The Charlie Kirk Show - The Biblical Roots of Nationhood with Yoram Hazony

00:00:00.000 Hey everybody, today at Charlie Kirk Show, Yoram Hazoni joins us for a full hour to talk about conservatism, a rediscovery, the Bible, the Torah, Davos, World Economic Forum, and more.

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00:00:27.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

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00:01:15.000 I think the award has now can be given of the furthest traveled to be a guest on the Charlie Kirk Show.

00:01:21.000 Is that fair to say?

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00:01:25.000 It literally is the other side of the world.

00:01:27.000 Yeah. 0.69

00:01:28.000 So with us is Yoram Chazoni. 0.63

00:01:30.000 I say that right?

00:01:30.000 Yeah.

00:01:31.000 Absolutely.

00:01:31.000 And author of just so many great books, including one I'm currently really enjoying called Conservatism, a Rediscovery.

00:01:39.000 And it's a serious, it's a serious piece of work.

00:01:43.000 This is very well researched, very well written, thoughtfully composed.

00:01:43.000 Thank you.

00:01:49.000 And this is just so perfect to have you in town to be able to have this conversation, all the way from Israel, I should say, because of what's happening right now in Davos and in Switzerland.

00:02:00.000 We've been talking a lot about the World Economic Forum.

00:02:03.000 And it's interesting because Yalval Noah Harari, who's the senior advisor to Klaus Schwab, there are several pieces of tape where he's talking about kind of remaking Genesis, where he says that God created human beings and now we need to do the same.

00:02:18.000 And so all this ties perfectly into our conversation.

00:02:20.000 So first, why don't you introduce yourself to the audience and we can go from there?

00:02:24.000 Sure.

00:02:25.000 Joram Chazoni.

00:02:26.000 I live in Jerusalem, married, nine children, at this point, three grandchildren, God willing, expecting some more.

00:02:34.000 And recent years, I've been involved with, I'm the chairman of an outfit called the Edmund Burke Foundation, which runs the National Conservatism Conferences, which we've been doing for a few years, pretty much every year in the United States and in Europe.

00:02:34.000 Wow.

00:02:51.000 We're doing the first big one in the UK, NATCON UK, in May.

00:02:57.000 And look, we talk about the same stuff that you talk about.

00:03:03.000 It's about national independence.

00:03:04.000 It's about rediscovering God and national traditions.

00:03:08.000 Yes.

00:03:08.000 And about bringing these things into your personal life.

00:03:13.000 And I mean, some of that is just considered to be so outside of kind of the premise of modernity nowadays.

00:03:20.000 But let's start with one of those, reasserting or reestablishing national independence.

00:03:24.000 One of the arguments that I was making in the first hour is that there is such a push towards globalism.

00:03:31.000 There's a push towards kind of forced coercion of the nations.

00:03:34.000 And in some ways, they use, I think, a misapplication of the teaching of World War II to justify that.

00:03:42.000 What are your thoughts on that?

00:03:44.000 Well, look, World War II, World War I, I mean, these are incredibly traumatic experiences for Europe and for America, for other countries as well.

00:03:57.000 And in the wake of the two world wars, there is this big push, both by Marxists and by liberals, to say, you know, what caused this is the inheritance of the past.

00:04:11.000 What caused this is religion and traditional ideologies and especially the nation. 0.64

00:04:18.000 You know, because Hitler called himself a nationalist.

00:04:21.000 He wasn't anything of the sort.

00:04:22.000 He was a biological imperialist, but he... twisted and used the word nationalist.

00:04:27.000 And that became a platform for both liberals and Marxists to say, look, here's the proof.

00:04:34.000 Independent nations are evil. 0.96

00:04:36.000 Don't make a mistake about this. 0.75

00:04:38.000 Hitler writes explicitly in Mein Kampf about Mein Kampf about what he thinks about independent nations.

00:04:44.000 He's against them.

00:04:45.000 He's completely against the idea of independent nations. 0.94

00:04:48.000 An independent nation for him is, you know, it's this kind of Jewish Christian concoction where different nations get their freedom. 0.88

00:04:58.000 And Hitler says, no, if, you know, we the Germans, we're going to be, Germany's going to be the mistress of the globe. 0.96

00:05:05.000 We're going to be the lords of the earth.

