The courts are going to stop the Trump administration from deporting millions of illegal immigrants. Is there any way to solve this problem? John Yoo, a distinguished visiting professor at the University of Texas at Austin and law professor at UC Berkeley joins the show to explain why.
00:00:13.000What we've inherited from Joe Biden, we talk about Rosie O'Donnell and Dick Durbin in an action-packed episode that I encourage you to text to your friends.
00:00:20.000Email us, as always, freedom at charliekirk.com and subscribe to our podcast that is the Charlie Kirk Show podcast page.
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00:01:27.000Joining us now is John Yu, distinguished visiting professor at University of Texas at Austin and law professor at UC Berkeley.
00:01:33.000So, Professor Yu, I have several questions here.
00:01:37.000What due process is an illegal alien afforded to if they have been here for, let's say, three years?
00:01:43.000And without warrant, without invitation, what kind of due process constitutionally do they have to have before we're allowed to return them to their country of origin?
00:01:56.000Everybody should understand that when we say due process, it means different things in different places.
00:02:02.000So the ultimate form of due process is when you or I are charged by the government with a crime.
00:02:07.000Then we get jury trials, we get Miranda warnings, we get the right to a lawyer.
00:02:11.000Even at the government's expense, we have the right to appeal all the way to the Supreme Court, and so on.
00:02:16.000That's not the kind of due process that illegal aliens get.
00:02:19.000They can get a fairly minimal amount of due process.
00:02:24.000Maybe all the right they have is to be presented for an immigration judge, have the right to claim that they're not who the government says they are, maybe get a right to go to a federal court after that, and then it's done.
00:02:40.000It's not a criminal proceeding where the government has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the alien is here illegally.
00:02:46.000It's a much lower standard of evidence.
00:02:48.000And it can be done quickly and swiftly.
00:02:50.000Okay, so the quickly and swiftly, though, And the way that this is working, though, they're saying that some of these court dates are going to be years of proceedings per illegal alien.
00:03:04.000I mean, we could potentially only be able to deport a couple hundred thousand people under this.
00:03:15.000The reason why it's taking so long is because Congress, for many decades, has refused to pay for enough...
00:03:22.000Officials refuse to pay for enough border agents, refuse to pay for a wall, refuse to pay for enough immigration judges.
00:03:28.000If you could have more immigration judges, you could speed that whole process up.
00:03:32.000And I think that's actually in part what the Trump administration is trying to do when it's trying to deport people under the Alien Enemies Act rather than under the regular immigration laws, is that they're trying to impress on everybody the need for speed and that the speed is really up to Congress.
00:03:51.000And Congress has said they always say they want to help fix the border problem.
00:03:55.000Well, here's their great chance to do it.
00:03:58.000Right. So let's just go a level deeper into this, which is this seems like it's completely and totally unworkable right now.
00:04:05.000People in our coalition are frustrated because it seems like left-wing courts are in fact requiring a full three-year process for every illegal alien.
00:04:13.000Is there any way for the administration to create more immigration judges without direct congressional action?
00:04:19.000Well, this is why this other area that they're fighting about, empowerment and reallocating funding, downsizing the government, closing down wasteful spending, maybe you can move some of that money.
00:04:29.000During this time of emergency, the one thing Trump has done is declared a national emergency at the border because of immigration.
00:04:35.000That gives him the ability, perhaps, to move some more money.
00:04:39.000Also, he has to, I think, fight with these wayward road trial judges.
00:04:43.000There are trial judges in the country who, I think, have gone beyond their constitutional role and are trying to interfere with the executive branch, with the president's rightful authority over national security and immigration.
00:04:56.000But at bottom, it's really a question of resources.
00:05:02.000You have to speed up the detentions at the front level.
00:05:05.000And then you have to fight with the courts, go all the way to the Supreme Court if necessary, to make clear to these lower court judges that they don't have the right, as you say, Charlie, to turn it into a three-year process when it could be less than a year.
00:05:19.000It could be done quickly if there's cooperation between the Congress and the President and the courts.
00:05:24.000Right. So you've raised some questions about Trump's use of the Alien Enemies Act.
00:05:29.000You've obviously had criticisms for the district court judges.
00:05:32.000What is a workable off-ramp here where we uphold the SCOTUS rulings?
00:05:37.000I worry what you see here are you've got these district judges, some of whom want to press and create some kind of constitutional crisis by going beyond their role.
00:05:46.000At the same time, I think there's some people in the Trump administration who could also pull us away from the brink of some kind of confrontation.
00:05:54.000And I actually think the Supreme Court has intervened several times to give the benefit of the doubt to the Trump administration.
00:06:00.000So, for example, when they told the trial judge in this Garcia case, you can't force the government to bring Garcia immediately into court.
00:06:08.000What are you going to do, order the president to invade El Salvador and grab him out of the prison?
