The Charlie Kirk Show - Texas vs. The World + the Campaign's Excellent Case in Georgia with Attorney Kelly Shackelford

00:00:00.000 Hey everybody, super important episode.

00:00:02.000 Texas Takes on the World with Kelly Shackelford himself from First Liberty.

00:00:06.000 He's a good friend, a great patriot.

00:00:08.000 He understands the law like nobody else.

00:00:09.000 He's fighting for our country in court.

00:00:12.000 You'll love this conversation.

00:00:13.000 Email us your questions, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:00:16.000 And if you like this conversation, you want more people to hear what we are talking about, go to charliekirk.com/slash support.

00:00:23.000 Texas is putting on the fight.

00:00:27.000 God bless Texas.

00:00:28.000 Buckle up.

00:00:29.000 Here we go.

00:00:29.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:31.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campuses.

00:00:33.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

00:00:36.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:00:40.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:00:41.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:00:42.000 His spirit is love of this country.

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00:00:50.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

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00:01:02.000 Do you know that's just about two weeks till Christmas?

00:01:05.000 It's incredible.

00:01:06.000 I love Christmas season.

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00:01:15.000 It's a crazy time, and it's a good time to be alive despite all the chaos, the uncertainty, and the confusion.

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00:02:48.000 But please hurry, Christmas is two weeks away this Friday.

00:02:53.000 I am joined by a friend of mine, someone who's a true American patriot and a fellow Christian, Kelly Shackelford.

00:02:59.000 Kelly, welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show.

00:03:01.000 It's great to be here.

00:03:02.000 Fun place.

00:03:03.000 It actually is just such God's timing because we kind of teased our audience earlier that we were going to be talking about this Texas deal and all the Supreme Court litigation fights, religious freedom, and you just happened to be coming to the office, which was awesome.

00:03:17.000 God's divine timing.

00:03:19.000 That's what you do for a living at First Liberty.

00:03:22.000 Talk just a second about First Liberty.

00:03:23.000 I'd love people to know if you know about it.

00:03:24.000 First Liberty is the largest legal nonprofit in the country that all we do is religious freedom.

00:03:28.000 So if you're, you know, a fifth grade boy, Giovanni Rubio, and you're told you can bring any book to school you want during free reading time until you bring your Bible.

00:03:39.000 And then you're told you can't do that at school.

00:03:40.000 You can't bring your Bible at school.

00:03:42.000 And you're a poor family in Miami-Dade area.

00:03:45.000 What do you do?

00:03:46.000 Well, we come in, offer free legal, the best lawyers in the country, really, that donate their time from all the major law firms.

00:03:52.000 We put the teams together.

00:03:53.000 We represent Giovanni so that we don't just win for Giovanni, which we did, but we set a precedent that protects all of our freedoms.

00:04:01.000 And so otherwise, we would all lose our constitutional freedoms.

00:04:03.000 So, First Liberty, that's what we do, all religious freedom all over the country. 0.84

00:04:07.000 You had an amazing testimonial of a woman that was blind outside.

00:04:10.000 I was trying to give out the book of John.

00:04:12.000 It's just amazing what you guys have been able to do and be able to win.

00:04:15.000 So, I want to get into this Texas news.

00:04:17.000 I know that you're just aware of just kind of the process, and it's actually less about the particulars, but more just about the bigger picture.

00:04:23.000 You're from Texas, you guys are headquartered in Texas, right?

00:04:27.000 What was the news today that came out of Texas?

00:04:29.000 Well, the news was that an original jurisdiction suit was filed on the election.

00:04:33.000 Now, what that means is normally if you file a lawsuit, people think you can just go to the Supreme Court, right?

00:04:39.000 No, you don't just go to the Supreme Court.

00:04:42.000 The way you get to the Supreme Court is you go through either a state system all the way through the highest court of the state, and then if you feel there's an issue that the Supreme Court can address, you can go from the state Supreme Court to the U.S. Supreme Court, or you can go through the federal courts, the lower court, then the Court of Appeals, and then appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court.

00:05:02.000 And they take about less, they get about 80, you know, 8,000 requests a year, take 80 cases.

00:05:09.000 So, your odds are 100%.

00:05:10.000 Yeah.

00:05:11.000 What happened in Texas is the state in the Constitution, there is a very few things that you can file, and you go straight to the Supreme Court.

00:05:21.000 And that is if one state goes after another state.

00:05:25.000 And so, what happened is Texas sued a number of these swing states, saying, Look, you are diluting our vote and hurting our ability to have a fair election when you don't follow the Constitution in your state.

00:05:40.000 And what the Constitution says is that each state gets to determine the not state, each state legislature gets to determine how you do your election.

00:05:52.000 And so, therefore, whatever the state legislature said is what you have to do.

00:05:57.000 And, of course, in a number of these states, they violated what the state legislature said.

00:06:02.000 I mean, take let's take Pennsylvania, right?

00:06:06.000 Pennsylvania said, and the law says if you're going to do these mail-in ballots, they have to be in by the time of the election.

00:06:14.000 Well, the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania, which is Democrat, said, No, no, you know, we're going to extend that through the end of the week.

00:06:23.000 Well, you can't do that.

00:06:25.000 The legislature determines.

00:06:27.000 So, it was those type of things going on in numerous states that Texas is now challenging these states.

00:06:34.000 And now, other states are beginning to join Texas in this.

00:06:38.000 And so, this is something that would go directly to the Supreme Court.

00:06:41.000 So, is there any way?

00:06:42.000 First of all, that's a great explanation, and it's just hard to make sense of a lot of this stuff, right?

00:06:47.000 Because Article 3 is not exactly the one that we focus on the most.

00:06:51.000 This is your you've argued cases actually in front of the Supreme Court, right?

