The Charlie Kirk Show - The Bible vs. Karl Marx with James Lindsay

00:00:00.000 Hey, everybody.

00:00:01.000 A illuminating conversation with James Lindsay about hermetics, Gnosticism.

00:00:06.000 This conversation really connected the dots for me.

00:00:13.000 It's very, very persuasive.

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00:00:39.000 Buckle up, everybody.

00:00:40.000 Here we go.

00:00:41.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:43.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campuses.

00:00:45.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

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00:00:52.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:00:53.000 He's an incredible guy.

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00:01:26.000 James Lindsay, Charlie Kirk.

00:01:28.000 You have a groomer shirt on?

00:01:30.000 I do.

00:01:30.000 Okay, groomer.

00:01:31.000 But you're not endorsing grooming.

00:01:32.000 No, I'm calling it out.

00:01:33.000 I'm calling it out.

00:01:36.000 The listeners of the Charlie Kirk show know I have a lot of respect for you, and I really enjoy having you on the show because you're super smart and really kind of understand what's happening in the world.

00:01:45.000 So we can go any direction here.

00:01:46.000 I do want to talk about your book, The Marxification of Education.

00:01:50.000 Yeah, cool.

00:01:50.000 That's out.

00:01:51.000 We can go there.

00:01:51.000 But I just find this interesting when I think I first started talking to you.

00:01:54.000 You said you were an atheist.

00:01:56.000 Yeah.

00:01:56.000 And you no longer use that label.

00:01:58.000 Yeah, it's not the best label.

00:02:02.000 Agnostic, and honestly, I think agnostic was a better label for what I actually held to, but I'd kind of get wrapped up into this movement and it was using the words and kind of different ways.

00:02:12.000 Imagine that.

00:02:12.000 A movement using words in different ways than they're actually intended.

00:02:16.000 And so, I mean, my answer on that is I don't know.

00:02:19.000 I don't claim to know.

00:02:20.000 And since I don't claim to know, I'm agnostic, right?

00:02:23.000 So you don't claim to know.

00:02:25.000 And so you've been spending a lot of time around churches.

00:02:28.000 You know the Bible super well.

00:02:30.000 I do.

00:02:31.000 I have read the Bible, all of it, which not a lot of people have.

00:02:35.000 It's 860-something thousand words or something like that.

00:02:38.000 It's long.

00:02:39.000 My wife has a Bible in 365 ministry that helps get people to read the whole Bible.

00:02:43.000 Majority of Christians have never read the whole Bible.

00:02:45.000 I won't lie to you.

00:02:46.000 I might have skipped a little in numbers.

00:02:48.000 You know what's so interesting?

00:02:49.000 You know what the real title of the book of Numbers is?

00:02:51.000 What's that?

00:02:51.000 Into the Wild.

00:02:52.000 Oh, wow.

00:02:53.000 It's way better than numbers, right?

00:02:55.000 Into the Wild is way more interesting than numbers.

00:02:58.000 So you read a lot.

00:03:01.000 I do.

00:03:02.000 Has the Bible spoke to you in any way of beauty or in, dare I say, transcendence, or where you say there's something really special here?

00:03:12.000 There is something very special there.

00:03:13.000 As far as it's speaking to me in like a transcendent way, I can't claim that.

00:03:17.000 That wouldn't be honest of me.

00:03:20.000 Understanding the arc of the story, particularly the Old Testament, is a story of, I mean, at the beginning, you have the creation part, of course, but then what you have is a story of a people who have made a covenant with their deity that they just keep falling short from, and then they keep getting called back to by a prophet that brings them back, and then things get good, they fall away, things get bad.

00:03:44.000 They get called back, things get good, they fall away, things get bad.

00:03:47.000 And it's kind of this long story of human frailty and failure.

00:03:52.000 And that when you live right, when you get right, life goes well.

00:03:57.000 When you get into dark things or you start messing around where you shouldn't be, or you aren't paying attention to your duties and your responsibilities, life goes bad.

00:04:06.000 And then when we get, of course, to the wisdom and the teaching that we see in the New Testament, I think that you see just incredibly cogent ways to think about life and how one can live and what the challenge is.

00:04:22.000 Like, look with this groomer thing, right, with the drag queens. 1.00

00:04:26.000 How hard is it to remember meekness in the face of that?

00:04:31.000 How hard is it to live up to the ideal of turning the cheek while also not stepping away from your duty to protect the little ones?

00:04:40.000 Which is an explicit teaching.

00:04:41.000 Exactly. 0.88

00:04:42.000 Cause one of these little ones to stumble and the millstones, you deserve the millstone around it. 0.67

00:04:46.000 It'd be better to have a millstone around your neck and thrown into the sea.

00:04:50.000 And so, okay.

00:04:52.000 Well, if you, I mean, think about it.

00:04:53.000 If you are in the position where you're not, I'm not, everybody can look at the drag queens or the groomer clowns or whatever you want to call them and say, okay, causing little ones to stumble, millstones. 0.97

00:05:04.000 No, Christian. 1.00

00:05:05.000 No, good, decent person.

00:05:08.000 You can't be a bystander to that either.

00:05:10.000 No.

00:05:11.000 Or millstones, buddy.

00:05:13.000 But you also have to handle it with meekness.

00:05:15.000 You also have to call it out the right way.

00:05:17.000 You have to go about it in a way that doesn't step outside of what your duty is.

00:05:23.000 And this is hard.

00:05:24.000 It's incredibly hard.

00:05:25.000 And this is profound when you read this.

00:05:27.000 So it's interesting because you were once part, maybe you still are, a community that would call themselves the new atheist movement.

00:05:35.000 Is that a fair description?

00:05:36.000 No, that's correct.

00:05:37.000 I was.

00:05:38.000 And it's interesting.

00:05:39.000 The people I've met from the new atheist movement, I say this, it drives people nuts, actually act more like Jesus than most Christians do. 1.00

00:05:45.000 Well, some of them.

00:05:46.000 Some of them.

00:05:46.000 No, I mean, like, Bogosi is super honest.

00:05:49.000 He's incredibly, he's like almost pathologically.

00:05:54.000 But I think honesty and truth is the number one Christian.

00:05:57.000 That's what the whole thing is.

00:05:58.000 It has to be.

00:05:58.000 Yeah.

00:05:58.000 It's the logos.

00:06:00.000 It's the natural law.

00:06:01.000 Sure.

00:06:01.000 It's existence, right?

00:06:02.000 Yeah, I agree.

00:06:04.000 And I find the same in you.

00:06:06.000 And you have great charm and you're a really happy person and joyful.

00:06:09.000 I don't find that there's nothing that drives me nuts more than unhappy religious people. 1.00

00:06:13.000 Oh, right.

00:06:13.000 It's like no fruit at all.

00:06:14.000 So, but has the Bible and reading the Bible changed you in any way?

00:06:19.000 Or where you said, I'm thinking about things differently because of it?

00:06:24.000 I mean, obviously it has to be because why am I reading the Bible when I read the Bible now?

00:06:31.000 Well, I believe the things that I'm targeting.

00:06:33.000 And of course, your audience already knows this, but we'll repeat it just for in case somebody doesn't.

00:06:37.000 I study communism.

00:06:38.000 I study Marx.

00:06:39.000 I study Hegel, one of his precursors.

00:06:41.000 Hegel was a theologian, but he was a perverse theologian.

00:06:44.000 Yes, he was a corrupted theologian. 0.97

00:06:46.000 He was a heretic. 0.81

00:06:46.000 He was. 0.81

00:06:47.000 He was a hermeticist, quite literally, intentionally.

00:06:51.000 He had bought into the whole thing.

00:06:52.000 We can talk about that in government step.

00:06:54.000 And so when you look at what Marx creates, what Hegel creates and what Marx adopts and then throws the spiritual aspect out of it, at least in name, but not in what happens, you're looking at something that was these weird esoteric heretical religions getting hammered into a shape of Christianity.

00:07:12.000 That's what Hegel did.

00:07:13.000 Called it science.

00:07:14.000 Then Marx flips it over and says we're going to pretend that man is at the center of being.

00:07:19.000 So you can't understand Marx without grappling with the thing that it is inverting, the thing that it is transforming.

00:07:26.000 So when I read the Bible, I have to read it in that context.

00:07:31.000 I have to read it trying to, not just for that context, but I understand.

00:07:34.000 So there are things to grapple with.

00:07:35.000 Like, why does the parable of the talents matter so much?

00:07:39.000 Why does it?

00:07:40.000 Because it's true.

00:07:41.000 Do you know how easy it is to become frustrated with, like, you pick up some new thing.

00:07:45.000 You're going to learn the giant sword from me, right?

00:07:48.000 That thing's hard to wield.

00:07:50.000 It's frustrating.

00:07:51.000 You try it.

00:07:51.000 You're bad at it.

00:07:52.000 You hurt yourself. 0.82

00:07:53.000 You screw up.

00:07:54.000 You break something.

00:07:55.000 You know, it's difficult.

00:07:56.000 So, what do you have to do?

00:07:57.000 You have to start with small things, and you have to get better at them.

00:08:01.000 And then, when you've gained some degree of mastery and competence and small things, then you can take on a larger responsibility.

00:08:06.000 Turning point was tiny when you started.

00:08:08.000 It was you.

00:08:09.000 And then now you've got 11,000 people like screaming and going crazy at this huge event.

00:08:15.000 You start with small things, you show responsibility, you get a handle on how to handle the small things, and the thing you can, it grows.

00:08:21.000 You can grow it.

00:08:22.000 You can handle something bigger.

00:08:23.000 That is the parable of the talents.

00:08:26.000 Good and faithful servant.

00:08:28.000 Yes, well, it's also that if you don't even attempt to multiply what has been given to you, exactly.

00:08:33.000 There's many, many lessons.

00:08:35.000 Moral teachings of the parable of the talent.

00:08:36.000 That's right.

00:08:37.000 Which is in conflict with Marxism, though.

00:08:39.000 But that's the thing is, imagine like you're approaching life, and it's so hard.

00:08:42.000 It's so frustrating, and you don't know what to do.

00:08:44.000 You're a young person, you decide I'm going to major in physics.

00:08:47.000 That's not an easy major.

00:08:49.000 And you show up.

00:08:49.000 I'm not.

00:08:50.000 Let's say you're a girl and you want to major in physics.

00:08:52.000 And you try.

00:08:54.000 And physics is hard.

00:08:54.000 It's very hard.

00:08:55.000 Physics has like a 5% graduation rate, or back when they used to fail kids out of college, it did.

00:08:59.000 It's a very hard major.

00:09:01.000 And so you try.

00:09:03.000 You don't have that level of mastery.

00:09:04.000 You don't do your homework the way it needs to be.

00:09:06.000 Maybe whatever it works out to be.

00:09:08.000 You don't get there.

00:09:09.000 And then you become frustrated.

00:09:11.000 When you try, you learn a sword.

00:09:12.000 You get frustrated.

00:09:13.000 And it's so easy to outsource that.

00:09:15.000 You could be that girl in college and say, well, it's not me.

00:09:17.000 It's the physics department.

00:09:19.000 The physics department is sexist. 1.00

00:09:20.000 It doesn't treat girls right. 1.00

00:09:21.000 Somebody said a mean thing to me once about girls.

00:09:23.000 And now you have an excuse for why you didn't gain any mastery.

00:09:26.000 So when I look at this, the root of Marxism is, just in the context of this parable of the talents discussion, is that people who are trying to kind of skip the steps of the small piece to the bigger piece to the bigger piece, mastering at each stage, good and faithful servant, you've done well with a few things.

