The Charlie Kirk Show - If There Is No God, There Are No Rights ft. Frank Turek

00:00:00.000 Hey everybody, my conversation with Frank Turek from Cross-Examined.

00:00:03.000 We talk about the resurrection, how Christians should vote this cycle, and what Christians should think of regarding Donald Trump and more.

00:00:12.000 Email us as always freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:00:14.000 Subscribe to our podcast, open up your podcast application, and type in charliekirkshow.

00:00:18.000 Become a member today, members.charliekirk.com.

00:00:21.000 That is members.charliekirk.com.

00:00:22.000 Buckle up everybody, here we go!

00:00:24.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:26.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

00:00:28.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

00:00:31.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks!

00:00:35.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:00:36.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:00:37.000 His spirit, his love of this country.

00:00:38.000 He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.

00:00:45.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

00:00:54.000 That's why we are here.

00:00:57.000 Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of The Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals.

00:01:07.000 Learn how you could protect your wealth with Noble Gold Investments at noblegoldinvestments.com.

00:01:14.000 That is noblegoldinvestments.com.

00:01:16.000 It's where I buy all of my gold.

00:01:18.000 Go to noblegoldinvestments.com.

00:01:22.000 Joining us now is one of my favorite people, Frank Turek.

00:01:25.000 Frank, good to see you, man.

00:01:26.000 The great Charlie Kirk, man.

00:01:28.000 Oh, well, thank you.

00:01:28.000 I'll give you a haircut because it's hard to go over.

00:01:30.000 But yes, Frank, thank you so much for everything you do.

00:01:32.000 We had a great event on Friday night.

00:01:34.000 We did.

00:01:34.000 Friday night was just an amazing event at Calvary Chapel, Tucson.

00:01:39.000 And there were so many great questions and so many great testimonies.

00:01:43.000 You know, Charlie, there was one, this lady got up to the microphone, she had to be in her 20s, and she looked at you and she said, Charlie, you changed my life because I went to AmFest by accident.

00:01:55.000 Like, how do you go to AmFest by accident?

00:01:57.000 She was so sweet.

00:01:59.000 I wanted to get the full story there.

00:02:01.000 Anyway, she met her future husband at AmFest and went from a feminist To now somebody who is a conservative because of AmFest.

00:02:12.000 She wants to be a mom. 1.00

00:02:13.000 Oh yeah, yeah.

00:02:14.000 So it was just an amazing night.

00:02:16.000 It was a Hands of Hope night, which is a crisis pregnancy center there in Tucson that we were trying to help raise money for.

00:02:22.000 And we're trying to encourage people to vote pro-life, particularly here in Arizona.

00:02:26.000 Big time.

00:02:28.000 Amendment 139.

00:02:29.000 No on 139, ladies and gentlemen.

00:02:31.000 It's a real challenge right now.

00:02:33.000 It is.

00:02:34.000 Yeah.

00:02:35.000 As you pointed out, the abortion lobby is very well funded, and they are also shading the truth quite a bit.

00:02:44.000 And if this passes in Arizona, you could kill your child up to the moment of birth.

00:02:50.000 It's a Kamala Harris position, actually. 0.98

00:02:52.000 It is.

00:02:52.000 It would be the Kamala Harris abortion agenda in Arizona.

00:02:55.000 That's right, yeah.

00:02:57.000 And so, no on 139, ladies and gentlemen.

00:03:00.000 We had a great turnout and great spirit, though.

00:03:01.000 We did.

00:03:02.000 I gotta say, it was really terrific.

00:03:03.000 They said it was the biggest event they've done in quite some time.

00:03:06.000 It was.

00:03:07.000 Robert Furrow, the pastor at Calvary Chapel Tucson was great, a great host, and we took over an hour of questions.

00:03:12.000 I don't think this is online yet, but it will be at some point.

00:03:15.000 Oh yeah, and it was really good dialogue, really good back and forth.

00:03:18.000 So Frank, you do campus stuff.

00:03:20.000 Oh yeah, all the time.

00:03:21.000 Campus stuff.

00:03:22.000 I'm in town right now to do Arizona State.

00:03:25.000 So to walk our audience through your normal campus presentation, they're intimately aware of mine, but for yours, I want to make sure you introduce yourself.

00:03:34.000 What is your schtick that you do?

00:03:35.000 Well, I wrote a book, co-wrote a book, about 20 years ago called I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist with Dr. Norman Geisler, who was A brilliant man who, by the time he died, Charlie, they figured out he had either written, co-written, or updated 129 books in his life.

00:03:52.000 Wow.

00:03:52.000 This guy was a machine, and I learned just about everything I know about Christianity from him, and the evidence for Christianity.

00:03:59.000 So when we go to a college campus, It's called, I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist, and I present the evidence that Christianity is true through four basic sections.

00:04:07.000 Does truth exist?

00:04:08.000 Does God exist?

00:04:09.000 Are miracles possible?

00:04:11.000 And, is the New Testament telling us the truth about the Resurrection?

00:04:14.000 So that's your presentation on campus?

00:04:15.000 That's it!

00:04:16.000 And then I take questions, and questions go on for an hour, sometimes more.

00:04:20.000 And, of course, we get questions from atheists and people of other faiths, and all that is live-streamed.

00:04:25.000 If they go to our YouTube channel, Cross-Examined YouTube channel, two words, Cross-Examined, you can see every event we do.

00:04:31.000 And then we take the Q&A just like you guys do from your college campus events.

00:04:36.000 We splice it up.

00:04:37.000 Here's a question.

00:04:38.000 Here's an answer.

00:04:39.000 And so our website's crossexamined.org, and the YouTube channel is Two Words Cross-Examined.

00:04:45.000 So we've been doing this for about 18 years now.

00:04:50.000 And our events are probably an hour and a half of me presenting, and then an hour or more of Q&A.

00:04:57.000 Wow, so let's go through those four points.

00:04:59.000 Miracles exist.

00:05:00.000 Well, the first one is, does truth exist?

