The Charlie Kirk Show - "Should Women Be Pastors?" and Other Questions On the State of the Church

00:00:00.000 Hey everybody, Charlie Kirk here, live from the Bitcoin.com studio.

00:00:04.000 Allie B. Stuckey and I, we discussed the state of the church, whether or not women should be pastors.

00:00:09.000 Ooh, you're going to want to listen to this.

00:00:10.000 And more.

00:00:11.000 Allie B. Stuckey is one of my favorite voices in the Christian space, especially from a female perspective.

00:00:17.000 Email us, as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

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00:00:21.000 That's the Charlie Kirk Show podcast page.

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00:00:34.000 Buckle up, everybody.

00:00:35.000 Here we go.

00:00:36.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:38.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

00:00:40.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

00:00:43.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:00:47.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:00:48.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:00:49.000 His spirit, his love of this country.

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00:00:57.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

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00:01:34.000 I drink coffee with no caffeine.

00:01:37.000 So you drink decaf coffee with almond milk?

00:01:39.000 No, not even decaf.

00:01:40.000 Like purified coffee.

00:01:42.000 I don't know what this is.

00:01:43.000 This is like literally they like cleanse the beans.

00:01:46.000 There's no caffeine.

00:01:47.000 Okay, so this is for the why?

00:01:50.000 Well, caffeine, like it's a crazy thing.

00:01:52.000 I used to drink so much caffeine and I would get like very, very jittery.

00:01:57.000 Yeah.

00:01:57.000 So then I just cut it all off.

00:01:58.000 But I love the taste of coffee.

00:01:59.000 Okay, that's what I was going to ask.

00:02:00.000 You just like the taste of it.

00:02:02.000 And it's good for your antioxidants too.

00:02:03.000 Okay.

00:02:04.000 Wow.

00:02:05.000 It works for me.

00:02:06.000 Respect.

00:02:06.000 No caffeine.

00:02:07.000 Ever.

00:02:08.000 Not even Diet Coke.

00:02:09.000 No, but like, I literally, no Diet Coke ever.

00:02:12.000 Yeah.

00:02:12.000 Diet Coke's not good for you.

00:02:13.000 I like tea, though.

00:02:14.000 Does the president know that you know this?

00:02:17.000 I have been impressed by his Diet Coke consumption.

00:02:19.000 Okay.

00:02:20.000 It's amazing.

00:02:21.000 Wow.

00:02:21.000 It makes him younger.

00:02:22.000 Yeah, I guess so.

00:02:23.000 There's got to be something in it.

00:02:24.000 There's something.

00:02:25.000 The youth elixir.

00:02:26.000 How are your kids?

00:02:27.000 They're all good.

00:02:28.000 Gosh, they grow so fast.

00:02:30.000 Have you realized that?

00:02:31.000 You don't do faces on social, right?

00:02:33.000 No, but I don't do anything on social.

00:02:35.000 Nor do we.

00:02:35.000 Do you do ages?

00:02:35.000 Not even names.

00:02:36.000 Ages? 0.81

00:02:37.000 People know ages because they've been following me since.

00:02:39.000 Yes.

00:02:40.000 I got that from you just, by the way.

00:02:41.000 Oh, really?

00:02:42.000 So tell you, why do you do that?

00:02:44.000 Yeah.

00:02:44.000 I mean, you know, there's so many weirdos and there are so many things nowadays that you can do with a child's image, that you can do with information about a child.

00:02:52.000 And I just wanted as little info about them in the world as possible.

00:02:56.000 So people know I have three girls. 0.79

00:02:58.000 They know about their ages and that's it.

00:03:01.000 Three girls.

00:03:02.000 Amazing.

00:03:02.000 I know.

00:03:02.000 It's super fun.

00:03:03.000 Yeah, so we have a girl and a boy.

00:03:05.000 Yes.

00:03:06.000 And it's no one's business who their names are, what their names are, right?

00:03:09.000 Yeah.

00:03:09.000 Or their faces.

00:03:11.000 Yeah.

00:03:11.000 Can you already tell the difference between little boys and little girls?

00:03:14.000 Obviously, we already knew, but just in men.

00:03:16.000 No, I mean, it's like, it's so funny.

00:03:18.000 I said to Erica the other day, I said, anybody who does not believe in male-female differences obviously has not been a parent.

00:03:25.000 Yeah.

00:03:26.000 I mean, it's just, these are the childless clinicians that are running the academy.

00:03:30.000 Yeah.

00:03:42.000 Yeah.

00:03:42.000 Where my son, he gravitates towards destruction.

00:03:46.000 Yes.

00:03:47.000 And trying to get himself injured.

00:03:51.000 And getting hurt.

00:03:51.000 Yes.

00:03:52.000 Yeah, no, no.

00:03:52.000 The amount, the incident rate of pediatrician calls of son versus daughter.

00:04:00.000 It's like 10 to 1. And he's only held.

00:04:02.000 No, he's just turned 1. Oh, yes.

00:04:04.000 And he's an early walker at 10 months.

00:04:06.000 Okay.

00:04:06.000 And he will find a baseball bat and try to, like, terrorize his sister.

00:04:12.000 Already.

00:04:13.000 I was like, I didn't teach him that, right?

00:04:15.000 Yeah.

00:04:16.000 It's just instinct.

00:04:17.000 But other things, he's very gravitated towards balls.

00:04:19.000 Yeah.

00:04:19.000 He cannot sit, like, my daughter will sit still in color, you know, with a lot of dexterity, right?

00:04:25.000 Read a book.

00:04:26.000 Not with him.

00:04:27.000 It's constant movement.

00:04:28.000 Constant activity.

00:04:29.000 Constant stimulation.

00:04:31.000 And this is nature.

00:04:32.000 This is how God made them.

00:04:33.000 Yeah.

00:04:33.000 It's not nurture.

00:04:34.000 so I can see I can see the contrast whenever my nephews I'm like There's so much happening and I forget when I have my three little girls who love princesses and drawing and imagining things and building, you know, forts that turn into homes and everything turns into a baby.

