The Charlie Kirk Show - My Conversation with Tucker Carlson on Addiction, Russia, and Religion

00:00:00.000 Today on the Charlie Kirk Show, a very special episode, an advertiser-free episode.

00:00:00.000 Hey, everybody.

00:00:04.000 No advertisers on this episode at all for my private and amazing conversation with Tucker Carlson.

00:00:09.000 It's about an hour-long conversation.

00:00:11.000 And it was really interesting and super informative.

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00:01:12.000 Tucker Carlson is here.

00:01:13.000 Buckle up, everybody.

00:01:14.000 Here we go.

00:01:15.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

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00:01:49.000 Hey, everybody, welcome to this episode of the Charlie Kirk Show.

00:01:51.000 With us, again, Tucker Carlson.

00:01:54.000 You know, I usually drink the French product.

00:01:55.000 You've got the Italian product, but is it better?

00:01:57.000 Are you drinking?

00:01:59.000 Slightly small.

00:01:59.000 I'm not going to admit that as an American.

00:02:01.000 I'm very pro-American.

00:02:02.000 I do drink a French beverage.

00:02:04.000 Because the last time you spoke at Turning Point USA, you had the Perrier on the podium.

00:02:04.000 No, that's okay.

00:02:09.000 I'm not subtle in my product endorsements.

00:02:11.000 How does it not make you burp every five seconds when you have that?

00:02:15.000 You know, I quit drinking in 2002 and promptly went to my college roommate's wedding in Italy where everyone was just like loaded the whole time.

00:02:24.000 And I thought to myself, I probably should find an option here.

00:02:28.000 And I'd never had sparkling water in my life since I'm just so thoroughly American.

00:02:32.000 And I started drinking it and I never stopped.

00:02:34.000 I don't know why, but I really dig it.

00:02:38.000 Did your life improve when you stopped drinking?

00:02:40.000 Did my life improve?

00:02:41.000 Yeah.

00:02:42.000 Yeah.

00:02:43.000 No, I asked because there's so many young people that message us and talk to us.

00:02:47.000 They say, you know, I'm struggling with this and they don't, it's not even an option to stop.

00:02:53.000 Well, you know, there are two kinds of people.

00:02:55.000 I spent the last 20 years talking to people who are quitting drinking, not that I'm any expert on it, but I have done it.

00:03:01.000 And a lot of, I mean, I think addiction is one of the great issues, certainly in the top two or three issues that the country faces.

00:03:08.000 People don't talk about it at all.

00:03:10.000 People are on drugs.

00:03:11.000 And a lot of those drugs come from physicians.

00:03:13.000 They've been prescribed, which is, in my view, a crime, but it continues totally unabated or even unquestioned.

00:03:19.000 And I've watched a lot of people get off a lot of different substances.

00:03:23.000 And there are really two varieties.

00:03:24.000 There are people who feel almost immediately liberated by it.

00:03:27.000 There's a tough period.

00:03:28.000 If you've been doing something, anything, if you've been, you know, running marathons every year for your life and you stop, you feel an effect.

00:03:34.000 And that is very true for drinking and the rest of it.

00:03:37.000 But there are people who, when they quit and they get over that period, feel really liberated by it.

00:03:44.000 I feel happy on Sunday morning.

00:03:45.000 I mean, the number of hungover mornings in church I've had is like crazy.

00:03:49.000 And I feel really good.

00:03:49.000 And now I'm not.

00:03:50.000 And your sleep is better.

00:03:51.000 And I enjoyed it from probably two months in.

00:03:55.000 See, this is amazing.

00:03:57.000 My brother, same thing.

00:03:59.000 We're Scandinavian.

00:04:00.000 There's a lot of quitting drinking going on.

00:04:02.000 And then there's another category of people, and I know a number of them who really just don't like it.

00:04:07.000 They don't like it.

00:04:08.000 They don't like being sober.

00:04:09.000 They feel anxious about it.

00:04:11.000 It doesn't fit them well.

00:04:12.000 They feel like they can't socialize without it.

00:04:15.000 My heart goes out to them.

00:04:16.000 I think it has to do with their essential makeup.

00:04:19.000 I don't really know what to make of it, but I've known a lot of people like this.

00:04:21.000 Hunter Biden, who was my neighbor, was like this.

00:04:24.000 I'm being honest.

00:04:25.000 A perfectly fine guy, but was never happy being sober, just anxious.

00:04:30.000 Oh, he did.

00:04:31.000 Oh, he definitely tried.

00:04:32.000 He tried.

00:04:32.000 Oh, for sure.

00:04:33.000 He had a wonderful wife, really a great person.

00:04:36.000 And she, you know, she helped him a lot, but he was never happy with it.

00:04:41.000 I talked to him about it many times.

00:04:42.000 And I've known a number of people like that.

00:04:44.000 And people like that will almost certainly drink again.

00:04:48.000 It's very hard to stop yourself from doing something you really want to do.

00:04:52.000 I have decided, having watched people for a long time.

00:04:54.000 It is.

00:04:55.000 You got to want to, you got to get rid of the desire or else you will do it.

00:04:55.000 It's very, very hard.

00:04:59.000 Whatever it is.

00:05:01.000 You did a monologue on the opioids.

00:05:04.000 Are you comfortable discussing that?

00:05:04.000 Yes.

00:05:06.000 For sure.

00:05:07.000 I had, you know, I mean, I was not a drug addict or anything, but I grew up in California.

00:05:12.000 I've certainly been around a lot of different stuff.

00:05:14.000 I didn't have any experience with opioids.

00:05:17.000 That wasn't a thing where I grew up.

00:05:20.000 I don't think it was a thing in American society more broadly, except, you know, shooting heroin in some, you know, ghetto somewhere in the 70s.

00:05:28.000 That was so far from where I was from that it was, you know, just wasn't even an option.

00:05:31.000 So I really didn't, other than have my wisdom teeth out, taking one pain pill after an appendectomy, I had no experience of it.

00:05:39.000 I had back surgery quite unexpectedly a few weeks ago, and they put me on all these drugs.

00:05:46.000 I don't even take Advil.

00:05:47.000 I'm very against drugs.

00:05:48.000 I really, really hate drugs and I mean it.

00:05:51.000 I don't talk about it too much because I don't want to sound, I don't know.

00:05:54.000 I just don't talk.

00:05:55.000 I don't want, you know, just don't talk about it very much, but I really feel that way very strongly in my own life.

00:05:59.000 And all of a sudden, I'm on these things.

00:06:01.000 And the first things like three days, the first thing I noticed was my courage evaporated.

00:06:07.000 I was afraid.

00:06:08.000 I was instantly afraid.

00:06:10.000 I was afraid of paranoid or just no, I had just had this back problem.

00:06:14.000 I had a, I blew up a disc.

00:06:16.000 And for six weeks, I was in bed all day because I couldn't sit down because of this.

00:06:23.000 I mean, it's not very interesting at all.

00:06:24.000 Millions of people have had disc problems.

00:06:25.000 And you know, myself and you have too.

00:06:27.000 And getting out of the car today, you're like, oh, my static nerve.

00:06:30.000 It's true.

00:06:30.000 You know, people have had it and know what you're talking about.

00:06:32.000 But it was fine.

00:06:33.000 I did my show every night.

00:06:35.000 You know, I was, I was in pain, but it wasn't wrecking my life.

00:06:38.000 It was certainly taking a lot of my attention.

00:06:41.000 Sometimes I couldn't sleep, but I read another PG Woodhouse novel.

00:06:44.000 It's fine.

00:06:44.000 The second I took the opioid painkiller, my overriding concern became not feeling pain.

00:06:52.000 It was one of the weirdest things.

00:06:54.000 Even though biochemically it was.

00:06:56.000 You know, I don't know enough about it.

00:06:57.000 Unfortunately, I have to write a long script every day.

00:06:59.000 So a lot of things fall through the cracks.

00:07:00.000 My curiosity remains unsatisfied on so many different topics.

00:07:03.000 And this is one of them.

00:07:04.000 I haven't taken the time to learn about it.

00:07:05.000 So I don't know the answer.

00:07:07.000 I'm sure it's publicly available instantly.

00:07:09.000 I just haven't, I just don't know what it is.

00:07:11.000 But I know what happened to me, which is all of a sudden, I became, I became really concerned that I would feel like a lot of pain.

00:07:19.000 I had been in pain for six weeks.

00:07:21.000 And it was, you know, anyone who's ever had it will know what it's like.

00:07:24.000 It's, it's intense, but it's not, it didn't make me deeply unhappy.

00:07:29.000 I was just suffering and suffering is part of it.

00:07:31.000 And that's just, you know, that's just, that happens to you from time to time.

00:07:34.000 In fact, you learn from it.

00:07:34.000 And it's okay.

00:07:36.000 The drug completely changed my attitude completely.

00:07:40.000 And I hated it.

00:07:41.000 I felt totally diminished.

00:07:43.000 I felt like I feel like something really important in me had been neutralized or neutered or had died.

00:07:50.000 And maybe I'm the only one who's had this experience.

00:07:52.000 I don't think that I am.

00:07:53.000 And the insight I had was, which is not a very deep one, but it's meaningful, I believe.

00:07:53.000 I don't think so.

00:07:59.000 There are millions of people who are in this state every day in this country.

00:08:04.000 Opioids now have a terrible reputation well earned from the Sacklers and from Purdue Pharma and what they did.

00:08:10.000 You know, particularly to Kentucky and West Virginia, but to a lot of different states, Northern New England.

00:08:10.000 Yes.

00:08:16.000 But opioids are still very common, but they're not the only prescription drugs.

00:08:21.000 I mean, benzos as an entire benzodiazepines as an entire class are still widely prescribed.

00:08:28.000 I would say profligately prescribed and kids take them and kids OD from them all the time.

00:08:35.000 But even the kids who don't OD or develop dependency on them lose something.

00:08:38.000 You lose something in your soul when you're on drugs like that.

00:08:44.000 And no one ever says it.

00:08:45.000 Why?

00:08:46.000 I think because it's ubiquitous is the answer.

