The Charlie Kirk Show - How Fauci Politicized America's Scientific Community with Dr. Scott Atlas, M.D.

00:00:00.000 Hey everybody, happy Monday.

00:00:01.000 My conversation with Dr. Scott Atlas, COVID Thought Crimes, straight from the front lines.

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00:01:52.000 Hey, everybody.

00:01:53.000 Welcome to this episode of the Charlie Kirk Show.

00:01:55.000 With us today is a wise and courageous man, Dr. Scott Atlas, who is the author of a new book that everyone should go purchase and pick up.

00:02:05.000 It is titled A Plague Upon Our House.

00:02:07.000 Dr. Atlas, welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show.

00:02:09.000 Okay, thanks for having me.

00:02:11.000 So let's start with just introduce yourself, a little bit of your background, and how did you get into this entire national conversation around COVID, our reaction around it, and talk a little bit about your time in the Trump White House.

00:02:24.000 Sure.

00:02:25.000 So, you know, I'm a health policy scholar at the Hoover Institution of Stanford University for the past 15 plus years.

00:02:33.000 And I have a 25-year background as a professor in clinical medicine and medical research at Stanford University, where I was professor and chief of neuroradiology there before taking the health policy job, which I've been doing for 10 years full time.

00:02:52.000 And I was working and noticed back in February that the country was off the rails.

00:02:58.000 The whole narrative about the pandemic, the pronouncements from the federal government, as well as many places in the world, were not sensible.

00:03:11.000 They were not actually reflecting a logical common sense approach to a viral disease.

00:03:18.000 And the country was off the rails with the lockdowns.

00:03:20.000 And so in March of 2020, I began to research and write full time about the pandemic and was writing about a more logical approach, which was we knew who was at risk.

00:03:34.000 We knew who to protect.

00:03:36.000 We should protect them directly.

00:03:38.000 Instead, what was being done was we knew who was at risk, but we were ignoring that.

00:03:43.000 And we were going to lock down all of society, close schools, close businesses, and stop functioning of everyone, even the lowest risk people.

00:03:53.000 And that was against the data and the science and all logic.

00:03:57.000 And so I started to work on that.

00:03:59.000 And then basically, toward the end of July, I was called up by the White House and asked if I would come and speak to the president.

00:04:08.000 Given that it was, you know, the biggest healthcare crisis in the century, and I'm a healthcare policy expert with a background in medical science.

00:04:17.000 Of course, the answer is yes, I'll come talk to the president.

00:04:20.000 So I came to speak to the president, and he asked me a bunch of questions.

00:04:24.000 And I was very forthright and direct.

00:04:27.000 And I spoke to a bunch of other people.

00:04:29.000 And at the end of the day, Jared Kushner said to me, We'd like you to help.

00:04:34.000 And so I said, I just want to make sure you know what you're getting here because I'm not going to ever change what I say no matter who tells me to, if I think I'm right.

00:04:46.000 I'm not going to sign on to any sort of group statement if it's not what I believe.

00:04:52.000 And I'm not going to say anything that someone else wants me to say unless I think it's correct.

00:04:59.000 And to his credit, he said, that's exactly why we want you.

00:05:03.000 And so I felt reassured at that at the end of that day.

00:05:06.000 And then he said something that was a little bit nerve-wracking, which is, you know, if this becomes public, you're going to be destroyed.

00:05:14.000 And I'm very concerned about that, Jared said.

00:05:18.000 And so that, of course, threw me a little bit because, you know, I'm basically not political in any way.

00:05:24.000 And I was doing this because the answer when the president asks you to help is yes.

00:05:29.000 So at that statement, I said, well, maybe I'll try to help from home.

00:05:34.000 And after a few days, it wasn't working.

00:05:37.000 Things were real time.

00:05:38.000 And meantime, there were all kinds of nonsense being spewed out by the people on the task force, which was the voice of the federal policy.

00:05:47.000 And so I said, okay, I'll come and help.

00:05:49.000 So I started working there, you know, at the end of July, beginning of August, and I stayed for my temporary position, which was a 130-day temporary position.

00:05:59.000 And, you know, this was how it worked there.

00:06:03.000 And so basically, you know, this was a shock to me.

