The Charlie Kirk Show - Leftist, Marxist...and Pro-MAGA?

00:00:00.000 Hey, everybody.

00:00:00.000 A great conversation with someone who calls herself a leftist, a Marxist.

00:00:04.000 You're going to love this conversation.

00:00:05.000 We have more in common than the media would ever lead you to believe.

00:00:08.000 Bacha Ungar Sargon, author of Second Class and also the author of Bad News: How Woke Media is Undermining Democracy.

00:00:16.000 I think you'll love this conversation.

00:00:18.000 Email us as alwaysfreedom at charliekirk.com.

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00:00:45.000 Buckle up, everybody.

00:00:46.000 Here we go.

00:00:47.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:49.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

00:00:51.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

00:00:54.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:00:58.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:00:59.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:01:00.000 His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created.

00:01:07.000 Turning point USA. 0.65

00:01:08.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

00:01:17.000 That's why we are here.

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00:01:45.000 Joining us now is one of the most interesting people in media today and really excited to explore several topics with her.

00:01:54.000 Bacha Ungar Sargon.

00:01:56.000 I hope I said that correctly, author of Second Class, How the Elites Betrayed America's Working Men and Woman. 1.00

00:02:02.000 Bacha, welcome to the program.

00:02:03.000 Charlie, it's such an honor to be here with you.

00:02:06.000 I think that you are one of the most important voices in America today, giving young people an alternative.

00:02:12.000 And so I feel really humbled to be here with you and very excited about the conversation we're going to have.

00:02:17.000 Well, thank you.

00:02:17.000 I first became aware of you in a dialogue you had with Dennis Prager, and I thought that was awesome.

00:02:23.000 And I think that was like a year, year and a half ago.

00:02:25.000 So why don't you introduce yourself to the audience?

00:02:27.000 You're not, you don't really fit any particular mold.

00:02:31.000 You're a free thinker.

00:02:32.000 You care about the middle class.

00:02:34.000 You have certain views that would definitely resonate with liberals, but some that would resonate more with kind of populist nationalists.

00:02:42.000 Who is Bacha Ungar Sargon?

00:02:46.000 It's such a great question.

00:02:48.000 Okay, I'm actually really curious what you think about this, Charlie.

00:02:51.000 I feel like left and right has become kind of meaningless because to me, being on the left used to mean you stand with the working class and with labor.

00:03:00.000 And it definitely does not mean that anymore.

00:03:03.000 My book, Second Class, is all about how the Democrats especially betrayed the working class and abandoned them, right?

00:03:09.000 But on the other hand, you know, I feel like right used to mean going to war and being on the side of corporations and the rich.

00:03:16.000 And it really doesn't mean that anymore.

00:03:19.000 I think the most interesting thing that's happened is that there's a new center that's kind of opened up.

00:03:24.000 And I think Trump is actually representing that center.

00:03:28.000 I mean, to me, if you just look at his policies, he is kind of, he's the consensus president that President Biden said he was going to be and, you know, ended up instead representing the far left of his flank.

00:03:41.000 So to me, I don't know, left versus right.

00:03:43.000 I find it really hard to say like where I am anymore.

00:03:45.000 I'm still nominally a leftist, but to me, that just means I stand with the working class.

00:03:50.000 The American working class are it's just like the most amazing, tolerant, kind, warm, wonderful people, and um, have become the have turned us into the nation that we always wanted to be.

00:04:05.000 And at the same time, the elites have betrayed them in such a big way as to take away their voice and their ability to have themselves represented in a democratic way.

00:04:12.000 What do you think about this, like left versus right?

00:04:14.000 Do you agree with me that these works don't really mean I think the spectrum is a little messed up.

00:04:18.000 I mean, I would say the spectrum is helpful on certain issues.

00:04:22.000 I mean, for example, like the pro-life, you know, pro-abortion issue, those have remained, you know, firearm ownership.

00:04:28.000 But on neoliberalism, which you highlighted, which is far as representation of the muscular class, immigration policy, and adventurous foreign wars, the spectrum is completely irrelevant now.

00:04:40.000 It is basically the spectrum is now: are you on team oligarchy or are you on team citizen?

00:04:46.000 That's basically the new spectrum.

00:04:48.000 And it's not right versus left, it's really big versus small or up versus down.

00:04:52.000 That's kind of the somewhat inverted.

00:04:55.000 I would say that the political spectrum is still helpful on social issues or call it, you know, more cultural issues.

00:05:00.000 But talk more about the core essence of your book, which is that the American working class, how elites betrayed America's working men and women.