00:08:49.000 It's like you see this with a bunch of different things.

00:08:52.000 And I certainly don't want to get preachy on the side of the times, whatever.

00:08:56.000 I mean, look, I'm an Episcopalian.

00:08:58.000 It's hard for me just because the way I was raised to be like, oh, you shouldn't be doing that.

00:09:04.000 But the truth is there, you know, the core problems in our society are not like coronavirus or the eastern, you know, border of eastern Ukraine or police brutality, George Floyd's death.

00:09:16.000 Like, yeah, okay.

00:09:18.000 These are problems because we overreacted to them.

00:09:21.000 But in the scope of history, they don't really rate actually.

00:09:24.000 And I would include Corona in that.

00:09:25.000 It was our reaction to it that made it this world historic event.

00:09:29.000 That doesn't mean that there aren't history changing problems right in front of us.

00:09:34.000 One of them is drug addiction.

00:09:36.000 Another is the mismanagement of our fiscal policy and the inflation that we're seeing as a result.

00:09:41.000 But here's what's interesting to me.

00:09:43.000 These are really obvious problems.

00:09:44.000 These are problems that will change the course of your country, civilization, history, species, thank you, the drop in testosterone levels. 1.00

00:09:52.000 These are big things and they're ignored.

00:09:54.000 And my theory is, can't prove it, that they're ignored precisely because they are the big things, that there's something about the human brain that can't actually metabolize the fact there's a meteor streaking toward us. 0.98

00:10:08.000 She's like, shit, I better rearrange the bookshelves or whatever. 0.96

00:10:10.000 I mean, we're all like this. 0.99

00:10:12.000 I used to have a story due every Friday when I was a magazine writer.

00:10:12.000 I'm like this.

00:10:15.000 And the pressure was intense back when they printed magazines.

00:10:18.000 And I would have called Snater like, we have to send this to a printing plant in Pennsylvania.

00:10:22.000 Like, file your story, buddy.

00:10:23.000 It's the cover.

00:10:24.000 And I remember standing up once and literally thinking, should I rearrange the shelves by title or author?

00:10:30.000 Because I just couldn't deal with the enormity of this, you know, when I was 25, this disaster coming toward me at high speed, which is, I'm going to blow the whole magazine.

00:10:37.000 I couldn't handle it.

00:10:38.000 And I feel like as a country, we're there.

00:10:40.000 But isn't it the responsibility of leaders to look at the media?

00:10:44.000 But if you just, and I'm not, I know I sound like a liberal when I say this, blaming the system rather than the individual, but I think there's some truth in it.

00:10:44.000 Of course.

00:10:52.000 If you design a system that elevates mediocre people on the basis of irrelevant criteria, and by the irrelevant criteria, I don't just mean affirmative action, though that's part of what I mean.

00:11:01.000 But I mean, like, you know, are you a child of the class into which you're being installed?

00:11:06.000 Like nepotism, which has always been a factor in every society, I think is all around us and we don't acknowledge it.

00:11:12.000 And I think it's a huge problem.

00:11:14.000 So basically we are training people to run the country.

00:11:18.000 We're doing that through universities, of course, but we're not giving them the skills you need to run a massive, incredibly complex continental country that leads the world like ours.

00:11:30.000 And so we just have incapable people.

00:11:32.000 I mean, look at the Secretary of State.

00:11:34.000 Tony Blinken.

00:11:36.000 The rock star.

00:11:36.000 He's like a joke.

00:11:37.000 He's a joke, actually.

00:11:39.000 I mean, I'm from Washington.

00:11:41.000 I mean, I don't get personal or mean or anything.

00:11:43.000 I don't hate Tony Blinker or anything.

00:11:44.000 But clearly, this is a guy who's like not prepared to lead our foreign policy at all.

00:11:49.000 I don't think he's cognitively capable of it.

00:11:52.000 Don't think he has the experience.

00:11:53.000 I don't think he has the wisdom.

00:11:54.000 And it's not just him.

00:11:55.000 It's like everybody.

00:11:56.000 Yes.

00:11:57.000 So the system itself is not producing wise leaders.

00:12:00.000 It's not producing people who are grounded in physical reality.

00:12:03.000 It's producing people who, as like a matter of habit, deny nature and people's natural needs and like the imperatives that don't change about the world.

00:12:13.000 Last thing I'll say, God, now I am getting born.

00:12:15.000 If you're running a society, like there are a couple of really basic questions that you ask in every society, in every peer in history.

00:12:23.000 Do I have enough food?

00:12:24.000 Where does the food come from?

00:12:25.000 Do I have enough clean water?

00:12:27.000 Do I have the ability to defend myself from invasion?

00:12:31.000 Right.

00:12:31.000 These are the basic things.

00:12:33.000 Do I have enough energy?

00:12:34.000 How am I going to keep warm in the winter?

00:12:36.000 How am I going to make things?

00:12:37.000 Like the Romans asked themselves these questions.

00:12:40.000 Every civilization does.

00:12:41.000 I feel like those are the last questions we ask.

00:12:43.000 It's all about pregnant flight suits at this point. 1.00

00:12:47.000 And you have to ask, like, what?

00:12:50.000 How can you run a country and not be like totally fixated on energy, food, and water?

00:12:55.000 Like, how can you do that?

00:12:57.000 Because you've gotten so far from people's natural needs and the physical reality of the world around you that you really think that putting gender advisors in marine platoons is like the most pressing duty you have.

00:13:12.000 And I mean, it's no, it's not.

00:13:15.000 You got me going, Charlie.

00:13:16.000 Affluence covers a multitude of sins.

00:13:19.000 That's it.

00:13:20.000 It's exactly right.

00:13:21.000 This is third generation inherited money family blown up to scale.

00:13:25.000 Take a sip of coffee and then talk about that.

00:13:26.000 Well, I mean, it's I don't want to interrupt your question.

00:13:29.000 I mean, I grew up in, you know, I'm very familiar with that world.

00:13:32.000 So, um, and you notice, and this is information available to anyone who reads People magazine, you know, families lose energy and focus, self-discipline over time if it's too easy.

00:13:47.000 This is really obvious.

00:13:48.000 I mean, I, you know, I will admit that this has been a factor in my own family.

00:13:51.000 So, you know, I'm very familiar with, we're all familiar with this.

00:13:55.000 We all know of, you know, super impressive, whether you like them or not, but profoundly energetic people who create something that didn't exist before and are rewarded for it.

00:14:04.000 They're rich people.

00:14:06.000 No one really resents them.

00:14:07.000 They did something amazing, you know?

00:14:10.000 I would even say that of people I don't like whose politics I hate.

00:14:13.000 I can step back far enough to say, that's pretty impressive you did that.

00:14:16.000 I hate Google.

00:14:17.000 But, you know, the guys who created it.

00:14:17.000 Okay.

00:14:19.000 I don't know.

00:14:19.000 Sir Debra.

00:14:20.000 Yeah.

00:14:21.000 I mean, I think Google's terrible for our society.

00:14:22.000 I think it's really wrecked a lot, but I can still sort of respect.

00:14:25.000 Well, they made Google.

00:14:26.000 I didn't.

00:14:26.000 That's impressive.

00:14:28.000 You've got to wonder like how many second generation people like that are there.

00:14:34.000 I met a few, two, actually, that I can think of.

00:14:37.000 I'm not going to name them, but who are really impressive, who took what they were given and turned it into something bigger or turned into something more meaningful or lived really engaged, meaningful lives.

00:14:47.000 Third generation, it's never existed.

00:14:50.000 Fourth generation, you're in rehab half the time.

00:14:52.000 Like we never see you.

00:14:53.000 You're in Malibu.

00:14:55.000 So this is something that's universal in families.

00:14:59.000 Why would those rules of nature be suspended for countries?

00:15:03.000 I mean, I hope there's a reason.

00:15:04.000 I hope that we escape the inevitable outcome of generational wealth, but I don't know that we will.

00:15:11.000 Yeah.

00:15:12.000 And you're able to worry about gender identity or, you know, North African lesbian poetry when you have the abundance that we're, that we have.

00:15:21.000 100%.

00:15:22.000 I mean, they're not worrying about this in Sierra Leone.

00:15:25.000 They're not worrying about diversity in the.

00:15:29.000 No.

00:15:29.000 And I've seen it in my own life.

00:15:31.000 I mean, I've been through periods where, you know, I really like legitimately didn't have enough money and had to make like massive life changes with children involved because of it.

00:15:39.000 And that's a huge bummer.

00:15:40.000 And I mean, nothing, you know, wasn't homeless or anything, but I've definitely run out of money.

00:15:45.000 And your concerns change.

00:15:46.000 You're like, hmm, I've got tuition to pay.

00:15:49.000 I'm getting another job.

00:15:50.000 And like, that's your whole life.

00:15:51.000 Like you're doing what it takes.

00:15:53.000 And there is not super fun all the time, but there's a clarity about it that's really gratifying.

00:15:59.000 It's like, I've got a really clear mission.

00:16:00.000 My mission is got four kids.

00:16:02.000 They're in school. 0.99

00:16:03.000 Probably shouldn't have sent them to these stupid private schools, but I did because I live in a city and now I have to pay the tuition. 1.00

00:16:07.000 And that's what I'm doing. 1.00

00:16:08.000 What's my job?

00:16:09.000 Paying tuition.

00:16:10.000 And I did that for years and I kind of resented it, but I was also pretty proud of myself that I was able to pull it off.

00:16:16.000 Give you purpose.

00:16:17.000 It totally did.

00:16:18.000 I never had to wonder like, what am I doing today?

00:16:20.000 I'm paying tuition.

00:16:21.000 That's what I did yesterday.

00:16:22.000 It's what I'll do tomorrow. 0.98

00:16:23.000 It's like I have, and if you take a few steps back, like, well, that's pathetic. 0.98

00:16:27.000 That's your mission? 1.00

00:16:28.000 Paying tuition to some stupid Episcopal school that's completely rot the brains of your own children. 1.00

00:16:33.000 Why would you ever send them to a place like that? 1.00

00:16:35.000 Separate conversation.

