The Charlie Kirk Show - The Bill Maher Interview — My Full Reaction

00:00:00.000 Hey everybody, Charlie Kirk here, live from the Bitcoin.com studio.

00:00:04.000 Today on the Charlie Kirk Show, my full annotated commentary on my conversation with Bill Maher.

00:00:09.000 It's a very important conversation.

00:00:11.000 There are some things I wanted to add on top of it.

00:00:13.000 So I think you're going to enjoy this.

00:00:15.000 And maybe you have a long road trip.

00:00:17.000 You got a big workout ahead of you.

00:00:18.000 Keep those earbuds in and listen.

00:00:21.000 To this annotation I had of my conversation with Bill Maher.

00:00:24.000 As always, you can email me, freedom at charliekirk.com, text this to your friends, and get involved with the very important Turning Point USA at tpusa.com.

00:00:31.000 That is tpusa.com.

00:00:34.000 Buckle up, everybody.

00:00:35.000 Here we go.

00:00:36.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:37.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

00:00:39.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

00:00:43.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:00:46.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:00:47.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:00:48.000 His spirit, his love of this country.

00:00:50.000 He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.

00:00:56.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

00:01:05.000 That's why we are here.

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00:01:33.000 Okay, everybody, this conversation is quite interesting.

00:01:36.000 It is where I sat down with Bill Maher at Club Random on his program.

00:01:42.000 Let me first say, Bill treated me great.

00:01:44.000 It was quite the conversation, and he was very pleasant, albeit at times rather crude but very respectful.

00:01:53.000 I do want to make sure you understand some of the, let's just say, environment around this conversation.

00:01:59.000 Bill is smoking something.

00:02:02.000 So, just so you know, I don't like cigarettes, I don't like cigar smoke, and I certainly don't like marijuana smoke, but throughout the entire conversation, Bill Maher was smoking weed.

00:02:12.000 Didn't necessarily make it easier for me to be able to have this conversation, but I decided to just kind of roll with the punches, and whether or not I got second-hand high, that still is up for debate.

00:02:24.000 I will say, though...

00:02:25.000 There's no excuses.

00:02:26.000 Sometimes if you're a football player, you've got to play in the snow.

00:02:29.000 Sometimes if you're a baseball player, you have to play in the wind and the rain.

00:02:32.000 Sometimes if you're a political commentator fighting for Jesus and fighting for liberty and fighting for America, you've got to play in the weed.

00:02:40.000 And so we talk about a lot of different stuff throughout this conversation.

00:02:44.000 I'm going to break this up and tell you at certain moments I feel as if I should have injected myself more, some points that I wish I would have made.

00:02:53.000 And honestly, some points that I think I did pretty well at.

00:02:56.000 And so throughout this conversation with Bill Maher, I'm going to kind of interject and show you that, ooh, I wish I would have made this point about the resurrection.

00:03:04.000 Or I wish I would have said this about President Trump.

00:03:06.000 Or I wish I would have said this about Jesus Christ.

00:03:09.000 Or I wish I would have said X, Y, Z. And you'll see that.

00:03:12.000 So here it is.

00:03:13.000 And just so you also know, there was no really introduction.

00:03:17.000 They didn't even tell me that we were rolling.

00:03:19.000 I was just sitting there on set and Bill Maher appears and...

00:03:23.000 The podcast begins.

00:03:24.000 So here it is, my appearance on Club Random, and this might be the first of many conversations with Bill Maher.

00:03:31.000 Enjoy. So you don't think any people are, like, born, quote-unquote, in the wrong body?

00:03:37.000 No, I don't agree.

00:03:38.000 No? I think people might think they are.

00:03:40.000 Club Random.

00:03:42.000 There's a book of the Bible I think you'd love.

00:03:44.000 What? Song of Solomon.

00:03:45.000 Song of Solomon.

00:03:46.000 Cross My Souls and Nash?

00:03:48.000 Song of Solomon's all about sex.

00:03:50.000 Club Random.

00:03:53.000 Charlie Kirk here?

00:03:55.000 I am here.

00:03:57.000 Kirk, reporting for duty?

00:03:58.000 That's what they call me.

00:03:59.000 How are you?

00:04:00.000 Nice to meet you.

00:04:01.000 Thanks for having us.

00:04:02.000 Us? Well, our game.

00:04:05.000 Or me.

00:04:05.000 Is there someone with you?

00:04:07.000 No. Thanks for having me.

00:04:08.000 You're not expecting trouble, are you?

00:04:09.000 Not quite.

00:04:10.000 Any trouble with security?

00:04:11.000 Unfortunately. You do?

00:04:13.000 Yeah. Wow.

00:04:15.000 Like what kind?

00:04:17.000 You know, security.

00:04:19.000 Like bodyguards?

00:04:20.000 You know, when I went to Europe in 2015, I had like three, I had two Israeli bodyguards and my security person.

00:04:29.000 It was right after one of the Islamic unfortunate incidents. 1.00

00:04:36.000 Was it the Paris?

00:04:37.000 There was two big things at that time.

00:04:41.000 Paris, right there.

00:04:43.000 What year was this?

00:04:44.000 2015. Okay, so that would have been the Charlie Hebdo situation?

00:04:47.000 Hebdo certainly was the year before.

00:04:49.000 If I'm recalling, yes.

00:04:50.000 The tolerant Muslim.

00:04:52.000 Yes, and, you know, I've been very...

00:04:55.000 You've been extraordinary on that.

00:04:56.000 Thank you.

00:04:58.000 So we were, like, extraordinary to you, but we were, like, very...

00:05:03.000 And, like, I pictured this...

00:05:05.000 I'd never toured Europe before.

00:05:07.000 As a comic, you know, and there are places you can really speak English.

00:05:10.000 It was fun, but I also made it a vacation.

00:05:12.000 I took my girl I was with at the time.

00:05:14.000 I pictured this bucolic, beautiful European springtime vacation.

00:05:18.000 Of course, it was wedged between the two giant Israeli bodyguards the whole way.

00:05:23.000 If you want security, the Israelis know what they're doing. 0.99

00:05:25.000 Exactly. So it was not the vacation I planned.

00:05:29.000 But, well, I'm sorry that you have to do that, but that's the price of fame.

00:05:34.000 Boy, I mean, man, you're everywhere.

00:05:37.000 You like the new it?

00:05:39.000 No, no, no.

00:05:40.000 No, it's true.

00:05:41.000 We have different jihadis that want to kill me, the purple-haired jihadis, the woke guys.

00:05:45.000 Well, they want to kill me just as bad.

00:05:49.000 Probably. Oh, they really do.

00:05:50.000 No, you've been very outspoken on the woke stuff, big time.

00:05:53.000 Oh, yes.

00:05:54.000 I mean, and they, just the way, within a religion, they hate their own apostates more.

00:06:01.000 I would say they hate me more.

00:06:03.000 Because I'm supposed to, like, get on the short bus to crazy town with them.

00:06:07.000 And I won't.

00:06:09.000 And yet I'm still a liberal.

00:06:10.000 And still, like, you know, I mean, we probably could argue all day about Donald Trump and what he's doing, which I'm not down with.

00:06:18.000 But, you know, it's always the people who are closest who think, oh, gosh.

00:06:27.000 You shouldn't have.

00:06:28.000 You're a traitor somehow.

00:06:30.000 I was going to ask, is it because they thought you were one of them?

00:06:32.000 I am one of them.

00:06:34.000 They're not one of me.

00:06:35.000 It's the liberals.

00:06:37.000 So they've left you, not you.

00:06:38.000 Well, I feel like there's...

00:06:40.000 Liberal and woke are two completely different things.

00:06:43.000 It was a theme of my last stand-up special that I just did a few months ago.

00:06:47.000 And it's basically...

00:06:49.000 I mean, it wasn't the whole special, of course, but it was a large part of it devoted to that, to proving that case that, you know...

00:06:56.000 What liberals believe, woke is something completely different.

00:07:00.000 It's very often the opposite of it.

00:07:03.000 You know, liberalism is let's live in a colorblind society.

00:07:06.000 That's the goal.

00:07:07.000 Woke's goal is we see race everywhere. 0.99

00:07:10.000 Race obsession.

00:07:11.000 Yes. Okay.

00:07:12.000 So that's not liberal.

00:07:14.000 You change.

00:07:15.000 Liberal is there are two-state solution.

00:07:17.000 Woke is river to the sea.

00:07:19.000 Okay? So just don't take my word and say you're that.

00:07:23.000 You took this and took it to...

00:07:25.000 You got off the F train, you fell asleep, and you got off at 20 stops too far, and don't blame me for that.

00:07:32.000 Okay, and so then we dive into, of course, the topic of weed and alcohol.

00:07:36.000 And I want to reiterate, I was a guest on his show.

00:07:39.000 I did not want to come across as overly aggressive.

00:07:41.000 I honestly wanted to get to know Bill Maher.

00:07:44.000 Thought he's done a great job speaking out against the woke.

00:07:46.000 He's a rare free speech liberal, despite our firm disagreements on many things, political and spiritual.

00:07:54.000 And so here we have a discussion about marijuana and alcohol.

00:07:57.000 And the point I so badly wanted to make, but I decided not to, because in the spirit of being polite, is that his perspective is like, hey, why can't I do weed if it doesn't impact somebody else?

00:08:10.000 The irony is that it kind of was impacting me, because I had to smell him doing weed there.

00:08:15.000 But I decided not to make that point in the pursuit of being polite and trying to be magnanimous.

00:08:23.000 I'll be it.

00:08:23.000 Look, there's so much about marijuana that does not get discussed.

00:08:26.000 It could be really, really bad for your brain.

00:08:28.000 It could be increased depression, increased anxiety, a lot of problems with it.

00:08:33.000 But hey, if that's what you want to do, then that's what you want to do.

00:08:36.000 I will say, though, it kind of invalidates one's argument if you say it's not impacting somebody else while you're smoking weed, basically, right next to somebody.

00:08:45.000 Drink? No, I'm good.

00:08:46.000 Thank you.

00:08:47.000 You don't drink?

00:08:48.000 No. Or smoke pot?

00:08:49.000 No. And you're married and super Christian.

00:08:52.000 We're going to get along great.

00:08:53.000 This is going to just be perfect.

00:08:55.000 But can I just ask, because I want to find out a lot about you, because you're obviously a super bright guy, but you do think that I have the right to live completely opposite than you do.

00:09:06.000 I think you can get as drunk as you'd like.

00:09:09.000 And you're that kind of an American, right?

00:09:12.000 Yes, of course.

00:09:12.000 You're not forcing your opinions as...

00:09:15.000 I'm not here to say you can't.

00:09:17.000 What are you talking about?

00:09:17.000 No, okay.

00:09:17.000 So you think pot should be legal?

00:09:19.000 That's a complicated...

00:09:21.000 I have a very unpopular view on pot.

00:09:24.000 You know, can I tell you my case on pot?

00:09:27.000 Please do.

00:09:28.000 It's not the depression that it might be causing or the fact that it might be hurting kids' brains.

00:09:33.000 It's the smell.

00:09:34.000 It's the stench that drives me crazy.

00:09:36.000 Yeah, it's not hurting their brains.

00:09:37.000 I mean, kids shouldn't do it.

00:09:39.000 Of course, kids shouldn't.

00:09:40.000 It definitely didn't hurt my brain.

00:09:42.000 But let me ask, do you think that more teenagers are doing pot today or that...

00:09:48.000 Before legalization or after legalization?

00:09:50.000 Do you think usage rates are going up or down?

00:09:51.000 I don't know the answer.

00:09:52.000 Oh, you'll be fascinated by this because, you know, I'm not married, so I go out.

00:09:57.000 So sometimes I'm out with people who are a great deal younger than me.

00:10:01.000 I don't know how they get in my group, but they do.

00:10:04.000 And so I've been to sometimes parties.

00:10:08.000 Like the Hollywood parties.

00:10:09.000 And this is probably not most of America exactly this way, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's that different.

00:10:15.000 And first of all, in this town, it's all run by, like, the Nepo Babies. 1.00

00:10:19.000 The Nepo Babies, the trust fund kids, all these little funny two-year-old brands.

00:10:23.000 The J.B. Pritzker types.

00:10:25.000 Well... I'm kidding.

00:10:26.000 No, no, I'm sure I know who you mean, the governor of Illinois.

00:10:29.000 He inherited the Hyatt.

00:10:31.000 Oh, sure.

00:10:32.000 Nepo Baby. 0.99

00:10:33.000 We invented Nepo Baby out here. 0.99

00:10:35.000 But yes, it's everywhere now.

00:10:37.000 Even on the Lakers.

00:10:39.000 Hey, that's real privilege there.

00:10:41.000 You know you got some privilege if you can get...

00:10:43.000 Well, okay.

00:10:45.000 I don't want LeBron mad at me like he is at my friend Stephen A. But, I mean, that is, you know.

00:10:52.000 But the point is that when you go out to these...

00:10:56.000 I've been to these parties where, like, it's a bunch of 22-year-old kids and none of them are smoking pot.

00:11:01.000 Why? They're on real drugs. 1.00

00:11:05.000 Pot's so like my generation. 0.99

00:11:08.000 It's like I couldn't find pot at one of these parties.

00:11:10.000 I was the only one.

00:11:11.000 They were asking me for it.

00:11:12.000 The few kids.

00:11:13.000 They're all...

00:11:14.000 They take...

00:11:16.000 Like psychedelics or mushrooms, LSD.

00:11:19.000 Oh, ketamine, whatever.

00:11:21.000 Ketamine, that has some medicinal property, but not at a party.

00:11:24.000 They're all...

00:11:25.000 It's all ingested before they even leave the house.

00:11:29.000 So that's where the good news, parents, your kids aren't on pot.

00:11:34.000 Yeah, but they're on...

00:11:35.000 Way worse, I think.

00:11:37.000 They're on a big, big trip.

00:11:38.000 But do you think that since we've legalized, less teenagers are doing, like 13-, 14-, 15-year-olds?

00:11:43.000 Because that was always the argument, right?

00:11:44.000 If we legalize it, less kids would do it. 1.00

00:11:46.000 I don't know what 14-year-olds are doing.

00:11:49.000 No, I don't know the answer.

00:11:50.000 I just...

00:11:50.000 That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

00:11:52.000 But we can agree that kids shouldn't.

00:11:54.000 Oh, totally.

00:11:56.000 But we also should be able to agree that we shouldn't force adults to organize their lives around what kids might get into.

00:12:05.000 That's a good argument.

00:12:06.000 I mean, do you think that it's...

00:12:07.000 I mean, you're not against porn, are you?

00:12:09.000 Well, I actually once struggled with porn.

00:12:11.000 Thankfully, I'm free of that.

00:12:12.000 But I mean...

00:12:13.000 How can you struggle with it?

00:12:15.000 It's so easy.

00:12:16.000 Well, you could grow addicted to it.

00:12:19.000 I mean, it can...

00:12:19.000 I was kidding.

00:12:21.000 No, but I mean, yeah, I don't have that issue anymore, thankfully.

00:12:26.000 I would ask the question, though, like, do you think since the legalization of marijuana in L.A., it's made it a better or worse place to live?

00:12:33.000 Or just it hasn't changed at all?

00:12:35.000 It certainly hasn't changed my life.

00:12:37.000 Okay. I grow it right outside here.

00:12:40.000 Do you think the quality of life has gone up or down?

00:12:43.000 Well, I don't know, but that's not really the relevant question, is it?

00:12:48.000 Even if there is a deleterious effect.

00:12:51.000 There is too many things we do, and we would not use that as a reason to prescribe our basic freedoms.

00:12:57.000 Should people be able to do drugs like on the street?

00:13:01.000 No, definitely not on the street.

00:13:03.000 So there are some limits.

00:13:05.000 Of course there are limits, yes.

00:13:07.000 And maybe of certain drugs, or certain drugs should be by prescription, as we do with pharmaceutical drugs.

00:13:15.000 But certainly pot.

00:13:17.000 Is more benign than alcohol.

00:13:20.000 I mean, I could give you the stats on that.

00:13:22.000 We all know that.

00:13:24.000 Is it health food?

00:13:26.000 No. I'm not crazy like some of my hippie friends are, trying to portray it as something that's actually good for your lungs.

00:13:37.000 But I don't think it's...

00:13:38.000 Well, it's a trade-off.