00:09:45.000 Now you can be master over many.

00:09:47.000 If you're going to do that, if you're going to try to skip the steps, there's a strong temptation to just blame the system, blame men, blame the department, and never take responsibility for it.

00:09:58.000 Yeah, I mean, look, the Bible is at direct odds with Marxist activism.

00:10:03.000 It is.

00:10:04.000 Tell me why.

00:10:04.000 Explain.

00:10:04.000 I mean, I do a whole show on that, but tell me why in your words.

00:10:07.000 Well, I mean, there are multiple reasons, but the Bible, and I think these are your words because when I came on your show recently, you indoctrinated me in the tend to do that.

00:10:17.000 But you were absolutely right.

00:10:18.000 And I have to give you a, you transformed my thinking.

00:10:21.000 Wow.

00:10:21.000 In a powerful way.

00:10:22.000 That's a big compliment.

00:10:23.000 Talking about how the Bible is a book of distinctions, good and evil, man and woman.

00:10:27.000 We could go through.

00:10:28.000 You have a better list than I do.

00:10:29.000 Well, God and man.

00:10:30.000 Yes, man and nature.

00:10:31.000 That's a huge one.

00:10:32.000 God and man is a really big one that Marx throws right out.

00:10:34.000 If you don't understand that, you don't understand Marxism.

00:10:37.000 Is that man is his own creator.

00:10:39.000 He is his own son that he's going to put himself in revolution around.

00:10:44.000 He says that.

00:10:44.000 That's in the critique of Hegel's philosophy of the right.

00:10:47.000 He explicitly says that.

00:10:49.000 And so these distinctions are huge.

00:10:52.000 The distinction between God and man is one of humility.

00:10:55.000 You throw that out.

00:10:56.000 You have arrogance.

00:10:57.000 And hierarchy, too.

00:10:58.000 That's right.

00:10:58.000 Everything.

00:10:59.000 And so you say the Bible is a book of distinctions.

00:11:01.000 Reality is a reality of distinctions.

00:11:03.000 And if you can't do that, you don't have discernment.

00:11:05.000 You don't have clarity.

00:11:06.000 You don't have understanding.

00:11:07.000 And so Marxism is trying to obliterate those.

00:11:09.000 And in fact, again, we come back to the Hermeticism at the root of all this is esoteric religions.

00:11:14.000 The goal of Hermeticism, this is where the dialectic comes from from Hegel or the dialectical materialism of Marx.

00:11:21.000 The goal is actually to see opposites as unified parts within a single whole.

00:11:25.000 So let's get into Hermeticism.

00:11:27.000 It's to obliterate, though, distinctions, all distinctions, so that we reabsorb into the oneness of the original all and become God.

00:11:37.000 Which the Bible is directly at odds with.

00:11:41.000 It's pretty mad about that repeatedly with like fire coming from the sky and stories of the world.

00:11:47.000 One of the very simple arguments made in the Bible that most Christians can't really articulate, which is what you mentioned that I just jumps off the page, which is reality, the natural law, existence needs distinctions.

00:12:03.000 It's 100% correct.

00:12:05.000 It needs them.

00:12:06.000 And so what you have in this opposite teaching is distinctions are what separate us from the whole.

00:12:11.000 Yes.

00:12:12.000 And so if we're going to return to the whole, which is the oneness of God, which sounds great.

00:12:16.000 Tom Lauderdale.

00:12:16.000 It sounds great.

00:12:17.000 How is it?

00:12:17.000 Isn't that the opposite diversity?

00:12:20.000 Well, isn't it?

00:12:21.000 No, but meaning like they always say they want diversity, but they want oneness?

00:12:25.000 Well, and the contradiction is everything, because what they mean by diversity, of course, is unity of thought.

00:12:31.000 And if we, it's like, you can say, okay, well, that's what they do in Marxism or that's what they do in intersectionality or whatever these new woke things.

00:12:37.000 What's the first principle of the seven principles of Hermeticism?

00:12:40.000 It's a principle of mind or principle of the mental principle.

00:12:43.000 Everything is mental.

00:12:44.000 Okay, so what does that mean?

00:12:45.000 It means if you have distinctions in your mind, then everything's not unified.

00:12:49.000 So how do you get back to the unified whole?

00:12:52.000 There's no distinctions in mind.

00:12:54.000 Okay, but you have your thoughts and I have my thoughts.

00:12:56.000 That's a distinction.

00:12:57.000 You don't think the same as I do about a lot of things.

00:13:00.000 I mean, you might like pancakes or something.

00:13:02.000 I don't like pancakes. 0.99

00:13:03.000 This is a stupid example, but you know what I mean? 0.99

00:13:06.000 The only way for us to return to the whole is that your mind and my mind have no differences. 0.99

00:13:12.000 So diversity has this weird narrowing definition where it's a bunch of people who look different at first.

00:13:17.000 Then it's a bunch of people who aren't the dominant groups, right?

00:13:23.000 A hundred percent black MBA team is 100% diverse.

00:13:26.000 They said that explicitly.

00:13:28.000 And then it's people who have critical consciousness of their identity.

00:13:31.000 And then it's people who are touting the party line.

00:13:33.000 And then eventually it's we all have to think exactly the same.

00:13:36.000 For the sake of our audience, let's explain what hermeticism is, because even I'm learning about this.

00:13:42.000 I've heard it before.

00:13:43.000 And I took an amazing Hillsdale College online course where they talk about the history of Christianity.

00:13:48.000 And they have like a half a course on the heretical beliefs that were defeated and Hermeticism was part of it. 0.98

00:13:54.000 Sure.

00:13:54.000 And Gnosticism was part of it.

00:13:56.000 I never really thought deeply about it.

00:13:57.000 So even educate me.

00:13:59.000 No, it's a thing.

00:14:01.000 In fact, I've read a book about Hermeticism and Gnosticism from ancient times to the modern era.

00:14:06.000 I can give you the, I can't remember the title exactly, but I can give you the citation.

00:14:09.000 You can read it yourself.

00:14:10.000 And it's a very interesting book.

00:14:12.000 It's by two Dutch academics.

00:14:14.000 And they explain at the very beginning, academics won't talk about this because you might as well be talking about aliens or parapsychology, ESP, telekinesis, and stuff.

00:14:22.000 Like you get made fun of.

00:14:23.000 So nobody studies these things.

00:14:25.000 But wizardry of this kind or sorcery or whatever we want to call it, was esotericism, if we want to be formal and academic and correct and careful, was extremely popular throughout Europe through the Middle Ages, especially among elite classes.

00:14:41.000 It was like the thing, well, why did what is what was Madonna?

00:14:44.000 Madonna gets rich, Madonna gets bored, Madonna ends up doing Kabbalah, it gets super weird, and now like, whoa, what happened?

00:14:50.000 She got into wizardry.

00:14:51.000 She got into Hermeticism.

00:14:52.000 So nobody knows about it.

00:14:54.000 Okay.

00:14:55.000 I just did the series of lectures.

00:14:57.000 You came and visited at the Redeemer Bible.

00:14:59.000 There's Crater and Gilbert.

00:15:00.000 And my three lectures that had a running title among the three, which is the secret religions of the West.

00:15:06.000 And it's that there's Hermetic and Gnostic religions have been running as a hidden current throughout the subterranean.

00:15:13.000 Yeah, an underground entire faith system that we've never talked about.

00:15:17.000 We never discuss it.

00:15:18.000 But that has had a huge impact.

00:15:20.000 Hegel and Marx were all in this.

00:15:22.000 So that's why you've not heard of it.

00:15:24.000 But it's a religion that allegedly comes from Egypt.

00:15:28.000 It predates Plato.

00:15:30.000 We know that it predates Plato because Plato refers to it in the Phaedrus.

00:15:34.000 He says these ideas.

00:15:34.000 Positively or negatively?

00:15:36.000 Positively.

00:15:36.000 As a matter of fact, Plato, watch yourself.

00:15:39.000 Plato, a little bit of a wizard.

00:15:41.000 In the Phaedrus, he says these ideas, he puts in Socrates' mouth, where do these ideas come from?

00:15:45.000 You know, this seems so ancient, blah, blah, blah.

00:15:46.000 He says, well, they come from other places.

00:15:48.000 They come from this particular port that's just north of Alexandria, and they come from the person that the Egyptians, or the god that the Egyptians call Toth, who it doesn't say it in the Phaedrus, but in Greek that's rendered as Hermes.

00:16:00.000 And it's attributed to a character that goes by the name of Hermes Trismegistus.

00:16:05.000 That's where you get Hermetic.

00:16:06.000 Hermetic as of Hermes.

00:16:08.000 Hermes is also the Greek god in the myth that goes into Hades or goes into the underworld to get Demeter back.

00:16:14.000 What does the word mean in Greek?

00:16:15.000 Anything or something?

00:16:16.000 He's a messenger.

00:16:17.000 Is that what it means?

00:16:18.000 Which, I mean, I don't know what Hermes.

00:16:21.000 Oh, no, okay, got it.

00:16:22.000 All right.

00:16:22.000 But that's where we get the word Hermetic.

00:16:26.000 Yes, from Hermes.

00:16:27.000 From Hermes.

00:16:27.000 That it's related to the God Hermes.

00:16:30.000 It's the teachings of the God Hermes, who's the one who went into, is the messenger God, which already starts getting Luciferian undertones, and they all call themselves Luciferian when they get far enough into this.

00:16:39.000 They all do, because they think they're bringing light to the world.

00:16:42.000 And he's the one in the Greek myth that goes into the underworld to rescue Demeter from his daughter Persephone from Hades and bring her back.

00:16:52.000 And being inducted into this is what's called the Eleusinian Mysteries, which, by the way, Hegel refers to as what it means to become a true philosopher.

00:17:01.000 So let's just slow it down a little bit.

00:17:03.000 I know, it's so hard.

00:17:04.000 This is hard, even really.

00:17:07.000 I'm grappling with most of it, but I just want to make sure.

00:17:11.000 So, what do they believe?

00:17:14.000 They believe that there is an ultimate oneness of all being.

00:17:21.000 What does that mean?

00:17:23.000 Is that like how Michael Fount said H.G. Wells, like global mind?

00:17:26.000 Is that part of the process that they would see as what they'd want to build?

00:17:31.000 It's beyond that.

00:17:34.000 It's like the thing that Christians refer to as God is like you have to blow that out to a higher level of infinity, of total all-oneness, undifferentiated being is where the true nature of God is. 0.94

00:17:45.000 It's completely unbegotten.

00:17:47.000 But the problem is, as undifferentiated all, God has no distinctions.

00:17:52.000 So he doesn't know himself.

00:17:54.000 So everything is God.

00:17:55.000 Everything.

00:17:56.000 Food.

00:17:57.000 Everything.

00:17:57.000 Well, in the beginning, that wouldn't even be.

00:18:00.000 There is no creation yet.

00:18:02.000 There's just undifferentiated, perfect all.

00:18:05.000 But in that, there's no distinction.

00:18:07.000 So the one thing God's missing, the one thing he's not complete in, is that he doesn't understand that he's God.

00:18:14.000 And so, in trying to understand himself, he starts to create.

00:18:19.000 In Kabbalistic Jewish teaching, this is very similar.

00:18:21.000 That's where they got it.

00:18:24.000 Everybody that wants to blame the Jews for all this stuff doesn't know that the Jews, just like Christians, just like Muslims, just like scientists throughout all of the history, especially in the Middle Ages, started taking up all of this stuff and working it in.

