The Charlie Kirk Show - My Conversation with Michael Malice

00:00:00.000 Today in the Charlie Kirk Show, super important episode.

00:00:00.000 Hey, everybody.

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00:01:00.000 Action-packed episode, everybody.

00:01:02.000 Thank you for supporting us.

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00:01:08.000 Can't forget that.

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00:01:10.000 Here we go.

00:01:11.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:01:13.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campuses.

00:01:15.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

00:01:18.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:01:22.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:01:23.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:01:24.000 His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.

00:01:32.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

00:01:41.000 That's why we are here.

00:01:44.000 Good afternoon, Michael Malice here.

00:01:46.000 Let that be your welcome for the next hour.

00:01:48.000 We have with us a special guest, head of Turning Point USA, author of the new book, The College Scam, Charlie Kirk, king of the boomer cons.

00:01:57.000 Welcome to the show and thanks for taking the time.

00:02:00.000 Hey, we got plenty of students too.

00:02:00.000 Thanks.

00:02:02.000 I'm not just known for a relief factor, but I'll take the compliment.

00:02:06.000 Okay.

00:02:07.000 Before we get started talking about the book, because things have changed a lot since I was in college and nowadays and for the better in many ways and for the worse in many other ways, you were trending last week on Twitter.

00:02:19.000 Hashtag Sue the View was trending.

00:02:23.000 Can you break down what they were accusing Turning Points USA of and why you chose to send a cease and assist letter?

00:02:33.000 Yeah, it was one of the weirdest stories I've ever lived through, to be honest with you.

00:02:36.000 So we have our big Turning Point USA Student Action Summit.

00:02:39.000 We had 5,000 conservative students from all across America attending.

00:02:43.000 And someone came to me and said, hey, Charlie, there's some Nazis outside.

00:02:47.000 What are you talking about?

00:02:47.000 There's Nazis outside.

00:02:48.000 They said, yeah, there's like, there's five or six people with masks on with, you know, swastikas. 0.95

00:02:53.000 And I said, well, get rid of them.

00:02:54.000 I said, this is probably either a Fed or a plant or something.

00:02:57.000 There's no way this is real.

00:02:58.000 It's like some sort of op.

00:03:00.000 And we couldn't get rid of them.

00:03:01.000 They're on public property.

00:03:02.000 Some of our Turning Point USA students go out there and start debating and like shouting at them, like, get away from here.

00:03:07.000 We have nothing.

00:03:08.000 We want nothing to do with this.

00:03:09.000 It's disgusting.

00:03:10.000 Like, how dare you fly a swastika, which I completely agree with, by the way. 1.00

00:03:13.000 It's just reprehensible.

00:03:15.000 And so then.

00:03:17.000 You completely agree with telling them to not fly it.

00:03:20.000 Yeah.

00:03:20.000 I mean, I completely agree with it.

00:03:22.000 Sorry.

00:03:22.000 Go ahead.

00:03:24.000 I agreed with them saying, get the heck off the property, right?

00:03:27.000 Obviously, they have a constitutional right to be there.

00:03:29.000 But if I'm renting out the convention center, I don't want a swastika outside of the convention center. 0.88

00:03:35.000 I don't want to be associated with that. 0.70

00:03:36.000 I think it's disgusting and reprehensible.

00:03:38.000 And so, yeah, anyway, so our security said we can't remove them, public property.

00:03:42.000 They're fully masked, the whole thing.

00:03:44.000 And then they leave.

00:03:45.000 And so then the media wrote up a story and we condemned, obviously, what happened immediately.

00:03:49.000 And the media said, okay, there are these Nazi protesters outside, which again, I will reinforce. 0.98

00:03:54.000 I believe we're Democrat operatives.

00:03:56.000 And I have plenty of reason to believe that.

00:03:58.000 Happy to dive into it if that's interesting.

00:04:01.000 But it's just the evidence is pointing in that direction.

00:04:04.000 In fact, we're dedicating a lot of resources to actually prove it in a variety of different technological ways.

00:04:09.000 But anyway, so we denounce it, we condemn it.

00:04:11.000 You know, there's a couple of media stories about it, and then it dies down.

00:04:14.000 And then the View decides to go do a whole segment on our event where Joy Behar started to say, well, you know, well, outside of the event, they had all this Nazi propaganda and all this.

00:04:22.000 And then Whoopee Goldberg says, Yeah, and they let them into the event.

00:04:26.000 Oh, and so that's that's slanderous, right?

00:04:30.000 And it's so transparently slanderous because, I mean, we, it's well known how we reacted to it.

00:04:35.000 You just have to look it up.

00:04:36.000 We condemned it with a press release, the whole thing.

00:04:38.000 And so then she comes after the break because obviously legal gotten her ear and they said, Whoopee, you can't say that. 1.00

00:04:44.000 And so then she says very sloppily, well, what I mean is that they were metaphorically with you.

00:04:49.000 They were amongst your midst, which again, it's like it's a slanderous apology, right?

00:04:54.000 And so then the next thing.

00:04:56.000 I got to ask, how is someone in your midst if they're in the periphery?

00:04:59.000 Well, the whole thing is so bizarre.

00:05:01.000 By the way, can I just state the obvious?

00:05:03.000 If Nazis are protesting me, am I doing something right?

00:05:06.000 Like, shouldn't that also be part of what they mentioned?

00:05:10.000 But of course not.

00:05:11.000 So then the next day, the third chapter in this multi-chapter thing, they had a woman by the name of Sarah Haynes.

00:05:18.000 So I'm sorry, we sent a cease and desist then over the evening, and then they decide to actually respond to our cease and desist because I think they realize that they might have been over some very trouble, you know, troubling legal footing, especially after Nicholas Sandman and Kyle Rittenhouse and some of these other major decisions.

00:05:34.000 And so then Sarah Haynes, I think that's her name.

00:05:36.000 She seems like a sweet woman.

00:05:37.000 I know nothing about her, her politics, but she had nothing to do with the previous commentary.

00:05:41.000 She reads this thing on air, but she says, okay, Turning Point USA would like us to do this.

00:05:47.000 We are acknowledging they had nothing to do with it.

00:05:49.000 It was actually pretty good.

00:05:50.000 And she said, for that, we apologize.

00:05:52.000 And I thought that was the end of it.

00:05:53.000 Okay, Whoopee's not going to say anything.

00:05:55.000 Then this morning it continues where then Whoopee Goldberg comes out and she says, All right, on Monday, I said that they were part of it.

00:06:04.000 And I hate when people misconstrue things that aren't true.

00:06:07.000 And so, my bad.

00:06:09.000 I'm sorry.

00:06:11.000 And so it's this kind of, we went from the view try to compare us to Nazis to kind of multiple apologies.

00:06:17.000 But I'll tell you this: it would not have happened if we did not respond with force.

00:06:20.000 If we did not respond with a cease and desist letter and threaten legal action, which we're still entertaining, by the way, none of this would have happened.

00:06:27.000 Yeah, I think what there's two things that happened in the last in the post-Trump years, which I'm curious to hear your thoughts about, which is before Trump, and still to some extent to this day, declaring someone to be a racist was enough to read them out of polite society.

00:06:43.000 And frankly, that's not incorrect.

00:06:45.000 If someone is advocating for things like slavery or segregation or like that, I think that's a non-starter for, I think, the vast majority of Americans of both political parties.

00:06:55.000 When Trump came in and they were calling him every name under the book, including literally Hitler, figuratively Hitler, and the Antichrist, that mechanism ceased to be effective, but they stopped using that tool.

00:07:05.000 They continues that to excuse me.

00:07:07.000 And now it's become a point where it's like, wait, wait, wait, wait.

00:07:10.000 How for conservatives, I think, how have we let you for years just accuse us of advocating for genocide and just like, all right, you know, you're in the biggest talk show host.

00:07:21.000 You're on the Karen mothership to view. 0.96

00:07:23.000 We're just going to sit here and just be like, we disagree.

00:07:27.000 Disagreeing is like, you know, you could disagree about tax policy and so forth.

00:07:30.000 To accuse someone of advocating for an extermination of a race, I think is a whole other thing.

00:07:36.000 Yeah, totally.

00:07:37.000 Sorry.

00:07:38.000 That was it.

00:07:38.000 Go ahead.

00:07:39.000 Your thoughts, please. 0.99

00:07:40.000 No, I mean, first of all, just how dumb do you have to be to just not like, hold on a second? 0.95

00:07:43.000 If I'm going to say something on air, would a 5,000-person event with DeSantis and Trump really let Nazis in? 0.99

00:07:48.000 I mean, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. 0.99

00:07:48.000 Like, come on. 0.99

00:07:50.000 That's actually how they view the world, though.

00:07:52.000 They're like, ooh, they must have let them in.

00:07:54.000 Like as if that there is not standards in the conservative movement between, I don't know, Nazis?

00:08:00.000 Like, hello?

00:08:02.000 I mean, you think that that would even be remotely tolerated?

00:08:04.000 But yes, I mean, they're, I call this the weaponized name calling.

00:08:08.000 They used to be able to get conservatives to go into a place of paralysis by just calling us racist, bigot, homophobic, misogynistic, xenophobic.

00:08:16.000 And that just doesn't really work anymore at all.

00:08:19.000 And now all of a sudden conservatives, thanks to Trump, in my personal opinion, have more of a backbone and are willing to fight and are willing to punch back twice as hard.

00:08:28.000 Were you surprised to see how quickly the view folded as opposed to doubling down?

