The Charlie Kirk Show - Masks on Kids: Science or Abuse? A Debate with Dr. Rashad Richey

00:00:00.000 Today in the Charlie Kirk show, no advertisers.

00:00:00.000 Hey, everybody.

00:00:03.000 And it's a really special episode.

00:00:05.000 This was done by Turning Point USA Debate Night with Dr. Rashad Ritchie.

00:00:10.000 I debate a leftist.

00:00:10.000 He's a college professor.

00:00:12.000 He believes America is systemically racist.

00:00:14.000 He is in favor of masking children.

00:00:16.000 And I do want to say, he was a decent man and a good man just in how he interacted with us and our staff.

00:00:23.000 This is a debate.

00:00:24.000 So it starts like a debate, very structured, and then it kind of goes into an unfiltered part of it.

00:00:29.000 It remains very cordial throughout.

00:00:32.000 There's some parts where I think I really made some salient points.

00:00:35.000 So make sure you listen to the whole thing through.

00:00:37.000 And I would just love your thoughts, freedom at charliekirk.com, about this conversation.

00:00:42.000 And we're going to be doing a lot of these debates.

00:00:44.000 In fact, we have a whole series of debates coming up.

00:00:46.000 And I hope that they're helpful for you to be able to kind of see where the other side comes from and see how the best respond to it.

00:00:52.000 Because I know so many of you get into debates in your life.

00:00:55.000 So maybe they will be helpful for you.

00:00:58.000 If you like this content and you want to see more of it, no advertisers, remember, it's charliekirk.com/slash support.

00:01:03.000 Or if you want to support the organization that puts on this piece of product that we are re-airing here on this program, it's tpusa.com.

00:01:11.000 Start a high school chapter, start a college chapter.

00:01:13.000 I sit down with a college professor to debate critical race theory, wokeism, masking children, and what do we do when you have two different studies where he says, I have a study that says masks work, and I have one that says the opposite.

00:01:27.000 What do we do about that?

00:01:29.000 How do we govern ourselves when you have study disagreement?

00:01:33.000 This conversation with a decent man and a good man who I fundamentally disagree with in almost everything, where he says explicitly America is systemically racist in this podcast.

00:01:43.000 He goes after the founders.

00:01:44.000 He goes after people I care a lot about.

00:01:47.000 And we push back, I think, respectfully, but effectively.

00:01:51.000 Share this episode with your friends.

00:01:53.000 Even if you have leftist friends, I think it will illuminate the topics that matter the most in our country right now.

00:01:59.000 Again, it's charliekirk.com slash support.

00:02:02.000 Email us your thoughts, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:02:04.000 I love your feedback from these episodes.

00:02:07.000 Advertiser-free, you're going to want to listen to this whole thing through.

00:02:10.000 Buckle up. 0.96

00:02:11.000 Here we go.

00:02:12.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:02:14.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

00:02:16.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

00:02:20.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:02:23.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:02:24.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:02:25.000 His spirit, his love of this country.

00:02:27.000 He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created.

00:02:32.000 Turning point USA. 0.65

00:02:33.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

00:02:42.000 That's why we are here.

00:02:46.000 Welcome to Debate Night here at Turning Point USA Headquarters.

00:02:49.000 Honored to have with us today Dr. Richie, a very well-known radio talk show host in Atlanta, also a college professor, amongst many other things I'm sure I'm forgetting.

00:02:58.000 And today we're going to be talking about COVID mandates, schools, masks, and so much more.

00:03:03.000 The way that this conversation will go is Dr. Richie will begin with some thoughts for two minutes uninterrupted.

00:03:09.000 I will respond with two minutes uninterrupted and we'll go back and forth in that format for about a minute each.

00:03:14.000 And we'll take about a 10-second break or a little bit break.

00:03:17.000 And then we'll just kind of have at it.

00:03:19.000 And so, Dr. Richie, thank you for being here.

00:03:22.000 And the floor is yours.

00:03:24.000 You're about to be in trouble, Charlie.

00:03:26.000 All right.

00:03:27.000 Here's the thing: mask mandates in schools are 100% appropriate.

00:03:31.000 And here's why.

00:03:32.000 First of all, the vast majority of American voters actually support mask mandates for school teachers and for those who are inside of the school system.

00:03:41.000 But let's look at what it actually does.

00:03:43.000 And mask mandate, people that argue against it, they say this is an intrusion on civil liberties.

00:03:48.000 But think about it.

00:03:50.000 A dress code.

00:03:51.000 Is that an intrusion on civil liberty?

00:03:53.000 A vaccination mandate.

00:03:55.000 Is that an intrusion on civil liberty?

00:03:56.000 Let me bring you back to K through 12 education again.

00:03:59.000 100% of all public schools in the United States of America require vaccination to enter.

00:04:05.000 That's your vaccine passport already in play.

00:04:07.000 92% of private institutions require a vaccine in order to attend.

00:04:12.000 Let's go to the mask mandate.

00:04:15.000 The mask mandate protocol is in place for the safety of students.

00:04:19.000 This is based on verifiable science.

00:04:21.000 90% of those in the field of science, the field of study, they say that yes, it actually decreases the spread of COVID-19.

00:04:29.000 But now you have people around this country literally, rather than throwing on the mask, they rather throw fists.

00:04:36.000 They're fighting school teachers. 0.83

00:04:38.000 They're fighting those that oppose them.

00:04:40.000 And they are threatening to fight school board members because of a mask mandate.

00:04:44.000 I have not seen this kind of activity at school board meetings over anything except for these mandates.

00:04:51.000 But remember, mandates are already in place.

00:04:54.000 School boards have the statutory authority to implement administrative law given to them by the states based on the construct of the 10th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

00:05:05.000 These school boards are well within their constitutional right and statutory authority in order to implement such a protocol, just as they have the ability to say, here's the dress code, here's the vaccination requirement, here's the teacher credentialing requirement, and here's what it takes to pass to the next grade.

00:05:24.000 Very good.

00:05:25.000 Thank you, Dr. Ritchie.

00:05:26.000 So here's how to first respond.

00:05:28.000 First of all, we have to ask ourselves the question: is the Chinese coronavirus or the Fauci virus a serious threat to children?

00:05:35.000 That's the first question.

00:05:37.000 And so Dr. Macery wrote a story, wrote a piece, I should say, for the Wall Street Journal, where he studied tens of thousands, over 40,000 children with the virus and was not able to find one child that died from the virus, that did not have underlying health conditions and that did not have some sort of immunocompromised condition.

00:05:59.000 And so you look even more broadly than that.

00:06:01.000 This is from the New York Times.

00:06:02.000 I just want to read this, which is annual deaths among children in the United States.

00:06:07.000 Now, this is per 100,000 people.

00:06:10.000 So children 5 to 14 years old have a 2.1 per 100,000 chance of dying from cancer, a 1.9 per 100,000 chance of dying from vehicle accidents.

00:06:25.000 1.5 per 100,000 to die from suicide.

00:06:28.000 We'll get back to that in a second.

00:06:30.000 0.7 from homicide, 0.6 from cardiovascular disease, 0.5 from drowning, 0.3 from flu, and 0.2 from COVID.

00:06:39.000 Now, that's not percentage, that's per 100,000.

00:06:42.000 So the question is, if children are at a greater risk of riding in a car to school, then why all of a sudden should we now mandate the masks for children?

00:06:52.000 So I think we're talking about two different things, and I think we'll have a fun time going back and forth at the unscripted part of this is do schools have the ability and the authority and is it a good idea?

00:07:01.000 I'm going to start with whether it's a good idea, then we can get into the other one.

00:07:03.000 It's an awful idea.

00:07:04.000 It's bad for interaction.

00:07:06.000 It's bad for childhood development.

00:07:08.000 We already see the increase in mental health issues that I will go through some of the numbers associated with that, but everyone has kind of experienced that in their own way.

00:07:16.000 And saying to a child who is not at considerable risk of dying from a certain virus that you must change the way you interact, I think is child abuse.

00:07:24.000 And the floor is yours.

00:07:27.000 One minute, Doctors.

00:07:29.000 All right, so let's talk about the numbers.

00:07:31.000 Yes.

00:07:32.000 Okay.

00:07:33.000 The Delta variant has changed the game in many ways, where now you have children who not only have the virus, but they are experiencing adverse reactions from the virus like never before.

00:07:42.000 I take you to a place called Jackson County, Mississippi.

00:07:44.000 There's a school superintendent.

00:07:46.000 This guy decided to ignore all COVID-19 protocols.

00:07:48.000 He says he's going to live a life that's external of the fear of the pandemic.

00:07:53.000 Well, his school system, they have a 7% COVID positive rating.

00:07:59.000 They've already lost a school teacher.

00:08:01.000 Here's the other dynamic that people are considering.

00:08:03.000 You think children go to school in silos?

00:08:05.000 These children who can be carriers of COVID-19 can infect their social environment, such as their parents, their grandparents, other peer groups, people that their families associate with.

00:08:17.000 And then it becomes an issue of the ecosystem of our safety, not just the silo of the school system.

00:08:25.000 Very good.

00:08:26.000 So I'm glad you brought up the Delta variant.

00:08:26.000 I will respond.

00:08:29.000 So a lot of people have done at least some initial studies of the Delta variant.

00:08:34.000 So according to Dr. Roberta DeBasi of the Children's National Hospital, she was asked about Ari Shapiro from National Public Radio about the Delta variant.

00:08:43.000 The National Public Radio host said, wait a second, if kids under 12 are not vaccinated, is the delta variant a significant risk?

00:08:51.000 And she said, quote, children are still somewhat between 12 to 15 percent of all COVID cases and still 3 to 4 percent of all hospitalizations.

00:08:58.000 And we have not seen a huge change in that, even with the delta variant.

00:09:01.000 Now, I'll add to that, where the Boston Globe, not exactly a politicized paper to the right, asked the question, is the variant more severe in children?

00:09:10.000 Dr. Sharon Doran, epidemiologist at Tufts Medical Center, says, no.

00:09:14.000 I have not seen any peer-reviewed data or data from a reliable source to suggest that.

00:09:18.000 So I would submit, Doctor, that there is no data to show the Delta variant has any harsher cause.

00:09:23.000 In fact, the data shows the opposite.

00:09:26.000 Let me respond.

00:09:27.000 All right.

00:09:28.000 So here's what we know about the Delta variant.

00:09:31.000 Based on CDC directives, the Delta variant is more adversely affecting young people than it has previous with the original design. 0.77

00:09:41.000 To suggest otherwise is silly.

00:09:43.000 You can go to a place like Alabama. 0.94

00:09:43.000 And here's why. 0.94

00:09:45.000 Alabama, for the first time, they have run out of ICU beds.

00:09:48.000 The Alabama leadership, Governor and Beyond, they have blamed this on children going to hospitals that did not go before with the original COVID virus.

00:09:58.000 They're now being hospitalized like never before, and they're running out of ICU beds.

00:10:02.000 And at some point this week or next week, they may run out of ICU beds.

00:10:06.000 That's because of the hospitalization, not only of adults, but also of children.

00:10:10.000 At last count, they had over 400 children hospitalized for COVID.

00:10:15.000 They had a fraction of that during the first onset of the virus.

00:10:21.000 Almost perfect timing.

00:10:22.000 I got to give you credit for that.

00:10:23.000 It's almost like you do radio or something.

00:10:25.000 So I'll respond to this in a couple different ways.

00:10:27.000 And there's a lot more to unpack once we kind of go back and forth.

00:10:30.000 First, we have to ask ourselves the question, are people being hospitalized because of COVID or with COVID?

00:10:35.000 Now, this is something I've been saying for quite some time, but The Atlantic, which is a publication I think we can both agree, it's not exactly on the right, came out with this at the end of their article.

00:10:44.000 It was actually just published recently, where they asked the question, and this is the same doctor, Dr. Shara Doran, who's an epidemiologist at Tufts Medical Center from Boston, very reputable, right?

00:10:53.000 So she disagrees with the CDC.

00:10:55.000 She says Delta variant is not a significant risk for children, right?

00:10:58.000 And we're going to talk about what do you do when you disagree when you have competing studies?

00:11:02.000 I think that would be an interesting discussion where she said, quote, as we shift from cases to hospitalizations as a metric-to-drive policy and assess risk, we should refine the definition of hospitalization.

00:11:13.000 Those patients who are there with rather than from COVID don't belong in the metrics.

00:11:17.000 So I would just say, doctor, when you say 400 kids are hospitalized with COVID, we don't know that's necessarily true.

00:11:22.000 In fact, some say that number might be even 50 times too large.

00:11:25.000 50% too large.

00:11:25.000 Let me tell you this.

00:11:26.000 I'm sorry.

00:11:27.000 Dr. Richard, real quick, we're going to take like a 10-second break.

00:11:30.000 We're going to go in about 40 minutes or so about interaction.

00:11:32.000 Okay.

00:11:33.000 Yeah, and I'll let you start.

00:11:34.000 Perfect.

00:11:34.000 Is that okay?

00:11:34.000 That's perfect.

00:11:35.000 Everybody, short break, and then it's going to be a free-for-all.

00:11:39.000 All right, it's yours.

00:11:40.000 Would you like any water or anything?

00:11:40.000 All right.

00:11:42.000 I'm good.

00:11:43.000 Okay.

00:11:44.000 Now, this is no rules.

00:11:45.000 We can do whatever we want.

00:11:45.000 Love it.

00:11:46.000 All right.

00:11:47.000 Ready?

00:11:48.000 Yes, sir.

00:11:48.000 Countdown.

00:11:49.000 Are we good?

00:11:51.000 We're set, Joe?

00:11:52.000 Yep.

00:11:53.000 You saw you?

00:11:54.000 Here's the thing, Charlie.

00:11:54.000 Okay.

00:11:54.000 All right.

00:11:55.000 And I keep hearing people make this argument that somehow it matters that children who have an underlying health condition are the ones who are dying or being hospitalized.

00:12:11.000 That doesn't matter, Charlie.

00:12:12.000 The fact is that these are children, and some of these children aren't even aware if they have an underlying condition.

00:12:19.000 And that's not 100% of the data.

00:12:21.000 So when we continue to create this us and them narrative that somehow says, well, the only children who are dying are those that have an underlying health condition.

00:12:30.000 Well, hell, you can have an underlying health condition.

00:12:33.000 That does not make you any less significant as it relates to a virus or the spread of a virus that's preventable.

00:12:40.000 So are we having an argument about a civil liberty?

00:12:44.000 Because if this is an argument about a civil liberty, then the COVID issue is a separate argument because you have no issue with your seatbelt mandate.

00:12:54.000 You have no issue with your mandate to have a driver's license, even though you can buy a car without it.

00:13:00.000 You have no issue with these other mandates which are required for the safety of others, but you have an issue with this mandate, which we've already established that statutorily school boards have the authority to implement these mandates.

00:13:13.000 And American citizens, by and large, are for the mandates in K-12 education.

00:13:17.000 So I'll get to the civil liberties in a second.

00:13:19.000 As you notice, I didn't mention it all.

00:13:21.000 I'm saying this is a bad idea, right?

00:13:23.000 This is bad for children.

00:13:24.000 And also, it's bad for teachers, bad for an educational environment.

00:13:29.000 And so I'm going to reiterate one thing.

00:13:31.000 I'm not minimizing that it's children with underlying health conditions that are dying, but children with underlying health conditions have a predisposition from dying from any sort of infectious disease.

00:13:41.000 And the vast majority of children in this country are healthy, which is why we frame it in that way.

00:13:46.000 And so this kind of goes to this question, a couple of different questions.

00:13:48.000 And I would love to ask this question to you.

00:13:51.000 Let's just focus on whether this is a good idea, then we could focus on whether the government has the ability.

00:13:55.000 Do you think there are any downsides to children wearing masks in schools?

00:13:59.000 Hell yeah.

00:14:00.000 Of course there are downsides to it.

00:14:02.000 There are downsides to wearing a seatbelt.

00:14:03.000 You know, a percentage of people die every year for wearing a seatbelt, but the vast majority of them have their lives saved.

00:14:09.000 So let me be clear on this.

00:14:11.000 So go ahead.

00:14:12.000 Let me be clear on this.

