The Charlie Kirk Show - Instead of Hurting the Body, Heal the Spirit: My Conversation with Frank Turek at the Believers Summit

00:00:00.000 Hey everybody, thanks for joining the Charlie Kirk Show.

00:00:01.000 Frank Turek joins the program live from our Believers Summit.

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00:00:09.000 Email me as always freedom at charliekirk.com and subscribe to our podcast and get involved with Turning Point USA at tpusa.com.

00:00:15.000 That is tpusa.com.

00:00:17.000 Buckle up, everybody.

00:00:18.000 Here we go.

00:00:19.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:21.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

00:00:23.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

00:00:26.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:00:30.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:00:30.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:00:31.000 His spirit, his love of this country.

00:00:33.000 He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.

00:00:40.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

00:00:49.000 That's why we are here.

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00:01:09.000 That is noblegoldinvestments.com.

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00:01:17.000 Frank Turek, welcome back.

00:01:19.000 My pleasure, my brother.

00:01:20.000 Thanks for having me on.

00:01:21.000 So, Frank, we are here at the Believer's Summit.

00:01:25.000 You spoke last evening at our Turning Point Action portion of the conference.

00:01:29.000 I said, Frank, no pressure.

00:01:30.000 If you want to do something political, you can, but you went all in for President Trump.

00:01:35.000 Yes.

00:01:35.000 And you are an apologist.

00:01:38.000 Is that fair to say?

00:01:39.000 I'm sorry.

00:01:43.000 I'll kind of backtrack for a second.

00:01:44.000 I found you through a series of online videos, and also things being run on local television, kind of specials.

00:01:52.000 And I reached out, I was like, I gotta meet this guy.

00:01:54.000 And we became friends since.

00:01:56.000 And so, talk about your speech last night, and, you know, your opinion of this election, how it connects to your other work.

00:02:03.000 Well, two of my five books are on politics.

00:02:06.000 The first book I ever wrote was a book called Legislating Morality, because you always hear you can't legislate morality, right?

00:02:11.000 Well, it turns out that's all you can legislate, right?

00:02:13.000 All laws are a legislation of someone's moral point of view.

00:02:17.000 So the only question is whose morality?

00:02:19.000 So Dr. Geisser, my mentor, and I wrote that book way back in the 90s.

00:02:23.000 It was like 1998.

00:02:25.000 And so that was the first book I wrote on politics.

00:02:28.000 The second was a book called Correct, Not Politically Correct.

00:02:30.000 It was originally titled How Same-sex marriage hurts everyone.

00:02:35.000 And I got fired for that book.

00:02:36.000 I was doing work for Fortune 500 companies like Cisco and Bank of America, and when they figured out I had written that book, they fired me in the name of inclusion, tolerance, and diversity.

00:02:46.000 See?

00:02:47.000 Because inclusion, talent, and diversity doesn't mean inclusion, talent, and diversity.

00:02:50.000 It means if you don't agree with our values, we will hurt you.

00:02:54.000 We will exclude you for holding a diverse view.

00:02:57.000 So two of my five books are on politics.

00:02:59.000 I'm always interested in politics, and I think Christians need to be involved in politics, because are only atheists qualified to run the country? 1.00

00:03:06.000 I mean, where do we come up with this idea? 0.92

00:03:08.000 It's silly when you think about it.

00:03:10.000 And so I was speaking as a private citizen last night, Not as a representative of my organization, CrossExamine.org, I was speaking as a private citizen.

00:03:20.000 And I just point out that when you look at the two platforms, they couldn't be more different.

00:03:27.000 And not that the Republican platform is perfect, it's not.

00:03:30.000 But it is much closer to the most important matters of the law that the Bible talks about, that Jesus talked about when he was talking to the politicians of his day.

00:03:39.000 It's much closer to those issues, and it has the better view on those issues than the Democrat platform.

00:03:46.000 So you said something I really want to emphasize, which is so important, and unfortunately far too many Christians and people who are conservative will fall into this trap, which is neutral morality in the public space or neutral morality in the government or educational space.

00:04:02.000 Which is, I'm not here to tell you how to live your life, let's just make morally neutral laws.

00:04:08.000 Does such a thing ever exist?

00:04:10.000 No, and that's a moral position right there.

00:04:12.000 To say we have to be morally neutral is a moral position, and there is no such thing as moral neutrality.

00:04:18.000 Can you explain?

00:04:18.000 Yeah, please.

00:04:19.000 Look, the government can only do one of three things on any issue.

00:04:23.000 They could prohibit, they could permit, or they could promote.

00:04:29.000 Those are the three things a government can do on any issue.

00:04:32.000 Prohibit, permit, or promote.

00:04:35.000 Let's take a very controversial issue that's been, it wasn't controversial, you know, 20, 30 years ago, but marriage, okay?

00:04:42.000 Years ago, homosexuality was prohibited.

00:04:46.000 In fact, in 1986, a Bowers v. Hartwick was a case that went to the Supreme Court, and they upheld state anti-sodomy laws.

00:04:56.000 The court reversed itself in 2003, Lawrence v. Texas, and they said, no, states, you can't say that sodomy is now something that you can prohibit.

00:05:07.000 So it went from prohibit to permit.

00:05:11.000 Once you said, however, that now marriage includes same-sex couples, now you've gone from permit to promote.

00:05:19.000 Now we're promoting the idea that a man and a man, or a woman and a woman, are the same thing to society as a man and a woman, which is clearly not the case.

00:05:30.000 The reason the government's involved in marriage to begin with is to perpetuate and stabilize society.

00:05:37.000 It's not to recognize the romantic affinity between two people.

00:05:40.000 Why would the government care about romantic affinity?

00:05:43.000 The government cares about whether or not you're going to come together and stabilize and perpetuate society.

00:05:50.000 The most stable form of government is the biological two-parent family.

00:05:54.000 That's the essence of civilization.

00:05:57.000 Now if we're going to say that Same-sex relationships are on par with opposite-sex relationships, then what we're essentially saying is that the marriage relationship doesn't matter gender-wise.

00:06:11.000 If it doesn't matter gender-wise, then marriage has nothing to do with children, and if marriage has nothing to do with children, what institution do we have set up to take care of children?

00:06:19.000 We don't have one anymore.

00:06:21.000 So, just from even a natural law, common sense perspective, equating Homosexual relationships and opposite-sex relationships makes no sense from a societal standpoint, but that's what we've done. 0.79

00:06:34.000 We've gone from prohibit to permit to promote.

00:06:37.000 There's no neutrality here.

00:06:38.000 Well, and the promotion also comes through state-sponsored pride parades.

00:06:42.000 Yes.

00:06:43.000 And through Easter becoming the Transgender Day of Awareness and all that, you know, Corinne Jean-Pierre lecturing that she's a lesbian or whatever, right?

00:06:51.000 And so you're totally right.

00:06:53.000 I love that.

00:06:54.000 So it's prohibit, permit, or promote.

00:06:58.000 And I would argue that if you permit it, the government will then end up promoting it.

00:07:02.000 It just ends up happening by natural momentum.

00:07:06.000 Well, Charlie, you've talked about this before, and you'll say it clearer than I will.

00:07:10.000 There's a difference.

00:07:12.000 The government first wants you to tolerate it.

00:07:14.000 You all may get to celebrate.

00:07:16.000 Yes, and I want to make sure I get this right.

00:07:16.000 Explain that.

00:07:18.000 I got it from Matt Walsh.

00:07:19.000 I always try to give attribution, but I use it more than Matt Walsh does.

00:07:24.000 And for the record, I also got what is a woman from Matt Walsh, but I think I've used it more on campus than he has.

00:07:30.000 I think Matt is really special.

00:07:31.000 He's great.

00:07:33.000 So, there's a four-part sequence that goes, which is first, they want you to tolerate certain behavior.

00:07:41.000 Let's use the trans thing, and I want to really dive in on that, because you gave a phenomenal sermon at Jack Kibb's church, a teaching sermon, on the trans issue.

00:07:49.000 So first, you must tolerate it.

00:07:51.000 Okay, alright, I guess I'll tolerate the trans thing. 1.00

00:07:55.000 Then you must accept it.

00:07:57.000 And you say, wait a second, I thought it was about tolerance.

00:07:59.000 So then they care about your inner belief that you must actually accept it.