00:06:54.000 Right, for sure.

00:06:54.000 Everybody has successfully, yeah.

00:06:56.000 So, you personally have been in front of the Supreme Court.

00:06:58.000 Yes, wow, that's awesome.

00:07:00.000 Um, so is it possible that it's Texas v. Georgia v. Wisconsin v. Michigan?

00:07:06.000 Is that correct?

00:07:07.000 Yeah, it's uh, and I think Pennsylvania's in there, aren't they?

00:07:10.000 I don't know if they are or not for sure, but I haven't looked closely at the paper, but I just saw that it was filed.

00:07:14.000 I saw it was from the Texas Attorney General, and I've heard that others are now joining that effort.

00:07:20.000 Jeff Landry from Louisiana, uh, Florida is expected to join.

00:07:24.000 Can the Supreme Court reject this?

00:07:26.000 Well, I mean, they can do what they want.

00:07:26.000 Sure, they can.

00:07:28.000 That's the thing.

00:07:29.000 There's no really, there's not a lot of history to this to know what they're going to do.

00:07:33.000 I mean, this has not really happened before, certainly during the election.

00:07:36.000 I mean, if you look at what the campaign filed on Friday, for instance, in Georgia, that is more typical.

00:07:43.000 It was solid. 1.00

00:07:44.000 Cleta Mitchell is an excellent election law attorney. 0.98

00:07:48.000 But what she filed, just to help people understand, she said in the lawsuit, 64 pages, bunch of affidavits attached.

00:07:54.000 So it's clear.

00:07:55.000 It's not a pie in the sky type thing.

00:07:58.000 It's real clear that they did what she's saying they did.

00:08:01.000 For instance, it says 66,437 people voted who were not of legal age to vote.

00:08:09.000 Okay.

00:08:10.000 That's what Cleta said.

00:08:11.000 Yes, that's in there, and they have the documentation.

00:08:13.000 Okay.

00:08:14.000 She said the state law, so she's going through that, again, the Constitution says the state legislature determines who can vote, how to vote, what all that is done.

00:08:26.000 Under those rules, Georgia violated those, and she said, and here's how many votes it cost.

00:08:32.000 And so she shows 66,000 in some odd, I forget what the number was, people voted who were not eligible to vote age-wise.

00:08:39.000 I think it was 20-something thousand voted who were not eligible to vote because they were in another state.

00:08:46.000 There were a lot.

00:08:47.000 One of the things is on the ballot, say absentee ballots.

00:08:50.000 The law says you get a ballot to vote by mail only if you request one.

00:08:56.000 Yet the Secretary of State just sent them out to a bunch of people.

00:08:59.000 Well, that's not valid.

00:09:00.000 You violated the law.

00:09:01.000 It also says when you write a signature and say, I'd like a ballot because I have a situation where I need a ballot.

00:09:08.000 When the ballot comes in with your vote, it is required under state law that you compare the signatures to make sure that it's the same person.

00:09:18.000 Georgia, the Secretary of State just said no.

00:09:21.000 Roffensberger just said, forget it.

00:09:23.000 They agreed in a lawsuit that Stacey Abrams had filed that they just wouldn't do that.

00:09:28.000 Well, they don't have that authority.

00:09:30.000 They're not the state legislature.

00:09:31.000 And the Constitution gives that authority to the state.

00:09:34.000 So how many votes is that?

00:09:36.000 All the mail-in ballots that they didn't check signatures.

00:09:39.000 So you start going down the list of all those votes that are invalid.

00:09:43.000 Now, that's a really solid lawsuit in Georgia that was filed last Friday.

00:09:49.000 But this is totally different.

00:09:51.000 That would have to go district court, you know, go up through the chain and get to the Supreme Court.

00:09:56.000 It's going to have to go very fast.

00:09:57.000 I don't know how they're going to go that fast, but they clearly have evidence that you can't.

00:10:02.000 These are invalid votes.

00:10:04.000 What happened with Texas filing this is they just kind of skipped right over all this and went right into the Supreme Court.

00:10:09.000 It's kind of brilliant if you want to get in front of the Supreme Court.

00:10:12.000 Now, I guess the Supreme Court could say we're not going to hear it, but then who would?

00:10:16.000 I mean, this is, you know, well, they can say, like they did today, that the Pennsylvania case that went up, they can say, we're not going to take it.

00:10:16.000 Right.

00:10:23.000 So Alito denied the case.

00:10:25.000 Yeah.

00:10:25.000 Now, but that is a different, that's not original jurisdiction going in the court.

00:10:29.000 You know, this is they have discretion to take the ones that are coming up if they want to.

00:10:35.000 This one they filed in Texas means it goes right into the court.

00:10:38.000 So it's not a matter of a normal case.

00:10:41.000 Normally, the way things work is you, let's say you lose at the federal court of appeals.

00:10:47.000 Take our Bladensburg cross, cross that's been up for 100 years.

00:10:51.000 The lower court, two Obama judges say, tear down this cross after 100 years, even though it's a veterans memorial because it's on government land.

00:10:57.000 Well, we go to the Supreme Court.

00:10:59.000 Normally what happens is four of the justices have to agree that they want to take the case.

00:11:06.000 If they do, it's up.

00:11:08.000 And so, but, you know, 8,000, 9,000 requests a year, they only take about 80.

00:11:13.000 So your chance is less than 1% because they're only going to take so many cases.

00:11:18.000 And I'm sure it's a little bit of the same way with election.

00:11:22.000 There are all these cases swimming around, right?

00:11:24.000 They don't want to take all these cases.

00:11:26.000 They don't want to probably take a case unless it's really relevant.

00:11:28.000 But in this case, they kind of weren't given the choice because it was an original jurisdiction case that's going to go directly to.

