The Charlie Kirk Show - Letter to the American Church with Eric Metaxas

00:00:00.000 Hey, everybody.

00:00:00.000 Today in the Charlie Kirk Show, Eric Metaxas joins us, who's the author of a great new book, Letter to the American Church.

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00:00:44.000 Freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:00:45.000 Buckle up, everybody.

00:00:46.000 Here we go.

00:00:47.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:49.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

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00:00:59.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:01:00.000 His spirit, his love of this country.

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00:01:29.000 Never heard of this guest before.

00:01:30.000 I'm told he's kind of a diva.

00:01:32.000 Eric Metaxas joins us now.

00:01:33.000 Eric, how are you doing?

00:01:37.000 I'm doing great because you exist, my friend.

00:01:42.000 You are someone that gives me hope.

00:01:44.000 There are not that many out there.

00:01:46.000 And I think those of us who have a voice need to use it for God's purposes, for the purposes of liberty.

00:01:53.000 So anytime I get to talk to you, I'm doing all right.

00:01:56.000 And I am so happy that you're the father of a beautiful girl.

00:02:00.000 I can't even believe it, Charlie.

00:02:01.000 It's just like, weren't you just at a grade school yourself?

00:02:05.000 That's right.

00:02:06.000 Not that long ago.

00:02:07.000 Well, thank you, Eric.

00:02:08.000 That touches me.

00:02:09.000 You have a new book out, which I want to talk about, Letter to the American Church, which reminds me of kind of the church needs to push back against tyranny.

00:02:17.000 The church needs to push back against all this despotism.

00:02:21.000 And to kind of get us ready for that, let's play cut 40 of refusing to play along.

00:02:26.000 You're checked in.

00:02:27.000 Thank you.

00:02:28.000 Here's your AIDS ring. 0.61

00:02:28.000 No thanks. 0.61

00:02:29.000 You don't want to wear an AIDS ribbon? 0.92

00:02:31.000 No, no.

00:02:32.000 But you have to wear an AIDS ribbon.

00:02:33.000 I have to.

00:02:34.000 Yes.

00:02:35.000 See, that's why I don't want to.

00:02:35.000 Yeah.

00:02:36.000 But everyone wears the ribbon.

00:02:38.000 You must wear the ribbon.

00:02:41.000 What you are. 0.97

00:02:42.000 You're a ribbon bully. 0.99

00:02:43.000 Hey, where's your ribbon? 0.92

00:02:44.000 Oh, I don't wear the ribbon.

00:02:46.000 You don't wear the ribbon?

00:02:47.000 Aren't you against AIDS?

00:02:48.000 Yeah, I'm against AIDS.

00:02:50.000 But I'm walking, aren't I?

00:02:52.000 I just don't wear the ribbon.

00:02:53.000 Who do you think you are?

00:02:54.000 Put the ribbon on.

00:02:56.000 Hey, Cedric, Bob, this guy won't wear a ribbon.

00:03:00.000 Who?

00:03:01.000 Who doesn't want to wear the ribbon? 1.00

00:03:03.000 But I'm wearing the ribbon.

00:03:04.000 He's wearing the ribbon.

00:03:05.000 We are all wearing the ribbon.

00:03:07.000 So why aren't you going to wear the ribbon?

00:03:09.000 This is America.

00:03:10.000 I don't have to wear anything I don't want to wear.

00:03:12.000 Eric, I just love the idea that you were able to do it.

00:03:17.000 You and I are both huge Seinfeld fans.

00:03:19.000 And I just got to say that before the world went utterly insane, mainstream comedy made fun of this kind of fascist bullying that has now become the norm all across America.

00:03:33.000 But Charlie, you understand every book I write, I write for everyone except this book, Letter to the American Church.

00:03:40.000 I wrote specifically for people who call themselves Christians because there are people out there who are convinced that their Christian faith means they should not be political.

00:03:52.000 What that really means is that they should not be political along the lines of, you know, MAGA, America-loving, whatever it is.

00:04:02.000 And it is, this idea has infiltrated the church.

00:04:05.000 It is just monstrous.

00:04:08.000 I talk in the book about how, because, you know, we can joke about you're a ribbon bully, right? 1.00

00:04:14.000 But that's literally how it started in Germany.

00:04:17.000 That's why I found it perfect, though, is I found that as kind of a comedic intro, right?

00:04:21.000 Of that kind of political egalitarianism, right?

00:04:24.000 It is, it starts that way that says, if you don't do this, there's something wrong with you.

00:04:28.000 I mean, look, in my book, A Fish Out of Water, I talk about when I was at Yale, this happened to me at Yale.

00:04:33.000 I don't think I ever told you this, but we were supposed to wear a ribbon at graduation to show that we were against apartheid in South Africa.

