The Charlie Kirk Show - Solving for Epstein: What the Trump Admin Should Do Next

00:00:00.000 Hey everybody, Charlie Kirk here live from the Bitcoin.com studio.

00:00:04.000 We dive deep into the news of the day.

00:00:06.000 I first talk about how the media has just been lying about us on this program and then we go rather long with Mike Benz on Epstein and we finally get to a summary of where Mike Benz thinks Epstein plays in this entire conversation.

00:00:20.000 Email us as always freedom at charliekirk.com.

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00:00:43.000 Buckle up, everybody.

00:00:44.000 Here we go.

00:00:45.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:47.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

00:00:49.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

00:00:52.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:00:56.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:00:57.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:00:58.000 His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.

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00:01:15.000 That's why we are here.

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00:01:43.000 You know, we had a great show yesterday.

00:01:45.000 By all objector measurements, people loved the show.

00:01:48.000 We were covering all sorts of different issues.

00:01:50.000 And remember the backdrop.

00:01:51.000 Over the weekend, we had an event that was heard around the world and definitely heard throughout Washington, D.C. We had Megan Kelly, we had Donald Trump Jr., we had the great Steve Bannon, we had Christy Noam, we had Tucker Carlson, we had Pete Hegseth.

00:02:05.000 And Epstein was brought up a lot over this last weekend.

00:02:10.000 And I was doing interviews on Epstein.

00:02:11.000 I probably talked about Epstein in, let's just say, 55 different environments.

00:02:16.000 One-off podcast interviews, from stage, speeches, question and answer, interviews with reporters.

00:02:24.000 It was a lot.

00:02:25.000 So on Monday morning, I had a lot of other topics I wanted to cover.

00:02:29.000 I wanted to cover Russia-Ukraine.

00:02:31.000 I wanted to cover NATO.

00:02:33.000 I wanted to cover the potential closure of the Department of Education, the layoffs at the State Department, wanted to cover some of the economic noobs, wanted to cover tariffs.

00:02:42.000 There was a lot to cover yesterday, and we covered it all.

00:02:45.000 Well, we covered most of it.

00:02:46.000 We had phenomenal guests.

00:02:47.000 We also did a recap of the Student Action Summit.

00:02:51.000 So yesterday, I basically, I'm paraphrasing, I'm going to get down to the essence of it.

00:02:55.000 I said, look, guys, back and forth, possession was grassroots this weekend.

00:03:02.000 On Monday, July 14th, yesterday, it's going to be possession administration.

00:03:09.000 We covered it a lot this last weekend.

00:03:11.000 And apparently, the media, who has interestingly not covered the Epstein story at all, the media that has been silent on the Epstein story, they found it so objectionable that even though they won't cover the Epstein story for one two-hour interval after talking about it for 40 hours this last weekend, they find this to be the number one news story.

00:03:35.000 These are all the articles about me this yesterday.

00:03:37.000 So I'm, yesterday I said, what the heck is going on?

00:03:40.000 So I'm going to read you exactly what I said.

00:03:43.000 This is a total obsessive hoax.

00:03:45.000 And this shows you exactly the power of this program, the power of this show, and also the contradiction of the media.

00:03:54.000 Look at all those articles.

00:03:55.000 And even some people are emailing me, Charlie, why are you not talking about Epstein?

00:03:59.000 Why are you saying to move on?

00:04:00.000 I never, ever, ever said move on, ever.

00:04:02.000 I didn't whisper it.

00:04:03.000 I didn't think it.

00:04:04.000 I didn't say it.

00:04:06.000 I am going to now read you what was said yesterday.

00:04:09.000 MSNBC did an entire seven-minute segment on me this morning.

00:04:13.000 And I'm looking at this thing.

00:04:14.000 I said, that's not what I said.

00:04:16.000 I did a special YouTube video about Epstein yesterday about what Laura Trump said on Benny Johnson's program.

00:04:24.000 All we said was that we talked about it a lot over the weekend, and we're going to focus on other stories.

00:04:32.000 And we talked about it a lot at the Sudan Action Summit, and your voices were heard.

00:04:36.000 Our voices were heard.

00:04:37.000 So this is what I said yesterday.

00:04:40.000 Plenty was said this last weekend at our event about Epstein.

00:04:43.000 Honestly, I'm done about talking about Epstein for the time being.

00:04:47.000 Nobody, not a single news outlet said for the time being.

00:04:51.000 They did not include that second part of the sentence.

00:04:54.000 I'm going to trust my friends of the administration.

00:04:56.000 True.

00:04:57.000 I'm going to trust Cash Patel, Dan Bongino, J.D. Vance.

00:05:01.000 It's their ball.

00:05:02.000 It's their possession.

00:05:03.000 I'm going to trust my friends of the government to do what needs to be done.

00:05:06.000 I've said plenty this weekend and the ball is in their hands.

00:05:09.000 So if you guys want to see my commentary on it, that's fine.

00:05:13.000 We have escalatory action being taken in Ukraine and Russia.

00:05:17.000 We have tons of announcements happening when it comes to NATO.

00:05:19.000 But let me say this again.

00:05:21.000 You know my opinion about Epstein, the messaging fumble.

00:05:24.000 I would love to see this is this, again, no one covered the second part of the statement.

00:05:27.000 No one covered it.

00:05:29.000 This thing has like 10 million views on social media. 0.99

00:05:33.000 And unfortunately, too many people on our side fell for this garbage. 0.98

00:05:36.000 And I get it heightened. 0.99

00:05:37.000 By the way, part of this is I'm going to have some compassion.

00:05:40.000 This is a very hot moment.

00:05:42.000 Very hot.

00:05:44.000 And let me be clear.

00:05:45.000 I'm not trusting the government.

00:05:47.000 I'm trusting individuals that you too also trust.

00:05:50.000 You guys are all fans of Dan Bongino and Cash Patel.

00:05:54.000 We are trusting that they heard you, they heard me, and they are working to fix this.

00:06:00.000 Let me finish this.

00:06:01.000 But let me say this again.

00:06:03.000 I would love to see the GOJ move to unseal the grand jury testimony.

00:06:06.000 We're going to talk about that with a guest later this show.

00:06:09.000 I think this would be a big win, and I would love to see that.

00:06:12.000 I'm going to trust my friends, Cash Patel, Dan Bongino, my friend Pam Bondi, all these guys.

00:06:16.000 I'm going to trust them to solve it.

00:06:18.000 Ball is in their court.

00:06:19.000 I think there was, let's say, a lot of speeches that were directed towards this topic.

00:06:24.000 That's it.

00:06:26.000 And by the way, today we're going to cover it for nearly a full hour.

00:06:30.000 But the media went out of its way.

00:06:32.000 Let's just put 323 up there on screen again.

00:06:36.000 All of these articles, so they won't cover the essence or the story of the Epstein story, but they'll cover the idea that somehow Charlie Kirk is moving on.

00:06:47.000 Never was that ever said, nor is that the truth.

00:06:49.000 And guys, they heard us.

00:06:51.000 Trust me, Student Action Summit was near complete messaging saturation.

00:06:57.000 And so looking back, should I have said those five words in the sequence I said?

00:07:01.000 Here's what I should have said.

00:07:03.000 And what I was saying, and guess what?

00:07:05.000 You say thousands of words on a talk radio program.

00:07:08.000 Not all of them is as precise as you should have said.

00:07:10.000 So this is what I was saying.

00:07:12.000 Ball is in your court, guys.

00:07:14.000 You are my friends.

00:07:16.000 We got your attention overwhelmingly.

00:07:18.000 Fix it.

00:07:20.000 That is what I was saying.

00:07:23.000 And this was a mockingbird media hit from our guests, from a lot of people chose to bring it up all over the weekend.

00:07:32.000 And that's fine.

00:07:33.000 And to be clear, we think they can fix it.

00:07:37.000 So what I want to make an addendum to what was said yesterday is we're going to keep on talking about it when I said for the time being, I was talking yesterday.

00:07:48.000 I was telling the audience, guys, I got a whole deck of stories I got to cover here.

00:07:53.000 You see, they want to cover MAGA in disarray.

00:07:56.000 And there is so much going on right now.

00:07:58.000 So excuse me while I have an obligation to you in this program to talk about a rising kinetic conflict between Russia and Ukraine, to talk about ICE agents being fired upon, to be talking about the major issues with Momdani.

00:08:12.000 We have a Minneapolis Momdani rising up. 0.91

00:08:15.000 So excuse me while I'm going to use part of my program to talk about the other issues and say, hey, possession was in the grassroots this weekend.

00:08:24.000 And now the possession arrow is in the hands of some of who we all call these people friends.

00:08:31.000 The ball's in Cash's court.

00:08:32.000 The ball's in Dan's court.

00:08:34.000 The ball is in Pam's court.

00:08:36.000 And I have over the years known to trust these people to be able to fix it.

00:08:41.000 You see, but what's so disappointing, not disappointing, to an extent I get it, is that the MAGA base is so fired up about this.

00:08:51.000 And that's why I didn't take a lot of this seriously.

00:08:54.000 Is that, you know, people were incoming, Charlie, why are you moving on?

00:08:57.000 Why are you this?

00:08:58.000 No one's saying that.

00:09:00.000 No one is saying that.

00:09:02.000 But people are so fired up that if there's even a semblance that this is not going to be prioritized, people get upset.

00:09:10.000 And of course, I don't trust the deep state.

00:09:12.000 I trust people that I've known for years.

00:09:15.000 And what do I trust them to do?

00:09:17.000 I trust them that they hurt us because I know that they heard us.

00:09:21.000 I know that the message of the Student Action Summit was heard around the world very clearly.

00:09:27.000 And if there's one thing I've learned from you guys in the grassroots in this audience, you are not letting this story go.

00:09:34.000 I know that.

00:09:36.000 And never once did I tell you guys to stop talking about it.

00:09:39.000 This is what's so maddening about the media coverage.

00:09:41.000 They're so dishonest.

00:09:42.000 MSNBC, Charlie Kirk tells audience to stop talking about it.

00:09:46.000 When did I ever tell you guys to stop focusing on it?

00:09:50.000 When did I ever tell you to keep the pressure off?

00:09:54.000 Never.

00:09:55.000 So I hope this is a learning lesson for a lot of people that might have gotten a little fired up about this.