00:08:33.000 Yes, shocked.

00:08:35.000 And I think the one reason is Nicholas Sandman and Kyle Rittenhouse, I think these legal departments are incredibly skittish.

00:08:40.000 And I think we don't know the numbers, but I think we're getting a little bit of indication that the payouts to Sandman were probably pretty sizable.

00:08:50.000 Because think about it.

00:08:50.000 This is very similar.

00:08:52.000 These are minors at an event.

00:08:54.000 Same way they smeared Nicholas Sandman, they smeared our students, right?

00:08:58.000 And so I don't think they did it out of just some sort of commitment to moral centeredness.

00:09:02.000 I think the legal department and ABC got on the phone and said, you're going to do this.

00:09:05.000 You're going to do it now.

00:09:06.000 Non-negotiable because we don't want to be in court, you know, having to contest the $200 million judgment.

00:09:11.000 Yeah, my understanding is there's different kinds of defamation.

00:09:14.000 There's defamation, which is based on actual malice, like they are intentionally lying, but there's also defamation of prima fascia, something fasci, but basically on its face, meaning I'm just accusing you of, you know, musting a child or so on and so forth.

00:09:29.000 It is incumbent upon me to be really sure that I've done my homework before I'm making such an accusation publicly, because it's something that is so defamatory that any reasonable person would look at your reputation in a worse regard.

00:09:43.000 So all it would take would be like one even quasi-reasonable jury to be like, okay, was this person, Whoopi Goldberg, negligent in terms of what she was saying?

00:09:53.000 And is what she was saying the kind of thing that would harm the reputation of Turning Point as an organization.

00:09:59.000 And I think it would not be very hard to make the case for both of those things.

00:10:04.000 Yeah.

00:10:04.000 And some lawyers agree at that.

00:10:06.000 Some disagree.

00:10:06.000 We're in the shopping phase of kind of, I should say, it's discovery and searching phase.

00:10:10.000 Other lawyers say there's all these other thresholds you have to hit because a public figure and all this stuff.

00:10:14.000 But we're not, we are going into it with the intent to hold them accountable legally.

00:10:20.000 A lawyer is going to have to talk me out of it.

00:10:22.000 Again, this stuff gets immensely complicated because of New York Times v. Sullivan, the laws and the threshold to do that.

00:10:28.000 Again, I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV, but I, you know, I do have a desire to defend our students who are the real victims here, right?

00:10:37.000 I mean, you have a 16-year-old kid at our student action summit who then has to go home and be called a Nazi sympathizer by Whoopi Goldberg.

00:10:45.000 It's inexcusable.

00:10:48.000 This also speaks to what happened during the Glenn Youngkin campaign.

00:10:52.000 Yes.

00:10:54.000 It was admitted that there were members of the Bulwark who hired students to have the tiki torches that were marching.

00:11:00.000 I think he's a Lincoln project, but it's the same. 0.73

00:11:02.000 Same rough organized, well, same university.

00:11:05.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:11:06.000 But they had hired, admittedly, activists to dress up in the Charlottesville outfit, the khakis and the blue shirts.

00:11:14.000 They had the torches.

00:11:16.000 I think one of them was actually African-American, if I'm remembering correctly.

00:11:19.000 Yep, that's right. 0.95

00:11:20.000 That's to be a Nazi. 0.81

00:11:22.000 And well, look, it's just like, what's his name? 0.99

00:11:24.000 Could be the black face of white supremacy. 0.98

00:11:25.000 Yeah, Larry Elder. 0.97

00:11:26.000 Larry Elder. 0.95

00:11:28.000 And they were roundly condemned for this by many Democrats as well, saying that, you know, this is ridiculous and absurd.

00:11:36.000 What evidence do you have that you just alluded to earlier that these go ahead?

00:11:42.000 So first of all, they were all masked.

00:11:43.000 That's just part of it, right?

00:11:44.000 They didn't show their face at all.

00:11:45.000 Number two, if you look at the flags, which I'm happy to show your audience it, they look as if they came out of a package box.

00:11:51.000 They've never been flown before.

00:11:52.000 This is not some sort of like relic passed down of the Third Reich.

00:11:55.000 Like they just bought them, right?

00:11:57.000 The creases are still in the flags.

00:11:58.000 That's that's less powerful, but it's still powerful.

00:12:00.000 Number three, right before they showed up, there was a 200-person left-wing protest that just disappeared.

00:12:06.000 And then all of a sudden, these guys showed up within five minutes, like clockwork.

00:12:10.000 You could see it literally on the camera.

00:12:11.000 They all, the 200 go away, and then all of a sudden, these five new people kind of come center stage.

00:12:16.000 Number four, how outrageous some of the signs were.

00:12:18.000 I've never seen anything like that.

00:12:20.000 It was so over the top.

00:12:21.000 It was so incendiary.

00:12:22.000 It was so inflammatory.

00:12:23.000 It was so uncharacteristic of anything I've ever seen.

00:12:25.000 It looked as if someone was trying to create it for that sense.

00:12:28.000 Number five, the media could not care less who these people were.

00:12:31.000 It was super bizarre.

00:12:32.000 The media has done zero research into who these people are.

00:12:36.000 They're happy to cover it, but they didn't ask a question.

00:12:38.000 They didn't go up with a mic.

00:12:40.000 And number six, none of the left-wing protesters even went to go challenge them to try to pull down their masks. 0.97

00:12:45.000 You know, they're always being like, oh, yeah, go punch a Nazi.

00:12:48.000 Well, okay, there's an actual guy with the Nazi flag. 0.84

00:12:49.000 Why aren't you going up trying to pull down his mask and find out who that person is?

00:12:52.000 Instead, I don't know.

00:12:53.000 Taylor Lorenz is going after Libs of TikTok to find out that person's identity.

00:12:57.000 Or moms and dads are targeted to go for school board meetings, but you got a guy with a swastika and you don't even care about his identity.

00:13:04.000 Number seven, they were.

00:13:06.000 So I'll give you another one.

00:13:07.000 A student went up to him and asked this guy, Hey, why are you a Nazi? 0.97

00:13:09.000 He said, I'm a Nazi because a black person killed my brother. 0.94

00:13:13.000 And we have this on film, by the way. 0.97

00:13:14.000 And so then 30 minutes later, another person goes up, hey, why are you a Nazi? 0.98

00:13:17.000 Oh, because a black person killed my sister. 1.00

00:13:20.000 And so their stories are changing throughout. 0.99

00:13:22.000 It's 100% artificial.

00:13:24.000 Not to mention, you film them.

00:13:26.000 The way they're talking is if they're left-wing agitators.

00:13:29.000 They're not talking like true believers. 0.95

00:13:30.000 They're like, oh, you guys are so weak. 0.82

00:13:32.000 Like, oh, you conservatives are all the same.

00:13:34.000 As if they went back to kind of like muscle memory of left-wing activists.

00:13:38.000 And so we're using Greg Phillips, who helped produce 2000 Mules through cell phone ping technology.

00:13:44.000 We're going to be able to geolocate these cell phones, create a pattern of life, find out where they were the last 18 months.

00:13:49.000 We're putting a lot of money behind this.

00:13:50.000 And because we know where they were and how long they were there, and find out, you know, where their home would be, because you could see where they would spend their nights and their weekends and their idle time.

00:13:59.000 Find out if they ever went to Democrat organizing areas.

00:14:02.000 And if they had their cell phones with them, which they did, and they had them before, which is probable, then we should be able to create a pattern of life behind these people.

00:14:10.000 And so the media doesn't care about who the Nazis are, but I certainly do. 0.98

00:14:14.000 And let me just say one final thing, which is I've never, ever seen any, I think I reinforced this though.

00:14:20.000 It's so uncharacteristic for anything.

00:14:21.000 It's just such obviously an op, right?

00:14:23.000 And then the final thing.

00:14:24.000 Oh, yeah, the other thing.

00:14:25.000 One guy had a DeSantis country flag.

00:14:27.000 It's like, okay, so you have a Nazi flag next to the DeSantis country flag.

00:14:31.000 The guy that helped move the embassy to Jerusalem enforces BDS in Florida and has been accused of being too close to Israel by Democrat opponents.

00:14:43.000 That's who the Nazis decide. 0.93

00:14:44.000 No, and then immediately the Democrat Party comes out and goes a press release.

00:14:48.000 They do a press conference.

00:14:50.000 Ron DeSantis is close to Nazis.

00:14:52.000 It just felt like a complete and total, it felt like an op. 0.55

00:14:55.000 It seems like they don't have their history right because if they're prejudiced against black Americans, they should be in the Klan, not the Nazis.

00:15:00.000 So they can't even get their kind of hate groups correct.

00:15:03.000 You know, yes, that's right.

00:15:04.000 Let me play devil's advocate a little bit.

00:15:06.000 Okay.

00:15:06.000 One of the big arguments conservatives often have is that free speech is being censored on places like Twitter and other forms of social media.

00:15:14.000 Aren't you just engaging in what you decry by bringing in attorneys to censor Whoopi Goldberg's free speech?

00:15:20.000 What would you answer?

00:15:20.000 No, I don't think so.

00:15:21.000 It's about minors.

00:15:22.000 Look, minors is where you draw the line.

00:15:24.000 I mean, if you smear a minor, then I think that the gloves are off.

00:15:29.000 I mean, you smear a 15-year-old.

00:15:31.000 I mean, this kid doesn't even have, he can't vote yet.