00:11:35.000 So original jurisdiction, is that from McCullough versus Maryland or from the Constitution?

00:11:39.000 In the Constitution.

00:11:40.000 It settles state differences.

00:11:41.000 Yeah, it specifically gives the Supreme Court very little jurisdiction.

00:11:47.000 And so, for instance, if you go to the Constitution, I mean, I know you would advocate, read your Constitution, but this is because a lot of us just go look at it.

00:11:56.000 It doesn't say how many justices, which is why they want a court pact.

00:11:59.000 It doesn't say circuit court judges either.

00:12:01.000 It doesn't have anything about the lower courts, a creation of Congress.

00:12:04.000 And it gives them jurisdiction and says specifically that, again, if you have states suing each other, it goes in the courts.

00:12:11.000 The Supreme Court.

00:12:12.000 The Supreme Court.

00:12:13.000 And so is there any, can you give us some examples of precedent of states suing each other or how this works?

00:12:19.000 Well, I don't know much about it.

00:12:21.000 It's not something we've seen very much.

00:12:22.000 I would have to go back and look.

00:12:24.000 I've never saw my cases don't go that way.

00:12:26.000 I'm filing under the First Amendment.

00:12:28.000 I'm laughing.

00:12:29.000 And so I haven't seen it.

00:12:30.000 So I've seen it.

00:12:32.000 I haven't experienced it.

00:12:33.000 I haven't been involved in those cases.

00:12:35.000 There are imaginations, usually, right?

00:12:37.000 It would be states maybe arguing over the border.

00:12:41.000 It could be anything where two states are really arguing.

00:12:44.000 In an election, it seems very...

00:12:46.000 Oh, yeah.

00:12:48.000 I don't think we've seen anything like this.

00:12:49.000 And the Supreme Court really wouldn't have a choice but to at least hear part of it before rejecting it.

00:12:54.000 They're going to have to do something.

00:12:55.000 I mean, look, the court can do kind of what it wants to do.

00:12:58.000 I mean, it's there for life.

00:13:01.000 And it can, you know, people can say, well, I can't reject.

00:13:05.000 Well, it could dismiss, you know, on some rationale.

00:13:09.000 But it does skip all these normal steps when you're kind of out of time.

00:13:14.000 Not really out of time.

00:13:15.000 I mean, really, when you look at the real timing, you're really talking about January 6th, you know, when it goes to Congress and they have to certify the election.

00:13:24.000 Yeah.

00:13:25.000 And so there is time, but everybody's kind of looking at December 14th where the electoral votes are cast.

00:13:30.000 But that could be moved.

00:13:31.000 It could.

00:13:32.000 It could be.

00:13:33.000 And they could overturn that.

00:13:35.000 Just because the electoral votes are cast, it still would go to the House and the Senate.

00:13:40.000 But I don't think any of that's going to happen unless something is shown in court that the American people get to see and then realize, okay, this is a problem.

00:13:51.000 I wish more people could see, for instance, the filing that was done in Georgia on Friday.

00:13:56.000 Can you talk even more about that?

00:13:57.000 So it's by Cleta Mitchell, Trump campaign, because there's just been so much noise.

00:14:00.000 You actually argue cases, not these types of cases, but you have to go up against judges, tough judges, I'm sure.

00:14:07.000 Ninth Circuit, and you got to have all your evidence ready to go and also withstand cross-examination and all of that.

00:14:15.000 So what really struck you about the Georgia case that was filed by our friend Cleta and some of the other ones?

00:14:22.000 It wasn't something that was, you know, what you worry about in these cases, I mean, because it's so hard, and for good reason, overturning an election is something we don't want courts doing.

00:14:33.000 We'd rather the people make those decisions.

00:14:35.000 But they've got to be valid elections, okay?

00:14:37.000 And so a lot of these things being filed are kind of, we're a little wild and they might require some proof.

00:14:44.000 Like, you know, well, somebody did this and I think they brought in fraudulent ballots.

00:14:49.000 Well, you know, people are going to argue, did they really do that?

00:14:52.000 What was in those?

00:14:53.000 You know, the things that Cleta did in the lawsuit are things that were really undeniable.

00:14:59.000 I mean, you have records of how old people are.

00:15:01.000 It says so-and-so voted, and you have a record of how old they were, and they weren't eligible to vote.

00:15:07.000 You know what the law says about comparing the signatures, and they know exactly how many of those wasn't done.

00:15:13.000 And so literally, what you should do is throw all those votes out.

00:15:17.000 And what you would probably have to do in Georgia is have another election.

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00:16:36.000 So Cleta Mitchell, who's phenomenal, and I've known her for years, they filed in what court in Georgia?

00:16:42.000 They filed in a Georgia state court and said, you know, the state law was violated.

00:16:48.000 It's also violated the United States Constitution.

00:16:51.000 And I'm 90% sure that that's where she filed because I think I remember looking at that when she filed it.

00:16:57.000 I was looking more at what's in there, which the arguments that are made would work in federal court too, because they're saying you violated the federal constitution.

00:17:05.000 But she went in and said, look, the federal constitution says that the state legislature determines the manner and the modes of the elections.

00:17:13.000 Here's what those say.

00:17:14.000 Here's how those were violated.

00:17:16.000 And in each case, they put the number of votes that were illegal.

00:17:20.000 And it's a huge number.

00:17:21.000 And of course, Georgia was, what, 20,000 or something, I think?

00:17:24.000 It's down to what, what is it now, 12?

00:17:26.000 Is that right?

00:17:27.000 No, Georgia's down.

00:17:29.000 Arizona's 12.

00:17:30.000 Yeah, Georgia might be right around there.

00:17:32.000 I think it's 27,000.

00:17:33.000 That's right.

00:17:33.000 And so they're way beyond that.