00:04:42.000 We were supposed to wear another ribbon.

00:04:44.000 I don't remember the colors.

00:04:44.000 It's in the book.

00:04:45.000 I think it was like yellow and green was the other one or gold.

00:04:49.000 And if you didn't wear it, people looked at you funny.

00:04:51.000 Like, what's why aren't you wearing the ribbon?

00:04:53.000 And this was, that was 1984.

00:04:55.000 And I remember the time, like the sheep that I was, I just went along.

00:04:59.000 It's like, well, of course I'm going to wear the ribbon.

00:05:01.000 And you realize that's how it starts.

00:05:03.000 And we are now in a place in America where, except for a few places like this program or my program, there are people going along with things.

00:05:11.000 And a lot of these people are going to churches where the pastors are being utterly silent on these issues that concern every American that concern the future of America.

00:05:22.000 And I wrote the book to try to reach those pastors that are being silent, to try to reach those Christians that are going to those churches or that are theologically confused as though this is the Christian thing to do.

00:05:33.000 This is not the Christian thing to do. 1.00

00:05:35.000 This is the evil thing to do.

00:05:37.000 But if you wrap it in some kind of fake theology, a lot of people will go along with it.

00:05:42.000 And again, the point is, this is what happened in Germany.

00:05:44.000 The church was persuaded to be silent and people went along with it, went along with it.

00:05:49.000 Bonhoeffer did what he could.

00:05:51.000 People really refused to hear him.

00:05:53.000 Oh, he's a hothead.

00:05:54.000 We're just going to go Romans 13, Romans 13.

00:05:56.000 We're not going to mention this stuff.

00:05:57.000 We know what happened in Germany.

00:05:59.000 It is a nightmare beyond anything we could imagine, but it actually happened.

00:06:04.000 And my thesis is that it is precisely what is happening in America today because of the silence of the church.

00:06:11.000 And so the book is called Letter to the American Church.

00:06:14.000 Everyone should pick up a copy.

00:06:15.000 It's a very important book.

00:06:16.000 And so you ask the question here: can it really be God's will that his children be silent at a time like this?

00:06:24.000 Decrying the cowardice that masquerades as godly meekness.

00:06:27.000 Eric Metaxas summons the church to battle.

00:06:30.000 Why is this even a question, Eric?

00:06:32.000 How is it possible that people that are filled with faith even struggle with this question?

00:06:36.000 Well, listen, Charlie, the problem is we're dealing with human beings, right?

00:06:41.000 That's always the problem.

00:06:43.000 And people, I can look at my own life, right?

00:06:47.000 When I was in my early 20s, I just mentioned it.

00:06:49.000 When I was at Yale, I went with the flow.

00:06:52.000 I didn't want to stick out.

00:06:53.000 I didn't want people to look at me and say, like, that guy's a fascist.

00:06:55.000 That guy's this.

00:06:57.000 I didn't know who I was.

00:06:58.000 I didn't have the confidence to say, no, that's wrong.

00:07:02.000 And there are many people in American life today.

00:07:04.000 There are many people in American churches today.

00:07:07.000 They're just like that.

00:07:08.000 They don't really know what to think.

00:07:09.000 They're afraid to say anything.

00:07:11.000 And so they're going along.

00:07:12.000 And I'm here to say, ladies and gentlemen, this happened precisely as it is happening now in Germany.

00:07:21.000 I'm not exaggerating the parallel.

00:07:23.000 It is exactly what happened.

00:07:24.000 Yeah, but it was.

00:07:25.000 Let me say, I don't, did you find that persuasive?

00:07:28.000 I'm just, I'm sorry to interrupt you because some pastors roll their eyes every time we mention Germany, but it's literally true. 1.00

00:07:33.000 Well, what I'm trying to say is I believe that there are some who can be reached.

00:07:38.000 I think there are some who couldn't care less.

00:07:40.000 They really couldn't care less.

00:07:42.000 They've inured themselves to anything unpleasant.

00:07:44.000 But the reason I wrote the book and the way I wrote it is to reach those who might be persuaded, who are confused enough to say, well, I'll see what he has to say.

00:07:53.000 And the reason I wrote it, Charlie, is because there are other people writing books saying exactly the opposite.

00:07:58.000 And it's astonishing to me that they are saying the church shouldn't be political.

00:08:03.000 I mean, just to get specific, it's a misunderstanding of what faith is.

00:08:07.000 It's a misunderstanding of what Romans 13 says about how we're to obey the governing authorities.

00:08:11.000 There are various misunderstandings that are, here's the key, the precisely the same misunderstandings of the German church in the early 30s.