00:06:06.000 And I think this is what people will understand from the book about what actually happened, what the thinking was, and what the actions were and the level of knowledge and critical thinking, which was absent on the task force.

00:06:20.000 Well, I mean, the point is that, you know, I was used to being, I'm a critical thinker.

00:06:27.000 That's the job.

00:06:28.000 You don't have to be a scientist to be a critical thinker, but if you're going to be a scientist, you better damn well be a critical thinker.

00:06:35.000 And so I came into the task force in the middle of August, actually.

00:06:40.000 And what I saw was shocking.

00:06:43.000 There were the medical people in the task force.

00:06:45.000 It was run the medical side by Dr. Deborah Burks.

00:06:49.000 And Dr. Fauci wasn't running it, but he was the most influential public face of the task force.

00:06:56.000 And Dr. Redfield was the head of the CDC and on the task force.

00:06:59.000 And these three people, you know, they were basically, these people are bureaucrats.

00:07:05.000 Burks and Fauci were in the government positions for 40 years.

00:07:08.000 Okay, I had a totally different background.

00:07:10.000 I'm a health policy and medical science scholar, and I'm used to being challenged and presenting from the data and analyzing in a critical way the data.

00:07:19.000 So I would come into the meetings, there'd be a question.

00:07:22.000 I had a dozen or 20 different scientific papers from all over the world in my briefcase, and I would go through the data.

00:07:29.000 And in response to that, they would have nothing to say to refute it.

00:07:34.000 They would have no refutation based on science.

00:07:36.000 They would never cite a scientific article, but instead, they would just go to their friends in the media or just say, you're fringe, or you're speaking without against the experts.

00:07:49.000 In the meantime, you know, I had been speaking with the experts almost every single day, expert epidemiologists, virologists, public health doctors, infectious disease scientists, almost every single day for months, including every day when I was in the White House.

00:08:05.000 And, you know, I just was at a different level.

00:08:08.000 I mean, the second part to realize, I think, for everyone who's listening is that the policies of the federal government advice were run by Dr. Burks.

00:08:17.000 Dr. Burks was the task force coordinator.

00:08:20.000 She was the official representative of the task force months before I walked in, during the months I was there, and afterwards.

00:08:28.000 And so she gave the advice to all the governors in writing.

00:08:33.000 She was on the road visiting them, dozens of states and public health officials.

00:08:37.000 I visited one single state, and that was Florida at the request of Governor DeSantis, who did something very different.

00:08:44.000 And so when you see in the news this Orwellian rewrite of history by Burks and others, somehow blaming people who were opposed to what was implemented for what was implemented on her advice, you know, this is the kind of world we're living in.

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00:10:05.000 Yeah, so there's so many, there's so many different directions I want to go with that.

00:10:09.000 So let's just start with who on earth came up with this idea of locking down a country?

00:10:15.000 Where did this come from?

00:10:17.000 What was the data behind it?

00:10:19.000 Why was this able to happen with such consensus and agreement?

00:10:22.000 And still happening in parts of our country, not as much, but in parts of Europe, they're still entertaining lockdowns.

00:10:28.000 Doctor, where did this come from?

00:10:30.000 So this was counter and in fact against what had been written in previous pandemic literature in previous iterations.

00:10:40.000 This was something that originated with this idea of quote stopping the spread.

00:10:46.000 Okay, so that made some logical sense.

00:10:48.000 Stopping the spread meant slowing the spread, not stopping the cases, but slowing things so that hospitals wouldn't get overrun in a temporary mode.

00:10:59.000 And that original, if you may remember, 15-day, let's, you know, 15 days to slow the spread.

00:11:05.000 We're still in part.

00:11:06.000 We're still in that.

00:11:07.000 Right.

00:11:08.000 And so, you know, this sort of made sense.

00:11:10.000 I think everybody was all in on this temporary 15 days to slow the spread so we wouldn't overrun the hospital.

00:11:17.000 But what that happened was it evolved into this sort of obsessive and irrational, frankly, non-scientific idea that you could stop the spread of a virus by locking down.

00:11:31.000 And so the lockdowns in the end were instituted.

00:11:35.000 These are what I call the Burke Spauchy lockdowns.

