The Charlie Kirk Show - 'I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be An Atheist' with Apologist Frank Turek LIVE from Dream City Church

00:00:00.000 Hey everybody, happy Sunday.

00:00:01.000 No advertisers in this episode.

00:00:03.000 It's brought to you by TPUSA Faith or TPUSA.com.

00:00:06.000 Hope to see all of you at SAS.

00:00:08.000 It's my conversation with Frank Turek.

00:00:10.000 I don't have enough faith to be an atheist, and we take questions from the audience.

00:00:13.000 This should strengthen your faith.

00:00:14.000 If you're down and depressed and anxious and you don't know if you believe in God, I think this episode will fire you up.

00:00:19.000 I think you'll learn a lot.

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00:01:44.000 Here we go.

00:01:46.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:01:48.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

00:01:50.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk Charlie Kirk's running the White House.

00:01:55.000 Folks, I want to thank Charlie.

00:01:58.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:01:59.000 His spirit, his love of this country.

00:02:00.000 He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created.

00:02:06.000 Turning Point USA.

00:02:07.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

00:02:16.000 That's why we are here.

00:02:19.000 Thank you everybody, thank you boy.

00:02:21.000 What an amazing presentation that was, by the way, wasn't that incredible?

00:02:25.000 That was so special and um, i'm sure you're, you're with me.

00:02:29.000 I was getting emotional throughout that and as I was watching that, I had actually kind of a two emotions going on at once.

00:02:37.000 I was moved by the presentation and emotional, and I think some of you also were kind of getting angry that our beautiful country is being destroyed in front of our very eyes.

00:02:47.000 Right, I mean that just being very honest with you is just hard to kind of that tension of emotions, because what a gift we've been given from the lord honestly to live in this country um, and the greatest nation ever to exist in the history of the world, and we're going to change it.

00:03:00.000 That's why we're here tonight.

00:03:01.000 We're going to, we're going to take it back and we're going to make some appropriate changes.

00:03:05.000 So I want to, I want to touch on a couple things.

00:03:08.000 Um, first of all, of course, Dream CITY Schools.

00:03:10.000 Check out Turning Point Dream CITY Schools, a Turning Point Academy.

00:03:14.000 Check it out.

00:03:15.000 Now enrolling students for the fall.

00:03:16.000 Some super exciting updates that will be coming.

00:03:19.000 In fact, we're about to announce two more branches of Turning Point Academies coming in hopefully in the next days and weeks, including homeschool curriculum, pod schooling curriculum, as well as some very exciting new programming that will be done to be able to make it easier for parents to be able to no longer have an excuse.

00:03:40.000 Our vision for Turning Point Academy nationwide is for parents to no longer say, you know what, I don't like my local government school, but there's no option.

00:03:49.000 We want to make sure that the options are always in front of every parent that wants to be able to pull their kid out of government schools.

00:03:55.000 That is our vision for what we're doing at Turning Point Academy.

00:03:59.000 And Angel beat me to it, but what an incredible last month when it comes to the Supreme Court.

00:04:07.000 We'll talk about this tonight with Frank, but in this kind of news cycle we live in where everything seems so overwhelmingly negative, wasn't it remarkable to finally see the Supreme Court do something courageous and bold and constitutional as well, by the way?

00:04:27.000 And I would be remiss if I did not mention the people who helped make that possible.

00:04:32.000 You see, the Supreme Court is a lagging indicator, it's not a leading indicator.

00:04:38.000 So the Supreme Court usually bears fruit of fights that happened generations ago.

00:04:44.000 So these are judges that were put in place by prior administrations or justices because of past elections or arguments that, quite honestly, were won or lost before a lot of us were engaged in the fight.

00:04:56.000 And so that decision was the work of 40 or 50 years of prayer and fasting from churches like this one, from leaders like Pastor Tommy, from leaders like Billy Graham, leaders like Rush Limbaugh, leaders like Antonin Scalia.

00:05:13.000 And I think it would be a mistake not to mention the multi-generations of warriors like Phyllis Schlafly, who went in the trenches and said, you know what?

00:05:22.000 This decision can be overturned.

00:05:25.000 And we must recognize that it didn't happen overnight.

00:05:28.000 How often have we said that here at Freedom Night throughout the last year?

00:05:32.000 Big and bold and important things are going to take sometimes years to get done.

00:05:37.000 But guess what?

00:05:38.000 Rush Limbaugh and Billy Graham are smiling from heaven saying, I told you guys to keep fighting for that.

00:05:43.000 And there's so many things that we must unpack in this.

00:05:48.000 And this shows how incredible the church that Dream City is because Dream City passed what I kind of put forward as the two-part test of the Roe versus Wade reversal.

00:05:58.000 So the first one is, did your pastor mention it happened?

00:06:03.000 That's the first thing, right?

00:06:05.000 Most did not.

00:06:07.000 Most pastors just acted as if it was just another day at church.

00:06:12.000 Or they said, you know, I know this is a very difficult issue.

00:06:15.000 Sorry, your pastor, it's not a difficult issue, okay?

00:06:18.000 Maybe if you were a secular humanist running some sort of philosophy class at a local university, it's a difficult issue, not difficult for a pastor, right?

00:06:26.000 We're made in the image of God.

00:06:28.000 Life is sacred.

00:06:29.000 It needs to be protected, period.

00:06:30.000 Every pastor needs to say it.

00:06:33.000 And so that's the, so there were a lot of pastors that passed the first part, but the second part is equally as important, which is we now need to step up and recognize and realize those of us that have been advocating for an end to abortion in America need to expand our services, our charities, our nonprofits like the Dream Center to be able to equip and empower and support every woman in America that is now going to be bringing life into this world.

00:07:00.000 It's not on us because look, the other side, they're going to be saying the argument they always make is: we need abortion because it's too expensive.

00:07:07.000 We need abortion because it's too costly. 1.00

00:07:09.000 We need abortion because there's no options. 1.00

00:07:10.000 And that's one of the reasons why we partnered with Choices here in Arizona, amazing organization, by the way.

00:07:16.000 And so now it's incumbent on us as Christians to step up to the plate to support these charities even more with our time and our treasure and our resources and our prayer, because there is going to be an overwhelming amount of first-time mothers.

00:07:31.000 And by the way, we know that just because in Texas, when the six-week abortion ban went into place, abortions went down by 70 to 80%.

00:07:40.000 Now, mind you, this was always an argument that the abortionists made.

00:07:44.000 They said, you can outlaw abortion, but it's not going to decrease abortions.

00:07:46.000 It's just a lie.

00:07:48.000 Actually, when you outlaw things, people reconsider it.

00:07:51.000 It's like a really weird thing, right?

00:07:52.000 I know.

00:07:53.000 When it's not legal, people say, well, maybe it's illegal for a reason, or maybe do I really want to do this?

00:07:58.000 And look, some people are going to be motivated to go across state lines.

00:08:02.000 That's still going to be legal in our country for the time being.

00:08:05.000 They'll go to New Mexico or California.

00:08:07.000 But some people will reconsider it.

00:08:08.000 And they'll say, maybe I don't want to do this.

00:08:10.000 Maybe I'll get an ultrasound.

00:08:12.000 Maybe I'm going to hear a heartbeat.

00:08:13.000 And what an amazing opportunity for the church to say welcome, to say that we're here to support you.

00:08:20.000 We're here to help you.

00:08:21.000 Judgment-free zone.

00:08:22.000 We're not going to condemn you.

00:08:24.000 We're not going to speak harshly to you.

00:08:25.000 I think it's one of the greatest evangelist opportunities the church has ever had to be able to support the people that need this support.

00:08:34.000 And so I just want to encourage us to lean into that moment.

00:08:37.000 And so that's the two-step test in Dream City passed both of them.

00:08:40.000 I was watching very carefully.

00:08:41.000 You could see a lot, some of these wokey pastors, right?

00:08:46.000 They would tweet stuff out that was just so amazing.

00:08:49.000 And I won't say any names.

00:08:50.000 I promise I won't.

00:08:51.000 But they were like, you know, nowhere in the Bible does it say abortion is wrong.

00:08:56.000 Like, yeah, nowhere in the Bible does it say dropping an atom bomb on Berlin is wrong, but you kind of deduct that from thou shalt not murder, right?

00:09:04.000 I mean, that's probably pretty obvious, or I knew you before you were in the womb, or very basic things.

00:09:08.000 And basically, what it comes down to is courage.

00:09:11.000 And this issue has always made some people cowardly, that we're going to offend others, that we are not going to be able to win people over.

00:09:21.000 And in fact, the data is showing the opposite.

00:09:23.000 The data is actually showing this nation is becoming more pro-life.

00:09:27.000 That it's actually showing that the more we talk about this issue, the more converts we actually make.

00:09:34.000 And so the only argument they ever had was, my body, my choice.

00:09:39.000 After the vaccine mandate thing, I don't take them seriously anymore.

00:09:42.000 I just, I'm sorry, we're done.

00:09:47.000 Like the whole bodily, and by the way, it's a silly argument.

00:09:50.000 It's not your body, okay?

00:09:51.000 It's somebody else's body, separate DNA, not your choice.

00:09:54.000 But still, that was the one kind of compelling nature of the whole thing.

00:09:58.000 And I think we saw in the reaction, which was so amazing and a compliment to all of you and an encouragement that I think more victories are going to come in the years and decades to come, is that the hours after the decision of the reversal, we won the narrative war.

00:10:15.000 I totally anticipated us losing the narrative war, by the way.

00:10:18.000 But they started to put people on television saying, you know why we need abortion?

00:10:21.000 Because special needs kids are hard to raise.

00:10:23.000 Literally, Ana Navarro goes on CNN and saying that.

00:10:26.000 Or they say, you know what, we need less people on earth.

00:10:29.000 Really?

00:10:30.000 And so they just kind of completely imploded.

00:10:32.000 And it's a very interesting issue because it mixes biology, science, morality, metaphysics, emotion.

00:10:42.000 And so I just want to just encourage everybody, because there will be some people that say, Charlie, stop talking about this issue.

00:10:47.000 It's a losing issue.

00:10:49.000 First of all, who cares?

00:10:50.000 It's right or wrong.

00:10:51.000 I don't take a popularity test of that.

00:10:54.000 But even if that's actually not true, though, that's the point, is that it happens to be the lie of the enemy, where the nation is now more pro-life than ever before.

00:11:04.000 The more people learn about it, the more people say, you know what, this is wrong and we have to put an end to it.

00:11:10.000 And so, if it was not for active churches like Dream City, it's very important.

00:11:15.000 If it was not for active churches like Dream City throughout the years, this never would have got done.

00:11:19.000 But also, we need to make sure we understand it.

00:11:22.000 If it wasn't for somebody else, this would not have got done.