00:05:12.000 Who are the elites?

00:05:13.000 Who are these people that we throw around?

00:05:15.000 Give us some examples of who do you consider the elites to be.

00:05:18.000 Yeah, and this is something also I want to get into with you because it's very hard for me to talk about them without getting really angry because the betrayal runs so deep because they didn't just abandon labor and the working class.

00:05:33.000 What they did was they abandoned them and then called them racist from their perch of immense privilege in order to mask this betrayal, right?

00:05:44.000 And I find that so infuriating and unacceptable, but I'm going to try to say it in a kind of like more calm way.

00:05:51.000 I think before Trump, you really had sort of elites on both sides running the country.

00:05:55.000 So you had the Democratic elites who were catering to this kind of over-credentialed college-educated set.

00:06:03.000 I mean, it's the people that we always rail against, right?

00:06:06.000 They go to college, they get these super far-left ideas.

00:06:11.000 Their worldview has replaced the difference between right versus wrong with some sort of powerful versus powerless binary.

00:06:20.000 And anyone who they think has less power is inherently virtuous and is beyond reproach and criticism, right?

00:06:27.000 And that's their entire worldview.

00:06:29.000 It's so disastrous.

00:06:31.000 And from that worldview, they have deemed, you know, anybody who disagrees with them to be in the oppressor class and evil.

00:06:39.000 And that includes, of course, all white people, but also any black or Hispanic people who don't agree with them politically.

00:06:44.000 And they use this ideology as a cudgel to silence political opposition.

00:06:50.000 And the thing I write about in the book is they now, though, have not only immense power culturally, but they created an economy that rewards the knowledge industry in immense ways with the American dream, which they are now hoarding.

00:07:05.000 And if you're working class, you're essentially second class. 0.97

00:07:08.000 It's much harder to achieve the American dream.

00:07:10.000 So that's kind of the elites on the left, the professional managerial class, they're often called, the top 10, 20% who are hoarding over 50% of the GDP, right?

00:07:20.000 And then, but then on the right, before Trump, you had the kind of, I mean, the people, the people that Nikki Haley represented, right?

00:07:26.000 The kind of like Chamber of Commerce, foreign war intervention, trickle-down economics, free trade version of the Republican Party that was very geared towards conservative elites, conservative rich people.

00:07:40.000 And Trump really, he really took an axe to that in a big way.

00:07:44.000 And I really think that there's no going back.

00:07:45.000 I don't know how you see it in terms of the GOP, if they could return to the pre-Trump version, like the way that the donor class is desperate to do.

00:07:53.000 I think that's a fantasy.

00:07:54.000 Yeah, I tend to agree with a lot of that.

00:07:58.000 And I would say, though, I wouldn't have necessary complaints if the American ruling class loved the country and they were making a bunch of money and gave it back.

00:08:07.000 It's just, first of all, I think how they've made it is awfully unethical.

00:08:12.000 Secondly, they have contempt for the people, for labor that actually allowed them to make massive amounts of money.

00:08:17.000 And number three, they have no sort of attachment to the body politic or the nation that they currently live in.

00:08:23.000 In fact, they just look at this as a colony, not as a country.

00:08:25.000 There's so much there to unpack.

00:08:27.000 One thing I do want you to emphasize, how dramatic has the oligarchy enriched themselves in the last four years, post-lockdowns, post-create, you know, cheap money. 0.67

00:08:39.000 How rich have the rich become?

00:08:42.000 I know you have some numbers that you can recite here.

00:08:45.000 It is dramatic.

00:08:46.000 It is the most unequal divergence we've seen since the Gilded era.

00:08:52.000 Is that fair to say?

00:08:53.000 That is completely fair to say.

00:08:55.000 There's been a massive upward transfer of wealth from the working class to the over-credentialed college elites.

00:09:05.000 It started before the pandemic, but since Joe Biden took office, it's been absolutely on steroids.

00:09:11.000 And every single thing he has done has contributed to this.

00:09:14.000 And often, Charlie, in the name of equity, right?

00:09:17.000 In the name of justice, that's what's so infuriating about it.

00:09:20.000 I'll give you a few examples.

00:09:22.000 Immigration, mass immigration, right? 0.98

00:09:24.000 Joe Biden very intentionally opened the border and signaled to people that they should feel free to come here.

00:09:31.000 And they did.

00:09:32.000 And there are now 10 million people who heeded his call.

