00:00:52.000He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.
00:00:58.000We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
00:01:47.000I wrote the book for the same reason you've done what you've done for the last 10 years, a turning point.
00:01:52.000We are at a moment in this country where we are in completely unchartered territory.
00:01:58.000Our schools across the board, government schools, not just public, which should be known as government schools, but also elite schools, private schools, most Christian schools are teaching students to be self-loathing activists who know nothing about God and who believe America is a evil place, stolen land, and only built on the backs of slaves.
00:02:24.000And as a result, it is an experiment that's never been tried, keeping a country while educating its citizens to hate the very country they live in and not believe that it represents anything good.
00:02:38.000If you look at the scope of the problem right now, it's utterly demoralizing.
00:02:42.000If you really, really take a look, because COVID-19, as you know, gave us a glimpse inside the classroom.
00:02:48.000We call it inside the book the COVID-1619 moment.
00:02:52.000It was the moment parents finally got a look and what they saw was not 1776.
00:02:58.000They saw 1619 and they saw gender pronouns and they saw critical race theory dressed up as diversity, equity, inclusion.
00:03:06.000And they were mortified because the assumption, their biases were toward the belief that the public schools, they're just fine.
00:03:14.000Maybe there's some bias in there, but they're just fine.
00:03:30.000And we actually started this project long before, not long before, but before COVID-19 happened and this whole educational revelation occurred.
00:03:39.000And I partnered with David Goodwin, who is the head of the Association of Classical Christian Schools.
00:03:44.000And in that partnership, he had already done a great deal of research about what the early progressives had done to intentionally target the minds of our youngest.
00:03:54.000This was not just at first an Ivy League academic thing.
00:03:58.000They knew the idea of school, if they could take control of it, would eventually translate into political and social control.
00:04:08.000One of the first things they studied was how in the world a constitutional amendment prohibiting alcohol was passed in the United States in 1919.
00:04:17.000And Francis Willard, an avowed socialist suffragette in the 1870s, devised a curriculum that they put into the third grade classroom in an ad hoc sense across America.
00:04:29.000And those third graders became voters.
00:04:32.000And a generation later, not only was it passed into law, but a constitutional amendment was passed to prohibit alcohol.
00:04:38.000The progressives in the early 20th century wrote a great deal about that accomplishment.
00:04:43.000John Dewey and others went to work crafting a school system guised under the need for a future economy and vocational training.
00:04:50.000But underneath it all was societal change.
00:04:53.000And as you know, all these guys and gals, they were socialists.
00:05:08.000And this is not just Connie Runnin Mill book.
00:05:10.000This is a thoughtful book that has really dived deep in what we can actually do to fix American education, Battle for the American Mind, Uprooting a Century of Miseducation.
00:05:19.000So, Pete, I want to ask you about one of the things you mentioned, which is the unprecedented approach that the modern left is taking.
00:05:28.000It's very risky, and I think it actually presents great opportunity for those of us that love the country, which is they think they can get a citizenry to give them power while they say they hate the country they want to get power from.
00:05:40.000This is something that the Bolsheviks didn't even try to do, where, I mean, for example, and Saul Linsky warned about this for leftists.
00:05:47.000He said, hey, guys, if you're going to try to take over a country, burn the flag after you control everything.
00:05:53.000Don't try to do that while you're trying to get power.
00:05:56.000Meaning the symbols matter and the pledge matters and the national anthem matters and the statues matter.
00:06:02.000And if you try to go to war against those things, you might make it harder for you to be able to take over all of the mechanisms of power.
00:06:10.000The current left believes the opposite.
00:06:13.000They think they're going to be able to get more powerful by convincing people to hate themselves and hate their nation and hate their home.
00:06:20.000I think that presents an opportunity for those of us to actually say, no, we love this place, because I think deep down in our spirit is a yearning to actually be thankful for where you're from.
00:06:31.000However, we've been living off the fumes of that appreciation truly instilled on the hearts and souls of young people through proper education.
