The Charlie Kirk Show - If You Found Out God Was Real, Would You Change Your Behavior? ft. Barak Lurie

00:00:00.000 Hey, everybody.

00:00:00.000 Charlie Kirk here, live from the Bitcoin.com studio.

00:00:04.000 What are your thoughts about atheism?

00:00:06.000 A terrific conversation with Barack Lurie about the real-world implications of atheism in a way we've never talked about it before on this program.

00:00:13.000 I encourage you guys to listen to this and also check out Barack's book, Atheism Steals and Atheism Kills.

00:00:18.000 Get involved with Turning Point USA at tpusa.com.

00:00:21.000 That is tpusa.com.

00:00:23.000 Become a member today at members.charliekirk.com.

00:00:25.000 That is members.charliekirk.com.

00:00:28.000 And also check out the charliekirkstore.com.

00:00:31.000 That is charliekirkstore.com for all the merch that we wear on this program, charliekirkstore.com.

00:00:36.000 Buckle up, everybody.

00:00:37.000 Here we go.

00:00:38.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:40.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

00:00:42.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

00:00:45.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:00:49.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:00:50.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:00:51.000 His spirit, his love of this country.

00:00:53.000 He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.

00:00:59.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

00:01:08.000 That's why we are here.

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00:01:21.000 Learn how you can protect your wealth with Noble Gold Investments at noblegoldinvestments.com.

00:01:28.000 That is noblegoldinvestments.com.

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00:01:36.000 Okay, everybody.

00:01:37.000 Very special guest here today about a topic near and dear to my heart and to all of you about atheism.

00:01:44.000 Atheism, I think, is dying in the West.

00:01:45.000 We'll talk about that.

00:01:46.000 Joining us now is a friend of mine, Barack Lurie.

00:01:48.000 Barack, great to see you.

00:01:50.000 Thanks for having me.

00:01:51.000 Confused with Barack Obama.

00:01:52.000 I'm sure you get that a lot.

00:01:53.000 All the time.

00:01:54.000 And I do not like it.

00:01:55.000 I'm sure you don't.

00:01:56.000 No, you're much wiser, and you believe in God.

00:01:59.000 I do.

00:02:00.000 I don't know if Barack Obama does or not.

00:02:01.000 But okay, so you're the author of a very interesting and important series of books.

00:02:05.000 Tell us about it.

00:02:05.000 Yeah, it's called the Atheism Kills series.

00:02:08.000 There are three volumes.

00:02:09.000 The first one came out in 2017 called The Atheism Kills.

00:02:13.000 The next one was in 2019, 2020.

00:02:16.000 Atheism Destroys. 0.80

00:02:17.000 And the last one that is about to be wrapped up, Atheism Steals. 0.81

00:02:21.000 And what I do there is I try to show the dangers and the consequences of a world without God.

00:02:27.000 And it's not very pretty.

00:02:29.000 It's going to be a terrifying world if we were to actually adopt atheism as a governing structure.

00:02:35.000 And it's not hypothetical for me to say that.

00:02:37.000 We have ample examples of that, both in the world of fascism and in communism.

00:02:44.000 They were so overwhelming.

00:02:45.000 The evidence was so overwhelming that this is what happens when you operate a government.

00:02:51.000 Without God.

00:02:52.000 It's a little bit like that old egg commercial.

00:02:54.000 I don't know if you remember it, Charlie, but you put these eggs in a skillet, and this is your brain, this is your brain on drugs.

00:03:01.000 Well, this is your world on atheism.

00:03:04.000 It's not a pretty one.

00:03:06.000 I show in these books that atheism kills on an epic level, beyond belief.

00:03:14.000 Hundreds of millions of people have died in the 20th century and are continuing to do so.

00:03:20.000 That has been evidenced by Hitler's reign in fascism, generally speaking.

00:03:24.000 Hitler was not a Christian, by the way.

00:03:26.000 And I do want to dive into that later.

00:03:27.000 It's one that I get quite often.

00:03:30.000 Oh, it's an easy response.

00:03:33.000 Communism, of course, was by definition atheist.

00:03:36.000 You had to be an atheist in order to actually adopt communism. 0.90

00:03:40.000 It was the engine of communism.

00:03:43.000 Alexander Solzhenitsyn, the great Soviet dissident, said that...

00:03:47.000 Atheism was the central pivot of communism.

00:03:50.000 It could not exist without atheism.

00:03:54.000 Naturally, they wanted to get rid of religion altogether because religion was the ultimate threat to the government.

00:04:01.000 They wanted you to completely be subservient to the government systems, and therefore what you have to do is just abandon religion altogether.

00:04:09.000 And that's what they largely successfully did in the Soviet Union and to some extent in China.

00:04:15.000 But these are really horrific regimes.

00:04:17.000 And we need to understand that.

00:04:19.000 Aside from that, which is bad enough, it also destroys everything else that we value, things like truth and logic and science, the concept of family, the concept of relationships, the concept of free speech, for example.

00:04:32.000 All these things derive because of our belief in God and our values in that.

00:04:37.000 Even our sense of beauty, our sense of storytelling, of music and art.

00:04:41.000 None of these things would exist without God.

00:04:45.000 And one of the things that I always love to ask people to do is to simply ask this question.

00:04:53.000 Why are things the way they are?

00:04:56.000 Why do we love music?

00:04:58.000 And if I were to ask you, Charlie, what music you like, I'm going to get an answer.

00:05:01.000 Classical.

00:05:02.000 Yeah, you might like classical.

00:05:03.000 Somebody might like hip-hop.

00:05:04.000 Somebody might like rock and roll.

00:05:07.000 Likewise, if I were to turn to you and I said, you know, Charlie, I've got a great story for you.

00:05:12.000 You lean forward and you say, uh-huh.

00:05:14.000 You won't respond by saying, oh, thanks, Brock, but I'm not a story kind of guy, right?

00:05:19.000 But that only exists among humans.

00:05:22.000 We don't see that in animals whatsoever.

00:05:24.000 There is no music in the animal kingdom, no storytelling, no sense of the past or the future, no sense of ancestry or descendants, no sense of obligation.

00:05:35.000 And these are questions worth asking.

00:05:37.000 Why do we have them?

00:05:39.000 So I love all this, by the way.

00:05:40.000 As you know, this is partially my life's work, too, inspired by our mutual friend Dennis Prager, which is arguing for the necessity of God, not just the existence of God, which I want to build out.

