The Charlie Kirk Show - March 27, 2022

Porn Culture and the Trans Agenda—Charlie Kirk vs. Buck Angel

Episode Stats

Length

1 hour and 4 minutes

Words per minute

215.52672

Word count

13,844

Sentence count

1,294

Harmful content

Misogyny

28

sentences flagged

Toxicity

60

sentences flagged

Hate speech

41

sentences flagged

Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Transgenderism in America is a serious problem, and it s only getting worse with every passing day. In this episode, Charlie Kirk and Buck Angel join me to discuss their views on the matter, and why it s important to have a conversation about it.

Transcript

Transcripts from "The Charlie Kirk Show" are sourced from the Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool. Explore them interactively here.

Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .

Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .

Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .

00:00:00.000 Hey everybody, happy Sunday. 0.99

00:00:01.000 My debate night with a trans porn person. 0.98

00:00:05.000 We talk about porn, we talk about trans issues, all sorts of different types of stuff. 0.98

00:00:11.000 Pretty unfiltered, rather respectful at times.

00:00:15.000 I don't think it gets disrespectful.

00:00:17.000 I do want to thank this person, Buck Angel.

00:00:20.000 Buck was decent and was kind, despite being involved in a degenerate lifestyle of being a porn person, which I find to be reprehensible.

00:00:29.000 So we talk about that.

00:00:30.000 I leave none of those feelings really unmentioned, but I wish this person well.

00:00:36.000 I do.

00:00:37.000 So email us your thoughts as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:00:40.000 If you'd like to support our show, go to charliekirk.com slash support.

00:00:43.000 And if you'd like to get involved with TurningPointUSA, go to tpusa.com.

00:00:48.000 Turningpoint USA is what made this episode happen.

00:00:51.000 And so give your support to turningpointusa at tpusa.com.

00:00:55.000 That's tpusa.com.

00:00:57.000 Sort of high school or a college chapter today at tpusa.com.

00:01:02.000 You guys can get engaged and get involved.

00:01:04.000 Come to our young women's leadership summit at tpusa.com slash ywls, tpusa.com slash ywls.

00:01:13.000 Our tour is coming up in just a couple of hours.

00:01:15.000 tpusa.com slash tour.

00:01:17.000 I might be coming to a neighborhood near you, Arkansas, Auburn, many other places, tpusa.com slash tour.

00:01:24.000 Buckle up, everybody, here.

00:01:25.000 We go.

00:01:26.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:01:28.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campuses.

00:01:30.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

00:01:33.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:01:37.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:01:38.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:01:39.000 His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.

00:01:47.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

00:01:56.000 That's why we are here.

00:01:59.000 Welcome, Charlie Kirk and Buck Angel.

00:02:02.000 Thank you for coming.

00:02:03.000 Tonight's topic is going to be transgenderism in America.

00:02:07.000 You guys each have a few minutes to give your opening statements.

00:02:10.000 I'll start with Charlie.

00:02:12.000 Okay.

00:02:13.000 First, thanks for joining.

00:02:15.000 I'm not going to take the entire time.

00:02:18.000 I think it's pretty simple, my viewpoint.

00:02:19.000 I think there's only two genders, and I have sympathy for people that suffer from gender dysphoria and compassion.

00:02:27.000 And I think we'll explore that together.

00:02:30.000 And, you know, transgenderism, if you will, presupposes that there are two genders.

00:02:35.000 And I look forward to like learning your perspective on all of that.

00:02:39.000 But it's a serious problem.

00:02:40.000 And I think based on things you've said, we'll actually have some common ground on children and education and the entire kind of detransitioning movement that's happening right now because a lot of people have regret after undergoing that irreversible surgery. 0.90

00:02:54.000 But yeah, my position is pretty clear.

00:02:57.000 Your chromosomal makeup is very important.

00:02:59.000 I believe we should be grounded in biological and material reality.

00:03:04.000 And, you know, I believe that gender and sex are directly related.

00:03:08.000 And so I know I have more time to use, but I'm going to allow our guests to use that time up.

00:03:13.000 Right on.

00:03:14.000 First off, thanks for having me.

00:03:15.000 I really appreciate debates and I really appreciate these conversations because they will help us move forward.

00:03:20.000 So I'm pretty much on board with a lot what you said there.

00:03:23.000 I do believe in sex.

00:03:25.000 I believe in biological sex.

00:03:27.000 I am a biological female who decided that I felt male and wanted to look male and live in the world as male.

00:03:34.000 And as you see, I pretty much look like a man.

00:03:36.000 You pull it off.

00:03:37.000 But I am not a biological man.

00:03:40.000 So I am a biological female.

00:03:42.000 So that being said, that should also be understood in the sense that I am not trying to change biology.

00:03:49.000 What I'm trying to change here is a perspective that some people don't feel the way they were born to feel.

00:03:57.000 So what I'm trying to say is that, yes, biological sex is real and you cannot change that.

00:04:04.000 But what you can change is an appearance to look a certain way to walk the world as a happier person.

00:04:10.000 So I do believe that gender is something that can be performed, where I do not believe that sex is a performative space. 0.63

00:04:18.000 Okay.

00:04:19.000 So that leads me to our first question.

00:04:21.000 And you guys kind of answered this a little bit, but are gender and sex two different things?

00:04:26.000 And I'll start with you.

00:04:28.000 So gender and sex are two different things as far as I'm concerned.

00:04:31.000 And why I say that is because sex, you cannot change your biological sex.

00:04:36.000 It is not possible to do that.

00:04:37.000 I'm proof of that.

00:04:39.000 If you did my chromosomal test or all that, it will come back as a biological female. 1.00

00:04:43.000 What I did change is my gender and the way I look and the way I perform to the world.

00:04:49.000 So I think this tends to be a lot of the problem with what the rest of, I would say, the trans activists who I am, I don't really align with trans activism these days because I will say that I cannot change my biological sex, but I can change the way I look to the world.

00:05:07.000 So this is where I think that we're running into a problem and why people don't understand what I did is a thing to change and save my life.

00:05:14.000 Where I believe today in the new transgender world, we are saying that biology doesn't exist and anyone can be a woman and our man and those things. 0.99

00:05:23.000 And that's not true.

00:05:24.000 I do not believe that.

00:05:25.000 So I believe on some level, gender and biological sex can be separated, though I do understand why people like yourself or other people in the world don't understand that those things can be separated and that they are the same thing.

00:05:37.000 So you're a splinter against some of the transgender movements that we're seeing. 0.50

00:05:41.000 Yes, 100% I am.

00:05:42.000 So like the idea that men can become pregnant is not true.

00:05:47.000 And why I will say that is, yes, the kind of man that can become pregnant happens to be a man like me, which again, I'll go back to tell you, is a biological woman.

00:05:56.000 The only people that can get pregnant are biological women. 1.00

00:05:59.000 So anything other than that, you're lying.

00:06:02.000 It's a total lie.

00:06:03.000 So just so I understand how you describe yourself, and I'm not trying to be cruel.

00:06:09.000 You're wearing a costume.

00:06:10.000 That's right.

00:06:11.000 That's right.

00:06:11.000 Now, now, some trans people will be very offended by that.

00:06:14.000 I am not.

00:06:14.000 I'm not trying to offend you.

00:06:15.000 No, I know you're not.

00:06:16.000 And actually, that's why I'm sitting here, my friend, because I know that you want to have the discussion.

00:06:20.000 And maybe you want to understand me.

00:06:22.000 Doesn't mean that I might change your mind.

00:06:24.000 All I care about is respect.

00:06:25.000 That's all I care about.

00:06:26.000 And seeing that I'm trying to participate in the world.

00:06:29.000 Now, what I'm going to tell you is there are people in the trans community who are not participating in the world. 1.00

00:06:33.000 And they're creating lies and they're creating deceit in order for me, a person like myself, not to be able to move forward in the world.

00:06:39.000 And then people like yourself arguing, wait a minute, trans people aren't real.

00:06:43.000 Or I don't know if that's how you feel, but I see where you're coming from.

00:06:45.000 And you're saying, what's happening here?

00:06:48.000 Why are we denying biology?

00:06:50.000 That is something I will not be a part of.

00:06:52.000 Because if I wasn't a biological female, I wouldn't be a trans person.

00:06:56.000 Right.

00:06:56.000 Right?

00:06:57.000 Yeah.

00:06:57.000 So that's refreshing to hear because I kind of feel like I'm living in the land of the insane sometimes, right?

00:07:02.000 So do I, which, okay, so now that's a weird space for us.

00:07:05.000 Oh, yeah.

00:07:06.000 So we both agree with that.

00:07:07.000 So I guess, you know, and again, with the potential of stepping on landmines here, I might be imprecise with my language is, is it then the right thing to transition, right?

00:07:17.000 Because the data shows high suicide rates, regrets, people that say they want to detransition.

00:07:24.000 And again, I'm not trying to say you made a mistake.

00:07:26.000 That would be, you know, again, kind of harsh of me.

00:07:29.000 But what I would ask, though, is you look at all this data in front of you, 20% of trans youth attempt suicide in 2020.

00:07:36.000 I'm sure you might say it's because of bullying and other factors, but we can explore that.

00:07:40.000 But is that the right move?

00:07:41.000 Just because you feel something, should you do it?

00:07:42.000 That's right.

00:07:43.000 That's a great question.

00:07:44.000 So again, I don't speak for a whole community, right?

00:07:46.000 I speak for somebody who transitioned 29 years ago.

00:07:50.000 Okay, I didn't just transition yesterday.

00:07:52.000 I did it in a time when we didn't even have what we have today, right?

00:07:55.000 And I did it in a time where people thought I was a creepy weirdo freak and people tried to shut it down and people would not help me.

00:08:02.000 And somehow I found a way to transition medically, which means that I started taking testosterone.

00:08:08.000 I was the very first person to do that in Los Angeles, take testosterone.

00:08:11.000 And my doctor called me a guinea pig.

00:08:13.000 He actually called me a guinea pig because he didn't know what he was doing.

00:08:16.000 He had no clue, but he was willing to try to help me find this space.

00:08:19.000 And then I operated on myself, which I removed my breast so that I had a more male looking physique.

00:08:25.000 And then through that, I just decided that I wanted to look and live male.

00:08:28.000 So that being said, I think the problem here is that I'm a different type of trans person.

00:08:33.000 I'm a transsexual person.

00:08:35.000 So tell me the difference.

00:08:36.000 So the difference now today we have transgender, which is an umbrella term for different kinds of people, like non-binary, transmasculine, FTM.

00:08:45.000 There's all these different kinds of queer, queer, whatever.

00:08:48.000 There's this, they're making all these things up, which is fine.

00:08:51.000 I want to say that that's, but that does not represent me.

00:08:54.000 And so what happened?

00:08:55.000 I had a, I had like what I like to call a sex change, even though that's not possible.

00:09:00.000 So I wanted to look, I want to be you.

00:09:00.000 It's what we called it.

00:09:02.000 I want to look and be a man, but I'm not like you.

00:09:05.000 I'm a different kind of man.

00:09:06.000 That was the whole point of me transitioning.

00:09:08.000 Right.

00:09:08.000 So, but I guess the moral question is, should you just always do what you want to do?

00:09:13.000 So that going back to that question, no, I do not believe you should always do what you want to do if it in the long run is going to hurt you rather than help.