00:11:38.000 And don't forget what the public health figures in the United States say has extreme influence on the world.

00:11:46.000 Believe me, everybody in the world knows and hears what our public health figures say.

00:11:51.000 Excuse me.

00:11:52.000 So when we see this kind of irrational idea from people that were not used to working with this sort of virus, by the way, Burke Spauci and Redfield share something that people don't realize, and that is they worked on HIV together.

00:12:08.000 AIDS and HIV is transmitted very differently.

00:12:12.000 It's a completely different virus.

00:12:14.000 And by the way, these people were all in on developing an HIV vaccine instead of drug treatments, if you read the literature.

00:12:22.000 And this sort of may explain some of their approach to this.

00:12:27.000 But in any event, this kind of obsession with stopping all cases was irrational.

00:12:32.000 Even at the point of the spring and summer of 2020, tens of millions of Americans had the virus.

00:12:39.000 This was even admitted by the CDC.

00:12:42.000 This is a virus that's transmitted by breathing.

00:12:45.000 And so, you know, it's sort of irrational to do what they did.

00:12:49.000 And what they did, again, failed to stop the infection and destroyed families and literally killed people.

00:12:58.000 And this is the data.

00:13:00.000 The data on the lockdowns were that they failed to stop the spread.

00:13:05.000 And in fact, the most important paper written is in June of 2021, this year.

00:13:10.000 And your listeners should look at this if they're interested, which is, it was a study by the RAND Institute in USC in June 2021.

00:13:19.000 And it showed that the lockdowns actually resulted in increased deaths.

00:13:23.000 The lockdowns actually were instituted.

00:13:26.000 And when the deaths were coming down in 43 countries and in the United States, deaths increased.

00:13:33.000 The lockdowns killed people.

00:13:35.000 And that makes sense because economic damages are severe.

00:13:40.000 And when you lose jobs, you have, as we see, an explosion of deaths in explosion of drug abuse, explosion of sexual and child abuse, explosion of psychiatric visits, explosion of suicides in teenagers, explosion of self-harm tripling from the isolation, not from the virus, of self-harms in teenagers.

00:14:04.000 This is people putting cigarettes out on their skin or cutting their wrists here, as a big predictor of suicide, by the way, from the lockdowns.

00:14:12.000 The U.S. stands out, by the way, in following the Burke's Fauci advice of closing schools.

00:14:18.000 In the fall of 2020, our peer nations in Europe already recognized the data from the whole world's data that the schools were not a place where the cases spread, in fact, to adults.

00:14:36.000 In fact, children had extremely healthy children, extremely low risk from COVID.

00:14:41.000 That was proven by them a year and a half ago.

00:14:45.000 And it was already proven that children are not a significant source of spread to adults.

00:14:50.000 And it was also proven that teachers do not have a high risk in school settings from the world's data.

00:14:55.000 Yet the United States kept its schools closed for the full year in almost the entire country, Western Europe open.

00:15:03.000 This is a tragic abuse of children in the United States, really a breaking of the social contract between society and its children.

00:15:13.000 Well, Doctor, I completely agree.

00:15:15.000 And we were harsh critics of the lockdown, citing your commentary in your writings early and often.

00:15:21.000 However, what confuses so many members of our audience, and since you were on the front lines, I'd love your take on this, it seems obvious.

00:15:29.000 Then why do we keep on doing it?

00:15:32.000 Why is it that we were ruled by people that were more ideological?

00:15:37.000 I'm being nice, right?

00:15:38.000 I mean, these decisions have major and serious consequences.

00:15:43.000 And we're completely at odds with the data.

00:15:46.000 You know, strip all the politics aside, just looking at it empirically, you could not justify more lockdowns, more school closures, yet we did.

00:15:54.000 Can you give us any insight into the internal dynamics?

00:15:57.000 Did Fauci and Burks have a separate pile of data they weren't telling anyone?

00:16:02.000 Or was it there's another side of the story where they just didn't care?

00:16:06.000 I'd love your take on that.

00:16:08.000 Okay, so I'll first state what I believe, and I think everyone should believe people do want the pandemic to end.

00:16:15.000 I mean, I don't think that I would never ascribe a motive as evil as that.

