The Charlie Kirk Show - November 07, 2023


Remaking the GOP in Real Time with Patrick Ruffini and James Lawrence


Episode Stats


Length

33 minutes

Words per minute

157.33664

Word count

5,297

Sentence count

357

Harmful content

Misogyny

2

sentences flagged

Toxicity

4

sentences flagged

Hate speech

15

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

A young man who will be going to federal prison in the new year because he made a meme that no one acted on. Douglas Mackey's legal team is in the process of appealing his conviction and is fighting for his release.

Transcript

Transcripts from "The Charlie Kirk Show" are sourced from the Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool. Explore them interactively here.
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Hey everybody, today on the Charlie Kirk Show.
00:00:01.000 Patrick Raffini joins us.
00:00:02.000 Is the GOP being remade in real time and going to jail for making a meme?
00:00:07.000 The tragic story of Douglas Mackey.
00:00:10.000 We have his back.
00:00:11.000 Email us as alwaysfreedom at charliekirk.com.
00:00:14.000 Get involved with turningpointusa at tpusa.com.
00:00:17.000 That is tpusa.com.
00:00:19.000 Start a high school or college chapter today at tpusa.com.
00:00:25.000 Email me as alwaysfreedom at charliekirk.com.
00:00:28.000 Buckle up, everybody.
00:00:29.000 Here we go.
00:00:30.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
00:00:32.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campuses.
00:00:34.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.
00:00:38.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.
00:00:41.000 I want to thank Charlie.
00:00:42.000 He's an incredible guy.
00:00:43.000 His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created.
00:00:50.000 Turning point USA.
00:00:51.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
00:01:00.000 That's why we are here.
00:01:04.000 Brought to you by the Loan Experts I Trust, Andrew and Todd at Sierra Pacific Mortgage at andrewandTodd.com.
00:01:12.000 All right, everybody, welcome back.
00:01:14.000 We have a young man who will be going to federal prison in the new year because he made a meme.
00:01:22.000 Because he made a meme.
00:01:25.000 A meme that no one acted on.
00:01:27.000 No one was disenfranchised.
00:01:30.000 But it goes to the core of what the regime aims to do.
00:01:35.000 You cannot make fun of the regime.
00:01:37.000 Comedians shall be imprisoned, but they want to set a legal precedent that speech can land you in jail.
00:01:47.000 Joining us now is James Lawrence, attorney for the Legal Defense Fund for Douglas Mackey.
00:01:53.000 James, thank you for taking the time.
00:01:55.000 James, our audience is familiar with this story and with what's happening with Mr. Mackey.
00:02:02.000 Just give us an update.
00:02:03.000 How is Douglas doing personally?
00:02:06.000 Thanks again, Charlie, for having me on to discuss this case.
00:02:11.000 So to get your audience up to speed, on October 18th, the federal district court judge in Brooklyn, New York, sentenced Mr. Mackey to serve seven months in prison for violating federal law under allegedly under 18 USC 241.
00:02:33.000 So seven months in prison, which will start in January.
00:02:37.000 So he was ordered to report to prison in January.
00:02:41.000 And importantly, for your audience to know, he asked for the sentence to be stayed pending appeal.
00:02:51.000 So his legal team right now is in the process of appealing the conviction to the Second Circuit Court of Appeals.
00:03:00.000 And so his defense asked for the district court judge to allow the appeal to go forward and for his sentence not to start until all appellate options had been exhausted.
00:03:15.000 The judge denied that request and ordered him to report for the start of his sentence beginning in January.
00:03:23.000 And another point for your audience to be aware of, again, sentenced on October 18th, on October 17th, Mr. Mackey's wife gave birth to the couple's first child.
00:03:37.000 And Doug couldn't be there, Charlie.
00:03:39.000 He was not present at the birth of his first child because he was in federal district court the following day in New York City awaiting sentencing.
00:03:51.000 And it's just another aspect of this case that's heart-wrenching and troubling on every level.
00:04:00.000 We've talked about it previously.
00:04:02.000 The First Amendment problem, the Fifth Amendment problem, and with respect to the conduct of the trial itself, the Sixth Amendment problem.