00:04:55.000 Everything.

00:04:56.000 It can be a fork.

00:04:57.000 It can be a bottle.

00:04:58.000 Everything is a baby.

00:04:59.000 I forget that.

00:04:59.000 I love boys and maybe one day that we'll have a son too.

00:05:02.000 But yeah, just so different.

00:05:03.000 We're blessed with both.

00:05:05.000 And the contrast is beautiful.

00:05:06.000 I mean, look, if we had...

00:05:07.000 two girls, it'd be amazing to like, whatever the Lord, you know, uh, gives us is just, you know, But it's really remarkable to see how my daughter, being the older, already has maternal instincts towards her brother.

00:05:24.000 Takes care of him.

00:05:25.000 Exactly.

00:05:26.000 And looks after him.

00:05:27.000 So sweet.

00:05:28.000 Right?

00:05:28.000 And seeing siblings love each other, even if they do beat each other up one second, the next second, they're best friends.

00:05:34.000 That's really fun.

00:05:35.000 I think it's the closest thing we can see towards how God is pleased when we get along.

00:05:40.000 Yeah.

00:05:41.000 That's a really good point.

00:05:42.000 The closest thing that we can get to.

00:05:44.000 Because we don't want to see our kids fight.

00:05:46.000 I think it's similar to how God looks at us when we're fighting.

00:05:49.000 I mean, parenting just teaches you so much about how God sees you and what He wants for you.

00:05:54.000 And that's just another reason why people should have more kids because it aids your sanctification so much.

00:05:59.000 Talk more about that.

00:06:01.000 Well, it aids your sanctification in the same way that marriage does in that you are now sharing your interests and your priorities with another person.

00:06:09.000 You are now learning how to get along with other sinners who have their own desires and their own struggles and the things that they have to sacrifice.

00:06:19.000 And so it just causes you to move outside of yourself.

00:06:22.000 It causes you and really demands that you deny yourself, take up your cross and follow Christ.

00:06:27.000 And just the energy...

00:06:34.000 You need a lot of it.

00:06:36.000 And it's got to come from the Holy Spirit or else you're going to be overstimulated by the end of the day.

00:06:40.000 I will just say this.

00:06:41.000 Now being caffeine abstinent, it's actually very overrated.

00:06:45.000 Is Erica caffeine abstinent too?

00:06:47.000 She'll have a little bit of English breakfast tea.

00:06:50.000 Oh yeah, that's nothing.

00:06:51.000 But it doesn't give you energy.

00:06:53.000 It just suppresses your production of a denizen. 0.63

00:06:56.000 Yeah.

00:06:57.000 It doesn't give you...

00:07:01.000 This is interesting.

00:07:01.000 I have a whole health theory on this and Maha can disagree.

00:07:05.000 But do you know the one thing that does give you energy?

00:07:09.000 Hydration.

00:07:10.000 Oh.

00:07:10.000 If you drink a ton of water, No, no, no.

00:07:14.000 I'm just saying I wish we would talk about it more.

00:07:16.000 Oh, yeah.

00:07:16.000 I just think there's a lot on vaccines and raw milk and heavy metals.

00:07:20.000 But there's a couple...

00:07:22.000 I haven't heard this.

00:07:23.000 My whole health...

00:07:28.000 Yeah.

00:07:28.000 You don't need, like, to buy a cold plunge.

00:07:30.000 You know, like, that stuff's fine.

00:07:31.000 The two superpowers that I have is I'm big on sleep and big on drinking water.

00:07:37.000 Wow.

00:07:37.000 Pretty simple, right?

00:07:38.000 Yeah.

00:07:39.000 And I think sleep is, like, the superpower that we don't have.

00:07:41.000 Okay.

00:07:41.000 I'm curious.

00:07:42.000 How do you prioritize sleep with your travel schedule and everything you have to do?

00:07:45.000 It's very hard.

00:07:46.000 First of all, Erica's a champ. 0.99

00:07:47.000 She's the one that gets up at night.

00:07:48.000 Yeah.

00:07:49.000 Right?

00:07:49.000 She just lets me sleep.

00:07:51.000 No alcohol helps a lot with sleep, actually.

00:07:53.000 And so that's really important.

00:07:55.000 But also, I'm really hawkish about turning off the phone at a certain time because then you just start melatonin production.

00:08:02.000 And if you want to fall asleep and you make it a priority, you could do it.

00:08:09.000 And so it's like, I just go to bed early.

00:08:10.000 I don't watch evening TV at all.

00:08:13.000 I go to bed at like 9. And then, okay, if you wake up at 5.30, you're rested enough.

00:08:17.000 Yeah.

00:08:18.000 Right?

00:08:18.000 So you just shut it off.

00:08:19.000 Shut it off.

00:08:20.000 And then the other key is I started doing this a while ago and it's worked.

00:08:24.000 It's an eye mask.

00:08:25.000 Oh, really?

00:08:26.000 I've tried that.

00:08:27.000 If you get used to the sensation, it's so good because if you learn the science of it, darkness makes your body produce melatonin.

00:08:35.000 Yeah.

00:08:36.000 So you are like, you are, you're suffocating your eyes in darkness that the melatonin rate that you're producing is like through the roof.

00:08:43.000 Okay.

00:08:43.000 I didn't know that either.

00:08:45.000 Learning so much from Maha Charlie.

00:08:47.000 Maha, yeah, that's right.

00:08:48.000 And again, as Erica deserves all the credit because, and look, you know what it's like, you know, raising kids, have to produce content, travel. 1.00

00:08:56.000 Yeah.

00:08:57.000 I don't do well in three hours of sleep.

00:08:58.000 That's not.

00:08:59.000 No, I don't know very many people that do.

00:09:00.000 I guess some people do.

00:09:01.000 The president.

00:09:02.000 Yeah, I guess.

00:09:03.000 Does he only get three hours, you think?

00:09:04.000 He gets three to four hours.

00:09:05.000 And I can say that from firsthand experience and also his sons and Ivanka's told me.