00:09:20.000 Now, me, it helped me.

00:09:22.000 I'm a successful person in the world.

00:09:24.000 I was, I attempted suicide.

00:09:25.000 I was a drug addict.

00:09:26.000 I was homeless.

00:09:27.000 I was prostituting.

00:09:28.000 I was doing all of these things to survive as a female, but I couldn't survive that way. 0.99

00:09:33.000 And now as a man, I live an amazing, beautiful life.

00:09:36.000 And isn't that what most people want to do?

00:09:38.000 No, sure.

00:09:39.000 And, you know, with the risk of calling it an exception, because I think we could explore that further and I think there would be other issues, is that there is a massive question of when do you restrain what you want for what might be good.

00:09:52.000 That's right.

00:09:53.000 And so let me just ask you a question.

00:09:55.000 I'm just curious.

00:09:56.000 You were at a point where I could not survive as a female in a female costume.

00:10:00.000 Is that there was nothing at your disposal?

00:10:04.000 So I would challenge that from a spiritual and also pragmatic way.

00:10:04.000 Nothing.

00:10:08.000 Again, with the risk of not actually living through that, I refuse to accept the premise the only way that one could deal with it is through castration.

00:10:18.000 Sure.

00:10:18.000 I can understand how you would think that because you don't live it.

00:10:21.000 No, no, for sure.

00:10:22.000 And I guess that's why I said the risk of stepping on that.

00:10:24.000 And again, I don't think every trans person is the same. 1.00

00:10:27.000 They're not.

00:10:28.000 And I'm going to go back to what you said earlier, detransitioning.

00:10:31.000 Okay.

00:10:33.000 Oh, my God. 0.94

00:10:34.000 As a transsexual man, it makes me sick to my stomach to see this.

00:10:37.000 I never thought of that ever.

00:10:40.000 The minute I transitioned, I never looked back and my life only got better.

00:10:44.000 So I start to look at why are young, these are all young women, mostly, right? 0.99

00:10:48.000 So young girls, biological women who have decided to do what I did, right?

00:10:52.000 Which is to take testosterone, masculinize themselves, have top surgery, and then within sometimes six months to a year are like, uh-oh, I made a mistake.

00:11:01.000 I'm going to tell you exactly why that's happening.

00:11:03.000 We have not put mental health care in the equation to transition.

00:11:08.000 So what we have is called self-ID.

00:11:10.000 You could today say, I'm a trans, I'm a woman and I want to transition.

00:11:14.000 You don't have to go to any therapy.

00:11:16.000 You don't have to see a doctor.

00:11:17.000 You can go on the internet and get your hormones and you can happily be on your way.

00:11:21.000 So, but let me ask you, I mean, as someone who's an outspoken member, and I know you say you're not part of the community, but of this decision.

00:11:27.000 Yeah.

00:11:28.000 I mean, don't you think that you have normalized this?

00:11:30.000 Yes.

00:11:32.000 Yes, I have for a reason because there are people like me.

00:11:35.000 Don't think that there are not people.

00:11:37.000 What percentage do you think that is?

00:11:38.000 Very small percentage that are like you.

00:11:40.000 That are like me.

00:11:42.000 That's why I'm sitting here talking about.

00:11:44.000 I'm hearing your nuance.

00:11:44.000 Because I don't think there's as many as we have today.

00:11:47.000 And that's why we have such a huge population of detransitioners. 1.00

00:11:52.000 I saw a group of 25,000.

00:11:54.000 25,000.

00:11:54.000 That's correct.

00:11:54.000 Yes.

00:11:56.000 So, does it concern you, though, that your advocacy over the last couple years?

00:11:59.000 I mean, I guess do you have any regret?

00:12:00.000 You're like, yes, maybe I lured people into this where they didn't really know what they were signing up for.

00:12:05.000 Thank you for saying that.

00:12:06.000 And I really live with that, you know, because I think to myself, did I do something to create the space that we're in now?

00:12:13.000 And then I have to say, no, I did not.

00:12:14.000 If people took my words out of context, that's not my favorite.

00:12:18.000 And you know what?

00:12:18.000 I think that's very fair.

00:12:19.000 You can't hold just an advocate accountable for everything.

00:12:22.000 You judge that to me all the time.

00:12:22.000 Because I'm not sure.

00:12:23.000 Of course.

00:12:24.000 And I truly try to live my life very authentically, if that makes sense.

00:12:27.000 Where I say, look, this is who I am.

00:12:29.000 This has saved my life.

00:12:30.000 I'm a, for lack of a better word, normal person on some level.

00:12:34.000 So what you're saying is that before the actual action of surgery happens, which is very serious, irreversible, you would say you first have to check a lot of boxes of therapy and all this.

00:12:47.000 It shouldn't be easy, on demand, or immediate.

00:12:49.000 No, it should not, my friend.

00:12:50.000 And that is one of the reasons, probably the number one reason we have so many people who are saying, uh-oh, I made a mistake. 0.96

00:12:57.000 Mental, look, I have a mental disorder. 0.91

00:12:59.000 I don't care what anybody says. 0.98

00:13:01.000 I have an actual mental disorder called gender dysphoria.

00:13:04.000 And when you take gender dysphoria off the table, which the trans community has done now and says you don't need dysphoria to be trans, wait a minute.

00:13:12.000 So you don't need cancer to have cancer?

00:13:14.000 Like, what are we doing?

00:13:15.000 But let me ask you one last thing.

00:13:17.000 And so it's just a thought exercise, which is: is the surge, and for you it was, but generally, should it become something that is so exceedingly rare?

00:13:25.000 For example, just because you want something isn't, it isn't always right.

00:13:28.000 So, like someone who has anorexia, you wouldn't give them liposuction.

00:13:33.000 I hope not, right?

00:13:34.000 But they would be demanding it.

00:13:35.000 That's right.

00:13:36.000 That's right.

00:13:36.000 They go to their doctor.

00:13:37.000 I feel fat.

00:13:38.000 Yes.

00:13:38.000 And so sometimes your mind can actually be misleading.

00:13:42.000 That's right.

00:13:43.000 It will be right for your body.

00:13:44.000 That's right.

00:13:44.000 That's mental health right there.

00:13:46.000 So why are we not going to the pinpointing the problem, okay, or the situation of trans is mental health? 0.53

00:13:53.000 No, I think that's right.

00:13:53.000 And if we are not dealing with it as a mental health problem and we're just saying you know who you are, that's what's going to cause the problem right there.

00:14:01.000 I'm just curious.

00:14:02.000 Do you think that if when you were just a biological female, not showing yourself as a male, do you think that if you had therapy and counseling, do you think that would have been potentially helpful before surgery?

00:14:15.000 Or do you think that's open?

00:14:16.000 Well, you know, again, I'm 59 years old, right?

00:14:19.000 So I was different.

00:14:20.000 Different.

00:14:21.000 In the 70s, I grew up in the 60s and 70s.

00:14:24.000 And I was a really, very sad child.

00:14:27.000 I really wanted to be a boy since I was a little kid.

00:14:29.000 My parents raised me as Buck.

00:14:31.000 I was totally a tomboy, right?

00:14:32.000 They called it a tomboy, right?

00:14:34.000 So that being said, no one knew I was a trans kid.

00:14:37.000 And I don't even think there are trans kids.

00:14:39.000 Speaking of kids.

00:14:40.000 Yes.

00:14:43.000 Let's move on to the next question.

00:14:45.000 Do you think schools should teach children about the option to transition to a different sex?

00:14:51.000 Why do you think this is being heavily pushed by some school districts across America?

00:14:56.000 It is really upsetting to me to see stuff like that happen in the school system.

00:15:01.000 Now, again, what age group are we talking about?

00:15:04.000 Elementary school, middle school.

00:15:06.000 Elementary school.

00:15:06.000 Okay, no.

00:15:07.000 I'm just going to say no right there.

00:15:08.000 Elementary school, no.

00:15:09.000 We should not be teaching kids about these things in a system where they're already just kind of growing up and learning things, right?

00:15:16.000 And they need to stay focused.

00:15:17.000 Yeah, kids are going to say they're trans, or they're going to say, I feel like a boy, or I feel like a girl, or I feel like an elephant, or that's very normal behavior for a child.

00:15:25.000 But to all of a sudden say when a child says they're a girl or a boy, do you immediately pinpoint it as trans with no mental health care or no system?

00:15:33.000 Because there's no system to put them through right now.

00:15:35.000 They immediately want to put them on puberty blockers.

00:15:37.000 That's right.

00:15:38.000 So as a person who doesn't believe every child says exactly what that child is feeling or knows, I disagree with that 100% because what you're doing is medicalizing a child from the age of eight years old, which means that child will be medicalized for the rest of their life.

00:15:54.000 So, I'm just curious, which is, you know, you've been an advocate in, or just an outspoken person in this space, is that it seems that your position on this is a vast minority position.

00:16:06.000 Yes.

00:16:07.000 Why do you think that is?

00:16:08.000 Oh, it's difficult.

00:16:09.000 I think because I'm older, and I think because I'm a little more grounded about who and what I am, and I think I went through a lot to get where I'm at.

00:16:16.000 And like I said, there are most definitely young people who feel like I do.

00:16:19.000 I don't doubt that in any way, shape, or form.

00:16:21.000 But I think the equation doesn't equal to what I did, which is which has saved my life, is to give, I'm going to keep going back to the same thing, mental health care.

00:16:30.000 You cannot just take something at face value.

00:16:33.000 Now, adults are doing it all the time.

00:16:34.000 I'm trans and I'm going to transition and I'm going to do.

00:16:37.000 I don't know if we can argue that with an adult.

00:16:39.000 An adult can make their own choice.

00:16:40.000 You know, I think that's, I think, I do think that if you have a 14-year-old that has irreversible surgery, and it is irreversible, by the way.

00:16:47.000 So, there's an argument that says this, an argument that says puberty blockers are irreversible.

00:16:52.000 That's not true.

00:16:53.000 They are reversible or irreversible.

00:16:54.000 They are irreversible.

00:16:56.000 Because you're blocking puberty.

00:16:56.000 I agree.

00:16:56.000 Totally.

00:16:59.000 Every person in the world has puberty, not just trans people. 0.97

00:17:02.000 So once you start blocking puberty, what happens there?

00:17:05.000 Your development, yeah.

00:17:06.000 Okay.

00:17:07.000 Your development.

00:17:07.000 I think we're going to probably have the same points on many things here.

00:17:11.000 Yeah, I mean, look, you self-identified that it is a mental issue.

00:17:16.000 I get, I'll be very honest, attacked mercilessly by people by saying that gender dysphoria is even a thing, right?

00:17:23.000 Okay, that's fine.

00:17:23.000 Sure.

00:17:24.000 And so, but you openly admit that.

00:17:26.000 I guess here's just a general question: is that the trans population is exploding with young people?

00:17:33.000 Does that concern you?

00:17:34.000 Yes, it does.

00:17:36.000 So, of course, we do.

00:17:38.000 Because, look, I don't care if a kid wants to say they're black, blue, green, and L.

00:17:42.000 I don't care.

00:17:42.000 What I care about is medical transition.

00:17:45.000 Okay.

00:17:45.000 And so, what I mean by that is if a kid wants to idea as a trans person and go through school wearing boy clothes and dressing like a boy, go right do it, my friend, because you'll probably grow out of it later on.