00:06:14.000The government has to facilitate his return, but judges have to respect the president's authority under the Constitution into foreign affairs.
00:06:27.000On the other hand, I think Trump has the authority to declare an invasion, but he needs to tell the American people and the courts why we're under invasion, why we're at a state of war with Venezuela, why this Tren del Aragua group is a terrorist group that's acting as an arm of the Venezuelan government.
00:06:45.000The more he can provide that information, the easier it is for the courts to accept it.
00:06:50.000And then we can step away from the brink of some kind of confrontation between the president and the judiciary.
00:06:56.000So, are there any other potential solutions here?
00:07:00.000Because Trump does act as the commander-in-chief, and we know what's happening here, is that far-left-wing activists are trying to slow down the gears of deportation.
00:07:09.000Basically, without a fix here, we will not have mass deportations.
00:07:12.000We'll actually have less deportations than Obama or even Biden did.
00:07:18.000Trump really is doing here, I think he is doing and has to do, is to deter people from coming in the first place, or to make clear if they hit the border, they're going to be turned right around and sent back.
00:07:30.000And so one part of that is showing that we're not going to have the open borders that Biden did, that we're not going to just catch people and release them into the country, that we're going to tighten up the immigration rule process.
00:07:42.000But another part of that is, as you suggest, Charlie, we have to start speeding up.
00:07:47.000The role of the court so that they can't delay every single deportation into a three-year odyssey where people can spend years and years here while their lawyers just delay things in court.
00:07:59.000And so I think there is some value for President Trump fighting these rogue district judges all the way to the Supreme Court.
00:08:11.000I think he's having a lot of effect there.
00:08:18.000Under Biden's worst months in his open borders policy, we were catching or encountering maybe 350,000 a month, illegal aliens a month at the border.
00:08:35.000Strong deterrent, in effect, in order to keep those numbers low and keep them dropping.
00:08:41.000Yeah, we're only on pace right now for about 292,000 deportations a year, largely because of the courts and just kind of slowing it down to this grinding process.
00:08:52.000And so I know that you've argued for executive authority and ability here.
00:08:57.000It's just very hard for our audience to comprehend why is it someone who breaks into our country?
00:09:02.000Should be afforded all of these extra legal rights when they're not a U.S. citizen.
00:09:09.000I know it's very hard for people to understand, but the 14th Amendment's guarantee of due process doesn't only apply to citizens.
00:09:18.000It also applies to all people in the United States.
00:09:22.000So everyone in the United States, even people who get into the country illegally, have a right to due process.
00:09:28.000But the important thing for people to remember
00:09:30.000The government and the courts have recognized that illegal aliens shouldn't get the same level of due process as, say, you and me, Charlie, if we commit a crime.
00:09:43.000That's why they don't get all the protections of the Bill of Rights that you will get in a criminal trial.
00:09:47.000That's why there is the ability to speed up the process, to allow the government to present proof, and to have...
00:09:53.000The alien tried to prove that he's not here illegally or she's here illegally, but then if they lose, they should be deported quickly.
00:10:01.000Maybe it's the case that Congress should expand the number of judges, expand the number of border agents, but then make the due process even lighter and make the process proceed even faster.
00:10:12.000Yeah, I hope that happens, but it does not look good at this point.
00:10:18.000The will of the people will be thwarted by an unelected judiciary, it seems.
00:10:45.000And Trump is sending cases forward that give them the opportunity to control.
00:10:50.000To make clear that these rogue trial judges are not there to try to frustrate the agenda that the majority of Americans support when they elected President Trump to speed up the immigration deportation system.
00:11:04.000That said, the judges are there to make sure that the due process protections are observed and honored.
00:11:11.000And I think there is the possibility of a compromise between the two branches.
00:11:15.000The worst thing can happen is if these rogue trial judges keep slowing things down and frustrates the agenda that the majority of Americans voted for in the immigration area.
00:11:26.000John Yoo, thank you for your time here.
00:11:34.000I certainly hope we have a more optimistic conclusion here because it's not good for anybody, not good for our country, if all of a sudden the people vote for something and they don't not just get it, but they will get so significantly thwarted.
00:15:06.000It's become less of a center of industry and business.
00:15:11.000As Dick Durbin has been a U.S. Senator, we have lost major companies that otherwise would have been headquartered in the great state of Illinois.
00:15:17.000And it is hard for me to even say this, because Illinois should be one of the leading states in the country.
00:15:23.000It's people, work ethic, central geography.
00:15:28.000Illinois should be a leader in industry.
00:16:27.000There's no reason why Illinois should have not kept pace.
00:16:30.000However, Dick Durbin was part of a Democrat mafia that assumed complete control and power of Illinois in the late 1990s.
