This is a recap of my weekend in Tampa, Florida at Turning Point USA s Student Action Summit, where I spoke to over 7,000 young patriots, and learned a lot. I also talk about the rise of Momdaniism, a Muslim running for mayor in Minneapolis, and much more.
00:00:52.000We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
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00:02:15.000You wouldn't think that an event like we're hosting at the Student Action Summit coming after an election, you'd have this kind of spark and this kind of energy.
00:02:26.000Woke up very early, did Fox and Friends, awesome with my friend Charlie Hurt, went straight from there and sat with the young students at Turning Point USA privately, 100 of them, table by table for over an hour, listening to them, learning from them.
00:02:39.000Went straight from there and spoke to the Chapter Leadership Summit for an hour and a half and took questions, dashed to our program here, did two hours live on radio, then boom, did another Fox News hit.
00:02:50.000And then straight from the Fox News hit, went and did a prove me wrong for an hour and a half where people were able to ask non-political cultural questions, then went backstaged, opened the event.
00:03:01.000Then I had to go dash and go do interviews at the members-only lounge of Charlie Kirk Show with Tucker Carlson.
00:03:11.000Oh, yeah, and then I had to go greet Pete Hegseth.
00:03:13.000We did a members-only interview with Pete Hegseth.
00:03:15.000Then I went back to the main stage, interviewed Megan Kelly.
00:03:19.000After I interviewed Megan Kelly, dashed back and did a members-only interview with the apostate prophet, which is an incredible interview that you are going to love.
00:03:28.000Finished up that members-only interview with the apostate prophet to then only have to go to two donor dinners, couple donor meetings, all in between getting lots of phone calls about the very slow news weekend without any caffeine, purely on water and patriotism.
00:04:45.000And I'm going to trust my friends, Cash Patel, Dan Bongino, my friend Pam Bondi, all these guys, Todd Blanche, I'm going to trust them to solve it.
00:04:54.000I think that there was plenty of, let's say, speeches that were directed towards this topic this last weekend.
00:05:01.000So we don't need to spend our valuable time on this program relitigating it.
00:05:07.000And by the way, this last weekend, we also had a lively debate on stage that you should check out, which I'm going to talk about later in the hour about Israel, Josh Hammer versus Dave Smith.
00:05:15.000It's gone super viral, all about Israel.
00:05:17.000But taking a step back, I want to remind you the big picture.
00:06:15.000Coming out of this event, though, I want to repeat something that I told almost every reporter to keep this movement together, to keep this movement be the dominant generational movement and to make this the most permanent generational shift since Woodstock is that we must be honest and serious about the renter economy versus the ownership economy.
00:06:41.000This kept coming up from students at our event.
00:06:45.000The repetition from the students, which is, Charlie, I wish our leaders would just talk about how I can't afford homes.
00:06:51.000Charlie, I wish our leaders would emphasize about how I can't afford anything.
00:06:56.000And they said, we love President Trump.
00:06:58.000We want the one big, beautiful bill to work.
00:07:01.000And the takeaway is that they want their leaders to address their immediate concerns.
00:07:08.000When we win elections, and I think President Trump is doing this, we must govern in a way that fulfills the mandate.
00:07:15.000So I look at myself almost as, I mean, look, I wear a lot of different hats.
00:07:21.000I'm like a special interest group advocate.
00:07:24.000And I had a great conversation with the president on the phone last night expressing this.
00:07:28.000I'm kind of a special interest advocate for three groups.
00:07:31.000The conservative base, evangelicals, but most importantly and most well-known for younger people, younger voters.
00:07:40.000And you could add the muscular class on top of that because we have a really good connection on this program and through all of our advocacy with the muscular class.
00:07:47.000As a side note, what's so awesome is when we do these events, the guys taking out the trash, the guys that were cleaning up the conference center, and they do such a great job.
00:07:57.000They work tough, tough hours, a lot of overtime.
00:08:17.000But what I'm saying, though, is that I'm trying to deliver a message as a conduit, as a transmitter, as a interlocutor, if you will, saying the next generation is prime for a permanent conservative realignment.
00:09:39.000But Mamdaniism, coupled with Muhammadism, if we do not achieve and fulfill the mandate to get younger people to own homes, get married, have kids.
00:09:54.000If we do not fulfill that mandate, if we do not have young people be able to own instead of rent, then you will see an introduction of radicalization of our politics.
00:10:10.000I'm excited to tell you that I'll be speaking at the Culture and Christianity Conference at World Outreach Church just south of Nashville, Tennessee this September, and I'm inviting you to join me.
00:10:20.000My friend Pastor Alan Jackson organized this conference so we can address the issues we're facing in today's culture, but through the lens of God's truth.
00:10:29.000We'll talk about what's happening in the church, the media, and with our help.
00:10:32.000When you'll attend, you'll gain insight and valuable perspectives on what's happening in the world today.