00:10:00.000 The media lies to you, and you should look at exactly what people are saying.

00:10:05.000 And also, guys, look at what was done in a couple days prior.

00:10:08.000 If I would have said that and there was no student action summit prior, okay, I think like a medium level of intensity would have been justified.

00:10:16.000 But after hosting the radio program for two days and literally over 20 hours of talking, I did 20 hours of talking, half of which went on Epstein this last weekend.

00:10:28.000 So excuse me when I say, hey, I want to talk about rising home prices.

00:10:31.000 And we're going to get to this story continually throughout the week.

00:10:34.000 Hence, for the time being.

00:10:36.000 And all of a sudden, people, after all that we've been through and all the trust that we've earned, people think I'm just dropping the story.

00:10:43.000 It makes no sense. 0.96

00:10:45.000 And for those of you that saw through that crap, thank you. 0.97

00:10:49.000 We appreciate it. 0.98

00:10:50.000 But we're not going anywhere.

00:10:51.000 And we're definitely not losing focus on this story.

00:10:53.000 The other part of it is like, oh, well, you know, Donald Trump called Charlie Kirk.

00:10:57.000 Yes, he called to say, how's the event going?

00:11:00.000 What's the vibe?

00:11:01.000 How are people doing?

00:11:02.000 This crowd is so big.

00:11:05.000 It's not breaking news that President Trump calls us.

00:11:08.000 All right.

00:11:09.000 For the record, if you are transcribing, we're not moving on.

00:11:14.000 Did I say moving on?

00:11:15.000 It's like we're moving on to another topic.

00:11:19.000 We're not moving on from Epstein.

00:11:22.000 And I think this is a very important thing.

00:11:24.000 How about this?

00:11:25.000 Progressing.

00:11:26.000 Next topic.

00:11:28.000 And I get it.

00:11:29.000 I do.

00:11:30.000 I get it.

00:11:32.000 Because people are really fired up about this.

00:11:35.000 And we here on this program and many of us kind of in the influencer podcast space, you guys are the closest touch point you guys have to the administration.

00:11:48.000 And so we become kind of a, let's just say, a vector.

00:11:54.000 And I take that so seriously, believe me.

00:11:57.000 So when people were emailing me, firing up, fired up, it didn't bother me that much.

00:12:03.000 It bothered me when people said I was, you know, moving on or that I wasn't going to talk about the story.

00:12:07.000 That was annoying.

00:12:08.000 I was like, guys, come on, look at what I actually said.

00:12:11.000 Someone says, Lynn says, so outrageous.

00:12:13.000 I listened to you yesterday and all weekend.

00:12:15.000 It's just sick that the media spinners twisted what you said.

00:12:18.000 No one who listened all to all the summit and the Monday show could have believed that you were saying that anyone told you that we should shut up about this.

00:12:24.000 Thanks for reiterating today.

00:12:26.000 I'm sorry that these sick types are so bent on dividing and conquering. 1.00

00:12:29.000 God is on our side.

00:12:29.000 God bless you, Charlie, your family, and your staff.

00:12:32.000 Lynn, you're a great patriot.

00:12:33.000 Thank you.

00:12:33.000 It's a great, great email.

00:12:36.000 And I do want to say, though, that it is an honor and a responsibility.

00:12:39.000 And because a lot of people are fired up about this, it's not breaking news.

00:12:44.000 I've said that a while. 0.78

00:12:45.000 People are really animated about this because it involves children getting raped. 0.96

00:12:51.000 It involves a sex trafficking ring. 0.79

00:12:53.000 It involves some of the wealthiest, most powerful people out there.

00:12:56.000 It very well might involve our intel community, which we're going to talk about Mike Bence with Mike Benz.

00:13:00.000 And so the base is really, really animated about this.

00:13:05.000 And you guys can't email Donald Trump directly, but you can email me directly.

00:13:10.000 And so I see it and I get it.

00:13:12.000 So we kind of become a gathering point for the excitement and the positivity, but also the angst and the anger.

00:13:22.000 And so over the last 24 hours, we've kind of just been a just a little bit of a dartboard for a lot of people that wanted to blow off some steam.

00:13:32.000 And by the way, I have no problem with people blowing off steam.

00:13:38.000 Blowing off steam is a big, it is an important part of life.

00:13:43.000 Everyone blows off steam differently.

00:13:45.000 Sometimes you just write a letter and you don't send it.

00:13:47.000 You go for a walk.

00:13:47.000 It could be very therapeutic.

00:13:50.000 But now it's about fixing it.

00:13:53.000 And there was some breaking news yesterday.

00:13:54.000 And why else did I say that?

00:13:58.000 Maybe because I've been talking and I think that things are going to get fixed.

00:14:04.000 Let's play the Laura Trump Benny clip. 0.99

00:14:07.000 Put all that in context.

00:14:08.000 Let's play Laura Trump on the Benny show.

00:14:10.000 There needs to be more transparency on this.

00:14:13.000 And I think that that will happen.

00:14:15.000 I mean, look, I don't know what truly exists there, but I know that this is something that's important to the president as well.

00:14:22.000 He does want transparency on all these fronts, but everything we're talking about, because it's frustrated him as well.

00:14:28.000 He's going to want to set things right as well.

00:14:30.000 So I believe that there will probably be more coming on this.

00:14:33.000 And I believe anything that they are able to release that doesn't damage any witnesses or anyone underage or anything like that, I believe they'll probably try to get out sooner rather than later because they hear it and they understand it.

00:14:47.000 So hopefully we see that happen sooner than later.

00:14:49.000 And that, I guess that would be my advice.

00:14:51.000 But to everybody out there who's all worked up about it, there's no great plot to keep this information away that I'm aware of.

00:14:58.000 I do just believe that maybe it's been slow rolled for reasons that hopefully we understand down the line.

00:15:06.000 Laura Trump says that President Trump hears you and that she thinks that information will be released soon.

00:15:12.000 The grassroots pressure on this is enormous and they are hearing your voice.

00:15:16.000 Trust me, all throughout the digital world.

00:15:19.000 It is enormous.

00:15:21.000 And I would love to start to see some material progress on this.

00:15:24.000 And again, I know that people knock me for saying this, but when you have friends, don't you give your friends some opportunity to be able to get it right, to fix it, especially once that memo is delivered.

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00:16:45.000 Joining us now is a great friend and a great American, Sean Parnell, Assistant to SECDEF for Public Affairs and Sean Parnell, Chief Pentagon Spokesman.

00:16:55.000 Sean, you're a great American.

00:16:57.000 Congratulations on all you're doing.

00:16:59.000 Sean, I'm so excited to have you on the program because our audience is very confused and they want to try to get clarity on what's happening with the recent news with Russia and Ukraine.

00:17:10.000 And so I just want to give you an uninterrupted opportunity to make the case and separate fact from fiction.

00:17:16.000 Sean Prunnell, Assistant to SecDeaf for Public Affairs.

00:17:19.000 Yeah, well, first of all, thanks for having me, Charlie.

00:17:21.000 It's great to be back on the show after a little hiatus.

00:17:25.000 You know, look, the Russia-Ukraine conflict has been a central focus for President Trump since he was on the campaign trail.

00:17:33.000 If you remember back to the very first interview where he's had a town hall with Caitlin Collins and she asked him the ambush question of like, do you want Putin to win this war?

00:17:42.000 President Trump responded with something very simple, yet also very profound.

00:17:46.000 And he said, I want people to stop dying.

00:17:50.000 What we've seen over the last year, hundreds of thousands of people dead in this conflict.

00:17:55.000 And a central focus of President Trump's second administration is bringing this war to a peaceful resolution.

00:18:03.000 You heard President Trump from the Oval Office yesterday.

00:18:05.000 Clearly, he's frustrated with Vladimir Putin stringing along negotiations.

00:18:09.000 He doesn't seem like he's being serious.

00:18:12.000 And so what we've done at the Department of Defense and at the President's direction and the SECDEF's direction is provide a framework for munitions that we can send to Ukraine to help them defend themselves while the president pursues peace between Russia and Ukraine.

00:18:26.000 And that's all we've done.

00:18:27.000 And so we're going to continue to do that and give the president robust options as he pursues the peace.

00:18:33.000 So the skepticism from the audience, I would say, on the Russia-Ukraine situation is that they do not want to see America embroiled into another quagmire.

00:18:44.000 I actually don't share that concern.

00:18:46.000 I trust the president.

00:18:47.000 I trust you guys.

00:18:48.000 I think he demonstrated with Iran that he has incredible wisdom and prudence to be able to navigate this. 0.92

00:18:55.000 So I don't share that concern.

00:18:57.000 I do potentially see, you know, in war, you have to enter things with humility because things can get out of control.

00:19:03.000 And all of a sudden, you know, NATO, Article 5 could, I guess, get triggered.

00:19:08.000 Also, the audience does not like the idea of giving away money.

00:19:12.000 So is this a purchase agreement?

00:19:15.000 Can you explain that this is a purchase, not a giveaway?

00:19:19.000 Yeah, it's such a great point.

00:19:21.000 So, yeah, I mean, basically, these are weapons made in America, purchased by NATO.

00:19:27.000 So that's just what this framework provides for.

00:19:31.000 And to your point about the base in the audience, I completely understand the skepticism and the fear as someone who fought in Afghanistan for 16 straight months and to watch Afghanistan surrendered in 2021 was horrific.

00:19:45.000 It hurts my soul just to think about it.

00:19:47.000 And you look at American foreign policy in the 20th and 21st century, whether it's toppling autocrats from Egypt to Libya to Syria to Iraq and Afghanistan, none of that has paid off well for America.

00:20:01.000 And especially when you look at wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, you ask yourself, what do we have to show for those wars after being embroiled for over a decade in Afghanistan, almost 20 years?

00:20:10.000 We have thousands of Americans dead, tens of thousands of Americans suffering from the invisible wounds of war, and hundreds of thousands of families who are affected by those conflict.

00:20:20.000 And again, what do we have to show for it?

00:20:22.000 So the skepticism and the fear from the audience is certainly warranted, but I think you have to think back to what President Trump has said and done in his first term.

00:20:30.000 He was a president of peace with the Abraham Accords in his first term, and he's pursuing a path of peace here in a second.

00:20:37.000 Look at the Houthi operation in the Red Sea.

