The Charlie Kirk Show - Naturally Good or Naturally Evil?: A Conversation with Danica Patrick

00:00:00.000 Hey everybody, happy Sunday.

00:00:01.000 A wonderful conversation I have with Danica Patrick.

00:00:04.000 We talk about faith, conservatism, and why people want Trump in jail.

00:00:08.000 And if you want to listen to the entire podcast, go to her show, which is the Danica Podcast Pretty Intense Podcast.

00:00:14.000 Danica Patrick Pretty Intense Podcast.

00:00:16.000 So check it out, Danica Patrick Pretty Intense Podcast.

00:00:20.000 Have a wonderful Sunday, everybody.

00:00:21.000 Enjoy this podcast.

00:00:22.000 Email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com and get involved with TurningPointUSA at tp at usa.com.

00:00:28.000 That is tp at usa.com.

00:00:30.000 Buckle up, everybody.

00:00:31.000 Here we go.

00:00:32.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:33.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campuses.

00:00:35.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

00:00:39.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:00:42.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:00:43.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:00:44.000 His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created.

00:00:51.000 Turning point USA. 0.65

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00:02:50.000 We should win, but there's no guarantee in the short term we will.

00:02:54.000 And the 20th century is the example. 0.61

00:02:56.000 I don't know.

00:02:57.000 I think it is.

00:02:58.000 I mean, yeah, okay.

00:02:59.000 There's no guarantee.

00:03:00.000 I have a very low view of human nature.

00:03:02.000 I do.

00:03:04.000 Where's the pessimistic in you?

00:03:05.000 Where does this come from?

00:03:06.000 It's not, well, partially my religious views.

00:03:11.000 Secondly, I live to be disappointed because I think that human beings are rather primal at our core.

00:03:19.000 I do.

00:03:19.000 I don't think we're naturally good.

00:03:21.000 That's my.

00:03:22.000 God, I actually think the opposite.

00:03:24.000 I actually think that, you know, you were saying earlier about, you know, I'm going to use my words, like through our certain lens, we can justify any certain behavior and could say that it's okay or it's just how I am, or I believe in the good in this.

00:03:40.000 It's like, I actually believe that everyone does see life through their own lens and that everyone is unique and that probably even to some, even to the extent that someone, say someone murders someone, right?

00:03:55.000 They come up to the window, they like, they get scared, they shoot them, right?

00:03:59.000 That person may be scarred from something they experienced young in their life or something they've seen where they go into an emergency sort of trigger response, or they are like, I have to protect my child, this is what I do.

00:04:13.000 Something in them told them that that was a better option than the alternative.

00:04:18.000 I actually think that inherently everyone is good, but conditioned through their environment.

00:04:25.000 And I love psychology, so I don't know.

00:04:27.000 So, why do we have to teach kids goodness?

00:04:29.000 Do you?

00:04:30.000 Yes.

00:04:31.000 I have a daughter.

00:04:33.000 Is she inherently? 1.00

00:04:34.000 Manipulating, lying.

00:04:36.000 You don't think that she gets any of that from the proxy?

00:04:39.000 How did I teach her?

00:04:41.000 They say that the subconscious, which operates 95% of our life, the program that is run, starts to be established in the last trimester in the womb up until about six or seven years old, is when your subconscious is programmed.

00:04:58.000 So who's to say that she didn't hear, see, feel, get something programmed within her that happened at any one of those points that you think, well, she didn't hear that.

00:05:09.000 She didn't know that.

00:05:10.000 She could have literally been in the womb.

00:05:12.000 This is such like these are the things that we don't completely understand as human beings, like when this happens.

00:05:18.000 But the truth is, you do have to teach them good, but why?

00:05:22.000 Because we're not so good.

00:05:24.000 I think it's because we pick up things along the way and we don't know.

00:05:28.000 We just don't understand when that programming happens.

00:05:30.000 Yeah, I think humans are more of a blank slate tilting towards bad.

00:05:34.000 Again, my views of nature are rooted in scripture, but that outside, we look at, I'll give you an example, okay?

00:05:46.000 Have you heard of Yan Me Park?

00:05:47.000 She's terrific.

00:05:48.000 She's up in North Carolina.

00:05:49.000 Yeah, yeah, she has an incredible story.

00:05:51.000 If human beings were naturally good, then her story would be tough to understand because she said they would just walk over bodies asking for money or food, and there's nothing inherent about them to save them.

00:06:06.000 And she never learned either way, just, oh, that's just, you know, that's just a clump of cells, basically.

00:06:12.000 In tribes of Africa, all the time they'll leave just babies by the fire if they're unwanted. 1.00

00:06:17.000 So what I'm getting at is values that we, it's values that we have to try to pass down.

00:06:22.000 I think Left Her Own Devices were, as Thomas Hobbes would say, nasty, brutish, and short to one another.

00:06:27.000 I think we're awful.

00:06:30.000 I don't think human beings are naturally.

00:06:32.000 Look at the 20th century.

00:06:34.000 It used to be much more brutal.

00:06:35.000 You know, 120 million people died under the guise of doing good.

00:06:41.000 You have more hope in humanity.

00:06:42.000 I don't.

00:06:44.000 You know, it's very interesting.

00:06:45.000 And again, I totally respect your views because it's rooted in optimism, which I love.

00:06:50.000 Somebody asked me the other day, they said, Charlie, how could you still believe in God after the Holocaust?

00:06:56.000 Sure.

00:06:57.000 And I said, well, I still believe in God.

00:06:59.000 I just don't believe in humanity.

00:07:00.000 Well, what is God?

00:07:01.000 Then this is an interesting way to get into the conversation about religion because I know it's very important.

00:07:05.000 It is, yeah, it is.

00:07:06.000 And it's a core tenets of your being and your moral compass and why you do what you do.

00:07:12.000 The big question that launched me into, just as my background goes, I really didn't go to church growing up.

00:07:19.000 At one point in time, became a Catholic, then went to Baptist church, then got much more into spirituality.

00:07:25.000 So I would call myself what would be, I don't even know if it's an actual term, but an omnism, which is the belief that no one religion is true, but there's truth in all of them.

