The Charlie Kirk Show - Is the Pope Catholic? with Dr. Taylor Marshall and Harmeet Dillion

00:00:00.000 Hey everybody, Tan Charlie Kirk Show.

00:00:01.000 Dr. Taylor Marshall joins us, and so does Harmeet Dylan.

00:00:04.000 We talk about the Pope.

00:00:05.000 We talk about the California GOP and more.

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00:00:30.000 Here we go.

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00:01:16.000 Joining us now is an excellent guest, Dr. Taylor Marshall, who is the most popular Catholic YouTuber and has a lot to say about what is happening with the Pope.

00:01:28.000 Dr. Marshall, thank you for taking the time.

00:01:30.000 I always want to make sure I get these facts right because sometimes there could be translation issues for what the Pope says.

00:01:36.000 So let's just, outside of all the media fervor, all the rancor, what exactly was the Pope's position and/or statement yesterday when it came to blessing same-sex civil unions?

00:01:49.000 Well, there's been a growing debate, and it's really reached.

00:01:54.000 I mean, basically, you have five cardinals of the Catholic Church who have written five requests asking the Pope to clarify his position on five key issues.

00:02:07.000 One of those issues is the blessing of same-sex unions by clergy, by priests.

00:02:13.000 Pope Francis has already said that you cannot have gay matrimony, marriage in the church because that's between a man and a woman. 1.00

00:02:21.000 So theologians have said, okay, well, if we can't have a gay marriage in the church, what if we have a same-sex blessing in the church?

00:02:31.000 And this is a big debate coming into a Synod of Synodality here in October.

00:02:36.000 And the Pope has been very careful about it, but it seems very clear by whom he's appointed and the people he's listening to that he is starting to pave the way for there to be these same-sex blessings, not same-sex marriages.

00:02:51.000 And of course, this is creating a huge scandal amongst the over 1 billion Catholics on planet Earth.

00:02:57.000 So I'm not Catholic, but I have great respect for Catholics.

00:03:00.000 And something that I've always admired about the Catholic Church, especially in recent years, is some of the strongest social conservatives are Catholic.

00:03:08.000 And there is this kind of promise of dogma that doesn't change, right?

00:03:12.000 That we're going to protect the family no matter how much the culture tries to make us convinced.

00:03:17.000 We're going to protect life.

00:03:19.000 We're not going to go along with the trans mafia. 1.00

00:03:21.000 And honestly, some of the most articulate people in public life talking about the family are yourself, Matt Walsh, Michael Knowles, right?

00:03:30.000 All practicing faithful Catholics.

00:03:32.000 So this is an issue that I see on multiple levels.

00:03:35.000 Let's take a step back, Dr. Marshall.

00:03:38.000 Remind us of some of the other troubling statements, not the internet misinterpretations that this Pope has made that is starting to pave the way to question and weaken Catholic dogma.

00:03:53.000 Yes, I mean, one of the key issues that the cardinals are objecting to is they're asking the pope, can doctrine change?

00:04:02.000 As you know, the Catholic Church for 2,000 years says that doctrine can't change.

00:04:07.000 Jesus gave us what's called the deposit of faith.

00:04:09.000 He gave it to the 12 apostles, and they pass it down over time.

00:04:12.000 It's codified in sacred scripture and in sacred tradition, and it can't change.

00:04:16.000 But the Jesuits, beginning in the 1950s, and Pope Francis is a Jesuit, beginning in the 1950s, they started saying, well, you know, we can evolve doctrine.

00:04:25.000 We can evolve dogma.

00:04:27.000 We live in an enlightened world.

00:04:29.000 You know, we're not medieval.

00:04:30.000 We're not ancient Romans.

00:04:32.000 We're enlightened men.

00:04:33.000 So let's reassess everything.

00:04:36.000 And part of that was the Second Vatican Council, which happened in the 1960s.

00:04:39.000 They changed the liturgy.

00:04:40.000 But you're right, Charlie.

00:04:42.000 It is the fundamental Catholic belief that we do not change.

00:04:47.000 And, you know, Protestants, they don't recognize matrimony as one of the seven sacraments.

00:04:52.000 We in the Eastern Orthodox.

00:04:53.000 That is correct.