00:11:25.000 And I know everyone has different opinions of this individual, but this is a fact, and you don't have to like what I'm about to say.

00:11:30.000 Okay, you don't have to like it, but if you like babies and you like the unborn, then this is a fact.

00:11:35.000 That, um, how do I put this?

00:11:37.000 Someone who lived a colorful life from New York City, who was once pro-choice himself, who once supported Planned Parenthood, God had a call on his life for maybe just one or two or three reasons.

00:11:48.000 But to go down a golden escalator and win an election, he was not supposed to win.

00:11:53.000 And again, you don't have to like the guy.

00:11:56.000 I'm not saying you have to like it.

00:11:57.000 It's a fact of life that God can use anybody for any reason.

00:12:01.000 And he did a highly suspicious thing.

00:12:03.000 He actually did what he said he was going to do.

00:12:05.000 I know we're not used to that.

00:12:07.000 Makes us all very freaked out, right?

00:12:10.000 And we got Amy Coney Barrett, Neil Gorsuch, and Brett Kavanaugh.

00:12:13.000 And I want to say, Kavanaugh's ruling on immigration was somewhat disappointing, but if you survive an assassination attempt on your family and you still rule correctly on Roe v. Wade, that's worthy of appreciation and applause.

00:12:27.000 It really is.

00:12:28.000 That's courage.

00:12:29.000 So it's a big moment for the church.

00:12:32.000 We must now step into this and help the people that need our help and see this as a great opportunity.

00:12:37.000 I'm going to tell you about our guest tonight.

00:12:39.000 So I first became aware of our guest when I was in a hotel room in Spokane, Washington.

00:12:45.000 We were talking about Spokane earlier.

00:12:46.000 I just got done speaking at Washington State University in Pullman, which is far, not far, but it's a ways from Spokane.

00:12:54.000 And I turned on local television, and there was this incredibly articulate presenter talking about how atheism is actually irrational, talking about the case for the resurrection.

00:13:04.000 I'd never heard of any of this before.

00:13:06.000 And I said, who is this guy?

00:13:07.000 So I started to look up his YouTube videos.

00:13:09.000 I was so moved by it.

00:13:11.000 And actually, his entire podcast and his show is called, I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist.

00:13:16.000 In fact, that's the name of his book, I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist.

00:13:20.000 And so he does what I do, but just a little bit differently.

00:13:24.000 He goes to college campuses and takes questions all about Christianity, all about atheism.

00:13:29.000 And he is one of the most gifted and charismatic apologists of our time, someone who makes the case for Christianity.

00:13:36.000 He also has a new book out called Hollywood Heroes, which is terrific.

00:13:40.000 I'm actually going to have Frank on our show tomorrow to talk about this on our radio program and our podcast.

00:13:45.000 And I've got to know Frank over the last year, year and a half, pretty well.

00:13:49.000 And we trade texts and have dinners every so often and do just kind of are there for one another, and I deeply appreciate it. 0.95

00:13:56.000 But I think you're going to be really moved by the rational case for Christianity.

00:14:00.000 And this is something that we don't always present, which is the archaeological evidence, the rational evidence, the natural law evidence of how, if you look at things, even supporting the Bible, that it confirms biblical truths themselves.

00:14:14.000 So please join me in welcoming the incredible Frank Turek.

00:14:21.000 Charlie Kirk, ladies and gentlemen, right here, Charlie Kirk.

00:14:24.000 So talk about articulate, huh?

00:14:27.000 Right here.

00:14:28.000 Very kind.

00:14:29.000 So Frank, welcome.

00:14:30.000 We've been talking for a while to get you out here.

00:14:33.000 I'm so glad it worked.

00:14:34.000 Sorry about the weather, but it's actually a cool day today.

00:14:36.000 So Frank, let me play devil's advocate.

00:14:41.000 It is reasonable and rational to be an atheist.

00:14:43.000 There's no evidence for God.

00:14:45.000 What do you mean you have no faith to be an atheist?

00:14:47.000 Faith is for you religious people.

00:14:50.000 Well, first of all, you're wrong.

00:14:55.000 The atheists are now saying things like, I just lack a belief in God.

00:15:00.000 Have you heard this yet?

00:15:01.000 When atheists will say, I lack a belief in God, that's their new way of saying that you have faith and I don't.

00:15:08.000 And I simply ask them this question: Here's a proposition: God exists.

00:15:12.000 Do you agree with that proposition?

00:15:15.000 And if you do, then you're a theist.

00:15:17.000 Do you disagree with that proposition?

00:15:19.000 In that case, you're an atheist.

00:15:21.000 Or don't you know you're an agnostic? 0.74

00:15:23.000 You know what they always say?

00:15:24.000 I don't know.

00:15:24.000 I said, What's all this lack of belief stuff?

00:15:27.000 You just don't know whether there's a God or not.

00:15:29.000 I think there's evidence for God.

00:15:30.000 Can we go into some of that?

00:15:31.000 So, so, yeah, let's get into that, Frank.

00:15:33.000 What evidence could there possibly be for God?

00:15:36.000 People say, I've never seen God, I can't touch God.

00:15:39.000 What evidence could there possibly be?

00:15:42.000 If someone ever asked you, why do you know that God exists?

00:15:44.000 I think you ought to say this: I know God by his effects.

00:15:48.000 In other words, there are effects of God everywhere.

00:15:51.000 And what we're doing, just like a scientist does when they're trying to figure out what particular cause caused a particular effect, they're reasoning from effect back to cause.

00:16:01.000 So, let's go through a few effects.

00:16:03.000 First of all, the universe is an effect.

00:16:05.000 The universe exploded into being out of nothing.

00:16:09.000 Once there was nothing, and then the entire space-time continuum leapt into existence.

00:16:14.000 What could have caused space-time and matter to come into existence?

00:16:18.000 The only thing I think that could cause space, time, and matter to come into existence is something that is spaceless, timeless, immaterial, powerful to create the universe out of nothing, personal in order to choose to create, because to go from nothing to a state of creation, someone has to make a choice, and only persons can make choices.

00:16:42.000 The cause would also have to be intelligent to have a mind to make a choice.

00:16:46.000 So, I always ask audiences: I say, when you think about a spaceless, timeless, immaterial, powerful, personal, intelligent cause, who do you think of?

00:16:58.000 Who do you think of?

00:17:00.000 God.

00:17:00.000 You say, Well, how do you know it's the Christian God?

00:17:02.000 And my answer is, we don't yet.

00:17:07.000 We haven't done enough research yet. 0.68

00:17:09.000 This could be Allah at this point, Charlie.

00:17:11.000 This could just be a generic God that, say, Thomas Jefferson talked about.

00:17:15.000 We hold these truths to be self-evident.

00:17:17.000 He didn't mention it was Jesus, he just said a creator.

00:17:20.000 But if we keep looking at the evidence, we're going to realize that the same being that walked out of the tomb 1,989 years ago is the same being in whose divine nature created the universe out of nothing.

00:17:35.000 But we have to look at the evidence for the resurrection for that.

00:17:37.000 So that's one effect.

00:17:38.000 Yeah, and so we'll get deeper into this, Frank. 0.61

00:17:41.000 But I think that the argument for atheism is so patently insane.

00:17:45.000 The only way that someone could be an atheist or believe atheism is because they want to believe it.

00:17:50.000 Yeah, they don't want to believe in God or Christianity.

00:17:53.000 In fact, here's a question I always ask people on college campuses.

00:17:56.000 Charlie goes to a lot of college campuses, as I do as well.

00:17:59.000 And if during the QA, there's an atheist or a non-believer at the microphone, and if they demonstrate any hostility at all, I'll normally ask this question.

00:18:08.000 If Christianity were true, would you become a Christian?

00:18:11.000 I've had atheists stand at that microphone in front of hundreds of people and say, no.

00:18:19.000 No. 1.00

00:18:20.000 Wait, you claim to be reasonable.

00:18:22.000 I asked you if something were true, would you believe it?

00:18:24.000 And you say, no.

00:18:25.000 How's that reasonable?

00:18:26.000 How's that rational?

00:18:27.000 It's not.

00:18:28.000 The problem is in here.

00:18:30.000 The problem's here.

00:18:31.000 They don't want it to be true.

00:18:33.000 They don't want there to be a God.

00:18:35.000 Why?

00:18:35.000 Because they want to be God of their own lives.

00:18:38.000 They're not on a truth quest, ladies and gentlemen.

00:18:40.000 They're on a happiness quest.

00:18:42.000 And they're just going to believe whatever they think is going to make them happy.

00:18:46.000 Here's the problem.

00:18:47.000 You can make yourself happy over the short term at college, maybe.

00:18:52.000 But over the long term, it's a disaster.

00:18:55.000 If you just try to do stuff that's going to make you feel good, it's going to help you in the short term, but over the long term, it's a disaster.

00:19:03.000 And everyone in this room and watching out there who's over 40 knows what I'm talking about.

00:19:07.000 And Charlie, who's well beyond his years, already knows it too.

00:19:10.000 Because if you just try and make yourself happy without regard to other people, you're going to wind up depressed, lonely, full of anxiety.

00:19:20.000 The only way to get true contentment and happiness is to go straight through truth, and Jesus is the truth.

00:19:26.000 Amen.

00:19:27.000 Now, let me mention one other thing regarding this.

00:19:31.000 I found that most people are looking for God like a criminal is looking for a cop.

00:19:36.000 They're not interested.

00:19:38.000 So you always need to stop and ask them if Christianity were true, would you become a Christian? 0.69

00:19:43.000 In fact, can I do a little survey here?

00:19:45.000 Is it okay to do a little survey?

00:19:47.000 I want you, ladies and gentlemen, to think of somebody you know who's not a Christian, whom you'd like to be a Christian.

00:19:55.000 Everybody got somebody?

00:19:57.000 All right, don't point at them.

00:19:59.000 All right.

00:20:00.000 Okay, here's my question about the person you're thinking of.

00:20:03.000 Is the person you're thinking of on a relentless pursuit of truth?

00:20:08.000 They want to know if Christianity is true, or are they apathetic or maybe even hostile to Christianity?

00:20:14.000 How many people say the person I'm thinking of is on a relentless pursuit of truth?

00:20:17.000 They want to know if Christianity is true. 0.95

00:20:18.000 Can see your hands, please. 0.95

00:20:22.000 Two.

00:20:23.000 How many people say the person I'm thinking of is apathetic or hostile?

00:20:27.000 Okay, look around the room, ladies and gentlemen.

00:20:29.000 People are not interested.

00:20:33.000 You know what you do with such people?

00:20:35.000 You love them, you pray for them, you plant seeds, and then you wait.

00:20:41.000 Because what's going to happen?