00:04:11.000 And then you compound all of those constitutional issues, which are profound and downright disturbing, and add on top of that the personal impact of missing the birth of your firstborn child and compounded with: hey, you're going to have to report to prison in January.
00:04:32.000 So that's the latest.
00:04:33.000 So in American history, James, has someone been sentenced to federal prison for a speech crime such as this in the history of the republic?
00:04:44.000 Well, this is the first prosecution of its kind, Charlie, under 18 USC 241.
00:04:51.000 And again, this was a statute that was passed in 1871.
00:04:54.000 It was aimed at preventing the Klan from exercising power and intimidating African Americans who were newly emancipated from slavery.
00:05:07.000 No such prosecution has been brought in the history of our country under that statute.
00:05:13.000 Now, I mean, can speech provide a predicate basis for criminal liability in other contexts?
00:05:22.000 Yes, but as we've maintained in court filings, this is a, or as Doug's defense has maintained in court filings, this is a radical extension of federal criminal liability to really criminalize political speech.
00:05:36.000 And that is what this case at its core is about.
00:05:39.000 That's why it's so important.
00:05:40.000 It's why we're asking your audience and others to go to meme defensefund.com to support Doug's legal defense, because this is a precedent that can't stand.
00:05:52.000 It has to be resolved and overturned at the Second Circuit Court of Appeals.
00:05:56.000 And if it doesn't happen there, then ultimately Mr. Mackey's case has to go to the U.S. Supreme Court and the Supreme Court will have to weigh in on it.
00:06:06.000 It's that important.
00:06:07.000 I mean, the issues that are at stake here are just fundamental bedrock issues that go to the core of what it is to be an American, to be able to speak truth to power, as you alluded to in your open, to be able to speak truth to power to the regime itself, which cannot broker and cannot tolerate in some ways.
00:06:29.000 And we think that this case illustrates it.
00:06:32.000 Dissent and the poking of fun at the political class in this country.
00:06:38.000 We can't stand for this.
00:06:39.000 This prosecution theory, this theory of criminal liability has to be headed off at the past, or there will be other prosecutions.
00:06:47.000 And in fact, there's media coverage that took place early on in this case suggesting that the Department of Justice is contemplating just that.
00:06:55.000 Other prosecutions predicated on the spread of misinformation and disinformation.
00:07:01.000 And Charlie, as we know from the COVID pandemic, today's misinformation and disinformation and conspiracy can be tomorrow's conventional wisdom.
00:07:10.000 It's a path we can't go down.
00:07:11.000 It's Pandora's box that we can't open.
00:07:13.000 It's been opened in Mr. Mackey's case, and it has to be shut down on an appeal.
00:07:18.000 And again, that's why we're asking your audience to go to meme defensefund.com.
00:07:21.000 Douglas Mackey's case is the basis for the Smith case against Trump.
00:07:27.000 Same law, they escalate and they elevate.
00:07:31.000 So, James, tell us about that.
00:07:33.000 And by the way, it's meme defensefund.com.
00:07:35.000 This impacts every single patriot out there that you could be a young man who now is a father.
00:07:43.000 He misses the birth of his son so that these cockroaches, these maniacs, these vermin and swine can bring him in front of a judge to put him in federal prison for seven months.
00:07:53.000 And there are no victims. 0.95
00:07:54.000 James, I just want you to reiterate that.
00:07:57.000 Who was victimized by his meme?
00:07:59.000 Tell a bad joke and you go to jail?
00:08:01.000 Well, Charlie, the government did not put on, not forecast before trial and at trial, did not put on a single witness that said, I saw this meme, I was confused, and as a result, I texted my vote and didn't exercise my right to go to the polls or vote by mail or whatever other legal mechanism of voting was available to that person at the time.
00:08:30.000 So, not a single person, not a single confused voter who did not get to exercise their right to vote.
00:08:38.000 And yet, Douglas Mackey is going to prison for seven months anyway under this ruling and under the verdict, unless it's overturned on an appeal, which is again why it's so critical that we had the theory of prosecution off of the past.