00:13:40.000 When you're an adult, you have the right to make trade-offs.

00:13:43.000 Trade-offs is the essence of life.

00:13:46.000 I'm going to have this piece of cake tonight and be a little fatter tomorrow, or I'm not going to do that and feel better tomorrow.

00:13:53.000 And we all make those choices on a daily basis with everything.

00:13:58.000 Yes, have I probably cut off some years of my life, maybe with pot?

00:14:02.000 Who knows?

00:14:03.000 I may have increased them because it helped me.

00:14:06.000 It certainly made me richer.

00:14:09.000 It made me better at my job, better at writing, better at a lot of things I like to do.

00:14:13.000 So, you know, I might be living in a two-bedroom apartment in Van Nuys if it wasn't for pot, and I'm probably going to live longer here.

00:14:21.000 Or who knows how successful you could have been without it.

00:14:24.000 That's true, too.

00:14:25.000 That is true, too.

00:14:26.000 Do you think there's any merit to the argument that the pot...

00:14:31.000 It's so hard.

00:14:33.000 I don't know.

00:14:34.000 I hear these things.

00:14:35.000 Oh, I hear those things too, and I'm sure that's true because once it became as commercialized as it has, of course you're going to try to maximize the potency of it just because the customer comes back, just like a restaurant, is not interested in your health.

00:14:50.000 They're interested in making the food as delicious as they can so you've come back to that restaurant.

00:14:56.000 But it's so hard for me to tell you because I've been smoking for 50 years, and I'm different.

00:15:05.000 Who knows what I was thinking?

00:15:06.000 I remember when I first smoked, we would just sit in the car and laugh at nothing for an hour.

00:15:11.000 That doesn't happen anymore.

00:15:13.000 So my guess is the pot is stronger, but my resistance is weaker.

00:15:18.000 Okay. Anyway, people think I'm some sort of giant pothead.

00:15:24.000 I've always been very circumspect about my pot smoking.

00:15:27.000 I mean, I don't smoke every day.

00:15:29.000 The most I smoke is right here, once a week.

00:15:32.000 I like to be in party mode when I'm with someone I'm getting to know.

00:15:37.000 This is one of the joys of my life.

00:15:41.000 And, you know, I understand that it doesn't connect with some people or make some people paranoid or something, but other people, it's just, I mean...

00:15:51.000 You know, some people like a scotch, and some people like blah, blah, blah, and some people like complete sobriety.

00:15:56.000 If that's your thing, that's fine.

00:15:59.000 But to me, the most interesting place I can ever travel is inside my own mind, and drugs do help you get there.

00:16:08.000 Is there...

00:16:09.000 Do you think all hard drugs should be illegal, like heroin?

00:16:13.000 Illegal, no.

00:16:14.000 I mean, well, heroin, is there any uses for it?

00:16:18.000 I mean...

00:16:19.000 Like, for what San Francisco did, they pseudo-legalized it, right?

00:16:21.000 I mean, they said, hey, we're going to make it easier for you to do heroin.

00:16:24.000 No, we shouldn't make it easier.

00:16:25.000 That's crazy.

00:16:26.000 Where they had drug injection sites, basically, right?

00:16:28.000 No, I know, but that was a public policy position of Seattle, Portland, and San Francisco.

00:16:33.000 That's the low-lying fruit for you right-wing. 0.99

00:16:36.000 No, that's a question.

00:16:37.000 No, but isn't it?

00:16:38.000 I want to create...

00:16:39.000 It's the low-lying fruit.

00:16:41.000 It's like, no...

00:16:42.000 Sure, it's a boundary.

00:16:45.000 I want to create a boundary.

00:16:45.000 And you're right.

00:16:46.000 You know, I mean, again, I'm for picking that fruit, too.

00:16:50.000 It's silly to help drug addicts be drug addicts and keep them on the street.

00:16:55.000 It's stupid to keep homeless on the street.

00:16:57.000 Oh, I totally agree.

00:16:58.000 There's another way liberals are different than the woke.

00:17:01.000 The liberal thing forever was, for compassion's sake, get them off the street.

00:17:06.000 That's not the woke version.

00:17:08.000 Their version is...

00:17:09.000 They're an endangered species.

00:17:10.000 Don't touch them in their natural habitat living under a bridge.

00:17:14.000 Let them defecate. 1.00

00:17:14.000 Let them do whatever they want. 1.00

00:17:15.000 It's their thing.

00:17:17.000 And, you know, I mean, there should be nothing more basic than a government claiming the streets.

00:17:23.000 The streets are for the citizens.

00:17:24.000 Then it's not to live in.

00:17:26.000 Build a barracks.

00:17:27.000 I mean, why are these things...

00:17:28.000 Maybe you can answer that.

00:17:30.000 Why are these kind of things so difficult that you think it's such common sense?

00:17:34.000 Build a...

00:17:35.000 Barracks? I know homeless people say they don't want to live there.

00:17:38.000 You don't have a choice.

00:17:39.000 Oh, we'll get robbed there.

00:17:41.000 Higher security.

00:17:42.000 It's pennies on the dollar.

00:17:44.000 Why is it so difficult?

00:17:45.000 I feel like I, with no real knowledge of this field, could do it.

00:17:51.000 If I had people who would carry out my...

00:17:53.000 I would say, okay, get me specs.

00:17:55.000 I want to see a place we could build it.

00:17:58.000 I want to see what the barracks looks like.

00:17:59.000 I want to see who works there.

00:18:01.000 Is it really in the toilets?

00:18:03.000 Whatever. And somebody must be able to...

00:18:06.000 Mitt Romney, somebody who did the Olympics, somebody who could come in and just...

00:18:10.000 We know how to clean up the streets.

00:18:11.000 I mean, Gavin Newsom cleaned up the streets of San Francisco when Gigi Ping showed up.

00:18:14.000 I mean, it's just an act of the will.

00:18:16.000 They don't want to do it.

00:18:17.000 Right, like when they get the whores off the street, when the mayor is doing one of those clean-up... 1.00

00:18:22.000 Or like when the MLB All-Star Game goes to Seattle, all of a sudden it's America's cleanest city.

00:18:26.000 Right. So you're saying if we can do it that one day...

00:18:30.000 I'm saying it's an act of the will.

00:18:32.000 It's all that it is.

00:18:32.000 And look...

00:18:33.000 Left, woke, I won't even say left, woke philosophy is they believe, they don't really believe in private property, and at its core, why shouldn't someone be able to defecate on the side of the street?

00:18:44.000 Who are you to judge?

00:18:45.000 Well, that's not, woke, yes, maybe.

00:18:47.000 I'm saying woke, not even liberal.

00:18:48.000 Right. I'm making that distinction, which I think is a fair distinction.

00:18:52.000 That's another reason, another one we can add to the list of woke is not liberal.

00:18:56.000 And I think left versus liberal or woke versus liberal is an important distinction.

00:19:00.000 Right. I will say what makes you different is few liberals stand up to the woke.

00:19:04.000 That is, few liberals are willing to stand up to woke.

00:19:08.000 Absolutely. And few conservatives stand up to Trump.

00:19:11.000 Fair enough.

00:19:12.000 I mean, you can stand up or disagree, but I guess you can say the question, is Trump, woke is an ideology.

00:19:19.000 Is Trump an ideology?

00:19:21.000 I mean, he's a person.

00:19:22.000 MAGA is an ideology.

00:19:24.000 But, I mean, I disagree with Trump on a lot of stuff.

00:19:26.000 I mean, I don't think we should go to war with Iran.

00:19:28.000 I think that would be a big mistake.

00:19:30.000 Also, when you get to, we're going to send homegrown American citizens to foreign prisons? 0.94

00:19:36.000 Okay, then we switched our conversation to the Maryland dad.

00:19:40.000 Now, mind you, since I sat down with Bill Maher, a lot has happened regarding Mr. Garcia.

00:19:47.000 We have learned that he has MS-13 tattoos on his knuckles.

00:19:51.000 We have learned that he was not too kind to his wife.

00:19:53.000 I believe I mentioned it in this conversation, but it has been even more emphasized in court documents.

00:19:59.000 And so I decided to kind of hear Bill out here, but just to be clear, no U.S. citizen is being disappeared.

00:20:06.000 This was a return of an illegal occupier and invader back to his country of origin, back to where he came from.

00:20:14.000 And again, we have learned a lot since this episode was recorded, so I just want to emphasize that this individual, Garcia, Mr. Garcia, is back in the country where he was born and where he is actually a citizen.

00:20:26.000 We did not take an El Salvadorian and send him to Brazil.

00:20:29.000 We did not take an El Salvadorian and send him to the Congo.

00:20:35.000 We sent him back to his own country. 1.00

00:20:36.000 He's not in a foreign prison.

00:20:38.000 In fact, he looked rather healthy to me when the senator sat down with him.

00:20:42.000 So I think Bill was a little bit off here, but in the spirit of allowing the conversation to pick up some momentum, I didn't want to be too disagreeable.

00:20:48.000 I was trying to interject some facts.

00:20:50.000 And again, you have to weigh these things when you're a guest on somebody's program.

00:20:53.000 Do you want to just be overly disagreeable on every single point?

00:20:57.000 You want to try to have the conversation gain some momentum.

00:21:01.000 You want to try to have the conversation get some flight, to get off the tracks a little bit.

00:21:10.000 Or else you're just going to be disputing every micro point, and then there really isn't much worth to that type of a conversation.

00:21:18.000 Oh, so the thing he said, you mean?

00:21:21.000 Homegrown. To Bukele. 0.99

00:21:22.000 Americans. No, and if he were to do that, I wouldn't support him. 1.00

00:21:25.000 Great. But I think that is a one-liner that he gave to Bukele.

00:21:29.000 I think that is, you met the man.

00:21:32.000 Yes. Do you think he actually believes that, like he would do that?

00:21:36.000 It's worse if he does or would.

00:21:38.000 It's still horrible that an American president would say that.

00:21:43.000 Look me in the eye and tell me if Obama had said that, what your reaction would be.

00:21:47.000 Wouldn't like it.

00:21:49.000 Wouldn't like it.

00:21:50.000 I think it would be a little more vitriolic than that.

00:21:52.000 We would be upset.

00:21:54.000 Apoplectic. Okay.

00:21:57.000 I'm finding out how honest you are, Charlie.

00:21:59.000 And so far, I think you're doing good.

00:22:02.000 And I hope I'm doing good with you.

00:22:04.000 Because if we don't have the honesty, we can't really...

00:22:06.000 Look, but also to be fair to the whole topic in general, the outrage around deportations, as we've seen these last couple of weeks, is like the American people voted for it.

00:22:22.000 It's perfectly legal.

00:22:23.000 Well, they didn't vote for disappearing people without any...

00:22:29.000 So you mean that Maryland case is what you're talking about, right?

00:22:31.000 The guy who they said...

00:22:33.000 The MS-13 member?

00:22:35.000 Well... There's no evidence that he's...

00:22:38.000 They did not present evidence.

00:22:41.000 I mean, I don't really want to get into the weeds on this one because I've got to do it on my show Friday.

00:22:49.000 But the Supreme Court...

00:22:52.000 I guess we have to get into the weeds.

00:22:56.000 There's even new evidence in the last couple of hours that...

00:23:00.000 You lead the conversation.

00:23:03.000 You tell me how deep you want to go on it.

00:23:05.000 None. Okay.

00:23:07.000 I mean, but I hope that if it comes to light, let me button it up this way.

00:23:14.000 I hope that if it does come to light, that there really is no evidence that this guy was a gang member, that he got swept up, which is very understandable that when you do a sweep, when you're doing big things, yes, nothing is going to go perfect.

00:23:27.000 But if it does come to light, I would hope that some Republicans have the spine.

00:23:35.000 To say, yeah, that's not right.

00:23:38.000 This guy should not be there.

00:23:40.000 I mean, the Bill of Rights, it's pretty clear that you can't just disappear people without any sort of trial.

00:23:51.000 Sorry to interrupt.

00:23:52.000 And deportation is not the same thing as sending someone to a prison.

00:23:57.000 But you are allowed to deport under the Alien Enemies Act.

00:24:02.000 Correct. Someone who is part of a... 1.00

00:24:04.000 He's a recognized terrorist organization, which MS-13 is pretty close to a terrorist organization.

00:24:10.000 Yeah, okay.

00:24:11.000 I mean, you know, you're bending all these words.

00:24:14.000 And he's not an American citizen.

00:24:15.000 We've got to acknowledge that.

00:24:16.000 No, absolutely not.

00:24:17.000 So that's important.

00:24:18.000 But he wasn't here illegally either.

00:24:20.000 No, he was.

00:24:21.000 Illegally. The Maryland man.

00:24:22.000 As long as we're not talking about two different cases.

00:24:25.000 We're talking about Garcia.

00:24:26.000 Yes, he was an illegal immigrant to the country.

00:24:29.000 I thought he was waiting for asylum.

00:24:32.000 You get to be illegal waiting for asylum.

00:24:33.000 I see.

00:24:34.000 Okay, so they could deport him.

00:24:36.000 That's right.

00:24:37.000 Yes. But we never did it, but to a prison.

00:24:39.000 It's an edge case.

00:24:40.000 I acknowledge it's on the edge.

00:24:41.000 Okay, good.

00:24:42.000 No, but the edge is, so there's three ways you can deport people.

00:24:46.000 It could be the Alien Enemies Act of 1798.

00:24:49.000 It can be...

00:24:51.000 Used only three times.

00:24:52.000 That's fine, but hey, look, you quote the First Amendment all the time.

00:24:55.000 That's from 1787, right?

00:24:57.000 So old things are important.

00:25:00.000 I'm just saying, just because it's old.

00:25:01.000 But that's been used more than three times.

00:25:04.000 Fair enough.

00:25:05.000 But just because things are old doesn't mean, and I'm not saying you're using that talking point, but some people are trying to invalidate it just because it's old.

00:25:12.000 It's also expedited release.

00:25:13.000 They're trying to invalidate it because it doesn't really apply to this, that it's stretching.

00:25:17.000 I mean, how is MS-13 not a terrorist organization?

00:25:21.000 Yeah, you can make that.

00:25:23.000 Or Trendy Aragua.

00:25:24.000 I mean, organized, it's funding.

00:25:26.000 Because terrorism really...

00:25:28.000 It's a political movement.

00:25:30.000 It means terrorizing the civilian population to achieve a political goal.

00:25:36.000 These guys just want to grab your locket.

00:25:39.000 It's a little more than that.

00:25:41.000 A lot more than that.

00:25:43.000 Look, I've said that all this stuff I don't like about Trump, I did it in my piece the other week when I was talking about the meeting at the White House.

00:25:54.000 No. He was tweeting about me.

00:25:57.000 I've never liked anything.

00:25:58.000 No, check the tape.

00:25:59.000 There are things I like.

00:26:00.000 And one thing I liked was that the police have their morale back maybe now.

00:26:06.000 And, you know, when you live in a city, it's not a good thing when the police lose their morale because they feel like they've been painted with a broad brush, which they were after 2020, you know.

00:26:21.000 And they're like, OK.

00:26:23.000 And I've been very critical of the cops when I think they did bad things.

00:26:26.000 But do I think it's a racist, you know, attack squad?

00:26:32.000 It's not.

00:26:33.000 There's issues.

00:26:34.000 There's always issues in everything.

00:26:35.000 In big organizations.

00:26:36.000 And, you know, when you insult the cops, they have a way of kind of brooding about it.

00:26:43.000 And it's just not a good place to be when you're a city dweller.

00:26:47.000 And so, you know, I don't want to...

00:26:50.000 Be killed by a gang member because they do random killings, you know, just as gang initiation so they can get the teardrop under their eye.

00:27:00.000 OK, I want to be someone's teardrop tattoo, you know, rando out to dinner.

00:27:06.000 So I get it.

00:27:08.000 You know, I mean, these are the things that lost the Democrats the election.

00:27:11.000 100%. You know, you've got to take care of this.

00:27:14.000 And there's real Americans that die.

00:27:16.000 I mean, Rachel Morin, Lakin Riley.

00:27:18.000 There's real, I mean, Jocelyn.

00:27:20.000 Well, probably not at greater rates than are killed by regular Americans.

00:27:25.000 That's debated, but let's just put that aside.

00:27:28.000 They shouldn't be here.

00:27:29.000 And so none of those murders should happen, right?

