The Charlie Kirk Show - "Racial Etiquette" and the Fall of Civilization with Heather Mac Donald

00:00:00.000 Hey everybody, it's Anna Charlie Kirk Show. 0.89

00:00:01.000 Heather McDonald joins us. 0.71

00:00:03.000 Very important conversation on race, beauty, and art.

00:00:06.000 Email us freedom at charliekirk.com and support our program, charliekirk.com slash support.

00:00:12.000 Email me as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:00:15.000 Buckle up, everybody, here.

00:00:16.000 We go.

00:00:16.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:18.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

00:00:20.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

00:00:24.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:00:27.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:00:28.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:00:29.000 His spirit, his love of this country.

00:00:31.000 He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created.

00:00:36.000 Turning point USA. 0.65

00:00:38.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

00:00:46.000 That's why we are here.

00:00:49.000 Brought to you by the Loan Experts I Trust, Andrew and Todd at Sierra Pacific Mortgage at AndrewandTodd.com.

00:00:59.000 Hey, everybody, welcome back.

00:01:00.000 Email us your thoughts as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:01:03.000 Joining us now is the great Heather McDonald, who has a new book out when race trumps merits.

00:01:09.000 I have an advanced copy here.

00:01:11.000 You guys can actually buy your copy and you should.

00:01:13.000 And there's so much to discuss.

00:01:15.000 Heather, welcome back to the program.

00:01:17.000 Thank you so much for having me, Charlie.

00:01:18.000 I appreciate it.

00:01:19.000 So, Heather, the introduction caught my attention.

00:01:23.000 A cultural revolution.

00:01:26.000 Boy, does that feel like something of Maoist variety.

00:01:30.000 What do you mean by a cultural revolution?

00:01:32.000 Have we lived through a slow-motion revolution, a changing of norms and customs?

00:01:38.000 We certainly are.

00:01:40.000 We are tearing down all our norms and customs that support law-abiding, high-achieving efforts, self-control, in favor of a lie, which is that America is systemically racist.

00:01:54.000 We are jeopardizing scientific progress by saying that the race of scientists in a research lab matter more than their scientific competence.

00:02:05.000 We are impugning the extraordinary traditions of Western art, whether it's classical music or painting or theater, because the performers in the past or the composers were white because they were European, get over it. 0.54

00:02:21.000 We are also tearing down our public safety. 0.94

00:02:26.000 We are deciding not to enforce the law because doing so inevitably has a disparate impact on black criminals.

00:02:34.000 And so our prosecutors, our police chiefs, our judges, and our Democratic politicians have all decided that they would rather not enforce the law and allow our streets to descend into anarchy than to enforce the law in a neutral, colorblind fashion and have a disparate impact on blacks. 0.64

00:02:51.000 You close the introduction with an interesting sentence.

00:02:54.000 You say, we are in uncharted territory.

00:02:56.000 As Americans, we are.

00:02:57.000 But do you think there is any historical precedent?

00:03:00.000 And I don't know if there is, Heather, of a country so wealthy, so prosperous that has its act together deciding to engage in this buffet line of arsenic.

00:03:11.000 I mean, yes, the difference is Mao's China is they were totally poor.

00:03:16.000 So we're explain what do you mean by we're in uncharted territory.

00:03:20.000 Well, Charlie, you more than I, but I have as well, been confronted by these student Yahoos. 1.00

00:03:26.000 And it is really sobering to be in front of the student mob and because you're in front of utter irrationality that is beyond reach of reason.

00:03:37.000 People that are in a state of neuroses that are in this weird frying jag belief that they are victims.

00:03:46.000 And when I see that, it does remind me of the Chinese Revolution with students taking over. 0.94

00:03:53.000 But the difference with the Chinese Revolution, as you say, it was a poor country, and it was by and large the lower classes that were turning on the elites.

00:04:03.000 That's exactly right.

00:04:04.000 And they tore down the classical education, the classical literature, and they said, oh, that's anti-intellectual, or it's intellectual, and therefore it's against the people.