00:17:35.000 And so it's a solid, it's just hard to argue with that.

00:17:39.000 And I think we've got to get back to, I mean, Georgia is important not only because of the presidential election, but they're having these Senate elections.

00:17:46.000 And if they violate all these things again, I mean, so getting this straight now is important for a number of reasons.

00:17:46.000 Right.

00:17:52.000 So I really appreciate what Cleta Mitchell and she did that on behalf of the campaign.

00:17:59.000 And I think it was a smart move, and I think it was an important move because the way our Constitution works is you can't go into court and have some local judge overturn the state legislature.

00:18:11.000 You can't have the Secretary of State decide they're going to overturn the state legislature.

00:18:15.000 That's not what the Constitution says.

00:18:18.000 It gives that authority.

00:18:19.000 It doesn't say the state shall.

00:18:21.000 It says the state legislature.

00:18:24.000 The founders were very specific in the power.

00:18:27.000 And Bush versus Gore affirmed that back when we had that case go to the Supreme Court.

00:18:32.000 They said it's the state legislature that makes the decision.

00:18:35.000 You mentioned that Stacey Abrams settled with Raffensperger in defiance to the state law.

00:18:40.000 Can you help unpack that?

00:18:42.000 She sued a lawsuit, filed a lawsuit, and he, as the Secretary of State, settled the lawsuit by agreeing to do certain things, including not doing signature checks, which is fairly outrageous because you really open yourself open to fraud.

00:18:59.000 That's the reason, and it's not just Georgia.

00:19:02.000 Anywhere you go that has an absentee ballot, they have the signature verification.

00:19:06.000 Because what you don't want is some sort of ballot harvesting or whatever where somebody's like sending out a lot of requests for votes, and then you send out these ballots and then they send them in and fill them out with whoever they want.

00:19:21.000 You want the requests to be made.

00:19:23.000 You don't just send them at random so that there's thousands of them being grabbed by people in trash cans.

00:19:29.000 You want to send them to the people who ask for them, and then you want those people to do their vote and send it back in.

00:19:35.000 You can check both signatures to make sure it's the same person.

00:19:38.000 So if I were to venture a guess, Stacey Abrams, let me tell you what we already know, and then I'm going to just fill in the piece here. 1.00

00:19:45.000 Stacey Abrams raised a bunch of money, $30, $40 million from out of state, hired the best law firms, came in and engaged in lawfare.

00:19:54.000 But I would imagine that she probably had a bunch of people that said, my vote didn't count, even though my signature was off a little bit.

00:20:01.000 Is that right?

00:20:01.000 Yeah, well, it was about all kinds of things in the election.

00:20:05.000 I mean, she was complaining.

00:20:06.000 Yeah, because she said she won the election for governor and that Kemp didn't win.

00:20:12.000 And voters were disenfranchised.

00:20:15.000 And so they throw everything in there and they come after them.

00:20:17.000 Civil Rights Act, they come with equal protection.

00:20:20.000 But the big point in all this is it might sound nice.

00:20:23.000 Okay, you settle the lawsuit, the Secretary of State agrees to such and such.

00:20:27.000 You can't do that.

00:20:28.000 The Constitution doesn't give that authority to a local judge.

00:20:31.000 I don't care if it's a federal judge.

00:20:33.000 I don't care if it's a state court judge.

00:20:36.000 I don't care if it's Secretary of State.

00:20:38.000 The Constitution says that the manner and modes of the election is determined by the state legislature.

00:20:44.000 So the state legislature in Georgia said you have to do the signature verification, and it wasn't followed.

00:20:53.000 And so Rothensberger just went rogue then in this settlement with Stacey Abrams, then.

00:20:58.000 Yeah.

00:20:58.000 He just created law.

00:21:00.000 And a lot of people think they can do that because they think, well, the federal judge told me, or, you know, it's under a court order.

00:21:00.000 Yeah.

00:21:06.000 You know, what am I supposed to do?

00:21:08.000 And so they're going, they're entering this agreement with the court and they feel like, okay, I've done the best I can do, but they're not thinking about who really has authority over these issues for future elections.

00:21:20.000 The other thing that, by the way, is in there, I mean, there's so many.

00:21:24.000 They put a box where if you ask for a ballot and you could check and say, send me a ballot and all the future ones without me asking.

00:21:35.000 Are you kidding me?

00:21:36.000 Yeah, without me asking because since you wanted one in this one.

00:21:39.000 So guess what?

00:21:40.000 Everybody is now getting that for these Senate races who asked.

00:21:43.000 By the way, the law says you can't ask for and get a ballot within 180 days.

00:21:51.000 Well, they violated that.

00:21:52.000 So this is the problem.

00:21:54.000 They're doing things that is not what the state legislature has done.

00:21:58.000 So Rothensperger was just outgunned legally, basically, and he came to some civil settlement, I guess.

00:22:05.000 And he just laid down his arms.

00:22:07.000 Probably because I would only imagine maybe there was something to something he did wrong.

00:22:12.000 Yeah, who knows?

00:22:13.000 I don't know.

00:22:14.000 I'm just because he should have just fought this thing through, I guess, right?

00:22:17.000 Well, this happens a lot.

00:22:19.000 There were cases that have been on the books for years that would not allow local officials to clean up voting rolls.

00:22:25.000 So a lot of the voting rolls you'll go to fit 10, 15% of the names are invalid.

00:22:31.000 There are people who are dead, they've moved, whatever.

00:22:34.000 Well, you know, why would you want to not clean up the voting rolls?

00:22:38.000 But these are the kind of lawsuits.

00:22:39.000 And then what happens is people then vote fraudulently in those.

00:22:44.000 And of course, with his last election, all those people got sent ballots in a number of these states that decided to send out the ballots.

00:22:50.000 So it's a real problem.