00:08:20.000 So you have to forget about what happened for a second in Germany, and you have to go back to where it was before they knew this could ever happen.

00:08:29.000 Good people, Christians, pastors who love God, whatever, were persuaded that silence was the right godly option.

00:08:38.000 And the reasons they were persuaded that are the same reasons people are persuaded today.

00:08:43.000 When you see those parallels, that's when you'll think, oh, oh, well, then I guess it could be happening right now.

00:08:50.000 So you have to see what the parallels are.

00:08:51.000 So we're going to buy a bunch at TPSA Faith and we're going to distribute them.

00:08:54.000 We have to.

00:08:55.000 This is so important.

00:08:57.000 And, Eric, I mean, you've, you're, you're a bestseller after bestseller.

00:09:00.000 I mean, the amount of books you put out is unbelievable from the Bonhoeffer book, which obviously was the big home run.

00:09:06.000 But you wrote a great book on William Wilberforce.

00:09:08.000 You have everything you always wanted to know about God, the Jesus Edition.

00:09:13.000 You, of course, have seven men, seven more men, seven women, miracles, Martin Luther, you know, is atheism dead, fish out of water.

00:09:21.000 But you've said this book is very unique in that kind of canon of work.

00:09:26.000 Well, I hate to say it, but without any question, without any question, this is the most important book I've ever written.

00:09:33.000 It's probably the shortest.

00:09:35.000 And I wish I weren't right, but I think the message in this message, it is a clarion call.

00:09:41.000 I beg people who are still open-minded to see what I have to say because everything is at stake.

00:09:48.000 The nation is at stake.

00:09:49.000 Some people say, okay, I want to speak out, but what does that mean?

00:09:51.000 I mean, come on, it doesn't mean I have to be a Republican, does it?

00:09:54.000 And so that's the question, right?

00:09:55.000 And then I'm going to read some of the objections from people in institutional corporate Christianity that write these things comfortably smug as the evil unfolds again in front of our very eyes.

00:10:07.000 Only the church could rise up and stop this.

00:10:10.000 If the church does not rise up, it is all over.

00:10:12.000 It collapses from within.

00:10:14.000 And the book, the book is called Letter to the American Church.

00:10:18.000 You guys can find it at ericmetaxis.com.

00:10:20.000 That's probably the best way to just have people start, right, Eric?

00:10:23.000 EricMetaxis.com.

00:10:25.000 EricMetaxis.com, Letter to the American Church.

00:10:28.000 Very important.

00:10:28.000 I give Eric a very hard time and he gives me a hard time, but it's because we have such respect for each other.

00:10:34.000 And I could tell you, this is one of the most important books out there right now.

00:10:36.000 And it is rage-inducing when I see churches that have been so blessed with big buildings and huge staffs and they say, well, we don't do that around here.

00:10:43.000 We're just going to let the society decay and the civilization crumble.

00:10:46.000 We're not going to do anything.

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00:11:48.000 Hey, Eric, uh, what do they call a quarter pounder in France?

00:11:53.000 Uh, oh, oh, it's like uh deluxe or something, it's a royale with cheese, you know, because they're on the metric system.

00:12:04.000 All right, so uh, we have I'm here, I'm here till for somebody who's on the spectrum, you seem very normal.

00:12:12.000 I just want you to know that, yes, missed an interval of um intervention this morning.

00:12:17.000 You were challenging me before that whenever you bring up the Nazis, people go, Oh, yeah, the Nazis, Nazis.

00:12:23.000 Look, they're always going to be people, and it's useless to try to argue with them.

00:12:28.000 They're not interested in hearing the truth. 0.67

00:12:31.000 They want to use a label to shut you up, they'll call you a white supremacist or a Christian nationalist or a racist, or you're being political. 0.91

00:12:39.000 They just want to use words to shut you up.

00:12:41.000 But if there's anyone interested in the truth, I just turned to the page in my new book, Letter to the American Church, where Bonhoeffer himself, it's amazing that he wrote these words.

00:12:51.000 He wrote, He says, He was so disgusted with the German church.

00:12:56.000 This is in the mid-30s already, that he said it is high time we broke with our theologically based restraint toward the state's actions, which after all is only fear.

00:13:10.000 He was calling out the German church, and he saw that they had these theological reasons for saying nothing while the world is going to hell, while Jews are being rounded up. 0.70

00:13:21.000 And they say, Well, sort of not my problem.

00:13:23.000 I'm just going to go into my church and worship my God and preach my weak little gospel.

00:13:28.000 And I have to say, every one of the parallels is the same today.

00:13:33.000 Charlie, it's astonishing and it is horrifying to hear people say exactly what German Christians said then because we know the results. 0.95

00:13:42.000 We know what happened in Germany.