00:09:35.000 Mass migration is class warfare against the working class. 0.98

00:09:39.000 It is an upward transfer of wealth because, of course, all of those people are competing in jobs that you don't need, you know, a command of the English language, jobs that require physical strength and brawn, working class jobs. 0.89

00:09:53.000 And of course, when you add 10 million workers to an industry, you are going to lower the wages of the Americans right there.

00:10:02.000 I mean, of course, spiritually, you're signaling to Americans that these jobs are worthless and meaningless and not worthy of respect and that you have contempt for them, right?

00:10:09.000 But just beyond that, economically, it's just obvious supply and demand.

00:10:13.000 You bring in 10 million people to compete with Americans. 0.91

00:10:16.000 The first thing it does is drive down wages.

00:10:18.000 It is class warfare.

00:10:20.000 And the reason I say an upward transfer of wealth is because you know what, Charlie?

00:10:24.000 These people are all being employed by people who are in the professional managerial class, right?

00:10:28.000 They are the consumers of illegal migrant labor. 0.91

00:10:33.000 Upward transfer of wealth from the struggling working class to these people who sit there, these millionaires who sit there on MSNBC and tell you that the economy is doing great because their stock portfolio is doing great. 0.82

00:10:46.000 I mean, it's so, so disgusting.

00:10:48.000 I'll give you another example.

00:10:49.000 Student loan forgiveness.

00:10:51.000 Upward transfer of wealth from hardworking Americans straight into the pockets of the college educated elites.

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00:12:06.000 I just wanted to point something out.

00:12:08.000 So in 1971, that was the high watermark for working class wages.

00:12:13.000 They started to stagnate after that.

00:12:15.000 And now they're basically in, you know, in free fall because if you compare it, you know, the rate of inflation and everything, people can't afford anything.

00:12:22.000 But so 1971, what was unique about 1971 and why did things start to go south after that?

00:12:28.000 The percentage of the country that was foreign born in 1971, that was not born here, was only 4%.

00:12:36.000 Today, it's 15%.

00:12:38.000 It's actually probably higher because of Joe Biden, because of these 10 million people that he allowed into the country.

00:12:44.000 And so it's at 15%.

00:12:45.000 The last time it was at 15% was in the Gilded Age, which is an age that is known in infamy for the income inequality and the fact that the elites were so rich and everybody else was so poor.

00:12:59.000 We're literally replicating the kinds of inequality we had in the most unequal period in American history under the auspices of helping the indigent, but always of other countries, like you pointed out, Charlie. 0.84

00:13:12.000 And it's even worse than that, Bacha.

00:13:14.000 And I alluded to this.

00:13:16.000 I mean, Cardin G. Rockefeller, J.P. Morgan, Mellon, they made a bunch of money, but they did love the country.

00:13:21.000 They gave back generously.

00:13:23.000 When asked, they said, I love this country.

00:13:25.000 I will build hospitals.

00:13:26.000 I'll build universities.

00:13:28.000 Back then, they weren't, you know, super woke.

00:13:30.000 Now the elite, Batia, they seem to have a bitterness and a resentment for the nation that made them so rich.

00:13:39.000 Where does that come from?

00:13:40.000 Yeah, they really hate America.

00:13:42.000 It comes straight out of the university system.

00:13:45.000 It's baked into the worldview that they're taught at university.

00:13:50.000 And I know this because I made the mistake of wasting seven years of my life and getting a PhD.

00:13:55.000 So I can tell you that, you know, it's true, not everybody does that.

00:13:58.000 It's true, not everybody goes to the humanities, but every person who goes to college in America has to take Composition 101.

00:14:05.000 And Composition 101 is taught by an English PhD nincum poop like I used to be. 1.00

00:14:10.000 And to get an English PhD, you have to take critical theory.

00:14:14.000 So there's no way to get through the university system, certainly the elite university system, without being exposed to these ideas that America is an inherently and irredeemably racist country, a canard that I absolutely refuse to listen to as a Jewish person who this country has been so good to.

00:14:33.000 It is an absolute canard, but you cannot get through the university system without being taught that America is fundamentally and irredeemably racist and will always remain so.

00:14:43.000 But the thing is, why do they keep perpetuating this canard? 0.69

00:14:46.000 It's because it is the perfect smokescreen for the class divide in this country, which is the truth, the real divide, which is that separates them, the elites pushing this nonsense about Israel about America being a white supremacy.

00:15:02.000 And then that protects them from having the truth seen, which is that they are benefiting from the inequality that they pretend to be fighting.

00:15:12.000 That is a perfect segue.