00:20:40.000 You had a clearly defined mission in an end state.

00:20:43.000 Look at the Iran operation with Operation Midnight Hammer. 0.64

00:20:46.000 You had a clearly defined mission in an end state.

00:20:49.000 So for President Trump, peace is his focus, but in order to pursue peace and to give yourself the strongest hand available at the negotiating table, you have to be strong.

00:20:59.000 And that is exactly what President Trump is signaling in this Russia-Ukraine fight so that he can set the conditions for peace moving forward.

00:21:06.000 And by the way, I fully trust the president.

00:21:08.000 He has never once violated the trust of this country or the American people.

00:21:13.000 That's why people love this president.

00:21:15.000 When he says something on the campaign trail, he makes good on the promise when he's in office.

00:21:20.000 And by the way, that's something that has been very different from Republicans and Democrat administrations in the past.

00:21:24.000 When the president says something, he actually does it and keeps his promise.

00:21:29.000 That is correct, and that is true.

00:21:31.000 So, Sean, NATO is purchasing the money.

00:21:33.000 And is it fair to say that this is going to be a Europe, European-led purchase?

00:21:38.000 Because obviously, we give a lot of money to NATO.

00:21:40.000 I know that Europe is giving more and more money to NATO.

00:21:43.000 So, is it NATO buying the weapons?

00:21:45.000 Will it be mainly Germany?

00:21:47.000 So, kind of walk us through just a little bit.

00:21:49.000 There might be classified stuff here, but I bet most of this is public.

00:21:52.000 Kind of the scope of the deal.

00:21:55.000 Well, so first of all, we should give credit where credit's due to the Secretary of Defense, who has made it a focus of his tenure as SECDEF to ask the Europeans to do more.

00:22:08.000 Ask the Europeans to step up and spend more on defense between 3.5 and now 5%.

00:22:14.000 I would also add that four months ago, people were saying that it was not possible.

00:22:20.000 People were throwing shade at the SECDEF and saying that he couldn't get it done, but he did in conjunction with the president.

00:22:25.000 So we have our European allies right now committed to spend more on their defense.

00:22:29.000 And part of that deal is buying American weapons from America, manufactured in America, as part of this framework to help support Ukraine while it pursues peace.

00:22:39.000 And as I understand it, like this deal is very much, it's very much in the early stages, right?

00:22:46.000 But you have different NATO countries wholeheartedly on board with committing, with giving their resources, financial resources through UCOM to NATO, which will then in turn be weapons to Ukraine and monies back to the U.S. Treasury.

00:23:01.000 So again, this is a good deal for the country.

00:23:04.000 It's in keeping with the SECDEF's national defense strategy of asking for our allies to do more while we can shift our focus to the Indo-Pacific where we think it belongs.

00:23:14.000 I love that because it's got to be all eyes on the rise of the Chinese Communist Party about their potential military incursion with Taiwan.

00:23:24.000 Yeah, and Charlie, you're right.

00:23:25.000 It's the most pragmatic thing in the world.

00:23:29.000 America first does not mean America alone.

00:23:32.000 And if the threats that we face in this world evolve and they evolve quickly, and the threats, we think, you know, a near-peer adversary in China represents what is a very real threat to America and its interests. 0.70

00:23:44.000 China has said from the very, they've made it part of their strategic calculation to be the world's lone superpower.

00:23:51.000 And we want to do everything that we can to stop that and keep America the number one lone superpower in the world.

00:23:58.000 Because America, by and large, is a force for good.

00:24:00.000 In order to do that, we have to ask our allies to do more, ask our allies to be good friends and good partners while we shift our focus to the Indo-Pacific, which is, again, where we think it belongs.

00:24:13.000 Okay, so Sean, now I want to talk about the One Big Beautiful Bill.

00:24:16.000 I want to give you an opportunity to make the case for the increase in defense spending.

00:24:20.000 Obviously, we're behind the president.

00:24:21.000 One Big Beautiful Bill was awesome.

00:24:23.000 But one thing, just a little whispers and murmurs, especially amongst some of the younger demo, is they say, do we really need to now go to a trillion dollars on the defense budget?

00:24:32.000 Can you talk about where this money will be spent, where it is going, and how you believe this is necessary to fortify national security?

00:24:41.000 Well, I mean, look, the things that we're doing in the Department of Defense right now, and I would say in the first six months of the SECDEF's tenure here at the Pentagon, he's done more than most secretaries have done in the last four years.

00:24:54.000 The changes that he is making here in the Pentagon will be generational.

00:24:58.000 I mean, he's making the Pentagon, I think, our country and the world a better place by some of these changes and removing red tape.

00:25:04.000 So when you look at our overall budget, we need to have a budget that supports that unbelievable change, right?

00:25:11.000 And so we're investing in historic things like F-47, a sixth-generation fighter.

00:25:15.000 We're investing in things that have never been done before with multiple Manhattan projects and Golden Dome for America to protect our homeland.

00:25:24.000 We're talking about reinvesting in things or investing in things that we've never invested in before, Charlie.

00:25:29.000 And so we've got to give the SECF the resources that he needs to accomplish the president's vision.

00:25:36.000 And that's part of the reason why we have the resources that we do in this budget.

00:25:39.000 In closing here, Sean, talk about the increase of military recruitment.

00:25:43.000 That is, it's one of my favorite things.

00:25:46.000 I told Pete this privately and publicly.

00:25:48.000 I said, Pete, you guys should be talking about this every day because that right there, it's better than some Rasmussen poll or some sort of morning concert poll.

00:25:57.000 The president has said this to me before as well, which Is the best indicator of national morale strengthening, of the ability to see whether or not people believe in America and they want to serve the country is military recruitment.

00:26:12.000 Remember, after 9-11, military recruitment went straight up, right?

00:26:16.000 We've seen this at different times in American history.

00:26:19.000 And also in the midst of Vietnam, voluntary military recruitment went down.

00:26:24.000 Voluntary military recruitment started to go down towards the end of the Iraq war.

00:26:29.000 It also was at record low levels per percentage under Joe Biden, especially after the Afghanistan withdrawal.

00:26:37.000 Where is it now?

00:26:39.000 And brag on the success of the increase of the military recruitment.

00:26:47.000 So right now I'm co-chairing the recruiting task force here at the Department of Defense force-wide.

00:26:51.000 So we could probably do another interview deep dive on all of this because it's an interesting yet complicated topic.

00:26:57.000 But you are absolutely right.

00:26:59.000 The proof is in the pudding.

00:27:00.000 And as it pertains to recruiting, leadership matters.

00:27:05.000 So take our, let's go back a year where President Trump was almost assassinated on that stage in Butler under fire.

00:27:11.000 You don't know, even people that have all the training in the world don't know how they're going to react under fire.

00:27:17.000 President Trump was almost assassinated on that day.

00:27:20.000 And within seconds of being shot, the president stood up, pumped his fist, looked out to the crowd, looked out to our country, looked out to the world, and said, fight, fight, fight defiantly.

00:27:30.000 So you juxtapose that image with the image of Biden, his predecessor before him, who as an animated corpse had to be dipped in the Lazarus pit every day.

00:27:39.000 Every day it was less and less affected, hardly an inspiring figure.

00:27:42.000 And by the way, a week after President Trump was almost assassinated, Biden resigns the presidency in a PDF on social media, which is almost the equivalent of writing, I quit on a napkin at work before you leave.

00:27:53.000 I mean, Biden embodied weakness.

00:27:56.000 President Trump embodies strength.

00:27:58.000 Likewise, so too does Secretary Hegseth.

00:28:01.000 And when you embody strength, it inspires people to say, hey, I want to serve under that commander-in-chief.

00:28:07.000 I want to serve under this Secretary of Defense.

00:28:09.000 And that is the reason why our recruiting right now has been historic.

00:28:14.000 And I don't think there's going to be any end in sight, Charlie.

00:28:17.000 Sean Parnell, great work.

00:28:18.000 Thank you so much.

00:28:19.000 Talk to you soon.

00:28:20.000 You're welcome anytime here.

00:28:21.000 And make sure you keep those recruitment numbers up.

00:28:24.000 It's very important.

00:28:24.000 Thank you so much, Sean Parnell.

00:28:26.000 Got it.

00:28:26.000 Excellent.

00:28:27.000 Great guy.

00:28:28.000 Email us freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:28:30.000 Okay, so last night, we lost a legend.

00:28:33.000 John MacArthur passed away last night.

00:28:35.000 John MacArthur has been in and out of hospitals and he has been struggling with pneumonia and other health issues.

00:28:41.000 He passed away at the age of 84.

00:28:43.000 John MacArthur is without a doubt one of the most influential Protestant minds since the Reformation.

00:28:51.000 I would put him top 10.

00:28:53.000 I have an entire part of my library wall just dedicated to John MacArthur's biblical commentary.

00:29:04.000 He was one of the most well-read, researched, wise, and deep thinkers, and an unwavering pastor.

00:29:15.000 I actually never met him in person, and I regret that.

00:29:18.000 Our schedules never align, but we did many Zoom calls and phone calls together.

00:29:23.000 So praise the Lord that we were able to do that.

00:29:25.000 John MacArthur goes all the way back to fighting against Gavin Newsom, against same-sex marriage.

00:29:35.000 He was putting on a clinic against then, I think, Mayor Newsom or activist Newsom.

00:29:41.000 Play Cut 328.

00:29:43.000 I'm a practicing Catholic.

00:29:44.000 I got married in the church two plus years.

00:29:47.000 I don't see what we're doing in terms of advancing the bond of love and monogamy and extending that to families, families of same sex, in any way, shape, or form takes away anything from the church or the sanctity of the union that my wife and I have.

00:30:00.000 I would just like to ask the mayor as a practice Catholic, do you believe the Bible is the Word of God?

00:30:05.000 Look, Pastor, I'm not going to get in a theological debate with you that.

00:30:08.000 Well, that's not a theological debate.

00:30:09.000 That's just a straight question.

00:30:10.000 Do you believe the Bible is the authoritative word of God?

00:30:13.000 Yeah, with respect, I guess I do.

00:30:16.000 Now the response.

00:30:17.000 Well, then the Bible says when God created man, he said, one man, one woman cleave together for life. 0.95

00:30:23.000 That's a family.