00:06:40.000I mean, the residue that brought about Make America Great Again, this guttural scream that like all it really was is America is good and we should love her and appreciate her was basically built on the backs of an educational system that no longer exists.
00:06:57.000I think politically that continues to present opportunities.
00:07:00.000You're going to see it in 22 and I think you'll see it in 24, no doubt.
00:07:04.000But the reason they've moved to the burning of those symbols or the rejection of those symbols, by the way, they put many of those symbols in place in the first place as placeholders.
00:07:13.000And we can get into the history, including the Pledge of Allegiance, which originally did not say under God and was written by a socialist to create allegiance to the state above allegiance to God.
00:07:25.000We revere the pledge and we should because we reveal the founding ideals of this country.
00:07:29.000They wanted it to create, to cast the eyes to the flag in front of the classroom instead of the cross, which had traditionally been at the front of the American classroom.
00:07:38.000So they use symbols until they don't need them anymore and then they disregard them.
00:07:43.000Politically, Democrats still get elected by feigning or shallowly showing appreciation for what this country represents because they're old school Democrats.
00:07:54.000Culturally, they've moved beyond that and certainly in the classroom.
00:07:59.000I mean, when you dig into how in bed the just take the modern manifestation, the teachers' unions are, not just with the Democrats, but with Alinskyites to this day, as someone who is openly involved in educating educators in the NEA and AFT, to Howard Zinn, the Zinn Educational Project, which to this day is creating promotional and educational material that the unions advance.
00:08:26.000Ibram X. Kendi, who speaks at their conferences, culturally and educationally, they have crossed that Rubicon to tearing the institution down.
00:08:38.000But they are ahead of the political consciousness of just enough of that residue that still appreciates America.
00:08:45.000So that creates a political liability for them that you are entirely right about.
00:08:53.000I'm not talking about you, but I think Republicans and conservatives in general by the shiny object of winning elections and thinking that will be sufficient when ultimately it's the undercurrent of what the progressives and now Marxists control that are pumping out future voters who are much more difficult to be mugged by reality.
00:09:12.000And when you send them to college with common sense, they have some skills prepared to navigate them.
00:09:17.000When you confuse them about their gender at the age of six or seven and implant grievances on their heart, that's a lot more difficult to undo.
00:09:25.000And we talk about a phrase called paideia, which is an ancient Greek word long forgotten.
00:09:47.000They understood that and targeted that.
00:09:49.000We've never had that intentionally targeted toward atheist and anti-American sentiments.
00:09:56.000And so politically, I see serious vulnerabilities that we're going to need to capitalize on and then do the types of thing you're doing with Turning Point Academy to take over the educational pipeline on our own.
00:10:08.000But culturally, they are doing this because they really do control it all.
00:10:12.000Find me one major institution other than Fox News Channel, Talk Radio, and podcasts and organizations like yours that have any influence in our culture.
00:10:57.000330 days on the road I spent last year.
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00:13:25.000I think our founders suffered from that.
00:13:30.000If you could fault them for one thing, it's making a bit of the assumption that the ideas that they landed upon not would be self-perpetuated.
00:13:37.000They knew they would not, but that they would be effectively the default.
00:13:41.000And that has been, as we've seen our culture wars and political wars erode, I think we all felt like, well, at least the stop for the longest time, at least the fallback line is, you know, America's a good place.
00:13:54.000Capitalism is beneficial and basic freedoms will be preserved.
00:14:06.000I also think school is a particular case.
00:14:09.000We cannot underestimate the gravitational pull that I had, that you likely had, that most of your viewers had, to the idyllic vision of public education.
00:14:20.000You know, you go, you go with your friends from the neighborhood and you play sports and you go to prom and you have all the Friday night lights and all the experiences that you remember.
00:14:30.000And parents say, well, it's good enough for me.
00:14:46.000Unraveling that worm glow, it's just like what you're going at with higher education.