00:16:37.000Under that mafia, they realized to pander to the public sector teacher unions, to keep taxes high, burdensome regulation, to give Chicago whatever it wants, to not rein in the crookedness of Cook County.
00:16:51.000And it pains me to say this because I love Illinois.
00:17:24.000It's too bad, and it's a tragedy, really.
00:17:27.000And Dick Durbin is largely to blame for that.
00:17:30.000So corrupt, so selfish, so pandering to foreigners over Americans.
00:17:34.000Dick Durbin is retiring in disgrace and he's leaving a worse state as he leaves.
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00:18:43.000Joining us now is Tim Murtaugh, who is the former communications director for Trump 2020 and also the Trump 2024 senior advisor.
00:18:53.000You have a unique premise and vantage point because you warned about so much of Biden's failures in the 2020 campaign.
00:19:00.000And now we actually have to unravel so much of what we've inherited from Joe Biden.
00:19:04.000So talk about some of the predictions you made that came true, some things that were even worse, and the work that now President Trump has to do to unravel this inheritance.
00:19:15.000Yeah, well, it's great to be with you, Charlie, and thanks very much for having me on.
00:19:19.000We did, we tried to warn everybody in 2020 what America would get itself into if Joe Biden became president of the United States, and by God, we were right about almost all of it.
00:19:28.000I mean, you may remember that he ran what everybody was calling the basement strategy, and we said that it was because he wasn't up to the challenge of going out on the campaign trail, articulating his ideas, answering questions coherently from the news media, and actually running a campaign.
00:19:48.000Of course, the national news media said, oh, that was crazy.
00:19:51.000They're just being careful because of COVID.
00:19:53.000He's only hiding in the basement because they don't want him to get sick.
00:19:56.000And then, of course, they all played along the whole time he was in the White House when they were concealing his mental decline and all of that.
00:20:02.000And we said that Joe Biden was going to be a disaster for a lot of things.
00:20:05.000We said he was going to be a disaster on the economy.
00:20:07.000We said that we talked about immigration a lot.
00:20:11.000We said Joe Biden, and if you let Joe Biden and the Democrats be in charge of the White House, they are going to throw open the gates of America, and they are going to let millions upon millions of illegal aliens into this country, basically no questions asked.
00:20:25.000We pointed that out day after day after day.
00:20:28.000Of course, the national news media said, first of all, that's racist.
00:20:34.000Their favorite thing to say was, you know, the Trump campaign claimed without evidence, they used to say.
00:20:39.000Well, now we've got plenty of evidence.
00:20:42.000And of course, President Trump is digging out from under of the, you know, tens of millions of illegal aliens that are somewhere across this country.
00:20:49.000And every single time he does, the Democrats and the news media latch onto these stories.
00:20:55.000We've seen it with the alleged Maryland man and all that.
00:20:58.000And I think this is one of the greatest thing, I think, that President Trump is trying to do is defend the sovereignty of the United States of America.
00:21:06.000And that begins with fighting off the illegal aliens and deporting the ones who are already here.
00:21:12.000So Donald Trump won a triumphant victory.
00:21:15.000What people don't understand, though, is when you win and power is changed from one regime to another, from a Democrat to a Republican, you have to get into the weeds to decouple.
00:21:26.000To decouple away from so much of the decisions the prior administration made.
00:21:32.000And we're still learning about some of the gunk, some of the trash that Joe Biden left us, and also some of the landmines that Joe Biden left us.
00:21:42.000I mean, I hear from agency officials and from cabinet secretaries, they'd say, you have no idea, not just the staffing of the deep state, but...
00:21:49.000Regulatory measures, decisions that were made in the prior administration at the 11 p.m. midnight that can't be undone for a certain period of time or else there's going to be a court injunction.
00:22:00.000Tim, what also is Donald Trump working on as far as things that Joe Biden left him, the landmines and the decisions that he has to course correct on?
00:22:09.000Well, there's one big one that has begun to come to light because President Trump just issued an executive order just last week on this, and it's inside the poorly named—I know everyone loves to name bills on the left.
00:22:21.000They name bills for exactly what they are not.
00:22:23.000But inside the Inflation Reduction Act, which did absolutely nothing to solve the problem of inflation that Joe Biden left President Trump, inside the IRA there was something that's come to be known as the Biden pill penalty.
00:22:37.000And what that is, is Joe Biden favored one form of medicine over another form of medicine.
00:22:43.000He favored what are called large molecule medicines.
00:22:45.000Think of things that you have to go to the hospital for, IVs and infusions, injections, those sorts of things.
00:22:51.000Favored those at the expense and discriminated against pill form medicine.
00:22:57.000And that's just a ridiculous idea because pills...
00:23:00.000are 71% cheaper on average than other forms of medicine.
00:23:07.000They're cheaper for the entire healthcare community.
