The Charlie Kirk Show - November 28, 2023


How One Investigative Journalist Discovered the Shocking Truth About Red State DEI Policies


Episode Stats


Length

37 minutes

Words per minute

162.81168

Word count

6,138

Sentence count

455

Harmful content

Toxicity

5

sentences flagged

Hate speech

4

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

John Salier joins us to talk about Ohio State University, Texas Tech University, and the Deep State Leviathan known as DEI. A really important episode about how entrenched DEI is, and how they enforce party orthodoxy and punish anyone who steps out of line.

Transcript

Transcripts from "The Charlie Kirk Show" are sourced from the Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool. Explore them interactively here.
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Hey everybody, today on the Charlie Kirk Show, John Salier joins us to talk about Ohio State University, Texas Tech, NIH, and the deep state leviathan known as DEI, the DEI Commissars.
00:00:11.000 A really important episode about how entrenched DEI is.
00:00:15.000 The Soviets had commissars, the Maoists had the Red Guard, the French Revolution had Jacobins, and all were tasked with enforcing party orthodoxy and punishing anyone who stepped out of line.
00:00:25.000 And DEI bureaucrats are America's commissars of wokeness.
00:00:29.000 Email us as alwaysfreedom at charliekirk.com.
00:00:32.000 Fight back against all this nonsense with Turning PointUSA at tpusa.com.
00:00:37.000 That is tpusa.com.
00:00:39.000 Start a high school or college chapter today at tpusa.com.
00:00:44.000 Email us as alwaysfreedom at charliekirk.com.
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00:02:57.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
00:02:59.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.
00:03:01.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.
00:03:04.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.
00:03:08.000 I want to thank Charlie.
00:03:09.000 He's an incredible guy.
00:03:10.000 His spirit, his love of this country.
00:03:12.000 He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created.
00:03:17.000 Turning point USA. 0.65
00:03:18.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
00:03:27.000 That's why we are here.
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00:03:39.000 Joining us now is John Salier, Senior Fellow and Director of University Policy at the National Association of Scholars, a great organization and also contributor at the Wall Street Journal.
00:03:49.000 John, welcome to the program.
00:03:51.000 Several stories here I want to hit with you.
00:03:52.000 The first of which is inside Ohio State's diversity, equity, inclusion factory.
00:03:59.000 You obtained 800 pages of the diversity faculty recruitment reports from Ohio State, the Ohio State University.
00:04:08.000 Let's add insult to injury.
00:04:09.000 It's been a tough couple days for the Buckeye Faithful, but beyond a football game in Ann Arbor, this is real damage to Ohio State University.
00:04:17.000 What's going on here?
00:04:18.000 Yeah, thanks so much for having me on.
00:04:20.000 So, part of my role is to investigate what's happening at universities.
00:04:25.000 And I think you can't understand the university culture and all of the problems that we can see in it from the outside without looking at how faculty are hired.
00:04:38.000 And so, I was given a tip from a professor at Ohio State that every single search committee in their College of Arts and Sciences, which is a big part of the university, was required to submit a diversity faculty recruitment report.
00:04:57.000 In order to bring job candidates onto campus to interview them, they had to do this.
00:05:04.000 So, they had to describe on this forum how the search committee discussed diversity, how they used diversity statements to evaluate candidates, and how each of the candidates they were proposing to bring to the university contributed to diversity, equity, and inclusion.
00:05:26.000 And now, there's something very interesting about these documents because Ohio State stands out for its commitment to DEI.
00:05:34.000 They have 189 diversity officers who are compensated at $20 million a year total.
00:05:44.000 Their president two years ago announced a massive DEI-focused faculty hiring initiative saying that we're going to hire as many as 150 new professors who focus on diversity, equity, and inclusion.
00:05:58.000 And so, what these documents really do is give us an inside look into what universities mean when they say they're going to invest heavily in DEI.
00:06:07.000 And the results are not pretty.
00:06:09.000 So, I just did the math.