00:15:34.000 And you're calling him a Nazi, right?

00:15:36.000 I mean, I'm all for free speech, free expression, but we have libel laws for a reason and slander laws for a reason.

00:15:41.000 And so, but again, I'm different.

00:15:43.000 If you attack Charlie Kirk personally, that threshold has to be very high.

00:15:47.000 I really couldn't care less.

00:15:48.000 I get attacked all the time.

00:15:49.000 Okay.

00:15:50.000 Just whatever.

00:15:51.000 But you go attack a 15-year-old that went into his or her savings to go to Tampa, Florida from Missouri or Kentucky, and they show up to every single speaker and they're super polite.

00:15:59.000 And now maybe for the rest of their life, they have to go to a job interview.

00:16:02.000 Maybe they want to become a lawyer, pass the bar exam, go in front of an ethics board.

00:16:05.000 And they say, well, I see here that you attended an event early on in your life and there were neo-Nazis out there that according to some reports, that's how they would do it.

00:16:13.000 They were invited in.

00:16:15.000 According to some reports, they were invited in.

00:16:17.000 Do you have sympathies for neo-Nazis?

00:16:19.000 And that is not an exaggeration.

00:16:20.000 It happens to our kids all the time.

00:16:22.000 And so, look, I'm a total advocate for free speech, obviously, but I'm not going to put up with our kids being slandered.

00:16:29.000 And the other thing is if they ever attained a position of prominence, the Wikipedia would say, you know, Jeff Smith, exactly right.

00:16:36.000 Who has historically associated with Nazi events, and you don't even need to Google the person like their resume is going in the trash.

00:16:44.000 That's exactly right.

00:16:46.000 Frequently.

00:16:47.000 So that's kind of, it's, I'm just, I'm a little surprised.

00:16:52.000 I think a lot of people in this country, and I want to hear your thoughts about are whether they're black pilled or white-pilled, they are black-pilled.

00:16:58.000 And I'm like, my argument is I don't think the enemy class is made up of impressive people.

00:17:03.000 And I think it's not really that hard to just get in their face, tell them no.

00:17:09.000 And they, you know, it's not just Whoopi Goldberg who has to be accountable.

00:17:12.000 You have the entire ABC network or whether the syndicate or whatever, you know, you have a whole infrastructure there. 0.96

00:17:19.000 And they do have to cover their ass because it looks really bad if this blows up that you have Whoopi Goldberg cavalierly referring to high school students or college students as Nazi sympathizers. 0.97

00:17:31.000 Yes. 0.99

00:17:31.000 I mean, so I do agree. 0.99

00:17:33.000 I think the power, I'm going to use that term enemy class. 0.99

00:17:35.000 I'm going to totally steal it from you, by the way.

00:17:37.000 So great.

00:17:38.000 I love that.

00:17:39.000 And I totally agree with it.

00:17:40.000 But yeah, I don't think they're very smart.

00:17:42.000 I don't think they're exceptionally hardworking.

00:17:44.000 I think their power is in their institutions.

00:17:46.000 Yes.

00:17:47.000 That's where I think the institutions have legitimate staying power.

00:17:50.000 The machinery, the funding, the customer base, the brands, those things are legitimately powerful.

00:17:56.000 The rest are just interchangeable parts.

00:17:58.000 The real power, I mean, the actual, the smart people are all becoming center-right conservatives or free thinkers like you or whatever, just not, you know, a miserable, unhappy leftist, right?

00:18:08.000 That you see this with Glenn Greenwald and Matt Taibbi, and you see this with Dave Rubin, that if you have anything interesting to say, or Russell Brand, or even to a lesser extent, Bill Maher or Joe Rogan, you know, all those guys, they're smart enough and good enough to survive on their own.

00:18:23.000 They don't need the interchangeable parts of the machinery.

00:18:25.000 I mean, do you think if Whoopi Goldberg right now started a podcast and did a radio show like I did for three hours a day, do you think it would be a hit?

00:18:31.000 I don't.

00:18:32.000 I don't think people would want, if it wasn't outside of the seat she had on the view, and the Charlie, let me interrupt you.

00:18:37.000 She had a radio show a few years ago before the view and it was DOA.

00:18:43.000 So it proves my point.

00:18:44.000 Yeah.

00:18:44.000 So the point is that she needs distribution, right?

00:18:47.000 So 135 million homes ABC goes into or it's probably even more than that.

00:18:50.000 It's probably 145 million homes.

00:18:52.000 They probably get three to 4 million viewers a day on the view, probably less than that, but whatever.

00:18:56.000 The point is that's distribution.

00:18:58.000 It pays her bills. 0.64

00:18:59.000 She doesn't have to worry about getting out there. 0.86

00:19:00.000 You and I, if our content sucks, no one's going to turn into our radio show. 0.61

00:19:04.000 No one's going to tune into our podcast. 0.97

00:19:06.000 No one's going to tune into our YouTube.

00:19:07.000 You get the point, right?

00:19:08.000 But we're willing to bet on ourselves. 1.00

00:19:09.000 We're like, yeah, I don't need to go sit on the view and go repeat stupid stuff. 0.99

00:19:12.000 Like I can make arguments. 0.99

00:19:14.000 I can have good guests.

00:19:15.000 And so by definition, we as freedom lovers have to be more dissident in our thinking, which then we actually end up being better than the other side.

00:19:23.000 Well, I can counter you by saying that as someone whose podcast does suck, it is possible to have crappy content and still be.

00:19:29.000 No, you get good guests. 0.68

00:19:30.000 You had Alex Jones.

00:19:31.000 Give me a break.

00:19:32.000 That's a big deal.

00:19:33.000 Let's talk about Alex.

00:19:34.000 I did have him last week because when you were just talking about it being an op, which I think you've clearly made out the case why it's at least plausible or if not like that it's an op.

00:19:44.000 This is the kind of thing where I feel five years ago, if Charlie Kirk was saying, you know, these were kind of a planned op outside my event, you would be called a conspiracy theorist and read out of polite society, even in conservative circles.

00:19:58.000 Why do you think that that tide has changed so much that you could say this and pretty much no conservative is even going to question your accusation?

00:20:07.000 Yeah, look, I think the facts have shown us the last couple of years.

00:20:10.000 I mean, I think Alex is wildly entertaining, by the way.

00:20:12.000 I disagree with him on a lot of stuff.

00:20:13.000 His style, I think the Sandy Hook thing was super questionable.

00:20:16.000 If I ever talked to him, I'd love to ask him about it.

00:20:17.000 But he's been right about a lot.

00:20:19.000 And we're not allowed to say that out loud, by the way, that Alex Jones was right about a lot.

00:20:23.000 And whether it be a lot of this globalism stuff, the open border stuff, and he obviously has a very, you know, unique style, I guess you could say.

00:20:30.000 But there is something to be said, though, that what once was deemed to be a conspiracy theory is now deemed to be a mainstream accepted fact.

00:20:39.000 And whether it be Russian collusion, I mean, the one I used the most, right?

00:20:43.000 And Alex, to his credit, was on this as, let's just say, comically and as entertaining as possible, was the Epstein Island thing.

00:20:51.000 Yeah.

00:20:52.000 And I remember very clearly bringing up Epstein Island in a conversation in Palm Beach in 2014 and being told by people that's a conspiracy theory when literally three streets away, three streets away was Jeffrey Epstein's home doing the exact thing that I heard a rumor about.

00:21:09.000 And they're like, oh, that's a conspiracy theory.

00:21:10.000 It's not true.

00:21:11.000 Well, we now know it's true.

00:21:12.000 We just don't know to what extent it's true.

00:21:14.000 We probably do, but there's some gaps to be filled in that there was an island that was probably intelligence operation where underage girls were flown on private jets with world leaders from many different continents and governments to probably accumulate blackmail.

00:21:27.000 That's a very big deal.

00:21:29.000 And so when people say, well, Charlotte's a conspiracy theory, I'm like, you mean the same one where you told me that I was a racist because the virus came from a laboratory in Wuhan, China?

00:21:37.000 You mean the same conspiracy theory when you said that Hunter Biden's laptop was not actually his laptop in Rudy Giuliani's hands?

00:21:44.000 And so these things that they smear as conspiracy theories largely end up being true.

00:21:51.000 And so the reason I can't quite pinpoint, but I just don't care anymore.

00:21:56.000 I'm going to say what I think is true.

00:21:58.000 And if you call it that, no matter what, but you know what's been amazing is that this, I've been really forceful about it.

00:22:03.000 Greg Gutfeld has, Jesse Waters about this Nazi thing.

00:22:06.000 And the media hasn't really been like conspiracy theory outside a turning point event.

00:22:10.000 They're kind of, I think deep down they know it too.

00:22:13.000 Well, because again, the Lincoln Project people admitted it to a year ago.

00:22:16.000 Yes.

00:22:17.000 Epstein Island's a great example.

00:22:19.000 It went from conspiracy theory to conspiracy fact.

00:22:22.000 It's not disputable that powerful people were secretly working with Jeffrey Epstein in the service of things that in any country, civilized country on earth are not only grossly illegal, but considered morally depraved.

00:22:37.000 And a follower of mine had a tweet.

00:22:39.000 I apologize.

00:22:40.000 I don't remember his name.

00:22:41.000 And this is tongue-in-cheek, but he had said, Pizza ate, Pizzagate aged better than Russia Gate.