00:20:42.000 It happens to all of us.

00:20:43.000 Someday a tragedy is going to occur, and your phone is going to ring, and that person is going to be on the other end.

00:20:49.000 They're not going to call their atheist friend when things go wrong.

00:20:52.000 What's the atheist going to say?

00:20:53.000 There's no rhyme or reason to life.

00:20:54.000 This stuff just happens.

00:20:56.000 No, they're going to call you.

00:20:57.000 When the student's ready, the teacher will appear.

00:21:00.000 If they're ever going to be ready, it's when tragedy strikes.

00:21:03.000 So, Frank, one of the kind of, I would say, idea pathogens that is infecting the minds of our nation's young people is the virus of subjectivism or subjectivity.

00:21:15.000 And it's nothing new.

00:21:16.000 It's been around for quite some time.

00:21:18.000 The great C.S. Lewis, and I encourage all of you to read C.S. Lewis at least once a year: Screwtape Letters, Miracles, Mere Christianity.

00:21:25.000 Narnia is great to read to your kids and grandkids, super biblically based.

00:21:29.000 Abolition of Man, which is terrific.

00:21:32.000 C.S. Lewis is almost an unlimited reservoir of wisdom here, but he really pinpointed the danger in subjectivity.

00:21:39.000 So, the best way that we could describe subjectivity is what you'll hear on a college campus and maybe from your grandkids when they come back from a semester on a college campus that you're going into debt to go pay for is when they come home and they say, No, that's my truth.

00:21:53.000 And everyone has their own truth.

00:21:55.000 Now, mind you, this is what's the heart of the transgender movement, isn't it?

00:21:59.000 That I have a different material truth than you do, and that we can't have any sort of agreed-upon precepts.

00:22:07.000 So, Frank, what would be the proper response when someone says, Okay, no, no, but I have my own truth, I have my own beliefs, I chart my own course, my own destiny.

00:22:16.000 There's no such thing as truth.

00:22:18.000 Everyone has their own story they tell themselves.

00:22:20.000 In fact, nothing is absolutely true.

00:22:22.000 When somebody says there is no truth, you ought to ask them, is that true?

00:22:22.000 Yeah, great question.

00:22:27.000 Is it true that there's no truth?

00:22:29.000 Because if it's true that there's no truth, the claim there is no truth can't be true, but it claims to be true.

00:22:36.000 Did I say that right?

00:22:39.000 I know that can give you intellectual constipation if you think about it, because this is known as a self-defeating statement.

00:22:46.000 A self-defeating statement doesn't meet its own standard.

00:22:49.000 If I were to say I can't speak a word in English, what would you say?

00:22:52.000 You just use English to say it.

00:22:54.000 When people say there is no truth or they say there are no absolutes, they're uttering self-defeating statements.

00:22:59.000 They're saying it's absolutely true.

00:23:01.000 There are no absolutes.

00:23:02.000 Is that an absolute?

00:23:04.000 If they say all truth is relative, what are you going to say?

00:23:07.000 Is that a relative truth?

00:23:08.000 No, it's an objective truth.

00:23:10.000 When people say, I have my truth and you have your truth, there is no the truth.

00:23:14.000 You want to ask them, is that the truth?

00:23:16.000 That there is no the truth?

00:23:18.000 Do you see the problem?

00:23:19.000 It defeats itself.

00:23:21.000 Actually, when people say they have their own truth, you might as well say to them, I know this is not popular in today's culture, but there's no such thing as your truth or my truth.

00:23:29.000 There's just the truth.

00:23:31.000 I mean, if you're going to say you have your own truth, you might as well just say, I have my own math.

00:23:36.000 I mean, imagine if Charlie were to hire me to do something.

00:23:38.000 He said, hey, Frank, I'll give you $15 an hour.

00:23:40.000 Do the job and then let me know what I owe you.

00:23:42.000 So I work for 10 hours and I come to Charlie.

00:23:44.000 I go, Charlie, it's great working for you here at Turning Point USA.

00:23:48.000 I've worked for 10 hours and you said $15 an hour, so you owe me $15,000.

00:23:54.000 Charlie's going to say, what?

00:23:56.000 I don't owe you $15,000.

00:23:57.000 I owe you $150,000.

00:23:58.000 And I go, oh, no, no, you don't understand.

00:24:00.000 I have my own math.

00:24:02.000 All right.

00:24:03.000 Now, Frank, in all fairness, this is the idea that's running our government right now.

00:24:07.000 That's true.

00:24:09.000 This is not an outrageous proposition.

00:24:13.000 No, it's silliness to say you have your own truth.

00:24:16.000 There's just the truth, not your truth, not my truth.

00:24:20.000 It's self-defeating to say there's no truth.

00:24:22.000 It's like when people say don't judge.

00:24:24.000 What should you say to them?

00:24:26.000 Well, then why are you judging me for judging?

00:24:29.000 See, it's a judgment.

00:24:30.000 Jesus didn't say don't judge.

00:24:32.000 He said, judge not, lest you be judged.

00:24:35.000 By the same standard you judge others, you be judged by that standard. 1.00

00:24:39.000 So before you try and take the speck out of your brother's eye, you hypocrite, which is a judgment. 0.99

00:24:44.000 You notice that? 1.00

00:24:45.000 You hypocrite. 1.00

00:24:46.000 Take the log out of your own eye first, and then you'll be better able to help your brother. 1.00

00:24:49.000 Is this a command not to judge?

00:24:51.000 No, it's a command on how to judge.

00:24:53.000 He's telling you to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

00:24:57.000 That involves making a judgment. 0.96

00:24:58.000 He's simply saying don't judge hypocritically.

00:25:01.000 If you've got that problem, fix it, then go help your brother. 0.95

00:25:04.000 It would be completely ridiculous to say don't make judgments.

00:25:06.000 Why?

00:25:06.000 The people who are telling you not to make judgments, they're the most judgmental people in society.

00:25:11.000 Charlie deals with them all the time.

00:25:14.000 They give me such warm welcomes when I go to Berkeley.

00:25:16.000 I have to tell you, they just love hearing from me.

00:25:18.000 You went to UCAL Berserkly?

00:25:20.000 Yeah, multiple times.

00:25:21.000 You did.

00:25:22.000 UC Berkeley, Stanford, Boulder.

00:25:24.000 So Frank, let's talk about the moral implications if there is no God.

00:25:28.000 And so I feel as if we're living through the beginning stages of this moment right now in America, because if everyone gets to determine their own truth and determine their own morality, well, then who's to say what is right or wrong?

00:25:42.000 Why should children not be exposed to highly pornographic material?

00:25:45.000 What difference does it make?

00:25:46.000 Who's to say my truth says differently?

00:25:49.000 What are the societal moral implications when you do not believe in first a God or at least a moral giver or a moral law that is absolute and not something that is relative?

00:25:59.000 Well, this is another one of those effects that I mentioned earlier.

00:26:01.000 When someone says, how do you know God exists?

00:26:03.000 You're reasoning from effect to cause.

00:26:05.000 So we've reasoned from the effect known as the universe back to a spaceless, timeless, immaterial cause.

00:26:11.000 Now when we get a moral law written on our hearts that, say, Thomas Jefferson would say is self-evident, that the Apostle Paul said the Gentiles and have the law of the law written on their hearts, that's from Romans chapter 2.

00:26:22.000 These laws that are pressing on us are effects.

00:26:26.000 The question is, what caused these effects?

00:26:28.000 The effect for a moral law is a moral lawgiver.

00:26:33.000 So we're reasoning from effect back to cause.

00:26:36.000 And so that's another way we know that God exists.

00:26:39.000 Here's the ugly truth.

00:26:41.000 If there is no God, then nothing is ultimately right or wrong.

00:26:45.000 Everything's just a matter of opinion. 0.70

00:26:46.000 It's just your opinion against, say, Hitler's opinion.

00:26:50.000 It's just your opinion against Putin's opinion or whoever you think is evil.

00:26:56.000 It's your opinion against anyone that says something is right or wrong if there's no God.

00:27:04.000 Everything's just a matter of opinion.

00:27:06.000 Well, we know murder is not just a matter of opinion.

00:27:08.000 We know rape is not just a matter of opinion.

00:27:11.000 We know that those things are really objectively morally wrong.

00:27:14.000 And if they're objectively morally wrong, there must be a standard of rightness that defines what goodness is.

00:27:21.000 And any deviation from that standard would be what we would call evil, like murder or rape or theft or whatever those things are.

00:27:29.000 In fact, I think it's the most powerful argument today for the existence of God. 0.67

00:27:34.000 Because no matter where you go, Charlie, whether you're dealing with an atheist, an agnostic, or a Christian or a Muslim, whoever you're dealing with, they think certain things are morally right and certain things are morally wrong.

00:27:45.000 And so, Frank, I think we're starting to see in our society an entire generation that has been plagued by the inability to differentiate what is real and what is not.

00:27:56.000 And it's a term that I'm workshopping, but it really is kind of this plague of the imagination versus reality.

00:28:05.000 What do I mean by this?

00:28:06.000 You have a generation that is staring at screens where they just see photons all day long, whether it be video games or hypergraphic pornography or just talking to friends that quite honestly don't exist in the metaverse.

00:28:19.000 And then they have to come into the world that isn't as stimulating as that video game.

00:28:22.000 And their entire neural profile is completely messed up.

00:28:27.000 And they ask the questions, what is even real?

00:28:29.000 And this is where they say, well, I know God for sure is not real because I can't see God like I can see the video game in front of me.

00:28:36.000 I know this is a silly and elementary argument, but could you just for a brief second talk about how silly the argument is when people say, I can't see God, therefore God does not exist?

00:28:46.000 Yeah, well, there's a lot of things you can't see that you believe in. 0.75

00:28:48.000 For example, you believe in the laws of logic.

00:28:51.000 You can't see them, touch them, taste them, but you're using them right now.

00:28:55.000 You believe in your mind.

00:28:56.000 Have you ever seen your mind?

00:28:58.000 You're using it right now.

00:29:00.000 You believe in justice.

00:29:03.000 Have you ever seen justice?

00:29:05.000 Oh, you may have seen people being treated justly or unjustly, but you've never seen justice in itself because justice is not a physical thing you see.

00:29:14.000 You believe in love.

00:29:16.000 Have you ever seen love?

00:29:18.000 Oh, you may have seen people love.

00:29:19.000 You may have loved, but you've never seen love in itself.

00:29:22.000 In fact, years ago, I had a debate, a couple of debates with Christopher Hitchens.

00:29:26.000 You remember Christopher Hitchens?

00:29:27.000 He was a brilliant British atheist who sounded more brilliant than he was because he had a British accent.

00:29:34.000 Yeah, use really big words.