00:06:10.000 So, that's $20 million divided by 189 people.
00:06:13.000 That's an average of $105,820 a year average in Columbus, Ohio.
00:06:19.000 You can live on that in Columbus, Ohio.
00:06:22.000 Great, great spot, low cost of living there.
00:06:24.000 So, let's walk through this.
00:06:26.000 What I think is striking, though, is that Ohio has become, both gubernatorially and from a state legislative perspective, a red state.
00:06:36.000 The taxpayers of Ohio on all elections, they do not want this DEI thing.
00:06:41.000 If a candidate like Sherrod Brown were to run for the United States Senate re-election on the message of DEI, he would lose by 10 points, right? 0.60
00:06:50.000 Tim Ryan, when he would run against JD Vance, if he would say, Look, I want black-only dormitories and white people are to blame.
00:06:59.000 Yeah, you're not going to win Ohio with that message.
00:07:03.000 I'm saying this for a reason: is that the Ohio State University, which is a flagship publicly funded institution of the great state of Ohio, is out of lockstep with their voters.
00:07:13.000 This is not State University in New York, Albany, right, where critical race theory is really embraced by the Manhattanites.
00:07:21.000 What's going on here?
00:07:22.000 How could something so unpopular be funded so generously?
00:07:26.000 Yeah, it's really remarkable.
00:07:28.000 You would expect this kind of initiative in the University of California system, but this is just about the worst I have ever seen.
00:07:40.000 Look, we have positions in freshwater biology, molecular genetics, a whole just wide array of sciences where search committees very explicitly said we're going to focus on DEI and prioritize it heavily throughout the hiring process.
00:07:59.000 And if you look at the way that they actually evaluated these scientists, it involves basically the use of a political litmus test throughout.
00:08:10.000 I mean, it's really remarkable.
00:08:11.000 And you're exactly right.
00:08:13.000 This is happening not in California, not in Illinois, where there's not really any, you wouldn't expect political pushback.
00:08:20.000 This has happened in Ohio and it's been allowed to happen in Ohio, which is really, I think, stunning because you're right.
00:08:30.000 This kind of thing is remarkably unpopular, even amongst faculty.
00:08:34.000 When I made this request, the College of Arts and Sciences at Ohio State emailed all of the faculty in the college and said, we're going to turn over these documents to the National Association of Scholars.
00:08:48.000 What happened after that was I got multiple faculty members reaching out to me telling me, you need to look here too, telling me, here's some tips.
00:08:59.000 I heard from one faculty member, look, there is a total sense of impunity.
00:09:04.000 And ultimately, that's not just a problem with a few rogue actors.
00:09:08.000 That's ultimately a problem of priority that starts from the top.
00:09:13.000 And I think that there's really some, you know, anyone reading this should think really hard about how we got to this point where Ohio State is the exemplar of, you know, basically the craziest DEI policies you could possibly put down in writing.
00:09:34.000 Yeah, I mean, MAGA might be winning politically in Ohio, but DEI is winning culturally and academically.
00:09:41.000 I mean, Ohio used to be a battleground state.
00:09:43.000 Now it's not.
00:09:44.000 It is, it's a place where the media libels Ohio as a white working class revolt. 0.54
00:09:51.000 Okay, great.
00:09:52.000 I mean, there's some truth to that, I guess, but I don't know why they have to racialize it.
00:09:55.000 But again, the average person in Athens, Ohio, whose grandfather used to work at the steel mill that got shut down, and they've seen their wages go down, they want to hear that there's some bureaucrat at Ohio State University earning $108,000 a year.
00:10:12.000 So let's walk through this.
00:10:14.000 What does a DEI czar do?
00:10:16.000 Like, what is their day-to-day job?
00:10:19.000 You said there's 189 of these people at Ohio State University.
00:10:23.000 Yeah.
00:10:24.000 And, you know, in some ways, it's a mystery to me how they could possibly employ 189 people in these kinds of roles.
00:10:33.000 But the documents I acquired give a few hints as to what they do on the day-to-day.
00:10:39.000 So for instance, there was this really crazy moment in one of the documents.
00:10:43.000 It was a search for an astrophysicist.
00:10:46.000 So a professor who studies astrophysics and teaches astrophysics.
00:10:50.000 And they said that they required a DEI statement.
00:10:54.000 So a statement from the candidate on how they contribute to DEI.