00:08:55.000 And another thing for your audience to know: you know, we talk a lot of this country about our democracy, and people make allusions to it.
00:09:04.000 Our democracy, in the case of former President Trump, is under attack in many ways in the ways that he's trying to curtail the influence of the administrative state.
00:09:12.000 It's important for your audience to know that Congress repeatedly considered whether or not to create criminal liability around election misinformation and disinformation.
00:09:25.000 They considered various proposals to do that and they rejected them.
00:09:30.000 It never passed, a proposal like this never passed the House or the Senate and was signed into law by a duly elected president.
00:09:40.000 And yet, Mr. Mackey has to report to prison in January anyway, because the administrative state, the deep state, was able to stretch and contort a statute from 1871 to achieve an outcome that was not politically viable or could not be pushed through the Congress.
00:10:02.000 And that is really what the regime means when it talks about our democracy.
00:10:08.000 It's not about voting.
00:10:09.000 It's not about elected representatives voting.
00:10:11.000 It's about unelected prosecutors and bureaucrats using statutes to enact its will and impose its will on the American people without votes.
00:10:22.000 Christina Wong tweeted on November 8th, 2016: Hey, Trump supporters, skip poll lines at election 2016 and text in your vote.
00:10:30.000 Text votes are legit or vote tomorrow on Super Wednesday.
00:10:33.000 Christina Wong is still making jokes, was never investigated or indicted.
00:10:38.000 And Christina Wong continues living a free life.
00:10:41.000 Meanwhile, Douglas Mackey did the exact same thing, even less blunt, by the way.
00:10:47.000 And he is going to federal prison.
00:10:52.000 Hey, everybody, Charlie Kirk here.
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00:11:54.000 The website is meme defensefund.com.
00:11:57.000 Everyone should contribute, meme defensefund.com.
00:11:59.000 So, James, what is your approach for the appeal going to be?
00:12:03.000 First Amendment protections, Fifth Amendment protections.
00:12:05.000 What will your approach be for appeal?
00:12:08.000 Well, Doug's appellate team will undoubtedly raise arguments under the First, Fifth, and Sixth Amendments.
00:12:16.000 I mean, as the First Amendment issues have been talked about quite a bit.
00:12:23.000 The Fifth Amendment issues relate to the use of a very vague statute.
00:12:29.000 Again, as I mentioned in the opening segment, this is a law that was passed in 1871, and it is the text of the statute bars conspiracies to injure, quote unquote, to injure individuals in their exercise of protected rights.
00:12:51.000 And so, one of the arguments I'm sure his appellate team will make is that the statute itself is impermissibly ambiguous and vague and attack it on a void for vagueness challenge under the Fifth Amendment for lack of notice under the due process clause.
00:13:10.000 The Sixth Amendment issues relate to, among other things, Mr. Mackey's defense not being able to cross-examine a confidential government witness who was allowed to testify basically under SHIELD on the nature of that individual's ongoing relationship with the FBI.
00:13:34.000 Under the Sixth Amendment, criminal defendants have a right to cross-examine their accusers in public, in open court.
00:13:45.000 And one of the problems, among others, with this prosecution, is that Mr. Mackey didn't get to do that in violation of the Sixth Amendment.
00:13:53.000 And again, this is bedrock stuff.
00:13:55.000 I mean, this goes back to the right to confront your witnesses in public and open court.
00:14:01.000 It goes back to Sir Walter Raleigh, the namesake of my hometown, who was locked away in the Tower of London precisely because he could not cross-examine his witnesses in open court.
00:14:15.000 That's why we have the Sixth Amendment. 1.00
00:14:17.000 Yeah, no kidding.
00:14:18.000 So, and then I mentioned this before the break.
00:14:20.000 Is there an equal protection argument here, potentially?
00:14:24.000 I mean, they don't enforce this against Christina Wong, who has obviously did the exact same thing.
00:14:30.000 Right.
00:14:30.000 No, that's another avenue for sure is the selective prosecution.
00:14:39.000 Though defendants, in many cases, try that argument.
00:14:44.000 And certainly in this case, as you pointed out in the open, you've got similarly situated individuals engaged in similar conduct.
