Frank Turek from CrossExamined joins us to talk about the resurrection, how Christians should vote this cycle, and what Christians should think of Donald Trump. Join us as always, freedom at CharlieKirkShow. Subscribe to our podcast, open up your podcast application, and become a member today. Become a Member today, membership is free and includes access to all the latest news and information. Learn how you could protect your wealth with Noble Gold Investments at NobleGoldInvestments.com. That is where I buy all of my gold. Go to Noblegold.investments.co/memberscharliekirk and start your account today! That is NoblegoldInvestments and physical delivery of precious metals! Learn how to protect your money with NobleGold.Investing in gold and precious metals is a great way to invest in the future of your life, your business, and your financial well-being. If you don't already have a gold or precious metal investment account, you can do so at Noble Gold. Investments, where you can get 20% off your first month with discount code: CHALLENGE. That's right, 20% OFF for the month! at CHALKILLERKIRK.COM! That's $20 OFF your first year of membership, and you get 10% off the entire year! CHALKERRYkirk.COMING SO MUCH MORE! You can get a FREE PRICING HERE! Learn more about your ad choices, including a FREE 7-day VIP membership when you sign up for the show, and receive a 20% discount when you place an offer of $200 or more! Chalkerrykirk is available. CHECK OUT THE CHALLENGERPRICED HERE! CHALLERRYKIRKS SHOW PRICED! Want to sponsor the show? CHILLER KIRK? CHALLNERK is giving you an ad-free version of The Charlie Kirk Show? CHILLY! CHILLED! CHECK OUR PODCAST? CHALLED HERE. CHILL OUT THE SHOW AND MORE! CHEAT AND GOT A FRIENDS TO WIN $10 OFF YOUR FIRST MONTH GET A PRICER WEEKEND VIP SUPPORTING CHALLenged HERE? CHEASTER AND FREE TRAINING AND PRODUCED TO CHANGE YOUR MEDITATION HERE AND FREE PRACTICALLY SUPPORTED?
00:00:00.000Hey everybody, my conversation with Frank Turek from Cross-Examined.
00:00:03.000We talk about the resurrection, how Christians should vote this cycle, and what Christians should think of regarding Donald Trump and more.
00:00:12.000Email us as always freedom at charliekirk.com.
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00:00:38.000He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.
00:00:45.000We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
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00:01:34.000Friday night was just an amazing event at Calvary Chapel, Tucson.
00:01:39.000And there were so many great questions and so many great testimonies.
00:01:43.000You know, Charlie, there was one, this lady got up to the microphone, she had to be in her 20s, and she looked at you and she said, Charlie, you changed my life because I went to AmFest by accident.
00:01:55.000Like, how do you go to AmFest by accident?
00:03:22.000I'm in town right now to do Arizona State.
00:03:25.000So to walk our audience through your normal campus presentation, they're intimately aware of mine, but for yours, I want to make sure you introduce yourself.
00:03:35.000Well, I wrote a book, co-wrote a book, about 20 years ago called I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist with Dr. Norman Geisler, who was A brilliant man who, by the time he died, Charlie, they figured out he had either written, co-written, or updated 129 books in his life.
00:03:52.000This guy was a machine, and I learned just about everything I know about Christianity from him, and the evidence for Christianity.
00:03:59.000So when we go to a college campus, It's called, I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist, and I present the evidence that Christianity is true through four basic sections.
00:05:12.000Yeah, it's a self-defeating statement to say there's no truth, which means relativism and postmodernism are false because they claim it's true, there's no truth.
00:05:21.000So it's just using logic in point one, does truth exist?
00:05:51.000They're very precise, they're very consistent.
00:05:54.000If you were to change any one of a number of factors about our universe virtually imperceptibly, including the natural laws themselves, Charlie, we wouldn't even exist.
00:06:01.000So that's the fine-tuning argument for God, the design argument.
00:06:05.000And the third argument for God is the moral argument, which you and I traffic in all the time.
00:06:10.000Yeah, that's where I spend most my time.
00:06:12.000By the way, Charlie, just to detour a little bit, you just did an unbelievable job at a something called a jubilee what what tell tell tell people about that i don't know if i i think i did okay no no no no i survived ladies and gentlemen you got to see these clips they're well not just the clips but the whole thing yeah it's it's out of youtube channel i want to say it's called jubilee yeah and they were very honest brokers to their credit and you've never quite seen anything like it right frank no i'm calling it the circle of satan
00:06:48.000I mean, it was hard because for the stamina, and by the way, that was an hour and a half.