00:07:38.000 I generally am very curious about the nature of God and what that is.

00:07:43.000 So that was the first question that really dove me into excavating more of the nature of reality and spirituality.

00:07:49.000 And so what is God?

00:07:51.000 That was the question that I was answering.

00:07:53.000 I believe in the God of the Christian Bible, or you could say the Old and New Testament, which is a God who is omniscient, omnipotent, all-knowing.

00:08:02.000 In the scriptures, there is a phrase, I am who I am.

00:08:06.000 So it transcends time, transcends being.

00:08:09.000 In Christianity, we believe God manifests in three separate ways, the Spirit, the Father, and the Son.

00:08:15.000 But God is love at its core.

00:08:18.000 And we see that.

00:08:19.000 I'm happy to explain if you'd like.

00:08:21.000 Keep going.

00:08:22.000 In the scriptures, we say that in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

00:08:27.000 So God predated creation.

00:08:28.000 Creation was an act of will by God.

00:08:31.000 He created what we know as the natural world.

00:08:33.000 He created all the physics, the DNA, and then, of course, he created humanity.

00:08:38.000 We see this play out where God has many, let's just say, attempts at trying to get humans to live morally, whether consciousness didn't work out very well, divine revealing teaching to Noah, to the Noah covenant, eventually to the transmission law, to Moses on Mount Sinai.

00:08:59.000 And essentially, the story of the Old Testament can be really summarized in lots of rebellion, lots of strife, lots of struggle, and kind of perpetual struggle, where the New Testament picks up and changes the whole ballgame, which makes Christianity different than any other world religion.

00:09:18.000 And again, I have total respect for all people's views, but I would say Christianity is different, and I believe it is true, is that Christianity argues that we do not ascend to God, but God descended to us, where God actually took human form.

00:09:33.000 Buddhism, for example, would never grasp this because they believe human beings to be so dirty, so separate from the divine, that the divine actually taking temporal earthly flesh would be a foreign concept to Buddhism.

00:09:47.000 So we believe that Jesus came on a rescue mission, if you will.

00:09:51.000 For God so loved the world that he sent his one and only begotten Son that whoever live in him shall not perish but have eternal life, as it says in John 3.16.

00:09:59.000 So love is a very important word.

00:10:02.000 We overuse it in the West.

00:10:05.000 There are four Greek words for love.

00:10:07.000 And so I want people to try to entertain this for a second.

00:10:10.000 There is storge, which is the love in Greek which would be between a parent and a child.

00:10:18.000 There is phileo, which is brotherly love.

00:10:21.000 So like between friends, like very close, Philadelphia, the city of brotherly love, phileo.

00:10:26.000 There is eros, we get the word erotica, where is a romantic love.

00:10:31.000 And then there is agape, which is a completely different term that we don't use in the West, and we should, or in English, which is sacrificial love.

00:10:39.000 So let me repeat that verse by using a different word, agape, which means I love you so much, I will stand in front of the train for you.

00:10:47.000 I will take a bullet for you. 0.99

00:10:49.000 I will die for you. 1.00

00:10:50.000 So imagine now for God so agape the world that he sent his one and only son.

00:10:56.000 So now all of a sudden we in English-speaking cultures can have a better understanding of the significance of that verse.

00:11:02.000 So we believe in the incarnation.

00:11:04.000 God took human form, which I understand is a faith statement.

00:11:08.000 Some people have trouble understanding it.

00:11:10.000 But he lived a perfect life to show us how to live, committed miracles, did an amazing ministry, died an unjust death, and then defeated the cross after three days, defeated the grave after three days so that we may have life.

00:11:24.000 Most things in life you earn, this is the one thing you don't earn that's given to you for free, is purchased at the cross. 0.71

00:11:30.000 And it's the ultimate sacrifice.

00:11:31.000 It goes back to normative Christian theology, which is that we are flawed, we are sinners, and that we are in need of a salvation and redemption.

00:11:40.000 I loved hearing all this.

00:11:41.000 So I can't, of hearing about love.

00:11:44.000 I've heard some of those.

00:11:45.000 I've heard of agape.

00:11:46.000 I've heard of Eros.

00:11:47.000 Really know what they, I like can't identify the exact definition, but that was cool to hear.

00:11:52.000 That I know that language is such an important thing too in general, and that there are other languages that do a better job of having far more variations of being able to get across the exact feeling that you're looking to because there's more words for it.

00:12:10.000 Trying to sort of like isolate more in on God, Jesus, love.

00:12:15.000 So I'll just say what I think it is because I'll see if it resonates.

00:12:20.000 I'm not offended at all.

00:12:21.000 Trust me.

00:12:21.000 You could be as blunt as you want.

00:12:23.000 Yeah, I know that about you.

00:12:24.000 I love that about you.

00:12:25.000 This is the way it's supposed to be to have a conversation.

00:12:28.000 I think of it in the framework of energy.

00:12:31.000 And so something that's omnipresent isn't energetic.

00:12:34.000 It's available at all times, all places, right?

00:12:38.000 And that love is a frequency as well.

00:12:40.000 So it's like an energetic frequency.

00:12:43.000 And that's why at certain times in your life, you're able to access that deep feeling, but it's only at an elevated state, right?

00:12:51.000 It's only when you get your frequency higher, your energy higher, you feel something far more positive.

00:12:58.000 You get into those elated, joyful states where you're overwhelmed by this feeling of could be called love.

00:13:04.000 And so I think of God as an energy, and that's why it's omnipresent.

00:13:09.000 And it can be within you as the body, around your Ka body, or even the ethereal, the energy, spirit, or beyond.

00:13:20.000 So I don't believe that, but that's very Eastern.

00:13:24.000 It's a way to bring it into like a tangible.

00:13:26.000 No, I hear you.

00:13:27.000 And I'm not by no means an expert.

00:13:31.000 What makes Christianity different is that in that same chapter of John 3, it says that you must be born new. 0.69

00:13:40.000 And so to use your description, the energy or the life force enters you when you are born again with Christ.

