00:00:00.000Hey everybody, another part of the conversation I had in Santa Barbara, California for the Whatever podcast.
00:00:09.000Just so you guys know, this is an unusual forum.
00:00:12.000It is usually, let's say, frequented by people that are in the business of the production of pornography, and this was no exception.
00:00:20.000There were a couple young women there that are currently in the porn industry and some other people that are not, but they do similar type of work.
00:00:28.000So it's a different type of audience, you could say.
00:00:31.000So I just want to give you a heads up before you listen to this episode.
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00:02:51.000If they're super pro-life to the point where it's like, oh, the mother's health is at risk and you still shouldn't abort, then I'm like, whoa, slow down there, buddy.
00:03:37.000You can be pro-choice and pro-life at the same time.
00:03:40.000And that is really the only way that I would be able to be in a relationship because I'm pro-choice, but I can also respect that the person that I love is not.
00:05:01.000And you could do an ultrasound at right around, you could start do ultrasounds at eight weeks and you could see the full full being right around 12 weeks and right around 25, 26 weeks are now the earliest cases we have of babies that are able to survive outside of the womb.
00:05:16.000Does anyone have any other answers on that?
00:05:19.000No, I mean I'm not like educated scientifically enough about the biology of all of it, but I agree.
00:05:27.000I think that life is a very subjective term.
00:05:31.000You know, you could say when does the infant's body in the womb start functioning?
00:05:37.000Or you could say when do they start perceiving their consciousness?
00:05:44.000And for me, it's when they start perceiving their consciousness, but truly I have no idea when that is.
00:05:51.000Do you think it would be important to let me ask you this, if you knew for certain the baby, would you agree it's a baby?
00:05:58.000Is that a good term to use if it's in a womb?
00:06:23.000No, I mean, obviously you wouldn't take like, you know, a fetus that just has like a heart and like their brain isn't fully formed and be like, that's the same as like a one-month-old.
00:06:32.000Like we obviously see differences between development from then and there.
00:06:37.000That's where it becomes a lot more contentious.
00:06:40.000But the point being is that we don't look at a fetus from its beginning stages and be like, yeah, that's the same thing as my like three month year old cousin.
00:06:47.000Well, hold on, that's a nine month old is not the same thing as a one-month-old.
00:06:50.000Okay, so you can go, the progression of development continues.
00:07:12.000But I'm saying like practicality-wise, there are many instances of women who have miscarriages without even ever knowing because it might just present as like a very heavy cycle that month.
00:07:22.000That's fine, but it doesn't make it any less a life, right?
00:07:43.000Now, sometimes it can be a miscarriage because you drank alcohol and you didn't know you were pregnant, or you might have taken a drug that had side effects.
00:11:08.000I'm sorry, if women are the victims here, why should they be jailed?
00:11:11.000Well, I don't believe they should be jailed.
00:11:12.000I think people are going to be able to do that.
00:11:13.000You just said that abortion is murder, but a murderer shouldn't go to jail.
00:11:19.000The doctors, the abortionists, the people that call themselves doctors, the people that put women under general anesthesia and go into women do they ask they are doctors.
00:12:30.000So when you just a type of abortion that you described is literally the like minority of the time, and those are wanted pregnancies because usually those women want those pregnancies.
00:12:39.000They don't know they're pregnant until they're 16.
00:12:41.000They weren't able to carry those children to term because of health risks to their own life or to the infant.
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00:14:28.000I think there are frivolous reasons to procure abortions, but I don't believe that just because there are frivolous reasons to get them, that means it should be outlawed.
00:14:37.000But like you were saying, even though you believe that those women have a hand in committing the murder and infanticide, basically, of their own children, they shouldn't have to do that.
00:14:45.000I don't believe that they have not been given informed consent to be able to do that.
00:14:47.000Do you have that opinion with people who are addicted to drugs?
00:14:50.000Do you think only drug dealers should go to jail, but not people who actually try to buy drugs and consume them?
00:14:57.000Is there a single drug where you would say that somebody who is buying and consuming drugs that they are addicted to should not be going to jail, but only their drug dealer should be going to jail?
00:15:05.000I mean, I think fentanyl and heroin potentially, but it's a completely separate issue because a lot of people know the informed consent of heroin and fentanyl.