00:08:04.000 Then you must celebrate it.

00:08:06.000 So you must walk in the parade, and you must... So we went a long way from tolerance, because it used to be tolerance, right?

00:08:14.000 And now it is mandatory celebration.

00:08:18.000 But we're not done yet.

00:08:20.000 The last step, which is where we're going, is participation.

00:08:24.000 And you might say, but I'm a heterosexual.

00:08:27.000 How do I participate in such homosexual or transgender stuff via your children? 1.00

00:08:34.000 So your participation is releasing your children to this mafia. 0.94

00:08:40.000 So we went from a way of, you're a bad person because you don't tolerate the trans-elitary, to now, in California, it's a perfect example. 1.00

00:08:49.000 And I'm so glad President Trump said this in his speech.

00:08:52.000 This is a winning issue, winning issue, and it is a life issue.

00:08:55.000 Make no mistake, this is a life issue.

00:08:58.000 And it is, in California, we went from, in the 1980s, you must tolerate the trans thing or the homosexual thing, where now there is a law where a teacher is forbidden by law to notify the parent if a 12 or 13 year old is trans.

00:09:18.000 The teacher is not allowed to.

00:09:20.000 It's the opposite of the law we want.

00:09:22.000 The law is that the parent should have to, Now the parent, the teacher, by law, if the teacher calls up the parent and says, hey, Susie is on hormone blockers and she's going by Steve, against the law.

00:09:36.000 So that is participation via children.

00:09:39.000 Because they cannot reproduce, so they must recruit. 0.99

00:09:45.000 Isn't it interesting that the state of California now automatically thinks that parents are guilty of abuse?

00:09:55.000 That's correct.

00:09:56.000 In other words, parents are automatically suspect.

00:10:00.000 It's not innocent until proven guilty.

00:10:03.000 If we found one instance of an abusive parent to a so-called trans child, All parents are guilty and the state now becomes the parent. 0.76

00:10:13.000 Do you see where this is going?

00:10:15.000 And you know why it's happened?

00:10:17.000 Because the church has been silent.

00:10:19.000 That's why.

00:10:20.000 We're the problem.

00:10:22.000 I know it's gonna sound odd.

00:10:23.000 I'm with you.

00:10:23.000 I don't really blame the people that have a different worldview because they think what they're doing is right and true.

00:10:30.000 It's us that haven't been engaged enough!

00:10:34.000 Look, I've been doing this for almost, well, over 30 years now, and I have yet to find a person like Charlie Kirk.

00:10:43.000 Somebody who is an outspoken evangelical Christian who realizes the importance because If we give up the political landscape, we're not loving people.

00:10:57.000 He realizes the importance of that and now he's organized enough people that we can actually make a difference here.

00:11:04.000 So this is so important what you've been doing.

00:11:06.000 He's only 30 years old.

00:11:08.000 I'm going to retire soon.

00:11:08.000 I've been doing this for too long.

00:11:10.000 I mean, think about this!

00:11:12.000 Where have the other Charlie Kirks been over the years?

00:11:15.000 I haven't been able to find enough people who are Christians, outspoken evangelical Christians, who can make an argument, who can also make an argument on the political side.

00:11:25.000 Until him!

00:11:26.000 Who else is there?

00:11:27.000 I mean, there are a few.

00:11:28.000 But you're organizing!

00:11:29.000 Well, thank you.

00:11:30.000 Yeah, that's very sweet.

00:11:31.000 And coming from you, Frank, that means a lot.

00:11:33.000 But there's some great voices out there.

00:11:36.000 The one thing I will say that makes us different is that we are also doers, not just communicators.

00:11:42.000 And because we're starting chapters, we have Turning Point Academy, we have ballot chasers, we have... The hardest part of my job... Speaking is easy for me.

00:11:51.000 The radio show is relatively easy.

00:11:54.000 The hardest part of my job is keeping 500 people on staff, you know, raising money for that, getting them to do constructive things.

00:12:01.000 That's very difficult, but I think that's the most rewarding part.

00:12:05.000 Because there always will be commentators and gifted speakers.

00:12:10.000 But the doing aspect, putting on events like this, which I think are very important.

00:12:14.000 That's very nice of you to say.

00:12:16.000 No, it's true though.

00:12:17.000 I mean, who else do you know who's doing this?

00:12:19.000 Who do you know who is actually, not just is a good speaker, but is organizing people to follow the logic of what he's saying?

00:12:29.000 I don't see that out there.

00:12:30.000 And it is the Lord, and he deserves all the credit, because he's blessed this organization so amazingly.

00:12:39.000 Let me say another thing about the trans issue, because I think it's very confusing to people.

00:12:44.000 And let me just say a couple things on it.

00:12:47.000 First of all, on one hand, the trans community, or The people who support this try and say that there are an infinite number of genders, right? 0.51

00:12:59.000 And there's of course a dispute.

00:13:01.000 What is sex?

00:13:01.000 What is gender?

00:13:02.000 The two are the same thing.

00:13:03.000 You're not texted about this.

00:13:04.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:13:07.000 But, on one hand they're trying to say it's an infinite number, but on the other hand, logically, for their movement to even be possible, there can only be two.

00:13:16.000 Because if I'm a man, and I think I'm a woman, I have a psychological mismatch between my psychology and my biology.

00:13:16.000 Why?

00:13:24.000 I have to have some idea what a man is and some idea what a woman is to know I have this psychological mismatch. 0.64

00:13:29.000 If there were no fixed genders, I couldn't even have gender dysphoria. 0.64

00:13:35.000 Secondly, in order for me to make the so-called transition, which, as we all know, is physically impossible, you can't change your biology, You can change your mind, but you can't change your biology.

00:13:45.000 But if I try and make that transition, I again have to have some idea what a man is and some idea what a woman is to even try to transition.

00:13:54.000 So on one hand, they're trying to say, no, there's no fixed genders.

00:13:57.000 On the other hand, Transgenderism and transgender ideology would be completely impossible if there weren't fixed genders. 1.00

00:14:05.000 Also, I don't know if you've noticed, there's a bit of a civil war within the so-called LGBT community.

00:14:11.000 It's not really a community, because if the T's get their way, the L's, the G's, and the B's don't exist. 0.99

00:14:17.000 Because how can you be lesbian, gay, or bisexual, even heterosexual, unless there are fixed genders? 1.00

00:14:23.000 It would be impossible!

00:14:25.000 So, the whole thing is built on an illogical house of cards, and we just need to point that out, and the way to point it out is actually what Matt Walsh does, is he asks a question.

00:14:36.000 What is a woman? 1.00

00:14:39.000 I've taken that from him.

00:14:41.000 It's so much, again, my dream, and I hope it happens, is that President Trump asks Kamala Harris, what is a woman?

00:14:48.000 Uh-huh.

00:14:51.000 Well, here's someone who could actually advise him to do that.

00:14:54.000 I know.

00:14:55.000 And it seems so obvious, but she would lose 10% of the Democrat base no matter how she answers.

00:15:03.000 I'm going to the DNC in Chicago.

00:15:04.000 I'm going to go ask every single delegate I can that question.

00:15:07.000 Hey, Charlie's going, so you don't have to.

00:15:10.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:15:11.000 That's right.

00:15:13.000 So when you guys are members at members.charliekirk.com, you send me into the mission fields, right?

00:15:19.000 I'm from Chicago.

00:15:20.000 It's gonna be mostly peaceful.

00:15:20.000 I can't wait.

00:15:21.000 Mostly peaceful, right?

00:15:24.000 As the riots go on.

00:15:25.000 The whole city will be burning.

00:15:27.000 Reporting live from the DNC.

00:15:30.000 Our hometown doing us proud here.

00:15:32.000 So I want to zero in on this trans thing because I think it's so important.

00:15:36.000 Of all the issues, I see the trans issue as a major winner for us.

00:15:41.000 As far as opening people's eyes.

00:15:44.000 to the sequence of how this degeneracy devolves into family destruction, childhood destruction.

00:15:52.000 And California is the worst of all the offenders currently, but Oregon has taxpayer-funded, you know, gender mutilation surgery, for example, for minors.

00:16:02.000 For minors, just so we're clear.

00:16:04.000 Against parental consent and parental advisement.

00:16:06.000 So Oregon and Washington are similar.

00:16:09.000 This is a very important thing, which is identity.