00:05:06.000 And so there aren't going to be any independent nations. 0.64

00:05:09.000 And so it's bizarre that after the Second World War, we get all of these very well-intentioned, well-meaning liberals who say, yeah, it's national independence that caused the Holocaust. 0.72

00:05:21.000 And that is kind of the shadow that is cascading over our politics now. 0.67

00:05:25.000 Yeah.

00:05:26.000 Yeah.

00:05:27.000 It intensifies until it reaches a kind of, I would say, a crescendo with the fall of the Berlin Wall.

00:05:36.000 After the fall of the Berlin Wall, you get this euphoric kind of utopianism.

00:05:43.000 Both Democrats and Republicans, Labor and the Tories, across Europe, all the major political parties start talking about the New World Order, what George H.W. Bush calls the New World Order.

00:05:57.000 And he says, for 100 generations, mankind has struggled to try to replace the law of the jungle with the rule of law.

00:06:06.000 And what he means by the rule of law is a single legal system that's going to wrap the entire globe, and America is going to be the policeman of the world.

00:06:16.000 So I can't help but ask now your opinion as a religious Jew about how that ties into, because we've actually been walking through together a little informally as I'm going through the study myself of the first 11 books of Genesis, which I find to be so profound and beautiful, how the teaching of the city of Babel, how that ties into some of these globalist aims and ambitions.

00:06:40.000 And I use the word city because we call the Tower of Babel, but really they wanted to build a city.

00:06:45.000 The Tower is just one component of that.

00:06:47.000 So the Tower of Babel story is kind of the opening shot in a theme that you have throughout the Old Testament, throughout the Hebrew Bible.

00:07:00.000 And this theme is that human beings want to solve all the world's problems.

00:07:06.000 And no, seriously, Pharaoh, we think of Pharaoh as such a bad guy as the Babylonian Empire, the Assyrian Empire, the Persian Empire.

00:07:14.000 But they didn't think they were the bad guys.

00:07:17.000 In their mind, no, seriously, they thought...

00:07:19.000 Well, no, but that's Aristotle's opening line.

00:07:21.000 Every art, every inquiry points towards some good.

00:07:23.000 Everyone thinks they're doing that.

00:07:24.000 Right, right.

00:07:25.000 They think they're good.

00:07:26.000 And when you dig up their clay tablets, there's always some God that's sending the king of Egypt or Babylonia or Assyria to conquer the four corners of the earth.

00:07:38.000 And why?

00:07:39.000 There's an ideology to it.

00:07:41.000 The ideology is bring peace and prosperity.

00:07:44.000 Eliminate warfare.

00:07:45.000 Conquer everybody and just bring peace and prosperity.

00:07:49.000 And the Bible is a rebellion against this.

00:07:52.000 Moses and the prophets say, no, this is evil.

00:07:56.000 You can't decide that you're going to impose your view on all people.

00:08:00.000 So think about this.

00:08:01.000 Moses, he's talking to God, creator of heaven and earth.

00:08:05.000 Why doesn't God tell him to go conquer the four corners of the earth?

00:08:08.000 He's got the law for all nations.

00:08:10.000 He's got a direct pipeline to God.

00:08:12.000 And God tells him, no, you've got borders.

00:08:16.000 The God of Israel is the first God in the ancient world to give borders to his people.

00:08:19.000 You're not allowed to cross them.

00:08:21.000 In Deuteronomy, it says that you're not going to take an inch of the neighbor's territories because they have their own freedom and their own path to God.

00:08:34.000 This is the beginning of the idea of the independent nation.

00:08:38.000 Israel and then Armenia become ancient, these ancient Middle Eastern peoples, they become independent nations that are against universal empire.

00:08:48.000 And the whole history of the West is this seesaw between, you know, and Americans have this too.

00:08:53.000 Are we the Roman Empire?

00:08:55.000 Is our job to conquer the whole world and bring peace and prosperity?

00:08:58.000 Or are we a nation in the image of scripture, like biblical Israel, with our own destiny?

00:09:05.000 What do the founders believe?

00:09:07.000 Well, that debate exists among the founders.

00:09:13.000 You know this story that when Jefferson and Franklin and their committee were designing the seal for the proposing Red Sea.