00:05:49.000 But let's take a step back.

00:05:50.000 What about you?

00:05:51.000 What got you into this line of work?

00:05:53.000 And then I have a more technical question.

00:05:54.000 So who are you, and why are you interested in atheism and its consequences so much?

00:05:59.000 Well, in many ways, I'm fighting myself.

00:06:03.000 When I was much younger, I was an atheist.

00:06:05.000 I decided when I was 11 years old I was an atheist and I decided I must be brilliant because of that.

00:06:10.000 Because I figured it out and nobody else could.

00:06:13.000 Then I went to college and I went to Stanford and I decided to write my thesis on proving that religion has caused more wars and deaths and destruction than anything else. 0.72

00:06:24.000 And I set about to just go ahead numerically to prove my point.

00:06:29.000 But as I went about this, Charlie...

00:06:32.000 I discovered I was wrong, like dead wrong, and I was embarrassed.

00:06:37.000 And I decided that my thesis would be entirely the opposite, proving how indeed atheism was the center of all destruction and killing and mayhem.

00:06:47.000 What really changed your mind?

00:06:50.000 Reading The Brothers Karamazov by Dostoevsky.

00:06:53.000 What about that?

00:06:55.000 He showed me that I was shallow in my thinking.

00:06:58.000 As an atheist, that really there is no free will, there is no sense of consciousness without God.

00:07:06.000 And I believed in free will.

00:07:07.000 But I'm told nothing good ever comes out of Russia.

00:07:09.000 It's a terrible place.

00:07:10.000 I'm told that it's just a gas station with nuclear weapons.

00:07:13.000 Right, there you go.

00:07:13.000 I'm kidding, I'm giving a hard time.

00:07:15.000 Russian literature can be very dark, but very telling.

00:07:18.000 It's dark.

00:07:18.000 And I always say that Dostoevsky is fantastic because people think that he's very brooding and dark.

00:07:23.000 I haven't spent much time with him.

00:07:24.000 I know the concepts, obviously.

00:07:26.000 But it's very uplifting, these books.

00:07:29.000 Surprisingly so.

00:07:30.000 Crime and Punishment, fantastic book.

00:07:32.000 Very uplifting in the end.

00:07:33.000 Same with Karamazov.

00:07:35.000 But I read these books and I decided that I was really a believer.

00:07:42.000 But here was the problem.

00:07:44.000 In college, you end up kind of milling about with a lot of philosophical issues.

00:07:48.000 You meet some religious people.

00:07:50.000 I knew these four guys who were evangelical Christians, and we'd always banter about the existence of God.

00:07:59.000 And I said there was no God, and they said there was, and such.

00:08:02.000 But we were very respectful of each other.

00:08:03.000 I have to pat myself on the back about that.

00:08:05.000 And then when I discovered that there was a God, and I remember going, I decided that I was going to go tell them that I believed in God.

00:08:14.000 And as I did so, my legs felt very heavy.

00:08:19.000 I couldn't walk.

00:08:20.000 It was the weirdest thing.

00:08:22.000 I didn't know why this was happening to me, but I figured out the reason why.

00:08:27.000 I realized that things were about to change.

00:08:30.000 This is changing your belief to understand that there's a God, a creator, somebody who loves you, something that you are responsible for.

00:08:38.000 It changes your entire sense of obligation.

00:08:41.000 Everything changes about you.

00:08:43.000 And so this is not like, I decided I'm going to change my football loyalty to the Patriots versus the Steelers, right?

00:08:51.000 It's not like that.

00:08:52.000 This is a world change.

00:08:54.000 Everything had to change.

00:08:56.000 And that's why they felt so heavy.

00:08:58.000 But since then, like I said, I've been fighting myself.

00:09:02.000 These books that I write is more of a way to be able to convince myself.

00:09:08.000 I'm the best fighter for atheism, oddly enough.

00:09:11.000 I always say, I can out-atheist any atheist. 0.88

00:09:14.000 I've got all the arguments down.

00:09:16.000 I sometimes improve people's atheist arguments, and then I shoot it down.

00:09:20.000 You have to help me, yeah.

00:09:21.000 I encounter it all the time on campuses.

00:09:24.000 So I encourage people to really ask themselves why there is a God.

00:09:29.000 Seek out God.

00:09:30.000 It's wonderful to believe in God.

00:09:31.000 It really is.

00:09:32.000 But to find Him, that's another story.

00:09:35.000 Would you call yourself a Christian?

00:09:37.000 No, I'm Jewish.

00:09:39.000 Okay.

00:09:39.000 Yeah.

00:09:41.000 I deeply, deeply appreciate Christians and Christianity.

00:09:45.000 Likewise.

00:09:46.000 I wanted to...

00:09:47.000 Would you say that you came in contact with God or the idea of God or the concept?

00:09:53.000 Because coming into a relationship with God is usually Christian language.

00:09:57.000 That's why I...

00:09:57.000 Oh, I see.

00:09:58.000 No, in Judaism we have a relationship with God, absolutely.

00:10:02.000 Rabbis will often ask you, how is your relationship with God?

00:10:07.000 Tell me about that depth of the relationship.

00:10:11.000 And it's no different in Christianity. 0.72

00:10:13.000 Very solid.

00:10:14.000 So I came to that realization.

00:10:17.000 So I started off first, you know, understand that there must be a creator.

00:10:21.000 And I recommend this.

00:10:22.000 If you want to convince your non-believing friends, take it methodically. 0.80

00:10:28.000 Start off with, is there a creator?

00:10:30.000 Forget about the God of the Old Testament, God of the New Testament.

00:10:34.000 The Levitical laws.

00:10:35.000 Yeah, Levitical laws.

00:10:36.000 Forget about all that.

00:10:36.000 Leave it aside.

00:10:37.000 Is there a creator?

00:10:39.000 With a capital C. And you'll ultimately have to come to the conclusion that of course there is.

00:10:45.000 It's obvious.

00:10:46.000 The math demands it.

00:10:47.000 The probabilities demand it.

00:10:49.000 Frankly, it's silly not to believe that there's a creator.

00:10:52.000 Okay.

00:10:52.000 So there's three different things that I love to talk about.

00:10:57.000 The chances of the universe coming into fruition by itself, randomly that is.

00:11:04.000 And that is something on the order of one out of...

00:11:09.000 It's so obscene that I can't imagine the amount of zeros that are involved.