00:10:58.000 And they then go on to say that the DEI statement was given equal weight to the professor's research and teaching statements.
00:11:06.000 You know, research and teaching are really the only two other things professors do.
00:11:11.000 So they're saying that DEI was on par with the most basic thing a professor should do.
00:11:16.000 Now, what's really interesting about that document is then they make a comment right in those notes that say we prioritize DEI just as much as teaching and research.
00:11:26.000 They said that this was basically explicit instruction in the diversity faculty hiring training, which was conducted by, you might expect, some of these diversity officers.
00:11:43.000 So often what these diversity officers end up doing is they end up telling professors what they should do.
00:11:50.000 They end up telling faculty, this is how you should prioritize these diversity criteria throughout the selection process and in other parts of the whole university life.
00:12:03.000 I want to build this.
00:12:03.000 This is such an important detail.
00:12:05.000 So $20 million a year, 189 people that basically create a DEI administrative state that are like a permanent DEI deep state at Ohio State University. 0.97
00:12:16.000 So the astrophysicist has to bend their knee to that all white people are racist or whatever garbage that Nicole Hanna-Jones is publishing. 0.91
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00:14:06.000 Texas Tech University.
00:14:08.000 I've been there.
00:14:09.000 In fact, we might be going there this spring.
00:14:12.000 Lubbock, Texas is one of the most conservative places on the planet.
00:14:18.000 And yet there was some reporting here that we want to explore.
00:14:20.000 John Saylor continues with us.
00:14:22.000 John, what did you learn about Texas Tech University?
00:14:26.000 So in the summer of 2020, Texas Tech University's Department of Biological Sciences passed a DEI resolution that created all sorts of policies that the department was supposed to follow to essentially embed Kennedy style anti-racism into the biology department's basic operating system.
00:14:50.000 And so one part of that resolution happened to say something that was of interest to me since I use Freedom of Information Act requests and public records requests to do a lot of my investigative reporting.
00:15:03.000 It said that for every job candidate, they have to submit a diversity statement describing all of the ways they contribute to diversity, equity, and inclusion.
00:15:13.000 I mean, already that's pretty remarkable for a department of biology to even require.
00:15:19.000 And they said they're gonna heavily weigh that statement and that they have a rubric for evaluating the statement, which was, I would say, very ideologically charged.
00:15:31.000 But it also noted that every single candidate who was evaluated would get a specific report done on their contributions to DEI, the way that the committees evaluated them.
00:15:46.000 So using the public records law in Texas, I asked for those evaluations.
00:15:52.000 And what I found was truly remarkable.
00:15:55.000 So we have instances where candidates were said to be weaker because they couldn't describe the difference between equality and equity, which, as I'm sure you know, is pretty much a progressive political talking point.
00:16:09.000 Most of the time, people say, well, equality is equality of opportunity.
00:16:13.000 But in order to achieve true justice, you need to do more than just strive for equality.
00:16:19.000 You have to strive for equity, which is really equality of outcomes.
00:16:23.000 You have people like Kamala Harris on record saying basically exactly that.
00:16:27.000 So now, if you're applying to these positions in high-stakes science at Texas Tech University, until recently, you could have been docked for not making that progressive distinct, that distinction about basically progressive politics.
00:16:45.000 Other candidates were praised for things like starting their job talk with a land acknowledgement.
00:16:53.000 And the list just goes on, but what you saw here was not just that they evaluated it in a politically charged way, which is probably in violation of the First Amendment because it constitutes compelled speech, but it was also a significant part of faculty evaluation.
00:17:11.000 We're talking about 30% of their total score went to these DEI statements.
00:17:17.000 That means that you have candidates and positions applying for positions in virology, immunology, cell biology, which is integral to studying things like the cures for cancer.
00:17:31.000 You have people applying for those positions, scientists hoping to do serious science instead being weeded out on the basis of their political views.