00:09:24.000 It was going to be the Jews from Egypt, the guy denied. 0.86

00:09:27.000 It's a beautiful story.

00:09:29.000 Jefferson, the secularist, which he wasn't.

00:09:31.000 Right, right.

00:09:32.000 So one theory was this is America is about freedom from empire.

00:09:38.000 So where does that story come from? 0.73

00:09:41.000 Let's put the Jews crossing the Red Sea into the Promised Land on the seal of the United States.

00:09:46.000 So that didn't happen.

00:09:48.000 And they chose the eagle, which of course, you know, that's a Roman imperial symbol.

00:09:53.000 It's a symbol of freedom, but it's a completely different kind of freedom.

00:09:58.000 So the seesaw is there, but I don't think you can miss in the American founding the fact that they think in terms of nations and especially the Federalist Party, Washington's Party, which wrote the Constitution and was responsible for creating one nation out of the 13 colonies.

00:10:22.000 So they're clearly nationalist conservatives.

00:10:26.000 And I think they're great.

00:10:30.000 I think they're terrific.

00:10:31.000 I agree.

00:10:32.000 Conservatism, a rediscovery.

00:10:34.000 Yoram Hazoni, check it out.

00:10:35.000 It's a fabulous book.

00:10:37.000 This is a serious piece of literature here, and it will bless you.

00:10:40.000 So I asked the question previously, and I'd love your thoughts on this.

00:10:45.000 What percentage of the leaders and the attendees at the World Economic Forum and Davos believe that the eyes of God are upon them, judging their every action?

00:10:54.000 Well, look, I would hope that there's more than it looks like.

00:11:00.000 More than Sedona.

00:11:01.000 More than it looks like.

00:11:03.000 Find me one man.

00:11:06.000 Jeremiah says, find me one good man and I'll spare it.

00:11:06.000 Right.

00:11:12.000 Exactly.

00:11:12.000 Look, they've been bitten by the bug.

00:11:17.000 Klaus Schwab and Yuval Harari and all their friends, they've been bitten by the bug.

00:11:24.000 They think that they know the answer for how all of mankind should live.

00:11:30.000 And this is the same old imperial story, is that the God of the Bible understands there are many different nations, and each one has to find its own path.

00:11:42.000 Each one has its own traditions, its own way of looking at things.

00:11:47.000 And these guys have completely forgotten this.

00:11:51.000 I mean, I'm a little bit embarrassed listening to Harari. 1.00

00:11:54.000 I don't think I've ever heard a Jew talk like the way he talks about we're going to produce two things. 1.00

00:12:02.000 We're going to produce human bodies. 0.88

00:12:04.000 We're going to produce human minds, brains.

00:12:07.000 And once we do that, there's going to be two classes of human beings.

00:12:10.000 There's going to be kind of like this godlike elite and everybody else.

00:12:14.000 And he says, what are we going to do with them? 0.93

00:12:16.000 Well, look, that's not Judaism.

00:12:21.000 As you know, in Judaism, every human being is in the image of God.

00:12:27.000 And this kind of easy dismissal of the majority of mankind because you think you've got the answers, it's really a terrible, it's intellectual folly, but morally it's a sin, I think, to think of this.

00:12:44.000 I completely agree.

00:12:45.000 I want to play some of this tape.

00:12:46.000 We actually have it here, and it's so perfect you being here to help us unpack it.

00:12:51.000 So just Yuval Harari is not some sort of fringe blogger.

00:12:54.000 Okay, this is not some sort of weirdo with a Twitter account.

00:12:56.000 This is someone with real power, real influence who's the senior advisor to Klaus Schwab, correct?

00:13:01.000 He's a powerful person.

00:13:03.000 Let's play cut 19 of Yuval Harari talking about how we need to upgrade human beings into God.

00:13:08.000 Play cut 19.

00:13:10.000 The next big projects of humankind will be to overcome old age and death, to find the keys, the secret to happiness, and to basically upgrade humans into gods.

00:13:26.000 And I don't mean it as a kind of literary metaphor.

00:13:30.000 I mean it in the literal sense.