00:11:14.000 Likewise, then, that the Earth would be formed, that the universe would form in the way it has formed, meaning with the gaseous and solidifying of the planets and the orbits around them.

00:11:28.000 It doesn't have to be.

00:11:30.000 I mean, it could have been that this universe would be entirely gas and nothing more.

00:11:34.000 But instead, we have the laws of physics and the laws of chemistry and so on.

00:11:38.000 So these are things that, again, the probabilities of that would be absurd.

00:11:44.000 And now you have to multiply those two fractions in order to make it together.

00:11:49.000 So the chances of the universe beginning in the first place and creating the universe as it did.

00:11:55.000 Then you have to go, there are many other steps in between, but the next one I'd like to talk about is the chances of life forming by itself, randomly.

00:12:03.000 And that indeed also is 1 out of 10 to the 125th, I think it was, some obscene number.

00:12:11.000 And again, you have to multiply that new fraction to the previous fractions.

00:12:15.000 Yeah, the probability would be if you stacked...

00:12:18.000 Nickels all across the United States from here to the moon times a thousand and one of them was a red cent and you were blindfolded. 0.50

00:12:25.000 Could you find that one red cent?

00:12:26.000 That's the likelihood of just life.

00:12:28.000 Not the fine-tuning of the universe itself.

00:12:31.000 So you say fine-tuning of universe, fine-tuning of earth, fine-tuning of life.

00:12:35.000 So there's three gradations of improbability.

00:12:37.000 Am I articulating that?

00:12:39.000 And then you get to a place where...

00:12:41.000 You need a quantum computer for the number.

00:12:43.000 Right, exactly right.

00:12:44.000 It is a big, big number.

00:12:45.000 And not only that, but you have to then go into the question of evolution, right?

00:12:50.000 That somehow we could explain the intelligence in life and the kind of intelligent life we have today that it evolved to this point.

00:13:01.000 That's another absurd fraction.

00:13:03.000 So at some point you have to say, this is silly.

00:13:08.000 We're honored to be partnering with the Alan Jackson Ministries, and today I want to point you to their podcast.

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00:13:59.000 You can find out more about Pastor Alan and the ministry at alanjackson.com.

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00:14:05.000 Again, that is alanjackson.com.

00:14:09.000 You know, the old watch on the beach analogy, which is a very apt analogy. 0.98

00:14:13.000 It's very fair.

00:14:13.000 You have to assume that there's a creator, somebody who left that watch on the beach, somebody who created that watch, and so on.

00:14:19.000 And you're not just seeing something that was...

00:14:22.000 Created there by the waves and the sand.

00:14:24.000 This is not worth our time to do more than 20 seconds.

00:14:28.000 Do you believe in evolution or do you believe in creation of man?

00:14:32.000 I believe in creation of man.

00:14:33.000 I do too.

00:14:35.000 We'll have you on for a different time because I think that...

00:14:38.000 Look, I'm not even saying if you believe in evolution, you're necessarily a bad person.

00:14:43.000 I just personally have the belief of creation.

00:14:45.000 Yeah, people try to shoehorn evolution in many ways.

00:14:48.000 They want to have it both ways.

00:14:49.000 They want to say, well, I believe in evolution, but it's directed by God.

00:14:53.000 I have a tough time with that.

00:14:55.000 And that could be right.

00:14:56.000 Again, I don't...

00:14:57.000 Anyway, I'm just curious kind of where you're coming from.

00:15:01.000 And so the math is insurmountable and improbable.

00:15:04.000 Right.

00:15:04.000 What would you have to say then?

00:15:06.000 When a non-believer, and I'm going to put a pin in that word atheist, because I want to get back to that in a second, says that there's multiverses.

00:15:15.000 Okay, well, the multiverse argument is a manufactured argument designed only because they understand the fine-tuning difficulties.

00:15:25.000 True atheists know that is the hardest argument.

00:15:27.000 That is the hardest argument.

00:15:28.000 And so here they say, well, there are a bunch of other universes.

00:15:31.000 Correct, which is a...

00:15:32.000 Profession of faith.

00:15:33.000 There is no evidence of science, right?

00:15:35.000 There's zero evidence.

00:15:35.000 And there might be an infinity number of universes, don't you know, Charlie?

00:15:39.000 So, therefore, there is a greater chance, therefore, that intelligent life and the way the universe was formed in our universe, that would happen in this universe.

00:15:50.000 But that is sidestepping the issue.

00:15:51.000 That is a false argument.

00:15:54.000 It's a cowardly argument.

00:15:56.000 It does not reason whatsoever using reason itself.

00:16:01.000 Which is interesting because one of the things that you learn from, I think you mentioned Frank Turek before.

00:16:07.000 Yeah, he's terrific.

00:16:08.000 A great argument.

00:16:10.000 And he makes the argument, the classical argument, that there's a difference between materialism and immaterialism.

00:16:17.000 Materialism is what I used to believe in as an atheist, and most atheists have to believe this, that there's only what we know by seeing, touching, hearing, feeling, tasting, and so on.

00:16:29.000 That is it.

00:16:30.000 And if you can't do that, well, then it doesn't exist.

00:16:33.000 But they themselves live in a world where they deal with the immaterial all the time.

00:16:39.000 Like, how do you smell logic?

00:16:42.000 How do you taste science?

00:16:44.000 So true, right?

00:16:45.000 How do you feel music?

00:16:47.000 There's a whole bunch of different...

00:16:48.000 You can only feel its effects.

00:16:50.000 Right, its effects.

00:16:51.000 We know it's there, and yet they accept it in themselves.

00:16:55.000 Philosophy, right?

00:16:56.000 I mean, how do you eat that?

00:17:00.000 And even the concept, many atheists will say there's no free will.

00:17:04.000 In fact, they have to say, if they're an intelligent atheist, like you mentioned, an intelligent and honest atheist has to say that there is no free will.

00:17:13.000 Why?

00:17:14.000 Because free will can only be given to you by a creator.

00:17:17.000 It cannot evolve by itself.

00:17:20.000 It's free-forming.

00:17:21.000 It's also like anything else.

00:17:23.000 If you don't believe in the idea of evolution coming by itself, you can't have free will either.

00:17:28.000 So agency cannot happen because it would just be nothing more than a bunch of cause and effects.

00:17:33.000 That's right.

00:17:34.000 It's tough enough for an atheist to explain how life was triggered by itself, but then to also say that there's free will in that process through evolution or otherwise, it's impossible.