00:16:37.000 But when you're in it, it provides a clarity that is at least speaking as a man is a beautiful thing.

00:16:45.000 The vast majority of men I know who've melted down meltdown after they get what they want.

00:16:50.000 Getting what you want is the great tragedy.

00:16:52.000 Totally.

00:16:52.000 100%.

00:16:53.000 It's like, I sold the company to private equity for a billion dollars.

00:16:56.000 And, you know, you have a celebration and Aspen and, you know, all your kids are like doing the calculations.

00:17:01.000 Well, how much, oh, I'm rich too.

00:17:03.000 And the whole family's super psyched.

00:17:04.000 You know what I mean?

00:17:06.000 What's that look like a year later?

00:17:08.000 I mean, maybe it looks great.

00:17:10.000 No, actually, I'm not going to lie.

00:17:12.000 That's not good.

00:17:12.000 It doesn't look great.

00:17:14.000 And I've never seen that.

00:17:15.000 And I've never seen it end happily ever.

00:17:15.000 I've seen it.

00:17:18.000 And I've certainly seen it in people I know well end in like existential crisis.

00:17:23.000 Like, what, what's the point of this?

00:17:25.000 You know, I can say the hotel I want.

00:17:27.000 I can fly to Barbados for the weekend in my plane.

00:17:30.000 Like, who cares?

00:17:31.000 Like, that's not actually gratifying.

00:17:32.000 I mean, by the way, not being poor, not having debt is great.

00:17:36.000 And that's where I am.

00:17:37.000 Super happy about it.

00:17:39.000 But anything over that does not bring you happiness.

00:17:43.000 And I just, I've been on both sides.

00:17:45.000 You did a monologue where at the end, you say people are devoid of purpose.

00:17:49.000 And then you use the word meaning.

00:17:51.000 Reminded me of Victor Frankl's book, Man Search for Meaning, one of the best books ever, where there's three different types of wills that he organized.

00:17:57.000 Will the power, very Nietzschean, will the pleasure, and then will to meaning.

00:18:02.000 What gives your life meaning?

00:18:02.000 Right.

00:18:03.000 My life?

00:18:04.000 Yeah.

00:18:05.000 Oh, well, I mean, my family.

00:18:07.000 I mean, it's not even a, not even a, no, it's obvious.

00:18:09.000 No, it is close.

00:18:11.000 But we have a generation that's told don't do that.

00:18:13.000 Oh, no.

00:18:14.000 I mean, that's the, that's the biggest lie.

00:18:16.000 Work at Citibank.

00:18:17.000 You could be a vice president.

00:18:18.000 What happens then?

00:18:18.000 Really?

00:18:19.000 What do I get?

00:18:22.000 Tax?

00:18:24.000 A wine problem?

00:18:25.000 Solitude?

00:18:26.000 I mean, it's like the biggest lie ever.

00:18:29.000 Work at Citibank.

00:18:30.000 You know, really what?

00:18:31.000 No, you shouldn't have kids. 0.93

00:18:33.000 What you should really do is like get a promotion.

00:18:36.000 Okay.

00:18:36.000 And then what happens?

00:18:38.000 Oh, I'm a corporate cog working for a creepy multinational publicly owned country.

00:18:42.000 Company doesn't care about me at all.

00:18:45.000 Let me just see nothing.

00:18:45.000 So what do I have?

00:18:47.000 Nothing.

00:18:48.000 No, I'm not, again, I just want to be super clear.

00:18:51.000 It's easier for me to say this because I'm not poor, but I'm being as honest as I can be when I say the threshold for happiness is getting rid of debt, getting rid of worry.

00:19:02.000 You don't want to worry about money.

00:19:03.000 Materially, yes.

00:19:04.000 That will make you unhappy.

00:19:05.000 I've been there.

00:19:06.000 So I'm not like one of these people like, oh, money doesn't matter.

00:19:08.000 Oh, it doesn't.

00:19:08.000 It's very Eastern.

00:19:09.000 Like, oh, it's just all, you know, that's a total lie.

00:19:11.000 No, I know, but I've been in debt.

00:19:13.000 I that's the other extreme.

00:19:15.000 Telling my wife what our credit card bill was and she bursts into tears.

00:19:18.000 So like, you know, that's unhappy.

00:19:20.000 And people are living that.

00:19:21.000 And I, I deeply sympathize, empathize.

00:19:24.000 But I'm just telling you on the other end of it, the threshold is paying off your debt and not worrying.

00:19:31.000 Above that, it's only trinkets.

00:19:34.000 And I mean that.

00:19:35.000 And I, I, so I, I, I mean that and I've lived it.

00:19:38.000 So um, you really have to have something that matters.

00:19:42.000 I mean, how are you passing your genes on, by the way?

00:19:45.000 This is like, I guess you're not allowed to say that or something.

00:19:48.000 The only things that matter are the things that eternally matter.

00:19:51.000 And I'm not just speaking about what happens after you die, though.

00:19:53.000 That's that's like one of the, you know, the big questions are: how are your kids?

00:19:58.000 Are they going to get married and reproduce so that your family continues after you die? 0.88

00:20:04.000 And then what happens after you die?

00:20:06.000 So, those are the questions.

00:20:07.000 Okay.

00:20:07.000 Those are the most basic questions that every civilization has fixated on because they're obvious.

00:20:13.000 They're right in front of your face.

00:20:14.000 Like, this ends.

00:20:15.000 People die.

00:20:15.000 Your elders die.

00:20:16.000 You're like, oh, people die.

00:20:16.000 Your parents die.

00:20:17.000 This ends.

00:20:18.000 Whoa, then what happens?

00:20:20.000 You're like, and then what? 1.00

00:20:22.000 If you can't even have a conversation about that, then like you're an idiot. 1.00

00:20:27.000 Like, you're actually an idiot. 1.00

00:20:28.000 And that's, of course, it also gives rise because those questions don't recede or disappear. 1.00

00:20:33.000 They just sublimate.

00:20:35.000 So that causes anxiety.

00:20:37.000 So you look at everyone in New York City freaking out about Omicron, which has killed not one person.

00:20:42.000 And these are like college-educated people.

00:20:44.000 They all went to Cornell and tell you they went to Ivy League school.

00:20:46.000 Cornell's not actually school.

00:20:48.000 Just so I know, it's an accident.

00:20:49.000 That's the true thought crime, by the way.

00:20:52.000 I don't care about any college at all, but I just love saying that because it offends them so much.

00:20:56.000 Oh, I went to Ivy League.

00:20:57.000 Really?

00:20:57.000 Which one?

00:20:58.000 Was it Cornell?

00:20:58.000 I bet it was Cornell.

00:20:59.000 Oh, you went to Cornell.

00:21:01.000 Okay, right.

00:21:01.000 And that's in Utica.

00:21:03.000 It's a key.

00:21:04.000 I know.

00:21:05.000 Call it Utica.

00:21:06.000 It drives them crazy.

00:21:08.000 Yeah.

00:21:08.000 So these are people who have like the essential credentials of our society.

00:21:11.000 I think they're high-functioning.

00:21:13.000 I, you know, I certainly know a lot of them.

00:21:14.000 I have relatives there. 0.97

00:21:16.000 They're not stupid necessarily. 0.99

00:21:18.000 Some of them are, but most are not stupid. 1.00

00:21:21.000 But they believe a cold, which has killed not one person globally. 0.99

00:21:25.000 The only person die of Omicron actually died with Omicron.

00:21:29.000 Not the same.

00:21:30.000 So like there's no demonstrated lethality here. 0.66

00:21:33.000 So why are you shutting your life down and canceling Christmas because you're neurotic?

00:21:38.000 It has nothing to do with Omicron.

00:21:40.000 It has to do with what's inside you.

00:21:42.000 And then the question is, well, what is that exactly?

00:21:44.000 What's inside you?

00:21:45.000 What are you so neurotic about, Charlie Kirk? 0.60

00:21:47.000 Have you never spent like 15 seconds thinking about what happens after you die, which you inevitably will, like every other living thing? 1.00

00:21:53.000 Oh, shut up. 0.99

00:21:55.000 Well, no wonder they're so neurotic. 1.00

00:21:56.000 You don't have kids.

00:21:58.000 So when you die, like that's kind of it for you.

00:22:00.000 Like you have within you, encoded within you in places that you cannot touch or change the desire to pass on.

00:22:08.000 But speaking of man, to pass on your genes.

00:22:11.000 You can't, that's not like some desire that you learned on a PBS show.

00:22:16.000 You were born with that.

00:22:17.000 Dogs have it.

00:22:18.000 That's biology.

00:22:20.000 So if you don't do that, it doesn't mean you're a bad person, but it does give rise to some anxiety.

00:22:25.000 And if you create a society that discourages that, then like you've got a society that's not serving people.

00:22:32.000 You've got a society that's driving people crazy.

00:22:34.000 So crazy that they think Omicron's going to kill them.

00:22:37.000 Or racism or whatever. 0.95

00:22:39.000 Or whatever.

00:22:39.000 Right.

00:22:39.000 You know, it's like sort of plug in your transference vehicle for the bumper sticker on the Prius.

00:22:47.000 Whatever they said.

00:22:48.000 But all of it is about this deep, unresolved anxiety within, unfortunately for the rest of us, a lot of the people who are running everything and have all the power.

00:22:57.000 That's the theology of Greta Thunberg, basically.

00:22:59.000 Yeah, poor Greta Thunberg. 1.00

00:23:00.000 She's just, I don't mean it to like attack.

00:23:02.000 I actually think she's a victim.

00:23:03.000 You're totally right.

00:23:04.000 She's totally a victim. 1.00

00:23:05.000 Like they're using a child. 0.98

00:23:06.000 It's disgusting. 0.98

00:23:07.000 Right. 1.00

00:23:08.000 To give you their dumb theory. 0.99

00:23:09.000 But it's the world is going to end. 0.99

00:23:10.000 Climate change or whatever.

00:23:12.000 Meteors coming, asteroid.