00:13:49.000 And Paul writes this extensively in the epistles, where when you are born again, you're a completely new person.

00:13:57.000 And so, yeah, I don't believe that.

00:13:59.000 Is he able to identify that being born as a baby or being born at any point?

00:14:04.000 It would be born again is the idea that you have one birth when you actually are born with your mother, and you're born again when you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior.

00:14:14.000 And so I haven't thought that deeply about the energy part of it, but I think in my view, God is bigger than just an energy force.

00:14:22.000 God is an intimate creator who loves us and knows us.

00:14:27.000 The scripture tells us that He knows how many hairs are in your head.

00:14:29.000 He knows the plans that He has before you.

00:14:32.000 I knitted you when you were in the womb.

00:14:34.000 But I'm sure energy is a component of God.

00:14:36.000 I haven't thought that deeply about that, though.

00:14:38.000 Well, this plays into a little bit of you thinking that inherently we're all bad and I think that we're all good, and that they actually, it might be not an or but an and.

00:14:47.000 And that another belief, if you're looking more from a spiritual energetic perspective, is that source being a singularity, a single point, God, whatever you want to call it, fraction, the Big Bang, broke apart in an effort to know itself.

00:15:07.000 That's Kabbalah teaching.

00:15:09.000 I'm familiar with it.

00:15:10.000 And that we essentially all are the one, but a part of the one expressing.

00:15:17.000 No, I don't believe that.

00:15:18.000 So and that we can't see ourselves in this individual way too.

00:15:23.000 If you were just one, you couldn't really identify what was going on because it's just you.

00:15:27.000 Same thing actually with our human experience.

00:15:30.000 Like, I actually see myself through you.

00:15:34.000 You're mirroring.

00:15:36.000 When I'm triggered, I know now something about myself.

00:15:39.000 When I get excited, I know something about myself.

00:15:43.000 This is all information about myself.

00:15:44.000 I can't actually see myself, but this is why as we get older and go through time, we start to recognize patterns and we start to recognize when we have reactions to things.

00:15:56.000 We don't when we're young because we're so in it, but then as soon as we sort of pull back and like get a little bit more perspective, a little bit more calm, a little bit more patterning, we can see it because we're seeing it as a reflection from someone else.

00:16:10.000 It's interesting.

00:16:11.000 I have to think about that.

00:16:12.000 Do you like psychology at all?

00:16:14.000 I do.

00:16:14.000 Yeah, I think most of it is bunk, but I do like, yeah.

00:16:17.000 I mean, I think there's a lot of just like treachery that's happened in modern psychology.

00:16:23.000 Well, it's fair because it's fair to say that because that, the reason why I feel like this conversation ended up going in this direction is because we're talking about colleges and you're talking about professors that get these different ideas that are, you know, they deconstruct.

00:16:38.000 And, you know, there's a lot about what I'm talking about that would sort of point in the direction of deconstruct down to.

00:16:46.000 Well, I mean, just not all ideas are made equal, right?

00:16:49.000 And so, like, child sacrifice is wrong, but the Aztecs would disagree.

00:16:53.000 So, I mean, at some point, you have to develop a hierarchy of morals and values.

00:16:53.000 Right.

00:16:58.000 And I would say about, you know, in Christianity, just to be clear, that we were made good, but in normative Christian theology, that there was a decision made in the garden to rebel.

00:17:11.000 And I'm sure you know this audience does.

00:17:14.000 And at that moment, there was a man's heart was wicked from the time he was born, as it says later in Genesis 6 or 7, which I do believe plays out.

00:17:23.000 I do believe that we're awfully treacherous.

00:17:25.000 Now, some people would take, hey, I think we have good in us.

00:17:29.000 I think that there are elements of goodness that can pop up.

00:17:33.000 I mean, as destructive as my daughter can be, she can be super sweet and angelic at times, right?

00:17:39.000 But we're talking about what is your fundamental nature, absent teaching of values, absent education.

00:17:48.000 I do believe it's, I would say, the word sinful from our birth.

00:17:53.000 Where do you think value-wise, we getting back to more of an overall country perspective and how this country should be run and how you believe it should be, I should say?

00:18:04.000 Like, where have we lost our way?

00:18:06.000 What are the values that have been lost that are leading us so astray?

00:18:10.000 This will sound like overly religious, but I think I would love anyone even not religious to tell me why this is a bad list, the Ten Commandments.

00:18:19.000 It's very simple.

00:18:21.000 And you shall have no other gods before me.

00:18:22.000 You might say, well, that doesn't apply to me.

00:18:24.000 Well, sort of, think about it.

00:18:26.000 Are there some things that should be left holy in your life?

00:18:29.000 Are there some things that should be prioritized?

00:18:32.000 You should not make any craven images.

00:18:33.000 You should honor your mother and father so you live long in the land of which you are in.

00:18:36.000 You shall not murder.

00:18:37.000 You shall not covet.

00:18:38.000 You shall not steal.

00:18:39.000 I think these are rather good pillars for a society.

00:18:42.000 You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor, which politicians do for a living.

00:18:46.000 And so we need rules for life.

00:18:48.000 Jordan Peterson has really ran with this idea and done it really well.

00:18:52.000 And we currently don't have an agreed upon central moral contract in the West.

00:18:57.000 It used to be the Ten Commandments.

00:18:58.000 If you walk into the halls of Congress, literally back in the 1800s, they built all of this.

00:19:02.000 Like Moses is in the Capitol Rotunda, where they do the votes.

00:19:07.000 Back 1800s, they built it there.

00:19:08.000 Moses of the Ten Commandments.

00:19:10.000 And because he was the administrative of the law, right?

00:19:13.000 He was the transmission, the law which was transmitted through Moses. 0.52

00:19:17.000 So I think it's a great list.

00:19:19.000 I think that it's also built the West.

00:19:20.000 So if you have a better list, I encourage people to send it to me.

00:19:23.000 So this beautiful civilization we have was really foundation.

00:19:27.000 The foundation was the Ten Commandments.

00:19:29.000 I agree that rules are necessary, and I'll give you my experience of it.