00:16:12.000 And this is where I don't win a lot of friends over, even in the conservative world.

00:16:17.000 But I think it's very important, which is, I respectfully will push back when people say, I am part of, my identity is that I am lesbian.

00:16:27.000 Or my identity is that I am gay.

00:16:30.000 And so my argument is that you might be well-intended when you say that, or even accept that, but we got trans because we accepted a false premise when it came to the lesbian and the gay issue.

00:16:44.000 So let me just explain it shortly.

00:16:46.000 If you accept that your identity is in your private sexual behavior, and that is your identity, then don't be shocked all of a sudden when someone says, well, my identity is then in me being a boy when I'm a girl or a girl when I'm a boy.

00:17:01.000 Your identity is much bigger than just what you are attracted to sexually.

00:17:07.000 Actually, there's only two identities, saved and unsaved.

00:17:10.000 Those are the only identities that actually matter, right?

00:17:13.000 All the other identities are rather... And then I would say male and female are pretty important, because God cares about those distinctions as well.

00:17:19.000 Do you agree with that, Frank?

00:17:20.000 Yeah, I do.

00:17:21.000 In fact, I don't buy into the premise that because you have a particular attraction, that the action that flows from that is something good and right.

00:17:31.000 Not just good and right, but that's who you are.

00:17:34.000 I mean, for example, we do not have people walk around this conference saying that, you know, I'm an adulterer and you should accept me.

00:17:41.000 That's kind of weird.

00:17:42.000 Right.

00:17:43.000 Well, you know, kind of the phraseology out there, even among the progressive so-called Christians, they're not really Christians, because if you're progressive, you're not actually moving closer to the truth, you're moving further away.

00:17:55.000 And if you're disagreeing with Jesus, you're not a Christian.

00:17:57.000 But in any event, when they say that, I want to live my authentic self, what we should be saying is, I need to be saved from my authentic self.

00:18:08.000 Because my authentic self is evil.

00:18:10.000 And by the way, I can I can prove this to you right now, that your authentic self is evil and so is mine.

00:18:16.000 Let me ask you a question.

00:18:17.000 Let's suppose you woke up this morning in here in the hotel, and when you went into the bathroom to get ready, you looked in the mirror and there was a sign attached to your head that transmitted every single thought you had.

00:18:28.000 You couldn't turn the sign off, you couldn't cover it, no matter where you went today, everyone could read every single thought you had.

00:18:35.000 Would you be sitting here right now if that sign was on your head?

00:18:38.000 Why?

00:18:38.000 No.

00:18:38.000 Because your thoughts are evil.

00:18:40.000 And so are mine.

00:18:41.000 We judge people in the first four seconds we meet them.

00:18:44.000 We're not thinking happy, great thoughts.

00:18:46.000 We're thinking all sorts of different things.

00:18:48.000 And by the way, no extra charge for this.

00:18:49.000 This is why you can't remember names when you meet somebody.

00:18:52.000 Because you're not thinking of the name.

00:18:53.000 You're going, hey, how you doing?

00:18:55.000 That is the ugliest shirt I've ever seen.

00:18:57.000 Right?

00:18:58.000 Hey, where'd you get that haircut?

00:18:59.000 You know, you're not thinking of good, happy thoughts, positive thoughts.

00:18:59.000 Walmart?

00:19:06.000 Your thoughts and my thoughts are depraved. 0.62

00:19:09.000 It's easy to be bad.

00:19:11.000 It's hard to be good.

00:19:12.000 If I were to follow my authentic self, first of all, I would have been dead years ago.

00:19:17.000 You can't follow your heart.

00:19:19.000 You need to guard your heart.

00:19:20.000 Now, with all due respect to President Trump, he has to stop using this follow the heart stuff.

00:19:24.000 Okay?

00:19:24.000 Follow the heart is not Biblical.

00:19:28.000 The Bible says guard your heart, because everything you do flows from it.

00:19:32.000 We need to guard our hearts, not follow our hearts, unless they align with the scriptures.

00:19:38.000 So... Yeah, and the New Age pagan philosophy is around these sort of trappings, and it's tied to the trans movement.

00:19:48.000 Follow your authentic self, you know, go and be who you already are, you're perfect the way you are, These are new-age pagan beliefs.

00:19:57.000 You are enough.

00:19:58.000 Yeah, you are enough, which is just, I don't even know what that means.

00:20:02.000 And the Christian world has embraced so many of these things, where the word, the heart one is a perfect example.

00:20:11.000 And President Trump aside, I hear pastors say this, where they'll say, you know, you gotta follow your heart, or whatever your heart wants you to do, or, you know, love is love, Can you feel it now?

00:20:26.000 Something even bigger is coming.

00:20:28.000 Your God-given freedoms are up for the taking.

00:20:31.000 Even worse, those doing the taking are the same people who've sworn to defend your freedom.

00:20:36.000 They think they can violate your right to protect your own family.

00:20:39.000 They think they can force their delusions onto your kids.

00:20:43.000 They think they can control the media and hide the truth.

00:20:46.000 But you know what they can't take away?

00:20:49.000 Self-reliance and peace of mind.

00:20:51.000 You got water filtration?

00:20:52.000 Well, you should.

00:20:53.000 A charged solar generator?

00:20:55.000 You better.

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00:21:38.000 That is mypatriotsupply.com.

00:21:43.000 The whole LGBT... by the way, it's LGBTQIA2A+.

00:21:47.000 What is it, Daisy?

00:21:48.000 Right?

00:21:48.000 It's very long now, right?

00:21:50.000 We have the new one.

00:21:51.000 It's really something.

00:21:52.000 Which is not insignificant, by the way.

00:21:54.000 Because they are, quote-unquote, progressives, they do not have a moral center, or they do not have something to anchor them.

00:22:02.000 So that acronym will never stop.

00:22:05.000 That's a very important thing.

00:22:07.000 Is that they must always continue the devolve, the devolving descent into darkness or into hell.

00:22:15.000 And they haven't even, they're not even close to getting to, does that make sense what I'm saying?

00:22:19.000 Yeah, well think about this as well.

00:22:21.000 If you put your identity in, say, your sexual preference, say, what happens when you are no longer sexually preferred or you can no longer sexually perform?

00:22:31.000 You no longer have an identity?

00:22:34.000 Or if you put your identity even in a job, in a vocation, what happens when you lose your job?

00:22:38.000 You no longer have an identity.

00:22:40.000 Or you put your identity in another person, what happens when, God forbid, that person dies or leaves you?

00:22:45.000 You no longer have an identity.

00:22:47.000 Your identity, if you put your identity in these things, it's very fragile, it's very temporary.

00:22:52.000 This is why people lose sometimes their lives Because they lose all hope when what they thought was the ultimate identity vanishes.

00:23:03.000 The only identity that's eternal is for you to become a child of God.

00:23:08.000 This is why the biographer...

00:23:12.000 of Jesus, we call him John, wrote a gospel which is really a biography, says in the first chapter he's given you the right to become a child of God by trusting in what Christ has done.

00:23:23.000 That is your identity.

00:23:25.000 That's an eternal identity you can't lose.

00:23:28.000 But all these temporary identities, our authentic self, our authentic self, the God of the universe had to come into this world and take torture upon himself in order to cure us of our authentic selves.

00:23:42.000 And we want to follow our authentic selves.

00:23:45.000 Save me from my authentic self.

00:23:46.000 So, the trans issue, you talked about this at Jack Kibb's church.

00:23:51.000 Can you go through the list of items of how we should approach this?

00:23:55.000 It was like a five-point list.

00:23:56.000 I actually think I wrote it down on my phone.

00:23:57.000 Okay, yeah, I think we ought to ask questions rather than make statements on this issue because as soon as you start asking questions, people can't answer them.

00:24:05.000 Questions like, what is a woman? 1.00

00:24:07.000 In fact, let's take it from, suppose your teenager comes to you and says, Mom, Dad, I'm trans.

00:24:13.000 Do not freak out.

00:24:14.000 That's rule number one.

00:24:15.000 That's Dr. Grossman's rule.

00:24:16.000 Right.

00:24:17.000 Yeah.

00:24:18.000 Because if you freak out, what's the kid gonna do?

00:24:20.000 I'm never coming over that again.

00:24:21.000 Can I interject just for a second?

00:24:21.000 Yeah, please do.

