process is going to treat my ballot with respect.
00:19:22.000And so talk, that's an important point because this kind of goes back to the central planning war room aspect of it, because Zuckerberg always denied that this was trying to have some sort of Democrat output.
00:19:34.000This was all about trying to expand, you know, expand accessibility and it was about safety.
00:19:40.000And we did an entire podcast on this where you just look at Georgia, nine out of 10, 25 out of 26 of the cities and counties where the money went to, the Federalists wrote this story and broke it.
00:19:51.000And Phil Klein's been talking about this for a while, but we went through the entire Federalist piece kind of every paragraph by paragraph.
00:19:57.000Phenomenal piece that shows that this was a massive partisan takeover.
00:20:01.000But Molly, can you talk about how this was not just running ads?
00:20:37.000These are the offices that handle voter registration, voting, ballot design, ballot counting, all of these, ballot harvesting, drop boxes.
00:20:47.000And so by embedding into these offices in key blue cities, they were able to run the Democratic get out the vote operation from the government.
00:20:58.000And that's what's so, you know, this is, this is like the one place that you're not supposed to have partisan politics engaged in.
00:21:04.000We have the, we have the government handle elections precisely so that partisan partisans won't be able to manipulate the process.
00:21:11.000And this is something that was like long, hard fought for in U.S. history.
00:21:16.000And it would be like the New England Patriots hiring and training and paying the officiants at a game that they are playing against another team.
00:21:28.000It's not, you know, doesn't necessarily mean that they're corrupt, but it certainly would not give you confidence in the results.
00:21:34.000Yeah, but that I actually like the Patriots.
00:21:36.000We have a lot of people that hate the Patriots.
00:22:30.000I mean, they did give money to Republicans, but at such a small level relative to what they were giving, you know, Philadelphia would literally get $10 million and a Republican county would literally get 5,000.
00:22:43.000But they said we didn't even know it was possible to take over our government election offices until it happened.
00:22:49.000And so not only do people have to make sure that it doesn't, that that doesn't happen going forward, I think they need to be aware that Democrats are pretty entrepreneurial and savvy about understanding loopholes and exploits and make sure they're protecting what the plan is for the next election as well.
00:23:06.000Well, and I will say, though, that every time Republicans try to be entrepreneurial, they get slammed by investigations and subpoenas.
00:23:15.000And I don't want to get into much detail, but anytime I've been aware of groups that are like, yeah, this is what we'll do because there might be an opening here.
00:23:24.000Immediately Washington Post comes or New York Times and it becomes, you know what I mean?
00:24:22.000And it gets to the point where the Trump campaign is like, we can't even pursue this because we're getting destroyed.
00:24:29.000And to have both the media and the supposed law enforcement people both colluding to prevent you from being able to detect fraud is a huge problem.
00:24:39.000And it keeps on being a huge problem in Pennsylvania.
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00:25:44.000So, Molly, one of my biggest issues is with Republicans.
00:25:48.000And you kind of touched on this and I want to really focus on this because some of this was preventable and some of it was not.
00:25:55.000And you can kind of, part of the part, it could have been preventable to restrain big tech years ago, but let's just say starting in January on January 1st, 2020 from Election Day, there was a lot of this could have been prevented.
00:26:09.000And I met with the president in the summer of 2020 in the White House, and it was kind of during all of this question of Trump was tweeting about mail and ballots.
00:26:17.000And I was there when he was getting calls from Republican governors, including Brian Kemp, saying, you've got to stop attacking mail-in ballots.
00:26:28.000And not once did we get a special session from the Georgia state legislature or the Arizona legislature saying, hey, let's have a hearing and just kind of know what we're about to get into.
00:26:37.000You know, we're expanding mail and balloting.
00:26:42.000Why were Republicans caught so flat-footed?
00:26:44.000Were they vacationing in the summer of 2020.
00:26:46.000I mean, they have the constitutional authority to oversee the administration of these elections, and they just allowed unelected tech oligarchs just to purchase the election.