00:22:46.000 Now, there was nothing to the Pizzagate story, literally, but in terms of the premise that extremely powerful people are engaged in predation on young men and women. 0.97

00:22:56.000 I mean, Dennis Hastert was Speaker of the House and the man was a horrible sexual predator.

00:23:02.000 And the fact to me that the Democrats don't talk about Dennis Haster and what he did is very because that should be a huge weapon over the Republicans. 0.90

00:23:12.000 Oh, you guys are always talking about rumors.

00:23:14.000 You had Haster to speak of the House. 1.00

00:23:16.000 You know, you're hypocrites. 0.99

00:23:17.000 They don't say that. 0.99

00:23:19.000 But you know who Denny Hassert's best friend was was Dick Cheney.

00:23:21.000 Denny Hassert carried, oh, well, think about it.

00:23:23.000 He carried all the water.

00:23:24.000 He was Speaker of the House when Bush was from 2000 to 2006.

00:23:28.000 He whipped the votes for the Iraq war for Medicare Part D. I'm not accusing Cheney of being in the same activity, but Denny Hassert, again, I'm from Illinois.

00:23:38.000 I know him.

00:23:38.000 I met him.

00:23:39.000 I don't know him.

00:23:40.000 Met him, but I know his politics is that he was one of the most effective uniparty speaker of the houses ever as far as international war, big spending, you know, open borders, massive government programs.

00:23:56.000 So they find Donald Trump more reprehensible than Denny Hassert.

00:24:01.000 Think about that. 0.99

00:24:02.000 I always say that it's a fair assumption that when you're looking at a politician in Washington, that they either want to screw kids or kill them.

00:24:09.000 So it is fair that Dick Cheney did not want to have things like Dennis Hassert, but he certainly has the blood of many children in his hands.

00:24:16.000 And we also saw it with this administration as well, when a bunch of children were murdered in Afghanistan accidentally, and no one even got it accidentally, but no one even got a demotion or any kind of reprimand.

00:24:27.000 It's just really kind of insane to what a level the media lets people off the hook when it comes to the literal murder of children.

00:24:37.000 Yeah, I mean, I could, I could go many different directions in that way.

00:24:40.000 But yeah, look, to kind of your broader point, and I just want our audience to feel, you know, encouraged in this and also to draw, I think, a necessary framework is that a lot of the things the media says are conspiracy theories is true.

00:24:51.000 With that being said, I get plenty of garbage emails, and there's plenty of things that people believe that are not true.

00:24:56.000 Okay. 0.83

00:24:56.000 So you have to be smart, be prudent. 0.83

00:24:58.000 You know, I vet my stories.

00:25:00.000 I mean, for example, I keep on getting these emails.

00:25:02.000 Charlie, Donald Trump's going to be president on September 1st.

00:25:04.000 No, he's not.

00:25:05.000 Okay.

00:25:05.000 He's not coming back with the military.

00:25:07.000 It's just not going to happen.

00:25:08.000 Okay.

00:25:09.000 And when I said that once, I got some angry emails like, you don't know.

00:25:12.000 Trust the plan.

00:25:12.000 I'm like, just get off the message boards.

00:25:14.000 Like, go stare at a tree, please. 0.91

00:25:15.000 Like, smash your phone.

00:25:16.000 It'd make you a happier person.

00:25:18.000 So I just want to be very clear.

00:25:19.000 Conspiracy theories can be true that are found on the internet, but that doesn't mean they are all true, right?

00:25:25.000 So use prudence, use practical judgment, and some wisdom.

00:25:27.000 But when the media goes really hard against one, that's when you know you're over the target.

00:25:32.000 Let's talk about your new book because I have made the case.

00:25:34.000 Like I, when I was in, I went to Bucknell and I was a business major because I understood and I was right that the most important thing you're going to get out of university is a credential.

00:25:46.000 If I had that business degree, that that would be opening much more doors for me than if I was, let's suppose, interested in psychology.

00:25:51.000 I could go to the school library, learn about psychology, read textbooks, so on and so forth on my own.

00:25:56.000 But that credential is what's going to open the door for me.

00:25:59.000 Your book, and again, I'm a lot older than you.

00:26:02.000 Your book is saying that this is something that is falling away and that college is increasingly a scam.

00:26:08.000 Can you break down the premise?

00:26:10.000 Because you didn't go to college and you're very successful.

00:26:12.000 I did not.

00:26:13.000 Well, thank you.

00:26:13.000 And so, yeah, the book's called The College Scam, and people can find it at college scam.com.

00:26:17.000 So it's been about a decade of living this theme out, not going to college, as you mentioned.

00:26:21.000 It's three years of work went into this book.

00:26:23.000 A lot of research has 35 pages of footnotes at the end of the book because I knew we were going to come under criticism because this is an industry that you cannot touch.

00:26:31.000 If you want to talk about the untouchable industries, it's the war machine, the pharmaceutical industrial complex, the media regime, colleges.

00:26:38.000 That's kind of like top four as far as the institutions that we must just obey no matter what.

00:26:44.000 So I thought to myself, most Americans actually don't agree with my premise, which is that college is a scam, at least most upper middle class Americans.

00:26:52.000 So the best way to write the book is to write it as if I'm trying to persuade people.

00:26:57.000 And so what is the most proven high-stakes game of persuasion?

00:27:02.000 The courtroom.

00:27:03.000 You think about it, right?

00:27:04.000 A prosecutor try to convince 12 normal people that this guy needs to go spend time behind bars or this woman needs to spend time behind bars. 1.00

00:27:10.000 So I write the book as if I'm a prosecutor.

00:27:12.000 I believe I've developed these facts over a long period of time and you are the jury.

00:27:15.000 So I have a 10-count indictment in the book.

00:27:17.000 Very factual, every single one.

00:27:18.000 Every single one's different.

00:27:20.000 And to go one after the other after the other, 10 counts.

00:27:22.000 I believe college is guilty on all, if you will, college, the industry.

00:27:26.000 And it's everything from how expensive they are to how radically intolerant they are to the ridiculous finances of these universities, how they literally lie to the federal government to get more money.

00:27:37.000 And while you go further into debt, so I can go any way you want with that, but the book is not written like a traditional political book that people are peddling.

00:27:44.000 And I'm not saying that I wrote the typical political book, right, a couple of years ago, MAGA Doctrine.

00:27:49.000 That was written a little bit for persuasion, but mostly for clarity for Trump supporters that didn't quite understand all the ideas.

00:27:56.000 This is not written for that.

00:27:57.000 This is for persuasion.

00:27:58.000 This is, you're going to start the book and you probably disagree, and I might be able to change your mind by the end of the book.

00:28:04.000 And so it took a lot of work.

00:28:04.000 That's the hardest type of book to write, in my opinion.

00:28:07.000 One of the things that I disagree with conservatives the most, and I don't know your position on this, and I'm curious to hear it, is this idea that is very common in conservative circles that the universities have gotten bad, but back in the day, they were more open-minded places for exchange of ideas.

00:28:22.000 And I sit there and wonder, I'm like, they've been taken over by, at the very least, like social democrats since like the 1910s.

00:28:30.000 At what point do you think?

00:28:31.000 And, you know, when I was in college, my economics professor, she was a Marxist feminist.

00:28:37.000 She was a great professor at this.

00:28:38.000 She was fair, but she made the claim in her textbook that because the laws of economics were discovered by men or maybe males, they are inherently sexist and have to be rediscovered by women. 0.87

00:28:50.000 I don't know what supply and demand has to do with chromosomes or genitals, but I'm sure she has a Marxist argument.

00:28:56.000 What is your view about universities?

00:28:58.000 Do you think this is something that they've recently become radicalized or this is something for a long time?

00:29:02.000 I mean, I think they've gotten worse.

00:29:04.000 I will say that.

00:29:05.000 Here's the argument I make in the book.

00:29:06.000 They've always been bad.

00:29:07.000 They've only become bigger and more emboldened.

00:29:09.000 Right.

00:29:10.000 And so they were radical in the 1950s.

00:29:12.000 Just read William F. Buckley's Godman in Yale.

00:29:14.000 He was complaining about it. 0.96

00:29:15.000 But I'll be honest, the stuff he's complaining about pales in comparison to the garbage at Yale today. 0.59

00:29:20.000 And I could say that as someone who's done this for 10 years, it's worse today than it was in 2014. 0.74

00:29:20.000 They have gotten worse. 0.74

00:29:26.000 It's worse today than it was in 2018.

00:29:28.000 But the reference point is really important where I think some conservatives think back to the 60s and 70s, where they're like, yeah, going to campus was so much fun back then.

00:29:38.000 They were actually liberal back then.

00:29:39.000 They weren't the students themselves were really liberal, meaning they were doing a lot of drugs and they were anti-Vietnam War and it's free love.

00:29:45.000 And they became more conservative, but they still kind of think of their university as that's the place where I discovered myself when I did psychedelics on Saturday night listening to John Lennon.

00:29:55.000 Okay, great, terrific.

00:29:56.000 You know, they're not that anymore.

00:29:59.000 And I wouldn't actually look as affectionately back on that as some people do.

00:30:02.000 The point is this.

00:30:03.000 The point is that they've always been, since the Frankfurt School mostly took over, right, in the 1940s and 50s, Herbert Marcuse, they've been infiltrated, right?

00:30:12.000 They've been infiltrated from the top down, from Foucault to Derrida to Derek Bell to Angela Davis.

00:30:18.000 We talk about all of it in the book.

00:30:19.000 But there is a difference, though, and it is the illiberalism.