00:24:23.000 Dr. Grossman wrote the best book on this, by the way, Dr. Miriam Grossman, which is called Lost in Transnation.

00:24:28.000 She is this amazing, conservative, orthodox, strong-headed Jewish woman.

00:24:35.000 From New York, and she's the best.

00:24:37.000 Like, you do not want to tick off a Jewish Orthodox doctor, Jewish woman.

00:24:41.000 And she just, she's on a crusade to destroy the childhood trans industry. 1.00

00:24:47.000 And she, cause she's an actual clinician. 0.99

00:24:49.000 She's not someone that just deals in the abstractions.

00:24:52.000 She's in the patient room dealing with kids with gender dysphoria.

00:24:56.000 And she, she says the whole thing is a scam.

00:24:58.000 It's all fake.

00:24:59.000 Like, like only one out of a thousand of these kids actually have what they say they have.

00:25:03.000 It's a social contagion.

00:25:05.000 But it's very important.

00:25:06.000 Parents must understand this.

00:25:07.000 That first conversation...

00:25:09.000 will direct the kid either going further down medical interventions or not.

00:25:15.000 And you must be very curious and be like, oh really, where'd you learn this?

00:25:19.000 Exactly.

00:25:19.000 I want to learn more about this.

00:25:20.000 Not how could you, how dare you.

00:25:22.000 They will only double or triple down and they will never talk to you again.

00:25:25.000 That's right, that's right.

00:25:27.000 And that's true for any issue.

00:25:28.000 No, that's true for any issue.

00:25:29.000 That's great wisdom from the doctor there.

00:25:31.000 So, don't freak out.

00:25:33.000 And then the first question, or you might say, well thank you for telling me.

00:25:36.000 Can we talk about it a little bit?

00:25:37.000 Yeah, go ahead.

00:25:39.000 What do you mean by trans?

00:25:40.000 See if they can even define it, right? 0.97

00:25:43.000 And then just be quiet!

00:25:43.000 What do you mean?

00:25:45.000 Then number two, you might say, what happened that made you feel this way?

00:25:51.000 What happened that made you feel this way?

00:25:52.000 Now, if it's true gender dysphoria, not just the social contagion that Charlie just mentioned, They will probably point to an event. 0.62

00:26:00.000 In fact, Walt Heyer, who lived as a trans woman, so to speak, for about eight years.

00:26:06.000 By the way, Charlie, you have a great way of clearing up what a trans woman and trans man is.

00:26:11.000 You use a word in front of it.

00:26:12.000 It's very fake.

00:26:13.000 Yeah.

00:26:14.000 So I figured this out.

00:26:15.000 If it says trans woman, it's fake woman. 1.00

00:26:17.000 Trans man, fake man. 1.00

00:26:19.000 I was confused.

00:26:19.000 You got it?

00:26:20.000 I couldn't figure out which one was which.

00:26:21.000 I was like, oh my goodness, it's so easy.

00:26:24.000 Okay, so trans woman is a man, and trans man is a woman.

00:26:28.000 You got it?

00:26:29.000 Just put fake in front of it.

00:26:30.000 So every time you hear trans, it's just fake. 0.66

00:26:33.000 I learned that from him.

00:26:34.000 Thank you.

00:26:35.000 Okay.

00:26:36.000 I cleared it all up for you.

00:26:37.000 That's right.

00:26:37.000 Okay.

00:26:38.000 All right.

00:26:38.000 So, where was we?

00:26:41.000 I lost my train of... That's important because I wasn't sure.

00:26:41.000 Where were we?

00:26:45.000 Are they saying that it's a biological person who is trans?

00:26:50.000 I sorted it all out.

00:26:51.000 Oh, it's Walt Heyer, who lived as a trans woman.

00:26:55.000 So a fake woman. 1.00

00:26:56.000 For eight years, became a Christian, then he started sexchangeregret.com.

00:26:59.000 Great ministry.

00:27:00.000 In fact, the new president of Turning Point USA Faith.

00:27:04.000 Yeah, I think we're working with him on that.

00:27:06.000 Lucas Miles.

00:27:07.000 He has an affiliation with Walt Heyer.

00:27:07.000 Yes.

00:27:11.000 I think we're taking on that project.

00:27:12.000 Are you?

00:27:12.000 Okay, good.

00:27:13.000 Anyway, Walt's a great guy, and he's interviewed hundreds or thousands.

00:27:18.000 of people that have come to him for help and he says in every single instance when he asks the question, what made you feel this way?

00:27:25.000 They always point to an event.

00:27:27.000 You know what a good definition of trauma is?

00:27:29.000 A good definition of trauma is when your worldview is shattered.

00:27:33.000 Like for example, you thought your stepfather was a good guy until he molested you.

00:27:38.000 That's trauma.

00:27:40.000 Right?

00:27:40.000 Your worldview is shattered.

00:27:42.000 And so people who have this true gender dysphoria will point to an event like that.

00:27:47.000 And as Walt Heyer says, you can understand the psychology of this.

00:27:51.000 Say a young boy is molested.

00:27:53.000 What does he want to do?

00:27:55.000 He wants to get rid of the organ that was the object of the molestation.

00:28:00.000 So he wants to transition.

00:28:02.000 So you can understand the psychology of it, perhaps.

00:28:05.000 Go ahead.

00:28:06.000 This is important.

00:28:07.000 So this is why Young ladies are 80% of pediatric gender mutilation because they have puberty anxiety, so they want to get rid of the organ that is giving them anxiety. 0.99

00:28:22.000 Trans issues when it comes to young women is almost all unaddressed puberty anxiety.

00:28:30.000 It's literally that simple.

00:28:32.000 With, and this is very important, and I'm sorry to keep interrupting you Frank, but it's that there has almost never been a case In Dr. Miriam Grossman's experience, Dr. Jordan Peterson's research, of all people, there's almost never been a case of somebody that is quote-unquote trans, that does not have underlying bipolar issues, schizophrenic issues, depression, generalized anxiety disorder.

00:28:55.000 And so the trans issue, it would be like this.

00:28:58.000 If I'm a clinician, which again, none of this is medicine.

00:29:01.000 We have thrown out all the rules of medicine and we've brought in witchcraft. 0.99

00:29:05.000 Not a joke.

00:29:06.000 This is witchcraft and this is voodoo stuff. 1.00

00:29:09.000 This is not all the laws of all the principles of Western medicine have been thrown out.

00:29:14.000 So for example, if I'm a clinician and somebody comes to me and they say, I have a fever.

00:29:19.000 It tells me nothing.

00:29:21.000 A fever is a symptom.

00:29:23.000 There's no sickness called fever.

00:29:24.000 Okay?

00:29:25.000 You go look through the medical journal of Western medicine.

00:29:28.000 There are 655 different things that could cause a fever.

00:29:33.000 COVID could cause a fever.

00:29:34.000 A burst appendix could cause a fever.

00:29:37.000 Food poisoning can cause a fever.

00:29:38.000 The flu can cause a fever.

00:29:41.000 Cowbell can cause a fever.

00:29:42.000 I got a fever from more cowbells!

00:29:46.000 So what a clinician needs to do then is say, okay, what is causing the fever?

00:29:53.000 So instead we have these kids coming in with a quote-unquote fever, trans issue, and say, oh, got it, let's go give you drugs and surgery. 0.99

00:30:02.000 When in reality, there's something causing their gender dysphoria, and we're not even going to the underlying cause.

00:30:09.000 Said differently, the trans issue, and Frank, you've said it really well, is a brain issue that we then address as a body issue. 0.53

00:30:18.000 So instead of hurting the body, maybe we should heal the brain.

00:30:21.000 That's right.

00:30:23.000 You know, a perfect analog, as Dr. Paul McHugh at John Hopkins, the psychiatrist, said, transgenderism has an analog, a perfect analog known as anorexia. 0.90

00:30:35.000 If someone is an anorexic, you would never go to them and say, you know, you're right, let me give you liposuction.

00:30:41.000 You would say, honey, your mind is playing tricks on you, you need nutrition.

00:30:46.000 In other words, you would treat the medical condition as a delusion.

00:30:52.000 It's a mental issue.

00:30:53.000 It's not a physical issue.

00:30:55.000 They need to fix their mind.