00:14:14.000 There will always be a cause and effect relationship with any social variable change implemented in our current structural society, no matter what.

00:14:23.000 Masks create changes.

00:14:26.000 It is a social deviation from the norm.

00:14:29.000 But when you look at the risk of a child either having severe respiratory complications forever, potentially dying, or potentially infecting their parents or grandparents, we weigh that.

00:14:43.000 We weigh the same variables as it relates to vaccines that are already mandated.

00:14:48.000 Brother, in the school system, the vaccines that are already mandated are very clear.

00:14:53.000 Mumps, measles, polio.

00:14:55.000 All of them.

00:14:57.000 Every single one of them.

00:14:58.000 But do you have an issue with those?

00:14:59.000 It's a totally different type of vaccine, first of all.

00:15:01.000 First of all, those take 10 to 15 years on average to develop.

00:15:04.000 Secondly, they've just changed the definition of a vaccine.

00:15:07.000 So you have an issue with the vaccine, not the intrusion, or well, again, we'll get to the civil liberty part of it, right?

00:15:12.000 So I'm not saying that a school does not have the ability to mandate certain things.

00:15:16.000 Instead, my argument is that this is detrimental to children, their development, mental health issues, their ability to interact, and it doesn't even do what you say it's going to do.

00:15:25.000 So let me just read something.

00:15:26.000 That a study was done about masks that shows that if the mask is even adjusted by 3.2%, it totally invalidates any sort of efficacy of a mask.

00:15:36.000 Who did that study, Charlie?

00:15:37.000 Well, this was written by Daniel Horowitz.

00:15:39.000 Stephen Petty, one of the most experienced, certified industrial hygienicists and exposure experts in the country, has a study that he did on this.

00:15:48.000 So Steven Petty, the audience, can look at it and they can have their own sort of interpretation.

00:15:53.000 Now, most of the mask studies that you're probably going to mention are done in laboratory-style environments, not with six-year-old children.

00:16:01.000 And you can agree, you've seen six-year-olds, they're moving the mask all the time, which totally negates any sort of potential benefit.

00:16:08.000 So if kids aren't going to wear them properly and the cloth mask is basically a joke, then why subject them to this kind of submissive kind of cloth face diaper?

00:16:18.000 All right, so you're incorrect on the data.

00:16:19.000 So let me go ahead and correct that data.

00:16:22.000 First off, the data that you're citing is what we call an outlier data set.

00:16:28.000 92% of the field of actual research scientists agree that masks decrease the spread of COVID.

00:16:36.000 As a matter of fact, the only deviation from that agreement is by how much?

00:16:41.000 The lowest end is 10%.

00:16:43.000 The highest is 91%.

00:16:45.000 Can I ask a question about that?

00:16:46.000 I get to.

00:16:47.000 Give me one second, brother.

00:16:49.000 So University of California, they have a study and they posted this just a few days ago.

00:16:49.000 All right.

00:16:55.000 And if anybody wants to read it, it's called Still Confused About Mask.

00:16:58.000 Okay.

00:16:59.000 One of the lab studies that they highlighted showed in a high-speed camera scenario, respiratory droplets.

00:17:07.000 This is how the virus travels with the viral load.

00:17:10.000 Those respiratory droplets were found within 20 to 500 micrometers.

00:17:16.000 That's your size.

00:17:17.000 They were generated from saying a simple phrase.

00:17:19.000 So just talking to somebody creates a viral load, 20 to 500 micrometers, right?

00:17:27.000 Having a cloth in front of your mouth decreased it by virtually 100%.

00:17:34.000 Now, that flies in the face of individuals who say, well, cloth masks do nothing.

00:17:40.000 And remember, cloth masks are also now recommended for public use by the CDC and the World Health Organization.

00:17:50.000 So when you say they do absolutely nothing, even the data that you cite that says it doesn't do as much is at 10% effectiveness.

00:17:59.000 The other data, that's the majority of the data, says it does it at 80 to 90% effectiveness.

00:18:04.000 So I just want to make sure I'm understanding your position.

00:18:06.000 Your position is that, first of all, does that study factor in whether they wear the mask correctly or not?

00:18:12.000 Whether that they're touching the mask all the time and they're moving it?

00:18:15.000 Does that study factor for that?

00:18:17.000 This study factors for droplets that are transmitted.

00:18:21.000 But think about it.

00:18:21.000 I mean, a seven-year-old's not going to not be.

00:18:23.000 Your issue, brother, think about it.

00:18:24.000 Your issue, the argument you're making with me is an argument of education.

00:18:28.000 That means that young people have to be more educated.

00:18:30.000 I'm a former high school teacher.

00:18:31.000 All right.

00:18:31.000 There are high school students that may not wear the mask properly.

00:18:34.000 There are grown folks that don't wear the mask properly.

00:18:36.000 That's part of the argument.

00:18:37.000 The issue then is education and proper wearing of the mask.

00:18:41.000 You're literally making my argument.

00:18:42.000 That's part of the argument.

00:18:44.000 You're making my argument saying if you wear it properly, then it does, in fact, decrease the spread of COVID.

00:18:48.000 But they don't and they won't.

00:18:49.000 And you know that.

00:18:50.000 You're dealing with eight, nine, and 10-year-olds.

00:18:51.000 The other part of the argument, though, is that it actually makes us unfamiliar with one another, harder to communicate.

00:18:57.000 It stunts childhood development.

00:18:58.000 So I want to read some of these numbers.

00:19:00.000 And I want to ask you, do you think that masking children forcibly is going to help the 90% increase in suicide that we saw through March from 2019 to 20?

00:19:11.000 Is it going to help the nearly doubling of mental health issues or the 333.9% increase in intentional self-harm claim lines?

00:19:21.000 You're blaming all that on masks.

00:19:22.000 No, no, I'm not saying that.

00:19:23.000 I'm asking you a question.

00:19:25.000 Is that going to help or hurt America's mental health crisis?

00:19:28.000 Let's be very clear, brother, because I want to understand exactly what you're asking.

00:19:32.000 Are you saying that a kid wearing a mask and adjusting to a new social norm yields this result?

00:19:42.000 No, I'm asking you.

00:19:44.000 No, it doesn't yield that result.

00:19:45.000 There's nothing in the data set that says that.

00:19:47.000 So you think that masks have no impact whatsoever, potentially mental health?

00:19:51.000 Brother, I just answered that question and told you they do have an impact, but COVID-19 has even a stronger impact on social development because the risk of death, brother, is too low for children.

00:20:03.000 No, brother, no.

00:20:04.000 Let me tell you where I come from.

00:20:05.000 When we talk about children, Charlie, we're not talking about a silo of just kids in an educational system.

00:20:12.000 We're talking about kids that are connected to a greater community.

00:20:15.000 I come from a community where this COVID-19 virus, brother, has ravaged the black community.

00:20:21.000 And it's not just because children wear masks or don't wear masks.

00:20:24.000 It's because of other variables such as healthcare inequity, et cetera.

00:20:30.000 But if you look at children and just say, well, the mask thing is the only thing.

00:20:36.000 It's not just that.

00:20:37.000 We don't want young kids going back to infecting parents and grandparents.

00:20:42.000 And if it's such a bad idea, Charlie, are you disagreeing with over 60% of Americans who say who care about their children?

00:20:50.000 You can't say these folks don't care about their children. 0.85

00:20:52.000 And they are saying in all of the survey data that we want mask mandates for our children so they can be safe.

00:21:00.000 What do you say to those parents that say that?

00:21:02.000 I have a difference of opinion.

00:21:03.000 And by the way, thankfully, we have a system, just because you have 60% of opinion doesn't mean it necessarily only becomes law.

00:21:10.000 We'll get to kind of the, I want to get to the civil rights.

00:21:12.000 Which is already law.

00:21:13.000 In a second, but it's such a, or it becomes precedent or gets implemented or whatever it is.

00:21:17.000 So as I mentioned, the New York Times said that COVID, you have a higher chance of dying from flu pneumonia, drowning, cardiovascular disease, suicide, homicide, vehicle accidents.

00:21:28.000 So to be consistent per 100,000 for children, right?

00:21:33.000 Are you okay with banning driving?

00:21:35.000 So let's go to this.

00:21:36.000 I'm okay with making sure kids have a set of prerequisites in order to drive.

00:21:45.000 Wait a minute.

00:21:46.000 By the way, that's already the law.

00:21:48.000 Children do not get to drive just because they turn a certain age.

00:21:52.000 They have to get a learner's permit, go through a training process in order to get that license.

00:21:57.000 And why do we do that, Charlie?

00:21:58.000 We do that because we know that driving is dangerous.

00:22:02.000 That's why we do that, right?

00:22:04.000 Well, also being a passenger in a car as well.

00:22:06.000 Everything, brother, everything to some level has a danger.

00:22:09.000 If your view is to make safety a priority over liberty, then I'm just asking you, because that is really the question, right?

00:22:16.000 Do you have the liberty to be as God made you without a mask?

00:22:16.000 No.

00:22:19.000 Right?

00:22:20.000 God made you without clothes.

00:22:21.000 You got clothes on.

00:22:22.000 Well, and we wear clothes for a reason.

00:22:23.000 We know that there's a biblical reason for that.

00:22:25.000 It's the law.

00:22:26.000 And you will be charged with indecent exposure.

00:22:28.000 God also gave us a face for a reason.

00:22:29.000 We have to interact and empathize, to communicate so I can see your expressions.

00:22:33.000 Let me ask you a question.

00:22:34.000 Charlie, come on.

00:22:35.000 Do you think this debate would be better or worse if we had masks on?

00:22:39.000 It'll be the same for me.

00:22:40.000 Really, you think so?

00:22:41.000 Let me tell you something, brother.

00:22:42.000 That's interesting.

00:22:43.000 I teach college classes and lecture with a mask on.

00:22:45.000 All of my students have masks.

00:22:47.000 I go to law school.

00:22:48.000 We all have masks on.

00:22:49.000 My professor has a mask as well.

00:22:51.000 And I've actually been in schools when schools first started back where masks were required.

00:22:57.000 And let me tell you something about real teachers.

00:22:58.000 School teachers are able to teach with a mask on and without a mask.

00:23:02.000 It's called pedagogy.

00:23:03.000 And some of the really good teachers, they're able to translate the message of the mask into their curriculum.

00:23:09.000 But once again, you're avoiding something that's huge and right in our face.

00:23:13.000 Is the benefit, and this is a question of what you believe, is the benefit of protecting children by saying you do have to wear a mask.

00:23:22.000 You do have to abide by a dress code.

00:23:24.000 You do have to abide by a particular behavioral standard.

00:23:27.000 Are those directives inside of a school system to protect the overall and general safety of students?

00:23:34.000 Is that a good idea?

00:23:35.000 I say yes.

00:23:36.000 You say no.

00:23:37.000 Well, and I think you're coming from a false premise.

00:23:39.000 The data I showed is that they're not at risk and considerably from the Delta.

00:23:42.000 They're silo thinking, brother. 0.96

00:23:44.000 They're not thinking about their family.

00:23:45.000 The data I showed showed that they don't even wear the masks.

00:23:48.000 The data I also showed.

00:23:49.000 What percentage also shows, well, again, 2%.

00:23:52.000 The percentage of kids do not wear the mask properly.

00:23:55.000 I don't have data on that, but if you've ever been around a six-year-old, they don't wear anything properly.

00:23:58.000 They're not dirt.

00:23:59.000 And let me tell you something, man.

00:24:00.000 Let alone wear a mask, brother.

00:24:02.000 Charlie, and I mean this in all due respect.

00:24:04.000 I've been inside of school systems recently that did the let's come back thing and let's wear a mask, let's socially distance.

00:24:11.000 Those kids were well-behaved.

00:24:13.000 They did not take the mask off.

00:24:14.000 They adhered to it.

00:24:15.000 Even if a 2% adjustment, doctor, 2%.

00:24:18.000 Well, it changes everything.

00:24:20.000 Well, it changes it based on the research that I have from 90% effectiveness and it can lower down to 10%.

00:24:28.000 All right.

00:24:28.000 You got a lot of wiggle room in between that.

00:24:30.000 No scientist says that wearing a cloth mask is ineffective.

00:24:36.000 They just argue on the effectiveness with the majority of the science and majority of the data saying it is well over 50% of the factors.

00:24:43.000 There's a study out of Denmark that shows there's almost no increase.

00:24:43.000 That's not true.

00:24:47.000 So that's a good question.

00:24:48.000 I'm going to get to that in a second.

00:24:49.000 What happens when you have different studies?

00:24:50.000 What happens when the body of evidence contradicts?

00:24:53.000 Because that's an important question.

00:24:54.000 I think that's a great question.

00:24:55.000 Because how do you govern oneself when you have, I have this study, I have that study, but I just want to make sure that the people watching can see where I'm coming from my perspective.

00:25:03.000 So let me just say kind of one other point on this.

00:25:06.000 You said that, am I willing to make adjustments for child safety?

00:25:11.000 And you kind of asked, that was the open-ended question where I say it's not about that at all.

00:25:16.000 In fact, the downside, in my opinion, far outweighs any sort of benefit, especially when Dr. Macri, who said, he studied right here, he studied 43,000 children with COVID and was not able to find a single death.

00:25:31.000 Now, you say it's also a transmission issue.

00:25:34.000 Dr. Macquarie also said that children, quote, are not significant carriers or super spreaders to adults.

00:25:40.000 Okay.

00:25:40.000 Wow.

00:25:41.000 So we're going to have study collision.

00:25:42.000 So go ahead.

00:25:42.000 So let's talk about study collision.

00:25:45.000 Once again, outlier data.

00:25:48.000 What that doctor just quoted to say that children are not carriers of COVID-19 is outlier data because over 90% of the field agrees based on research and study that kids are carriers of not only COVID, but of any virus.

00:26:04.000 And you literally just made that argument with me.

00:26:07.000 You literally just said, Charlie, that kids do not properly wear their masks and they're spreading things by not properly wearing their mask.

00:26:14.000 You have made the contrast argument.

00:26:17.000 I said if your argument was true and masks worked, it would only be true if every child was a perfect automaton mask wearing student.

00:26:25.000 Of course we know is not true.

00:26:26.000 Do seatbelt mandates work?

00:26:28.000 Of course they do.

00:26:29.000 Does everyone wear one?

00:26:30.000 Do you know what's amazing about a seatbelt?

00:26:31.000 Charlie, does everyone wear a seatbelt?

00:26:33.000 After you're in a car accident, it doesn't give you natural immunity from getting in another car accident.

00:26:37.000 Brother.

00:26:37.000 That's what makes this totally.

00:26:38.000 Does everyone wear a seatbelt, Charlie?

00:26:40.000 Of course not.

00:26:41.000 Do we then go back and unravel, because only 49 states have seatbelt laws, do we go back and unravel the 49 state statutes because there are some people who will either A, not wear them, or B, actually die because of them?

00:26:57.000 We don't do that, Charlie, because we see the benefit of wearing that safety belt, that protocol far outweighs anything else.

00:27:05.000 So we haven't, I've not been convinced by the data.

00:27:09.000 Let's talk about the data because we're going to collide on data.

00:27:12.000 Let me ask you a question when it comes to driving and safetyism.

00:27:15.000 Do you think we should bring speed limits down to 20 miles an hour, which would definitely save lives?

00:27:20.000 Is that a good handoff?

00:27:21.000 Yeah, so let me get back to that.

00:27:22.000 It used to be 15 miles per hour, by the way.

00:27:24.000 Is that okay with you?

00:27:25.000 Because that would prioritize safety over liberty.

00:27:27.000 Well, I think you always weigh it.

00:27:29.000 But let me answer your first question.

00:27:30.000 I'll get back to that one.

00:27:31.000 You talked about conflict in data, right?

00:27:33.000 Yeah, like what happens when I have a study?

00:27:35.000 I have a study.

00:27:36.000 That's right.

00:27:36.000 So here's what happens.

00:27:38.000 Science, a lot of people misinterpret what science is.

00:27:41.000 They say science is a fact.

00:27:42.000 Science is not a fact.

00:27:44.000 Science is a field of study.

00:27:45.000 Now, there are some things that are scientific facts, like gravity, okay?

00:27:49.000 But science is a field of study.