00:30:22.000 This is something that I think conservatives get partially right, is they say, well, the university used to be this wonderful place for free speech and free ideas.

00:30:28.000 Not anymore.

00:30:30.000 Sort of, right?

00:30:31.000 They were far left-wing ideas.

00:30:32.000 They were always Marxist in nature, but they did have some commitment to liberalism, but they didn't believe in liberalism, small L liberalism, because they actually believed in it.

00:30:42.000 They looked at it as a utility.

00:30:44.000 You see, liberalism for them is always a bridge to fascism or towards totalitarianism.

00:30:50.000 It's let us speak right now until we outnumber you, and then we're going to close off the right to speak.

00:30:56.000 And it's never, it was never speech for the right of speech or for the sake of speech, of which is a beautiful thing.

00:31:01.000 It's we need to be able to talk because the power structures aren't us yet.

00:31:05.000 But once we get into the power structures, then we're going to turn off the lights on speech.

00:31:09.000 And that's where a lot of conservatives were, I think, hoodwinked.

00:31:13.000 There's that great, great quote by Herbert, by Frank Herbert in Dune, where he says, When I'm weaker than you, I ask for freedom.

00:31:20.000 When I'm weaker than you, I ask for freedom because that is according to your principles.

00:31:23.000 When I'm stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles.

00:31:26.000 That's beautiful.

00:31:28.000 I missed that.

00:31:30.000 That's exactly what you were referring to: that free speech is a utility in order to get them to have this kind of sense of hegemony.

00:31:37.000 And once they have it, they're going to shut the door behind them and make sure there's no amount of speech left.

00:31:43.000 Let's also talk about the financial burden.

00:31:46.000 There's no more privileged group of people in America than a college graduate.

00:31:51.000 It's the best guarantee that you're going to have economic security, that you're going to have capability for a job, that you're going to have advancement in society.

00:31:59.000 And yet, there's talk by Joe Biden and the Republican and the Democrats, excuse me, and some Republicans to have debt relief and have, and which is effectively be the poorest of Americans, the least privileged, are subsidizing the upward mobility of the most privileged.

00:32:13.000 I'm guessing this is something you're not in favor of.

00:32:16.000 Oh, I'm totally against it.

00:32:17.000 Yeah, I would just challenge one thing.

00:32:19.000 It's not as much of a guarantee to an entrance as you might think.

00:32:22.000 I mean, for example, 40% of kids that graduate from college will end up getting a job that doesn't require a college degree, right?

00:32:30.000 And so there is some truth to what you're saying.

00:32:34.000 And I'll take it from this standpoint.

00:32:36.000 Let's just kind of isolate a particular group of people, which actually they end up having the biggest debt loads.

00:32:41.000 How about the Northeastern schools in particular, right?

00:32:44.000 So Princeton, Harvard, Yale, Dartmouth.

00:32:48.000 Why should a carpenter in Ohio have to go pay for the debt of some gender studies major that went to Dartmouth? 0.99

00:32:57.000 Like, okay, you decided to go to Dartmouth to go study North African lesbian poetry.

00:33:02.000 Figure out how to pay it.

00:33:04.000 Okay.

00:33:04.000 Don't go ask the welders in Florida to have to go chip in for that.

00:33:08.000 So I'm totally against debt forgiveness from a moral standpoint, from a pragmatic standpoint, but also it, I think it deteriorates and is an insult to the kids that paid their way through college, that took AP classes, that were financially prudent, that went to community college first.

00:33:25.000 It's such an injustice, regardless of what they do towards that topic.

00:33:29.000 One of the things that I am heartened by, and you're going to have your finger on the pulse of the kids much more than I will.

00:33:35.000 I'm here in Austin and I was driving around recently with a friend of mine and on the GPS or the MapQuest, excuse me, it said Temple of Dr. Ron Paul.

00:33:43.000 And I'm like, I don't know what this is.

00:33:44.000 And I stopped by and it was Young Americans for Liberty, which is a kind of a, I guess, I don't know if you guys are rivals or however system.

00:33:51.000 They're more libertarian than I am.

00:33:52.000 I'm more conservative, but they're great.

00:33:53.000 They're terrific.

00:33:55.000 And it turned out to be, and the kids just blew me away.

00:33:58.000 They had their heads screwed on so straight.

00:34:00.000 They understood the nature of what they're up against.

00:34:03.000 They had tactics that were very effective at holding people accountable.

00:34:07.000 Back in the day, you would have things like Reagan saying, oh, the problem with our liberal friends is that they believe things that are just not true.

00:34:13.000 But that seems to give this idea that the universities should be given the benefit of doubt, that they don't know what they're doing, that they're just, you know, it's just a difference of opinion.

00:34:22.000 Whereas as opposed to having this kind of malevolent intent, have cultural control.

00:34:28.000 Are the conservative students now becoming more aware of what they're up against as opposed to this kind of sense of we could be like Reagan and Tip O'Neill and just get together and disagree and then have a drink after?

00:34:40.000 Yeah, I think they are.

00:34:41.000 And they're becoming hardened because everything's become political.

00:34:43.000 They become radicalized in a good way where they realize the intentions of the opposition, like you said, are malevolent.

00:34:49.000 They're dealing with an insidious force, a cancerous force.

00:34:53.000 And look, regardless if you're a libertarian or conservative or a moderate or whatever, that matters less to me.

00:34:59.000 What matters more, and obviously I'm very conservative in nature and become less libertarian over the years, but what matters more to me is, do you know who you're fighting?

00:35:06.000 That's what really matters to me, right?

00:35:08.000 So for example, if I had a libertarian, and I know you're an anarchist, which I find to be really kind of fun, I love listening to you on that stuff, which is, you know, a libertarian says, okay, I want, you know, drugs and all this stuff, or I want less gun laws.

00:35:22.000 I'm like, great, that's something I can work with you on, okay?

00:35:24.000 Terrific.

00:35:25.000 Or they say, you know, I want open borders, and then that's silly.

00:35:28.000 Or they'll say something like, I think we should never have lockdowns again.

00:35:31.000 I totally agree with that.

00:35:32.000 You know what I mean?

00:35:33.000 And so there's these partnerships and these synergies that can happen.

00:35:36.000 But what we both agree on is we're dealing with a very, very dark opposition.

00:35:42.000 Like they do not want what's best.

00:35:44.000 They want a form of, I believe, technocratic controlled serfdom where they're in charge and we're not.

00:35:50.000 And it really is the question of whether or not we're going to fight for liberty.

00:35:53.000 It really is that simple. 1.00

00:35:54.000 Why do you think that so many, you know, because everyone who's young is an idiot. 1.00

00:35:59.000 You know, you're 17, you don't know anything. 1.00

00:36:01.000 No one who's 17 knows anything.

00:36:02.000 And everyone who gets to be 21 looks back at 17.

00:36:05.000 You're like, why do I think I knew anything? 1.00

00:36:07.000 I was an idiot. 1.00

00:36:07.000 Oh, yeah. 1.00

00:36:08.000 Some of my political views when I was 20.

00:36:11.000 How is it that the kids are so have their are so red-pilled and are so aware now as opposed to being much more naive maybe a few decades ago in Europe?

00:36:21.000 Yeah, I mean, Aristotle had a great quote.

00:36:23.000 I'm paraphrasing that pressure makes the man, which is they're in these highly combustible environments early on where at 18 years old, they're asked by a professor, who here's a Republican?

00:36:32.000 They're like, oh, yeah, me.

00:36:33.000 And then they get singled out and they get bullied.

00:36:35.000 Like, wait, what?

00:36:36.000 I mean, that does one of two things.

00:36:37.000 That either makes you weaker or makes you stronger.

00:36:39.000 And for our kids, at turning point, you'll say, it makes our kids very strong.

00:36:43.000 They lose friends, they get bullied, they get socially isolated.

00:36:46.000 So if you were to kind of, this is, I totally agree with your enemy class kind of diagnosis, which is if you were going to try to create a group of people that was going to win in the future, would you want the people that have had their teeth kicked in from when they're 18 and they have bruises and broken bones to show for it and they have the muscle to be able to get through it?

00:37:06.000 Or do you want the people that retreat to the hills every time they hear something they don't like?

00:37:11.000 Forget the numbers.

00:37:12.000 Our side, in the great words of Nassim Taleb, we're anti-fragile.

00:37:16.000 We get stronger the more they come after us.

00:37:19.000 And so I think there's a lot of reasons for that.

00:37:22.000 But regardless of their ideology, their attitude is what gives me hope.

00:37:26.000 And that's why I said libertarian conservative, whatever.

00:37:28.000 I think you'll get more conservatives you get older.

00:37:30.000 It doesn't really matter to me.

00:37:31.000 Just keep reading and keep listening and keep pursuing truth.

00:37:33.000 Is your attitude one where you know who you're up against?

00:37:37.000 Back in the day, especially in the post-World War II era, the GI Bill, going to college, you know, the first person in my family to go to college.

00:37:44.000 This is a huge like upper middle class, middle class bourgeois aspiration.

00:37:48.000 Like my daughter, my son's the first one to go to college.

00:37:50.000 This is a big deal.

00:37:51.000 Now it seems, but the thing is, in more recent years, your daughter goes to college as a, you know, Nubile Young co-ed.

00:37:58.000 She comes back at Thanksgiving as an unrecognizable swamp wall risk.

00:38:00.000 That's exactly right.