00:30:57.000 Well, the same thing is true when it comes to transgenderism. 1.00

00:31:00.000 They have a mental delusion and the mind needs to change. 0.98

00:31:03.000 It's not the body that needs to change.

00:31:05.000 I mean, look, if your daughter came to you and said, Mom, Dad, I'm a mermaid, would you take her off the coast and drop her in the ocean?

00:31:12.000 You know, of course you wouldn't!

00:31:13.000 You would say, honey, your mind is playing tricks on you.

00:31:16.000 We need to get you psychiatry. 1.00

00:31:17.000 We need to get you counseling.

00:31:18.000 We need to get you prayer.

00:31:20.000 We need to get you healing of your mind.

00:31:22.000 Yet when it comes to sex, somehow we lose our minds.

00:31:25.000 And we say, oh no, yeah, we can change your body.

00:31:28.000 You can't change your body.

00:31:29.000 No, and the secondary point to this, how did we get here?

00:31:33.000 Number one, the way that we started to do education was a pupil-driven model of education.

00:31:40.000 not a teacher-driven model of education, where, and I lived through this, where the teacher all of a sudden believes that the students are correct, and the students must lead the educational environment, and you hear it all the time, which is, well, you never know the wisdom of a fourth grader. 0.99

00:31:59.000 Yeah, like, fourth graders are really dumb, actually. 0.96

00:32:01.000 There's not a lot of wisdom at all, and you should be teaching them. 0.99

00:32:04.000 You shouldn't be, like, learning from fourth graders.

00:32:06.000 How do you get to such a view?

00:32:07.000 And now, all of a sudden, this is going to complete the circle for you.

00:32:10.000 You get to such a view if you believe human beings are basically good.

00:32:16.000 Hear me out.

00:32:18.000 We as Christians believe human beings are depraved, original sin.

00:32:21.000 So if you believe human beings are basically good, as Jean-Jacques Rousseau would, so he preferred the infant over the adult, and the primitive over the civilized, then the younger you are, the more innocent you are, And therefore, the more correct you are, because you haven't been polluted or contaminated by this evil and terrible society.

00:32:40.000 Let me stop right here.

00:32:41.000 Let me just interject.

00:32:42.000 How is the society evil if everybody's inherently good?

00:32:46.000 That's right.

00:32:47.000 Do you see the problem here?

00:32:49.000 They want to have it both ways.

00:32:50.000 Sorry, go ahead.

00:32:50.000 Well, no, they say that because everyone's good, but we have been poisoned by capitalism and poisoned by Colonialism.

00:32:59.000 Right, but who brought us that?

00:33:00.000 Human beings!

00:33:00.000 Yes, though that's correct, and they... If they're right, but they're not right.

00:33:04.000 Of course they're not right.

00:33:05.000 And when you examine them, this is why it's so easy to debunk these nimwits, is that they say, well, the indigenous people before colonialism.

00:33:16.000 Oh yeah, that's right.

00:33:17.000 Native Americans never killed each other.

00:33:18.000 Totally freaking...

00:33:20.000 And by the way, just so we're clear, a recent archaeological discovery in southwestern New Mexico shows the greatest percentage of a genocide in the history of recorded people, where it was like one-fourth of all living people were killed, of two warring tribes that went to war with each other, like a thousand years before the Europeans ever came to North America.

00:33:42.000 Let me just kind of complete the point, which is if you believe human beings are basically good, Therefore, you think that children are the ones that have the wisdom and we are the ones that are at fault.

00:33:55.000 So then you extrapolate that to the trans issue.

00:33:58.000 The 12-year-old must be right because they haven't been as contaminated by Western society as we have.

00:34:05.000 The biblical idea that human beings are basically awful Is what built a free society.

00:34:11.000 The New Age idea that human beings are basically good is what's destroying our society.

00:34:15.000 And this is why people think socialism can work, because they think that people are inherently good.

00:34:21.000 No, we're not!

00:34:22.000 You know, these people think that people are going to work as much as they can and take only what they need.

00:34:29.000 The truth of the matter is, people are going to work as little as they can and take as much as they want.

00:34:36.000 That's why none of these programs that assume human beings are inherently good work, because they're going against reality.

00:34:45.000 But let's go back to the trans issue for a second.

00:34:46.000 Please.

00:34:48.000 So you're talking to your child again, after we've gone on all these tangents here.

00:34:52.000 We're back to your child.

00:34:54.000 Charlie and Frank bounce all over.

00:34:56.000 I think you guys like it though, right?

00:34:57.000 It's a lot of fun.

00:34:58.000 So, you don't freak out.

00:35:01.000 How did this happen?

00:35:02.000 What made you feel this way?

00:35:04.000 They'll always point to an event.

00:35:06.000 And then you might ask them, do feelings always tell you the truth?

00:35:10.000 Of course they don't.

00:35:13.000 Secondly, do feelings ever change?

00:35:16.000 Honey, two months ago you were not trans and now you are. 1.00

00:35:20.000 Do you think your feelings might change again?

00:35:23.000 Then you can ask, have you ever considered that 80% of people like you who have this gender dysphoria grow out of it by the time they're 18, and 96% grow out of it by the time they're 26?

00:35:41.000 And you might also ask, have you looked in to the consequences of trying to transition?

00:35:47.000 I can almost guarantee you they haven't.

00:35:49.000 Do you know there is no known protocol for sex change operation?

00:35:53.000 Because it's impossible, you can't do it.

00:35:55.000 This is why someone like Chloe Cole is suing her doctor, or doctors, because they did, in her opinion, Nazi-like experiments on her. 0.91

00:36:03.000 You cannot transition to another sex! 1.00

00:36:06.000 It's impossible!

00:36:08.000 By the way, let's go to apologetics on Christianity for a second.

00:36:12.000 If someone ever asks you, do you have any evidence that God exists, you ought to say to them, do you have any evidence that gender exists?

00:36:19.000 Or that sex exists?

00:36:20.000 If they say no to sex, I say, I can't help you with the God issue. 0.97

00:36:24.000 If you can't look in the mirror and see what's staring at you in the mirror, and you won't acknowledge that, how am I going to convince you that there's an invisible being who created and sustains the universe?

00:36:24.000 Right?

00:36:36.000 You won't even believe what's in front of your eyes!

00:36:39.000 It's perfectly said.

00:36:40.000 And on the mutilation issue, that puberty is not the problem, puberty is the solution.

00:36:51.000 Almost every woman in this room would say that at some point they felt uncomfortable in their body during a period of puberty.

00:36:59.000 Right?

00:37:01.000 But now we give young ladies surgery when they feel uncomfortable with their body in puberty. 0.99

00:37:06.000 And it is irreversible damage.

00:37:08.000 That's right.

00:37:09.000 And I believe this, and I think that we, from a political standpoint if I may, we as Republicans are not playing offense enough with this issue during this election year.

00:37:20.000 I think this is a 90-10 issue even with Democrats.

00:37:23.000 I think that only the most puritanical left-wing zealots are in favor of this.

00:37:29.000 For example, in Illinois, one of the worst states when it comes to this, the DNC is going to be in Chicago.

00:37:39.000 We should just be nonstop talking about how children are being experimented upon and castrated.

00:37:47.000 You agree, Frank, but I want you to give some theological context to this.

00:37:51.000 This is demonic.

00:37:53.000 And Satan was unable to kill them in the womb, so he wants to castrate them when they're teenagers. 0.96

00:37:58.000 Has God said? 0.97

00:37:59.000 That's the first lie, right?

00:38:01.000 Has God said?

00:38:02.000 Has God said there are men and women?

00:38:05.000 Has he made men and women?

00:38:07.000 By the way, our mutual friend Seth Dillon of the Babylon Bee, his folks at the Babylon Bee put together a wonderful little YouTube video called Woke Jesus.

00:38:16.000 Have you seen it?

00:38:16.000 Oh, it's excellent.

00:38:17.000 You need to go watch Woke Jesus because humor makes the point better than Charlie and I just giving you didactic teaching on it.

00:38:24.000 You know, Jesus is in there saying, yes, God made trans men and God made All sorts of these different gender dysphoric names.

00:38:24.000 Yes.

00:38:37.000 Jesus at one point goes, sure, whatever you want.

00:38:39.000 Yeah, whatever you want.

00:38:40.000 God made... No, he didn't!

00:38:42.000 It's a lie!

00:38:43.000 You don't help people by lying to them.