00:14:54.000 But I think that's a harder, harder case, a harder case to make than some of the other arguments.
00:15:00.000 That's just my own personal view of it.
00:15:03.000 But Doug's appellate team will handle all of that.
00:15:07.000 Yeah, the prosecutorial discretion that we give the federal government is remarkable.
00:15:11.000 James Lawrence, thank you so much.
00:15:12.000 MemeDefensefund.com.
00:15:14.000 Help out Douglas Mackey, a young man going to jail because he told a bad joke. 0.92
00:15:18.000 You are living in the Soviet Union. 0.98
00:15:20.000 James, thank you so much.
00:15:22.000 Thank you.
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00:16:49.000 Joining us now is Patrick Raffini, author of a book called Party of the People Inside the Multiracial Populist Coalition Remaking the GOP, pollster for echelon insights, echelon insights, and author of Party of the People.
00:17:04.000 Patrick, thank you so much for taking the time.
00:17:06.000 Patrick, your book confirms, and or the poll, I should say it differently, the poll this weekend from the New York Times confirms the thesis of your book.
00:17:14.000 That's a better way to frame it.
00:17:15.000 Tell us about your book and how also the data is confirming your hypothesis.
00:17:20.000 So my book is about how essentially the parties, the parties that we knew maybe when I was growing up, have just completely reversed themselves in terms of the Democrats used to be seen as this party of the working class, party of the people, really standing up for the blue-collar worker.
00:17:39.000 And really, ever since 2016, that really hasn't been true anymore.
00:17:43.000 You've seen this huge reversal in terms of working class voters increasingly voting Republican and voted for Trump in 2016.
00:17:52.000 And more so, a lot of these groups voted more so in 2020, including Latinos, African Americans.
00:18:00.000 Now, that looks to be, if this poll is correct, it's going to be like that on steroids in 2024.
00:18:08.000 When you look at Trump being at 22% of the black vote within eight among Hispanic voters, we really are seeing a realignment in our politics. 0.61
00:18:17.000 Yeah, so what is driving this?
00:18:19.000 Is it the Republicans' embrace of populist nationalist ideas, or is it a combination of academic fantasy ideas of white liberalism that don't resonate with non-college educated muscular class voters?
00:18:35.000 It is definitely a combination of both.
00:18:38.000 But I think that, you know, everything that we're seeing out of the college campuses over the last month suggests that the left has really learned nothing about how to moderate their message to appeal to the working class majority of the country who are not interested in these ideas of decolonialization,
00:19:05.000 of intersectionality, of things that are only ideas that only somebody with an advanced degree even could even fathom.
00:19:16.000 So I do think that they're just continuing to dig themselves a bigger hole.
00:19:21.000 And you go back to, it didn't used to be like this.
00:19:24.000 You go back to as recently as the 1990s.
00:19:27.000 And Bill Clinton, you know, a lot of Republicans didn't like Bill Clinton when he was president, but he is somebody who really moderated his message, said the era of big government is over, signed welfare reform, signed the Defense of Marriage Act.
00:19:40.000 All of these things that, you know, you could not see Joe Biden for all his like talk about for all the talk that he is somehow this sort of blue-collar working class Democrat.
00:19:52.000 He is just as beholden, I think, to the left as anyone.
00:19:58.000 And you just don't see that kind of Democrat anymore.
00:20:01.000 Why do you think that is?
00:20:03.000 Donald Trump obviously changed American politics.
00:20:05.000 That will be one of his longest-lasting legacies, is reshaping the Republican Party.
00:20:11.000 Democrats seem comfortable.
00:20:12.000 They don't seem as if they want to win over muscular class voters again.
00:20:17.000 They think they can create a fusion of the permanently government-addicted and the hyper-educated Boston elite.
00:20:26.000 Why is that?
00:20:28.000 Well, I think they're going to be then reduced to that elite.
00:20:33.000 That's what's starting to happen.
00:20:35.000 So, this idea is the Democratic Party has always been this coalition of folks who are, you know, these liberals, primarily white liberals, and African Americans, Hispanics, minority voters, right?
00:20:49.000 I mean, that has always been kind of the core of the Democratic coalition.