00:13:44.000 We're not making it up.

00:13:45.000 It's not what could happen.

00:13:47.000 And it's not just Germany, it's the Soviet Union, right?

00:13:50.000 I mean, so the church in the Soviet Union was paid off.

00:13:52.000 It was a little bit different, but it was very similar.

00:13:55.000 Well, here's the thing: of course, it's similar, but it's only because I know in detail the German story, because my family lived the German story, and because I spent a lot of time researching that, that I know that what happened is so dramatically similar because Germany was a Christian nation.

00:14:14.000 The church in Germany absolutely had the power to push back against the Nazis.

00:14:20.000 That's what people need to know.

00:14:22.000 They had the power, they refused to use it.

00:14:25.000 They said, But we don't do that, we just want to preach the gospel.

00:14:28.000 We don't want to get in trouble.

00:14:29.000 What do we need to do?

00:14:30.000 Hang out a swastika flag, say, tell me what to do so I don't get in trouble. 0.98

00:14:35.000 In other words, they were not concerned with being heroic, standing for God and God's truth for the sake, not just of their fellow Germans, but for the Jews in Germany and the Jews.

00:14:46.000 They didn't care.

00:14:47.000 They just wanted to know how do I keep doing business as usual?

00:14:50.000 How do I keep my church so that we don't lose any money?

00:14:54.000 We don't start to bleed parishioners because we did a big campaign and we need to make the money up and we want to keep it.

00:15:02.000 They basically made the bargain with the devil that we will be silent on these issues if you just leave us alone.

00:15:08.000 And what happened is history.

00:15:11.000 And I am making the claim, and I think backing it up with facts, that it is precisely what is happening in America today.

00:15:18.000 The silence of the church in America today, the same reasons, the same result.

00:15:22.000 It is going to be the same result if we don't wake up.

00:15:24.000 And again, I wrote the book to reach those who might be reached, those who need a little encouragement.

00:15:30.000 Like, no, it is God's will that you speak up.

00:15:32.000 This is not just, you know, some conservative talking point.

00:15:35.000 This is what God is trying to say.

00:15:38.000 Everybody, email us your thoughts, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:15:40.000 Eric, we're getting a lot of emails in, and I'm going to ask you to some of these devils advocate.

00:15:43.000 And then I've actually pulled some quotes from some people that say the church should be less political and all that.

00:15:48.000 And I want to just kind of work through it because our audience hears all this.

00:15:51.000 In fact, someone just said right here, Charlie, I need you to help me out.

00:15:54.000 My pastor does not believe in being vocal.

00:15:57.000 I go to a biblical church.

00:15:58.000 They teach verse by verse, but very little brought up about current events.

00:16:02.000 So even though we have good theology and are biblically faithful, should I expect more?

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00:17:31.000 Fabulous book, Letter to the American Church.

00:17:33.000 All kidding aside, everyone should go pick up a copy.

00:17:36.000 And by the way, here's the call to action.

00:17:37.000 Everyone, go buy a couple copies and give one to your pastor.

00:17:42.000 Give one to your entire elder board.

00:17:44.000 Eric, this is written persuasively.

00:17:47.000 Walk us through that.

00:17:48.000 The style of what you write, you're trying to get people to do something.

00:17:52.000 Well, I'm trying to get people to see that this is not really complicated.

00:17:58.000 In other words, there is no doubt that when we see evil, we in the church are obliged by God to speak against it, to work against it, to do what we can.

00:18:10.000 There's a false message out there that we're hearing a lot, that we're only supposed to quote unquote preach the gospel, only stick to gospel-related issues.

00:18:20.000 And this is sophistry.

00:18:21.000 This is, it's, it's devilish sophistry because think about this.

00:18:26.000 They told Wilberforce to shut up.

00:18:29.000 We don't care about the slave trade. 0.89

00:18:32.000 We don't care about slavery.

00:18:33.000 And stick to the gospel.

00:18:35.000 Let's just focus on that.

00:18:37.000 And we may have someone in our audience who owns slaves or is making a ton of money off the slave trade.

00:18:42.000 We don't want to offend them.

00:18:43.000 And I think to myself, there's nothing new under the sun.

00:18:46.000 People today, many progressive Christians or many moderate Christians would say, oh, I agree with Wilberforce.

00:18:53.000 Of course.

00:18:53.000 It's obvious that that's, I have to speak up against slavery.

00:18:56.000 I don't want to be a racist.

00:18:57.000 It's super easy to celebrate the fruit of a tough struggle, but when you're in the struggle, Christians run away. 1.00

00:19:03.000 I mean, well, that's the point is that everyone today says, I would have spoken up if I was in Wilberforce's day.