00:23:13.000 We need to.

00:23:14.000 You're not worry about climate change when you can get the OD deaths under, say, 50,000.

00:23:18.000 They're over 100 this year. 0.99

00:23:19.000 So like, shut up. 0.99

00:23:19.000 That's right. 0.99

00:23:21.000 Most oppressed generation in American history.

00:23:23.000 Most suicidal generation in American history.

00:23:26.000 Mostly.

00:23:26.000 Alcohol addicted, drug-addicted, least married on the verge of a population.

00:23:30.000 It's kind of weird that we have the oldest leadership in American history.

00:23:33.000 Do you think there's any connection?

00:23:34.000 Except the generic and octogenaries.

00:23:35.000 What do you mean by that?

00:23:35.000 That's interesting.

00:23:36.000 Well, let's see.

00:23:36.000 Joe Biden's 79.

00:23:38.000 Tony Fauci turns 81 this week.

00:23:39.000 He joins Nancy Pelosi, who's also 81.

00:23:42.000 So those three essentially run the country.

00:23:44.000 Most powerful Democrats.

00:23:45.000 And Schumer's like 76 or something.

00:23:47.000 Yeah.

00:23:47.000 You've got the most powerful Democrat in Washington.

00:23:50.000 and you've got the president of the United States and you've got the head of our public health apparatus and they're all in their 80s or about to get there.

00:23:59.000 That's not normal at all.

00:24:01.000 And I love and revere old people and I don't even mock Joe Biden's cognitive decline because I feel guilty because he's my elder, terrible president, but he's 79.

00:24:11.000 So like, don't make fun of him.

00:24:12.000 I feel that way.

00:24:13.000 However, when can we stop lying?

00:24:15.000 That's not a sign of a vigorous, healthy society when you've got 81-year-olds making all the decisions because they have a different perspective.

00:24:23.000 As you move through life, I'm probably closer to the, I'm definitely closer to the end of it than the beginning of it, but I'm, you know, middle-aged.

00:24:29.000 The back nine tells me.

00:24:30.000 I'm in the back, back nine.

00:24:33.000 But I can just tell you, like you're, my kids, my four kids all left and my perspective changed a little bit.

00:24:38.000 I don't have kids in the house.

00:24:40.000 Luckily, I have a lot of younger people working for me and I just had kids in the house.

00:24:43.000 So it's pretty fresh in my memory.

00:24:45.000 But if I didn't, if it had been 40 years since I had kids in the house and something like Corona shows up, my overriding concern would be not dying of it because I'm 80.

00:24:55.000 So I don't want to die of it.

00:24:56.000 And whatever it takes to keep me from dying of it, I would want to do, including like destroying young people who are not at risk for it. 0.99

00:25:03.000 So let's talk.

00:25:03.000 So let's build this out.

00:25:05.000 So whenever I say anything like this on the show, I get the nastiest emails from 70 and 80 year olds.

00:25:10.000 It wouldn't be the opposite.

00:25:11.000 Shouldn't they be caring more about the future and not themselves?

00:25:14.000 It's almost, it's very paradoxical.

00:25:16.000 You know, look, I don't know.

00:25:17.000 All I know is what's happening.

00:25:18.000 And again, I say this with, I have a, you know, my favorite relative is 80.

00:25:23.000 And so I have, I have deep love for older people.

00:25:27.000 I hope to be one.

00:25:28.000 And I have, I have reflexive respect for them because I was raised that way.

00:25:33.000 Period.

00:25:35.000 However, the facts are that people born, you know, post-war, 46 to 65, that famous generation, you know, took a lot of the spoils. 0.64

00:25:45.000 You're talking about baby boomers. 0.98

00:25:46.000 I am.

00:25:47.000 Especially late baby boomers.

00:25:48.000 That's exactly right.

00:25:49.000 And so that's just true.

00:25:50.000 Look at the numbers.

00:25:52.000 So you had this massive runup of wealth post-war as the United States took over the world.

00:25:58.000 And a wildly disproportionate percentage of that wealth went to that generation who are now aging out of their productive years.

00:26:05.000 And the people they left behind who are supposed to be moving up into the productive years are much poorer than any generation in the modern era.

00:26:14.000 And not just materially poor, but every other metric.

00:26:17.000 But also materially poor.

00:26:18.000 I mean, if you just want to just do it materially, because that's the easiest thing to measure, like we just use Department of Labor statistics for that.

00:26:25.000 Like they're much less likely.

00:26:26.000 I mean, the 30-year-old's living with roommates.

00:26:28.000 Okay.

00:26:29.000 And they can't get married and they can't have kids.

00:26:31.000 So if you don't see that as a crisis, or by the way, as the prelude to some actual turmoil, in addition to the moral imperative that we have to make sure that the next generation thrives, which is our overriding moral imperative.

00:26:44.000 It's what grandparents are programmed to.

00:26:45.000 Ask anybody to become a grandparent.

00:26:47.000 I'm pushing my children very hard to make me one.

00:26:50.000 Any grandparents like, I can't believe this.

00:26:51.000 It's so great.

00:26:53.000 Like grandparents go crazy over grandchildren.

00:26:55.000 It's like, I'm just learning this.

00:26:56.000 It's amazing to watch it.

00:26:57.000 Why do they do that?

00:26:58.000 Because what they're looking at is their own progeny.

00:27:01.000 They're looking at their own genes extending beyond their own death.

00:27:04.000 That's nature, okay, which has been banned, but I don't care.

00:27:08.000 That's what's so thrilling about it.

00:27:09.000 So grandparents have a huge role in preparing and protecting and helping the next generation thrive.

00:27:16.000 So it's not like old people are designed to hurt young people.

00:27:19.000 That's not what I'm saying.

00:27:20.000 I'm just confused why that's happening then.

00:27:20.000 I agree.

00:27:23.000 It is absolutely happening at such a scale that it's just like, I don't know, there's something about personally, I've always thought that generation had a disproportionate number of loathsome people in it.

00:27:34.000 And I mean that.

00:27:34.000 So I was born in 69.

00:27:36.000 So they were my teachers and they were defined by their narcissism.

00:27:40.000 That was kind of the overriding quality that stuck to me as a kid sitting in class, listening to them blather on about their time at Woodstock.

00:27:46.000 Teach me math, which they never did. 0.98

00:27:46.000 Shut up. 0.98

00:27:49.000 But I remember thinking, like, these people talk about themselves too much. 0.99

00:27:53.000 It's not good to talk about yourself all the time at all.

00:27:56.000 And they always did. 0.91

00:27:57.000 I mean, this has just been my, as an observer of that generation, I've always thought they were disgusting.

00:28:03.000 Not all of them.

00:28:03.000 I know a million people I love in that generation, but I always thought most of them are like the worst people I've ever met.

00:28:08.000 And so it shouldn't, and I really mean that.

00:28:11.000 And so it shouldn't maybe surprise us that they took all the dough and left everybody else like kind of wondering what the future holds.

00:28:18.000 Oh, you know, indentured servitude to the Chinese government.

00:28:21.000 Okay, good luck.

00:28:22.000 It's like, that's how it feels.

00:28:23.000 I'll be at Pebble Beach.

00:28:24.000 That's how it feels.

00:28:25.000 That's how it feels to young people.

00:28:26.000 Let me as a 52-year-old speak to you as a man in his 20s about how young people feel.

00:28:31.000 But I hear it.

00:28:31.000 No, no, you're constantly.

00:28:32.000 And I try to communicate this to people of that generation.

00:28:38.000 And they're not totally wrong when they say young people don't want to work and they're lazy, but whatever.

00:28:41.000 Like, fine, I think there's a part of that.

00:28:42.000 But we conservatives get it so wrong when they act as if the system is exactly the same as it was in the 1970s was now.

00:28:48.000 It's grotesquely.

00:28:49.000 But they act as if, oh, when I was in college, it was easy.

00:28:52.000 I didn't have to go to debt.

00:28:53.000 And we just got married and things got better.

00:28:55.000 It was what I have some problems with this guy, Eric Weinstein would call the ego, the embedded growth obligation.

00:28:59.000 Yeah.

00:29:00.000 And baby boomers like, of course, things get better. 1.00

00:29:02.000 They always get better.

00:29:03.000 But that's so unwise.

00:29:04.000 I mean, you have an obligation to, you know, wisdom is hard to acquire.

00:29:08.000 And like the knowledge of things that are eternal.

00:29:10.000 I work on it every day.

00:29:12.000 I sit my sauna for an hour every day trying to become wiser.

00:29:14.000 It doesn't, doesn't work most, most of the time, but you should at least try.

00:29:17.000 And by wise, it's not just what are the facts.

00:29:20.000 It's the bigger question, which is what do they mean?

00:29:23.000 Yes.

00:29:24.000 And, you know, it's hard to, again, it's very hard to achieve that.

00:29:28.000 I fail constantly, but it's our duty to try because we owe that to the people who will follow us.

00:29:35.000 I mean, this really is, I'm very interested in the natural world.

00:29:38.000 I'm a hunter and a fisherman and an owner of four dogs.

00:29:42.000 So I spend a lot of time thinking about animals.

00:29:44.000 I think about animals a lot.

00:29:44.000 I love animals.

00:29:46.000 I think we learn a lot from animals.

00:29:47.000 I think we ignore animals because maybe we learn too much.

00:29:50.000 The similarities are too profound. 1.00

00:29:52.000 You know, throw them in a giant shed and inject them with crap and kill them in the middle of the night or whatever. 1.00

00:29:57.000 I'm kind of, you know, a little more with Pete on that stuff. 1.00

00:30:00.000 But as a spiritual matter, I'm struck by how much we don't learn from watching them.

00:30:06.000 Like, how far away from human beings do we really think dogs are?

00:30:10.000 Like light years?

00:30:11.000 And you don't mean Darwinian in a Darwinian sense.

00:30:13.000 You just mean.

00:30:13.000 Not at all.

00:30:14.000 I mean that they're living things.

00:30:16.000 They're mammals that have highly evolved systems of communicating with one another.

00:30:22.000 They have highly evolved hierarchies.