00:18:37.000 Jewish mystics, every religion has its mystics.

00:18:40.000 Every healthy religion calls them heretics and tries to keep their influence low.

00:18:46.000 Jewish mystics started to pick up this same Hermetic line.

00:18:50.000 Christian mystics started to pick up the same hermetic line, especially through the Middle Ages, when it became very, very popular.

00:18:56.000 Lurianic Kabbalah is rooted in this.

00:18:58.000 This is based on a particular Kabbalist, something, Luria, I forget his first name, that was extremely influential on Hegel and Marx.

00:19:06.000 Really?

00:19:07.000 Yes.

00:19:07.000 Third eye, all that stuff.

00:19:08.000 Yeah, that guy.

00:19:10.000 So Kabbalah?

00:19:12.000 Yeah.

00:19:13.000 Well, I mean, Kabbalah, you have to understand.

00:19:15.000 I overspoke a moment ago.

00:19:17.000 Kabbalah, it has its own Jewish thing.

00:19:21.000 It's their own thing.

00:19:23.000 But again, you always have these mystics, and the mystics work their way in.

00:19:27.000 And the mysticism in this case is very frequently Hermetic that works in underneath because what it does, what the Hermetic thing does, a core belief of the Hermetic, because remember, there's one all, right?

00:19:39.000 Is that there's only one religion or only one philosophy.

00:19:42.000 It doesn't matter which thing you choose.

00:19:43.000 In philosophy, they'd call it the perennial philosophy, the philosophia perennis.

00:19:48.000 And in religion, they call it the ancient theology, which is theologia something or another.

00:19:55.000 I'll think of it again in a minute.

00:19:56.000 And so the prieska theologia.

00:19:59.000 And so there's only one philosophy.

00:20:02.000 So it doesn't matter if it's a science.

00:20:03.000 It doesn't matter if it's a religion.

00:20:05.000 It doesn't matter if it's a philosophical school of thought.

00:20:07.000 All it is, think of it like a big diamond with a bunch of faces.

00:20:10.000 The diamond is the one true religion, that's Hermeticism.

00:20:13.000 And every Christianity is a face. 0.99

00:20:15.000 Judaism is a face. 1.00

00:20:16.000 Islam's a face. 1.00

00:20:18.000 You know, phenomenology is a face.

00:20:20.000 And so it's all just different tiny little aspects of one whole.

00:20:23.000 And you're supposed to, again, remove all the distinctions to get back to the whole.

00:20:27.000 So this is the way they think.

00:20:28.000 So what this means is they can start coming in and saying, oh, yeah, you got Kabbalah in your Judaism.

00:20:34.000 You only know part of the story.

00:20:35.000 We know the better part of the story, which is the undifferentiated all pours himself out into the tree of life.

00:20:40.000 The ten Sephiroth overflow.

00:20:42.000 Things shatter.

00:20:43.000 Things happen.

00:20:44.000 The divine enters into the world of the mundane.

00:20:46.000 And man becomes this thinking creature.

00:20:48.000 As a matter of fact, man in the Hermetic tradition is the third person in the Godhead.

00:20:52.000 There's this not Father, Son, Holy Spirit.

00:20:54.000 It is undifferentiated all or the all or God, or I guess you could say Father, which is unbegotten.

00:21:03.000 And then there's the self-begotten God, which takes the place of the Christ, which is the mind of God for them.

00:21:08.000 So it's God, all, or sorry, God, mind, man is the third person.

00:21:14.000 And so at that point, you are supposed to remember that that's who you are and start putting together back to this story so you can climb back up that thing, back up to the top, back up to the undifferentiated all.

00:21:27.000 So the way you do that is by starting to work these contradictions in the world out.

00:21:30.000 Man is the thinking being that can find what appear to be distinctions in the world where the undifferentiated all poured himself out. 0.99

00:21:37.000 The infinite landed in the finite.

00:21:38.000 What would happen if you poured infinite into the finite?

00:21:41.000 It's going to shatter.

00:21:42.000 It's going to blow out.

00:21:43.000 And so what you have is all this kind of divinity trapped within the mundane.

00:21:46.000 And the thinking man understands how to pull it out to get back to the full truth.

00:21:51.000 And when we get back to the full truth, we can understand who we are.

00:21:55.000 Or as sometimes it's said, we know where we came from, what we are, and what we've been flung into.

00:22:02.000 And so when you understand that, you understand that you are the man is the third person of the Godhead.

00:22:08.000 That man can seize the means of his own production to use Marxist language for it and self-begat.

00:22:15.000 Marxism is just an attempt to figure out what the mechanism of that is.

00:22:18.000 And he thought it was economic principles.

00:22:20.000 But you're going to self-begat man as he was meant to be before God, at which point when he becomes self-begotten, he becomes his own Christ.

00:22:29.000 And then at that point, he gets to return to the undifferentiated all. 0.69

00:22:32.000 And so it can get poured into Kabbalah.

00:22:35.000 It can get poured into Christian mysticism.

00:22:37.000 It can get poured into, say, Swabian pietism, which was what Hegel studied.

00:22:42.000 What is that?

00:22:42.000 It is a branch of Lutheranism that was extraordinarily heretical and popular in the Swabian region of southern Germany around the beginning of the 19th century and the previous century before that.

00:22:54.000 Hegel's teachers at the Tübigenstift, which is a famous seminary there, were well known to be wizards.

00:23:02.000 We're talking like Friedrich Uttinger straight up was a wizard.

00:23:07.000 We're talking about Goethe, a wizard.

00:23:10.000 I mean, these guys are Hermeticists who think that they have a better understanding of a process-driven understanding of what it means to be human, what it means to be God.

00:23:22.000 And then what is Hegel created out of this?

00:23:25.000 A phenomenology of spirit.

00:23:27.000 How do we raise ourselves up from our human condition as a phenomenon and get back to a spirit?

00:23:32.000 Hegel was a hermeticist.

00:23:33.000 He was a hermeticist.

00:23:34.000 He was.

00:23:34.000 He was a hermeticist, unambiguously.

00:23:37.000 I've never heard anybody say that.

00:23:38.000 A wonderful book about this that's called Hegel in the Hermetic Tradition by Glenn Alexander McGee.

00:23:43.000 And the first sentence of the book is, Hegel was not a philosopher.

00:23:49.000 And then everything from there follows.

00:23:51.000 Marx, I would wager, I can't prove this, actually plagiarized from parts of what's called the corpus hermeticum, which is the kind of ancient spiritual text of the Hermetic faith.

00:24:04.000 There are these weird parts when you do economic and philosophical manuscripts.

00:24:07.000 You're reading, he's talking about landowners, he's talking about rent, he's talking about money, he's complaining about, you know, people having property.

00:24:13.000 Then all of a sudden, he starts talking about how when you gain consciousness as a socialist, your senses are transformed.

00:24:19.000 Your ear is no longer a normal ear, it's a human ear.

00:24:22.000 Your eye is no longer a normal eye, it's a human eye.

00:24:24.000 And you're like, what in the world is this?

00:24:26.000 Turns out there's a passage in the corpus hermeticum that says that when you receive the nos, the mind of God, your senses are transformed.

00:24:32.000 You no longer have a regular ear.

00:24:34.000 You no longer have a regular eye.

00:24:35.000 You see and hear the world through the mind of God.

00:24:38.000 And it's like, why did, first of all, why did Marx write that?

00:24:42.000 That's weird.

00:24:43.000 It sticks out when you read it.

00:24:44.000 You're like, it's land and he's arguing with Adam Smith and then all this stuff.

00:24:47.000 It's like all this economic stuff.

00:24:48.000 And then all of a sudden, it's, oh, we're transforming what it means to be a human being into something else when you adopt socialism.

00:24:53.000 So if you take, if you take the economic philosophic manuscript weird parts, like in the second manuscript there, and you take out socialist and replace it with received the divine mind, and just read what you get, you get Hermetic teachings extraordinarily plainly, with places where it's so obviously, when I read the Corpus Hermeticum for the first time, all I did was mark it up, make notes, Marx EPM section whatever, you know,

00:25:19.000 Marx critique of Hegel's philosophy of the right section whatever, all the way through.

00:25:25.000 It just stares at you if you're familiar with Marx and are willing to let go of the idea that he was an economic theorist.

00:25:30.000 For some people listening, for part of what you said, which is, well, Charlie, for example, someone would say, well, Charlie, Jesus is not the way.

00:25:40.000 He is a way.

00:25:42.000 That's hermetic.

00:25:43.000 That's the idea.

00:25:44.000 In fact, we're all Jesus.

00:25:46.000 We just haven't realized it yet.

00:25:48.000 And that's what our endeavor is: to realize that we are our own Christ.

00:25:52.000 It's explicit in the corpus Hermeticum.

00:25:54.000 It's explicit that, in fact, you are supposed to, the point of all true spiritual teaching, they say, is to realize that you are the divine and that you are to be, quote, and to become God.

00:26:10.000 God can't know who God is, so God can't know he's God, till man figures out that he's God.

00:26:17.000 And then God will see it in the mind of man.

00:26:20.000 You're blowing my mind because this is so entrenched in everything.

00:26:28.000 Narratives I encounter all the time.

00:26:30.000 You hear it all over the place, everywhere.

00:26:33.000 I was talking to Allie Stuckey about it on her podcast a little bit.

00:26:36.000 I listened to it a week ago or a week and a half ago.

00:26:38.000 Because you mentioned me, and then I was like, oh, that's nice that James mentioned.

00:26:41.000 It was a phenomenal conversation.

00:26:42.000 Yeah, and what did she say?

00:26:43.000 Well, this reminds me of like mom talk, like all these like help mom self-talk.

00:26:46.000 So I think of it in a totally different way.

00:26:48.000 I don't listen to mom talk.

00:26:49.000 I think of it in a totally different community of people that I talk to about religion.

00:26:53.000 Of course.

00:26:54.000 There's this whole idea of transformation, not through the way that the gospel actually speaks about it.

00:27:00.000 So I'm happy to, at a different podcast, tell our audience why this is awful and bad.

00:27:07.000 Why do you think this is awful and bad?

00:27:09.000 Because we're not God.

00:27:11.000 I don't even have to believe in God to know that I'm not God.

00:27:14.000 And when you believe you're God and you start thinking that your goal is to remake the world as you think it was supposed to be, guess what you are? 1.00

00:27:21.000 You're a madman. 1.00

00:27:22.000 And when you have the world being run by madmen, millions of people die. 1.00

00:27:27.000 I just thought of a quote.

00:27:28.000 I would rather have people believe there is no God than believe they are God.

00:27:32.000 It's not wrong. 0.84

00:27:33.000 That's very interesting.

00:27:35.000 And that's what unifies this non-believing.

00:27:39.000 Am I right by saying that?

00:27:40.000 I think that you are because that fundamental disposition of humility is key.

00:27:45.000 When you read the founding documents from the United States and they say God and nature is God, this is what they're actually acknowledging.

00:27:51.000 That you look, you don't even have to believe whether it's Christian or Judeo or whatever.

00:27:54.000 You don't even have to believe this, but you have to recognize that you're humble before something.

00:27:58.000 Yeah, and they went on to say supreme being of the universe.

00:28:00.000 Sure.

00:28:01.000 Divine judge.

00:28:01.000 So they were more clear, but you're correct.

00:28:03.000 Laws of nature and nature is God was.

00:28:03.000 Yeah.

00:28:05.000 That's right.

00:28:06.000 And that's very, very important because what it means is that the fundamental disposition that somebody like you and I share, if we accept that we have different fundamental beliefs religiously, is that we are humble before that which we believe is.