00:17:54.000 But when a kid starts going and getting what we call top surgery at 20 years old and starts putting hormones in their body, every piece of that equation is irreversible.

00:18:06.000 Let's say today I decide that I want to go back to living as a woman.

00:18:09.000 Too late. 0.99

00:18:10.000 I'm going to be an ugly woman, first off. 1.00

00:18:13.000 Secondly, what am I going to do with my breasts? 1.00

00:18:14.000 I'm going to have to go get breast implants. 1.00

00:18:17.000 I'm going to have to go through a whole psychological space.

00:18:19.000 I don't even think I would make it, to be honest with you.

00:18:21.000 So, that's what people need to see.

00:18:23.000 And that's why I appreciate you having the conversation with me because just because I'm trans doesn't mean I agree with everything that's going on in the community.

00:18:30.000 So, like, for example, if you were a typical trans activist, which you're not, I would ask the question, what is a man?

00:18:36.000 That's right.

00:18:36.000 And the answer would be whatever I wanted.

00:18:38.000 Right?

00:18:40.000 And your answer is actually, well, no, it's XY chromosome and all that.

00:18:44.000 That's right.

00:18:45.000 Yeah, so I guess, let me ask you a question.

00:18:47.000 Why is it that so many trans youth try to commit suicide?

00:18:50.000 Well, okay, a lot of people try to commit suicide. 0.82

00:18:53.000 So if you're just going to.

00:18:54.000 It is disproportionate, though.

00:18:56.000 Well, I don't know. 0.99

00:18:57.000 In the LGBT community, I can tell you, gay people try to kill themselves at a high level. 1.00

00:19:01.000 Lesbian people try to kill themselves at a high level. 1.00

00:19:03.000 Bisexual people do the same thing. 0.94

00:19:05.000 I don't know if the trans community is actually bigger than the rest of the LGBT community.

00:19:10.000 So I'm going to say that I disagree with that on some level because, again, statistics.

00:19:14.000 Well, where are you getting the statistics from, right?

00:19:16.000 I can show you statistics that probably are different than your statistics.

00:19:19.000 Well, yeah, to be honest, they're actually from transgender advocacy groups.

00:19:22.000 Well, there you go.

00:19:23.000 It's coming from the actual group.

00:19:25.000 What about group?

00:19:26.000 What about a group that doesn't have anything to do with the transgender community?

00:19:29.000 Why don't they do that stuff?

00:19:30.000 So are you implying that the transgender groups have a vested profit interest to make it seem like it's a bigger problem than it is?

00:19:36.000 On some level, yes, I am.

00:19:37.000 100%.

00:19:38.000 And I don't, and I don't.

00:19:39.000 I'm all for being cynical.

00:19:40.000 And I don't disagree.

00:19:42.000 I was suicidal.

00:19:43.000 I tried to commit suicide two times.

00:19:44.000 I was put in a mental hospital.

00:19:46.000 Thank you, my friend.

00:19:47.000 But I'm not saying that it doesn't exist.

00:19:48.000 100% exists.

00:19:50.000 But what I'm also trying to say is just because a kid says they're suicidal does not necessarily mean transitioning them will stop the suicide attempts.

00:19:57.000 No, no, that's exactly right.

00:19:59.000 So that's where I think the other side, whatever side that is, and it's like all this, or the advocates are saying, hold on, if the surgery happens, all the problems will go.

00:20:08.000 But that's not true.

00:20:09.000 I can show you that through D-transitioners. 1.00

00:20:11.000 Read every D-transitioner story.

00:20:13.000 I cry.

00:20:14.000 I actually cry when I read those things.

00:20:16.000 I'm like, how are we letting this happen?

00:20:17.000 It's why I'm sitting in this seat today, because I don't want to see that happen.

00:20:21.000 It saved my life, my friend.

00:20:23.000 I'm here living the most amazing life I've ever lived.

00:20:26.000 That's what I want the world to see.

00:20:28.000 But I did it because I went through a program.

00:20:30.000 I went through a system.

00:20:31.000 I didn't just say I'm trans and I got surgery and I moved on.

00:20:34.000 And look, I'm not one to say you're wrong with that, by the way.

00:20:38.000 If I had a guest here and they said, you know, Charlie, I just decided to only eat carrots and it saved my life.

00:20:42.000 Like, okay, then you know what's best for you, right?

00:20:44.000 I suppose what we're talking about is societal prescriptions and public policy prescriptions.

00:20:49.000 So you would say, like, for example, the law that's being proposed in California that allows sexual reassignment surgery, no parental consent, taxpayer funded, big mistake.

00:20:57.000 Big mistake.

00:20:58.000 Big mistake.

00:20:59.000 And it's not the money, okay?

00:21:01.000 Again, it's not the money for me.

00:21:02.000 It's more the fact that they're not listening to people like myself who are older, more grounded, understand what's happening.

00:21:08.000 Even there are actual trans doctors who are disagreeing with this.

00:21:12.000 But our voices are so low in this space that we don't get heard because then I think, well, what is everybody getting out of this?

00:21:19.000 Why do they want so many people to transition? 0.99

00:21:20.000 So the answer is the pharmaceutical companies make a ton of money on this.

00:21:24.000 Of course.

00:21:24.000 It always comes back to the money.

00:21:25.000 Pfizer and pharmaceutical company make a ton of money on hormone blocks.

00:21:28.000 You know, I read in MarketWatch, which is what a website for stock, right?

00:21:33.000 It actually says in there, invest in trans surgery.

00:21:36.000 It's going to be a $5 billion.

00:21:37.000 Unbelievable to me.

00:21:38.000 I'm like, oh, hold up, people.

00:21:40.000 Wait a minute here.

00:21:41.000 I am not a commodity and I am not that that space. 0.73

00:21:43.000 That is disgusting.

00:21:44.000 We are literally 0.5% of the population.

00:21:48.000 Really, think about that.

00:21:50.000 Trans people are so small. 1.00

00:21:52.000 How are we so powerful in the conversation right now?

00:21:55.000 And how are we saying there are so many trans people?

00:21:58.000 How are we doing this?

00:21:59.000 And why are what's the agenda attached to that?

00:22:01.000 So do you think that do you think more people are then becoming kind of captured into the transgender lifestyle because there is a campaign to recruit them or to persuade them they actually might be transgender?

00:22:14.000 So both.

00:22:14.000 I think on some level, social media plays a huge, huge part.

00:22:18.000 Go just go to TikTok and you can watch youngsters.

00:22:20.000 These are young kids, like 14, 15 years old, having surgeries and dancing around showing it off.

00:22:26.000 We never did that.

00:22:27.000 Where I came from, you hid it on some level and you just want to.

00:22:30.000 Do you think that's better to hide it?

00:22:32.000 Yeah, on some level, because I just want to be a man.

00:22:34.000 I don't want to be, I'm not a trans person. 1.00

00:22:36.000 Like, you're not trying to just be an activist to persuade more people.

00:22:38.000 No, I want to, it's, again, I'm always going to go back to the same thing.

00:22:41.000 It saved my life.

00:22:43.000 I want to be a man and I want to walk the world as a man.

00:22:45.000 That's a transsexual person. 1.00

00:22:47.000 I want to be part of what you're doing, you know, even though I'll never be you.

00:22:51.000 Are there inherent advantages to being a man?

00:22:54.000 Are there inherent advantages to being a woman?

00:22:56.000 And Charlie, I'll let you start.

00:22:59.000 Well, I mean, I think that there's female privilege right now in America, and I've said that for a while.

00:23:04.000 Men are more likely to die at work, more likely to die of drug overdoses, more likely to go to war and die for the country, more likely to commit suicide, more likely to be homeless.

00:23:14.000 Women comprise most college graduates, most master's degrees, most doctorate degrees.

00:23:18.000 Women are less likely to go bankrupt. 1.00

00:23:20.000 They're less likely to die in car accidents.

00:23:22.000 They're less likely to do all these sorts of different things.

00:23:25.000 And we are seeing an emasculation of the American male. 0.85

00:23:28.000 But yeah, there are advantages depending on what your particular skill set, whatever your passion might be.

00:23:35.000 For example, it is just biologically easier to be a laborer as a man than it is a female. 1.00

00:23:41.000 And women are also wired to be nurturers and teachers more so than bricklayers or Marines. 1.00

00:23:50.000 Right.

00:23:50.000 Well, that's true.

00:23:51.000 And I think what you're what you're, but that being said, I lived half my life as a woman.

00:23:56.000 So I have actual experience of living in the world as a woman.

00:23:59.000 And I can say now as a man, holy moly, my life has changed.

00:24:02.000 I get so many different things.

00:24:04.000 I can walk through the door and have a lot more.

00:24:06.000 You're not going to experience that because you were really born into that.

00:24:09.000 You walk into it and you don't ever even see that.

00:24:11.000 So give me an example of that.

00:24:12.000 So I'll give you an example.

00:24:13.000 Let's talk about dinner and we're going out to dinner.

00:24:15.000 And I'm always getting the check now.

00:24:17.000 I never got the check before.

00:24:19.000 You got to pay.

00:24:20.000 I have to pay.

00:24:21.000 That means it's harder to be a man.

00:24:23.000 On some level.

00:24:24.000 So it's more expensive.

00:24:25.000 It's more expensive to be a man.

00:24:27.000 There are different ups and downs.

00:24:29.000 Where's the advantage to that?

00:24:31.000 Well, the advantage for me is that people see me as a man.

00:24:34.000 So it's important that people are.

00:24:35.000 So they expect you to pay for that.

00:24:37.000 They expect me to pay for it.

00:24:38.000 So I pay for that privilege.

00:24:39.000 For me, that's privilege.

00:24:40.000 It means that they see me as a man.

00:24:42.000 You see, that's a big deal for me.

00:24:44.000 Now, going back to the statistics of being male and female, so I think that men, it's easier on some level to walk through the world as a man than it is to walk through the world as a woman.

00:24:53.000 I mean, I can just say for me, it's just easier for me.

00:24:57.000 And I see more advantage and more privilege that I get to just be this male and not be questioned on certain situations.

00:25:03.000 Whereas a woman, I would be pushed to the side or I wouldn't get to have the conversation. 1.00

00:25:08.000 I don't think that's right.

00:25:09.000 Well, I mean, that's okay.

00:25:10.000 You don't have to, and you won't have that same experience that I have.

00:25:13.000 No, that's definitely true.

00:25:14.000 I'll never have that.

00:25:15.000 You'll never have that experience.

00:25:16.000 But does the data compel you based on income levels, graduation, you know, suicide?

00:25:22.000 I think women are definitely being beaten. 1.00

00:25:24.000 They're doing better.

00:25:25.000 100%.

00:25:26.000 There's no doubt about that.

00:25:27.000 We can't argue.

00:25:27.000 Why do you think that is?

00:25:28.000 Well, I think because women are speaking up for themselves. 1.00

00:25:31.000 I think women are speaking up and saying, wait a minute here, we're part of the population. 1.00

00:25:34.000 We should be able to do these kinds of things.

00:25:36.000 And women, I think, before didn't get the opportunity to speak up for themselves. 1.00

00:25:39.000 Where I think now they get to speak up for themselves and men are respecting that.

