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00:01:20.000We are monitoring the first day of the preliminary hearing in the State versus Tyler Robinson.
00:01:28.000And there was a lot of back and forth going on about exhibits.
00:01:32.000I saw some reports saying that, you know, they weren't going to show any of the evidence, but actually that was a motion or that was a move made by.
00:01:43.000The state is moving to show them all, but the defense has a concern about those being displayed or published, quote unquote, published before they've been admitted as evidence.
00:01:54.000So that's the back and forth going on there, which is interesting.
00:02:40.000I just reached out to him because there's very few people that can understand.
00:02:46.000The torment that Erica Kirk and Rob and Catherine Charlie's parents are experiencing right now, just having to be in the courtroom with Tyler Robinson.
00:02:59.000I can only imagine the agony that they are currently experiencing.
00:03:03.000So please pray for Erica, pray for Rob and Catherine, pray for the whole team, the larger team that's in Utah today.
00:03:13.000And it is true, Don Jr. is in the courtroom by Erica, Rob, and Catherine's side.
00:06:30.000And I know there's some controversy over assembling or disassembling, so we'll hold on that and not make any judgments until the evidence is presented in court.
00:06:40.000So that's about where we're at right now.
00:07:40.000One, from the prosecution perspective, they've been very meticulous.
00:07:44.000You know, anytime you put a witness on, especially a professional like a police officer, which my understanding is there's going to be four police officers to testify to probably 40 or 50 different exhibits.
00:07:58.000And you're going to go through their experience.
00:07:59.000You're going to go through, you know, where they were on that day.
00:08:04.000And then they're going to start to really, really narrow the focus about everything that they saw that is relative to the crime.
00:08:50.000Now, let me just say for everybody if your daughter or a friend takes a picture of your backyard, just because you didn't take the picture on that day, and maybe you weren't even in the country on the day that picture was taken, you can still authenticate a picture of your backyard as a fair and accurate depiction of your backyard.
00:09:11.000And that's all he was asking the officers to do.
00:09:13.000Frankly, I've had Google Earth images authenticated by police officers or by the owner of the wherever.
00:09:23.000So, defense is going to make this laborious.
00:09:27.000The thing about that is, if they do that in front of a jury, a jury will hate them because they are just dragging it on, just making it hard unnecessarily because all the objections are overruled and then the evidence comes anyway.
00:09:42.000So, we would just waste another 20 minutes because you guys wanted to jump up for some preservation of the record objection that was meaningless.
00:09:52.000Yeah, and so you think that this is just a preliminary trial tactic, then, Jay?
00:09:59.000I mean, it could be, you know, but typically you just wouldn't, you know, your prelim hearing tactic and your trial tactic, they're about the same thing.
00:10:09.000And if we're, you know, if history is any indicator, they've objected to everything.
00:10:15.000They've been a very litigious defense group.
00:10:18.000And so I don't know that they're not going to object to everything on the record, build a record, because they know.
00:10:25.000Here's the thing the reason you do that, the reason why you look scared is because you are scared because you know there's overwhelming evidence against your client.
00:10:35.000And the only way to save his life is to hope for an appeal, an appellate court somewhere that says, you know what, that judge shouldn't have overruled that.
00:10:44.000It should have been sustained and yada, yada.
00:10:47.000And therefore, you got to have a new trial.
00:10:50.000Well, okay, well, we're just going to take a plea deal now because it's 15 years from now and some of the witnesses are dead or.
00:10:57.000Or don't remember, it's just an old case.
00:11:08.000The evidence is overwhelming against Tyler Robinson, it's in the indictment, right?
00:11:15.000I mean, just the, but the evidence itself, and we haven't even heard from, you know, the lover and the parents from Tyler Robinson where admissions were likely made by Tyler Robinson.
00:11:35.000I mean, they've got a list, right, of exhibits that they're planning on, right?
00:11:43.000So we've got a drone image of UBU, photo of the screwdriver, daytime photo of sniper perch, photo of sniper perch, video of mother with children in crowd, written statement, video of shooting from behind the questioner, written statement, video of shooting from behind Charlie Kirk, written statement, video of shooting from behind the booth, written statement.
00:12:07.000Photo of the rifle in the bushes, photo of the rifle in the bushes, photo of rifle in box, medical examiner report, UVU surveillance, doorbell camera.
00:12:17.000And then they've got a recorded statement from Lance Twiggs.
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00:13:41.000You know, Jay, it begs the question because I saw some people mentioning this on social media.
00:13:48.000You know, other lawyers kind of chiming in.
00:13:49.000And I don't know if this is specific to Utah law, but there were some people that were sort of saying, I'm surprised they didn't waive the preliminary, the defense didn't waive the preliminary hearing.
00:14:32.000They know that the evidence is overwhelming.
00:14:35.000So why air it all this week when there's not even any rules of evidence, right?
00:14:40.000So anything that might be inadmissible is not inadmissible this week.
00:14:44.000And what's happening is the world is watching, people are hearing the evidence against Tyler Robinson.
00:14:50.000No longer will defense counsel be able to hide against the tinfoil hat crowd and hope that they can draw some of those jurors for the actual jury trial because there won't be any legs for the tinfoil hat crowd to stand on because it will be so overwhelming.
00:15:07.000The admissions, the ballistics reports, the fingerprints, the DNA, some of the other evidence that likely exists that hasn't even been commented on yet.
00:15:23.000I mean, that's not like, that's the other thing is that it's not like this is going to be sworn testimony from eyewitnesses where they said they saw a small dog one day and then on the stand they say they saw a puppy and they try to make reasonable doubt out of that.
00:15:42.000So, you know, the officers, when they're having these conversations with other people and they testify about those conversations, that would be hearsay at trial.
00:15:51.000So there's really no ability to impeach on that hearsay because it won't even be admissible at trial.
00:15:56.000You have to actually call the witness.
00:15:57.000So, again, I don't know that this defense team is the dream team.
00:16:03.000That's kind of the conclusion I'm reaching at the moment.
00:16:41.000With this defense team, it's possible.
00:16:44.000I mean, the prosecution really, if the judge allows things to move along, the prosecution really should be done today.
00:16:53.000Most of the stuff is just being entered, like the medical exam.
00:16:57.000I mean, they have to prove that Charlie Kirk did, in fact, Died and that he died from a gunshot wound, and that it was deemed a homicide by the ME.
00:17:07.000So, those I mean, those are all just sort of admitted pro forma.
00:17:12.000A lot of these exhibits will be admitted pro forma.
00:17:14.000So, they should be done today, maybe first thing in the morning.
00:17:19.000But this defense team, for some reason, they want to drag their client through and let the whole world see just how guilty he is.
00:17:31.000Maybe that's the only tactic that makes sense here is that they're trying to make Bois Deer so hard because everybody has seen such overwhelming evidence of Tyler Robinson's guilt.
00:17:43.000Well, so you say they could get it all done today.
00:17:45.000So, for example, the Lance Twiggs statement that they have that they can't cross examine, but are we going to hear the whole statement?
00:17:53.000Are they going to give a summary of the statement?
00:17:56.000Are they just going to state, show the video?
00:17:57.000We have this and, you know, we'll get into it.
00:18:01.000It's a video interview that they did with them.
00:18:02.000So I would presume, Jay, that they're going to show the whole thing.
00:18:50.000So, you think the tactics here then, and maybe I'm reading into what you said, Jay, is that they're going to make this laborious.
00:18:58.000They're going to make it as painful as possible.
00:19:02.000Maybe either just to keep pushing the psychology, maybe taint a jury pool.
00:19:10.000Do you think that there's a tactic here where they're trying to get the evidence out so that because the internet does what the internet does with this stuff and the tinfoil hot crowd, as you call them, are they banking on that, do you think?
00:19:24.000I mean, they could just be banking on breaking the will of the prosecution that they just don't have it in them, the energy to fight for the Kirk family, for Charlie Kirk.
00:19:35.000And that very well could be that they think that maybe they'll just give up and.
00:19:52.000That's the thing you got to remember from the defense perspective, the defense lawyer's perspective, everything they do is going to cause a loss, right?
00:20:00.000Their guy is going to be found guilty and likely sentenced to death.
00:20:05.000So if that's the case, then, I mean, what strategy isn't worth trying, right?
00:20:13.000I think that's a really interesting point.
00:20:16.000When you sort of like don't have the evidence on your side and there's not a whole lot of outs, you're just kind of throwing stuff at the wall to see if you could get the judge to do something that could trigger a trial or get it reversible on appeal.
00:20:33.000I find that like a really interesting psychology for the defense, to be honest.
00:20:36.000People keep speculating that the defense might be hoping on can we get a weirdo on the jury who's just going to.
00:20:46.000Who'd be open to thinking Israel did this, the Trump administration did this?
00:20:51.000I imagine it's basically malpractice for the lawyer to openly play to that and they don't want to end up getting disbarred.
00:20:58.000But would that be in the back of their heads that the longer we drag this out, the more crazy people there will be and that could improve our odds of a mistrial?
00:21:09.000The longer the crazies get to run around on the internet, then the more crazies there might be.
00:21:16.000The prosecution is going to have a team of people scrubbing social media, scrubbing chat rooms, everything they can get their hands on to be looking for anything as it relates to Charlie Kirk.
00:21:30.000And there are 12 people in the state of Utah that haven't formed an opinion about Tyler Robinson's guilt, but also don't subscribe to the tinfoil hat crowd, I guess, as I'm going to continue to call them.
00:21:44.000Because, you know, I mean, they can be fair minded, open minded.
00:21:48.000They have to be able to subscribe to the death penalty.
00:21:51.000That'll be difficult in the state of Utah as well.
00:21:54.000Very conservative, very religious state.
00:21:56.000But here in great state Alabama, you know, we do it on the regulars.
00:22:01.000And, you know, some people can get past it because justice is important.
00:22:07.000So, again, the defense counsel, they're going to try every single tactic.
00:22:11.000They're going to try to break the will of the prosecution.
00:24:48.000And they are really laying that all out, but this gets back to you want to make sure everything is entirely by the book as this goes through, precisely because it's so high profile, precisely because there are people who will seize on literally anything they possibly can to, we believe, help the person we believe is guilty escape.
00:25:21.000So he says, Yeah, I signed up for an overtime shift for this event.
00:25:27.000And the way that they have the exhibits so that they're not displayed publicly.
00:25:33.000I think this is an interesting clip to show, just to kind of go through the way that, you know, the step by step process that has to be followed here based on Judge Graff's instructions.
00:26:19.000If I could, Your Honor, bring up state's exhibit number two that was previously admitted.
00:26:26.000I would like to have Officer Bagley come down from the witness stand and point on that exhibit where, approximately where the screwdriver was located.
00:26:37.000So if you can describe where you saw that screwdriver, point to that.
00:26:41.000Yeah, so this is the Lossie building right here with the light gray.
00:26:44.000Here's the guardrail in the center of the picture with the red brick.
00:26:47.000Just over that, about 10, 15 feet in, about right there.
00:26:56.000I think that's just a good example of how we have to navigate these exhibits so that they're not published.
00:27:03.000Just a quick programming note for anybody watching on the stream.
00:27:08.000We have Jet Metcalf, Austin Metcalf's dad, just about to join us.
00:27:13.000And I know he's got some words of encouragement for Erica.
00:27:17.000You know, speaking of which, there's an interesting report here.
00:27:22.000I'll try and get the graphic for everybody here.
00:27:25.000I've confirmed that this is actually a reporter inside the courtroom.
00:27:32.000Here, I guess this is, let me get the name of this reporter.
00:27:36.000Senior national correspondent for News Nation, Brian Enton.
00:27:41.000If you could throw that graphic up when you get it, just like a screen grab of the tweet, but he said, seen from inside the Tyler Robinson courtroom, Erica Kirk was crying before the hearing started.
00:27:50.000Donald Trump Jr. is in the front row with his wife.
00:27:53.000Tyler Robinson was laughing with his attorney before the hearing started.
00:27:57.000Erica left during the description of the shooting.
00:28:02.000So, I mean, I just think it's like important just to kind of understand that this is.
00:28:08.000You know, there's a lot of noise, there's a lot of attention on this, there's a lot of you know, back and forth.
00:28:15.000I'm sure some of you have seen my uh, my Twitter back and forth with Candace or Blake's.
00:28:21.000All that's noise because actually, what is really important here is the fact that these are human beings that are dealing with this awful experience, and I just can't imagine um, being in that courtroom right now, and the fact that Erica has to do that and be in front of all those people for something she She's a victim here, and Rob and Catherine, Kirk, Charlie's parents as well.
00:28:50.000And we should note we've seen Erica has never seen a video of the shooting.
00:28:56.000She's never really listened closely to a description of it.
00:29:15.000And I believe we have our guest is just about ready, Jeff Metcalf.
00:29:21.000Again, I reached out to Jeff because there's very few people, especially in sort of the more recent days and weeks and months, that could relate to what Eric is going through and Rob and Catherine, of course, Charlie's parents, more than Jeff.
00:29:39.000And so Jeff Metcalf, Austin Metcalf's father, joins us now.
00:29:45.000Jeff, welcome to the show and thank you so much for making the time.
00:29:50.000I see you're wearing a beautiful shirt there, sir.
00:30:11.000And I'm sure Erica and Rob and Catherine, Charlie's parents, would love to hear from you too because.
00:30:17.000You've been through something terrible and tragic and awful, and you've experienced the crazy media attention and the social media of it all.
00:30:28.000And you were a victim because you lost your son, and you had to go through hell to get justice for him.
00:30:38.000We'd love to hear what you want to tell Erica, what you want to tell Rob and Catherine in this moment.
00:30:43.000Well, first, my condolences go out to them.
00:30:46.000There aren't really words that can make you feel better, but knowing that someone has gone through and understands maybe what you're feeling gives you a little bit more comfort when it comes from them.
00:31:06.000But I just tell them, you know, I know they're strong in their faith.
00:31:11.000And that's what's gotten me through so far for me.
00:31:14.000But sitting in that courtroom for the first time, Ever facing the person that's accused of murdering, you know, either your spouse or your child?
00:31:30.000It's a roller coaster ride while you sit there.
00:31:33.000And to be able to maintain and keep your thought process coherent is very challenging, at the least.
00:31:44.000There's a million different emotions that pull you a hundred different ways.
00:31:48.000Uh, you know, there's the human side of you that sits on your shoulder and whispers in your ear the things you really don't want to hear or shouldn't hear, and then there's the little guy on this side of your shoulder who whispers in your ear and tells you what you should do and what you shouldn't do and what you and who you try to be.
00:32:07.000Um, it goes back to an old Indian story about the young lad who asked the chief, you know, what's inside of us, and he said, Well, there's two wolves that live inside you, and one lives, you know, full of hate, anger, fear.
00:32:21.000And the other one is love, compassion, kindness.
00:32:26.000And the young Indian said, Well, which one wins?
00:32:30.000And he said, The ones you feed the most.
00:32:33.000So it's the same thing with emotions when you have, like, for forgiveness.
00:32:39.000For me, people, when, because this is what happened when Erica stood up there and said, She forgave him.
00:33:02.000So I don't carry hate, anger, revenge inside of me.
00:33:08.000You have to let that go and rely on your faith because it says, vengeance is mine, saith the Lord.
00:33:17.000So, I mean, you can go scriptural, but realistically, for your mental health, You really need to learn how to let that go so you don't carry it around so it won't eat you up like cancer.
00:33:30.000And that's the reason I was able to forgive so fast because I know what I needed to do for me as a Christian.
00:33:38.000It doesn't make me any more or better or less of a Christian because at this point, even my son cannot forgive him for what he did.
00:33:46.000And I told him, that's fine, you don't have to.
00:33:49.000But this is a personal choice for me and a personal choice with my faith.
00:33:54.000That this is the path that I choose to go.
00:33:57.000Now, I don't forgive this person for his actions.
00:34:01.000I mean, I have to forgive him and hope to God that he can repent and find Jesus Christ as a savior.
00:34:06.000Doesn't take the fact away that he murdered my son.
00:34:09.000Doesn't take the fact away I'm still human and have emotions.
00:35:23.000But it does reshape you, it does break you down, and it does, you become someone different because you're never going to be the person you were before.
00:35:49.000What I chose to do is one of the things I've learned is instead of learning to learn how to live without him, I'm going to live for him.
00:35:59.000So I'm going to keep his name out there.
00:36:03.000I'm going to do, you know, I'll probably form a 501c3 and get some nonprofit and organization, you know, all in for the Austin Metcalf Foundation or something, because I want to keep it going.
00:36:21.000Keep the message alive because I think nowadays in today's society, the youth has no impulse control, de escalation skills, conflict resolution skills.
00:36:34.000I think some of these things need to be taught early on, even in school.
00:37:53.000Jeff, that's what I hear you saying you want to take this tragedy and turn it into purpose.
00:38:01.000And we talked about speaking on campuses or at schools or whatever.
00:38:05.000We'd love to help you do that because I do think you have a really important message to spread and to live with that purpose, live for Austin.
00:38:14.000I find so much of what you were just saying, Blake and I lost somebody too, but not on the level of you or Erica or Rob and Catherine.
00:38:25.000But I felt like I related to it a lot as well because you do kind of realize that the life you had before all this happened will never be the same.
00:39:51.000I'm a vessel that God chooses to use however He sees fit.
00:39:57.000I don't always agree or like it, but I trust Him and He's putting things in front of me that I need to open my eyes and be aware of, just as this interview today.
00:40:13.000I mean, I've always been a huge Turning Point USA fan, I was a huge Charlie Kirk fan.
00:40:18.000Just to be able to be on the show and talk and understand, you know.
00:40:24.000Now, I'm not going to say that my loss is the same as Erica's loss because it's not.
00:40:29.000Hers was a spouse, mine was a child, but that doesn't take away from her loss or my loss at all because loss affects all of us differently, just like grief affects all of us differently.
00:40:40.000And there's no timeline, there's no instruction book, there's no getting over it.
00:42:00.000And there are five phases, and they can raise their head at any time.
00:42:04.000And I can be fine for a week, and then a tsunami of emotion will hit me just instantly.
00:42:11.000It could be a trigger of a favorite song, or a favorite place, or a favorite food, or just any little memory that can be triggered will force you right back into that flow of emotions.
00:45:18.000That's in the Bible that yes, I choose to incorporate into my life.
00:45:23.000Charlie chose to incorporate into his life.
00:45:26.000Now, I'm not saying other religions are bad or anything.
00:45:29.000It's just a personal belief and it's who I want to be and it's who I want to reach.
00:45:33.000And anyone who has the same belief as me that I can reach out to, maybe I can help them or help someone in a situation where I can somehow be helpful, inspirational, guiding.
00:45:46.000I don't want to say knowledge, but maybe that, you know, share knowledge.
00:45:51.000Just so they maybe, if I can reach just one person, it's a success.
00:45:57.000But obviously, Charlie reached millions of people.
00:46:01.000If I could do just a quarter of what he ever did, I would be very happy.
00:46:06.000But, you know, I feel parallels along with him is just wanting to be out there, spread the word, you know, and have a meaningful conversation without insults and hate and threats of violence and things like that.
00:46:22.000Jeff, all of this has been tremendous, incredible.
00:46:25.000I want to speak to one specific parallel that exists between you and Erica, which, besides that, you've lost a loved one, besides that, it's a very high profile case, but that it's one that unfortunately we see hateful, gleeful things posted online.
00:46:46.000We talked about what a lot of supporters of your son's killer were saying online, posting videos, TikTok, and all of that.
00:47:10.000That's a threat against Erica at that women's leadership event.
00:47:12.000And on the flip side of this, also, you don't have this as much, but the conspiracy theories about it where they say, actually, Erica's not a grieving widow.
00:48:35.000They don't contribute to society in an effective way.
00:48:39.000All they want to do is obviously they don't have enough life of their own, but they want to get involved in yours and just spew hate based on maybe the color of your skin.
00:49:03.000Because that's the same way I look at people.
00:49:05.000I don't judge you by color, I judge you by character.
00:49:09.000And, you know, and for those who maybe are younger than me or didn't know who said this, Martin Luther King is the man who made that quote famous.
00:49:19.000And so, like, again, this isn't a race thing, this is a human being thing.
00:49:26.000Erica's husband was murdered, my son was murdered.
00:49:38.000To accept the fact is hard enough because it does seem surreal the first few days it's going on, like you're in a dream and it's not really happening, but it really is.
00:49:50.000And you have to figure out how you're going to navigate this.
00:49:54.000One, get some professional help, find a counselor, find a grief group, something.
00:51:27.000And it will carry my son's name on, which is the number one thing that I really want to do carry his name on.
00:51:36.000We already have a scholarship set up at the high school to give an athlete a scholarship, the Austin Metcalf Scholarship Board, every year.
00:51:47.000There's other charities I'd like to be involved in also.
00:51:51.000And I would love to speak and go around and just be able to do that with people.
00:51:58.000And just spread my story and hopefully give people some sort of inspiration or some sort of nugget they can carry on and just improve their life with.
00:52:11.000Because we're all here for a short period of time.
00:52:14.000Tomorrow's never promised, as I'm very aware of that now.
00:54:35.000The stuff that's going on online, the memes, the pictures, the vile comments look, they come from the far right too with pictures of Carmelo saying very vile things that are going to happen to him in prison.
00:58:36.000You break the law, there are consequences.
00:58:38.000I told my sons this all the time growing up you are free in life to make any decisions you want, but you are not free from the consequences.
00:59:16.000Jeff, I really appreciate you giving us so much of your time today.
00:59:20.000And I know God's got big plans for what you're going to do next in the Purpose you're going to live with.
00:59:28.000And honestly, I'm just, I'm really encouraged listening to you because I believe what you said, Erica needs to hear and Rob and Catherine need to hear.
00:59:37.000And there's just very few people that could relate to what they're going through right now.