00:29:35.000 Anyway, in one of our debates, someone from the audience, a student at the college in New Jersey, asked Christopher, Christopher, what is love?

00:29:43.000 And Christopher, being a materialist, meaning all he believed that existed were molecules in motion, he had to come up with a materialistic answer for love.

00:29:53.000 So he thought about it for a minute and he said, love is a chemical.

00:29:58.000 And I said to him, Christopher, don't say that to your wife.

00:30:01.000 Honey, do you love me?

00:30:03.000 Why?

00:30:03.000 Yeah.

00:30:04.000 Because I got the chemical.

00:30:06.000 You know, today I have it.

00:30:07.000 Maybe tomorrow I won't.

00:30:09.000 No, love is not a chemical, yet you believe in it because it's part of the nature of reality.

00:30:18.000 It's an immaterial virtue grounded in the nature of God.

00:30:22.000 By the way, here's another thing you believe in you've never seen, gravity.

00:30:27.000 Oh, Frank, there's gravity right there, right?

00:30:29.000 That's the effect.

00:30:30.000 Yeah, you're not seeing gravity.

00:30:31.000 You're seeing what?

00:30:32.000 The effect of gravity.

00:30:33.000 You're seeing the effect of gravity.

00:30:34.000 You know, we don't even know what gravity is.

00:30:36.000 You realize that?

00:30:37.000 You're not seeing gravity.

00:30:38.000 You're seeing the effect of gravity.

00:30:41.000 You've never seen George Washington.

00:30:45.000 Yet you believe in him.

00:30:46.000 Why?

00:30:47.000 Because he's left effects behind that are best explained by a man who lived from 732, 1732 to 1799.

00:30:57.000 He's left effects behind.

00:30:59.000 Some of them are behind us right now that cause you to believe that this man existed even though you have never seen him.

00:31:08.000 Same thing is true with Jesus.

00:31:11.000 You haven't seen Jesus physically, but you believe he existed because he's left effects behind that are best explained by the God-man known as Jesus, who rose from the dead 1,989 years ago.

00:31:25.000 Now, that's a perfect segue, Frank.

00:31:26.000 So some people say, okay, Frank, I agree with you, but I'm spiritual, okay?

00:31:30.000 I'm not religious.

00:31:32.000 And this is kind of a new phenomenon amongst a lot of our nation's young people to say, okay, I believe in a God, but I believe in a Unitarian God or a Buddhist God.

00:31:42.000 And the Bible, it's full of inaccuracies and Jesus has been debunked.

00:31:47.000 And what evidence is there, Frank?

00:31:50.000 I mean, come on, these are old manuscripts, and they were written by people that wanted it to be true to confirm Old Testament prophecy.

00:31:58.000 How could you, Frank, the hyper-rational person, believe in such a thing like that?

00:32:02.000 When people say things like this, first of all, there's like eight different objections in there.

00:32:06.000 You're welcome, Frank.

00:32:06.000 Thank you.

00:32:07.000 You have to narrow it down.

00:32:13.000 First thing you want to ask is, when they say something like this, is, first of all, what do you mean the Bible has been proven inaccurate?

00:32:21.000 What evidence do you have that it has?

00:32:23.000 They typically might say something like, I mean, come on, you're trying to tell me you'll be swallowed by a whale sometime soon.

00:32:29.000 They'll take some of the more, let's say, miraculous interventions of God that you and I believe in.

00:32:36.000 So I might ask, so you don't believe in miracles, why not?

00:32:40.000 Because I've never seen such a miracle is what they would say.

00:32:43.000 Or they'd say it defies the laws of nature.

00:32:45.000 Okay.

00:32:46.000 And then I would ask, this universe that you're living in, this universe is a miracle.

00:32:52.000 Do you know that?

00:32:53.000 I mean, you don't believe in miracles?

00:32:54.000 This universe is a miracle.

00:32:55.000 It exploded into being out of nothing, which is, by the way, why when people say they don't believe in miracles, I normally say, look around, you're living in one.

00:33:04.000 But I also ask them, what is the greatest miracle in the Bible?

00:33:07.000 And normally they'll say something like Jonah or Noah or the resurrection.

00:33:11.000 And I'll go, no, the greatest miracle in the Bible is the first verse.

00:33:15.000 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

00:33:18.000 If that verse is true, ladies and gentlemen, every other verse is at least possible.

00:33:23.000 I mean, if it's true that God created the universe out of nothing, can he raise Jesus from the dead?

00:33:28.000 Can he do the Jonah miracle, the Noah miracle?

00:33:31.000 Can he part the Red Sea?

00:33:32.000 Can he turn water into wine? 0.90

00:33:34.000 These things are easy if the first verse of the Bible is true.

00:33:37.000 Well, here's the interesting thing, ladies and gentlemen.

00:33:40.000 Even atheists are admitting the evidence for the first verse.

00:33:44.000 They're admitting that space, time, and matter had a beginning out of nothing.

00:33:48.000 If space, time, and matter had a beginning out of nothing.

00:33:51.000 Now, they don't think it's God, but what else could it be?

00:33:53.000 It's got to be a spaceless, timeless, immaterial, powerful, personal, intelligent cause, as we mentioned earlier.

00:33:59.000 If that is true, every other verse in the Bible is at least possible.

00:34:03.000 And when people say, well, I haven't seen a miracle, I said, you shouldn't expect to see a lot of miracles.

00:34:08.000 If any, why?

00:34:09.000 Because miracles, by definition, have to be rare if they're going to get our attention.

00:34:13.000 If miracles were occurring all the day, all the time, we wouldn't consider them miracles.

00:34:19.000 We'd say, hey, this stuff just happens all the time.

00:34:21.000 Well, and think about the miracles that do happen that we take for granted.

00:34:24.000 Oh, yeah.

00:34:25.000 Like life or our ability for all of our organs to work without us having to consciously think about it, right?

00:34:30.000 For your pancreas and your liver and your heart and breathing while you sleep.

00:34:35.000 These are miracles, inexplicable.

00:34:37.000 And we don't even talk about it.

00:34:38.000 In fact, it's evidence of that.

00:34:39.000 You're exactly right.

00:34:40.000 In fact, how many people in here, and every mother should raise their hand, how many people in here have seen their own flesh and blood born?

00:34:47.000 Some of the dads, too, right?

00:34:48.000 Now, when you see your own flesh and blood come out of another human being or yourself, you don't go, evolution!

00:34:56.000 You go, this is amazing!

00:34:59.000 How does this happen?

00:35:01.000 Now, it happens every day, and we don't call it a miracle.

00:35:04.000 But to Charlie's point, in fact, a biologist, Ariel Roth, once said, God never did a miracle to convince an atheist because his ordinary works provide sufficient evidence.

00:35:16.000 Like birth, childbirth.

00:35:20.000 But let me go back to the point about miracles.

00:35:22.000 They have to be rare.

00:35:24.000 Imagine if resurrections occurred routinely.

00:35:28.000 What would the resurrection of Christ mean to us?

00:35:31.000 Nothing.

00:35:32.000 You go to some guy and you go, hey, Jesus rose from the dead to prove he was God.

00:35:35.000 And the guy goes, so what?

00:35:37.000 Uncle Leroy just rose from the dead two weeks ago, right?

00:35:41.000 Now I got to give the inheritance back.

00:35:43.000 No, it's got to be a rare event if it's going to get your attention.

00:35:48.000 So miracles, if they, first of all, let's clear up one thing.

00:35:53.000 I believe miracles occur today, but they don't have to occur today for Christianity to be true.

00:35:59.000 There doesn't have to be one miracle since Jesus and the apostles for Christianity to be true.

00:36:04.000 So if some atheist says, well, I got to see a miracle to believe in Christianity.

00:36:07.000 No, you don't.

00:36:09.000 First of all, the universe exploded into being out of nothing.

00:36:12.000 Secondly, Jesus rose from the dead.

00:36:13.000 There's great evidence for that. 0.98

00:36:15.000 If those two things are true, Christianity is true. 1.00

00:36:17.000 Mark it down. 0.98

00:36:18.000 And so, Frank, some of the other objections, I'll try not to put eight in a box, is how can we trust Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John?

00:36:26.000 Is that we're told if it's old, it's unreliable.

00:36:30.000 From a historical standpoint, how accurate, how exceptional are the first manuscripts that we have of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John?

00:36:38.000 Well, that's called chronological snobbery.

00:36:40.000 That's a C.S. Lewis point where he says, just because it's old doesn't mean it's wrong.

00:36:44.000 In fact, we got to get back to the old.

00:36:46.000 That's what we're doing here at the Dream City Church, right?

00:36:49.000 With the Turning Point Academy.

00:36:50.000 What do you call in the Academy, by the way?

00:36:52.000 Dream City Christianity Turning Point Academy.

00:36:54.000 Turning Point Academy, okay?

00:36:55.000 We're going back to the classics, ladies and gentlemen, right?

00:37:00.000 But look, the manuscript evidence is incredibly strong for the New Testament.

00:37:05.000 If you were to take all the manuscripts we have for, say, an ancient Greek writer, somebody like Josephus, and stack them up, they would be about four feet high.

00:37:16.000 If you were to take all of the manuscripts for the New Testament and stack them up, they would be over a mile high.

00:37:23.000 Because the scribes copied the New Testament, and of course, the Old Testament scribes copied the Old Testament. 0.98

00:37:30.000 The Jewish scribes did. 0.75

00:37:31.000 We know what the original said. 0.98

00:37:33.000 There's no real doubt there.

00:37:34.000 The bigger question is, how do we know the original is telling us the truth?

00:37:38.000 That's the more interesting question.

00:37:40.000 We can deal with that if you want.

00:37:41.000 And just an interest, I want to dive in on one point that for me was super, let's just say persuasive.

00:37:50.000 When the gospels go through the story of Jesus being, you know, discovered post-resurrection, who discovers him?

00:38:00.000 And why does this actually validate the truth of the gospel? 0.99

00:38:04.000 If you were trying to create a lie, this would be the dumbest lie you've ever created. 0.98

00:38:08.000 Yeah, this is a great point, Charlie. 0.97

00:38:09.000 We have it in both books.

00:38:10.000 I don't have enough faith to be an atheist and that's really good. 0.99

00:38:14.000 There's something known as the principle of embarrassment. 0.99

00:38:16.000 It goes like this.

00:38:17.000 If there's something embarrassing to the author or authors, it's probably true.

00:38:22.000 Why?

00:38:23.000 Because you're not going to invent things that make you look bad.

00:38:25.000 You might invent things that make you look good, but not bad.

00:38:28.000 In fact, let me ask you guys a question.

00:38:30.000 How many people in here have ever lied to make yourself look good?

00:38:36.000 If you don't have your hand up right now, you're lying to make yourself look good.