00:27:54.000 And I do think sometimes scientists do themselves an injustice when they do not describe science as such.

00:27:59.000 It is a field of study.

00:28:00.000 Now, what does that field of study mean?

00:28:02.000 It means you study the field.

00:28:04.000 So, what's the field of science?

00:28:06.000 All of these research surveys, these research, these laboratory experiments, these real world research experiments, that's the field of study.

00:28:17.000 And so, for you and I, who are reading the data from these experts, what we typically depend on is what is the majority sentiment?

00:28:25.000 What is the consensus among the scientist community?

00:28:28.000 And that is how we start to derive our conclusions based on the research that we're able to analyze independently as independent thinking individuals.

00:28:38.000 Now, you can still believe an outlier study if you choose.

00:28:42.000 It is contrary to the majority of the science that's available for review, but that is still within your right as an American, right?

00:28:51.000 So, that is how you do it.

00:28:53.000 You're going to always have clashing opinions and conclusions, but literally in research, there's no 50-50 here.

00:29:00.000 There's not 50% of the scientists are saying this and 50% of the scientists are saying that.

00:29:05.000 Literally, you're giving me eight, seven percent of what scientists are saying compared to 92, 93 percent of what other scientists are saying.

00:29:13.000 That's the argument that you're making with me, Charlie.

00:29:15.000 And I'm always fascinated by the 7% because they're willing to buck the consensus and pursue things that they have found in the scientific method to be true. 0.90

00:29:24.000 And so, I guess this is an important question.

00:29:27.000 Then we'll get into what do we do when we have these differences because that we're going to keep on going in circles of study versus study.

00:29:32.000 And I'm going to say, Well, according to this doctor, for example, as I'll say, Dr. Darone, delta variant not severe in children.

00:29:39.000 And then I'll say Dr. Debazi said the same thing.

00:29:41.000 And Dr. Macri, and you'll say, Well, the CDC said this.

00:29:44.000 I guess I'll ask you.

00:29:45.000 Which are a lot of doctors.

00:29:45.000 Well, let me ask you a question.

00:29:46.000 The CDC contradicted themselves on masks.

00:29:49.000 They contradict themselves on vaccines.

00:29:51.000 They contradict themselves on COVID being on surfaces.

00:29:54.000 Remember, they said it could be there up to five days.

00:29:56.000 We know that not to be true.

00:29:57.000 They contradict themselves on almost everything.

00:30:00.000 If they've been wrong on the science of 90% of doctors, why should we trust them now?

00:30:05.000 You know, that's really interesting because you trust them, don't you?

00:30:10.000 It depends on what issue.

00:30:11.000 Exactly.

00:30:12.000 Yeah.

00:30:12.000 That's my point.

00:30:13.000 So you trust them depending on what issue.

00:30:15.000 That is called confirmation bias.

00:30:17.000 So, Charlie.

00:30:18.000 Well, it depends on the issue.

00:30:19.000 If they're talking about, yeah, Newton's second law, then yeah, I'll trust them on that.

00:30:22.000 They don't talk about that.

00:30:24.000 The issue with the CDC is not about you discrediting all the scientists.

00:30:29.000 Now, I take it back to one variable you just named, the COVID, the survival time of the virus, right?

00:30:37.000 Yeah, like if is COVID able to be on this table for five.

00:30:40.000 Initially, there were scientists that came out and said, hell, it can be up there for 18 days.

00:30:46.000 Well, in certain environments, it can because that was based on a ship crew, a cruise ship, where the virus was still there after 15 days.

00:30:56.000 It was there after 15 days.

00:30:56.000 That's right, brother.

00:30:58.000 Everybody was evacuated.

00:31:00.000 They cleaned that ship top to bottom, and they still found active virus on the ship.

00:31:04.000 So they came out and said, hey, listen, we're still learning this thing.

00:31:07.000 We are connecting it to the field of study, which is called science.

00:31:11.000 And we want you to be warned that we have active virus cultures still on this ship.

00:31:18.000 And no one infected has been here for over 15 days.

00:31:22.000 They reported that.

00:31:23.000 And then people ran with it and said, oh, my goodness, this thing survives for all of these days.

00:31:30.000 But that was in a particular environment.

00:31:32.000 And that environment was conducive to the growth and the preservation of that virus.

00:31:37.000 That's context that's important.

00:31:40.000 So you mentioned outliers.

00:31:42.000 You know, those of us that are trying to answer the question, what do we do about this?

00:31:46.000 I'm fascinated by outliers.

00:31:47.000 Outliers in science sometimes end up being true.

00:31:50.000 In fact, we've seen this.

00:31:52.000 You know, we were told that it was a conspiracy theory, that it came from a lab.

00:31:55.000 Well, that's kind of the prevailing wisdom.

00:31:57.000 Now, it definitely didn't come from some bat in the Himalayas.

00:32:00.000 It's looking more and more like it came from the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

00:32:03.000 It also used to be an outlier to say that we revolve around the sun.

00:32:07.000 The heliocentric theory of gravitational pull, as authored by Galileo, used to be an outlier in science.

00:32:14.000 Newton's first, second, and third law, the idea that an object at rest will stay at rest, the idea that there's force equals mass times acceleration.

00:32:22.000 These things had to be eventually investigated and proven.

00:32:25.000 I'll give you another example.

00:32:27.000 It used to be scientific consensus that eugenics was good and the sterilization of women would improve humanity. 1.00

00:32:33.000 Now, those are some extreme examples.

00:32:35.000 I understand.

00:32:35.000 But the point is that sometimes these, what if these studies are right?

00:32:39.000 Do you ever wonder?

00:32:40.000 What if there's some truth here?

00:32:43.000 Do you ever wonder what if the majority of scientists are telling the truth?

00:32:47.000 Well, of course.

00:32:47.000 I mean, I entertain it and I dismiss it on issue by issue.

00:32:50.000 I'll give you an example.

00:32:51.000 Like a majority of scientists right now are saying that we have to entertain another round of lockdowns in certain parts of the country or the world to try to stop the virus.

00:33:02.000 I think that's a big mistake.

00:33:04.000 I mean, I'll listen to anything that they say.

00:33:05.000 Well, you may think that's a big mistake, but you're saying that based on a socioeconomic factor.

00:33:10.000 Well, I also could say it epidemiologically.

00:33:11.000 I could also say it epidemiologically, right?

00:33:13.000 So let's look at Israel and Sweden, right?

00:33:16.000 Israel was held up as this like beautiful country, mass inoculation. 0.91

00:33:20.000 They've now gone through their fourth lockdown.

00:33:22.000 They're on their fourth booster shot.

00:33:24.000 Sweden, that probably had the most mature and prudent response to the virus, is wide open.

00:33:29.000 And Sweden has now banned Israeli citizens from coming into Sweden.

00:33:34.000 And so I don't need a PhD in epidemiology to say, hey, whatever decisions they were making in Sweden seemed far more prudent than what they were doing in Israel. 0.53

00:33:44.000 And I suppose this is the question, which is you have this multitude of studies.

00:33:50.000 Many of these, the consensus that was put forward.

00:33:52.000 So let's go back in time.

00:33:54.000 Dr. Ronnie Jackson last year said, do not wear a mask.

00:33:57.000 People stop wearing masks.

00:33:58.000 And now we're mask crazy.

00:33:59.000 That was a contradiction, right?

00:34:01.000 Remember, they said that at first that children might be at risk.

00:34:05.000 That was a conjecture.

00:34:06.000 That was not necessarily a policy.

00:34:07.000 We now know it to be different.

00:34:09.000 The point is that we should always be entertaining the minority opinion in science, right?

00:34:15.000 And honestly, that minority opinion has ended up being true almost every time.

00:34:18.000 No, sir.

00:34:19.000 No, sir.

00:34:20.000 The minority opinion has said some pretty extreme things.

00:34:24.000 You have a minority opinion of people who believe that the earth is still flat.

00:34:28.000 Well, I'm not one of those people.

00:34:29.000 I understand.

00:34:30.000 I do believe in a circular earth in a variety of different ways.

00:34:33.000 But remember, you have some people that are willing to die by that sentiment.

00:34:37.000 They are so dogmatic about the earth, right?

00:34:40.000 And that's a scientific factor.

00:34:41.000 That's earth science.

00:34:42.000 Just because the data or the proclamation is an outlier does not mean it's true.

00:34:48.000 But calling Dr. Darone a flat earther is a little extreme.

00:34:51.000 That's not.

00:34:51.000 Come on, brother.

00:34:52.000 She's an epidemiologist, a tough person.

00:34:53.000 Come on, you know, Guin Dan Williams.

00:34:54.000 But you're kind of conflating those two things.

00:34:56.000 I'm not presenting the extreme examples you just gave.

00:35:01.000 Very fair.

00:35:01.000 Come on.

00:35:02.000 That's fine.

00:35:02.000 Okay.

00:35:03.000 Let's go to some simple things we learned about infectious diseases.

00:35:08.000 Like you, I've interviewed a lot of infectious disease doctors, right?

00:35:12.000 Some of them have been all across the United States, and now they're right here all across the globe.

00:35:18.000 And now they're right-handed in the United States trying to fight this thing.

00:35:20.000 Do you and I agree that masks decrease the spread of COVID?

00:35:27.000 Do we agree on that fundamental basic premise?

00:35:30.000 It's questionable.

00:35:30.000 I would only agree if it's a certain type of mask that is worn absolutely properly, that followed the exact laboratory guidelines.

00:35:37.000 If and only then, I would say maybe, which almost no human being outside of a controlled, sterilized laboratory environment is wearing a mask that way.

00:35:46.000 How do you wear a mask properly?

00:35:48.000 By not touching it, not adjusting it, according to, again, Steven Petty, one of the most ex-certified experts in industrial hygienicists.

00:35:55.000 He says that even if 2% of the mask area is open, 80% of the particles under 2.5 microns will exist.

00:36:01.000 Thank you for saying that.

00:36:02.000 Okay.

00:36:03.000 Now, what area is he talking about, Charlie?

00:36:06.000 It could be the top or the bottom of the mask.

00:36:08.000 I'm not exactly sure.

00:36:08.000 The mouth or your nose.

00:36:09.000 The terminology.

00:36:10.000 So if your mouth or your nose is exposed, then it decreases the impact of what the mask is.

00:36:16.000 That's not what he said.

00:36:16.000 Okay, go ahead.

00:36:17.000 But again, I'm not going to profess, you know, a lifelong student of mask wearing.

00:36:24.000 But, brother, read it.

00:36:25.000 Okay.

00:36:25.000 I'm going to finish it, though.

00:36:27.000 2% of the mask area open, 80% of the particles under 2.5 microns will escape.

00:36:32.000 And he says that masks will be 100% ineffective, he says.

00:36:37.000 In blocking any particles that small when the open area reaches 3.2%.

00:36:42.000 And he also says that if it's even adjusted by 4%, a small adjustment, it could end it all.

00:36:47.000 And also, you know this, you could contaminate yourself.

00:36:50.000 Not to mention, Dr. Macquary says that if you wear the masks, you could actually be reinfecting yourself and it lowers oxygen levels.

00:36:59.000 So there are some things to say.

00:37:00.000 You know, that's really interesting.

00:37:02.000 Okay.

00:37:02.000 And I'm citing other people.

00:37:03.000 Again, I got you.

00:37:04.000 And then we'll go into what we do about it.

00:37:06.000 I think that's interesting.

00:37:07.000 That is a minority report.

00:37:08.000 So let me take you back to what he's referencing.

00:37:11.000 Okay.

00:37:11.000 He's referencing having the mask not covering your pothole.

00:37:17.000 All right.

00:37:17.000 That's what he's referencing.

00:37:19.000 The way it spreads through droplets primarily is through your mouth and through your nose.

00:37:24.000 Once again, I cite the study highlighted by the University of California that found in a high-speed camera, 20 to 500 micrometers were generated from a simple phrase, hello, goodbye, good to see you.

00:37:37.000 Okay.

00:37:37.000 That simple phrase had thousands inside of those droplets.

00:37:41.000 That's your viral load.

00:37:42.000 A cloth mask, not one that is required for medical and person five or whatever.

00:37:48.000 Right.

00:37:49.000 Not that one.

00:37:50.000 Just as a matter of fact, in the study, brother, they used a cloth towel.

00:37:55.000 So wash towel. 0.99

00:37:56.000 So in order to show that any covering is in fact effective.

00:38:01.000 So now this is the most important question, right?

00:38:04.000 So half the country's on your couch, half the country's on my couch.

00:38:07.000 It might be less than that.

00:38:08.000 According to you, it's 60%, right?

00:38:10.000 So then the question is, how do we govern ourselves, right?

00:38:13.000 If we have differences of opinions on things that are constantly changing and confusing.

00:38:17.000 Wouldn't the right answer be, allow a parent and the child to make that decision outside of what a school district might want to do against their will?

00:38:26.000 Shouldn't we always resort towards parental rights in situations like this?

00:38:30.000 Let me ask you this, Charlie.

00:38:33.000 Let's say we use the same standard for dress codes in school systems.

00:38:37.000 That is not about what the policy is.

00:38:39.000 It's about what the parent and the child wants to do.

00:38:42.000 Would that be okay with you?

00:38:44.000 Well, first of all, I think that a certain level of a dress code, I think, is just actually really good for childhood development.

00:38:51.000 I would argue, I'm actually very pro-dress code.

00:38:53.000 I would love to have kids wear shirts and ties.

00:38:55.000 So I think there could be an objective argument made that they'll pay more attention.

00:39:00.000 But you can't make that argument for masks.

00:39:02.000 You can tell there's a downside.

00:39:03.000 I don't think that if all of a sudden you said, hey, the nicer you dress, the worst environment, it's the opposite.

00:39:08.000 There is a psychological downside.

00:39:09.000 Various studies prove it.

00:39:10.000 To dress like you?

00:39:11.000 No, man.

00:39:13.000 If kids dress like you, you can't dress like me, brother.

00:39:16.000 I know, but if kids dress like you, everyone would be smarter.

00:39:19.000 So let me say this, Charlie.

00:39:20.000 There are studies, and listen, man, I have a doctorate in education.

00:39:25.000 There are studies that show education is not just for academic achievement.

00:39:29.000 It's also for social development.

00:39:31.000 And there comes a time, especially in a teenager's life, where they would like to express themselves socially through their attire.

00:39:36.000 I'm actually more liberal as it relates to attire, right?

00:39:39.000 I don't like dress codes as they are.

00:39:41.000 I'm more conservative.

00:39:43.000 I kind of like it.

00:39:43.000 I understand.

00:39:44.000 I understand the decency.

00:39:45.000 As I wear a t-shirt, right?

00:39:47.000 But the issue is we can't create a standard that says we're willing to put your life in danger or your child in danger because you have a personal issue with the school policy.

00:40:01.000 And remember, once again, the vast majority of Americans are for the mask mandate policy.

00:40:07.000 So let's just go to this.

00:40:08.000 First of all, I think it's somewhat of a red herring argument because some parents don't like to send their kids to private school because they have a dress code.

00:40:14.000 So there's some choice there.

00:40:15.000 I guess what I'm saying, though, is that you support a school board coming into the school and saying every child must wear the mask.

00:40:21.000 Why not make it optional?

00:40:22.000 Because here's what happens is that some parents are going to yield to my opinion.

00:40:27.000 Some parents will yield to your opinion.

00:40:28.000 Isn't the right decision just to let parents choose?

00:40:31.000 I think the right decision is to allow the elected representatives who were elected by those parents to enact administrative law to make common sense policies to protect the children and for them to listen to the science as it's collected locally.

00:40:44.000 I don't believe it's the right idea to do what DeSantis has did in Florida, which is to make a mask mandate ban, which by the way, 70% of Republicans disagree with his ban on mask mandates and defunding school systems who are in opposition to his executive action.

00:41:04.000 And a judge recently ruled by Governor DeSantis that DeSantis in Florida was without legal authority when he used an executive order to limit a governmental entity that exists by statute.

00:41:19.000 If you want to start making executive orders to restrict other governmental agencies, go through statutory processes through your legislation.

00:41:27.000 Let me ask you a question.

00:41:28.000 First of all, I love what DeSantis did and I love the idea.

00:41:31.000 Coming in, well, there was a judge that is rehearing.