00:26:55.000It was almost like they were all numb to what was happening.
00:26:59.000And you see this repeated in states across the country.
00:27:01.000I do want to say that there were that people should know that, in fact, a lot of this was fought.
00:27:07.000And it was fought by the Trump campaign and it was fought by the RNC.
00:27:11.000And frequently they were fighting. together against some of these changes and they had a ton of successes.
00:27:18.000In fact, sometimes I wonder if all of those fake polls that said Biden was going to win by like 20 points, you know, when that you would hear it throughout the campaign, if they weren't designed to get people comfortable with the idea that such a thing could happen, because that's how much manipulation of the process was actually going on.
00:27:38.000The RNC and the Trump campaign both did take it seriously.
00:27:42.000There's no question they didn't do enough.
00:27:45.000There's no question that state legislatures didn't do enough.
00:27:47.000In fact, in an infuriating way, they didn't do enough.
00:27:50.000But then you also had situations where state legislatures weren't approving these changes and they would be brought in through this sue and settle approach.
00:27:59.000And then courts that should have stopped it either just decided not to do anything or that too close to the election or there's nothing we can do.
00:28:07.000You see this repeated at the Pennsylvania Supreme Court, the Wisconsin Supreme Court, all sorts of different, you know, in federal courts where courts don't like to get involved in elections and you can understand why, but by failing to bring integrity to the process and a clear understanding of the rules, they actually contributed to the disaster of people not having confidence in the results.
00:28:27.000So sometimes backing away from, you know, the democratic process can actually lead to a greater disillusion of trust.
00:28:35.000And you actually see the Supreme Court justices, Kavanaugh, Alito, and Thomas all say that, that failure to have done due diligence on some of these things.
00:28:47.000You know, they would, a case would come up and they'd say, well, we don't, it's too soon to rule on it.
00:28:53.000And then once the election had happened, they'd say, well, it's moot because the election is over.
00:28:57.000You know, sometimes you actually just have to take up a case, let the chips fall where they may.
00:29:02.000And, you know, I actually think a lot of these cases might not have actually gone in the Trump campaign's favor, but still having resolution would have been more ideal.
00:29:11.000Well, and the opposition, they had the will and they saw the opening with the Fauci virus to change the way that we do elections forever.
00:29:20.000So, Charlie, did you know about the consent decree that I was going to ask you about?
00:29:32.000Well, I actually, I was going to ask about a different consent decision.
00:29:35.000The RNC one that disallowed them from doing poll watching, right?
00:29:38.000And let me just quickly talk about that one, which is they agreed to a consent decree in 1983 after they're accused of doing something wrong in a New Jersey gubernatorial election.
00:29:48.000And it ends up lasting for almost 40 years that the Republican National Committee cannot do any election day work for literally nearly 40 years.
00:29:58.000And so even though they finally get out of it in 2018, they sort of don't have the muscle memory to know what to do on Election Day.
00:30:07.000And a bunch of people at the RNC actually were taking everything very seriously.
00:30:11.000They were litigating all these issues, but they were still constrained by their own, you know, by having had 40 years with both arms tied behind their back.
00:30:20.000Okay, different consent decree in Georgia.
00:30:24.000It's not just, it's not just Raffensburger's fault there because it was actually his Secretary of State that signed that one in Georgia.
00:30:32.000That's where Mark Elias comes in with one of his little groups and sues to change mail-in balloting guidelines.
00:30:42.000And partly, I'm extremely critical of Georgia and the Secretary of State's office in the book.
00:30:49.000But this is actually not the worst issue that they did, even though this was one of the bad issues that they handled.
00:30:56.000They just kind of agree to what Mark Elias demands, but they did it in part because they'd already changed, the legislature had changed the law to expand mail-in balloting, and they felt that it wasn't too big of a deal.
00:31:08.000Republican lawyers at the state and national level kind of signed off on this.
00:31:12.000And they believed that if they went along to get along here, that it would give them a stronger footing when Elias came back and the Democrats came back and tried to expand election day ballot return for like another week or two.