00:15:13.000 In fact, you literally took the word I was going to use, which is a theory that I have put out, and so is Tucker and many others, is that the wealthy, they deploy smokescreen grenades of the woke stuff, race, gender, as a distraction to confuse people while they plunder the American middle class, specifically younger Americans.

00:15:36.000 That a lot of this is distraction cultural issues.

00:15:39.000 I'm not saying they're insignificant, because I actually do think they're important.

00:15:42.000 I do think it's important that we could define what a woman is.

00:15:44.000 I think that's actually super important.

00:15:46.000 But they want us talking about nothing except that when in reality, 80 or 90% of the country agrees that we're getting poor and you can't buy a home anymore.

00:15:55.000 This is what Donald Trump fundamentally understands.

00:15:58.000 His voters don't need him to tell them what values to have.

00:16:02.000 They have their own values.

00:16:02.000 They're good people.

00:16:04.000 They need him to create an economy in which they're not lying in bed at night wondering how they're going to keep a roof over the head of their children.

00:16:12.000 But that is what they need from him.

00:16:14.000 They don't need him to tell them what to think about this cultural issue or that cultural issue.

00:16:17.000 It's nice that he agrees with them, you know?

00:16:19.000 It's nice that he's not insulting their values, right?

00:16:22.000 But they don't need that from him.

00:16:24.000 They need an economy that delivers for the working class.

00:16:27.000 And I think that's why he blew all of the others in the primary out of the water because they didn't understand this fundamental fact.

00:16:34.000 A lot of them, they still think that it's a competition of who can rehearse the neoliberal talking points best.

00:16:40.000 Like that's who gets the GOP nomination.

00:16:42.000 Invade Iran. 1.00

00:16:44.000 Cut corporate taxes.

00:16:46.000 Bring in a bunch of Somalians. 0.99

00:16:48.000 American dream and mourning is here.

00:16:50.000 Vote for me.

00:16:50.000 It's like, no, actually, that doesn't work anymore.

00:16:53.000 Okay.

00:16:54.000 People like we've been deprogrammed. 0.99

00:16:56.000 And I would add a fourth to the neoliberal order is mass migration, adventurous foreign wars, and then stupid trade policies. 0.97

00:17:03.000 And the fourth, I would say, is an unchecked fourth branch of government owned by the corporate class. 0.71

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00:18:17.000 The book is called Second Class.

00:18:20.000 So Bacha, explain how you think about the government, which is larger than ever, bigger than ever, but seems to be doing the bidding far too often of corporate America.

00:18:31.000 It's such a great point.

00:18:32.000 And it's just so great to hear somebody who's so affiliated with the right taking on corporations in corporate America.

00:18:38.000 It's like so important to the working class.

00:18:40.000 One of the things I found when I wrote my book, Second Class, is that working class Americans, they don't hate billionaires.

00:18:47.000 They don't hate millionaires.

00:18:48.000 They often see them as jobs creators and they really admire their hard work and they admire the work that they've done.

00:18:55.000 But they do feel that siding with corporations is siding against them.

00:19:00.000 And I heard that from many, many conservative Republican voting working class people.

00:19:06.000 They don't feel that being pro-corporation is being pro-themed.

00:19:11.000 So I think you're totally right.

00:19:13.000 You know, and what you're pointing to actually answers a big mystery in American society today, which is why don't the Democrats just control the border, right?

00:19:22.000 It's like such an obvious thing to do.

00:19:25.000 Like everybody wants them to do it.

00:19:26.000 Their own voters want them to do it, you know, to say nothing of that that was the Democrats' position in the 90s, right?

00:19:32.000 Protect workers, control the border.

00:19:34.000 Fine.

00:19:34.000 Okay.

00:19:34.000 You don't want to be that party anymore.

00:19:36.000 But it's so obvious that if Joe Biden doesn't get the border under control, that he's going to lose.

00:19:36.000 Fine.

00:19:41.000 Why don't they do it? 0.58

00:19:42.000 Why don't they just do it?

00:19:44.000 It would be so easy, right?

00:19:45.000 On day one, he undid three executive actions that Trump had done that were 100% successful at controlling the border.

00:19:52.000 And the reason is exactly what you allude to, Charlie, which is that there is a revolving door between democratic political campaigns, democratic politics, staffers of democratic politicians, and then the wide NGO leftist complex that feeds into all of these positions, that writes all of the white papers, that funds the vast majority of this stuff.

00:20:17.000 And the Democrats are truly beholden to them.