00:06:53.000They didn't use about an hour of it, and I was actually okay with it because the topics we did, they got really messy, the stuff they edited out.
00:07:00.000So imagine two and a half hours, you do two and a half hours of Q&A, but you're sitting there and it's the best argument that they have constantly coming at you.
00:07:10.000And the best way I could explain it to the audience that didn't see it, we will be playing some tape maybe this hour, but definitely in future episodes, I sit in the middle and there's 20 people around me and they can rush to the chair and debate me on whatever the topic is.
00:07:25.000And then as soon as they're not doing as well, they can get voted off, so on and so forth.
00:07:29.000Right, and the first topic you were covering was abortion.
00:07:32.000So you have 20 college, liberal, woke students surrounding Charlie Kirk.
00:07:37.000One of them goes up and debates him, and when their colleagues say, hey, this kid isn't doing very well against Charlie, somebody else rushes in!
00:07:46.000and so you are just debating 20 people at once but not only 20 people but 20
00:07:50.000people who have had time to think the topic through all right when I am
00:07:54.000having a completely different cop like so I'm having conversation with you
00:07:57.000meanwhile there's 19 other people that are thinking through the best point that
00:08:00.000they have so they don't tell you the topics Oh, alright.
00:08:03.000do but think about it if you and I are talking about you know does miracles
00:08:07.000exist yeah somebody's sitting you know over there could be talking about this
00:08:10.000truth exist thinking about truth exists so they're coming up with a separate
00:08:14.000point that I haven't even oh all right does that make sense yeah yeah they're
00:08:16.000fresh I think yeah from a sports standpoint right We're playing basketball and they constantly can substitute.
00:09:01.000The moral argument says, essentially, that If there's one thing morally wrong, one thing, just one, it's wrong to torture babies for fun, it's wrong to kill six million people in a holocaust, it's wrong to shoot up nine-year-olds in a school, then there has to be a God.
00:10:29.000Well, if they're saying morality is just decided by human beings, the group, what happens when a society many years ago decided that slavery was okay?
00:10:43.000What if our society one day decides— Slavery I use, but no.
00:10:46.000The abortion thing is so true, because I would say, okay, let's go to Oklahoma, where the group has decided abortion is wrong.
00:10:53.000They'd say, no, no, no, they're wrong.
00:10:55.000How can they be wrong, if it's relative?
00:10:57.000See, if morality is just decided by human beings, then we couldn't even prosecute the Nazis for what they did.
00:11:07.000Hey everybody, Charlie Kirk here as we gear up for another important election year.
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00:12:06.000So, Frank, let's go deeper into this, because the audience thinks what we have is a political divide in this country, but it's really a moral divide.
00:12:16.000Well, there are people that think that they are the moral arbiters of right and wrong, and whatever they think is true about morality, when in fact, if it's just a personal opinion on their part, then they really don't have any moral rights.
00:12:51.000This is why, of course, our country began with, we hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men were created and endowed by their government.
00:12:57.000No, endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights.
00:13:01.000Among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
00:13:03.000So, I always ask people, what's your moral standard by saying that you have a trans right, or a right to kill an unborn child, or a right to do whatever you want to do sexually?
00:13:37.000Either human beings decide or they don't.
00:13:39.000Hey, if the Nazis had won World War II and convinced everybody that killing Jews, homosexuals, gypsies, and Jehovah's Witnesses was morally right, would that make it morally right?
00:14:35.000If you look at Muslim theology, it can't be the ultimate moral standard.
00:14:38.000The ultimate moral standard has to be an unchanging source of morality, whose nature is good, and that meets with the Jewish God, and obviously also the Christian God, because they're the same.
00:14:50.000But I think you can show through evidence, and that's why we go to college campuses and we present evidence that truth exists, God exists, miracles are possible, and Jesus rose from the dead.
00:14:59.000Look, if Jesus rose from the dead, the Christian God is the true God.
00:16:30.000Well, then you ask the question, look, if space, time, and matter had a beginning, then the only thing that could have created that is something outside of space, time, and matter.
00:16:39.000And if you're outside of time, do you have a beginning?
00:16:42.000No, you didn't have a beginning, because you're eternal.
00:16:45.000So, who made God is really a illegitimate question, because nobody made the unmade being.
00:16:54.000There has to be an uncreated creator out there.