00:15:12.000It's not like we have PSAs, we have billboards.
00:15:18.000But they have a chemical dependency now that prevents them from being able to make that.
00:15:21.000How often have we ever had an honest conversation with women in this country saying that having an abortion increases the chances for depression, anxiety, medication dependence?
00:16:15.000This was a completely separate question.
00:16:17.000I'm only saying that I feel like you're trivializing and downplaying how serious conditions like postpartum depression can be when you want to write it off as like a temporary medical issue when it can be years-long battle.
00:16:44.000I think that's situational to each and everybody.
00:16:47.000Molly, do you think that birth control could be called birth control in certain ways?
00:16:50.000Because you're talking about over a million abortions, but there's tens of millions of women that are on birth control, that have IUDs, that take birth control pills.
00:16:57.000So obviously, that's not the only reason why.
00:17:09.000Yeah, but we're not disagreeing with the category.
00:17:10.000I'm talking about the portal and COVID.
00:17:11.000If it's birth control, then why would we allow it to continue if it's not, if you put the rape, incest, life of the mother, which we can debate.
00:17:20.000But no, I'm going to put that aside for a second.
00:17:22.000Then why should we allow a horrific procedure to continue that has such heavy and dire consequences and results in a child not being able to live outside of the womb?
00:17:32.000You're loading it so much by saying a horrific procedure.
00:17:32.000Because that's what we're going to do.
00:17:35.000Most women who procure abortions actually report being happy long term because they made the choice because there's many different reasons why women get abortion.
00:17:42.000Some women aren't in a financial position to have a child at that time and actually decide to have children later.
00:18:17.000Oh, you want the loosey-goosey parts of sex, like the orgasm, but you don't want the responsibility of a child.
00:18:21.000It's like, yeah, some people want to be able to have sex.
00:18:23.000Okay, no, you articulate it perfectly.
00:18:25.000I'm going to be able to have sex how I want, and if I have to go put a dagger through, have someone put a dagger through a child for me, then so be it.
00:19:19.000The argument that I was going to make was, or I was going to ask you the question, do you think another person has a right to your life and your body?
00:20:12.000I don't really think that makes sense because I don't think sex is just for reproduction.
00:20:17.000It's just like asking you, you know, like every time, I'm not trying to bring in your wife, but, you know, every time you have sex with your wife, it's purely for reproduction.
00:20:28.000So, I mean, it's hard to expect everyone who isn't in a marriage to just not have sex just because they don't want to get pregnant or just because they don't want to have that responsibility.
00:20:36.000Wait, did you make, did you even make the argument that sex is purely?
00:20:41.000Angel's making a good point, and I want to give her credit for this.
00:20:43.000What she's saying, and it can be misunderstood that I was saying sex is strictly for reproduction.
00:20:48.000What I was saying is that everything in life has consequences and choices, right?
00:20:52.000And at times, the mainstream predominant narrative is that sex comes with almost no downsides, and we're going to give you either the technology, the procedure, or whatever to try to limit those downsides.
00:21:04.000But the difference is that when my wife and I have sex, if she results to be pregnant, which she did, is that we live with that consequence, which happens to be a positive consequence, right?
00:21:16.000It's very, very radical and very unpopular, but the ideal should be far less people having premarital sex and trying to have sex within marital guidelines, or at the very least, monogamous guidelines, okay?
00:21:28.000So that if there was to be a pregnancy, that that baby could be loved and cared for and brought into this world.
00:21:33.000I understand it's a hard ideal to even grasp and comprehend in a world where everything is very sex positive and sex abundant, but it's an ideal that I defend nonetheless.
00:21:45.000I mean, I don't think there's anything that's in contradiction with being sex positive, but also wanting to help prevent unwanted pregnancies.
00:21:51.000I would not, I would just say to those women and those people having sex that you should be using birth control and family planning methods to make sure that you don't have any unexpected pregnancies that you don't want to have to skip the abortion part altogether.
00:22:02.000I don't think anybody loves their abortion.
00:22:04.000I only said that people just don't regret them.
00:22:06.000Are you guys familiar with what's happening with the chemical abortion craze that's going on right now?