00:28:19.000 Yes.

00:28:20.000 You have a name for it and a description and a book and all of these things.

00:28:24.000 Yes, and a tradition.

00:28:25.000 Yes, of course.

00:28:25.000 And I have, I don't know what it is.

00:28:27.000 I don't know what to call it.

00:28:29.000 I don't make any presumptions, but I am certainly not.

00:28:32.000 But you're not a threat to society at all.

00:28:34.000 You're the opposite.

00:28:34.000 You're a blessing, actually.

00:28:36.000 But to think that you're God, that's messed up, man.

00:28:41.000 There's no other way to put it.

00:28:42.000 But so let's take Oprah Winfrey. 1.00

00:28:44.000 She talks about this crap all the time. 0.99

00:28:45.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:28:46.000 Not blatantly, but she's like, you all have that divine spark within you.

00:28:50.000 Is that the same thing?

00:28:51.000 Or is that like...

00:28:52.000 Yeah, it's the same thing.

00:28:53.000 This is the same thing.

00:28:55.000 The thing is, is the New Age movement, which has infused like all the kind of pop culture, all the pop psychology stuff, all the like corporate training nonsense that a lot of people end up doing.

00:29:07.000 It's all the New Age stuff.

00:29:08.000 It's a lot very Eastern at times, though.

00:29:10.000 Oh, do you know why?

00:29:10.000 Because it rolled out of theosophy.

00:29:12.000 I don't know what that means.

00:29:13.000 Theosophy is a whole weird philosophical religious movement that started in the 1870s or 1860s, maybe with a weird, weird, weird woman named Helena Blavatsky, who was probably just straight up a fraud that went to, she was a British woman, no, wait, German and Russian heritage, went to India, lived in London, created what she called the Theosophical Society, the Wisdom of God Society.

00:29:37.000 Well, that's what it means.

00:29:38.000 And so she visited India and she picked up a lot of this kind of Hindu monist thinking that all the, you know, with the Hindu monism is there is one God, but it appears in three avatars, and each avatar appears in many avatars.

00:29:51.000 And so everything you encounter is an avatar of God.

00:29:53.000 And if you find your way back up to the top, you get back to God.

00:29:55.000 And she brought all this in, and it's just what she wrote is crazy.

00:29:58.000 It's literally where Hitler got his ideas about the Aryan race.

00:30:01.000 It came from India.

00:30:02.000 The Aryan studies. 0.93

00:30:03.000 He did get the swats to Helena Blavatsky.

00:30:06.000 He tilted it slightly.

00:30:08.000 Yes, but this is where it came from.

00:30:10.000 This is where he got it.

00:30:11.000 This is where he got his ideas about the fundamental root races and which ones are superior and why the Aryan race is the best one and why he came up with a race ideology to build that out.

00:30:20.000 And so she had other students.

00:30:22.000 She didn't teach Hitler.

00:30:23.000 Hitler read her stuff. 0.86

00:30:24.000 She was very popular in the late 1800s in Europe.

00:30:28.000 Her theosophical society.

00:30:29.000 So theosophy is this, we would call it new agey now.

00:30:33.000 But what it is, is it's this weird incorporation of the esoteric religions, Hermeticism, Gnosticism, literally just made up stuff into whatever other frame.

00:30:42.000 I'm not ready to say I believe this, but I'm going to really think and pray about it.

00:30:48.000 That Hermeticism is far more dangerous than just like kind of nascent secularism.

00:30:58.000 Of course it is.

00:30:59.000 I'm not ready to say that because I hate secularism.

00:31:02.000 I think it's terrible, right?

00:31:04.000 For a lot of reasons.

00:31:05.000 I will say it.

00:31:06.000 And the reason that I will say it is because it is dialectically driven.

00:31:10.000 The thing we call the dialectic.

00:31:11.000 You can't keep using these words.

00:31:12.000 I know, I'm sorry.

00:31:13.000 But I know what that means.

00:31:14.000 Hegel, the dialectic of Hegel with his phenomenology process, the dialectical materialism, the process of transformation of the world that these guys talk about is dialectic.

00:31:23.000 You could say from Kant that it's thesis, antithesis, synthesis.

00:31:26.000 You could say from Hegel that it's the abstract notion meets its negative within itself, and then you find out the concrete, which is all the greater understanding of the total causes of the thing.

00:31:37.000 This process of transformation really gets cleared up as it works in its hermetic way in Hegel because the middle process isn't antithesis, which is still negative, but it is explicitly just the word negative.

00:31:49.000 Hermeticism is the idea that if we destroy the mundane world, we free the divine.

00:31:55.000 If we destroy the distinctions, we return to the manifestation.

00:31:58.000 That's what Marx was going after by the slavery of everyday work, right?

00:32:04.000 That's right.

00:32:05.000 That's right.

00:32:06.000 There's no distinction between...

00:32:07.000 Are you trying to tell me that Marx consciously was saying when he wrote the manifesto with Engels and Das Kapital that part of abolishing the capitalist order will be getting us to some sort of divine hermetical union?

00:32:20.000 Like, he consciously believed that?

00:32:22.000 I don't know when he was by that point.

00:32:24.000 By the time he's writing the manifesto, which was heavily influenced by Engels, Engels was a member of the communist.

00:32:31.000 He financed the whole thing.

00:32:32.000 Yes, and he was a member of the Communist League, and Marx was brought in, and he was writing his own confession of communist faith.

00:32:40.000 They blended the things to write the manifesto.

00:32:42.000 When Marx wrote economic and philosophic manuscripts in 1844, which is four years before the manifesto, which is the basis of his philosophy on economics and the world, and when he wrote his critique of Hegel's philosophy of the right, especially the introduction to it, because he just quit when he got to the really meaty part of Hegel.

00:32:59.000 He just stopped.

00:33:00.000 He never finished it.

00:33:01.000 It's very long.

00:33:02.000 He just stopped.

00:33:03.000 He bailed out.

00:33:05.000 When he's writing those, he is, I think, unambiguously conscious of the Hermetic principles.

00:33:10.000 I think he thought he was getting rid of the mysticism, that he thought Hegel was all into this wacky spiritual stuff.

00:33:16.000 And he'll, I'm going to make it real.

00:33:17.000 I'm going to put it into practice in the world. 0.98

00:33:19.000 I'm going to get rid of all the mystical crap.

00:33:21.000 But his goal is to create what humanity was always meant to be, which he envisioned, which is a commune. 0.96

00:33:28.000 And it's actually, in a sense, a return to what he thought was returned to the garden.

00:33:33.000 I think Hegel used that language.

00:33:36.000 Hegel was quite clear and explicit about it.

00:33:39.000 About that kind of language.

00:33:40.000 He was a theologian.

00:33:41.000 So this is so fascinating because now I get it.

00:33:44.000 I mean, we try to...

00:33:46.000 I mean it.

00:33:46.000 This is the bottom.

00:33:47.000 Like we dig and dig and dig, and we're like, oh, this guy, oh, that guy, Hegel, Plato, Rousseau, Rousseau, Kant, you know, Spinoza.

00:33:54.000 No, like, actually, this is the best.

00:33:55.000 This is the bottom.

00:33:56.000 Because there's nothing before it.

00:33:57.000 I mean, Hermeticism goes back as far as the river of civilizations.

00:34:01.000 Yes, it's ancient.

00:34:03.000 And it's a goal of transformation through description.

00:34:06.000 I'm going to pin you down here.

00:34:07.000 If you were to be like, okay, describe Hermeticism to a fourth grader.

00:34:12.000 It is, hey, it is a bunch of people who believe that everything is God, including you.

00:34:17.000 You're a small part of a shattered glass mirror of God.

00:34:20.000 Yeah, that's correct.

00:34:21.000 So it's God who wanted to discover himself.

00:34:23.000 Correct.

00:34:24.000 And therefore, by discovering himself, he created a world of many trillions of microns of himself that one day create a mirror where he could see himself.

00:34:34.000 Correct.

00:34:35.000 So it is an attempt for the divine to achieve singularity?

00:34:40.000 Yes.

00:34:41.000 At which point it becomes the all.

00:34:43.000 In fact, they don't talk about atonement like Christians would. 1.00

00:34:46.000 They actually, in a lot of their kind of, especially New Age writing, they add hyphens, at one mint, which the spelling is the same.

00:34:52.000 You just have to add two hyphens.

00:34:53.000 We come back to at one mint with the divine, with the all, with the everything.

00:34:58.000 And so, yes, that's how.

00:35:00.000 What would you say to describe it to a fourth grader?

00:35:02.000 It's a way of believing that you are a part of the giant divine plan, and as you transform the world toward what we call justice, people are going to.

00:35:13.000 This is honestly, in some ways, super comforting because Christianity is so different than this. 1.00

00:35:19.000 Yes, it's extremely...

00:35:21.000 This is why...

00:35:22.000 It's not like that there's many religions.

00:35:23.000 Like, this is the opposite of what I believe.

00:35:25.000 This is right.

00:35:26.000 It becomes very, very easy when you get to the bottom of this to be able to spot it for what it is and to call it out like the great characters like Irenaeus in history who called out the heresy.

00:35:36.000 So when we say paganism, is it similar?

00:35:39.000 Is it has themes of this?

00:35:41.000 That's outside of my ability to answer that question.

00:35:43.000 But this is a definitely when you read the Old Testament and you're like, they're at war with like the war with this philosophy, this ideology, this religion.

00:35:52.000 Yes, because it was widespread, wasn't it?

00:35:54.000 Right.

00:35:55.000 And so the Hermeticists try to claim that theirs is older and that they even taught Moses. 0.57

00:35:59.000 And this is what they always do.

00:36:02.000 They try to claim that.

00:36:03.000 Even though the teachings and the truth claims are different.

00:36:06.000 Correct.

00:36:07.000 What they say is that your truth claim is different only in appearance because you don't know more.

00:36:13.000 You don't know the whole.

00:36:14.000 They know your truth.

00:36:15.000 He only has the piece of the puzzle.

00:36:17.000 You know what?

00:36:17.000 This is like climate change.

00:36:18.000 It's like, no matter what, they're right.

00:36:20.000 Yes, that's it.

00:36:21.000 That's it.

00:36:22.000 That's correct.

00:36:23.000 They're always right.

00:36:24.000 For Nunft and Verstand, we'll do another Hegel. 0.96

00:36:27.000 That's German for Hegel had reason sitting up above understanding, understanding, science, actually figuring out the world.

00:36:32.000 That's low-level stuff.

00:36:34.000 That's the kind of stuff a technician would do.

00:36:36.000 That's not really understanding, having the philosophy.

00:36:39.000 Being a philosopher is really knowing.

00:36:41.000 Having real true reason is really knowing.

00:36:45.000 But what's reason?

00:36:46.000 Hegel's philosophy.

00:36:47.000 Hegel's own philosophy is the thing that's perfect.

00:36:50.000 This is so funny.

00:36:51.000 Where did he get that from?

00:36:52.000 I hate to do it. 0.99

00:36:52.000 We got to throw him right under the bus. 0.99

00:36:54.000 Plato.

00:36:54.000 Plato didn't call them, you know, Wiesenschaft, System der Wiesenschaft, system of science.

00:37:00.000 That's what Hegel called his program.

00:37:02.000 System der Wiesenschaft, system of science.

00:37:04.000 And it has for nunft as reason and for stand as understanding.

00:37:08.000 Verstand, I should say.