00:27:31.000 And so, anyway, back to the core question.

00:27:34.000 Does the president have the ability to remove illegals that have come here under an enemy gang? 0.92

00:27:39.000 Of course he does.

00:27:41.000 He has the power given to him by that law.

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00:28:47.000 So, you're 31. What's your background?

00:28:53.000 I'm going to have to like Larry King this.

00:28:56.000 You know, Larry King used to just famously, and I love Larry, I did a show a billion times.

00:29:02.000 He's a legend.

00:29:02.000 Yeah. I never met him.

00:29:04.000 And his thing was like, I don't prepare.

00:29:07.000 I'm like the regular guy who just wants to know.

00:29:10.000 He's curious about this person, so I don't know, so I ask the questions that this person would ask.

00:29:14.000 You, Charlie Kirk, you're 31 years old.

00:29:17.000 You're Jewish, right?

00:29:18.000 No. Yeah, that's Muslim actually.

00:29:23.000 You're married?

00:29:24.000 Yes, sir.

00:29:24.000 How long have you been married?

00:29:25.000 It will be four years in May.

00:29:27.000 Wow. And kids?

00:29:29.000 Two kids, yeah.

00:29:30.000 Two kids already?

00:29:31.000 Yeah. Well, we got to work.

00:29:34.000 Now, Charlie, it shouldn't be work.

00:29:37.000 That's all I'm going to say.

00:29:38.000 I'm kidding.

00:29:38.000 I know.

00:29:39.000 It's an enjoyable work.

00:29:41.000 Okay. We got to the fun, I should say.

00:29:45.000 And you're going to have more?

00:29:47.000 God willing.

00:29:48.000 God willing.

00:29:49.000 Right. Right.

00:29:50.000 And you know we don't see eye to eye on the religion thing.

00:29:53.000 You know, someone told me that.

00:29:54.000 I got to tell you.

00:29:56.000 You should see my movie, Religion.

00:29:57.000 I actually saw it.

00:29:58.000 Oh, really?

00:29:59.000 And to your credit, what you did on Islam was awesome.

00:30:07.000 The other one's not so much.

00:30:09.000 Correct. Secondly, so if you just isolate the Islamic part.

00:30:12.000 But it was funny.

00:30:13.000 Secondly, to your credit, you treated woke like a religion. 0.69

00:30:17.000 Yes. And you criticize them with the same intensity and ferocity you did, and you deserve a lot of credit for that.

00:30:23.000 Oh, thank you.

00:30:24.000 I appreciate it.

00:30:24.000 No, I mean that because you looked at it as this has catechism, it has religious-type undercurrents, it has almost a metaphysical presence to itself, and so you're an equal opportunity critic.

00:30:36.000 Well, I mean, yeah.

00:30:39.000 And it's funny because the director of Religious Larry Charles and I had dinner about a year ago and I suggested, and of course it went nowhere because we're both too old to really act on it, but I said...

00:30:49.000 People keep asking me, and I'm sure him also, to do Religious 2. But when they say it, they think, oh, now we're going to go to India and make fun of the Hindus.

00:30:57.000 I'm like, I'm not doing that.

00:30:58.000 I'm not going to India.

00:31:00.000 And the Hindus aren't that funny. 1.00

00:31:02.000 We did it.

00:31:03.000 The movie did great.

00:31:05.000 And we love that it stands the test of time and people always keep coming up to me and seeing it.

00:31:11.000 Movies are amazing that way.

00:31:12.000 But I said, somebody gave me a great idea.

00:31:15.000 Why don't we do Religious 2?

00:31:18.000 But the religion is wokeness. 0.98

00:31:20.000 And then that's what I was suggested.

00:31:23.000 And I said, yeah, but then you're going to have to do the right side of it, too, because that's also a religion.

00:31:28.000 Christian nationalism.

00:31:29.000 I mean, come on.

00:31:31.000 Your boys, some of the people I think you're fond of, they mix religion and politics in a way that I think is not according to the Constitution.

00:31:44.000 But I have to tell you, I'll give you a lot of credit.

00:31:47.000 I saw a video of yours where you were talking about how Christy the original documents were, which is, you know, I mean, my view is that the founding fathers,

00:32:03.000 we know a number of them were deists.

00:32:06.000 Mostly that was their religion.

00:32:08.000 But you did, and boy, you have your facts down.

00:32:12.000 I mean, you can spiel when you get on a subject like this.

00:32:14.000 I got the shtick down.

00:32:15.000 You really do.

00:32:17.000 And I trust you, you know, I'm going by what you, but, you know, that they were a little Christier than I thought, you know, and I'm always happy to learn new information.

00:32:26.000 And if it doesn't satisfy people that I don't stay exactly where I am, it satisfies the people who are actually my fans, who always want me to do that, to be like, oh, if I take in new information, I mean, that's why, you know, the far left hates me because I went to the White House and said,

00:32:41.000 well, privately, Trump's different.

00:32:43.000 And good for you for saying that.

00:32:45.000 Yeah, and I didn't give an inch on anything I believe.

00:32:48.000 I confronted him on things that I think, you know, he maybe never hears from anybody else, but that's not good enough for them because, you know, they had to...

00:32:57.000 But no, if you take in new information, just tell me.

00:32:59.000 And so I do think, after listening to your spiel, that, yes, they were a little more...

00:33:06.000 Into Jesus than I thought.

00:33:10.000 I mean, I know Jefferson wrote that Bible and took all the miracles out.

00:33:15.000 He took all the religiosity out of it and just made him a moral philosopher.

00:33:21.000 Now, you have to admit, that's not exactly the act of a Christy person.

00:33:25.000 No, but at least he acknowledged that there was something profound there.

00:33:29.000 Got to give him credit for that.

00:33:30.000 I could even acknowledge that.

00:33:31.000 Okay, that's good.

00:33:32.000 I'm glad to hear you say that.

00:33:33.000 Well, Jesus, as a philosopher, was a true revolutionary.

00:33:37.000 I mean, when he said, the meek shall inherit the earth, I think the response was... 1.00

00:33:41.000 Blessed are the peacemakers.

00:33:42.000 Yeah. But the idea that it gets good in the next life was fairly, I think, revolutionary.

00:33:50.000 And the fact that, you know, if you're a good person in this life...

00:33:55.000 There's a much greater order.

00:33:56.000 This is just the pregame.

00:33:58.000 You want the after party.

00:33:59.000 And the after party is just going to be awesome.

00:34:03.000 You're up there with me and my dad, God, and it's just, you know.

00:34:10.000 Okay, so now this is where the conversation about religion started.

00:34:13.000 As you know, I'm a devout Christian.

00:34:15.000 Watching this back, there are a lot of points I wish I would have made.

00:34:19.000 However, I look at the tape and we had a friendly conversation and I didn't want to be overly disagreeable.

00:34:24.000 With that being said, there are definitely some things that I should have inserted.

00:34:28.000 You watch back, you become better, and that's how you improve in life.

00:34:32.000 And so one of us is this, and you'll see this.

00:34:34.000 So whether a religion is good or bad for society doesn't necessarily tell you if it is true.

00:34:39.000 It is important, though.

00:34:40.000 That is a very important conversation of whether or not religion improves society, or if not, it is a good beginning step to argue about the necessity of believing in God.

00:34:50.000 What I should have said is, okay...

00:34:52.000 Because he keeps on using those words.

00:34:58.000 I got into that a little bit where I said, well, what book or what standard should we live by?

00:35:03.000 And he kind of says, I don't know, whatever you want.

00:35:05.000 As you can see in the West today, that kind of belief system leads to widespread self-harm, to widespread misery, to widespread depression.

00:35:15.000 One that I really wish I would have mentioned is the decline in fertility rates and how the West believing in nothing means that the West will believe in anything, which, of course, is a confirmation of a G.K. Chesterton quote.

00:35:28.000 We then kind of get into this idea of, well, if God, why is there evil?

00:35:32.000 Atheists such as Bill Maher have no way of justifying what is evil because they have no objective standard outside of themselves that all people are obligated to obey.

00:35:44.000 Christians, we Christians, explain evil and terrible actions by pointing out that God has given us free will because we need free will to love.

00:35:54.000 I get into that a little bit later.

00:35:56.000 I probably should have been a little bit more precise and a little bit crisper in how I said that.

00:36:00.000 But very simply, no free will, no love.

00:36:03.000 God did not want automatons.

00:36:05.000 The problem is that free will also allows us to do evil.

00:36:10.000 But evil does not disprove God.

00:36:12.000 Evil is actually an argument for God because there would be no evil unless there was an objective standard of good.

00:36:19.000 There would be no objective standard of good unless God existed.

00:36:23.000 I touched on this on the surface, on the edge.

00:36:27.000 I really think at some point I should have just drilled saying, but then it's just preferences and opinions.

00:36:33.000 So God didn't create evil because evil is not a thing.

00:36:36.000 It is a lack.

00:36:37.000 In a good thing.

00:36:38.000 Evil is like a cancer.

00:36:40.000 If you take all the cancer out of a good body, you'll have a better body.

00:36:44.000 But what happens if you try to take out all the body out of the cancer, you'll have nothing.

00:36:49.000 Evil is like rust in a car.

00:36:51.000 If you take out all the rust out of a car, you'll have a better car.

00:36:54.000 What happens if you try to take out all the car out of the rust?

00:36:58.000 Well, again, you'll have nothing.

00:37:00.000 In other words, evil is a parasite in good, and good can only exist in an objective sense if God exists.

00:37:07.000 Let me say it again.

00:37:08.000 If you believe in things that are good or evil objectively, if you believe the Holocaust was objectively wrong, you are appealing to a belief in God. 0.92

00:37:16.000 So contrary to popular opinion, evil does not disprove God.

00:37:20.000 It may show that there is a devil out there, but it can't disprove God.

00:37:24.000 It instead shows that God indeed does exist.

00:37:27.000 What do you think would create a better society or better action?

00:37:32.000 People that think that there isn't afterlife based on how you act or people that think

00:37:36.000 That's a great question because it certainly can turn people either way.

00:37:40.000 It can make you fly planes into a building.

00:37:42.000 I'm not speaking of any specific example.

00:37:45.000 I can't think of anything.

00:37:46.000 I can't either.

00:37:47.000 But it can make you do that.

00:37:48.000 You'll admit that.

00:37:50.000 Sure. It could also make you do, like, blow up Oklahoma City too.

00:37:54.000 Yes. I fully acknowledge.

00:37:56.000 And I fully acknowledge that it also keeps millions of people in line.

00:38:02.000 Like Mark Wahlberg.

00:38:03.000 I'm guessing without Catholicism, he just looks like a guy who would be in a lot more trouble.

00:38:10.000 But I think it just has made his life, you know, much more under control.

00:38:17.000 So there's one.

00:38:19.000 Mark Wahlberg, I think, really benefits from Catholicism.

00:38:23.000 But I think there's lots of people like that.

00:38:26.000 They truly are worried that if they do something out of line, illegal or immoral, that the devil will, in short order after they die, be poking them in the ass with a pitchfork, and so they don't do that.

00:38:39.000 And I've got to give it up.

00:38:41.000 That is a positive.

00:38:43.000 But then the planes and the buildings thing.

00:38:45.000 And that is...

00:38:46.000 On the extremes of, you know, of course, Islam has to defend itself. 0.97

00:38:50.000 I won't, you know, I won't defend Islam. 1.00

00:38:52.000 But are you at all worried that when a nation becomes too secular, it might not know what it believes?

00:39:00.000 There's no cultural cohesion.

00:39:02.000 There's no glue that keeps it together.

00:39:04.000 Yeah, but this isn't detonation.

00:39:06.000 This isn't secular.

00:39:07.000 This is a bunch of fucking religious freaks. 1.00

00:39:09.000 It's increasingly secular, though.

00:39:10.000 Well, thank you.

00:39:11.000 I'm trying.

00:39:13.000 I appreciate it.

00:39:14.000 You are quite the evangelist for your cause of no afterlife and no creator.

00:39:18.000 You know what?

00:39:19.000 It creeps up a little, but people...

00:39:21.000 People always are going to want it.

00:39:24.000 People always are going to want to believe a story.

00:39:27.000 It's much better than the truth, which is that things are random.

00:39:31.000 We don't know the big questions.

00:39:33.000 We don't know how we got here.

00:39:35.000 We don't know why we're here.

00:39:36.000 We don't know how the universe started.

00:39:38.000 We're alone in the universe.

00:39:40.000 Is there a God?

00:39:41.000 What is the nature of God?

00:39:42.000 Which one is the right God?

00:39:44.000 We just don't.

00:39:44.000 Nobody knows.

00:39:45.000 I mean, that's why they call it faith.

00:39:47.000 Do you hope you're wrong?

00:39:50.000 That's the most important question.

00:39:51.000 That's a great question.

00:39:54.000 Well, how...

00:39:56.000 Do you hope there's a heaven?

00:40:02.000 I hope they figure out how I can live forever.

00:40:06.000 I like it here.

00:40:08.000 With you, Charlie.

00:40:09.000 Drinking this and smoking pot.

00:40:12.000 I'm having a great time.

00:40:13.000 I really can't imagine it better.

00:40:15.000 I mean, I can't.

00:40:17.000 And maybe it is.

00:40:18.000 I'm sure it is.

00:40:19.000 I'm sure, you know, people have...

00:40:20.000 But something in you probably hopes that, I don't know, Hitler gets ultimate judgment.

00:40:25.000 Or the most evil things, right?

00:40:28.000 Something in you wants to see your loved ones and...

00:40:31.000 I don't think about Hitler.

00:40:33.000 No, but there's got to be a desire somewhere.

00:40:34.000 A lot of people just think about Hitler.

00:40:38.000 Stalin, Mao.

00:40:39.000 I know, but I'm just saying Hitler comes up a lot.

00:40:42.000 Fair enough.

00:40:43.000 Let's... That there's a desire that there's something beyond this that is just.

00:40:52.000 Okay. Yes, I do.

00:40:54.000 But, I mean, it's very hard to find that justice on Earth.

00:40:57.000 Ask an AIDS baby. 1.00

00:40:59.000 Bill, that's why when you say, hey, I'm happy here, there's a lot of suffering on Earth, too.

00:41:02.000 And that's the Christian argument, right? 0.87

00:41:05.000 And some of it is, you know, we obviously can see it comes from no bad deed done.

00:41:12.000 You know, children with cancer.

00:41:14.000 Of course.

00:41:15.000 And then they say, well, God works in mysterious ways, which is sort of a get-out-of-jail card for any kind of non-thinking.

00:41:22.000 Admittedly, it's the hardest we as Christians have to explain unjust suffering.

00:41:27.000 Atheists have to explain everything else. 0.76

00:41:29.000 How do you explain it?

00:41:30.000 We don't.

00:41:30.000 It's hard.

00:41:31.000 It's a mystery.

00:41:31.000 We can say God works in mysterious ways.

00:41:33.000 We can say original sin.

00:41:34.000 However, we don't have to explain creation or the miracle of life or love or justice.

00:41:42.000 We don't have to explain it either because it's not explainable, because we don't know.

00:41:47.000 We say we don't know.

00:41:48.000 That's honest.

00:41:49.000 You say, no, somebody told a story a long time ago, and we're going to stick with that.

00:41:57.000 As my friend Frank Turek would say, it's impossible to know because of the ripple effect, which is this.

00:42:03.000 We believe in Romans 8, 28. God will work all things for good for those who love him.

00:42:08.000 But this is the idea, that in this world...

00:42:11.000 That every event in this world ripples forward to trillions of other events.

00:42:16.000 Unless you are the all-knowing being and have eternal perspective, how do you know that these tragedies that are objectively evil will not work together for good in the end?

00:42:26.000 Perhaps there are many good things that will come out of tragedies in individual lives that we'll never hear about.

00:42:31.000 In fact, good results may even come from generations from now, unbeknownst to those who will never experience them.

00:42:38.000 Maybe a baby getting cancer today, which is awful and just unspeakable, sends forth a trillion ripples that is partially responsible for bringing forth a great evangelist 500 years from now who saves millions of people.

00:42:52.000 Only God can track all those ripples and only God can weave all those things for good.

00:42:58.000 That to me, I'm not trying to be insulting.

00:43:02.000 You can't offend me, trust me.

00:43:03.000 I mean that.

00:43:03.000 You could be as crude or as blunt.