00:09:10.000 And one day we will know.

00:09:12.000 We will test the golden hair, which is that there is a well-known documented genetic mutation.

00:09:20.000 Of, like, one in 100,000 people that just don't need more than, like, an hour and a half of sleep.

00:09:26.000 Yeah.

00:09:26.000 Well, he doesn't seem like he does.

00:09:27.000 I think he has that.

00:09:28.000 Like, it exists.

00:09:30.000 It's real.

00:09:30.000 Because sleep actually is just the brain cleaning itself.

00:09:33.000 Yeah.

00:09:34.000 There's, like, there's some physical, you know, benefits, but, like, some brains just don't need it.

00:09:40.000 Yeah.

00:09:40.000 Yeah, that's amazing.

00:09:42.000 I guess that's why.

00:09:43.000 Yeah, not me either.

00:09:46.000 Hey everyone, Charlie Kirk here.

00:09:48.000 You worked hard, raised your family, paid your taxes, and followed the rules, and now you're watching the country you love being torn apart by the radical left.

00:09:55.000 You're asking, what can I do?

00:09:56.000 Well, you're not alone, and you're not powerless.

00:09:58.000 President Trump is back in the White House, and he's taking bold action fixing trade with tariffs that actually help American workers, cutting government waste and standing up for Christian values.

00:10:07.000 But he can't win this fight without you.

00:10:09.000 That's why I want you to join AMAC, the organization for patriotic Americans over 50 who still believe in America.

00:10:15.000 AMAC stands for your values, freedom, faith, and fiscal sanity, and it's just $16 a year.

00:10:20.000 You'll get a subscription to the AMAC Magazine, access to exclusive money-saving discounts, and most importantly, you'll be part of something bigger than yourself.

00:10:28.000 Go to amac.us slash charlie, that is amac.us slash charlie, and join the fight to save this country.

00:10:34.000 Let's do this together.

00:10:37.000 I hear from young ladies on campus all the time, Charlie, I don't want to get married because I want to prioritize my sleep.

00:10:44.000 I don't have kids, and I'm the most important thing in the world.

00:10:47.000 And so you're like one of the most important, I have to compliment you, female voices out there in Christianity.

00:10:54.000 I know how to speak to young men, sort of young women, not really, but like how do I even respond to the me, me, me selfish narcissism that I encounter so much?

00:11:04.000 I think that I would probably ask that person, are you happy?

00:11:08.000 Because most people who say, I prioritize me, I want to put myself first, I want to do what feels good, those people typically aren't happy.

00:11:16.000 Those people typically really struggle with deep depression and anxiety and discontentment and poor relationships and toxic friendships and all of these problems, but they're constantly being fed a message that the problem isn't you, the problem is everything else.

00:11:32.000 And once you get rid of all of these toxic factors in your life and you truly find yourself and discover yourself, You'll fill yourself and put yourself first.

00:11:40.000 Then you'll kind of be liberated from your depression and anxiety.

00:11:43.000 But as I've said a lot, the self can't be both the problem and the solution.

00:11:47.000 You're trying to solve the problem that you're finding inside yourself with yourself, and that's illogical, and it's ineffective.

00:11:54.000 It never works.

00:11:55.000 So that's probably where I would start, just talking to them about how they feel, which every girl likes to talk about that.

00:12:01.000 That is true.

00:12:02.000 I'm writing this down.

00:12:03.000 That's really smart.

00:12:04.000 The self can't be both the problem and the solution.

00:12:07.000 Yes.

00:12:08.000 So we both know what the solution is.

00:12:09.000 The solution is the cross.

00:12:10.000 The solution is Christ.

00:12:12.000 And so I find this manifested to the surface most quickly on the abortion argument.

00:12:19.000 Because if I'm debating a man on abortion, it's actually very different.

00:12:23.000 He'll try to get me on reason or scientific technicality, of which there is none.

00:12:28.000 Yeah.

00:12:29.000 But a young lady is, how dare you tell me that I am in charge of my own dominion and I feel as if I should be? 0.97

00:12:38.000 It's a very different type of line.

00:12:40.000 And so is that really the root of why America's embraced abortion so much?

00:12:51.000 And I argue that the God of self has two highest values, and those two high values are autonomy and authenticity.

00:12:59.000 Now, autonomy and authenticity, just like empathy, and we can get into this, can be good values when they are submitted to absolute truth.

00:13:08.000 But when they're not, when they are your absolute values, they're justifications for sin.

00:13:12.000 So autonomy becomes a justification for sin when you say, well, I control myself, I control my body, so much so that you're literally, Authenticity can become this bad value when you say, well, I want to be true to myself, so I'm going to allow my self-identity to trump physical reality or my biology.

00:13:36.000 And so those two main values that the God of self hoists up as supreme, authenticity and autonomy, are really used as justifications of all kinds of depravity.

00:13:50.000 Something you're really effective at, I don't know, I'm loud, I don't know how effective I am, is calling out the church and their failing of identifying this.

00:14:00.000 What is the state in your estimation of the modern American Christian?

00:14:04.000 No, you're really good at talking about this.

00:14:07.000 Loudly.

00:14:08.000 I don't know, effectively.

00:14:08.000 No, definitely effectively.

00:14:10.000 I mean, there are more people now that are effectively talking about it.

00:14:14.000 I'm sure you've talked about Megan Basham.

00:14:16.000 She's amazing.

00:14:17.000 We should pray for her.

00:14:18.000 I don't know how she's doing health-wise.

00:14:19.000 Yes, she just finished chemotherapy.

00:14:21.000 I hope it's a success.

00:14:22.000 Yes, she's starting to feel better and better.

00:14:24.000 Praise the Lord.

00:14:24.000 She's awesome.

00:14:25.000 Absolutely pray for her.

00:14:26.000 She's great.

00:14:27.000 And just the spiritual battle that she is waging as well.

00:14:29.000 I mean, she uncovers a lot of the funding behind these very insidious groups.

00:14:57.000 They hate Donald Trump.