00:41:33.000 I think he actually just won on that, but I will yield to this, that there was an Iowa decision that just said where a judge said what happened in Iowa was unconstitutional.

00:41:41.000 So there are a lot of rulings there.

00:41:43.000 I will give you that, that it's an open-ended question.

00:41:46.000 But what DeSantis is doing is actually the anti-of mandates.

00:41:49.000 He's telling every student in Florida, you have, as a taxpayer, a moral right to be able to choose.

00:41:57.000 And you want to talk about local government.

00:41:58.000 You're talking about local government, right?

00:42:00.000 You know what the ultimate local government is?

00:42:01.000 A parent and child.

00:42:02.000 There's nothing more local.

00:42:03.000 Well, thank you for saying that because once again, the vast majority of them are for mask mandates.

00:42:09.000 Then let them mask their kid and let the other parents not mask their kids.

00:42:12.000 Again, once again, just because their child has a mask, right?

00:42:17.000 It doesn't mean the child next to them will have one.

00:42:20.000 And what is COVID, what are the masks for?

00:42:23.000 The mask is for the decrease, primarily for the decrease of COVID.

00:42:28.000 The decrease of the spread.

00:42:30.000 I want to read some stats, man, because we've been all over the place.

00:42:33.000 Most Americans are for the vaccine requirement.

00:42:36.000 This is a Gallup poll that came out very recently.

00:42:39.000 You want to do vaccines?

00:42:40.000 Okay.

00:42:40.000 That's fine.

00:42:40.000 Happy to go into that.

00:42:41.000 All right.

00:42:41.000 Let's go to vaccines quickly.

00:42:43.000 54% of Americans support vaccine requirements in workplace settings.

00:42:48.000 53% report that they're for them, even if you're dining out.

00:42:53.000 They want you to have a vaccine passport.

00:42:57.000 61% of Americans would like to have that for air travel.

00:43:00.000 We don't have that yet.

00:43:01.000 You can still travel without a vaccine.

00:43:03.000 Some restaurants are starting to do that.

00:43:04.000 But I'm talking about travel.

00:43:04.000 For travel, we don't have that.

00:43:06.000 Canada is implementing that in the fall.

00:43:08.000 Other countries are going to do the same.

00:43:09.000 If you're telling me that the school system, just think about this, and I'm going back to vaccines.

00:43:13.000 If you're telling me that the school system has the legal authority to mandate various vaccinations, that's a needle going into the body of a child.

00:43:21.000 They have the authority to mandate that, but they do not have the authority to mandate a mask.

00:43:28.000 That is intellectually dishonest.

00:43:30.000 Either the school board has the authority to mandate vaccines and masks, or it is all governmental.

00:43:37.000 Right, so you're talking about measles, mumps, and rubella, or you talking about the volume.

00:43:40.000 And some children have adverse effects of those vaccines.

00:43:43.000 I would actually be more on parental rights to that.

00:43:45.000 But the courts have ruled differently.

00:43:47.000 My personal right would be that children should be able to go to school without the measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine.

00:43:53.000 That's my own personal.

00:43:54.000 Are you against vaccine mandates as a principle?

00:43:58.000 It depends on what you're talking about with that, right?

00:44:00.000 Are you talking about the current one that's being called a vaccine with a changing definition of a vaccine?

00:44:04.000 So do you have an issue with COVID?

00:44:06.000 Well, do I have an issue with the one that was put on the marketplace without the usual 10 to 15 years of study and the peer-reviewed studies and the explosion of various responses?

00:44:17.000 10 to 15 years later, you'll agree with me.

00:44:19.000 Well, we'll see.

00:44:20.000 That's what you're saying?

00:44:20.000 I don't know.

00:44:21.000 The issue here is prudence, right?

00:44:23.000 Is how are we going to use practical judgment to see what's in front of us and ask ourselves the question, should we use force to all of a sudden say to a family, you know what?

00:44:32.000 Does it matter about all these studies that may very well might be a small percentage of doctors, but you know what's so great about science?

00:44:38.000 It's not an up or down vote.

00:44:39.000 We don't vote on Newton's third law.

00:44:41.000 So if there's not 100% consensus, it is an open question.

00:44:44.000 And you have to keep on going through it in a scientific method.

00:44:46.000 Follow the data.

00:44:47.000 The data can send you in different directions.

00:44:49.000 As we've shown, we're asking ourselves, what do we do?

00:44:52.000 So my opinion is that when things are confusing, unclear, and you have contradiction, yield to rights.

00:44:59.000 Let people choose.

00:45:00.000 Don't use force.

00:45:01.000 All right, man.

00:45:02.000 That's a funny argument to me.

00:45:04.000 Let me tell you why.

00:45:05.000 There's a lot of disagreement about voting.

00:45:09.000 You got state legislatures.

00:45:11.000 They have passed laws saying you need to do A, B, and C in order to vote.

00:45:16.000 You can't vote by way of absentee without having this prerequisite.

00:45:20.000 It's all over the place.

00:45:21.000 There is no federal uniform to voting, right?

00:45:24.000 There is some.

00:45:24.000 There is the Civil Rights Act.

00:45:25.000 That's not true.

00:45:26.000 Yeah, but it's very specific.

00:45:28.000 The Voting Rights Act, I think, is what you're referring to.

00:45:31.000 The Voting Rights Act was gutted by the Supreme Court a few years ago, who set it aside and said the United States Congress needs to now handle this statutorily, which is the reason why southern states like Georgia, Mississippi, and others do not have to seek pre-clearance from the Department of Justice in order to change the electorate rules in their state.

00:45:52.000 Before the Supreme Court set aside the Voting Rights Act, they would have to get pre-clearance from the DOJ in order to change voting rules in their society.

00:46:00.000 Before we get to voting, can you complete the point, though?

00:46:02.000 Because you were trying to connect voting with COVID.

00:46:04.000 Texas, they passed a law.

00:46:09.000 They passed this legislative standard that said constitutional carry.

00:46:12.000 You're familiar with that?

00:46:14.000 Big fan of it.

00:46:14.000 All right.

00:46:15.000 I'm glad you're a big fan of constitutional carry, right?

00:46:18.000 Because it says you do not need a prerequisite in order to get a gun.

00:46:25.000 No license, no government bureaucracy, no ID, no permit, no nothing.

00:46:31.000 Constitutional carry.

00:46:33.000 Because bearing arms is what?

00:46:35.000 A constitutional right.

00:46:37.000 Yes.

00:46:37.000 Correct?

00:46:38.000 I'm good with that.

00:46:38.000 Boom.

00:46:39.000 100%.

00:46:41.000 Is voting a right?

00:46:42.000 Depends on if you're a felon or not.

00:46:44.000 But it is a right, because if you're a felon, you can't have a gun either.

00:46:47.000 Yeah, that's the question, right?

00:46:48.000 So an extreme libertarian would say that we should allow felons to vote.

00:46:53.000 We should allow people to vote.

00:46:54.000 Voting is a right, absolutely.

00:46:56.000 But it's also, it becomes not a right when it's not secure.

00:46:59.000 You agree with that.

00:47:00.000 You don't want to all of a sudden question your elections.

00:47:02.000 So let me now pose this to you constitutionally.

00:47:05.000 You have the right to bear arms.

00:47:06.000 Yes.

00:47:06.000 That right can be limited.

00:47:08.000 You have to age into that right based on the state law.

00:47:11.000 Yes.

00:47:12.000 Okay.

00:47:12.000 You also can have that right taken away from you based on your criminal activity.

00:47:16.000 Felon, as we agree on.

00:47:17.000 But you do agree it's a right.

00:47:19.000 Yes, but all, I mean, like, look, rights are conditional under the current agreement we've made with our government, where the Second Amendment, the Fourth Amendment, there are exceptions.

00:47:28.000 I think there's far too many exceptions.

00:47:30.000 I yield to rights most of the time.

00:47:32.000 Okay, let's yield to rights on this.

00:47:33.000 And this is the point I'm making to you.

00:47:34.000 If you're a big fan of constitutional carry, meaning no ID, no permit, no bureaucracy.

00:47:39.000 I think that's an oversimplification of the Texas law.

00:47:41.000 No, the Texas law says you don't need nothing.

00:47:44.000 But you just said felons can't buy the guns then.

00:47:46.000 How do they know if they're a felon?

00:47:47.000 Exactly, brother.

00:47:49.000 No, no, but exactly.

00:47:51.000 That's my point.

00:47:53.000 I think you're misunderstanding Texas law.

00:47:57.000 Constitutional carry does not require a prerequisite.

00:48:01.000 You can just get a gun, carry it, and no law enforcement agent can ask you for a permit.

00:48:06.000 Nobody.

00:48:07.000 You can walk around with your gas.

00:48:09.000 I understand the point you're making.

00:48:10.000 You say, if you want to have laissez-faire policy on guns, then why don't you want to have laissez-faire policy on voting?

00:48:16.000 Is that the question you're?

00:48:18.000 Here's the point I'm making.

00:48:18.000 I don't know how that relates to COVID.

00:48:20.000 I'm about to help you, brother.

00:48:21.000 If you believe in constitutional carry, why don't you believe in constitutional voting?

00:48:27.000 Well, I do, which means voter ID and security.

00:48:30.000 But no ID for guns?

00:48:31.000 No permit for the body.

00:48:32.000 You know what the biggest thing?

00:48:34.000 No voting for voting?

00:48:35.000 Let me tell you why.

00:48:36.000 Voting is how we build our government.

00:48:38.000 I thought you should defend your government.

00:48:40.000 That's true.

00:48:41.000 That's also true, which is why we should have widespread gun ownership and we should be able to protect ourselves against a usurpatious government.

00:48:47.000 Let me build this out.

00:48:48.000 All right.

00:48:49.000 And I finished my point.

00:48:49.000 I'm going to make the connection.

00:48:51.000 I don't know how it gets to COVID.

00:48:52.000 It's interesting.

00:48:53.000 Okay.

00:48:53.000 But voting is how we express our values and put people in positions of power.

00:48:59.000 And if there's any question in the efficacy, the integrity, the transparency in how those elections are done, the entire system falls apart, which is why I believe in transparent and fair elections.

00:49:10.000 And this idea that Georgia somehow has oppressive voter laws, they have 18 days of early voting, way more than Delaware has.

00:49:18.000 They allow Sunday voting, which is sold to the polls, which is I'm sure something you're very well aware of.

00:49:23.000 So that's a misinterpretation of that.

00:49:25.000 So I do believe in constitutional voting, which is leave it to the states.

00:49:28.000 Let the states do what they want to do with voting.

00:49:30.000 And that goes with gun laws as well as voter laws. 0.99

00:49:33.000 All right.

00:49:33.000 So let me make the connection.

00:49:34.000 Okay.

00:49:35.000 Constitutional carry in Texas, no ID, no permit.

00:49:39.000 Again, I think you're oversimplifying that law.

00:49:41.000 Let me tell you why.

00:49:42.000 There are federal laws like the Brady bill in 1986 that says that felons cannot buy weapons, that the federal agents are able to get subpoenas against weapons.

00:49:50.000 You're oversimplifying that.

00:49:51.000 I'm not oversimplifying the Texas law. 0.95

00:49:53.000 The Texas law says we're not going to check a damn thing if you're walking around this state with a gun. 0.80

00:49:59.000 Right. 0.83

00:49:59.000 That's the Texas law. 0.83

00:50:00.000 Which I have no problem with.

00:50:01.000 That's except for acquiring the weapon.

00:50:03.000 Now you have no problem.

00:50:04.000 Well, remember, you can purchase a gun from a private dealer without showing an ID.

00:50:08.000 They don't have to require an idea.

00:50:09.000 You call that the gun show loophole.

00:50:10.000 That's been largely misrepresented.

00:50:12.000 No, pretend you're right.

00:50:13.000 Let me finish the argument.

00:50:15.000 We have to take a 10-second break in just a second.

00:50:16.000 All right, so here's the question.

00:50:17.000 Let me make this quick.

00:50:18.000 Constitutional carry, all good.

00:50:21.000 Voting is a right.

00:50:23.000 Constitutional voting.

00:50:24.000 Ah, wait a minute.

00:50:25.000 Y'all need IDs now.

00:50:27.000 I'm big into constitutional voting.

00:50:28.000 Okay.

00:50:29.000 All right.

00:50:29.000 Now, here's the final point.

00:50:31.000 Everything we're talking about as far as regulatory agencies, mandates for vaccines or masks or protocols for COVID-19 is derived from the Constitution.

00:50:41.000 There are two dynamics that the Constitution allows.

00:50:45.000 No, I never said it was unconstitutional.

00:50:47.000 It might be.

00:50:47.000 I said it's wrong.

00:50:48.000 But if you're not afraid of this.

00:50:48.000 Wait a minute.

00:50:50.000 I'm telling you things that are constitutional that are wrong.

00:50:52.000 Charlie.

00:50:53.000 Not everything that is constitutional.

00:50:54.000 Listen to my point, brother.

00:50:56.000 If you believe in the Constitution, why do you dismiss Article 1, Section 8, Clause 3, or the 10th Amendment of the Constitution, which gives states and gives regulatory agencies and gives school boards these particular powers?

00:51:10.000 These powers are expressions.

00:51:12.000 I don't.

00:51:13.000 But they're expressions of the Constitution.

00:51:14.000 No, no, no, but I say they're wrong to do it, not that they don't have a right to do it.

00:51:18.000 It's two totally different.

00:51:18.000 Okay.

00:51:19.000 So you're making a moral argument against kids wearing a mask to school.

00:51:25.000 Not only that, I'm making a moral argument of imposing oneself into a parent's decision to either have their child wear a mask or not.

00:51:31.000 That's been my argument the whole time.

00:51:32.000 But a private section.

00:51:33.000 I have not made a constitutional argument.

00:51:34.000 You know why I haven't made a constitutional argument?

00:51:36.000 Because the courts are open on this discussion.

00:51:39.000 But the Constitution is not.

00:51:41.000 Again, it depends on state's constitution, it depends on precedents, courts' decisions.

00:51:44.000 You know the law of reciprocation.

00:51:46.000 The state cannot override.

00:51:47.000 Courts change their minds all the time.

00:51:49.000 We had Dred Scott.

00:51:50.000 Praise God, we reversed that.

00:51:51.000 We had the forced sterilization of women in the 1920s. 0.67

00:51:54.000 Praise God, we reversed that.

00:51:55.000 We had Jim Crow. 0.89

00:51:56.000 Praise God, we reversed that.

00:51:57.000 Right.

00:51:57.000 And that wasn't in the Constitution.

00:51:59.000 I'm intentional.

00:51:59.000 Well, some people.

00:52:02.000 Jim Crow was not in the Constitution.

00:52:04.000 But now my 10th Amendment is a good idea. 0.58

00:52:05.000 Bias. 0.86

00:52:06.000 Well, they used the state's rights.

00:52:08.000 Which is your argument right now, which is a bizarre way.

00:52:08.000 Right.

00:52:10.000 No, no, no.

00:52:11.000 They use a state's rights clause and perverted the statute.

00:52:14.000 So we've always had those who mishandled statutory legislation.

00:52:19.000 That's something commonplace.

00:52:20.000 I'm making a moral argument.

00:52:21.000 I had that whole time.

00:52:22.000 And an argument about childhood development.

00:52:24.000 I get it. 1.00

00:52:24.000 But, Charlie, you're literally disagreeing with the damn parents. 1.00

00:52:28.000 The data shows that over 60% of the parents. 0.99

00:52:31.000 What about the 44%? 0.99

00:52:32.000 So you are, let me just make sure I'm clear.

00:52:34.000 We have to take a 10-second break.

00:52:35.000 You are okay with saying the 60% of parents can use force against 40% of the parents.

00:52:41.000 They can use a mandate, yes.

00:52:42.000 They can use a mandate for vaccines.

00:52:43.000 They can use a mandate for dress goals.

00:52:45.000 They can use a mandate for that.

00:52:46.000 So let me ask you this question.

00:52:47.000 If 60% of Americans wanted to take rights away from black Americans, is that okay? 1.00

00:52:52.000 That's a dumbass argument. 1.00

00:52:53.000 Why? 1.00

00:52:53.000 And let me tell you why. 1.00

00:52:54.000 Because that's the argument they used to make for Jim Crow is a democratic argument. 0.77

00:52:57.000 And it was an evil argument back then.