00:19:09.000 I would have spoken up if I was in Bonhoeffer's day.

00:19:12.000 It's total baloney unless you're speaking up now.

00:19:16.000 And the issues are the same because when you see evil happening, we don't even, we hardly know where to start when we talk about evil happening.

00:19:25.000 Five million strangers coming across our border.

00:19:29.000 We don't know what's happening in the country.

00:19:31.000 We don't know who's leading the country.

00:19:33.000 We have cultural Marxism infiltrating our schools, infiltrating the culture.

00:19:39.000 If the church of Jesus Christ doesn't speak against these evils, God will judge us.

00:19:46.000 We don't get off the hook.

00:19:48.000 He doesn't say, well, you're a nice religious person.

00:19:50.000 He condemns us.

00:19:52.000 In the book, I actually talk about how that safe religious path, it's like when the Gestapo comes to your door and they say, are you hiding a Jew in the basement?

00:20:01.000 And you say, well, I don't want to lie because then I might get in trouble with this, you know, fake God that I claim to worship.

00:20:08.000 And so I'm just going to say, yes, I'm hiding a Jew. 1.00

00:20:11.000 Come help yourself and murder the Jew. 1.00

00:20:13.000 As though God is that kind of a God, that he just wants us to be fussy, religious, not to care about what his heart cares about. 0.99

00:20:21.000 When we see people struggling, when you see, let's talk about communities of color.

00:20:26.000 If you care about them, you will speak against Black Lives Matter, this organization, critical race theory. 0.91

00:20:32.000 Why?

00:20:33.000 Because you love those people and you don't want them to be deceived by this Marxist atheist ideology, which is crushing that community.

00:20:41.000 But a lot of white evangelicals say, well, who am I to even talk about that?

00:20:45.000 What do I know?

00:20:46.000 And they'll say the same thing about transgender.

00:20:48.000 I haven't lived through that.

00:20:50.000 You know, I have a neighbor whose daughter is going through that.

00:20:52.000 That is exactly why God commands you to speak up, because truth is truth and because it will bless those people, not because it will hurt those people.

00:21:01.000 It will bless those people.

00:21:02.000 So if you're going to a church that shrinks from talking about these things, first of all, I would say consider finding another church.

00:21:08.000 But if your pastor is reasonable, I've written this book for reasonable people that they would read it and say, you know what?

00:21:16.000 I didn't know that.

00:21:17.000 I've never heard that because they're hearing the blather that you're getting from places like Christianity today or whatever it is, which is frankly deceiving millions.

00:21:27.000 It is, it's a nightmare, Charlie.

00:21:28.000 It's an absolute nightmare.

00:21:30.000 The church, the silence of the American church is the reason we are where we are in America today.

00:21:37.000 I say this as a Christian.

00:21:39.000 I lay the blame of where we are in this nation at the foot of the church in America. 0.92

00:21:46.000 If the church were vocal on these issues and brave and understood our duty to speak truth and to be a voice for the voiceless and to be the conscience of the nation, if we lived that out fearlessly as God commands us to do, we would not have an America that's going down the tubes.

00:22:03.000 We wouldn't be in this battle.

00:22:04.000 So some people will say, got it, Eric, we got to do something.

00:22:07.000 But what to do?

00:22:08.000 Because the Republican Party's awful and we obviously don't like the Democrats.

00:22:12.000 And so they kind of take the third path, right?

00:22:15.000 So what is it to do?

00:22:16.000 What is the call to action then, Eric?

00:22:18.000 Because some pastors would say, you know, the Christian community can't possibly get behind a political party.

00:22:25.000 Well, first of all, that is nonsense. 0.78

00:22:27.000 Like that's absolute nonsense.

00:22:28.000 First of all, actually, let's go backwards.

00:22:30.000 Who cares about political parties? 0.99

00:22:32.000 There are plenty Republicans that are utterly useless. 1.00

00:22:36.000 They are more despicable to me than Democrats. 1.00

00:22:40.000 They are useless. 1.00

00:22:41.000 They're gutlets and gutless. 1.00

00:22:43.000 And they are the reason we are here.

00:22:46.000 They did not stand up to China when they might have. 0.97

00:22:49.000 They did not stand up.

00:22:50.000 They don't care about anything.

00:22:51.000 They care about power just like their Democratic colleagues care about power.

00:22:55.000 So this is not a party issue.

00:22:57.000 This is an issue of what is right, what is true.

00:23:00.000 And if you say, oh, they're all corrupt, that level of cynicism, folks, is not God.

00:23:07.000 Okay.

00:23:07.000 If you do not do what you can, just because the party and politics is messy and whatever, when you start playing that game, you're playing into the enemy's hands.

00:23:18.000 You say, you know what?