00:13:34.000 So he says, in the literal sense. 0.82

00:13:36.000 Yeah, so I think in the literal sense, this is the exact opposite of scripture, where, you know, Judaism comes into the world with one basic idea, which is that, you know, these God-kings, I mean, it was common to think that Pharaoh is a god, that the kings of these empires are gods. 0.66

00:14:02.000 And that was, they said literally, they meant it literally, that there were gods.

00:14:07.000 And scripture takes this opposite approach.

00:14:11.000 Moses and the prophets tell us that there's no such thing.

00:14:15.000 You can't, you're not a god because you're a king.

00:14:18.000 There's the God of gods, the king of kings, as God is described in the books of Moses.

00:14:28.000 And the point is that human beings are limited, that there is no way to make them unlimited.

00:14:34.000 We're limited.

00:14:35.000 We're limited in our perspective.

00:14:37.000 We're limited in our strength.

00:14:38.000 We're limited in our ability to get to the truth.

00:14:42.000 We're limited in every conceivable way.

00:14:45.000 Now, that doesn't mean that human beings aren't something that can be magnificent, but there's a big difference between being a magnificent human being who is working to advance the cause, God's cause, the cause of a just and decent world, and somebody who says, no, I'm a God.

00:15:08.000 I can decide.

00:15:10.000 I can know.

00:15:11.000 I know everything there is to know.

00:15:13.000 I'm unlimited.

00:15:16.000 I mean, this is, you know, he's basically saying, and again, it's very painful to hear a Jew saying this kind of thing, that, you know, all those thousands of years of human beings trying to come into a proper relationship with God and with justice, which is about recognizing your own limitations.

00:15:35.000 And he says, no, we don't need to do that anymore.

00:15:38.000 The Yuval Harari line of thinking, he is just more forceful and more blunt than most.

00:15:45.000 But that kind of idea that we will be gods and that we will become a god completely goes against the distinction that the Torah says in just the first couple books, distinction between God and man.

00:15:58.000 Paganism and polytheism actually predated the Torah.

00:16:02.000 The Torah was largely written to refute that.

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00:17:11.000 So you were making a point about Thomas Aquinas, which always gets my attention.

00:17:15.000 Well, no, I was invited by some good professors at the University of Dallas in a couple of months to come and give a Berkeyan response to the natural law theory of Thomas Aquinas.

00:17:34.000 And so I've been, you know, look, he's extremely smart and teaches you all sorts of things.

00:17:43.000 One of the interesting things that I hadn't seen is that he says that Friday, night, and Saturday is the day of rest, and Sunday is the Lord's Day.

00:17:55.000 And that's something that I hadn't.

00:17:58.000 I had no idea.

00:17:59.000 I also had no idea that he maintains the theory that the day of rest is as it was in the Torah, as Jesus practiced.

00:18:11.000 Yes.

00:18:11.000 So as I mentioned, I'm writing a short little book called Stop in the Name of God, because Shabbat means stop.

00:18:11.000 Yes.

00:18:16.000 And I have a couple of theories.

00:18:18.000 Some are unique, some are not, because I mean, look, what new argument are you going to make at this point?

00:18:22.000 But the way I'm writing it is that it's for a modern age.

00:18:26.000 That is going to be, so in a modern world with our phones and the chatter, and I believe it makes honoring God easier.

00:18:33.000 I actually think that the heaviness that we have to take with our faith actually becomes that yoke becomes easier if you actually stop.

00:18:43.000 I think that's absolutely true.

00:18:46.000 But I'll just add that it becomes much easier to have family life.

00:18:50.000 That's exactly right.

00:18:51.000 When you've got 24, 26 hours where, you know, business and the news and the world is shut out to the exclusion of your family, your neighbors, worship, and Torah study. 0.89

00:19:09.000 I think we should bring back blue laws.

00:19:10.000 I think America became less free as we repealed blue laws.

00:19:14.000 And if you don't know what blue laws are, that's where everything used to shut down.

00:19:18.000 Well, you know, I grew up in New Jersey.

00:19:21.000 You know, so I'm a little bit older probably than a lot of the listeners, but in New Jersey in the 1970s and 80s, there were blue laws.

00:19:29.000 Everything shut down on Sunday.

00:19:31.000 And I think America was a happier nation then.

00:19:33.000 I really do.