00:05:02.000 Because a lot of people are saying, you know, there's no truth, you have your truth, I have my truth.

00:05:05.000 And whenever someone says, there is no truth, I always ask them, is that true?

00:05:10.000 Is it true that there's no truth?

00:05:12.000 Yeah, it's a self-defeating statement to say there's no truth, which means relativism and postmodernism are false because they claim it's true, there's no truth.

00:05:21.000 So it's just using logic in point one, does truth exist?

00:05:24.000 That's the first one.

00:05:25.000 Then we move on to does God exist, and we give three arguments for the existence of God.

00:05:31.000 The first argument is the argument from the beginning of the universe, known as the cosmological argument.

00:05:35.000 The second argument is the argument from design, known as the teleological argument.

00:05:38.000 So the universe is designed, highly fine-tuned, and you and I are designed, and life in general is designed.

00:05:44.000 In fact, the natural laws that drive the universe are designed.

00:05:48.000 The natural laws themselves!

00:05:50.000 Laws come from lawgivers.

00:05:51.000 They're very precise, they're very consistent.

00:05:54.000 If you were to change any one of a number of factors about our universe virtually imperceptibly, including the natural laws themselves, Charlie, we wouldn't even exist.

00:06:01.000 So that's the fine-tuning argument for God, the design argument.

00:06:05.000 And the third argument for God is the moral argument, which you and I traffic in all the time.

00:06:10.000 Yeah, that's where I spend most my time.

00:06:12.000 By the way, Charlie, just to detour a little bit, you just did an unbelievable job at a something called a jubilee what what tell tell tell people about that i don't know if i i think i did okay no no no no i survived ladies and gentlemen you got to see these clips they're well not just the clips but the whole thing yeah it's it's out of youtube channel i want to say it's called jubilee yeah and they were very honest brokers to their credit and you've never quite seen anything like it right frank no i'm calling it the circle of satan

00:06:44.000 That would be a fair description.

00:06:47.000 That was hard.

00:06:48.000 I mean, it was hard because for the stamina, and by the way, that was an hour and a half.

00:06:53.000 They didn't use about an hour of it, and I was actually okay with it because the topics we did, they got really messy, the stuff they edited out.

00:07:00.000 So imagine two and a half hours, you do two and a half hours of Q&A, but you're sitting there and it's the best argument that they have constantly coming at you.

00:07:10.000 And the best way I could explain it to the audience that didn't see it, we will be playing some tape maybe this hour, but definitely in future episodes, I sit in the middle and there's 20 people around me and they can rush to the chair and debate me on whatever the topic is.

00:07:25.000 And then as soon as they're not doing as well, they can get voted off, so on and so forth.

00:07:29.000 Right, and the first topic you were covering was abortion.

00:07:32.000 So you have 20 college, liberal, woke students surrounding Charlie Kirk.

00:07:37.000 One of them goes up and debates him, and when their colleagues say, hey, this kid isn't doing very well against Charlie, somebody else rushes in!

00:07:46.000 and so you are just debating 20 people at once but not only 20 people but 20

00:07:50.000 people who have had time to think the topic through all right when I am

00:07:54.000 having a completely different cop like so I'm having conversation with you

00:07:57.000 meanwhile there's 19 other people that are thinking through the best point that

00:08:00.000 they have so they don't tell you the topics Oh, alright.

00:08:03.000 do but think about it if you and I are talking about you know does miracles

00:08:07.000 exist yeah somebody's sitting you know over there could be talking about this

00:08:10.000 truth exist thinking about truth exists so they're coming up with a separate

00:08:14.000 point that I haven't even oh all right does that make sense yeah yeah they're

00:08:16.000 fresh I think yeah from a sports standpoint right We're playing basketball and they constantly can substitute.

00:08:24.000 It's more like boxing.

00:08:25.000 You know, you get somebody on the ropes and there's a new guy that comes in.

00:08:27.000 That's exactly right.

00:08:28.000 And so if you think I did well, Frank, that's very touching.

00:08:31.000 I will say, I think I kept my calm well.

00:08:33.000 You did.

00:08:34.000 Which is half the battle in this.

00:08:36.000 Right.

00:08:36.000 You should see the comments on it in YouTube, folks.

00:08:38.000 A lot of people are saying, these kids, they get too emotional.

00:08:42.000 It just takes away from any argument they have.

00:08:44.000 And so you held your ground very well.

00:08:46.000 You're very calm and cool.

00:08:48.000 That is a hard gig.

00:08:49.000 Really hard gig.

00:08:50.000 That was one of the hardest ones that I did.

00:08:54.000 And the topics were about this kind of the moral argument.

00:08:59.000 Yeah.

00:09:00.000 So build that out.

00:09:01.000 All right.

00:09:01.000 The moral argument says, essentially, that If there's one thing morally wrong, one thing, just one, it's wrong to torture babies for fun, it's wrong to kill six million people in a holocaust, it's wrong to shoot up nine-year-olds in a school, then there has to be a God.

00:09:19.000 Why?

00:09:19.000 Because if there is no standard beyond humanity, That we're obligated to obey, then everything's just a matter of opinion.

00:09:26.000 That would just be your opinion against a school shooter's opinion or your opinion against Hitler's opinion.

00:09:31.000 Well, we know these issues aren't just a matter of opinion.

00:09:34.000 It's really wrong to murder school children.

00:09:36.000 It's really wrong to murder six million people in a Holocaust. 0.66

00:09:39.000 If that's the case, there must be a standard of really right outside of ourselves that we're all obligated to obey.

00:09:44.000 That we're all appealing to.

00:09:45.000 Yes, that standard is God's nature.

00:09:47.000 If God doesn't exist, nothing's ultimately right or wrong.

00:09:51.000 Now, kids on a college campus... No, this is where all my conversations get to spill back to, Frank, and this is what people understand.

00:09:58.000 And you get it, because you're on these campuses more than I am, actually, sometimes.

00:10:02.000 But that we'll be talking about abortion, but then it will go back down to, but who's to say it is wrong?