00:10:36.000Learn how to recognize truth from deception.
00:10:39.000Find boldness so you could defend your faith with confidence and compassion.
00:10:43.000Join me, Pastor Alan, Sage Steele, Dr. Bill Lyle, and many more.
00:11:11.000If we fail to make renters and owners, if we fail and we fall short, which again, I think President Trump is really onto something with the cutting the rates thing.
00:11:21.000If we cut interest rates, a lot of this ownership economy becomes more real.
00:11:27.000And I know this because we're here in Phoenix, Arizona, which was once one of the most affordable cities in America, and it's now become one of the most expensive cities in America.
00:11:36.000Because during COVID, this was a freedom beacon state.
00:11:38.000So a lot of people sold their assets in blue states that have much higher asset values because cost of living, brought their appreciated capital into the state of Arizona and created a housing rush with a limited supply.
00:11:51.000And next thing you know, Arizona is now one of the most expensive states in the country.
00:11:57.000And the tragedy is this, and I know this from so many of my wonderful staff.
00:12:03.000If you were able to get into the housing market, let's just say before, up, up until early 2022, you are in a rock solid position.
00:12:12.000Let's just say 2021, right as Trump left office.
00:12:16.000If you, though, were able, if you have not been able to and you wanted to get into the housing market in 2023, 2024, 2025, you're on the outside looking in.
00:14:34.000So apparently, this guy is Somali mayor candidate Omar Fatah, who says, quote, protecting all of our communities from Donald Trump means not letting the Minneapolis Police Department interact with ICE, whether it's an immigration raid or not.
00:14:52.000Again, so this guy is a Muslim, Somalian.
00:14:55.000So we've brought them in through mass migration.
00:14:59.000And he doesn't care about, he's just, he's an instrument for the destruction of the West.
00:15:05.000This particular guy, he wants Islamic socialist control over Minneapolis.
00:15:09.000And we've seen this happen so many times.
00:15:11.000Mass immigration without assimilation is invasion.
00:16:20.000President Trump did a press conference this morning with the head of NATO to announce that there is a little bit of an arms deal.
00:16:27.000It's different than what Biden did, but let's walk through the basics first.
00:16:30.000Trump recently paused weapon shipments to Ukraine.
00:16:33.000Also said he'd only send defensive weapons to avoid escalating the war.
00:16:37.000But President Trump has apparently gotten very frustrated with Russia, believing they're not serious about reaching a peace deal.
00:16:43.000Let's start to get some tape about this, guys, as I go through some of the facts here, please.
00:16:47.000So today, in a press conference, along with NATO Secretary General Mark Rute, Trump said America will, quote, send the best military equipment to other NATO members, including offensive weapons, which they are free to transfer to Ukraine.
00:17:01.000Per President Trump, we are just being an arms dealer, selling to our allies who can do whatever.
00:17:07.000But it's clear this is meant to up the ante against Russia.
00:17:11.000President Trump has also announced a 50-day deadline for Russia to make peace or face 100% secondary tariffs, which apparently would be tariffs on nations that buy Russian oil.
00:17:23.000We've made a deal today where we are going to be sending them weapons and they're going to be paying for them.
00:17:30.000The United States will not be having any payment made.
00:17:35.000We are not buying it, but we will manufacture it and they're going to be paying for it.
00:17:40.000Our last meeting of a month ago was very successful in that they agreed to 5%, which is more than a trillion dollars a year, so they have a lot of money.
00:17:55.000Now, the situation is a little bit different than what Biden did, but I'm going to give you my thoughts, which is it's not a direct just weapon transfer to Ukraine.
00:18:05.000Now, we have to make sure this actually ends up happening, and I believe it will.
00:18:09.000So NATO or Europe is basically going to be an intermediary arms dealer with the United States that will buy the arms from the United States, hopefully generating some revenue, and then bringing them and sending them to Ukraine.
00:18:22.000Now, I want to see an end to this Ukrainian-Russian war.
00:18:26.000Personally, I don't want us to send any more arms to Ukraine.
00:18:29.000But at the same time, I want you, if you agree with me, in principle, what would you do if you were President Trump?
00:18:38.000He's in a very difficult position here.
00:18:41.000So let's walk through this because I've done a lot of thinking about this.
00:18:46.000So President Trump started by trying to warm up the relationship between Vladimir Putin and America.
00:18:52.000Good phone calls, kind of talking like more friendly.
00:18:57.000Remember, Joe Biden had that relationship dead.
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00:21:23.000So while activists blame fossil fuels for everything under the sun, the data tells a different story.
00:21:28.000Fossil fuels have made the earth a better, safer place for people to live.
00:21:32.000I'm Charlie Kirk, and I want you to know the facts, so don't be fossil-fooled.
00:22:12.000He's not feeling Russian angst, as we've explained on the prior show, because he's getting all of his troops in the rural parts of Russia, not from Moscow or St. Petersburg, where the Russian elites or oligarchs live.