00:04:16.000 But what's unusual about the American Revolution, yes, we have the student mobs, but it is the elites that are leading the revolution.

00:04:27.000 And they're turning on themselves.

00:04:30.000 They're not just turning on the MAGA hat wearing white supremacists.

00:04:34.000 And I hope your viewers know that I'm saying that in scare quotes and ironically, Charlie, but they're turning on their own members.

00:04:43.000 So every time a college president gets up there, whether it's Yale's president Peter Salabi or Princeton's president's Christopher Eisgruber and says, we're systemically racist.

00:04:52.000 You know, we have to have even more diversity hiring, even more diversity administrating, because we are not living up to the ideals of inclusive excellence, one of the phrases that is just code for lowering standards.

00:05:07.000 Those presidents are implicitly accusing their own faculty of being racist, which is preposterous.

00:05:13.000 College, they are not racist.

00:05:15.000 So there is no precedent for this.

00:05:19.000 The French Revolution was bloody.

00:05:23.000 It was a mass outpouring of hysteria, the guillotine, the celebration of taking down aristocrats simply because they're aristocrats.

00:05:34.000 However, contrasted today, they did not tear down the statutes of the great philosophes, of Voltaire, of Diderot, of Montesquieu, of Rameau, Rousseau.

00:05:49.000 They didn't.

00:05:51.000 And to this day, to his credit, Emmanuel Macron, the current president of France, has said, we're not going the direction of the United States.

00:05:59.000 We're not tearing down our statues.

00:06:01.000 The rest of the Anglo world is sort of bad. 1.00

00:06:04.000 You know, it's not just America.

00:06:05.000 Canada's bad. 0.99

00:06:06.000 Australia is bad. 0.98

00:06:07.000 New Zealand's bad. 0.98

00:06:09.000 But the worst really at this point is the United States.

00:06:13.000 So then your book continues, by the way, the book, everyone should check out a copy, When Race Trumps Merit.

00:06:19.000 And you continue and you give example after example after example.

00:06:24.000 And so let's focus on something you mentioned here, which I think is really smart.

00:06:28.000 Angelo Cotavilla, to his great credit, really, I think, laid this out in political terms better than almost anybody else.

00:06:35.000 Back in 2010, 2011, he wrote the book, The Ruling Class.

00:06:38.000 And he talked about how there's a country class and a ruling class, and this is not going to end well.

00:06:44.000 And so, Heather, can you at least give your best hypothesis or your best explanation as to the psychology that is driving the self-hatred of our elites?

00:06:57.000 What is their psychological profile?

00:06:59.000 What is their why?

00:06:59.000 I get asked this question all the time, and I can't answer it well.

00:07:05.000 I know.

00:07:05.000 And we're always asked, do they really believe it?

00:07:08.000 All the time.

00:07:09.000 You know, and in a sense, it doesn't matter whether they believe it or not, because what matters is their public pronouncements and the policies that follow on those pronouncements.

00:07:18.000 But I understand the instinct to want to know what's going on in their head, because we look around the world and we see some obvious truths that there's males and that there's females, that there's criminals and that there's victims, there's innocence and there's guilt, and they don't see that.

00:07:33.000 And so one does wonder, are these human beings?

00:07:35.000 You know, what do we have in common?

00:07:37.000 But I think what drives this, Charlie, overwhelmingly is the issue of race in the United States and the fact that we still have these very large racial disparities when it comes to academic achievement, representation in meritocratic institutions.

00:07:53.000 That's underrepresenting of blacks.

00:07:55.000 And then on the other hand, in the prison population, you have the overrepresentation of blacks.

00:08:00.000 And this country, understandably, has a lot of guilt.

00:08:06.000 about that.

00:08:07.000 And there's a lot of discomfort at any explanation for those disparities that is not racism.

00:08:15.000 The elites are unable to look hard on at the pathologies of the inner city culture that give rise to these disparities.

00:08:22.000 And bizarrely, they would rather blame themselves for phantom racism.