00:38:01.000 It seems to be an understanding that, wait a minute, this kind of, I'm going to use the word broadly, American dream of like, my kid's going to be the first one to go to college.

00:38:10.000 All of a sudden, it seems that parents are increasingly aware that this isn't the bill of goods that maybe that had happened back in the day.

00:38:17.000 Do you, given your contacts with kids and parents, is my perception accurate that this is decreasingly the case to be an inspirational thing?

00:38:26.000 Slightly.

00:38:27.000 College enrollment went down by 660,000 people last year.

00:38:30.000 I'm probably the only person on the planet that goes to the Department of Education website almost every day, waiting for them to refresh the statistics because I care so every day.

00:38:39.000 I'm like, come on.

00:38:40.000 And people like, they act like, when's the next, I don't know, Gucci purse going to drop?

00:38:44.000 I'm like, when's the college dropout numbers going to be posted?

00:38:49.000 And they've delayed them by a couple of months.

00:38:50.000 I wonder why, because I think they're going to be really bad.

00:38:53.000 If they go down by seven figures, I will be so happy.

00:38:55.000 And a stated goal of this book is to try to decrease college enrollment.

00:38:58.000 I make no question about it.

00:39:00.000 In fact, I do not believe America can continue in any semblance of a free country unless we decline college enrollment by half quickly.

00:39:08.000 There is no path forward, regardless of your political ideology, regardless of your opinion on certain views.

00:39:13.000 There is no path forward, period.

00:39:15.000 Unless you want to go live in a very dystopian country, which I completely wholeheartedly reject.

00:39:21.000 Cannot keep on sending your most prized possession to get filled with bad ideas, saddled with debt, with very little career prospects, and act as if everything's going to be fine.

00:39:29.000 One of the things that's happened in recent years, like the biggest argument in terms of having a college degree is, you know, how are you going to get hired?

00:39:37.000 It's become easier and easier, exponentially so, for young people to set up something in Shopify, something in Etsy, to set up a website.

00:39:44.000 When you set up a website, no one knows that you're a high school kid or college or college age kid behind the computer and you could be a young entrepreneur.

00:39:51.000 After four years, you know, one person could have a degree, another person could be like, I've built this startup or this website and I'm generating five figures a month.

00:40:00.000 If I were hiring someone, I would much rather hire that young go-getter who started his own site than someone who's just been in the classroom.

00:40:07.000 And I think as that increases, it's really going to be difficult for colleges to make the case.

00:40:12.000 You should lose four years of getting job experience, four years of earning a salary at the cost of getting a piece of paper and then tens of thousands of dollars every year.

00:40:22.000 And you don't have literally any experience at the end of the day.

00:40:24.000 Is that something that you see is also a big threat to the university system?

00:40:28.000 Yeah, it is the threat.

00:40:29.000 And it is the number one argument I receive.

00:40:31.000 And honestly, it's the best argument that I receive.

00:40:33.000 And I debunk it in the book rather comprehensively, which is, Charlie, I need the piece of paper elsewhere.

00:40:39.000 I'm never going to be able to get a job.

00:40:40.000 Okay.

00:40:41.000 So that's not totally true.

00:40:42.000 It's true in some technical fields.

00:40:44.000 I fully admit it.

00:40:45.000 Nursing, lawyer, doctor, hard not to go to college.

00:40:48.000 It just really is, right?

00:40:49.000 But for example, though, the vast majority of people that go will be studying business or they study entrepreneurship.

00:40:55.000 I just, out of all the degrees that you study entrepreneurship, it's the silliest thing.

00:41:00.000 How do you study entrepreneurship?

00:41:01.000 You do entrepreneurship.

00:41:03.000 Okay.

00:41:03.000 I mean, this is, it's an overly academic experiment.

00:41:06.000 Get into the weeds, start a business, you'll learn along the way.

00:41:09.000 Or they study gender studies or humanities or sociology, which is the leading field of study across America.

00:41:16.000 You could wipe all that out.

00:41:17.000 That's a complete disaster, completely irrelevant almost all the way through.

00:41:21.000 And so what's going to be required on both sides, required for kids not to go out of a leap of faith.

00:41:25.000 And then employers have to start hiring kids that didn't go to college that are willing to work and learn whatever your company needs along the way.

00:41:33.000 I believe, and I write about this in the book, college actually makes you lazier.

00:41:36.000 I think it decreases work ethic, not increases it.

00:41:39.000 I think it decreases social skills.

00:41:41.000 I think it decreases aspiration just as a general organizing principle.

00:41:46.000 How does it do that?

00:41:47.000 I would love to hear you expound on that.

00:41:49.000 Well, lazier, I mean, it's easier than ever to just coast and get C's because you can blend in class sizes.

00:41:54.000 They're 300 to 400 person per class.

00:41:57.000 So you could just blend in and barely do your work.

00:42:00.000 The professors are overworked.

00:42:02.000 And so they don't want to have to flunk you out unnecessarily.

00:42:06.000 There's incredible amount of cheating culture that happens in college that no one wants to talk about.

00:42:11.000 That is a huge thing.

00:42:12.000 We talk about it in the book of pay for essays or people taking tests.

00:42:16.000 And so it's hard to get straight A's in college.

00:42:19.000 It is not hard just to kind of coast by and get D's and C's.

00:42:23.000 And you know this by the amount of idle time college kids have.

00:42:26.000 They'll go to class for three or four hours a day.

00:42:29.000 That's it at most.

00:42:31.000 And you think they're spending the rest of their time studying?

00:42:33.000 Not so much.

00:42:34.000 I mean, it is a glamorized recreational vacation, judged by just the build outs that you see at some of these universities.

00:42:41.000 Lazy rivers, bars on every corner.

00:42:44.000 It's fine.

00:42:44.000 I don't have no against, I'm not against people having a good time, but that's a super expensive proposition to just kind of have a good time to just go socialize with friends.

00:42:52.000 And that's the other argument people make is like, well, I meet a lot of people when I'm at college and it's good for networking.

00:42:58.000 Let me tell you right now, it's better for you to network people that have already graduated from college than people that are going to graduate from college.

00:43:03.000 Okay.

00:43:04.000 So which would you prefer?

00:43:05.000 People that have made it or people that are going to make it?

00:43:07.000 And by the way, most colleges you go to, unless you go to Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Stanford, they're probably going to end up bums. 1.00

00:43:12.000 I'm sorry.

00:43:12.000 It's just the way it is.

00:43:13.000 Okay.

00:43:13.000 It's just like, well, yeah, I go to, you know, Western North Dakota State and I'm meeting a lot of people for my future.

00:43:20.000 Cool, man.

00:43:20.000 I'm sure they're all going to end up being, you know, running the FBI one day.

00:43:25.000 All right.

00:43:26.000 Let's be honest.

00:43:27.000 And so, yeah, I could go through the lazier thing.

00:43:29.000 I think it lowers aspiration because the culture of college is to make you feel as if what you do does not matter.

00:43:36.000 It's evangelistic nihilism.

00:43:38.000 It's in every corner of the university.

00:43:40.000 From the books they read to the ideas that are permeated.

00:43:43.000 The vast consensus on college campuses is only pleasure matters, period.

00:43:48.000 Not the pursuit of truth or goodness or beauty, the study of the Western canon.

00:43:52.000 They removed all of that.

00:43:53.000 And I could say this as a subject matter expert because I visit so many of these campuses and I talk to so many of them.

00:43:58.000 Going to Berkeley, I literally set up a card table at Berkeley and I spent an hour, hour and a half there talking to students, and their cynicism and their nihilism is depressing.

00:44:09.000 No wonder why this is the most depressed, suicidal, alcohol-addicted, and Medicated generation in history. 0.95

00:44:14.000 And that's the other thing is that we have more kids killing themselves than ever before, more kids doing hard drugs, more kids getting, you know, addicted to alcohol, more kids on antidepressants, and we have more kids graduating from college up until last year.

00:44:26.000 It declined a little bit down.

00:44:28.000 We also have the least married generation in history.

00:44:31.000 We have a fertility crisis where it's going down dramatically.

00:44:34.000 It's harder than ever to buy a home.

00:44:36.000 Many of this college thing isn't working too well.

00:44:39.000 And so you have all of these environmental factors.

00:44:41.000 I'm not blaming college for all of it, but it certainly isn't helping.

00:44:44.000 Since we've had the mass infusion of people going to college, which is baby boomers' kids, right? 1.00

00:44:48.000 Baby boomers kids going to college kind of from 2005 till today, 2022, that 17-year window where college enrollment almost doubled over the course of 10 years, almost like 45% increase.

00:44:59.000 America has become a less free, less happy, less joyful, more suicidal, more depressed nation.

00:45:05.000 One of the things that you really excel at is crafting a tweet that is perfectly targeted to conservatives to go viral.

00:45:12.000 So can you share with us your trick to writing the perfect Charlie Kirk tweet?

00:45:17.000 Oh, boy.

00:45:18.000 You have to know the right emoji to use.

00:45:22.000 Huh?

00:45:22.000 Retweet if you agree.

00:45:24.000 Oh, no, that was that.

00:45:25.000 Hey, I was the pioneer of that.

00:45:28.000 Look, early on, and I don't, no one's actually ever asked me about this.

00:45:32.000 So I love Twitter.

00:45:34.000 I was, I used to love Twitter.

00:45:35.000 It's an awful place now.

00:45:36.000 I actually deleted it from my phone and I have somebody else run it.

00:45:39.000 But I got my first Twitter account in 2011 and I studied the platform.