00:17:39.000 It was truly, this was the first time we ever got a look into how these statements were evaluated.
00:17:45.000 It confirmed everything that people like, you know, groups like NAS have been saying for a long time, that these constitute political litmus tests and that they're basically a disgrace to academia.
00:18:00.000 After your reporting, the Texas Tech Chancellor testified saying that race would not trump merit play cut 39.
00:18:09.000 It was a single department in a single school within the university, but and the way the article read, it made it look like it was university policy.
00:18:18.000 It's not that.
00:18:19.000 When we find out about something like that, we correct it because it's not appropriate to have litmus tests.
00:18:25.000 And so we do do things to correct it.
00:18:26.000 And then you take action to make sure it's not going to occur in other departments as well.
00:18:31.000 That preventative action, Chancellor Mitchell said, is underway right now, calling for a thorough review of the hiring practices in all departments to ensure they focus on merit and not ideology.
00:18:44.000 Is he telling the truth?
00:18:45.000 You know, the day after I published my article, Greg Abbott sent a memo to all universities saying, you cannot use this criteria.
00:18:55.000 It is against the law.
00:18:56.000 So I think they are telling the truth, but they're telling the truth because they face political pressure.
00:19:02.000 And I think any politician looking at these at times blatantly unlawful policies, they should take note of that.
00:19:08.000 It requires political pressure to actually end these disastrous policies.
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00:21:01.000 Okay, so John, I want to continue to the third story here, which I think is really important.
00:21:06.000 How the NIH pushes DEI on scientists.
00:21:09.000 You mentioned this at Ohio State University, the astrophysicists, but now are you saying that the federal granting system is laced with DEI requirements?
00:21:18.000 Walk us through it.
00:21:20.000 Yeah, so the policy at Texas Tech might have ended because Governor Abbott took action, because state legislators took action.
00:21:32.000 In Texas, at least in theory, it's no longer allowed to require a job candidate to submit a diversity statement, which I think is a big win for academic freedom and for the universities in Texas.
00:21:47.000 But I don't think that policy is going away anytime soon.
00:21:50.000 And I have really good reason to think that, because right now, the NIH, the National Institutes of Health, has a quarter billion dollar program funding faculty hiring.
00:22:03.000 The main mechanism that they are pushing with that program is precisely this policy, using DEI statements as a heavy criterion for assessing all faculty candidates.
00:22:16.000 Now, what's particularly noteworthy is the NIH is the predominant way that we fund medical science in the United States.
00:22:25.000 Really, if you think of medical schools, if you think of medical research, you should be thinking of the NIH because that's the way that academic medical researchers think about their job.
00:22:35.000 It's science funded by the NIH.
00:22:39.000 So what's really remarkable is exactly what they're doing.
00:22:42.000 They created this grant program, which gives money to universities across the country for faculty hiring.
00:22:48.000 And they say, go out and hire university professors.
00:22:52.000 And what they do is they say as a condition for getting this money, your grant has to show how you are going to, or that you're going to require the use of these diversity statements and that you're going to heavily weigh them in the evaluation process.
00:23:07.000 And doing some investigation on this, I found that when I asked for the rubrics at public universities that received this grant, the way that they evaluated diversity statements, here's the most remarkable part of that.
00:23:22.000 One of the rubrics that was used at the University of New Mexico and the University of South Carolina explicitly gives a low score to job candidates who say they want to treat everyone the same.
00:23:35.000 That's not an exaggeration.
00:23:36.000 That is literally what the rubric says.
00:23:39.000 So I want to take a step back here and play the opposition advocate here, which is people will say, but what's the big deal?
00:23:48.000 This is anti-racism training.
00:23:50.000 It's just workforce development.
00:23:52.000 It enriches our environment.
00:23:56.000 Why are you racists being so difficult to get in the way of the new progressive standard operating procedure?
00:24:06.000 Why should we care about this?
00:24:08.000 Give us some evidence of where this leads us.