00:38:47.000 And that's what silent pastors are doing, by the way.

00:38:50.000 They're allowing the culture to overwhelm their congregants, and they're not correcting the misinformation.

00:38:59.000 Did you know that since 1980, China and India's fossil fuel use has soared 600% and 700% respectively?

00:39:06.000 During that time, China's life expectancy shot up 14 years, and India soared by 17 years.

00:39:12.000 Seems a far cry from AOC's alarmist message that if we do not adopt her extremist policies and ideas, life would end, incomes would crater, and the world would end in 12 years.

00:39:24.000 Famines have been wiped out because we can move food quickly and efficiently, because American energy saves lives.

00:39:30.000 And in America, we produce that energy more cleanly than anywhere else on Earth.

00:39:34.000 I'm Charlie Kirk here.

00:39:35.000 I want you to know the facts when you're debating your liberal relatives or friends.

00:39:39.000 So listen carefully.

00:39:40.000 Go to oilfacts.com and get educated today on these critical facts, the need for American energy, and what we can do to keep billions more from catastrophic deaths from happening.

00:39:51.000 These facts are irrefutable.

00:39:53.000 Go to oilfacts.com.

00:39:55.000 That is oilfacts.com.

00:39:58.000 These facts are brought to you by the Prairie Operating Group, dedicated to safe and responsible production of American energy.

00:40:07.000 Why are so many pastors silent on, at the very least, the child trans issue?

00:40:15.000 Look, you always hear about tax exemption.

00:40:18.000 Ladies and gentlemen, we're not called to be tax exempt.

00:40:20.000 We're called to be salt and light.

00:40:22.000 Okay.

00:40:24.000 You know, and it has nothing to do with, no one's going to lose their tax-exempt status anyway.

00:40:28.000 On that issue, no way.

00:40:28.000 Yeah, I know, I know.

00:40:30.000 How can, if you can't speak out against child mutilation, you can't speak out against anything.

00:40:35.000 And notice, by the way, was child mutilation a political issue 10 years ago?

00:40:39.000 No.

00:40:40.000 Now it is.

00:40:42.000 Are we going to say, well, we can't talk about that because it's political?

00:40:45.000 In fact, I'm tired of politicians, I'm sorry, I'm tired of pastors.

00:40:48.000 Yes.

00:40:48.000 I'm sorry.

00:40:49.000 Let me stop.

00:40:50.000 I love pastors.

00:40:52.000 Okay?

00:40:52.000 Because pastors have the second hardest job in American Christianity.

00:40:56.000 The hardest job is pastor's wife. 1.00

00:40:59.000 But the second hardest job is being a pastor.

00:41:03.000 You're expected to do everything and everything well.

00:41:05.000 I get all that.

00:41:06.000 It's a very difficult job.

00:41:08.000 But I'm tired of pastors saying, this isn't political, this is biblical.

00:41:14.000 As if Christians ought to stay out of politics. 1.00

00:41:19.000 Where do we come up with this?

00:41:20.000 I mean, Charlie mentioned this last night.

00:41:22.000 Who started the country?

00:41:24.000 Christians!

00:41:25.000 We wouldn't even have America if Christians hadn't gotten involved in politics. 1.00

00:41:28.000 Why do we cede politics to unbelievers? 0.99

00:41:33.000 We shouldn't.

00:41:34.000 So we need to correct, it reminds me of that famous C.S.

00:41:38.000 Lewis quote who said, good philosophy must exist if for no other reason to correct bad philosophy.

00:41:44.000 And so we need to get out there and protect people from evil.

00:41:48.000 That's what we're supposed to be, shepherds, we're supposed to protect the sheep and we don't when we don't speak up on these issues.

00:41:55.000 Can I go back to one other issue?

00:41:57.000 You mentioned, we got to talk about Israel for just a second.

00:42:00.000 You mentioned about the genocide that the Native American Indians apparently committed.

00:42:05.000 Through archaeology, we discovered this.

00:42:07.000 Isn't it interesting that here in America, the people that were the indigenous people are seen as having a right to the land?

00:42:17.000 We, the white men, we're colonialists.

00:42:19.000 But when you go over to Israel, they flip it. 0.81

00:42:23.000 The leftists flip it.

00:42:24.000 The people that really had the land are now the colonialists, and the new folks, who never had a state, because Palestine was never a state, are somehow righteous. 0.87

00:42:34.000 How do they flip – well, look, if liberals didn't have double standards, they'd have no standards, right?

00:42:39.000 Well, it's important.

00:42:41.000 No, that's exactly right.

00:42:43.000 And they flip it because Israel and America are built on the Bible, and Israel is an outpost of Western society in a sea of totalitarianism, and they hate that.

00:42:56.000 Because Israel has borders and Israel has a belief in the divine. 0.96

00:43:02.000 So Israel must be destroyed at all costs. 0.97

00:43:05.000 And I mean, Israel has plenty of problems. 0.94

00:43:06.000 I'm not an apologist for the Israeli government, but this is what's very important.

00:43:10.000 You can tell immediately.

00:43:12.000 You ask somebody, forget the Israeli government, are you okay with the idea of Israel?

00:43:17.000 And they're not.

00:43:19.000 They're not okay with an idea of one single Jewish state that exists in the land of Canaan, which is Judea and Samaria.

00:43:29.000 They're not okay with that.

00:43:30.000 For the reason being is that they look at Israel being a colonialist project.

00:43:35.000 And by colonialism, that's their Isn't it amazing that there are people who will smear Donald Trump as Hitler when these very same people are supporting, literally, the new Nazi party? 0.99

00:43:54.000 I mean, these people want Jews dead! 0.77

00:43:58.000 Isn't it amazing, the double standard here? 0.98

00:44:01.000 They will call someone who's not Hitler, Hitler, while they themselves are supporting people who are carrying on Nazi ideology, literally.

00:44:10.000 They are murdering people.

00:44:12.000 So, Frank, I want to get a couple questions here, because we have five minutes, but it's crossexamined.org.

00:44:16.000 So, if you ask a question, it has to be literally short, because this is on a podcast, and I'm going to repeat it.

00:44:22.000 So, yes ma'am, first.

00:44:24.000 Emily, thank you for being a member and for that.

00:44:26.000 She's been studying mental health for quite some time, and there is a code of conduct that she must follow.

00:44:32.000 As a Christian conservative, should you go into that space or not go into that space?

00:44:36.000 Difficult question to answer.

00:44:38.000 Yeah, we have a mic, too, for the other questions.

00:44:39.000 Great.

00:44:40.000 Frank, if you have a strong opinion on that, you can interject.

00:44:42.000 The issue is that they have changed the DSM-5 so significantly that you will be forced to do things against your conscience.

00:44:51.000 You will.

00:44:52.000 Now, if you are able to find religious... It depends on the state, too.

00:44:56.000 You are not allowed in California, as a mental health professional, to give therapy to trans youth that tells them anything other than affirmation.

00:45:07.000 It is against the law.

00:45:09.000 You must affirm.

00:45:11.000 Now, I hope you understand how insane this is. 0.95

00:45:13.000 So we must affirm people's mental illness. 0.94

00:45:16.000 So if somebody is suicidal, you should affirm their suicide?

00:45:19.000 The answer is yes.

00:45:22.000 They do not believe in treatment.

00:45:23.000 They don't believe in healing.

00:45:26.000 Gender-affirming care, at its core, is evil. 0.99

00:45:30.000 It should be treatment, not affirmation.

00:45:33.000 And so it's a difficult answer.

00:45:35.000 It depends on the state.

00:45:36.000 If you go to Texas or here in Florida, I bet you have more freedom to be able to practice.

00:45:42.000 But understand the national boards themselves are completely captured.

00:45:47.000 The American Pediatric Association, The American Medical Association.

00:45:51.000 Do you know that University of Minnesota, they have changed their swearing-in oath?

00:45:57.000 Again, how this is not national news shows how corrupt our media is.

00:46:00.000 The Hippocratic Oath is typically, I will do no harm, so on and so forth.

00:46:04.000 It is now, I will protect indigenous peoples, I will do everything I can to crush white supremacy.

00:46:10.000 These are people wearing white coats at the swearing-in ceremony at University of Minnesota.

00:46:15.000 If you don't believe me, look it up.