00:08:28.000 Is it, and we have two minutes remaining in this segment, is it, do they know that it's going to make them more powerful?

00:08:34.000 Or is it that also that it just makes them feel good?

00:08:36.000 Or is it just a mixture of both?

00:08:38.000 It is kind of this super weapon that is created where they both get to virtue signal, but simultaneously, they actually get to remain an oligarch.

00:08:48.000 Yeah, I would put my emphasis on the virtue signaling.

00:08:51.000 I don't know about the logical steps to, well, this keeps me in power outside of maybe electoral power of being, and tragically, sadly, depressingly, you know, the black areas of Chicago just voted for an anti-police guy, Brandon Johnson.

00:09:07.000 The highest crime rate areas were the ones that voted for him the most.

00:09:11.000 So the electoral politics of this are very weird.

00:09:14.000 But I think that what it is as a sort of initial gut matter is simply I'm allowed to feel virtuous.

00:09:22.000 I believe that I'm looking over a white supremacist land. 0.69

00:09:26.000 And but for me and my racial preferences in my college or my Alzheimer's lab, you know, blacks would continue to be downtrodden. 1.00

00:09:35.000 And I'm going to help lift them up.

00:09:37.000 Well, the fact of the matter is, is at this point, the only thing that is going to lift up blacks from this inner city culture is self-help. 0.98

00:09:45.000 The culture has to change itself.

00:09:47.000 We cannot make you learn to read.

00:09:52.000 You know, to learn to read, you've got to do the effort.

00:09:55.000 But elite whites want to believe that they're responsible for blacks and that they can.

00:10:00.000 That's exactly right. 0.96

00:10:02.000 That they're pseudo-caretakers.

00:10:04.000 The book is When Race Trumps Merit, How the Pursuit of Equity Sacrifices Excellence, Destroys Beauty, and Threatens Lives.

00:10:12.000 I believe this is the most important topic right now.

00:10:17.000 This is going to bring down the whole civilization.

00:10:18.000 It's not an exaggeration.

00:10:20.000 Heather agrees.

00:10:21.000 She's been trying to warn about this since her book, Diversity Delusion, and her other fabulous works.

00:10:27.000 And it's only getting worse.

00:10:29.000 It's accelerating.

00:10:30.000 It's intensifying.

00:10:31.000 They are strengthening that they might be growing out of public opinion or public favor with certain people.

00:10:36.000 But amongst the elites, this is only more institutionalized than ever.

00:10:40.000 We'll be right back.

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00:12:29.000 Heather, do you agree with what I was saying?

00:12:31.000 Do you think this idea pathogen has infected to such a great extent?

00:12:36.000 For example, have they gotten stronger or weaker since you wrote the book Diversity Delusion?

00:12:41.000 Oh, they've gotten much stronger.

00:12:43.000 The George Floyd moment was not, George Floyd hysteria did not come out of nowhere, Charlie.

00:12:50.000 It's growing and it's been growing for decades.

00:12:52.000 But George Floyd was really a watershed when you had this universal chorus of elite institutions all declaring themselves racist,

00:13:04.000 all promising these preposterous quotas that investment banks were going to be 50 or 30 percent black by 2025, which is just impossible with any shred of meritocracy when you look at the actual distribution of scores on the business school admissions test or on the GREs or on the SATs. 0.74

00:13:28.000 And you had science magazines, the leading journals of scientific research like JAMA or Lancet publishing front page, full spread issues on the racism of medicine and science.

00:13:44.000 So it's gotten a lot worse and the pressure has gotten a lot worse to destroy meritocratic standards in favor of diversity.

00:13:55.000 So the book continues through examples of museum, of the opera, of art.

00:14:02.000 And so explain to us or make the argument, explain to our audience, why is it that the pursuit of equity is at odds with the, let's say, the noble endeavor of appreciating beauty.

00:14:19.000 Why are those two things at opposites?

00:14:23.000 Well, for one thing, equity has nothing to do with beauty.

00:14:27.000 It is not the comparative advantage of classical music musicians or painters or sculptors or poets or actors to be working on closing racial skills gaps.