00:24:11.000 I would say there are a couple of things.
00:24:13.000 So first, when you make ideologically charged statements a requirement for hiring faculty, what you're going to do is create a political echo chamber on campus.
00:24:25.000 And I think that that's so important to recognize when we see university professors increasingly say crazier and crazier things.
00:24:35.000 Look, I'm a believer in free speech.
00:24:37.000 I think university professors should be allowed to say crazy things if that's what they believe. 0.81
00:24:41.000 But you have to ask, why do they exist in an environment where they can say that kind of thing and not be completely embarrassed by a number of people they who are colleagues pushing back and saying, no, you know, equivocating about a terrorist attack or something like that is just a really bad and dumb thing to do.
00:25:06.000 The reason they can get away with, the reason they can get away without being horribly embarrassed is because they live in a political echo chamber.
00:25:14.000 And why do they live in a political echo chamber?
00:25:17.000 It's policies like these that either formally or informally weed out any dissenting voice.
00:25:23.000 And that's really, really important that we have dissenting voices.
00:25:27.000 Otherwise, it just totally discredits academia.
00:25:30.000 And I think that's what we see today.
00:25:32.000 And so, you know, that's one of the main things I focus on.
00:25:35.000 But I think that there are also a lot of other reasons that this kind of policy is really bad.
00:25:40.000 So for instance, I think often it also just feeds into overt discrimination.
00:25:45.000 I actually think it's a good thing that we have moved to a point where we say, no, you should never be hired on the basis of race.
00:25:53.000 But now that's kind of what people are trying to do.
00:25:56.000 And I think often when you see these diversity statement policies, what you should think is you should be asking the question, is this an attempt to get around civil rights law that prevents discrimination?
00:26:08.000 I know of instances where it absolutely was.
00:26:11.000 And lastly, I would say it speaks to a kind of lack of seriousness.
00:26:15.000 This is the NIH.
00:26:16.000 This is the way we fund medical research.
00:26:18.000 There are still numerous forms of cancer that we have not cured.
00:26:23.000 We need to be spending our money on things that are going to improve people's lives.
00:26:28.000 And to say that we should instead spend money to prioritizing DEI is really an absolute shame.
00:26:34.000 And it just makes a mockery of what science is for.
00:26:39.000 Well, yeah, I mean, how about the NIH worries about why Americans are so overweight or why so many young people are killing themselves?
00:26:46.000 I mean, I just, it is almost gets to an obsession by certain ideologues that the greatest sin is to be racist.
00:26:54.000 Now, you deal a lot in kind of academic waters.
00:26:58.000 Is that, for example, when they write the AI code for Chat GPT, it's so interesting because elite values are mirrored into AI chat boxes.
00:27:06.000 If you really want to find out what the intelligentsia believe, just type something in the chat GPT and it can't say anything racist as if that's like the ultimate prime directive to use Star Trek language, right?
00:27:18.000 Like do not interfere with Native populations and you can never say anything racist.
00:27:23.000 But in their quest not to say anything racist, they almost create this new worldview of anti-racism that in reality is incredibly bigoted and hateful and spiteful.
00:27:35.000 I'll give you just one example.
00:27:36.000 The Wall Street Journal, where I know you're a contributor, had this very powerful story here today.
00:27:40.000 And I wanted to cover it.
00:27:42.000 And I think it's perfect to cover it.
00:27:43.000 I don't know if you saw this or not.
00:27:44.000 The Evanston High School.
00:27:45.000 I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago, where in Evanston High School, they say we have black classrooms and white classrooms.
00:27:51.000 That's all done in the spirit of anti-racism.
00:27:54.000 Now, when I say that to a regular everyday American, they almost refuse to believe it.
00:27:58.000 So I think part of our job is to say, hey, you know, that DEI commissar that's walking around, they actually do want you to end up in some form of segregation.
00:28:06.000 Your thoughts, John?
00:28:07.000 I think that's, you know, it's correct.
00:28:10.000 And it's also correct that it's hard to believe.
00:28:12.000 That's the kind of thing that prior to my, you know, career as somebody who does reporting, I would have had a hard time believing that.