00:46:17.000 The future doctors and future medical professionals are taking an oath To crush white supremacy and to elevate BLM and trans zealotry in their industry.

00:46:26.000 Do you have a thought on this?

00:46:27.000 Well, I have that in the book, correct?

00:46:28.000 Not politically correct.

00:46:29.000 The new edition of it is about transgenderism and same-sex marriage, and Charlie's saying it exactly right. 1.00

00:46:34.000 Now they're taking an oath actually to commit to indigenous healing practices.

00:46:39.000 That's correct.

00:46:40.000 So you might go to a doctor thinking he's practicing the scientific method, but he's really going to do a chant over you.

00:46:46.000 And put some spices on you.

00:46:47.000 I'm not kidding.

00:46:48.000 So this is what's important.

00:46:49.000 Remember that the Western medical tradition is being destroyed by wokeism, where they think, oh well, Native American healing practices are the same as antibiotics.

00:47:02.000 Not a joke.

00:47:04.000 Because who's to say?

00:47:05.000 Science is a creation of the white man. 0.99

00:47:09.000 You could see how the downfall of society happens here.

00:47:13.000 And that's what they want.

00:47:14.000 By the way, do you see the... Oh, sorry, let's go on to another question.

00:47:16.000 We've got time.

00:47:17.000 I could go on forever.

00:47:18.000 Yes, sir.

00:47:19.000 Right there.

00:47:20.000 Hi, my name is Patrick.

00:47:21.000 So I grew up in a highly politically involved conservative Christian household, and I watched as the emphasis on political ideology and politics, and apologetics as well, took over my dad's heart and ultimately made him bitter and cynical.

00:47:38.000 And it destroyed my family.

00:47:39.000 So now, today, I'm a confessing Christian.

00:47:42.000 The Lord saved me a few years ago.

00:47:44.000 And, you know, glory to God.

00:47:47.000 And I actually just started a job with you.

00:47:48.000 I work for Turning Point Action.

00:47:50.000 So, I had a prayer a year ago that the Lord would save me from ever becoming a political, hypocritical Christian, but to be a true confessing Christian with the heart of Christ.

00:48:00.000 Now here I am, somewhat involved in politics and intending to grow more deeply involved.

00:48:05.000 Do you have any advice or recommendations to guard my heart and to not become what I see hypocritical and religious on the right?

00:48:14.000 That's great.

00:48:14.000 That is a fabulous question.

00:48:16.000 I love that.

00:48:18.000 I think one thing we need to say is that just because some people can go to an extreme doesn't mean people can't get involved politically properly.

00:48:29.000 In other words, you don't judge a philosophy by its abuse, you judge it by its proper use.

00:48:35.000 So yes, Christians should be involved politically, but like anything, we can go too far in any one of a number of areas of life.

00:48:42.000 So I think maybe if you get some personal accountability with people, and you have a good prayer life, and you ensure that politics isn't at the top of your priority list, it's somewhere in there, At the top of our priority list should always be Jesus, should always be knowing God and making Him known.

00:48:59.000 But as Charlie has said so well, in fact he'll say it better than I will right now, I tried to make that point last night that politics affects our ability to preach the gospel, but you put it in a succincter way.

00:49:08.000 Go ahead, make that point.

00:49:09.000 I don't remember exactly what I said.

00:49:11.000 No, when you say the most important thing to do and then the second most important thing... Oh yeah, that's correct.

00:49:15.000 So the most important thing is winning people over for Jesus.

00:49:19.000 The second most important thing is making sure you can do the first thing.

00:49:22.000 See, that's why politics is important.

00:49:24.000 As I said last night, the most important thing is not who you pick in the election.

00:49:29.000 It's who you pick as your Lord and Savior.

00:49:31.000 But the ability to hear and preach and live the message is important as well, and that's where politics comes in.

00:49:39.000 So, in order to guard your heart, God gives us an instruction manual, and it's the Decalogue.

00:49:44.000 So, have no other gods before me.

00:49:46.000 Politics should not be more important than Jesus.

00:49:49.000 Your Trump flag should not be more important than going to church.

00:49:52.000 Right?

00:49:52.000 And I say this as someone who's awfully political, right guys?

00:49:55.000 I believe, though, that we as Christians have failed on two of the Ten Commandments more so than we would like to recognize.

00:50:02.000 One of which is honoring the Sabbath.

00:50:03.000 As you guys know, I'm a big Sabbath fan.

00:50:05.000 I'm going to talk about that in a second.

00:50:06.000 The second of which is that even though your father has become bitter, you are commanded to still honor him.

00:50:12.000 And to honor him means you must take that seriously.

00:50:15.000 And so don't disconnect from your father.

00:50:17.000 Call him every week.

00:50:18.000 Take him out for lunch.

00:50:19.000 You will be better because of it and his life will be better because of it.

00:50:22.000 Because you're saved and maybe you can make him less bitter and more sweet.

00:50:27.000 So honor your mother and father so that you may live long in the land of which you are in.

00:50:31.000 Only one of the Ten Commandments with a promise and involves your nation.

00:50:34.000 But the Sabbath is very important.

00:50:36.000 If it wasn't this event, almost every Saturday, with a couple exceptions, from Friday night to Sunday morning, I turn off my phone and there is no work.

00:50:43.000 This is a great way, I believe God gave it to us for many reasons, to guard against false gods.

00:50:48.000 For six days you shall work, for the seventh day you shall rest.

00:50:52.000 The Sabbath, which literally means stop in Hebrew, Shabbat, which means to cease all activity, I believe has been the greatest, the least observed of the Ten Commandments of the American Church for the last 30 years.

00:51:05.000 Would you guys agree with that?

00:51:06.000 I would say that, and I'm not here as a moralist or as a legalist, you guys know how I'm approaching this, but if God repeatedly wants us to stop activity, which remember, the Sabbath is the longest standing celebration and ordination of time celebrating what?

00:51:23.000 God creating the heavens and the earth.

00:51:25.000 Do every week, do we take time and say, God, thank you for creation?

00:51:29.000 You're going back to Genesis 1-1 every week.

00:51:31.000 Number two, it's easier to honor your parents, easier to have a strong family, easier to not covet, easier to not steal, easier to not murder, easier not to commit adultery when you're completely stopping all activity.

00:51:42.000 It makes all the other commandments easier.

00:51:44.000 And finally and most importantly, as we hyper-rush into modernity right now, with phones and television and social media, what a great biblical way to reset our soul and our being every week and disconnect from all of that chatter.

00:52:01.000 So that's a discipline.

00:52:03.000 So I'm a big believer that you become what you do, And what you do needs to be biblical disciplines that don't take thought after periods of time, but they are good for you, such as honoring the Sabbath, calling, you know, observing the Sabbath, calling your parents and honoring them, but also reading your Bible every single day, getting around a community that really cherishes you.

00:52:25.000 You are an average of the five people you spend most time with.

00:52:30.000 So a good homework assignment is write those five people down, that's who you become.

00:52:34.000 And if they're gossipy, and if they are not Christian or secular, you become that.

00:52:40.000 And the inverse is also true.

00:52:41.000 So that's my comment on that.

00:52:44.000 We got two more questions, yeah.

00:52:47.000 We'll go to BlackSitHatMan, my man here. 0.85

00:52:50.000 That's you, you're wearing a BlackSitHat.

00:52:53.000 Alright, so Charlie, my question is more about Like the Bible itself.

00:52:58.000 So as a Cuban immigrant, often the words of the Bible were misconstrued by like the Castro regime.

00:53:06.000 And we see that today more than ever, like verses are being taken off the Bible by like China. 0.97

00:53:12.000 And a lot of Bibles are being distributed with certain sections that, you know, are supposed to be there.

00:53:18.000 So my question is mostly like, what version of the Bible do you recommend us to read?

00:53:23.000 And how can we, you know, combat this ongoing attack on Christianity?

00:53:27.000 Yeah, I'm an ESV guy, I don't know if you agree, but... I'm the NIV guy, the Nearly Inspired Version.

00:53:33.000 Yeah.

00:53:33.000 Okay, look, most versions are okay, there are some that are not, like the Passion Version, or the New World Translation, or yeah, they're, you know, they're... But most Bibles are okay.

00:53:43.000 The bigger issue is we need to realize there are no verses in the Bible.

00:53:48.000 What do I mean by that?