00:17:45.000 Would you agree free will is fundamental to Judaism?

00:17:47.000 Yes.

00:17:48.000 Yes.

00:17:49.000 I agree.

00:17:49.000 I think that's right.

00:17:51.000 And I would say Christianity as well.

00:17:52.000 And I know Christians that don't believe in free will, but that's not the base of this. 0.97

00:17:57.000 Yeah, I don't understand that.

00:17:57.000 If there's no free will, then I always say, if somebody's going to argue that with me, well, if I punch you in the face right now, are you going to get upset?

00:18:05.000 And they'll say, of course I am.

00:18:07.000 Well, why would you?

00:18:08.000 I couldn't help myself.

00:18:10.000 So we inherently recognize free will.

00:18:12.000 And that was the thing that opened the door to God for me in the first place.

00:18:16.000 Once I realized that there was such a thing as free will, I knew that I was— How did you come to that conclusion?

00:18:22.000 I sensed it.

00:18:23.000 I know that I free will.

00:18:25.000 Was it a faith claim?

00:18:26.000 Because some people say free will is a faith, meaning you can't prove it, but you must believe you have it.

00:18:32.000 I think that's fair to say.

00:18:33.000 I don't think—I think that not only do I my own agent, but I'm also accountable for my actions.

00:18:42.000 If you don't believe in free will, then you don't believe you have agency, and therefore, that you don't have accountability for your actions.

00:18:50.000 And that's what's so tempting, Charlie, about atheism, is that that's its major gift to the atheist, is that you don't have to be accountable.

00:18:59.000 Right?

00:19:00.000 It's an addiction.

00:19:01.000 I say non-accountability is the greatest addiction that there is.

00:19:04.000 All other addictions flow from that.

00:19:06.000 So the temptation to simply dismiss Anything.

00:19:13.000 Any responsibility.

00:19:14.000 So if you are an atheist, then I always ask, why don't you just sex it up, booze it up, gamble as much as you want, lie and cheat and steal? 1.00

00:19:25.000 Yeah.

00:19:26.000 Well, those who do are, generally speaking, atheists, is what I found.

00:19:30.000 I've done a lot of research on this because I'm really fascinated by it.

00:19:34.000 And a lot of these are correlations, but the correlations are very strong.

00:19:38.000 The chances of you being an atheist, if you are somebody who routinely commits adultery, routinely steals, routinely cheats on a test, you are very highly likely to be an atheist. 0.88

00:19:54.000 If you are a serial murderer, if you engage in mass killings, if you are a member of the drug cartels, the sex cartels, or the mafia, you are certainly an atheist. 0.63

00:20:03.000 You do not have God in your life.

00:20:06.000 You may not call yourself an atheist, but you definitely don't have it.

00:20:08.000 They might even use Christian symbolism.

00:20:10.000 Well, like in The Godfather, for example, which is one of my favorite movies.

00:20:15.000 I mentioned it last evening.

00:20:16.000 It's beautiful.

00:20:17.000 It's a beautiful movie.

00:20:18.000 It's a fantastic story, but it does a little bit of a disservice to Christianity.

00:20:22.000 Almost intentionally, though.

00:20:23.000 Yeah, I think you're right.

00:20:25.000 Do you differentiate between agnostic, atheist, and secularism?

00:20:31.000 Are those three things all synonyms in your view?

00:20:33.000 The agnostic...

00:20:35.000 I do differentiate.

00:20:36.000 There's the atheist who says that there is no God.

00:20:40.000 Declarative.

00:20:40.000 Do you notice they're not saying that as much anymore?

00:20:42.000 Yeah, you brought that up the other day, and I'm fascinated about that.

00:20:46.000 I want to...

00:20:46.000 I have two examples.

00:20:47.000 Yeah, please.

00:20:48.000 Bill Maher on his show said, no, no, we just don't know.

00:20:51.000 And I said, what about agnosticism?

00:20:53.000 He says, no, it doesn't exist.

00:20:54.000 We're all just one and the same.

00:20:55.000 Atheism means you don't know.

00:20:56.000 And then Brett Weinstein on Tucker Carlson's podcast said, we just don't know the answer to a lot of these things, which is...

00:21:04.000 It's so amazing to me because when I grew up, Hitchens and Sam Harris and Dawkins was always like, no, we know we don't.

00:21:11.000 We know there is none.

00:21:12.000 Do you think I'm just overly noticing language, diction choice here, or is there something else going on here?

00:21:19.000 Look, if Bill Maher and Weinstein are saying that...

00:21:21.000 Those are only two data points, though.

00:21:23.000 But if they are emblematic of many others...

00:21:25.000 And they are near the top echelon of non-God thinking, godless thinking.

00:21:31.000 Look, it's always a catch-me-if-you-can sort of approach an atheistic ideology.

00:21:36.000 They always say that, well, on the one hand, I don't know about whether or not there's a God.

00:21:44.000 On the other hand, there is some possibility of this one way or the other, but you can't really pin them down.

00:21:50.000 They're like pinning jello to the wall in terms of their positions.

00:21:54.000 For example, when they start talking about most wars are caused by religion, Then you confront them with the fact that 93% of wars in recorded history have all been non-religious.

00:22:07.000 Is that right?

00:22:07.000 Yeah, that's right.

00:22:08.000 And about half of the religious ones were Muslim-based.

00:22:11.000 We're going to put that in our campus tour.

00:22:12.000 So I have a binder of stuff in my campus tour of stuff I hear a lot, but I could just reference to shut these kids up.

00:22:18.000 So you're going to send me the citation for that?

00:22:20.000 Absolutely.

00:22:21.000 It's in the Encyclopedia of Wars.

00:22:24.000 Wow.

00:22:25.000 So it's a very straightforward...

00:22:26.000 Please send that to me.

00:22:27.000 So please continue.

00:22:28.000 So they go all over the place.

00:22:30.000 You never quite know where the atheist is landing, but they want it always, in every way. 0.90

00:22:34.000 They want to say that they believe in morality, for example.

00:22:37.000 And then you ask them, what is morality?

00:22:39.000 Why does that matter to you?

00:22:40.000 There is no morality in atheism.

00:22:43.000 There's no accountability in atheism.

00:22:44.000 But they want to insist that there is morality.

00:22:48.000 When I was an atheist, Charlie, again, I was an honest atheist.

00:22:50.000 I did not believe morality.