00:19:34.000 Have you heard of Burning Man?

00:19:36.000 Oh, yeah.

00:19:36.000 I have no plans to.

00:19:38.000 I can't imagine you'd want to go to that.

00:19:39.000 Yeah, that's the end.

00:19:40.000 Like, not my scene.

00:19:41.000 At all.

00:19:42.000 That's okay.

00:19:44.000 See, I don't care about people's private lives.

00:19:46.000 Exactly.

00:19:46.000 Right.

00:19:48.000 So I've gone the last couple of years, and what is crazy about it is you'd probably think to yourself, Burning Man, anything goes, that place has got to be wild, like no rules at all.

00:20:05.000 It's actually the rules that create the freedom.

00:20:08.000 It's this amazing dichotomy of a situation or paradoxical situation where there's these 10, I think there maybe is 11 now, but there's these basic 10 rules that you have to abide by.

00:20:21.000 One that always feels very current and like you have to think about all the time is let's say there's no littering and leave no trace is essentially what it's written as.

00:20:33.000 And it's crazy, there's nothing on the ground for them.

00:20:36.000 You don't find any, you're not even allowed to dump water on the ground.

00:20:39.000 Like unless it's, you can't do anything.

00:20:42.000 So you don't, there's no cups anywhere.

00:20:45.000 You have to bring your own cup for someone to pour in.

00:20:48.000 Like it's these, and there's obviously many others that are important, including respecting others' prior, you know, and what they want to do and, you know, very consent, of course.

00:20:59.000 Consent is definitely one.

00:21:01.000 So, but it's these 10 rules that create this incredible freedom to anyone for anyone to be by themselves, be themselves.

00:21:11.000 And so it's powerful.

00:21:13.000 It really is.

00:21:14.000 And in this, what you'd think would be absolutely obscene environment.

00:21:18.000 Without the rules, how would it be?

00:21:20.000 I think it would be chaos.

00:21:22.000 Exactly.

00:21:22.000 So there you go.

00:21:23.000 Exactly.

00:21:24.000 You need order for liberty.

00:21:25.000 And that's why we've lost the order, so we don't have liberty.

00:21:29.000 And again, I'm not that familiar with Burning Man culture, but it's 11, not 1,011 rules.

00:21:37.000 Yeah.

00:21:38.000 And the more laws, the less justice.

00:21:41.000 Again, if it was 1,011 rules, you'd be like, forget it.

00:21:45.000 Probably.

00:21:45.000 No one would be like, excuse me.

00:21:46.000 And then it creates many, what I call micro-tyrants.

00:21:49.000 This is what happened during COVID, right?

00:21:51.000 Probably, yeah.

00:21:51.000 So then you have all these people that enforce Rule 888.

00:21:55.000 But a crisply written list that everyone can look at, remember, and abide by.

00:22:00.000 Digestible, too.

00:22:00.000 Who enforces them at Burning Man?

00:22:03.000 Oh, there are rangers everywhere.

00:22:05.000 Really?

00:22:05.000 So the police, there's rangers that do the 11 that.

00:22:09.000 And each other.

00:22:10.000 That's the answer I was going to say.

00:22:11.000 And each other.

00:22:12.000 So within your own camps, there's a lot of accountability.

00:22:16.000 So in the scriptures, there was a time when the Jews lived in the wilderness for 400 years without a standing army or a police force, and they all self-enforced the 10 countries. 0.96

00:22:23.000 Exactly.

00:22:24.000 The law was at the center of society, and these are our rules.

00:22:27.000 And if you don't follow them, we're going to then punish you if you violate one of these 10 rules.

00:22:33.000 And so I think that you need rules.

00:22:35.000 You need a moral-centeredness.

00:22:36.000 We don't have it in our society right now.

00:22:38.000 So I love that example.

00:22:40.000 Yeah, because it's so extreme, right?

00:22:41.000 No, it proves my point, because it's like these are people in the state of nature.

00:22:44.000 Literally, right?

00:22:46.000 That's right.

00:22:46.000 There's nothing on the nature.

00:22:47.000 But you do need rules.

00:22:48.000 That's exactly right.

00:22:50.000 You can't even be in the state of nature and just be like, you know, pure anarchy.

00:22:55.000 Because we're all inherently bad.

00:22:56.000 That proves my point.

00:22:58.000 See, I'm like, open it.

00:23:00.000 It proves my point because if absent rules are something transcendent, something that you believe there's a punishment for, then someone might go and steal or someone might violate the consent or they may, you know.

00:23:12.000 So that does prove my point, which is, and so Thomas Hobbes who came up with this view of nature.

00:23:18.000 There's three social contract theorists, which you have Jean-Jacques Rousseau, John Locke, and Thomas Hobbes, and they were all like within a short period of time.

00:23:25.000 And they all have three different views of human nature in nature.

00:23:29.000 So I'll get to Hobbes the last because I agree with him the most.

00:23:31.000 But the first is Jean-Jacques Rousseau, who believed that human beings were naturally born good and corrupted as they grow up.

00:23:38.000 Okay?

00:23:38.000 And he's my guy.

00:23:40.000 Yeah.

00:23:41.000 He did influence Marxism. 1.00

00:23:43.000 Oh shit. 1.00

00:23:44.000 No, it's okay. 1.00

00:23:45.000 It's interesting because you think about it, you could easily become a Marxist, not you, because then you have to blame something for why people are bad.

00:23:51.000 They blame capitalism, they blame society.

00:23:53.000 I'm not saying you do, but.

00:23:54.000 This is where I have the Buddhist approach, where I realize that the only way to fix it is myself.

00:23:57.000 Yeah, and so then you have similar.

00:24:01.000 Rousseau is right about a lot, but Marx was a huge Rousseau guy.

00:24:05.000 He was like, oh my goodness, totally true.

00:24:07.000 So Rousseau would value the primitive over the civilized, the infant over the adult.

00:24:11.000 Then you have John Locke, who believed in something, and I'm going to butcher the Latin, tabula rasa, which basically is blank slate.