00:38:41.000 And it's not working.

00:38:42.000 We know you're lying.

00:38:44.000 How many people in here have ever lied to make yourself look bad?

00:38:44.000 All right.

00:38:48.000 Yeah, you don't do that.

00:38:49.000 You might lie to make yourself look good, but you don't lie to make yourself look bad.

00:38:53.000 Now, the New Testament documents, and this is true of the Old Testament as well, but the New Testament documents are filled with embarrassing details they never would have invented.

00:39:01.000 Charlie just mentioned one of them.

00:39:03.000 First of all, the New Testament writers depict themselves as cowards, right?

00:39:09.000 They run away at the crucifixion.

00:39:12.000 And who are the brave ones that go down to the tomb and discover it's empty?

00:39:17.000 The women. 0.81

00:39:18.000 That's right, ladies. 1.00

00:39:19.000 You can give yourselves a hand.

00:39:21.000 I am woman.

00:39:22.000 Hear me roar.

00:39:24.000 Now, who wrote the New Testament documents down? 0.99

00:39:28.000 Men. 0.64

00:39:29.000 Now, what man is going to invent that he was hiding for fear of the Jews why the women went down and discovered the empty tomb?

00:39:39.000 Would any man in here invent that?

00:39:41.000 No, if I was inventing it, I'd make myself look good, wouldn't you?

00:39:44.000 I mean, I'd write down something like this.

00:39:46.000 Let's see, we marched right down there and we overpowered that elite Roman guard.

00:39:50.000 Yeah, that sounds good. 1.00

00:39:51.000 John said, get out.

00:39:54.000 Peter, roundhouse, kicked him.

00:39:57.000 Thomas said, we'll be back.

00:40:01.000 No doubt.

00:40:02.000 And then on Sunday morning, we marched right down to the tomb and we saw Jesus who congratulated us on our great faith.

00:40:10.000 And then we went and comforted the trembling women, right?

00:40:14.000 I would never say it was Mr. Sissy Pants why the women went down and discovered the empty tomb.

00:40:19.000 And what Charlie's pointing out is in that culture, a woman's testimony was not considered on par with that of a man.

00:40:28.000 So if you're making up the New Testament story, you'd only have the men be the first witnesses.

00:40:34.000 But all four gospels say the women were the first witnesses, which is telling us what they really were, as embarrassing as it was to the men, and how it didn't help their case at all.

00:40:46.000 In fact, one of the women was a formerly demon-possessed woman. 0.98

00:40:50.000 Oh, gee, what a great witness, huh?

00:40:52.000 She's very credible.

00:40:53.000 They're not making this up.

00:40:55.000 In fact, I had a lady once come up to me once, Charlie. 1.00

00:40:57.000 She said, Frank, I know why Jesus appeared to the women first.

00:41:00.000 And she said, because he wanted to get the story out.

00:41:00.000 I said, why?

00:41:08.000 I said, that is an excellent point.

00:41:12.000 I had not thought of that.

00:41:13.000 Because, ladies, when your man comes home from work, does he say much?

00:41:17.000 There could have been a nuclear explosion down at the plant.

00:41:21.000 He's not going to tell you.

00:41:23.000 You'll see it on the news before you hear it from him.

00:41:26.000 You'll be watching the news going, hey, hi, whatever.

00:41:29.000 Oh, yeah, I forgot to tell you.

00:41:32.000 The nuke blew up.

00:41:34.000 I've been hot for three days.

00:41:37.000 What's for dinner?

00:41:38.000 He's not going to tell you.

00:41:40.000 There's tons of this stuff, embarrassing stuff they never would have invented.

00:41:44.000 They're not making it up.

00:41:45.000 And so it has to be true because it also from it took several women for even it to be considered to be true in a court of law. 1.00

00:41:52.000 And so it actually shows the authenticity of the gospels.

00:41:57.000 So we don't have a lot of time before we go to question and answer.

00:41:59.000 But another objection, Frank, and I'll just throw two or three at you, is that maybe Jesus was never actually killed, that he was still alive when he was put in the tomb.

00:42:08.000 Or the second one, his body was stolen by his believers.

00:42:12.000 Or the third one is that this was kind of a vast conspiracy, right?

00:42:17.000 So I know that's a lot, but.

00:42:19.000 Let's deal with the conspiracy first.

00:42:21.000 In fact, it was Justice Antony and Scalia who, in one opinion, said this.

00:42:25.000 We all know that the bumbling apologists or the evangelists, these are the people that wrote down the New Testament, invented the resurrection story in a sinister text, in a sinister attempt to get themselves all martyred.

00:42:37.000 I mean, like, why would you invent a story that's going to get you killed if it's not true?

00:42:43.000 It makes no sense at all.

00:42:45.000 First of all, the empty tomb was empty because Jesus came out of it.

00:42:49.000 It wasn't because his disciples stole the body.

00:42:52.000 Why would they steal the body and then say he had risen from the dead again to get themselves kicked out of the synagogue and then beaten, tortured, and killed?

00:42:58.000 That doesn't make any sense.

00:43:00.000 There were Roman guards on duty.

00:43:02.000 And by the way, do you know that you know what their explanation was for why the tomb was empty?

00:43:08.000 It was the disciples came and stole the body while the guards were asleep. 1.00

00:43:11.000 Now, if you think about that for more than five seconds, you realize how stupid that is. 0.99

00:43:15.000 Number one, if you're a Roman guard on duty and you fall asleep on watch, what happens to you? 1.00

00:43:22.000 You're executed. 0.68

00:43:23.000 Number two, if you're a Roman guard on duty and you fall asleep, how do you know what happened? 0.77

00:43:31.000 Well, we were asleep, see?

00:43:31.000 What happened?

00:43:33.000 And while we were sleeping, we noticed that the disciples came right down here.

00:43:37.000 No, that doesn't make any sense at all.

00:43:40.000 And number three, why steal the body to get yourselves killed?

00:43:44.000 In fact, here's a really important point we need to make.

00:43:47.000 A lot of people say, well, are there any non-Christian writers who talk about Jesus and the apostles?

00:43:51.000 There are.

00:43:52.000 I don't have time to get into it now.

00:43:53.000 It's all in the book.

00:43:54.000 But you know what the question implicitly assumes quite frequently is that you really can't trust the New Testament writers because, you know, the New Testament writers were biased because you see, they were believers.

00:44:05.000 You only got to look at the non-Christian writers to really know what the truth is.

00:44:10.000 Think about that, ladies and gentlemen. 1.00

00:44:12.000 That is silly. 0.88

00:44:13.000 Why? 0.85

00:44:14.000 What did the New Testament writers, who were all Jews, by the way, with the exception of Luke? 1.00

00:44:19.000 Luke is the only Gentile. 0.78

00:44:20.000 All the writers of the New Testament are Jewish believers in Yahweh who thought they were God's chosen people. 0.98

00:44:26.000 Why would they invent the resurrection story, a story they didn't believe could be true, because they didn't believe a man could claim to be God. 0.91

00:44:35.000 That would be blasphemy.

00:44:36.000 And they didn't believe someone could resurrect in the middle of time.

00:44:39.000 They knew we would all resurrect at the end of time, according to Daniel 12.

00:44:43.000 These are things they didn't believe.

00:44:46.000 Why would they say Jesus rose from the dead and claimed to be God if he didn't rise from the dead and didn't claim to be God?

00:44:56.000 What did they get out of this?

00:44:58.000 You know, a friend of mine, a mutual friend, you may know, Jay Warner Wallace, he's a cold case homicide detective.

00:45:03.000 He's been on dateline more than any other homicide detective because he solves murders decades old.

00:45:09.000 He's also written a book called Cold Case Christianity, where he applies his homicide skills to the greatest homicide of all time, the homicide of Jesus.

00:45:17.000 Anyway, he says when he finds a murdered body, he says there's only three reasons why that guy's dead.

00:45:22.000 Not a thousand reasons, just three or a combination of these three.

00:45:27.000 There was either a sex issue, a money issue, or a power issue.

00:45:31.000 Sex, money, and power are the three things that can motivate people to murder. 0.78

00:45:35.000 In fact, they're the same three things that cause any of us to sin.

00:45:39.000 Sex, money, and power are great things, but they're so great that sometimes we'll take shortcuts to get them.

00:45:39.000 Why?

00:45:45.000 And so Jim says, if you're going to say these writers made it up, you got to find one of those three motivators.

00:45:52.000 So let's look at the New Testament writers for a minute, ladies and gentlemen.

00:45:56.000 Did the New Testament writers, the apostles, get real popular with the ladies for saying Jesus had resurrected from the dead? 0.87

00:46:04.000 No, they didn't get sex. 0.88

00:46:05.000 Did they get money?

00:46:07.000 No, they weren't on TV asking for money.

00:46:10.000 Did they get power?

00:46:12.000 No, they got persecuted.

00:46:14.000 Paul had power when he was a Pharisee persecuting the church.

00:46:19.000 As soon as he becomes a believer, he's persecuted.

00:46:22.000 They didn't get sex. 0.94

00:46:23.000 They didn't get money.

00:46:24.000 They didn't get power.

00:46:25.000 Why did they say it was true?

00:46:27.000 Because it really happened.

00:46:29.000 In fact, this is going to sound really weird.

00:46:32.000 Stick with me.

00:46:33.000 I believe the Bible's inerrant, and I know you probably do too, but this is going to sound almost heretical. 0.87

00:46:38.000 It's not. 0.55

00:46:38.000 Stick with me. 0.55

00:46:41.000 Christianity is not true because a series of documents we put under one binding we call the Bible says it's true. 0.94

00:46:48.000 In fact, Christianity would be true if the Bible never existed.

00:46:54.000 You go, how can that be?

00:46:56.000 Ladies and gentlemen, do you realize there were thousands of Christians before the line of the New Testament was ever written?

00:47:03.000 Because they witnessed the resurrected Jesus.

00:47:03.000 Why?

00:47:06.000 They wrote it down later.

00:47:08.000 In other words, Christianity did not originate with a book.

00:47:12.000 Christianity originated with an event, the resurrection. 0.98

00:47:16.000 And then as a result of the resurrection, these guys who were Jews wrote it down and went to their deaths saying it was true. 0.99

00:47:24.000 In fact, you could put it this way. 0.93

00:47:25.000 The New Testament writers did not create the resurrection.

00:47:28.000 The resurrection created the New Testament writers. 0.99

00:47:33.000 Well said.

00:47:35.000 So in closing here, Frank, before we get to some questions here, can we talk about some of the implications that the kind of death of God, as Nietzsche would put it, have politically especially?

00:47:47.000 You've written and spoken openly about socialism, about totalitarianism.

00:47:52.000 Can you talk about how important it is that we frame this in a biblical context as then we get to some questions and answers?