00:20:20.000 And indeed, it is so funny and ironic that they say that Trump is a threat to democracy when Trump represents literally turning his back on the donor class in order to represent voters, right?

00:20:31.000 Like the most democratic thing you can do.

00:20:34.000 And of course, they're jealous of that because they could never do that.

00:20:36.000 Joe Biden cannot turn his back on this vast NGO complex because to do so would be to imperil the thing that funds the entire Democratic apparatus.

00:20:48.000 So I think you're totally right about that.

00:20:50.000 So as you have composed and published the book, what have you learned about self-described conservatives?

00:20:57.000 I'll use that term that has surprised you?

00:21:00.000 You go on a lot of our shows, you spend the time around a lot of us.

00:21:03.000 Just what have you learned?

00:21:07.000 It's so funny because I remember I used to be woke.

00:21:11.000 I used to have the Trump derangement syndrome.

00:21:13.000 And I remember when I first started to see things differently, it was like early in the Trump years and I was doing a lot of reporting in the South.

00:21:20.000 And I was like, wait a minute, these people are not racist.

00:21:24.000 What's going on?

00:21:26.000 I've been hacked.

00:21:27.000 I've been lied to.

00:21:29.000 You know, I think the funniest thing I've learned, the most surprising thing is that I think it's really the way I would put it is the right is the center.

00:21:39.000 Like the people who used to be considered like right wing now often find themselves taking positions that represent the vast majority of Americans.

00:21:51.000 And I think that's true of Trump.

00:21:52.000 And I'll give you just a few examples.

00:21:55.000 You know, Trump is courting trade unions, right?

00:21:58.000 He wants the union vote, right?

00:22:00.000 What a wonderful thing for a Republican to be seeking.

00:22:03.000 You know, 15 weeks for abortion is Trump's position.

00:22:06.000 It's where the Democrats were in the 90s, right?

00:22:10.000 He's courting black voters.

00:22:13.000 You know, he's doing all this immigration control stuff.

00:22:16.000 Here's an interesting one for you, Charlie.

00:22:18.000 It used to be the Democrats who represented women's rights, right? 0.90

00:22:23.000 Who are the side that protected women?

00:22:25.000 And now they're the side representing transgender athletes, literally beating up women, you know, in sports, right? 1.00

00:22:34.000 It turns out that the conservatives are the ones who are out here trying to defend women, right? 0.63

00:22:39.000 Like it's just there's been this complete reversal as the Democrats shifted far to the left.

00:22:45.000 They left this huge space in the center that I think Trump identified.

00:22:50.000 But so, okay, this is something I wanted to ask you about because, okay, something that I struggle with is really saying I want to speak to every single person who's in that 70% in the center and keeping as wide a lane as possible so that I can speak to and for the people who don't get represented usually because of the elites on both sides.

00:23:12.000 So I guess my question to you is: do you find yourself ever sort of choosing between speaking to that broad consensus and then the desire to sort of own the libs who desperately need to be owned?

00:23:26.000 I totally agree.

00:23:27.000 But is that a tension in your mind?

00:23:29.000 No, I mean, again, you just tell the truth.

00:23:32.000 And what I find, I mean, last evening, for example, we had, you know, 1,300 students at the event.

00:23:38.000 I don't know if everyone agreed to everything I said, but people want plainly spoken truth, not pandering towards their sensitivities.

00:23:46.000 And I think Trump is a great example of this.

00:23:49.000 And even Obama, to be perfectly honest, back in 08 originally, which is authenticity, what is your vision for the country?

00:23:57.000 And if you can defend it rationally and you could defend it reasonably, I think that wins consensus.

00:24:04.000 But politics is now really about building your base, expanding beyond your base by micro coalitions.

00:24:13.000 And let's just be honest, the institutions have gone so far to the left.

00:24:17.000 They've gone so out of whack.

00:24:20.000 And my points, and people laugh when I say this, my points are actually super normal and centrist.

00:24:25.000 So, for example, it might look like I'm owning the lib last night.

00:24:29.000 You know what my position was?

00:24:30.000 That there's only male and female in the human species.

00:24:34.000 And he said that I'm a hater because I said there's only male and female in the human species.

00:24:40.000 It's not an opinion.

00:24:41.000 It's a biological fact, right?

00:24:43.000 And so, I mean, I have a book coming out called Right Wing Revolution, which actually my contention is that the only way to get back to a moderate and prudent center is through a right-wing revolution because we've been so yoked in the cultural Marxist direction.

00:24:59.000 And so that's kind of that's my response to it.