00:53:00.000 I agree.

00:53:00.000 And let me be clear.

00:53:01.000 We're talking about the safety of children and mask mandates inside of a local school system that the majority of taxpaying Americans actually agree with.

00:53:12.000 So in the minority here.

00:53:13.000 We have clarity.

00:53:14.000 I don't believe just because a majority of people believe something they should.

00:53:17.000 Neither do I.

00:53:18.000 But on this case, I'm with you.

00:53:20.000 So we're going to take it.

00:53:21.000 If you guys want to watch the rest of this Charlie Kirk Show podcast, hit subscribe on the Turning Point USA feed.

00:53:26.000 Go to the Charlie Kirk Show and we're going to be back with more.

00:53:26.000 That's it for today.

00:53:30.000 Okay, if you want to take a water break and then we'll keep going.

00:53:33.000 That's okay.

00:53:33.000 All right.

00:53:34.000 Is that okay with you?

00:53:34.000 Yeah, it's good.

00:53:35.000 Are we okay, y'all?

00:53:36.000 All right.

00:53:37.000 Yeah, we're good, right?

00:53:41.000 Okay, we're going to keep going?

00:53:43.000 Hold on, man.

00:53:43.000 Yeah, hold on, brother.

00:53:44.000 Oh, you're younger than me, brother.

00:53:46.000 No.

00:53:46.000 I'm sorry.

00:53:47.000 Do I need some powder?

00:53:48.000 Yeah, we're going to get you crushing out.

00:53:49.000 Yeah, okay.

00:53:50.000 All right.

00:53:52.000 Okay.

00:53:53.000 And we're good.

00:53:57.000 All right.

00:53:57.000 Don't touch the hairline.

00:53:59.000 No, sorry.

00:53:59.000 Oh, no.

00:54:00.000 We're just going to go, why are you watching this?

00:54:06.000 Do you want to hear any more reason?

00:54:10.000 What time is it?

00:54:12.000 Do we want to jump?

00:54:12.000 All right.

00:54:13.000 Okay.

00:54:14.000 Charlie, when is this going to air, brother?

00:54:16.000 Probably next week, right, Joe?

00:54:18.000 Do.

00:54:19.000 And we're going to give you the full file to do whatever you want to do with it.

00:54:21.000 Thank you.

00:54:22.000 All right.

00:54:23.000 Yeah.

00:54:23.000 We good?

00:54:24.000 Do we want to jump into the CRT?

00:54:27.000 CRT.

00:54:28.000 Is that okay with you?

00:54:29.000 Yeah, I'm good with it.

00:54:31.000 Yeah.

00:54:32.000 Do you want to talk about the Biden mandate?

00:54:32.000 Yeah.

00:54:34.000 Which one?

00:54:35.000 Well, yeah, you sound like four of them.

00:54:38.000 The private sector.

00:54:39.000 Yeah, let's segue naturally because I'm going to air this.

00:54:42.000 I'm going to air the whole thing on my podcast, right?

00:54:44.000 And we'll keep going.

00:54:45.000 So we're good?

00:54:46.000 Yeah, I just missed it 5:30, right?

00:54:49.000 Okay.

00:54:50.000 Okay.

00:54:54.000 Tell me when.

00:55:02.000 Okay?

00:55:03.000 Ready?

00:55:05.000 So, welcome back, Charlie Kirk Show podcast.

00:55:07.000 Dr. Richie, you said I made a what kind of argument?

00:55:10.000 Because I compared. 1.00

00:55:11.000 I think I said it was a dumbass or silly. 0.99

00:55:14.000 Elaborate, because I kind of almost cut you off. 0.99

00:55:15.000 I felt bad about that.

00:55:17.000 All right.

00:55:18.000 So I don't remember because you've made so many great points today.

00:55:22.000 Thank you.

00:55:22.000 Well, I know.

00:55:24.000 What I said was this, and it was provocative intentionally, but it got your attention, but it's true, which is that this idea that just because 60% of Americans want something, make it right.

00:55:34.000 And I said they used to use that to justify segregation.

00:55:37.000 Yeah.

00:55:38.000 So my argument is not simply a majority argument.

00:55:40.000 My argument is an argument based on data, safety, my common sense, and also a majority argument.

00:55:49.000 So no way should we compare good faith parents who are trying to genuinely protect their children to some type of misguided, evil, and perverted sentiment of white individuals in the 60s.

00:56:06.000 And I think there is obviously a difference between the two.

00:56:09.000 The point is, though, is that majorities can be wrong, and they can be dreadfully wrong.

00:56:13.000 That's the point I was trying to make.

00:56:15.000 So let's talk about the Biden mandate.

00:56:17.000 You and I were joking.

00:56:18.000 He said, I want to talk about the Biden mandate.

00:56:19.000 I said, which one?

00:56:20.000 Go ahead.

00:56:21.000 You know, it's interesting.

00:56:22.000 So it's not a mandate.

00:56:23.000 Let's talk about private sector because that's what's in the headlines, right?

00:56:29.000 The Joe Biden mandate, and I'm using air quotes intentionally, is not a mandate at all. 0.96

00:56:36.000 And shame on Democrats, damn it, for not knowing how to tell people what this was.

00:56:43.000 This is a COVID-19 vaccine protocol, but not a mandate. 0.98

00:56:47.000 So literally in the executive action, it says that if you have a private company which has 100 employees or more, then there's a certain protocol this company must adhere to.

00:57:00.000 And that protocol says either you have the vaccine or you take a test once a week, and that's it.

00:57:08.000 That's not a mandate for a vaccine.

00:57:11.000 That's quite the opposite.

00:57:12.000 That's literally telling you there is absolutely no mandate for you to get the vaccine, but there is a protocol to make sure others are safe.

00:57:21.000 Now, a lot of people are, you know, they're raging about this.

00:57:25.000 That would be me.

00:57:26.000 Okay.

00:57:27.000 Once again, you are in the minority for that, by the way.

00:57:30.000 But you're a loud minority.

00:57:32.000 Thank you.

00:57:33.000 And let's talk about where this comes from.

00:57:36.000 OSHA is the regulatory agency that President Biden says will enforce this executive action.

00:57:44.000 Now, first of all, man, OSHA is still trying to figure out how to get tires from the back of certain industries, okay?

00:57:51.000 All right.

00:57:52.000 OSHA does not have the manpower to implement and enforce these COVID protocols throughout the entire country.

00:57:59.000 They're going to write it, and they're probably going to spot check if there's a surge in COVID outbreaks in a particular company, but they are not able to actually implement the law all over the United States.

00:58:11.000 But let's be very clear about OSHA.

00:58:13.000 Once again, I'm back to the Constitution.

00:58:16.000 OSHA was created statutorily in 1970 because of the Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution, where Congress has the ability to create regulatory agencies.

00:58:27.000 And the Commerce Clause says that the federal government can regulate through administrative rule, policy, and law anything that impacts interstate commerce.

00:58:35.000 That is your law derived from the Constitution.

00:58:38.000 The framers of the Constitution were smart enough to realize you do need a federal government with the authority to do this.

00:58:44.000 And listen, this is not an ongoing mandate from OSHA.

00:58:47.000 This is not an ongoing protocol.

00:58:50.000 This is simply a 100-day ETS.

00:58:53.000 That's an emergency temporary standard that ETS expires after 100 days.

00:58:59.000 And after that 100 days, the agency will have to go through all of the bureaucratic process, including public opinion, which is required by federal law, in order to make it a permanent rule.

00:59:11.000 All of this that's happening is within the context and confines of not only the U.S. Constitution, statutory law, and also settled case law that has been well established 1990, Doe versus Steel Workers.

00:59:25.000 And before I forget this part, I want to make it very clear.

00:59:29.000 OSHA by statute can do two things in an ETS.

00:59:34.000 One, when employees may be exposed to substances or agents that may be harmful.

00:59:39.000 And two, Such a standard is necessary to protect employees.

00:59:45.000 You all had no issue with OSHA.

00:59:47.000 You all had no issue with the regulatory powers of the U.S. Congress.

00:59:51.000 You had no issue with the Commerce Clause of the Constitution until it came to COVID.

00:59:58.000 Well, I would say I would probably, I had a lot of issues with the fourth branch of government for quite some time.

01:00:02.000 What I will agree with you, though, doctor, is that, yes, OSHA is so inefficient, so bureaucratic, so slow, and not exactly the most agile government agency that you're probably right.

01:00:13.000 It's going to take them so long, they're not going to come marching into places.

01:00:16.000 But the reason there's the outrage from people like me and employers, because we have 100-plus employees here at Turning Point USA, and we vowed to fight this in federal court.

01:00:25.000 Are you going to comply first, though?

01:00:26.000 Oh, we're not going to comply.

01:00:28.000 No way.

01:00:28.000 Oh, hell.

01:00:29.000 No way.

01:00:29.000 And let me tell you why.

01:00:30.000 Now, first of all, Joe Biden has no business telling us how to run our business here.

01:00:34.000 Now, that's a moral argument.

01:00:36.000 Legally, you know what?

01:00:37.000 The courts might decide with that.

01:00:38.000 And that's going to be a common refrain here because I think the courts can be wrong a lot.

01:00:42.000 The courts were wrong with separate but equal.

01:00:45.000 They were wrong about many other things, right?

01:00:47.000 They were wrong about forced sterilization of women in the 1920s with the same sort of 1905 decision, the Jackson decision that set the precedent for that.

01:00:55.000 And in essence, here's the big issue: is that we, I've made the choice not to get vaccinated.

01:00:59.000 Many of our employees have made the same decision.

01:01:01.000 Some of our employees have made the choice to get vaccinated.

01:01:05.000 All of a sudden, we have now a company where employees are enjoying the added benefit of having medical freedom.

01:01:11.000 Now, you might say, just get a test, go do that.

01:01:14.000 I find that to be a grotesque invasion of how we do our own protocols here in our office.

01:01:20.000 Who are you to say I should have a test or that?

01:01:21.000 What about people that have already had the virus?

01:01:23.000 And basically, the argument, the outrage, if you will, is less about the technicalities, OSHA or the IRS or whatever.

01:01:30.000 No, no, no.

01:01:31.000 This sets the precedent for massive government intervention.

01:01:34.000 For all of a sudden, the federal government usurping employer and employees' rights.

01:01:38.000 That's really where the backlash is rooted.

01:01:40.000 And I definitely understand it.

01:01:41.000 And let me be clear about my point of view.

01:01:45.000 The Biden administration would need to find a way to make sure people that have already contracted COVID and have the antibodies can benefit from some of the same policies he's a reasonable middle ground.

01:01:56.000 They haven't done that yet.

01:01:56.000 Because natural immunity hasn't been talked about at all recently.

01:01:59.000 Right.

01:01:59.000 And so I think they need to make exceptions and caveats for that.

01:02:02.000 Now, let's go to your proclamation about the workplace.

01:02:06.000 Yes.

01:02:07.000 We're at a workplace right now.

01:02:09.000 Okay.

01:02:10.000 This workplace is already regulated by the federal government and by your local government.

01:02:15.000 There are various protocols, mandates.

01:02:17.000 There are compliances that you must adhere to in order to continue to operate legally.

01:02:22.000 Yeah, and OSHA was mostly for construction sites.

01:02:24.000 Let's just be clear.

01:02:25.000 Well, initially, right.

01:02:25.000 Yeah.

01:02:26.000 And biohazard.

01:02:27.000 Yeah, I mean, come on.

01:02:28.000 This is not exactly OSHA's sweet spot.

01:02:31.000 Well, and that may help you out, okay?

01:02:33.000 If you're not going to be compliant, OSHA won't be the activity.

01:02:36.000 I just want to make everyone clear that this is a little bit of a mission creep for OSHA.

01:02:39.000 This is for people that are all of a sudden working in steel workers.

01:02:42.000 Like, that's a legitimate place where you could have it's occupational safety hazard, I think, in Minnesota.

01:02:48.000 And I get your argument, and you're a brilliant person, so I know the argument that you're making.

01:02:53.000 Your argument is this is another expansion of government.

01:02:58.000 This is an intrusion of workplace independence.

01:03:01.000 And I get the argument, right?

01:03:03.000 But I get the other argument better.

01:03:06.000 And the other argument is everybody who works with you, everybody who works in an office, especially if we're talking about 100 people or more.

01:03:13.000 Once again, they're not in a silo, brother.

01:03:15.000 They're not in a silo, Charlie.

01:03:17.000 They go back to a family.

01:03:18.000 They have children.

01:03:19.000 They have parents.

01:03:20.000 They have grandparents.

01:03:20.000 They have a peer group.

01:03:22.000 And if the place where they will spend roughly eight, maybe up to 12 hours of their day, right?

01:03:28.000 The place where you may get the most exposed to somebody who has COVID-19.

01:03:33.000 If that place is unwilling to just go through a temporary standard, because by nature of the statute, they can't do it forever.

01:03:43.000 Okay?

01:03:44.000 It's against the law for them to do it beyond 100 days.

01:03:48.000 I think it's a good sacrifice.

01:03:49.000 Listen, I'm a business owner too.

01:03:51.000 I don't want to do it, right?

01:03:53.000 I'm president of Rolling Out Magazine.

01:03:56.000 We have way more than 100 employees.

01:03:58.000 I don't want to.

01:03:59.000 It's not something I'm jumping up and down to do, but I get why it needs to be done.

01:04:03.000 So I understand it from both sides of the argument.

01:04:05.000 So let me, I want to ask you about a couple of things that I'm interested.

01:04:08.000 I think it will lead us in a good direction.

01:04:11.000 And we can get into vaccine efficacy, but we're going to just kind of go back to colliding studies.

01:04:15.000 I'm curious, though, because I saw a tweet that you sent that really fascinated me about how you said you understand black people's skepticism towards getting the vaccine.

01:04:24.000 Because of course, the Tuskegee idea of medical experiments and kind of how federal health agencies have been abusive before, especially towards black people and people of color, something I will fully admit.

01:04:37.000 And so can you help me unpack why you trust the health officials now and why you trust this vaccine?

01:04:45.000 Because some people, like Nikki Minaj and others, are kind of playing into this kind of medical freedom argument.

01:04:51.000 I'm just curious as someone who obviously speaks on behalf of the black community.

01:04:56.000 Yeah, absolutely, man.

01:04:58.000 And I stand by that statement.

01:05:00.000 So anyone who tries to shame black folk, you don't understand the history of black people. 0.80

01:05:05.000 If you try to shame black folks who are vaccine hesitant, you don't understand the reason of their distrust with governmental agencies, period, especially as it relates to healthcare.

01:05:18.000 So I stand by that and I defend opportunities like this because I think it's very important to understand the why, right?

01:05:27.000 You talked about Tuskegee, but it goes deeper than that.

01:05:30.000 We've had localized studies all throughout the United States.

01:05:33.000 Hell, there was one two weeks ago of an actual medical director of a county jail who decided to secretly treat inmates with ivermectin.

01:05:46.000 I reported on that on my show.

01:05:47.000 Well, I don't mind that.

01:05:49.000 Yeah, but come on, man.

01:05:49.000 The secret.

01:05:50.000 That wasn't done, I don't think, to hurt people.

01:05:53.000 But come on, man.

01:05:54.000 But I'm actually leveling.

01:05:55.000 I agree with you that let's pretend he was a racist, which I don't know if he was.

01:05:59.000 And I really don't give a damn if he was racist or not.

01:06:01.000 He was wrong.

01:06:02.000 He's now under investigation by the medical board because these inmates, they learned that they were being treated with ivermectin, brother, on the news.

01:06:12.000 They were literally inside of their pod.

01:06:14.000 Oh, did it work?

01:06:15.000 Watching news.

01:06:15.000 Well, not according to them, because the person that was the whistleblower said, not only did I get, did it get worse, I had stomach issues, I had diarrhea, vomiting, sweating, and they lied, man.

01:06:27.000 They lied to these black folks incarcerated. 0.99

01:06:29.000 So that only, I don't care if he was being treated with one of the approved FDA medications for COVID. 0.69

01:06:36.000 If he was being lied to, it is wrong.