00:23:10.000And look, patients groups, doctors groups, yeah, pharmaceutical companies, business groups, conservative groups, everyone told the Democrats at that time, if you do this, this is what's going to happen.
00:23:21.000And so it passed with zero Republican votes.
00:23:24.000And what came to pass was exactly what was predicted.
00:23:27.00070%. Three quarters of the R&D dollars have moved away.
00:23:59.000But more likely, it'll be in the, as the president...
00:24:06.000It's the Biden pill penalty, and it really, it's raising costs of the healthcare system.
00:24:11.000Heck, Joe Biden said he was going to be the guy who cured cancer.
00:24:14.000Well, he actually made it more difficult by discriminating against and discouraging the creation of life-saving pills, life-saving medicines that people are used to.
00:24:49.000I have elderly parents and, like most people, other elderly people in my family, and the cost of the system is of great concern.
00:24:57.000And the EO that he signed instructs the Secretary of Health and Human Services, that's Robert F. Kennedy Jr., of course, to work with Congress, specifically mentioned in the EO, is to get rid of what's known as the Biden pill penalty.
00:25:10.000Now, another way that the Biden pill penalty has been terrible, think about generic drugs.
00:25:16.000Generic drugs are a very cost-effective way that a lot of people get their medication.
00:25:21.000Think of Lipitor, for example, which is a well-known cholesterol drug.
00:25:24.000Because of generics, People can get their cholesterol medicine for basically pennies per dose.
00:25:32.000Well, the Biden pill penalty flatly discourages generics from even entering the market.
00:25:38.000And so those cost reductions never occur.
00:25:41.000And Charlie, I know this will resonate with the MAGA community here.
00:25:45.000Guess who has noticed what's going on with the Biden pill penalty?
00:25:49.000You're never going to believe it, but China.
00:25:51.000China knows what's going on, and China knows an opportunity when they see it, and they are investing in pill medicine, research and development in ways that they have never done before because they know that pills are the cheaper way, the more effective way for people to get their medicine.
00:26:07.000People will take the medicine they need if it's convenient to them.
00:26:50.000Well, I'm not exactly sure what I'm going to predict what he's going to put out in executive orders,
00:27:05.000but I can tell you that the America First policies, and you're exactly right, when you're ripping the Band-Aid off and when you're in there digging in and trying to undo some of the stuff that's taken hold.
00:27:16.000Just look at the way that the swamp is reacting to him.
00:27:19.000Look at the way that they're attacking Pete Hegseth, for example.
00:27:22.000Anytime you bring in a starkly new direction of leadership, this is the kind of reaction you're going to get.
00:27:29.000And I love that CNN was forced to admit that it's basically a rounding error.
00:27:34.000Only 2% of Trump voters regret their vote despite what the talking heads say.
00:30:12.000I knew after reading Project 2025 that if Trump got in, it was time for me and my non-binary child to leave the country.
00:30:21.000And although I was not one of the celebrities who announced that that's what I would do, I made the decision within my family and my therapist, and should he win?
00:30:32.000And then when he did, we made the plan into action.
00:30:38.000If a child of Rosie O'Donnell is nonbinary, you can guarantee you that Rosie O'Donnell had something to do with that.
00:30:48.000It's weird how nonbinary weirdos end up with nonbinary children so often.
00:30:53.000If you're 18 and you're trans or nonbinary, you have a mental illness.
00:30:57.000If you're 8 and you're trans or nonbinary, your mother has a mental illness.
00:31:04.000Is she going to make Ireland great again?
00:31:06.000By the way, good luck with her kid in Ireland with all the Muslims running amok.
00:31:10.000See how her non-binary kid is going to do in downtown Dublin.
00:31:15.000I mean, this whole thing feels like an SNL skit.
00:31:18.000The ultimate arc of President Trump's political journey is the self-deportation of Rosie O'Donnell with her non-binary child after reading Project 2025.
00:31:47.000This is the one part of the Alien Enemies Act that I think that President Trump wanted to employ, which is you never know if you're going to be scooped up next.
00:31:55.000That if you are here illegally, you should go back to your country of origin.
00:32:00.000And I will say we finally have something in common with Rosie O'Donnell.
00:32:04.000Rosie has no regrets leaving, and we have no regrets that she left.
00:32:10.000We can finally agree with Rosie O'Donnell about something.
00:32:14.000Finally. President Trump on self-deportation says, quote, we're going to give them a stipend.
00:32:19.000We're going to give them some money and a plane ticket.
00:32:22.000If they're good, if we want to send them back in, we're going to work with them to get them back in as quickly as we can.
00:32:28.000We need to work on people that are going to voluntarily leave the country because unfortunately the courts are going to try to grind down the entire deportation process.
00:32:37.000And that is a threat to the democratic will of the American people.
00:32:41.000President Trump ran on mass deportations and the courts are preventing those deportations from happening.