00:43:05.000 I mean that.

00:43:06.000 But I find that...

00:43:08.000 Intellectually embarrassing.

00:43:09.000 That's fine.

00:43:10.000 So this portion, it gets very technical.

00:43:12.000 And this is all about the dates of the Gospels.

00:43:14.000 Again, I've got to give credit to my friend Frank Turek.

00:43:17.000 In his book, I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist, which I'm going to send a signed copy to Bill Maher, which I think would be great.

00:43:23.000 All the Gospels, we know, were written prior to 70 A.D. They don't mention the Jewish War or the destruction of the city of Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 A.D. This would be like writing a history of the Twin Towers and not mentioning they were destroyed on 9-11.

00:43:40.000 And the Gospel writers write as if the temple and areas of Jerusalem are still standing while they are writing.

00:43:46.000 For example, in John 5-2, it says that there is a pool called Bethesda, which wouldn't have been the case after 70 AD.

00:43:54.000 Dr. Jonathan Bernier authored the most recent complete book on New Testament dating.

00:43:59.000 He concludes that every gospel is prior to 70 AD, with Mark being the earliest at 42 to 45 AD, and every other New Testament book as also prior to 70 AD, with only a few shorter books having an estimated range that passed beyond 70 AD.

00:44:16.000 Matthew, who wrote the gospel, was an apostle he wrote prior to 70 AD, and I thought that was the case when I was sitting down with Bill.

00:44:22.000 But actually, I was like, oh, I think he was an apostle.

00:44:26.000 And I didn't say anything, but it turns out he was an apostle.

00:44:30.000 So Bill is like 5%, right?

00:44:32.000 Paul doesn't quote Jesus very much because he was converted after Jesus ascended to heaven.

00:44:37.000 But here's the truth.

00:44:38.000 The Gospels recorded what Jesus said, so it wasn't necessary.

00:44:42.000 In fact, the restraint of all the epistle writers in not making up quotes from Jesus, which would have been tempting to do in order to resolve disputes among circumcision, which Bill makes fun of, tongues or women in the church, shows that they were being true to Jesus.

00:44:59.000 They weren't inventing things, he said, although it would have been convenient to do so.

00:45:05.000 This is the critical point, everybody.

00:45:07.000 The dating of all the documents are not as important as the dating of the sources.

00:45:13.000 For example, if you write a book about the events of 9-11, right now, 23 years later, the fact that you are interviewing eyewitnesses from that time is more important than when you're writing it down.

00:45:27.000 The same is true of New Testament events.

00:45:30.000 The sources are much earlier than when they were written down.

00:45:33.000 And so here's an excerpt from Frank Turek's book, I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist.

00:45:37.000 Some New Testament books were penned in the 40s and 50s AD, with sources from the 30s, very near the death of Jesus.

00:45:45.000 As certain as we are about the date of Luke's records, there is no doubt from anyone, including the most liberal of scholars, that Paul wrote his first letter to the Church of Corinth, which is in modern-day Greece, sometime between 55 and 56. In this letter,

00:46:02.000 Paul speaks about moral problems in the church and then proceeds to discuss controversies over tongues, prophecies, and the Lord's Supper.

00:46:09.000 This demonstrates that the church in Corinth, with experiencing some kind of miraculous activity, was already observing the Lord's Supper within 25 years of the resurrection.

00:46:19.000 But the most significant aspect of this letter is that it contains the earliest and most authenticated testimony of the resurrection itself.

00:46:27.000 That is the key.

00:46:28.000 The sources themselves, not just what is being written down.

00:46:31.000 In the 15th chapter of 1 Corinthians, Paul writes down the testimony he received from others and the testimony that was authenticated when Christ appeared to him.

00:46:41.000 Quote, For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, and that he was buried, and that he was raised on the third day according to the scriptures, and that he appeared to Peter,

00:46:58.000 then to the twelve.

00:47:00.000 After that, he appeared to more than 500 brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep.

00:47:07.000 And then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and the last of all, as it were, to one untimely born, he appeared to me also.

00:47:17.000 1 Corinthians 15, 3-8.

00:47:19.000 So where did Paul get what he received?

00:47:22.000 He probably received it from Peter and James when he visited them in Jerusalem three years later after his conversion, as we know in Galatians 1-18.

00:47:30.000 Why is this important?

00:47:32.000 Because as the legendary Dr. Gary Habernas points out, even liberal scholars believe that this testimony was part of an early creed that is within one to three years after the resurrection.

00:47:44.000 This is another really important point that...

00:47:46.000 That must be emphasized.

00:47:47.000 This creed is so widely accepted as being so early that New Testament scholar Richard Baucom writes, quote, all scholars recognize here an early tradition that was formulated even before Paul's own call to be an apostle.

00:48:02.000 Gary Habernas cites about 40 additional creeds in the New Testament, which are short, repeatable summaries of historical events or theological doctrines that even illiterate people could remember easily.

00:48:14.000 These include Romans 1, 3-4, 4-25, 10-9, 1 Corinthians 8-6, 11-23-26, Philippians 2-6-11, 1 Thessalonians 9-10, chapter 4,

00:48:31.000 verse 4. Since these creeds predate the writings, when you're reading the New Testament documents, you're reading testimony far closer to the events than the dates of the documents themselves.

00:48:50.000 The creed from, for example, 1 Corinthians 15 goes right back to the time and place of the resurrection.

00:48:56.000 Therefore, it's unlikely to be describing a legend.

00:48:59.000 If there ever was a place that legendary resurrection could not occur, it was Jerusalem.

00:49:04.000 Because the Jews and the Romans were all too eager to squash Christianity and could have easily done so by parading Jesus' body around the city. 0.99

00:49:13.000 Think about that.

00:49:14.000 Think about how easy it would have been to debunk Christianity. 0.64

00:49:17.000 Nope, Christianity's not true. 1.00

00:49:19.000 Here's the body of Jesus.

00:49:20.000 Christianity's not true. 1.00

00:49:21.000 Here's the body of Jesus.

00:49:23.000 Honestly, think about what just happened in El Salvador.

00:49:25.000 Nope, actually, Garcia's alive.

00:49:27.000 Here he is.

00:49:28.000 He's sitting with a senator.

00:49:28.000 Oh, all of a sudden, the people that said he was dead, they shut up really fast.

00:49:31.000 But they didn't do that.

00:49:33.000 Why? Moreover, notice that Paul cites 14 eyewitnesses whose names are known.

00:49:39.000 The 12 apostles, James, and Paul himself.

00:49:42.000 And then references...

00:49:44.000 An appearance to more than 500 others at one time.

00:49:47.000 Included in those groups was one skeptic, James, and one outright enemy, Paul himself.

00:49:52.000 By naming so many people who could verify what Paul was saying, Paul was in effect challenging his Corinthian readers to check him out.

00:50:00.000 Bible scholar William Lilly puts it this way, quote, what gives a special authority to the list as historical evidence is the reference to most of 500 brethren still being alive.

00:50:12.000 St. Paul says, in effect, quote, if you do not believe me, you can ask them, end quote.

00:50:16.000 Such statement in an admittedly genuine letter written within 30 years of the event is almost as strong evidence as one could hope to get for something that happened nearly 2,000 years ago.

00:50:29.000 Let's listen to more of my conversation with Bill Maher.

00:50:32.000 And so, is there any part of the Bible you think is true?

00:50:38.000 Well, true.

00:50:38.000 No, it's an important question, meaning like, when they were documenting King David, like, was King David a real figure?

00:50:43.000 There are shards of it that are, I'm sure.

00:50:47.000 So Jesus was a real person?

00:50:48.000 Well, that we don't know.

00:50:50.000 That is not a definitive.

00:50:51.000 It really is not.

00:50:52.000 And I'll tell you why.

00:50:53.000 And I'm sure you know this.

00:50:55.000 The Gospels are written from...

00:50:58.000 70 AD to 120.

00:51:00.000 Correct. It's about 30 to 40 years after Jesus' life.

00:51:04.000 No, they're from 40 to 70 years after Jesus' life.

00:51:07.000 The earliest one is Mark, and that's the one, 70 AD.

00:51:12.000 It's the destruction of the temple.

00:51:14.000 That's why it's the bleakest one.

00:51:15.000 It's the one that ends with, Father, why have thou forsaken me?

00:51:18.000 Okay, so we see that history does involve itself in what's going on.

00:51:25.000 You kind of have to read between the lines.

00:51:27.000 Here's the question I've asked before here.

00:51:29.000 How come the Gospels, we know everything in the New Testament is either the Gospels or St. Paul.

00:51:35.000 Or the Book of Acts, which is written by Luke.

00:51:37.000 Right, okay.

00:51:38.000 The Book of Acts is the best evidence that Jesus is real.

00:51:41.000 Okay. Go ahead, yeah.

00:51:42.000 But Paul lives in the 50s.

00:51:44.000 He's much closer to Jesus' time.

00:51:46.000 And he knows much less about Jesus.

00:51:49.000 He really doesn't even imagine him as a figure that lived on earth.

00:51:53.000 He's more like a god from heaven.

00:51:55.000 What do you mean by that?

00:51:56.000 I mean, that's in St. Paul.

00:51:58.000 No, he talks about the literal ministry of Christ.

00:52:03.000 He certainly doesn't...

00:52:04.000 Okay, you'd have to show me that because my recollection, and this is from a course in college, is that he was not...

00:52:14.000 That we know very little from St. Paul about Jesus.

00:52:17.000 And he understands Jesus very well.

00:52:19.000 Whereas the gospels written later, they have a lot of information about this guy.

00:52:26.000 And of course, they also penciled in the crucifixion like 300 years later.

00:52:31.000 I mean, the Bible was edited.

00:52:32.000 And the Bible itself is an anthology of books.

00:52:35.000 They didn't-- There's the Dead Sea Scrolls.

00:52:38.000 There were books that didn't make it into the final cut.

00:52:41.000 Book of Enoch, Gospel of Thomas, Gospel of Judas.

00:52:43.000 I fully acknowledge that.

00:52:44.000 The director's cut, right?

00:52:45.000 So, well, there is a lot of contradictory stuff, for example, in the Gospel of Thomas, why it wasn't included that Jesus is in the water, Jesus is in the leaves.

00:52:54.000 But there's other extra-biblical accounts, though, that show that Jesus was a real figure outside of the Bible.

00:53:00.000 He could have been.

00:53:00.000 He's mentioned in the Talmud, for example.

00:53:03.000 He's mentioned in Roman historical documents like Herodotus and many others.

00:53:08.000 Excuse me.

00:53:09.000 Herodotus was Greek.

00:53:10.000 Herodotus was 500 years earlier.

00:53:12.000 Not Herodotus.

00:53:13.000 I'm sorry.

00:53:13.000 I'm thinking of a different...

00:53:14.000 Suetonius? It's a different Roman. 0.70

00:53:16.000 He's Roman.

00:53:16.000 It's a different Roman historian.

00:53:18.000 But Herodotus was the lying father of history.

00:53:20.000 Maybe 100 or 200 years later.

00:53:21.000 Not Herodotus.

00:53:22.000 Okay. Point being is that there were other historical, extra-biblical accounts.

00:53:29.000 Okay. It doesn't even matter to me.

00:53:30.000 Let's contend Jesus was real.

00:53:32.000 Yeah, let's contend.

00:53:33.000 But then, so, the resurrection is the pinnacle of the Christian faith.

00:53:38.000 Of course.

00:53:38.000 Cool. Yes.

00:53:39.000 We're coming up on Easter Sunday.

00:53:41.000 Because if you say, it's probably rational that if Jesus was real, because we know that at least his apostles were real, right?

00:53:48.000 And they likely wouldn't have died the death they had if it wasn't for Jesus' ministry.

00:53:54.000 How do we know the apostles were real?

00:53:56.000 Well, not just because of their own first...

00:53:58.000 Person testimony, but other extra-biblical accounts.

00:54:01.000 We know that the Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John of the Gospels are not the same people who were his apostles, right?

00:54:08.000 Well, Matthew was a tax collector, right?

00:54:12.000 Matthew who wrote in 70 AD was not the Matthew, that's the disciple.

00:54:16.000 Thank you.

00:54:16.000 But Luke was a hired physician.

00:54:19.000 Luke was a physician, yes.

00:54:20.000 Who was hired to write.

00:54:22.000 To Theophilus, who basically a rich guy was like, hey, go find out about this Jesus guy.

00:54:26.000 Right. And basically, you know, Theophilus, lover of God, which is, in my opinion, the most compelling of the two documents.

00:54:33.000 But we do know objectively that, like, Peter was a real person, right?

00:54:38.000 We do?

00:54:39.000 Oh, yeah, without a doubt.

00:54:40.000 Peter, the guy who upon my rock you shall build my church.

00:54:43.000 Yeah, St. Peter's Basilica.

00:54:45.000 I mean, like, we know Paul was real for sure, right?

00:54:48.000 Paul, yes.

00:54:48.000 Yeah, and Paul talks about Peter.

00:54:50.000 Paul talks about Timothy, right?

00:54:51.000 He writes to Timothy.

00:54:52.000 So they have dialogues back and forth about Jesus.

00:54:56.000 But I guess let's just pretend Jesus is real.

00:54:59.000 Yes, okay, he could be.

00:55:01.000 Why fake the resurrection then?

00:55:03.000 No, that's a good question.

00:55:07.000 If you guys want to help out these campuses indirectly, refer someone to Y-Refi. 0.70

00:55:13.000 WhyReFi, they've been great supporters of the show.

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00:55:19.000 Bad credit is accepted.

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00:55:26.000 Go to WhyReFi.com.

00:55:28.000 May not be available in all 50 states.

00:55:29.000 Call 888-YREFI-34 or log on to WhyReFi.com.

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00:55:42.000 Go to yrefy.com, 888-YREFY34, or log on to yrefy.com, Y-R-E-F-Y.com.

00:55:49.000 May not be available in all 50 states, so take a look at it right now, yrefy.com.

00:55:55.000 And then we come all the way back to the resurrection.

00:55:58.000 We just can't get away about talking about that Jesus figure.

00:56:01.000 Bill wants to keep talking about it, I was happy to.

00:56:04.000 So this was one point where I thought I asked a really good question, which is, why on earth would you fake the resurrection?

00:56:10.000 What do you have to gain to fake a resurrection?

00:56:13.000 The resurrection fundamentally went against all the Jewish beliefs.

00:56:16.000 The apostles were Jewish who never believed that a man could claim to be God.

00:56:20.000 That would be blasphemy.

00:56:21.000 You'd be stoned to death.

00:56:23.000 And they didn't think one guy would rise from the dead in the middle of time.

00:56:26.000 But that's what they wound up claiming, and they went to the deaths for that claim.

00:56:31.000 Now, they had no motive to make it up.

00:56:33.000 They didn't get sex. 0.94

00:56:34.000 They didn't get money.

00:56:35.000 They didn't get power.

00:56:36.000 They didn't get land.

00:56:37.000 They didn't get a legion.

00:56:38.000 They had every motive on the planet to say it wasn't true.

00:56:42.000 By saying it was true, they got kicked out of synagogues. 1.00

00:56:45.000 They got beaten.

00:56:46.000 They got tortured.

00:56:47.000 They got killed.

00:56:48.000 Hardly a list of perks.

00:56:49.000 Now, I want you to listen.

00:56:51.000 Bill Maher brings up a very common talking point, saying, like, look, some people can have mass delusion.

00:56:58.000 This is Bill Maher bringing up the Hale-Bopp people. 1.00

00:57:01.000 Listen to him mention this, and then I respond.

00:57:05.000 If you are a follower, let's think about this, because it is probably the most important event in human history.

00:57:10.000 Well, you didn't have to fake it.

00:57:12.000 I mean, you do realize that there were religions going around the Mediterranean for a thousand years where the gods had...

00:57:20.000 The same biography or significant parts of the biography of Jesus.

00:57:25.000 It's in Religious.

00:57:26.000 We put them all.

00:57:27.000 Gods who were born on December 25th, and I could go into the reason for that.

00:57:32.000 Gods who had disciples.

00:57:34.000 Gods who were crucified on some sort of tree.

00:57:37.000 That had virgin births. 0.70

00:57:39.000 Had virgin births.

00:57:40.000 Because they were hearkening back to Old Testament prophecy, for sure.