00:16:57.000It's either the universe or something outside the universe, but all the evidence shows the universe had a beginning, so it must be something outside the universe that brought it into existence.
00:17:05.000And by the way, even Aristotle understood there had to be an unmoved mover.
00:17:10.000Now, he thought the universe was eternal, but he said, even if it is eternal, you need an unmoved mover to keep everything going in the direction it's going in.
00:17:19.000So, you don't get rid of the need for God.
00:17:22.000Even if the universe is eternal, you still need a God.
00:17:25.000Frank Turk is with us, CrossExamine.org.
00:17:27.000So much to discuss here, as you can see why I love this guy.
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00:18:38.000So Frank, when you present a lot of the evidence to an average college student, is it persuasive, or is there a heart issue that's sometimes underlying?
00:18:45.000Well, great question, because here's the question I ask anybody that gets to the microphone that expresses any hostility at all.
00:18:52.000The question is, if Christianity were true, would you become a Christian?
00:18:56.000And Charlie, I've had atheists stand at that microphone in front of hundreds of people and say, No!
00:19:12.000Because they want to be God over their own lives.
00:19:15.000They're not on a truth quest, they're on a happiness quest, and they're just going to believe whatever they think is going to make them happy.
00:19:20.000And the problem is, we can make ourselves happy over the short term, doing a lot of fun, but selfish and sinful things.
00:19:27.000Yet over the long term, it's a disaster.
00:19:30.000And anyone who's listening to us right now over 40 years old knows what I'm talking about.
00:19:34.000Many of us have tried to live for ourselves, and we realize it doesn't work out.
00:19:39.000If you live completely for yourself, you're gonna wind up divorced, alone, addicted, broken, and probably prematurely dead.
00:19:49.000And what we find on campus is a cluster of people that worship self, I think, more than any other population of the country.
00:20:03.000It comes from the human heart, that we're fallen, and we need a Savior.
00:20:08.000Our heart is deceitful and corrupt, and it wants what it wants.
00:20:11.000I have a fallen heart, you have a fallen heart, everyone listening to us has a fallen heart.
00:20:16.000And we will suppress the truth to get our own way.
00:20:20.000And the three big motivators, Charlie, the three big things that you and I and everyone listening have to protect ourselves against are an unhealthy desire for sex, money, or power.
00:20:34.000Because if it goes beyond what it should go beyond, any one of us can sink ourselves.
00:20:55.000He says whenever he finds a murdered body, Charlie, he goes, I don't need to track down a thousand motivations for why this guy was murdered.
00:21:02.000He said, I only need to find one or more of these three motivations.
00:21:05.000There was either a sex issue, a money issue, or a power issue.
00:21:09.000Those are the three things that can drive people to murder, and they're the same three things that can drive any of us to sin, to do what we ought not do, to get those good things.
00:21:20.000So, so many young people, when they get to college, they want to have sexual freedom.
00:21:51.000He said, you were at the University of Kentucky eight years ago, and after the event, I asked you a number of questions during the event, and after the event you invited me to dinner.
00:22:01.000So I don't remember this, but I took this guy to dinner, and he said that helped soften my heart to the point that I'm now a Christian.
00:22:40.000And that's where it all needs to point back to, is that we're broken by nature, but colleges, institutionally, they'll play into the depravity.
00:22:56.000Yeah, they are there to actually put forth a moral position, even though they don't have a moral standard, an objective moral standard.
00:23:05.000They're trying to say things like, if you're against a young person transitioning, you're immoral, Charlie.
00:23:11.000If you're against a young person getting an abortion, you're immoral, Charlie.
00:23:15.000If you're someone that supports, say, Donald Trump for president, because you think this nation should have borders, for example, you're immoral, Charlie.
00:23:25.000Where are they getting this moral standard from?
00:23:27.000Where are they getting it from, Charlie?
00:24:20.000I was telling Mikey and Pastor Furrow in Tucson—I don't need to speak, Frank is just doing amazing—which is, how should Christians think about this election?
00:24:29.000I think, like every election, Christians ought to vote biblically.
00:24:34.000And you say, well, Jesus wasn't involved in politics.
00:25:09.000That miracles do happen, you're right.
00:25:12.000Anyway, in Matthew 23-23, Jesus says to these politicians, he says, you've tithed your spices, mint, dill, and cumin, but you've neglected the more important matters of the law.