00:22:24.000So it's basically very poor Chechnyans that are dying in the war and are just being used as cannon fodder for Vladimir Putin's agenda.
00:22:34.000And here is the bet that Vladimir Putin is making.
00:22:37.000He is betting that America does not have the stomach to keep financing or to keep sending American weaponry.
00:22:47.000Almost all of Vladimir Putin's political calculus is based around the first principle that America domestically is done with this and he's going to seize on that and he's going to take advantage of it.
00:23:02.000So President Donald Trump is saying, no, your first principle is incorrect.
00:24:45.000Now, here's the argument that some are making.
00:24:47.000They're saying this is a problem for NATO or Europe to be buying weapons because they want to bring Donald Trump and America into this conflict.
00:25:30.000Could I see this war going on longer than we would like it?
00:25:34.000But let me repeat, if you are in my philosophical camp, which I bet a lot of you are, and you're kind of fatigued with the war in Ukraine, you don't want to keep on financing it, you're kind of like, what are you guys even fighting for?
00:25:47.000Another 100 extra miles so another 500,000 people can die?
00:25:53.000And if your answer is that we're just going to pull out completely, you run a major geopolitical And political risk that Ukraine will no longer exist as a country.
00:26:24.000The argument, again, the whole kind of slippery slope argument that, oh, Vladimir Putin's going to march tanks through Warsaw, and then next thing you know, he'll be running Brussels.
00:27:38.000And so Putin basically is not taking what Trump was saying seriously because Putin was saying, now he didn't say it, but he was acting as if, well, Trump, you have no cards.
00:27:48.000Well, now Trump does have some cards, actually.
00:27:52.000And that's why he's doing the full compliment.
00:27:54.000Putin may be misreading the influence of some of the MAGA portion of the country that wants no involvement in Ukraine.
00:28:02.000That's why I think Putin's first principle is incorrect.
00:28:06.000And so Donald Trump says, oh, you think you understand where we're at?
00:28:10.000Well, now I'm doing a full compliment for Ukraine.
00:28:12.000Do you want to negotiate now, Mr. Putin?
00:28:14.000So I have all the confidence that President Donald Trump is going to keep us out of any sort of kinetic dragging us into.
00:29:02.000One of the greatest accomplishments from this administration that needs to be repeated on a daily basis is how we now have a hermetically sealed border and the invasion is over.
00:29:36.000That means 96% less people are coming.
00:29:39.000When 96% less people are coming, how many women are being raped by the cartels?
00:29:44.000How many children are dying making that journey?
00:29:46.000How many pounds of fentanyl isn't getting in the country to kill Americans?
00:29:51.000What they've been able to accomplish, what President Trump has been able to do at the southern border, he can golf for the next couple of years and still call this presidency a success to stop the invasion of foreigners into the United States of America.
00:30:03.000Now it's time also for mass deportations, and we are getting mass deportations.
00:30:08.000We had Christy Noam, we had Tom Holman.
00:30:10.000I spoke to them both publicly and privately.
00:30:13.000And it's like a commitment, an unspeakable resolve to the mass deportation agenda.
00:30:19.000It was an honor to have our good friend, Pete Hegseth, Secretary of Defense, SecDef.
00:31:28.000Have you sworn oath to defend the Constitution?
00:31:31.000And you know, we had dozens of young men, I think some young ladies, but mostly young men, that said they wanted to join the military because of Pete Hagseth's speech.
00:31:40.000They have hit their recruitment goals so early, they need to go to Congress to ask for more money to satisfy the recruitment goals.
00:31:47.000And under Biden, the recruitments were record lows.
00:31:50.000Recruitment, military recruitment is a poll test of national morale.
00:31:57.000When you are hitting your national recruitment numbers, when you are hitting your military recruitment numbers, it is a leading indicator for national revival, for national revitalization.
00:32:09.000We also hosted a debate, Josh Hammer versus Dave Smith, about Israel.
00:32:16.000But let's go to this one here, which also went very, very viral, I could tell you that, which is Tucker Carlson smashing the push for amnesty, Play Cut 249.
00:32:29.000What do I think about amnesty for farm workers?
00:32:31.000I think it's the most grotesque thing I've ever heard.
00:32:40.000We have like 60 million illegal aliens in the country.
00:32:44.000The country bears no resemblance to the country I grew up in, and it's not better, it's worse.
00:32:48.000So I'm not going to sit for another lecture from anybody telling me we need to import more people to write code or pick grapes or any other task.
00:35:20.000So what would you have to say to people that they saw a speaker they didn't like and then they try to blame me for having that speaker because they didn't like that speaker?
00:35:29.000And by the way, it goes all, it's all across, you know, it's on both every possible garden variety of that.
00:35:36.000How should we approach that question of platforming and of running an event like this?