00:16:22.000 There was no separate data.

00:16:24.000 In fact, like I tried to say here, these people didn't have that.

00:16:28.000 What they thought was data was just simple tabulations of cases.

00:16:33.000 Okay, that's not an analysis.

00:16:34.000 That's not critical thinking.

00:16:35.000 I'm talking about the world's literature, the world's data, the evolving science.

00:16:41.000 They never brought that forward in my presence at any of the meetings.

00:16:46.000 I never heard them talk about studies.

00:16:48.000 I never saw them critique a study like a critical thinking scientist should.

00:16:54.000 And I never heard anyone refute what I said by quoting studies.

00:16:58.000 Never, not once.

00:16:59.000 So that wasn't really the reason.

00:17:01.000 Now, the question why, of course, is very difficult to answer.

00:17:05.000 People at some level are in too deep.

00:17:08.000 These people will never admit they were wrong.

00:17:10.000 That I guarantee.

00:17:12.000 I mean, just as sort of an aside, the Catholic Church admitted after 359 years that Galileo was right, the Earth moved.

00:17:21.000 The heliocentric theory of the Earth.

00:17:23.000 Sure.

00:17:24.000 Yeah, I'm going to take the over, if you want to speak in betting language, on how many years it'll take for lockdown advocates to admit they were wrong.

00:17:31.000 These people's whole careers are in there.

00:17:33.000 Now, why did we follow?

00:17:35.000 So there's another reason, which is, of course, there's a conflict of interest in people.

00:17:39.000 There is this very insidious but sort of evil cabal in science.

00:17:46.000 And the science has been politicized.

00:17:49.000 And they, for instance, a scientist wrote the article to The Lancet in February 2020, claiming it was already known that the virus absolutely was of natural origin.

00:17:59.000 And anyone who said otherwise was a conspiracy theorist.

00:18:03.000 Okay, this is not a scientific statement.

00:18:06.000 This is a political statement.

00:18:08.000 And of course, it was incorrect in that no one knew that the virus was of natural origin.

00:18:15.000 I don't know what the origin of the virus is, but we certainly did not know in February 2020 absolutely that it was of natural origin.

00:18:23.000 That's ludicrous and in fact overtly false.

00:18:27.000 And there were other defamatory things written by scientists and published in scientific journals about people like me and others.

00:18:34.000 So why would that happen?

00:18:36.000 Well, number one, partly it was political.

00:18:40.000 You know, I mean, it's undeniable that there's a massive bias on one side of the aisle about politics.

00:18:48.000 I'll give you an example.

00:18:49.000 At Stanford University, the zip code of Stanford, California went two to one Biden to Trump.

00:18:56.000 Stanford was 95% Biden, 3% Trump.

00:19:00.000 Okay, so there's a political sort of take on that.

00:19:04.000 And particularly in other ways, it's obvious.

00:19:07.000 It's in the book.

00:19:08.000 But the second part is there's a conflict of interest in funding in science.

00:19:15.000 The NIH and Dr. Fauci personally controls a massive amount of the funding of research.

00:19:22.000 This is a fact.

00:19:24.000 The second fact that people don't understand is that the main thing that underlies scientific promotions in universities, faculty promotions, successful research, journal publications, is NIH funding of the research.

00:19:39.000 And then the people in charge of the scientific journals are the same people who review the research funding.

00:19:44.000 And so there's this very sort of nepotistic, I don't know how to describe it.

00:19:49.000 It's a cabal.

00:19:50.000 They control the careers of all the scientists, the funding stream, and they control the funding stream.

00:19:55.000 And so it would be very risky, as a hypothetical, for funded young, particularly by assistant associate professors in universities.

00:20:05.000 It would be very risky for them to start saying something that countered what Dr. Fauci said, for instance.

00:20:10.000 So there's this sort of conflict of interest built into the system that's very nefarious and is now interfering with seeking the truth.

00:20:20.000 Okay, we're in a country here where science has been politicized and where there is intimidation that prohibits the free exchange of ideas.

00:20:29.000 And this bodes very poorly for being able to solve future crises.

00:20:34.000 And we know this is not the last healthcare crisis or other crisis that we will see.