00:30:24.000 Their behavior is not simple at all.

00:30:26.000 And the more you watch it, the more you're struck by it.

00:30:28.000 Like, wait a second, that's a dog.

00:30:30.000 Why are they doing that?

00:30:31.000 They're just a dog.

00:30:32.000 Like he literally eats dog food off the floor.

00:30:35.000 So like, why should I care what they do?

00:30:38.000 Watch them for a week and you're like, well, wait a second.

00:30:40.000 You know, these dogs like have very intense feelings about certain things.

00:30:44.000 The hierarchies of dogs are fascinating.

00:30:47.000 The rules they create for each other are fascinating.

00:30:50.000 So you watch all of this stuff and you're like, that's kind of what we do.

00:30:53.000 It's not exactly the same, but it's the same idea.

00:30:57.000 So then you realize, oh, we're animals too.

00:31:02.000 And we're the animals put in charge of all the other animals, in my opinion, as a Christian.

00:31:06.000 But it doesn't mean we're not animals.

00:31:07.000 We are.

00:31:07.000 Therefore, we are bound by roughly the same, or at least a set of natural rules.

00:31:14.000 Laws of nature.

00:31:15.000 Yes, that is real.

00:31:17.000 And in my opinion, the science-y, I'm trying to use profanity in your show, but it's science, it's science.

00:31:17.000 Yes.

00:31:25.000 You're throwing science at people don't understand.

00:31:27.000 There is no science.

00:31:28.000 There's a method that's exactly right.

00:31:30.000 Okay.

00:31:31.000 There's no book of science. 1.00

00:31:32.000 You moron. 1.00

00:31:33.000 Who gave you a degree from Cornell? 1.00

00:31:35.000 But anyway, A lot of this stuff seems like an elaborate attempt, perhaps not conscious, to keep us from considering that we are animals, that we do exist in nature, that we are bound by some limits that nature imposes.

00:31:52.000 It doesn't even need to be God-based, but these are just the rules.

00:31:56.000 Like if you stay out overnight below zero, you're going to die.

00:31:58.000 Like, I don't know what to say.

00:31:59.000 That's the rule.

00:32:00.000 You can't transition out of that.

00:32:01.000 You can't identify as someone who lives through exposure.

00:32:06.000 This is the issue no one wants to talk about.

00:32:09.000 Yeah, I know.

00:32:10.000 Where the ruling class believes in the malleable man.

00:32:14.000 Because they think they're God.

00:32:15.000 That's why they love abortion. 1.00

00:32:17.000 Their girls don't get abortions. 1.00

00:32:18.000 They don't actually love abortion.

00:32:20.000 They love the power over life and death.

00:32:22.000 That's why they love wars, especially the ones that are no cost to them.

00:32:26.000 If you're Anthony Blinken, if you're Tony Blinken and you're like a frustrated pop musician who wound up somehow as Secretary of State and you've never achieved anything in your life, the one thing that you can do, the one way you can exert power, how?

00:32:39.000 Killing people. 0.85

00:32:40.000 You're the Secretary of State. 1.00

00:32:41.000 You can force a war. 0.76

00:32:43.000 No, I'm saying, this is how they think.

00:32:45.000 So there's like a big coping mechanism or it's like these, look, one of the basic desires, as you noted, is to exert power over your environment.

00:32:54.000 Hey, world, I was here.

00:32:56.000 You know, my life meant something.

00:32:58.000 I am an individual in a sea of billions, yet still significant.

00:33:01.000 So in order to signal that, you know, you wave your arms, you exert power over something.

00:33:05.000 Like, I can drink this Pellegrino.

00:33:07.000 I am not an animal.

00:33:07.000 Like, I am a man.

00:33:08.000 I am a man.

00:33:10.000 So the higher up you go, the greater the desire is.

00:33:12.000 And that's whether they're in the first place to exert power, is people going to journalism, to exert power.

00:33:17.000 The more overriding your desire is.

00:33:19.000 And I would say most of the time, it's because you're compensating for this deep emptiness within.

00:33:23.000 You have a barren personal life most of the time.

00:33:26.000 You're not actually deriving fulfillment at home.

00:33:29.000 Your kids don't love you.

00:33:30.000 Your wife has contempt for you. 1.00

00:33:32.000 So you go to work and you're like, well, damn, you know, like, what can I add? 0.99

00:33:36.000 Invade Iran. 1.00

00:33:37.000 I'm not joking.

00:33:38.000 I'm not joking.

00:33:39.000 I'm not taking it as a person.

00:33:40.000 I'm not sure if I'm going to live my whole life around these people.

00:33:42.000 Like I, you look around, you're like, oh, wow, that person has a really sad personal life.

00:33:47.000 Oh, so does that one?

00:33:48.000 Oh, there's Mitch McConnell.

00:33:49.000 That's the saddest of all.

00:33:50.000 And, or whatever, you know, all these people.

00:33:54.000 And then it approaches like 90% of our political leaders have these sad, barren personal lives.

00:34:00.000 You're like, what are the odds of that?

00:34:02.000 If I picked, you know, 535 people out of the phone book, what percentage would have sad, barren, personal lives?

00:34:07.000 Maybe 40%, half, or whatever.

00:34:09.000 In a bad year, 60%?

00:34:11.000 Probably not 95%.

00:34:14.000 So like, how did we get to a political class where everybody has a sad, barren personal life?

00:34:20.000 And you finally conclude after 35 years there, as I did, maybe there's a connection between their sad, barren personal lives and the fact they are where they are.

00:34:28.000 Maybe they're compensating for what they don't have by exerting power over the people.

00:34:32.000 Oh, now I'm very much a sub-genius.

00:34:35.000 So it took me decades to figure this out.

00:34:37.000 But once I did, it explained pretty much everything.

00:34:40.000 So we're all just pawns in there, massive coping.

00:34:43.000 I mean, I'm actually not like, ask anybody who lives there, what percentage of members of Congress go home to like some happy spouse and well-adjusted children.

00:34:52.000 I mean, there are, I'm sure there is one, you know, I'm sure there are some.

00:34:57.000 It's not the majority.

00:34:58.000 It's not a third.

00:35:00.000 It's less than that.

00:35:02.000 So like Josh Hawley.

00:35:04.000 I think Josh Hawley seems like a total, I don't know anything about his personal personal life.

00:35:08.000 I sure liked him.

00:35:08.000 I sure like him.

00:35:09.000 I can think of a couple of people who I think like are close to their spouses.

00:35:15.000 But like if you were to take a cross-section of people who install drywall, you know what I mean?

00:35:20.000 Most don't speak, even speak English, you know, but you just like went home with them.

00:35:23.000 Like, are their kids like to see them?

00:35:24.000 Are their ladies happy? 0.98

00:35:25.000 They're home.

00:35:26.000 Yeah, kind of actually.

00:35:27.000 You know, probably pretty cheerful families.

00:35:29.000 Maybe, you know, too much beer drinking or whatever, bad tattoos, but ultimately, pretty happy scene.

00:35:34.000 You know, I don't think you see that in the home of the average senator.

00:35:36.000 In fact, I know you don't.

00:35:38.000 And you see a lot of deception, a lot of weirdness, a lot of secret lives.

00:35:41.000 It's like, what is this?

00:35:42.000 Did all the weirdos go into politics?

00:35:44.000 And the answer is, yeah, they did.

00:35:45.000 They were gravitated towards it.

00:35:46.000 Yeah, they gravitated towards it.

00:35:48.000 And journalism too.

00:35:49.000 Talk about that.

00:35:50.000 When I was a kid, my dad, you know, was a journalist and hadn't graduated high school, joined the Marine Corps.

00:35:56.000 I didn't grow up in poverty or anything, but he didn't graduate high school and he joined the Marine Corps.

00:36:02.000 So like that, that's where he was from in New England.

00:36:05.000 But he was very smart and read a book a day.

00:36:07.000 And it was just, you know, he was a native intellectual and he wound up thriving in journalism.

00:36:12.000 And there were a lot of people like that.

00:36:13.000 You know, guys got out of the military and they were smart, but they didn't know what to do.

00:36:16.000 And they're like, oh, it'd be kind of interesting to cover murders.

00:36:18.000 Like, that's what my dad did.

00:36:20.000 And so you had a lot of sort of, it was, it was a great cross-section of America.

00:36:25.000 He had some rich kids, like Otis Chandler's kid worked at the LA Times or whatever with my dad.

00:36:29.000 But then my dad was there.

00:36:31.000 And now, but the idea of it, the idea of it, the whole purpose of it wasn't to exert influence over American society and like get this person elected, crush that person.

00:36:43.000 I do think Watergate and anyone, I came, of course, after Watergate, 20 years after Watergate, but I know a lot of guys who covered Watergate and they all say everything changed because that's when the Washington Post figured out it could take down a president without relitigating Watergate and whether Nixon should have been destroyed by it.

00:37:00.000 That's what happened.

00:37:00.000 The Washington Post unseated the sitting president who had just won a year before in the biggest landslide in American history in 1972.

00:37:08.000 Only lost one state.

00:37:09.000 Yeah.

00:37:09.000 And they took him out.

00:37:11.000 So whether he deserved it or not, I mean, again, that's a separate conversation, but that's pretty heady. 1.00

00:37:15.000 So one day you're just like some douchey metro reporter called Carl Bernstein, who really is like an idiot. 1.00

00:37:23.000 It's super like uninteresting. 1.00

00:37:24.000 Well, he's an idiot. 1.00

00:37:26.000 Woodward's not an idiot, I would say. 1.00

00:37:27.000 It's a whole separate thing there, but Woodward's not dumb. 1.00

00:37:29.000 But Carl Bernstein's like dumb. 0.98

00:37:32.000 I worked for him briefly. 0.99

00:37:34.000 I can vouch for that.

00:37:36.000 And he's a metro reporter, like covering Maryland politics, I think, on the metro deck.

00:37:41.000 Like lost dogs.

00:37:42.000 Yeah, you know, city council meetings in Silver Spring.

00:37:45.000 Yeah.