00:10:07.000 Who's to say it's wrong?

00:10:09.000 And eventually there will be this tension where they say, well, morality is derived amongst the group or the tribe.

00:10:15.000 That's what they'll say.

00:10:16.000 That morality is based on up or down vote and just kind of societal norms and customs.

00:10:20.000 But if a society decided abortion was wrong and outlawed, they would still say, no, it's a right.

00:10:25.000 See, so they don't agree with their own premise.

00:10:27.000 That's very interesting.

00:10:27.000 I've never heard.

00:10:28.000 So build that out a little bit.

00:10:29.000 Well, if they're saying morality is just decided by human beings, the group, what happens when a society many years ago decided that slavery was okay?

00:10:40.000 Did that make it okay?

00:10:42.000 No.

00:10:43.000 What if our society one day decides— Slavery I use, but no.

00:10:46.000 The abortion thing is so true, because I would say, okay, let's go to Oklahoma, where the group has decided abortion is wrong.

00:10:53.000 They'd say, no, no, no, they're wrong.

00:10:55.000 How can they be wrong, if it's relative?

00:10:57.000 See, if morality is just decided by human beings, then we couldn't even prosecute the Nazis for what they did. 0.59

00:11:07.000 Hey everybody, Charlie Kirk here as we gear up for another important election year.

00:11:10.000 Remember that we vote every day with our dollar.

00:11:12.000 One of the best ways to support America is by buying from local farms and ranches.

00:11:16.000 Good Ranchers makes this easy by delivering 100% American meat to your door.

00:11:21.000 When you shop with Good Ranchers, you're not just getting the best meat for your family, but also supporting American farmers and ranchers.

00:11:27.000 This year, instead of buying imported meat, cast your vote for American agriculture and local economy.

00:11:33.000 I've used Good Ranchers meat for quite some time and they never disappoint.

00:11:36.000 Whatever your choice of protein, you'll be pleased if you cast a vote for Good Ranchers.

00:11:40.000 Use code KIRK for $25 off your order and your choice of free chicken breasts, ground beef, bacon, or wild-caught salmon for a year.

00:11:47.000 It's time to make a stand.

00:11:48.000 Vote for American meat with Good Ranchers. 0.90

00:11:50.000 Your purchase helps keep American farms thriving and ensures you get the highest quality meat for your family.

00:11:56.000 I love Good Ranchers.

00:11:57.000 You should check it out right now at GoodRanchers.com.

00:11:59.000 Use promo code KIRK.

00:12:01.000 That is GoodRanchers.com.

00:12:02.000 Check it out right now.

00:12:03.000 Promo code KIRK.

00:12:06.000 So, Frank, let's go deeper into this, because the audience thinks what we have is a political divide in this country, but it's really a moral divide.

00:12:13.000 It's a worldview divide.

00:12:15.000 What do you mean by that?

00:12:16.000 Well, there are people that think that they are the moral arbiters of right and wrong, and whatever they think is true about morality, when in fact, if it's just a personal opinion on their part, then they really don't have any moral rights.

00:12:33.000 It's just their opinion.

00:12:35.000 You know, if there's no God, there are no rights.

00:12:36.000 There's not only no right to abortion, there's no right to life. 0.95

00:12:41.000 There's not only no right to same-sex marriage, there's no right to natural marriage. 1.00

00:12:44.000 There are no trans rights, Christian rights, human rights. 1.00

00:12:47.000 There are no rights anywhere if there's no God.

00:12:50.000 Everything's a matter of opinion.

00:12:51.000 This is why, of course, our country began with, we hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men were created and endowed by their government.

00:12:57.000 No, endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights.

00:13:01.000 Among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

00:13:03.000 So, I always ask people, what's your moral standard by saying that you have a trans right, or a right to kill an unborn child, or a right to do whatever you want to do sexually?

00:13:14.000 Where does that come from?

00:13:15.000 Where do you think that comes from?

00:13:16.000 And they don't have an answer, because there isn't an answer.

00:13:19.000 Or they'll go down the road you mentioned, which is a group.

00:13:23.000 Is that the one that you get quite often?

00:13:25.000 Yeah, well, the group decides.

00:13:26.000 The problem is when they run into that, then, as you said, if Oklahoma decides abortion's wrong, they're going to say, no, it's a right!

00:13:35.000 No, you can't have it both ways.

00:13:37.000 Either human beings decide or they don't.

00:13:39.000 Hey, if the Nazis had won World War II and convinced everybody that killing Jews, homosexuals, gypsies, and Jehovah's Witnesses was morally right, would that make it morally right? 0.73

00:13:50.000 No.

00:13:51.000 There's a standard beyond human opinion that we're all appealing to.

00:13:54.000 The question is, do you have that standard in your worldview, or are you just the moral arbiter of the universe?

00:14:00.000 And sometimes they will say, Frank, but who's God and what standard?

00:14:05.000 Is it Islamic, Christian? 0.84

00:14:07.000 How do you navigate that objection, which I'm sure you receive quite often.

00:14:09.000 Yeah, well, first of all, you don't need to know whether it's the Christian God or the Muslim God from natural law.

00:14:15.000 Which is what Jefferson's appealing to, that there has to be a God out there whose nature is the moral standard.

00:14:21.000 Now, according to Muslim theology, Allah is not the moral standard.

00:14:25.000 Allah is arbitrary. 1.00

00:14:26.000 Whatever Allah does is good.

00:14:28.000 So Allah could wake up tomorrow and say rape is good, and you'd obey that. 1.00

00:14:32.000 Just it's based on authority.

00:14:35.000 If you look at Muslim theology, it can't be the ultimate moral standard. 0.87

00:14:38.000 The ultimate moral standard has to be an unchanging source of morality, whose nature is good, and that meets with the Jewish God, and obviously also the Christian God, because they're the same. 0.57

00:14:50.000 But I think you can show through evidence, and that's why we go to college campuses and we present evidence that truth exists, God exists, miracles are possible, and Jesus rose from the dead.