00:20:40.000 So, and then the other part of this is financial, of course.

00:20:43.000 When you have companies making tens of billions of dollars per year, their incentive is to make the money.

00:20:51.000 And so, you know, you have a company, let's just say company X is pushing boosters for vaccines.

00:20:58.000 Now, boosters for vaccines, these vaccines are experimental.

00:21:02.000 They work in terms so far the data shows that they prevent people who have a risk of dying from dying.

00:21:09.000 Okay, that's critical to understand.

00:21:12.000 That's good.

00:21:13.000 Their protection against infection wanes after four to six months, significantly wanes.

00:21:20.000 So they're not protective really long term at all against getting infected and against spreading the infection.

00:21:26.000 They're protective against death, and that is the reason why a high-risk person should take the vaccine.

00:21:32.000 This is an experimental technology, though.

00:21:34.000 We don't have long-term data on safety.

00:21:36.000 Typically, safety data on a vaccine takes five to ten years.

00:21:40.000 We don't have the vaccine for five to ten years.

00:21:42.000 Obviously, it was approved emergency use after a very short study on tens of thousands of people.

00:21:52.000 And then after the EUA, the emergency use, it turns out that all the people in the placebo arm, almost all of them got the vaccine.

00:22:02.000 So we don't have a placebo arm.

00:22:03.000 We never did a long-term study.

00:22:06.000 But even worse than that is the booster stuff.

00:22:08.000 When you have a company who's making tens of billions of dollars and they're pushing the boosters, and then you have scientists who are not public health leaders who are not using the normal thinking about saying things should be used like boosters where we have no significant safety data on an experimental technique, experimental drug, the safety data from Israel is on 30 days of observation, as far as I know, 30 days in a few thousand people.

00:22:38.000 This is not the way you judge safety.

00:22:41.000 And we already know half the people have had the infection about in the United States.

00:22:48.000 They have natural immunity.

00:22:50.000 And so you have an experimental drug with known side effects.

00:22:54.000 We don't have transparency on the side effects.

00:22:56.000 There's not a transparency on the side effects from the vaccine.

00:23:00.000 And we have people pushing vaccines on young people, children, and very young adults who are healthy, who have extremely low risk from the illness.

00:23:10.000 And we're expected to push vaccines and boosters eventually on these people.

00:23:16.000 I think you have to wonder who is who, where are the bioethicists here?

00:23:20.000 Okay, where are the, this is really, you have to question the morality of what's going on in this country.

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00:25:43.000 Well, I definitely would.

00:25:44.000 And so I'm just disappointed and confused, I guess, that as wealthy and as powerful our nation is, that the obvious was ignored by the people in charge of our public health.

00:26:01.000 I would have thought that we were at a place post-enlightenment that we could look at the data, look at it non-dogmatically, non-politically, and say, you know, the lockdowns are not helping.

00:26:13.000 The, you know, the massive vaccine, you know, inoculation campaign might not be wise or prudent with certain populations.

00:26:21.000 But, doctor, you touched on this, you know, profit incentives, you know, Fauci controlling the funding.

00:26:27.000 But what we're really getting at, though, is that science, as they always say it, is not the primary motivation here.

00:26:34.000 It isn't.

00:26:35.000 There's other things at play.

00:26:36.000 Am I reading that right?

00:26:38.000 Yeah, I think it's a fair statement to say that decisions were made that were not just counter to science and denying decades of scientific knowledge.

00:26:48.000 We still see that today, but they were really against the public health interest of the country.

00:26:56.000 They were counter to the public health interest, and they still are being made, that are counter to the health interests of the country.

00:27:04.000 When you talk about what the public health leadership did, the task force people, the doctors, Burke, Spauci, and others, their opinions on what to do were focused on one thing, stopping COVID-19 pieces at all costs.

00:27:20.000 That's an inappropriate leadership of public health.

00:27:24.000 My focus as a public health policy expert here was the appropriate focus, which is you have to consider all of health.

00:27:36.000 You never do a public health policy without considering the impact of the policy itself on the public health.

00:27:44.000 It's not just about stopping COVID.

00:27:46.000 We know that we destroy people.

00:27:49.000 The public health impact of this lockdown part of our history is not going to be completely felt for years, if not decades.