00:14:59.000 They hate Republicans.

00:15:00.000 They think that the left is definitely more biblical than the right.

00:15:03.000 And so what these institutions are very sneakily doing, they're coming into the church and they're saying, Pastor, you're tired.

00:15:09.000 You're tired of the division.

00:15:11.000 You're tired of the stress of politics and the left-right division in your church.

00:15:17.000 Let us help you unify your congregants.

00:15:19.000 Let us walk you through how you can lead your congregation through the next election and these political issues.

00:15:26.000 But how they're doing that is by saying, well, abortion is nuanced, so don't talk about it.

00:15:32.000 Gender is really, you know, it can be offensive to the image bearers in your And you're a congregation, so don't say that gender is binary.

00:15:41.000 So they exist to try to make theologically conservative churches politically progressive, and I don't know how effective they are at doing that right now, but you could see how it'd be persuasive for the mushy middle.

00:15:54.000 Yeah, so there's three types of churches.

00:15:57.000 There's true churches, which is the type you and I go to and that we speak at.

00:16:01.000 There's trembling churches, those that are, like, always shaking like a leaf.

00:16:04.000 Then there's traitorous.

00:16:05.000 You and I both know the traitorous ones.

00:16:07.000 Gay pride flags are in a church.

00:16:08.000 The trembling is the majority, unfortunately.

00:16:10.000 Yes, totally.

00:16:14.000 Has it gotten better since COVID?

00:16:16.000 Because we're talking about it more.

00:16:18.000 Yeah, I think so.

00:16:20.000 I think if COVID happened- I think you're right.

00:16:21.000 I think 10% better?

00:16:23.000 Yes.

00:16:23.000 I think if COVID happened today, you would have fewer churches shut their doors.

00:16:27.000 I think that's right.

00:16:27.000 Because, I mean, you've got to have some people who are willing to be first, who are willing to say, you know what?

00:16:32.000 Y 'all are going to call me all these kinds of names.

00:16:34.000 I don't care what you call me.

00:16:35.000 I'm going to stand up because this is right.

00:16:37.000 That gives other people cover.

00:16:39.000 We shouldn't be the kind of people who are so cowardly that we need that cover, but we probably all have times in our lives when we have.

00:16:46.000 So, yes, now I think that churches are maybe a little bit bolder, but gosh, I still want more clarity from the pulpit.

00:16:53.000 Totally.

00:16:53.000 Especially about the issues that they call political but are really just primarily biblical.

00:16:58.000 I even think there's a place for pastors to talk about the biblical principles of immigration.

00:17:03.000 I don't have to talk about the news every Sunday.

00:17:08.000 But the Bible isn't silent on that subject.

00:17:10.000 It's actually very loud on it.

00:17:11.000 Yes.

00:17:12.000 Talks about it a lot.

00:17:13.000 And yes, it's not just loving the foreigner, which we should, but also about biblical boundaries and borders.

00:17:18.000 And there's two words for immigrant actually used in Hebrew.

00:17:21.000 I think it's like care and ver.

00:17:22.000 I could be wrong, but like there are two different words, those that assimilate and do not assimilate.

00:17:26.000 Yeah.

00:17:26.000 So I have a provocative question for you.

00:17:28.000 I know how you're going to answer, but you can talk about it more freely than I can.

00:17:31.000 Should women be pastors? 1.00

00:17:33.000 I don't think so.

00:17:34.000 No, I don't think that women should be pastors, and I don't think that they should preach from the pulpit on Sunday mornings. 1.00

00:17:40.000 Obviously, I don't believe that women shouldn't be Bible study leaders or that we shouldn't speak at all or that we shouldn't have podcasts.

00:17:46.000 I think there are lots of wonderful places for women to speak and to teach. 0.70

00:17:51.000 But it seems to me that when Paul says that women shouldn't teach, and he's talking about in the context of the local church, and then he goes all the way back to creation for his reasoning, he doesn't say, well, this is something that's happening in your life.

00:18:02.000 church culturally right now.

00:18:04.000 It's probably not happening later.

00:18:05.000 He says, actually, it's because you've sinned first and then Adam.

00:18:09.000 I don't know exactly what that means.

00:18:12.000 I don't know everything that he means there, but if he's going back to something that is still true today, it seems like the directive is still for today, too.

00:18:22.000 How is that your opinion received?

00:18:25.000 You know, even on the conservative side, it's not necessarily received well.

00:18:29.000 Although I do have friends, we realize this is not a salvation issue, but we do disagree on it.

00:18:35.000 But we'll get in our back and forth sometimes about that subject.

00:18:38.000 So it's mixed.

00:18:39.000 Yeah, it's mixed.

00:18:40.000 And of course, there are people on the left hand, but I don't even think about what their opinion is.

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00:19:48.000 Who is the greatest Bible teacher alive today?

00:19:52.000 Ooh, that's a great question.

00:19:55.000 I think I know what you're going to say.

00:19:57.000 Oh, yeah, I bet you know what I'm going to say.

00:20:00.000 I was going to say John MacArthur.

00:20:01.000 Yes, he's the man.

00:20:03.000 Yeah, I was going to say that, but I mean, there's a lot of good ones.

00:20:06.000 No, I know, but like he's a legend.

00:20:08.000 Yeah.

00:20:08.000 I mean, I could just listen to his sermons and yeah, there are a few people like that that I could listen to on repeat.

00:20:14.000 Yeah.

00:20:14.000 And so what, And it's important, right?

00:20:17.000 Because we should articulate, like, why is he a legend?

00:20:20.000 Yeah.

00:20:21.000 And how do we get more of this next generation to be in that mold?

00:20:27.000 Unafraid.

00:20:27.000 That's the thing I think of.

00:20:28.000 Unafraid.

00:20:29.000 Totally undeterred by culture at all.

00:20:32.000 Does not care one bit what you call him.

00:20:35.000 He wants to know, what does the Bible say?

00:20:37.000 And if the Bible says it, I'm going to say it, and I'm not going to nuance it or apologize for it.