00:25:03.000 And I've also found, though, that even moderate young people and students, students especially, they need to hear the conservative position because they've never actually maybe even heard it.

00:25:13.000 They might have heard like a watered down, pandered to type opinion.

00:25:19.000 So the vast majority of my exchanges are really, you know, I think they're really moderate, to be perfectly honest.

00:25:26.000 I totally agree with everything you just said.

00:25:27.000 I also think most of your opinions are very moderate.

00:25:30.000 So here's an interesting thing: 70% of black Americans agree with your position on gender.

00:25:38.000 They totally reject the idea that a person can be born in the wrong gender.

00:25:42.000 I guess what I would want is for every single one of them to feel that they have an alternative.

00:25:49.000 And let's take, for example, the MLK thing, right?

00:25:52.000 I totally get where you were going with that.

00:25:55.000 But what if there is a black person who's out there and says, I am carefully paying attention to the GOP to the right to see, can I have a home there? 0.82

00:26:03.000 Because I'm not buying this trans stuff. 1.00

00:26:05.000 I don't want my kid exposed to it.

00:26:07.000 What if that could be a deal breaker for them?

00:26:09.000 Isn't it worth keeping people like that in mind?

00:26:12.000 What do you think?

00:26:13.000 I mean, you're going to win and lose people.

00:26:15.000 I don't look at it that way.

00:26:16.000 I mean, I'll be honest, I got more response from black Americans who loved this.

00:26:21.000 I mean, we have Blexit, which is the largest minority outreach program in the conservative movement, by far doing hundreds of urban and black outreach events.

00:26:30.000 And they loved it.

00:26:32.000 It's incredible.

00:26:33.000 So it was great.

00:26:34.000 So I guess my question for you is: do you still dialogue with people on the left?

00:26:34.000 Yeah.

00:26:40.000 Do you still dialogue with like traditional wokies? 1.00

00:26:42.000 What do they think of you now?

00:26:44.000 I still have about two or three.

00:26:47.000 Ironically, one is Palestinian. 0.54

00:26:49.000 We're very close.

00:26:50.000 And even though we really disagree on Israel and really disagree on everything else, a lot of them really hate me now.

00:26:58.000 I was denounced publicly by people who are very, very close friends, which is a very painful thing to happen.

00:27:04.000 And it just never ended.

00:27:06.000 At each stage, Charlie, I would be like, surely all the people who were my friends who are going to publicly denounce me have already done so.

00:27:12.000 But no, there was always another one.

00:27:15.000 So there are not many, I would say, but only by their choice.

00:27:19.000 Of course, as an opinion editor at a publication, Newsweek, where we run both sides, I have people who write for me who I respect very much, who are very much on the woke left.

00:27:28.000 But it's hard to keep them.

00:27:30.000 But even if you want them, because I like having people who I disagree with, it keeps me honest, but they won't stay.

00:27:36.000 You know, they don't like, like you said, Charlie, they don't like hearing the other side.

00:27:41.000 So, you know, you have a PhD in English, is that right?

00:27:44.000 So you've been around a lot of the wokeys. 1.00

00:27:47.000 Can you help me understand why the woke revolutionaries, they show no signs of stopping down despite the destruction that their worldview has brought to the homeland?

00:27:59.000 But don't you think that it's becoming clearer?

00:28:02.000 Like, I think it's no one's falling for it anymore, right?

00:28:05.000 Like, it does seem like you're right.

00:28:08.000 They, they are still invested in it, but the support for it is just like cratering, which, you know, by the grace of God, I have to say, because in 2020, I didn't see that ending so quickly.

00:28:19.000 They're deeply invested in it because they're invested in it economically.

00:28:23.000 So I see it going that way, that they are deeply invested in it economically.

00:28:28.000 It has placed them in the top 10% economically and had a ruinous effect on the working class.

00:28:34.000 And they then created an ideology of justice to justify their assent, basically.

00:28:40.000 And once you have a mortgage, it's much harder to then change your mind about something, especially if you know you'll never get a job if you do change your mind.

00:28:49.000 So it's this sort of amalgamation of getting high on their own virtue, being able to call their political opponents evil and racist, which they get high on that as well.

00:28:59.000 And then being completely economically invested in this worldview.

00:29:02.000 And like you pointed out, it's at the corporate level.

00:29:04.000 It's at the government level, right?

00:29:06.000 So many jobs are invested in this and the jobs pay so well.

00:29:11.000 I mean, $160,000, $200,000 a year for these DEI positions, right?

00:29:15.000 It's hard to turn your back on that.