00:23:19.000 Why should I fight?

00:23:20.000 It's all corrupt.

00:23:22.000 It's all over.

00:23:23.000 We're being judged.

00:23:24.000 Who cares?

00:23:24.000 Any kind of cynicism like that, it's the opposite of what God calls us to fight.

00:23:28.000 Bonhoeffer was willing to fight to the end.

00:23:31.000 He went to his death knowing that, first of all, as an actual Christian, he knew something that Christians are supposed to know.

00:23:40.000 He knew that Jesus had defeated death.

00:23:42.000 That's not a nice idea.

00:23:43.000 It's not a fairy tale.

00:23:44.000 And if you believe that, you don't fear death.

00:23:46.000 And you fight for what is right and true.

00:23:49.000 And he tried to get the church to hear what he's saying.

00:23:52.000 And they said, not yet, not yet.

00:23:53.000 You know what?

00:23:55.000 We just want to stay out of trouble.

00:23:56.000 We want to keep moving along, moving along.

00:23:58.000 It's preposterous.

00:24:00.000 There are a hundred ways that we can do something about this.

00:24:04.000 And when people say, like, I'm afraid of being allied to a political party, where do you draw that line?

00:24:10.000 Are you afraid of being called a Satanist?

00:24:13.000 Like, what label do people throw at you to shut you up?

00:24:16.000 And the fact of the matter is that if that's all people need to do, if that's all evil needs to do, is to get you to say, oh my goodness, I can't, I don't want to sound like I'm for one political party.

00:24:26.000 If one political party is for the butchering of children, if one political party has opened the door to godless cultural Marxism and to transgender and to bringing incredibly perverse ideas to little children in school, if you don't have the guts to speak against this, it is obvious you don't believe what you say you believe as a Christian. 0.65

00:24:48.000 If you really believe what the Bible says and the truth of God, you're not going to worry so much about what people say about you.

00:24:54.000 You're going to worry about the people who are suffering, just as Wilberforce cared about the African slaves. 0.87

00:24:58.000 And so he spoke out despite people coming after him.

00:25:01.000 If you love people, you're going to speak out against this.

00:25:04.000 And people are more worried about making a little mistake or saying something or being accused of something than they're worried about people suffering horrors, which is exactly what is happening now and will continue to happen if the church continues to remain silent.

00:25:18.000 It's not biblical.

00:25:19.000 It's not God's will.

00:25:21.000 And, you know, I'm going to shout this from the rooftops with the idea that there are some who can be persuaded.

00:25:27.000 And if it's enough, we don't need everyone, but we need more people to know: wait a minute, our silence is sinful.

00:25:34.000 God will not hold us guiltless.

00:25:36.000 Silence in the face of evil is itself evil.

00:25:39.000 These are facts.

00:25:40.000 We've seen what happens.

00:25:41.000 The question is, will we make exactly the same mistake?

00:25:44.000 We are currently making exactly the same mistake as the German church made back then, and we saw how it turned out. 0.99

00:25:51.000 So I'm just going to read from one of your detractors.

00:25:54.000 I'm not going to say his name because I actually have a meeting upcoming with him, but you'll be able to figure it out.

00:26:00.000 And so there's actually a book that is completely the opposite that's just been published on this.

00:26:05.000 Okay.

00:26:05.000 Completely the opposite.

00:26:06.000 You might be able to guess who this is, which is we must be very careful when it comes to blurring the distinctions between the kingdom of God and any nation or party on earth.

00:26:16.000 The one is perfect and pure-headed by God.

00:26:18.000 All other kingdoms and nations and organizations and parties and movements are flawed and mixed at best.

00:26:23.000 Continues by saying the following.

00:26:26.000 This means as God's people living in the world, we're called to set a standard of morality and equity, which is weird.

00:26:31.000 I can't believe equity would be used.

00:26:32.000 That's not a biblical term.

00:26:34.000 In compassion and kindness and justice.

00:26:37.000 Finally, saying, are we better known for our devotion to Jesus or for our political affiliation?

00:26:42.000 Have we set the cross infinitely higher than the flag?

00:26:45.000 Do we look more like our Lord or our political leaders?

00:26:48.000 Are we living our lives here in the light of eternity than bringing those eternal realities to bear to this world?

00:26:53.000 Are we more passionate about the Bible than we are about party platforms?

00:26:56.000 Eric. 0.77

00:26:58.000 That's a load of nonsense.

00:27:00.000 I don't know who wrote that, but I will tell you this. 0.64

00:27:02.000 You can say what is true.

00:27:05.000 And whoever wrote that, what they're saying is true. 0.90

00:27:08.000 But to say it in the context of where we are now in America makes it absolute nonsense.