00:25:43.000 I just want to say that.

00:25:44.000 Sexism goes both ways, right? 1.00

00:25:45.000 Of course.

00:25:45.000 You have to be sex against a woman, but I mean, you look at Family Guy or The Simpsons.

00:25:48.000 What's the archetype when you think of a regular suburban man? 0.93

00:25:51.000 Well, right.

00:25:51.000 Overweight, clumsy, unable to get their thoughts together, sitting at home and drinking beer.

00:25:57.000 But that's not true.

00:25:58.000 No, it's not true.

00:25:59.000 But what's the caricature of most women on television? 1.00

00:26:01.000 Career-oriented, boss babe, private investigator, queen Latifah.

00:26:06.000 You know what I mean?

00:26:07.000 So you kind of like balance those two things.

00:26:09.000 And that plays out in certain ways, which I think is the emasculation, the emasculation of the American male. 0.78

00:26:14.000 Well, on some level, there is that.

00:26:16.000 And because when I transitioned, I wanted to be very hyper-masculine, right?

00:26:20.000 I really went for that masculinity.

00:26:22.000 I really wanted people to see me as that.

00:26:24.000 Why?

00:26:25.000 Why was I so obsessed with being this very masculine sort of space?

00:26:29.000 Which I do agree on some level, we are being attacked as masculine men.

00:26:33.000 I get attacked all the time from the trans community. 0.65

00:26:36.000 You're heteronormative.

00:26:37.000 I don't even know what that means, heteronormative.

00:26:39.000 Or I'm, you know, I guess that I'm playing into this role playing of being a man.

00:26:44.000 But to me, that's not role-playing.

00:26:45.000 To me, it's what I feel the most comfortable being and how I want to walk the world.

00:26:50.000 But I do think masculinity is under attack on some level as a bad thing.

00:26:54.000 And so I don't think masculinity is a bad thing at all.

00:26:56.000 So let me ask you: when you identified as a woman, and I would argue you've never stopped being a woman, but that's not trying to offend you by saying that.

00:27:05.000 Was when you were trying, when you were feminine, were you just unhappy? 0.94

00:27:09.000 Oh, God, I was, you know, and I was very much a very butch woman, right? 0.91

00:27:12.000 And I identified as a gay woman, and I was an athlete, you know, that very stereotypical, athletic, butchy girl. 0.86

00:27:19.000 So I was very unhappy.

00:27:21.000 And because as a child, my parents really did raise me as a boy.

00:27:24.000 They very much were okay with me being a tomboy because pretty much everyone thinks you're going to grow out of it, right?

00:27:29.000 And eventually you'll just be a girl.

00:27:31.000 And so I tried to be a girl.

00:27:32.000 I was a fashion model.

00:27:33.000 I traveled the world as a female fashion model.

00:27:36.000 I did all it just something in my gut just was not there.

00:27:39.000 And I did not feel comfortable when people would say, oh, you're so beautiful.

00:27:42.000 Or, wow, what a great woman you are.

00:27:44.000 I just was like, it just, it just rubbed me the wrong way.

00:27:48.000 It's hard to explain to somebody who doesn't really experience that dysphoric space.

00:27:52.000 Do you think, so let's say that next person exists now, right?

00:27:55.000 Yeah.

00:27:56.000 And do you think that there is the breakthroughs through therapy or psychological that might have prevented you from having to go through?

00:28:03.000 Like, do you think there might have been some repressed childhood issues that could have been possibly addressed versus a surgical issue?

00:28:11.000 Possibly, but you know, I didn't, I didn't do my surgery until my early, late 20s, early 30s.

00:28:16.000 So it wasn't that I was just going into it.

00:28:18.000 I did 10 years of therapy.

00:28:19.000 The world was a lot different.

00:28:21.000 I did 10 years of therapy.

00:28:23.000 So you would go to therapists, and like, I'm not trying to prime your private life, but you would say, look, I think I'm a man.

00:28:28.000 I want to be a man.

00:28:29.000 Yes.

00:28:29.000 And every therapist would say, no, you're not.

00:28:31.000 You're a very masculine woman, every single one, until I finally found a therapist who was brand new. 0.98

00:28:38.000 And I said to her, I sat in that office for five days for five times.

00:28:41.000 I would go there so like scared to say it because I knew they were going to shut me down.

00:28:45.000 Finally, when I said, you know, I feel like a man, and it was like magic.

00:28:50.000 She said to me, I know.

00:28:52.000 And then that she's the one who basically helped me try to figure out how can I live in the world as a man 29 years ago.

00:28:59.000 So I do think on some level, people like me are real.

00:29:02.000 We are.

00:29:03.000 But I also think on some level, there is something today that's happening to push too many people into this space that should not be pushed into this space.

00:29:03.000 Look at me.

00:29:11.000 What are your thoughts on pornography?

00:29:14.000 Does porn desensitize?

00:29:16.000 Should it be banned altogether?

00:29:18.000 Do you believe it has a negative effect on relationships?

00:29:21.000 Is there such a thing as a positive effect to be had by porn consumption in society?

00:29:26.000 And I'm going to let Charlie start with this one. 0.97

00:29:30.000 Yeah, porn is awful. 1.00

00:29:31.000 I mean, it's a poison. 1.00

00:29:32.000 It's arsenic.

00:29:33.000 It's a cancer on society.

00:29:36.000 I do want to give you an opportunity to introduce your background in that if that's okay before I go any further.

00:29:40.000 So yes, I started my career in the pornography business.

00:29:44.000 So I was the very first transsexual man to are you still active in that industry?

00:29:48.000 I produce products now.

00:29:49.000 I don't produce pornography.

00:29:50.000 I produce toys, what we call sex toys, or products that help people kind of connect to their body.

00:29:56.000 Do you have any regret of your time in the pornography industry?

00:29:59.000 No, not at all.

00:30:00.000 Not at all.

00:30:01.000 And so I think here's where we're going to probably have different opinions about that space.

00:30:05.000 I personally, I make adult entertainment.

00:30:07.000 So this is where this is the problem.

00:30:10.000 So in the world now, we have what's called the internet, which screwed up everything, not only pornography, but it gives access where access should not be.

00:30:19.000 And so now kids have access to pornography.

00:30:23.000 And so as an adult, I think as an adult, I should be able to make whatever I make and I should be able to make it for you or whoever wants to watch it.

00:30:29.000 As adults, we're consenting.

00:30:30.000 It's totally, if you don't want to watch it, don't watch it.

00:30:32.000 If you do, you have the opportunity to do that.

00:30:34.000 Now, for me, the problem is kids.

00:30:36.000 And the problem is the youth looking at these things as sex education or as a means in a way to sort of understand how to do things.

00:30:44.000 And I don't agree with that.

00:30:45.000 And I do not think pornography should be accessible to youngsters at all.

00:30:48.000 At all.

00:30:49.000 Do you think it's a moral problem?

00:30:52.000 Moral, I don't think so.

00:30:53.000 What I think is that it's a problem to do with money.

00:30:57.000 Again, it comes back to money.

00:30:58.000 So the more money these places make, they don't have any more morals and they don't have any more space because they're just wanting to make money.

00:31:06.000 And that's really what pornography is about.

00:31:08.000 Pornography is about making money.

00:31:10.000 That's all it is.

00:31:10.000 I'm in that industry.

00:31:11.000 I understand it.

00:31:12.000 It's all about the dollar, nothing else.

00:31:15.000 But you know, what you just said is not realistic.

00:31:17.000 14 and 15 year olds are accessing whatever content you publish.

00:31:20.000 That's what I'm saying.

00:31:21.000 And I don't think that's okay.

00:31:22.000 I do not think that's okay.

00:31:23.000 And I talk to my industry all the time about how can we build a space where children, because 14 and 15 are children, should not be accessing pornography.

00:31:32.000 But like, let's say even 19 year olds.

00:31:33.000 That's still, to me, a child on some level, but it's not.

00:31:36.000 They're an adult.

00:31:37.000 They're an adult.

00:31:38.000 They can make their own choices.

00:31:39.000 Look, and I'm gonna, but I'm gonna be very honest. 0.99

00:31:41.000 Like with someone who's actually struggled with watching pornography before, like the fact you worked in the pornography industry, I look at you as like a sexual drug dealer. 0.98

00:31:50.000 That's okay. 0.98

00:31:51.000 Yeah, I see.

00:31:52.000 Like you're producing content that will kill people.

00:31:55.000 Well, I don't agree with that.

00:31:56.000 Depression, isolation.

00:31:58.000 They probably already had depression and isolation prior to the pornography.

00:32:01.000 Look, I'm going to say this as like from a personal perspective, it destroys lives.

00:32:06.000 It does.

00:32:06.000 Well, yeah, so do a lot of things.

00:32:08.000 So does alcohol.

00:32:09.000 So do cigarettes.

00:32:10.000 But this is a very particular.

00:32:12.000 Let's just focus on this, right?

00:32:14.000 So, but you go into it knowing that the people that we be consuming it will be less likely to be faithful to their wives.

00:32:20.000 That's not true.

00:32:21.000 That is not true.

00:32:22.000 That absolutely is true.

00:32:23.000 The stats around pornography are unbelievable.

00:32:25.000 But I can show you stats that show that's not true.

00:32:27.000 Number one, number two, those people already have that inside of them.

00:32:30.000 So I know many people who consume porn who have no issues at all and are perfectly no issues that you know, but this goes back to should you do what you feel is right.

00:32:38.000 And the answer is no.

00:32:39.000 If you're an adult, I think you should be able to make choices that really reflect to your own space, right?

00:32:44.000 So that's why I said transitioning. 0.87

00:32:46.000 If you're an adult who's transitioning, I'm going to tell you you should slow down a little bit and you should take your time. 1.00

00:32:51.000 But as an adult, that's all I can say to you as an adult.

00:32:53.000 So you think if an adult is addicted to pornography, no problem.

00:32:57.000 Well, addiction again.

00:32:58.000 So that word addiction really is very powerful and it can mean a lot of things.

00:33:02.000 What does it addiction means you're going on there 24-7 and you're looking at it and you can't get off and once a day, twice a day, 500.

00:33:09.000 So that being said, how many people within that space, and is it men?

00:33:14.000 Is it women? 1.00

00:33:15.000 When you shoot the film, you know it could ruin a 16-year-old's life.

00:33:17.000 Well, I don't think it's a good idea.

00:33:18.000 It's like when you create a fentanyl pill, you know it could kill somebody.

00:33:20.000 Well, that is a whole other argument.

00:33:23.000 That being said, no, I don't think that when I make pornography.

00:33:25.000 I've had so many people tell me, thank you.

00:33:27.000 So, wait, hold on.

00:33:28.000 Yeah.

00:33:29.000 What good does making pornography do?

00:33:30.000 Like, what?

00:33:31.000 Yeah, that's a great question.

00:33:32.000 So, for myself, I can only speak about my own work.

00:33:35.000 For myself, what I did is I created a space to celebrate my body sexually.

00:33:39.000 I was not sexually connected to my body, which is hurtful for me.

00:33:42.000 And I could not have relationships.

00:33:44.000 I could not do any of that.

00:33:45.000 The pornography actually helped me connect to my body, make me feel very handsome or beautiful in my body and felt needed in my body.