00:37:46.000 And the next thing you know, like Carl Bernstein is being portrayed by some famous actor, Dustin Hoffman, and he's like taking down the president.

00:37:53.000 He's marrying Nora Efren.

00:37:54.000 And you're like, wow.

00:37:56.000 That's kind of, you know, you want to exert some power over American society, become a newspaper reporter.

00:38:00.000 Well, that totally changed the profile of newspaper reporters like forever.

00:38:03.000 So instead of going to go become a general, they became bureaucrats of the world.

00:38:07.000 100%.

00:38:08.000 Or, you know, worming your way through, I mean, during the New Deal, all these ambitious, in some cases, really bad people wound up in the, in the Roosevelt administration because it was huge.

00:38:17.000 It was growing.

00:38:18.000 And if you were a smart, you know, it was the Depression, you're a smart, ambitious person.

00:38:22.000 Maybe that's a place that you can get your vision of America enacted.

00:38:26.000 And a lot of people with very similar attitudes wound up in journalism after Watergate.

00:38:30.000 And all of a sudden you wake up one morning.

00:38:32.000 I get in in 91, August of 91, and have never left.

00:38:36.000 But during that time, just those 30 years, the composition of the business has changed completely.

00:38:42.000 Like there's no one who's not like that.

00:38:43.000 They're all from the same, all from the same world.

00:38:46.000 Now, I am also from that world, just to be blunt about it.

00:38:50.000 You know, I am.

00:38:50.000 I am also from that world.

00:38:52.000 I mean, I went to private school and all that.

00:38:55.000 So it's not like I like stood out or something, but my attitudes were always very different.

00:38:59.000 Like I'm not, if I wanted to be a politician, I guess I probably could because I live in Washington.

00:39:04.000 I could work my way up to the Treasury Department or something like that and become undersecretary of whatever.

00:39:09.000 That was my goal, but I don't want that.

00:39:11.000 You know, I want an interesting life.

00:39:12.000 That's why I went into it.

00:39:13.000 But these people went into it because they wanted to exert power.

00:39:19.000 That's a theological problem.

00:39:20.000 Well, it's scary.

00:39:21.000 It's scary.

00:39:22.000 I mean, it's totally scary.

00:39:23.000 And that's what the media have this disproportionate power, which I guess redounds to my benefits since I'm in it, but I still don't like it.

00:39:30.000 In a democracy, you know, you shouldn't have elections determined by what the New York Times thinks.

00:39:34.000 Like, how is that Democrat?

00:39:36.000 Small D Democratic.

00:39:37.000 It's not.

00:39:38.000 Like the election should be determined by the votes.

00:39:41.000 And the point of the media during an election is to put, I mean, people have their views, their biases.

00:39:46.000 It's fine.

00:39:46.000 I get it.

00:39:47.000 You have an op-ed page, but it's to get as much information in the hands of voters as possible in the belief that it's their country and they have a right to pick their leaders.

00:39:56.000 So you just inform them and then they'll decide.

00:39:58.000 You shouldn't be withholding information from people or beating them over the head or calling them names if they don't like your candidate.

00:40:03.000 Like, what is this?

00:40:04.000 Like, what is this?

00:40:06.000 And I guess the one advantage of being, you know, older than 30 is I remember when it wasn't like that, when the media were very liberal and they hated George H.W. Bush and whatever, who cares?

00:40:17.000 But they weren't like putting the thumb on the scale and preventing the release of documents that might hurt their candidate.

00:40:24.000 Like, that's just crazy that that were leaking privileged documents from Project Veritas they got from it's beyond belief.

00:40:31.000 And then it just kind of just kind of happens.

00:40:34.000 And whatever.

00:40:35.000 I mean, I could go on for hours.

00:40:36.000 Last thing I'll say: if you're in journalism and you find yourself sucking up to the people in power to the detriment of the people without power, you have lost the thread.

00:40:45.000 You've inverted your duty.

00:40:46.000 You should be on the side of people who have no voice. 1.00

00:40:49.000 That's the whole point of the business is to be the stand-in for the public and to say, hey, you know, answer the freaking question, pal. 0.94

00:40:57.000 Like we elected you to do this. 0.87

00:40:59.000 Like, what?

00:41:00.000 You don't get to either, you know what I mean?

00:41:01.000 Like, how dare you?

00:41:03.000 I'm here on behalf of voters.

00:41:06.000 So answer the question.

00:41:07.000 Like, that's the posture.

00:41:08.000 It's missing on both sides.

00:41:10.000 What?

00:41:11.000 It's totally missing.

00:41:13.000 It's totally missing.

00:41:14.000 And I thought that this morning when I was on the plane, I, a buddy of mine, who you know texted me this thing about Brett Kavnaugh and Amy Coney Barrett.

00:41:24.000 And I was like, could it really be that they're that bad?

00:41:29.000 You know, maybe we should have dug in a little deeper.

00:41:31.000 I probably should have.

00:41:32.000 I was so taken by Amy Coney Barrett's, I'll admit it, you know, style and life story.

00:41:37.000 And she seemed like such a decent person and all those kids.

00:41:39.000 And I'm a sucker for that.

00:41:40.000 And, but maybe we should have taken one more time to find out what she believes. 0.82

00:41:43.000 Because if she's for vax mandates, like, how the hell did she wind up at the Supreme Court with massive conservative support? 0.52

00:41:48.000 That's grotesque.

00:41:50.000 She's shameful that she would be for that.

00:41:50.000 That's grotesque.

00:41:52.000 Like, how did that happen?

00:41:54.000 So if that turns out to be true, and Brett Kavanaugh, I'll be totally honest.

00:41:59.000 I thought I got completely shafted.

00:42:01.000 I never liked the guy.

00:42:01.000 It's something about him I didn't like.

00:42:02.000 I was like, I would not be friends with that guy.

00:42:04.000 Whatever.

00:42:05.000 It doesn't matter.

00:42:06.000 He was unfairly treated.

00:42:07.000 I defended him.

00:42:08.000 Amy Coney Barrett, I was like, I like her.

00:42:11.000 But if both of them turn out to be for vax mandates, then I think conservative media, including me, very much including me, need to ask, like, were we as aggressive as we should have been on behalf of our viewers when we vetted these people?

00:42:26.000 Or do we make it all about how the left is crazy? 0.64

00:42:29.000 Well, of course, the left's crazy. 1.00

00:42:30.000 They're dangerous. 1.00

00:42:31.000 They're literally dangerous.

00:42:32.000 I'd leave my house.

00:42:33.000 Trust me, they're dangerous.

00:42:34.000 I get my fair share of death threats.

00:42:35.000 I know you do.

00:42:36.000 I just walked in your building and they're like, the police are here at Charlie's place.

00:42:40.000 I get it.

00:42:41.000 So that's true.

00:42:42.000 And everybody knows it, but that's not the whole story.

00:42:45.000 Just because the left is dangerous and insane, comma, which they are, comma, doesn't mean that we don't have an obligation to ask, like, okay, so Amy Coney Barrett has all these kids.

00:42:54.000 She seems like a sterling person.

00:42:55.000 Doubtless she is.

00:42:56.000 She's a Christian.

00:42:57.000 That's important to me.

00:42:58.000 But like, if there's a vax mandate, how will she rule on that?

00:43:02.000 Maybe I should have asked that question.

00:43:04.000 Probably should have.

00:43:04.000 And she was confirmed during the virus.

00:43:07.000 Is that true?

00:43:08.000 Well, think about it.

00:43:08.000 It was 2020.

00:43:09.000 Ruth Beter Ginsburg passed away on September 30th or so, 2020.

00:43:13.000 So it would have been an appropriate question, right?

00:43:16.000 Yeah.

00:43:16.000 We're Kavanaugh, who wouldn't even thought about it.

00:43:18.000 Daily share just rattle your brain.

00:43:19.000 Like, I don't, I, my wife told me it's going to be 2022.

00:43:24.000 So I'm just so cut off.

00:43:25.000 Not 1984.

00:43:26.000 Yeah.

00:43:26.000 To me, it's Saturday.

00:43:27.000 That's that's as far ahead as I can go.

00:43:29.000 So two more topics I'm going to go through, if that's okay.

00:43:34.000 Get me.

00:43:36.000 Russia.

00:43:37.000 Russia.

00:43:40.000 Look, I'm going to need to check with my handovers of the crime lineman before we continue this conversation. 1.00

00:43:47.000 It's all so stupid. 0.99

00:43:48.000 I mean, I moved to Washington at 15 to Georgetown. 1.00

00:43:52.000 My dad worked for the government.

00:43:53.000 He left journalism, went to work for the government, prosecuting the Cold War.

00:43:57.000 So, you know, I studied Soviet history.

00:44:00.000 I literally, what day is it, Saturday?

00:44:02.000 Thursday, finished another book.

00:44:04.000 on the Bolshevik Revolution.

00:44:05.000 I'm really interested in the subject.

00:44:07.000 Oh, I love it.

00:44:08.000 It's really interesting.

00:44:10.000 The lead up to it.

00:44:11.000 Oh, yeah.

00:44:11.000 Lenin being released from prison.

00:44:13.000 40 years.

00:44:14.000 Since the Soviets invaded Afghanistan in 1979, which was like a big deal in my house, I've been interested in the Soviet Union and I still am.

00:44:21.000 I'll be Kulak soon.

00:44:23.000 Exactly.

00:44:23.000 So, but it's not like, you know, the right was soft on the Russians.

00:44:29.000 I'll remind you that it was the U.S. government under Franklin Roosevelt that armed Joseph Stalin in 1941 under Lendlease.

00:44:35.000 We literally armed the Soviet army, okay?

00:44:38.000 Against the National Socialist Workers.

00:44:40.000 Yeah, against the Nazis. 0.99

00:44:41.000 Nazis are bad. 0.95

00:44:42.000 I'm not.

00:44:42.000 No, no, no, for sure.

00:44:44.000 But it's like, wait, we armed.

00:44:45.000 Okay.