00:28:00.000 There's one study in the National Bureau of Economic Research that says that over the next 15 years, there will be 900,000 deaths of Americans extra from the lockdowns, not the virus, from missed medical care, from the unemployment, from all the things that I sort of partly articulated here.

00:28:20.000 And when we see that, that is really an unconscionable - this is the greatest error of public health policy probably in the history of the modern world.

00:28:32.000 That's a huge statement, and I agree with it.

00:28:34.000 Yeah, I mean, it's a tragic abuse.

00:28:37.000 And by the way, one more thing: it was much more impactful on lower-income families, on children in lower-income families.

00:28:46.000 This was lockdowns are a luxury of the rich.

00:28:50.000 Okay, when you have people who are in this elite class, including the class that I'm in, my job goes on from Zoom meetings.

00:28:59.000 You get Amazon delivering things, but the people that have regular jobs, the people that clean the bathrooms in the restaurant, it's not just the restaurant owner, it's all the people that work there in the small businesses.

00:29:12.000 These people lost everything.

00:29:15.000 And not only that, many of them were deemed essential workers.

00:29:19.000 So they got exposed to COVID more.

00:29:22.000 They're delivering your stuff from Amazon.

00:29:24.000 They're driving the bus.

00:29:26.000 While the people who are in the elite class, huddled up with their masks on in their home, they're not impacted significantly.

00:29:34.000 This is a heinous, really abuse of social class here.

00:29:40.000 I mean, I have so many thoughts on that.

00:29:42.000 The book is a plague upon our house.

00:29:44.000 So, doctor, let's talk about kind of where we're at now.

00:29:48.000 And there's some outlying questions about the vaccine.

00:29:54.000 And I know you've come out, I believe, against vaccinating children.

00:29:58.000 I don't want to put words in your mouth.

00:30:00.000 I might have read that.

00:30:02.000 Maybe I'm mistaken.

00:30:03.000 But there are outlying questions as why are the countries that are so vaccinated having spikes in COVID?

00:30:09.000 Israel, Singapore, Gibraltar, Vermont is the most vaccinated state in the country, and they have the highest COVID rate right now in America.

00:30:20.000 What's your thought on this?

00:30:22.000 Because to clarify the position that I, my opinion is that high-risk people should really, you know, I'm not anybody's doctor.

00:30:33.000 You should make a judgment in consultation with your doctor.

00:30:36.000 I hope you have a rational critical thinking.

00:30:39.000 That's the point.

00:30:39.000 It's not.

00:30:41.000 That's not.

00:30:41.000 Yeah, that's an assumption, exactly.

00:30:43.000 But assuming you have that in theory, you should make a judgment on your own risk from the illness and your own risk or benefit from the vaccine.

00:30:52.000 So high-risk people, I personally think, should take the vaccine.

00:30:56.000 I think high-risk children should take the vaccine, high-risk from COVID.

00:31:01.000 Okay, but high-risk children are not most children.

00:31:04.000 And so basically, what's happening to answer your question lies with the data on the vaccine.

00:31:11.000 When you look at the studies from the UK, from Israel, from Qatar, and as a side statement here, I never thought I'd see the day where I trust the data from other countries more than I trust the data from our own country.

00:31:25.000 I agree with you.

00:31:26.000 I want to get that.

00:31:27.000 I am in that.

00:31:28.000 Yes.

00:31:28.000 We are in that stage right now.

00:31:31.000 But in any event, when you look at the data, and the best study recently I read was from Sweden, and these studies all show the following pattern.

00:31:39.000 They show, this is the answer to what's going on in part anyway.

00:31:44.000 You know, they show that the protection against infection is very temporary.

00:31:49.000 It's short-lived with the vaccine.

00:31:51.000 You can vaccinate people with these vaccines, and after three to five months, you have a precipitous drop in the protection against being infected.

00:32:02.000 Okay, so when you look at that, that happened in Israel, that it has 39% efficacy after six months.

00:32:11.000 You look at Qatar, which showed that the and the other Israel studies that compared natural immunity, the studies that are important in Sweden, the studies show that the protection against death stays there for very, very good.

00:32:27.000 As far as we know, we don't even have a year after vaccine yet.