00:22:15.000I'm talking about where they're mailing chemical abortion packets where women are bleeding out and emergency room visits are up nearly 300%.
00:22:58.000Every single abortion has a victim necessarily.
00:23:01.000And many, many times has a woman full of regret that we are now seeing, and I'm not going to make up numbers out of nowhere, but there is a growing community of abortion regret, including people that are speaking out and they're saying, I wish I wouldn't have, and it resulted in either difficulty to have children in the future or mental trauma.
00:23:24.000Or what about the moms like her mother who, I wish I actually had had an abortion because that wasn't the life path that I wanted to go down, but it was one that I chose to make.
00:25:58.000Personally, or I'm agnostic on the question politically, meaning it's legal, so be it.
00:26:03.000But I wouldn't consider it to be a good lifestyle choice, including most specifically hormonal birth control.
00:26:09.000Now, mind you, I'm over my skis on this being a man, but I will yield to the growing community of women on both sides of the political aisle that are ditching their hormonal birth control because they say, I don't like the way it makes me feel.
00:26:21.000Or they want an IUD, which is a non-hormancy.
00:26:23.000But there is a growing body of literature by Dr. Daniel Amon and many other people that show that the pill increases anxiety and depression and suicidal.
00:26:35.000So again, I am not going to act like an expert on that, but that's a legit community online of people that are ditching hormonal birth control.
00:26:42.000I think the way that you're phrasing things of like, oh no, like murdering the babies is quite interesting because I don't think in like any other example where we have a person and their life is somehow connected to someone else, they decide like, hey, I don't want to do this anymore.
00:26:54.000Like I don't want to give my kidney to this person.
00:26:56.000I don't want to continue this blood transfusion.
00:26:58.000I don't want to continue this process.
00:27:00.000We wouldn't go and point at them and be like, you're a murderer.
00:27:03.000So I just think that there is a distinction to be made here when you're saying like, oh no, they're murdering babies by just deciding that like, hey, actually, I don't want this fetus to continue using my lungs, my blood, my organs to continue developing.
00:27:16.000Like, would you call somebody who doesn't want to have like give a blood transfusion or give a kidney or something like that?
00:27:22.000That's actually a good faith question.
00:27:24.000So if I had the specific type of blood type, okay, and in a hypothetical desert island, there happened to be a medical facility and somebody right there needed a blood transfusion and I said no, I would be complicit in their death.
00:27:47.000Okay, so if the government decided, hey, you know what?
00:27:50.000Like, let's say Joe Biden is put in the hospital and you're the only person for whatever reason in the world that can give him a kidney and you have to basically give him like constant transfusions of blood for like the next year, would be a murder if you decide not to do that.
00:28:04.000Well, first I would do it, even though I can't stand Joe Biden.
00:28:09.000And if it was only for nine months, yeah, I'd do it.
00:28:11.000And if you didn't do it, do you think you should be punished with jail time or whatever?
00:28:14.000It depends the type of informed consent that goes alongside of it, which goes back to why I believe women are lied to and women are victims in the abortion process.
00:28:21.000And yes, there are exceptions where women really know what's happening.
00:28:36.000They feel as if the world is against them.
00:28:39.000The abortionists, let me be very clear, the people that call themselves medical doctors that know better, that actually do the very damaging graphic removal of the baby, those are the people that I think should be focused when it comes to law.
00:28:51.000To your point, though, if for nine months I would have to live a tougher life for another human being to live, I would do that.
00:29:02.000Would, like what Erin was saying earlier, so do you think the government should be able to punish you for not doing that?
00:29:08.000Should you be able to go to jail or should the government be able to send you to jail because you didn't want to give blood transfusions to Joe Biden for nine months?
00:29:15.000Should the government have that ability?
00:29:16.000It depends if I knew the totality, if there really were no other options.
00:29:19.000If I said to if all of a sudden in this theoretical strand of desert island, in this abstract thing, and I had all the informed consent and Joe Biden was dying and he said, help me out, bro.
00:29:44.000I personally wouldn't be able to live with myself.
00:29:45.000If I have something that I don't need, maybe you guys agree or disagree.
00:29:49.000If I have something that won't, and this is my own personal lot, you guys could disagree.