00:37:09.000 That's the German. 0.95

00:37:10.000 So that's the hierarchy, right?

00:37:11.000 You have this umbrella of science.

00:37:13.000 And then underneath the umbrella, you have these two levels, right?

00:37:16.000 Reason and understanding.

00:37:19.000 What did Plato have?

00:37:20.000 Scientia.

00:37:21.000 Science.

00:37:22.000 Knowing, right?

00:37:23.000 What did he have in it?

00:37:24.000 Two levels.

00:37:25.000 Epistome over dianoia.

00:37:27.000 Knowledge.

00:37:28.000 And dianoia is the technical knowledge that you use in techni, where then you have the philosopher's knowledge that's episteme.

00:37:34.000 Or epistemology, right?

00:37:35.000 Which is where we get the word epistemology, which is never wrong.

00:37:39.000 And the true science is that you have the higher reason that the philosophers have that's never wrong, that's informed by and gets to direct the lower level understanding, which is why it's the difference between in modern language, it's science versus the science.

00:37:55.000 Gnosticism.

00:37:56.000 It's Gnostic. 0.97

00:37:58.000 It's believing that you have had an encounter with the divine mind and inherited some of its wisdom and that other people have not.

00:38:05.000 And that justifies everything they do.

00:38:07.000 That's why they're better than you.

00:38:08.000 They know how to raise your kids better than you do.

00:38:10.000 This is Philosopher King stuff.

00:38:12.000 This is Philosopher King stuff.

00:38:13.000 That's correct.

00:38:14.000 And so this is, in the Corpus Remeticum, they actually explain that when you receive NOS, it gives you, when you receive a piece of knowledge, the word agnostic has no s in it.

00:38:26.000 The divine divine mind.

00:38:29.000 When you receive nos, you may still do evil like murder or adultery, but you get to avoid evil because you know why it's for the greater good or whatever else.

00:38:39.000 So most Eastern religions have elements of this, but they're different.

00:38:43.000 I mean, Buddhist teaching wouldn't argue that, I don't know what, I don't know the Buddhist creation story, but they wouldn't argue that we're all like mini gods.

00:38:55.000 They would argue that you are a spiritual being.

00:38:57.000 The temporal, the physical is bad.

00:39:00.000 You must strip yourself of that, and then you could ascend towards some form of nirvana.

00:39:03.000 Sure, right.

00:39:04.000 Now, actually, if people want to follow the spiritual paths, I believe in religious liberty, and so I'm like, no, of course.

00:39:09.000 But it's when you start to believe that we all have to share the same mind for it to work.

00:39:14.000 When your interpretation is that we have to have the same idea about what society is supposed to look like, which just so happens to be what the experts or the stakeholders or whatever have decided.

00:39:23.000 But Hegel argued this is where this is where some audience members have to say, hold on a second, wait.

00:39:27.000 Then how are you going to sort that out?

00:39:29.000 Hegel argued it'll inevitably sort itself out.

00:39:31.000 That's right.

00:39:32.000 It's the inevitable process of history.

00:39:34.000 The machine of history is grinding it down to that point.

00:39:38.000 And then the people who have taken up this process will have the fruits of having transformed themselves and being available to re-enter to the whole.

00:39:48.000 And the people who haven't will be destroyed.

00:39:50.000 History will have used people and then discarded them, which is what he said.

00:39:55.000 It is.

00:39:56.000 Okay, so how many of the people in charge...

00:39:58.000 So you can use Madonna as an example.

00:40:00.000 They end up.

00:40:01.000 So Hermeticism can very quickly become Luciferianism.

00:40:06.000 Yes.

00:40:07.000 Absolutely.

00:40:08.000 Well, because you think that you've, I mean, what is Lucifer?

00:40:11.000 Lucifer's a lightbringer.

00:40:12.000 What's he doing?

00:40:12.000 He's bringing a piece of the...

00:40:13.000 I don't think he's a lightbringer.

00:40:14.000 But that's what the name means, right?

00:40:16.000 And so that's what they would describe it as, right?

00:40:19.000 That's what they think, is that Lucifer brought a piece of the divine wisdom to them.

00:40:25.000 That's what he did.

00:40:27.000 He brought a piece of divine wisdom to them.

00:40:30.000 What is it in the story in the garden?

00:40:32.000 Lucifer is a snake, tells Eve, if you eat this fruit, God hath not said, you know, the whole thing.

00:40:39.000 You're going to get divine wisdom.

00:40:40.000 God said, yes.

00:40:40.000 And you're going to get divine wisdom out of it.

00:40:42.000 You get a piece of the mind of God.

00:40:43.000 Knowledge of right and wrong.

00:40:45.000 And so you get a piece of the mind of God if you get into this.

00:40:48.000 So it's absolutely very likely to become Luciferian.

00:40:52.000 I literally don't care if somebody wants to go be an ascetic and they think that they're going to ascend to another plane of existence and that's their spiritual path and if it's rewarding for them and if it's like something they're doing as an individual, like I don't care.

00:41:03.000 But when you start thinking, because a lot of those guys think that by their ascension and their prayer or whatever, they're bringing light to all of humanity just by kind of magic, spiritual magic.

00:41:12.000 Fine, whatever.

00:41:14.000 You do you in that sense.

00:41:15.000 I don't care.

00:41:16.000 But when you start thinking, well, it's only going to work if we all do it together, you're in a bad place.

00:41:22.000 You're in a bad, bad place.

00:41:24.000 In Marxism, it's not that man becomes God.

00:41:26.000 It's that capital M man becomes God.

00:41:28.000 We all become God together or it never happens.

00:41:31.000 Mankind becomes God.

00:41:32.000 Exactly.

00:41:33.000 Exactly.

00:41:34.000 It's all or it never goes insane.

00:41:37.000 And so how many of the top people know this?

00:41:39.000 I don't know.

00:41:40.000 I don't know.

00:41:41.000 It's I have no idea.

00:41:43.000 You can't find an academic that would say any of this stuff about Marx.

00:41:47.000 You can find them that will say it about Hegel.

00:41:51.000 Obviously, these people have read this stuff.

00:41:55.000 And part.

00:41:55.000 So Hegel, I always describe Hegel as having a contribution to American politics or whatever is through history.

00:42:08.000 Meaning that history has an arc, it has a destination.

00:42:12.000 That's right.

00:42:13.000 It has an end point.

00:42:14.000 Hegel thought that endpoint would be the hive mind of humanity, like the creation of Borg.

00:42:21.000 Hegel thought that there would just be the removal of distinctions that cause warring factions, but that war and distinction and everything is necessary to grind the gears of the sky.

00:42:31.000 There's no evidence to support any of this. 0.94

00:42:33.000 This is so ridiculous.

00:42:34.000 Marx, however, fully believed that there would be a paradise in which the only work people do is work that they spontaneously want to do, that nobody would have to work.

00:42:43.000 This is one of the reasons I jokingly, half-jokingly, say that Marxism can never work, because it's literally a philosophy based on the idea, what's its end goal?

00:42:50.000 Nobody works.

00:42:51.000 So what do you expect that somebody who's subscribed to this philosophy in life is going to do?

00:42:56.000 Not want to work, right?

00:42:57.000 So if nobody works, nothing's going to work.

00:43:00.000 If you're purely utilitarian, it's an argument against even things like prostitution because, well, some people can do it, but everybody can't because somebody's got to put food on the table to be able to pay the person, right?

00:43:09.000 This is what's so critical.

00:43:10.000 It just came to me.

00:43:11.000 It's like, let's get out of the clouds.

00:43:12.000 So now we know what they want.

00:43:13.000 They want to create this strange multi-billion person collective consciousness.

00:43:20.000 So then you got to do it.

00:43:22.000 Yeah.

00:43:23.000 And we're living through the beginning stages of them trying to do it.

00:43:26.000 Yeah, and brainwashing people hasn't taken very well.

00:43:30.000 The Soviets couldn't brainwash people hard enough. 0.93

00:43:32.000 They couldn't torture people into it.

00:43:34.000 That didn't work.

00:43:36.000 The Chinese did a somewhat better job.

00:43:38.000 Mao had his prisons, his brainwashing prisons were somewhat more effective, but it turns out you can't actually transform.

00:43:43.000 The human mind isn't as malleable as they believe it is.

00:43:46.000 You can't actually transform people into that.

00:43:49.000 Everybody having the so-called people's perspective, where you can't identify who the people are, except that it's the people who agree with the government.

00:43:55.000 I get sent stuff all the time.

00:43:56.000 We have an amazing audience, but I got a lot.

00:43:58.000 There's some wackadoodles out there.

00:44:00.000 Sure.

00:44:01.000 And somebody sent me something.

00:44:02.000 I remember watching this in high school.

00:44:06.000 The secret.

00:44:07.000 Yeah, the secret.

00:44:07.000 That's right.

00:44:09.000 For people that don't know the secret, it's have you guys seen the secret?

00:44:14.000 You've seen the secret?

00:44:16.000 Blake's seen the secret, right?

00:44:18.000 Yeah.

00:44:18.000 It's so corny, but The Secret is this film where they say, I figured everything out and you just speak it into existence and it happens.

00:44:27.000 Yeah.

00:44:27.000 Wizardry.

00:44:29.000 That's literally the definition of sorcery.

00:44:31.000 Why is that sorcery?

00:44:32.000 That's what the definition is.

00:44:33.000 I'm like, Charlie, you're like, what does this word mean?

00:44:36.000 And I'm like, well, you gave me the definition.

00:44:37.000 We're playing Jeopardy.

00:44:38.000 You're like, you know, here's the definition.

00:44:41.000 And I said, you know, that which thinks they could speak it, the known and the unknown.

00:44:45.000 The unknown and the known.

00:44:46.000 I'm sorry.

00:44:47.000 Yeah, that's right.

00:44:47.000 It's the ability to cast into the future that which you wish to see and to make it come into being.

00:44:52.000 That's really profound, man.

00:44:54.000 It's what's going on.

00:44:55.000 And so we could get into the hermetic principles and say, well, you know, we talk people talk about vibes and the law of attraction.

00:45:01.000 I don't know what to say.

00:45:02.000 What do you mean by I hear about this all the time?

00:45:04.000 Like, come on, it's a vibe.

00:45:05.000 In the hermetic, I mean, in the everyday culture, it doesn't matter much, right? 0.96

00:45:09.000 We don't have to get like, we don't have to go around like whacking people for saying, you know, we were vibing together. 1.00

00:45:13.000 We had a guy stupid. 1.00

00:45:14.000 Yeah, no. 1.00

00:45:15.000 They're just saying we were getting along.

00:45:17.000 They were saying we were getting along.

00:45:18.000 But with the law of attraction or the secret or whatever, what we're talking about is the idea is the principle of vibration is everything vibrates.

00:45:24.000 This is in their literature.

00:45:26.000 And that if you match vibrations.

00:45:27.000 There is a truth to that.

00:45:29.000 There is, but that's beside the point.

00:45:31.000 It's that if you psychically match the vibrations, that which matches comes together.

00:45:35.000 So if I change my vibrations, you'll change your vibrations and you'll agree with me.

00:45:39.000 Or if I change my vibration to being a kind of person who deserves to have a BMW, I'll get one.

00:45:43.000 It sounds nuts.

00:45:44.000 There's no scientific evidence for this, right?

00:45:46.000 No.

00:45:47.000 Okay.

00:45:47.000 No, it's preposterous.

00:45:49.000 It doesn't work.

00:45:50.000 No, you can't will things into being that way.

00:45:53.000 You can have a vision for what you want to create and do the hard work to figure out how to make it, but that's a different thing.