00:22:52.000 I thought...

00:22:53.000 Look, whatever you can get away with, so much better for you.

00:22:56.000 I will play by the rules because I don't want to go to jail.

00:23:01.000 And that's about it.

00:23:02.000 And murdering somebody is no more significant than stealing some gum from a 7-Eleven store.

00:23:10.000 And that was terrifying to me when I realized that.

00:23:15.000 It was liberating when I discovered that God does expect us to have morality.

00:23:20.000 And he watches everything you do.

00:23:21.000 Everything.

00:23:22.000 And the atheist knows it too.

00:23:24.000 That's the problem I have with the atheist.

00:23:27.000 He knows all these things.

00:23:29.000 He lives, he tries to live or claims to live in a moral world where he doesn't want to cheat, lie, steal, and so on.

00:23:35.000 Doesn't want to commit adultery on his wife.

00:23:37.000 But at the same time, his worldview allows him to do all those things without consequence.

00:23:45.000 They will say, so the...

00:23:46.000 More articulate evolutionary biologists like Weinstein, who I actually think—he actually is more respectful towards this topic than most.

00:23:52.000 I have to give him a lot of credit.

00:23:54.000 He had a good conversation with Tucker.

00:23:55.000 He would say, we derive our morality based on if everybody else did it, would it be beneficial to the group?

00:24:03.000 Right.

00:24:04.000 So, for example, if everyone committed adultery, it would be bad for the tribe.

00:24:07.000 If everyone killed, it would be bad for the tribe.

00:24:09.000 If everyone stole, it would be bad for the tribe.

00:24:11.000 And out of that, we get a belief in the golden rule.

00:24:14.000 How would you— Yeah, I get this a lot.

00:24:17.000 Yeah, sure.

00:24:18.000 Which is, it's bad for you, right?

00:24:20.000 It's evolutionarily bad.

00:24:22.000 Right, yeah.

00:24:22.000 It's necessarily important to be able to enjoy festivals and music and such, because that's evolution.

00:24:30.000 It's also good that we don't kill each other.

00:24:32.000 I call this the great Mexican standoff argument, where I don't kill you because I don't want you to kill me. 0.89

00:24:38.000 I don't steal from you because I don't want people to steal from me.

00:24:42.000 It's a cute argument.

00:24:44.000 But it doesn't understand, it doesn't have a basis of morality.

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00:25:39.000 So I want you to think right now.

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00:25:56.000 If morality is relative, then if I decide something is good for me, then I will do something awful to you and still feel good about it.

00:26:06.000 I'll give you an example, and I say this in my book, Atheism Kills. 0.92

00:26:09.000 Where if I'm up for promotion, a job, and let's say I'm an older guy, I'm 45 years old, and there's this young guy who's 28 years old, and he's up for promotion, and so am I. But I've got four kids, and I've got a gambling debt, and I've got to get this job.

00:26:26.000 If I don't get this job, I'm out in the streets.

00:26:30.000 What's the big deal if I just put some porn on his computer at work?

00:26:36.000 Right?

00:26:37.000 It's not criminal per se, but I need that job.

00:26:42.000 And he doesn't.

00:26:44.000 I've got to take care of my family.

00:26:45.000 That's logical.

00:26:46.000 Everything I said was logical.

00:26:48.000 And he, we'll call him Bobby, Mr. 28-year-old, well, he'll get another job one day.

00:26:54.000 No big deal.

00:26:55.000 He's got plenty of opportunity.

00:26:57.000 That's logic.

00:26:59.000 And that is the mindset of Raskolnikov, for example, in Crime and Punishment, where he decides to kill...

00:27:06.000 His landlady, because he decides that she's a burden to society. 0.98

00:27:10.000 He'll be doing the society a favor.

00:27:13.000 See, when you allow that sort of thinking, horrific things happen.

00:27:16.000 And you murder all the Down syndrome babies. 0.97

00:27:19.000 That's right.

00:27:19.000 That's what they do in Iceland, by law.

00:27:21.000 Absolutely.

00:27:21.000 You must abort a Down syndrome baby.

00:27:23.000 Oh, I did not know that.

00:27:24.000 Oh, yeah.

00:27:24.000 It's by law.

00:27:25.000 They basically eradicated Down syndrome in Iceland.

00:27:28.000 And they brag about it.

00:27:28.000 Wow.

00:27:29.000 Because why would you want a Down syndrome baby, right?

00:27:31.000 They're nothing more than a leech on society.

00:27:33.000 They can't...

00:27:33.000 Harvest or think or create?

00:27:36.000 It's frightening to see the way that atheists will logic themselves into positions.

00:27:41.000 And that's why we need a universal morality.

00:27:44.000 It's a language that we should all be able to speak.

00:27:46.000 But they will steal it from us.

00:27:48.000 They will claim it for themselves. 0.70

00:27:50.000 I could talk to you for hours about this, and I want to.

00:27:55.000 Can you crisply describe atheism?

00:27:59.000 If you had to give...

00:28:00.000 When you encounter it...

00:28:03.000 Because I ask this for a reason, because now we're going to get into some of the heavier stuff of the 20th century.

00:28:07.000 Sure.

00:28:08.000 What is atheism, and therefore how could you ascribe that to Hitler and Stalin and all of that?

00:28:14.000 So let's do...

00:28:15.000 To me, atheism and the way I perceived it, the way I ran my life with it, is that there are no gods or God, and specifically the Judeo-Christian God does not exist.

00:28:27.000 And we are best to not live by the teachings of Judeo-Christianity because it has held us back. 0.64

00:28:34.000 That is the way I define atheism.

00:28:37.000 So, atheism is somewhat of a new phenomenon, though.

00:28:42.000 In the ancient world, were there atheists?

00:28:45.000 Very few.

00:28:45.000 I mean, if there were, they didn't write about it.

00:28:47.000 Give me the history of atheism, then we'll get into the last 150 years.

00:28:51.000 Principally did not exist until the 1880s or so as a practical reality.

00:28:57.000 Because of a lot of scientific innovations.

00:29:00.000 Innovations and a lot of philosophies from the German universities.

00:29:04.000 It's always the Germans. 1.00

00:29:05.000 Right, Blake?

00:29:06.000 It's always the Germans. 1.00

00:29:08.000 You know, so when it was in The Simpsons, anybody who speaks German can't be that bad.

00:29:13.000 So anyway, the point is that they created this, they made it more noble.