00:04:54.000 We in the Eastern Orthodox say matrimony is one of the seven sacraments, baptism, confirmation, Eucharist.

00:05:00.000 Matrimony is in there.

00:05:01.000 So to come in and to start to tinker with that and to say we're going to have two men or two women or why not have three or four, it's either Adam and Eve, man and woman, Christ in the church, or it's not.

00:05:15.000 And these Jesuit theologians have been tinkering with this and saying, well, love is love and God is love.

00:05:23.000 So why can't we bless love?

00:05:24.000 And the problem is, is it simulates matrimony, a man and a woman coming together in the image of Christ in the church.

00:05:33.000 And it's gravely scandalous and it's confusing.

00:05:36.000 And part of the problem is Pope Francis has recently hired this new archbishop from Argentina, who is a Jesuit and who is, he wrote a book called Heal Me With Your Mouth.

00:05:46.000 It's scandalous.

00:05:47.000 It's horrible.

00:05:48.000 And this theologian has been appointed by Pope Francis to re-haul, allegedly, some of these 2,000, going back even into the Old Testament, these over 2,000-year teachings from Almighty God in the Bible.

00:06:07.000 And people are rightly upset.

00:06:09.000 And now you're seeing in the church cardinals, bishops, priests, and lay people saying, enough is enough.

00:06:17.000 Quit trying to change our faith.

00:06:19.000 Leave it alone.

00:06:20.000 Yeah.

00:06:20.000 And this has been a long looming battle and war that is now bubbling up at the top levels.

00:06:27.000 And Pope Francis, coming from a Jesuit, you could even say a more Paulo Fieri liberation theology type worldview.

00:06:38.000 I'm not a Catholic, so I could speak freely.

00:06:40.000 He feels like an infiltrator that is LARPing as a pope.

00:06:45.000 And I know that might consider be heresy in your circles.

00:06:47.000 I don't care because compare him to John Paul, who was so strong against Marxism, in favor of the family, all these things.

00:06:55.000 I think the world is a much better place with a pope that is not trying to bring Marxism into the largest family of Christians that we know on the planet.

00:07:06.000 I think that's a good thing for humanity.

00:07:08.000 So build this out, though.

00:07:11.000 Would you agree at least in premise that Pope Francis is introducing, I would call them unclean spirits or even heretical ideas that are rooted in Marxism, critical theory, Paulo Fieri?

00:07:24.000 Talk about that.

00:07:25.000 Yeah, I mean, I wrote a book in 2019 called Infiltration, and it tracks this 200-year trajectory of infiltrating the Catholic Church.

00:07:36.000 It also has to do with the deep state of, you know, we can't beat the church from the outside because that just produces martyrs.

00:07:41.000 Let's just go and infiltrate, join the seminaries, join the religious orders and work our way up the hierarchy.

00:07:47.000 And that's precisely what they have done, especially since the 1950s and the 1960s.

00:07:52.000 And you mentioned heresies, you mentioned evil spirits.

00:07:55.000 I mean, just a few years back, Pope Francis brought this idol from South America called the Pachamama.

00:08:03.000 And he brought it into the church.

00:08:05.000 He even placed it in St. Peter's Basilica in the Vatican in front of the altar, which is over the tomb of Saint Peter, the apostle.

00:08:14.000 This was gravely scandalous to the entire world because, as you know, basic teaching, both in the Old Testament and the New Testament, is thou shalt have no other gods before me.

00:08:25.000 I mean, it is commandment number one, Charlie.

00:08:27.000 Like, this is not even a debate.

00:08:30.000 And the fact that he would try to enculturate, that's what they do.

00:08:33.000 They, in the name of enculturation, let's bring in this idol, this totem, and bring it into the church.

00:08:39.000 And somehow that will convince non-Christians in South America to somehow become Christian. 0.92

00:08:45.000 And this is completely foreign to the teaching of the Bible, where you see Christ telling the apostles, go into the nations, baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and teach them all that I have commanded you.

00:08:56.000 That includes the Ten Commandments.

00:08:58.000 That includes thou shalt have no other gods before me.

00:09:01.000 And like you said, Charlie, there's a communistic element with liberation theology.

00:09:06.000 That's sort of the theological version of socialism.