00:22:52.000 Look, if we, not only do our elections need to be fair and accurate and valid and not fraudulent, but people need to understand and be able to trust that that's true.

00:23:03.000 Yes.

00:23:03.000 If you don't have both those things, you don't have a democratic republic because people don't look at their leaders as legitimate and you've got real problems.

00:23:13.000 And so this is something that is, again, sometimes everybody should be for free speech, even when it's speech you don't like, right?

00:23:20.000 Everybody should be for this.

00:23:22.000 Even if you're on the other side of the election, you should go, we're going to lose our country if we don't get a control of this.

00:23:29.000 And it's sad to see people so shallow and really not have enough intelligence to understand that this will not be good for them either when you have some sort of banana republic that you end up creating in the United States of America.

00:23:44.000 So I want to ask one more piece on this, and then I want to get into the religious liberty fight that you guys are doing, especially on the lockdowns, all of it.

00:23:50.000 You guys have been really amazing on it, which is, can you walk us through what a judge will be looking for?

00:23:56.000 So you have to, you've argued in front of the U.S. Supreme Court, as you just said, really impressive.

00:24:00.000 Your organization has won cases at the highest level.

00:24:04.000 I think some of our listeners and our viewers, they email us by the tens of thousands.

00:24:09.000 And you guys can do that right now, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:24:12.000 And I'll read some of these questions off for you.

00:24:14.000 They say, how could a judge not overturn this?

00:24:17.000 They see it so clearly.

00:24:17.000 How?

00:24:19.000 And I share that frustration.

00:24:20.000 Can you add some kind of context to that, Kelly?

00:24:24.000 Yeah, let me give you, I'll give you the human side and the legal side.

00:24:28.000 The human side is understand that judges are human beings.

00:24:31.000 So if you're a judge and you have one of these cases come and they're asking you to overturn an election, you don't want to do that.

00:24:40.000 Just you'd rather somebody else decide the election.

00:24:43.000 You're not starting from an impartial position.

00:24:45.000 No, you're, you're like, yeah, and so that's super helpful.

00:24:48.000 And then if you're, if almost all judges are elected or they're appointed by somebody who's elected, so they're, they're politically sensitive.

00:24:56.000 If they just go along and kind of do their job and everything, they're fine.

00:25:01.000 But if they all of a sudden hit a controversial case and they take a decision, half of the people are furious at them.

00:25:07.000 Their ability to maybe be elevated or maybe run for election to a higher office are hurt.

00:25:13.000 So the temptation for judge, and I'm saying good judges don't care about this.

00:25:17.000 Good judges just do what's right and whatever the consequences are, so be it.

00:25:21.000 And those are the kinds of people we've been getting onto the federal bench under the Trump administration.

00:25:26.000 People who are originalists, they don't care about the politics, you know.

00:25:30.000 But if you, so one of the big temptations, if you're a judge, is to throw a case out on what's called standing, meaning if you, you normally can't bring a lawsuit unless you were injured.

00:25:42.000 And so I can't say, hey, Charlie was injured.

00:25:44.000 I'm bringing a lawsuit on behalf of Charlie because this was really wrong.

00:25:47.000 What happened to Charlie?

00:25:48.000 Well, I don't have that standing.

00:25:50.000 Only you would have that standing.

00:25:51.000 And so what in a lot of these cases, they'll say somebody will bring a lawsuit over the election.

00:25:55.000 They say, well, you don't really have standing.

00:25:57.000 If you were the party, you could bring a lawsuit.

00:26:00.000 And so if you throw it out on standing, you're not getting into the substantive issue where you anger people.

00:26:06.000 And so a lot of process.

00:26:09.000 And if you'll watch most of these lawsuits that have been filed on election, that's how they're being thrown out.

00:26:14.000 You know, you don't have, so that's part one.

00:26:16.000 Part two is, you know, just because somebody sees something that says, well, this happened, or maybe even a witness says, hey, I saw them fraudulently vote.

00:26:26.000 Yes.

00:26:26.000 That's not proving anything.

00:26:28.000 That's evidence.

00:26:29.000 But it's very, what you find is, and this is in scripture, right?

00:26:33.000 It's a powerful case until the other side gets up and responds.

00:26:37.000 So maybe they have more information that you don't have.

00:26:41.000 And maybe, so you've got to get in court and prove these things before you can know they're true.

00:26:46.000 And that's why I thought that Georgia was so powerful because these are not things.

00:26:50.000 Charlie saw it this way, but oh, no, no, you didn't see what we saw.

00:26:54.000 Or, oh, no, no, no, those weren't ballots we were pulling out of the suit cases.

00:26:58.000 Those were something else.

00:27:00.000 If you're the state, then they're going to be like, oh, no, it wasn't 66,000 young people.

00:27:04.000 It was, let's go to the list.

00:27:06.000 Oh, it was 35,000.

00:27:07.000 Right.

00:27:08.000 And it's the names are there.

00:27:08.000 Basically.

00:27:11.000 You can vote piece by piece then.

00:27:12.000 You can look at every one of them.

00:27:13.000 You can see exactly how old they are.

00:27:15.000 So it's stuff you can't really dispute.

00:27:16.000 So that's why that kind of lawsuit is really difficult to disagree with.

00:27:21.000 Some of the other things like were the voting machines, you know, doing, that's a lot to prove, you know?

00:27:28.000 And these cases are so hard because you have very little time.

00:27:32.000 I mean, you know, this thing happens.

00:27:34.000 Normally, with lawsuits, you work on your lawsuit for a year, two years, getting it in shape, getting the witnesses.

00:27:41.000 Well, the problem is you just don't have any of that time here to get the evidence, to do the discovery, to do what you normally do.

00:27:46.000 So it's very difficult in these election contests.

00:27:48.000 Because you have to be right.