00:14:50.000You know, hey, I'm going to keep giving to my endowment fund because I like the football team.
00:14:54.000And I really remember those years in my early 20s where I drank a lot and spent time with friends.
00:15:00.000They still reflexively give money to those institutions 30, 40 years later, even though those institutions are completely antithetical to what they believe in.
00:15:08.000So the first, that's what makes this moment such an opportunity is we're finally breaking the status quo of the view of government schools.
00:15:16.000And now we get an opportunity to, it also required rediscovering what education actually looked like.
00:15:23.000I would say the darkest moment of education in America was the 1970s, when there was not a single classical Christian school in America.
00:16:11.000It took us 100 years, but we've now realized how central education is.
00:16:15.000Conservatives were busy raising our families, going to church, fighting wars to keep the world safe from democracy and preserving free markets and focused on that in the political sphere as opposed to education.
00:16:29.000So I think finally the idea of a retreat from the system and completing our creating our entirely new ecosystem is the moment and the opportunity we have.
00:16:40.000And you know what's heartening to me to get back to your point at the end of the last segment?
00:16:45.000Their consolidation is not complete as far as our country, because we don't need 100% of students to go to Turning Point Academy or classical Christian schools.
00:16:57.000We need to pump out 3%, 4%, 5%, fortified, elite, strong, courageous thinkers into the next generation.
00:17:04.000It's always about that number that turn the tide and can demonstrate the fallacies, the falsehoods, the lies, the lack of results of what the left always delivers.
00:17:38.000The sports teams, the packed auditoriums, you know, the football team, all my friends I grew up with, you know, nicer computers.
00:17:49.000It was all the kind of window dressing.
00:17:52.000And now the window dressing has remained and, in fact, probably gotten better because of increased public funding.
00:18:00.000But the radicalism has also increased.
00:18:02.000So parents are like, huh, I know that my child might get on puberty blockers, learn to hate the country, and also not know if he's a man or a woman, but the football team's pretty awesome.
00:18:13.000And they have turf on the football field.
00:18:17.000I'm sure a lot of you are wondering how you can learn about things that are good, true, and beautiful.
00:18:22.000Well, I've talked about Hillsdale College for a while, but look, there's a video I want you to see.
00:18:27.000It's the trailer to Hillsdale College's newest free online course, C.S. Lewis on Christianity.
00:18:33.000We talk a lot about current events on the show, but some things are more important than today's news.
00:18:39.000And C.S. Lewis was a master at addressing life's most important questions through vivid language that's entertaining and fascinating.
00:18:45.000You may know Lewis as the author of The Chronicles of Narnia, but he's also considered the greatest Christian apologist of the 20th century.
00:18:52.000As a radio host, I appreciate Lewis' ability to communicate and inspire.
00:18:56.000In fact, not people don't know this, but Mere Christianity, his book, began as a series of radio messages.
00:19:02.000Hillsdale's free online course covers C.S. Lewis's profound insights into good and evil, prayer and the Bible, and even heaven and hell.
00:19:10.000And did I mention his course is entirely free?
00:19:12.000So go watch the trailer video of C.S. Lewis on Christianity and sign up for this new free online course at charlie4hillsdale.com.
00:19:24.000You guys should go there at least once a week.
00:19:26.000You guys can get online courses, sign up for Imprimus, learn about Aristotle, learn about the Constitution, learn about the Declaration, learn about the Federalist Papers.
00:19:45.000Pete, what's the significance of that?
00:19:47.000You're one of the few people that will actually be able to tell us what that means.
00:19:50.000Well, democracy has long been one of the favorite words of the left.
00:19:55.000In fact, when the Marxists came over from the Frankfurt School, just that one particular strand, they actually changed.
00:20:02.000text that they had written in Germany.
00:20:04.000And rather than saying communism or authoritarianism, they would insert the word democracy.
00:20:09.000Democracy has long been a code word for do what we want, conform to the system we like.