00:09:09.000 There is this idolatry element.

00:09:11.000 And now there is the tinkering with sacraments and the tinkering with holy matrimony and what it means to be a man and a woman.

00:09:19.000 And ultimately, what is human sexuality?

00:09:23.000 And again, I cannot express more to your audience what a huge scandal this is, not only for Catholics like myself, or you had mentioned, you know, Michael Knowles or, you know, Walsh.

00:09:36.000 Think about the third world.

00:09:38.000 Think about the Asian Catholics, the African Catholics, which is the fastest group.

00:09:42.000 So it's interesting.

00:09:42.000 It's a very interesting area for Catholics in Africa.

00:09:44.000 Yeah, that's right.

00:09:45.000 Absolutely.

00:09:45.000 And it's interesting: the five cardinals that have objected to this: one is American, one is Mexican, one is German, one is African, one is Chinese.

00:09:55.000 So you're hitting all the Australia's not in there.

00:09:58.000 Cardinal Pell died, sadly.

00:09:59.000 But I mean, all the major continents, you have the most popular Asian cardinal, Cardinal Zen, protesting.

00:10:05.000 You have the most popular African cardinal, Cardinal Sarah.

00:10:09.000 You've got, I mean, this is becoming a global movement.

00:10:12.000 And I believe that if Francis tries to move forward on this, you will see formal schism happening.

00:10:19.000 What is that?

00:10:20.000 So, I mean, you mean, you mean, like, can you impeach a pope?

00:10:23.000 Like, I mean, I'm sorry for like the lack of understanding of like Vatican checks and balances, but what does that mean?

00:10:30.000 So it's Catholic teaching that the Pope has to be Catholic.

00:10:32.000 I mean, that should be pretty obvious to most people.

00:10:35.000 Just like to be president, you have to be a United States citizen.

00:10:38.000 That's basic.

00:10:39.000 So this has never happened in the history of the church, but theologians like St. Robert Bellerman and others, Cardinal Henry Newman, they talked about how if a pope were to defect from the faith and become a manifest heretic, or just say, I believe in Buddha now, or I'm following Muhammad, that by ceasing to be Catholic, they would cease to be the Pope.

00:11:03.000 Now, the mechanisms for discerning that and executing that have never been done.

00:11:07.000 And that's part of the controversy right now.

00:11:09.000 But more and more people, I mean, recently there was a very prominent Catholic priest, Father James Altman, who came out and said Francis isn't the Pope to the scandal of many people.

00:11:20.000 You have Bishop Strickland, who's a great hero of the faith in Tyler, Texas, down the street from me.

00:11:25.000 He's under investigation because he went out and protested the trans thing that happened at the LA Dodgers over the summer and has also been critical of some of these maneuverings of Pope Francis.

00:11:35.000 So you're starting to, there's kind of been an underground division, and now the cracks in the plaster, cracks in the sheetrock are starting to manifest, and this could break open.

00:11:47.000 And I'm curious, I understand enough to be dangerous, you know, how that would work.

00:11:52.000 And then if would that person, is that person actually the Holy Father in Catholicism if they're not Catholic?

00:11:58.000 And I'm really upset because Pope Francis took away one of my favorite jokes where someone says, you know, Charlie, are you hungry?

00:12:04.000 And I say, is the Pope Catholic?

00:12:06.000 And now I can't say that because he's obviously not Catholic, right?

00:12:09.000 So he took away one of my favorite jokes because I mean, I'm just looking as an outsider.

00:12:14.000 Like he doesn't, at least in my personal understanding of what he's been saying, he doesn't espouse like basic teaching of the church.

00:12:22.000 He seems far more interested in kind of going with the winds of social change and the narratives of the day, giving these long, I think you would call them encyclicals on climate change.

00:12:32.000 It's like, what are you talking about?

00:12:36.000 Hey, everybody, Charlie Kirk here.

00:12:38.000 Do you get the feeling that the unthinkable is going to happen soon?

00:12:40.000 Well, I do.

00:12:41.000 Between the distractions and the smokescreens and the media, we probably might not even see it coming.

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00:13:40.000 So it's an unfair question, but I have to ask it, which is a hypothetical.

00:13:46.000 What would it take for you or your fellow Catholic brethren to say, we're going to do something serious and we no longer believe the Pope is the Holy Father?