00:14:44.000 They are involved in the debates and feelings of their time and of themselves.

00:14:50.000 And let's also be very clear that equity in our current context means one thing and one thing only, and that is racial proportionality attained at the expense of standards.

00:15:04.000 But you now do have, after George Floyd, which was this watershed moment, you had almost every opera company, classical music organization, art museum, dance company, theater company putting out public statements saying, we understand now that we are a complicitous and guilty white organization. 0.84

00:15:26.000 Our audience is too white. 0.99

00:15:29.000 Our authors that we perform are too white. 0.99

00:15:32.000 composers we perform are too white. 0.94

00:15:34.000 Our board members are too white. 1.00

00:15:37.000 And we must make amends.

00:15:39.000 And we have now decided that our mission is no longer to curate and pass on these traditions of human expression, which are beyond parallel, that give us access to feelings of pathos, yearning, eros, despair, joy. irony and wit that we would otherwise never have access to.

00:16:06.000 These organizations said, that's no longer our mission.

00:16:08.000 Our mission is anti-racism.

00:16:12.000 And you have art museums turning on their own collections.

00:16:16.000 It is absolutely bizarre, Charlie.

00:16:18.000 You have the head of the Metropolitan Museum of Art, Max Holline, or the head of the Art Institute of Chicago, James Rondeau, declaring that their collection of Baroque 17th century Dutch masterpieces are racist because they were painted in a time of colonialism.

00:16:40.000 You have the Art Institute of Chicago, one of the great museum collections in the world, dismissing all of its docents who provide volunteer free education to the city's high school students and elementary school students, overwhelmingly black. 1.00

00:16:59.000 The Art Institute got rid of all its docents because they were all white. 1.00

00:17:03.000 And today, it is a per se, if not crime, it is at least a mark of guilt and of being a pariah to be white or to be a white institution. 0.60

00:17:15.000 That's correct.

00:17:16.000 And you talk about medicine.

00:17:17.000 That's a whole nother topic.

00:17:19.000 And when I talk to people I describe as normies, right?

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00:17:27.000 I say, no, this is not, this is everywhere, okay?

00:17:30.000 This is not just a bunch of radicals that are interrupting speeches, okay?

00:17:34.000 These are doctors.

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00:17:37.000 This idea pathogen has metastasized all throughout society in the places that are supposed to be the least ideological.

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00:19:34.000 So, Heather, I have a theory, and I could be wrong.

00:19:36.000 I would like your take on it.

00:19:39.000 When it comes to art and the appreciation of objective beauty, was Marcel Duchamp, the famous episode where he signed the fountain, where it was assigned urinal.

00:19:56.000 Was that the beginning of the end of Western art?

00:19:58.000 Does this connect with your general theme?

00:20:01.000 It's a very, very good candidate for the beginning of the end, Charlie, because what we see is a lot of what we see today, which is it required absolutely no artistic skill to do that.

00:20:11.000 He didn't have to learn how to draw.

00:20:12.000 Yes.

00:20:13.000 And it was a deliberate provocation.

00:20:15.000 What drives me the craziest when I go to contemporary art shows is that these people do have no artistic talent.

00:20:23.000 I sort of feel if you've learned to draw and you've mastered that basic hand-eye coordination, which is the basis of all artistic accomplishment in the visual arts, and then you decide that you're going to become an installation artist and you're going to create rooms filled with used tampons and a video playing a woman screaming at a banana for 24-hour loop.

00:20:48.000 I kind of, I'll semi, if you put a gun to my head, I'll respect that choice.

00:20:54.000 But the people today that are putting themselves up as artists have no artistic talent whatsoever.

00:20:59.000 And I don't know about Duchamp, if he actually had mastered the craft of seeing and drawing, but it was simply a provocation.

00:21:08.000 It had nothing to do with human expression.

00:21:11.000 It was a way of trying to puncture the long tradition that had brought us at that point the height of visual expression with Jean Singer Sargent's watercolors and his portraits that are just of stunning mastery, breathtaking beauty that we'd involved.