00:24:17.000 You're neither good nor bad at birth, and you're completely formed by your environment or the values.

00:24:21.000 And then you have Thomas Hobbes, who wrote a book called The Leviathan during the English Civil War.

00:24:27.000 And so you understand, everyone is always a product of their environment.

00:24:29.000 I do agree with that.

00:24:31.000 And so we should just try to create a good environment, which is why I try to do that.

00:24:34.000 Thomas Hobbes grew up in one of the bloodiest times in European history, right?

00:24:37.000 It was the English Civil War.

00:24:39.000 All he knew was bloody death destruction.

00:24:41.000 And so he wrote in The Leviathan that human nature was nasty, brutish, and short.

00:24:46.000 He's like, human beings are awful because he saw people do the worst things, human, you know, decapitations and rapes and kidnapping.

00:24:53.000 And meanwhile, Rousseau lived like an opulent life in Geneva, Switzerland, and really didn't have much stress or pressure.

00:25:01.000 You could believe that everyone's naturally good and all that.

00:25:04.000 So I'm not saying that everyone who believes in that does, but those are basically the three social contract theories.

00:25:10.000 So my viewpoint is that absent rule.

00:25:13.000 So Thomas Hobbes came to the conclusion: if you do not have strong order, people are going to rip each other apart.

00:25:20.000 And I got to be honest, Annika, look at San Francisco.

00:25:22.000 Look at Chicago.

00:25:23.000 Oh, man.

00:25:24.000 And there might be something to, you know, this.

00:25:26.000 What happens when you take police away?

00:25:27.000 No, exactly.

00:25:27.000 And there might be something like the subconscious molded them and all that.

00:25:31.000 But even more so, I think it's less about their environment that creates crime and it's more about who they naturally are within them.

00:25:39.000 Meaning that if you don't, what do you do if you think you can get away with it?

00:25:44.000 I have a theory that human nature is to do the minimum.

00:25:47.000 To be lazy.

00:25:49.000 Whatever the minimum is.

00:25:51.000 So if I were to tell you about my childhood, my dad was incredibly hard on me.

00:25:55.000 There was a lot of discipline.

00:25:58.000 And so my minimum was high, it felt like, right?

00:26:02.000 Someone else's minimum.

00:26:04.000 I think this is why sometimes in generational wealth families you see less and less ambition at times because the minimum gets lower, right?

00:26:13.000 There's always a catch net.

00:26:15.000 There's really nothing they have to do, right?

00:26:16.000 This is just an example.

00:26:18.000 But I do have the belief that human nature is to do the minimum.

00:26:22.000 Yeah, and I. Like deadlines, right?

00:26:24.000 Like the deadline is over here.

00:26:25.000 So you wait for it, right?

00:26:26.000 And again, just so everyone understands my view on human nature, how did I come to this?

00:26:31.000 Well, spending time around so many high school and college kids, you realize that unless you repeat it and discipline on it and repeat it and discipline on it, then a behavior is formed.

00:26:40.000 Right?

00:26:41.000 And so.

00:26:41.000 That is how you create programming.

00:26:43.000 Yes.

00:26:43.000 That's how you use a programming system.

00:26:44.000 And not all programming is bad.

00:26:45.000 I mean, I'll give you an example.

00:26:47.000 So if you take a child, like my 20-month-old, she has no manners.

00:26:52.000 I hope to program manners.

00:26:54.000 Right. 1.00

00:26:55.000 I mean, she doesn't use the restroom. 1.00

00:26:57.000 She doesn't, you know. 1.00

00:26:58.000 She drools. 1.00

00:26:59.000 Exactly.

00:26:59.000 So some programming is actually really good.

00:27:01.000 It keeps us free because without that, it would be like a super unpleasant society, right?

00:27:06.000 Everyone would smell all the time.

00:27:08.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:27:09.000 But some programming can be super bad.

00:27:11.000 Yeah.

00:27:13.000 That's exactly right.

00:27:14.000 So then you have to decide what is good or bad.

00:27:16.000 Yeah.

00:27:16.000 And that's what we're here.

00:27:18.000 So how do we establish the right framework moving forward with our country based on sort of where we've gone astray?

00:27:25.000 Like, what do we need to do, and who do you think is going to be able to accomplish that job in the best way?

00:27:31.000 Well, I think it's Trump right now.

00:27:33.000 I think we're in a total crisis.

00:27:34.000 I think the civilization is in free fall.

00:27:37.000 And I just ask people this: put aside everything you think about Donald Trump.

00:27:40.000 Were the four years under Trump, were you making more money, more stable?

00:27:43.000 Were you flourishing greater?

00:27:45.000 Did we have more peace, which is a moral good?

00:27:47.000 Or the four years of Joe Biden?

00:27:48.000 And it's not even a question.

00:27:49.000 I can go through three.

00:27:50.000 Economically, we were better.

00:27:51.000 Foreign policy, we were better, and we were better at the border and/or immigration sovereignty issues.

00:27:57.000 You can put all your other opinions aside.

00:27:59.000 I don't think they matter nearly as much.

00:28:01.000 With Joe Biden, your dollar is worth less, and inflation has crushed people.

00:28:05.000 Foreign policy, we have wars with Russia and Ukraine.

00:28:07.000 We have wars with Israel, Gaza, and possibly Iran.

00:28:10.000 China is on the march. 0.96

00:28:11.000 The world is, the planet is literally falling apart.

00:28:14.000 And then finally, the border, we have 10,000 to 15,000 people a day coming across the southern border.

00:28:18.000 And so, I'm not the one that says that Trump is going to heal the country, but he might save the country.

00:28:24.000 Every president has a role to play.

00:28:26.000 And Donald Trump goes in to break things and to change standard operating procedure and the order in front of us. 0.90

00:28:33.000 And I find the accusations that people throw against them to be silly and short-sighted.

00:28:38.000 And we don't have to wonder what type of president each person running is.

00:28:41.000 We now know.

00:28:42.000 That's true.

00:28:42.000 It's the first time in American history where you can see these four years versus this four years.

00:28:47.000 Which one?