00:29:17.000 And the idea somehow that it was majestic.

00:29:20.000 And so that kind of gained favor across the Atlantic in America, and they started adopting this as well.

00:29:28.000 And they thought, well, look, we already have a great society, and we need to advance.

00:29:33.000 We need to move to the next step.

00:29:34.000 The way they viewed religion is in much the way we might view a caterpillar that turns into a butterfly.

00:29:43.000 You don't need the cocoon anymore, right?

00:29:46.000 Fly away, my dear butterfly.

00:29:49.000 And that's the way they thought of themselves.

00:29:50.000 They are getting rid of the shackles of God and Christianity and Judaism. 1.00

00:29:55.000 Thank you very much, but we don't need you anymore.

00:29:59.000 Only to discover that it's more like being in an airplane at 30,000 feet and deciding you don't need a pilot, an engine, or for that matter, wings anymore.

00:30:11.000 That's what it's like.

00:30:12.000 So we need to understand that...

00:30:15.000 Without God, horrific things happen.

00:30:17.000 It's the very building block of civilization.

00:30:19.000 But wasn't Hitler Christian? 0.96

00:30:20.000 He was not Christian. 0.99

00:30:23.000 Come on, he had an iron cross or something.

00:30:25.000 Oh, for sure.

00:30:26.000 Oh, and the belt buckles.

00:30:27.000 Never forget the belt buckles.

00:30:29.000 Okay, so this is fascinating.

00:30:31.000 I get this all the time.

00:30:32.000 Yeah, oh yeah.

00:30:33.000 So in Mein Kampf, he made a reference to Jesus.

00:30:38.000 However, that was it.

00:30:40.000 You would think that if he was a Christian, and if Nazism and fascism...

00:30:45.000 They operated on the fuel of Christianity. 0.95

00:30:47.000 You would think that maybe once in a while they would raise a cross in their parades.

00:30:52.000 They didn't.

00:30:53.000 They raised something I consider a crooked cross, a twisted cross into a swastika. 0.87

00:30:59.000 Which was actually an Indian symbol.

00:31:00.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:31:01.000 It was like an Indian fertility symbol or something.

00:31:04.000 Yeah, it's weird.

00:31:04.000 I don't quite know that.

00:31:04.000 Quite the connection between the two.

00:31:05.000 If you go to India, they have swastikas all over the place.

00:31:06.000 Yeah, it's like inverted, right?

00:31:07.000 Correct, yeah.

00:31:08.000 So he didn't do that.

00:31:11.000 Secondly, he wrote...

00:31:13.000 He spoke extensively about his contempt of Christianity.

00:31:17.000 Contempt.

00:31:18.000 So he said that not only was Christianity a feeble religion, he actually used those words, he had contempt for Judaism, of course.

00:31:26.000 He tried to slaughter everyone.

00:31:27.000 He was more than happy to get rid of Christianity as well. 1.00

00:31:30.000 That was his next goal.

00:31:31.000 You really believe so?

00:31:32.000 Oh yeah, very much so.

00:31:33.000 He was already getting rid of a lot of Christians in the camps. 0.97

00:31:36.000 It wasn't just Jews.

00:31:38.000 Jehovah's Witnesses were targeted.

00:31:40.000 Yes.

00:31:40.000 It was gypsies, homosexuals, Jews.

00:31:42.000 Right.

00:31:43.000 And Jehovah's Witnesses of all places. 0.80

00:31:45.000 People forget that.

00:31:45.000 Yeah, they do.

00:31:46.000 Well, Jehovah's Witnesses were fantastic in the saving and rescuing of Jews.

00:31:50.000 No, I know, but Jehovah's Witnesses were like in the camp. 1.00

00:31:52.000 Yes, very much so.

00:31:52.000 A lot of Jehovah's Witnesses died, a lot.

00:31:54.000 They were very vocal against the Nazi regime.

00:31:58.000 To their credit.

00:31:58.000 They could not hold themselves back.

00:32:00.000 And they suffered greatly because of it.

00:32:02.000 With deference to Christians, and I understand, look at me, it was a tough time. 0.97

00:32:07.000 I don't expect people to go...

00:32:09.000 No, no, it was a great failing of the American church. 0.96

00:32:11.000 No, I'm very clear.

00:32:13.000 And Bonhoeffer is one of the great legends of the 20th century.

00:32:16.000 And one other thing about Hitler is that people don't know this.

00:32:20.000 He loved Islam.

00:32:21.000 He said that it was a great shame that Germany...

00:32:26.000 He integrated some of them into the military.

00:32:27.000 Yes, yes, he did.

00:32:28.000 The Free Arab Army or something.

00:32:30.000 That's right.

00:32:31.000 He said what a shame it was that...

00:32:33.000 Germany had adopted Christianity, which was a feeble religion, according to him, and that it would have been better for Germany to have adopted a much more strong, another strong word that he used, I forget what it was, something like robust, religion such as Mohammedism.

00:32:47.000 That's what he called it, Mohammedism. 0.99

00:32:49.000 That's what I call it.

00:32:50.000 Yeah.

00:32:50.000 As a pejorative.

00:32:51.000 Yeah.

00:32:52.000 Well, he meant it as a compliment.

00:32:55.000 But, of course, we all know that...

00:32:56.000 Did Hitler really call it Mohammedism? 0.82

00:32:58.000 Yeah.

00:32:59.000 That's so funny.

00:33:00.000 Yeah, it's a weird...

00:33:02.000 Look, Hitler was...

00:33:03.000 People want to say he was sweet and generous.

00:33:05.000 I'm tired of talking about him all the time, but there is a weird, disturbing fringe of the internet people that are trying to white knight Hitler, and some of these people pretend to be Christian, and he hated Christianity.

00:33:17.000 He absolutely hated Christianity.

00:33:18.000 But then again, at the same time, like, oh no, he was actually Christian, he worked great with the church.

00:33:24.000 It's the opposite, the Islamic one. 1.00

00:33:25.000 That's very interesting he got along with Islam, because I also find some people are...

00:33:29.000 Disturbingly friendly with Islam. 1.00

00:33:30.000 That's actually a really good segue.

00:33:32.000 So let me ask you a critical potential.

00:33:34.000 I agree with everything you're saying.

00:33:36.000 Your website says the world without God is a world of chaos, but then who's God?