00:29:53.000But if I have something that will make my life more difficult for nine months, to use the analogy, right?
00:29:59.000But it meant another life could continue, I would sign up in a second.
00:30:03.000Do you think there has ever been a woman who has procured an abortion that had totally informed consent and still went through with the decision?
00:30:40.000If I was in your chair, I'd be doing the exact same thing.
00:30:42.000But you deny that there's any women that have informed consent to this decision.
00:30:46.000You believe that the vast majority of people that get abortions are deluded into getting them.
00:30:51.000I said, of course, there are, nor should the law or the policy be focused towards women.
00:30:56.000And the vast majority, 90, 95%, we know this from studies by pro-life groups, and we know this by studies, not even just by pro-life groups, by Planned Parenthood.
00:31:33.000Where we here right now, if one of you want to get an abortion down the street, they will not give you an ultrasound before.
00:31:38.000And just so you know what an ultrasound is, it's a three-dimensional interactive image of the baby fetus, whatever you want to call it, in the womb before termination.
00:32:05.000I don't, because I, from 12 years old, from the first sexual education young girls have in this country, is they look at abortion as normal, as fine, and so they've been indoctrinated.
00:32:14.000That's why I continue to believe that they are victims of a bigger scheme.
00:32:18.000They're victims of a bigger scheme, and they should not be punished or held accountable.
00:32:21.000Instead, you go after the industry itself that knows better.
00:32:24.000There is no comprehensive sex ed in this country.
00:32:26.000I grew up in Texas, and the sex education that I was given to the extent that I was was abstinence only.
00:32:31.000So, them saying, don't have sex, basically.
00:32:34.000And another thing, I take it to something else that you said earlier, which is that, oh, well, they've reduced abortions because they've made it illegal.
00:32:41.000But you know that just because something is illegal doesn't mean it doesn't happen anymore.
00:32:44.000But murder is illegal, it never happens.
00:32:49.000Were you going off of birth rates, or were you going off the fact that there are zero reported abortions because doctors refuse to perform them because they don't want to go to jail?
00:32:55.000I guarantee you there are back alley abortions happening.
00:32:58.000Far less than used to happen when the clinics were open.
00:33:00.000Should those women have to get back alley abortions?
00:33:02.000Well, they shouldn't get abortions at all.
00:33:39.000Liberty is a concept that has been hotly debated by many political theorists, scientists, philosophers.
00:33:47.000But liberty is one having the autonomy and self-determination to be able to make as many free and fair choices in their life and society as possible.
00:34:27.000Do you think that it's consistent in Charlie Kirk's...
00:34:32.000Do you think it's consistent in Charlie's philosophy to say that a woman procuring an abortion, which is akin to murder, should not have to go to jail even though she's effectively murdering her own child or future child?
00:34:43.000Well, truthfully, I'm not really well-versed on this topic.
00:34:47.000From what you've heard so far, do you think that if somebody conflates abortion with murder, the person who gets it.
00:34:59.000Just do you think it's consistent in someone's philosophy to say simultaneously that abortion is murder, but that the person who actually asks for that murder effectively should not have to go to jail?
00:35:15.000If somebody conceives of abortion as murder, if somebody conceives of abortion as murder, do you think that if they engage in getting an abortion, aka murder, they should be excluded from going to jail because they're just a victim?
00:35:32.000An important wrinkle that you're missing, which is that the woman, in my view, in any objective analysis, does not get the full picture of what's being done to her, the full picture of the being inside of her.
00:35:43.000So that's a very important element you're missing here, right?
00:35:46.000But I was saying that even if in the cases that they do and they choose to get an abortion, should they go to jail?
00:35:52.000And you wouldn't engage with the hypothetical.
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00:37:21.000I do want to move on here a little bit because Charlie has to leave in about 15, 20 minutes.
00:37:27.000So last thing on the abortion thing, just really quick, and I think we might have touched on this before.
00:37:32.000I guess just for Pixie and you, just since you guys seem the most vocal on this topic, do you think that a woman not being financially ready is a valid reason to get an abortion?
00:38:52.000I think that is the imperfect solution, but it's the closest thing that you could get because you would never have the say over whether or not somebody carries a pregnancy to term somebody else.
00:39:04.000I guess I just like I'm in similar alignment.