01:06:39.000 So what makes you trustworthy of this regime?

01:06:43.000 I trust Dr. Howard.

01:06:45.000 I trust Dr. Chica Kua.

01:06:47.000 I trust individuals in research science.

01:06:49.000 I trust people at Morehouse School of Medicine where I lecture.

01:06:53.000 I trust these black scientists and black doctors and infectious disease specialists that look like me who have said they were hesitant at first too, but they got involved in the data.

01:07:02.000 They're inside of the science.

01:07:04.000 They're in the research.

01:07:05.000 They're reading the studies.

01:07:06.000 They're conducting some of them and part of some of the clinical trials.

01:07:09.000 And they come on my show.

01:07:11.000 They talk to me personally.

01:07:12.000 I have a communion with these brothers and sisters, and I trust them because their process was like mine.

01:07:18.000 It matured to this place because they, even though they're in the medical field, they were hesitant too, brother.

01:07:26.000 But once again, COVID impacts what community more than any other community.

01:07:32.000 Who's more likely to die from a COVID virus than any other group?

01:07:36.000 This is a perfect segue into race in America. 0.65

01:07:39.000 All right.

01:07:39.000 So you know the answer to that.

01:07:40.000 Black folks.

01:07:41.000 It's local. 1.00

01:07:41.000 Black folks are more likely to die from COVID. 1.00

01:07:45.000 Let's put race aside, which I can't put race aside because I'm black. 0.99

01:07:49.000 Okay. 0.99

01:07:49.000 So poor white people are just as likely to be as this as a poor black person. 0.99

01:07:53.000 You got to look at this in class, not based on race. 0.93

01:07:56.000 And you could agree with that, right?

01:07:56.000 Okay.

01:07:58.000 Charlie, I think access to health care has something to do with it.

01:08:02.000 That goes back to your economic or financial strength and ability and platform.

01:08:06.000 But when you look at the communities that are dying more so from a COVID infection, you're talking about black communities.

01:08:13.000 Why do you think that is?

01:08:14.000 I think it's a plethora of reasons.

01:08:15.000 I think it's because of the disparity in healthcare relationships.

01:08:20.000 I think it's partly due also to issues related to our medical background and sometimes even genetics and diet.

01:08:29.000 All of this contributes to COVID-19 variables hurting certain communities worse.

01:08:34.000 But when you look at our disconnect from being able just to call a doctor, right?

01:08:42.000 I talk to these folks every day, man.

01:08:44.000 There are some black folks who don't even have a physician, brother. 0.66

01:08:48.000 All right. 0.92

01:08:48.000 You think they're going to trust a vaccine? 0.92

01:08:52.000 They don't have anybody that's really common to them that they can talk to about it.

01:08:55.000 And there's so much misinformation from these outlier studies and from Donald Trump politicizing the whole damn thing, even though he got the vaccination himself and also wore a mask himself.

01:09:05.000 This misinformation has harmed communities that are not in the flux of information or connected to medical health care.

01:09:13.000 So let's talk just kind of generally about race.

01:09:17.000 This is kind of segue the whole conversation, if that's okay with you.

01:09:21.000 Do you think America is a systemically racist country? 0.97

01:09:23.000 Hell yeah. 0.97

01:09:26.000 Tell me why.

01:09:27.000 Systemic racism.

01:09:29.000 Let's first define the systemic racism is different than racism.

01:09:35.000 I think we can all agree that racism exists in America, right?

01:09:39.000 You agree with me on that.

01:09:40.000 Oh, totally.

01:09:40.000 Right.

01:09:41.000 Racism exists.

01:09:42.000 We have one as president. 1.00

01:09:44.000 Damn, Biden, was Trump one too? 0.99

01:09:46.000 Absolutely not. 0.99

01:09:47.000 I don't know if we have time for that debate.

01:09:49.000 All right.

01:09:50.000 So, Charlie, think about systemic racism this way: systemic racism is typically what we call implicit bias.

01:09:58.000 It's unconscious, it's not really known to the individual distributor of the racism.

01:10:07.000 It's also codified in statutes, institutions, laws, et cetera.

01:10:12.000 I will give you an example of an early form of systemic racism.

01:10:17.000 The Declaration of Independence refers to Native Americans as savages.

01:10:22.000 That was acceptable language at that time to refer to Native Americans.

01:10:25.000 Why did they use that language?

01:10:27.000 Just you asked them.

01:10:29.000 I mean, that's directly.

01:10:30.000 That's because they wrote about it because they were killing their women and children.

01:10:32.000 It wasn't because they hated them controversy.

01:10:35.000 Think about it, brother.

01:10:36.000 Trail of Tears.

01:10:38.000 Well, that's Andrew Jackson.

01:10:39.000 That's a different generation of leaders.

01:10:41.000 No, man, we don't talk about that. 0.92

01:10:43.000 That was a bunch of white folks slaughtering natives on this land against a federal court order. 0.99

01:10:47.000 So happy to talk about indigenous and kind of Euro-American relations, but finish the point of systemic racism. 0.58

01:10:55.000 So systemicism.

01:10:55.000 I don't want to get away from what we're.

01:10:57.000 Systemic racism.

01:10:59.000 That's an ancient formation of it.

01:11:01.000 Let me go to a modern one, right?

01:11:04.000 Systemic racism and marijuana.

01:11:06.000 You have individuals.

01:11:07.000 So sentencing reform is what sentencing issues, right?

01:11:10.000 Part of it.

01:11:10.000 Okay.

01:11:11.000 So I give you a personal story.

01:11:13.000 Five years ago, when I first became a professor, right?

01:11:16.000 I'm in class, man.

01:11:17.000 There's this guy.

01:11:19.000 He's from the same hood I was from.

01:11:22.000 So I connected to this guy like that because for you to come be in my class from that neighborhood, you have done something miraculous, right?

01:11:32.000 Four weeks into the semester, semesters are 15, 16 weeks.

01:11:35.000 Four weeks into the semester, he gets this letter from financial aid saying that he did not get approved for financial aid.

01:11:43.000 Guy had no issues with his credit.

01:11:44.000 It's not even based on credit.

01:11:46.000 He didn't know what this was coming from.

01:11:47.000 So I said, listen, send me the email.

01:11:49.000 I will investigate, right?

01:11:50.000 I go to the financial aid director on behalf of this kid.

01:11:53.000 He had a minor marijuana possession conviction at 17 years of age, less than an ounce.

01:11:59.000 Four guys riding in the car, one bag of marijuana.

01:12:02.000 Nobody took the blame.

01:12:03.000 They charged all of them, right?

01:12:05.000 He can never have financial aid in his life.

01:12:08.000 Now.

01:12:09.000 Okay, go ahead.

01:12:10.000 Sorry.

01:12:10.000 All right.

01:12:11.000 Here's the systemic issue.

01:12:13.000 According to all of the research science, white people use marijuana at the same rate as black folks, but are five times more likely to be arrested for it and actually charged. 0.96

01:12:26.000 Blacks are. 1.00

01:12:27.000 Excuse me. 1.00

01:12:28.000 Blacks are. 1.00

01:12:28.000 And charged with the use or the possession without giving remedy for pre-trial diversion and other programs. 1.00

01:12:38.000 That's systemic because a lot of these prosecutors who gave these prosecutory discretions to white communities, right?

01:12:47.000 They didn't give them to the black communities they served in as well.

01:12:50.000 So let me ask you a question.

01:12:51.000 Yes.

01:12:52.000 Is that a race issue or a class issue?

01:12:54.000 Once again, you cannot disconnect.

01:12:58.000 So for example, for the poor family in Southeast Ohio that is mostly white, and they get arrested with an opioid charge, trafficking opioids, let's say they earn $32,000 a year.

01:13:10.000 Okay.

01:13:10.000 Let's just do an hypothetical near Athens, Ohio.

01:13:14.000 They're going to have a tough time navigating the court system, just like that young man you just mentioned.

01:13:19.000 The point is, why racialize it when class, which is a much more fair and independent marker, would do?

01:13:26.000 The point is, what I'm saying.

01:13:26.000 Why do I try to disconnect?

01:13:28.000 Well, because class is a...

01:13:29.000 You're going to have to.

01:13:30.000 So go ahead.

01:13:31.000 I don't mean interrupt, but I want you to understand the way the variables work.

01:13:35.000 Class is a social perspective, right?

01:13:38.000 Class is a social perspective.

01:13:39.000 I mean, if you're earning $40,000 a year, you're objectively at the lower level.

01:13:45.000 But still, there are some people that don't give a damn what you make.

01:13:47.000 I'm one of them.

01:13:48.000 So if we're talking about classism, we're talking about a social perspective, meaning I interpret you a certain way.

01:13:55.000 No, no, no, but hiring an attorney is not an interpretation, right?

01:13:58.000 So let's give an example.

01:13:59.000 Denzel Washington's kid, if he's pulled over with marijuana, he's getting off, right? 0.90

01:14:05.000 He's a black guy.

01:14:05.000 LeBron James, I could go through the list, right?

01:14:08.000 Now, those are outliers to go kind of to a theme you've been saying, but it means nothing if they're black. 1.00

01:14:13.000 In fact, it means can you hire the best attorney to get them off the track?

01:14:16.000 So let me give you another data set that's actually available for your review.

01:14:21.000 Job applications, another systemic issue of racism, okay?

01:14:27.000 Multiple universities have done this study over and over again.

01:14:31.000 Some of these universities have tried to disprove the previous studies that were done.

01:14:35.000 I was going to cite the ones that disproved it.

01:14:37.000 So we'll just have a study collision.

01:14:39.000 That's right.

01:14:39.000 But the majority of...

01:14:40.000 I'm familiar with what you're about to say.

01:14:42.000 But you know the majority of the students.

01:14:43.000 You know who debunked it was Thomas Soule.

01:14:45.000 Okay.

01:14:46.000 Soule has a bias ingrained in his economic policies already.

01:14:50.000 He's a black American.

01:14:51.000 Yeah.

01:14:51.000 Soul?

01:14:52.000 He grew up in the middle of the day. 0.91

01:14:53.000 I don't give a damn. 0.79

01:14:54.000 See, that's the part. 0.64

01:14:55.000 Proximity.

01:14:57.000 See, when you say something like that, Charlie, you know why that's offensive to me?

01:15:02.000 I didn't mean that as offensive, but I want you to understand what that means.

01:15:05.000 Because he's from the hood, I'm supposed to agree with him.

01:15:09.000 We're not monolithic.

01:15:10.000 No, no, no, but you were just making arguments from authorities saying that you are from the hood.

01:15:14.000 But I am.

01:15:15.000 See, this is just a fact.

01:15:16.000 But just because he is, it doesn't mean that I agree with his ideology.

01:15:20.000 And just because he's an American black person doesn't mean I agree with his political philosophy or economic philosophy. 0.98

01:15:26.000 Here's the point.

01:15:27.000 But I still want to make, I still want to finish the point, and then I'll, yeah. 0.99

01:15:31.000 I don't forgot the damn point. 0.98

01:15:32.000 All right. 0.99

01:15:32.000 It was something about job workforce applications. 0.99

01:15:35.000 All right.

01:15:36.000 So the majority of the studies show that if you put in an application, you list your education experience, you put in an ethnic sounding name, you don't get called back at least 20% or more drop-off rate for those who have an ethnic sounding name.

01:15:54.000 Same application submitted, same company, boom, put a white sounding name on that application.

01:16:00.000 Study after study show that with the same background, same educational information, they got a call back 20% higher or more than the application that was the exact same with the ethnic sounding name.

01:16:15.000 Now, I mean.

01:16:16.000 There are studies that debunk that.

01:16:18.000 A minority of studies have that.

01:16:20.000 Seoul wrote a whole book on that, right?

01:16:21.000 With discrimination and disparities.

01:16:23.000 I'm not going to be here because to get into the details of that, you know them better than I do.

01:16:27.000 But I want to broaden it where it actually could be helpful for our viewers to kind of see where they might fall on this.

01:16:33.000 Which I guess the question is: you say, yes, America is systemically racist, right?

01:16:37.000 Yes.

01:16:37.000 That means the systems and the laws reflect a desire to get outcomes different for white people.

01:16:42.000 Well, they were written by people that were racist.

01:16:45.000 Like, like who?

01:16:46.000 Who wrote the Constitution?

01:16:47.000 Were they racist?

01:16:47.000 James Madison was not a racist.

01:16:49.000 Come on, man. 0.80

01:16:49.000 Alexander Hamilton was a racist. 0.80

01:16:50.000 If you can own black people and then write, let's ask the question then. 0.98

01:16:54.000 Yeah. 0.89

01:16:54.000 So if you own black people, you don't think you're racist if you own black people. 0.89

01:16:57.000 So how many states had already abolished slavery by the Constitutional Convention?

01:17:01.000 That's fine, brother.

01:17:02.000 You can make that argument.

01:17:03.000 Nine out of 13.

01:17:04.000 You can make that argument all day.

01:17:05.000 They were ending slavery, Dr. Seymour.

01:17:07.000 Who framed the Constitution thought black folks were property?

01:17:12.000 Okay, let's go get away from that.

01:17:14.000 No, this is super important.

01:17:15.000 I'm glad you brought it up.

01:17:16.000 All right.

01:17:17.000 Show me one time James Madison, Alexander Hamilton, John Jay, said that.

01:17:22.000 In order to be a racist, in your opinion, or in order to be discriminatory against a group, you must say it out loud.

01:17:30.000 Okay, so that's your premise?

01:17:31.000 No, no, no, no, it's not.

01:17:32.000 So let me say this.

01:17:33.000 What about the behavior of the family?

01:17:34.000 The founders, let's talk about it.

01:17:36.000 The founders were anti-racist, to use an Ibermax-Kendi term.

01:17:39.000 We are all born into a world we did not create.

01:17:42.000 You agree, right?

01:17:43.000 That's right, brother.

01:17:44.000 So thousands of years before Thomas Jefferson walked the earth, George Washington, Whitfield, Adams, all these guys, slavery existed.

01:17:52.000 The question should be: who started the movement to stop it?

01:17:55.000 The first ever anti-slavery convention was hosted in Philadelphia in 1775, chaired by Benjamin Franklin.

01:18:02.000 1776, the Virginia Declaration of Rights was written by George Mason, which proclaimed that all men are created equal, which heavily inspired the Declaration of Independence.

01:18:10.000 Let me finish.

01:18:11.000 Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence, and Vermont was so inspired by that, they were the first sovereign community of people to abolish slavery.

01:18:19.000 Okay.

01:18:19.000 Now keep on going.

01:18:20.000 All right.

01:18:20.000 In the continent.

01:18:21.000 They own black people. 1.00

01:18:23.000 They weren't allowed to in Vermont.

01:18:25.000 Why did framers of the Constitution own black people?

01:18:27.000 Some did, some didn't.

01:18:28.000 Why?

01:18:28.000 But why did some with the people?

01:18:29.000 Because the tradition predated them.

01:18:31.000 And they were.

01:18:31.000 The tradition.

01:18:32.000 Yeah, the traditional state of the world.

01:18:34.000 You did to hide behind tradition.

01:18:36.000 Hold on a second.

01:18:37.000 First of all, there's more slaves in the world than there ever have been before, and there's still slavery happening on this continent.

01:18:42.000 It's not illegal.

01:18:43.000 And it's inexcusable, and it's illegal.

01:18:45.000 It doesn't matter.

01:18:46.000 You should be thanking Thomas Jefferson for saying in the Constitution.

01:18:50.000 I thank Harriet Todd.

01:18:51.000 Let me finish, please.

01:18:52.000 Let me finish.

01:18:53.000 Thomas Jefferson signed the moratorium saying no new slaves are allowed to come into the United States as one of his first acts as president in 1807.

01:19:01.000 The question should not be whether or not slavery existed.

01:19:04.000 The question should be, why was it starting to end?

01:19:07.000 That's the most important question.

01:19:09.000 Well, probably for you from your perspective, but for me, all of it is very important.

01:19:14.000 So let's talk about not only the racism of those who wrote the Constitution, but the sexism as well.

01:19:22.000 Sexism.

01:19:23.000 Oh, absolutely, brother.

01:19:25.000 No, let's talk about names.

01:19:27.000 Tell me why James Madison.