00:19:34.000 I think we were more joyful.

00:19:36.000 I think we were more faithful.

00:19:38.000 And that's just one example of many, right?

00:19:42.000 The secularization of the country actually makes you more miserable.

00:19:46.000 Talk about that for a second, because there's some people that are watching and listening, and we want to broaden this.

00:19:53.000 There are some people that are secular or they're atheistic, and they say, I've had enough of this religion thing.

00:19:58.000 I think modernity has its issues, but come on, going back to a 3,000, 4,000-page tradition or book just seems a little outdated to me.

00:20:06.000 Well, look, the question is: we've rebuilt America and the Western countries.

00:20:15.000 We've rebuilt them on the principle that individuals should be free from anything that they don't choose.

00:20:22.000 Everything is about consent.

00:20:24.000 Why is it that the stores should be open?

00:20:26.000 Because I feel like shopping on Sunday.

00:20:29.000 And the question is: are you, as an individual, happier?

00:20:35.000 Are you happier if there are guidelines that help you point towards the traditions of what used to be healthy and what used to make people happy?

00:20:46.000 Or are you better off if you do all the thinking yourself?

00:20:49.000 So I know a lot of people say, no, I'm better off if I do all the thinking myself.

00:20:54.000 But I don't mean to insult anybody, but it's kind of the way teenagers think is that they don't understand what their parents have to do in order to finance the family, in order to build the home, in order to educate children.

00:21:14.000 So the teenagers don't understand, and they get all this strength and they want to be free.

00:21:20.000 And so they get kind of arrogant, many of them, and they want to overthrow their parents.

00:21:25.000 But when they get older, they start, you know, they have children of their own.

00:21:28.000 They start to realize that life's not so simple.

00:21:31.000 And they very often, most cases, they start to swing back to understanding the things that, you know, the way their parents saw things.

00:21:39.000 And the question about religion is exactly that question: is do we inherit anything, guidelines, rules that are designed and tried over thousands of years to make us healthy and happy?

00:21:53.000 And I think the answer is yes.

00:21:56.000 I think the Jews and Christians have those kinds of rules.

00:21:59.000 You said something fascinating where you said, I think I want to go shop or all that.

00:22:04.000 It goes back to this, I think, I believe, I should say, because I'm about to push back against that diction, that word choice, is as soon as Rene Descartes wrote, I think, therefore I am, this idea of your own personal thinking is elevated over what might come before you.

00:22:23.000 And this set off a strain, a pattern of Enlightenment thinkers, where the idea of piety, or one of my favorite words, duty, was kind of put aside.

00:22:32.000 Yep.

00:22:33.000 And Descartes is explicit.

00:22:37.000 He says you read the history books and you realize that they don't actually have anything to teach you.

00:22:44.000 I mean, he's explicit about...

00:22:45.000 I'm not that.

00:22:45.000 That's fascinating.

00:22:46.000 Yeah, no, it's part of his method.

00:22:51.000 I mean, the first step in his method is recognizing that the texts inherited from the past have been inflated.

00:22:58.000 They don't really have anything to teach you.

00:23:00.000 And so every individual, he says, has to start from scratch, at least once in his life, has to say, I'm going to just reject everything and I'm going to begin from the beginning.

00:23:11.000 And, you know, so you're right.

00:23:13.000 That's the heart of the revolutionary theory.

00:23:16.000 But now we've been doing it for 400 years.

00:23:18.000 So it seems like we know the answer.

00:23:20.000 Does that work?

00:23:21.000 I don't think it works.

00:23:23.000 Yeah, I mean, even if you isolate the time period to say 30 years, we are becoming more suicidal, miserable, far less joyful, less children being born than ever before.

00:23:35.000 And the answer is not more benzodiazepan, Zoloft, Prozac, or any other kind of pharmaceutical or pharmacologions.

00:23:42.000 You and I would both argue that this has been a spiritual and a political derailment from the ties that bind us together.

00:23:51.000 Or, I mean, and you know it far better than I do, as Edmund Burke would say, the three-tied knot of what is to come, what has been, and what is.

00:23:58.000 Yeah, I know a lot of people don't, you know, this is we're talking about within living memory.