00:14:59.000 Look, if Jesus rose from the dead, the Christian God is the true God. 0.95

00:15:02.000 No, that is the whole ballgame.

00:15:04.000 We know creation happened, because that's self-evident.

00:15:07.000 Genesis 1-1 and the resurrection are the only two miracles you need to know.

00:15:10.000 That's right, exactly.

00:15:11.000 Not to say that other miracles didn't happen, but even if those other miracles didn't happen, that doesn't matter as much.

00:15:17.000 Is that correct?

00:15:19.000 What I say to people when we get to, are miracles possible?

00:15:21.000 Is, if you don't think miracles are possible, look around, you're living in one.

00:15:26.000 This universe is a miracle.

00:15:27.000 Our existence.

00:15:28.000 Right, our existence is a miracle.

00:15:29.000 And even atheists now, Charlie, as you know, are admitting the evidence for the first miracle. 0.89

00:15:34.000 They don't think it's God, but what else could it be?

00:15:36.000 If space, time, and matter had a beginning out of nothing, which is what the evidence shows... And something outside of it.

00:15:41.000 Yeah, it's got to be something outside of it.

00:15:43.000 They use quantum physics, have you heard that answer?

00:15:45.000 Oh yeah, that's Lawrence Krauss here at Arizona State.

00:15:47.000 How do I respond to that?

00:15:48.000 Can you explain the argument to our audience?

00:15:51.000 Lawrence Krauss, who used to teach here at Arizona State, said that nothing can produce something because nothing is actually something.

00:15:59.000 Nothing is a quantum vacuum.

00:16:01.000 When in his world, even atheists are poo-pooing his argument because a quantum vacuum is not nothing.

00:16:07.000 A quantum vacuum is still a sea of fluctuating energy, which would itself need to be created.

00:16:13.000 So even if a universe could come from a quantum vacuum, Where did the quantum vacuum come from?

00:16:18.000 You get back to an ultimate, spaceless, timeless, immaterial, powerful, personal, intelligent creator.

00:16:25.000 They then respond to me, but then who created God, right?

00:16:28.000 So it eventually gets back to this.

00:16:30.000 Well, then you ask the question, look, if space, time, and matter had a beginning, then the only thing that could have created that is something outside of space, time, and matter.

00:16:39.000 And if you're outside of time, do you have a beginning?

00:16:42.000 No, you didn't have a beginning, because you're eternal.

00:16:45.000 So, who made God is really a illegitimate question, because nobody made the unmade being.

00:16:54.000 There has to be an uncreated creator out there.

00:16:57.000 It's either the universe or something outside the universe, but all the evidence shows the universe had a beginning, so it must be something outside the universe that brought it into existence.

00:17:05.000 And by the way, even Aristotle understood there had to be an unmoved mover.

00:17:10.000 That's correct.

00:17:10.000 Now, he thought the universe was eternal, but he said, even if it is eternal, you need an unmoved mover to keep everything going in the direction it's going in.

00:17:19.000 So, you don't get rid of the need for God.

00:17:22.000 Even if the universe is eternal, you still need a God.

00:17:25.000 Frank Turk is with us, CrossExamine.org.

00:17:27.000 So much to discuss here, as you can see why I love this guy.

00:17:31.000 And he goes to college campuses.

00:17:33.000 He does a great job.

00:17:34.000 We're going to do one together in the spring.

00:17:35.000 We got to.

00:17:36.000 It'll be a blast.

00:17:36.000 It'll be great.

00:17:39.000 If your approach to everyday aches and pains is to mask them, you know, feel better for a few hours only to have the pain return and then repeat the cycle all over again.

00:17:48.000 It's time to try Relief Factor.

00:17:51.000 And the good news is Relief Factor makes it quite easy.

00:17:53.000 Their 3-week quick start is just $19.95, less than a dollar a day.

00:17:59.000 Instead of masking pain, ReliefFactor helps eliminate it.

00:18:02.000 How?

00:18:03.000 Well, its unique formula of natural ingredients helps support your body's response to inflammation.

00:18:09.000 ReliefFactor was developed by doctors.

00:18:11.000 It's 100% drug-free.

00:18:13.000 And for so many people, the results are game-changing, even life-changing.

00:18:18.000 Right now, their three-week quick start is just $19.95.

00:18:22.000 Go to relieffactor.com or call 1-800-4-RELIEF.

00:18:26.000 That is 1-800-4-RELIEF.

00:18:28.000 See how in a few weeks or even a few days, Relief Factor can reduce your pain.

00:18:32.000 So, don't mask your pain.

00:18:33.000 Fight naturally with Relief Factor, relieffactor.com.

00:18:38.000 So Frank, when you present a lot of the evidence to an average college student, is it persuasive, or is there a heart issue that's sometimes underlying?

00:18:45.000 Well, great question, because here's the question I ask anybody that gets to the microphone that expresses any hostility at all.

00:18:52.000 The question is, if Christianity were true, would you become a Christian? 0.92

00:18:56.000 And Charlie, I've had atheists stand at that microphone in front of hundreds of people and say, No! 0.97

00:19:01.000 And I say, No?

00:19:03.000 How is it reasonable?

00:19:04.000 You wouldn't believe something that was true.

00:19:06.000 Well, it's not a matter of reason, Charlie.

00:19:07.000 It's not a matter of the head.

00:19:08.000 It's a matter of the heart.

00:19:09.000 They don't want it to be true.

00:19:11.000 They don't want there to be a God.

00:19:12.000 Why?

00:19:12.000 Because they want to be God over their own lives.

00:19:15.000 They're not on a truth quest, they're on a happiness quest, and they're just going to believe whatever they think is going to make them happy.

00:19:20.000 And the problem is, we can make ourselves happy over the short term, doing a lot of fun, but selfish and sinful things.

00:19:27.000 Yet over the long term, it's a disaster.

00:19:30.000 And anyone who's listening to us right now over 40 years old knows what I'm talking about.

00:19:34.000 Many of us have tried to live for ourselves, and we realize it doesn't work out.