00:13:58.000 I know that's a hypothetical, but what is the line?

00:14:01.000 Has that been discussed in Catholic intellectual circles?

00:14:04.000 This is probably discussed at coffee after Mass in so many different places for the past several years.

00:14:11.000 When I go around, people ask me this question constantly.

00:14:13.000 I get asked almost daily.

00:14:15.000 What if he's not the Pope?

00:14:17.000 And if he's not, what do we do?

00:14:18.000 And I think the layman's answer to that is we have a canonical structure here.

00:14:25.000 And so I think just as if, you know, you believed O.J. Simpson murdered someone, you can't create your own vigilante justice system.

00:14:34.000 So there is this patience of waiting it out and figuring out.

00:14:38.000 And of course, if Francis were to go forward with gay marriages or women's ordination or to dogmatize liberation theology and say we're all communists now, I think that would just strengthen the resistance movement for people to honestly assess and call together the cardinals of the Catholic Church.

00:14:56.000 That is, I think, most theologians and intellectuals think the cardinals of the Catholic Church would first warn and admonish the Pope, which I think has just happened over the past week, honestly.

00:15:05.000 And then if there weren't repentance or clarification, then they would begin to ask the questions, well, are you a heretic?

00:15:11.000 Yes, you are.

00:15:12.000 That means you're not the Pope.

00:15:13.000 It's time to elect another one.

00:15:15.000 And that seems to be the process that is lined out by ancient theologians and St. Robert Bellarman, who's kind of the expert on the papacy.

00:15:24.000 That would be the direction to go.

00:15:25.000 I don't think we could all just fragment into, you know, 10,000 different denominations of what we think Catholicism is.

00:15:32.000 There would have to be a patience and there would have to be a canonical process, a trial, and then, of course, the election of a new pope.

00:15:39.000 And of course, all of this could be averted if Pope Francis died tomorrow or something like that.

00:15:44.000 Then, of course, we would be on to the process of having a new pope, and all this would be, of course, held for review.

00:15:52.000 I mean, there's over 2,000 years of church history.

00:15:55.000 Has there ever been an instance where a pope has been removed?

00:15:58.000 There have been popes who have resigned.

00:16:00.000 Actually, the pope before Francis, Pope Ben 16th, he was a privilege.

00:16:03.000 That was the first time in like a thousand years or something, right?

00:16:06.000 It's very rare.

00:16:06.000 It was.

00:16:07.000 The pope before that was Pope Celestine.

00:16:10.000 There was a case in which the Byzantine emperor of Constantinople kidnapped a pope and was placed in prison.

00:16:16.000 He ended up dying in prison.

00:16:18.000 But there's never been a case where the cardinals of the church come together and go through a process that would look like a deposition.

00:16:26.000 That has never happened.

00:16:28.000 So that would, and there are some prophecies and things that have been discussed in the church of a bad pope or of something like that.

00:16:35.000 There have been the case of what's called anti-popes.

00:16:37.000 These are men who set themselves up as popes in competition to real pope.

00:16:41.000 But this would be the first time where you don't have a pope and an anti-pope fighting each other.

00:16:45.000 You just have one guy who is perhaps under investigation and some form of a deposition.

00:16:50.000 So we are in a unique situation.

00:16:53.000 And no one really has a clear, clear way forward.

00:16:53.000 Yes.

00:16:57.000 But I think that the fact that you have five cardinals from five different continents representing the faithful all over the world who are sending what's called dubia, which is Latin for doubtful questions, like, hey, we got some doubts on what you're teaching here.

00:17:10.000 Can you clarify this?

00:17:12.000 They did that once this summer, and then they weren't satisfied with the answers.

00:17:15.000 And they went back to Pope Francis and said, here are the five questions again, and we would like you to answer with the word yes or no.

00:17:22.000 No paragraphs and no sentences.

00:17:24.000 Let us know, is this what you mean or not?

00:17:26.000 Yes or no?

00:17:27.000 And so it's pretty serious.

00:17:30.000 And I don't know if he was expecting this to happen, but there is definitely a strong pushback in 2023.

00:17:37.000 Really quick, Dr. Marshall, you're going to have to answer this question.