00:44:46.000 You can be against the Nazis, and I'm glad that we were, without arming Joseph Stalin and then kind of conveniently forgetting about it. 0.89

00:44:54.000 So if you're the party that armed Joseph Stalin in 1941, so 1941 was three years after the last of the big show trials.

00:45:02.000 He killed like 90% of the Soviet office corps.

00:45:05.000 General Tukhachevsky.

00:45:07.000 Completely.

00:45:08.000 Yeah.

00:45:09.000 Every Zanoviev, Kamenev, like, you know, all the old Bolsheviks. 0.97

00:45:13.000 This was all going on in public as covered by Walter Dravanti of the New York Times on a public surprise for it.

00:45:18.000 The Ukraine famine, all this stuff.

00:45:20.000 This was all general.

00:45:20.000 This was known.

00:45:21.000 This was publicly known.

00:45:22.000 A lot of people wrote about it, including Orwell, but also American Steinbeck.

00:45:27.000 If at that point you decided, you know, I'm an idea.

00:45:29.000 Let's arm Joseph Stalin with tanks and airplanes and not in a small way, in a huge way, okay? 0.73

00:45:36.000 Then at some point, shouldn't you apologize for that?

00:45:38.000 What month was that in 41?

00:45:40.000 I'm asking.

00:45:41.000 It was early 41st.

00:45:42.000 That was before we got in.

00:45:43.000 I was saying before we entered.

00:45:44.000 Oh, absolutely.

00:45:45.000 It was the end of our neutrality.

00:45:46.000 And by the way, I'm not arguing against war in Europe.

00:45:50.000 I'm certainly not arguing for the Nazis. 0.96

00:45:52.000 My God, of course not.

00:45:53.000 What I'm arguing against is arming Joseph Stalin.

00:45:56.000 Okay.

00:45:57.000 So like, that's insane that we did that.

00:46:00.000 Most people have no idea that we did that.

00:46:03.000 If there's a great justification for it, let me know what that might be.

00:46:07.000 It is a total atrocity.

00:46:09.000 And so it's just so funny for that political party to be like, oh, yeah, we're against Russia.

00:46:12.000 What?

00:46:13.000 Okay, just be quiet.

00:46:14.000 It's not about, yeah, okay.

00:46:16.000 Everyone's complicated feelings about Russia, very much including me.

00:46:19.000 I'm hardly pro-Russia.

00:46:20.000 I've never even been to Russia.

00:46:23.000 What I'm for is America.

00:46:25.000 And the question that we have to ask first, second, and third before any foreign policy question is resolved is, how does this benefit our core national interest?

00:46:33.000 That's all I'm saying.

00:46:35.000 So is defending the border between Eastern Ukraine and Russia an essential American interest valuable, essential enough that, say, we might sacrifice American lives, including my 24-year-old son.

00:46:47.000 And the answer, of course, is what?

00:46:49.000 Stop smoking weed, dude.

00:46:50.000 No, that's crazy.

00:46:51.000 I don't care how many lobbying dollars Ukraine is throwing into Washington.

00:46:55.000 That's insane. 1.00

00:46:56.000 And anyone who suggested, including all these dumb Republicans, like that moron from Mississippi, whose name I can- Roger Wicker. 1.00

00:47:03.000 God, that guy's dumb. 1.00

00:47:03.000 Roger Wicker. 1.00

00:47:05.000 Or just re-emphasize what he said.

00:47:07.000 He said, we have to use, we might have to get to a place.

00:47:10.000 Nuclear weapons?

00:47:11.000 Against Russia. 0.57

00:47:12.000 We're going to get 2 million foreign nationals over our southern border this year.

00:47:17.000 And no one cares.

00:47:18.000 Roger Wicker doesn't seem to care.

00:47:19.000 2 million.

00:47:20.000 So that's a full blown infant.

00:47:21.000 2 million?

00:47:22.000 I mean, that's multiple.

00:47:23.000 That's Denver plus Boston plus Chattanooga.

00:47:26.000 Plus two Montanas.

00:47:28.000 Thank you.

00:47:29.000 It's a math guy.

00:47:30.000 Rescuing me.

00:47:31.000 You're totally right.

00:47:32.000 It's two Montanas.

00:47:33.000 It's two mains, main and a half.

00:47:35.000 Yeah, so here's the point: you're telling me at exactly the moment that's going on.

00:47:41.000 It's not an overstatement, it's not some right-wing Fox News talking point to say we don't have a southern border.

00:47:45.000 We don't, we literally demonstrably don't.

00:47:47.000 You're telling me that Ukraine's eastern border with Russia, without even getting into the history of it and like how many Russians there, I don't even care. 0.99

00:47:54.000 Kind of how Ukraine's like kind of a made-up country, but whatever. 0.95

00:47:57.000 Whatever.

00:47:58.000 I mean, you know, I want everyone to live in harmony.

00:48:00.000 I'm totally opposed to wars.

00:48:01.000 I've seen two of them.

00:48:02.000 I'm against them.

00:48:03.000 I'm not even going to get into that and take Russia's side.

00:48:06.000 I'm taking America's side. 0.83

00:48:07.000 How is that more important than our own border?

00:48:10.000 And if you're suggesting that it is, you know, talking to you now, Congress senator from Iowa, Joni Ernst.

00:48:20.000 Oh, what a nice person.

00:48:21.000 I mean, I think Joni Ernst is so nice.

00:48:22.000 Every time we see Johnny Ernst, I'm like, Johnny Ernst, how you know, Senator, great to see you.

00:48:25.000 I watched Joni Ernst.

00:48:27.000 She has no idea.

00:48:28.000 She can find Ukraine on a map and she's like, oh, really, it's the most important thing.

00:48:32.000 And I'm like, I just felt so sorry for her because she is such a nice person.

00:48:35.000 I think she's pretty conservative in ways that I am, that I like, but she's living in a world where these people talk to each other all the time and they're like, no, really, the border of Eastern border, Ukraine, Roger Wicker, who was like nothing else going on in his life.

00:48:47.000 You know, he gets to pretend he's an expert on Ukraine.

00:48:49.000 Oh, do you speak Ukrainian now, Roger Wicker?

00:48:51.000 You big, you big Russia file.

00:48:52.000 You know a lot about Russia.

00:48:53.000 Do you really tell me? 1.00

00:48:55.000 These are idiots, but they talk to each other. 1.00

00:48:57.000 They think they have secret esoteric knowledge from their dumb briefings in the Senate committee and they convince themselves that they know much more than you do. 1.00

00:49:05.000 And the next thing you know, poor, you know, Joni Ernst, who again is just such a nice person, comes out of the meeting and she's like, well, yeah, actually, no, no, no.

00:49:11.000 And she's repeating what she just heard.

00:49:13.000 And it's also humiliating, but it's also totally disconnected from the actual concerns of Americans.

00:49:18.000 So you have to wonder, like, how long does this continue exactly?

00:49:22.000 I mean, I think for quite a while.

00:49:23.000 Don't ask me more questions, man.

00:49:24.000 I just can't, I can't decelerate.

00:49:28.000 I'll just ask one more question about the Russia thing.

00:49:33.000 Is it just Soviet muscle memory?

00:49:35.000 Is that what it is?

00:49:35.000 I think it's like some of these guys got so hung up.

00:49:38.000 You know, there's a whole infrastructure that is being supported.

00:49:42.000 And I didn't want to get into that.

00:49:43.000 Brookings and all of that.

00:49:44.000 I mean, what's NATO?

00:49:44.000 No.

00:49:46.000 North Atlantic Treaty Organization.

00:49:48.000 It was 46 or 49 after the war.

00:49:52.000 Yeah, it was post-war, but I think it was, I think it was 49, but whatever.

00:49:55.000 My memory's slipping.

00:49:57.000 Oh, age.

00:49:58.000 But of course, it was created.

00:49:59.000 It was an alliance between the ally Western Europe to keep the Soviets from invading Western Europe, which was an actual concern.

00:50:05.000 That's why we kept our troops in Germany and England at Great Britain now.

00:50:10.000 And we were worried about that for 40 years, you know, from 1945 until really 1991, when it August, when it really all like fully collapsed.

00:50:20.000 And so that was worth having.

00:50:21.000 I think NATO did a completely solid job.

00:50:23.000 They were one of our main instruments in the Cold War, which we won.

00:50:26.000 Great.

00:50:27.000 But rather than acknowledging victory and redeploying to like the next new thing, because there is always a next new thing, turned out to be China.

00:50:36.000 I don't know if that was obvious in 91, but it certainly shortly thereafter became obvious.

00:50:41.000 We never did.

00:50:42.000 And we didn't because like NATO junkets and NATO positions are an ambassador to NATO.

00:50:48.000 You expanded NATO 100%.

00:50:50.000 Well, that's the other thing.

00:50:51.000 And organizations after a certain point of scale exist to perpetuate themselves.

00:50:57.000 And they kind of act like organisms in the natural world.

00:51:00.000 You know, they repel invasion, they protect their borders.

00:51:03.000 You know, the amoeba kind of scoots along looking for sustenance.

00:51:07.000 And that's just the nature of organizations, nature of human organizations.

00:51:10.000 And God, you see it in Washington and you certainly see it in NATO and all these other post-war institutions that are not serving really any purpose.

00:51:16.000 What's the purpose of NATO?

00:51:18.000 To sustain itself.

00:51:21.000 You know, you could have done this interview in half the time.

00:51:24.000 Thank you.

00:51:25.000 Because you sum things up much more crisply than I'm capable of, but to sustain itself.

00:51:29.000 Thank you.

00:51:29.000 So the last thing, because I don't want to work you too hard before you have to speak to our students.

00:51:33.000 Christianity on your life, impact you had in your life.

00:51:37.000 We have a lot of listeners of faith, a lot of pastors we deal with.

00:51:40.000 People ask me all the time, what's Tucker's faith?

00:51:42.000 You know, just as shortly as you want or as long as you want.

00:51:45.000 I would say my faith, my faith is, if I had to sum it up, profound but peasant-like. 0.96

00:51:52.000 So I grew up in a very specific faith tradition, which, you know, was impressive in my view for, you know, the faith of my ancestors for a long time and then very rapidly became a hollowed out, a husk, and then a parody of itself.