00:28:48.000 Usually it's this four years against somebody's vision or two visions running against one another.

00:28:54.000 No, this time it's totally different.

00:28:55.000 It's four documented years, four documented years.

00:28:58.000 And Donald Trump's, the country was in a far better spot.

00:29:00.000 I want to get that back.

00:29:04.000 Why do you think that Trump, do you, first off, do you think that Trump was really elected president last time, but was cheated through the voting system and through mail-in, through manipulation?

00:29:16.000 The one I focus on is the manipulation of consumption of information, where Twitter colluded with the FBI and we weren't allowed to talk about Hunter Biden laptop and the social media companies suppressed any sort of dissident information.

00:29:28.000 That alone was information warfare.

00:29:30.000 The entire election was decided by 41,000 votes.

00:29:33.000 We had the highest voter turnout that we had in 60 years.

00:29:37.000 Well, Trump got even more votes than he did the year before the term before.

00:29:40.000 It was 20 million more votes cast than any other election in American history.

00:29:43.000 And we had, let me get this right, 81.

00:29:46.000 156 to 160 million total votes cast, and the election is decided by 41,000 votes.

00:29:52.000 Before we get into manual.

00:29:53.000 And how many people have come across the border?

00:29:55.000 What are we at?

00:29:55.000 12 million right now?

00:29:56.000 Yeah, that we know of.

00:29:57.000 Yeah, I think it's like 9.5 million.

00:29:59.000 It's going to be a bit of a calculation.

00:29:59.000 It's an influential amount of votes.

00:30:01.000 Thank God people have to use their IDs now, right? 0.99

00:30:03.000 Isn't that a new rule, finally?

00:30:04.000 Well, it depends.

00:30:05.000 You have to have proof of citizenship, which is separate. 0.99

00:30:08.000 Shit, are they going to get that? 0.99

00:30:10.000 It depends on what state, not in California. 0.99

00:30:12.000 I mean, do you think this is part of why the border is open to manipulate the illegals that are currently voting, but I do think it changes the demographics, and I think that their kids become citizens immediately?

00:30:27.000 Because if you have 9 million people and they have four kids per family, you're talking about 36 to 40 million people.

00:30:32.000 Right.

00:30:32.000 So then, and then all of a sudden, now, mind you, Hispanics are not a monolith.

00:30:36.000 A lot of Hispanics are voting Republican, voting conservative.

00:30:38.000 They want a free society, but they generally do end up voting more Democrat than Republican.

00:30:42.000 But it's more than that.

00:30:43.000 It's an intentional, what's called the Cloward-Piven strategy.

00:30:46.000 These were two political philosophers and thinkers in the 70s that said you destroy America by three things.

00:30:50.000 You do three things.

00:30:51.000 And they were Marxists.

00:30:52.000 They were communists.

00:30:53.000 Again, if you look it up, your audience can fact-check me.

00:30:55.000 Cloward-Piven strategy.

00:30:56.000 You destroy America through destroying the currency.

00:30:59.000 So you borrow a bunch of money that you don't have.

00:31:01.000 You build a fourth branch of government that is a deep state bureaucracy.

00:31:05.000 And then you overwhelm the country with third worlders and you effectively destabilize the public infrastructure and the trust of the culture and the country. 1.00

00:31:13.000 So you're living through all three of those right now.

00:31:18.000 Wow.

00:31:19.000 That seems pretty cut and dry.

00:31:22.000 Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?

00:31:28.000 Actually, that reminds me of something that people talk about.

00:31:31.000 I personally don't see how Trump does not become president.

00:31:34.000 Oh, I see how he can't.

00:31:36.000 But one of the questions is, do you think that they would murder him?

00:31:41.000 They might.

00:31:42.000 Yeah.

00:31:43.000 I think that assassinations post-Bobby Kennedy are logistically harder, A, because of Secret Service protection.

00:31:48.000 And B, I think that...

00:31:49.000 But he doesn't have it.

00:31:50.000 Well, Trump has it.

00:31:51.000 Oh, sorry, Russia. 0.98

00:31:52.000 They might try to kill RFK too.

00:31:54.000 But Trump has secret service protection. 0.99

00:31:55.000 I mean, of course they might try to murder him.

00:31:57.000 I mean, what else do they have left?

00:31:58.000 And people say, oh, they're not going to try.

00:31:59.000 I mean, assassination is built into the history of the West.

00:32:03.000 From Julius Caesar to Abraham Lincoln to JFK to Bobby Kennedy to MLK to Malcolm X.

00:32:09.000 They were all assassinated.

00:32:10.000 We have not had a successful high-profile assassination since Bobby Kennedy.

00:32:15.000 We've had the last successful presidential attempted assassination was Ronald Reagan when he was president, I think in 1982 or 83.

00:32:23.000 And I think that the people, I believe the government killed JFK for the record.

00:32:28.000 And I don't think that's up for debate.

00:32:30.000 Yeah.

00:32:30.000 Exactly.

00:32:31.000 But I think that the government would rather assassinate you financially, reputationally, than put a bullet in you. 0.86

00:32:38.000 Because I think that what comes next, the destabilization that would follow, I think they don't want. 0.96

00:32:44.000 It's a cleaner kill for them.

00:32:46.000 Do you think that because people would, okay, to put him in jail or to get the population to have him lose, right?

00:32:54.000 Because theoretically, if Trump were to be assassinated, God forbid, I hate even talking like this.

00:32:58.000 Right, right.

00:32:59.000 I can't imagine that the country will be stable the next day.

00:33:03.000 I pray it would be, but I mean, you have 30 to 10, you have probably 15 million people that look to Trump and they're like, this is the one vessel that we believe that can save the country.

00:33:18.000 And if that too gets robbed from them after their factory jobs got robbed from them and if their best friend overdosed on fentanyl, I'm not sure what comes next would be pleasant.

00:33:28.000 And I hope it would be.

00:33:29.000 I don't want unrest.

00:33:30.000 I think it's awful.