01:19:28.000 Well, I'm going to get to this.

01:19:30.000 Let's be general.

01:19:30.000 Like, let's get specific, right?

01:19:33.000 Let me give some background to my proclamation because it may be provocative for some, okay?

01:19:38.000 And intentionally so.

01:19:41.000 We call this place a democracy.

01:19:42.000 You believe that?

01:19:43.000 No, it's a republic.

01:19:45.000 The framers of the Constitution wanted a representative government, right?

01:19:49.000 But they wanted a republic, not a democracy.

01:19:51.000 So we're not agreeing.

01:19:53.000 And there's different.

01:19:54.000 Listen, we're splitting hairs on that.

01:19:55.000 Well, it's important.

01:19:56.000 Because a republic is a representative form of government.

01:19:59.000 That's the definition now.

01:20:00.000 I agree.

01:20:00.000 I'll give you a representative form of government, but I will not use the word democracy.

01:20:04.000 Okay, and that's fine.

01:20:05.000 That's a distinction without a difference, by the way.

01:20:07.000 No, it's not.

01:20:08.000 One has naturally enshrined rights.

01:20:11.000 One has the will of the majority.

01:20:12.000 All right.

01:20:14.000 So let's go to who could vote in that republic based on their writing of the Constitution.

01:20:21.000 At the ratification of 1787, whoever the states deemed okay.

01:20:27.000 Now, the question you might bring up is the three-fifths clause, right?

01:20:30.000 But not only that.

01:20:30.000 No, no, no.

01:20:31.000 But why did that?

01:20:32.000 That's actually not what I'm bringing up.

01:20:34.000 Why did they put that in?

01:20:35.000 To help actually limit the power of the slave-owning system.

01:20:38.000 I get it.

01:20:38.000 That's another argument.

01:20:39.000 We'll be here all day for that.

01:20:41.000 Because they wanted to limit slavery.

01:20:43.000 And I'm going to tell you something, brother.

01:20:45.000 I do not give a damn about what you think their intention was.

01:20:52.000 But they wrote it.

01:20:53.000 Any document that says that me or my people are three-fifths of an actual person is a flawed document.

01:21:03.000 So let me ask you a question.

01:21:04.000 But let me make sure I make a full representation that slavery would have existed well past the Civil War.

01:21:10.000 Just to work out.

01:21:11.000 Here's what they should have done.

01:21:12.000 And I still need to make my point about sexism.

01:21:14.000 No more.

01:21:14.000 Okay, for God.

01:21:15.000 I'll write it down.

01:21:16.000 All right.

01:21:17.000 Here's the bigger point.

01:21:19.000 You're splitting hairs on the three-fifth compromise.

01:21:21.000 That's what you're splitting hairs about because this was a population configuration in order to determine the electoral college matrix of that particular state so that they could have a national South Carolina and Georgia wanted it, not to give blacks a voice.

01:21:21.000 Okay.

01:21:35.000 They wanted them to become a creature.

01:21:36.000 To manipulate the system.

01:21:37.000 They wanted them to be counted as a population.

01:21:37.000 Right.

01:21:40.000 Now, here's what the good-hearted people should have done if they were actually good-hearted. 0.97

01:21:45.000 You create a process and you make them citizens, damn it, or you tell the Southerners that they have to stop the mandate. 0.96

01:21:53.000 So let me just be clear. 0.98

01:21:54.000 You are now moralizing people in 1780. 0.95

01:21:57.000 You damn right I am. 0.96

01:21:58.000 Really? 0.98

01:21:59.000 Absolutely.

01:22:00.000 100%.

01:22:01.000 Moralizing the hell out of them.

01:22:02.000 So you moralize Noah, David.

01:22:07.000 I mean, you're a Christian.

01:22:09.000 How about Solomon?

01:22:10.000 We shouldn't listen to him.

01:22:10.000 Too many wives.

01:22:11.000 Yeah, he found that out. 0.88

01:22:12.000 He was an adulterer. 1.00

01:22:14.000 He found out he had too many damn wives. 1.00

01:22:15.000 He almost lost his entire life because you look at slavery and bear them by the fruit and say, wow. 1.00

01:22:21.000 Wow, so let me go back to the sexism.

01:22:23.000 Because that's such a, just respectfully.

01:22:25.000 That's fine.

01:22:26.000 That's such a prideful way to view history, isn't it?

01:22:29.000 How dare you be like as smart as I am?

01:22:32.000 How dare you own my ancestors?

01:22:34.000 They actually tried to eliminate it.

01:22:34.000 Well, they didn't.

01:22:36.000 But they owned them.

01:22:37.000 They did own them.

01:22:37.000 No, they didn't.

01:22:39.000 Not every single founder.

01:22:40.000 Not every founder.

01:22:40.000 They didn't have any admitted.

01:22:41.000 There was a minority of them that did not.

01:22:43.000 Let's talk about it.

01:22:44.000 And those are some of the decent guys because they took a stand.

01:22:48.000 But, man, women couldn't even participate in the Republic. 0.97

01:22:50.000 So let's talk about the Northwest Ordinance.

01:22:52.000 It was written to make sure that women couldn't even participate. 0.75

01:22:54.000 Do you stand by that?

01:22:54.000 Let's talk about it.

01:22:55.000 Of course not.

01:22:56.000 But let me talk about the Northwest Ordinance.

01:22:58.000 Northwest Ordinance was the new territories, Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, which they were asking ourselves, what do we believe?

01:23:05.000 This new territory, Article 6 of the Northwest Ordinance, ratified by every single state, said slavery is illegal in the new territories.

01:23:13.000 So if they were getting rid of slavery, why shouldn't we praise them?

01:23:16.000 Yeah.

01:23:17.000 So thank you for bringing that up.

01:23:19.000 And as long as they own slavery or owned slaves and engaged in the enterprise of slavery.

01:23:24.000 They didn't.

01:23:24.000 They were trying to end it.

01:23:25.000 But they owned them.

01:23:26.000 But listen, Charlie, I want you to hear me.

01:23:29.000 You blame me for moralizing them while you're praising them.

01:23:33.000 Oh, I'm totally praising them.

01:23:34.000 And you're going back.

01:23:34.000 Okay.

01:23:36.000 Because all human beings have to struggle with when they're born and what's around them and things they can't control.

01:23:41.000 Why is it that all of the framers of the Constitution didn't own slaves?

01:23:45.000 They didn't.

01:23:46.000 I know.

01:23:47.000 That's the point.

01:23:48.000 It's because the point is that they were moral enough to say, hell no, we will not own a human being.

01:23:56.000 Others were immoral enough to say, hell yeah, we will own it.

01:24:00.000 So they're complicated.

01:24:02.000 How do you interpret someone like Thomas Jefferson?

01:24:03.000 Come on, man.

01:24:04.000 Someone who said Thomas Jefferson, who advocated for the elimination in slavery in Virginia, signed the moratorium of new slaves, but owned slaves himself and released them, had a child with a slave.

01:24:14.000 That's a complicated person, aren't we all?

01:24:16.000 So let's go back to something that I want you to understand from my point of view.

01:24:20.000 Slavery wasn't just about being enslaved, okay?

01:24:24.000 Slavery was also, and I've done a trace of my lineage, right? 0.98

01:24:31.000 Slavery was also about the slave owners who could legally rape black women, who could molest black children, who could kill without any penalty or repercussion from the government. 0.96

01:24:43.000 It was more than just the labor, brother. 0.98

01:24:46.000 That's my point to you.

01:24:47.000 It was more than just the blood, sweat, and tears equity to build a nation.

01:24:53.000 It was also the evil atrocities within the construct of a limitless environment to do what you wanted to do to another human being without penalty.

01:25:04.000 So you, just a couple things, and then I'd like to get your opinion on another person in history, which is the founders at nine out of 13 estates had already abolished slavery.

01:25:13.000 It was on the way out, Doctor.

01:25:15.000 It was being killed until the Cotton Gin, Eli Whitney, and John C. Calhoun, who I believe is one of the villains of American history. 0.70

01:25:23.000 But how should we view a man like Abraham Lincoln?

01:25:27.000 I'm curious.

01:25:28.000 You know, Abraham Lincoln did what he did out of political necessity.

01:25:31.000 And we talk about, we uplift these individuals.

01:25:34.000 And you're right, they are complex characters.

01:25:36.000 And we all are, right? 0.98

01:25:38.000 But when we talk about somebody needs to be praiseworthy, Charlie, I would rather you just be neutral, damn it. 0.97

01:25:43.000 I would rather you just say, you know what, this guy's a mixed bag. 0.68

01:25:46.000 I can't praise him, but I can't vilify him because he did this other thing.

01:25:50.000 So I would just call him a mixed bag. 1.00

01:25:52.000 He did some bad.

01:25:52.000 He did some good.

01:25:53.000 Hell, a broken clock is right two times a day.

01:25:56.000 So I would rather you have that opinion of some of these people that did extreme evil and committed massive atrocities against other human beings.

01:26:05.000 But the reason why, and I'll get to Abraham Lincoln in a second, why I think that Jefferson and Tom and Madison and Jay and Hamilton were so amazing is they didn't invent slavery and they never wrote extensively defending it ever.

01:26:18.000 Instead, they made real structural changes to eliminate it.

01:26:21.000 But Abraham Lincoln, isn't that evidence that America made movements towards all of a sudden saying, hey, here's a president who called if nothing is wrong, then slavery is not wrong, who gave the Cooper Union address, who talked about a moral right that all men are created equal, who made the divine connection between the principles of the Declaration.

01:26:38.000 And he matured to that.

01:26:40.000 No, totally.

01:26:41.000 And he matured to that.

01:26:42.000 And isn't that us all, right?

01:26:44.000 That we tried to grow in that.

01:26:45.000 I'm just curious what your opinion is of Abraham Lincoln.

01:26:48.000 No more than I can holistically praise Abraham Lincoln because of some of the atrocities.

01:26:53.000 I also cannot discount some of the progress.

01:26:57.000 I think that's a fair Lincoln bashing going on.

01:27:02.000 Well, that's me on the record about Lincoln.

01:27:04.000 That's what I have to say about Lincoln.

01:27:05.000 So let's go back to systemic racism.

01:27:07.000 And so we kind of define that.

01:27:09.000 So what can I, as a white person in America, do that you can't do?

01:27:14.000 Are we at a place where now at least we're able to make the same choices?

01:27:18.000 If so, then how is America systemically racist?

01:27:20.000 Well, it's not about your perspective of discrimination that happens to me.

01:27:27.000 Okay.

01:27:28.000 It's one about believing the stories of black folks when they tell you.

01:27:32.000 You know, over 90% of black people say they've experienced some level of workplace discrimination or discriminatory activity inside of their social circle.

01:27:46.000 That's a massive number to be discriminated against in that matter.

01:27:51.000 And I think when it comes to, we can look at all the studies, the studies are very clear as far as biases that exist against people of color, et cetera.

01:28:01.000 Biases where?

01:28:02.000 Well, biases in the workplace.

01:28:03.000 Well, biases where you get pulled over by a copying studies.

01:28:06.000 In sentencing structures.

01:28:08.000 The cop thing I'm happy to go into, which is totally misleading, right?

01:28:11.000 Okay. 1.00

01:28:12.000 Which is, you know, a black person is much more likely to shoot and kill a police officer than a police officer is to kill a black person. 0.99

01:28:18.000 But I want to get to something you said because I think that's interesting. 0.99

01:28:21.000 Listen, man, a black person is more likely to be pulled over because they were profiled as black.

01:28:27.000 That's not true. 0.96

01:28:28.000 It's because blacks live in areas that have higher crime and therefore police patrol them more. 1.00

01:28:33.000 No, this has been done by Dr. Roland in Harvard University. 0.92

01:28:37.000 Let me give you a study.

01:28:38.000 Again, we're going to go study.

01:28:40.000 So let me just give you one.

01:28:41.000 Whatever one you got, I got three.

01:28:43.000 Out of New York, right?

01:28:44.000 Out of New York, this came from their own data.

01:28:47.000 New York reported this.

01:28:49.000 Chicago reported it.

01:28:51.000 Maryland reported it.

01:28:52.000 You got a lot of them.

01:28:53.000 They said, listen, we're pulling over black folks in this community at a rate 10 times higher than any other racial group.

01:29:03.000 And we're not finding any higher percentage of contraband or illegal activity than the...

01:29:09.000 The illegal activity is not true.

01:29:10.000 Cops make up 50 plus percent of the, I mean, not cops, blacks make up 50 plus percent of the cop killers in New York. 0.97

01:29:15.000 They come on man. 0.93

01:29:16.000 Every single statistic is that there's a disproportionate amount of crime committed in New York versus the percentage quartile.

01:29:22.000 But that's fine.

01:29:22.000 I mean, I'm going back to the systemic racism issue that police departments have reported on themselves and then invited diversity experts because these cops see a problem in their own implicit bias, their own implicit bias.

01:29:40.000 So you're arguing something that they actually agree we have implicit bias.

01:29:46.000 So when we looked at our pullover ratios, when we looked at who we're actually engaging with based on a, what's called a pretextual stop, they tend to be black and brown.

01:29:56.000 And we need to stop doing that based on a profile structure.

01:30:00.000 And they have brought in diversity experts to help them understand, acknowledge, and hopefully eliminate their own bias.

01:30:06.000 So I just want to give a shout out to, I think it's Dr. Roland Breyer.

01:30:10.000 I could be wrong.

01:30:11.000 Harvard University black professor who said there is no evidence of what you just said.

01:30:16.000 But again, that's a lie.

01:30:17.000 But again, you could go debate him.

01:30:18.000 That's the point.

01:30:19.000 Let me say, what's his name again?

01:30:21.000 I could get it wrong.

01:30:21.000 It is Dr. Roland Breyer.

01:30:23.000 If Dr. Roland Breyer said, where you camera from your camera right now, Harvard University. 1.00

01:30:26.000 You're a damn liar. 1.00

01:30:28.000 And I would appreciate you to debate me any day. 1.00

01:30:30.000 Whoever said that. 0.99

01:30:33.000 But if he said there's no evidence to suggest that, that is a damn lie. 0.99

01:30:37.000 Let me ask you a question. 0.98

01:30:38.000 When Obama's DOJ studied police departments, why didn't they find that sort of policy profile?

01:30:44.000 No, they didn't.

01:30:45.000 But they did.

01:30:45.000 Wait a minute.

01:30:46.000 Wait a minute.

01:30:46.000 No, that's in Chicago.

01:30:47.000 Oh, brother, wait a minute.

01:30:48.000 Wait a minute.

01:30:49.000 Wait a minute.

01:30:50.000 Charlie, you know, stepped in it now, Charlie.

01:30:52.000 Not only did the DOJ find bias and racially motivated practices, the DOJ also reported that white supremacists were the greatest domestic threat to infiltrating law enforcement agencies.

01:31:08.000 And that is something that the federal government needs to keep their eye on.

01:31:12.000 That's in the same report.

01:31:13.000 That same report also created it.

01:31:16.000 You are familiar with it, so you know what you just said is bumped.

01:31:18.000 Well, no, the thing that they were talking about was Ferguson in particular, which was a big issue in 2014-15 and found no systemic bias.

01:31:25.000 And also, they did a study in Baltimore, which is another one of that.

01:31:28.000 But we could go study collision back and forth.

01:31:31.000 I guess the question is this.

01:31:32.000 So systemic racism would imply laws.

01:31:36.000 So what law on the books harms black people more than white people?

01:31:41.000 I'll give you one. 0.98

01:31:42.000 Because I could give you a law that hurts white people more than black people. 0.98

01:31:44.000 All right, which one? 0.96

01:31:45.000 Go ahead.

01:31:45.000 Affirmative action.

01:31:46.000 Okay, that's untrue. 0.99

01:31:48.000 Okay, well, a black person with a lower test score is able to go. 0.99

01:31:51.000 It is, I mean, it's true. 0.81

01:31:53.000 I mean, the Supreme Court upheld affirmative action with that sort of thing.

01:31:56.000 I want you to do some homework on this.

01:31:58.000 You know, the number one demographic to benefit from affirmative action?

01:32:05.000 I wouldn't say it would be Asian Americans.

01:32:08.000 You don't know.

01:32:08.000 I'm going to tell you.