00:27:14.000 When you say, if somebody is, you know, shooting bullets at your head and you say, listen, we need to get in the word of God.

00:27:21.000 Let's pray.

00:27:23.000 Anybody with a brain says, what are you talking about? 1.00

00:27:25.000 Like they're shooting bullets at your head. 0.99

00:27:26.000 One of them just missed you.

00:27:28.000 Do you understand where you are?

00:27:29.000 Do you understand what is happening?

00:27:31.000 So when you say, let us pray, hard to argue with that. 1.00

00:27:33.000 But right now, you're going to be shot in the head. 1.00

00:27:36.000 That girl across the street is about to be raped. 1.00

00:27:39.000 You want to go have a quiet time or do you want to save her from being raped? 0.98

00:27:43.000 The idea that we only have to do one thing and that we're not called to do whatever we can do is sophistry, Charlie. 0.57

00:27:53.000 This is sophistry.

00:27:54.000 And the voices that are promoting those views, I know they have no idea what they're doing.

00:28:00.000 They think they're doing God's will.

00:28:02.000 But Bonhoeffer faced precisely the same thing.

00:28:05.000 In his day, good pastors said exactly these things.

00:28:10.000 They couldn't discern the times.

00:28:11.000 Why did Bonhoeffer discern the times?

00:28:14.000 Why did some understand what is happening and know we need to act against the evil?

00:28:19.000 And why did others say, but that's political?

00:28:22.000 Romans 13 says clearly we're supposed to obey the governing authorities as though that's all the Bible has to say.

00:28:29.000 It's the first century.

00:28:30.000 Let me say this.

00:28:31.000 Who are the governing authorities today?

00:28:32.000 We the people.

00:28:33.000 I think it's we the people.

00:28:34.000 Well, that's what the documents are.

00:28:35.000 Think of that.

00:28:36.000 We are the sovereign.

00:28:36.000 Think of that idea.

00:28:38.000 And we are the sovereign.

00:28:40.000 That's right.

00:28:41.000 We are the sovereign in the country.

00:28:42.000 That's very important.

00:28:44.000 Well, look, people who are saying things like what you just read, this is the reason it becomes diabolical is because a lot of people would say, well, yeah, that sounds right.

00:28:54.000 Well, yeah, on one level, it's right.

00:28:56.000 But Satan quotes scripture to Jesus.

00:29:00.000 So is what he's saying true?

00:29:03.000 We have to be a little bit discerning here.

00:29:05.000 You can say things that are true in a spirit of falsehood.

00:29:10.000 You can use good ideas to deceive people.

00:29:15.000 And so people are getting on the bandwagon that I shouldn't get political.

00:29:19.000 I just want to say God is going to judge us for our silence when we see what is happening.

00:29:24.000 And again, the idea is you set up a straw man and you say that there are these people that all they care about, you know, they're chest-banging MAGA maniacs.

00:29:32.000 They've made an idol of politics.

00:29:34.000 As a Christian, I'm not interested in making an idol of politics.

00:29:37.000 As much as I love Donald Trump or anybody who's being brave, I don't make an idol of them.

00:29:43.000 I worship Jesus, but it doesn't mean that I sometimes don't need to be political or don't need to oppose evil.

00:29:52.000 There are times when politics become so clear.

00:29:55.000 We didn't used to be in this world, you know, in the 1980s or whatever, but we're living in a time when not to be somewhat political tells you everything.

00:30:02.000 What would the ideal action points be then for a pastor or a church?

00:30:08.000 We never actually asked for this guy's answer to this guy's question.

00:30:11.000 Said, okay, our church is biblically based, but we don't talk about current events.

00:30:14.000 What does it look like?

00:30:15.000 What does success look like?

00:30:16.000 What pastors can we point to that are doing this right?

00:30:18.000 Obviously, Rob McCoy, David Engelhart, Jack Hibbs, Pastor Juergen, Angel and Luke Barnett, you know, Steve Smotherman off the top of my head.

00:30:26.000 This brings me to the title of one of the chapters in this book, Letter to the American Church.

00:30:31.000 The title is of the chapter is the idol of evangelism.

00:30:37.000 There are people who are so focused on the idea of evangelism that they have been silenced on anything that might conceivably push someone away.

00:30:50.000 And I say this because there's a great irony, Charlie.

00:30:53.000 If you're worried about losing people by bringing up important issues, like if you're against the slave trade or you're against Nazis, you know, butchering Jews or you're against the unborn being ripped apart, you say, well, we don't want to talk about these unpleasant things.

00:31:09.000 We're just going to preach the gospel.

00:31:11.000 Ironically, the people who are doing that in those churches, the numbers are fading.