00:33:31.000 So I think the Intel agencies know that. 0.99

00:33:33.000 I think that the people that are the masters of society, but they might get desperate and they might put a bullet in them. 0.97

00:33:39.000 I pray not. 0.96

00:33:39.000 I hope not. 0.96

00:33:40.000 I mean, as far as an ideal outcome in the end, Trump president then.

00:33:44.000 Yeah, and that's just the beginning of the fight.

00:33:46.000 What about his VP?

00:33:47.000 We'll see.

00:33:48.000 Tulsi Gabbard's getting talked about here.

00:33:50.000 I see some goods and bads.

00:33:51.000 It looks good and bad about that.

00:33:53.000 But I think that it would be a formidable ticket.

00:33:56.000 I was kind of hoping for RFK if he, like, as an option, but he had some.

00:34:01.000 Nicole Shanahan, he went way to the left.

00:34:03.000 But he did, right?

00:34:04.000 Then he just posted some social media posts coming down on.

00:34:08.000 Yeah, it's totally crazy.

00:34:09.000 Yeah.

00:34:10.000 I actually love that RFK.

00:34:11.000 Because a lot of people that were going to vote for him were probably quite Republican.

00:34:14.000 Correct.

00:34:14.000 And that were upset about the COVID stuff and he didn't like Trump's embrace of the vaccine, all that.

00:34:20.000 I think that RFK is running for the Democrat nomination in 2028.

00:34:24.000 That's my current theory, is that he wants to try to rebuild the Democrat Party as being an old-school Democrat Party, which I think would be a great thing.

00:34:30.000 I was going to say, I think that's not a bad thing.

00:34:32.000 It would be a moral good for the country.

00:34:33.000 I wouldn't agree with them on everything, but at least I would be like, okay, if they ever got their hands on power, they wouldn't destroy this place.

00:34:40.000 You know, like a Democrat Party that believes in borders.

00:34:42.000 They might have differences of me on abortion, but they're going to be de-radicalizing that.

00:34:46.000 They don't want the trans stuff. 1.00

00:34:47.000 Like, you know, the Democrats of the 60s or 70s.

00:34:49.000 I think that would be great.

00:34:51.000 So I think Bobby Kennedy's, if that's his goal and his mission, I think that's great.

00:34:56.000 Who Trump should pick, I don't know.

00:34:58.000 I like JD Vance.

00:34:59.000 He's from Ohio.

00:35:00.000 Probably makes sense to have a female given some of the dynamics that Trump is up against.

00:35:05.000 Because he's criticized so much for things. 0.99

00:35:07.000 Oh, no, just abortion and the female vote is going to be so powerful and so potent.

00:35:12.000 I think that we as conservatives or free thinkers do believe in biological differences between men and women.

00:35:19.000 I definitely do.

00:35:19.000 Yeah, I know.

00:35:20.000 Exactly.

00:35:20.000 I love those.

00:35:21.000 And you go to campuses and you're like, what is a woman?

00:35:24.000 And they're like, well, this shouldn't be hard.

00:35:27.000 No, this shouldn't be that hard.

00:35:28.000 So I, yeah, look, we'll see what he ends up choosing or selecting.

00:35:32.000 I have no special insight, but I hope he chooses to be able to.

00:35:36.000 Where does he come into the picture?

00:35:37.000 I would love a Vega.

00:35:38.000 I don't know if he's currently in the running, unfortunately.

00:35:40.000 I would love to see someone, though, that's chosen for their merit, not just for what box that they select.

00:35:40.000 Yeah.

00:35:46.000 Well, then it can't be a girl, because you're saying it's for a box then. 1.00

00:35:48.000 But no, there's plenty of qualified girls. 1.00

00:35:49.000 Yeah, of course. 1.00

00:35:50.000 I mean, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, you know, there's so many that are terrific.

00:35:53.000 So Christine Noam is great.

00:35:55.000 So I just, I want someone who is the most qualified, and if they happen to also, you know, choose a box then, or pick a box, then that's fine.

00:36:02.000 What about you in the future?

00:36:04.000 I mean, there's no way that you haven't either been asked or thought about political office in any way.

00:36:09.000 I get to speak my mind.

00:36:09.000 I love what I get to do.

00:36:11.000 Okay, Tucker Jr. I also love organizing, though, too.

00:36:15.000 So I love the turning point side of it.

00:36:16.000 And so, yeah, but if I can have the impact of a Tucker or of a Rush, what a great life to live.

00:36:21.000 In some ways, you're more impactful than politicians.

00:36:23.000 You can speak your mind.

00:36:24.000 That's true.

00:36:25.000 You could spend time with your family every night.

00:36:27.000 You could travel.

00:36:28.000 Being a politician feels like so dirty and just like, ugh.

00:36:32.000 I'd rather have other people go do that.

00:36:33.000 After I, I agree.

00:36:36.000 After meeting Bobby and, you know, spending a little bit more time with him, I saw him over New Year's and he got this hair-brained idea that I should run for Congress and told Amaryllis, who works with him, to talk to me about it.

00:36:50.000 And so I had a phone call and she was like, Bobby called me last night.

00:36:54.000 He's like, have you talked to Danica yet?

00:36:57.000 And I was like, this is the most crazy idea I have ever heard.

00:37:02.000 But when she was explaining the whole situation about why you do it and the history of politics and especially in a more local way, is that it's generally just people speaking up for the community and what they believe.

00:37:17.000 And that after, of course, I was like, yeah, there's a very low likelihood, no, I'm not going to do this.

00:37:22.000 Is that, you know, people would say, they would say, that's exactly why you should.

00:37:27.000 The reason why you should is because you don't want to.

00:37:31.000 I find it just to be repulsive.

00:37:34.000 Like to have to go to be decent.

00:37:36.000 Tucker says the same thing.

00:37:37.000 I mean, he literally says, like, I hate politicians, I think I've heard him say.

00:37:40.000 Yes, I mean, there's some that I like, but they're very rare.

00:37:44.000 Do you think that every politician is a narcissist then?

00:37:47.000 No, I don't think so.

00:37:48.000 I think there's some really decent people that end up running.