00:20:52.000 And now we're seeing that break apart, where significant chunks of voters in these minority communities have actually started to break off.
00:21:01.000 I know there's been talk about this for decades.
00:21:03.000 Conservatives have talked about this for decades, but it actually seems to be happening.
00:21:07.000 So, what's going on?
00:21:08.000 What's going on is a lot of these groups are actually better off.
00:21:12.000 So, under Donald Trump, Hispanic incomes rose 20%.
00:21:17.000 Asian American incomes rose 20%.
00:21:20.000 So, there's no longer the sense that they need to be dependent on the federal government.
00:21:26.000 You talk to people, I visited the Rio Grande Valley of South Texas, and you talk to people down there, and they want to get ahead by their own hard work and are very suspicious of anyone who is on government welfare benefits.
00:21:40.000 I mean, that is a really big concern when you talk to people down there.
00:21:44.000 You see who talk about like, why is there a Tesla in front of the unemployment office that shouldn't be happening?
00:21:51.000 So, it's a very different kind of politics that I think people on the left, and you know, frankly, some people on the right have assumed about these people.
00:21:59.000 They're achieving the American dream, they want to get ahead, and they realize the Democratic Party is not helping them get there.
00:22:05.000 So, let's just talk peer numbers in the states that matter: Georgia, Wisconsin, Arizona, maybe Pennsylvania.
00:22:12.000 If these trends continue and Republicans get near 50% or at least near an equilibrium within the margin of error with Hispanics and continue to do well with working class whites, but maybe do a little bit worse with upper middle-class white voters, what does that mean?
00:22:30.000 How significant is the growth in the multi-class, the multiracial middle class to just get one more vote than the other guy?
00:22:39.000 I mean, I think that what Trump showed in 2016 and why the election was so close in 2020 was the fact that this coalition of working class whites and the more African Americans, Latinos, punches above its weight in the electoral college.
00:22:56.000 You know, when it comes to the states that actually decide the election, not just the Russ Bell states of Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, but also states like Arizona, Georgia, Nevada.
00:23:08.000 You know, those states have tend to have fewer graduates than the blue states, where primarily all these college graduates, people with postgraduate degrees, people who are listening to the crazy ideas coming out of college campuses now, those are concentrated primarily in blue states.
00:23:27.000 That's why I think Trump or any Republican candidate would have an advantage in the electoral college by appealing and talking to these voters.
00:23:36.000 Yeah, if you look, so the state with the most college degrees is by far, by far, Massachusetts.
00:23:41.000 And it's that way every single year.
00:23:43.000 I mean, with Boston and all that.
00:23:44.000 And then Colorado is right up there.
00:23:46.000 It's the second.
00:23:47.000 And then it goes Vermont, New Jersey, Maryland, Connecticut.
00:23:50.000 These are traditionally Democrat states.
00:23:53.000 And then you go from the bottom up, the ones that have the least college education. 1.00
00:23:56.000 By the way, that doesn't mean they're stupid. 0.99
00:23:58.000 I don't have a college degree. 0.99
00:23:59.000 What it means, though, is that they have different professions.
00:24:01.000 They'll work with their hands, plumbers, electricians, carpenters, oil fields, entrepreneurs.
00:24:06.000 It's not an indictment of their intelligence.
00:24:09.000 And they also, but most importantly, Patrick, author of Party of the People, different value systems.
00:24:16.000 That is absolutely right.
00:24:17.000 This is a group that has never, you know, they have never had anything handed to them.
00:24:22.000 They've had to work for what they have.
00:24:24.000 And I think that just they're unified, united by a common sense value system, even if they don't vote Republican.
00:24:32.000 And I think that, you know, you particularly talk to, try talking, I think, about the Green New Deal or this green transition idea within these minority communities.
00:24:46.000 And the polling is pretty clear on that.
00:24:48.000 That when it comes to, you know, people, you know, really saying, you know, all this stuff about global warming is nice.