00:27:50.000 And so you're up against the constitutional kind of guardrails there.

00:27:54.000 So that's super helpful to kind of help contextualize all that.

00:27:58.000 So the most insightful thing you said, and I'm going to repeat it, which is that these judges actually don't want to throw out these elections.

00:28:05.000 That there's actually a higher threshold than if this was just a kind of a property rights issue of someone, like an irrigation issue that someone's suing over, right?

00:28:05.000 No.

00:28:13.000 And some of that we respect because we want the people to decide the election.

00:28:18.000 So this is an really unusual.

00:28:20.000 I'm not saying it's a bad thing.

00:28:21.000 I just think that we have to.

00:28:22.000 And it's human nature.

00:28:24.000 People need to put themselves in that seat and try to step back from who they're rooting for and ask if it was the other side and say, would you want to be the one to decide the election versus the people somehow?

00:28:36.000 And again, I mean, good judges are going to do their job, even if everybody hates them.

00:28:41.000 We need more justices like Justice Thomas, who really doesn't care.

00:28:45.000 He's the best.

00:28:46.000 You know, and we're getting more. 0.95

00:28:48.000 I think Amy Coney Barrett is going to be that type of justice.

00:28:51.000 I think there are a lot of these lower court judges we've gotten in, federal court of appeals and district court, who are awesome.

00:28:58.000 And they're going to be the future Supreme Court justices.

00:29:00.000 But, you know, just realize human nature and what you're dealing with in a lot of these state courts and other places where the whole universe is landing in their court.

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00:30:06.000 We're both Christians.

00:30:07.000 You're doing the best work out there for the fight for religious freedom.

00:30:10.000 You mentioned there's a case that could decide everything.

00:30:13.000 Well, the case we have right now is, of course, I'll go back.

00:30:13.000 What is it?

00:30:18.000 You know, we filed the first case in the country during the pandemic on the First Amendment and religious freedom.

00:30:24.000 We knew it was going to be hard to win.

00:30:26.000 So we waited for the right case.

00:30:27.000 We set up the right case and we filed it.

00:30:29.000 It was a great case.

00:30:30.000 It was on Easter weekend.

00:30:32.000 A church wanting to do a drive-in service. 0.93

00:30:34.000 Mississippi, if I remember right.

00:30:35.000 No, it was Louisville.

00:30:36.000 Oh, I'm sorry.

00:30:36.000 Mississippi was very similar.

00:30:38.000 We had that one too with the African-American church.

00:30:40.000 Yeah, I remember that one.

00:30:41.000 But the big one that hit in federal court where there was a full hearing and TRO and a federal injunction, we call it the shot heard around the world, kind of like the American Revolution, because everybody was wondering, did we lose the Constitution?

00:30:53.000 And we're watching people being arrested for throwing a baseball in the park with their kids and the guy coming off the beach, being handcuffed, and all this stuff.

00:31:00.000 And it was telling them they couldn't have a drive-in service.

00:31:04.000 And in fact, they were going to not only criminally prosecute them, but the governor said they were going to go, they have police go around to all the churches that weekend and write down the license plates of every car in the church parking lot.

00:31:15.000 And they would be visited at their home and then quarantined for 14 days.

00:31:19.000 And we're like, okay, this is the case.

00:31:20.000 We're in China.

00:31:22.000 And it's Louisville.

00:31:23.000 Yes.

00:31:24.000 And we got a great judge.

00:31:27.000 And in fact, a very young federal judge.

00:31:30.000 And Judge Justin Walker just issued a powerful decision that said, this is outrageous. 0.63

00:31:36.000 The Constitution is fully in place during the pandemic and ruled in favor of the church.

00:31:41.000 They had their Easter service.

00:31:43.000 So we really started in a lot of these cases.

00:31:45.000 But the problem was the emergency motions that were going up from other states.

00:31:50.000 We're nullifying work.

00:31:52.000 Yeah, and they got up to, they didn't necessarily always file smart appeals to the Supreme Court.

00:31:58.000 And at the time, you had Justice Roberts, who would normally be the swing vote for the Las Vegas going the wrong way.

00:32:07.000 And, well, now you had the replacement with Amy Coney Barrett.

00:32:10.000 And two weeks ago, you had the Brooklyn case out of New York, which began to change everything, which said, no, no, no, no.

00:32:15.000 And this is, that's an ACB Trump win.

00:32:17.000 I mean, that is huge.

00:32:18.000 It's huge.

00:32:19.000 And so for churches now, the message has been sent, this discrimination against churches has got to stop.

00:32:25.000 I mean, that was a, and Alito gave that message about a week before in the federal society speech that he gave.

00:32:30.000 People criticize him, but he was doing exactly what he had to do.

00:32:34.000 His job is to speak for the Constitution.

00:32:36.000 I mean, as a justice, if they won't stand for the Constitution, all of us lose our freedoms.

00:32:41.000 So he did that.

00:32:42.000 Well, our case that happened soon thereafter is the Danville Christian School case.

00:32:46.000 And I love this case for a lot of reasons.

00:32:48.000 But number one, this is a Christian school in Kentucky.

00:32:51.000 The governor of Kentucky issued an order that shut down the schools, including all the Christian schools.

00:33:00.000 Meanwhile, universities are open.

00:33:03.000 3,000 people at the Kentucky basketball game, fine.

00:33:07.000 Strip clubs, open.

00:33:09.000 Theaters, open.

00:33:12.000 The CDC itself said the safest place you can be is in a school because kids don't transmit it as much.

00:33:18.000 You know, when you're talking about K through 12.

00:33:22.000 Well, so there's no science for this.

00:33:24.000 It's total discrimination.