00:20:43.000 Because most pastors, they would never say this, but a lot of Christians do think that they're nicer than God.

00:20:49.000 And so they think they can out love, out mercy, out compassion God by not saying what God says.

00:20:57.000 Well, God doesn't need to be- I'm a better person than God.

00:20:59.000 Oh, totally.

00:21:00.000 And John MacArthur knows that that's not true.

00:21:02.000 I also would use- I totally agree with that.

00:21:04.000 So I've bought- Erica jokes, we get these packages delivered to our house.

00:21:10.000 She said, enough, because I buy so many books, right?

00:21:12.000 I know.

00:21:12.000 So does my husband.

00:21:13.000 He buys so many books.

00:21:14.000 And I don't read them all.

00:21:15.000 And that's what he's- This is an important thing.

00:21:18.000 I say it often in my podcast, but people, they don't listen to everything, obviously.

00:21:21.000 It is important that your children are raised in a home where books are around.

00:21:27.000 Yes.

00:21:27.000 They are displayed proudly and openly.

00:21:30.000 And that at least they, even if they're like taking the books and they're throwing and they're drawing on them, the kinetic memory that the parents value learning is a very important thing.

00:21:40.000 I got this from Dennis Prager.

00:21:41.000 Yeah.

00:21:42.000 Which is that like my earliest memories, my parents would have books everywhere.

00:21:46.000 Yeah.

00:21:46.000 And it's important that at least it's established that, hey, this is something Yeah, that's so good.

00:21:55.000 I have these huge books of John.

00:21:57.000 I have a whole John MacArthur section.

00:21:58.000 You do?

00:21:59.000 I love that.

00:22:00.000 And when you read these commentaries, so whenever I ever read a Bible verse, I'm like, I don't get it.

00:22:07.000 I go to my John MacArthur commentary.

00:22:10.000 And I mean, I would say he is so deep.

00:22:14.000 In a way that most modern evangelical pastors are not, so studied.

00:22:18.000 Like, for example, there's a scripture that's very, very hard on its surface, which is like, you must hate your mother.

00:22:24.000 Yeah.

00:22:24.000 Like, it's very hard.

00:22:26.000 Read the John MacArthur single.

00:22:26.000 Okay, well, you must understand the word hate in the Hebrew context is to choose between two, but not to have scorn towards another.

00:22:35.000 Like, okay, it's like, wow, thank you for that.

00:22:37.000 Yeah.

00:22:38.000 And so, but then he goes into this like five-page explanation, right?

00:22:43.000 And do you think most modern evangelical, like skinny-jean-wearing pastors are doing deep study?

00:22:50.000 No, I think a lot of them are passing around each other's sermons.

00:22:53.000 The ChatGPT sermons.

00:22:54.000 Well, yeah, and I think that they are – not that we can't learn from other people, but I think a lot of sermons today are probably recycled.

00:23:02.000 Yeah.

00:23:03.000 And John MacArthur, also the interesting thing about him, for those who don't know, he's in Southern California.

00:23:07.000 It's not like he's in Kentucky.

00:23:09.000 He's not in the Bible Belt.

00:23:11.000 I mean, he's been warring against culture just by standing for what the Word of God says.

00:23:15.000 You know, have you ever watched his debates between him and Gavin Newsom?

00:23:19.000 Oh, I have to.

00:23:20.000 No, I haven't.

00:23:21.000 Oh, yeah.

00:23:21.000 On CNN, he used to go at it between Gavin Newsom.

00:23:24.000 Back when Gavin Newsom pretended to be like a devout Catholic, and he would say like, wait, don't you know what the Roman Catholic Church teaches on marriage?

00:23:32.000 And he's like, well, I, you know, how Gavin Newsom is.

00:23:36.000 You know exactly.

00:23:37.000 But they used to go at it.

00:23:39.000 And so, yeah, you should watch that.

00:23:41.000 John MacArthur, I know he's not well, but he's still, you know, he's still preaching.

00:23:46.000 He passed the COVID test.

00:23:48.000 Yeah, he did.

00:23:49.000 And so many guys did not.

00:23:50.000 Yep.

00:23:51.000 They stayed open.

00:23:52.000 Why is that?

00:23:52.000 And they defied Gavin.

00:23:53.000 Why is it?

00:23:54.000 I mean, I'm sure you think about this a lot.

00:23:56.000 Why is that so many pastors tend to not finish well?

00:23:59.000 That is a biblical...

00:24:03.000 Solomon didn't finish well.

00:24:05.000 Finishing well is very, very rare.

00:24:07.000 You know who comes to mind first in that?

00:24:09.000 I mean, especially when we're talking about COVID.

00:24:10.000 I just think of Andy Stanley and just the legacy of Charles Stanley, which stands so tall and is so amazing, and how he is compromised, especially on the COVID thing.

00:24:20.000 He said at Liberty Convocation in 2020, which he did virtually, maybe not in January, but that year he said, You know, it's funny.

00:24:38.000 He texted me because I was attacking him relentlessly.

00:24:40.000 We talked on the phone.

00:24:41.000 Oh, really?

00:24:42.000 Yeah.

00:24:42.000 And I did.

00:24:43.000 I agreed.

00:24:43.000 I was like, look, I'll lay off for a while.

00:24:45.000 And I did because I try to be a man of my word.

00:24:47.000 And he was basically like, hey, can you please stop talking about me?

00:24:51.000 And I was like, yeah, I guess.

00:24:53.000 Like, fine.

00:24:54.000 And, you know, at least my opinion is like I want to establish a dialogue.

00:24:57.000 If people want to talk, I never want to be closed off to that.

00:25:01.000 Yeah, I agree.

00:25:01.000 And I did promise him next time I was in Atlanta I want to sit down with him because I know that sounds like cheap.

00:25:07.000 I actually – I'm like infinitely curious how he says the stuff he says as a pastor.

00:25:12.000 Like, oh, the Old Testament, you know, we don't need that.

00:25:15.000 Unhitch.

00:25:15.000 Yeah.