00:35:41.000You have something to say about this running Breitbart for as long as you have.
00:35:45.000Please, I'd love your commentary on this.
00:35:46.000Yeah, I'm like the number one authority on this thing.
00:35:48.000So let me tell you, I can only speak for myself here, Charlie, but once you tell me I cannot have a person that I've chosen as editor-in-chief of Breitbart to platform on my platform, I have no other choice but to have them again, over and over again.
00:36:01.000So you're actually hurting your own cause by suggesting that you can't have X, Y, or Z person speak, especially if you do so in a public way, because then I don't have any other moves.
00:36:10.000My only move is, if we're playing chess here, is to platform them again and again and again.
00:36:15.000And so if you really want to get through to me, that's just not the way to do it.
00:36:18.000And yet I did see that a lot online, Charlie, telling you, well, we can never do this again.
00:36:24.000Your reaction is probably going to be, well, now they're just going to be the centerpiece of the whole thing because you can't tell me what to do.
00:36:30.000Charlie, you didn't do this for 10, 12 years.
00:36:34.000To have people chirping online to say that to try to control what you're doing and who you're platforming and which voices you want to feature.
00:36:50.000But overall, the vibe of the event was very exciting.
00:36:53.000And I think it is, we're a vibrant movement with a lot of super interesting, smart people who are constantly challenging each other to bring the heat.
00:37:01.000I watched the whole debate last night on the plane with Josh Hammer and Dave Smith.
00:37:39.000I've gotten hundreds of, hundreds of messages and thousands of comments thanking me because I moderated.
00:37:45.000I think I have very strong views on this stuff and I'm very much in Josh's view.
00:37:50.000I think Dave brought up some points on the neoconservatism stuff that I'm fully in alignment, but his anti-Trump stuff, obviously, I don't agree with.
00:37:57.000But what would you say when people say, well, you can't platform that person, even though it's in the scope of a debate?
00:38:04.000Yeah, I completely disagree with that.
00:38:06.000And I'll tell you why, because I learned so much about Dave from this because it's the most I've heard him speak.
00:38:12.000And to be honest with you, I didn't find his arguments overly persuasive, but I felt like that was actually comforting to me that I felt like as someone who's mostly pro-Israel, very much a Zionist, looking at this debate, I did not feel overly intimidated, but I got to understand where he's coming from.
00:38:28.000I'm very empathetic and sympathetic to someone who's coming from the sort of Ron Paul wing where Ron Paul has been vindicated again and again over the years.
00:38:35.000And if that's sort of your baseline, and you're just going to assume that basically I'm taking that, he's my North Star, and then I'm going to pick and choose from there.
00:38:43.000It helps me understand where people are coming from.
00:38:45.000How am I going to understand where he's coming from unless, if I'm not one to seek out his content, unless someone like you is moderating a forum like this?
00:38:52.000It just, it makes perfect sense to me.
00:38:54.000And the key to media, the key to getting people's attention right now is you have to do something unique.
00:39:35.000The way I moderate it, though, because I watch a lot of debates and I participate in a lot of debates, what ends up happening is debater A and debated B start talking past each other and you end up discussing a nuanced portion of the rabbit hole that nobody in the audience cares about.
00:39:50.000So they were talking about like something in like a prime minister of Israel in 2002.
00:39:54.000I'm like, guys, this is no one knows what you are talking about, okay?
00:40:38.000So if you want to go back into my history in the conservative movement, I've been, I think, I don't think it's overly, I know it's self-praise, but I've been, I think, had some of the most longevity and effectiveness in the conservative movement over the last few.
00:40:53.000It all started when I was at UC Berkeley, and I thought I was a libertarian.
00:40:56.000But at UC Berkeley, there's only one conservative club, the College Republicans.
00:41:00.000And I just showed up because I thought, I think I'm a political guy.
00:41:36.000And look, I have a lot of sympathy for the Ron Paul stuff.
00:41:37.000There's so much stuff that Ron Paul said that what it did is it made me at least reconsider certain foreign policy doctrine and dogma and definitely made me less neoconservative.
00:41:46.000But I don't agree with everything that Ron Paul said to legalize all drugs.
00:42:18.000It's self-evident to use a Jeffersonian phrase.
00:42:21.000If you're a self-evidently bad faith actor, you're not going to get a platform from me or our organization.
00:42:28.000Yeah, here's the thing that I would say to you in private trailer, I'll try to say it exactly the same in public as I would say it in private.
00:42:33.000A lot of your power, if not all of your power, is because you've built a lot of credibility within conservative politics, which is legitimate power.
00:42:41.000And that when you weigh in on something politically, when you're leading your herd somewhere politically, it makes a difference.
00:42:46.000And you don't want to waste that for just for a few extra clicks.
00:42:52.000And we are in a media economy where attention-seeking behavior is rewarded right now.