00:32:30.000 But if you look at Sweden, after nine to 10 months, still very high, 80% protection against death, unless you're over 80, the people who are over 80 starts to drop after about nine months.

00:32:44.000 Doesn't mean it's dropped to zero, but it's still pretty high.

00:32:47.000 You have to realize vaccines generally don't are not foolproof.

00:32:50.000 I mean, the flu vaccine, you know, half the people who die from flu had vaccination.

00:32:58.000 Okay, so, you know, it's not a surprise that it's not perfect even against death.

00:33:02.000 But against infection, there's a precipitous drop down to anywhere from zero to 20% after six months.

00:33:09.000 So that's very different from people who have had the infection and recovered.

00:33:13.000 The study from Israel is the best one that showed this in a large study that showed that there's 27-fold higher incidence of symptomatic COVID in people who were vaccinated compared to people who were recovered naturally from the infection.

00:33:31.000 The best immunity data that we see, if you compare two groups, people who were never infected but had the vaccine, compared to people who were infected and didn't get the vaccine, the people who were infected and didn't get the vaccine have a much more durable immunity, eight-fold better, eight-fold reduction in hospitalizations compared to people who got the vaccine.

00:33:51.000 So the vaccine, okay, it isn't as good as what was hoped in terms of preventing infection.

00:33:56.000 And so people, we've had the vaccine now going since mid-December in the U.S.

00:34:01.000 So plenty of people have had it after six months.

00:34:03.000 If you're high risk, that's a case to get a booster.

00:34:07.000 Okay, high-risk people, meaning people have high risk to die or get serious illness.

00:34:13.000 But people who have a low risk, I think that's a different kind of question.

00:34:18.000 So it's not a surprise given the data that we're seeing increasing cases even in populations that have been vaccinated.

00:34:26.000 We have to remember one other thing, Charlie, if I can, which is the idea that mandating vaccines, even for people who are low risk, low risk from illness, people who are children, all these kind of sort of inappropriate mandates, in my view, are undermining the confidence in the vaccines.

00:34:47.000 The worst enemy of vaccine acceptance is inappropriate mandating of the vaccine.

00:34:53.000 Okay, this is really causing people who should get the vaccine to say, wait a second, I don't want the vaccine.

00:34:58.000 By the way, we know there are complications from the vaccine.

00:35:01.000 It's not clear how frequent, but very serious complications in young males, myocarditis.

00:35:07.000 It's a small percentage, but it's serious.

00:35:10.000 Other countries are issuing warnings about this.

00:35:13.000 Other countries, England's group, the group consulting the UK's government, has said for now they do not recommend because of the cost-benefit ratio here, meaning risk-benefit, they do not really recommend people under 16 getting the vaccine.

00:35:29.000 Okay, we're busy trying to mandate vaccines for school children here.

00:35:33.000 I don't, there's something uniquely off the rails in the United States.

00:35:39.000 Internet privacy is extremely important.

00:35:42.000 New news out shows that Google has been colluding with the federal government to hand over your data if you might have searched something wrong into the search bar.

00:35:53.000 So, what are you doing to protect your search history?

00:35:56.000 Well, this is why you need ExpressVPN.

00:35:59.000 Using the internet without ExpressVPN is like going to the bathroom and not closing the door.

00:36:04.000 It's in fact even worse than that.

00:36:06.000 It's inviting someone to the bathroom, which is really weird and creepy.

00:36:09.000 Internet service providers know every single website you visit.

00:36:12.000 ISPs can sell this data and information to ad companies and tech giants who then use your data to target you.

00:36:20.000 ExpressVPN creates a secure, encrypted tunnel between your device and the internet.

00:36:26.000 So your online activity cannot be seen by anyone.

00:36:29.000 It's as easy as closing the bathroom door and fire up the app and click one button.

00:36:33.000 I use it on all my devices.

00:36:35.000 Every device, I have those beautiful three letters, VPN with a rectangle around it.

00:36:40.000 It's rated number one by CNET and tech radar.

00:36:44.000 Here's the cool thing: it works on phones, laptops, and even routers.

00:36:48.000 So everyone who shares your Wi-Fi can be protected.