00:30:24.000 Jesus in the New Testament reaffirms that.

00:30:27.000 All the writers of the Old and the New Testament affirm it.

00:30:30.000 The clip actually keeps on getting better.

00:30:32.000 Let's try to get the full one at another time.

00:30:34.000 But here's why John MacArthur will go down as a legend in my book.

00:30:38.000 It's not his books.

00:30:40.000 It's not all of his commentary.

00:30:41.000 It's not even his sermons.

00:30:42.000 And that is exceptional.

00:30:43.000 And I will listen to it.

00:30:45.000 It's because when it mattered most, when churches were closing and they were taking Easter and Pentecost and the entire Californian government was coming down on churches and most bent a knee and they refused to open.

00:31:04.000 Of course, my pastor and dear friend Rob McCoy did not.

00:31:06.000 John MacArthur and all eyes of the nation were on John MacArthur.

00:31:11.000 All pastors were watching and see, what is John MacArthur going to do?

00:31:14.000 And he openly defied the California government.

00:31:18.000 He rejected the lockdowns.

00:31:20.000 And John MacArthur did something that is one of the most difficult, one of the most important parts of a Christian walk is he finished well.

00:31:33.000 He never bowed to the gods of this age.

00:31:35.000 He never apologized for scripture.

00:31:38.000 He was a fighter through and through.

00:31:40.000 And the last chapter of John MacArthur's legendary career, from fighting homosexual marriage, from fighting against the trans stuff, which he was incredible, the final part of his chapter was, will you resist government tyranny or will you submit to the will of God?

00:31:59.000 And he crushed it and he aced it.

00:32:03.000 Tragically, so many other Christian pastors, and I will not say their name, they're finishing really poorly right now.

00:32:10.000 There's a list of guys, men, that were good, that were strong, and they became weak during COVID and woke.

00:32:19.000 John MacArthur, though, fully embodied 2 Timothy 4, 7.

00:32:26.000 I have fought the good fight.

00:32:28.000 I have finished the race, and I have kept the faith.

00:32:32.000 John MacArthur and I have something in common.

00:32:34.000 We're both Scots.

00:32:36.000 We don't like being told what to do.

00:32:38.000 We're lovers of liberty, lovers of freedom, lovers of America.

00:32:44.000 John MacArthur is now in heaven with our Lord, and we will continue the fight that he started.

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00:33:58.000 As we have said prior, it is time for us to try to put a path forward and to try to figure out a path forward of a way that this administration might solve what is happening with the Epstein situation.

00:34:11.000 Joining us now is Mark Caputo, reporter for Axios, that is axios.com.

00:34:16.000 Axios has been covering this story throughout all of its different elements.

00:34:21.000 So Mark, great to see you.

00:34:22.000 So Mark, on this program, obviously I said a lot of my friends are in the administration, but we've really never seen grassroots anger like this.

00:34:30.000 We want the administration to succeed.

00:34:34.000 We want to see on this program this thing rectified, and we want the truth to come out.

00:34:39.000 Mark, what does your reporting show?

00:34:41.000 And then please walk us through your excellent piece.

00:34:43.000 I'm not sure how much truth can actually come out.

00:34:46.000 We can discuss that in depth.

00:34:48.000 It's very difficult and complicated to explain legal process.

00:34:51.000 People are expecting a lot more than would be available under any administration.

00:34:56.000 But for now, Donald Trump has basically said he's done with this and he's moving on.

00:35:01.000 And the DOJ memo that got released last Sunday speaking to such is going to control.

00:35:07.000 Now, obviously, the blowback has been so severe and so serious that White House advisors, Trump advisors, both in the administration, outside of the administration, are talking about different ideas if they do decide to do a course correction.

00:35:21.000 Now, obviously, they're not going to call it a course correction.

00:35:24.000 And there's basically three ideas here, as you have on the screen.

00:35:28.000 Idea number one is have some sort of special counsel, some sort of special prosecutor or a team, a special master to review the case from top to bottom or to review the criminal elements of it from top to bottom to make sure it was prosecuted properly.

00:35:45.000 And that helps get around Trump's discussion or statement that he's sort of done with this.

00:35:51.000 There are still things to examine here.

00:35:53.000 So that's number one.

00:35:55.000 Number two is unredact those things that have been redacted.

00:35:59.000 There is on the FBI website something called the Vault.

00:36:02.000 You can read a number of Jeffrey Epstein documents there.

00:36:05.000 Many are redacted.

00:36:06.000 There are other documents that haven't been uploaded to that because it was just a massive investigation, a series of investigations over time.

00:36:14.000 And the number three is courts have sealed various records in both the criminal case and in some of the civil cases, is petitioned the courts to unseal those.

00:36:23.000 And this would bring more transparency and more stuff to light.

00:36:27.000 Now, there's a lot of caveats here.

00:36:29.000 Mike Davis with the Article 3 Project has been very forceful about this on Twitter, and he's right, which is grand jury testimony, which, and there is grand jury documentation that has not been released, is kept secret for a reason.

00:36:43.000 There are people who are accused in these closed door proceedings of various things.

00:36:50.000 There is evidence that's brought against them.

00:36:52.000 But in a grand jury, it's not rebutted evidence.

00:36:55.000 That is, you don't have the defense counsel saying, wait a minute, what you're showing here is not true.

00:36:59.000 It can be rebutted.

00:37:00.000 It can be explained.

00:37:01.000 It can be expanded or whatnot.

00:37:03.000 That's not in there.

00:37:04.000 So if you just wind up releasing grand jury testimony, for instance, you could really come up with a warped sense of who is guilty and who isn't.

00:37:12.000 And that sort of controls in understanding how the Department of Justice got to the situation.

00:37:18.000 And more broadly is the Justice Department since forever has never really disclosed and does not like to disclose and understandably doesn't disclose information about potential suspects unless it's ready to indict.

00:37:34.000 One of the reasons you'll read it, say, in an indictment of a conspiracy, if they're indicting Mark Caputo at Axios for some sort of crime.

00:37:42.000 And if one of my co-conspirators is Charlie Kirk, but he hasn't been charged yet, they'll just call you co-conspirator one.

00:37:49.000 They're not going to say Charlie Kirk until they're ready to indict.

00:37:52.000 And the reason for that, again, is you don't want to accuse people before they're charged.

00:37:56.000 And then once they're charged, they're still innocent until proven guilty.

00:38:00.000 In the court of public opinion, when you just start releasing all of this documentation, you don't have that careful, controlled process by which the truth can be arrived at through our legal system.

00:38:11.000 Look, but we have to start to see some credible information to come out, credible information.

00:38:15.000 And so the first question I have from your reporting, why is it that there has not been, for nine days now, not a singular press conference?

00:38:23.000 I mean, Caroline Levitt tried her best. 0.91

00:38:25.000 And then also, Mark, why is it that a lot of your colleagues in the Washington Press Corps have not asked the president about this for nearly a week and a half?

00:38:34.000 I think there was some questioning that was done outside of Air Force One, but had I been there, I would have certainly asked a little more about it.

00:38:42.000 But Donald Trump certainly doesn't want to talk about it.

00:38:44.000 As for whether Pam Bondi and to a degree, the deputy DOJ, Deputy Attorney General, Todd Blanche, who's in charge of the criminal division, whether they wind up talking to the press, perhaps you, a podcast is probably a preferred Forum to discuss the case.

00:39:03.000 I think that's still an open question.

00:39:05.000 But for now, the administration is following the lead, as it does and as it's structured to do, of the president.

00:39:12.000 President Trump doesn't want to really talk about this, he wants to move on.

00:39:16.000 And so the official position now of the administration is: we've said what we've said.

00:39:21.000 And until the president decides to sort of uncork the bottle or decide to do more, we're not going to do more.

00:39:29.000 Right.

00:39:29.000 Just to one point here, though, I have to elaborate a little bit further, though.

00:39:33.000 I know you said the president doesn't want to talk about it, but since when is the Washington Press Corps not asked questions about stuff Trump doesn't want to talk about?

00:39:40.000 That's a great question.

00:39:41.000 Again, what I'm colleagues, not you, I'm not blaming you.

00:39:44.000 But I am curious.

00:39:45.000 I'm not blaming you.

00:39:46.000 Help the audience understand why your colleagues in the media are so uninterested in this.

00:39:52.000 I think there is some interest in this.

00:39:54.000 No, they don't ask me a single question.

00:39:56.000 I mean, there were 65 questions asked of President Trump in a week and a half.

00:40:01.000 And so from us in the grassroots, the reason this is important is that if he's not hearing from it from the Washington Press Corps, then he's like, okay, it's not as big of a deal.

00:40:12.000 So it's a little strange that the Washington Press Corps is not asking questions about it.

00:40:16.000 Maybe I don't quite, they're only covering one element of it.

00:40:20.000 They're covering the, well, you know, MAGA is upset about this.

00:40:24.000 Is it that maybe they're intimidated by President Trump?

00:40:28.000 I'd say there's a number of factors.

00:40:29.000 One, yes, he can be scary for people to ask questions of, and some people don't necessarily do a very good job asking the question of that.

00:40:35.000 I'm not going to name names.

00:40:36.000 Two, there is the overall perception in the mainstream media that the reality is the reason that sort of the online MAGA base and a number of people who might not even be Trump voters think there's so much more here is that they were spun up by conspiracy theories that wound up either being untrue or unproducible or unverifiable.

00:41:02.000 So there's no point asking.

00:41:04.000 I, however, am in your boat here that I think more questions should be asked about what the president is thinking and why he arrived at this idea.

00:41:14.000 There is that notable Fox interview that resurfaced recently where he was asked about disclosing these records.

00:41:22.000 And his response, I thought, was kind of telling and not enough people, I think, had paid attention to it, which is he had mentioned that, and I'm sort of paraphrasing here, the reason he doesn't want to disclose those records is, quote, there's a lot of phony stuff in there.

00:41:37.000 And this stuff he doesn't want to get out.

00:41:40.000 And I think Donald Trump understands that because he was friends with Epstein for a period of time, he's going to be mentioned in there.

00:41:46.000 Now, Julie Brown, who is the Miami Herald reporter, who really was the one responsible for exposing the sweetheart deal that Epstein got and bringing him back to justice in 2018, 2019, she has said she has not really heard that Donald Trump is a major player there.