00:33:41.000 Is it Allah? 0.90

00:33:42.000 Is it Jehovah? 0.99

00:33:45.000 Is it Adonai?

00:33:46.000 Is it Jesus?

00:33:49.000 Is it Buddha?

00:33:51.000 Right.

00:33:51.000 Do you believe in monotheism?

00:33:53.000 Is that the essence?

00:33:54.000 Monotheism.

00:33:55.000 When I speak about God, I don't want to keep on, in my books and otherwise, I define it quite well in Atheism Kills and Atheism Destroys, that when I say believe in God, I'm talking about the Judeo-Christian God. 0.96

00:34:06.000 I think Judaism and Christianity are one and the same in this department.

00:34:10.000 We share the Old Testament, what we call the Torah.

00:34:13.000 And the Tanakh.

00:34:14.000 And the Tanakh, thank you.

00:34:15.000 Great.

00:34:16.000 You know your stuff really well.

00:34:17.000 But it's...

00:34:19.000 It's great, and I feel like my Christian friends are my brothers.

00:34:22.000 I love them, and we talk together about how God is real and finding Him.

00:34:29.000 It gives me no greater joy, Charlie, than to find yet another proof of God.

00:34:34.000 So beyond just my own internal observations, when somebody else...

00:34:39.000 Reasons with me, like some of your comments have been very helpful, Charlie.

00:34:44.000 Frank Turek, as you mentioned before.

00:34:46.000 Phenomenal person.

00:34:46.000 Gerald Schroeder, he wrote The Science of God, which is a fantastic book as well.

00:34:52.000 I just eat this up.

00:34:55.000 But I write about the dangers of atheism because it's...

00:34:59.000 Look, I'll talk about God all day long, how wonderful God is and how God is real, but I...

00:35:04.000 My main focus is why atheism is so destructive.

00:35:07.000 You can't just believe in God.

00:35:09.000 It's a great school of work that you've positioned yourself.

00:35:12.000 Thank you.

00:35:13.000 Yeah, I don't know anybody else really focusing on that.

00:35:15.000 Well, let's talk about our friend Dennis, right?

00:35:16.000 And we should pray for Dennis.

00:35:18.000 Dennis, everyone knows he's in a tough spot.

00:35:20.000 But Dennis has dedicated his work to the necessity of God as well.

00:35:24.000 Right.

00:35:24.000 You're a friend of Dennis.

00:35:25.000 You've gone on his program many times.

00:35:27.000 Yes.

00:35:28.000 Do you agree with Dennis that it's more impactful or important to begin...

00:35:33.000 With arguing about the necessity of God before we get to the existence of God?

00:35:38.000 I think I always want to be super honest.

00:35:42.000 That is his contention.

00:35:43.000 Yeah.

00:35:44.000 I would...

00:35:44.000 I mean, it may be a difference without significance.

00:35:47.000 I think that one needs to realize that there is a God to explain the beginning of creation to yourself and then wonder what that God wants from us.

00:35:57.000 And then you realize that, yes, God is necessary.

00:36:00.000 Now, Voltaire said...

00:36:02.000 And he was no real believer, by the way, but he said if there were no God, it would be necessary to invent him.

00:36:08.000 And there's a little bit of cynicism associated with that.

00:36:13.000 I think he didn't really believe in God.

00:36:15.000 Dostoevsky hated him.

00:36:18.000 So the idea that we better do this in order to have a civilization made it no different than what I said about myself as an atheist when I was an atheist.

00:36:30.000 I said, I'm an atheist, but thank God nobody else is. 0.54

00:36:34.000 I only attach to Dennis's argument because when I communicate to the college audience, they're living in a place of moral subjectivity.

00:36:44.000 And to break them out of that, to at least have them acknowledge that the world that they pretend to care about, always talking about justice, would be worse off without a belief in the divine.

00:36:56.000 What does a mechanic and auto shop owner in Georgia, a taco restaurant operator in Arizona, and a life-saving medical innovator in Tennessee have in common?

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00:37:08.000 Across the U.S., over 7.5 million businesses, from family-owned shops to entrepreneurs, are using TikTok to compete and grow.

00:37:15.000 We use TikTok all the time on The Charlie Kirk Show.

00:37:17.000 In fact, 74% of businesses on TikTok say TikTok has allowed them to scale their operations, increasing sales, and expanding to new locations.

00:37:25.000 And that growth means jobs.

00:37:27.000 Today, there's over 7.5 million U.S. businesses on TikTok employing more than 28 million people.

00:37:32.000 And that number keeps growing.

00:37:34.000 small businesses thrive on TikTok.

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00:37:43.000 What I say to people in that department is I say all those things that you care about, that you claim to care about, sympathy, compassion, justice, truth, free speech for that matter, all the other things I listed, they cannot exist without God.

00:37:56.000 You are enjoying the benefits of God but without pursuing the obligations of God.

00:38:02.000 And that dog don't hunt for me. 0.99

00:38:06.000 It's a little bit like being in a rowboat.

00:38:08.000 And there's 10 men rowing, and there's this one guy who decides he just wants to relax.

00:38:13.000 Well, he gets to go in the rowboat and continue on.

00:38:16.000 The nine other guys will probably be fine.

00:38:18.000 But at some point, if everyone stops rowing, where does the rowboat go?

00:38:23.000 And I really want to push people on that.

00:38:27.000 Understand your obligation to civilization, to the past and to the present.

00:38:32.000 We only have one time on this earth, and you've got to make it count.

00:38:36.000 Most people...

00:38:38.000 When they say that they don't believe in God, I always correct them.

00:38:42.000 I say, it's not that you don't believe in God.

00:38:44.000 It's that you don't want to believe in God.

00:38:47.000 Very different.

00:38:49.000 But when they really get down to the core of it, that's the reason.

00:38:52.000 I agree.

00:38:53.000 And one of my most effective questions, and I want to spend more time with you, we're running out of time here, is I ask people, if God was real, would you change your behavior?

00:39:01.000 That's a great question.

00:39:03.000 Yeah.

00:39:03.000 I came up with that myself.

00:39:04.000 I hate that question so much.

00:39:07.000 And I'll tell you why.

00:39:08.000 Because I didn't think of it.

00:39:11.000 It's good though, right?

00:39:11.000 It's very good.

00:39:12.000 It's really, really good, Charlie.

00:39:14.000 It's kind of like Dennis where I was thinking and thinking and thinking about this.

00:39:18.000 And as a question, if God was real, would you change anything you're doing?