00:45:57.000 That's the kind of thing that you read in Genesis 4.

00:46:01.000 Geez, I'm sorry.

00:46:01.000 I just want everyone to appreciate how profound this conversation is.

00:46:05.000 Because here's someone who is a serious evangelical religious Bible-believing Christian and an agnostic formerly with the new atheist movement that is now dialoguing about the threat of the religion of hermeticism.

00:46:23.000 That's right.

00:46:24.000 That's right.

00:46:25.000 And we're both talking about how material reality needs to anchor our existence.

00:46:31.000 This is the secret sauce of the West, Charlie.

00:46:33.000 What has made the West the most successful civilization in history?

00:46:36.000 What has been that?

00:46:38.000 It's its ability to blend faith and reason in a productive way.

00:46:42.000 I think that's really right.

00:46:44.000 Not wizardry.

00:46:46.000 It boxes out wizardry because faith is humble.

00:46:49.000 And it has to keep reason humble or which also, too, though, is that it's not just faith because you have faith in hermeticism.

00:46:57.000 This is where Christianity and Judaism, Christianity views the natural world as valid but not divine. 0.91

00:47:05.000 Yes.

00:47:06.000 Therefore, it's there for us, the human.

00:47:09.000 And materialists, someone in reason enlightenment would say, oh, yeah, it's the natural world, and we want to be able to use it.

00:47:09.000 Right.

00:47:15.000 Yeah.

00:47:16.000 We can be partners.

00:47:17.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:47:18.000 But a hermeticist, or I don't know, a pagan climate change person.

00:47:23.000 We have to transform it into what it was meant to be.

00:47:25.000 Well, how do you know what it's meant to be?

00:47:27.000 Well, God told me.

00:47:28.000 But they don't explicitly say it that way.

00:47:30.000 But that's what the answer is, because they believe that they've had a glimpse of the divine mind.

00:47:34.000 In the divine mind of humanity, or of the earth, there is no pollution.

00:47:38.000 We have a totally managed population.

00:47:39.000 Everything's sustainable.

00:47:41.000 Nobody's fighting.

00:47:41.000 Everything's inclusive.

00:47:43.000 All of it falls into place.

00:47:44.000 So what I'm realizing is when I say that Bill Gates wants to be God, let's pretend Bill Gates believes in this stuff.

00:47:50.000 I don't know.

00:47:51.000 But no, no, no.

00:47:53.000 He actually thinks he's already God.

00:47:55.000 Yeah.

00:47:55.000 Or at least that he's had.

00:47:57.000 Closer to the divine mind.

00:47:58.000 Yeah, he's had like a tap plugged in that's told him how things are supposed to be.

00:48:03.000 And they do want to ask.

00:48:05.000 Which is the people that mock the Pope.

00:48:07.000 Right.

00:48:07.000 Well.

00:48:08.000 Do you know what I mean?

00:48:08.000 Like that, because that's their big thing.

00:48:10.000 It's like, oh, but you think that you hear from God?

00:48:12.000 Meanwhile, I'm, you know, tied into.

00:48:16.000 And I don't want to quibble over faith because I agreed with everything you said, but I want to make it very clear that the difference between faith and gnosis, Gnosticism, is that they don't need faith.

00:48:27.000 They know.

00:48:29.000 They know.

00:48:29.000 They believe they know the true nature of reality.

00:48:32.000 They have deluded themselves into believing.

00:48:34.000 And that's not the same as confidence in what we have not seen.

00:48:38.000 But is Hermeticism and Gnosticism basically the same thing?

00:48:41.000 Are they interchangeable?

00:48:43.000 It's complicated.

00:48:44.000 No, and yes, and no.

00:48:46.000 Gnosticism actually refers to three, at least three distinct things.

00:48:50.000 And I don't mean like different sects like the Valentinians or the Manichians or the, you know, the Sethians or whatever.

00:48:57.000 And that's not what I'm talking about.

00:48:58.000 There is this broader like creation story orientation toward what the universe is called Gnosticism.

00:49:05.000 It uses a concept called Gnosis, which we could say is Gnostic with a lowercase G.

00:49:10.000 And then the Christian cults that picked it up in the first and second centuries that Irenaeus are also called Gnosticism. 0.79

00:49:15.000 And there was a council, not the Council of Nicaea, there was a different council where they repudiated Gnosticism.

00:49:21.000 Irenaeus was responsible for that huge repudiation.

00:49:24.000 He very famously.

00:49:26.000 And they later ended up digging up his grave and dancing in the street with his bones to desecrate it in the lead up to the French Revolution.

00:49:35.000 Why?

00:49:36.000 Because anybody's guess, right?

00:49:39.000 Why would they have to get rid of the guy who stamped out Gnosticism?

00:49:42.000 Anybody's guess.

00:49:44.000 Yeah, this is a long, continuous line.

00:49:46.000 So you think that the French Revolution was Gnostic in nature?

00:49:50.000 Absolutely.

00:49:50.000 And hermetic.

00:49:51.000 Robespear wasn't Gnostic?

00:49:53.000 They all were.

00:49:53.000 They knew what the correct society was supposed to look like, and they're going to force everybody to live in it and say it's unsafe if people don't.

00:49:59.000 Public safety was the department that went around and kill everybody.

00:50:02.000 Including Robespear, eventually.

00:50:03.000 Eventually.

00:50:03.000 That's right.

00:50:04.000 Maximilian Robespear killed by his own people.

00:50:06.000 I mean, Rousseau explicitly said that his goal was to figure out he hated city life.

00:50:11.000 Yes.

00:50:11.000 He hated the confines of civilization.

00:50:13.000 The primitive over the civilized, the infant over the adult.

00:50:16.000 And what did he want to make with it?

00:50:17.000 The savage made to live in cities, as he phrased it.

00:50:20.000 What is that?

00:50:21.000 That's a dialectical synthesis.

00:50:22.000 He spends the rest of his life in the world.

00:50:24.000 That's Gnosticism.

00:50:24.000 That's Gnosis.

00:50:25.000 Why?

00:50:26.000 That's the definition of Gnosticism.

00:50:28.000 So Gnosticism, we talked about Hermeticism as an ancient mystery faith.

00:50:32.000 A voodoo faith. 0.98

00:50:33.000 Yeah, a voodoo faith. 0.99

00:50:34.000 We didn't talk about Gnosticism.

00:50:36.000 It has a different mythology, a different understanding.

00:50:38.000 Their belief is that there is an all-pervasive, perfectly good God, all behind everything.

00:50:43.000 But if we frame it, say, with the Christian story, the God that's depicted in Genesis is actually not that perfect being.

00:50:51.000 It is instead what they call the demiurge, which comes from the Greek demiurgos, which means artisan or builder, the builder of the world.

00:50:59.000 And so that turns out, because it was created through, in their mythology, through a sin, a sin, it turns out, of the goddess of wisdom, Sophia, that arose from...

00:51:09.000 Sophos, Sophia.

00:51:10.000 Yes.

00:51:11.000 And which is the female diametric opposition to Logos.

00:51:17.000 So there's the undifferentiated original God.

00:51:19.000 That God has a thought in their mythology.

00:51:22.000 In that mythology, God exists in a realm called the Pleroma, which is the plentiful, the plenatory.

00:51:29.000 Yeah.

00:51:29.000 The Pleroma.

00:51:30.000 So anything thought there becomes, is the rule.

00:51:33.000 And so God had a thought.

00:51:34.000 So the Logos and the Sophia come into being.

00:51:37.000 Sophia has a thought, decides she wants to create like God, but that's a sin.

00:51:41.000 It's not her domain.

00:51:42.000 And so an artist, but she thought it, so it comes into being.

00:51:45.000 And the artisan, the demiurge or demiurgos, comes in, but because it was born in the sin of wisdom, or the fall from wisdom, if you want, it's evil.

00:51:55.000 And so it creates being itself as a prison.

00:51:59.000 And so man is born free, but everywhere he's in chains.

00:52:02.000 He spends the rest of his life in chains.

00:52:03.000 Or I was born in the wrong body, and I have to throw it off.

00:52:10.000 Or, or I was born a woman.

00:52:15.000 I didn't ask to be born a woman. 0.99

00:52:17.000 I therefore was born with a womb and the capacity to become pregnant.

00:52:20.000 And if I have the capacity to become pregnant, I'm imprisoned in the possibility of throwing away my own life to have to raise another, which I didn't ask for at birth. 0.61

00:52:30.000 It is a Gnostic condition that drives not all, I won't say all, but much of the push for especially the push where you'll see it from like Planned Parenthood for abortion. 0.70

00:52:38.000 A lot of that rhetoric, when I hear the Democrats talk about how a woman shouldn't be chained to a pregnancy, Gnosticism, which believes that you are cast into a prison of being that you didn't ask to be in, that makes you suffer.

00:52:52.000 But if you have the knowledge of the true divine behind the curtain, then you can escape the prison, or you can help everybody escape the prison.

00:53:01.000 So to summarize this, which is so profound, let me do one more.

00:53:05.000 Please.

00:53:05.000 Marx.

00:53:07.000 Marx doesn't believe in a God, so he says, right?

00:53:11.000 But he believes that society is created through what?

00:53:15.000 Through the people who own the means of production.

00:53:18.000 And so you have a bourgeoisie becomes a demiurgic power that controls the structure of reality and causes everybody else to be in a prison of being, and they alone, like the God in Genesis, get to reap the fruits.

00:53:32.000 So what are you supposed to do?

00:53:34.000 You're supposed to band together, realize this is the truth as the proletariat, and overthrow that thing by seizing the means of production of man, society, and nature. 0.96

00:53:44.000 Marx, all of his Hermeticism, even though Hermeticism and Gnosticism, and this is what people are going to say, they're not the same.

00:53:49.000 James is mixing them.

00:53:50.000 No, I'm not mixing them.

00:53:51.000 Hegel mixed them.

00:53:53.000 Hegel hammered them together into one philosophy.

00:53:56.000 Marx made it even more Gnostic than Hegel did.

00:53:58.000 Marx was an angry, bitter Gnostic who hated being and wanted to destroy it. 0.75

00:54:05.000 And he uses Hermetic tools.

00:54:07.000 So Gnosticism becomes a motivation, and Hermeticism becomes the mechanism, the dialectical destruction, the creation through negativity or negation.

00:54:16.000 Creation through negation is their magic. 1.00

00:54:19.000 Think of how stupid that is. 1.00

00:54:21.000 You're like, why can't it work? 1.00

00:54:22.000 I know you're like feeding me softballs, but seriously, creation through negation.

00:54:27.000 How is that supposed to work?

00:54:28.000 It's pure destruction.

00:54:30.000 James, I visit a lot of churches, and I talk to, I have not heard a single pastor understand this, a single Christian theologian or thinker.

00:54:38.000 Oh, Fallon does.

00:54:40.000 That's because I told him.

00:54:42.000 This one's a breakthrough.

00:54:43.000 I think I'm this.

00:54:44.000 I didn't, I'm not the only person who's ever said this.

00:54:45.000 Eric Foglin talks about, this is a philosopher.

00:54:48.000 He's in the 50s.

00:54:50.000 He wrote a bunch about Marx being a Gnostic.

00:54:53.000 You have, like I said, Glenn Alexander McGee writes Hegel and the Hermeticism.

00:54:56.000 This is pioneer work, man.

00:54:57.000 This is green space.

00:54:58.000 This is, yes, very.

00:55:00.000 And it's so fast to explain.