00:48:00.000 A lot of times, as a result of the Roe v. Wade decision, people are going to say, this is not a theocracy.

00:48:07.000 You can't impose your religion on people.

00:48:10.000 Let me point one thing out.

00:48:11.000 We're not imposing religion.

00:48:13.000 We're not legislating religion.

00:48:14.000 We're not telling people where, when, how, or if to worship.

00:48:17.000 We're not telling people they have to be part of a church or they have to believe in certain things about God.

00:48:22.000 We're not trying to legislate religion.

00:48:24.000 We are trying to legislate morality.

00:48:26.000 And all laws legislate morality.

00:48:29.000 Every law declares one behavior right and the opposite behavior wrong.

00:48:32.000 In fact, the people who say they have a right to an abortion, that's a moral position. 0.79

00:48:37.000 They're trying to put that into law to say a woman has an absolute right to basically kill her child. 1.00

00:48:43.000 I think what we ought to start saying here, Charlie, is this, on this whole abortion issue.

00:48:47.000 If your solution to your problem is a dead baby, you have the wrong solution.

00:48:53.000 That's the shortest way you can say it.

00:48:56.000 There is never a solution if it requires a dead baby.

00:49:00.000 That's not a solution.

00:49:02.000 So we're not trying to legislate religion.

00:49:05.000 We are trying to legislate morality and all laws legislate morality.

00:49:09.000 25 years ago, Dr. Geiser and I wrote a book called Legislating Morality.

00:49:13.000 That's what it's all about.

00:49:14.000 And one of the most articulate defenders of the moral point of view, without having to say you have to be a believer, is sitting right next to me.

00:49:23.000 He does this every day on the air around college campuses, around churches.

00:49:29.000 And so I'm privileged to be here at this event.

00:49:34.000 And I want you guys to continue to support Charlie because the work he does is so important.

00:49:38.000 But to go to the core of your question, if we lose self-evident truths grounded in our Creator, there's only two ways to govern.

00:49:47.000 You can govern by the truth by principle or you can govern by power.

00:49:53.000 And if you notice, the left is governing purely by power.

00:49:58.000 It's not principle.

00:50:00.000 It's power.

00:50:01.000 We will shut you up because we don't want to hear your principles.

00:50:05.000 We don't want to hear your truth.

00:50:07.000 We don't want to have a debate.

00:50:08.000 We want to cancel the debate and just impose our will on you.

00:50:13.000 You notice that they don't want to debate.

00:50:16.000 They don't want to really defend their view.

00:50:19.000 They just want to impose their view because they can't defend their view.

00:50:23.000 Without God, without self-evident truths, there's no way to say you have a right to anything.

00:50:29.000 Everything's just a matter of opinions.

00:50:31.000 They're going to impose their opinions on you.

00:50:31.000 What are they going to do?

00:50:33.000 Using power.

00:50:34.000 Isn't Frank great, by the way?

00:50:36.000 Super incredible.

00:50:38.000 So let's start lining up for some questions, everybody, if we can.

00:50:42.000 I want to just plug the books again for the live stream.

00:50:44.000 It's I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist, which is just phenomenal.

00:50:48.000 And it goes into just some just terrific detail about the resurrection, about the Bible, and about any questions you might have about Christianity.

00:50:57.000 And then Frank's new book called Hollywood Heroes, which is how your favorite movies reveal God.

00:51:03.000 We're going to be doing a whole thing together on that.

00:51:06.000 So if you guys want to line up in these two aisles here for any questions, and do we have a first taker in either of the lines?

00:51:13.000 I think we've answered everything.

00:51:14.000 By the way, the books are available on the book table.

00:51:16.000 I want you guys to know that all the proceeds from the sale of the books will go to feed needy children.

00:51:22.000 Mine, just so you know.

00:51:25.000 That's very funny.

00:51:26.000 All right, we'll start here.

00:51:28.000 All right.

00:51:29.000 My name is Sarah, so I am the children's pastor here at Dream City Church.

00:51:34.000 And you touched on something earlier.

00:51:37.000 You talked about how some of the stories in the Bible, like Jonah and the well and different stories and miracles that happened in the Bible, and how people say they don't believe in God because how could these things have really happened?

00:51:53.000 Right.

00:51:54.000 And we've heard that in kids' ministry several years ago, we had kids that were saying, these are not true stories.

00:52:01.000 These are make-believe.

00:52:02.000 So now we start out by saying, this is true.

00:52:05.000 This is God's word.

00:52:07.000 God's word is true.

00:52:08.000 But my question is, and I hope that there's a lot of other pastors and leaders listening today, but my question is, why is it so important that we teach the truth, that we communicate correctly to our kids at an early age that the Bible is true?

00:52:28.000 I think we want to show them why it's true, not just claim it's true, because then they get to those stories and they say, well, I haven't seen this, as Charlie said earlier, or this seems outlandish to me.

00:52:40.000 Look, why do I believe that Jonah, the story of Jonah, is true and the story of Noah is true?

00:52:46.000 Because Jesus believed it was true.

00:52:48.000 And I just have a personal policy.

00:52:50.000 Yeah, he mentioned it, applied it to his own life.

00:52:52.000 I just have a personal policy.

00:52:54.000 If somebody predicts and accomplishes his own resurrection from the dead, I just trust whatever the guy says.

00:52:59.000 Okay?

00:53:00.000 So it's on Jesus's authority that I believe the Bible's inerrant.

00:53:04.000 It's not just because I can answer every possible objection, although many of them we can answer, but it's because Jesus said the entire Old Testament was the word of God and he promised the New Testament.

00:53:17.000 So it's on Jesus' authority.

00:53:19.000 Look, the whole thing is contingent on Jesus rising from the dead. 0.99

00:53:22.000 If he's risen from the dead, Christianity is true. 0.99

00:53:26.000 If he hasn't risen from the dead, we're wasting our time here today. 0.97

00:53:29.000 As the Apostle Paul actually said in 1 Corinthians 15, he says, if Jesus hasn't risen from the dead, your faith is in vain. 0.99

00:53:36.000 So we teach evidence that Christianity is true. 0.61

00:53:39.000 And on Jesus' authority, we say the Bible's inerrant. 0.97

00:53:43.000 Yeah, and I'll kind of piggyback on that.

00:53:45.000 For it depends how young they are.

00:53:47.000 I mean, seven, eight, nine-year-olds.

00:53:49.000 I can't imagine you're getting super critical backlash.

00:53:53.000 That would be something new.

00:53:55.000 But someone should talk to them about some things they believe around Christmas, too, but that's a separate issue.

00:54:01.000 But yeah, I will say this: that for me personally, the more I learned about biology and physics, actually the more it strengthened my faith.

00:54:11.000 When you really dive deep into how complexly made we are, it is the most patently insane, improbable argument to say there was not an intelligent designer behind it.

00:54:22.000 Just how our systems work together from the brain itself to our conscious and unconscious mind.

00:54:29.000 It's just, it goes on and on and on.

00:54:31.000 And so, look, I'm not professing to say how to communicate that to a seven, eight, or nine-year-old, but what Frank is saying is totally true, which is laying the framework and the foundation is, hey, human beings, what you're looking at, this is a miracle.

00:54:44.000 This is way more incredible than going into a whale.

00:54:47.000 You're talking about an autonomous being that has consciousness, agency, the ability to reason.

00:54:54.000 You don't have to think about any of the natural things you have to do.

00:54:57.000 Digestion, breathing.

00:55:00.000 blood flow.

00:55:01.000 Do you have to think to have your heart beat?

00:55:02.000 No, it just happens automatically.

00:55:04.000 Those systems built together to say that came through a roll of the dice or an accident, it's not even illogical.

00:55:12.000 You're living on a different planet.

00:55:13.000 And so you just look at the human being and you say, whoa, if that can be designed, yes, the Red Sea can be parted.

00:55:21.000 Yes, water can be walked on.

00:55:23.000 Yes, disease can be cured.

00:55:25.000 Because this, in my personal opinion, is the great miracle that is standing right in front of us that we're choosing to ignore.

00:55:32.000 Thank you.

00:55:32.000 Yes.

00:55:33.000 Thank you.

00:55:39.000 Thank you for everything.

00:55:39.000 Hi.

00:55:42.000 But my question, a friend of mine today said that she was talking to a five-year-old, I think it was a grandchild, and said something about Jesus.

00:55:51.000 And the little girl said, who's Jesus?

00:55:54.000 And she was floored.

00:55:56.000 So that, and then there's a lot of people that are grandparents, not me, thank God, but their kids don't believe in Jesus and they don't know how to talk to their grandkids about Jesus.

00:56:09.000 Or can you talk to that?

00:56:12.000 Yeah, that's a really difficult problem.

00:56:15.000 As a grandparent, if you're trying to educate your grandchildren and the parents aren't interested in your beliefs being shared with them, that's a hard, really hard problem.

00:56:27.000 I might want to talk more to the parents and ask them.

00:56:31.000 I'm reminded of what C.S. Lewis famously said.

00:56:33.000 C.S. Lewis said, Christianity is either the most important fact in the universe or it's irrelevant.

00:56:41.000 One thing it can't be is moderately important.

00:56:44.000 Look, think about that. 0.91

00:56:45.000 If Christianity is true, if Jesus really rose from the dead and by trusting in him, your sins can be forgiven and you can be in eternity with him and your loved ones who have also trusted in Christ. 0.94

00:56:56.000 If that really is true, then what could be more important than eternity, right?

00:57:02.000 If it's not true, it's irrelevant.

00:57:03.000 So I always ask people, if it were true, would you become a Christian?

00:57:07.000 And I would ask that of my, I've asked that of my own kids, obviously.

00:57:11.000 They are Christians, but you get the idea.

00:57:14.000 And it's this idea that you're going to let your kids make up their own minds. 0.76

00:57:18.000 First of all, kids are going to make up their own minds anyway, but you have to guide them.

00:57:22.000 If you don't guide them, guess what's going to guide them?

00:57:25.000 This glowing rectangle that we all have.

00:57:28.000 Do you realize that I know we have a big problem of fatherless homes in America, but even homes with fathers in them, that an average teenage boy will in a week spend 30 minutes in meaningful conversation with his father while he spends 44 hours watching TV, surfing the internet, or playing video games?

00:57:54.000 Gee, which is going to have more influence?

00:57:57.000 So we're going to have to make a concerted effort to reach our kids and then our grandkids as well.

00:58:03.000 We have resources on our website, crosexamine.org, that can help you do that.

00:58:07.000 TPUSA Faith has resources as well.

00:58:10.000 This school right here, the Dream City School, has resources.

00:58:13.000 So use those resources to try and reach them, young.