00:19:39.000 If you live completely for yourself, you're gonna wind up divorced, alone, addicted, broken, and probably prematurely dead.

00:19:49.000 And what we find on campus is a cluster of people that worship self, I think, more than any other population of the country.

00:19:57.000 Is that probably true?

00:19:58.000 Yeah, it's me-ology, not theology.

00:20:00.000 That's what it is.

00:20:01.000 Where does that come from?

00:20:03.000 It comes from the human heart, that we're fallen, and we need a Savior.

00:20:08.000 Our heart is deceitful and corrupt, and it wants what it wants.

00:20:11.000 I have a fallen heart, you have a fallen heart, everyone listening to us has a fallen heart.

00:20:16.000 And we will suppress the truth to get our own way.

00:20:20.000 And the three big motivators, Charlie, the three big things that you and I and everyone listening have to protect ourselves against are an unhealthy desire for sex, money, or power.

00:20:34.000 Because if it goes beyond what it should go beyond, any one of us can sink ourselves.

00:20:38.000 Yeah, that's right.

00:20:38.000 Because sex, money, and power are good things.

00:20:40.000 In fact, they're so good, we'll often take shortcuts to get them.

00:20:43.000 Yes.

00:20:43.000 And that's why we sin.

00:20:45.000 In fact, my cold case homicide detective buddy... Yeah, he's great.

00:20:49.000 Jay Warner Wallace... I've been wanting to have him on the show for a while, but yeah.

00:20:52.000 Yeah, I'll connect you with him.

00:20:55.000 He says whenever he finds a murdered body, Charlie, he goes, I don't need to track down a thousand motivations for why this guy was murdered.

00:21:02.000 He said, I only need to find one or more of these three motivations.

00:21:05.000 There was either a sex issue, a money issue, or a power issue.

00:21:09.000 Those are the three things that can drive people to murder, and they're the same three things that can drive any of us to sin, to do what we ought not do, to get those good things.

00:21:20.000 So, so many young people, when they get to college, they want to have sexual freedom.

00:21:26.000 They want to do their own thing.

00:21:27.000 I get it!

00:21:27.000 I was there!

00:21:29.000 But in reality, it's a dead end long term.

00:21:33.000 So your presentations are probably then most helpful to someone that has an open heart to the gospel.

00:21:39.000 Is that fair to say?

00:21:40.000 Yeah, but I've had many people—in fact, I just had a guy at our event the other night.

00:21:44.000 At our event the other night in Tucson, a guy came up to me.

00:21:48.000 After, and he said, I want to apologize to you.

00:21:50.000 I said, why?

00:21:51.000 He said, you were at the University of Kentucky eight years ago, and after the event, I asked you a number of questions during the event, and after the event you invited me to dinner.

00:22:01.000 So I don't remember this, but I took this guy to dinner, and he said that helped soften my heart to the point that I'm now a Christian.

00:22:09.000 Wow.

00:22:10.000 Good for you, Frank.

00:22:12.000 And you don't even remember it.

00:22:13.000 No, I don't.

00:22:14.000 I don't remember it.

00:22:15.000 That is such a good example that memory is not connected, because that's an argument that the left will use with abortion. 0.89

00:22:22.000 So you don't have the ability to form memories, you should be able to slaughter a child.

00:22:25.000 And it's just, I mean, if your whole memory got wiped out, that doesn't...

00:22:29.000 Null or void your moral contribution.

00:22:32.000 No, no, not at all.

00:22:33.000 But there's a lot of things I've done that I don't remember either that were evil, and that's why I need a savior.

00:22:39.000 No, that's right.

00:22:40.000 And that's where it all needs to point back to, is that we're broken by nature, but colleges, institutionally, they'll play into the depravity.

00:22:50.000 Of course.

00:22:51.000 They have an intellectual department, philosophical department, designed and configured towards that.

00:22:55.000 Oh, absolutely.

00:22:56.000 Yeah, they are there to actually put forth a moral position, even though they don't have a moral standard, an objective moral standard.

00:23:05.000 They're trying to say things like, if you're against a young person transitioning, you're immoral, Charlie.

00:23:11.000 If you're against a young person getting an abortion, you're immoral, Charlie.

00:23:15.000 If you're someone that supports, say, Donald Trump for president, because you think this nation should have borders, for example, you're immoral, Charlie.

00:23:25.000 Where are they getting this moral standard from?

00:23:27.000 Where are they getting it from, Charlie?

00:23:29.000 Show me the lit.

00:23:31.000 We'll start with the Ten Commandments.

00:23:32.000 That's what you and I live off of, right?

00:23:33.000 What is their Ten Commandments?

00:23:35.000 They don't have one.

00:23:36.000 Well, they steal from R. I wrote a book a number of years ago called Stealing from God, Why Atheists Need God to Make Their Case. 0.98

00:23:44.000 They have to steal a moral standard from God while claiming he doesn't exist. 0.86

00:23:48.000 In effect, they have to sit in God's lap to slap his face, right? 0.90

00:23:51.000 Because they have all these moral rights! 0.69

00:23:53.000 Abortion, trans, you know, You ought not colonialize people, whatever their standard is, right? 1.00

00:24:02.000 And they don't have a standard in their worldview.

00:24:05.000 They have all these moral precepts, but no way to justify them.

00:24:07.000 Yes.

00:24:08.000 So, Frank, then, the work you're doing on campus is generating a lot of fruit.

00:24:14.000 I'm sure politics comes up every so often.

00:24:17.000 And you were so eloquent and so good.

00:24:20.000 I was telling Mikey and Pastor Furrow in Tucson—I don't need to speak, Frank is just doing amazing—which is, how should Christians think about this election?

00:24:29.000 I think, like every election, Christians ought to vote biblically. 1.00

00:24:34.000 And you say, well, Jesus wasn't involved in politics.

00:24:38.000 And I say, au contraire.

00:24:40.000 Who did Jesus go after the most?

00:24:42.000 He went after the Pharisees.

00:24:43.000 And who were the Pharisees?