00:42:57.000Whether it's good or bad attention, it is rewarded in the marketplace, in this sort of podcast marketplace that we're in.
00:43:04.000And you have to pay attention to people who, if they're tipping a little bit into the, I'm just trying to get attention and clicks at the expense of substantive arguments, at the expense of seeking out truth and what is productive for the movement, not just over the next three weeks, but over the next 30 years, then I feel like it's probably not worth the time.
00:43:23.000But that said, you can always check yourself by trying something new.
00:43:27.000And I always remind myself of this at Breitbart News.
00:43:29.000If I feel like I'm too set my ways, I'll try to do something different just in order to try to challenge myself and see what it's like and to test waters.
00:43:37.000You should feel emboldened to make mistakes even.
00:43:40.000But overall, if you feel like you could be eroding some of the trust people have built in you politically, then I feel like you think about.
00:43:48.000Again, this is for me to decide because I'm in charge.
00:43:50.000And yeah, they could say whatever they want.
00:43:54.000Are you seeking to be a statesman or a philosopher or are you a performer or an actor?
00:43:59.000Which in the ancient virtues were the lowest of all the ancient virtues.
00:44:02.000So again, if we have the appearance over lots of period of time that you're just like trying to basically be a court jester and you're a bad faith person to just try to get clicks and there's not deeply held beliefs or it can be explained with prudence or wisdom or at least to have some sort of admission or reconciliation towards wisdom, then, you know, you're not going to come on stage.
00:44:24.000Criticizing is hard, building is hard, coalitions are hard, but Sudan Action Summit was a major success.
00:44:32.000Charlie Kirk here, crime is skyrocketing.
00:44:34.000You may already own a firearm, but before you face the financial and emotional weight of pulling the trigger, consider Burna.
00:44:40.000Burna's less lethal launchers fire tear gas and kinetic rounds designed to incapacitate attackers for up to 40 minutes, giving you time to escape and call for help without deadly consequences.
00:46:02.000And one of the reasons why is because they're leaving these online lives and they don't get that physical interaction.
00:46:08.000I mean, it just seeing people, it's such a pleasure for them to see the people who are their favorite characters in the, because this is Charlie, we know we're witnessing the greatest movie of all time, the Trump era of American politics.
00:46:30.000So it's really important for them to do this.
00:46:32.000And I'm glad that you keep getting these great rosters of speakers.
00:46:36.000But they're also so much smarter than, I mean, I'm not exactly an old guy, but when I was on the campuses 20 years ago, 18 years ago, whatever it was, I didn't have a fraction of the information as the normal person does who's just going around these campuses because of the internet, because of the access to information.
00:46:50.000So these are incredibly smart people and they're very moldable.
00:46:54.000And so, but they have to be respected too, because they like agency, they like dignity.
00:46:59.000So, I mean, it really is terrific to get to understand what's important to them and what interests them and what draws them into the political fray.
00:47:39.000I think all that is said has needed to be said this last week.
00:47:43.000And it's just repeating the same thing over and over again.
00:47:45.000But what else, what was like the most shocking thing that you wish an average older conservative could learn from what you saw at the event or the conference?
00:47:53.000Yeah, but I think the Epstein thing, what's important about it that's worth mentioning is that the transparency thing is a big deal and authenticity and feeling like you can trust the government is a big deal and overpromising and under delivering is going to affect newer voters to the coalition.
00:48:10.000And I'll tell you, Charlie, for my audience, I had put a lot of cold water that we were ever going to get great answers on Epstein.
00:48:17.000I figured they were either too complicated to release and they could really interfere with the lives of innocent people, or it wasn't as bad as people thought.
00:48:28.000I mean, we knew it was bad, obviously, but that stuff was out there.
00:48:31.000So I was always very skeptical we'd get much, but it's the overpromising from certain members of the administration that things were going to come out.
00:49:02.000And I do think there is a deeper concern that the system is rigged to favor a few people, the very, very top.
00:49:08.000And that is something that the right is not, I don't think we're grappling with that.
00:49:13.000And you brought this up as much as anyone, Charlie, that if we don't figure out a way to message on this issue, we run the risk of seeing the Mamdanis rise who have terrible ideas, but you say it with a smiley face and maybe you say it persuasively, and it could get through to some low-information people.
00:49:29.000And if we do not have more young people be able to own homes and stop renting, political radicalism will rise.
00:49:37.000Political radicalism will set in to the nation and the country.
00:49:50.000Yeah, this is exactly what we thought we were getting when we had heard that this was the best case scenario in terms of people who think the Biden administration was basically illegitimate.
00:50:02.000When you see that he did not approve many of the names pardoned with the auto pen, this is where the legal apparatus, if worked effectively, can start unraveling parts of his administration.
00:50:12.000Because if we can determine that was in fact illegal, and it should be, the president's supposed to sign this stuff, whoever came with his auto pen, it is for certain things, for certain things, maybe they'll determine it was okay.