00:24:05.000 As I write in the book, my wife and I met when we were, you know, we were in college, and both of us came from a background that, you know, where we were already suffering from a lot of these ailments that you're talking about.

00:24:19.000 And we wanted to, we had caught a glimpse.

00:24:24.000 I had lived for a year in Israel where I had spent the Sabbaths with my Orthodox aunt and uncle.

00:24:32.000 And we wanted to see whether it isn't possible for young people to join a community where those traditions are still the life of conservation and transmission, of handing down wisdom, of handing down guidelines, whether it wasn't possible to rejoin that.

00:24:55.000 And that's what we discovered.

00:24:56.000 We discovered that you can.

00:24:58.000 I mean, it takes work, but even if you're starting from close to zero, you can join a community where you go to the community and you see that the people are happier, the people are healthier.

00:25:11.000 They're getting married.

00:25:11.000 They're having children.

00:25:14.000 They're studying the Torah.

00:25:18.000 They're trying to live a good life.

00:25:19.000 Of course, not everybody succeeds.

00:25:21.000 All of us make mistakes and all of us sin.

00:25:24.000 But as a community, the effort is we together are trying to lead a good life and to hand down the wisdom of our ancestors.

00:25:35.000 So if we were to, in private with a lie detector test, let's say theoretically, we can give a truth serum to all the World Economic Forum people, Yuval Harari, Klaus Schwab, and all of them.

00:25:46.000 And we ask them, do you think human beings are naturally good or naturally bad?

00:25:52.000 What do you think their answer would be?

00:25:54.000 They're going to say we can make them good.

00:25:54.000 I know their answer.

00:25:58.000 That's their answer.

00:26:00.000 They think that science can solve all the problems.

00:26:04.000 Now, I mean, seriously, I find this really difficult to understand.

00:26:08.000 Science, look, I love all sorts of things about science.

00:26:12.000 I read about Newton.

00:26:13.000 I mean, there's good things about science, but the idea, I mean, let's take antidepressants.

00:26:21.000 How many people do you know on antidepressants?

00:26:23.000 I know lots.

00:26:25.000 There's 25 million that we know about.

00:26:27.000 Yeah, so how many people have stopped being depressed because they're taking antidepressants?

00:26:32.000 Very few.

00:26:33.000 I mean, there's a serious issue here where science claims to do all sorts of things.

00:26:40.000 All sorts of things are said in the name of science.

00:26:43.000 But does that mean that it's good science?

00:26:45.000 Does that mean it actually works?

00:26:46.000 A lot of the things that we're told have been solved have not actually been solved.

00:26:51.000 This is very basic in academic psychology.

00:26:55.000 There's a scandal.

00:26:59.000 The scandal of the problem of reconfirming experiments of either...

00:27:04.000 It's a replication crisis?

00:27:06.000 Yeah, the replication crisis.

00:27:07.000 It's a little bit, maybe a little bit less dramatic because it's an academic discipline.

00:27:12.000 But yeah, but what is the replication crisis?

00:27:15.000 The replication crisis is that you can be going to university courses and studying things that are supposedly scientific facts, except it turns out that if somebody, If an academic psychologist goes and tries to replicate the experiments 30 years later, you can't replicate them.

00:27:36.000 And there's an awful lot of what's being called science, which is like that.

00:27:42.000 You know, the fact that we can fly airplanes doesn't mean that the drug that you're taking actually does what it claims that it can do.

00:27:49.000 Yeah, and there is this kind of, and I see this, I grew up in upper-middle-class suburban society, and it's baked into the given of upper-middle-class American suburban life, which is the advance of the modernity can never be challenged.

00:28:04.000 And since Advil or Motrin or Tylenol can help you with your headache, therefore all these other things must be true.

00:28:14.000 Therefore, there's no way that staring at your screen all day long can be bad for you.

00:28:18.000 Therefore, you must take the mRNA vaccine or whatever the kind of in-vogue thing is.

00:28:25.000 And I mean, Woodrow Wilson really was one of the more forceful American presidents to say, look, we have the steam-powered engine, we have automatic machine guns, we're going to figure out how to fly across the nation.

00:28:37.000 We don't need these founding fathers.

00:28:39.000 There is this temptation to disregard the past in favor of the modern, or in our case, the postmodern, because things can move faster, 30 seconds.