00:25:17.000 And he's really compromised on the LGBTQ issue.

00:25:19.000 To me, that's the biggest one.

00:25:20.000 And I called him out on that and he's like, no, no, no, I'm not.

00:25:22.000 Yeah.

00:25:23.000 And it's like, okay, it's like, how is...

00:25:26.000 and he's never reached out to me.

00:25:30.000 I know.

00:25:30.000 Well, yeah.

00:25:32.000 Maybe if I had, like, Charlie Kirk-level platform, he'd be like, uh-oh.

00:25:35.000 Trust me.

00:25:36.000 He has a whole war room that, like, listens to my stuff.

00:25:38.000 Yeah.

00:25:39.000 So this will get to us.

00:25:40.000 If you could tell one thing to him, because he's definitely going to listen to this, what would that be?

00:25:43.000 You're not nicer than God.

00:25:44.000 You don't need to apologize for Romans 1. You don't need to apologize for 1 Corinthians 6. You don't need to apologize for the so-called clobbered passages.

00:25:52.000 Let me tell you, it's not just about those one or two verses.

00:25:56.000 He says that homosexuality is different than other sins.

00:25:58.000 It's not different than other sins.

00:26:00.000 Jesus died for homosexual sins just as much as he died for any other sins. 0.89

00:26:05.000 This is what I say.

00:26:06.000 For people who say, It's just about these verses.

00:26:13.000 Here's the alliteration I use.

00:26:14.000 I'll go through it quickly.

00:26:16.000 I say the definition of marriage in the Bible, even if you took out all the negative verses about homosexuality, it's rooted in creation.

00:26:24.000 It's reiterated throughout scripture.

00:26:26.000 It's repeated by Jesus himself.

00:26:28.000 It is representative of Christ in the church, and therefore it is reflective of the gospel.

00:26:33.000 And I could go through all the biblical references to support all of those, and I have many times on my show, but it'll take a long time.

00:26:40.000 Those five R's are how we have to remember why it is so important to get the definition of marriage right, because when people start denying Genesis 127, they eventually deny John 14, 6, that Jesus is the way, the truth of life, that no one comes to the Father except through him. 0.88

00:26:57.000 I hope that doesn't happen to Andy Stanley, but he's compromised so much on this one issue and I think has probably actually burdened a lot of people who struggle with same-sex attraction rather than freeing them with the truth of the gospel.

00:27:08.000 First of all, that was so great.

00:27:09.000 I wish you were with me in Cambridge.

00:27:11.000 Oh, that was great, by the way.

00:27:13.000 You did a great job.

00:27:14.000 And in Jubilee too.

00:27:15.000 I watched both of them.

00:27:17.000 Thank you.

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00:27:25.000 And we go so viral on TikTok, we get billions and billions of views.

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00:28:21.000 The Cambridge one was, the Jubilee thing was hard, but it was the second hardest thing I've ever had to do.

00:28:27.000 The Cambridge thing was the hardest thing I've ever had to do.

00:28:29.000 Okay, can you tell, you've prioritized people.

00:28:31.000 Yeah, no, I actually haven't very much on air.

00:28:32.000 So, I mean.

00:28:33.000 So they're so deceitful, little snakes there, right?

00:28:36.000 So they're like, oh, let's go have a nice conversation at the Cambridge Union, right?

00:28:39.000 Yeah.

00:28:39.000 And so I had a feeling it was more than that because someone leaked an email to me that they were like, hey, come here to sign up to debate Charlie Kirk.

00:28:46.000 So they're advertising all this to do about it.

00:28:47.000 Not a conversation.

00:28:48.000 No.

00:28:48.000 And so I was like, okay, this is a little weird.

00:28:49.000 As soon as I show up, I could feel like in my spirit, I was like, okay.

00:28:53.000 The tension.

00:28:53.000 You think you're going in for like an interview?

00:28:56.000 I'm like, this is the Roman Coliseum.

00:28:58.000 Yeah, that's what it looks like.

00:28:59.000 And so I'm walking in as like a gladiator.

00:29:02.000 Yeah.

00:29:04.000 Not a single person applauded when I walked in.

00:29:07.000 It's 400 people, right?

00:29:09.000 Now, remember, I'm in a foreign country.

00:29:11.000 I just got off a red-eye flight.

00:29:12.000 I didn't sleep, right?

00:29:13.000 I got two kids at home.

00:29:14.000 Like, so you're a little bit, you know, just— Do you have any of your—like, is Andrew with you?

00:29:17.000 You got any of your people?

00:29:18.000 I have Mikey and Blake, and Blake's amazing.

00:29:20.000 Blake is, like, the smartest person I know, right?

00:29:22.000 At least you have, like, someone.

00:29:23.000 And I was like, guys, we have to—so we prepped the best we could, right?

00:29:26.000 Yeah.

00:29:26.000 So I do this interview with this—it was a ridiculous interview with the head of the Cambridge president.

00:29:30.000 And then she, like, throws me out into the center of the Coliseum, right?

00:29:33.000 And so they start bringing these people up, and, you know, it's very interesting.

00:29:38.000 I thought I did very well keeping my calm and composure, right?

00:29:41.000 Because it's, like, very easy to have an outburst like that.

00:29:45.000 I didn't have a single person clap for me, right?

00:29:48.000 Which is very different than your typical, like, what you do.

00:29:50.000 Yes, or at least it's mixed, right? 0.99

00:29:52.000 Like, some booing, some cheering.

00:29:54.000 So usually when I'm doing an event, I could at least like see somebody nodding along.

00:29:57.000 Like instead it's just like, and so you're, That is hard.

00:30:04.000 People who don't public speak, like, it's really hard when you look out into the audience and it's blank stares.

00:30:09.000 And then they're applauding even the dumbest point that this person makes, right?

00:30:12.000 They're like, yeah!

00:30:13.000 You know?

00:30:13.000 And so, but I was like, so I was very happy with how I kind of kept my calm and composure.

00:30:18.000 Yeah.