00:42:03.000 However, Trump is aware that once these documents get released, you're going to get those headlines, but there are also just other people who are going to be collateral damage.

00:42:10.000 And that's just a controlling concern of his.

00:42:12.000 That's something I would like to ask him more about, and I'd like to hear more from him.

00:42:16.000 And yeah, sure, if I have an opportunity, you know, you talk to Trump all the time.

00:42:20.000 If he wants to sit down with an interview with me or discuss it, I would be more than happy to do it.

00:42:24.000 We'll see what happens.

00:42:25.000 So, Mark, just really quick, is it's rare, but is it possible is the word I'm looking for to unseal the grand jury testimony?

00:42:36.000 I think it's possible.

00:42:40.000 But if it's unsealed, I cannot see how there would not be redactions in it that would make people happy.

00:42:50.000 Ultimately, part of the problem that the Trump administration has here is this is an article of faith by a number of people that there's an evil cabal of corrupt princes that rule this world and get away with crimes against children and humanity.

00:43:06.000 And the Epstein case is a perfect example.

00:43:09.000 And so if everything were to somehow come out, that would probably not be enough for some people.

00:43:15.000 But I'm not making a false choice here.

00:43:16.000 The reality is there's a space between what was released on Sunday and what has been released so far and what can be released.

00:43:25.000 So putting on my sort of thinking cap and listening to what folks in and out of the administration have said about these three sort of different ideas to bring more transparency to that.

00:43:35.000 One of the ideas, the leading one is to have that special master, a special prosecutor, special counsel to review the case and participate in sort of unredacting various documents and documentation.

00:43:50.000 And I think there you could wind up with grand jury information disclosed, but it would be so exceedingly rare and it would take quite an act by the president and by the government, by the Department of Justice to decide to stick by that.

00:44:06.000 I'm not going to say never, say never, but there's just such institutional resistance in DOJ regardless of who is there and partly understandably so.

00:44:16.000 But to your point, this has reached a, at least online, a crisis point for the administration to respond to.

00:44:24.000 And there is a contrast to be drawn between the way the administration is handling the Epstein case and the way it's handling the disclosure of the JFK files.

00:44:35.000 JFK was murdered 62 years ago, and we're still receiving documentation now and more evidence in part because the Trump administration has demanded that the United States government finally make good on the 1992 JFK Records Act and disclose everything.

00:44:50.000 And we're still learning new stuff.

00:44:53.000 And one of the reasons that's a good idea is that when you have information vacuums, false conspiracy theories easily fill it.

00:45:02.000 And in the absence of more information, I don't think a lot of people are going to be satisfied with the answers or lack thereof that they've gotten so far.

00:45:10.000 So what are the other two ideas then that you would propose to be able to proceed here?

00:45:15.000 Well, I wouldn't propose, just in my reporting, what they're discussing, it's understandable and it's rational, which is this special master to not only help disclose records and to issue a final report and to re-examine the case, But also to redact those records that have or unredact those records that have so far been released.

00:45:37.000 Some of that can be done relatively easily.

00:45:39.000 The government, regardless of agency and administration, always has a tendency to over-redact things.

00:45:45.000 And then lastly, to petition the courts to release those things that can be released without harming victims and innocent people who happen to be accused of wrongdoing or just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

00:45:58.000 So the final point, I suppose, here is that is it your reporting and your contention that the current information that the Department of Justice has, they cannot release or they will not release?

00:46:11.000 And what is the reason your reporting bears out as to why they cannot or will not release all the information gathered currently at the Department of Justice?

00:46:21.000 I think it's a combination of cannot release and will not release.

00:46:24.000 That is, they are sort of, they are still bound.

00:46:28.000 The Department of Justice is a group of attorneys, and they're bound by their oath to the court and the U.S. legal system.

00:46:34.000 And the U.S. legal system, to put it charitably, frowns on disclosing things like grand jury testimony for the reasons previously stated.

00:46:42.000 But where there's a will, there's a way.

00:46:44.000 And if President Trump determines that this stuff needs to be done, I assume that it's going to get done in a relatively short period of time, but it's going to take a while.

00:46:55.000 Mark, thank you for your time.

00:46:56.000 Axios.com.

00:46:57.000 I appreciate it.

00:46:58.000 Thank you.

00:46:59.000 Thanks.

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00:47:57.000 Joining us now is Mike Benz.

00:47:59.000 Mike does a wonderful job.

00:48:00.000 Mike, thank you for taking the time.

00:48:02.000 So, Mike, I want to keep our conversation very focused on what can be done.

00:48:06.000 A separate time we could talk about all the unanswered questions of which there are a plenty and the messaging fumble and all of that.

00:48:14.000 If you were advising the president of the United States, if President Donald Trump called you up and said, Mike, what should I do that is reasonable, what would you tell him to do?

00:48:23.000 I would tell him to have Pam Bondi walk down the hallway at Maine Justice to the Office of Professional Responsibility, OPR, and pull all files related to the November 2020 OPR report that evaluated Jeffrey Epstein's 2008 plea deal.

00:48:42.000 In the process of that OPR investigation, they interviewed everyone at justice who was involved in that 2008 plea deal, Jeffrey Epstein, and sought to put the story to bed by collecting transcribed interviews, audio, and basically reams of files.

00:49:01.000 The report itself took nine months to produce.

00:49:04.000 It's 348 pages long, but it leaves out the critical information that's necessary for both the public and the current Justice Department to understand the Epstein issue.

00:49:14.000 In particular, they interviewed Alex Acosta, the main Justice Department official who gave Jeffrey Epstein the sweetheart plea deal about Epstein's intelligence ties.

00:49:25.000 They have a one-line summary for that conversation buried in a footnote on footnote 244.

00:49:33.000 Pull that transcript from DOJ OPR and Alex Acosta and make that transcript public so we know exactly what the Justice Department asked about Epstein's intelligence ties and exactly what Acosta, who cut the plea deal, said.

00:49:48.000 Okay, so let me just repeat that.

00:49:51.000 So this was an OPR Office of what again?

00:49:55.000 Professional Responsibility.

00:49:56.000 Postal Responsibility internal report on Jeffrey Epstein.

00:49:59.000 Is that correct?

00:50:00.000 Well, they produced it for the public.

00:50:02.000 This was, so here's the history of this.

00:50:05.000 The second indictment for Jeffrey Epstein happened after a, I believe it was the Miami Herald published a kind of blockbuster series in 2018 about the contents of the secret plea deal that the Justice Department cut,

00:50:22.000 the fact that it had been offered before the Justice Department even reviewed key evidence, that victims were not included in the talks about the plea deal, that it had been hijacked from, the FBI had been stopped from pursuing prosecution.

00:50:38.000 That creates a big scandal.

00:50:40.000 And in February 2019, the Justice Department announces that it's going to be conducting this basically special review, this Office of Professional Responsibility review of the Epstein plea deal in response to the giant outrage over the Miami Herald series.

00:51:02.000 Now, five months later, Jeffrey Epstein in July 2019 gets arrested on July 6, 2019.

00:51:10.000 Three days later, Vicki Ward publishes an article saying Alex Acosta said that Jeffrey Epstein belonged to intelligence, and that's why he cut him the plea deal.

00:51:22.000 He was told to back off.

00:51:24.000 So here's my question.

00:51:25.000 So are you saying that there are transcripts that could get released that were the underlying supportive material of this OPR report?

00:51:34.000 Yes.

00:51:35.000 Okay, got it.

00:51:35.000 So you want the raw data underneath the OPR report, essentially.

00:51:40.000 That's the thrust of your focus.

00:51:43.000 If the president was asking, hey, what do I do?

00:51:46.000 Yes, because the meta question that hangs over this whole thing is, is it true?

00:51:51.000 Did he get the plea deal because he, quote, belonged to intelligence?

00:51:54.000 And if that's true, that's the question that just has to be answered, or at least Has to be attempted to be answered because that's really the great speculation that you can't answer fully without some sort of confirmation or at least boxes being checked.

00:52:14.000 Now, in that process, by the way, Charlie, OPR works with the CIA Office of General Counsel.

00:52:20.000 The Office of General Counsel is who coordinates with the Justice Department OPR whenever there's anything sensitive or relating to classified or confidential information.

00:52:32.000 Oftentimes, the DOJ and CIA will work together on any sort of classified element.

00:52:39.000 And I would like to know, for example, I think the public has a right to know in the production of this November 2020 report, because it's so strange the way it's put together.

00:52:49.000 It was supposed to put the intelligence issue to bed, and they buried it in one line on page 169.

00:52:55.000 Okay, so let's dive into that.

00:52:56.000 So this is a big part of this.

00:52:58.000 So the question is, was Jeffrey Epstein an intelligence asset?

00:53:02.000 And some people are saying that he was an intelligence asset of Mossad.

00:53:05.000 I do have to read this, and I want your response.

00:53:07.000 This is from Naftali Bennett, former Israeli prime minister.

00:53:11.000 He says yesterday, quote, as former Israeli prime minister, with the Mossad having reported directly to me, I can say with you 100% certainty, quote, the accusation that Jeffrey Epstein somehow worked for Israel or the Mossad running a blackmail ring is categorically and totally false.

00:53:27.000 Epstein's conduct, both the criminal and merely despicable, had nothing whatsoever to do with Mossad or the state of Israel.

00:53:33.000 Epstein never worked for the Mossad.

00:53:36.000 This accusation is a lie being peddled by, he mentions Tucker Carlson by name, who's a friend of mine, but he does mention him.

00:53:43.000 And they just make things up, say with confidence and lies, this is vicious.

00:53:46.000 Lies, we will not take it anymore. 0.99

00:53:47.000 It's a pretty strong, and this is an X, that is a pretty strong, let's say, response.

00:53:55.000 So rebuttal.

00:53:56.000 Do you believe that, Mike?

00:53:59.000 Pretty strong denial.

00:54:00.000 Do you believe that?

00:54:02.000 Or number one, number two, could Jeffrey Epstein been MI6, Central Intelligence, Saudi intelligence?

00:54:08.000 Mike Bence.

00:54:09.000 When I hear that, I hear the same sort of carefully worded statement that I hear from the CIA side.

00:54:15.000 I don't believe that Jeffrey Epstein, his intelligence aspects were primarily around blackmail.