00:57:43.000 Okay, but no, these were all sorts of religions around the Mediterranean, not just the Judeo-Christian.

00:57:48.000 These are the Persian religions.

00:57:50.000 This was Indian, and that's a very common part of it, is died and came back to life. 1.00

00:57:57.000 It's obviously something primitive men would have thought about all over the world. 0.69

00:58:01.000 The fact that they put this into this new religion, which is something that the people of the time would have been familiar with, these concepts.

00:58:09.000 Again, that's why they made his birthday December 25th, because that was already a huge pagan holiday.

00:58:20.000 But let's just take the resurrection, though.

00:58:22.000 Why would the apostles willingly go and spread what then became their death certificate?

00:58:29.000 Why would they go and do that if it didn't actually happen?

00:58:32.000 Like, take Paul.

00:58:32.000 We both agree Paul was legit and a real person.

00:58:35.000 Paul was a Jew, persecuted Jews, and then had his, you know, road to Damascus moment.

00:58:40.000 Why would he do that?

00:58:43.000 Except for the fact that he's crazy or, like, delusional.

00:58:47.000 What incentive would Paul have to do that?

00:58:49.000 Rich, ruling class, gave up everything.

00:58:53.000 You know, you're saying to me, is there never a case of human delusion or mass delusion?

00:59:03.000 There are suicide cults, of course.

00:59:04.000 I acknowledge that.

00:59:05.000 I'm going to answer your question.

00:59:07.000 Do you remember the Hale Comet cult?

00:59:15.000 Heaven's Gate cult?

00:59:16.000 No, I mean, I know Jonestown cult.

00:59:18.000 That's different.

00:59:19.000 This was like 1997, and they believed, there was this bunch of people in San Diego, and they believed that when the Hale-Bopp comet passed at a certain place, that the spaceship was going to pick them up,

00:59:37.000 but their souls, they had to be dead.

00:59:40.000 And they committed mass suicide neatly.

00:59:43.000 They were living normal lives, going to jobs, saying, I'm sorry, we're going to have to change gates for your flight.

00:59:52.000 And then they went home and put on purple shrouds and Nikes. 0.55

00:59:58.000 That I do know of, yes.

00:59:59.000 And mass suicide killed themselves.

01:00:01.000 And you're asking me about, could humans believe?

01:00:06.000 Something that wasn't true?

01:00:08.000 Yes, they could.

01:00:09.000 It doesn't take a hell of a lot.

01:00:11.000 People want to believe, and it's a very enticing thought, that this life, which possibly isn't that great, if I just give up this one, which is not that much, I can get this awesome one.

01:00:26.000 The capacity, the human capacity.

01:00:29.000 To believe what's not true, to believe what you want to believe, is infinite.

01:00:34.000 I mean, you are literally the person I'm talking about at the very beginning of the movie Religious, because the very first scene, I'm sitting in the car and I'm saying, the movie is not a spiritual quest.

01:00:47.000 I mean, that's what we told them, so they'd sign the release.

01:00:50.000 The movie is me saying, I don't know how it could be.

01:00:54.000 That so many intelligent people can wall off a part of their mind and believe in something that part of their mind must know is not true.

01:01:03.000 That's the question I'm going for in religion.

01:01:06.000 And like, you're obviously a super smart guy.

01:01:08.000 And respectfully, go ahead, sure.

01:01:09.000 And again, I don't want to insult you on this.

01:01:11.000 And I appreciate you saying that.

01:01:13.000 No, I mean, have you seen me go to college campuses?

01:01:15.000 There's nothing that can fit.

01:01:16.000 Right, but you understand my question, right?

01:01:19.000 Interestingly, ironically, I have the same...

01:01:22.000 I don't know how somebody as intelligent as you, and I'm not trying to offend you.

01:01:26.000 You cannot believe in a virgin birth?

01:01:28.000 No, hold on.

01:01:29.000 All of that takes faith, I acknowledge, but that all of the fine-tuning of our universe, if any of those fine-tunings were off, a famous scientist said to believe that the universe and the Earth in its current composition was an act of randomness.

01:01:48.000 Would believe that a hurricane would go through a junkyard and assemble a 737 flight-ready Boeing.

01:01:53.000 He's wrong.

01:01:54.000 Okay, that's fine.

01:01:55.000 But there are so many fine-tuning aspects to our existence that I think defy the idea that this is all randomness and all chance.

01:02:05.000 You know that's not logical.

01:02:07.000 You're saying because I don't know the answer, I'm going to assume the answer must be that a divine intervention did it.

01:02:16.000 That's not really a scientific way of looking at it.

01:02:19.000 So the teleological view, not the cosmological view, is that all of these fine tunings, when layered up one after the other, it defies, I think, reason to think that this is just a roll of the dice.

01:02:33.000 That when you see a baby come into the world, when you see how we naturally heal, even consciousness itself, I think, is a pretty miraculous thing.

01:02:42.000 To think that's all just...

01:02:44.000 A bunch of happy accidents.

01:02:47.000 I think it's more rational to think that that's a byproduct of design.

01:02:51.000 You're saying some prime mover made it so these things happen.

01:02:56.000 I would say if a prime mover could do that, skip all the suffering and why don't you just get us to where we're the perfect thing.

01:03:07.000 Why you need things, I don't know.

01:03:09.000 But okay, the perfect being right away.

01:03:11.000 We're somehow on this journey to being completely immortal and healthy, I guess, and completely moral.

01:03:22.000 and don't fuck each other up and don't have sex with children and all the bad things we do. 0.94

01:03:27.000 All the evil of our world.

01:03:28.000 Yeah, all the evil and the Holocaust. 0.99

01:03:30.000 And why go through all that if you are a prime mover?

01:03:34.000 I assume that means you can do anything and just get us right to the end.

01:03:38.000 And then we can just, what, why?

01:03:40.000 Just a bunch of us walking around being perfect.

01:03:43.000 I mean, why is that interesting to a God?

01:03:45.000 You know, the whole thing just don't make sense.

01:03:49.000 So, that's a separate question, though, of whether or not there is...

01:03:52.000 Something behind our existence.

01:03:54.000 I mean, so we believe that the universe started with a big bang.

01:03:57.000 Do you agree with that?

01:03:58.000 Yeah, but that's not the beginning of things.

01:04:01.000 That's just the beginning of what the known universe is.

01:04:03.000 The big question is, what was before that?

01:04:05.000 And we believe it's a being, a god.

01:04:09.000 That's always, that's a constant.

01:04:10.000 And look, I mean, you know, the misnomer about atheism is that we say, oh, there's no god.

01:04:19.000 No, we just say we don't know.

01:04:22.000 As Richard Dawkins always says, there's theism, which is belief in gods, and they used to believe in many, and then it got to one, and we just believe in one less.

01:04:31.000 So there's just not a...

01:04:33.000 How would you differentiate that from agnosticism?

01:04:36.000 There isn't.

01:04:36.000 That's another thing that's...

01:04:38.000 No, I'm just asking a good faith question.

01:04:41.000 No, I think a lot of atheists think that.

01:04:43.000 A lot of people on my team with this, they have that view that, you know, don't split hairs with the atheists and the agnostics.

01:04:50.000 It's like...

01:04:50.000 We're on some part of, I don't know, and I'll never know, so I really don't think about it a lot.

01:04:57.000 I don't get up for church.

01:04:58.000 I try to be a good person because I just think intrinsically it's good for society.

01:05:04.000 It's good for me to be a good person as much as I can.

01:05:08.000 And I don't need the threat of the pitchfork in the air to do it.

01:05:13.000 Can I ask a question?

01:05:15.000 How? But you even acknowledge, though, that...

01:05:20.000 Some people act better if they feel as if they'll be judged eternally.

01:05:24.000 Totally. Okay, no, that's a big admission.

01:05:26.000 Oh, yes.

01:05:27.000 But how do you think society best determines what is good?

01:05:33.000 That's a great question.

01:05:34.000 I mean, isn't that what government is always wrestling with?

01:05:38.000 What makes society good?

01:05:39.000 Do you think, even as an atheist, the Ten Commandments, the right side of the Ten Commandments is a good place to start?

01:05:45.000 The right side.

01:05:46.000 Well, because the left side, I think you'd have a big problem, right?

01:05:48.000 I have a problem with...

01:05:49.000 With eight of the ten, because only two of them are laws.

01:05:53.000 You've got a problem with eight of the ten.

01:05:54.000 Two of them are laws.

01:05:55.000 Only two.

01:05:56.000 What do you mean?

01:05:57.000 Don't kill.

01:05:58.000 And don't steal.

01:05:58.000 Okay. And don't steal.

01:06:00.000 Sure. Like, I mean, this idea that God is this.

01:06:04.000 But you're good with those two, obviously.

01:06:05.000 Like, the first four are just jealous God.

01:06:08.000 It's just like, you know what?

01:06:10.000 No, honoring your parents is not jealous God stuff.

01:06:12.000 God's like a pimp who was in the next room, and he said, who you on the phone with there, girl?

01:06:18.000 You know, I mean, I guess I'm testing them.

01:06:22.000 Hold on, but no, again, I'm not offendable on this, but I think you could have, I know you made fun of it in Religious, but there's something beautiful about not working for a day.

01:06:31.000 Oh, a day?

01:06:32.000 You know what I mean, like honoring the Sabbath?

01:06:33.000 Oh, a week is even better.

01:06:36.000 Well, the Sabbath, no. 0.94

01:06:38.000 I mean, the Sabbath is...

01:06:39.000 But slowing down and saying that...

01:06:41.000 We're not going to toil for a day.

01:06:43.000 But why would you need a religion to get to that?

01:06:46.000 Why would you need a religion to, hey, let's not kill each other and take a day off?

01:06:53.000 Again, I don't need a threat or a carrot for that.

01:06:57.000 It's just so intrinsic.

01:06:59.000 It sort of reminds me of the beginning of the Declaration of Independence.

01:07:02.000 If it's intrinsic, then why is it that a lot of countries that don't have Christianity struggle to come to these?

01:07:11.000 For example, you know, communist China.

01:07:14.000 No Hitler analogies, right?

01:07:16.000 Under Mao, which was resolutely atheist, right? 0.90

01:07:20.000 Resolutely. Well, no.

01:07:23.000 I did a monologue in Religious.

01:07:24.000 They might have Confucianism underlying it.

01:07:26.000 I did a monologue in Religious about that very subject, which is the people who say, oh, Bill, these atheistic societies like North Korea.

01:07:37.000 And no.

01:07:39.000 Those kind of societies, they just replaced the leader of the country for a god.

01:07:45.000 They are not atheistic.

01:07:46.000 When you look at what the North Korean people believe about Kim Jong-un...

01:07:51.000 It's a deification.

01:07:52.000 When he was born, winter turned to spring.

01:07:58.000 He'll be immortal in the heavens.

01:08:00.000 The first time he played golf, he got 11 holes in one.

01:08:03.000 He invented the hamburger.

01:08:05.000 That's more improbable than a virgin birth.

01:08:07.000 It is.

01:08:08.000 It really is.

01:08:09.000 I'm not making this up.

01:08:10.000 But they believe that.

01:08:11.000 So don't tell me North Korea is atheistic.

01:08:14.000 They're not atheistic.

01:08:15.000 But there is a...

01:08:18.000 In China, at least, and of course in the Soviet Union, there was an anti-Christian movement.

01:08:25.000 Very hard.

01:08:25.000 Very hardcore.

01:08:27.000 Hardcore. As there was in Syria. 1.00

01:08:30.000 Sure. Most of the Islamic countries that, you know, I mean, we hear a lot about.

01:08:35.000 So I guess like what code, and I'm not saying this sarcastically, like what code, what book do you think is best for humanity to live by?

01:08:41.000 I say the Bible.

01:08:43.000 What would you say?

01:08:45.000 No, it's an important, it's an important philosophical question.

01:08:48.000 I have a book.

01:08:49.000 Called Not the Bible.

01:08:51.000 I'm not kidding.

01:08:52.000 There's literally...

01:08:53.000 So not loving your neighbor and not like, you know, helping them.

01:08:55.000 No, no.

01:08:55.000 There's a lot of good stuff there.

01:08:56.000 Okay, but again...

01:08:58.000 Let me tell you why I'm asking.

01:08:59.000 You're cherry picking.

01:09:01.000 Come on, Charlie.

01:09:02.000 The story of the Bible is one of love and redemption.

01:09:05.000 There's a lot in the Bible.

01:09:07.000 It is.

01:09:07.000 It's a story of love.

01:09:08.000 The Old Testament?

01:09:10.000 Well, the entire arc of the Bible is a story of love and a need for humans' redemption.

01:09:15.000 Well, that's a charitable way of looking at it, and that's in there.

01:09:18.000 There's a lot of things in there because it's a giant anthology over centuries of many different writers.

01:09:23.000 There is a lot in the Bible.

01:09:24.000 It wasn't written by God, right?

01:09:26.000 There's a book of the Bible I think you'd love.

01:09:28.000 What? Song of Solomon.

01:09:30.000 Song of Solomon.

01:09:31.000 Crossley, Sills, and Nash?

01:09:33.000 Song of Solomon's all about sex.

01:09:35.000 I know.

01:09:35.000 It is?

01:09:36.000 Yeah. Quote it.

01:09:38.000 I can't.

01:09:38.000 It's not appropriate, no.

01:09:40.000 What? It's too dirty for a podcast?

01:09:43.000 It literally is about how a husband and wife can grow intimate to one another.

01:09:49.000 Oh, can you tell me that?

01:09:51.000 Can you give me the cheat sheet on that one?

01:09:52.000 Oh, I'm telling you, the Bible has wisdom in ways you might never imagine, Bill.

01:09:56.000 But no, what I'm getting at, though, is that this is not a gotcha or a sarcasm.

01:10:01.000 I mean this.

01:10:01.000 Like, humanity will seek to find a book.

01:10:04.000 They'll seek to find a code to live by.

01:10:06.000 And I think it's incumbent on atheists to tell us what that should be. 1.00

01:10:10.000 I agree with the first part of that.

01:10:12.000 Humanity will seek to find.

01:10:14.000 Seek to know.

01:10:15.000 That's Aristotle's first...

01:10:16.000 Well... Seek to find something that mollifies their feelings.

01:10:20.000 That's different than knowing.

01:10:23.000 No, they don't really care about knowing.

01:10:25.000 They care about mollifying their feelings.

01:10:28.000 I feel empty.

01:10:29.000 What will make me feel better?

01:10:32.000 This book that purports to have answers, it couldn't possibly have.

01:10:36.000 But it does make me feel better because now I don't have to wonder about things that are very problematic to worry about.

01:10:43.000 Like, how did I get here and what does it all mean?

01:10:46.000 And why do, you know, kids get cancer when they're two for no reason?

01:10:50.000 And I don't have an answer.

01:10:51.000 I know, I'm just saying.

01:10:53.000 And I acknowledge that.

01:10:53.000 But this book has the answers to that question.

01:10:56.000 Don't ask.

01:10:57.000 Okay? Don't ask, A. And B, God works in mysterious ways, and that's the end of it.

01:11:04.000 Go to your room.

01:11:05.000 I think it's a little deeper than that.

01:11:07.000 But it is.

01:11:09.000 I mean, it is deeper.

01:11:10.000 Of course, it's that, hey, why are we here?

01:11:12.000 Why were we created?

01:11:13.000 But fair enough.

01:11:14.000 I do want to know, though.

01:11:15.000 But, like, what?

01:11:17.000 I don't got it for you.

01:11:18.000 We don't have it, and we don't claim to have it.

01:11:20.000 But that's a big problem, though.

01:11:22.000 And let me pause, because the Bible was the document, as you acknowledged, that our founders read and believed that built this beautiful society that you and I both love.

01:11:34.000 And I think it's treading on dangerous if we want to, A, cut our roots without an alternative, because if we cut our roots, then we get all this other counterfeit stuff of wokeism and all this postmodernist garbage.

01:11:47.000 So our contention is, let's go back to where we came from.

01:11:52.000 You know who Eugene O'Neill is?

01:11:56.000 No? Eugene O'Neill?

01:11:58.000 Uh, no.

01:11:59.000 Oh, wow.

01:12:01.000 Kids today.

01:12:02.000 A giant of American literature, theater, A Long Day's Journey Into Night.

01:12:08.000 Have you heard of that play?