00:33:53.000 I have lots of trans people and outside of the trans community tell me, thank you for your work.

00:33:56.000 It really validates me. 0.77

00:33:58.000 We quickly went from you had to have surgery to survive to now you had to have sex on camera to survive.

00:34:03.000 No, it wasn't for survival.

00:34:04.000 You said happiness.

00:34:05.000 I didn't say survival.

00:34:06.000 I said, no, it made me feel better about myself and it made other people feel better about themselves.

00:34:11.000 So the thing is, this, you have the opportunity to watch porn or not watch porn.

00:34:15.000 That's how I look at it.

00:34:17.000 Sort of.

00:34:17.000 Yes, of course.

00:34:18.000 But when you're 17 and you get addicted to something from an industry that's a mistake or 18 or 19 or 20 or married couples that get targeted with these things.

00:34:28.000 Yes.

00:34:28.000 And I get the thousands of emails from our listeners of young men that are struggling with these things.

00:34:32.000 They struggle.

00:34:32.000 I know.

00:34:33.000 Millions.

00:34:33.000 But it's the industry that normalizes.

00:34:36.000 And the numbers are unbelievable.

00:34:38.000 Well, that's, but why?

00:34:40.000 But why?

00:34:41.000 Because we've normalized pornography because people produce the film.

00:34:44.000 Not only that, but there's something innate inside of us that wants to see sexual images.

00:34:49.000 Right.

00:34:49.000 That's that's a real thing.

00:34:50.000 We shouldn't do everything we want to do.

00:34:53.000 Okay, right.

00:34:54.000 That was good.

00:34:55.000 I'll give you that one.

00:34:57.000 Right?

00:34:57.000 So, so, so, do you know what we call civilization?

00:35:00.000 Restraining ourselves from doing the things we always want to do.

00:35:03.000 Okay, that's fair.

00:35:04.000 That's what civilization does.

00:35:05.000 But at the same time, pornography makes some people happy.

00:35:07.000 Now, it doesn't make everyone happy.

00:35:08.000 It makes them happy.

00:35:09.000 No, I'm going to disagree with you.

00:35:10.000 So, let me ask you a question.

00:35:11.000 Yeah.

00:35:12.000 Are heroin addicts happy?

00:35:14.000 Yeah, I know some heroin addicts who are totally happy.

00:35:16.000 100%.

00:35:17.000 Yes, I do.

00:35:18.000 They totally know what they do.

00:35:19.000 They use the drug.

00:35:20.000 They're totally functioning.

00:35:21.000 They move forward.

00:35:22.000 I don't agree with it, but they do it.

00:35:25.000 They love it.

00:35:25.000 They're totally.

00:35:26.000 I think the vast majority of heroin addicts.

00:35:28.000 Not the vast majority of heroics.

00:35:29.000 So that's good.

00:35:30.000 Now we're talking vast majority of heroin addicts.

00:35:32.000 Are totally slung out on the street.

00:35:34.000 Horrible, horrible.

00:35:35.000 Heroin and pornography attack the brain exactly the same.

00:35:38.000 Same dopamine manipulation.

00:35:40.000 Yeah, okay.

00:35:41.000 Same fake rushes of endorphins.

00:35:42.000 Endorphins.

00:35:43.000 So it's the same sort of rush to have to find something more extreme.

00:35:46.000 So does fitness.

00:35:47.000 Fitness does the same thing.

00:35:48.000 So you're going to the gym every day.

00:35:49.000 I'm like, the difference is you get healthier.

00:35:52.000 That's not necessarily true.

00:35:53.000 No, you know, uh-uh, that's not true at all.

00:35:55.000 You're making an argument that going to the gym as harmful as no, because you asked me heroin, then pornography, and now I'm using fitness as a dopamine.

00:36:03.000 When something is giving you that dopamine runch, you can't do that.

00:36:05.000 That's not a healthy dopamine rush.

00:36:07.000 No, because then you start using steroids and then you start trying to make yourself that much bigger.

00:36:11.000 Let's talk in world reality.

00:36:13.000 Yeah.

00:36:13.000 Do you really think America has a fitness addiction problem?

00:36:16.000 Oh my God, of course they do.

00:36:17.000 You think we have a bigger fitness addiction problem?

00:36:19.000 No, not bigger.

00:36:19.000 That's not what I said.

00:36:20.000 It's not even in the same universe.

00:36:21.000 It is a definite problem.

00:36:22.000 I think people do become close.

00:36:25.000 But that being said, I disagree with you on the point.

00:36:27.000 We have an obesity problem in our country.

00:36:29.000 We don't have a cross-country.

00:36:30.000 It doesn't mean those people aren't going to the gym.

00:36:32.000 Okay, again.

00:36:33.000 But I'm asking you: so, the argument you're making, pornography can make people happy in the moment, therefore moral good.

00:36:40.000 Well, my morals and your morals could be different.

00:36:43.000 Morals aren't just moral.

00:36:45.000 Everyone's moral.

00:36:45.000 No, of course they are.

00:36:46.000 Yeah, that's that's we have different morals.

00:36:48.000 No, no, no.

00:36:48.000 Hold up.

00:36:49.000 No, we don't.

00:36:50.000 Well, I'll prove it to you.

00:36:51.000 Want me to prove it to you?

00:36:52.000 Okay, sure.

00:36:52.000 You don't think kids should watch pornography?

00:36:54.000 No, I don't think kids should.

00:36:55.000 Why?

00:36:56.000 Because I don't think it's for children.

00:36:58.000 Why?

00:36:58.000 Because I think that children need to learn about sex through a way that is.

00:37:02.000 Why protect children?

00:37:02.000 They're humans.

00:37:04.000 Well, because children need guidance.

00:37:06.000 Why do you say that?

00:37:07.000 Where do you go to?

00:37:07.000 Because I'm a parent.

00:37:08.000 There you go.

00:37:09.000 That's where your morality comes from.

00:37:10.000 That's right.

00:37:10.000 Material reality.

00:37:11.000 But it doesn't mean that we have the same morals on everything else.

00:37:13.000 My point is: this is that we actually accept very similar types of moral premises.

00:37:18.000 We do.

00:37:18.000 Yes.

00:37:19.000 Objective truth.

00:37:20.000 Yes.

00:37:20.000 And guess what?

00:37:21.000 Showing people having sexual intercourse is really bad for people in society. 0.92

00:37:27.000 It just is.

00:37:28.000 Well, that's because you had a bad experience, but I don't know.

00:37:30.000 Not just me.

00:37:31.000 But I don't have a bad experience with it.

00:37:33.000 82% of young men are addicted to pornography.

00:37:36.000 But why is it men and not women? 0.73

00:37:37.000 But there's a fair amount of women as well. 1.00

00:37:39.000 But nowhere near the amount of kids.

00:37:40.000 If I have to dive into it, men have higher testosterone.

00:37:43.000 They look at sexual engagement. 0.96

00:37:47.000 But also, men are actually okay with watching porn or having sex because we're taught as men. 0.99

00:37:52.000 Men are taught to be much more promiscuous, much more open around sex. 0.99

00:37:56.000 Women are not taught that. 1.00

00:37:57.000 Women are taught not to talk about sex. 0.99

00:37:59.000 Women are taught not to masturbate. 1.00

00:38:00.000 Women are taught all the things that you as a man are taught, that it's okay to be sexual, that it's okay to do these things. 1.00

00:38:06.000 So that's why I think porn is more pinpointed towards men than it is to women.

00:38:10.000 They make porn for men.

00:38:12.000 Let me ask you a question.

00:38:12.000 You don't think men are biologically more predisposed to want to see visual stimulation versus testosterone for sure because mine changes.

00:38:19.000 It's biology.

00:38:20.000 Well, no, it's also testosterone because mine did change through testosterone.

00:38:23.000 The way I look at things, the way I'm doing it.

00:38:25.000 Women are not stimulated as much by that. 1.00

00:38:28.000 That's pornography. 0.96

00:38:29.000 But also, women are also not actually told that it's okay to watch these kinds of things.

00:38:33.000 Women watching porn is on the increase tremendously. 0.91

00:38:36.000 That's because they're making more porn for women. 1.00

00:38:38.000 Which is destructive to society in more ways.

00:38:41.000 Let me read some of these numbers.

00:38:42.000 Okay.

00:38:43.000 So depression and suicide.

00:38:44.000 Okay.

00:38:45.000 17% of sex addicts attempt suicide at some point in their life.

00:38:48.000 Okay.

00:38:48.000 Okay.

00:38:49.000 17%.

00:38:50.000 Depression ratios when respondents began watching porn was in the single digits.

00:38:54.000 It triples after they start watching porn.

00:38:56.000 A 2017 experiment showed that 14% of male students who watch porn more than three times a week reported depression.

00:39:03.000 Meanwhile, 2.8% of students who watch porn less than once a week experience depression.

00:39:08.000 That's a multiple chasm, huge.

00:39:10.000 And let me tell you why.

00:39:11.000 We know this in the biochemical literature.

00:39:13.000 Neurologically, when you start to all of a sudden addict yourself to a fake endorphin rush, which is pornography is so graphic, it's so real, you're going to want more.

00:39:21.000 It's the same as a heroin ad.

00:39:23.000 Do you know the problem though? Is with porn, it's so abundant that you can go deeper and deeper and deeper.

00:39:28.000 And next thing you know, it takes three hours for you to just get a little bit of stimulation.

00:39:32.000 That's true.

00:39:32.000 Which creates worse marriages, weaker families.

00:39:37.000 And you say you're a parent.

00:39:38.000 I mean, I don't know how old your kid is, but I can't imagine you would want the kid.

00:39:43.000 My kid doesn't know anything about that.

00:39:44.000 And I would never let my kid know.

00:39:45.000 That's what I said to you.

00:39:46.000 There are boundaries around children for.

00:39:48.000 But even when they're an adult, you don't think it would do damage to them?

00:39:50.000 No, I don't actually, because I have a healthy attitude towards it, I think.

00:39:53.000 I have a different attitude than other people do.

00:39:56.000 And I do think it's healthy to talk about sex.

00:39:58.000 And I do think it's healthy on some level not to get addicted to porn, but to even see the pornography.

00:40:03.000 I don't think that's a bad thing.

00:40:05.000 The addiction is the bad thing.

00:40:06.000 So you don't think sex should be sacred in private between two people?

00:40:09.000 Not necessarily.

00:40:10.000 Not necessarily so.

00:40:12.000 I think that people as adults can make their own choices.

00:40:14.000 No, no, no, no, that's not the point.

00:40:15.000 That's a different question.

00:40:16.000 In the ideal, should sex be sacred and private?

00:40:18.000 No, I don't think so.

00:40:20.000 Why?

00:40:20.000 Because I think that it's a fun thing, and I think that you can.

00:40:22.000 Oh, so we should do sex is fun.

00:40:24.000 We should do fun things. 0.70

00:40:25.000 No, trust me, I'm married.

00:40:26.000 I got that. 0.94

00:40:27.000 Sex is.

00:40:27.000 But the point is that we should do what's fun.

00:40:30.000 Well, we should do what makes us happy.

00:40:32.000 Should we?

00:40:32.000 Of course, when it comes to sex.

00:40:34.000 We should do what's right.

00:40:35.000 Well, what's right to you is going to be different than what's right for me.