00:55:02.000 This is deeper than the CRT work you've done and all that.

00:55:05.000 And you don't have to know this.

00:55:07.000 Like, you don't have to go to the church.

00:55:09.000 It's in, it's a mentality.

00:55:11.000 It's a way of thinking about the world.

00:55:12.000 Both Gnosticism and Hermeticism are ways of thinking about the world.

00:55:15.000 It's a framework.

00:55:16.000 It's a system.

00:55:17.000 That's right.

00:55:18.000 It's a matrix.

00:55:18.000 It's a system.

00:55:19.000 It's an algorithm, right?

00:55:21.000 It's a way to input information. 1.00

00:55:23.000 So your average feminist railing about abortion or Democratic congresswoman or whatever doesn't have to know any of this to be able to reproduce the exact mindset, the exact procedural thought. 0.93

00:55:23.000 Correct. 0.93

00:55:37.000 So now what you're telling me is in an unexpected development, non-woke materialists.

00:55:46.000 I don't mean that negatively or pejorative.

00:55:49.000 I mean, I consider you to be a materialist unless you have a different label, right?

00:55:52.000 No, it's fine.

00:55:53.000 And Christians need to be partners to abolish this voodoo. 1.00

00:55:59.000 That's right.

00:55:59.000 That's what this is.

00:56:00.000 This is like creepy, weird, sorcery wizard, like Harry Potter stuff.

00:56:05.000 It's reason and faith against sorcery.

00:56:07.000 And we can't win unless we're together.

00:56:10.000 I've never heard anybody say that.

00:56:11.000 It's that simple, though.

00:56:15.000 It's wizards.

00:56:17.000 But it is like Harry Potter.

00:56:19.000 It's more like Dermstrang, I guess, that dark wizard one or whatever. 0.94

00:56:21.000 We're getting in the weeds, though.

00:56:22.000 But it's reason and faith have to be working in harmony with one another.

00:56:27.000 Faith has to stand underneath reason.

00:56:29.000 We have to believe that the world is ordered and that it's not just going to go willy-nilly.

00:56:33.000 We do.

00:56:34.000 Exactly.

00:56:35.000 And we believe there's a reason for that order.

00:56:37.000 Reason has to be able to check faith.

00:56:39.000 Where if, you know, you came in here and you told me you're reading your Bible and you had this idea, and I'm like, okay, that's okay.

00:56:43.000 But then if you came in and told me that, you know, God spoke to you last night and he talked through a hairdryer or whatever, I'm going to say, hold on, Charlie, you know, that's.

00:56:51.000 And I believe he could for the rest of it.

00:56:53.000 Right.

00:56:53.000 Or if somebody stands up and he's, you know, I've had the revelation.

00:56:57.000 Come join my cult.

00:56:58.000 Share your wives, you know, or whatever else.

00:57:00.000 This has happened again and again and again.

00:57:02.000 That reason's going to be like, wait a minute, no.

00:57:04.000 Yes.

00:57:05.000 Right.

00:57:05.000 But at the same time, we're going to check reason if reason says, hey, we can change the world however we want.

00:57:15.000 Or if reason were to say, who needs objective morality?

00:57:21.000 Yes, it has to be checked.

00:57:22.000 It has to be checked.

00:57:23.000 Reason unchecked goes into the kind of horrors we associate with the terrors of the 20th century.

00:57:29.000 Yes.

00:57:30.000 Reason alone is not enough to be able to govern yourself.

00:57:33.000 Right, exactly.

00:57:33.000 Faith unchecked goes nuts.

00:57:36.000 I tend to agree with that.

00:57:37.000 They have to work together.

00:57:39.000 Not in some weird dialogue.

00:57:40.000 Because in Christianity, we believe reason is a gift from the Lord, and Isaiah says that.

00:57:45.000 So, but this is the ballgame, man.

00:57:48.000 I mean, the World Economic Forum is a bunch of wizards.

00:57:50.000 That's correct.

00:57:52.000 It's the Wizard Economic Forum is what it is.

00:57:54.000 They're a bunch of wizards. 1.00

00:57:55.000 And the United Nations is all steeped in this crap. 1.00

00:57:59.000 The United Nations, that's a whole other podcast. 0.99

00:58:02.000 If you want to know how deep into the occult the UN is, I like couldn't believe it when I started to figure it out.

00:58:07.000 You believe the UN is deep into the occult?

00:58:09.000 Okay, remember I mentioned Helena Blavatsky?

00:58:11.000 Yeah, I don't know who that is.

00:58:12.000 That's the theosophical.

00:58:15.000 So one of her students, yeah, Hitler read her stuff, creates his race ideology, the whole thing.

00:58:19.000 Well, she also trained Margaret Sanger.

00:58:22.000 Eugenicist who founded Planned Parenthood.

00:58:23.000 Correct.

00:58:24.000 She also trained Annie Bessant, the Fabian socialist.

00:58:27.000 She also trained a woman named Alice Bailey.

00:58:29.000 Alice Bailey in 1922 created, started writing these weird esoteric books of New Age theosophy, of wizardry, occultism.

00:58:40.000 She called it a cult.

00:58:41.000 So I'm not putting words in her mouth.

00:58:43.000 She calls it the occult over and over again in her books.

00:58:45.000 I've read some of her books. 0.99

00:58:47.000 They're nuts.

00:58:48.000 And so she writes this stuff in the 20s. 0.96

00:58:49.000 In 1922, nobody's publishing our books.

00:58:51.000 So she creates her own publishing company.

00:58:52.000 What does she call it? 0.99

00:58:53.000 The Lucifer Publishing Company.

00:58:55.000 Turns out that that wasn't such a good name.

00:58:57.000 So in 1924, she renames it to the Lucifer, or sorry, the Lucius, I guess they pronounced it, L-U-C-I-S Publishing Company.

00:59:06.000 They reincorporate as a trust to protect the money because the Ford Foundation, the Rockefeller Foundation are dumping money into this thing because she says they are.

00:59:13.000 Protect the money, they reinform as a trust called the Lucius Trust, L-U-C-I-S Trust.

00:59:18.000 Go to luciest trust.org, click on contact, see where their office building is.

00:59:25.000 866 United Nations Plaza.

00:59:27.000 It's the only religious organization to have an office in the United Nations building.

00:59:32.000 The guy who created UNESCO working for them was deep into Alice Bailey's work.

00:59:38.000 Lots of weird UN ties.

00:59:40.000 They have a temple or a meditation room, they call it, in the UN building in New York City that's 33 feet long, which is an auspicious number.

00:59:49.000 It's 18 feet square at the entrance and six feet square at the far end, shaped like a pyramid laying on its side with a six-ton iron altar that supposedly connects to the magnetic field lines of the earth under New York City.

01:00:01.000 And it's the only religious space in the UN building.

01:00:03.000 Why is that?

01:00:04.000 These are easily verifiable facts.

01:00:06.000 I'm not making stuff up.

01:00:07.000 It's on their websites.

01:00:09.000 They're proud of these things.

01:00:10.000 These are not things that I picked up off of conspiracy sites.

01:00:13.000 If you don't believe me, type in luciustrust.org, click on contact, see what address it gives.

01:00:19.000 866 United Nations Plaza.

01:00:23.000 What's this program?

01:00:24.000 To build a unified world with a single world government to raise global citizens who are pursuing a sustainable and inclusive world.

01:00:33.000 So they're going to remake nature and remake man and remake society. 0.90

01:00:39.000 It fits too tightly.

01:00:40.000 It's uncomfortable.

01:00:42.000 I can't say that they're occultist or is based on occultism, but I can't explain that either.

01:00:47.000 Why is that the case?

01:00:49.000 Why is the UN and the World Economic Forum, these wizard organizations, or at least the World Economic Forum is an unabashedly wizard organization? 0.96

01:00:57.000 Why are they so tightly together?

01:00:59.000 And why are these things so lined up and happening?

01:01:02.000 It demands an explanation.

01:01:04.000 I've been very stressed out since I discovered this.

01:01:06.000 You know, you even recognize, you're like, James, you look like you're a little stressed out.

01:01:11.000 I discovered this in late September because I started chasing the rabbit hole of where social emotional learning comes from in the school.

01:01:17.000 And it comes from a place called the Fetzer Institute.

01:01:19.000 And John Fetzer, who founded it, was all into New Age stuff, including Alice Bailey.

01:01:23.000 And I traced it backwards and then was like, oh, crap, why is this at the UN?

01:01:27.000 Why is the Lucius Trust the primary publisher for the United Nations printed materials?

01:01:31.000 Why is that the case?

01:01:32.000 The Lucifer Publishing Company was its original name.

01:01:37.000 Why?

01:01:37.000 Is this the case?

01:01:38.000 This is verifiable in five minutes with a Google search.

01:01:40.000 Google hasn't even hidden it.

01:01:42.000 It's under Wikipedia.

01:01:45.000 This is deep stuff.

01:01:47.000 It's whack.

01:01:48.000 I don't know a better word.

01:01:49.000 It's wizards, maybe.

01:01:51.000 And I'm like, this is it.

01:01:52.000 When you understand, if you read the Hermeticum or you learn the Gnostic fundamental belief about being itself, being a prison that has to be destroyed so you can escape at all, it's like, oh, wow, this is everything. 0.74

01:02:05.000 This is how they work.

01:02:07.000 How do we beat it?

01:02:08.000 Expose it.

01:02:10.000 Everybody, when they understand what it is, I mean, he got the spacesuit.

01:02:15.000 Maybe it's a wizard's robe, you know?

01:02:17.000 Maybe we should start calling it a wizard's robe instead of a spacesuit.

01:02:20.000 But no, it's like we have to.

01:02:23.000 What we have to do is expose that what it is is not based in reality.

01:02:27.000 Rather, it's based into a because people, when they understand what it is, most people are not going to go.

01:02:32.000 Well, this is something Bogosian would always say that he used to do to try to spread atheism, which I don't support.

01:02:38.000 The more reasonable person in the room wins.

01:02:41.000 Well, yes.

01:02:41.000 And when you show these people to be people who are projecting completely unreasonable against reason, they claim reason for themselves, but it's their own special saucer that's fake.

01:02:54.000 And so you expose this because what they depend wholly upon, they have two things that they can use to beat us.

01:03:02.000 They only have two.

01:03:03.000 It's this simple.

01:03:04.000 They have our trust and they have force.

01:03:07.000 They might have enough force.

01:03:08.000 I don't know.

01:03:09.000 But that's a test that hopefully we never come to.

01:03:12.000 In the meantime, they depend on our trust.

01:03:15.000 They depend on people saying, what's so bad about the, you know, what if...

01:03:18.000 To be a global citizen of the world.

01:03:20.000 What's so good?

01:03:20.000 That's great.

01:03:21.000 We want to help life expectancy in Nairobi.

01:03:25.000 Don't you think that's just probably...

01:03:27.000 They couldn't possibly be that, you know, into that bad stuff.

01:03:31.000 They depend on that trust.

01:03:32.000 They take advantage of trust.

01:03:34.000 I might loop back to scripture then.

01:03:37.000 What kind of a character might do that?

01:03:40.000 What are the names that are given?

01:03:41.000 I know they're different words in the original, but what are the names for given for the devil?

01:03:46.000 Well, Satan literally means prosecutor.

01:03:48.000 That's right.

01:03:49.000 So what do they do?

01:03:50.000 They go around and accuse everybody of everything.

01:03:52.000 Well, that's right.

01:03:52.000 The accuser is what it means.

01:03:54.000 Yes.