00:21:34.000 You know, for hundreds of years, you think, my God, we're at Van Dyck now, one of the great Netherlandish painters, portrait painters.

00:21:43.000 It can't get any better than that.

00:21:44.000 And then you get to the 19th century.

00:21:46.000 It gets better than that.

00:21:47.000 You know, it just, it's one wave of beauty after another.

00:21:51.000 And then for some reason in the 20th century with the cynicism, we decide we're no longer in the beauty business.

00:21:59.000 And, you know, one can, there's obviously on the right, even among right critics, there's disputes about Jackson Pollock.

00:22:07.000 Those like Hilton Kramer of the New Criterion defended a lot of abstract expressionism.

00:22:13.000 I'm semi of the camp that of, you know, well, my three-year-old could do this, so it's hard for me to see the actual craft and composition in a Jackson Pollock, but it got worse from there.

00:22:28.000 So explain to our audience that might be new to this topic, and then I really want to get into the race stuff because that is the core of your book.

00:22:34.000 And I want to talk about those youths in Chicago, right?

00:22:37.000 Those pesky little kids that are playing hooky.

00:22:41.000 This idea of objective versus subjective when it comes to art, when it comes to understanding beauty, because I think C.S. Lewis was one of the best at predicting this in the book Abolition of Man, where he said, it is not your opinion that the waterfall is sublime.

00:23:01.000 You can't just tell a kid that you're like, oh, I don't know if I like it or not.

00:23:05.000 You have to try to build them up towards a pursuit of an objective order.

00:23:10.000 We seem to have lost that.

00:23:12.000 And now it is, you know, not just your own opinion, not your own preference.

00:23:16.000 It's even worse than that.

00:23:17.000 It's that ugliness can be deemed as beauty.

00:23:19.000 It's even worse than preference or anything.

00:23:21.000 That it's the complete deterioration of any standards or any sort of tradition when it comes to art or when it comes to what we consider to be beautiful.

00:23:34.000 Can you just build that out objective versus subjective?

00:23:36.000 Why is that important?

00:23:38.000 And how is the education system really no longer teaching that?

00:23:43.000 Well, I'm a mixed opinion on that, Charlie, because I have observed the truth that there are radical changes in what we call the canon.

00:23:52.000 You know, the canon, whether it's in literature or music or art, are works that there's a consensus around that these are the masterpieces that everybody should be exposed to if they want to have lived a life that is remotely human.

00:24:09.000 And I can observe as a factual matter that the canon has changed and tastes have changed.

00:24:15.000 There's a 17th century British poet, dramatist named John Dryden, and for a long time he was viewed as superior to Shakespeare.

00:24:24.000 He wrote in Anthony and Cleopatra.

00:24:26.000 It's a very, it's a much more classical literary style.

00:24:32.000 It's much more controlled than Shakespeare.

00:24:34.000 Today, he's read, and I read him when I was in England studying because I was doing English literature, but your average American literature class, if they even exist, would really not spend any time with Dryden.

00:24:48.000 In classical music, for a long time, nobody was performing the symphonies of Gustav Mahler, which are extraordinary works of titanic genius and expression and pain and exaltation.

00:25:03.000 And then in the 20th century, Mahler was revived, and there was a period where every symphony in the country was doing one Mahler cycle after another until you wanted to scream.

00:25:13.000 So it is hard to make a case that there is a transcendent, timeless, objective standard of what the great art is because tastes have changed.

00:25:23.000 Nevertheless, I would say that what is the fatal flaw of our time today is that we have given up on the idea of beauty.

00:25:33.000 You will never hear a literature department chair or dean or somebody, you know, in a heading of an arts organization talk about beauty.

00:25:44.000 It is all about race and anti-colonial.

00:25:49.000 And that teaches students that there's no reason to look into this tradition. 0.74

00:25:56.000 There's no reason to get outside of your pathetic, petty, narrow selves and lose yourself in Renaissance pastoral poetry or the great 19th century Russian or British novel.