01:12:09.000 Never heard of A Long Day's Journey Into Night?

01:12:12.000 You kids, what are they doing with you in school?

01:12:14.000 I never went to college, Bill.

01:12:15.000 This is the problem.

01:12:16.000 Okay. Anyway, he once said, um, a life...

01:12:21.000 I find a life with illusions unpardonable and a life without illusions unbearable.

01:12:30.000 And that's the essence of where we are.

01:12:33.000 You choose the second.

01:12:35.000 I choose the first.

01:12:36.000 I find a life with illusions unpardonable.

01:12:39.000 I just can't do it.

01:12:40.000 Okay? And you find a life without illusions unbearable.

01:12:45.000 And the fact that we can, I think, come to this moment where we go, okay.

01:12:51.000 That's you, type A. I'm type B. And still be friends.

01:12:55.000 To me, this is the future of where this country has to go.

01:12:58.000 And nothing you have said has offended me.

01:13:00.000 And I appreciate that.

01:13:03.000 Because, again, that was my question in religion.

01:13:06.000 How can otherwise really super smart people?

01:13:10.000 But this is the answer.

01:13:13.000 Can I interrupt?

01:13:14.000 Do you doubt those of us that have had religious experiences?

01:13:17.000 Do you think it's just like neurological phenomenon?

01:13:19.000 How would you define it?

01:13:21.000 If I say that Jesus changed my life and he's gone to work in my soul.

01:13:25.000 Okay, but was he like, did he jump in the car with you at the drive-thru?

01:13:31.000 No, but...

01:13:32.000 Okay, you said a religious experience.

01:13:34.000 I have to ask how much that is.

01:13:37.000 There was a moment where I realized that I'm not all that I would ever want to be, that I fall short of the glory of God's wish.

01:13:44.000 When was this?

01:13:45.000 When I was in fifth grade, actually.

01:13:47.000 Fifth grade?

01:13:47.000 Really? Yeah.

01:13:49.000 That's when I gave my life to the Lord.

01:13:51.000 You were thinking about this in fifth grade?

01:13:53.000 Amazingly. I went to Christian school.

01:13:55.000 So you don't see that as indoctrination?

01:13:58.000 Well, you know, I actually went to a private school previously, but they didn't force it on us, to their credit.

01:14:04.000 No, but you said you were in a Christian school.

01:14:06.000 Okay, you're 10. You're in a Christian school.

01:14:09.000 There's no connection of, like, maybe at a very early age, they put a chip in your brain?

01:14:15.000 I mean, I still had to make the decision for myself.

01:14:18.000 And there's a lot of kids that went to that school that aren't Christians anymore.

01:14:22.000 By the way, I went to Catholic.

01:14:24.000 I was raised Catholic.

01:14:26.000 Didn't stick.

01:14:27.000 I had the opposite reaction to catechism, which was religious training we would go to on Sunday morning, where you would learn how to be a good Catholic.

01:14:36.000 And it just really turned me off.

01:14:39.000 Was it too forceful, too legalistic?

01:14:42.000 All of it.

01:14:42.000 I mean, it was just a giant...

01:14:44.000 I mean, I was used to a room with 20 kids in it at regular school.

01:14:48.000 And then on Sunday, there's, like, 60 kids.

01:14:50.000 And they're from different schools.

01:14:52.000 And they're just, like...

01:14:53.000 And the nuns were, like, mean. 1.00

01:14:56.000 Because you've got 60 kids that you don't really know.

01:14:58.000 You have to, like...

01:14:58.000 And, of course, they're mean to begin with.

01:15:00.000 To, like, get them in order.

01:15:02.000 And they scared you.

01:15:04.000 And they yelled at you.

01:15:05.000 And they hit you with a ruler on the knuckles.

01:15:07.000 I really...

01:15:08.000 I'm from that era where they still, like, hit you on the...

01:15:11.000 You know how often I hear the rulers from, like, scorned Catholics? 1.00

01:15:16.000 The ruler is, like, a very common thing.

01:15:18.000 It just wasn't a way to get me into the tent.

01:15:20.000 You know what I mean?

01:15:22.000 So, I don't know.

01:15:25.000 You know, maybe on my deathbed, the Catholics will come back, because I've heard people say, like, once they drill that into your mind, I mean, to this day, if I walk into a church, and I have no reason to, but we did for religious, 0.54

01:15:41.000 There is a certain weird feeling.

01:15:44.000 I mean, you can't be that young and that malleable in the mind and not have some things just resonate forever.

01:15:55.000 What do you feel?

01:15:57.000 Fear. I just feel fear when I walked into the church that I...

01:16:04.000 Went to as a kid to film that scene in Religious with my mother and ask her why she never told me until I was 13 that she was Jewish.

01:16:14.000 And that's why she wasn't going to church with us.

01:16:17.000 Yeah, I felt fear because it just comes back to you.

01:16:21.000 Like when I was sitting in those pews, like that's what I felt was fear.

01:16:25.000 Like either the nuns or the priest or my father, somebody was going to be mad at me for something.

01:16:33.000 Because that's how Catholicism is.

01:16:35.000 I mean, that's the, again, the idea that you keep people in line.

01:16:40.000 It's by fear.

01:16:40.000 That's why you're keeping people in line.

01:16:43.000 And that's a question an atheist really, I think, is due to ask a religious person.

01:16:48.000 Do you really think fear is the best way for us to grow and become good people?

01:16:54.000 Because if that's how we're doing it, I do have a problem with the methodology, even if I believed in the religion.

01:17:00.000 I hear that from a lot of people that were raised Catholic.

01:17:04.000 No, I do.

01:17:08.000 I'm sorry, it's true.

01:17:09.000 It's so true about the Catholic thing. 0.99

01:17:11.000 I'm sorry.

01:17:12.000 No, no, you're right.

01:17:13.000 I didn't mean to, you know, did I do an exorcism or something?

01:17:16.000 Trust me, we have a whole highlight reel of spit takes.

01:17:19.000 It's the highlight of any show.

01:17:21.000 If the guest doesn't make me do a spit take, we consider this a failure.

01:17:27.000 But you did, so go on.

01:17:28.000 But yes, Catholics, yes, that's exactly who you would hear that from.

01:17:33.000 It's an under-emphasis on grace.

01:17:36.000 Grace. What is grace?

01:17:38.000 It's such a vague term.

01:17:40.000 So justice is getting what you deserve.

01:17:43.000 Me personally?

01:17:44.000 Yeah, we believe all humanity deserves damnation and judgment.

01:17:48.000 Tough, tough stuff.

01:17:49.000 And it started in the garden.

01:17:50.000 Stuff. Oh, you believe in the garden?

01:17:53.000 You believe in the Old Testament?

01:17:55.000 Oh, yeah.

01:17:55.000 I'm one of those Christians.

01:17:58.000 Like 6,000 years old thing?

01:18:00.000 Not necessarily.

01:18:02.000 Because in religious, I went to see the...

01:18:04.000 I'm not necessarily...

01:18:05.000 I went to see the museum that they have in...

01:18:07.000 Oh, yeah, Ken Ham's deal.

01:18:09.000 Ken Ham, yes, and we interviewed Ken.

01:18:11.000 He was not happy.

01:18:12.000 You've got to admit, the Ark is pretty impressive.

01:18:14.000 Have you seen the Ark?

01:18:14.000 They built a whole Ark there.

01:18:15.000 We were there for a whole day.

01:18:17.000 I don't know.

01:18:17.000 I can't remember if it was before or after the Ark.

01:18:20.000 No, no, it was.

01:18:21.000 That's impressive.

01:18:22.000 And Jesus riding the dinosaur.

01:18:25.000 Yeah, I don't know about that.

01:18:26.000 Jesus riding the dinosaur.

01:18:28.000 Do I really need to elaborate, people?

01:18:31.000 Okay, go ahead with your thing.

01:18:33.000 Judgment is getting what you deserve.

01:18:35.000 Mercy is getting less what you deserve.

01:18:37.000 Wait, wait.

01:18:39.000 Mercy is getting less than what you deserve.

01:18:41.000 Yeah, so we believe Jesus gives us grace.

01:18:43.000 So you get a prison sentence, you get judgment.

01:18:46.000 You get mercy, you get less of a prison sentence.

01:18:48.000 Grace would be Jesus serving that prison sentence for you so you could live life eternal.

01:18:53.000 How is he serving that?

01:18:55.000 Oh, you mean like in the big picture?

01:18:56.000 Well, because we believe him living a perfect life.

01:18:59.000 And then suffering the death that he did on the cross was him atoning for our sins.

01:19:06.000 Of course.

01:19:06.000 The sins of humanity.

01:19:07.000 Jesus. Yeah.

01:19:08.000 Which is a big claim, albeit, and a very compelling one, which we also believe one to be true, because it redeems all of humanity, of our shortfalling of the glory of God.

01:19:17.000 I got to say, it's really picking up the check for the whole table, you know.

01:19:22.000 I mean, you gotta give it to your boy for, like, all of our sins.

01:19:27.000 It's a very generous thing.

01:19:29.000 But what it does is it is, at its core, a statement of human equality, that we're all sinners.

01:19:34.000 We're all screwed up.

01:19:35.000 We all got problems.

01:19:36.000 We all got vices.

01:19:37.000 And, like, no one, no matter what you do, we all fall short of God's standard.

01:19:43.000 And Jesus makes us whole.

01:19:45.000 But how do you think this view of life reflects your politics?

01:19:51.000 And how much should it?

01:19:53.000 And how much does it?

01:19:56.000 Look at me.

01:19:57.000 Big pothead just turned into a real interviewer.

01:19:59.000 I love it.

01:20:00.000 It's a Larry King.

01:20:01.000 I'm coming full circle here.

01:20:05.000 You and I both agree it's very difficult to have separation of morality and state.

01:20:11.000 Correct. So my morals come from the Bible.

01:20:14.000 Right. And that definitely influences my public policy decisions.

01:20:19.000 Mine come from Playboy After Dark.

01:20:21.000 Is that a problem?

01:20:22.000 It's a little bit different than, let's just say, the Book of Deuteronomy.

01:20:29.000 Oh, well, that's full of crazy.

01:20:31.000 Oh, okay, yeah.

01:20:32.000 The Book of Deuteronomy?

01:20:33.000 Well, there's some good stuff in there.

01:20:36.000 I love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, strength, and mind.

01:20:39.000 That's good.

01:20:39.000 Yeah, also, like, no poking in the wrong hole.

01:20:43.000 You're going to have to ask.

01:20:45.000 A rabbinic Jew about that. 0.96

01:20:47.000 Well, I think it's Deuteronomy.

01:20:51.000 That's Leviticus.

01:20:52.000 Do not lie with another man.

01:20:54.000 Right. Yeah, that's Leviticus 19. No, and that is wrong.

01:20:58.000 Thou shall not lie with another man.

01:20:59.000 Do not lie to another man.

01:21:00.000 Because if you lie to a gay man, ooh, you are going to pay for it. 1.00

01:21:05.000 That's rough stuff.

01:21:06.000 But lie with another man, that should be everybody's right, don't you think? 1.00

01:21:10.000 Personally, you have a right to do what you would like to do personally.

01:21:14.000 With another person.

01:21:15.000 But I, as a Christian, do not believe that would be holy.

01:21:18.000 I think it would be sinful.

01:21:20.000 But that's just, that's a personal, I don't want to get too deep in it.

01:21:23.000 That's a personal theological.

01:21:25.000 No, we need to get a little deeper into this.

01:21:27.000 Because it's so important just to understand.

01:21:33.000 You've heard me talk about my patriot supply because I trust them when it comes to my family's well-being.

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01:22:22.000 Let me ask you what you believe.

01:22:24.000 I believe that some people, Decided minority, maybe one out of 20, probably.

01:22:34.000 For whatever reason, that nature, this perfect nature that you describe as perfect.

01:22:38.000 Well, it was designed perfect.

01:22:39.000 It's all screwed up now.

01:22:40.000 Okay. No, I mean, we have disease and we have, you know, all sorts of stuff.

01:22:45.000 We've got Down syndrome.

01:22:46.000 We've got all sorts of problems.

01:22:46.000 Well, then it wasn't designed perfect because it's screwed up.

01:22:49.000 You know what we believe, though.

01:22:50.000 We believe there was a rebellion and a contamination of nature.

01:22:53.000 Right. That is sin.

01:22:55.000 Right. Okay.

01:22:56.000 If they hadn't eaten the apple.

01:22:58.000 Well, we actually don't know it's an apple, but yes, it's infertile.

01:23:01.000 It very well could have been a mango.

01:23:03.000 Well, you know...

01:23:04.000 I know.

01:23:05.000 No, don't get me started on mangoes, so...

01:23:07.000 As they say in West Hollywood, there's nothing like having a mango in your mouth.

01:23:12.000 It's George Costanza's favorite fruit, but yes, so...

01:23:15.000 But... Oh, damn, man.

01:23:17.000 What was the point of...

01:23:18.000 You were talking...

01:23:19.000 Tell me.

01:23:20.000 Something about Deuteronomy.

01:23:22.000 Homosexuality, is that what you want to talk about?

01:23:23.000 Yes, homosexuality. 0.97

01:23:24.000 As we're keeping it on the lighter topics.

01:23:26.000 Thank you.

01:23:27.000 So about 1 out of 20 people, maybe even 1 out of 10, I don't know.

01:23:30.000 And then people will say there's a spectrum, maybe there's that too.

01:23:33.000 Of course, there are, there is.

01:23:34.000 Some people are like, you know, what their kids call zesty.

01:23:40.000 You know, not gay, but kind of on the waiting list. 1.00

01:23:43.000 Okay, but let's say just gay. 0.97

01:23:45.000 Like people who are just not attracted to the opposite sex, they're attracted and want to have sex with people of their own sex. 0.79

01:23:54.000 Would you agree that that happens in nature?

01:23:57.000 Yeah, of course it does, yes.

01:23:58.000 There are instances of species in the animal kingdom that do that.

01:24:02.000 Absolutely. I acknowledge this.

01:24:05.000 And we are in the animal kingdom.

01:24:06.000 In fact, we're number one with a bullet.

01:24:09.000 Okay, so given that we both agree that that's a phenomenon that exists.

01:24:14.000 There's other things that happen in nature that aren't so good, too.

01:24:17.000 But just, yes, that's correct.

01:24:19.000 Like on a par with this?

01:24:20.000 No, I'm just saying, just to say that it happens in the species of the animal kingdom doesn't make it.

01:24:27.000 But what's immoral about...

01:24:30.000 I don't understand why the...

01:24:33.000 in itself, ipso facto, is immoral.

01:24:37.000 It's just an...

01:24:38.000 And the fact that some people want to...

01:24:41.000 in there, I've done a million jokes about it.

01:24:44.000 I don't get that.

01:24:45.000 I mean, it's where the...

01:24:46.000 comes out.

01:24:46.000 I just don't get it.

01:24:48.000 If even I was gay, I'd find another way. 0.61

01:24:51.000 But that's just me.

01:24:52.000 But they do want to do it.

01:24:54.000 Why is there a moral dimension to this?

01:24:59.000 Again, I believe Scripture is God-breathed.

01:25:02.000 It's what the Bible says.

01:25:03.000 Okay, because the Bible says.

01:25:04.000 Yeah, I do.

01:25:05.000 Correct. But you do know, like, the, you know...

01:25:08.000 Argument from people like me, that kind of logical argument, is that, well, these books were really not written by a god.

01:25:14.000 They were written by men, and it reflected...

01:25:17.000 Well, of course they were transcribed by men, obviously.

01:25:18.000 It reflected the primitive views of people in that era who would, of course, have had primitive views.

01:25:25.000 They also didn't understand germs or atoms.

01:25:28.000 So their views on this were primitive, and they believed that there was something...

01:25:34.000 Wrong with that.

01:25:35.000 I get it, that it was different than most of the people in the tribe, that, you know, these two guys are going off and doing it.

01:25:42.000 But that we can, as sentient beings now, logical, intellectual beings, recognize that this was from a long time ago, and now it's just something that happens in nature, that some people want to feel this way, and some people want to feel this way.

01:25:58.000 And there's no moral dimension to it and no reason to call it a sin.

01:26:04.000 Again, Christianity just disagrees with that.

01:26:06.000 So, I mean, it's the only sin that God destroyed a city over.