00:40:38.000 So, why do we have speed zones outside schools? 0.59

00:40:41.000 We're talking about porn and sex.

00:40:42.000 Let me tell you why. 0.97

00:40:43.000 No.

00:40:43.000 Because we want to protect kids.

00:40:44.000 We're talking about sex right now.

00:40:46.000 We're talking about speed limits.

00:40:47.000 No, no, no, this is important because there's only one truth.

00:40:50.000 There's not my truth or your truth.

00:40:52.000 Whose truth is it?

00:40:53.000 It's the truth of the laws of nature and nature is God.

00:40:57.000 The natural law.

00:40:58.000 For example, force equals mass times acceleration, right?

00:41:02.000 And an object at rest will stay at rest.

00:41:04.000 For every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction.

00:41:06.000 So there's a certain hardwiring to the universe.

00:41:08.000 You can't escape it.

00:41:09.000 It's part of being reality.

00:41:12.000 Sex is a natural space.

00:41:14.000 It is actually something people enjoy doing as two people coming together.

00:41:18.000 It is not just about procreation.

00:41:20.000 In the ideal, that sexual engagement should be protected and conserved and should be sacred.

00:41:26.000 So let me ask you a question: things that are beautiful, should we make them everywhere always and dilute it or protect it for when it's most sacred?

00:41:34.000 That's just a general moral question.

00:41:36.000 Well, that just depends on what it is you're talking about.

00:41:38.000 I don't think you can say that as a blanket statement.

00:41:40.000 Of course, you can.

00:41:41.000 Well, I don't think so.

00:41:42.000 I disagree with that.

00:41:43.000 So, for example, right?

00:41:45.000 So, if sex is everywhere, doesn't it start to lose its meaning?

00:41:48.000 No, I don't think that's true at all.

00:41:49.000 You don't think so?

00:41:50.000 I think everyone goes into sex with a different attitude and a different way of being.

00:41:54.000 I don't believe everyone goes into sex as it's for this, this, this, or this. 0.97

00:41:59.000 And I think the same with masturbation. 0.97

00:42:00.000 People masturbate for different kinds of reasons. 0.97

00:42:02.000 People have sexual encounters for different kinds. 0.88

00:42:05.000 People cheat on their wives, cheat on their husbands for different reasons.

00:42:07.000 What use that word cheat?

00:42:08.000 Is there something wrong with being unfaithful to your spouse?

00:42:11.000 If it is not within the system of you and your spouse.

00:42:16.000 So, if you and your spouse say, We have an open relationship and I can go and have sex with whoever I want, that's between you and your partner.

00:42:23.000 Right, but I'm talking about generally more.

00:42:25.000 No, cheating, I don't believe in that because you're lying to your partner, and I don't believe in lying and deceit.

00:42:29.000 Do you think pornography makes cheating more abundant or less abundant?

00:42:33.000 No, I think that, again, it depends on the person, and it depends on the person going at the porn.

00:42:37.000 I don't think you can blame porn for all the problems in the world.

00:42:40.000 I'm saying that.

00:42:40.000 But I'm saying that yes is a drug to some people.

00:42:44.000 To tens of millions, the vast consumers.

00:42:47.000 But not to me.

00:42:47.000 It does not hold me that way.

00:42:49.000 It does not control the way I think.

00:42:50.000 It does not look at.

00:42:51.000 I'll be honest, it's your livelihood, though.

00:42:54.000 Well, not anymore, but it was.

00:42:56.000 You made money off it.

00:42:57.000 Yeah, I did make money off it.

00:42:58.000 It's a business.

00:42:59.000 It's an actual business.

00:43:00.000 It defined you.

00:43:01.000 On some level, it did.

00:43:02.000 Yeah, that's how I started my career for sure.

00:43:04.000 Okay, so the predation of potential people that are innocent.

00:43:08.000 So you know making those films that someone who is innocent could lose that innocence in that moment.

00:43:15.000 But what is innocence?

00:43:16.000 That's a good question.

00:43:17.000 What is it?

00:43:17.000 You know what innocence is?

00:43:18.000 You're a nine-year-old not knowing what porn is. 0.62

00:43:18.000 No. 0.62

00:43:20.000 That's what innocence is.

00:43:21.000 Well, that's true.

00:43:22.000 So that's why I don't make pornography for nine-year-olds.

00:43:24.000 It doesn't matter.

00:43:25.000 You know, it still seeps down to the middle.

00:43:26.000 No, it does not.

00:43:27.000 That's not true.

00:43:29.000 Well, maybe not nine-year-olds, 12-year-olds, 13-year-olds, 14-year-olds.

00:43:31.000 And whose fault is that?

00:43:32.000 Is that actually my fault?

00:43:34.000 It's the government's fault.

00:43:35.000 It's a lot of fault.

00:43:36.000 It's a lot.

00:43:36.000 The system.

00:43:38.000 If a magic wand was waved and all of a sudden all the pornography production was outlawed, you would have a lot harder time as a 14-year-old.

00:43:45.000 Oh, but the problem with outlawing pornography is what happens?

00:43:48.000 It goes underground.

00:43:50.000 And it's harder to find.

00:43:51.000 No, it is not harder to find.

00:43:53.000 That is actually not true.

00:43:54.000 Look at drugs.

00:43:55.000 You can actually go on the internet and buy drugs, heroin, cocaine, for NDA, all of it.

00:44:01.000 You can actually get it, even though those are illegal.

00:44:03.000 Drug rates have gone up the more decriminalization has happened in San Francisco.

00:44:06.000 That's, I believe, do you believe the government should ban porn?

00:44:12.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:44:13.000 100%.

00:44:13.000 No, I don't.

00:44:15.000 Yeah, I mean, look, the society is falling apart.

00:44:19.000 Children are being preyed on every day.

00:44:21.000 It should, I mean, a middle ground should be behind age-authenticated, password-protected, credit card authorized, 25 years or older.

00:44:31.000 Extremely hard to find ways to get to it.

00:44:34.000 But that's not realistic.

00:44:35.000 It's not going to pass anytime soon.

00:44:38.000 But it's just a broader moral question of something that is so graphic, that is so predatory, and quite honestly, so harmful to humanity.

00:44:48.000 If we're not, as a society, willing to use our collective power to try and stop that, then I think it explains a lot of our other societal ills.

00:44:58.000 Well, yeah, I think everything is about money now.

00:45:01.000 So, you know, of course, if it's making money, the government is not going to get involved and stop it.

00:45:04.000 It's the same that's happening with trans stuff. 0.97

00:45:06.000 It's making money.

00:45:07.000 They're not going to stop it.

00:45:08.000 Money is what runs this country and pretty much the world.

00:45:12.000 So if you look at things, what's going to make money, people are not going to stop it.

00:45:15.000 Now, I definitely have a space where I'm telling you, I don't believe that pornography should be so accessible.

00:45:21.000 This is a problem I have as a person in that industry.

00:45:23.000 It's too accessible.

00:45:25.000 And so we, as a community in my business, need to understand that.

00:45:29.000 And we need to step up and be much more responsible for the way we are putting that out there.

00:45:34.000 So on some level, I'm a conservative pornographer where I do believe it's too accessible on many levels.

00:45:40.000 And how do we stop it from being so accessible?

00:45:43.000 There are people out there who don't care, who just go in the back room and make all kinds of nonsense and put it out on the internet.

00:45:48.000 So that I have to fight against those kinds of things.

00:45:51.000 So I'm like in a really, really weird space where I do believe in pornography as a positive space.

00:45:56.000 But at the same time, there are bad people in my business who are doing things that are hurting people and are not positive.

00:46:02.000 So, you know, I'm in a, I'm in a weird, and it's the same way I feel about the trans world. 0.94

00:46:06.000 I'm in a very weird space there where I do believe there are real transactions.

00:46:10.000 It's like saying, you know, I'm going to keep on bringing heroin across the southern border, but I only want people that need it clearly.

00:46:15.000 Yeah, maybe you can look at it.

00:46:16.000 You know that all of a sudden a 14-year-old who broke his back is going to use the heroin and to try as a pain supplement.

00:46:22.000 Possible, yeah, possible.

00:46:23.000 Yeah, and so it's, it's that's what I'm saying.

00:46:26.000 I'm in a very weird space because as a person, I do believe pornography can be positive.

00:46:30.000 I also believe it can be negative.

00:46:32.000 I'm still, you're going to have to build out that argument.

00:46:35.000 Well, I don't know if we'll ever get there.

00:46:37.000 How can the filming of something that is so sacred and special and the widespread of it somehow not do damage to the brain of the recipient?

00:46:45.000 Well, the people I know who watch my pornography don't feel that way.

00:46:49.000 So I don't really know how to answer that.

00:46:50.000 The pornography you're watching and the things that you are talking about are not the same.

00:46:54.000 Hopefully that's and I could say people that are healed from that.

00:46:57.000 That's right.

00:46:58.000 And I'll be very honest.

00:46:59.000 I have a very hard time, and you're a nice person and all this.

00:47:02.000 I have a very hard time being okay with people in the quote-unquote industry.

00:47:07.000 Sure.

00:47:07.000 That have done that kind of business.

00:47:10.000 And that's okay.

00:47:11.000 I don't take offense to it at all, my friend.

00:47:13.000 You're totally entitled to have that opinion.

00:47:14.000 I disagree with you, and I will continue to do what I do.

00:47:17.000 And that's why we sit here because you have a different opinion about what I do in the world.

00:47:21.000 And that's okay.

00:47:23.000 I'm not fearful of it.

00:47:24.000 And nor do I angry at it or do I feel in any way disrespected.

00:47:28.000 I don't.

00:47:29.000 Because I actually value your opinion and I value the fact that that's how you think about it.

00:47:33.000 Because what that does is it makes me think about it.

00:47:36.000 So, I'm going to think about it in a different way now.

00:47:38.000 So, I'll summarize.

00:47:38.000 It doesn't necessarily mean I'm going to stop.

00:47:40.000 But restraining our impulses is what keeps civilization together.

00:47:46.000 We don't always get to do what we want to do.

00:47:48.000 That's true.

00:47:49.000 So, for example, I'd love to sleep 14 hours a day.

00:47:51.000 I'm hardwired for it.

00:47:52.000 Sure, me too.

00:47:53.000 But I got to get up six, seven hours.

00:47:55.000 That's right.

00:47:55.000 I'd love to eat chocolate cake every day and all that.

00:47:57.000 Can't do that.

00:47:58.000 That's right.

00:47:59.000 So, do you want to take chocolate cake off the table that no one can have it?

00:48:02.000 Is that what you want to do?

00:48:03.000 Well, I would definitely be open to trying to make America eat much healthier, but I don't think chocolate cake comes anywhere near to the sort of visceral chemical blitzkrieg that is actually.

00:48:13.000 But that's your experience with it, which is horrible.

00:48:15.000 It's not.

00:48:16.000 The data shows it's tens of millions of people.

00:48:18.000 If you talk to an average young man out there in an honest set of people, they will say they are depressed or anxious or suicidal, but they're not the number one feeling after watching pornography done by any psychological data is what?

00:48:30.000 Regret and shame.

00:48:32.000 People actually.

00:48:33.000 Why is that?

00:48:33.000 Why do you think?

00:48:34.000 Maybe because they shouldn't be doing it.

00:48:36.000 They know it.