00:28:22.000 But again and again, I find evidence that that kind of thing is happening.
00:28:25.000 You know, what you're describing is a form of racial affinity groups where people for trainings or classes or, you know, a variety of activities are separated by race.
00:28:38.000 So you have the black caucus or the Hispanic caucus or the white caucus.
00:28:43.000 Now, that already, to many, just sounds like segregation.
00:28:46.000 And really, that's what it should be called.
00:28:49.000 And we've seen really disastrous effects.
00:28:52.000 You know, we're creating a world where students, young people have started to think of race as one of the most important parts of their lives.
00:29:02.000 And that I think is a huge step backwards.
00:29:05.000 But, you know, one thing to tie it back to the story that I wrote about the NIH, the rubrics that I found through a public records request at the University of South Carolina and the University of Mexico, both of them also gave a low score to anyone who expressed skepticism about racial affinity groups.
00:29:27.000 That's literally a part of the rubric.
00:29:29.000 So you have these layered effects where first you have the policy, which itself, you know, creates an environment where people might be afraid to speak up.
00:29:38.000 You know, if you're a white student and you've suddenly been put in an all-white racial affinity group to undergo a kind of diversity training, it might already be pretty hard for you to say, hey, I think you're thinking about this the wrong way.
00:29:53.000 But then you have a layer of bureaucrats and policies that are adopted over time and kind of pick up steam over time that make it even harder to question at the second level, to question the very existence of those policies.
00:30:10.000 And that's what we have with this, you know, diversity statement requirement.
00:30:14.000 If you say in a diversity statement that I think we should live in a race neutral society where we are not separated out on the basis of our race, because that is not the kind of thing Americans should do.
00:30:24.000 And that is more an expression of true diversity as it should be than anything else.
00:30:30.000 That would get you a low score.
00:30:32.000 That would get a scientist disqualified from a job according to these rubrics that be uncovered.
00:30:38.000 And, you know, I think that's crazy.
00:30:40.000 I think that's absolutely crazy.
00:30:41.000 Wall Street Journal, school district offers classes separated by race.
00:30:45.000 I found it.
00:30:46.000 Evanston High School.
00:30:47.000 I mean, there's no mystery.
00:30:48.000 The headline in the Wall Street Journal, as you well know, they're not for sensationalism.
00:30:52.000 They really strive for accuracy.
00:30:54.000 It's not an exaggeration.
00:30:55.000 Let me read this from you.
00:30:57.000 Let me read this for you.
00:30:58.000 School districts in Minnesota, Seattle, San Francisco, Oakland offer race-specific elective courses.
00:31:05.000 This is what's so funny.
00:31:06.000 It's right in the article, Wall Street Journal.
00:31:08.000 Federal anti-discrimination laws prevent public schools from mandatorily separating students by race, but education lawyers say optional courses can comply with the law.
00:31:16.000 I mean, the obvious thing is white-only classes are coming next. 0.74
00:31:20.000 It's just this is where we're coming to, you know, a rebirth of white identitarianism in public education, which you have to wonder is that what they're trying to provoke, right? 0.61
00:31:29.000 And it continues here.
00:31:31.000 And by the way, they changed their whole criteria as soon as the Wall Street Journal started to reach out.
00:31:36.000 And they're right here, the district offers middle school and high school students electives focused on black history and social-emotional learning support specifically for black students because they say it's an easier way for them to learn.
00:31:50.000 Hey, everybody, Charlie Kirk.
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00:32:53.000 So, John, other work you want to plug, research you're doing?
00:32:56.000 Talk about the National Association of Scholars, please.
00:32:59.000 So the National Association of Scholars is a think tank and membership organization that focuses on exactly this kind of issue.
00:33:08.000 I would encourage everyone to go check it out.
00:33:11.000 It's nas.org.
00:33:15.000 And, you know, you can become a member.
00:33:17.000 I'd encourage you to do that, especially if you're working in education or academia.
00:33:22.000 That does a lot to support our work.
00:33:25.000 And at the same time, I do a lot of my reporting on, you know, I post it a lot on Twitter.