00:54:23.000 I've never been really interested in the blackmail side of this.

00:54:27.000 He was a financier.

00:54:28.000 He was a financial fixer.

00:54:31.000 The CIA, I can name 10 examples of what do you mean a financial fixer?

00:54:37.000 Because obviously he didn't make his money.

00:54:39.000 I mean, he didn't earn it through trades or by market brilliance.

00:54:42.000 So what do you mean by that?

00:54:44.000 Think about figures like Mark Rich and Bruce Rappaport.

00:54:48.000 These are people who work with U.S. intelligence, as well as Israeli intelligence, as well as intelligence agencies across the Five Eyes and across the sort of old Safari Club from the 70s and 80s.

00:55:01.000 These are figures who have access to huge amounts of capital.

00:55:07.000 And when the CIA wants to do something off books in terms of transaction or the State Department wants a pipeline done in the Middle East, but they need guarantees or buy-in from a couple of different governments or arms brokers.

00:55:23.000 I mean, this is like the Adnan Khashoggi story, for example, right?

00:55:26.000 Adnan Khashoggi, Jeffrey Epstein personally bragged that Adnan Khashoggi was one of his top clients in 1987.

00:55:34.000 Well, what was Adnan Khashoggi doing in 1987?

00:55:38.000 Adnan Khashoggi was the middleman between the U.S. and Israel on Iran-Contra.

00:55:45.000 It was Adnan Khashoggi when he flew to the White House.

00:55:48.000 Now, Adnan Khashoggi was a Saudi, the biggest arms dealer in world history. 0.98

00:55:54.000 He made three times more as a commissions agent for Lockheed Martin than every other arms broker combined.

00:56:01.000 Three times more.

00:56:01.000 So let me just interrupt you.

00:56:02.000 Sorry, Mike, this is breaking news.

00:56:04.000 This is 334.

00:56:05.000 President Trump was asked about Jeffrey Epstein, saying that anything that is credible should be released.

00:56:10.000 It's funny, we said the same thing yesterday, just moments ago, play cut 334.

00:56:17.000 A very, very quick briefing.

00:56:19.000 Did she tell you, what did she tell you about the review and specifically?

00:56:22.000 Didn't she tell you at all that your name appeared in the file?

00:56:25.000 No, no, she's given us just a very quick briefing.

00:56:31.000 And in terms of the credibility of the different things that they've seen, and I would say that, you know, these files were made up by Comey.

00:56:39.000 They were made up by Obama.

00:56:40.000 They were made up by the Biden, you know.

00:56:44.000 And we went through years of that with the Russia-Russia hoax, with all of the different things that we had to go through.

00:56:51.000 We've gone through years of it, but she's handled it very well, and it's going to be up to her.

00:56:56.000 Whatever she thinks is credible, she should release.

00:56:59.000 That's the end at the kicker here.

00:57:02.000 So Mike, I'm sorry to interrupt because that was very important.

00:57:04.000 We're going to go long here, by the way, so we're going to be able to cover this from all dimensions.

00:57:08.000 So based on your original point, that OPR Office of General Counsel transcript would be credible, right?

00:57:15.000 And then potentially could be released.

00:57:17.000 So that would fit within what you're talking about here, Mike Bence.

00:57:22.000 Exactly.

00:57:22.000 Hard forensic evidence.

00:57:24.000 I also believe that on the CIA side, you're not looking for blackmail.

00:57:29.000 I'm not saying blackmail didn't happen.

00:57:32.000 I don't know if it did or didn't, but I don't see the evidence that it did.

00:57:36.000 And it wouldn't be Epstein himself who would be doing it because then you lose all the access and you lose all the deal brokering if you have a reputation as a blackmailer.

00:57:47.000 The fact is, is what the CIA needs first and foremost is money.

00:57:52.000 Jeffrey Epstein's career started at the time of the creation of a private CIA in the CIA.

00:57:59.000 He started his career at Bear Stearns under A. Screenberg in 1976.

00:58:04.000 He was there until 1980.

00:58:06.000 That's the exact period under Jimmy Carter when the CIA got destroyed in the budget, got all these handcuffs placed on it.

00:58:16.000 In 1979, Iran fell.

00:58:19.000 And this is what set off a whole private CIA operation through Iran-Contra in the Iran-Iraq war between 1980, 1988.

00:58:31.000 And it was this exact network of financiers, primarily around U.S., Israel, but also U.K., France, and Saudi, and their interests in having to deal with Iran.

00:58:44.000 And so you have these financial fixers.

00:58:47.000 Like, let's just stick with this Khashoggi story for a second here.

00:58:50.000 When Khashoggi flew to the White House in 1983 to meet with Ronald Reagan's national security advisor to pitch the idea of arms to Iran to sell the proceeds to Nicaragua, the whole plan was how do you do that despite an arms embargo, the fact that it's illegal.

00:59:09.000 So what they did is they used Israel as a middleman to sell the arms and then achieve the goals in Nicaragua. 0.54

00:59:18.000 But this was a U.S. intelligence operation that needed covert financing through Adnan Khashoggi, who, Jeffrey Epstein client, in order to sell arms to Iran to basically have a proxy war in Nicaragua.

00:59:35.000 What I'm saying is, is this is the sort of thing that you need for covert action, you need covert financing.

00:59:41.000 Jeffrey Epstein, everyone who talks to him.

00:59:44.000 Okay, so he says, let me just be, sorry, Mike.

00:59:47.000 But then where do you think is the source of the money then?

00:59:50.000 Well, I think the source of the money are the folks in different aspects of the finance world who are principally who have access to the pools of money that Epstein brokered.

01:00:03.000 So for example, I think that Jeffrey Epstein got his start of his career serving Bear Starn's.

01:00:09.000 Well, I think it started, I mean, with the Edgar Bronfin and the Ace Greenberg Network.

01:00:15.000 So Mike, I'm just trying to understand here.

01:00:17.000 So basically, your theory is he helped intelligence agencies by providing funds to people they wanted to give to indirectly.

01:00:25.000 He was a money man. 0.99

01:00:29.000 And the sex stuff was a sideshow because he was a creep, pervert, evil person. 1.00

01:00:33.000 Is that right? 0.99

01:00:34.000 Yeah, I don't even, I don't, not even thinking about the sex stuff.

01:00:38.000 That's not what would be in the intelligence files.

01:00:40.000 What I believe you would find if you look for it would be that was would be the different financial transactions, the private financial.

01:00:49.000 So the role would not be as an asset.

01:00:52.000 This is why I say I don't like when I hear the phrase intelligence asset and whenever I hear Pam Bondi being asked about it or Alex Acosta being asked about intelligence asset, I think, well, that's a limited hangout.

01:01:03.000 You know what you're asking there.

01:01:06.000 You know that's not the question.

01:01:07.000 There is not going to be a human 201 file on Jeffrey Epstein.

01:01:12.000 There never is for financial fixers.

01:01:15.000 I did a study recently of 10 financial fixers that the CIA used for various covert financing.

01:01:22.000 Name financial file one that people would know.

01:01:26.000 Bruce Rappaport, Mark Rich.

01:01:29.000 Like as I just said, I mean, I have a list on me if you want me to go to the name.

01:01:36.000 So a intelligence financial fixer, someone who is given a pool of money and distributes it upon command.

01:01:44.000 No, no, no, no, no.

01:01:45.000 They're not given a pool of money.

01:01:47.000 They have access to money.

01:01:50.000 So let me give you an example.

01:01:51.000 Okay.

01:01:51.000 In 1951, declassified CIA records show the head of intelligence, head of research analysis for the CIA sending a letter to the head of the CIA saying, next time you talk to the Ford Foundation, ask them if they can provide financing to the following universities.

01:02:12.000 Now, this is because the CIA doesn't have enough money in the budget to fund 30 different universities.

01:02:19.000 They want financing for research done at universities on Sovietology, on what's going on in Africa or Asia.

01:02:27.000 They don't have the money for it.

01:02:28.000 They can't get it through Congress, but they have friends, friends of the station.

01:02:33.000 And so they will speak with outside groups or they'll speak with foundations or hedge fund managers to arrange financing that is not on the CIA's books.

01:02:45.000 And that will accomplish the goal.

01:02:48.000 It's the same thing with Epstein.

01:02:51.000 Epstein is, I don't think, is moving CIA money.

01:02:54.000 The CIA has a goal, for example, in the Middle East.

01:02:59.000 They want a pipeline constructed or they want some initiative to go through, but it requires juicing the deal by getting buy-in from folks in Saudi Arabia, folks in Egypt, folks in France.

01:03:16.000 Somebody has to put that deal together and be responsible for the deal in case it goes wrong.

01:03:22.000 And also, sometimes these deals are quite dirty or they inflame other allies of the United States.

01:03:28.000 So the U.S. does not want to look like it put the deal together.

01:03:33.000 So let's use a specific example.

01:03:35.000 I mentioned a couple of names like Bruce Rappaport, Mark Rich, and the like.

01:03:41.000 So Bruce Rappaport, there's a scandal that folks would do well to look back at today.

01:03:47.000 And that was the pipeline scandal in the 1980s that involved Ronald Reagan's attorney general during the attempted construction of a pipeline through Iraq.

01:04:00.000 Now, this was that the Iraq was being, the pipeline was to be built by basically the Bechtel-Halliburton Network, a U.S. company, but there was a lot of tensions because of the Iran-Iraq war.

01:04:13.000 And so the U.S. government wanted this pipeline done.

01:04:18.000 The CIA wanted this pipeline done.

01:04:20.000 They believed that it would advance U.S. interest to do so, but they wanted to make sure that Israel did not attack the pipeline because of its proximity to the conflict zone.

01:04:31.000 So what they did is they engaged Bruce Rappaport, a outside, highly controversial financier, Swiss Israeli, who was also basically a very close friend of William Casey, the CIA director.

01:04:50.000 They were golfing buddies.

01:04:52.000 They were close friends.

01:04:54.000 They met very frequently.

01:04:56.000 And Bruce Rappaport played the role of not only providing the financing, but ensuring that there would be security guarantees because he was very close with friends in the Israeli government.

01:05:11.000 Now, what happened there was there ended up being a special prosecutor investigation into the Attorney General of the United States because of this scandal, because they argued that there was kind of a pay-to-play aspect going on with this.