00:58:16.000 And I'll just kind of say one or two things on top of that, which is really important.

00:58:21.000 What is education?

00:58:22.000 So education comes from a Latin word, which means to lead forth, lead forth into truth.

00:58:28.000 The way we educate young people today, and Dream City Christian at Turning Point Academy is going to be the exception to this, is we kind of democratize the education where we ask eight-year-olds or 10-year-olds or even 12-year-olds, 15-year-olds, what do you feel about this?

00:58:45.000 A completely irrelevant question, by the way.

00:58:48.000 And many of you have heard me say this before.

00:58:50.000 It does not matter what a young person thinks about anything.

00:58:53.000 What matters is, is it true?

00:58:56.000 What matters is what is beautiful?

00:58:59.000 What is good?

00:59:00.000 Now, some of you might say, well, Charlie, that's rather insensitive.

00:59:03.000 If you extrapolate, what does an eight-year-old feel?

00:59:07.000 Then yes, you're going to have a bunch of men who think they're women by the time they're 14. 0.85

00:59:11.000 If your feelings are the most important thing, then you will lie yourself into oblivion.

00:59:16.000 Now, you see this in a lot of kind of the mental health issues as well, where people say, well, I feel depressed.

00:59:23.000 I feel a certain way.

00:59:24.000 Now, they might have a chemical imbalance, but I believe personally, 95% of those issues are misdiagnosed as complete, let me just put it this way, lifestyle choices that completely throw off dopamine, serotonin rewards, and ways that young people have no idea how to navigate reward and risk and their place or purpose.

00:59:48.000 And so, you know, I've done a real deep dive in this in the last couple of weeks.

00:59:52.000 I was fascinated by this because we get a lot of emails, freedom at charliekirk.com, thousands of emails a day.

00:59:58.000 And there's been this massive uptick in the last couple of weeks of people that say, Charlie, my kids are depressed.

01:00:04.000 My grandkids are depressed.

01:00:05.000 They're anxious.

01:00:07.000 And I just said, there's got to be, I think there's a spiritual dimension, of course, to this, obviously, but there has to be something that is just kind of chemically that we're missing here.

01:00:17.000 And if you just do just an hour-long just study on dopamine and how God gave us dopamine as a reward chemical, it makes perfect sense why these 14, 15, and 16-year-olds are depressed.

01:00:28.000 And basically, dopamine is a reward chemical that is supposed to incentivize you to push harder and work harder.

01:00:34.000 And you get it when you have chocolate.

01:00:37.000 You can get it released when you have, you know, take cocaine or amphetamines, or you play highly addictive video games or pornography, or you live in a fantasy land of kind of social media where a 14 and 15 and 16 year old, their baseline of where dopamine gets released in their brain will be so altered that they think they're living in a depressed state.

01:01:01.000 And you could see this in literal meth addicts and cocaine addicts.

01:01:06.000 They feel that there is no meaning.

01:01:09.000 There is no purpose.

01:01:10.000 And you read the literature of what these 16 and 17 and 18 year olds are saying, it is identical to a brain that has been burnt out on drugs by the time they're 30.

01:01:19.000 It makes you think, what exactly are we doing here?

01:01:21.000 We're handing them these digital pacifiers, not realizing their entire brain, their risk, reward, and their purpose vehicles will be completely and totally burnt out.

01:01:31.000 And so, and I, so that's just, that's just one other thing.

01:01:35.000 I know it's a little bit of a sidetrack on that, but I just had it in my heart to share with you guys for just some of the audience response we've had.

01:01:41.000 And then look, the final thing is be a disagreeable grandmother too, for all of you out there.

01:01:47.000 Play to win.

01:01:48.000 Those are your grandkids.

01:01:49.000 You know, offend your kids.

01:01:51.000 Who cares?

01:01:52.000 You know, if your kids went off the beaten path, no, see, I mean this.

01:01:55.000 Grandparents can save a kid's life.

01:01:57.000 I mean this.

01:01:59.000 Grandparents can save a grandkid's life.

01:02:01.000 And so you always, you could be the sweet one, give candy away and all that stuff, but profess truth.

01:02:07.000 And guess what?

01:02:08.000 When the chips are down and they need some advice, they're going to come to grandma's house or grandpa's house, not their parents' house.

01:02:15.000 Not that you want that, but all of a sudden it's like, hey, you know, I have to make a decision whether or not to go away for the weekend of this party up an hour and a half north.

01:02:23.000 What do you think I should do?

01:02:24.000 My parents think it's fine.

01:02:26.000 But there's a check in their spirit and they come to see grandpa or grandma. 0.97

01:02:30.000 So don't be ever absent and be disagreeable if your kids are teaching total garbage and always preach the truth. 0.95

01:02:37.000 My grandma would have said, Can I go? 0.95

01:02:39.000 That's right.

01:02:40.000 Exactly.

01:02:41.000 God bless you.

01:02:42.000 Thank you so much.

01:02:44.000 And by the way, if there's a question on this side, we also have a line.

01:02:47.000 If you guys have one, so we'll go here.

01:02:49.000 Hey there.

01:02:50.000 You might not remember, I was here a couple of months ago.

01:02:53.000 Victor Marks prayed for me.

01:02:54.000 I'm back on track with God.

01:02:55.000 Thank Jesus.

01:02:56.000 Praise God.

01:02:57.000 That's amazing.

01:02:58.000 And we're going to have Victor Marks back, by the way.

01:03:01.000 Wasn't Victor great?

01:03:02.000 He's so incredible.

01:03:04.000 And with all that, God gave me my calling and He wants me to go and teach in secondary education.

01:03:10.000 And so when I signed up with GCU, one of the classes that I have to take is social justice for educators.

01:03:20.000 And I was wondering if either of you had any kind of advice for dealing with this at GCU?

01:03:25.000 At GCU.

01:03:26.000 Yeah, that doesn't surprise me.

01:03:28.000 Yeah, GCU's gone off the reservation a long time ago.

01:03:31.000 So, yeah.

01:03:32.000 So social justice is something that, let me put it this way: it is, you could say it's a Trojan horse, a wolf in sheep's clothing, all this sort of stuff.

01:03:43.000 Look, social justice, there's only justice to God.

01:03:46.000 There's not environmental justice.

01:03:47.000 There's not racial justice.

01:03:49.000 There's not social justice. 0.74

01:03:50.000 There's not gender justice. 1.00

01:03:52.000 Here's what they view the world through, though. 0.93

01:03:53.000 They view the world through a prism of oppressor and oppressed, right?

01:03:56.000 So all throughout social justice and education, they're going to be teaching you unbiblical, woke terms such as diversity, equity, inclusion, right?

01:04:04.000 They're going to be teaching you this idea of white privilege.

01:04:07.000 I'm sure will be laced throughout it.

01:04:09.000 Have you started the class yet?

01:04:10.000 Or September, it starts.

01:04:12.000 It's in September.

01:04:13.000 Yeah.

01:04:14.000 If only Hillsdale was able to educate every single one of our future educators.

01:04:20.000 So, oh, yeah, come to Dream City, come to Dream City Christian.

01:04:24.000 And by the way, I mean, there's some wonderful things that are happening at GCU.

01:04:27.000 I don't mean to offend anybody, but the amount of stories of what has happened at GCU of how woke they've become, I'm honestly tired of them getting a hall pass.

01:04:33.000 Like everyone plays nice with GCU.

01:04:35.000 They're super woke.

01:04:36.000 Just be honest about it, okay?

01:04:38.000 I hope they improve.

01:04:39.000 I hope things get better, but they've gone off the reservation a long time ago.

01:04:42.000 I really hope it gets back on.

01:04:44.000 You know, there's something you can do if you get in the class.

01:04:46.000 You have to take the classes.

01:04:47.000 Just ask questions.

01:04:48.000 And the three questions you ought to ask are questions you can use for almost any issue.

01:04:53.000 The first question is: what do you mean by that?

01:04:55.000 So, as they say, social justice, what do you mean by social justice?

01:04:58.000 Can you define those terms for me?

01:05:00.000 Second question: How did you come to that conclusion?

01:05:04.000 In other words, why do you think this is a good thing and a right thing and a true thing?

01:05:08.000 What evidence do you have for that?

01:05:10.000 And then the third question is an opportunity for you to provide some evidence back, such as, have you ever considered that there really isn't social justice or racial justice or gender justice?

01:05:22.000 There's just justice.

01:05:24.000 Okay, so those three questions, by the way, we have an app, the cross-examined app, two words in the app store.

01:05:29.000 We have those questions.

01:05:30.000 And the question I mentioned earlier, too: if Christianity were true, would you become a Christian?

01:05:35.000 It's easier to ask questions, it's hard to answer them.

01:05:39.000 And if you ask enough questions, you're going to be able to drill down on the other person to the point that they're not going to be able to support their position because there really isn't intellectual justification for their position.

01:05:53.000 So always ask questions.

01:05:54.000 What do you mean by that?

01:05:55.000 How'd you come to that conclusion?

01:05:56.000 Have you ever considered?

01:05:57.000 By the way, parents, these are questions you can use for anything, not just Christianity or politics.

01:06:03.000 I mean, you can use it with your kids.

01:06:05.000 Like, for example, your son calls you one night and says, Dad, I'm not going to be home by 11 like you wanted me to.

01:06:10.000 Don't panic.

01:06:12.000 Just first question, what do you mean by that?

01:06:15.000 Second question, how'd you come to that conclusion?

01:06:19.000 Third question: Have you ever considered if you're not home by 11, you're grounded for two weeks?

01:06:23.000 Be right home, Dad.

01:06:24.000 By the way, husbands, husbands, husbands, never, ever, ever use these questions on your wife. 1.00

01:06:30.000 Because if she calls you an idiot, don't say, what do you mean by that? 0.99

01:06:35.000 You know, how'd you come to that conclusion? 1.00

01:06:38.000 Because my wife's going to have a list 36 years long. 1.00

01:06:41.000 All right.

01:06:42.000 And look, the Bible is very clear.

01:06:43.000 In Leviticus, I believe it says that in dealings of justice, you do not favor the poor man or you do not penalize the rich man.

01:06:50.000 Justice is blind.

01:06:51.000 Our idea of justice derived from the Bible is, and that's literally why lady justice is blind in our court proceedings. 1.00

01:06:58.000 It's blind to the rich man, blind to the poor man.

01:07:01.000 And so in dealings, this is a biblical principle of all being equal under God in equality under the divine.

01:07:07.000 Idea of social justice, again, there might be very good people that mean like, well, we're going to help the poor and all of that.

01:07:14.000 Let's stop being naive, everybody, okay?

01:07:16.000 The two words social justice, every single time it is uttered, is being used by revolutionaries to try to bring Marxism, postmodernism, secularism, critical race theory into our classrooms.