00:39:06.000I think, again, I think there's a legal question of abortion and there's like a moral question as well, as well as when it comes to like giving birth.
00:39:14.000And that's why I think like even morally, even though I might not personally have an abortion or whatever, I just don't think the government has a right to tell you what's wrong with your mother.
00:39:23.000If you can, try to actually answer the question.
00:39:27.000Because in all 50 states in the U.S., Whether there's abortion rights or not in that state, uh, in all 50 states, if the woman chooses to proceed with the pregnancy and has the child, uh, you know, there's certainly going to be some either financial or parental responsibilities that men cannot so easily do away with.
00:39:49.000Um, do you think that it's what do you tell a man, though, who's who's like, I don't want to have to pay child support, I don't want to have to be parentally responsible for the child.
00:40:00.000What do you say to men in that situation?
00:40:04.000That doesn't necessarily men don't have a legal right to do that in any state, but it's really interesting how people who are in favor of abortion become bronze age uh pro-lifers when it comes to uh, the the male side of this.
00:40:20.000I've said that legally oh, I don't think the government should have a say on what, what you do with your bodily autonomy, and I think legally um, a man should have the.
00:40:28.000The government shouldn't, like necessarily force you um, to claim childhood or like parenthood over a child that you don't claim to have.
00:40:37.000I'm saying that there's like a legal consistency here that I believe in.
00:40:40.000Okay, so you're in favor of a legal paternal surrender?
00:40:43.000Yeah perhaps, perhaps in states where abortion is legal yeah yeah, and men are already surrendering their children regardless, even even without that not happening.
00:40:51.000I don't know men, men can walk out on their men can already walk out on their children and can walk out on their children.
00:43:36.000It's basically queueing on for liberal feminists.
00:43:39.000It is like he thinks that patriarchy is a natural state of the world and should be brought back to that.
00:43:45.000So how is that queue on if it's like people within your own group believe that acknowledging that?
00:43:50.000I disagree with Chase about a lot of things.
00:43:52.000And I mean, he's been a recurring guest on the show, but his views are not necessarily representative of whatever.
00:44:04.000But do you think that the trad cons or people, I don't think all tradcons believe in this, but a lot of them who claim like patriarchy should be the state of the world?
00:44:12.000Yeah, like the patriarchal family structure.
00:44:15.000I think there's certainly some merit to it, but do I do everybody?
00:44:18.000And also, I think people have different definitions of what that is.
00:44:23.000I mean, I certainly don't think that there's we live in a patriarchy currently.
00:44:42.000For example, the United Kingdom has, for the past 200 years, for most of those 200 years, has been, maybe it's even more, has been under the rule of a queen.
00:44:53.000Well, it's monarchy, but I mean, well, I'm not super well.
00:44:57.000Yeah, I'm not super well educated on the it's more a figurehead, but still, yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:45:02.000Uh, I wanted Charlie's thoughts on this, um, and guys, yeah, we're gonna have a little bit of reverb issues, uh, but uh, just bear through it, and then I'll fix it once uh next time we get to it.
00:45:16.000Um, Sophia, I was curious, um, Sophia, you do OnlyFans.
00:45:20.000Um, I noticed in some of your photos, Nick, if you can pull them up.
00:45:23.000Oh, gosh, oh, gosh, zoom out just a tad, Nick.
00:47:16.000So, I mean, I don't really think much of it, and maybe I'm at fault for that.
00:47:23.000But I wear the cross because I do believe in God, and I love, you know.
00:47:29.000I guess just how do you reconcile, you know, wearing the cross, sort of still being a Catholic, I guess, with producing pornographic content.
00:49:24.000Look, for whatever it's worth, if you're engaged in the creation of that content, I think God has a better plan for you.
00:49:31.000I know that might sound preachy and not what you want to hear, but just maybe you'll have an encounter with God, and Jesus loves all of you, and he can transform your life.
00:49:40.000I've had a lot of problems in my life, a lot of problems, and Jesus solves everything.
00:49:45.000And every day is a new day, and it's a hopeful, beautiful life ahead of you.
00:49:49.000And I know that might not be something you even believe, and you might think that all Christians hate you and your way of life and all those sorts of things.