00:31:27.000And they kind of thought, well, if we show good faith here, then the courts won't force us to keep the balloting open for week after week.
00:31:34.000But the much worse thing that the Georgians do, the Zuckerberg funding frequently comes in through friendly Democratic counties, right?
00:31:43.000You know, a Democratic county asks for a huge sum of money and they get it.
00:31:46.000And there's some reason to believe they all knew exactly what was going on with it.
00:31:50.000Georgia is the only case where like the Republican Secretary of State, they oversee this primary that's a total disaster in June and they get really negative coverage from the New York Times, which is like, who cares?
00:32:03.000It was the Democratic Fulton County commissioners who had done a bad job with managing the election.
00:32:09.000But they took it very personally and they invite Zuckerberg money in so that they can expand and dramatically and do like, basically they bring in the money so that they can do Democratic get out the vote efforts from, again, the Secretary of State's office and these county offices.
00:32:30.000Raffensperger basically ran the Democratic get out the vote operation.
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00:33:32.000I always focused on the consent decree, and you added some interesting context and put myself more in their shoes.
00:33:37.000I still think it was a mistake, but you're right.
00:33:39.000But you're trying to say that Raffensperger, because of a negative New York Times article, because of a poorly executed primary, they're like, you know what?
00:33:46.000Let's try to get some private money into this whole opera.
00:33:53.000So Fulton County was the place where people really did stand in line all day to vote in the primary.
00:33:59.000By the way, if you listen or watch or read the media coverage of that primary, it sounds like the most unhinged people on the right after the election.
00:34:09.000They're all like, they use Dominion voting systems and those are hackable and foreign adversaries.
00:34:31.000But that election goes so poorly that they think if we could help Democrats do their mail-in balloting, then we won't have long lines on election day.
00:34:41.000And what they're not realizing is what they're saying, what they're saying is if we could run the Democratic get out the vote operation from within our offices, and they targeted the funding in areas where they were expecting people to be amenable to mail-in balloting, which means they were targeting these like high population Democratic areas.
00:35:01.000And so they bring in the money and then they use the money to like do social media ads and radio ads targeting Democratic voting populations to help them maximize their vote numbers.
00:35:13.000These are the types of things that private campaigns like Republican and Democratic campaigns spend a lot of money on.
00:35:19.000They work really hard to get the information to know who to target and how to get out the vote.
00:36:17.000And he was, he kind of got, I think he got, I'd heard he'd gotten more money by being a contractor than by being an employee.
00:36:23.000But this is the same office that then leaks phone calls right on the eve of an election as sort of like this vindictive measure to go after President Trump.
00:36:32.000They also, I don't know if they were too stupid or if they were too ill-informed to understand what the Trump campaign was asking for in some of those calls.
00:36:41.000So in order to get a new election going forward in Georgia, courts have kind of said, you don't have to show how people would have voted if there are questionable ballots.
00:36:52.000You just have to show that there are enough questionable ballots.
00:36:54.000And one of the things the Trump campaign figures out is that there are in fact a ton of illegal votes in Georgia.
00:37:00.000They don't know who they would have gone for, but there are people who should have been voting in one place who were voting in another.
00:37:05.000And that disenfranchises, of course, legal voters who do follow the law about where you should vote.
00:37:11.000And Trump says something on the call like, I don't need you to agree that we have 150,000 of them.
00:37:16.000I just need you to find like 11,000 of them, which there were that many.
00:37:22.000And that gets leaked as if he's asking for them to find illegal votes.
00:37:26.000And it was, it was a like a somewhat complicated issue, but not that complicated.
00:37:30.000And the Secretary of State's office is the one leaking that.
00:37:37.000Well, there was also that other call that that office was alleged to have leaked in which they, well, it wasn't audio they leaked because when the audio came out, it turned out that what they claimed had happened on that other call hadn't actually happened.
00:37:50.000And that had been so explosive that it ended up, I think, in impeachment paperwork.