00:50:23.000But for certain things, this is absolutely illegitimate.
00:50:26.000This could open up some of those investigations to try to get justice for President Trump and for the American people who got railroaded by this guy.
00:50:33.000So I'm not surprised, but I'm very heartened that we now have attack vectors in terms of trying to unravel some of the horrible stuff Biden did.
00:51:35.000Look, it's a very emotional topic and emotions run high there, but there were a lot of substantive points on both sides.
00:51:41.000One of the things that I wanted to do, and now that we've already seen what happened, I think it's very clear in retrospect that it was a deliberate, one of many deliberate tactics on my end to try to make sure that the people there understand and the audience watching at home and around the world, that MAGA and America first and the Trump doctrine of foreign policy Simply does not mean what libertarian isolationists like Dave Smith think that it means or what they think it ought to mean.
00:52:06.000The Trump doctrine of foreign policy is a nationalist, realist foreign policy.
00:52:10.000It is a third-way foreign policy between the equally absurd extremes of neoconservatism on the one end and isolationism on the other end.
00:52:18.000And Charlie, that was a theme that I tried to hit over and over and over again through the course of this debate.
00:52:35.000And so I want to play some pieces of tape, but I want to congratulate both you and Dave.
00:52:39.000Usually on Sunday, the rule at works, the rule at Turning Point USA events is Sunday, we'll be lucky to have like one-third of the room filled.
00:53:56.000Josh, I think that was an important point.
00:53:59.000Dave agreed, and it really kind of fenced in where this is what I think good faith argumentation versus kind of the slop that we see emerge far too often online.
00:54:10.000Yeah, and this is the critical distinction.
00:54:12.000Look, there are so many parts of U.S.-Israel relations, of U.S. involvement in the Middle East more generally, U.S. involvement in the 12-day war against Iran.
00:54:22.000I think all of this is totally fair game.
00:54:24.000What should the level of U.S. aid to Israel, what should it be?
00:54:29.000Dave and I actually agree that aid should be phased out.
00:54:32.000We disagree on the timeframe, but we broadly agree that U.S. aid to Israel ends up being something of a mutual bear hug that, in my judgment, actually ends up undermining both the United States and Israel in the mid to long term.
00:54:43.000So there was actually no small amount of agreement when you kind of go between the lines there.
00:54:49.000But this clip that we just saw, Charlie, is so important.
00:54:51.000And throughout your entire career, you've just been such a stalwart friend of the Jewish people, defender of the Jewish people.
00:54:56.000Charlie, you and I are friends, we talk a lot offline.
00:54:58.000And, you know, I've told you that what you go through on college campuses, when you have these crazy people that have gone down these rabbit holes on social media that are talking to you, Charlie Kirk, a young evangelical Christian about what is in the Talmud, first of all, my heart breaks that this is where we are in the year 2025, that a young conservative Christian is being asked to defend the Talmud.
00:55:23.000On its face, it is just totally absurd.
00:55:25.000But more importantly, you do an amazing job with it, an absolutely amazing job of defending the dignity of the Jewish people, the dignity of the Jewish state of Israel there.
00:55:33.000So God bless you and thank you for all you've done throughout your career to defend the Jewish people and the Jewish state.
00:55:37.000I think the crowd and everyone watching at home saw that yet again yesterday.
00:56:04.000So first of all, this actually was not my first time debating Dave Smith, Charlie.
00:56:08.000I actually debated him back in February at Princeton University in New Jersey as part of the Steamboat Institute's Campus Liberty Tour, I think is the exact name for that tour.
00:56:16.000So this is my second time in just six months debating him.
00:56:18.000So if people are blaming Charlie Kirk and Turning Point USA for throwing Dave Smith into a debate, then they probably have other organizations to blame as well.
00:56:27.000Look, Dave Smith, for better or for worse, your mileage may vary.
00:56:30.000I obviously am not a fan to put a mileage of what the guy says.
00:56:34.000I think a lot of it is egregiously wrong to the point at times of just being utterly offensively wrong.
00:56:39.000But he has a platform and people, especially a lot of younger people, really, really, really tend to do glamant to what he says and to take what he says seriously.
00:56:48.000And to the extent that we're debating legitimate substantive issues, what is the nature of U.S.-Israel relations?
00:56:54.000What should U.S.-Israel relations look like?
00:56:56.000I think that is entirely, legitimately fair game.
00:56:58.000Now, Charlie, it would have been very different if we had gone there on that stage and you, as the moderator, had said, okay, you know, Josh and Dave, why don't you debate whether Israel is a Nazi enterprise committing a Nazi-esque holocaust in Gaza, God forbid?
00:57:12.000Or let's debate whether Israel is an apartheid state.
00:57:14.000I mean, you know, there are some things that I think definitely should not be subject to a legitimate debate, especially at a high-profile, highly influential conference like TPUSA's Student Action Summit.