00:24:45.000 Some of them were on the Sanhedrin, the Jewish ruling council to whom Rome delegated day-to-day lawmaking authority.

00:24:52.000 In other words, Charlie, they were the politicians.

00:24:56.000 And Jesus went after these people.

00:24:58.000 In fact, in Matthew 23-23, this is easy to remember, Matthew 23-23, Jesus said this.

00:25:02.000 It's also Michael Jordan's number.

00:25:04.000 It is, yeah, there you go, guy from Chicago.

00:25:06.000 I'll never forget this.

00:25:07.000 And the Bears won yesterday, by the way.

00:25:09.000 Miracles do happen.

00:25:09.000 That miracles do happen, you're right.

00:25:12.000 Anyway, in Matthew 23-23, Jesus says to these politicians, he says, you've tithed your spices, mint, dill, and cumin, but you've neglected the more important matters of the law.

00:25:23.000 Justice, mercy, and faithfulness.

00:25:25.000 You should have practiced the former without neglecting the latter.

00:25:28.000 You blind guides, you strain out a gnat and swallow a camel. 0.99

00:25:31.000 What's he saying?

00:25:32.000 He's saying that you have done the minor things, tithed your spices, but you're neglecting justice, the bigger issues.

00:25:42.000 And we're doing the same thing in our country.

00:25:46.000 Charlie we're telling people what light bulbs they can and can't use but we won't say don't murder your children Kamala Harris wants to ban plastic straws, but she doesn't want to ban child mutilation She's neglecting the more important matters of the law Jesus was was scolding these politicians for doing that. 1.00

00:26:05.000 So when you go to vote, I think what you ought to do is vote on the more important matters of the law.

00:26:10.000 And look, I get it.

00:26:11.000 You might not like either candidate.

00:26:13.000 I get it.

00:26:14.000 OK, what you also need to remember is you're not voting for one person when you're voting for president.

00:26:20.000 You're voting for 5000 people to go to Washington and implement a platform.

00:26:23.000 That's right.

00:26:24.000 And which platform is going to be implemented?

00:26:26.000 I don't know.

00:26:26.000 Do we even have a Kamala Harris platform yet?

00:26:28.000 It finally is out.

00:26:29.000 It came out just yesterday, I heard.

00:26:31.000 It's full of abstractions.

00:26:33.000 There's no specifics.

00:26:34.000 There's no specifics.

00:26:35.000 We want people to be happier.

00:26:37.000 I'm half kidding, right? 0.97

00:26:39.000 But it's ridiculous. 0.56

00:26:40.000 There's nothing there. 0.82

00:26:41.000 Okay, so there's nothing there.

00:26:42.000 I remember in her Dana Bash interview, she was asked, what are you going to do on day one?

00:26:46.000 She said, help the middle class, and there was no specifics.

00:26:48.000 No, that's basically what her website is.

00:26:50.000 Okay, so you need to vote on policy, ladies and gentlemen.

00:26:52.000 What's the most important policies?

00:26:55.000 And in my view, the right to life is the right to all other rights.

00:26:58.000 If you don't have life, you don't have anything.

00:27:00.000 Now, Charlie, you and I have spoken, and I know you have reached out to people within the Republican Party.

00:27:07.000 We're not happy that the Republican Party has softened its view on the abortion issue.

00:27:13.000 and that's going to be something we're going to have to deal with moving forward.

00:27:16.000 However, and actually President Trump said in the first debate with Biden,

00:27:20.000 you know, you got to get elected. He's just like speaking off the top of his head.

00:27:24.000 Sounds like Trump.

00:27:25.000 Right. But you got to get elected. And he's right.

00:27:27.000 If a candidate were to say that I know that an unborn child is a human being and I am not for

00:27:34.000 any exceptions to abortion, even though that's the right moral position.

00:27:40.000 And we must be unwavering in saying that.

00:27:41.000 Yes, it is the right moral position.

00:27:43.000 And that's where your high role is.

00:27:44.000 Totally.

00:27:44.000 We're together on it, except of course for life of the mother, but life of the mother, the intent is not to kill the child, the intent is to save the mother.

00:27:51.000 And cesarean section should be given as the Yeah, exactly. 0.62

00:27:54.000 Which almost never is.

00:27:55.000 Yeah, you said that.

00:27:56.000 There's one exception where that won't work, and that's in a topic pregnancy.

00:27:59.000 Correct, that's right.

00:28:00.000 However, most of the time, cesarean can be tried.

00:28:03.000 That's right, that's right.

00:28:04.000 Anyway, but we don't want to get too deep.

00:28:05.000 Yeah, in any event, if a Christian votes for the Democrat, platform, what you're getting is abortion up to the moment of birth, and your tax dollars are paying for it. 0.71

00:28:20.000 And overturning the 14 states that have gotten rid of abortion.

00:28:23.000 Yes.

00:28:23.000 That's the critical part.

00:28:24.000 That is.

00:28:25.000 Trump will allow states to stay pro-life.

00:28:27.000 Kamala Harris will not.

00:28:28.000 That is correct.

00:28:30.000 Also, on the religious freedom issue.

00:28:33.000 Oh, it's not even close.

00:28:35.000 Go ahead, unpack that, Charlie.

00:28:35.000 No, no, no, no, this is—yeah, but I mean, from judges, from mandatory lockdowns, to

00:28:40.000 religious liberty, to religious consciousness.

00:28:43.000 For example, Kamala Harris's regime would force Christian schools to have boys in women's 0.96

00:28:48.000 locker rooms.

00:28:49.000 Not only that, when it comes to religious freedom, if they pass the Equality Act, which

00:28:54.000 is not equality at all, religious rights would take—would be subservient, would be overpowered 0.99

00:29:01.000 by any LGBTQ rights, which means women's— ...in sports.

00:29:06.000 Pastors and priests would have to do homosexual marriages. 0.58

00:29:09.000 And so Trump is against all of that. 0.61

00:29:11.000 Yes.

00:29:11.000 Let's just be clear.

00:29:12.000 Right.