00:24:56.000 And you hear this in focus groups a lot, but it doesn't help me put food on the table.
00:25:00.000 And I think the real trigger, as much as, you know, as much as Republicans want to pat themselves on the back for realigning these voters, the real trigger for this has been the absolute failure of the Biden administration to bring down inflation meaningfully.
00:25:17.000 And the fact that we've had so much inflation has really hit these voters particularly, really hard in the wallet.
00:25:26.000 And these are the voters who are actually paying attention to performance.
00:25:29.000 You know, I think if you have a college degree, it doesn't necessarily mean you have more accurate ideas about politics or the world, because I think you're primarily, you're very partisan and you're voting.
00:25:42.000 You know, I think you're very committed to existing your existing ideology and whatever information comes out, you know, really just is going to push you in one direction or the other.
00:25:54.000 This multiracial populist coalition is very pragmatic, is very common sense, and they can see what's happening.
00:26:03.000 I want to keep on diving into this.
00:26:05.000 Does the working multiracial class you're talking about, if the Republican Party were to go to all of a sudden and nominate like a Mitt Romney or somebody like that, they wouldn't necessarily be on board for that, correct?
00:26:18.000 Well, I think that is, it's a little bit, I think we are not going back to that kind of Republican Party.
00:26:24.000 That said, I do think that there are a number of candidates running who could, by and large, capitalize on this, on these trends.
00:26:33.000 And you see it in a place like Virginia with Glenn Young, you know, who did really well.
00:26:39.000 And we'll see, you know, in the election tomorrow, you know, how well his candidates do.
00:26:43.000 But I do think that, you know, we are permanently on a trajectory, I think, here where people are going to have to, you know, Republicans are going to have to realize, you know, it's not, you know, it's not going to be the case that you're fully going to go back to where we were before Trump.
00:27:01.000 And I think people in the establishment need to understand that too.
00:27:06.000 Hey, everybody, Charlie Kirk here.
00:27:07.000 Aren't you tired of not making a difference?
00:27:09.000 You can.
00:27:10.000 We can make a difference standing for life by giving free ultrasounds with our friends at pre-born. 0.76
00:27:15.000 In a Dobbs world, states decide about abortion, and so many liberal states are taking extreme stands, even allowing abortion up to literally the second before a baby is born. 0.76
00:27:24.000 It's unbelievable, but true. 0.86
00:27:26.000 And in California, the demand for abortions has increased 400% in part because the state is inviting women and girls to come to California for the sole purpose of aborting their baby.
00:27:36.000 This is abortion trafficking. 0.58
00:27:38.000 Take a stand for life by providing an ultrasound for a young woman.
00:27:42.000 When you do, she is twice as likely to choose life. 0.89
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00:28:03.000 That is charliekirk.com and click on the pre-born banner.
00:28:08.000 So, Patrick, if you were advising the Republican Party to go into 2024, there is an open question.
00:28:14.000 Do you try to run up the score and the rules and go straight working class voter?
00:28:19.000 Or do we just kind of forget the upper middle class suburban type voter?
00:28:24.000 Or is it a balance of both for every messaging you do towards suburban?
00:28:29.000 You might turn off some of the working class folks, or there are issues that can bridge the divide.
00:28:34.000 What would you say, Patrick Raffini?
00:28:37.000 I think you always have to look at the issues that will bridge the divide because you're going to kill two birds with one stone that way.
00:28:43.000 But what I do think that right now, people are very concerned about the border.
00:28:48.000 People are very concerned about the economy and the state, the continued high inflation, the fact that prices are 20% higher than they were when Joe Biden was inaugurated.
00:28:59.000 People are concerned about crime.
00:29:01.000 We used to think about a lot of those issues as base issues, but the failure on those issues has been so great that those are not just base issues anymore.
00:29:12.000 Those are issues that really resonate across the spectrum with independents, moderates, and they also resonate with Hispanics and African Americans, too, especially.