00:20:16.000And our founders were well versed in Greek, Roman, and Western history and understanding the inevitable impulse of democracies, what the tyranny of a majority may look like.
00:20:28.000Now that we've ripped civics, history, you know, even things like geography and put them under the umbrella of social science and social studies, which was also a move of the progressives because they didn't want to ever study objective truth.
00:20:45.000They wanted to study how you look at different pieces of different items through the prism of challenging the patriarchy and challenging the Western Christian paideia, the assumptions of what our country was founded on.
00:21:01.000So democracy became a catch-all word for how the people respond to their relationship with government, as opposed to a republic, which is precisely what our founders chose after studying what previous governments and democracies had been.
00:21:22.000The difference is a reflection in the understanding of human nature.
00:21:25.000And that actually, if you look at the hierarchy of questions that matter the most, is there a God?
00:21:30.000And the second one is, are we inherently good or inherently sinful?
00:21:34.000And the Bible and Christianity answers that question.
00:21:37.000Our founders studied it and understood you had to put in the checks and balances it required in a republic to check the impulses of human beings who have an inherent drive for power and consolidation and control.
00:21:55.000Every time I hear the word democracy fall off the lips of politicians all the way up to the current occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, that is a continuation of precisely what they've wanted our kids to believe so that they can advance social control.
00:22:14.000And this all comes down to a question of human nature.
00:22:17.000Do you think that people are going to act, as Thomas Hobbes would say, in a nasty, brutish or short fashion?
00:22:22.000Do you think people are naturally good?
00:22:24.000And if you think people are naturally predisposed towards greed or anger or towards tyranny, then you should have a check and balance.
00:22:32.000You have to get permission from the governed.
00:22:34.000You have to have separation of powers.
00:22:35.000These are all characteristics of the constitutional framework.
00:22:40.000You were going to chime in about the kind of window dressings of these Marxist indoctrination factories.
00:22:47.000It's a brilliant strategy, by the way.
00:22:49.000You put the worst ideas imaginable, you fill it with incredibly motivated left-wing activist educators.
00:22:58.000And then alongside of it, or all around it, I should say, you have these incredibly expensive and beautiful, you know, football stadiums and astroturf and all of that.
00:23:12.000And then you put massively high property taxes on the backs of taxpayers to pay for those things so they feel invested in them.
00:23:20.000And you, I mean, effectively, parents these days know what's going on and they kind of go like this and they go, I think my kids will be okay.
00:23:27.000I'm going to spend a little bit more time talking to them because if it was good enough for me, it's good enough for them.
00:23:32.000And look at the shiny new gym and the iPads that they have and the new STEM program that is going to set them up for success.
00:23:39.000STEM program is the same argument that they made, by the way, in the early 20th century about the industrial economy and the new skills needed for the new economy for workers.
00:23:49.000Don't train their minds to be liberated through the liberal arts.
00:23:53.000Teach them a skill for the future economy and make them useful workers.
00:24:06.000But I also want them to understand where their freedom comes from and have a liberated mind as they go through life.
00:24:12.000And so the same goes with even AP courses.
00:24:15.000Oh, they've got AP courses and you can qualify for college credits.
00:24:19.000Yeah, but they're teaching your kids that they should potentially consider changing their gender.
00:24:29.000And then the social pressure on top of it, Charlie, we hand cell phones to kids at the age of eight, nine, 10 years old, and expect them to deal with both the authority of their teacher because teachers are the authority.
00:24:40.000I remember that when I was 14, 15, 16, the teacher said it, it's true.
00:24:46.000You're a huge part of that, but that's the assumption.
00:24:49.000So put them in a nice building, teachers with lots of authority with fancy devices, and then try to undo that with one morning on Sunday and Wednesday night at church.
00:24:58.000The progressives wrote about that openly.
00:25:00.000Good luck with your theistic training when we have 40 hours of progressive indoctrination.