00:30:19.000 But understand, so you have these, like, high IQ, low wisdom, you know.

00:30:23.000 Yeah.

00:30:24.000 People at Cambridge.

00:30:25.000 And they have all week to prepare for what they're going to say, right?

00:30:29.000 And I don't know the topic.

00:30:30.000 So they come up and it could be anything, right?

00:30:33.000 It could be abortion. 1.00

00:30:34.000 It could be transgenderism.

00:30:36.000 It could be Israel. 0.72

00:30:37.000 Okay.

00:30:37.000 So they've been preparing their best argument.

00:30:39.000 They're like, okay, I'm going to formulate my best argument for Charlie Kirk and he has no idea.

00:30:44.000 I don't even know the topic.

00:30:45.000 Yes.

00:30:46.000 So I don't even know.

00:30:47.000 Anything.

00:30:47.000 And on campus, I'm used to that.

00:30:49.000 But this is different.

00:30:51.000 And it's fine.

00:30:53.000 I'm so glad I did it because I'll go anywhere and I'll do that.

00:30:55.000 And I hope it sets an example for other people.

00:30:57.000 You shouldn't be afraid.

00:30:58.000 But here I am.

00:30:59.000 I'm proclaiming the gospel.

00:31:00.000 And they're mocking and snickering.

00:31:03.000 And I'm like, God is real.

00:31:05.000 And they're just literally laughing in the room.

00:31:08.000 And again, I'm unmoved by that.

00:31:11.000 It went super viral.

00:31:13.000 And it was what they call a Rorschach test, right?

00:31:15.000 Which is like the left is like, oh, you know, Charlie is whatever.

00:31:19.000 I was like, okay.

00:31:20.000 And then the right was like, you know, really glad you hung in there.

00:31:23.000 But overall, the consensus overwhelmingly was like, Charlie, you did great.

00:31:26.000 Well, there's no one else that could have done better.

00:31:28.000 I don't know a better debater than you.

00:31:31.000 And so I'm glad that you were the – I mean, I guess you weren't the first because I think other people have done it as well.

00:31:35.000 But it wasn't in that hospital.

00:31:36.000 It wasn't the same?

00:31:37.000 No, no.

00:31:38.000 Okay, so this was the first format like that?

00:31:40.000 Shapiro did it.

00:31:40.000 Yes.

00:31:41.000 Shapiro did it at Oxford.

00:31:43.000 The one he did at Oxford was super hostile and we kind of flipped.

00:31:45.000 So I did Oxford, it was very chill, and then, So it was like, for whatever reason, it was like inverted for us.

00:31:52.000 Yeah.

00:31:52.000 But like, it was like a 10 out of 10 husband.

00:31:54.000 And like, they will come and they'll insult your appearances.

00:31:57.000 They'll insult like everything, right?

00:31:58.000 Like everything's on the table.

00:31:59.000 Because they want you to try to have an outburst, right?

00:32:01.000 Wow.

00:32:02.000 And like, they want to try to get you.

00:32:03.000 And so, anyway, I consider it a huge blessing to be able to do it.

00:32:07.000 But now you're prepared for anything.

00:32:08.000 Oh no, now it's like, okay, I'll go debate at Harvard.

00:32:10.000 Like, I don't care.

00:32:11.000 Yeah.

00:32:11.000 Or Dartmouth.

00:32:12.000 Yeah.

00:32:12.000 Because, I mean, it is, it was like, there was an ambush met with like, Just the whole, like, configuration of the room and the acoustics.

00:32:21.000 That room is from, like, 1820.

00:32:23.000 So, like, there's all wood.

00:32:25.000 So it just all, like, when they applaud, it just got so loud.

00:32:27.000 How long was it?

00:32:28.000 An hour and 45 minutes.

00:32:30.000 Pretty long.

00:32:31.000 Yeah, no, that's a long time to be kind of on your feet, you know.

00:32:34.000 And so here's the thing.

00:32:35.000 So because we thought that, like, it would be a little bit nicer, I hosted my whole show right before that, you know?

00:32:42.000 So I did like a whole show in London and I was like, okay.

00:32:44.000 And then as I'm getting closer, I'm like, We are like somewhat – how do you prepare?

00:32:50.000 You don't know what they're going to talk about, right?

00:32:51.000 That's true.

00:32:52.000 And so anyway, with that being said, the one guy came up.

00:32:56.000 He was like, in the Bible, it doesn't say homosexuality is wrong.

00:32:59.000 Can you repeat those five R's again? 0.99

00:33:01.000 Yes.

00:33:01.000 Okay.

00:33:02.000 That was so well said.

00:33:03.000 So even – yes, I remember the first time I talked about this on my podcast was probably 2018.

00:33:07.000 And I don't know.

00:33:08.000 I guess the Holy Spirit just helps me with this kind of alliteration.

00:33:11.000 But – because people always say, well, you don't have to care about what Leviticus says.

00:33:18.000 I don't know what they say about Romans 1 and 1 Corinthians 6 and all of these other verses, but they just kind of say, well, we don't have to abide by those.

00:33:29.000 But if you look at the positive definitions of sexuality and marriage in Scripture, which is what we should look at, when we read the Bible, we don't just say, well, what can we get away with?

00:33:38.000 We read the Bible asking, how can we obey God?

00:33:41.000 Which means you don't just look at, what does he say I shouldn't do?

00:33:45.000 What does he say is good, right, and holy?

00:33:48.000 Rooted in creation.

00:33:49.000 We see that in Genesis 127, that God made us male and female.

00:33:53.000 Reiterated throughout scripture.

00:33:54.000 For example, Exodus 20, 12. Honor your father and mother.

00:33:58.000 The Bible doesn't say parents.

00:34:00.000 The Bible doesn't say spouses.

00:34:02.000 The Bible says husband, wife, mother, father.

00:34:06.000 Reiterated throughout scripture.

00:34:07.000 That's the second one.

00:34:08.000 Then repeated by Jesus himself.

00:34:10.000 This is Matthew 19, 4 through 5. And people say Jesus never talked about sexuality.