00:52:09.000 The Episcopal Church in the United States, the builders of the National Cathedral in Washington.

00:52:13.000 A lot of founders were Anglican.

00:52:14.000 Oh, of course.

00:52:16.000 Of George Washington being one of them.

00:52:18.000 Thank you.

00:52:18.000 Yeah, it's the Church of England in the United States.

00:52:20.000 So, but I grew up in it.

00:52:23.000 And, you know, one of the rules in the Episcopal Church is you're not allowed to talk about it.

00:52:27.000 It's kind of the mafia.

00:52:28.000 You can't talk.

00:52:28.000 You know, you go to church, but you can't talk about what you think.

00:52:31.000 So, but one of the, and then there's always drama in the church.

00:52:33.000 So like the church completely collapsed while I was a member of it and became this kind of repellent, you know, actively anti-Christian organization.

00:52:43.000 And I mean, I watched it happen.

00:52:44.000 I was there.

00:52:45.000 And I had relatives in it and everything.

00:52:47.000 So as a result, maybe of that, I mean, since you asked about my own personal faith, I really became kind of anti-theology.

00:52:54.000 Like Episcopalians by their nature spend a lot of time arguing about theology.

00:52:57.000 What do you mean by that?

00:52:58.000 Look, it's, I think there are people who are naturally suited for theological debates.

00:53:04.000 I think they're objectively important.

00:53:05.000 I'm glad that there are people who are thinking about and debating, you know, what the theology is.

00:53:12.000 I mean that in a, you know, the reason of God is what theology is.

00:53:15.000 Yeah, transubstantiation.

00:53:16.000 Like people mock that debate, but when it took place, it was, it was absolutely real debate.

00:53:20.000 Yes, of course.

00:53:21.000 People died over the debate.

00:53:22.000 So, um, and I don't begrudge them their passions on that.

00:53:26.000 I'm not suited for that.

00:53:27.000 I am.

00:53:28.000 I'm right there with you, by the way.

00:53:29.000 I get kind of bored by all that back.

00:53:30.000 Yeah.

00:53:30.000 So I just asked about the big thing.

00:53:32.000 I'm a simple man.

00:53:33.000 I pray in my sauna every day, go through all my kids.

00:53:37.000 I go through all my dogs, Meg and Dave, Brookie and Alice, and, you know, all my relatives and people I love.

00:53:45.000 And my prayers are very simple, but I think they work, actually.

00:53:51.000 I'm married to a woman who's much more systematic about it.

00:53:54.000 And, you know, if I go through periods in my life that were rocky, you know, I am totally convinced that that made the difference.

00:54:03.000 Her, you know, writing in her nooseleaf prayer journal every night, and which, you know, 30 years ago when I first married, I was like, really?

00:54:11.000 It's like, can you turn a light out?

00:54:13.000 Now I'm like, you know, have you written in your prayers?

00:54:16.000 Yeah.

00:54:16.000 We have so many people in our orbit, in our personal family orbit who we love, and life is so precarious.

00:54:24.000 And as you get older, you really understand how precarious it is when like, you know, people get weird diseases at early ages or die of this, that, or the other thing.

00:54:32.000 The chaos of life.

00:54:33.000 You really do see it.

00:54:34.000 You really see it in a way that you don't see it when you're 22.

00:54:36.000 I didn't anyway.

00:54:38.000 And so as I get older, you know, I think my faith is greatly deepened.

00:54:43.000 The last thing I'll say is there's clearly something supernatural going on here.

00:54:47.000 Of course there is.

00:54:48.000 I'm the last person to as an Anglican Tucker.

00:54:50.000 I'm like, Episcopalian.

00:54:53.000 I'm the last person to explain what it is.

00:54:54.000 Is there a spiritual war going on, Tucker?

00:54:56.000 Well, let me put it this way.

00:54:57.000 So I'm kind of, you know, I'm an inductive reasoner.

00:54:59.000 So like, just look around and you're like, okay, these are the things that we notice.

00:55:04.000 And then let's work back from that to why they might be happening.

00:55:08.000 And I've had no problem doing that for like 25 years, 28 years.

00:55:12.000 That's why you were a crime reporter.

00:55:14.000 100%.

00:55:15.000 It's like a super fun job.

00:55:16.000 It's like you start with the body.

00:55:18.000 I can picture a body now.

00:55:19.000 Why she got in the car?

00:55:20.000 That's why there's the 100%. 0.93

00:55:21.000 This guy actually stole a TV, was killed naked.

00:55:24.000 Quite a crime scene, I will say.

00:55:26.000 But anyway, so my job is to figure out like, how do we get to the naked dead guy and the blood on the walls?

00:55:31.000 Like, what happened?

00:55:32.000 And it was, and it's sad, of course, we acknowledge that, but also interesting.

00:55:34.000 Super interesting.

00:55:36.000 Using that very basic way of understanding the world has stopped working in the last two years because you're seeing people do things that are not only counterproductive to the interests of the society, they're counterproductive to their own interests.

00:55:49.000 Diabolical.

00:55:50.000 Well, so you can't say like, oh, people are doing this because I hear people say, like, this vaccine stuff is evil.

00:55:57.000 I believe that.

00:55:58.000 But I hope you say, well, it's because the Pfizer stock price.

00:56:01.000 Well, yeah, I mean, sure.

00:56:03.000 But that's not the whole answer.

00:56:04.000 It's not.

00:56:04.000 I'm sorry.

00:56:05.000 That's not why people are going on social media and being like, you must take the vax or we're going to kill you. 0.99

00:56:10.000 David Frum's like, anyone who doesn't get the vacc should be killed, basically. 0.99

00:56:13.000 They should be triaged. 0.99

00:56:14.000 Quietly triage.

00:56:15.000 That was the worst part of it.

00:56:17.000 The quiet part of it.

00:56:18.000 So you have to, I hear David Frum phrase.

00:56:19.000 Because you wanted to do it in the shadows.

00:56:20.000 Anyway, I'm sorry.

00:56:21.000 David Frum's a lot smarter than I. He's a warmonger.

00:56:25.000 But I'm just saying as a person, David Frum has an IQ much higher than mine.

00:56:25.000 For sure.

00:56:30.000 I mean, I worked with David Frum, you know, for a number of years.

00:56:33.000 Like I've sat in a drill meeting with David From every week.

00:56:35.000 David Frum is really smart.

00:56:37.000 No joke.

00:56:38.000 I mean, I'm not a fan, but he is really smart.

00:56:39.000 So you have to ask yourself, why would David Frum be calling for, quote, quietly triaging American citizens with the facts?

00:56:45.000 Like, that doesn't even make sense.

00:56:47.000 That's so dark.

00:56:48.000 There's no justification for that.

00:56:50.000 It's coming from a man who absolutely, absolutely has the capacity to know better than that.

00:56:55.000 He's not a Philistine at all. 0.98

00:56:56.000 He's a cultured person.

00:56:58.000 Why is he saying that?

00:57:00.000 And below David Frum, who's at the very top of the, in my opinion, the high, the IQ pyramid, he's, I can't understand.

00:57:06.000 The guy's really smart, in my opinion. 0.98

00:57:09.000 You go down like that, where you get to like the middlebrow people and then the dumb people. 1.00

00:57:12.000 And they're just like, let's just murder them. 1.00

00:57:14.000 And you have to ask, like, why are people saying that? 0.97

00:57:18.000 Are they getting something out of it?

00:57:19.000 No, they're not getting anything out of it.

00:57:21.000 Does society benefit?

00:57:22.000 Does it make sense?

00:57:22.000 No.

00:57:23.000 No.

00:57:24.000 So there's no actual motive for this.

00:57:26.000 And I could name many other examples.

00:57:28.000 Defon the police.

00:57:29.000 How's that going to work, Dumbo?

00:57:30.000 Yes.

00:57:31.000 It's only a gender transition for nine-year-olds.

00:57:33.000 Thank you.

00:57:33.000 So it's only going to destroy.

00:57:35.000 And so if you see this force at work from which no one is benefiting, really, whose only purpose is destruction, maybe you're not looking at a human force.

00:57:43.000 Maybe you're looking at something that's like can't be explained with reason or conventional motives of the kind I'm used to assassinating in Washington.

00:57:49.000 Oh, he's getting paid by the lobbyist.

00:57:51.000 That's why he's doing that.

00:57:51.000 That's not what's going on here.

00:57:53.000 There's something much deeper going on here.

00:57:55.000 And I have no idea what it is because, again, I'm an Episcopalian, but I will say.

00:58:00.000 You're getting in the evangelical world here, Tucker.

00:58:02.000 You're really?

00:58:02.000 You're getting no idea how far that is from where I'm from.

00:58:05.000 But yes, true.

00:58:07.000 You're coming into our orbit here.

00:58:10.000 I hope you.

00:58:11.000 I'm going to have to give up the nicotine before you let me come in.

00:58:13.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:58:14.000 But drug tests do every week.

00:58:16.000 You better believe it.

00:58:17.000 In fact, I'm going to have one.

00:58:18.000 Just think about it.

00:58:21.000 I'm just making this.

00:58:22.000 This is there's a spiritual dimension to this.

00:58:25.000 Of course there is.

00:58:26.000 Of course there is.

00:58:27.000 You don't have to even be a Christian to recognize. 0.93

00:58:29.000 I am one, but like you don't have to be.

00:58:31.000 So that's where I am.

00:58:33.000 Tucker, this is great.

00:58:35.000 Thanks so much.

00:58:35.000 Thank you, Charlie.

00:58:36.000 You bet.

00:58:39.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:58:41.000 Email us your thoughts as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:58:44.000 And if you want to support our show, it's charliekirk.com slash support.

00:58:47.000 Thanks so much, everybody.

00:58:48.000 God bless.

00:58:48.000 Talk to you soon.

00:58:51.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk. com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - December 23, 2021

My Conversation with Tucker Carlson on Addiction, Russia, and Religion

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