00:53:50.000 When, say, Matthew was writing his gospel, do you think he said, here's chapter 5, verse 1?

00:53:55.000 No.

00:53:56.000 The chapter and verse divisions were added about 500 years ago to help us navigate the text, which is really important, because it'd be hard to find your way around this big series of documents we call a Bible if you didn't have numbers in it, right?

00:54:08.000 I mean, imagine if some pastor, your pastor, got up one Sunday morning with this huge book, didn't have numbers, he didn't have numbers in his book, you didn't have numbers in your book, and he just looked at you and he said, Let's go about two-thirds of the way in.

00:54:20.000 Let's see if we can find the same spot, right?

00:54:22.000 No, you couldn't do that, right?

00:54:23.000 You need numbers to find your way around.

00:54:25.000 The problem is we tend to think if it's got a number in front of it, we can take it out and make it say whatever we want.

00:54:31.000 We can't. 1.00

00:54:31.000 That's why like the judge not thing is so stupid. 1.00

00:54:35.000 People just stop there. 1.00

00:54:36.000 Jesus didn't say judge not and stop right there.

00:54:39.000 That would be self-defeating.

00:54:40.000 It's a judgment itself.

00:54:42.000 He said judge not Lest you be judged by the same standard you judge others, you'll be judged by that standard. 1.00

00:54:48.000 So before you try and take the speck out of your brother's eye, you hypocrite, which is a judgment, you notice that, you hypocrite? 0.99

00:54:54.000 Take the log out of your own eye first, then you'll be better able to help your brother. 0.99

00:54:57.000 So this is not a command not to judge, it's a command on how to judge.

00:55:01.000 Don't judge hypocritically.

00:55:02.000 If you've got that problem, fix it, then go help your brother.

00:55:05.000 So don't take one verse out of context.

00:55:08.000 Try and figure out what it means, which means you have to read around it.

00:55:11.000 That's the biggest problem in Christianity right now when it comes to Bible interpretation.

00:55:15.000 People just yanking stuff out of context.

00:55:17.000 We'll do one more on this side of the room.

00:55:19.000 I want to make sure both sides are given treatment.

00:55:21.000 And then who do we have at 1115?

00:55:23.000 Oh, we have Cliff.

00:55:24.000 That's amazing.

00:55:24.000 Yeah.

00:55:25.000 So you guys are in for a show.

00:55:26.000 Hello, my name is Morgan.

00:55:28.000 I work for a church here in Florida.

00:55:30.000 And so, part of the question is, I see younger men, like Charlie's age, that are very involved with politics, but getting them to step into the church, like that 25 to 35 age group, it seems impossible to draw them in.

00:55:45.000 Do you have advice in that field?

00:55:47.000 How do we, as the church, do better pulling in the working class men?

00:55:51.000 Yeah, love it.

00:55:52.000 Yes.

00:55:54.000 I say this not directed towards you, but the church has to stop being so feminine. 1.00

00:56:01.000 I hope you receive that.

00:56:03.000 But the church is so feminine, okay, in its presentation, from how the male pastors dress,

00:56:09.000 from how they do their sermons, and it's a very big issue.

00:56:15.000 Men do not feel represented, listened to, or part of the modern American church.

00:56:22.000 It's very focused on, like, book clubs and social hour.

00:56:28.000 That's not how men are wired at all.

00:56:30.000 There are very effective men's ministries, as Frank knows, across the country that do a good job of this.

00:56:35.000 But I could tell you, the churches that are expanding very quickly, the working class men, I think of Jack Hibbs, right?

00:56:42.000 Alan Jackson?

00:56:43.000 Alan Jackson.

00:56:44.000 Right here?

00:56:45.000 What men want when they go to church is very different than what women want. 0.99

00:56:50.000 Women typically do not respond very well to a gospel that says, you're a terrible sinner, get your act together, you're a loser, you need Jesus, and you better step up. 1.00

00:57:03.000 That is very, very, very hostile to modern, suburban, love-eat-pray, you know, Christianity. 1.00

00:57:12.000 Or is it eat-pray-love, or I got it all messed up, right?

00:57:15.000 Whatever.

00:57:16.000 But look at some of the most successful pastors who were able to build strong churches of working-class men.

00:57:24.000 Andrew in the audience here would tell you, Mark Driscoll did this at Mars Hill in Seattle, and he's doing it again in Phoenix.

00:57:30.000 I know people all have opinions of Mark Driscoll, but it's just a fact.

00:57:33.000 He was able to build a church, right?

00:57:35.000 Would you agree, Frank?

00:57:37.000 And it was very masculine, very direct.

00:57:40.000 And there is a template there, there is a blueprint there, and it is a hot gospel that does not pander, that says the politically incorrect but biblically correct stuff, and men will come for spiciness. 0.93

00:57:53.000 And that's what the gospel is.

00:57:54.000 In fact, one of the biggest misconceptions, not just in the church, but in our society, is that love means approval.

00:58:04.000 Love does not mean approval!

00:58:06.000 Parents, you know this!

00:58:07.000 If you approve of everything your 13-year-old wants to do, are you loving?

00:58:12.000 No, you're unloving.

00:58:14.000 You're enabling evil if you approve of everything somebody wants to do.

00:58:19.000 That's why so many churches have gone off the rails, with men especially, because they think, oh, we're just going to approve of everyone, we're just going to love everyone, when men go, no, that's wrong!

00:58:29.000 We can't allow that.

00:58:30.000 We need to stand against that.

00:58:32.000 So smart.

00:58:32.000 And Jesus said this.

00:58:34.000 Don't think I came to bring peace.

00:58:36.000 I came to bring a sword.

00:58:37.000 This is going to divide mother and daughter, father and son. 0.72

00:58:40.000 How often have you heard those passages talked about?

00:58:42.000 In fact, I got a text 10 minutes before I was going on last night from somebody in my extended family that said, holy blank, Frank, I can't believe you're doing this.

00:58:56.000 You're on the wrong side of history.

00:59:00.000 Because I'm at an event with President Trump.

00:59:05.000 And guess what?

00:59:07.000 I don't care what she said.

00:59:08.000 How'd I know it was a woman? 0.99

00:59:12.000 I had no idea!

00:59:15.000 Because if we're gonna be divided over Jesus, I'm fine with that. 0.53

00:59:21.000 You should be following Jesus! 0.68

00:59:23.000 I gotta say one other thing about this, Charles.

00:59:28.000 I learned this from my mentor who said this.

00:59:30.000 He said, in nearly all cases, fraternity will overcome theology.

00:59:36.000 What did he mean by that?

00:59:37.000 He meant That, I'll give you an example, if some child comes out as trans or gay, what's probably more likely to happen is the parent is going to throw God under the bus and side with whatever the child wants out of love and approval.

00:59:55.000 When in fact that child needs the approach we mentioned earlier.

00:59:59.000 Love does not mean approval.

01:00:01.000 You've got to make sure that your number one priority is God.

01:00:05.000 Not what the culture wants.

01:00:07.000 Not what your spouse wants.

01:00:09.000 Not what your kids want.

01:00:10.000 Not what CNN wants.

01:00:13.000 Not even what Donald Trump wants.

01:00:16.000 What he wants.

01:00:19.000 And to close that out, as we have the connectals, is that men will be more likely to go to a turning point or a Trump rally because there's direct no's we won't put up with, and these are rules that they won't get at church.

01:00:34.000 At church, it's a lot of acceptance and love and compassion.

01:00:37.000 At Trump, I was like, no, we're going to deport people.

01:00:39.000 And that speaks to a masculine energy of order.

01:00:43.000 They see chaos in society, and they want order.

01:00:47.000 They go to church, and they see a welcoming and a platforming of the chaos.

01:00:52.000 And they say, I work too hard.

01:00:54.000 I'm a plumber.

01:00:55.000 I'm working, you know, 60 hours a week.

01:00:57.000 I don't need to go hear from some guy in skinny jeans tell me that I need to go give more money for his coffee bar.

01:01:03.000 Give it up for Frank Kurek, everybody.

01:01:06.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

01:01:08.000 Email us as always freedom at charliekirk.com.

01:01:10.000 Thanks so much for listening and God bless.

The Charlie Kirk Show - July 30, 2024

Instead of Hurting the Body, Heal the Spirit: My Conversation with Frank Turek at the Believers Summit

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