00:45:43.000 I studied it like a gamer would study Halo or whatever the kids play nowadays, right?

00:45:47.000 Like I studied what goes viral.

00:45:49.000 I'll bet Kirk, what are kids play nowadays?

00:45:51.000 I don't know, Pokemon.

00:45:52.000 I don't know.

00:45:53.000 I'm not a video game guy.

00:45:54.000 I think it's a waste of time.

00:45:56.000 But so I studied Twitter and I was like, what goes viral?

00:45:59.000 What goes, you know, so around like 12 and 13, I would really kind of get into this and I realized that Twitter was changing its algorithm and almost becomes kind of an extension of you where you kind of realize the pattern.

00:46:09.000 And so I did this for year after year after year, starting with no followers, unverified.

00:46:13.000 And during the kind of the top of the Trump years, you know, we ended up having the third most engaged Twitter account on the planet.

00:46:19.000 I mean, I was averaging 145,000 retweets a day at our heyday, which is a lot, right?

00:46:26.000 Not to mention all the likes and favorites and all of that.

00:46:28.000 It's just astronomical numbers.

00:46:30.000 And so, yeah, it's the perfect way to craft a tweet.

00:46:32.000 Say things that are true, that get people's attention, and don't be afraid to ask people to retweet.

00:46:37.000 Yeah, okay.

00:46:39.000 Why do you find that hard?

00:46:40.000 Why do you think Twitter has, you just said it's kind of become a bit of a cesspool or whatever the term that's awful.

00:46:45.000 Why do you think how's it gotten worse?

00:46:47.000 They kick off people that I want to hear from, Donald Trump being one of them, and they banned me and they banned James Lindsey.

00:46:55.000 What do you mean?

00:46:55.000 What happened there?

00:46:56.000 For a while, and then we figured it out.

00:46:58.000 It was all about Levine.

00:47:01.000 I get so many of these notices from them.

00:47:02.000 It was about Admiral Levine or whatever his name is, who thinks he's a woman or whatever.

00:47:07.000 The whole thing is so messed up.

00:47:08.000 So then, the, yeah, but not to mention, it's just tweets don't go as viral as they used to because they're shadow banning all of us, which has now been revealed in CDC documents that if you dare to question the vaccine, of which I do, they come after you and they shadow ban you.

00:47:21.000 And so, it's just not fun anymore either.

00:47:23.000 Twitter used to be a legitimately fun place where I would send out one of those tweets and be like, oh, a New York Times reporter is going to tweet back at me.

00:47:29.000 Like, yes, it's like the only way I could communicate with people I absolutely hate.

00:47:33.000 And because I don't have their phone numbers, right?

00:47:35.000 And you could do it in front of millions of other people.

00:47:37.000 Like, oh, yes, this degenerate from the Huffington Post decided to tweet at me.

00:47:40.000 I must be doing something right.

00:47:42.000 And that's just not that fun anymore. 1.00

00:47:43.000 Now it's like, you're a Nazi, you're a scum. 1.00

00:47:44.000 It's like, okay, whatever. 1.00

00:47:45.000 And I think that Twitter has just decreased in its potency and its relevancy.

00:47:51.000 And so I don't know.

00:47:52.000 I passively use Twitter now.

00:47:53.000 I dedicate a lot more time to other platforms.

00:47:56.000 You said earlier that you have become more conservative and less as you've gotten older in your old age.

00:48:03.000 How have you become?

00:48:05.000 Can you give me a few examples or one even?

00:48:06.000 Yeah, I mean, I'll give you one.

00:48:08.000 And I mean, you're probably going to totally disagree.

00:48:09.000 And that's fine.

00:48:10.000 Is that I used to be super libertarian on weed, right?

00:48:14.000 And like, oh, yeah, do whatever you want.

00:48:15.000 And I'm the exact opposite now.

00:48:17.000 I think it, I've seen it destroy people's lives, like actually destroy people's lives.

00:48:22.000 I've seen it create remarkably violent tendencies.

00:48:25.000 Now, I'm not trying to judge if some of your audience does it.

00:48:27.000 That's not my point.

00:48:28.000 My point is: should we go out of our way to evangelistically legalize a substance when we already have substance abuse widespread?

00:48:34.000 That's the question.

00:48:34.000 I understand the alcohol contradiction argument.

00:48:36.000 I can address that.

00:48:37.000 But I, for example, I live in Scottsdale.

00:48:39.000 They're building a marijuana dispensary five minutes from my home.

00:48:42.000 I do not want the people that go to marijuana dispensaries at 1 a.m. near my home.

00:48:46.000 I don't.

00:48:46.000 And local government, I don't want you near me, period.

00:48:49.000 And so I've seen it in Denver.

00:48:51.000 I've seen it in my home of Chicago.

00:48:52.000 I've seen it in Vegas.

00:48:54.000 I think it creates a sloppiness to the society.

00:48:56.000 And by the way, I'll just be very honest, I hate the smell of it.

00:48:59.000 And I also have seen it personally just completely and totally obliterate people's personal ambitions.

00:49:06.000 And I think the stereotype that it is a gateway drug is kind of true.

00:49:09.000 So that's just one way.

00:49:11.000 A second one.

00:49:11.000 I'm not even that though, because one of the issues that I think you and I would very much agree on is the problem with drug cartels, right?

00:49:18.000 Oh, I totally agree, but it hasn't made them weaker.

00:49:20.000 It's made them stronger since we've legalized.

00:49:22.000 Especially OLA cartel is stronger than ever since we've legalized weed.

00:49:25.000 So you, so is it in your opinion that if marijuana were nationwide, nation, excuse me, nationwide made in something equivalent to like what is a substance, a schedule, whatever, drug, that this would be, would hurt the cartels?

00:49:40.000 I don't, maybe.

00:49:42.000 I mean, I think that, look, my, my view actually ends up being more moderate, which is it doesn't need to be overly enforced.

00:49:47.000 I just don't think we should have dispensaries in every corner.

00:49:49.000 Like I get it if some kid does dope, I suppose, but it is the culture of weed that comes in that just drives me crazy.

00:49:57.000 But I guess just to counter the argument, the cartels were weaker when we used to actually enforce these laws.

00:50:02.000 The cartels are stronger than ever, period.

00:50:04.000 They're richer than ever.

00:50:05.000 They have more arms than ever.

00:50:06.000 They're more sophisticated than ever.

00:50:08.000 And one of the promises that I used to believe in from a lot of libertarians is legalize weed and the cartels are going to be able to do whatever they want to do.

00:50:15.000 They won't be able to do what they want to do.

00:50:16.000 They get shut down.

00:50:17.000 That's just not true.

00:50:18.000 It just isn't.

00:50:19.000 It was a total lie.

00:50:20.000 I could say I live in Arizona.

00:50:21.000 The cartels are stronger than ever.

00:50:22.000 Another thing that I've become less libertarian on is the legal issue of immigration.

00:50:28.000 I used to be, yeah, okay, if you want to come here and work.

00:50:31.000 I totally didn't quite understand the complications of assimilation and kind of cultural influences and all that.

00:50:37.000 And I'll be honest, just kind of more generally about libertarianism.

00:50:40.000 And I don't mean this as an accusation or any of your listeners or all that.

00:50:43.000 I think some parts of libertarianism are far too focused on abstractions, like way too focused on it.

00:50:48.000 Like I've read all the books, okay?

00:50:50.000 I read Rothbard, I read Mises, I read Bastiat, I read Friedman, I read Rand.

00:50:55.000 I mean, I could quote a lot of it.

00:50:56.000 I understand it deeply.

00:50:58.000 And then I realize that a lot of it is just very idealistic, built for academic arguments.

00:51:04.000 It could be helpful and instructive at times, but it's not, it's not, I don't believe it's a governing principle or a way to live your life at all.

00:51:11.000 But you, I mean, you don't think this country was like the founding fathers were basically libertarian in their principles?

00:51:17.000 No, of course not.

00:51:19.000 No way.

00:51:19.000 No, I mean, like, look, Thomas Jefferson was talking against sodomy laws in Virginia, in favor of sodomy laws in Virginia.

00:51:27.000 That's not libertarian.

00:51:28.000 Like they had state-run religions.

00:51:31.000 Like, that's not libertarian.

00:51:32.000 The national government might have been libertarian.

00:51:34.000 And I'll be very clear: like, I would love to live in a country where everyone, like, it was live and let live.

00:51:39.000 And I think that's idealistically nice, but there's one gun on the table, right?

00:51:44.000 And so there's three ways this ends up.

00:51:46.000 We can all live in a free society where we all treat each other well.

00:51:48.000 That's not going to happen.

00:51:49.000 Okay.

00:51:50.000 Or they have the gun or we have the gun.

00:51:53.000 It's that simple.

00:51:55.000 I wish it wasn't.

00:51:56.000 I mean, there's a fourth option, which is this idea that's been bubbling up of national divorce.

00:52:02.000 The concept being that the two are completely irreconcilable, and that even if there's any kind of victory in terms of some kind of conservative Republican landslide, it is, you know, the pendulum is only going to swing for a short period of time and eventually it's going to revert to the left and it's going to just be this kind of interminable war against one group of people versus another group of people.

00:52:24.000 Whereas if there were two guns, one group can do as they well please, the other group goes as they well please, and everyone will be happier ever after.

00:52:31.000 We don't really, I mean, we complain about, you know, the policies in Canada, but no one really cares to the extent that they care about the policies less than most of Chicago or New York.