01:03:55.000 But, I mean, Satan in the New Testament has much more vividly described.

01:04:00.000 Yes. 0.66

01:04:00.000 Well, father of lies, the servant. 0.66

01:04:02.000 Yes. 0.99

01:04:03.000 Serpent.

01:04:04.000 Totally going to go ahead and deceive people.

01:04:06.000 Prince of this world, the king of this world, is called by Paul.

01:04:10.000 That's right, because they think that this world is a thing that they're supposed to transform into heaven.

01:04:15.000 It's the kingdom.

01:04:18.000 What's so interesting is that Christian theology versus some of these other faiths is diametrically opposed to this.

01:04:28.000 And any theologian who has his eyes open to this will be able to pick it apart or be exposed to somebody who's just a faithful person.

01:04:32.000 Or just with his jaw open and be like, oh, now I get it.

01:04:34.000 That's right.

01:04:35.000 So they're going to be clear-eyed, and then they're going to be able to articulate the arguments.

01:04:38.000 You're asking how to beat it.

01:04:38.000 It's going to happen once people see it.

01:04:40.000 And then what you're also going to see is which ones are snakes.

01:04:44.000 We're going to find out, I think, in the next few months, if this conversation continues, not just between us.

01:04:48.000 We're going to make it.

01:04:49.000 We're going to find out very quickly how many people that have been posing as theologians are actually into wizardry because they're going to defend it like crazy.

01:04:57.000 So, I mean, I think of someone like Rick Warren.

01:05:01.000 He's a big friend of the WEF, isn't he?

01:05:05.000 Yeah, I mean, I texted with him.

01:05:06.000 He denies being a globalist, but we'll find out.

01:05:09.000 Well, we'll see what he thinks about all the hermetic and Gnostic stuff.

01:05:11.000 What he's probably going to do is call the people who say any of this, me, for example, maybe you, if you start talking about it.

01:05:17.000 Oh, I would.

01:05:18.000 No, we're Gnostics.

01:05:19.000 You just watch.

01:05:20.000 That's what they're going to say.

01:05:21.000 We're the Gnostics.

01:05:23.000 We're claiming to know something about them that they didn't, you know, we're Gnostics. 0.99

01:05:27.000 That's going to be the same stupid deny attack reverse of world. 0.98

01:05:31.000 It's not happening, but it's good that it is. 1.00

01:05:33.000 Exactly.

01:05:35.000 That's exactly right.

01:05:36.000 And maybe it's not that bad if we were going to try to actually use some of those principles to make something better.

01:05:41.000 Maybe Christ really is just a figure among many that we could aspire to become for ourselves.

01:05:46.000 You're going to start to hear that kind of language to defend themselves.

01:05:50.000 This is a dangerous conversation, Charlie.

01:05:53.000 Yeah.

01:05:55.000 And it's not just faith.

01:05:58.000 We have wizards posing as scientists all over the place, too.

01:06:02.000 We have wizards everywhere.

01:06:04.000 And the sad part is that a lot of them, especially, I think, academic scientist types, don't have the slightest idea that they've bought into a corrupted form of science that's more in line with what Hegel calls science than what actually science should be, which would be more Aristotelian or Aquinian.

01:06:20.000 Aristotle's my man.

01:06:21.000 Aristotle was the one who answered Plato on this.

01:06:24.000 So he's one of the people.

01:06:25.000 He was a student of Plato.

01:06:26.000 And he rebuked it.

01:06:28.000 That's right.

01:06:28.000 So Aristotle is the first big example of somebody who beat this.

01:06:33.000 Aquinas is another big example of somebody who beat this.

01:06:35.000 Aquinas.

01:06:36.000 And what did he do?

01:06:36.000 What kind of studied from Aristotle?

01:06:38.000 Aristotle.

01:06:38.000 Aristotle was the basis of the Summa Theologica.

01:06:41.000 Aristotle's refutations of Plato are key.

01:06:45.000 What are they?

01:06:46.000 The metaphysics, the law of identity, the law of the divided middle, or law of the excluded middle, I'm sorry.

01:06:51.000 And the it's been a long day.

01:06:55.000 There are three.

01:06:56.000 No, I tell every Christian that if you understand Aristotle, your faith will deepen dramatically.

01:07:01.000 Oh, I had a thought.

01:07:01.000 I wanted to mention it.

01:07:02.000 I can't remember what it was.

01:07:04.000 The law of non-contradiction.

01:07:05.000 There we go.

01:07:06.000 Yeah.

01:07:06.000 Sorry.

01:07:07.000 And the law of not forgetting what you were going to say.

01:07:09.000 No, that's a permanent law of that.

01:07:12.000 That's actual magic is the forgetting what you were going to say, Lol.

01:07:15.000 Yeah.

01:07:15.000 So we have these.

01:07:17.000 That's such an interesting framing because it's so mystical.

01:07:23.000 Oh, yeah, that's right.

01:07:26.000 We have a couple more minutes.

01:07:28.000 I'm enjoying this.

01:07:29.000 I hope you are.

01:07:30.000 This is really, I'm learning so much.

01:07:31.000 This is incredible stuff.

01:07:33.000 mRNA gene-altering technology.

01:07:36.000 Yeah, right?

01:07:37.000 You're going to transform man.

01:07:39.000 That's right.

01:07:40.000 And what are we going to do?

01:07:41.000 We're eventually going to put chips in our brain and we're all going to turn into one global internet of brains.

01:07:45.000 And we're all going to have one mind between us.

01:07:48.000 And they'll say it's finally attainable what the mystics only dreamed of.

01:07:52.000 That's right.

01:07:52.000 And what did Hegel say?

01:07:54.000 And I think this is, I get him confused because he has science of logic and encyclopedia logic.

01:07:58.000 And I get him confused sometimes when I pull quotes, which ones it came from.

01:08:01.000 But in this case, Hegel says explicitly that the right name to understand the philosopher is the Mistai.

01:08:08.000 That's the right name for a philosopher, the Mistai.

01:08:11.000 Mystics.

01:08:12.000 They're doing mysticism.

01:08:13.000 That's what Hegel says philosophy really is.

01:08:16.000 He says that the...

01:08:16.000 Not the love of wisdom, which is what the philosopher's job.

01:08:20.000 In the same passage, in the same sentence almost, or the previous sentence, he says that the philosopher's job is to take the cabinet orders from God and write them down.

01:08:32.000 And you tell me, did he think he had a glimpse of what God really meant?

01:08:37.000 His job to be a person like him, which is a mystic called a philosopher, is to take cabinet orders from God and write them down.

01:08:45.000 And that's in his book about how logic works.

01:08:48.000 Hegel believed that he had actually figured out how to become the logos, which Christians should immediately recognize is really not a good thing to decide that you are.

01:08:56.000 I mean, you can't get more heretical than that.

01:08:59.000 And more hermetic.

01:09:02.000 Yeah.

01:09:02.000 In the beginning was the word and the word was God and the word became flesh is directly at odds with hermeticism and Gnosticism.

01:09:08.000 It's directly at odds.

01:09:09.000 The church, once awakened to this, once it dives into this, I'm new.

01:09:13.000 It's green space.

01:09:14.000 Oh, no, it's beyond green space.

01:09:16.000 There's so much clarity that will come once this conversation starts to develop.

01:09:20.000 But not only, yeah, I mean, but not just politically with the weird sorcerers running our governments, but also these self-help books and all these kind of watered-down Christianity.

01:09:32.000 Like, you have the spark within you.

01:09:34.000 Yeah, no. 0.67

01:09:35.000 Like, okay, you weird Hermetic, like Egyptian person. 1.00

01:09:38.000 That's not real stuff, man.

01:09:40.000 Right.

01:09:40.000 That's not real.

01:09:41.000 You got it.

01:09:41.000 Like, there's going to be so much clarity when you start having smart people, whether philosophers or theologians especially, start getting very clear on this because you are 100% correct that the Christian doctrine is 100% diametrically opposed to this.

01:09:56.000 And once you understand what you're looking at, once the spell breaks, you can see it and then you can fight it.

01:10:01.000 I mean, I think we partially beat it by also not just exposing it, because this is actually super appealing.

01:10:09.000 Yeah.

01:10:09.000 It is, isn't it?

01:10:10.000 To say that you're part of God?

01:10:12.000 Yeah.

01:10:12.000 Right?

01:10:13.000 Yeah.

01:10:13.000 You have a little bit of God in you.

01:10:15.000 Yeah.

01:10:15.000 That's what makes you so special.

01:10:17.000 Self-esteem movement, man.

01:10:18.000 You're perfect exactly the way you are.

01:10:20.000 It's so beautiful that way, isn't it?

01:10:22.000 We just have to take all the things that were assigned to you at birth by a culture that then socially, you know, socialized and socially constructed them into you and throw all those off in a fit of miserable 20s and 30s and being childless and resenting the world forever.

01:10:38.000 So tell me about your book.

01:10:39.000 I'm kidding.

01:10:40.000 Marxification of Education.

01:10:41.000 This was really good, Jay.

01:10:42.000 That's another conversation for another day.

01:10:44.000 This is really deep.

01:10:45.000 Parents should get that book seriously.

01:10:46.000 We don't have to talk about it.

01:10:47.000 That's really good.

01:10:48.000 It's key.

01:10:49.000 But this is bigger than that.

01:10:50.000 This is much bigger.

01:10:52.000 I mean, I think you had a real breakthrough here.

01:10:54.000 This is a big one.

01:10:55.000 Yeah.

01:10:55.000 This one's key.

01:10:56.000 Because this is running the whole global game.

01:10:59.000 It's in the church.

01:11:01.000 It's in all of the universities.

01:11:03.000 Your book about universities is the reason it's because of this.

01:11:07.000 Could shatter in a year.

01:11:09.000 I know.

01:11:09.000 It's very fragile.

01:11:10.000 It's fake.

01:11:12.000 It's so synthetic.

01:11:13.000 That's exactly the right word for it.

01:11:15.000 It's totally synthetic.

01:11:16.000 It's totally fake.

01:11:18.000 They say the wizard circle sometimes is a, you know, who says that?

01:11:21.000 Well, as it turns out, was it Eric Foglin, the philosopher I mentioned, said that what Hegel did was he cast a wizard circle around him.

01:11:29.000 He says, when you're in the wizard circle, which means their framing, their narrative, when you're inside that, you're lost, he said. 0.80

01:11:34.000 But if you think of it like a bubble, you remember that episode of The Simpsons was stupid where they put the whole city in a bubble? 0.96

01:11:40.000 That's it. 0.99

01:11:41.000 There's like this bubble.

01:11:43.000 And if you break it, it's gone.

01:11:45.000 And it can go so away so far, so fast.

01:11:48.000 Once people understand, the spell breaks.

01:11:50.000 And when the spell breaks, they can see reality again.

01:11:53.000 That's the key is once you can see reality, their stuff doesn't work anymore.

01:11:56.000 The truth will set you free.

01:11:58.000 Well, I've heard that somewhere before.

01:12:01.000 You believe that, though.

01:12:01.000 You do believe that.

01:12:02.000 I do believe that, fundamentally.

01:12:04.000 That's why James Lindsay acts more like a Christian than most Christians. 0.96

01:12:07.000 God bless you, James.

01:12:08.000 Thank you, Charlie.

01:12:11.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

01:12:13.000 Email me your thoughts as always.

01:12:14.000 Freedom at CharlieKirk.com.

01:12:16.000 Thanks so much for listening, and God bless.

01:12:21.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk. com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - January 03, 2023

The Bible vs. Karl Marx with James Lindsay

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