01:32:10.000 Tell me. 0.88

01:32:10.000 White females. 0.88

01:32:12.000 White women are part of the Affirmative Action Directive. 1.00

01:32:15.000 White females, based on all of the data of affirmative action and the diversity hires, white women benefit more so than any other demographic under the affirmative action clause.

01:32:28.000 Now, the reason why you assumed it was black people is because you've heard these talking points about.

01:32:34.000 But I have said, though, that we know the data based submitted in the Supreme Court case that black people were being submitted with lower test scores.

01:32:42.000 All right, and by the way, for the record, I disagree with that practice just on the face of it.

01:32:46.000 I'm glad we do.

01:32:47.000 But as far as affirmative action is concerned, the number one demographic that benefits from affirmative action are white people.

01:32:52.000 I'll keep an open mind to that.

01:32:54.000 You might be right.

01:32:54.000 But tell me what laws on the books might benefit black people more, benefit white people more than black people.

01:32:59.000 Because that would go to the argument of systemic race.

01:33:01.000 Absolutely, wouldn't it?

01:33:02.000 And sometimes it's not the policy, it's the culture.

01:33:04.000 So let me put it this way.

01:33:06.000 You can have the right policy in writing.

01:33:08.000 You can have the right policy.

01:33:09.000 But then you have a culture inside of that agency.

01:33:12.000 Culture will eat policy alive every day.

01:33:14.000 So you may have a no-profile policy, right?

01:33:17.000 That's on the books.

01:33:18.000 That's actually part of your standard operating protocol.

01:33:20.000 But you still profile black and brown people because your culture will eat policy alive any day. 1.00

01:33:27.000 And let me highlight a simple law that I think we can all understand. 0.99

01:33:34.000 In the state of Georgia, Senate Bill 202, even Lindsey Grant went on Fox News and said it was a dumbass rule.

01:33:40.000 Senate Bill 202, which is a voter restriction bill. 0.67

01:33:45.000 Republicans spend it as a voter access bill.

01:33:47.000 There's a part of the bill.

01:33:48.000 There are many parts of the bill.

01:33:50.000 There's a part of the bill that says it's a misdemeanor, a crime up to one year in jail if you give someone food or water that's waiting in a line.

01:34:00.000 Now, some people try to say, no, no, no, no, this is if you're electioneering.

01:34:03.000 No, we already had that on the books.

01:34:05.000 It's already illegal to campaign at a precinct.

01:34:08.000 The law was clear.

01:34:09.000 It said anyone, anyone who gives a person food or drink in a line will be punished by up to one year in jail.

01:34:20.000 So you know the practice of warming a line going up to a precinct.

01:34:23.000 But the point.

01:34:24.000 I'm happy to dive into that.

01:34:26.000 But yeah, so why does that affect black people?

01:34:28.000 98% of the long lines in Georgia are black precincts.

01:34:35.000 Number one.

01:34:36.000 Number two, during the last election cycle, churches, nonprofit organizations, these are nonpartisan groups.

01:34:45.000 They ran massive commercials and put out leaflets in black communities.

01:34:49.000 And they said, listen, we know that your precinct always has long lines, okay?

01:34:53.000 That's just the reality in this particular precinct.

01:34:56.000 We want you to come out anyway and vote.

01:34:58.000 And if you do, we got chairs for you.

01:35:00.000 We're going to have food for your mama. 1.00

01:35:02.000 We're going to have water for everybody.

01:35:04.000 And we are nonpartisan.

01:35:05.000 We're not going to tell you who to vote for.

01:35:07.000 That's already against the law.

01:35:09.000 That impacted 98% of black precincts, brother, when they passed a law that said you can go to prison for one year.

01:35:17.000 Even Lindsey Graham said their provision was super nuanced.

01:35:20.000 But if the intention of the people.

01:35:21.000 It is nuanced, but it's not nuanced to black folks.

01:35:23.000 I'm going to ask you about it.

01:35:24.000 I'm going to ask a question about it because I think it's important.

01:35:26.000 So the water thing, it's been months since I've talked about the Georgia bill.

01:35:30.000 I know there was some nuance to it that I've probably forgotten.

01:35:33.000 But SB 202, you said right?

01:35:34.000 That's right. 0.65

01:35:35.000 If it was designed against black people, why did it expand Sunday voting, which helps black pastors go sort of the polls? 0.95

01:35:41.000 See, that's another misnomer. 0.95

01:35:41.000 Why would that happen? 0.95

01:35:43.000 I'm glad to educate you, brother.

01:35:45.000 So what they did in Senate Bill 202 is require a weekend voting standard.

01:35:51.000 On Sunday.

01:35:52.000 See, no, they did not require it on Sunday.

01:35:54.000 That's not true.

01:35:55.000 That's not in the bill.

01:35:56.000 Georgia has 159 counties.

01:35:59.000 Before this state law, Senate Bill 202, each county was able to utilize their own determination as to when they would do early voting or weekend voting.

01:36:10.000 As a matter of fact, brother, most counties did not do weekend voting.

01:36:13.000 Most of them did not.

01:36:14.000 Okay.

01:36:15.000 But the metropolitan counties did.

01:36:17.000 And that's your large concentration of black folks.

01:36:20.000 But it has expanded to Sunday voting.

01:36:21.000 Just listen to me.

01:36:23.000 They were able to do Sunday voting for weeks.

01:36:28.000 These counties could make the rules based on the matrix of the statute that already existed.

01:36:34.000 Okay.

01:36:35.000 If you wanted to do five Sunday votings, you can do it.

01:36:38.000 No problem.

01:36:39.000 Here's what the state did.

01:36:41.000 The state said, okay, y'all, we're going to limit this down to just a couple of weekends where you could choose to do Saturday or Sunday voting.

01:36:51.000 So for the other counties that are ruling white, they now are mandated to do at least one weekend voting standard or two.

01:36:58.000 And the counties that are black, urban, and Democrat, to be frank with you, they now have to limit how many days they do early voting based on the statute.

01:37:07.000 And because of the statewide part of the statute, Republicans can argue it was an expansion, but it limited the metropolitan counties.

01:37:15.000 So I'm not going to know those details.

01:37:19.000 Yeah, but why mess with it is the question.

01:37:21.000 Let me just make sure that they're on a suit. 0.93

01:37:23.000 And I'm going to give you the opportunity to respond.

01:37:24.000 Okay.

01:37:25.000 Which is, I asked, is America systemically racist?

01:37:27.000 You said yes.

01:37:28.000 And the evidence is that all of a sudden there's a restriction of giving out water and voting lines and Sunday voting.

01:37:28.000 Yep.

01:37:34.000 I'm just giving you some examples of how certain laws impact 98% of black communities.

01:37:40.000 You got to admit, you're reaching it straws.

01:37:42.000 No, no.

01:37:42.000 I mean, come on.

01:37:43.000 From arrest.

01:37:45.000 Bring an algene or something.

01:37:46.000 Come on.

01:37:46.000 You get so thirsty in line to vote.

01:37:48.000 I mean, come on.

01:37:49.000 Charlie, Charlie, listen, man.

01:37:51.000 Is that really a forced issue?

01:37:52.000 For you, you can say that from your point of view.

01:37:56.000 We have seen these laws passed that are adversarial to us.

01:38:00.000 I mean, think about this. 0.90

01:38:01.000 You're in a black community. 0.96

01:38:03.000 You're going up to give somebody water. 0.99

01:38:05.000 We don't need any more pretext for arrest.

01:38:07.000 We already know disparities exist.

01:38:07.000 We don't need that.

01:38:09.000 We already know that targeting exists.

01:38:11.000 Disparities don't exist.

01:38:13.000 It does exist.

01:38:14.000 The only need to be able to do that is that the data settle is disparities.

01:38:16.000 It's based on class, not race.

01:38:17.000 But go ahead. 0.94

01:38:18.000 Do some black folk get targeted by white cops? 0.86

01:38:22.000 Has that ever happened? 0.90

01:38:23.000 And vice versa.

01:38:24.000 But has it ever happened?

01:38:25.000 Of course it's happened.

01:38:26.000 Okay.

01:38:26.000 All right.

01:38:27.000 Is it systemic?

01:38:28.000 No, the opposite is actually true.

01:38:30.000 The study showed that cops are less likely to actually arrest and abuse black people and more likely to abuse Asian or white people.

01:38:38.000 That's what the studies have shown. 0.98

01:38:39.000 What in the hell study are you reciting?

01:38:42.000 Anything from the Manhattan Institute to Roland Reyer to Thomas Soule to independent analysis of data. 0.93

01:38:47.000 I will take you to Ohio State University, California, University of California, Berkeley.

01:38:52.000 I take you to Clark Atlanta University.

01:38:55.000 Many of these research scientists have conducted not only these studies in real life, but they've reviewed the data and the data is clear.

01:39:04.000 But when we talk about disparities, man, or racial profiling and systemic prejudice, systemic bias, we're talking about laws that adversely impact a particular group, sometimes intentionally, sometimes unintentionally.

01:39:20.000 Remember, I told you that the bias can be implicit.

01:39:22.000 Now, the Georgia...

01:39:23.000 You can't prove implicit bias.

01:39:24.000 I was going to get to that.

01:39:25.000 Well, implicit bias, that's me giving you the benefit of the doubt.

01:39:29.000 That's me saying, okay, you just wrote a law that only impacts 98% of black people.

01:39:37.000 You just wrote, I'm going to say you were implicitly biased because if I don't say that, I would have to say you were hyper-biased.

01:39:43.000 So let's just be very clear.

01:39:44.000 The reason that was written is because people were giving out things of value in exchange for voting.

01:39:49.000 No, no, sir.

01:39:50.000 That's not why it was written.

01:39:51.000 That was already the law in Georgia.

01:39:52.000 You could not do that.

01:39:53.000 Which is Georgia.

01:39:55.000 And it's against federal election law.

01:39:56.000 That's arguing against something on racism that could be blamed on the state.

01:40:00.000 Let me give you.

01:40:01.000 Now you're in what about is now.

01:40:02.000 So let me go to the anti-gang laws, right?

01:40:06.000 Georgia has them.

01:40:06.000 A lot of states have these gang laws, anti-gang laws.

01:40:09.000 What do they say at the root?

01:40:11.000 They say, if you commit a crime and we can prove that you're part of a gang, we can add this much to your sentence.

01:40:18.000 We can enhance the sentencing dynamic.

01:40:22.000 Charlie, in the state of Georgia, 99% of that clause has been used against black kids.

01:40:32.000 99%.

01:40:34.000 You know how many KKK members have been arrested in Georgia?

01:40:40.000 Plenty.

01:40:41.000 They never charged them with the gang statute.

01:40:44.000 Never.

01:40:44.000 So why do you think you think it's because of racism?

01:40:46.000 Damn right, it's because of racism. 0.98

01:40:48.000 The law wasn't written for, you think the KKK is a higher class than a Crip? 1.00

01:40:52.000 Come on, man.

01:40:53.000 That's the question, isn't it?

01:40:54.000 Okay.

01:40:55.000 So just think about this, brother.

01:40:57.000 You have an anti-gang statute on the books. 0.96

01:41:01.000 99% of your application from prosecutors is to black kids.

01:41:06.000 So what privilege?

01:41:06.000 Even though they are still locking up Klan members and not charging them under the gang statute.

01:41:11.000 I'm not going to get into the specifics because I don't know, but what percentage of gang violence in Georgia is black on black gangs?

01:41:17.000 Yeah, I don't have that.

01:41:18.000 Okay, so that would be helpful, right?

01:41:19.000 To say what that number is.

01:41:21.000 We're going to relate it with prosecutors.

01:41:22.000 We know that. 1.00

01:41:22.000 Do you think if you're a member of the damn Ku Klux Crush? 1.00

01:41:26.000 I'm no fan of the cake. 1.00

01:41:27.000 I got you.

01:41:28.000 If you're a member of them, you're in a gang, right?

01:41:30.000 That's a gang.

01:41:31.000 I would agree that's a gang.

01:41:32.000 Right.

01:41:33.000 I also believe that.

01:41:33.000 That's a gang.

01:41:34.000 It's insignificant, small, and ever-decreasing.

01:41:37.000 It's not an existence.

01:41:38.000 I've never met one of these people.

01:41:39.000 I don't know where they are, who they are.

01:41:40.000 The largest gang bust in the history of Georgia happened three months ago.

01:41:47.000 They arrested 78 gangsters.

01:41:50.000 Eight of them were still at large during that massive arrest.

01:41:54.000 They were called the Ghostface gangsters, all white. 0.52

01:41:57.000 You heard about it?

01:41:58.000 No, I didn't.

01:41:59.000 Isn't that a shame? 0.96

01:42:01.000 Because if it would have been 78 black gangsters, Crips, Pyro Blood, gangster decides. 0.98

01:42:07.000 Come on, brother. 0.60

01:42:08.000 If the largest gang bust in the history of a state and the second largest in the history of the country happened, and you being a person that's a conveyor of news, never heard of it.

01:42:20.000 Why?

01:42:21.000 See, this is the problem is just because there's a disparity doesn't mean there's discrimination.

01:42:26.000 It doesn't mean that there's racism.

01:42:27.000 There's other reasons why there could be disparities.

01:42:30.000 Tell me why.

01:42:31.000 Tell me why.

01:42:32.000 I got all their mugshots on my social media page.

01:42:35.000 Tell me why you never heard.

01:42:36.000 I'm not getting why I haven't heard of it.

01:42:38.000 Maybe because it's not a story that I felt would necessary of covering.

01:42:42.000 Maybe it wasn't on national news.

01:42:44.000 I'm not exactly sure.

01:42:45.000 I agree with you.

01:42:46.000 It should have been, but you can't possibly blame racism on that.

01:42:48.000 So, we only have a couple minutes.

01:42:50.000 Like, we literally have two minutes remaining.

01:42:52.000 I want to give you this opportunity just to kind of make your closing argument and kind of summarize it all together.

01:42:56.000 Man, let me say this, brother.

01:42:57.000 I don't want to make a closing argument to argue with you.

01:43:00.000 Whatever.

01:43:00.000 Just like that.

01:43:01.000 I want to say this to you.

01:43:03.000 You are a brilliant mind.

01:43:04.000 Thank you.

01:43:05.000 What you're doing here.

01:43:06.000 Thank you.

01:43:06.000 What you're doing here is going to provide clarity.

01:43:11.000 We don't have to agree.

01:43:12.000 The push and pull of the republic or the democracy, whatever you want to call it, all right, is based on open, free, transparent, and authentic dialogue.

01:43:23.000 And even though I disagree with you about 90% of the time, you are authentic in what you believe.

01:43:29.000 And, brother, I go to war for you anytime.

01:43:31.000 Thank you.

01:43:31.000 And this sort of discussion is exactly what makes America special and to be able to disagree and still figure out kind of what we're doing.

01:43:38.000 So I just want to make sure I plug all of an opportunity for people to follow you or to engage with you.

01:43:43.000 Please.

01:43:43.000 Absolutely.

01:43:44.000 Social media, Twitter, IG at Rashad underscore Richie.

01:43:49.000 That's R-A-S-H-A-D underscore R-I-C-H-E-Y. 1.00

01:43:53.000 You can check me out on the Young Turks Network, Indisputable with Dr. Rashad Richie, and also my radio program, News of Talk1380, W-A-O-K, the Rashad Richie Morning Show Monday through Friday.

01:44:03.000 Very good.

01:44:03.000 Well, thank you so much, Doctor.

01:44:04.000 It's a lot of fun.

01:44:05.000 Thank you, man.

01:44:06.000 Thanks.

01:44:09.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

01:44:10.000 Email us your thoughts, freedom at charliekirk.com.

01:44:13.000 And if you want to support our podcast, it's charliekirk.com/slash support.

01:44:16.000 We're the organization that put on this wonderful conversation.

01:44:19.000 Something very close to my heart: tpusa.com, tpusa.com, who puts on the series of Debate Night with Charlie Kirk, where we try to find truth through freedom of speech and dialogue.

01:44:29.000 God bless you guys.

01:44:30.000 Speak to you soon.

01:44:34.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - September 23, 2021

Masks on Kids: Science or Abuse? A Debate with Dr. Rashad Richey

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