00:25:32.000He's saying that you have done the minor things, tithed your spices, but you're neglecting justice, the bigger issues.
00:25:42.000And we're doing the same thing in our country.
00:25:46.000Charlie we're telling people what light bulbs they can and can't use but we won't say don't murder your children Kamala Harris wants to ban plastic straws, but she doesn't want to ban child mutilation She's neglecting the more important matters of the law Jesus was was scolding these politicians for doing that.
00:26:05.000So when you go to vote, I think what you ought to do is vote on the more important matters of the law.
00:27:44.000We're together on it, except of course for life of the mother, but life of the mother, the intent is not to kill the child, the intent is to save the mother.
00:27:51.000And cesarean section should be given as the Yeah, exactly.
00:28:04.000Anyway, but we don't want to get too deep.
00:28:05.000Yeah, in any event, if a Christian votes for the Democrat, platform, what you're getting is abortion up to the moment of birth, and your tax dollars are paying for it.
00:28:20.000And overturning the 14 states that have gotten rid of abortion.
00:30:21.000And pastors and Christians need to fight.
00:30:23.000It's our issue, not the Republican Party's issue.
00:30:26.000It's our issue that we haven't been persuasive enough, we haven't talked about it enough, we haven't showed them what's going on in an abortion.
00:30:33.000In fact, I challenge anybody who's pro-abortion out there, or pro-choice right now, I want you to go to caseforlife.com, caseforlife.com, and watch the one-minute video.
00:31:00.000If you can't, if you can't stomach that one-minute video, then there's something, I don't wanna say hypocritical, but that's probably the best word for it.
00:31:07.000Yes, and I showed that video the other night at Calvary Chapel, Tucson.
00:31:22.000We had last month saving babies with preborn by providing ultrasounds.
00:31:26.000And we're doing again this year what we did last year.
00:31:28.000We're going to stand for life because remaining silent in the face of the most radically pro-death administration is not an option.
00:31:33.000As Sir Edmund Burke said, the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing, and we're not going to do nothing.
00:31:39.000Your gift to preborn will give a girl the truth about what's happening in her body so that she can make the right choice.
00:32:16.000Go to charliekirk.com, click on the pre-born banner.
00:32:21.000Frank, I want to close with the most important topic, which is, so we have does truth exist, miracles exist, does God exist, can we trust the New Testament, and you've trained me on this, that it's easy to get caught up on Joan on the Whale, you know, parting the Red Sea, all of that stuff is important, but none of it really matters unless you can the resurrection, correct?
00:32:42.000Yeah, and the greatest miracle in the Bible is not the resurrection.
00:32:45.000The greatest miracle in the Bible is the first verse.
00:32:47.000In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.
00:32:50.000If that verse is true, ladies and gentlemen, every other verse is at least possible, and even atheists are admitting the data for it.
00:32:56.000In fact, Stephen Hawking, who was the top physicist in the world, at least the most popular, until he died about six years ago, said, almost everyone now believes that the universe and time itself had a beginning at the Big Bang.
00:33:06.000Now, he didn't have an explanation for this that was plausible, but if space-time and matter had a beginning, then whatever created space-time and matter must transcend space-time and matter, must be spaceless, timeless, immaterial, powerful, personal, and intelligent, which I cover in the I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist presentation on our YouTube channel, so go see that.
00:33:50.000The resurrection is true because—look, who wrote this down, Charlie?
00:33:55.000These were Jews who thought they were God's chosen people.
00:33:58.000They had every motive to say the resurrection wasn't true.
00:34:02.000Not every motive to say it was, and they went to their deaths not for just a claim, they went to their deaths for something they said they saw, the risen Jesus.
00:34:18.000They had no motive to make up a new religion, because by saying Jesus had resurrected from the dead and saying he was God, first of all it's blasphemy to say you were God in that culture, And they didn't think one guy would rise from the dead in the middle of time.
00:34:47.000And then they go and die for it and spread it around the world.
00:34:51.000Now, why would they do this if they're making it up?
00:34:53.000Now, I like to say this, just to kind of wake people up.
00:34:57.000I say to them, Christianity is not true, Charlie, because a series of documents that we put under one binding we call the Bible says it's true.
00:35:05.000In fact, Christianity would be true if the Bible never existed.
00:37:08.000Everybody out there listening shouldn't want justice.
00:37:11.000We should want grace, that Jesus took our punishment on himself, and by trusting in him, you're not only forgiven, you're given his righteousness.