00:25:07.000We did a Fox News interview together this morning, and we got great feedback from the audience.
00:25:14.000And you were asked a question by the great Ainslie Earhart where you said, Are you ready to give up on government schools?
00:25:22.000And you were really blunt in your answer.
00:26:22.000Retreating just into homeschooling, as useful as that is, and it's very useful, I don't think is sufficient.
00:26:29.000We got to build alternate institutions of learning that have their own status to them, that are respected, that have their own traditions, that we then push generations through to take it back.
00:26:42.000So, so, Pete, I didn't know this about you, and I promise I'm not going to hold this against you, but you went to Princeton, if I'm not mistaken, right?
00:26:50.000And so I read that about you and Princeton and Harvard, which is which is awesome.
00:26:56.000And so, part of this, though, is very impressive.
00:27:00.000When I was reading your bio, I immediately think higher of your intellect because you have the stamp of approval of Princeton and Harvard.
00:27:09.000Understandably, it's really hard to get into.
00:27:11.000But can you, as someone who's gone to Princeton and Harvard, can you tell us about how that actually probably creates from a parent's perspective a push towards over-credentialing, right?
00:27:25.000Where you got to go to Princeton, got to go to Harvard.
00:27:28.000And so, can you, what's your thought on that as someone who's actually been to these institutions?
00:27:33.000Because I think a lot of parents are willing to put aside, you know, this idea that men can become pregnant or all this insane stuff, the inability to answer the question of what is a woman.
00:27:43.000If you get that piece of paper from Princeton and Harvard, you're uniquely positioned to be able to answer this question.
00:28:00.000I am now actually, I shake my head and am ashamed by the sheepish fashion in which I pursued what I deemed to be the best in the eyes of the world.
00:28:11.000And I will forgive myself because that's what I thought it was when I was there.
00:28:16.000I now, I mean, I've already told my wife I'm mailing at a minimum my Harvard degree back and likely the Princeton one too, with return to sender written on it in dramatic fashion at the right point, because I don't want to be a part of perpetuating the elevation of those institutions as if they should be an impremature of your credibility inside our culture and elite society.
00:28:39.000Because you've set the example and you're writing a book about it now, about how when we take them off those pedestals, it reduces their ability to set the terms of what is valued and what is important.
00:28:51.000But I want to ask you, though, a lot of parents are struggling with this, though, because they say, it's worth it.
00:28:58.000That piece of paper will be an admission ticket.
00:29:36.000There are glimmers of hope, and you know your kids better than anyone else does.
00:29:43.000But I think feeding into that rat line, feeding into the elite school so they can get into the elite colleges and get the paycheck, what is the paycheck worth if at that very same time your child is a Bernie Sanders style socialist or is prescribing to the belief that America is a horrible place?
00:30:01.000Because if you didn't fortify them, I mean, really, really fortify them.
00:30:04.000That is the group think of what they will come out with.
00:30:07.000Sure, they might have a beach house and they'll be set up for better opportunities, but what kind of legacy do you want to leave?
00:30:13.000And that's probably the most difficult part of this project, Charlie.
00:30:21.000I see it with friends of mine, and I won't name any names, who are very conservative and very open about the topics we talk about, but still give in to the gravitational pull of I'm going to pay 60 grand for my first grader to go to this elite school, even though it is the wokest of the woke woke, because if they get into that elementary, it leads to this middle school and that high school.
00:30:41.000And that means you got a ticket to the Ivy Leagues, possibly.
00:30:44.000And what would I do if my kid wasn't in the Ivy League?
00:30:47.000I hope we can break, we need to break that misconception down.
00:30:52.000And it starts by people who've been to those institutions saying, it's not that cool.
00:30:56.000And yes, I had some opportunities later in life, but if I worked my tail off, I could have had them anyway.
00:31:15.000I learned about real sacrifice and I learned why America is such a special place.