00:57:24.000But that's not what we did on stage yesterday, and I'm really just quite pleased with how it went.
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00:58:26.000I want to play one more piece of tape here, but now I want to get, let's just play this here.
00:58:30.000This is towards the end, and the agreements, and let's just go through.
00:58:35.000You and Dave both agreed on a sunsetting of aid to Israel, that the United States should decouple.
00:58:42.000And i've said this for a while by the way bibi netanyahu has also said this that if israel is betting on the domestic support of the american body politic that is a risky support a risky bet things can change over time let's go to the agreements let's go to cut 254.
00:59:02.000i want to just summarize this was time well spent both dave and josh agree on some plan to wind down u.s-israel aid that was an agreement correct my the timeline you could debate about number two they both say every human is made in the image of god and we should not trivialize when you know people are killed also i think we all agreed october 7th was awful it was terrible and it should be talked about more and it needs to be emphasized we also agree this jew hate stuff has no place in public discourse period end of story and i don't like it it's
00:59:32.000disgusting, and we need to call it out when we see it.
00:59:34.000And finally, I think the fifth is that I hope we demonstrated, and both our participants got a little lively at times, that this is a debate worth having, that it's better to have this out in the open than silence people and censor them and call them names.
00:59:50.000Instead, this is how we solve our problems.
00:59:52.000Give it up for Josh and Dave one last time, everybody.
00:59:57.000So, you know, we talked a little bit about about about the a charlie but i'll just kind of reiterate my my
01:00:02.000basic point here which is that u.s aid to israel i've been criticizing this arrangement for the past decade and in fact a pack first of all apac is not the boogeyman that a lot of people think that it is we had this conversation on stage yesterday they simply are not anywhere close to as powerful as i think a lot of people think that they are the easiest way to know that is that apac failed to stop barack obama's nuclear deal back in 2015 it was their number one priority of the entire decade and they failed but none nonetheless despite that point i'm not personally a fan of them because they exist
01:00:32.000effectively in large part to get these large-scale and annual aid appropriations roughly 3.8 billion dollars in the most recent aid package every year from the u.s to israel now in my opinion that aid ends up being harmful to both countries from the from the united states' perspective it does end up being a crony capitalist bit of the military industrial complex that president dwight eisenhower famously warned about in his farewell address you end up essentially subsidizing Boeing North or Grumman,
01:01:00.000very large fat cat defense contractors, people, you know, the kind of companies that Lindsey Graham lobbies for.
01:01:05.000You frankly don't need any more money flowing into their coffers.
01:01:08.000But from Israel's perspective, you know, they should understand, I think, Israel, that the more that they are reliant on foreign aid, the more that you embolden other countries that are not, in this case, Israel, to essentially wag a finger and know you can't do XYZ thing or else we're going to cut off your aid.
01:01:24.000We saw that time and time again from the Biden administration in particular after October 7th.
01:01:28.000And if you actually believe in Zionism, Charlie, Zionism is this word that has been tarred and feathered by the jihadis, the Kafiya-clad radicals on campuses.
01:01:36.000Zionism is a very simple and actually beautiful concept.
01:01:39.000It is the notion rooted, I would argue, in the book of Genesis, no less, that the Jewish people have a God-given ancestral biblical right to their homeland.
01:01:49.000So if you believe with that very simple rudimentary proposition, it stands to reason that the Jewish people actually should determine that and that they should not be reliant on anyone ultimately other than themselves to the extent possible there.
01:02:01.000So I think that this aid arrangement ends up undermining both countries' interests in the mid to long term.
01:02:05.000Again, I think Dave and I disagree very much on the timeframe.
01:02:09.000I wouldn't cut that off, God forbid, in the middle of an active seven-front war, the likes of which Israel has been facing since October 7th.
01:02:15.000But I definitely think that in the mid to long term, it would be a good idea for both countries.
01:02:19.000And just really briefly on the Genesis 127 point, Charlie, in my book, Israel and Civilization, I talk about how Genesis chapter 1, verse 27, the divine image imperative, Betsel Melachim, we would say in the Hebrew, a Mago Dei, for our Catholic friends in the Latin, this is the foundational ethical, moral imperative of all of Western civilization, literally everything.
01:02:40.000In fact, I argue that Thomas Jefferson never would have been able to write the words that he wrote in the Declaration of Independence.
01:02:46.000We hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal.
01:02:51.000The 14th Amendment's sweeping claim of equal protection in Section 1, the 14th Amendment, the Equal Protection Clause, where is that coming from?
01:02:57.000Martin Luther King's speech in Washington, the Civil Rights Act in 1964, all these sweeping moral assertions of genuine human equality in the American legal and moral order, it has its root.
01:03:09.000That root is the Hebrew Bible, and that root is Genesis 127.
01:03:12.000So yes, we obviously all care about the dignity and the humanity of every single human being across the world.