01:07:25.000 Like, we don't have to tolerate this anymore, okay?

01:07:28.000 Instead, what we should talk about is the Western idea of equality under the law, right?

01:07:33.000 Instead of dividing people into these little sub-brackets, which again, I'm a little bit conjecturing here, but I've heard about these social justice and education courses. 0.90

01:07:41.000 Well, you must treat your black kids differently than your white kids. 0.64

01:07:43.000 Wow, that sounds like racism in education, actually, not social justice in education. 0.55

01:07:48.000 How about treating everybody as human beings made in the image of God as image bearers and not caring at all about the melanin content in their skin?

01:07:55.000 And the best way to quote unquote be just is to challenge people, regardless how they look, and say that I believe that God has a future for you and a prosperity for you, and I'm not going to subdivide you in different brackets or different buckets.

01:08:10.000 America at its best was always trying to achieve that type of nation, and those sort of narratives and those sort of classes, unfortunately, seek to unravel it.

01:08:18.000 God bless you.

01:08:19.000 Thanks for being here.

01:08:20.000 Thank you.

01:08:21.000 This will be the final question, unless there's one more over there.

01:08:24.000 Yes.

01:08:25.000 Frank.

01:08:26.000 How old are you?

01:08:30.000 How old am I?

01:08:32.000 What do you mean by that?

01:08:33.000 Yeah.

01:08:34.000 Good question.

01:08:36.000 Well, let me put it this way.

01:08:38.000 When I turned 50, my wife said, you're going to live to be 100.

01:08:41.000 I said, how do you know?

01:08:42.000 She said, because you look half dead already.

01:08:46.000 I'm 60.

01:08:47.000 I'm 68 and a half.

01:08:50.000 Frank, looking back over your life, to give you some perspective, where do you think we're going to be in five years or 10 years?

01:09:00.000 As a nation?

01:09:03.000 I'm not a prophet.

01:09:04.000 I don't know.

01:09:05.000 It depends on whether...

01:09:07.000 Well, Charlie, you pick this up here because I heard you talk about this the other night that we may have turned a corner, Charlie.

01:09:13.000 Yeah, so if you're asking about the nation, kind of, right, as the country, I think that it's impossible to know, and that should be very comforting.

01:09:23.000 So I do a lot of traveling.

01:09:24.000 I do a lot of speaking.

01:09:25.000 I did 330 speaking events last year all across the country on the road nonstop.

01:09:32.000 And thank you.

01:09:34.000 No, you should be applauding my wife.

01:09:36.000 That's who you should be applauding, by the way, Erica.

01:09:39.000 And here's what I'll say: is that there is a, I believe, an unclean spirit that sometimes comes into conservative grassroots patriot circles as if they've got it all figured out and that this ship is going down and it really doesn't matter.

01:09:55.000 They're like, yeah, I'll vote.

01:09:57.000 I'll show up.

01:09:58.000 But I kind of say, oh, Charlie, come on, you've studied the Romans.

01:10:01.000 You've studied the other empires.

01:10:03.000 We're done.

01:10:04.000 And I think that is very dangerous.

01:10:06.000 In fact, I think it's wrong. 0.95

01:10:07.000 I think it's unbiblical.

01:10:09.000 I think that we must reject that totally and completely. 0.98

01:10:12.000 And I'll give you a couple of reasons why.

01:10:14.000 As long as you and I have agency, free will, and choice, I'm not going to put up with that sort of premise.

01:10:22.000 It's not going to happen.

01:10:23.000 So I'm going to do everything I possibly can.

01:10:25.000 Number two is that there's never been a nation like America, period.

01:10:30.000 And so therefore, any sort of the kind of projections or predictions, it's impossible to know how a self-governing nation will fall.

01:10:40.000 You might be able to guess, but you have zero roadmap to show that, period.

01:10:45.000 Don't lecture me about ancient Greece or about the Roman or the Roman Republic.

01:10:49.000 It pales in comparison to the experiment in liberty we have right now.

01:10:53.000 So there's a lot that we don't know.

01:10:56.000 What we do know is this, though.

01:10:57.000 When you have even a little bit of liberty, it gives you a great chance to then reclaim it a little bit.

01:11:03.000 So if we still have speech, we still have the ability to assemble and spread ideas.

01:11:08.000 I think that a revival is not just, you know, likely, I think it's inevitable.

01:11:12.000 We have too many courageous, awesome people that are speaking truth right now and finally stepping up.

01:11:18.000 I believe we're going to turn that corner.

01:11:19.000 I really do.

01:11:21.000 I believe that those of us that are Christians and conservative or whatever label you want to put on it, right, not on the other side, whatever that is, that are building things and doing things, I see great hope and optimism.

01:11:33.000 Am I being foolishly optimistic?

01:11:35.000 No, I could go on for an hour of what we're up against, right?

01:11:38.000 They control the FBI, they control the CIA, they control academia, they control big media.

01:11:44.000 Okay, Genesis 11, you try to build superstructures up against God.

01:11:47.000 God will scatter you into confusion and not take that well.

01:11:50.000 But God will always reward the courageous and the righteous.

01:11:54.000 So to answer your question, if I told you I'm super optimistic about the future of America, I said, you know what?

01:11:59.000 We got this thing in the bag.

01:12:00.000 Many of you would go home and you'd say, hey, I don't have to work.

01:12:04.000 I don't have to vote because Charlie says we have it in the bag.

01:12:07.000 If I said, hey, I'm super pessimistic about the future of America, you'd go home and say, that's it.

01:12:11.000 I'm done.

01:12:12.000 I'm just going to keep buying those pillows and that will be my contribution.

01:12:19.000 I will sleep well through the revolution.

01:12:23.000 And no back pain, thanks to Relief Factor, right?

01:12:30.000 No, the answer is we don't know.

01:12:33.000 And I think that's the most empowering thing.

01:12:34.000 But here's what I can say: the trajectory is good.

01:12:38.000 For those of us as far as where the grassroots is, I think we're going to be up against the big getting crushed in the next five years.

01:12:45.000 I think the theme we're about to see.

01:12:47.000 I think you're about to see big government be scattered into confusion, big media get scattered into confusion.

01:12:52.000 I think big finance, I think bigness is about to have its day in court.

01:12:56.000 And the small, rambunctious citizen that has been building steadily and loyally and righteously, I think is going to rise to a way that people never would have imagined.

01:13:08.000 One last thing on this.

01:13:10.000 It is not our responsibility to win anything.

01:13:14.000 It is our responsibility to be faithful.

01:13:16.000 So even if you're Jeremiah in a cistern and the whole nation is turned against you, you just keep preaching the truth and doing the truth because your sanctification is part of the whole process.

01:13:31.000 It's not just about trying to sanctify the nation.

01:13:35.000 You're trying to sanctify yourself and become more like Jesus, regardless of whether or not you're by the world standards victorious.

01:13:44.000 So just do what's right.

01:13:45.000 Leave the results to God.

01:13:46.000 Thank you for being here tonight.

01:13:48.000 Thank you.

01:13:50.000 So in closing, everybody, Frank has these books outside there.

01:13:53.000 Also, just an announcement.

01:13:55.000 We're now on three hours of local Phoenix Radio, the Charlie Kirk show.

01:13:59.000 AM 960.

01:14:01.000 We're on 9 to 10.

01:14:03.000 And then fast forward from 6 to 8 p.m.

01:14:06.000 So if you're ever in the car, supporting local radio, I think is super important.

01:14:09.000 I'll just make one pledge, just one pitch on this.

01:14:12.000 Local radio is going to be the hardest thing for the sensors to shut off, literally.

01:14:16.000 Just from a technical standpoint, radio is something that, unless they literally take down the towers, right?

01:14:22.000 And so supporting local radio, don't forget that.

01:14:24.000 It's, I think, going to actually have a revival in a couple of years.

01:14:27.000 And Frank, you're on radio stations across the country too.

01:14:29.000 Yeah, we're on the American Family Radio Network, but just go to our website, crosexamine.org.

01:14:34.000 You can see our podcast.

01:14:35.000 It's called I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist.

01:14:37.000 And we're going to have Frank's stuff all over our podcast in the coming week. 0.53

01:14:40.000 So again, if you have a young person in your life, try to recruit one student to Dream City.

01:14:46.000 Christian, a Turning Point Academy.

01:14:47.000 That's a marching order. 0.75

01:14:48.000 Find one young person.

01:14:50.000 I know that we had one that just is enrolling, right?

01:14:53.000 That's awesome.

01:14:54.000 And so try to find one young person and recruit them.

01:14:57.000 And again, everybody, we have primary season coming up and election season coming up.

01:15:01.000 We're never going to tell you who to vote for here.

01:15:03.000 We're not into that.

01:15:04.000 We're about education.

01:15:05.000 We're about spirituality.

01:15:06.000 We're about revival.

01:15:07.000 But I will say this, you should vote.

01:15:10.000 Every single person needs to vote in this upcoming primary and needs to vote in November.

01:15:15.000 What about the student summit?

01:15:16.000 Tell them about that.

01:15:16.000 Oh, that's right.

01:15:17.000 And if you want to make the trek all the way to Tampa, Florida, we have our Turning Point USA Student Action Summit, which I think is one of the most amazing collection of speakers imaginable.

01:15:27.000 We have Greg Gutfeld, we have Laura Ingram, Josh Hawley, Ted Cruz.

01:15:30.000 And then we have some two smaller speakers hosted by Turning Point Action.

01:15:34.000 Ron DeSantis and Donald Trump will both be there, which will be pretty great.

01:15:38.000 So Tampa, Florida, July 23, 22, 23, 24.

01:15:44.000 If you guys want to go and get out of the desert blitz heat and get into the humidity and wish you were back into the desert blitz heat, it's July 22, 23, 24 in Tampa, Florida.

01:15:55.000 We're going to have a faith morning where a lot of young kids are going to give their life to the Lord.

01:15:59.000 It's awesome to see seven o'clock in the morning of young people that are excited to be there and young people that are regretting the decisions they made the Saturday night before at our Student Action Summit, just giving their life to the Lord.

01:16:09.000 It's really a beautiful thing to witness.

01:16:11.000 And as long as you believe in liberty, you're welcome.

01:16:13.000 It's pretty awesome.

01:16:14.000 So I want to thank the amazing Dream City Church again.

01:16:17.000 God bless you guys, and we'll see you next month.

01:16:19.000 Thank you.

01:16:24.000 Thank you so much for listening, everybody.

01:16:25.000 Email me your thoughts as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

01:16:28.000 Thank you so much for listening.

01:16:29.000 God bless.

01:16:33.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk. com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - July 10, 2022

'I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be An Atheist' with Apologist Frank Turek LIVE from Dream City Church

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