00:17:39.000 Somebody says, Charlie, I disagree with the guest.

00:17:42.000 The Pope is infallible in all matters of church doctrine.

00:17:45.000 We can't question that.

00:17:45.000 How would you respond to that?

00:17:47.000 Well, in 1870, we had a council called the First Vatican Council, and it said the Pope is only infallible in faith and morals when he speaks ex cathrita.

00:17:56.000 And ex Catharida is a fancy Latin term.

00:17:58.000 It means when he speaks dogmatically and authority from the chair, from the seat.

00:18:03.000 And it's very clear that he has to pronounce that he is speaking ex catharida.

00:18:07.000 So Francis has never spoken ex Catharida.

00:18:09.000 I don't know if he plans to.

00:18:10.000 So the infallibility of the Pope is limited.

00:18:13.000 It's only happened under a dozen times in church history.

00:18:17.000 So Francis hasn't done that.

00:18:19.000 And so those who would say, well, the Pope is always infallible on the weather and soccer games and whatever, that's just simply not Catholic teaching.

00:18:26.000 And that was clarified in 1870 at the first Vatican Council.

00:18:30.000 Dr. Taylor Marshall, excellent.

00:18:31.000 We'll have you on again.

00:18:32.000 I'm cheering for you guys that want the Catholic Church to stay rooted in scripture and teaching.

00:18:38.000 I say this as an evangelical Christian.

00:18:40.000 I am your number one supporter.

00:18:42.000 We are all Christians together, and we need to stand together against the Marxists and the apostates and these godless secularists destroying our culture and all that is good, true, and beautiful.

00:18:53.000 We're with you, Dr. Marshall.

00:18:54.000 Thank you so much.

00:18:55.000 Amen.

00:18:56.000 God bless.

00:18:56.000 Thank you.

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00:20:00.000 Joining us now is Harmeet Dylan, an amazing patriot, someone who I tried my best to get to run the RNC.

00:20:08.000 Fell short.

00:20:09.000 Harmeet, thank you for taking the time.

00:20:11.000 Give us some update about what happened at the California Republican Party meeting this last weekend.

00:20:18.000 Donald Trump spoke, it received a lot of attention, but there was a fair amount of fighting in the committees.

00:20:23.000 Tell us all about it.

00:20:25.000 Well, Charlie, thanks for having me.

00:20:27.000 Every four years, California GOP, like most of the parties around the country, adopts a platform in anticipation for the national convention next year.

00:20:36.000 And so we usually have a process where there are competing drafts that are submitted, and the platform committee, which consists of party leaders, including myself, get to vote on it.

00:20:46.000 This year around, like in prior years, there was an effort to really water down the platform on a couple of points: abortion, traditional marriage, as well as our commitment to Prop 13, California's landmark tax law that keeps taxes low on property taxes.

00:21:02.000 So we really had a concerted grassroots effort to challenge these watering down efforts on the platform.

00:21:09.000 And it was kind of a grassroots and base versus establishment fight.

00:21:15.000 And with a concerted effort, I'm proud to say that we defeated the effort to water down our platform and kept it conservative.

00:21:22.000 But the reason I think this is important is with a national platform, a similar effort goes on every four years.

00:21:28.000 And there are some folks who try and try their best to get onto the platform committee of their RNC convention just for purposes of watering it down, particularly on social issues.

00:21:39.000 And so I want to make sure that conservatives around the country are aware of this and start making their plans to keep the platform conservative.

00:21:47.000 So, yeah, talk about how they were trying to strip the social issues.

00:21:51.000 In particular, it looks like this article, California GOP rejects effort to strip abortion, same-sex marriage from the platform.

00:21:59.000 Who are the ones that were pushing this?

00:22:01.000 Well, it's so interesting.

00:22:02.000 So within the platform committee, which is up to 200 people, there's a drafting committee that is elected from the platform committee.

00:22:11.000 And there was a circulated slate that was called the leadership slate that was, you know, basically a lot of social liberals in the party.

00:22:23.000 Some of these folks are my friends.

00:22:24.000 We welcome their vote in the party.

00:22:26.000 But in terms of what the platform is, the platform is not for going door to door and knocking on doors to convince unconvinced voters.

00:22:34.000 It's for the base.