00:48:37.000 Are they being told that?

00:48:38.000 Maybe deep in the human soul, they know what they just saw in their consumption.

00:48:42.000 But I don't feel that way when I watch it.

00:48:44.000 And many of my other friends and people that I know don't feel that way.

00:48:48.000 You got your own way of looking at the world, but that's what I'm saying.

00:48:50.000 So the vast majority of way of people, the vast majority of people, though, feel that kind of shame.

00:48:54.000 The people you know and the people you're around feel that way, which is.

00:48:56.000 Well, the clinical data shows that.

00:48:58.000 And that's okay.

00:48:59.000 That's what I'm saying.

00:49:00.000 Not everyone feels that way about pornography.

00:49:02.000 Not everyone thinks it should be taken out.

00:49:04.000 What we need to do is come to a space to understand why is it doing it to these young men?

00:49:08.000 It's true.

00:49:09.000 Most, they tried to do a study and they couldn't even do the study because all the guys had already watched porn.

00:49:15.000 So they couldn't even do a study on, that's right.

00:49:17.000 So I know that.

00:49:18.000 I'm very understanding that.

00:49:19.000 It attacks the gray matter in your brain.

00:49:21.000 Why is it so much that way towards young men and men?

00:49:25.000 Why do they feel this need to watch porn?

00:49:27.000 And because it's accessible?

00:49:28.000 Is that hardwired to try to look for visual stimulation?

00:49:31.000 Visual stimulation.

00:49:32.000 And it's accessible.

00:49:33.000 And also, they haven't been taught that it's wrong.

00:49:35.000 That it's wrong.

00:49:36.000 So there's.

00:49:37.000 Because it is wrong.

00:49:38.000 Well, I don't know if it's wrong.

00:49:40.000 You almost agree with me.

00:49:43.000 Right, And this gets into this.

00:49:46.000 Charlie, in recent months, you have popularized the phrase sexual anarchy.

00:49:50.000 Yes.

00:49:51.000 First, could you define that for the audience and then explain the impact it has on our society?

00:49:56.000 Yeah, so I coined the phrase sexual anarchy and actually from my friend Pastor David Engelhardt.

00:50:02.000 Yeah, look, it's sexual activity without restraints.

00:50:06.000 So the law, as we know it, and that's a bad term, but let's say rules, okay, is actually what keeps us free.

00:50:13.000 And so you know alcoholics.

00:50:15.000 I know alcoholics.

00:50:16.000 They're hardly free.

00:50:17.000 They do whatever they want to do whenever they're going to do it.

00:50:19.000 They might be fun, to use your term, but they're hardly free.

00:50:22.000 They become a victim to those vices and devices.

00:50:24.000 The same, I would argue, is in the sexual realm.

00:50:26.000 And I'm not trying to be a moralist by any means.

00:50:28.000 I admitted, you know, how this sort of nonsense damages young people and damaged me.

00:50:34.000 But I will say, though, on a very serious and real level, that if a society all of a sudden says we're not going to have virtuous or moral guardrails, then we become more depressed, unhappier, more anxious, more medicated, and more alcohol-addicted.

00:50:47.000 And so that's kind of a catch-all term for basically people saying, do whatever you want to do in the sexual domain.

00:50:54.000 And I'll go back.

00:50:56.000 It robs the innocence of children, which you do have a soft spot for, based on your commentary.

00:51:01.000 But more than anything else, I think it creates a society that decays from within, one that cannot control its sexual impulses.

00:51:10.000 You know, again, maybe.

00:51:11.000 I'm not really sure about that because I think we have a different experience.

00:51:15.000 So my experience is totally different than your experience around pornography.

00:51:18.000 And it probably because I'm around it more or the people that I'm around have a healthy experience with it.

00:51:24.000 So maybe we need to start talking about sex in a more healthy way.

00:51:27.000 Not pornography, but sex. 0.84

00:51:29.000 Because sex is natural. 0.98

00:51:31.000 Sex is something people actually do. 0.97

00:51:32.000 It is natural, but so it's an impulse, and sex should be saved for one person in marriage. 0.95

00:51:38.000 But that's your own moral way of being.

00:51:40.000 Not everyone feels that way.

00:51:42.000 It doesn't matter how they feel.

00:51:44.000 It's the ideal.

00:51:45.000 It's true.

00:51:46.000 But where does that come from?

00:51:47.000 Where are your morals coming from?

00:51:48.000 The laws of nature and nature is God.

00:51:50.000 It's the ideal.

00:51:50.000 Who is God?

00:51:51.000 Is that a Christian God? 0.98

00:51:52.000 Is it a Jewish person?

00:51:53.000 I believe in a Christian in the Christian.

00:51:55.000 Okay, so that's in the moral space of Christianity.

00:51:57.000 Well, it's objectively true.

00:51:59.000 I don't want to go too far in the spiritual domain, but let's just kind of ask this question, which is: do you think in the ideal, a monogamous heterosexual relationship is the ideal?

00:52:09.000 No, I don't.

00:52:11.000 What's ideal then?

00:52:13.000 Whatever makes whatever kind of relationship is ideal.

00:52:16.000 So that being said, I don't necessarily believe all heterosexual relationships are the be end-all.

00:52:22.000 What about gay relationships?

00:52:23.000 It's not ideal.

00:52:24.000 But I have a lot of great gay friends.

00:52:26.000 It's not ideal.

00:52:27.000 But it is ideal to me.

00:52:28.000 And what about my relationship?

00:52:29.000 I'm a biological woman who lives as a man who has an actual biological woman wife and a biological child.

00:52:36.000 Respectfully not ideal.

00:52:37.000 But that's right.

00:52:38.000 That's see what I mean?

00:52:39.000 That's your idea, but my idea is different than yours.

00:52:41.000 But I think you could look, and you know this deep down.

00:52:43.000 You know it's true.

00:52:44.000 Objectively, if a society does not have marriages that are between men and women and having children out of those marriages, that society will unravel and cease to exist.

00:52:54.000 Well, I mean, again, that's not, that's possible in your space, but I think looking outside of your space, there are so many different ways of being that don't necessarily in your eyes.

00:53:06.000 In the eyes.

00:53:07.000 I know, because the eyes are yelling.

00:53:09.000 Let me ask you a question.

00:53:10.000 Is there a such thing as absolute truth?

00:53:13.000 Not, that's a difficult question for me to answer because I'm not really sure.

00:53:17.000 Yes or no?

00:53:18.000 No.

00:53:18.000 Do you believe that absolutely?

00:53:20.000 Yes.

00:53:21.000 Then you do believe in absolute truth.

00:53:23.000 So it's a trick question.

00:53:25.000 Right on.

00:53:26.000 No, but I don't believe in absolute truth.

00:53:27.000 So you absolutely believe there's no absolute truth.

00:53:30.000 So I think things, things, there's a nuance there, my friend.

00:53:34.000 I think there's a nuance in everything.

00:53:35.000 And I think that we're missing that.

00:53:37.000 But there's some things that are.

00:53:38.000 So, for example, you believe murder is wrong.

00:53:40.000 You believe that.

00:53:40.000 Of course.

00:53:41.000 Of course.

00:53:41.000 Okay.

00:53:41.000 Of course.

00:53:42.000 And wait, let's just look at murder.

00:53:44.000 What if you murdered somebody because you were going to save your life?

00:53:48.000 So, you know, is that murder?

00:53:49.000 That's killing, not murder.

00:53:50.000 Okay, see, so there you go.

00:53:51.000 Now you just change the differences.

00:53:53.000 No, no, no.

00:53:53.000 Murder is very simple.

00:53:54.000 Murder is taking the life of an innocent for no good.

00:53:56.000 That's the definition of murder and the definition of killing.

00:54:00.000 Of course.

00:54:00.000 Okay.

00:54:00.000 So if someone tried to come in and tried to murder me and I killed them, that would be killing, not murder.

00:54:06.000 Murder would be there's someone in their house. 0.99

00:54:07.000 I don't like them. 0.96

00:54:08.000 I want to take them out.

00:54:09.000 They never did anything.

00:54:10.000 So it's a different intention.

00:54:11.000 So yes.

00:54:12.000 But that's not nuance.

00:54:12.000 That's just separate.

00:54:13.000 No, no, no, that's a separate definition.

00:54:15.000 You don't believe.

00:54:16.000 No, no, no, no.

00:54:16.000 Of course, you don't believe in murder, right?

00:54:18.000 Yeah, and you believe in telling the truth, right?

00:54:20.000 Whatever the truth is.

00:54:21.000 Everyone's truth is different.

00:54:22.000 Is it?

00:54:23.000 I think so.

00:54:24.000 So, I mean, like, can you make up your own physical?

00:54:27.000 We're talking about physics, right?

00:54:28.000 Like, you can't make up your own material truth.

00:54:30.000 You can't be like, driving on the 405 laws of gravity or suspended.

00:54:33.000 I would love that.

00:54:34.000 Right.

00:54:34.000 Right?

00:54:34.000 But my truth is that.

00:54:35.000 But it must be anchored to some absolute truth.

00:54:37.000 You have to be.

00:54:38.000 Well, of course.

00:54:39.000 Now, now looking at it like that, when you explained it, I understand that.

00:54:41.000 But at the same time, outside of that, my absolute truth around marriage or that might be different than your absolute truth around marriage.

00:54:48.000 No, no, it might be, but the question is, what is right?

00:54:49.000 So why would there be...

00:54:50.000 What is right to me is not the same as what's right to me.

00:54:52.000 So yeah, that's the question, right?

00:54:53.000 So Ted Kaczynski thought it was right to say that.

00:54:55.000 That's right.

00:54:56.000 That's right.

00:54:57.000 He sure did.

00:54:57.000 And that was wrong, right?

00:54:59.000 Well, in our eyes, yes, but not in his eyes.

00:55:01.000 But he was wrong.

00:55:03.000 In our eyes.

00:55:04.000 Yes, he was.

00:55:05.000 Do you think in objective eyes, Ted Kaczynski was wrong?

00:55:09.000 Yes.

00:55:09.000 Okay, good.

00:55:10.000 So that's what I'm saying, is that there is an objective moral standard, eventually.

00:55:13.000 Eventually.

00:55:14.000 So, and what I'm saying is that in that objective moral standard, include sexual relations.

00:55:19.000 Yes.

00:55:19.000 So again, but then sexual relations come to what you believe in as sex.

00:55:26.000 Let me ask you a question, though. 0.84

00:55:27.000 So like pedophilia.

00:55:28.000 Is it objectively wrong?

00:55:31.000 So now we're going back to kids.

00:55:32.000 No, that's important, though, because that's actually debated.

00:55:35.000 There's college professors that say that.

00:55:36.000 Oh, no.

00:55:37.000 So let me just start with: yes, I do not believe in pedophilia.

00:55:40.000 I believe in the idea of that.

00:55:41.000 I'm not accusing you of that.

00:55:42.000 I don't think you are.

00:55:44.000 And that being said, I believe it's an illness.

00:55:46.000 I believe it's an actual mental illness that needs to be understood.

00:55:49.000 I do not agree with it.

00:55:50.000 I don't think it should be understood.

00:55:51.000 I think it should be.

00:55:53.000 No, but I think we need to do studies and understand why are people doing this?