00:33:26.000 So not only did we file our lawsuit on behalf of Christians, and plus this is a fundamental right, the right of parents to choose Christian education, to teach and inculcate the religious teaching for those Christian schools and churches and all that.

00:33:39.000 I mean, this is fundamental First Amendment rights.

00:33:42.000 Not only did we file it, but the Attorney General of Kentucky, Daniel Cameron, he said, I'm joining you.

00:33:51.000 So the Attorney General sued his own governor with us.

00:33:55.000 So we are against Brashear saying this is unconstitutional.

00:33:58.000 We wanted an injunction at the district court.

00:34:01.000 They said this is outrageous.

00:34:03.000 The Court of Appeals, we got a bad panel.

00:34:05.000 And so they said, we're going to stay this injunction that allows the schools to open.

00:34:10.000 So we, because the loss of First Amendment freedoms for even a moment of time is irreparable.

00:34:16.000 We went on an emergency motion, which goes to Justice Kavanaugh.

00:34:20.000 He is responsible for that circuit.

00:34:22.000 Can I ask a question?

00:34:22.000 What does emergency motion mean?

00:34:24.000 Can anyone do that?

00:34:25.000 Is it risky?

00:34:26.000 It's very risky because courts like a normal case that comes up through the process, gets to them, and let's say they take it.

00:34:34.000 There's months for people to file briefs.

00:34:36.000 You file a 50-page brief.

00:34:38.000 The other side files a 30-page response.

00:34:40.000 You file a 20-page response to their response.

00:34:43.000 Other amicus, other outside groups file briefs, and they get to see all the thinking, all the arguments.

00:34:49.000 Then they have an oral argument and they test everything and then they write an opinion.

00:34:53.000 They love that.

00:34:54.000 What they don't like is this is an emergency motion.

00:34:57.000 They grant them one out of a thousand times.

00:34:59.000 Are you serious?

00:35:00.000 So people are just sending them all the time.

00:35:01.000 Well, not all the time, but they know that if it's an emergency, they do it.

00:35:06.000 And most of the time they lose.

00:35:07.000 And that's what all these church cases you're seeing.

00:35:09.000 There's been no case that like even them Brooklyn, that's not a case.

00:35:12.000 That was an emergency motion.

00:35:14.000 Because they divide the country.

00:35:15.000 Is that right?

00:35:16.000 No, yeah, but that's the same thing.

00:35:17.000 The justice is in a different area.

00:35:19.000 But the emergency is because it hasn't, the case is not over and it's not going to the Court of Appeals and then the Supreme Court and they're setting argument time.

00:35:27.000 What happens is these orders come and they can go, but they're in place right now, and you're losing your, you can't wait a year.

00:35:34.000 No, of course.

00:35:35.000 So then Kavanaugh oversees the Kentucky area.

00:35:37.000 That's right.

00:35:38.000 That circuit, the Sixth Circuit, goes to Kavanaugh.

00:35:41.000 But what Kavanaugh has to do is look at it.

00:35:44.000 And what he did in this case is he said he called for a response from the governor, which means he's seriously looking at this.

00:35:50.000 And that response came in on Friday.

00:35:51.000 And then our reply came in.

00:35:53.000 Mitch McConnell and 38 senators filed on our side saying this is outrageous.

00:35:59.000 I think the American Metal Association just jumped in on the other side.

00:36:04.000 But so he could rule any day now.

00:36:06.000 So he's the singular judge.

00:36:08.000 He is.

00:36:08.000 But to rule in our favor, he has to say, in his opinion, that a majority of the court would rule with me on the merits of this case.

00:36:19.000 How can he say that?

00:36:20.000 He goes and talks to the other judges.

00:36:22.000 He takes a vote.

00:36:23.000 He goes off.

00:36:24.000 He goes and he talks to each of them, and they've looked at the briefing or he informs them and they look at it.

00:36:31.000 And so every time you see one of these emergency motions, like the Brooklyn decision.

00:36:36.000 She's going and doing a roll call.

00:36:38.000 That's right. 0.94

00:36:40.000 It has to be a majority.

00:36:41.000 So what they're saying is, we know we don't have enough time to go into depth on this because we don't have the normal all the briefing and all the argument and all this.

00:36:49.000 But we're saying that from what we can see now, there would be a majority that would rule with you on the merits.

00:36:55.000 This is important because not only because this is wrong and what's going on in Kentucky shutting down all these schools is, I mean, I want you to think about this.

00:37:03.000 What they're saying is, let's say you're a parent, you have a 12-year-old boy.

00:37:07.000 They can go to the movie theater and sit in the movie.

00:37:10.000 They can go to the Kentucky basketball game with 3,000 people.

00:37:13.000 They can go over to the gambling parlor.

00:37:16.000 They can go to the horse track.

00:37:19.000 But they can't go to the Danville Christian School and sit in a classroom with 12 kids who are socially distanced.

00:37:26.000 It's nuts.

00:37:27.000 And plus, that's the safest place they can be.

00:37:29.000 So it makes no sense.

00:37:31.000 But if a decision comes down, this will mean something for every private school and Christian school.

00:37:38.000 It could be negative.

00:37:39.000 It could be.

00:37:40.000 It could be that they just, he says, we're not going to take, we're not going to rule this way.

00:37:44.000 It's an emergency motion.

00:37:45.000 Come to us later.

00:37:46.000 But if we do get a ruling, it'll be just like what happened with the churches in that it'll be a signal all across the country to a lot of these governors who are out of control.

00:37:55.000 This is different than the Calvary Chapel Las Vegas one.

00:37:57.000 That's right.

00:37:58.000 That was not an emergency, right?

00:37:59.000 That was the full vote.

00:38:00.000 It was.

00:38:01.000 No, it was an emergency motion.

00:38:04.000 But what they did is they quickly said, in light, we're sending this back down.