00:52:42.000 Yeah, sort of.

00:52:43.000 I mean, I've talked about national divorce.

00:52:48.000 I'm sure you've seen some pretty messy divorces. 0.97

00:52:50.000 So who gets the military?

00:52:52.000 Like, I mean, there's some pretty serious questions.

00:52:55.000 How do you break what states together and for what purposes?

00:52:58.000 What I think you're striking at, though, is something I can agree with libertarians on a lot, which is a revival of self-government and local government, which I think needs to be the necessary step and kind of the restoration of what a republic actually is, not this overly federalized system.

00:53:13.000 But I'm afraid that this idea of a national divorce would be way messier than people realize.

00:53:17.000 So at least in the short term, in the immediate, I'm going to keep on fighting for my fellow countrymen.

00:53:22.000 But I mean, whether it's in New York City or whether it's in Chicago or San Francisco or LA, but I'm also realistic that I don't want to live in a country with most people that live in San Francisco and they don't want to live in a country with me.

00:53:32.000 That's probably unsustainable.

00:53:35.000 So the best way is that can we take over enough positions of power to try to mediate some form of a detente where it's like, you guys keep on stepping out of line.

00:53:44.000 You better stay in your corner and we'll stay in ours.

00:53:47.000 That's the only practical solution.

00:53:49.000 Otherwise, I'm afraid what comes next.

00:53:50.000 But I mean, detente is the Gerald Ford Henry Kissinger approach.

00:53:54.000 And then Ronald Reagan, before he was president, said, let me give you my strategy for the Cold War.

00:53:58.000 We win, they lose.

00:54:00.000 But I'm saying the détente comes after we win.

00:54:00.000 That's right.

00:54:03.000 Well, I mean, the detente means stalemate.

00:54:06.000 That means like, how is it a détente if they're it's not a détente?

00:54:09.000 Well, because I mean, you're not going to get rid of the LGBT activists in San Francisco, right?

00:54:13.000 You're just going to make it so they have no power.

00:54:15.000 Like, no, you're not able to go after children.

00:54:17.000 You're not able to go into the schools.

00:54:19.000 You're not able to go into curriculum, right?

00:54:21.000 And so if the national project is going to continue, then somebody has to win, right?

00:54:26.000 And I believe still that to my core that 60 to 70% of Americans think what's going on is insane.

00:54:32.000 That, yes, we want borders.

00:54:34.000 We want to have our liberties protected, that our children should be off limits, and that the psychos that run the country from Malibu and Manhattan can and should be completely put into a permanent political minority.

00:54:45.000 Don't you think that the lockdowns and quarantining demonstrated that in fact 60 to 70% of Americans were perfectly happy to sacrifice their liberties if the people on the televisions told them that this is something that needs to happen?

00:55:00.000 That's a very good point, but it didn't last because we did our job and we were out there and educating and talking and then the tide turned.

00:55:09.000 Now lockdowns are super unpopular, right?

00:55:11.000 And mass mandates aren't popular.

00:55:13.000 What you're striking at is something that I find very hard to disagree with, which is what is actually the raw material I'm dealing with?

00:55:20.000 Am I dealing with a liberty-loving, freedom-loving population?

00:55:23.000 I want to believe that.

00:55:25.000 I do.

00:55:26.000 Maybe we're slow to the truth in our country, or maybe I'm woefully idealistic and I'm actually living in a country that wants a totalitarian government.

00:55:36.000 I'm going to reject that.

00:55:37.000 And in fact, I believe I have to.

00:55:38.000 I think it's a moral obligation to the nation that we're inheritors of this beautiful, this beautiful country.

00:55:44.000 But yeah, I will say this, though, that versus other countries, we have a lot of fight left in us. 0.65

00:55:50.000 We really do.

00:55:51.000 And I think we're just starting to see Americans start to fight back.

00:55:54.000 I really do.

00:55:55.000 And I think self-government is on the rise.

00:55:56.000 People are starting to ask questions of how can I sustain myself?

00:55:59.000 How can I be able to feed my family, you know, navigate the waterways, navigate the highways outside of government control.

00:56:08.000 So, but it's a hard, it's a difficult point to counter.

00:56:11.000 One of the things I am most heartened by is how so many people, regular people, not necessarily public figures, although that has changed a little bit with people like Carrie Lake in Arizona and Governor Sanders and others, is how many people are willing to go up to corporate journalists who are on the street or trying to get interviews and be antagonistic toward them.

00:56:34.000 Yes.

00:56:34.000 Call them out on their BS, as opposed to years where Republicans and conservatives would be yelling at, let's suppose, Pelosi or Obama or Biden, whereas the New York Times and all these other, the Washington Post could be safe in their offices lobbing bombs and no one's coming near them.

00:56:51.000 Is this something that you also see as a white pill in terms of saving?

00:56:56.000 Oh, I totally agree.

00:56:57.000 It's such a good point.

00:56:58.000 I mean, it's just regular people challenging tyrants gives me hope.

00:57:02.000 And I just want to reinforce this, that let me take your premise from the final previous question.

00:57:06.000 60 to 70% of Americans don't love freedom.

00:57:09.000 Well, it only takes a small group of liberty lovers, though, to light fires of liberty in every corner.

00:57:13.000 It's Samuel Adams' favorite, you know, famous quote, to eventually people will start to catch on.

00:57:17.000 All it takes is a person here and there to go confront Gavin Newsom when he's in Napa Valley.

00:57:21.000 Hey, why are you here?

00:57:22.000 What's going on?

00:57:23.000 You get Botox recently?

00:57:24.000 Like, you look kind of weird.

00:57:25.000 Like, are you going to French laundry again?

00:57:27.000 Like, that kind of citizen journalism, what we call the rise of the citizen at Turning Point USA, rise of the citizen, gives me great, great hope.

00:57:34.000 And I will say, though, that you're dealing also with something that can constantly change.

00:57:40.000 And so it's incumbent on us, those of us that have platforms, to make arguments and to know the pie can increase.

00:57:45.000 And that even though not everyone is with us now, more people can be with us.

00:57:49.000 And so the untold story, or I should say the unexpected benefit of COVID was a lot of people realizing how corrupt and deceitful and treacherous, not just our government, though.

00:58:02.000 Pfizer is, Moderna, AstraZeneca, Facebook.

00:58:06.000 It's the power structures in general, not just the CDC, the FDA, and the federal government.

00:58:12.000 And so, look, the fact that regular everyday people are rising up to challenge authority, it's probably one of our best hopes.

00:58:19.000 One of my biggest, we're almost out.

00:58:21.000 One of my biggest criticisms of President Trump is how he left the January 6th people who were his biggest supporters in some ways out to dry.

00:58:29.000 He has not really spoken out in favor of them or done much to defend them.

00:58:33.000 What is your take on that position?

00:58:35.000 Yeah, I don't know.

00:58:35.000 He's talked a fair amount.

00:58:37.000 I don't know about that.

00:58:37.000 Are you talking about the political prisoners in DC?

00:58:40.000 Yeah.

00:58:41.000 I mean, some people have said, you know, that they would like to see more action there.

00:58:47.000 I mean, I'll say this.

00:58:48.000 The nonviolent ones, yes.

00:58:50.000 Some of them are being charged for some pretty serious stuff.

00:58:52.000 However, regardless of that, zero of them should be in solitary confinement.

00:58:56.000 Zero of them should be political prisoners.

00:58:59.000 And all of them should be treated like anyone else in a different political stripe that did what they did.

00:59:02.000 So I just want to be very clear.

00:59:03.000 I condemn the violence.

00:59:04.000 And there's some guys that were banging police officers over the head.

00:59:07.000 Not good at all.

00:59:08.000 But I've spoken out against it.

00:59:10.000 I mean, political prisoners, and you know this very well, you talk about on your program.

00:59:14.000 That is a sign of a totalitarian government more than anything else.

00:59:17.000 I'm rereading a phenomenal book, Darkness at Noon, by Arthur Kessler.

00:59:22.000 Yeah, it's fabulous, all about political prison.

00:59:24.000 The whole book's about political prisoners.

00:59:25.000 And it just says in such vivid detail, it's like, wow, this is what's happened to the January 6th defendants.

00:59:30.000 It doesn't matter what you've done.

00:59:31.000 It doesn't matter your history.

00:59:32.000 They're going to try to find a fact pattern, even if they have to create it to put you in prison.

00:59:38.000 Charlie, we're running out of time.

00:59:39.000 What has been your favorite part of this interview?

00:59:43.000 I love being asked about the libertarian thing.

00:59:45.000 I love it.

00:59:45.000 I mean, I wish I had more time because the thing is, I mean, no one can kind of like out-libertarian the literature with me.

00:59:52.000 So I get all of it, right?

00:59:54.000 And so I have to come back on and we should talk about it.

00:59:56.000 And you could have a libertarian on because at a deep level, I have such respect for some of the beauty of the arguments.

01:00:02.000 I really do.

01:00:02.000 Von Mises was a legitimately brilliant person, right?

01:00:06.000 Rothbard made some unbelievable points.

01:00:08.000 Same with Friedman and Soul and all these guys.

01:00:10.000 So anyway, I just enjoy talking about that because it was a big part of my life.

01:00:14.000 You are welcome.

01:00:18.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

01:00:19.000 Email me your thoughts as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

01:00:22.000 Thanks so much.

01:00:23.000 Talk to you soon.

01:00:26.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - August 20, 2022

My Conversation with Michael Malice

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