00:33:31.000 So you can follow me at John D. Saylor, S-A-I-L-E-R.
00:33:36.000 I have something on this story about Ohio State coming out a little bit later today, talking about what's really inside some of those documents following up on the Wall Street Journal story.
00:33:47.000 And yeah, you know, I have over the last year submitted over 250 public records requests.
00:33:54.000 I'm constantly talking to professors and trying to get to the bottom of what's happening in higher education and show people, you know, what I think is a true scandal.
00:34:07.000 This is a true scandal.
00:34:08.000 I think a lot of people don't recognize that.
00:34:10.000 And to a certain extent, none of us knows how far it goes.
00:34:14.000 And so my job as an investigator is to look into these things and try to tell people what's happening.
00:34:19.000 That's what I'm doing.
00:34:20.000 I'm going to continue to do it.
00:34:22.000 And I really appreciate the opportunity to come on today and talk about it.
00:34:25.000 Well, it's heroes work.
00:34:26.000 So let me just ask you, Spitball, here about two minutes remaining, John.
00:34:29.000 When donors pull gifts to universities, does that make an impact?
00:34:33.000 What are some of the action items for our audience when we're fighting this rather calcified institutionalized leviathan?
00:34:40.000 It's like you turn around and there's another nine commissars here and 25 here and $20 million.
00:34:45.000 What are the effective countermeasures that can be done here?
00:34:51.000 I would say it takes three things.
00:34:53.000 First, it takes exposure.
00:34:56.000 And that's what I'm trying to do.
00:34:58.000 That's what a lot of people in this space are trying to do.
00:35:00.000 They're trying to get to the bottom of what happens.
00:35:03.000 And if you're in a role at a university, you can help me with that.
00:35:08.000 You can tell me what's going on.
00:35:10.000 You can tell me about things to request through FOIA.
00:35:13.000 And that actually makes a big difference.
00:35:15.000 But beyond that, yeah, there are certain levers of power that we have to take hold of and use effectively in smart ways.
00:35:23.000 That involves things like lawsuits.
00:35:25.000 A lot of what's happening is illegal and people are rightly pushing back.
00:35:29.000 And universities are afraid of that.
00:35:31.000 I think donors, I mean, it's, it's, we have still have yet to see what's going to happen because honestly, donors have been very slow to pull out funds.
00:35:40.000 I think that they should be a lot more aggressive about saying this stuff is bad.
00:35:44.000 Same with politicians.
00:35:46.000 Often they don't realize that the public and, you know, the just common sense is on their side.
00:35:54.000 They need to do basic smart things like pushback on the use of mandatory DEI statements.
00:36:00.000 But finally, I do think we need to think about building new institutions and building new things within existing institutions.
00:36:08.000 And I'm given a lot of hope by what we've seen, but I think we're really only getting started.
00:36:13.000 Just final question.
00:36:14.000 Where have you seen, if anywhere, an institution reclaimed once it goes woke?
00:36:21.000 Have you seen that at all?
00:36:22.000 You know, I have to give a shout out.
00:36:24.000 I live in North Carolina.
00:36:26.000 I've paid attention to University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill for a long time.
00:36:30.000 And what their Board of Trustees and Board of Governors have done has been a fantastic start.
00:36:38.000 They eliminated, they explicitly banned compelled speech, no more diversity statements.
00:36:44.000 They explicitly followed up on the Supreme Court's decision saying we are absolutely not going to try to bypass this ruling.
00:36:53.000 And they've created a school of, I would say, intellectual freedom where they really want to hire, from what it looks like, they want to hire people who share this vision for open, free intellectual discourse.
00:37:10.000 And I think that that kind of thing is amazing to see.
00:37:12.000 I'm really excited about what's going on.
00:37:15.000 That's promising.
00:37:16.000 I will be, I'm scheduled to speak there in the spring.
00:37:20.000 So I'm going to put that to a test, John.
00:37:22.000 We'll see.
00:37:22.000 We'll see how open and accepting they are.
00:37:26.000 Excellent work, John.
00:37:27.000 Really great.
00:37:28.000 Thank you so much.
00:37:29.000 Thanks so much.
00:37:30.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
00:37:31.000 Email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.
00:37:34.000 Thanks so much for listening and God bless.
00:37:37.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.