00:28:52.000 Things can move faster.

00:28:53.000 It doesn't mean that the direction they're moving in is good.

00:28:56.000 That's exactly right.

00:28:58.000 Jerry Fodor, the great cognitive scientist, once wrote to Steven Pinker and he said, I don't understand how you're so cheerful.

00:29:07.000 We know almost nothing.

00:29:10.000 Yeah, I mean, look, it's that old phrase, the more I know, the more I realize how little I knew when I knew it all, or something like that.

00:29:19.000 Rents are soaring at unprecedented highs.

00:29:22.000 If you're renting or have a friend or family member, that is, now is a great time to make the move to homeownership.

00:29:28.000 Look, you got to own.

00:29:29.000 Renting, that's great reset stuff.

00:29:31.000 Andrew Del Rey and Todd of Akian at Sierra Pacific Mortgage have helped so many people make that leap from renting to owning with lots of programs that offer first-time buyers assistance with little to no down payment needed.

00:29:44.000 I encourage you right now to visit my buddies, their website.

00:29:47.000 They're great guys.

00:29:48.000 They're conservatives.

00:29:48.000 They're Christians.

00:29:49.000 They love the Lord.

00:29:50.000 AndrewNTodd.com right now.

00:29:52.000 The thing I love about these guys is it's not about the transaction.

00:29:55.000 They're helping you create a plan to help you reach your goals.

00:29:58.000 Give them a call or go to their website, andrewandTodd.com.

00:30:01.000 With today's still historically low interest rates, it's easier than you think to become a homeowner.

00:30:06.000 I've relied on them and producer Andrew has as well.

00:30:09.000 I highly recommend you take action now.

00:30:11.000 And if you knew someone paying rent, tell them about Andrew and Todd.

00:30:14.000 Go to andrewandtodd.com and tell them the Charlie Kirk show sent you.

00:30:21.000 So what do we do?

00:30:23.000 What do we do?

00:30:26.000 Look, in conservative thought, Anglo-American conservative thought, there's this great, beautiful word, restoration.

00:30:36.000 Restoration means that you see that your country's gone off course.

00:30:45.000 And Edmund Burke says you look back, you find the time, the most recent time where things were still pretty much on course.

00:30:53.000 1985.

00:30:55.000 That's Tucker's year.

00:30:57.000 Eight years before I was born.

00:30:58.000 That's generous.

00:31:00.000 I think I'd put it a little earlier, but whatever the year, whatever your year is, you need to put the thing back on the path that it was on back then.

00:31:10.000 Now, that's obviously it's not, you know, you can't actually literally do it in every way.

00:31:15.000 But, you know, but things can be restored.

00:31:19.000 I mean, the Supreme Court in Dobbs is restoring a piece of the earlier American Constitution.

00:31:27.000 Yes.

00:31:28.000 Right.

00:31:28.000 And so, you know, there aren't many examples like that, recent examples, but that is an example.

00:31:36.000 And in my book, I write about the American Constitution.

00:31:40.000 People don't necessarily remember that Washington and his party, when they wrote the Constitution, their restorationists, there already was an American Constitution, right?

00:31:50.000 The Articles of Confederation.

00:31:52.000 And it was a catastrophe.

00:31:53.000 And they said, Washington during the war started sending out letters saying, we need something like the British Constitution.

00:32:02.000 And so 1787 is a restoration.

00:32:05.000 It's bringing back a British tradition for how you create a strong central government, which the Americans thought they were going to do without.

00:32:13.000 Look, restoration is possible, but it begins at home.

00:32:15.000 It begins with you personally.

00:32:17.000 You can't think it's all going to happen at the political level.

00:32:21.000 We could be Sodom or we could be Nineveh.

00:32:24.000 Right?

00:32:25.000 Tell us the two.

00:32:27.000 Well, everybody knows Sodom was so evil that God thought it should be wiped off the face of the earth.

00:32:35.000 And Abraham argues, but in the end, God wipes it off the face of the earth. 0.92

00:32:39.000 Ninve was the capital of the Assyrian Empire. 1.00

00:32:43.000 It's this utterly evil, you know, an empire that lived for destroying other peoples for 300 years. 1.00

00:32:50.000 All they did was go to war to destroy other nations.