00:34:15.000 He never talked about these things.

00:34:17.000 And we could get into like how terrible that is of a hermeneutic, but.

00:34:26.000 I mean, that's as clear as it gets when Jesus is defining marriage and gender.

00:34:30.000 And then representative of Christ in the church.

00:34:33.000 That's the fourth R. That's exactly right.

00:34:35.000 Yes.

00:34:36.000 Ephesians 5. Paul says, this is a mystery, but I'm telling you that marriage here on earth, and I'm paraphrasing, represents Christ in the church.

00:34:44.000 just as the husband is the head of the wife, so is Christ the head of the church.

00:34:48.000 And so that's not true.

00:34:52.000 That's not true of two women who are together because it is the husband who represents Christ. 0.99

00:34:57.000 It is the wife who represents the church.

00:34:59.000 And so we read that the earthly physical marriage of a man and a woman is representative of a spiritual and eternal reality of Christ's marriage to the church.

00:35:10.000 And so in that way, it is reflective of the gospel.

00:35:14.000 The Bible starts with a marriage.

00:35:15.000 It ends with a marriage.

00:35:16.000 And the gender designations are not arbitrary.

00:35:19.000 So that is exactly why when someone compromises on I will give you attribution, but you're going to hear that on a college campus near you.

00:35:30.000 Okay, I'm ready.

00:35:31.000 That's so deep.

00:35:33.000 Thanks.

00:35:34.000 Before I have to let you go to go speak, why are so many young men especially joining the Catholic Church?

00:35:40.000 Yeah, you know, I've seen this a lot.

00:35:42.000 It's happening.

00:35:43.000 It's real.

00:35:43.000 I've seen, I have seen this.

00:35:45.000 I had someone ask me the other day why men are becoming more religious.

00:35:50.000 And there is some, okay, so there is some competing data, I will say, about whether Catholicism is growing or whether they're adding new people at the same rate that they're losing new people.

00:36:00.000 At least anecdotally, I know in right-wing circles, Catholicism has more momentum.

00:36:05.000 Tradition.

00:36:06.000 Would you agree?

00:36:06.000 Tradition.

00:36:07.000 Rigidity.

00:36:09.000 The expectation of this is what I have to do and this is what it looks like.

00:36:13.000 And I'm not trying to, I mean, everyone knows I'm, you know, a Reformed Protestant.

00:36:17.000 I talk a lot about Protestant theology, but I'm not trying to say this in some kind of like dismissive way.

00:36:22.000 Truly, there is something beautiful about that.

00:36:24.000 And I think there is something that they feel grounded in when they can look back at the history of the Catholic Church and say, "This has been done this way for X amount of years." Also just the existence of the magisterium, that this is what the Bible means, this is the catechism, this is how we interpret scripture.

00:36:45.000 There's a lot of debate and discussion and differing interpretations within Protestantism, which I think is a feature.

00:36:55.000 You know, a bad product of the Protestant Reformation. 0.97

00:36:57.000 So I think that's what it is.

00:36:59.000 Yeah, I think that's – I agree with all that.

00:37:02.000 And I can tell you the young men I talk to, they're joining the Catholic Church.

00:37:06.000 They can't quite put it into words, but kind of the theme is that everything around me is changing so rapidly.

00:37:11.000 Yeah.

00:37:12.000 And I want one thing that's not going to change.

00:37:14.000 Yeah.

00:37:14.000 And at least I could tell you, Allie, I am exhausted.

00:37:18.000 If I have to go to a church that looks like a Home Depot.

00:37:21.000 I think there's actually something about a beautiful church that points up that is holy and that, you know.

00:37:26.000 It's excellent.

00:37:27.000 Right?

00:37:27.000 It's not enough just to have a Sam's Club with worship, you know?

00:37:31.000 Not to say that Jesus can't be present there, but I do think that the old, even the old beautiful Protestant churches are something that we can take a page out of that our Lord deserves a holy place to sanctify.

00:37:45.000 Now, of course, Jesus is in all of our hearts.

00:37:47.000 But when I go to church, I want to feel as if I am pursuing the holy, right?

00:37:52.000 And to look at the beautiful.

00:37:55.000 And Catholics, you know, their churches are really beautiful, actually.

00:37:59.000 A lot of them, you know, stained glass windows, you know, beautiful art.

00:38:03.000 So I think that's part of it.

00:38:04.000 I think the aesthetics also in an increasingly ugly world has drawn people in, right?

00:38:09.000 Yeah.

00:38:09.000 I mean, we just like to have this hyper modern ugly world where there's almost nothing pleasing to look at.

00:38:14.000 Yeah.

00:38:15.000 I think that that help explains part of it.

00:38:18.000 Yeah.

00:38:18.000 I think that those are all really good points.

00:38:21.000 You got to go Dash to go speak.

00:38:23.000 Plug your podcast so people can follow it.

00:38:24.000 Yes.

00:38:25.000 It's called Relatable.

00:38:26.000 It's on Blaze TV, but you can listen or watch wherever you listen or watch your podcast.

00:38:30.000 My book, my latest book, Toxic Empathy, How Progressives Exploit Christian Compassion.

00:38:35.000 I really encourage you, especially if you're a woman, but really it's for anyone who finds yourself aspirated.

00:38:45.000 Or when they say that in order to be a good person, I have to use someone's preferred pronouns?

00:38:49.000 Whatever it is, this is the book for you.

00:38:52.000 This book will equip you to have those conversations really effectively.

00:38:55.000 Allie, you're excellent.

00:38:55.000 Thank you for your courage.

00:38:56.000 Thank you, Charlie.

00:38:57.000 So many young women especially follow you.

00:39:00.000 So thank you for being a godly and biblical role model.

00:39:02.000 Well, thank you so much.

00:39:03.000 Thank you.

00:39:04.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:39:05.000 Email us, as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:39:08.000 Thanks so much for listening, and God bless.

The Charlie Kirk Show - June 20, 2025

"Should Women Be Pastors?" and Other Questions On the State of the Church

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