00:31:17.000 People are saying, things are too crazy for me to waste a couple of hours on Sunday morning listening to nothing.

00:31:23.000 I need answers.

00:31:24.000 My children are being challenged in school with insane ideas.

00:31:29.000 I'm being challenged everywhere I look.

00:31:31.000 I have family members suffering.

00:31:33.000 I want somebody who's bold and courageous.

00:31:36.000 And those pastors who are being bold and courageous, who are not afraid to talk about something that might be called political or any of these controversial issues, those churches are increasing in number.

00:31:49.000 And there are tons of non-believers, just patriots, good people, who are saying that kind of church, that's what I've been looking for all my life.

00:31:56.000 I've been disgusted with the Namby-Pamby, religious, effeminate kind of Christianity that I'm a guy and I'm trying to live my life. 0.99

00:32:04.000 They tend to be attracted to the churches that you just mentioned, all those pastors.

00:32:10.000 And I find this very ironic because it is precisely because a lot of these pastors are afraid of losing people that they've silenced themselves on these issues.

00:32:19.000 And so part of what I'm trying to do is to help people understand that this idea of preaching the gospel or evangelism, there's more to being a Christian than that.

00:32:28.000 We are supposed to be a voice for the voiceless.

00:32:31.000 We're supposed to speak the truth.

00:32:32.000 You're doing God's will when you speak the truth.

00:32:36.000 And I just don't think people have the theological background.

00:32:40.000 They've gotten confused.

00:32:41.000 They're listening to clichés like the one that you just read out of that book.

00:32:45.000 And they're just being told, oh, yeah, if I say anything political, I'm making an idol of politics.

00:32:51.000 And that's bad.

00:32:53.000 We've got to think a little bit more deeply than that.

00:32:55.000 Those who've dared to do that have seen their numbers explode.

00:32:58.000 And you want to talk about evangelism?

00:33:00.000 People are finding faith in those churches.

00:33:03.000 That's what I find fascinating: the irony of this whole thing.

00:33:07.000 Yeah, they're finding faith in amazing and record numbers.

00:33:10.000 The book is the letter to the American Church.

00:33:12.000 Eric, anything on the book?

00:33:13.000 We haven't yet had a chance to talk about how people can find it.

00:33:17.000 Kind of closing thoughts here.

00:33:18.000 Well, I really want to say, I mean, first of all, I hope everybody will just go to my website and you can find everything there.

00:33:24.000 You can sign up for my newsletter because I'm doing all kinds of interviews on these subjects, ericmetaxis.com, ericmetaxis.com.

00:33:30.000 But really, what it boils down to is that I believe God is giving us an opportunity to avoid total disaster.

00:33:40.000 This is to the church, right?

00:33:42.000 That if the church will be vocal, we will avoid the horrors that we deserve for our silence.

00:33:48.000 But if we don't, I say this prophetically because I have done the math, I have looked at the numbers.

00:33:55.000 We are going to lose our liberty.

00:33:57.000 Those who are preaching in churches will lose the ability to preach even their little gospel that they are willing to talk about now because they're not able to speak about because they don't dare speak about these other things.

00:34:11.000 Even that will be taken away from them.

00:34:13.000 And that this is all sound and biblical.

00:34:17.000 Otherwise, I wouldn't say this is not political.

00:34:19.000 This is just truth.

00:34:21.000 And when you're talking about truth, it's attractive to people.

00:34:24.000 And we're living in a nation right now where there has never, never, never been more of a hunger for truth and courage.

00:34:30.000 And if the church will show it, people will flock to the church by God's grace.

00:34:34.000 Letter to the American church, Eric Metaxas, honored as always.

00:34:38.000 I finally learned who you were before the show.

00:34:40.000 I said, who is this guy?

00:34:41.000 Why is he on earth?

00:34:42.000 He really impressed me.

00:34:43.000 He's got his act together, this guy.

00:34:45.000 I'll tell you what, buy a couple of his books, maybe go and hear him speak.

00:34:49.000 We'll keep him around.

00:34:51.000 But all kidding aside, I'll tell you right now, Eric is one of the most courageous people on the planet.

00:34:55.000 When you are in the foxhole, you want Metaxas next to you, not Andy Stanley, not Rick Warren.

00:35:01.000 You want Eric Metaxas.

00:35:02.000 I mean that very sincerely.

00:35:04.000 Thank you, my friend.

00:35:05.000 Talk to you soon, Eric.

00:35:06.000 God bless.

00:35:10.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:35:11.000 Email me your thoughts as always.

00:35:12.000 Freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:35:14.000 Thanks so much for listening.

00:35:15.000 God bless.

00:35:20.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - September 21, 2022

Letter to the American Church with Eric Metaxas

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