01:26:09.000 So, I mean, and I'm not trying to be legalistic about it.

01:26:12.000 It's just a fact, right?

01:26:14.000 And it's explicitly prohibited in the text.

01:26:18.000 By the way, so is adultery, and so is stealing, and so is coveting.

01:26:21.000 I'm guilty of coveting, and, I mean, we're all guilty of many sins.

01:26:25.000 I'm not trying to single that one out and try to be pompous.

01:26:28.000 I think the phrase you're searching for is, save your breath.

01:26:32.000 This is what we believe, and I get it.

01:26:35.000 It's doctrine.

01:26:36.000 So, wait, coveting?

01:26:38.000 Now, coveting is one you can't control.

01:26:41.000 No, that's not true.

01:26:42.000 Oh, stop it.

01:26:43.000 You can control coveting.

01:26:45.000 It's like saying you can control, if I say don't ever think of a pink elephant, you will think of a pink elephant.

01:26:50.000 It's a little bit more than thinking, we would say in the interpretation of coveting.

01:26:56.000 It's to the place where you become obsessed.

01:26:58.000 Oh. It takes your being.

01:26:59.000 No. Oh, no.

01:27:01.000 That's coveting?

01:27:01.000 I thought coveting was just wanting something you don't have.

01:27:04.000 Of course, you can't regulate every thought that you have, but coveting gets to the place where it becomes your identity of obsession.

01:27:10.000 And let me tell you why, because it says do not covet a specific thing.

01:27:14.000 Your neighbor's wife, your donkey, so it's like a very specific thing.

01:27:19.000 So, for example, if someone says, I want to be...

01:27:23.000 I can't stand Bill Maher.

01:27:25.000 I want to be a comedian as successful as Bill Maher.

01:27:28.000 It becomes their identity.

01:27:29.000 I don't think that's good.

01:27:30.000 I think it ruins your soul.

01:27:32.000 I think you would agree with that, too.

01:27:33.000 You know people like that.

01:27:34.000 Don't give them any ideas.

01:27:36.000 They're already there.

01:27:37.000 But people that are consumed with jealousy.

01:27:40.000 Totally. That's what we would say coveting is.

01:27:42.000 Not just like, oh, don't think of the pink elephant.

01:27:44.000 I'm not here to play air traffic control in your thoughts.

01:27:48.000 Right. Because, you know, you're an attractive guy.

01:27:52.000 I'm sure there's lots of MAGA groupies.

01:27:55.000 And I'm sure coveting comes up.

01:27:57.000 You know, how can you not covet?

01:28:00.000 And praise God that I have a great wife.

01:28:03.000 Right. She understands about the coveting.

01:28:06.000 Yeah, and we have a very healthy, loyal, you know, wonderful marriage.

01:28:10.000 But male nature is, that's why there had to be a prohibition on adultery. 1.00

01:28:15.000 Because... It is male nature to...

01:28:17.000 No, I think it's actually easier to be a female in that way.

01:28:22.000 I completely agree.

01:28:23.000 Right. I covet being a female. 0.84

01:28:25.000 I wouldn't go that far.

01:28:27.000 How wrong is that?

01:28:29.000 No, and again, good on you for being a liberal that acknowledges male-female distinctions.

01:28:34.000 What a concept, right?

01:28:35.000 Oh, of course.

01:28:37.000 Of all the low-lying fruit that the Democrats just, like, hand the Republicans to win elections, that's the one.

01:28:43.000 You know, it's so funny.

01:28:44.000 I joked around with my team the other day.

01:28:45.000 I said, are they really going to just let us win every national election on this no men and female sports thing? 0.79

01:28:51.000 Right. Like, they can't surrender on this one issue.

01:28:53.000 It's so ridiculous.

01:28:54.000 It's a 90-10 issue.

01:28:55.000 Yeah. There's 890 medals and trophies of men winning these competitions.

01:28:59.000 You lost Gavin Newsom on this.

01:29:01.000 Okay. Take that as a hint, right?

01:29:04.000 I mean, I think you were on...

01:29:05.000 I was the one that asked the question.

01:29:06.000 Right. Yeah.

01:29:08.000 And he said, issue of fairness, all that.

01:29:10.000 Well, that's what I started to say when you sat down.

01:29:12.000 You're everywhere now.

01:29:13.000 You're Gavin Newsom, everybody's podcast.

01:29:16.000 And, you know, look, I always say this.

01:29:20.000 Everybody's a monster until you talk to them.

01:29:24.000 Not to say that there aren't some people who probably are monsters.

01:29:26.000 But, like, I mean, I've yet to find the...

01:29:31.000 Horror show that is you.

01:29:35.000 Keep looking, Bill.

01:29:36.000 No, I want to.

01:29:38.000 You've got to keep going.

01:29:40.000 I do.

01:29:41.000 I want to.

01:29:41.000 So tell me, cut me some slack, because we're friends now, right?

01:29:46.000 We really are.

01:29:47.000 Absolutely. Okay.

01:29:48.000 So just cut to the chase.

01:29:49.000 What is it that the 10% who hate me, the ISIS...

01:29:58.000 Fighters. Oh, yeah.

01:29:59.000 Who hate the apostates in Islam more than they do, you know, they hate chiites more than, okay. 0.98

01:30:08.000 Tell me what they are wanting me to press you on now.

01:30:12.000 What is the thing that presses their buttons the most about why you're an incorrigible?

01:30:18.000 I don't even think you would agree with their accusations.

01:30:20.000 But I just want to know what it is.

01:30:22.000 They would say I'm hateful.

01:30:23.000 They would say I'm a bigot.

01:30:25.000 They would say that I'm a xenophobe.

01:30:27.000 Those are the contentions that I get.

01:30:29.000 But based on what things that you've said specifically?

01:30:31.000 I mean, I believe that transgenderism is a mental disorder, as it was, you know, diagnosed in the previous year. 1.00

01:30:38.000 So you don't think any people are, like, born, quote-unquote, in the wrong body?

01:30:42.000 No, I don't agree.

01:30:43.000 No? I think people might think they are born in a different body.

01:30:46.000 But I believe it to be a mental disorder.

01:30:49.000 As most of clinicians did up until the last five or ten years.

01:30:53.000 Well, you know, this is another one where the woke hates me.

01:30:55.000 I mean, I did a whole thing on how I think, and we do disagree on this, by the way, because I do think there is such a thing as being born in the wrong body.

01:31:03.000 But I said what's going on in the country is what I would call entrapment, because entrapment, by legal means, is when you suggest to people something they really wouldn't have done anyway.

01:31:14.000 And I use the example of the Liberty 7, the 7...

01:31:18.000 African-American gentlemen in Miami who were planning to blow up the Sears Tower.

01:31:23.000 They were not.

01:31:24.000 The FBI came in to seven people who probably had good reason to be discontented with America and said, wouldn't it be great if we blew up the Sears Tower in Chicago for Allah?

01:31:35.000 And they were like, yeah.

01:31:38.000 And they didn't even have a gun.

01:31:40.000 That's entrapment.

01:31:41.000 Or the Gretchen Whitmer kidnapping case.

01:31:44.000 Similar. No, that's real.

01:31:45.000 Oh, the kidnapping.

01:31:46.000 No, that was entrapment.

01:31:48.000 So she really wasn't?

01:31:49.000 No, no, that was an FBI entrapment.

01:31:51.000 Absolutely. It was.

01:31:52.000 Oh, yeah.

01:31:53.000 It was like five feds and two guys.

01:31:55.000 Anyway, we don't have to get...

01:31:56.000 For the record, I'm not acknowledging that I agree with that because I don't know enough about it.

01:32:01.000 In the comments, you guys can agree or disagree.

01:32:03.000 I'm just acknowledging that I respect Charlie Kirk enough.

01:32:06.000 To look into whether that is, and it could be true, because I say it all the time, I don't believe anybody.

01:32:13.000 Like, you just lost my trust, all media, right, left, very few people.

01:32:21.000 I'm right there with you.

01:32:22.000 Do I have, like, okay, I hear what you're saying, now I have to go vet it.

01:32:28.000 Hilariously, more people that I know that are center-left now say, I think Trump is not a monster because Bill Maher of what he said.

01:32:35.000 On anything else?

01:32:36.000 Well, I didn't exactly say that.

01:32:38.000 Well, no, you said not a crazy person lives in the White House.

01:32:41.000 That was what you said.

01:32:41.000 Right. And you said he was respectful and gregarious, right?

01:32:44.000 Yes. I said not a crazy, but a person who acts crazy on the public stage.

01:32:48.000 Those are two different things, though.

01:32:49.000 I know, but that's what matters.

01:32:50.000 I also said it doesn't matter what he does in a private dinner with a comedian.

01:32:56.000 What matters is who he's on the world stage.

01:32:59.000 What bothers me about the critiques I get is that they don't acknowledge the points I myself made.

01:33:05.000 Fair enough.

01:33:05.000 Let me ask you.

01:33:05.000 No, I don't mean you.

01:33:06.000 No, no, no, no.

01:33:07.000 But would you prefer him to be crazy in private or crazy in public?

01:33:10.000 I'm not saying he's crazy.

01:33:11.000 I just took it as a positive, and I said this also, I took it as a positive that at least there is this other person that I see that is undeniable.

01:33:22.000 And again, for all the people who, we're losing truth.

01:33:26.000 Yes, I was one of the first to say that.

01:33:28.000 We are losing truth.

01:33:29.000 Okay, but I told you the truth.

01:33:31.000 That's all I did.

01:33:32.000 I went there and I told the truth of what happened.

01:33:35.000 And good for you.

01:33:36.000 And they would prefer that I had lied.

01:33:38.000 Did you sign the Bill Maher Accords?

01:33:40.000 Exactly. It was like the ratification of a treaty.

01:33:43.000 But he signed that piece.

01:33:44.000 I thought that was hilarious.

01:33:45.000 It is hilarious.

01:33:46.000 It's like you guys were negotiating.

01:33:48.000 First of all, the thing I did was...

01:33:50.000 Funny. Give me a little credit.

01:33:52.000 To sign the thing?

01:33:53.000 No, the whole piece I did on my show was hysterical.

01:33:55.000 I thought it was terrific.

01:33:56.000 Yeah, it was funny.

01:33:57.000 And honestly, good for President Trump for hosting you.

01:34:00.000 Right. He had the magnanimity to do that.

01:34:02.000 And listening.

01:34:04.000 And again, the reason why I was the perfect choice for this was because nobody had been harder on him.

01:34:12.000 So it was a real Nixon to China thing.

01:34:15.000 And by the way, if you don't know what Nixon to China means, you probably shouldn't be commenting on political matters to begin with, my critical friends.

01:34:27.000 What your meeting, I thought, was a great window into the whole liberal world that shows the Donald Trump that I know and that I've gotten to know, which is, and I just thought it was hilarious when he was, you know, asking you about Iran, right?

01:34:42.000 He'll ask anybody about anything.

01:34:43.000 He loves asking people's opinions.

01:34:45.000 He listens more than he talks.

01:34:46.000 Right. He'll solicit opinions.

01:34:49.000 I know it blows people's minds when we say this.

01:34:51.000 Well, it also blows our minds because then he doesn't do the right thing.

01:34:55.000 Sometimes he does.

01:34:56.000 Sometimes he does.

01:34:57.000 He went to the embassy to Jerusalem.

01:34:58.000 I gave that whole list.

01:35:01.000 I also gave the list of things that are horrible.

01:35:04.000 Disappearing people and ignoring judges and gutting the government with glee.

01:35:11.000 This tariff thing that even the conservative press has turned off on.

01:35:17.000 So, yeah, it was just honest down the line on both sides.

01:35:22.000 I just told you what I saw.

01:35:25.000 And good for you.

01:35:26.000 And I just told this to Harvey Levin on his show.

01:35:30.000 I'm proud I looked him in the eye and said, you're scaring people.

01:35:33.000 I'm proud I looked him in the eye and said...

01:35:35.000 How did he react to that?

01:35:38.000 I know, but see, that's the thing.

01:35:40.000 I said that the night I gave it.

01:35:42.000 I said, you're scaring people.

01:35:45.000 Why do you want to scare your own citizens so much?

01:35:48.000 And I know everybody wants to know what he said, and the truth is, I don't remember.

01:35:53.000 But it wasn't...

01:35:54.000 What kind of drugs were you guys doing that night?

01:35:56.000 But it wasn't, okay, I'll stop.

01:35:59.000 Okay. Then you would have remembered.

01:36:00.000 That I would have remembered.

01:36:02.000 So I have no illusions that...

01:36:04.000 You know, my dinner with Donald Trump is going to change the nation.

01:36:08.000 But to the haters, it's just like, as opposed to what?

01:36:13.000 Not engaging at all?

01:36:15.000 That is their...

01:36:16.000 It's either me or Gretchen Whitmer with the binders in front of her face.

01:36:22.000 I mean, I feel like I did it better.

01:36:24.000 I went in there.

01:36:25.000 I didn't give one inch on what I believe or saying to his face what I believe.

01:36:34.000 But, you know, I told the truth about how he's different in private.

01:36:38.000 Do you think, why, what do you think about the idea, you going, here's how I would frame it, you going to meet with Trump would be the equivalent of Biden inviting me over for dinner.

01:36:47.000 Yeah. Meaning like, is that fair?

01:36:49.000 Absolutely. Okay, I don't want to put words in your mouth.

01:36:50.000 Absolutely. Why do you think Biden or Obama wouldn't do that and Trump did?

01:36:54.000 I mentioned that too in the thing.

01:36:55.000 I said, you know what?

01:36:56.000 You did.

01:36:57.000 I said, you know, because look, this was kind of a guy's dinner.

01:37:00.000 And I, look, Donald Trump is a man of a certain age.

01:37:03.000 Of a certain way of life.

01:37:05.000 I just think he's comfortable with the guys.

01:37:09.000 And I also think he loves his wife more than is let on.

01:37:12.000 But, like, he just likes being with the guys.

01:37:14.000 And it was a guys' dinner.

01:37:15.000 We just had a good guys' time.

01:37:17.000 And so, like, I said it.

01:37:20.000 Like, I voted for Obama.

01:37:22.000 I voted for Clinton.

01:37:23.000 But the idea that I could talk to them as freely as I felt this conversation was going.

01:37:30.000 This is emblematic to me of why the Democrats lose the elections, because they just don't feel that this is like a real person.

01:37:38.000 And I know it's so weird to say that about Donald Trump, who I've said a jillion times is, you know, a whiny little bitch.

01:37:46.000 I mean, I could go through my greatest hits of, like, insults, but this was about getting past that and maybe seeing that if we met in person...

01:37:54.000 We don't hate each other as much, and we don't.

01:37:57.000 And I'm sorry, I'm not going to pretend that's a bad thing.

01:38:00.000 No, it's how you heal as a country.

01:38:02.000 Even though he's doing terrible things.

01:38:05.000 I would say doing great things, but that's a separate issue.

01:38:08.000 I mean, sending American citizens to foreign prisons.

01:38:13.000 He didn't do that.

01:38:14.000 That was a one-liner.

01:38:15.000 I know, but he set a one-liner.

01:38:18.000 You're so forgiving.

01:38:19.000 I am.

01:38:20.000 That's the Christ in me.

01:38:21.000 I know, but...

01:38:22.000 You need Jesus, Bill, and you'll be more forgiving.

01:38:25.000 You wouldn't have been forgiving if Obama said it.

01:38:28.000 Well, so what did Trump say?

01:38:30.000 Trump said that the homegrown ones?

01:38:33.000 You could also argue that if it's an illegal alien homegrown.

01:38:36.000 I don't even want to get too far deep into it.

01:38:38.000 Let's just say I don't think we should ever entertain American citizens going to prisons abroad.

01:38:45.000 Great. Because, I mean, you're a student of American history.

01:38:49.000 I try.

01:38:50.000 Yeah. I don't know who Eugene O'Neill is, but...

01:38:53.000 Well, that's not history.

01:38:54.000 That's the arts.

01:38:55.000 And that's the 20th century.

01:38:57.000 But yes, I'm happy to fill the gaps in your knowledge.

01:39:00.000 Thank you.

01:39:00.000 That's a big one.

01:39:01.000 Eugene O'Neill's big.

01:39:02.000 I would not like...

01:39:03.000 No, no, no.

01:39:04.000 It's like I...

01:39:05.000 He's not like this small guy.