00:37:50.000 They're a majority narcissist. 0.80

00:37:51.000 Some are sociopathic. 0.51

00:37:53.000 Some are like the 5'8 version of the student council president that always wanted to be important.

00:37:59.000 In fact, that's like a majority of DC.

00:38:02.000 They're all short.

00:38:03.000 No, I'm just, I mean, again, I'm kind of tall.

00:38:04.000 I'm nothing against short people.

00:38:05.000 You are.

00:38:06.000 No, no, no.

00:38:06.000 You're what?

00:38:06.000 6'2?

00:38:07.000 I'm like 6'2, whatever.

00:38:08.000 But no, I will say nothing against short people.

00:38:11.000 I have something against short men who wish that they were tall and they're bitter that they're not tall.

00:38:14.000 Yeah, of course.

00:38:15.000 Right, I think you agree.

00:38:15.000 That's a psychological.

00:38:16.000 Exactly, exactly.

00:38:18.000 What would you, I mean, being close to Trump, it feels like his seemingly narcissistic way of communicating and the way that he delivers can be a very big turnoff.

00:38:30.000 And I find that even in my experience, it seems to be a really big turnoff for women, especially.

00:38:35.000 It seems like a very big trigger for them.

00:38:37.000 And that if he would just turn the volume down, like I was, I would say, like, if it would have been down like 20%, he would have been fine.

00:38:44.000 I'm going to click on that.

00:38:44.000 And I feel like it's down.

00:38:46.000 I'm going to say, Mr. President, Danica has a message for you.

00:38:49.000 And I feel like it's down a little, but would you recommend that to me?

00:38:53.000 Or I don't know, because look, he knows his base really well.

00:38:56.000 What some would call narcissism, other people call confidence.

00:39:00.000 I get it.

00:39:02.000 And I'm kind of out of the world of like Trump should improve because the man is facing 700 years in federal prison.

00:39:10.000 And I would probably be acting crazy.

00:39:12.000 I would say this, though, that, and I'm not saying he's acting crazy, but like however people portray him.

00:39:16.000 He could.

00:39:18.000 Here's what I will say, is that if it's less about how people view Trump's behavior and more about the excellent job he did as president, I think it's a blowout.

00:39:29.000 It's a no-brainer.

00:39:30.000 And I have no idea.

00:39:32.000 People ask me all the time, Charlie can get Trump.

00:39:33.000 I just come, no, I can't.

00:39:34.000 I can't.

00:39:34.000 I'm sorry.

00:39:35.000 I can't get him to do it.

00:39:36.000 I'm sorry.

00:39:36.000 But I will defend him.

00:39:38.000 And I think he was.

00:39:39.000 Here's what I will say: is that I go on so many of these shows and people talk about all the negative stuff about Trump.

00:39:44.000 He has some amazing virtues.

00:39:45.000 And if you're raising a child and they say, well, yeah, I want a president that my child can look up to.

00:39:51.000 So you want like a boring, cut out, like a corporate shill?

00:39:51.000 Like, okay.

00:39:54.000 Or do you want someone that when their back is against the wall, that they keep on fighting and they keep on slugging?

00:40:00.000 I think that's amazingly appealing.

00:40:02.000 I think it's virtuous, actually.

00:40:04.000 So I hear you, Danica. 0.71

00:40:06.000 I hear from women all the time.

00:40:07.000 If he would just, if he would just, like, I don't get triggered, I got nothing for you.

00:40:11.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:40:12.000 Like, I got nothing.

00:40:13.000 And I'll say, he can fix the country.

00:40:16.000 You know what I'd say?

00:40:17.000 That it probably has to do with some of their past experience in their life.

00:40:21.000 Danica, you said it.

00:40:22.000 The psychology of it.

00:40:24.000 If I say that, woo!

00:40:26.000 No, it's totally, it's in that.

00:40:27.000 And that's why I think it's more of a female trait to be triggered because it's more manipulation and it tends to be a more massive, men embody more narcissism because they are bosses and in charge.

00:40:41.000 And it's just kind of like the less connected to their feelings. 0.92

00:40:44.000 Women are more.

00:40:45.000 There's just generalities with men and women and how it would go.

00:40:48.000 And I think that's why.

00:40:49.000 So I would say that it probably is because some of their programming gives them access to information about themselves that they have.

00:40:57.000 Again, I would use the word confidence.

00:40:58.000 I want someone with confidence when they're dealing with Xi Juping. 0.74

00:41:01.000 Amen.

00:41:02.000 I want someone who believes in himself, who can assert himself.

00:41:02.000 Right?

00:41:05.000 I'm with you.

00:41:06.000 I'm with you.

00:41:07.000 And I'm also with you if you go down the political route or maybe speaker of the house?

00:41:12.000 Like, is there a role for a really incredible speaker?

00:41:17.000 If I could just have an impact that reaches millions of people every day.

00:41:20.000 Maybe someone that has integrity to run the either run the RNC, right?

00:41:24.000 I'm not doing that.

00:41:25.000 No, I want to build some.

00:41:26.000 I'm an entrepreneur.

00:41:27.000 I love building.

00:41:28.000 I love taking risks.

00:41:29.000 I also, I can't censor myself.

00:41:31.000 I just, I can't do that.

00:41:33.000 I just tell the truth.

00:41:34.000 And I feel like we're making an impact, I think.

00:41:37.000 As a last question, then how do you want to be remembered?

00:41:40.000 I know you're very young and you've accomplished a lot, but I think this will, this is like an end of life.

00:41:44.000 Yeah, like how do you want to, you know?

00:41:46.000 Faithful Christian, loyal husband, good father, and proud patriot.

00:41:52.000 That's my tombstone.

00:41:53.000 I'm going to put it on there.

00:41:56.000 Truth teller.

00:41:57.000 And truth teller, yeah, at the bottom.

00:41:58.000 Truth teller.

00:41:59.000 I like it.

00:42:00.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:42:01.000 Email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:42:04.000 Thanks so much for listening, and God bless.

00:42:08.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - June 02, 2024

Naturally Good or Naturally Evil?: A Conversation with Danica Patrick

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