01:05:29.000 And they argued that there were bribes, but what Bruce Rappaport ended up saying later was, no, no, no, according to the, there were no bribes.

01:05:36.000 According to this secret deal, the Israeli government was actually going to get a 30% equity stake in it.

01:05:41.000 So nobody actually got paid.

01:05:43.000 But the fact is, at that point, you need to coordinate four different Middle East governments, as well as U.S. and U.S. contractor interests in this.

01:05:51.000 So this is what I believe the girls are in the Epstein story.

01:05:54.000 Girls juice deals.

01:05:56.000 When you are having to coordinate with all these sort of saudi shakes and high net worth individuals, and you're doing business, you're doing deals, and being around young women for parties and things like that is a way to create an environment where people like hanging out with you and want to do deals with you because these deals last for years.

01:06:22.000 They want to be around.

01:06:24.000 They may think they can only get access to the deals.

01:06:27.000 So you think the girls were a means to the money. 0.56

01:06:30.000 The money was not a means to the girls. 0.98

01:06:33.000 I think the girls were a way primarily of juicing deals. 1.00

01:06:36.000 You're more likely to do business with someone who provides you a currency you can't get elsewhere.

01:06:42.000 You have these 60, 70 year old dudes who can't meet an 18-year-old girl at a bar anymore.

01:06:49.000 Where do you meet them?

01:06:50.000 Well, you meet them at Jeffrey Epstein's place.

01:06:52.000 Hey, if I do this deal with Jeffrey Epstein, he can supply me with girls.

01:06:56.000 So even though this pipeline might not be in my interest, even if I really don't care about the petroleum market in Kenya, even if I really don't want to sell guns to Antigua, I know if I do this deal, then I had a great time at that last party.

01:07:12.000 I'd like to be included at the next one.

01:07:14.000 And so that is a very plausible.

01:07:17.000 I'm not saying definitively that's what's happening.

01:07:20.000 That's what happened here.

01:07:21.000 But that explains it, in my view, without even having to go much farther than that.

01:07:27.000 Because here's the thing.

01:07:28.000 You don't have 201 files.

01:07:30.000 You don't have these.

01:07:32.000 An intelligence asset is someone who is formally recruited.

01:07:36.000 And there needs to be counterintelligence done on that.

01:07:39.000 It's a process.

01:07:41.000 There's a vast field beyond asset, and it's called cooperative contact or facilitator or liaison.

01:07:51.000 And these are the brokers because you need these brokers, these fall guy type figures, but who also are willing to broker make sense.

01:08:00.000 No, that's the key word.

01:08:01.000 Now it's really hit.

01:08:05.000 Right now, over 7.5 million businesses in America are thriving on TikTok.

01:08:10.000 We certainly are.

01:08:10.000 We're reaching the next generation rather successfully there.

01:08:13.000 Businesses that employ more than 28 million people.

01:08:16.000 But behind the stats, it's the stories that really matter.

01:08:19.000 Like Dan O. Seasoning from Kentucky, who used TikTok to reach new customers and grow from a one-man show to a team of 45.

01:08:26.000 Or Arizona Taco King in Arizona, able to employ over 28 people and pay them well, thanks to the foot traffic TikTok brings in.

01:08:34.000 Or She Mechanic in Georgia, who expanded her auto shop and hired new employees with the support she found on TikTok.

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01:08:48.000 Learn more about TikTok's contribution to the U.S. economy at TikTokEconomicImpact.com.

01:08:54.000 That is TikTokEconomicImpact.com.

01:08:59.000 Look at Bill Burns, for example.

01:09:00.000 As I mentioned, all of these, whether you're talking about Mark Rich, whether you're talking about Adnan Khashoggi, whether you're talking about Bruce Rappaport, they're all personal friends of the Central Intelligence Agency while maintaining close ties with both Israeli intelligence as well as several other partners across the Middle East and Western Europe.

01:09:19.000 But what I'm getting at here with the Bill Burns case is Bill Burns, the CIA director, came out earlier this year, met three times with Jeffrey Epstein in 2014, including two times at Jeffrey Epstein's house.

01:09:33.000 Now, why would the, now remember, Bill Burns spent his whole year in the U.S. State Department, 35 years there, and ended up not only as Deputy Secretary of State, but as Under Secretary for Political Affairs.

01:09:47.000 That's the number three spot.

01:09:48.000 That's the CIA spot.

01:09:50.000 According to the JFK files, the Arthur Schlesinger memo said that 48% of all political affairs folks at state were actually not at state.

01:10:00.000 They were CIA under diplomatic cover of political affairs.

01:10:03.000 That's the division Bill Burns ran before he became Deputy Secretary of State and then on to becoming the, obviously, you know, the head of the CIA in 2021.

01:10:15.000 But from 2014 to 2021, Bill Burns goes private.

01:10:19.000 He leaves running the CIA wing of the State Department to found, to be the head of the Carnegie Endowment, one of the biggest, most influential and oldest think tanks in the United States, who is frequently used as a back channel for shadow diplomacy.

01:10:35.000 Now, that 2014, the very year, the first meeting that Bill Burns had with Jeffrey Epstein was while he was at the State Department.

01:10:45.000 The next two he had in 2014 were while he was the head of the Carnegie Endowment.

01:10:50.000 What he is doing there is he is going to Epstein's financial network behind Epstein to see what those donors want to do about funding the Carnegie Endowment and what kind of deals, what kind of things they can do at Carnegie that the donors will give money for.

01:11:06.000 That's why everybody goes to Epstein.

01:11:08.000 That's why they go there for the money.

01:11:10.000 That's why Bill Gates said he went to for Epstein because of the money.

01:11:15.000 That's what Bill Burns will go there for because of the money.

01:11:19.000 That's what the CIA will go there for because of the money.

01:11:22.000 We want this thing arranged.

01:11:24.000 And the other thing is Jeffrey Epstein's, his specialty was in sheltering these things in complicated offshore debt structurings in order to hide them from regulators, in order to hide them from asset collectors and creditors.

01:11:42.000 And so he moved this whole thing through a complex Byzantine web of offshore bank accounts and Cayman Island bank accounts while brokering the deals.

01:11:51.000 So that way the CIA, Israeli intelligence, Saudi intelligence, everyone gets to be hands-off.

01:11:58.000 But he's not formally recruited, I don't believe.

01:12:01.000 Got it.

01:12:02.000 No, no, no, no.

01:12:03.000 Not formally recruited by.

01:12:04.000 I'm sorry.

01:12:05.000 Yes, you're not going to have a 201 file.

01:12:08.000 You're not going to have an asset file.

01:12:10.000 But what you will be able to find, I believe, is if you look at the transactions, for example, you look at all the trace requests done for requests of Epstein's name at CIA.

01:12:19.000 You go to the Office of General Counsel.

01:12:22.000 And for example, like what's actual right now is, did the Office of General Counsel, the Central Intelligence Agency, have any input whatsoever in Alex Acosta's interview with Justice Department about Epstein's intelligence ties.

01:12:36.000 What was the traffic between the head of OPR and Bill Barr, as well as Jeffrey Rose and the Deputy Attorney General?

01:12:44.000 Did they try to block an investigation into the intelligence ties in 2008?

01:12:51.000 Is any of that shown in the 2020 November?

01:12:53.000 I just don't think that Pam Bondi's even looked.

01:12:55.000 I don't think that they even knew to look there for leads, as well as everything that the CIA Liaison at Justice, as well as the Office of General Counsel of CIA, interfered in or gave input to about the 2020 OPR report.

01:13:12.000 Because my suspicion is that you may see some very squirrely things around the CIA Office of General Counsel and the November 2020 OPR report.

01:13:24.000 Justice Department should review that and tell us the contents of what they find.

01:13:29.000 And then from there, you want to go to the CIA's financial division.

01:13:32.000 You want to look at the special economic activities, to look at all the transactions Epstein was involved in, to see what financial interlocutors, what cooperative contacts were pulled in the finance space to put those deals together where Epstein was working.

01:13:47.000 And I note among them the Clinton Foundation.

01:13:50.000 It was Epstein who put together, he's credited with coming up with the idea of the Clinton Global Initiative, which was a swirling hodgepodge from the Secretary of State of foreign mercenaries and oligarchs and Ukrainian oligarchs and Viktor Pinchuk and that whole network all funneling money into this nonprofit for it to do various activities around the world that might help their own interests.

01:14:18.000 All of this can be matched with CIA files in the special economic activities.

01:14:24.000 So just to explain it about, so would it be fair to say that Epstein was a deep state fixer, moving money around to accomplish aims which benefited elite institutions and deep state intelligence goals?

01:14:39.000 Is that a fair summary?

01:14:40.000 Yes, but I would add part-time.

01:14:44.000 And this is the important part of it, as I see the case, is that he's a contact.

01:14:50.000 He's someone they can go to on a potential folks in the space, he is a friend of the station.

01:15:01.000 He is someone who is there if they need it done.

01:15:05.000 But I don't think that he's not talking to them every day.

01:15:09.000 It's a periodic thing, yes.

01:15:10.000 I'll add to it.

01:15:11.000 So it'd be fair to say that Epstein was a part-time deep state fixer, moving money around to accomplish aims which benefited elite institutions and deep state goals.

01:15:21.000 So now let's go to the second.

01:15:23.000 Let me just go to, you want to chime in really quick?

01:15:25.000 The one thing I'd say is, you know, there are deep state things, and you can make a weird argument that if you agree with the underlying foreign policy, that this is not unusual.

01:15:38.000 You know, I don't think you even need to go so far as to say deep state, even though obviously there are many deep state things about it.

01:15:44.000 I mean, this is just how business is done at CIA.

01:15:48.000 He was a financial fixer who could get access to money for covert operations as well as structure them in a way that would conceal the source of those funds, which is something that we used all throughout the Cold War.

01:16:01.000 When Jeffrey Epstein started doing this in the 1980s, we were in the middle of the Cold War.

01:16:05.000 Is it possible that much of this type of activity is responsible for, I mean, we did this.

01:16:11.000 We had financial fixers that we used to fund money of the Solidarity Movement in Poland, which operated in a very similar way in order to fund that union movement.

01:16:23.000 And that's dirty work.

01:16:25.000 It's money laundering.

01:16:26.000 It's using these set up to fail debt instrument banks to do it.