00:22:36.000 It's for the volunteers.

00:22:38.000 It's for our core conservative activists.

00:22:40.000 It's the heart.

00:22:41.000 It's the constitution of the party, if you will.

00:22:44.000 And so to water that down means that what you're trying to do is pander to the left or Democrat voters and not considering the expense to our base.

00:22:54.000 And so, you know, for me, both ideologically, I am a conservative and that's why I'm in the party.

00:23:00.000 I don't think that trying to make ourselves Democrat-like is in any way going to help us either win elections or be morally correct.

00:23:08.000 And so I did lead this effort with a couple of other conservatives in the party.

00:23:12.000 So even though the drafting committee produced this liberal draft, the grassroots of the party united.

00:23:19.000 We had people in the room.

00:23:21.000 We had a concerted effort.

00:23:22.000 And by the end of the day, the morning of the vote, we had the legislative leaders in California, as well as three members of Congress on our side.

00:23:29.000 And it really was a snowball effect.

00:23:31.000 And the other side just kind of retreated and lives to fight another day.

00:23:35.000 I can guarantee you this will be back in four years.

00:23:37.000 So Harmeet, I just want to talk about California in general.

00:23:37.000 Yeah.

00:23:40.000 It was notable 10 or 12 or 15 years ago, California rejected the redefinition of marriage by ballot referendum.

00:23:48.000 And then, like, 10 or 15 years later, you have the Republican Party trying to remove what the voters just a decade ago clearly said, you know, marriage should not be redefined.

00:23:59.000 I understand that public sentiment has changed on the issue, but I don't think it's actually changed nearly as much as they think it has.

00:24:06.000 I actually think, and by the way, polling is showing that social conservatism is coming back in popularity.

00:24:12.000 But Harmit, we're never going to win as Republicans if we think we can just continue to water down the essence of conservative truth and then somehow win as like Democrat light in Orange County.

00:24:26.000 Or can you talk about that? 0.53

00:24:28.000 Because not too long ago, California sent a message to the nation that marriage was one man and one woman.

00:24:35.000 Well, that was Proposition 8.

00:24:37.000 It was an epic fight.

00:24:39.000 And what the, you know, sort of call it the reform wing of the party is saying today is, oh, well, this is outdated because the Supreme Court has ruled that you can't discriminate on this basis.

00:24:50.000 And so, you know, look, the Supreme Court has ruled a lot of things over the years, including the Dred Scott decision, including, you know, some decisions that we look back on, Buck versus Bell, and we disagree with this isn't necessarily in the same vein, but let's just say the platform is going to take a long while and the base is going to take a long while to get there to eliminate that plague.

00:25:14.000 And if we ever did that, which I disagree with, it would definitely alienate a lot of our base and be suicidal.

00:25:20.000 But this isn't the first time, look, I've had to fight with leaders in California who just want to be more popular and say, oh, let's go for a carbon tax and let's water down our commitment to anti-tax and other issues.

00:25:32.000 Conservatives have to realize that there are forces in the party who, for their own reasons, want to use the party to validate their choices, their career goals, or what have you.

00:25:44.000 And this isn't the place for that.

00:25:45.000 So in prior conventions, I've seen the same battle take place on socially liberal issues at the national convention.

00:25:55.000 And there are people who campaign just to get on that, just to make a fuss.

00:25:58.000 It becomes a media spectacle and it is a distraction in our goal of winning elections.

00:26:04.000 And so at the end of the day, I don't know how I, as an activist, convince people to get out there on weekends and join me, do the work that like our friend Scott Pressler does to get out there and register voters.

00:26:15.000 If we're very similar to the Democrats, what's the point?

00:26:18.000 It's not motivating.

00:26:19.000 So I think we have to draw those sharp distinctions just tactically, as well as do what is morally right for our party and for our own values.

00:26:26.000 But also, you know, just from a tactical political standpoint, if you remove life from the party platform, who do they think is the base of so much of the activism?

00:26:34.000 Pro-lifers compose, especially out of the churches, so much of the energy.

00:26:39.000 Just look at Pastor Jack Hibbs, who has done so much to help retake Chino and try to flip state Senate seats.

00:26:47.000 California has some of these massive churches and to try to say we're going to remove a position that honestly 40% of the state of California believes.