00:29:17.000 That is true.

00:29:18.000 It is awfully lucrative to call people racist all day long and make sure people are using the right pronouns.

00:29:25.000 It is the new SS.

00:29:27.000 The new SS is well paid as HR department managers at Goldman Sachs.

00:29:33.000 The world is in flames and biodynamics is a complete and total disaster, but it can't and won't ruin my day.

00:29:39.000 Why?

00:29:40.000 Because I start my day with a hot America first cup of blackout coffee.

00:29:44.000 It's 100% America and 0% Grift. 0.93

00:29:47.000 Blackout Coffee is 100% committed to conservative values, from sourcing the beans to the roasting process, customer support and shipping.

00:29:54.000 They embody true American values and accept no compromise on taste or quality.

00:29:58.000 Look, you got to check out right now blackoutcoffee.com slash Charlie or use coupon code Charlie for 20% off your first order.

00:30:04.000 That is blackoutcoffee.com slash Charlie.

00:30:07.000 Be awake, not woke.

00:30:08.000 That's blackoutcoffee.com slash Charlie.

00:30:10.000 Check it out.

00:30:11.000 Promo code Charlie.

00:30:15.000 I want Bacha to hear this.

00:30:16.000 This is an example of me not pandering, but I think winning people over in a way.

00:30:21.000 Let's play cut 36 of a clip that is now going viral from last evening.

00:30:25.000 Can we play cut 36, please?

00:30:27.000 I have no problem if somebody has mental problems in their living room alone.

00:30:31.000 So be it. 0.96

00:30:32.000 Dress as Cinderella, dress as a wolf.

00:30:35.000 Not the problem.

00:30:36.000 The issue is when you storm the HR department and say, Sam used the wrong pronouns, and I think they should be disciplined for that.

00:30:43.000 And now we all have to use these pronoun markers in our bio to cater to a fringe minority that's so fragile, that is so weak that you can't possibly tolerate the idea of somebody mispronounning you or misgendering you.

00:30:55.000 Like grow up.

00:30:56.000 Like welcome to civil mature adult society.

00:30:59.000 Sometimes, how about you go be strong enough to go confront the other person and say, use my own pronouns.

00:31:05.000 But no, at the root of the LGBT movement, the T stands for tyranny. 1.00

00:31:12.000 And it's, you have to use my pronouns. 0.98

00:31:14.000 You have to allow me to teach your children transgender pornography. 1.00

00:31:18.000 You have to allow me to allow myself into your life. 0.99

00:31:23.000 It is not live and let live.

00:31:24.000 At the root of trans ideology is live and let us rule.

00:31:28.000 And we are currently living under the enemy occupation of the trans zealots.

00:31:33.000 That if you misgender somebody, you could lose your entire career. 0.97

00:31:37.000 That if you drive over a pride flag, it is a hate crime punished by the Department of Justice.

00:31:43.000 But if you burn an American flag, they call it free speech.

00:31:46.000 We have an entire month that is dedicated towards protecting LGBTQ pride.

00:31:51.000 It's not live and let live.

00:31:52.000 If it was, then they would do their own thing.

00:31:54.000 We'd do our own thing.

00:31:55.000 Instead, it is a grooming, proselytizing strategy of people that need to recruit because they can't reproduce.

00:32:03.000 Okay, I want to talk about how woke media is undermining democracy.

00:32:07.000 Bacha, tell us about your book there.

00:32:08.000 Absolutely.

00:32:09.000 First of all, I just want to say about the clip that you just played.

00:32:12.000 I don't know if your audience understands what you do because I could not do it and I admire it so much, but you go into hostile territory and just take on person after person after person.

00:32:25.000 And it's just so important and no one does it anymore.

00:32:29.000 People are too scared to do it.

00:32:31.000 They don't have the confidence and they don't believe that they can be convincing.

00:32:36.000 So, like, massive kudos to you.

00:32:38.000 Like, there's three places left in America where debates still exist, and you're like single-handedly holding one of those.

00:32:44.000 So, thank you.

00:32:45.000 That's very important.

00:32:45.000 I so, so admire that.

00:32:47.000 And also, I totally agree with you.

00:32:48.000 The pronouns thing is not about dignity.

00:32:51.000 It's not about civil rights.

00:32:52.000 It's about power.

00:32:53.000 It's about children having power over their elders and being able to say, you used the wrong word.

00:32:59.000 I have the power.

00:33:00.000 And that is an abomination.

00:33:02.000 Children should not be allowed to yell at grown-ups.