00:26:10.000 I want to now play a couple pieces of tape here, and we have several. 0.97

00:26:14.000 Like, for example, this is an academic, mind you, it is from 2005, who is talking about we need to advocate for the extermination of white people, addressing a panel at Howard University.

00:26:27.000 You're familiar with this tape, Heather, play cut 61.

00:26:31.000 And we're not thinking about a solution to the problem. 0.98

00:26:35.000 And the one idea is how we are going to exterminate white people, because that, in my estimation, is the only conclusion I have come to. 1.00

00:26:46.000 We have to exterminate white people off of the face of the planet to solve this problem. 1.00

00:26:52.000 Now, I don't care whether you clap or not, but I'm saying to you that we need to solve this problem because they are going to kill us. 1.00

00:27:02.000 Now, that is an author.

00:27:03.000 I don't know if he's a professor or not, but Heather, one of the things that gets the media very angry is when I say that there is a rather forceful anti-white movement in America.

00:27:15.000 Is that correct?

00:27:16.000 It's totally correct.

00:27:19.000 It is the absolute basis.

00:27:21.000 Anytime you have the push for diversity, it's all zero sum, Charlie.

00:27:27.000 And you see these institutions, these museums celebrating themselves, saying we've managed to get our white population down over the last five decades or five years or so. 0.81

00:27:41.000 Yay, we used to be 66% white.

00:27:43.000 Now we're only 52% white.

00:27:45.000 We saw this with the distribution of vaccines in the COVID hysteria era, which I hope we're finally over, but probably not.

00:27:54.000 Which, you know, they got rid of their scientific knowledge that the people most at risk were elderly and did not give priority to the elderly because the elderly are disproportionately white.

00:28:07.000 You know, that is going on all over the place.

00:28:10.000 And you can come up with many statements from academia since 2005 of people saying, you know, white people are the problem. 0.99

00:28:20.000 We hate them. 0.98

00:28:21.000 There was a list that was on the web maybe two months ago of all, it was sort of group compiled of all the phrases for whites that blacks have come up with. 0.98

00:28:30.000 The double standards, and I know conservatives harp on double standards.

00:28:34.000 I don't know if the left harps on our double standards.

00:28:36.000 I don't think so.

00:28:37.000 I think they are sort of predominantly operate in the era of the realm of double standards.

00:28:44.000 It's extraordinary.

00:28:45.000 These statements that are made that are anti-white, if made about blacks, would create national riots.

00:28:55.000 Well, and it's not just the statements, as you all know, it's the policies now, right?

00:28:58.000 So statements and these ideas then lead to actual policies.

00:29:03.000 And so I just want to give, I mean, I don't think we have the tape, maybe we do or we don't, but I mean, we could tell the story. 0.96

00:29:09.000 In Chicago, you have hundreds of black youth go and target white people, pillage stores, do widespread violence. 1.00

00:29:16.000 The new mayor of Chicago, Brandon Johnson, says, well, you know, you have to understand these kids need space and they don't have a lot of opportunity. 0.96

00:29:23.000 State senator from Illinois comes out and he says that this was just protesting.

00:29:29.000 I mean, we have unregulated, unchecked, and not even condemned now episodes of widespread looting and violence.

00:29:39.000 And so, Heather, this is where I lose people, I'll be honest.

00:29:43.000 And it goes back to the earlier question.

00:29:45.000 And it is a good question, which is what elite wants to live in that country, right?

00:29:50.000 I mean, how does that make J.B. Pritzker happy?

00:29:53.000 You know, the enormously overweight person, you know, multi-billionaire trust fund guy who's the governor of Illinois.

00:30:00.000 He's a radical revolutionary.

00:30:01.000 Does he look at that and he's saying, you know what?

00:30:03.000 We're one step closer. 0.96

00:30:05.000 I mean, not only is it ugly, it is depraved. 0.98

00:30:07.000 It is ill. 0.89

00:30:08.000 Help me understand that.