00:29:12.000 And he's against men in women's sports.

00:29:14.000 That's what I should have said a minute ago.

00:29:15.000 No, no.

00:29:15.000 And it's in his platform.

00:29:17.000 And President Trump has also put great judges.

00:29:19.000 And let's not forget, he did give us the reversal of Roe versus Wade.

00:29:22.000 He did, yes.

00:29:23.000 That is worthy of our gratitude.

00:29:25.000 You know, Charlie, another thing that has come up with regard to this on the abortion issue.

00:29:30.000 If I were asked, if I was the candidate, and I was asked, would you sign a pro-life bill if it came across your desk?

00:29:36.000 I would say this.

00:29:38.000 I would say, if a pro-life bill came across my desk, that would mean the people wanted it.

00:29:43.000 And therefore, we had moved the country in the right direction.

00:29:48.000 But you and I both know that's not coming across my desk.

00:29:51.000 That's a great answer.

00:29:52.000 The better question would be for my opponent Kamala Harris, are you going to sign a ban 1.00

00:29:57.000 against abortions in the third trimester?

00:30:00.000 Which the American people do want.

00:30:01.000 Yeah, they do want a ban on that.

00:30:03.000 And she's going to say no, in fact I want the government to pay for those.

00:30:09.000 And by the way, everyone knows we're not going to get a constitutional amendment right now on the life issue.

00:30:14.000 You need two-thirds of the Congress and 37 states, Charlie.

00:30:18.000 We are not there, Frank.

00:30:19.000 No.

00:30:19.000 But we need to keep fighting.

00:30:20.000 We need to keep fighting.

00:30:21.000 And pastors and Christians need to fight. 0.99

00:30:23.000 It's our issue, not the Republican Party's issue.

00:30:26.000 It's our issue that we haven't been persuasive enough, we haven't talked about it enough, we haven't showed them what's going on in an abortion.

00:30:33.000 In fact, I challenge anybody who's pro-abortion out there, or pro-choice right now, I want you to go to caseforlife.com, caseforlife.com, and watch the one-minute video.

00:30:42.000 Scroll down, you'll see it.

00:30:43.000 It's a Vimeo video.

00:30:44.000 Can I interject?

00:30:45.000 Yeah.

00:30:45.000 I think you have a moral obligation to watch it.

00:30:47.000 You're right.

00:30:47.000 If you're pro-abortion.

00:30:49.000 Absolutely.

00:30:49.000 Just as if you were pro-slavery, you should have to watch the horror associated with your view.

00:30:53.000 Yes.

00:30:54.000 If you are pro-abortion, if you can stomach that one-minute video, then you can hold on to those views. 0.60

00:30:59.000 That's right.

00:31:00.000 If you can't, if you can't stomach that one-minute video, then there's something, I don't wanna say hypocritical, but that's probably the best word for it.

00:31:07.000 Yes, and I showed that video the other night at Calvary Chapel, Tucson.

00:31:10.000 And people were crying.

00:31:11.000 Yes, I warned them, you're gonna see an abortion in every trimester. 1.00

00:31:14.000 You did it in a very classy way.

00:31:19.000 Hey everybody, Charlie Kirk here.

00:31:20.000 What an unbelievable start to 2024.

00:31:22.000 We had last month saving babies with preborn by providing ultrasounds.

00:31:26.000 And we're doing again this year what we did last year.

00:31:28.000 We're going to stand for life because remaining silent in the face of the most radically pro-death administration is not an option.

00:31:33.000 As Sir Edmund Burke said, the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing, and we're not going to do nothing.

00:31:39.000 Your gift to preborn will give a girl the truth about what's happening in her body so that she can make the right choice.

00:31:46.000 $280 can save 10 babies.

00:31:48.000 $28 a month can save a baby a month all year long.

00:31:51.000 And a $15,000 gift will provide a complete ultrasound machine that will save thousands of babies for years and years to come.

00:31:57.000 And we'll also save moms from a lifetime of pain and regret.

00:32:00.000 Call 833-850-2229.

00:32:03.000 That's 833-850-2229.

00:32:05.000 Or click on the pre-born banner at charliekirk.com.

00:32:09.000 That is charliekirk.com and click on the pre-born banner.

00:32:12.000 Also save moms from a lifetime of pain and regret.

00:32:14.000 I'm a donor of this organization.

00:32:15.000 They're terrific.

00:32:16.000 Go to charliekirk.com, click on the pre-born banner.

00:32:21.000 Frank, I want to close with the most important topic, which is, so we have does truth exist, miracles exist, does God exist, can we trust the New Testament, and you've trained me on this, that it's easy to get caught up on Joan on the Whale, you know, parting the Red Sea, all of that stuff is important, but none of it really matters unless you can the resurrection, correct?

00:32:42.000 Yeah, and the greatest miracle in the Bible is not the resurrection.

00:32:45.000 The greatest miracle in the Bible is the first verse.

00:32:47.000 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

00:32:49.000 That's right.

00:32:50.000 In Hebrew.

00:32:50.000 If that verse is true, ladies and gentlemen, every other verse is at least possible, and even atheists are admitting the data for it.

00:32:56.000 In fact, Stephen Hawking, who was the top physicist in the world, at least the most popular, until he died about six years ago, said, almost everyone now believes that the universe and time itself had a beginning at the Big Bang.

00:33:06.000 Now, he didn't have an explanation for this that was plausible, but if space-time and matter had a beginning, then whatever created space-time and matter must transcend space-time and matter, must be spaceless, timeless, immaterial, powerful, personal, and intelligent, which I cover in the I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist presentation on our YouTube channel, so go see that.

00:33:25.000 YouTube is cross-examined.

00:33:28.000 If Genesis 1-1 is true, a resurrection is at least possible, Charlie.

00:33:32.000 So is Jonah, so is Noah, so is Paul.

00:33:33.000 All that is secondary.

00:33:34.000 Yes.

00:33:35.000 Meaning Jonah could be... I said this and someone got upset.

00:33:38.000 If Jonah is allegorical, that doesn't mean the resurrection is not true.