00:32:53.000 Totally evil.

00:32:57.000 And God wants Jonah to go there and tell them to repent.

00:33:00.000 Jonah runs away.

00:33:01.000 Why?

00:33:01.000 Because he doesn't want to tell them to repent.

00:33:02.000 He wants them to be punished because they're evil.

00:33:05.000 And God says, no, you leave that to me.

00:33:07.000 You don't make these decisions.

00:33:08.000 I make these decisions.

00:33:09.000 The people of Ninve repent.

00:33:11.000 It's amazing.

00:33:12.000 It's the most powerful.

00:33:13.000 And God forgives them.

00:33:14.000 He says, you know, you, a human being, you think you're going to decide the fate of these hundreds of thousands of people.

00:33:22.000 And you're not.

00:33:23.000 You're not going to make that decision. 0.86

00:33:25.000 So we don't know if America is Sdom and it's going to be destroyed because it's so evil or if it's Ninve and it's evil, but God's going to forgive it because people are going to repent. 0.69

00:33:37.000 We don't know.

00:33:38.000 We know how it looks to us, but we don't know what decision God's going to make.

00:33:42.000 So we need to repent and we need to fight.

00:33:45.000 Amen.

00:33:46.000 There's two types of societies that have gone astray.

00:33:50.000 There's those with really bad people mixed with bad laws. 0.94

00:33:55.000 That's Nazism. 0.86

00:33:57.000 There's some that have actually okay laws with people that have gone astray. 0.90

00:34:00.000 I think that's where America is.

00:34:02.000 Now, the laws are changing quickly.

00:34:05.000 But when you combine, for example, people will say, well, you know, there was nothing illegal with killing a Jew in the 40s. 0.82

00:34:11.000 That's right. 0.86

00:34:11.000 There was nothing that was legal. 0.86

00:34:14.000 That doesn't mean it was right.

00:34:15.000 In Germany. 0.69

00:34:16.000 That's what I'm saying.

00:34:16.000 Yes.

00:34:18.000 In Nazi Germany.

00:34:19.000 Yeah, right. 0.89

00:34:19.000 But America's laws were always pretty good laws. 0.89

00:34:22.000 No, that's what I'm saying.

00:34:23.000 But we had a time, we had hopefully a more moral and righteous, virtuous people and pretty good laws.

00:34:29.000 The point is it has to start with the people, and the people have gone astray.

00:34:33.000 And we have to fight one minute remaining.

00:34:35.000 Your thoughts?

00:34:38.000 I think you can do it.

00:34:40.000 I mean, I think if you're a person sitting at home and saying, I can't do it.

00:34:44.000 I'm not strong enough.

00:34:45.000 I think you can do it.

00:34:47.000 I think you can.

00:34:48.000 Go find a community where there are older people together with younger people, and the traditions are still being handed down.

00:34:56.000 Go there not to judge them.

00:34:58.000 Go there to learn from them.

00:34:59.000 And you'll find that you can change.

00:35:03.000 We got to fight.

00:35:04.000 It's the most important fight of our time.

00:35:06.000 Conservatism, a rediscovery and the virtue of nationalism.

00:35:12.000 That's correct.

00:35:13.000 And also the Edmund Burke Foundation.

00:35:15.000 Edmund Burke Foundation puts on NatCon.

00:35:18.000 You should come to NatCon.

00:35:19.000 These are the best conferences in America other than Charlie's.

00:35:22.000 Thank you.

00:35:24.000 But you should come.

00:35:26.000 NationalConservatism.org.

00:35:28.000 I love it.

00:35:28.000 Well, we're going to have a sidebar after this, and I encourage you guys to check out the books.

00:35:32.000 They will bless you.

00:35:33.000 Email us freedom at charliekirk.com and subscribe to our podcast more tomorrow in Marook Hashem.

00:35:41.000 God bless you, everybody.

00:35:42.000 We'll see you guys tomorrow.

00:35:44.000 And in the meantime, you've got to fight for what's good.

00:35:46.000 Talk to you tomorrow.

00:35:50.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk. com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - January 17, 2023

The Biblical Roots of Nationhood with Yoram Hazony

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