01:16:30.000 We gave it to the Solidarity Union Group in Poland, but that's how we kicked the Soviet Union out of Poland and brought it into the Western world. 0.98

01:16:40.000 So it's a complicated analysis, but that does not excuse, you have to tell us if it's there.

01:16:46.000 You have to look yourself first.

01:16:48.000 And unless we pressure them to say, hey, here's the exact file we know you have.

01:16:53.000 Hey, here's the exact search terms.

01:16:55.000 Here's exactly what you should tell the Office of General Counsel at the Central Intelligence Agency.

01:17:00.000 Then I think that because there is a there there, they're not going to want to do it if we don't give them specific asks.

01:17:06.000 Okay, so this is helpful to kind of hear your theory of the case.

01:17:11.000 To push back on this, though, there were reports that there were lots of cameras of these underage girls on the island or in the facility in New Mexico.

01:17:22.000 Do you think that it might have been soft, unspoken blackmail, meaning some of these guys might be more willing to do the deals because they might realize down the road that Jeffrey might have something on them and that even though he could or couldn't, but it could be a little bit of a sword of Damocles over the head of some of these guys?

01:17:43.000 Your thoughts, Mike Benz?

01:17:45.000 It's very possible.

01:17:46.000 Like I said, you know, I've been saying for years that I don't think Epstein would be the person doing the blackmail because the whole purpose of being a financial fixer is getting everyone in your network to love you and having such a good time together and you offering them experiences they can't get anywhere else so that they'll sign a multi-million or billion dollar, you know, financing.

01:18:07.000 You sort of spoil the party when you start blackmailing them.

01:18:10.000 But to the extent that he's working with intelligence services who have access to the information that he's collecting, that in theory could be used for blackmailing.

01:18:18.000 That's a good point.

01:18:19.000 Yeah, so I mean, after over a period of time, let's say they have one blowout, disgusting, pedophilic retreat, and they know they're being blackmailed, wouldn't that just be like a hard stop, like don't get near Jeffrey type thing?

01:18:31.000 That never happened, right?

01:18:33.000 Well, that's the problem is like, you know, they give it to some intelligence agency, the supposed blackmail, and then the intelligence agency, someone says, we know that you were at Jeffrey Epstein's house in November 2011 with a 13-year-old girl.

01:18:48.000 And it's like, okay, well, that guy's blown forever.

01:18:50.000 And so is everyone that he talks to.

01:18:52.000 That person's not going to sign a $10 million financing deal.

01:18:57.000 That person's not going to invest in this Latin American operation or this North African pipeline deal.

01:19:04.000 You can only get that if it was on Jeffrey Epstein's security cameras, oh crap, Epstein was recording me.

01:19:12.000 I'm going to tell my friends, my very powerful, powerful friends, don't be around Jeffrey Epstein.

01:19:19.000 He's actually setting us up for blackmail the whole time.

01:19:21.000 Now, that doesn't mean that it wasn't covertly collected and used as for whatever purposes it might be used for.

01:19:31.000 But there were so many, Charlie, there were thousands of people over 40 years.

01:19:36.000 Epstein started doing this in the 1980s.

01:19:39.000 There's not a single person in all that time who's publicly come forward and said, I was blackmailed by Jeffrey Epstein.

01:19:45.000 I mean, you could write, one story like that would sell $5 million in book sales, and nobody's done it.

01:19:53.000 That's not to say that it's impossible, but you have a much, much more relevant and trackable issue here, which was the role as a financier.

01:20:03.000 How do you always hear Epstein described disgraced financier, financier?

01:20:08.000 The whole thing was the money.

01:20:10.000 The CIA's main job is finding money for its operations.

01:20:15.000 They need to go through fixers, and this is the guy who's tied to the head of the CIA, the head of almost every major figure in Israeli intelligence, the head of every major arms broker in Saudi Arabia, the friends with most of the royal family in the UK, Spain, Egypt.

01:20:34.000 This is the guy who does not know much about finance, but he can arrange the deals because he's got powerful friends behind him who are putting up the money, and he makes his own money through commissions in the 1980s and 90s serving these clients.

01:20:50.000 And he's a fixer.

01:20:52.000 He's a fixer, but he also just, he was a schmoozer.

01:20:55.000 People liked being around him.

01:20:57.000 He held big parties, and he was a hyper-social person.

01:21:02.000 So he found a loophole in society, intelligence community funding, to get really rich. 0.91

01:21:08.000 And he was just kind of like a super disgusting pervert, you know, on the side, or as like, you know, just as an element of that.

01:21:18.000 For example, I bet that when you have these parties, not every single one of the girls was 14 years old, but like he definitely had, and this is well documented, he had like a very, he had a fascination. 0.92

01:21:30.000 He liked them young is what people would say, 13, 14, 15 years old.

01:21:34.000 So then let me ask you a question then.

01:21:37.000 Mike, if you were granted an opportunity or anyone was granted an opportunity to talk to Maxwell, Ghelane Maxwell, what would you be most interested to learn from her that she would actually tell you?

01:21:48.000 Like, what would she know?

01:21:49.000 Because she did two interviews prior, one with CBS and one with like some Scott, you know, some UK thing.

01:21:55.000 And she wants to testify.

01:21:57.000 Could we learn anything from her at all?

01:22:00.000 Mike.

01:22:01.000 Yes, I would ask about the specifics of financings that touched brokering of deals either on behalf of or in partnership with government agencies, including the U.S., Israel, Saudi Arabia, France, the U.K., and the like.

01:22:26.000 It was in 1991, for example, when it's reported that Maxwell linked up with Ghelane.

01:22:33.000 I would take that history from 1991 to call it 2008 or 2019 if you want to go there.

01:22:42.000 And I would go basically step by step through the major financing activities.

01:22:49.000 And I would, you know, because a lot of this is private, by the way.

01:22:53.000 There's a hundred different transactions we know that Epstein was involved in attempting to broker financing for, but there's a lot of these are also going to be non-public.

01:23:01.000 And because they're not, this is not a traded on the NASDAQ.

01:23:05.000 And so I would go through those financial transactions.

01:23:08.000 I would look at U.S. State Department, basically diplomatic and intelligence ties to activity around those deals.

01:23:18.000 And then I would look basically at the CIA files around that transaction or industry.

01:23:27.000 And I would do a search for Jeff for Epstein or the outside financiers.

01:23:32.000 Basically, if you compile that list of all the different outside financial facilitators used for activities that Epstein looked like he was involved with, then, because what you're going to have is you might not necessarily have Epstein's name.

01:23:49.000 What you might have is a facilitator with access to capital in the U.S. Virgin Islands.

01:23:58.000 And that might be what you have from an analyst memo or some CIA cable in 1999.

01:24:06.000 And you think it's Epstein, but you're not really sure it's Epstein when you look at the analyst memo.

01:24:12.000 And then you can ask Elaine that.

01:24:14.000 Hey, a CIA cable that's recently been declassified refers to some retail, some apparel agreement that's going to help basically the retail Sector on the island of Haiti, but actually, what the CIA wants to do is they want to unionize all the garment workers in order to use them for street protests to assist the Aristide government or something like that.

01:24:42.000 And it's going to be arranged through a financier based in the U.S. Virgin Islands associated with these redacted names of funds.

01:24:52.000 Was Jeffrey Epstein that financier?

01:24:55.000 These are the sorts of specific questions you would want.

01:24:58.000 So you need to have that mind mapped.

01:25:00.000 And I don't think that anyone in the Trump admin is even close to that because they're so fixated on the blackmail.

01:25:10.000 They're so fixated on the kind of primal elements of it.

01:25:13.000 They're missing out on the functional elements of why he would belong to intelligence at all.

01:25:19.000 So then what do you think Delaine Maxwell would know about the financial dealings?

01:25:27.000 And I know you got to wrap in two minutes here.

01:25:29.000 So just kind of wrap it up.

01:25:30.000 What other immediate, let's put Delaine Maxwell to the side because you got two minutes. 1.00

01:25:33.000 I'm sorry.

01:25:34.000 Can you just say what other actions do you think could be taken immediately to get to the bottom of this?

01:25:40.000 Because you're focused on something a lot of other people are not.

01:25:42.000 A lot of people want client lists and they want, you know, the sex stuff.

01:25:47.000 You're much more interested in the intelligence and the money.

01:25:50.000 Two minutes, Mike, and then you got a dash.

01:25:52.000 Yeah, the OPR report is so simple.

01:25:54.000 It's right down the hallway, Pam.

01:25:57.000 It's right there, and that is something that you should be able to make public quickly.

01:26:02.000 And that way we will know, because Epstein was asked if he was, if Acosta was reportedly asked per that OPR report, if Epstein was an intelligence asset.

01:26:10.000 And like I keep saying, that is not the question.

01:26:13.000 Asset is not the word.

01:26:15.000 Asset has a formal file.

01:26:17.000 You're going to find this as a facilitator.

01:26:19.000 And I would encourage the folks investigating this to do a deep study on figures like Bruce Rappaport, figures like Mark Rich, figures like Adnan Khashoggi, figures like the head of the BCCI bank and the like.

01:26:33.000 This is what you are looking for in the Epstein intelligence connection.

01:26:38.000 And you need to be able to issue spot that.

01:26:40.000 But first, make the OPR report transcripts of the Costa public, and then everything around the CIA Office of General Counsel, as well as the personal correspondence of Bill Barr and Jeffrey Rosen as the OPR report was being put together about the intelligence ties.

01:26:56.000 Show us you've done that.

01:26:58.000 One month from now, be able to tell us, or two weeks from now, be able to tell us in a press conference that you looked at that OPR report and you're making it public so that we can check this off the box and it'll be a show of good faith, I think, that the public will greatly appreciate.

01:27:13.000 God bless you.

01:27:14.000 Mike Benz, we'll have you on us soon.

01:27:16.000 Thank you so much.

01:27:16.000 Really appreciate it.

01:27:17.000 Thanks, Charlie.

01:27:18.000 Thanks so much for listening.

01:27:19.000 Everybody, email us as alwaysfreedom at charliekirk.com.

01:27:22.000 Thanks so much for listening.

01:27:23.000 God bless.

The Charlie Kirk Show - July 15, 2025

Solving for Epstein: What the Trump Admin Should Do Next

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