00:38:09.000 Got it.

00:38:09.000 We're telling you to vacate the decision below, which was upholding the governor's order, shutting down the churches, because you need to, because you didn't have the opportunity to look at what we did in the New York, the Brooklyn case.

00:38:23.000 But Vegas was months ago.

00:38:24.000 That was when Roberts went 5-4.

00:38:26.000 That's right.

00:38:27.000 And that was an emergency motion.

00:38:29.000 It was.

00:38:30.000 Emergency motion oversees the ninth, right?

00:38:32.000 That's the, I don't know what circuit Vegas is.

00:38:34.000 It could be.

00:38:35.000 Eighth or ninth, probably.

00:38:36.000 But whatever it is, it is now going up.

00:38:39.000 The people doing that case are trying to get it to the Supreme Court in the regular way.

00:38:43.000 Got it.

00:38:43.000 But it's not there yet.

00:38:44.000 So these emergency motions are overseen by one person, but not really.

00:38:47.000 They do go and they get the now.

00:38:49.000 Is this constitutional or did they create this system themselves?

00:38:54.000 Everything below the Supreme Court is really made up by Congress anyway, right?

00:38:57.000 I mean, the lower courts aren't in the Constitution.

00:38:59.000 Sure.

00:38:59.000 But this whole process of Kavanaugh overseeing Kentucky.

00:39:02.000 Well, you put somebody, I mean, it's kind of typical because, like, if you're a district court judge, you might come, somebody might come in with an emergency motion, what's called a temporary restraining order.

00:39:11.000 Because there's some times if you don't stop something, it's over.

00:39:15.000 I mean, for instance, let's say, you know, you're about to go in and speak somewhere and the state of California decides we hate Charlie Kirk.

00:39:23.000 We're not going to allow him to speak in our state.

00:39:25.000 Well, if you can't speak tomorrow, you don't ever get that day back.

00:39:31.000 So you would have a right to get an injunction to allow you to speak.

00:39:36.000 So things that you can't undo, there are a process for an emergency.

00:39:40.000 Now, if it's just money, somebody can sue you later and get all the money back.

00:39:44.000 Right.

00:39:44.000 So that wouldn't qualify as an emergency.

00:39:45.000 That's right.

00:39:46.000 And that's what most cases are about, money.

00:39:47.000 But the school is because you're losing school days, you're losing.

00:39:50.000 They can never send them back to the school.

00:39:52.000 And plus, I mean, this is not in the argument.

00:39:54.000 You've seen all this.

00:39:55.000 Kids are committing suicide left and right.

00:39:57.000 There's a kid today in Maine that wrote in his suicide note is because of the lockdowns.

00:40:01.000 And we're talking about 10-year-olds and less.

00:40:04.000 And so we've got to get on top of this.

00:40:08.000 And so I'm really hopeful.

00:40:10.000 In fact, I'd encourage people to pray for Justice Kavanaugh and for the court because this will affect all these schools.

00:40:16.000 And I mean, I am not one who ever quotes Anthony Fauci, right?

00:40:21.000 But Anthony Fauci said last week, close the bars, open the schools.

00:40:26.000 Even he says open the schools.

00:40:28.000 So the idea that they're traumatizing and harming these kids around the country, when especially we went with the religious schools because that's the most fundamental right, the right to inculcate religion in your children, to choose that school for your children.

00:40:41.000 And to have the government come in and say, we're shutting you down, we're like, you better have some serious evidence to do this.

00:40:48.000 And they don't.

00:40:48.000 Not only do they not have evidence, what they're doing is irrational.

00:40:52.000 And so it's not just Kavanaugh, it's going to be the whole court.

00:40:55.000 I think, I hope they'll rule correctly.

00:40:57.000 I do too.

00:40:58.000 I do too.

00:40:58.000 It's a big one, but it'll probably come down in the next day or two.

00:41:02.000 Wow.

00:41:02.000 Well, we'll be praying for that.

00:41:04.000 And thank you for helping unpack all this Supreme Court stuff.

00:41:08.000 It's been super helpful.

00:41:09.000 And so the website again, firstliberty.org.

00:41:12.000 They can look at all the cases.

00:41:14.000 We even have a deal down at the bottom on judicial nominees so they can go through and look at all the Trump, all the appointments.

00:41:19.000 I bet very few people know three judges were confirmed last week.

00:41:23.000 We expect to get another five this week onto the court for life.

00:41:25.000 It's a big deal.

00:41:26.000 That is the changing of the future, getting these good judges on the court so that we do have good decisions for your generation and following.

00:41:34.000 Amen.

00:41:34.000 Any closing thoughts?

00:41:35.000 I appreciate you, and I really appreciate Turning Point.

00:41:39.000 My wife has a real heart for the next generation, and you're giving us encouragement.

00:41:46.000 And I'm just grateful for all the people out there, including our son, who's at college and is a member of his Turning Point chat.

00:41:52.000 So thank you for all you're doing.

00:41:54.000 And just call, everybody can always call us.

00:41:56.000 We're the free lawyers when it's religious freedom, and we don't like to lose, so we don't lose very well.

00:42:01.000 We're going to call you to explain all this stuff because it's a lot of different processes that we don't understand.

00:42:05.000 Kelly, thanks so much.

00:42:06.000 Thank you.

00:42:09.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:42:11.000 If you guys want to get involved with Turning Point USA, go to tpusa.com.

00:42:15.000 Email us your questions, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:42:18.000 And if you want to support us, it's charliekirk.com slash support.

00:42:22.000 Thank you guys so much for listening.

00:42:24.000 God bless.

00:42:25.000 Speak to you soon.

The Charlie Kirk Show - December 09, 2020

Texas vs. The World + the Campaign's Excellent Case in Georgia with Attorney Kelly Shackelford

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