00:31:20.000I didn't learn it at Princeton, where they taught me in the first day of my class on Christianity that Jesus was likely buried in a shallow grave and eaten by dogs by their biblical scholar on the first day that I arrived.
00:31:31.000I didn't learn it from eggheads at Princeton?
00:31:51.000Elaine Pagels, New York Times bestseller.
00:31:54.000She immediately said, nothing you've ever learned is true.
00:31:58.000But it led me to Firestone Library where I did my own research.
00:32:02.000And that's the first time I encountered the reality of how close the events were to the actual gospels written down, which compared to any other, you know what I mean.
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00:33:41.000The archaeological evidence for the gospel, the life, ministry, unfair death, burial and resurrection of Christ.
00:33:50.000It's amazing when you look into the archaeological evidence for it, from the inexplicable record of female witnesses to how close Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John was written to actual events themselves, to Josephus, the extra biblical reinforcement.
00:34:05.000Just had to add that little, you know, little fact in there to push back against the Harvard and Princeton lady.
00:34:12.000And I had to find that truth in the dark corner of the basement on dusty books inside an institution formerly founded, as you pointed out, to train Presbyterian ministers.
00:34:25.000That's where you had to search to find it.
00:34:29.000One other thing on these lead schools, though, I think many, many people in different industries in our country are realizing they don't want a bunch of highly, first of all, very woke activists who think very highly of themselves and don't think they should have to work hard, often many of which are produced by these institutions.
00:34:49.000And not to mention the standards that have been reduced based on the attack they've made on the SAT at College Board.
00:34:55.000I mean, Common Core has turned into the SAT.
00:35:00.000Now it's just a test you can study for alongside all the other ways in which the engineer who goes to these schools, the product they're creating has been so wildly diluted.
00:35:10.000There will be a point where the return on investment is far less worth it when you hire someone who they allowed in the gate of these institutions.
00:35:19.000So, in closing, here, again, it's Pete Hegset's amazing book, Battle for the American Mind: Action Steps.
00:35:27.000What is the solution agenda for the American grassroots?
00:35:32.000Okay, the first thing, and you're doing it, and I'm doing it with this book, is it's a word of the left raising awareness or getting rid of implicit bias that parents have toward their public schools.
00:35:41.000You have to understand the depth of the problem to get to a solution.
00:35:45.000And that's what is going to be ongoing, and we'll continue doing that.
00:35:49.000Then, as a former counterinsurgency instructor, I turn to what's the tactic that's going to work the most.
00:35:57.000We retreat from the government schools because we can't win in that fight.
00:36:01.000And what's the form of warfare, ideological warfare, that's most effective when you have the have-nots against the haves or the weak against the strong?
00:36:30.000You start exposing the corrupt nature of the educational regime, and you start encouraging people to find an alternative.
00:36:39.000Once you've built enough of those schools and that capacity, then you really ramp up the awareness effort to the point where there's a flood.
00:36:47.000There's such a demand that it starts, and then you start to build the ecosystem that supports it, new teachers' colleges, additional curriculum, higher education that supports it, ecosystem of everything else.
00:36:59.000And then you get into the policy realm, which is universal educational tax credits.
00:37:05.000The idea that the dollars follow the parents and they can go to government schools if you so choose, or to vocational schools, parochial schools, Christian schools, whatever you want.
00:37:18.000That's how you break the back of the educational industrial complex.
00:37:21.000They believe they have a monopoly because they have a monopoly on the money right now.
00:37:25.000So, we've been yelling about vouchers and school choice for years ineffectively as conservatives.
00:37:30.000We have to take the action first and not expect some policy to change it.
00:37:34.000Because if you can have a choice to go to just a little less woke school, that's not really a choice that's going to change the trajectory of our republic.
00:37:42.000So, we lay it out in the book through five chapters what these phases look like, what classical Christian education looks like, and other forms of education that are going to save the republic.
00:37:53.000The Battle for the American Mind by Pete Hegseth.
00:37:56.000Pete, thank you for being so generous with your time.