00:55:56.000 Why is this actually happening? 0.84

00:55:57.000 I have no desire to have sex with a child. 0.93

00:56:00.000 Hopefully, you don't either.

00:56:01.000 Now, that being said, I have no desire, but I would really want to know why are these people this way?

00:56:07.000 But the point is, finally, you admit, okay, that's wrong.

00:56:10.000 It is wrong.

00:56:11.000 Right.

00:56:11.000 So there at some point.

00:56:13.000 In my eyes, it's wrong.

00:56:14.000 But like you just said, there are some people who believe it's not wrong.

00:56:17.000 Right, but they are wrong, is the point.

00:56:19.000 In our eyes, they are wrong.

00:56:20.000 No, but that's the point: is that eventually we're going to have to get to objective truth and subjective truth.

00:56:25.000 Yes.

00:56:25.000 It doesn't matter my eyes versus their eyes.

00:56:27.000 It's existence, right?

00:56:29.000 A is A, regardless if you think it's B.

00:56:31.000 But do you think you could get everyone on board with that?

00:56:33.000 No way.

00:56:34.000 The humans will never get on board with everything being one thing.

00:56:37.000 They will not do it.

00:56:38.000 Great question.

00:56:39.000 Is that it doesn't take everyone, right?

00:56:41.000 The majority.

00:56:42.000 Well, or a reasoned majority, right?

00:56:44.000 This is why the American founding was so special.

00:56:46.000 Yes.

00:56:47.000 Is that all 13 colonies believed in some very certain basic things, right?

00:56:51.000 That man should be free, rights are granted by God, separation of powers, consent to the governed.

00:56:55.000 There might have been some lunatic weirdo in the hills that was like, I want to live under a king. 0.86

00:56:58.000 That's right. 0.93

00:56:59.000 It doesn't really matter, right?

00:57:01.000 But when we look at how we formulate laws and we ask morality, it really comes down to the question: what is good?

00:57:07.000 Right.

00:57:07.000 What is good?

00:57:08.000 So, again, where you're coming from, I think.

00:57:10.000 And it's not just the Bible.

00:57:11.000 It's from the classics.

00:57:12.000 It's from Aristotle, Plato, it's from the canon of the West, from Aquinas, from Augustine, from Bacon, from Newton, all of these amazing pioneers that built the West articulated a central morality that is in our books, it's in our movies, it's in our existence, which is that children are off limits. 0.70

00:57:29.000 The ideal is one-man, one-woman marriage, that we should try to protect the innocent, that courageous exploration is something we should, and that's their morals.

00:57:38.000 It's the morals.

00:57:38.000 That's what I'm trying to get at.

00:57:40.000 I don't agree with you.

00:57:41.000 But it isn't the morals.

00:57:43.000 It's the morals of those specific people.

00:57:45.000 Other people have different morals.

00:57:47.000 Right.

00:57:47.000 So exactly.

00:57:48.000 Right.

00:57:48.000 So if you go back to the 800s of the Goths, they used to murder children.

00:57:54.000 They used to not think it was wrong.

00:57:55.000 That is wrong.

00:57:56.000 In our eyes, that's wrong.

00:57:58.000 But in their eyes, it isn't wrong.

00:58:01.000 That's what I'm trying to say: I agree with pedophilia, all those things are wrong.

00:58:05.000 But the point is that the overarching laws of the universe don't change just because someone thinks that they're not.

00:58:10.000 But how are those the overarching laws of the universe when these are just human men making these laws up?

00:58:17.000 They're not just making them up.

00:58:19.000 They are writing them and writing them down.

00:58:20.000 Where are they getting them from?

00:58:22.000 Because they're coming together.

00:58:24.000 And they're coming together as men and having discourse creates that.

00:58:27.000 That's right.

00:58:29.000 So if you take a different group, that's right.

00:58:31.000 But another group of people will have different ideas about that.

00:58:34.000 But even if they have different ideas, the point is that you can look at that and say, huh, okay, Aztec sacrificing children, wrong.

00:58:40.000 I don't care if they thought it was right.

00:58:42.000 I don't care if they thought that it was going to bring back Teyotuktan or whatever. 0.98

00:58:46.000 Wrong.

00:58:46.000 Yes.

00:58:47.000 Right?

00:58:47.000 Right.

00:58:47.000 Romans that used to rape boys.

00:58:50.000 Wrong. 0.99

00:58:50.000 That's right. 0.99

00:58:51.000 So what I'm saying is that we look at that, regardless if you're from Japan or Russia and you have an overarching view of the universe that says there is objective morality.

00:59:02.000 In their eyes.

00:59:02.000 Yes, I agree with you.

00:59:04.000 All right.

00:59:05.000 I'm going to wrap up with this last question.

00:59:09.000 Is transgenderism a legitimate thing? 1.00

00:59:12.000 Does it coincide with the natural law or is it a social construct created over time?

00:59:17.000 And if so, by whom and for what purpose?

00:59:20.000 So that's a great question, actually.

00:59:22.000 So again, I can speak for myself because myself, I do believe that I actually have something called gender dysphoria.

00:59:28.000 And I do believe that I have been diagnosed by a professional person that says, now, let's say I wasn't diagnosed.

00:59:35.000 I don't know.

00:59:35.000 Maybe I would have been able to live my life as a very butch woman, but I tried and I couldn't do it.

00:59:40.000 That being said, I think transgenderism is a real thing. 1.00

00:59:43.000 I think it is a mental disorder. 0.97

00:59:46.000 I believe that people can be diagnosed with it and you can be me and move on with your life.

00:59:50.000 I believe what's happening today is something different than what I see and what I believe in.

00:59:55.000 So, you know, that's kind of where I stand.

00:59:57.000 Yeah, I don't know about a real thing.

00:59:59.000 I don't really know how to answer that part of it.

01:00:01.000 I mean, I'll say I think you're actually a lot tougher than you give yourself credit for.

01:00:05.000 I think that you could have got through it without having to pick yourself apart.

01:00:10.000 But I'm happy.

01:00:11.000 So isn't that really the bottom line?

01:00:12.000 Is I'm a happy person and I move through the world the way I wanted to move through the world.

01:00:16.000 And, you know, that's all I want anybody to see.

01:00:18.000 I don't want to change your mind.

01:00:19.000 If you're not into changing your mind, that's totally okay.

01:00:21.000 All I want to do is walk away from this table saying, you know what, Buck, cool.

01:00:25.000 I respect what you do.

01:00:26.000 That's it.

01:00:26.000 I don't agree with it.

01:00:27.000 I don't want to.

01:00:28.000 I don't respect pornography.

01:00:29.000 I'll be very honest.

01:00:30.000 Right on, but that's okay, dude.

01:00:32.000 But I'm totally cool.

01:00:33.000 You are a pleasant person.

01:00:34.000 So, yeah, look, it is a social, I don't really social construct like, I mean, this transgender movement is invoking massive damage on our own. 1.00

01:00:43.000 It is.

01:00:44.000 I agree.

01:00:44.000 I will agree with that.

01:00:45.000 I don't believe what's happening is real.

01:00:47.000 And I'm wondering, what are the underlying agenda here?

01:00:50.000 Why is it, I get called transphobic.

01:00:53.000 That is so insane in itself.

01:00:55.000 That should say everything to the world right there.

01:00:57.000 Because I don't agree with certain things in a community.

01:01:00.000 That says to me it's not a community anymore.

01:01:02.000 It's something like very cultish.

01:01:04.000 And very much if you speak outside, they're going to come after you.

01:01:07.000 I will not, as a person who transitioned 29 years ago, who lives an amazing life, who moved forward in the world, sit down and watch what's happening to the community I helped to build.

01:01:16.000 So that's where I stand.

01:01:17.000 I believe it's real.

01:01:18.000 What was the second part of the question?

01:01:20.000 It was who is creating this and for what purpose?

01:01:25.000 Yeah, I think it's the pharmaceutical companies.

01:01:27.000 I do too.

01:01:27.000 I do too.

01:01:28.000 Well, I don't want to get into that rabbit hole, but I think I think there's a supernatural component to this.

01:01:34.000 That's a separate issue for me.

01:01:35.000 Yeah, that's right.

01:01:36.000 So I'll give you each about a minute for final thoughts and then we'll close.

01:01:41.000 You first.

01:01:41.000 Oh, thank you.

01:01:42.000 So my final thoughts were that I understand why people have a hard time with pornography.

01:01:48.000 I always have and I always will.

01:01:50.000 I do believe what I do still is important work in my field.

01:01:54.000 That being said, I also believe that people need to start understanding transgender is something that is a very small amount of people in the world.

01:02:01.000 It's not what you see.

01:02:03.000 And I think on some level that we need to have the discussion around what's happening in this and why there's this push of agenda to transition people at such a fast rate.

01:02:13.000 Transsexualism is real. 0.67

01:02:15.000 It's here.

01:02:15.000 I have actual proof of it.

01:02:17.000 But I do believe that we need to have a bigger conversation around it.

01:02:21.000 Appreciated you being here.

01:02:22.000 It was lively and spirited.

01:02:23.000 You were more nuanced towards this.

01:02:24.000 I want to give you credit for that.

01:02:27.000 Definitely don't agree on the pornography stuff.

01:02:30.000 And I think the production of it's reprehensible.

01:02:34.000 However, we've been through that fine.

01:02:37.000 I'll just close it this.

01:02:38.000 Like, look, there's the laws of nature, and we can't put them in suspense just because we want to.

01:02:42.000 You admit that.

01:02:43.000 You admit I'm a male.

01:02:45.000 That is, you know, I don't want to say offend you at masquerading as a female or putting on a costume or whatever as a male.

01:02:52.000 And I think it's really important that we stay anchored in things that are good and true and beautiful and trying to go on the journey of the exploration of the people that have gone into the fields and gone into the oceans of trying to figure out what that actually means.

01:03:04.000 The Western canon is a beautiful thing.

01:03:07.000 It's about protection of the innocent, you know, the courageous exploration, the journey of the unknown.

01:03:12.000 And there are things in this world that are objectively true.

01:03:16.000 And we must dive into those, such as sex being protected in a private domain, such as having children to be able to develop and to pursue virtue, hopefully being able to develop a society around those things.

01:03:29.000 But I will give you credit.

01:03:32.000 Your willingness to have this dialogue is something that deserves to be commended.

01:03:36.000 Thank you.

01:03:37.000 Despite our very different views on a lot of different things.

01:03:39.000 But that's how things change, my friend.

01:03:41.000 So I really appreciate you bringing me on.

01:03:43.000 It means a lot to me that you're willing to have the conversation.

01:03:45.000 Dialogue is through reason.

01:03:47.000 That's what the Greek means in it.

01:03:49.000 Buck Angel, thank you very much for joining us.

01:03:51.000 And Charlie Kirk, we'll see you next debate night.

01:03:53.000 Thanks.

01:03:54.000 Okay.

01:03:54.000 Thank you.

01:03:55.000 Thank you.

01:03:55.000 Thanks, my friend.

01:03:56.000 That was awesome.

01:03:57.000 Thank you.

01:04:01.000 Thank you so much for listening, everybody.

01:04:02.000 Email us your thoughts as always: freedom at charliekirk.com.

01:04:05.000 Thank you so much for listening, everybody.

01:04:07.000 God bless.

01:04:10.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk. com.

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