00:26:57.000 I don't care what they say.

00:26:58.000 I mean, I'm not saying it's a majority, but that's a pretty significant remnant, which is your activist base.

00:27:03.000 It's perplexing to me.

00:27:04.000 Harmee, let's look at another place where there's a ton of infighting.

00:27:06.000 What is your take right now of what's happening in the U.S. House and how we should think about that?

00:27:11.000 Well, look, I think it's a question of promises made and promises kept.

00:27:15.000 There were a number of promises made by Speaker McCarthy to win his leadership position.

00:27:21.000 And some of those promises were made publicly.

00:27:23.000 And I think some of those promises were made behind closed doors.

00:27:27.000 And where you get into power making certain promises, and then certainly the people you made them to don't feel like they've been honored, then you get this kind of a discord.

00:27:37.000 But I would have to step back and say at the end of the day, you have to play a game of chess here, not checkers, and look a few moves ahead.

00:27:46.000 And where does this leave us as a party?

00:27:48.000 So that's the sordid reality of politics: a lot of things go wrong.

00:27:53.000 A lot of promises are made.

00:27:55.000 But you have to look at whether you're handing power and control to the other side before you make that move.

00:27:59.000 So I'm watching it with interest.

00:28:01.000 No promises were made to me.

00:28:03.000 I'm sympathetic to holding our leaders to the highest possible standard.

00:28:07.000 I'm more sympathetic to making sure that Democrats don't take control of this country.

00:28:12.000 People are suffering badly enough as it is.

00:28:14.000 Harmeet, talk about how do you see Republicans starting to improve their mentality for ballot chasing election integrity, especially in the key states that we need to win?

00:28:23.000 We are seeing that for sure.

00:28:25.000 Certainly around the country, people are adopting this rhetoric and this effort in the party.

00:28:29.000 There also are a lot of activists who are concerned because to be frank, even if we chase ballots and even if we get them all in, which is a very important part of the equation, the other part of the equation is counting them accurately.

00:28:42.000 Who counts them?

00:28:43.000 How are they counted?

00:28:44.000 And is there due process and the ability to challenge?

00:28:47.000 When you have a federal government that is literally imprisoning and threatening to imprison and indicting lawyers who simply ask questions in court, you are really gutting the integrity of that process.

00:28:57.000 So we as a party have to fight back against that and defend those lawyers.

00:29:02.000 We have to also in the front end get those ballots into the system.

00:29:04.000 And then in the middle of that process, we have to make sure that we have all our eyes and ears on counting.

00:29:10.000 If we're not allowed to count and get that commitment in advance, we have to go to court and make sure we have the right to count, that the count is accurate and that there's a remedy at the end of the day.

00:29:18.000 All of those steps are important.

00:29:19.000 Nothing can be left out of that equation.

00:29:22.000 Harmet Dillon, thanks so much for joining.

00:29:24.000 We are behind you 100%.

00:29:25.000 Thanks so much.

00:29:28.000 Hey, Charlie Kirk here.

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00:30:41.000 I was asked a question yesterday by a young man in a mask.

00:30:46.000 And he said, Charlie, is there anything good you could say about liberals?

00:30:50.000 He meant leftists, but I answered the question.

00:30:52.000 I said, you know what?

00:30:53.000 They fight way harder than we conservatives do.

00:30:56.000 We just do.

00:30:58.000 They're not afraid to use political power.

00:31:00.000 They want it way more than we do.

00:31:02.000 They play to win.

00:31:04.000 So while Donald Trump is facing 500 years in federal prison with Jack Smith, he's facing life imprisonment in Georgia, the documents case, and Alvin Bragg.

00:31:16.000 To add on top of it, they're trying to take all of his wealth that he built, that he earned.

00:31:22.000 Understand what is going on with this New York civil fraud trial.

00:31:25.000 This is the American dream on trial.

00:31:28.000 That's what this is.

00:31:30.000 This is way bigger than Trump.

00:31:33.000 This is the promise of earned success on trial. 0.99

00:31:39.000 Wall Street Journal writes, what a ridiculous headline. 0.52

00:31:44.000 Trump fumes as fraud trial starts new phase of legal peril. 0.83

00:31:48.000 Can someone tell me who he defrauded exactly?