01:03:18.000And it's very important, no matter what conflict we're discussing, whether it's Gaza, whether it's the Yemeni civil war or anything there.
01:03:24.000And I do think it's curious, by the way, that a lot of people tend to assert this concern when it comes just to Gaza, but tend to be a little silenced when it comes to Yemen or Syria or Boko Haram in Nigeria and so forth.
01:03:35.000So I will call them out for some hypocrisy there, but I try to be consistent in trying to believe in Genesis 1.27, what that means for all conflicts all throughout the world.
01:03:43.000Josh, what points do you wish you would have made or that you would have made more completely had you had more time?
01:03:48.000Charlie, I would have liked to have a little more time.
01:03:52.000This is just the nature of how these debates go.
01:03:54.000But I would have liked to have taken a little more time to explain the proactive humanitarian measures that the Israeli military takes in Gaza to prevent civilian casualties.
01:04:05.000There was a lot of exchange, a lot of accusations.
01:04:08.000Dave Smith and people who agree with Dave Smith tend to oftentimes accuse Israel of doing terrible things, of slaughtering babies, of indiscriminately just opening fire.
01:04:17.000Now, on the debate, which I agree everyone should go ahead and check out the debate, I did talk a little bit about how we actually have some numbers when it comes to civilian to combatant death ratio, 1 to 1.5, as crunched by John Spencer, the head of urban warfare studies at West Point, a number that he says is the lowest in the entire history of recorded urban warfare, literally ever.
01:04:38.000But I would have liked to explain a little bit more about how the IDF, going back at least as far as the 2014 war in Gaza, arguably as far back, I think maybe as even the prior conflict 2012, they will literally drop leaflets out of the sky onto buildings.
01:04:52.000They will individually call up apartment buildings and stores and houses and say there is going to be a military operation here because there Is a Hamas facility headquartered, as the case may be, in the mosque where you are, or in the housing area where you are there.
01:05:06.000So, we're going to have to take care of this.
01:05:08.000So, you have 30, 60 minutes, two hours, four hours, whatever it is, to basically get the heck out of Dodge.
01:05:16.000So, look, in many ways, Israel is the IDF, along with the U.S. Army, is the most moral warfighting machine in the modern history of the world.
01:05:23.000So, these continued allegations of just effectively just trying to turn the old blood libel smear and then turn it on the Jewish military when it comes to Gaza is really just a frankly despicable lie.
01:05:34.000And I would have liked to have taken a little more time to explain why it simply is not the case there.
01:05:39.000Because again, they go above and beyond Charlie.
01:05:42.000Sometimes, frankly, even some folks in the U.S. military have looked at what Israel does, and I've heard some veterans say, wow, I mean, we would never do such a thing there.
01:05:49.000So, you know, we complain a lot about how Barack Obama put overly restrictive rules of engagement on our own boys here in the U.S. military.
01:05:55.000Israel goes so far, arguably one might even argue, but perhaps at times too far to impose ultra, ultra, ultra strict rules of engagement on their own forces, all trying to basically appease these nefarious and scandalous allegations of indiscriminately slaughtering children, none of which is even remotely true.
01:06:12.000In closing here, Josh, what would you say is the takeaway of how young people are viewing this issue and what you maybe learned throughout the debate on a better way to keep framing it to win over younger people?
01:06:25.000Charlie, look, you and I are in our 30s.
01:06:33.000And we grew up in the context and in the immediate aftermath of the failed regime change, moralistic boondoggles in Iraq and Afghanistan.
01:06:41.000And for younger millennials and Gen Z who grew up in this context, they rightfully are skeptical when it comes to U.S. military involvement overseas.
01:06:51.000I think that Operation Midnight Hammer, Trump's 12-day war, the 37-hour B-2 bomber runs in Iran, could potentially be an inflection point in showing to young people that not every use of American military force.
01:07:02.000Trump did the same thing with Qasem Suleimani and Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the head of ISIS, by the way, back during his first term.
01:07:08.000I think he has shown yet again with this extraordinarily successful surgical strike in Iran, a strike, by the way, that would not have been possible were it not for the IDF essentially neutralizing the Iranian air control and missile launchers and all that there.
01:07:21.000But with this strike, I think that Donald Trump has highlighted for young people for maybe the first time in their lives, what a truly surgical strike, nationalist realists, bomb the crap out of our enemies who want to kill us and then get the heck out, what that kind of foreign policy can actually look like.
01:07:36.000Charlie, it is the Trump doctrine in action, as I've been arguing for the past month.
01:07:40.000And I'm just proud to call this man commander-in-chief because, again, he fulfilled multiple campaign promises with one strike of the blow.
01:07:48.000He has set Iran's nuclear ambitions back by many years on the one hand.
01:07:52.000And two, he did so without starting a war, without a single American casualty.
01:07:56.000Check out the Josh Hammer show and check out newsweek.com.