00:30:10.000 Maybe there's nothing to understand, but believe me, Charlie, I'm as mystified as you are.

00:30:17.000 What is it going to take?

00:30:18.000 If the only people who care about black crime are white conservatives, but if we talk about crime, we're accused of being racist. 0.92

00:30:29.000 And these whites would rather put up with their neighborhoods having these flash mobs. 0.87

00:30:36.000 We'll be very honest here. 0.98

00:30:37.000 It's black teenagers. 0.82

00:30:39.000 That's exactly right. 0.61

00:30:40.000 Yes. 0.95

00:30:41.000 Black teenagers.

00:30:42.000 You know, you see that the videos are incredible of the police escorting away these white people through the mob. 0.99

00:30:50.000 Again, if this was whites rampaging in South Chicago, the entire world would have ejected us from the United Nations. 1.00

00:31:01.000 We would be the pariahs on earth. 0.99

00:31:03.000 But it is viewed as normal and acceptable for blacks to beat up on whites. 1.00

00:31:11.000 You know, we've now got with the Tamzas City shooting some new wow black hashtags, you know, knocking on the door while black or existing while black, as the mayor said. 0.98

00:31:24.000 No, here's the reality: it's wow white, Charlie. 0.97

00:31:28.000 It's driving while white and not being carjacked by these teens that are out of control, whether it's in Chicago or Philadelphia or Los Angeles, or walking while Asian and not being beaten by these black teens. 0.97

00:31:44.000 88% of all interracial violence between blacks and whites and whites and blacks is committed by blacks on whites. 0.97

00:31:51.000 This fiction that, oh, blacks, that Biden, you know, repeated, of course, after the Ralph Yarl shooting in Kansas City, that, oh, these poor black parents have to worry that their kids are going to get shot by whites. 0.99

00:32:05.000 That is a complete lie. 0.99

00:32:08.000 Yes, black kids die at astronomically higher rates than whites because blacks are killing them, not whites. 1.00

00:32:15.000 That's right. 1.00

00:32:16.000 Let's play cut 28 of black teens creating mass violence and looting, and it's just justified. 1.00

00:32:25.000 It's normalized. 0.97

00:32:26.000 Play cut 28.

00:32:46.000 So, Heather, I was at a dinner recently, and there was a person who called himself a conservative, and he said, You know, Charlie, the only thing I don't like is your race stuff.

00:32:55.000 He said, We have to try to be compassionate and caring.

00:32:57.000 I said, Well, what don't you like? 0.98

00:32:58.000 He said, Well, for example, when you say that blacks commit more crimes than whites, well, I said, They do. 1.00

00:33:04.000 And he said, Well, no, no, that's racist. 0.98

00:33:06.000 You can't say that.

00:33:06.000 Heather, is it true?

00:33:07.000 On average, do blacks commit more crimes than whites? 0.99

00:33:10.000 Absolutely, they do. 0.99

00:33:12.000 It's way disproportionate. 0.86

00:33:14.000 The fact is, 30% of the prison population is black. 0.98

00:33:18.000 That's because they're committing crimes at that rate. 0.96

00:33:22.000 Here's what you can use, Charlie: the bodies don't lie. 0.98

00:33:26.000 Blacks are killed by gun homicide at 25 times the rate of whites between the ages of 10 and 24. 0.95

00:33:34.000 And the reason that they're killed at 25 times the rate of whites is because they're killing each other at that rate. 1.00

00:33:41.000 The rate of gun homicide commissioned by blacks is exactly that disproportionate. 0.97

00:33:48.000 The bodies, the fact of the matter is every day, dozens of blacks are killed in homicide. 0.97

00:33:55.000 That's more than all white and Hispanic victims of homicide combined, even though Blacks are only 13% of the population. 0.88

00:34:03.000 I can guarantee you they're not being killed by whites, Charlie, because if they were, we would hear about it. 1.00

00:34:09.000 They are being killed by Blacks and they're not being killed by the police. 1.00

00:34:13.000 So we've seen the videos, you know, we've seen the videos of the teens rampaging through the stores, looting them, of beating up on Asians. 0.99

00:34:26.000 And yet, we're all supposed to pretend that there's no crime difference.