00:36:52.000 Here's the thing: I have it on my iPhone, I have it on my iPad, I have it on my computer.

00:36:57.000 Express VPN for me has been a game changer to be able to know that the tech companies or the government have to go through a whole nother barrier to try to spy on us.

00:37:09.000 When we see with the new announcements out of DC, if you spoke at a school board meeting lately, you better get a VPN.

00:37:14.000 Secure your online activity by visiting expressvpn.com/slash Charlie today.

00:37:19.000 That's expressvpn.com/slash Charlie.

00:37:23.000 It's extremely important to anonymize your online activity, expressvpn.com/slash charlie.

00:37:34.000 And you can't, how can we, how can you pinpoint it?

00:37:37.000 I mean, it's just all the different factors you already talked about, I guess.

00:37:43.000 There's an inappropriate, you know, there's a government overreach here that is contrary to the science.

00:37:49.000 The CDC has made statements contrary or ignoring natural immunity.

00:37:54.000 Okay, we're the only country that I know of in the Western world that just simply ignores the fact that half of our population has immunity, very good immune protection from COVID.

00:38:06.000 We don't care.

00:38:07.000 We're just mandating vaccination for people.

00:38:10.000 I mean, this is sort of contrary to science.

00:38:12.000 This is really talking about misinformation, pseudoscience, very dangerous.

00:38:18.000 And frankly, we had the wrong people in charge of the public health leadership in the United States.

00:38:24.000 So we have two minutes, three minutes.

00:38:26.000 I want to be really respectful of your time.

00:38:29.000 And everyone, please go check out Dr. Atlas's book, The Plague That Came Becon, The Plague Upon Our House.

00:38:34.000 Is that right?

00:38:35.000 Plague Upon Our House.

00:38:36.000 That's right.

00:38:36.000 Plague Upon Our House.

00:38:37.000 But so, just to kind of complete it all together, Doctor, it doesn't seem like there's many people like you.

00:38:42.000 I can name them a short list, but why is there so much silence amongst the American medical community?

00:38:50.000 Partly, yeah, partly because of this complicated relationship of their own careers depending upon funding from the NIH itself.

00:39:01.000 But, you know, this points out something very important: the censorship, the censure by the intimidation by academia on people who are speaking the truth or at least wanting to have the debate is effective.

00:39:18.000 The intimidation is effective.

00:39:20.000 I had more than 100 scientists in the country email me saying, Scott, what you're saying is correct.

00:39:26.000 We're afraid to step forward.

00:39:28.000 These were scientists at universities, at Stanford University.

00:39:32.000 There are still people afraid to step forward because they saw what happened to me.

00:39:37.000 There are people inside the NIH that wrote me encouraging words and saying they were afraid to step forward.

00:39:43.000 We must stop this politicization and this attempt to censor people.

00:39:50.000 This cancel culture has impacted science.

00:39:54.000 And if you have impacted science without scientific truth and the seeking of truth by the free exchange of ideas, what kind of society do we have?

00:40:03.000 Well, that's what we're living through.

00:40:05.000 And it's an unhappy society.

00:40:07.000 It's a confused society.

00:40:08.000 It's an increasingly irrational society.

00:40:12.000 And it's too bad because we have the instruments to fix this.

00:40:17.000 Mostly our reason.

00:40:19.000 That's the most important thing that we have.

00:40:21.000 That's right.

00:40:22.000 People have to step forward and become critical thinkers on their own.

00:40:27.000 Make the effort.

00:40:28.000 Trust people who are consistent in what they say.

00:40:31.000 And you will arrive at a logical conclusion for what's best for you and your family.

00:40:38.000 I agree.

00:40:39.000 Dr. Atlas, thank you so much for joining us.

00:40:41.000 We deeply appreciate it and keep up the great work.

00:40:44.000 Thank you so much.

00:40:44.000 Okay, thank you.

00:40:45.000 Thanks for having me.

00:40:46.000 Thanks.

00:40:49.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:40:50.000 Email us your thoughts, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:40:52.000 God bless you guys.

00:40:53.000 Speak to you soon.

00:40:57.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk. com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - November 29, 2021

How Fauci Politicized America's Scientific Community with Dr. Scott Atlas, M.D.

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