00:33:04.000 When did we become a country?

00:33:06.000 We're like, that was basically like the bedrock of our, there's such a disgusting worship of the young happening on the left. 0.93

00:33:14.000 And I absolutely, it's so gross to me.

00:33:16.000 So thank you for pointing that out.

00:33:18.000 Nobody ever mentions that.

00:33:19.000 No, and by the way, that is a very good way to put it.

00:33:23.000 Another way to put it is they don't believe in childhood anymore.

00:33:26.000 If you look at, for example, they're indicting these kids in Massachusetts for their group text messages.

00:33:31.000 You can get surgery.

00:33:32.000 You could do it.

00:33:33.000 This idea of child innocence, they don't believe in the distinction of the adult-child distinction.

00:33:38.000 But please tell us about your book, Bacha.

00:33:40.000 In addition to Second Class, tell us about it.

00:33:41.000 We're running out of time.

00:33:43.000 Yes.

00:33:43.000 Thank you so much, Charlie.

00:33:44.000 My first book was called Bad News: How Woke Media is Undermining Democracy.

00:33:48.000 And it's a little bit of a prelude to Second Class.

00:33:51.000 Basically, what I found there was that the real divide in America is not between right versus left, it's between the working class and the elites.

00:33:58.000 Our media is terrible, not because it's leftist, although it is leftist, it's terrible because the vast majority of journalists today have a degree from an elite university.

00:34:07.000 And the number one thing they teach at those universities is to sneer at people who work with their hands for a living.

00:34:13.000 That explains everything about the media, and it explains why they're waging war on Donald Trump and trying to put him in prison because he speaks for the people who work with their hands for a living, for hardworking Americans who are just struggling to get the American dream.

00:34:26.000 Yeah, and I want to mention something you said earlier.

00:34:29.000 You said it was really refreshing to have conservatives speak against corporations.

00:34:33.000 Five or six years ago, I wouldn't have.

00:34:35.000 And Tucker was very important in my education on this.

00:34:37.000 But we as conservatives don't like consolidated unchecked power.

00:34:41.000 So we don't like big government or big Google.

00:34:43.000 And so it's consistent.

00:34:45.000 And so I guess the final question I have for you, Bacha, is what do you think is the way forward to build a multilingual, multiracial working class coalition to take back our country from the oligarchy that's currently terrorizing it?

00:35:05.000 The American working class is very united in its views on what it wants to see from a policy point of view.

00:35:14.000 Whether a working class person is a liberal or a conservative, they by and large want the same things.

00:35:19.000 So they really don't like welfare because they think it comes at their expense, but they also don't like corporations.

00:35:25.000 They want to see people siding with workers over corporations.

00:35:28.000 They want a total moratorium on immigration, but they want some sort of government-backed health care, which they don't see as welfare.

00:35:35.000 They hate that they feel they can't afford good health care.

00:35:40.000 They are anti-woke, which they think is deeply, deeply intolerant. 0.97

00:35:45.000 They're very worried about trans people, but they're pro-gay. 0.85

00:35:48.000 They say they would never get an abortion themselves, but they don't like abortion bans.

00:35:52.000 This is the key.

00:35:54.000 Any person who came out with this exact policy agenda would get an immediate 60% of the vote.

00:36:00.000 The problem is that one party talks about health care, but wants an open border.

00:36:04.000 The other party will never talk about health care, but is controlling the border.

00:36:07.000 So for working class people, there's no party for them, really.

00:36:10.000 Trump comes very, very close to being the perfect candidate.

00:36:13.000 And it's because he's a protectionist.

00:36:15.000 These people are socially conservative, but they want the government to protect their labor.

00:36:20.000 They want the dignity that comes with working hard and getting paid a fair wage.

00:36:25.000 Yes, and not being Russian serfs where you are constantly renting and controlled by the regime.

00:36:31.000 Bacha, great work.

00:36:32.000 Thank you so much.

00:36:33.000 Thank you, Charlie.

00:36:34.000 God bless you.

00:36:36.000 I love free thinkers.

00:36:37.000 You see, if people were like that, that might, oh, they might disagree on certain things, we'd be a fine country.

00:36:42.000 We'd be a great, we'd be fine.

00:36:43.000 That's how America used to be.

00:36:44.000 We need that country back.

00:36:46.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:36:47.000 Email us as alwaysfreedom at charliekirk.com.

00:36:49.000 Thanks so much for listening and God bless.

00:36:53.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - March 20, 2024

Leftist, Marxist...and Pro-MAGA?

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