00:34:29.000 It is preposterous.

00:34:31.000 The time for racial etiquette is over. 0.59

00:34:33.000 I get the idea that whites are uncomfortable with.

00:34:39.000 I think this is exactly right.

00:34:40.000 Yes, keep going, please.

00:34:42.000 They're uncomfortable with this pathological inner city culture.

00:34:46.000 And so they want to blame themselves.

00:34:47.000 And they don't want, it feels inappropriate to talk about the academic skills gap or to talk about the crime gap.

00:34:55.000 Charlie, the time for racial etiquette is over. 0.59

00:34:59.000 If the left and the mainstream elites are going to go around tearing down our institutions because they have a disparate impact on black criminals and blacks that do not have basic literary literacy skills, 0.99

00:35:16.000 if they're going to impugn the basic civilizational standards that are necessary to proceed, prosper, and develop science and medicine, then we are going to fight back with the facts. 0.90

00:35:30.000 And I am not going to be silenced by being called a racist.

00:35:34.000 It doesn't matter to me if you call me a racist.

00:35:37.000 I have the facts on my side, and I'm going to give those facts if necessary to preserve Western civilization.

00:35:45.000 That is a beautiful statement.

00:35:46.000 I totally agree.

00:35:47.000 The time for racial etiquette is over.

00:35:50.000 And so, Heather, we have only a minute and a half remaining.

00:35:52.000 Summarize how we fix this.

00:35:54.000 I mean, the book is so thoughtful.

00:35:56.000 I barely even got to my questions.

00:35:58.000 When race Trump's merit, everyone, buy a copy, buy a copy.

00:36:01.000 Right now, when race trumps merit, we're going to buy a bunch.

00:36:04.000 How do we fix this?

00:36:05.000 Is it time to tell the truth regardless of what they call us?

00:36:07.000 I think that is one of the big takeaways.

00:36:08.000 In my opinion, someone says, Charlie, how do we fix this?

00:36:11.000 The easiest and a simple way, I mean, there's like a 500 things we need to do, is if white America was willing to tell the truth without being controlled with hypnosis with the R word, our country would be in a much better spot. 0.73

00:36:25.000 Do you agree, Heather?

00:36:26.000 I agree.

00:36:27.000 That's it.

00:36:28.000 We've answered your question, but I will just say you've got to have the facts.

00:36:31.000 This book does give you the facts about the academic skills gap.

00:36:34.000 It gives you the facts on crime.

00:36:37.000 We have to have an alternative explanation for racism.

00:36:40.000 Right now, racism is the only allowable explanation for any racial disparity in an Alzheimer's lab, in a cancer research lab, in a law firm, in a tech company.

00:36:51.000 As long as racism is the only allowable explanation, the left wins, it is all coming down.

00:36:55.000 We have to have the correct explanation, which is the academic skills gaps and the crime gaps.

00:37:01.000 And we have to keep getting those facts out, not being cowed, never apologizing, never backing down.

00:37:08.000 That's exactly right.

00:37:09.000 When race trumps merit, we are living through a cultural revolution that historians hundreds from years from now will be flummoxed.

00:37:17.000 And they're going to have all sorts of debates and symposiums.

00:37:20.000 How and why did this happen?

00:37:21.000 Well, they're going to read Heather McDonald's book, and they're going to figure out why a great power decided to try to commit suicide.

00:37:27.000 Whether or not that suicide attempt is successful remains to be seen.

00:37:30.000 Heather, thank you so much.

00:37:32.000 And check out the book, When Race Trumps Merit.

00:37:34.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:37:36.000 Email us your thoughts.

00:37:36.000 Freedom at CharlieKirk.com.

00:37:38.000 Thanks so much for listening, and God bless.

00:37:43.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.

00:37:47.000 com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - April 20, 2023

"Racial Etiquette" and the Fall of Civilization with Heather Mac Donald

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