00:37:54.000And that office could really use some competency that is not there right now.
00:37:59.000So I first want to just reiterate the book title, Rigged.
00:38:05.000I want to thank you for writing it because you have a ton of respect and this issue is trying to be kind of swept under the rug by the ruling class in the Republican Party.
00:38:15.000And you have enough respect where you're going to be able to, I think, make this a consensus issue amongst the educated people.
00:38:24.000And do you want to comment on that before I get into the question?
00:38:27.000Yeah, just I think it's important that people understand that this isn't just about what happened in 2020.
00:38:32.000This is about all elections going forward.
00:38:35.000And you can't just accept rigged elections.
00:38:37.000You can't just accept like, oh, I guess we live in a place where people can completely pollute the process by which we elect people and there's nothing we can do about it.
00:38:47.000Democracy depends not on the consent of the winners, but on the losers.
00:38:51.000And so you have to have systems in place where people can trust results and they can deal with, you know, with the results, whatever they may be.
00:38:58.000And you can't have a really messy system and have a democratic aspect to our government continue.
00:39:05.000And so that is really kind of where I want to close out this conversation because I always try to be solution oriented, but you can only really be solution oriented if you know the problem, which we've gone through it.
00:39:14.000And we haven't even gone through all of it, by the way.
00:39:23.000So first off, I would say don't care at all about the media and what they say about it because these are the same people who said 2016 was stolen by Donald Trump and now you can't talk about 2020.
00:40:01.000Sort of one of the big problems that is out there is just not an agreement on what the rules are.
00:40:06.000And so you'll see Democratic counties sort of saying, we don't really know what the rules are, so we'll flout them.
00:40:11.000And you have Republicans who tend to be very like rule-oriented, following the strict letter of the law.
00:40:16.000The more you can clarify what the law is and how it should be practiced is best.
00:40:21.000And that's just going to depend on which state it is.
00:40:23.000But more than anything, just like be involved, be careful.
00:40:27.000Make sure you have proper oversight and make sure that the oversight is in place before the ballots are separated from the envelopes or before, you know, once they're separated, there's basically nothing you can do.
00:40:37.000So make sure all the systems are in place at the front end.
00:40:40.000Well, I just want to reiterate what you said, though.
00:40:42.000First of all, not caring about the media is important.
00:40:44.000They're going to say you're a threat to democracy and all this.
00:40:47.000And it's so, it's such a sad kind of indictment of where our country is because it's the opposite, honestly, because the ones that are a threat to democracy are the multi-billionaire oligarchs that no one voted for that just can come in and swoop and purchase the elections.
00:41:01.000And let me just kind of close with this.
00:41:03.000With the people you're talking to, the smart people in DC, you know, the important people, are you starting to see a consensus being built that this thing really was an election unlike anything we've ever seen?
00:41:15.000Or are you like, hey, we got to add more fuel to the fire?
00:41:18.000What are you seeing when it comes to this?
00:41:19.000Honestly, I never talked to anyone who didn't admit that this was a total mess in 2020.
00:41:25.000They all actually understood it and they all are working on it.
00:41:28.000I think they could really improve how they talk about it.
00:41:31.000And that goes for everybody, really understanding exactly what the issues are and clarifying and leading the way because it is an existential threat for people if we don't, if we can't have secure elections.
00:41:42.000But I do want to give one thing, which is throughout our history, we have fought over these things.
00:41:46.000We want to make, we want to make sure that people who should be voting are voting if they choose to vote and making sure that there isn't cheating.
00:41:54.000We really have had ongoing issues since before we even were a country.
00:41:59.000So it's not the end of the world that we're dealing with this.
00:42:01.000It just requires active participation from concerned citizens.
00:42:05.000And in a way, I'm more excited about where people are now that people are totally aware of how important it is to care about voting lists and ballot processes.
00:42:15.000Like people are much more informed now than they were two years ago.
00:42:18.000And I bet they wish they were this informed two years ago.
00:42:21.000And that's a huge thing going forward.