00:29:23.000 So I think we have plenty of issues.
00:29:27.000 If we can stay focused, I think, on those three issues, I think Republicans are going to be in good shape.
00:29:33.000 Yeah.
00:29:34.000 And I mean, so the other question I have for you is that can another candidate other than Trump continue a multiracial type working class coalition?
00:29:45.000 We've seen a little bit of evidence of that with DeSantis in 2022, but it hasn't really been replicated.
00:29:51.000 It seems as if rural turnout dives a little bit.
00:29:53.000 That kind of mystery voter is hard to replicate.
00:29:56.000 Can it be done?
00:29:58.000 I think it can.
00:29:59.000 I think it can in the sense of, yeah, you have seen it.
00:30:04.000 You definitely have seen it with DeSantis.
00:30:06.000 You've seen it with a candidate like I mentioned Yunkin as well.
00:30:13.000 I do think that, you know, in the sense of, you know, I mean, you may have, and when you have candidates like, look, I mean, MAGA was not a huge fan of Brian Kemp, but in Georgia, he carried that state in a landslide, really.
00:30:28.000 He carried by eight points and he won in all the places Trump won, but he added back some of those suburban voters.
00:30:37.000 So, yeah, I think that any of these candidates, I think, could win.
00:30:42.000 I think they each bring slightly different strengths to the table.
00:30:46.000 Yeah, I mean, look, I'm not a fan of Kemp, but you're right.
00:30:48.000 In some ways, he shows how to win Georgia, which is you don't totally tick off the rules.
00:30:53.000 You don't do as well as Trump, but you do better in Buckhead.
00:30:55.000 You do better in Augusta.
00:30:57.000 So let me ask you: Echelon has some of the most accurate polling.
00:31:01.000 You guys were one of the most five most accurate pollsters in 2022.
00:31:06.000 Do you find this New York Times poll to be consistent with what you are seeing?
00:31:10.000 Or you know which one I'm talking about, it's one of the weekend or a little bit more, let's just say, exaggerated than the trend.
00:31:19.000 Well, I think that, look, I'm going to be cautious and say it's a little good. 0.84
00:31:24.000 It seems a little good, but it's broadly consistent with the trends you're seeing, which is erosion of the non-white base of the Democratic Party, especially if they really go through with this and really make Joe Biden run again, right? 0.97
00:31:41.000 So I do think that it is broadly consistent. 0.83
00:31:47.000 And maybe it's a couple points too optimistic.
00:31:53.000 Just being the cautious person that I am on some of these polls, but I do think that we should be paying attention, very close to touch these numbers.
00:32:03.000 They are anyone more accurate than Epsilon.
00:32:06.000 It is the New York Times Sienna poll.
00:32:08.000 Patrick, if you were a Democrat and giving advice to Democrats, what would you tell them in one year, well, less than one year to fix this?
00:32:14.000 They got a major problem.
00:32:16.000 I think that you need to stop listening to the far left. 1.00
00:32:22.000 And it's happening right now with this Palestine. 0.90
00:32:26.000 I think that is emblematic of a broader problem is that they are not focused on the middle of the electorate. 0.97
00:32:35.000 They are purely focused on how can we stop this bleeding in our base right now.
00:32:40.000 But I think if they do it by going to the left, they're only going to further alienate that base because that base of people is not these young liberal activists.
00:32:49.000 It is African American voters, is Latino voters.
00:32:53.000 It is voters who have far more moderate views on issues. 0.99
00:32:57.000 And if they don't pay attention to that, you know, they're going to have the worst of both worlds.
00:33:02.000 Patrick Raffini, check out his book, The Party of the People Inside the Multiracial Populist Coalition Remaking the GOP.
00:33:08.000 Patrick, thanks so much.
00:33:09.000 Thanks so much, Charlie.
00:33:10.000 There will be armies of hardhouts voting for Trump in 24.
00:33:14.000 Democrats have a problem.
00:33:16.000 I'm not saying we're going to win, but it's going to be within a couple thousand votes here, a couple thousand votes there.
00:33:21.000 Get to work, everybody.
00:33:22.000 Action, action, action.
00:33:24.000 Thanks so much for listening.
00:33:25.000 Everybody, email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.
00:33:29.000 Thanks so much for listening.
00:33:30.000 God bless.
00:33:36.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.