00:39:22.000 Yeah, it's fantastic.

00:39:24.000 I do have something similar.

00:39:26.000 So I'll pat myself on the back a little bit.

00:39:28.000 But there is a difference between believing in God, even believing in the God fiercely, and knowing that there's a God.

00:39:36.000 Because if you believe in God, you know, you go to church every week, you're good, you're a good citizen.

00:39:42.000 There's always the out.

00:39:43.000 Maybe he's there, maybe he's not there.

00:39:46.000 But if you know he's there, and he is indeed always watching, as you said, I think you change your behavior in more ways than one.

00:39:56.000 So it's great to be a believer.

00:39:58.000 It's necessary to be a believer.

00:40:01.000 But wouldn't you want to know for yourself?

00:40:04.000 With great confidence that there really is a God, I think there's such joy to that, and it makes you a better person.

00:40:11.000 I love living by God's rules.

00:40:15.000 I know that the Ten Commandments were given by God.

00:40:17.000 Yes, I agree completely.

00:40:19.000 It's a joy.

00:40:20.000 No one can convince me otherwise.

00:40:23.000 The Decalogue is one of the greatest, if not the greatest, well, I think Christ's teachings are great as a Christian.

00:40:29.000 But the Decalogue points straight to Christ, moral accomplishments in the history of humanity.

00:40:33.000 That's right.

00:40:34.000 And don't you want to be part of this club?

00:40:37.000 I mean, if you know that God smiles when you live by his commandments, then wouldn't you want that for your own sake and for God's sake?

00:40:53.000 Now, so somebody once said to me, well, you believe in God.

00:40:57.000 You're just a...

00:40:58.000 What is it?

00:41:00.000 Somebody on a leash.

00:41:01.000 You're just an...

00:41:02.000 It's not that you don't believe in God.

00:41:03.000 You're just a jerk who lives on a leash by God, right?

00:41:09.000 And that they are better than you for that.

00:41:11.000 Well, that doesn't float for me because what I have found that when I live by God's commandments, I get insights into God.

00:41:20.000 That is the greatest gift that God can give you.

00:41:23.000 We say this in Judaism.

00:41:24.000 I'm sure it's very similar in Christianity, that whenever you do a mitzvah, It's one of the good deeds you can do.

00:41:31.000 They're actually commandments.

00:41:32.000 All 613.

00:41:34.000 Right, 613.

00:41:36.000 Whenever you do that, and the classic example is helping a little, little lady across the street, fine.

00:41:40.000 But I'm talking about things that you don't even necessarily think about, like paying your gardener right away.

00:41:46.000 Don't wait to pay him a month later.

00:41:48.000 Pay him right away.

00:41:49.000 Day laborers pay right away. 0.99

00:41:51.000 But when you do that, and when you express kindness to somebody, God gives you insight into him just a little bit.

00:41:59.000 You get to peek through the door just for a moment, and it's glorious.

00:42:02.000 That in and of itself is the reward, and that's the way we live.

00:42:07.000 Last question.

00:42:10.000 You've been doing this for years.

00:42:11.000 Yes.

00:42:11.000 You have a great body of work, and I'm going to read your stuff.

00:42:14.000 Thank you for all you're doing, because it's incredibly important to bring people back to the Lord.

00:42:19.000 Are you optimistic that, versus 20 years ago, that the ethical monotheism of Judeo-Christian worldview...

00:42:27.000 Is increasing in popularity and influence.

00:42:31.000 Yes.

00:42:32.000 And I agree with you.

00:42:33.000 Yeah.

00:42:33.000 And I'll tell you why.

00:42:35.000 Because it's evidence in plain sight.

00:42:41.000 The atheists are doing our job for us. 1.00

00:42:45.000 In a sense of, let's not have any kids.

00:42:49.000 Because it's global warming or whatever it is, overpopulation, all that nonsense.

00:42:54.000 So they're not having kids.

00:42:56.000 The Christians are having kids. 1.00

00:42:58.000 The highly observant Jews are having kids. 0.97

00:43:02.000 Mormons are having kids. 0.99

00:43:03.000 Catholics are having kids. 1.00

00:43:04.000 And then they're surprised that Gen Z is now more religious than any other generation before.

00:43:11.000 That's so true.

00:43:12.000 And if you want the best microcosm to prove this point, look at Israel. 0.91

00:43:17.000 Israel, from 1948 to 1978, super liberal, super progressive, socialist in nature.

00:43:25.000 And then Likud, which is their version of republicanism, won the seat.

00:43:30.000 And for the next 20 years, it went back and forth, back and forth.

00:43:35.000 Likud, labor.

00:43:36.000 Likud, labor.

00:43:37.000 Labor is the democrat version in Israeli politics.

00:43:41.000 And then starting in 2006, it's been nothing but Likud.

00:43:45.000 And it's getting more conservative.

00:43:46.000 It's more conservative now.

00:43:47.000 And that's precisely because...

00:43:50.000 Massive amounts of religious Jews are there.

00:43:52.000 They're having kids.

00:43:53.000 They're voting.

00:43:54.000 And right of return, people are coming like crazy.

00:43:55.000 It's fantastic.

00:43:57.000 Atheism destroys.

00:43:58.000 Yes.

00:43:58.000 Atheism kills.

00:43:59.000 Atheism steals.

00:44:01.000 Right.

00:44:01.000 The combo pact.

00:44:02.000 Yes, exactly right.

00:44:03.000 It is a very comprehensive sense.

00:44:06.000 When you read these books, you will know that there's a God.

00:44:10.000 You will come to God, and you will, at the very least, understand how shallow atheistic thinking is.

00:44:19.000 And I really think it's going to be a treasure trove for you, for anyone who reads it, to just enjoy God in the way that God wants us to enjoy.

00:44:29.000 He doesn't want us just to believe in Him.

00:44:31.000 I think He wants us to activate Him.

00:44:35.000 God is a verb more than it is just a belief.

00:44:39.000 Very good.

00:44:40.000 Thank you, my friend.

00:44:41.000 Thank you, Charlie.

00:44:41.000 Barack Lurie, check out his books, Atheism Kills, Atheism Destroys, Atheism Steals.

00:44:46.000 Thanks so much.

00:44:47.000 God bless.

00:44:48.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:44:49.000 Email us, as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - May 22, 2025

If You Found Out God Was Real, Would You Change Your Behavior? ft. Barak Lurie

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