00:33:42.000 Of course!

00:33:42.000 And I don't believe Jonah is allegorical.

00:33:43.000 No, no, I think it's literal.

00:33:44.000 Yes.

00:33:44.000 Because Jesus said it was.

00:33:45.000 Of course.

00:33:46.000 Yeah.

00:33:46.000 I'm just saying, though, that let's get back to the resurrection.

00:33:49.000 That's right.

00:33:49.000 That is the core.

00:33:50.000 The resurrection is true because—look, who wrote this down, Charlie?

00:33:55.000 These were Jews who thought they were God's chosen people.

00:33:58.000 They had every motive to say the resurrection wasn't true.

00:34:02.000 Not every motive to say it was, and they went to their deaths not for just a claim, they went to their deaths for something they said they saw, the risen Jesus.

00:34:16.000 Which would get them killed, and did.

00:34:18.000 They had no motive to make up a new religion, because by saying Jesus had resurrected from the dead and saying he was God, first of all it's blasphemy to say you were God in that culture, And they didn't think one guy would rise from the dead in the middle of time.

00:34:31.000 They knew we'd all rise at the end.

00:34:33.000 But this was not on their radar, Charlie.

00:34:36.000 They did not think a guy could claim to be God and rise from the dead.

00:34:38.000 And yet here they are, claiming that. 0.95

00:34:41.000 It gets them beaten, tortured, and killed. 0.62

00:34:43.000 This is not a list of perks. 0.99

00:34:45.000 They're not going to make this up.

00:34:47.000 And then they go and die for it and spread it around the world.

00:34:51.000 Now, why would they do this if they're making it up?

00:34:53.000 Now, I like to say this, just to kind of wake people up.

00:34:57.000 I say to them, Christianity is not true, Charlie, because a series of documents that we put under one binding we call the Bible says it's true. 1.00

00:35:05.000 In fact, Christianity would be true if the Bible never existed. 0.98

00:35:10.000 And people go, well, how can that be?

00:35:12.000 Because, do you realize there were thousands of Christians before a line of the New Testament was ever written?

00:35:19.000 Yeah, why?

00:35:20.000 Because they didn't read about it in a book.

00:35:22.000 They saw the risen Jesus themselves.

00:35:25.000 In other words, Christianity did not begin with a book.

00:35:28.000 Christianity began with an event, the resurrection.

00:35:32.000 There would be no series of books we put under one binding we call the New Testament.

00:35:37.000 Unless Jesus rose from the dead, because Jews would never invent this. 1.00

00:35:41.000 This is not an invented story.

00:35:43.000 In fact, I like to say it this way.

00:35:45.000 The New Testament writers did not create the resurrection.

00:35:49.000 The resurrection created the New Testament writers, right?

00:35:52.000 You wouldn't have these documents written by Jews in the first century, who then would go die for it. 1.00

00:35:57.000 And by the way, it's not like Muslims who die for their faith now.

00:36:00.000 Muslims who die for their faith now haven't witnessed anything.

00:36:03.000 They just think it's true.

00:36:04.000 The New Testament writers were in a position to know whether it was true.

00:36:08.000 You see, many people will die for a lie they think is the truth.

00:36:11.000 Nobody will die for a lie they know is a lie.

00:36:13.000 And the New Testament writers were in a position to know whether it was a lie or not, and they went to their deaths anyway.

00:36:17.000 And then also, the story of Paul is perplexing.

00:36:19.000 Without the resurrection, there is no explanation for Paul.

00:36:23.000 And James, the half-brother of Jesus, He didn't think his own brother was God.

00:36:27.000 Thirty years later, he's dying as a martyr, as Josephus, the Jewish historian, tells us.

00:36:31.000 In India or something.

00:36:32.000 No, he's dying in Jerusalem.

00:36:33.000 Oh, is that right?

00:36:34.000 Yeah, yeah, Josephus tells us.

00:36:35.000 Thomas was in India.

00:36:36.000 Yeah, Thomas was India.

00:36:38.000 James, why is James dying for his brother's claim that he was God if he hadn't witnessed the resurrected Jesus?

00:36:43.000 He did witness the resurrected Jesus.

00:36:47.000 So we cover all this, and I don't have enough faith to be an atheist, and at the end of the day, we ask people, hey, this is true. 0.98

00:36:54.000 Why don't you believe it?

00:36:56.000 You don't want to believe it?

00:36:57.000 It's free!

00:36:58.000 Look, you're only going to get one of two things in the afterlife.

00:37:01.000 You're either going to get justice, or you're going to get grace.

00:37:05.000 I don't want justice, Charlie.

00:37:07.000 No.

00:37:07.000 You don't want justice.

00:37:08.000 Everybody out there listening shouldn't want justice.

00:37:11.000 We should want grace, that Jesus took our punishment on himself, and by trusting in him, you're not only forgiven, you're given his righteousness.

00:37:20.000 Frank, God bless you, man.

00:37:21.000 It's crossexamine.org, and how many campus stops do you have?

00:37:25.000 We have about nine this semester.

00:37:26.000 Good for you.

00:37:27.000 That's great.

00:37:27.000 And they go viral.

00:37:28.000 They do very well.

00:37:29.000 We hope so.

00:37:29.000 Yeah.

00:37:30.000 We'll be at Western Carolina University next week.

00:37:32.000 Check us out.

00:37:32.000 That's Monday the 18th.

00:37:34.000 And then a bunch in Louisiana the following week.

00:37:36.000 So go to crossexamine.org.

00:37:38.000 You'll see it there.

00:37:38.000 Frank Turek.

00:37:39.000 God bless you, man.

00:37:40.000 Thanks so much.

00:37:40.000 Thank you, the great Charlie Kirk.

00:37:41.000 Keep it up, brother.

00:37:42.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:37:43.000 Email us, as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:37:45.000 Thanks so much for listening, and God bless.

The Charlie Kirk Show - September 10, 2024

If There Is No God, There Are No Rights ft. Frank Turek

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript