The Charlie Kirk Show - Joe Biden, John Roberts, and America UNHINGED with Eric Metaxas

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00:00:08.000 Hey, everybody.

00:00:09.000 Been traveling like crazy.

00:00:10.000 I flew to DC just to be able to talk to nine doctors, as you heard in our sister episode.

00:00:15.000 And I also snuck a short interview with Eric Metaxas, the great Eric Metaxas, who is a senior fellow at the Falkirk Center for Faith and Liberty at the only school I put my name behind at Liberty University.

00:00:28.000 Enjoy this in-depth interview where we talk about Christianity, the Supreme Court, John Roberts, and so much more.

00:00:34.000 Email us your questions, freedom at charliekirk.com, freedom at charliekirk.com.

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00:00:48.000 Buckle up, everybody.

00:00:49.000 Here we go.

00:00:51.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:52.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campuses.

00:00:54.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

00:00:58.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:01:01.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:01:02.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:01:03.000 His spirit, his love of this country.

00:01:05.000 He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created.

00:01:10.000 Turning point USA.

00:01:12.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

00:01:20.000 That's why we are here.

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00:02:02.000 There's so much going on.

00:02:03.000 I thought when things get this crazy in America, I don't know about you, but I'd love to hear from Charlie Kirk.

00:02:09.000 Charlie is with the Liberty University Falkirk Center.

00:02:16.000 And actually, so am I.

00:02:17.000 And here's Charlie Kirk.

00:02:19.000 Charlie, welcome to the program.

00:02:20.000 Great to be back, Eric.

00:02:21.000 God bless you.

00:02:22.000 We're going to have some fun.

00:02:23.000 And God bless you.

00:02:24.000 Listen, over the weekend, I got a package in the mail from Ryan Helfenbein, who runs the Falkirk Center's Liberty Center.

00:02:35.000 And look what he sent me.

00:02:36.000 I don't know if anybody, if you're watching on video, I'm holding up a handsome Liberty University mug.

00:02:43.000 It's got a lovely cork base.

00:02:46.000 I demand that in most of my mugs.

00:02:48.000 And Charlie and Ryan, they took the trouble to get me that.

00:02:52.000 But anyway, look, you and I, we have so much to talk about.

00:02:55.000 I'll just shut up as quickly as possible and ask you, my friend, the news over the weekend has continued to be troubling and more than troubling.

00:03:06.000 So what is your take?

00:03:08.000 Well, you know, especially on Friday, great to be here, Eric.

00:03:12.000 We saw the Supreme Court come with a very puzzling decision.

00:03:16.000 The Bush appointee, John Roberts, has really been playing into his caricature lately of siding with the most radical elements of the United States Supreme Court.

00:03:26.000 And for those people that don't know, on Friday evening, you know, it's funny how they always do this on Friday evening to try to quell the rebellion of anyone that actually might be paying attention.

00:03:35.000 Calvary Chapel in Las Vegas sued asking why can casinos and restaurants have 50 or more people, but churches cannot.

00:03:45.000 Pretty reasonable complaint.

00:03:48.000 The Supreme Court then decided 5-4 with Roberts siding with Breyer, Kagan, Sodomayor, and Ginsburg, saying that, you know what, it's okay to discriminate against churches, even though casinos and restaurants, marijuana dispensaries, and strip clubs can have 50 or more people.

00:04:05.000 Gorsuch had his.

00:04:07.000 Hang on. 0.98

00:04:07.000 Now, you say discriminate against churches, and you're speaking on some level hyperbolically, even though I agree with what you just said. 0.98

00:04:16.000 In other words, the point is they don't seem to explain how it is not discrimination.

00:04:23.000 You're saying that this many people can go into these establishments and gamble and so on and so forth, but churches know only 50 people.

00:04:31.000 And this is Nevada.

00:04:32.000 We could talk about other states, and I'd like to do this in a minute.

00:04:34.000 But how is it possible that somebody like Roberts, who's not a anti-constitutionalist, how do you suppose he rationalizes this in his mind?

00:04:47.000 That's, I guess, my question.

00:04:49.000 What is his, what is he doing legally and in his mind that he thinks it's correct?

00:04:55.000 So I'll answer that.

00:04:56.000 Then I'll tell you how Gorsuch dissented, which was brilliant.

00:04:58.000 There we go.

00:04:59.000 So Roberts, at least in my interpretation of the opinion, he says church is different because people are more packed together.

00:05:07.000 It's a gathering for a couple hours.

00:05:09.000 And it wasn't just church, a synagogue, mosque.

00:05:12.000 He said this is a mass gathering protocol and that the state of Nevada does have the ability to do that.

00:05:18.000 I think it's nonsense.

00:05:19.000 I mean, this idea that you're not going to get close together with people when you're going to go to a marijuana dispensary or to a restaurant or to a casino is just pretty, pretty outrageous.

00:05:30.000 Now, Gorsuch dissented from where Roberts would have his opinion.

00:05:34.000 And Gorsuch said, this is not even a question.

00:05:37.000 This is the most simple case that we have seen recently.

00:05:40.000 I mean, I'm paraphrasing, but this is basically the language that he used.

00:05:44.000 And he said that the First Amendment shouldn't apply at Caesar's Palace, but not at Calvary Chapel, Las Vegas.

00:05:49.000 It was a great final line in his dissenting opinion.

00:05:53.000 And Gorsuch went out of his way to also mention synagogues and mosques.

00:05:57.000 Now, Eric, what is really concerning for me is that the Constitution more and more seems kind of like a suggestion document to the United States Supreme Court, no longer the actual document that they have to defend and that they have to interpret.

00:06:10.000 Now it's just kind of like a reference point.

00:06:12.000 Like, oh, we might, we might consider it in some of our ruling.

00:06:16.000 I agree with you.

00:06:17.000 I went through the same sort of mental gymnastics this weekend, Eric, because I said, well, John Roberts, he's ruled correctly on some things.

00:06:23.000 He's not a dummy.

00:06:24.000 How could you come to this decision?

00:06:26.000 I mean, Sodomayor and Kagan, I get that. 0.94

00:06:28.000 I mean, they're Rassoian Ava Peron types, right? 0.84

00:06:31.000 Like they got lost in the Argentinian Revolution and somehow found themselves on the Supreme Court.

00:06:37.000 But John Roberts, I mean, he was Bush appointee.

00:06:39.000 He's supposed to be one of us, and he's not.

00:06:42.000 He came up with a very bizarre ruling here, and I think dangerous.

00:06:46.000 I think he really betrayed our country for what he did here.

00:06:49.000 Because here's what's happening, Eric.

00:06:50.000 Pastor Rob McCoy, Pastor Jack Hibbs, the real fighters out there, they have now had an increased amount of governmental overreach and scrutiny this last weekend.

00:07:01.000 It does, the decision was Nevada.

00:07:01.000 So you're right.

00:07:03.000 We're talking about California now.

00:07:05.000 But now it's a national application of it because the Supreme Court ruled on it, right?

00:07:05.000 That's right.

00:07:11.000 So now other churches across the country that were reopening safely and securely are now feeling the pain and they're being targeted because of this outrageous decision.

00:07:22.000 Well, I guess I want to, there's a few things that pop into my mind as you talk about this.

00:07:28.000 I preached in Ocean City, New Jersey a couple of weekends ago, and they have an auditorium that seats 1,000 people.

00:07:41.000 And so they said, well, we can have Theoretically, 200 people in here would be safe social distancing.

00:07:48.000 But Governor Murphy has said only 100 people, it's the max.

00:07:53.000 In other words, it doesn't matter if the church auditorium could hold 1,000 or 500.

00:08:00.000 If it's either 20% of what it could hold or 100 people, whichever is less.

00:08:06.000 So we ended up having the service outdoors, and I don't know, there's probably 180 people there or something like that.

00:08:13.000 But the reason you and I are annoyed by this, and many Americans are annoyed by this, is there seems to be a level of animus toward religion.

00:08:27.000 There also seems to be a level of subjectivity.

00:08:32.000 In other words, if everybody can sort of see the point, you say, well, we don't like it, but we get it.

00:08:37.000 But it does seem that the rulings have fallen unfairly against churches.

00:08:42.000 And that's why folks like Rob McCoy and Jack Hibbs and now John MacArthur are, I think, heroically dissenting.

00:08:50.000 I completely agree.

00:08:52.000 And, Eric, look, I wanted to give some of these people at least the temporary benefit of the doubt.

00:08:57.000 I really did.

00:08:58.000 But when we have to tolerate as a society 56 nights of arson and terrorism in Portland or in Chicago, where they have thousands of people congregating at once, and you're telling me that 51 people are violating the law if they gather in Las Vegas to go take communion or to go take a holy sacrament.

00:09:16.000 I mean, this is outrageous, Eric.

00:09:18.000 And what's really happened is that the Supreme Court basically has said church is not essential.

00:09:23.000 That is what happened here.

00:09:24.000 Not every member on the Supreme Court is 5'4, and their reasoning is backwards and incorrect. 0.99

00:09:30.000 But I think that the default position of our government, Eric, should be we should have to go to extreme lengths to shut down religious services.

00:09:37.000 I think one of the reasons we are seeing so much unrest is because people have not been able to go to church.

00:09:42.000 People haven't been able to connect to the moral center.

00:09:45.000 I am actually against this kind of digitalization of church services.

00:09:50.000 Call me old school.

00:09:51.000 I actually like being able to dress up, go to a church, feel as if I'm entering into a house of God, have a complete and total mind kind of shaping experience.

00:10:01.000 Whereas you just kind of turn on your television at 10 a.m. on a Sunday morning, I don't feel that same sort of connection.

00:10:06.000 And you have millions of people that agree with me, by the way.

00:10:09.000 And people wonder why we kind of have this identity crisis as a country.

00:10:14.000 I don't think it's unfair to say it's because we've disallowed church services in a lot of states.

00:10:18.000 The church has always been the moral center against Rousseau and French Revolution tactics, always.

00:10:24.000 And all of a sudden, you get rid of that.

00:10:25.000 We wonder, well, why do we have a French Revolution happening?

00:10:27.000 Well, maybe it's because we don't have church happening anymore.

00:10:30.000 Wow, that is wonderful connection.

00:10:35.000 I expect no less from you, Charlie Kirk.

00:10:38.000 Folks, I'm talking to Charlie Kirk.

00:10:41.000 He's with the Falkirk Center at Liberty University.

00:10:43.000 And hey, I also am with the Falkirk Center at Liberty University.

00:10:47.000 I love it.

00:10:48.000 Now, Charlie, you just talked about a whole bunch of things that raise many issues.

00:10:52.000 For example, if you will permit me for a second, I think let's talk about what's called stare decisis, right?

00:11:02.000 Stare decisis refers in Latin to the idea that when the Supreme Court makes a ruling, future Supreme Court rulings need or should take that into consideration rather than willy-nilly switch from left to right, from right to left, from this to that.

00:11:20.000 In other words, that they want to, here's the key: they want to continue to inspire confidence in the institution of the judicial branch.

00:11:32.000 Because one of the things that makes democracy work is that the people, we the people, have, generally speaking, confidence and trust in the institutions of government.

00:11:43.000 It doesn't mean that sometimes it doesn't go sideways or sometimes it doesn't get difficult.

00:11:48.000 But generally speaking, we're not cynical.

00:11:51.000 What Roberts has done recently and what other rulings have done recently and what's been happening in the country generally recently is things seem to have gotten so nakedly partisan, so nakedly political, and in the case of these judicial decisions,

00:12:07.000 so subjective that people begin to back up, begin to lose confidence, for example, in the Supreme Court and to treat it like any other political entity and talk about conservative justices and liberal justices.

00:12:21.000 And you think it should not be that way.

00:12:24.000 In other words, they ought to be very, very careful about rattling the populace. 0.52

00:12:32.000 Because in 1973, for example, when Roe v. Wade happened or when same-sex marriage was effectively shoved down our throat, the people feel like, wait a minute, whether I agree with the decision or don't, we haven't really been able to argue this through in a healthy way. 0.62

00:12:54.000 And so at that point, when the Supreme Court makes a decision, just as with Obamacare, when you have the legislature just throw down this law, people feel disenfranchised and that undermines every kind of freedom.

00:13:08.000 It has nothing to do with left or right.

00:13:09.000 It just undermines freedom.

00:13:12.000 Well, yeah, and it's a very important point, Eric.

00:13:14.000 And the founders didn't intend for this, but the Supreme Court actually has almost super governmental power if they so choose to use it.

00:13:22.000 Actually, more so than the legislative and the executive.

00:13:24.000 So we learn early on that there's checks and balances, right?

00:13:27.000 And that's true.

00:13:28.000 The only check that we have on the Supreme Court is future nominees and impeaching a Supreme Court justice.

00:13:35.000 If the Supreme Court decides to make their own law, which they have in recent years, what's our check against that?

00:13:40.000 Very little, actually, especially with a broken Congress and a legislature that is heavily divided.

00:13:46.000 So in the gay marriage decision, for example, where Anthony Kennedy wrongly decided just to be, to overturn over, I think, 28 state legislatures that held up that marriage is between one man and one woman.

00:13:58.000 All of a sudden, the Supreme Court made the law, and what was our check?

00:14:00.000 Nothing.

00:14:01.000 And so that's a very, we have been taught that all the branches of government are equal.

00:14:06.000 And that's correct in a theoretical sense.

00:14:09.000 But in a practical sense, the Supreme Court is actually the most powerful position of government because what's our check against it?

00:14:15.000 It's very little.

00:14:16.000 I mean, if Donald Trump decides to put up a Goya Beans tweak, they're going to impeach him for violating the emoluments clause, right?

00:14:25.000 I mean, the legislative and executive are so checking each other every single day.

00:14:30.000 The only check we have, again, is impeaching one of these justices, which will not happen.

00:14:35.000 And so the point is this, though, is that, yes, this is how you get people that feel as if the government doesn't represent them.

00:14:41.000 I mean, when you hear people complain about the ruling class, go look at those nine people in black robes that are supposed to be impartial.

00:14:48.000 And what you have seen, though, is a radical movement.

00:14:51.000 This is nothing new.

00:14:52.000 It's just grown and they've multiplied of people that have gone to the United States Supreme Court and decided that this is a wonderful workshop to be able to destroy America.

00:15:01.000 This is our ultimate opportunity.

00:15:03.000 Who cares if I have to be, you know, justice is blind or trying to be an interpreter of the law?

00:15:07.000 No.

00:15:07.000 I mean, now, and then you have John Roberts, for whatever reason, continually trying to pander to the Sotomayor Kagan Ginsburg Breyer wing of the court, where Clarence Thomas, Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and Alito generally do the right thing.

00:15:21.000 Kavanaugh's been amazing, by the way.

00:15:23.000 It's amazing how the two most principled people on the court are the people that they try to destroy most.

00:15:27.000 That's a different topic for a different time.

00:15:30.000 I want to shift to something even less pleasant.

00:15:32.000 I'd like to talk about the rioting that's happening, for example, in Portland.

00:15:38.000 I am aghast, frankly, because what it seems to me is happening in Portland is no longer mere rioting.

00:15:46.000 Forget about peaceful demonstrations.

00:15:48.000 That's a joke.

00:15:49.000 But there's rioting and there's rioting.

00:15:51.000 And then there is, how do we put it? Armed organized rebellion against the citizens of the United States.

00:16:01.000 We have Antifa and others who are obviously plotting in the way that militaries plot, not the way mobs behave, but in the way that militaries plot and they have supply chains and things.

00:16:15.000 And obviously the media are not reporting on this.

00:16:19.000 Well, you're exactly right.

00:16:20.000 I mean, it's so Orwellian the way the media is reporting on it, actually.

00:16:24.000 And I mean, I've been rereading 1984, and I feel like I'm reading the LA Times in real time.

00:16:29.000 I really do.

00:16:30.000 I mean, I don't feel as if this thing was written in the 1950s by a kind of a meandering socialist in the United Kingdom.

00:16:37.000 I feel like this is a columnist for the New York Times.

00:16:39.000 The New York Times had an article this last weekend that said, the real threat in Portland is Donald Trump's standing army.

00:16:45.000 It's like, this is so incredible.

00:16:46.000 This is doublethink.

00:16:47.000 This is the only way I could describe it or double speak.

00:16:51.000 And so, look, we have armed insurrection happening in our country right now.

00:16:55.000 And for 56, 57 days straight in Portland and Seattle, even the local police have called it a riot.

00:17:01.000 The left is perfectly okay with defending it.

00:17:04.000 And of course, we're supposed to believe this is all just because of the wrongful murder of George Floyd, which is outrageous.

00:17:10.000 And it's not true.

00:17:11.000 These are people that are bitter.

00:17:14.000 It's way more than not true, Charlie.

00:17:15.000 Don't be kind.

00:17:16.000 It is a desecration of the memory of George Floyd.

00:17:20.000 And it's a desecration of the memory of anyone who was ill-treated at the hands of corrupt police.

00:17:24.000 This has so little to do with that that it should no longer even be mentioned.

00:17:28.000 Let me explain your audience.

00:17:30.000 Let me explain to your audience how doublespeak works or doublethink works because I think it's really helpful.

00:17:34.000 So let's pretend, Eric, you're eating a couple, you're eating cookies.

00:17:37.000 I come up to you, Eric, how many cookies did you eat?

00:17:39.000 Let's see you ate 10.

00:17:40.000 You say, well, I ate three.

00:17:41.000 That's a lie.

00:17:42.000 Let's say I come up to you and you're eating cookies.

00:17:44.000 I say, hey, Eric, how many cookies did you eat?

00:17:46.000 You have cookies all over your face.

00:17:48.000 I didn't eat any cookies.

00:17:49.000 You did.

00:17:50.000 No, no, I see you're eating the cookies.

00:17:52.000 Like, I promise you're eating the cookies.

00:17:53.000 No, you ate all the cookies.

00:17:55.000 It's the opposite of the truth.

00:17:56.000 And that's what's happening now, where it's even more sinister than a lie.

00:17:59.000 It's a complete reflection and deflection back to the actual accuser.

00:18:04.000 Go ahead.

00:18:05.000 No, I was just going to say exactly what you said in a different way, because this point you're making is really key.

00:18:13.000 Because Americans, my friend Larry Taunton wrote a piece and he talks about this Sololinsky tactics.

00:18:19.000 But what this is, I first woke up to this.

00:18:21.000 It must have been 1991.

00:18:23.000 I was taking a screenwriting course in Hollywood by the famous Robert McKee.

00:18:29.000 And as he talked about story and the structure of narrative, he says, there's good and then there is evil, but there's something even worse than evil.

00:18:42.000 It is evil masquerading as good.

00:18:46.000 In other words, a deeper level of evil is evil masquerading as good.

00:18:52.000 On some level, you could argue that's what every lie is.

00:18:54.000 It pretends to be the truth.

00:18:55.000 But there is a level of this happening now, and you just referred to it.

00:18:58.000 It's Orwellian.

00:19:00.000 And I think most Americans aren't used to it.

00:19:02.000 In other words, it's a level of cynicism involved that's freaky.

00:19:07.000 Well, and so Orwell warned against this in some of his later lectures, where he said the human psyche actually isn't prepared for double speak, where it's actually so incredibly different than how we process information.

00:19:21.000 It actually creates you to be subservient.

00:19:23.000 So, for example, when you go up and you're like, wow, maybe they should stop looting. 0.99

00:19:27.000 And they say, shut up, racist. 0.97

00:19:29.000 Like, no, no, no, can you please stop burning down the city? 1.00

00:19:31.000 Like, no, shut up, racist. 1.00

00:19:32.000 Like, we don't even know how to deal with that. 0.99

00:19:34.000 And we actually just kind of either walk away or we kind of just take the knee metaphorically or literally.

00:19:39.000 And it's so incredibly effective because we as decent human beings who actually want to see civil society and a stable country and a place to build a family, we look at this and we dare question it, right?

00:19:51.000 And those of us that aren't trained and able to spot it out, I can understand why certain people have remained very silent.

00:19:57.000 I can understand in a certain sense why people are so confused and why, and you're exactly right.

00:20:02.000 Just in a human psychological analysis, we are not equipped.

00:20:07.000 That's the best term, equipped to be able to confront this Orwellian approach, where I have to read in the New York Times that it's Donald Trump that is causing the chaos importantly.

00:20:17.000 Right.

00:20:19.000 It's hard.

00:20:20.000 And I think it's why it's worth our taking the time to talk about it. 0.96

00:20:23.000 The term used by the cognizanti, the chattering classes, who always invent new terms.

00:20:28.000 And most Americans, like my parents and stuff, they don't get this.

00:20:33.000 But the term gaslighting for the last few years, you know, younger people on Twitter and stuff talk about gaslighting.

00:20:38.000 That comes from a movie in the 40s starring Ingrid Bergman and Joseph Cotton, one of the greatest movies ever, Gaslight, in which the husband of Ingrid Bergman, he begins to play head games with her.

00:20:51.000 And he will hide something and then accuse her of being forgetful. 0.96

00:20:56.000 You are so forgetful, pola. 0.97

00:20:58.000 You know, he begins to plant these ideas and to drive her insane. 0.99

00:21:01.000 He's gaslighting her.

00:21:02.000 We use that term today.

00:21:04.000 That is what is happening.

00:21:05.000 When I watch, for example, somebody like a Chuck Schumer pontificating foolishly, they are saying precisely the opposite, but in such a way that it seems absolutely true.

00:21:18.000 And honestly, Charlie, what you're talking about, I mean, you've read these Orwell essays, which I've not read, but the human mind really needs to understand what is happening and to begin to understand that if you do not see what is happening, you're powerless against it.

00:21:36.000 So we're in a new realm right now.

00:21:40.000 I think we've only got 20 seconds.

00:21:42.000 So please respond and we'll come back.

00:21:43.000 It's a new realm.

00:21:45.000 We now have to train people to be equipped to fight it.

00:21:47.000 And they are employing 84 doublespeak.

00:21:50.000 And it is a dystopian world we live in, literally and figuratively.

00:21:56.000 I want to say, folks, that it's important that you send these videos if you get them as videos.

00:22:02.000 Most people listen on the radio, but we're putting everything now on YouTube.

00:22:06.000 Please go to my YouTube channel, subscribe to it.

00:22:08.000 It's the Eric Metaxas show on YouTube.

00:22:10.000 Please subscribe.

00:22:11.000 Please send these videos to people.

00:22:13.000 We need to get the message out.

00:22:15.000 We'll be right back with Charlie Kirk.

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00:23:55.000 Folks, talking to Charlie Kirk, who is with Liberty University's Falkirk Center, of course.

00:24:02.000 I, too, am with the Falkirk Center at Liberty University.

00:24:05.000 I'm a senior fellow.

00:24:07.000 Are there any junior fellows, Charlie?

00:24:10.000 We're trying to train some.

00:24:11.000 Let's just put it this way, that if there was a title that was higher than yours, then it wouldn't be a true center around faith and liberty.

00:24:18.000 Well, then I will accept that.

00:24:18.000 All right.

00:24:18.000 Okay.

00:24:20.000 I want to talk again about what's happening in Portland.

00:24:23.000 There's a lot of confusion about what the federal government ought and ought not to do.

00:24:28.000 Judge Napolitano has said very clearly that he considers Trump sending federal troops or marshals in as unconstitutional.

00:24:37.000 Why do you suppose somebody like Judge Napolitano would be saying that?

00:24:42.000 I don't know.

00:24:43.000 I know him, so that's very perplexing and puzzling.

00:24:47.000 He's issued some perplexing statements in the last year.

00:24:50.000 I'm beginning to lose confidence in him.

00:24:54.000 Yeah, that doesn't sound right.

00:24:56.000 But look, I mean, first of all, there is an Insurrection Act of 1807 that any president can sign and was used against the Whiskey Rebellion and was used many other times.

00:25:04.000 I think it was 1807.

00:25:05.000 Anyway, the point is that there is an Insurrection Act on the books that can be used.

00:25:09.000 Secondly, I mean, this is the broader question.

00:25:12.000 H.W. Bush signed it in 91, the Rodney King riots, and it actually quelled the rebellion very nicely, you know, very effectively in Los Angeles.

00:25:19.000 And I guess my question to Judge Napolitano is, was Dwight D. Eisenhower acting in his constitutional authority to send federal troops into Little Rock, Arkansas to force, you know, to not basically force the bitter segregationists and racists to allow black children to go to school at the Little Rock Nine?

00:25:35.000 Republican, Dwight D. Eisenhower?

00:25:37.000 Isn't that the question, right?

00:25:38.000 And listen, you and I, speaking as conservatives, we do not like the federal government to overreach.

00:25:46.000 We believe in states' rights.

00:25:47.000 So we don't take this lightly.

00:25:49.000 But there is a time, and it seems to me when people are being murdered, when you have a level of ignorance or malfeasance or partisanship locally, whether on the state level or on a city level, the government, the federal government has an obligation to step in.

00:26:10.000 Lives are being put at risk, and local leaders don't care.

00:26:14.000 I mean, when lynching happened in the South, when Bull Connor acted in the way he did in the South, it seems to me none of us would have a problem because you're dealing with constitutional rights, liberty, life, and the pursuit of happiness.

00:26:28.000 Yeah, I mean, I guess the Democrats are getting back to their roots of George Wallace, right?

00:26:32.000 I mean, that's basically where we're at right now, where George Wallace stared down federal troops and said, you will not segregate, you know, you will not desegregate the American South.

00:26:41.000 I guess that was a Democrat then, I guess, a Democrat today.

00:26:44.000 What's really perplexing, Eric, though, and I think you would agree with this, is how the Democrats hide behind our own doctrine of states' rights when it fits their own agenda.

00:26:51.000 But when they, and it's so, I mean, of course, they don't actually believe in states' rights.

00:26:55.000 I mean, they believe in hiding behind it in their own little mini city states called California, Seattle, Portland, and New York City when they want to defy federal immigration law, when they want to create their own little sanctuary areas absent of the federal rule of law.

00:27:12.000 But I guess the question here is, why would it be unconstitutional if there's already a law in the books that would allow it? 0.60

00:27:19.000 But let's sidestep that for a second because I think that's just a foolish statement.

00:27:22.000 I think it's perfectly constitutional.

00:27:24.000 The question is, is it right for Trump to do?

00:27:26.000 And the answer is, of course it is.

00:27:28.000 And some people say, well, this is good for Republicans, the more that our cities burn and blah, blah, blah, like the pollsters.

00:27:34.000 I just think that whole take is so ridiculously outrageous that you're going to sit idly by while we have the arson and terror in our country and do nothing.

00:27:42.000 So I think the president is right to deploy these kinds of federal resources.

00:27:45.000 And look, we know this, Eric, that problems that are not confronted multiply.

00:27:49.000 We saw what happened at the Democrat National Convention in Chicago in the late 1960s, I believe it was, either 1960, yeah, 1960.

00:27:57.000 1968, and a Democratic mayor, Dale, Jr., cracked down big time.

00:28:04.000 And it could have gone, it could have burned the whole city down.

00:28:06.000 It really could have.

00:28:07.000 And so, so, look, I am of the, I have no tolerance for violent outrage.

00:28:11.000 And I think that even some conservative media gets this wrong.

00:28:15.000 I've been reading some of this stuff over the weekend.

00:28:16.000 They say protests continued for the 56th day in Portland.

00:28:19.000 I said, you know what?

00:28:20.000 A protest is kind of what we did during the lockdown, where we didn't burn anything.

00:28:25.000 We cleaned up after ourselves and we got a permit and we were very respectful.

00:28:29.000 And they still brought out the Praetorian Guard to try to enforce measures against us when we protested the lockdowns.

00:28:35.000 An insurrection is when you use weapons and violence and physical retribution to try to overtake a government.

00:28:41.000 That's what's happening in Portland and Seattle.

00:28:44.000 Well, when we spoke earlier about gaslighting and about the newspeak of Orwell, it seems to me, you know, to put it in Freudian terms, and I hate Freud, but it's kind of projection, right?

00:28:54.000 Whatever it is that I'm in fact doing, I accuse you of doing.

00:28:59.000 And there's something I say it's demonic, right?

00:29:02.000 Because it's worse than a lie.

00:29:06.000 It's a very cynical lie. 0.83

00:29:08.000 And so the left has, for the last 50 and 60 and more years, portrayed conservatives as jack-booted thugs, right? 0.83

00:29:18.000 And in reality, they have been the ones who've been the jack-booted thugs.

00:29:23.000 And they've done this so effectively in the media over 50 years.

00:29:27.000 It's why I always talk about culture and the media: we are way behind in being able to portray the reality of what's been happening in America.

00:29:36.000 But they do this time and time again so that if a conservative or pro-Trump person sneezes, they portray it a certain way.

00:29:45.000 And if folks on their side are using lasers to blind federal officers, you know, that's just part of the way things go.

00:29:52.000 Yeah, and could someone explain or at least give me one example of an organized conservative, let's just say, activity that ever resulted in physical retribution ever.

00:30:03.000 That's the point, Charles.

00:30:05.000 That's exactly the point. 0.90

00:30:07.000 It doesn't happen, but that specter is raised over and over again, whether they have to go back to lynchings in the South, which, you know, even to call those conservatives gets ridiculous.

00:30:18.000 We know they were racist, but we also know that the Democratic Party was in the vanguard of that kind of stuff.

00:30:24.000 So we're going to go to another break.

00:30:26.000 We'll be right back with Charlie Kirk.

00:30:28.000 Don't go away.

00:30:29.000 Charlie, I've got to ask you about education.

00:30:31.000 A lot of people over this past weekend, as the chaos has continued and the violence has continued, they've begun to point the fingers at education.

00:30:40.000 Over 50 years, we have effectively indoctrinated young people with a worldview that is more pro-Fidel Castro, more pro-Soviet Union, more pro-conservative, sorry, a communist party of China than it is pro-American along the founders' vision.

00:31:01.000 Do you think that there's anything that this president or that the Senate can do?

00:31:07.000 Because, you know, you referenced Orwell writing a long time ago, many decades ago.

00:31:12.000 1950s.

00:31:13.000 You have to know, of course, that C.S. Lewis wrote very similar things.

00:31:16.000 In the book, The Abolition of Man, he talks about this.

00:31:20.000 He wrote this stuff 80 years ago, but it was prophetic.

00:31:23.000 Is exactly said what would happen and what we're seeing the fruit of now.

00:31:28.000 Yeah, and look, this is this is the issue that we struggle with right now.

00:31:33.000 And there's two factors to it because this is the price we pay for abundance and liberty.

00:31:38.000 Because what ends up happening is one generation fights to save the Republic and save Western society.

00:31:44.000 Their kids decide to rebel slightly and then end up getting somewhat on the most path, my parents' generation.

00:31:50.000 And then they are convinced that my generation has to go into these mind-warping indoctrination camps because that is what is needed to be an upper-middle-class individual in our country.

00:32:00.000 And this has been one of the great lies of America in the last 30, 40 years.

00:32:04.000 I'm actually working on a book on it.

00:32:06.000 And it's not that I'm anti-college in the sense of what it should be.

00:32:09.000 I'm actually pro-enlightenment.

00:32:11.000 I love it.

00:32:11.000 I love learning about Descartes and Marcus Aurelius.

00:32:14.000 I just wish that's what happened because it's not. 0.87

00:32:17.000 Instead, you learn about Nicole Hannah-Jones and you learn about white fragility, and you bathe in the nonsense of Jean-Jacques Rousseau that we need to be a primitive civilization, that civilized society is something that is wrong. 0.88

00:32:32.000 And that you look at this, it creates very ungrateful, unhappy people. 0.90

00:32:37.000 And you pair that with a very dire and real financial circumstance.

00:32:41.000 And this is the second part of this that conservatives don't always talk about, Eric.

00:32:44.000 And I'd love to get into this, which is for recent graduates, the amount of debt burden, the things that they're studying actually don't help them economically.

00:32:52.000 And since they don't see their well-being, and they also go into these overly flooded cities where things are so incredibly expensive that they're not able to build wealth, they don't get married, they're very miserable by the time they turn 28 or 30, that they're perfect for a revolution.

00:33:06.000 They're ripe for a revolution, actually.

00:33:07.000 That their net assets are $70,000 in the hole.

00:33:11.000 They're working minimum wage jobs that wouldn't have required a college degree in the first place.

00:33:15.000 And all of a sudden, that lecture that they heard five years ago about the need for a rebellion, you know, taking the spirit of Roba Spear, all of a sudden they act on it.

00:33:22.000 And we wonder, it's so funny.

00:33:24.000 I talked to some of these people in some of the best, you know, wealthiest communities across our country.

00:33:28.000 And I love doing it in the summer because these are kind of when the enclaves of the mountains and the upper east, you know, that's kind of where people gather and they kind of start to discuss how much money they should give to Yale.

00:33:39.000 And I start to ask, I ask themselves, I say, but why do you have to do that?

00:33:44.000 Not every, and you know, they're starting to, a lot of people are starting to wake up.

00:33:46.000 They say, oh, well, because we know we need more people to be able to go to our best institutions.

00:33:51.000 And I say, well, what have they produced?

00:33:54.000 I mean, you wonder why the statues are tumbling down.

00:33:56.000 You wonder why we have these revolutionaries.

00:33:58.000 It's large in part because whatever happens on college campuses, it's not like a nuclear spill where you could just contain it.

00:34:03.000 It's not Chernobyl.

00:34:04.000 It's a virus.

00:34:04.000 It spreads.

00:34:06.000 So that's what we fight for every day.

00:34:07.000 Look, again, to be clear, and I don't like to always reference myself, but there's just no getting around it.

00:34:15.000 I was at Yale.

00:34:17.000 I know, that's why I mentioned it.

00:34:18.000 I graduated 36 years ago.

00:34:20.000 Like, it's hard to believe how long ago we're talking the early 80s.

00:34:25.000 What we are talking about right now, this is why I'm bringing it up.

00:34:29.000 It was in full flower at Yale in the early 80s, going up to 40 years ago.

00:34:36.000 It didn't start 10 years ago or 20 years ago.

00:34:39.000 It was in full flower.

00:34:41.000 I was indoctrinated in the early 80s along all the lines we are talking about.

00:34:47.000 And then after I'd become a Christian and after I'd found my way back to the conservatism and patriotism of my dad, who raised me to love this country, I realized that William F. Buckley, the father of modern conservatism, wrote about Yale and about this in a book called God and Men at Yale, which was about his experience at Yale in the late 40s.

00:35:11.000 So we are talking about something that has been trickle down education, trickle-down culture in these elite institutions in America since the 40s.

00:35:22.000 In Europe, it goes back another 25 years after World War I.

00:35:28.000 So these are different ways of seeing reality, and they have finally come into the mainstream.

00:35:34.000 So we have young people believing these things, tearing down statues, trying to burn down federal buildings.

00:35:42.000 To my mind, without any question, education is the problem and not just college education, Charlie.

00:35:47.000 K through 12 has been doing this.

00:35:49.000 The teachers unions are as woke as it gets.

00:35:51.000 Yeah, and I'm working on this thesis as well, which I think you would enjoy, which is it's the educational foundation that's been laid.

00:35:59.000 And then it's also the American middle class that has grown more cynical about their economic well-being.

00:36:04.000 And so I've studied closely the Russian Revolution, the Cuban Revolution, why Castro and Che Guevara, why were they able to have residence in Cuba?

00:36:13.000 It's because the Cuban middle class basically lost faith that if they kept working hard and playing by the rules, things were going to get better. 0.54

00:36:19.000 And I'm really afraid for our American middle class because they're starting to set in with that kind of cynicism. 0.97

00:36:24.000 And that's because, for example, in the 60s and 70s, one of the reasons why the Soviet attempts to try to build up the communist revolution in America just kind of fell flat on its face is that the factory worker in Toledo is like, that sounds great.

00:36:37.000 I got to go back to work.

00:36:38.000 Okay, you can go study all this nonsense.

00:36:40.000 But now we've laid the foundation. 0.80

00:36:42.000 And if the American middle class does not think that their kids are going to be better off than them, whether it's true or not, it's just all kind of appearance is reality here, then all of a sudden they are perfect potential Bolsheviks. 0.83

00:36:54.000 In fact, they're ideal Bolsheviks. 0.66

00:36:56.000 Because if you just lose sense in the material well-being of your society, and I'm not an over-materialist, I'm not, but to say that it doesn't play a role, I think is not correct. 0.91

00:37:04.000 Where that if you do not think that if you work hard in 10 years from now, you're going to be richer and your kids will be better, then you'll either disconnect from the process or you'll tell your kids to go burn down the city.

00:37:16.000 There it is in a nutshell.

00:37:18.000 I think that, again, what we've been seeing very recently is the full flowering of this kind of thing.

00:37:23.000 When you have people shining lasers into the eyes, the blind federal marshals, I have to say that most Americans, I think, see where things have come.

00:37:38.000 They see that when you get to this level, it's all breaking down.

00:37:43.000 What might have begun as a peaceful protest has been hijacked.

00:37:47.000 And I think this election is going to hinge on that.

00:37:49.000 When we come back, I want to talk to you about the upcoming election and what we're facing.

00:37:54.000 I think it's, you know, I hate to say it, broken record, but it's the most important election in my lifetime for sure.

00:38:02.000 We'll be right back, folks, talking to Charlie Kirk.

00:38:05.000 Charlie, we've got to end on some kind of a positive note.

00:38:10.000 I think there are enough Americans who understand that Trump stands against this stuff and has the guts to do so.

00:38:16.000 And I think there are enough Americans that are waking up to the idea that a Biden presidency, you might as well turn the keys of the kingdom over to the Portland rioters.

00:38:28.000 That's exactly right.

00:38:29.000 And so, yeah, look, a positive note is that we still have a chance to do something about this.

00:38:34.000 I mean, the American system, thankfully, we still have elections, that we don't have to settle this thing through civil insurrection, no matter how much the left wants to do that.

00:38:43.000 And so, yes, I mean, the positive is that we can do something about this in November.

00:38:47.000 Now, will we?

00:38:47.000 I hope we will.

00:38:49.000 I really do.

00:38:50.000 And if we don't, then what would it take?

00:38:52.000 I mean, my goodness, if we do not, if we do not re-elect Donald Trump, that'll be a deathblow to the Republic.

00:39:01.000 I have no doubt that that's true.

00:39:04.000 I mean, I do everything I can.

00:39:06.000 I've written books.

00:39:07.000 My book.

00:39:08.000 If you can keep it, thanks to you and people who've interviewed me, David Rubin and others.

00:39:13.000 It's like sold out at Amazon, which I guess is a good problem.

00:39:16.000 But I try in that book to lay out the basics just so that people understand this isn't some partisan thing.

00:39:22.000 This isn't something we just woke up and came up with some ideas.

00:39:25.000 This goes to the roots of what it is to govern ourselves.

00:39:28.000 And if you like self-government and liberty, you don't need to be a conservative.

00:39:33.000 You just need to understand that America has provided me some opportunities where I have a voice.

00:39:38.000 You need to fight and you need to understand that unless Trump is replaced by someone, he is the guy we have to vote for.

00:39:48.000 And I'm very fond of him.

00:39:51.000 But if you're not fond of him, you have to understand the other side is going to take us so dramatically in the other direction.

00:39:57.000 I think people are beginning to see that.

00:39:59.000 And by the way, final comment: what about what is happening to Biden?

00:40:03.000 How is it possible that he could be doing well in the polls when he seems to be a shell of his former self and even his former self was a shell?

00:40:11.000 Well, you and I will have to do a whole nother hour on this, but he's he's he's in right now framed it as a referendum on Donald Trump.

00:40:18.000 And that's been very effective for him is that it's almost a vote of no confidence, not a Biden versus Trump election.

00:40:24.000 As soon as it becomes an actual election and it's a binary choice, it's a completely different set of decision-making matrixes.

00:40:31.000 Whether or not you like Trump or whether you want Trump to continue for four more years versus Joe Biden, two completely different things.

00:40:37.000 And they're being conflated as the same thing in some of this public polling.

00:40:44.000 I think that about says it, but I'm just wondering how in the next hundred days this is going to funnel down.

00:40:50.000 In other words, at some point, Biden has to come out of the basement and has to appear more like a conventional candidate.

00:41:02.000 Things are strange because of COVID, because we're not having the conventions in the way that we normally do.

00:41:06.000 But I really think it's easy to say I vote for Biden.

00:41:09.000 But as we come down to the actual voting day, he's going to have to do something that he hasn't done yet.

00:41:16.000 I just wonder how that's going to work out.

00:41:18.000 So if I was Biden, I wouldn't debate.

00:41:20.000 Things can change very quickly.

00:41:22.000 It's that old Hemingway quote.

00:41:23.000 It happened gradually than suddenly.

00:41:25.000 And do not be surprised if that happens.

00:41:27.000 I tell every Trump supporter out there, this thing could be a late breaker, the likes of which we have never seen.

00:41:32.000 Remember, Ronald Reagan was down seven points to Jimmy Carter 10 days before the election, and he had a late break, the likes of which no one has ever seen.

00:41:39.000 Pat Cadell, may he rest in peace, had told me that story at least 22 times.

00:41:43.000 He's like, we in the Carter campaign.

00:41:45.000 We saw it happen and we couldn't stop it.

00:41:47.000 We could not stop it.

00:41:48.000 People were showing up and they were just the late break is a real thing.

00:41:51.000 It happened in 2016.

00:41:52.000 And so when you look at the summer polls, it almost always tilts in the favor of the establishment Democrat.

00:41:58.000 I know we're running out of time.

00:41:59.000 God bless you, Eric.

00:42:00.000 Thank you for everything.

00:42:02.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:42:04.000 Please get involved with Turning PointUSA at tpusa.com.

00:42:07.000 Consider supporting our program.

00:42:10.000 We do a lot to try to deliver you the facts and evidence around arguments that make sense.

00:42:16.000 Go to charliekirk.com/slash support.

00:42:18.000 That is charliekirk.com/slash support.

00:42:21.000 Email me directly at freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:42:24.000 Type in Charlie Kirk Show, hit subscribe on your podcast provider, and email us, you doing that at freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:42:30.000 Make sure to listen to our sister episode where we sit down with nine doctors with 200 years of combined experience.

00:42:37.000 They are facts you do not want to miss.

00:42:38.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

The Charlie Kirk Show - July 29, 2020

Joe Biden, John Roberts, and America UNHINGED with Eric Metaxas

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