00:31:52.000 They say that he reaped $250 million in ill-gotten gains.

00:31:57.000 Basically, this is the lesson, is that if you're rich and you run for office or use something they'll like, they can now use the power of the courts to just take your stuff away.

00:32:08.000 Just another example of how we are living in a third world country. 1.00

00:32:11.000 This is not a free country anymore.

00:32:13.000 Pains me to say that.

00:32:14.000 This is not a great country that does stuff like this.

00:32:18.000 And the judge who's doing this smiles for the cameras.

00:32:22.000 Look at this.

00:32:23.000 It's his big day.

00:32:25.000 Takes off his glasses.

00:32:26.000 Smile for the cameras, dude.

00:32:28.000 Yeah, you're a big deal.

00:32:30.000 This is him in 2015, essentially saying that if a jury doesn't do what he wants, he just overrules the jury.

00:32:39.000 Play cut 38.

00:32:40.000 Now, I'm going to say something controversial.

00:32:42.000 Even though I'm being taped, juries get it wrong a lot, but I've had situations where like, oh my heaven's sake, how could they have thought that?

00:32:51.000 I have a tool that I can deal with that.

00:32:53.000 It's called jury notwithstanding the verdict.

00:32:56.000 Judgment notwithstanding the verdict.

00:32:57.000 I can say there is no possible way that a reasonable jury would have reached that conclusion.

00:33:03.000 And all right, am I following the law or am I making law?

00:33:08.000 Okay, I'm following law.

00:33:10.000 I'm an impartial referee, but it's hard to factor out my own emotions.

00:33:17.000 I got a text message from a New York attorney this morning.

00:33:20.000 Let me read this to you.

00:33:21.000 Someone who's actually argued cases in front of him.

00:33:24.000 I argued a case in front of him a few years back.

00:33:28.000 In my case, he told me, I don't care about the facts.

00:33:30.000 I just care about what I think happened.

00:33:33.000 I, the lawyer, kept nailing the other side of specific statements, what the parties had done, how they committed themselves to the agreement, et cetera.

00:33:40.000 The judge kept saying he doesn't care.

00:33:43.000 The whole case was reliance on an oral agreement.

00:33:46.000 At the end of the case, after losing, approaching the bar, the judge says, you're an excellent attorney, but never represent a client like that again.

00:33:56.000 So basically, he decided he didn't like the client.

00:33:58.000 He just made a judgment and accorded the position without caring about the actual facts of the law.

00:34:03.000 This is a top-level attorney in New York, like top, top, top.

00:34:07.000 So this is who Trump is in front of.

00:34:09.000 While he has all this other stuff, and it's not enough.

00:34:12.000 By the way, this is never going to stop.

00:34:16.000 This is never going to stop unless Republicans start to use political power to go after Democrats.

00:34:26.000 There's not a single Republican AG going after any of their groups, SPLC, BLM, nothing.

00:34:33.000 They're going to try to gag Donald Trump to try to stop him from speaking out.

00:34:39.000 Meanwhile, where is the opposition party?

00:34:42.000 The opposition party is doing what many of you want them to do.

00:34:46.000 And who am I to say you're wrong?

00:34:47.000 You guys have been betrayed and lied to.

00:34:49.000 I'm just asking the question, is it a good idea?

00:34:50.000 That's all I'm asking.

00:34:51.000 I'm not even saying you're wrong.

00:34:53.000 So the House, we're going to be without a speaker.

00:34:55.000 That's basically a guarantee.

00:34:56.000 So that cake is baked.

00:34:58.000 The entire Republican Party statewide is just sitting on their hands waiting for the storm to pass.

00:35:04.000 You got Bannon that's going to go to federal prison soon.

00:35:06.000 O'Keefe that's being investigated.

00:35:08.000 You got Tucker off the air.

00:35:10.000 Yeah, not a good time for the opposition party as the revolution continues and our freedoms disappear.

00:35:18.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:35:20.000 Email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:35:23.000 Thank you so much for listening and God bless.

00:35:28.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk. com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - October 04, 2023

Is the Pope Catholic? with Dr. Taylor Marshall and Harmeet Dillion

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Summary

Transcript