01:39:07.000 But okay.

01:39:07.000 So the Iceman cometh.

01:39:09.000 Another big one.

01:39:11.000 But Iceman.

01:39:12.000 You can see it's not recent.

01:39:14.000 But... I forget now what we're talking about.

01:39:17.000 It's the pot.

01:39:18.000 I blame the pot.

01:39:19.000 Charlie, it's always the pot.

01:39:21.000 You're right.

01:39:21.000 It's terrible.

01:39:22.000 I'm going to quit tomorrow.

01:39:23.000 Not really.

01:39:24.000 It sharpens your memory.

01:39:26.000 What do you think would happen if you smoked pot?

01:39:28.000 Oh, my goodness.

01:39:29.000 You never did?

01:39:30.000 No. Even as a kid?

01:39:31.000 No. This is like sort of my version of the religion thing.

01:39:36.000 Like, maybe you're missing out on the big picture the way I am with Christianity.

01:39:42.000 Maybe. Except I've already been exposed to Christianity, and you've never been exposed. 0.96

01:39:48.000 To Rastafarianism, or whatever my religion is.

01:39:50.000 Only one of those has an afterlife.

01:39:52.000 But you could, I mean, don't you think that it would be a great thing to see corners of your mind that you have never looked into?

01:40:02.000 Tell me more.

01:40:03.000 What do you mean by that?

01:40:05.000 It's not a game.

01:40:06.000 I want to like...

01:40:06.000 No, I will tell you.

01:40:08.000 I'm happy to tell you.

01:40:09.000 I'll put it this way.

01:40:10.000 I've mentioned this before with potheads, I think, on my show.

01:40:15.000 That... When I have an important decision to make, I treat my mind the way Congress is designed, a bicameral institution. 0.62

01:40:25.000 I will think about it sober, and I will think about it stoned.

01:40:30.000 And then if they agree, they can reconcile and present a bill, and I will sign it.

01:40:37.000 And there's a reconciliation process.

01:40:38.000 But they both have to agree on this, because I just have a different perspective when I'm stoned.

01:40:44.000 And it's very often sharper and more insightful and better.

01:40:50.000 You know, I mean, just editing, I know.

01:40:55.000 Like, just writing in general.

01:40:58.000 But, I mean, I don't do all my writing stone, but, like, the final edit, it's like, oh, yeah, you're right, that should go.

01:41:06.000 Like, things I did not see sober, I will see stoned.

01:41:11.000 And, you know...

01:41:13.000 You might get stoned and be like, oh, Jesus, what?

01:41:18.000 Are we kidding?

01:41:21.000 Back from the dead?

01:41:22.000 No, I'm kidding.

01:41:24.000 So Sunday's Easter.

01:41:26.000 What are you going to do?

01:41:27.000 Must be a big day.

01:41:28.000 He is risen.

01:41:28.000 He is risen indeed, Bill.

01:41:30.000 We're going to be celebrating the resurrection of our Lord.

01:41:32.000 Why do we say that in the present tense?

01:41:34.000 Because it is a constant truth in our life.

01:41:37.000 He is risen.

01:41:38.000 I always noticed that that was interesting to me.

01:41:41.000 That's a really important question, actually.

01:41:43.000 It is.

01:41:43.000 Tell me.

01:41:44.000 Well, because the fact that he has risen transcends time.

01:41:49.000 It's not just in the present sense.

01:41:50.000 It's that of all time, that promise is accessible to all of us.

01:41:54.000 And so it's a proclamation to all people.

01:41:57.000 Because if you said, hey, he was risen, eh.

01:41:59.000 It's like it's just merely a historical event.

01:42:02.000 It almost underplays the metaphysics of it.

01:42:05.000 I'm just always fascinated the way...

01:42:08.000 Really, really fine intellectual minds employ themselves for the purpose of arguing things that are so inarguable.

01:42:20.000 It does fascinate you, though.

01:42:21.000 It does, because it's almost like a challenge.

01:42:26.000 Like, I'm so smart that I can make this thing, which is so...

01:42:30.000 It's stupid.

01:42:31.000 It's not stupid.

01:42:33.000 No, no, it's fine.

01:42:34.000 No, but you get where I'm coming from.

01:42:36.000 I'm going to take something that is so anti-intellectual, even though I can argue like an intellectual.

01:42:42.000 However, but you have to acknowledge, even the greatest minds of history have been mesmerized by the scriptures.

01:42:48.000 Isaac Newton, Thomas Aquinas.

01:42:50.000 Isaac Newton wrote more about biblical prophecy than even physics.

01:42:54.000 And so there's something about the scriptures that are intellectual, that does push your limits.

01:43:00.000 And that's what I think is so beautiful about our faith, is it can be accessible to everyone, but also infinitely nourishing in exploration.

01:43:07.000 So why the, if there's this other truth that's beyond this metaphysical truth, why so many different versions of it that only seem to cause wars?

01:43:21.000 You know, Protestants and Catholics.

01:43:24.000 Eastern Orthodox, Mormon.

01:43:26.000 Someone asked me recently, like...

01:43:29.000 You know, like, I won't say who, but sometimes people have, you know, don't know history that well, and they're like, Bill.

01:43:39.000 Like, okay, so Columbus, 1492, lands on America.

01:43:43.000 And we don't really then have the first colony until 1607, Jamestown.

01:43:50.000 So somebody said to me, what happened in that century?

01:43:55.000 You know what happened in that century?

01:43:57.000 Martin Luther.

01:43:58.000 At the beginning of that century, said there's an alternative to Catholicism.

01:44:03.000 There's 95 theses that were...

01:44:05.000 Nailed on the door of Wittenberg in 1517.

01:44:09.000 And for the next 100 years, they just fucking killed each other all over Europe about who was right about that. 0.80

01:44:18.000 And that's why it took a century after Columbus landed to go back, because they were preoccupied with killing each other over whether...

01:44:28.000 The Pope in Rome was the devil.

01:44:32.000 Or is the Eucharist the liberal body of Christ?

01:44:36.000 I mean, did his foreskin ascend to heaven with him, or was that left here because he was a Jew? 0.67

01:44:41.000 I mean, there was just a lot of silly questions.

01:44:43.000 There was a lot of debates.

01:44:44.000 Arianism, remember that? 0.62

01:44:46.000 Sure, yeah, or dualism or modalism.

01:44:49.000 How do we come to Trinitarianism as a whole?

01:44:53.000 I find the first few centuries of Christianity Fascinating. 0.99

01:44:59.000 Tell me, why?

01:45:00.000 Well, because they were deciding on it.

01:45:02.000 I mean, Christianity, for you non-history majors, Christ dies in 1933, of course, and then it wasn't until three centuries later.

01:45:12.000 The Council of Nicaea.

01:45:13.000 Well, that's even later, but the 330, I think, or maybe that was when the Emperor Constantine declared...

01:45:20.000 He convened the council.

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01:46:25.000 Right, okay.

01:46:26.000 So that's when Christianity becomes the official religion of the Roman Empire.

01:46:30.000 So it took 300 years.

01:46:32.000 And that's when the Nicene Creed was created.

01:46:34.000 Right. And in those 300 years...

01:46:36.000 There were a ton of debates.

01:46:38.000 First, it was like, you know, Christianity was just persecuted.

01:46:44.000 It was surviving the first hundred years.

01:46:46.000 The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church, was said by Tertullian in 202.

01:46:50.000 So that's 200 years into it, and they were still martyrs.

01:46:54.000 You know, they were fed to the lions.

01:46:57.000 And then slowly it catches on, the idea that it gets good, and the afterlife was very attractive to an empire that was like a lot of slaves.

01:47:08.000 If you're a slave, this is a good deal.

01:47:11.000 And so finally in 330, it becomes the official religion.

01:47:15.000 And then you have the church fathers, Ambrose.

01:47:18.000 Augustine of Hippo.

01:47:19.000 Augustine, right.

01:47:20.000 And Jerome.

01:47:21.000 And Augustine is writing in like 430, I think.

01:47:27.000 City of God.

01:47:28.000 Yes. He's writing in the city of Hippo.

01:47:31.000 Which is Libya now. 0.93

01:47:33.000 Is in Libya now.

01:47:34.000 Right. Correct.

01:47:36.000 And, you know, just the way they...

01:47:41.000 I don't want to call them exactly press agents, but kind of the way they formed the idea of the church in those early centuries.

01:47:51.000 You know, it was something that needed...

01:47:54.000 It needed decisions to be made, because when you...

01:47:57.000 Our answer would be, which I don't think you'll find overly persuasive...

01:48:01.000 See, I was going to do it right when you were swallowing.

01:48:04.000 Is that when you have something true, you have a lot of bad forces that try to pervert it.

01:48:08.000 And you have to meet, you have to refine it, you have to clarify it.

01:48:13.000 And, I mean, the idea of the Trinity was one of the most important one of those debates.

01:48:16.000 Again, you had dualism, modalism, Arianism.

01:48:21.000 You had, I mean, you had Gnosticism, which was a huge debate of the early church.

01:48:26.000 And, of course, it was concluded in Trinitarianism, which we would argue.

01:48:32.000 Go ahead.

01:48:33.000 It's just so much arguing.

01:48:35.000 About how many angels are on the head of a pin.

01:48:38.000 That wasn't the argument.

01:48:41.000 The arguments were much more consequential than even like eschatology.

01:48:48.000 There's an old saying in comedy, buy the premise, buy the bit.

01:48:51.000 If you believe the premise that he's God, then you care whether the foreskin went with him or not. 0.62

01:48:58.000 The big debate was like, is Christ God?

01:49:00.000 That was the big one.

01:49:01.000 That was the biggest of them all.

01:49:03.000 And it nearly split the church in five different parts.

01:49:07.000 And the idea of the Trinity was eventually decided upon, which we believe to be.

01:49:12.000 In Religious, I went to a holy land and they have the Jesus there because they reenact the whole crucifixion.

01:49:18.000 And so I interviewed Jesus and, you know, I hit him with that about like, you know.

01:49:23.000 It's supposed to be very proud.

01:49:25.000 They're very proud that they're monotheistic, you know, like the pagan people. 0.97

01:49:30.000 They have many gods.

01:49:31.000 These fucking heathens, these savages.

01:49:33.000 The river, the sun.

01:49:34.000 Yes, from shithole countries. 0.99

01:49:35.000 The corn, the dirt.

01:49:37.000 Crazy people with so many gods.

01:49:39.000 And then you have the Father, the Son, the Holy Ghost.

01:49:42.000 You can pray to the Mother.

01:49:44.000 I mean, it's just a lot of people involved.

01:49:46.000 It's one Godhead in three parts.

01:49:48.000 The Trinity is very complex.

01:49:49.000 So this is what Jesus said.

01:49:51.000 Oh, yeah.

01:49:51.000 Tell me what he said.

01:49:52.000 He said, and this like stopped me in my tracks for a minute because it's the kind of that makes you go, you know, that makes people go, oh.

01:50:00.000 And to me, it went, oh, no.

01:50:03.000 Okay. So he said, it's like.

01:50:05.000 Ice? It's like water.

01:50:06.000 Yeah, it's in three parts, yeah.

01:50:07.000 Water, vapor, water, or ice.

01:50:10.000 See, I'm glad I didn't use that one on you.

01:50:11.000 You wouldn't have liked it.

01:50:13.000 Well, Jesus already tried it.

01:50:14.000 Did he say it in Aramaic?

01:50:15.000 But it's a pretty good analogy.

01:50:17.000 No, but that's what we would say.

01:50:18.000 It's the same thing in three different parts, right?

01:50:21.000 But you know they did add the Holy Ghost like three centuries in because the church needed another vote.

01:50:27.000 Well, no, that's not true.

01:50:27.000 Oh, it is true.

01:50:28.000 There was no Holy Ghost in the beginning.

01:50:30.000 In Matthew 4, Christ is baptized.

01:50:33.000 And it says, the Spirit came upon him.

01:50:36.000 The Father says, it's my Son, and I am pleased, and he is the Son.

01:50:38.000 So you have all three parts of the Godhead right there.

01:50:41.000 The Holy Ghost is named there?

01:50:43.000 The Spirit.

01:50:43.000 It says, the Spirit of the Lord came upon him.

01:50:46.000 That sounds like the Lord.

01:50:48.000 Well, then God the Father said, this is my Son, and who I am pleased.

01:50:51.000 So three distinct parts of the Godhead.

01:50:53.000 It's the best picture of the Trinity we have.

01:50:56.000 So they were all in the same room at the same time?

01:50:58.000 Well, in the river, right?

01:50:59.000 I mean, the scene, right?

01:51:01.000 God the Father was there?

01:51:02.000 God the Father was audible, right?

01:51:04.000 Audible. Oh, so he was on Zoom.

01:51:06.000 Yeah, he was phoning it.

01:51:09.000 Christ was being baptized by John the Baptizer and the Spirit of the Lord.

01:51:13.000 Baptizer? John the Baptist?

01:51:14.000 It's actually Baptizer, yeah.

01:51:16.000 That's what they call him now?

01:51:17.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:51:17.000 Is that new?

01:51:18.000 You've got to keep up with the time.

01:51:19.000 Is that new?

01:51:21.000 It's a fun, wonky theological thing.

01:51:24.000 Why did they change it?

01:51:25.000 Because it was actually in the—again, this is like so— What's wrong with John the Baptist?

01:51:29.000 It's so insignificant because it actually, in the old Greek, it was a verb.

01:51:33.000 It was the baptizer, the one. 0.99

01:51:35.000 It's completely irrelevant.

01:51:36.000 It doesn't matter.

01:51:37.000 It's like New Coke.

01:51:38.000 Stick with what works.

01:51:39.000 You know what?

01:51:40.000 It was great, John the Baptist.

01:51:42.000 There's nothing wrong with John the Baptist.

01:51:44.000 It's a great title.

01:51:45.000 And then in Acts, it says the Spirit of the Lord came upon the disciples at Pentecost.

01:51:51.000 Wow. But, like, let me ask you a question.

01:51:53.000 Do you—have you ever— What is the best argument for God you've ever heard?

01:51:58.000 What's the one that you think is, if you had, like, strong man deism?

01:52:03.000 Well, it was eight, and it was, you're going to be in eternal pain if you don't believe this.

01:52:10.000 So since then nothing has compelled you?

01:52:12.000 Well, I mean, I do remember that period in my life when there was the fear.

01:52:16.000 And then as I got older, you know, look, I was still saying there was...

01:52:23.000 I was not an atheist until I was, like, 40. Like, I wasn't religious.

01:52:27.000 I thought that was bullshit.

01:52:29.000 But I wasn't saying I was an atheist.

01:52:31.000 I just didn't think much about it at all.

01:52:35.000 I do remember, like, in my 20s, like, you know, you'd do that thing where you're in some sort of bad shape, and you'd be, please, God, if you just...

01:52:48.000 Petitionary prayer.

01:52:49.000 Don't make me...

01:52:50.000 I feel like this cocaine is going to make me die.

01:52:53.000 If you save me, I promise I'll never do it again.

01:52:56.000 Your prayer was answered.

01:52:57.000 What? Your prayer was answered.

01:52:58.000 My prayer wasn't answered.

01:53:00.000 I just didn't do that much cocaine.

01:53:02.000 It felt like I was dying, but I wasn't.

01:53:05.000 There was a logical explanation, Charlie.

01:53:08.000 Just saying you're one for one on prayers being answered.

01:53:12.000 I mean, I don't think that was the only time.

01:53:15.000 I know.

01:53:16.000 I'm kidding.

01:53:16.000 Being lighthearted.

01:53:17.000 All right.

01:53:18.000 You'll see here we now go on to the conversation of Bill Maher standing up against the woke.

01:53:22.000 And Bill does deserve a lot of credit.

01:53:25.000 His criticism, his constant questioning of standing up to the woke mind virus deserves a ton of credit.

01:53:34.000 Well, I can't tell you how much I enjoyed this.

01:53:37.000 Well, thank you.

01:53:37.000 I mean...

01:53:38.000 Again, I'm sure there's something that I'm not asking you.

01:53:43.000 I've been an admirer, Bill, of yours for a while.

01:53:44.000 We're on different planets, obviously, on the spiritual religious stuff.

01:53:47.000 But when you spoke against the woke, that for me was a proving moment.

01:53:51.000 No, no.

01:53:52.000 And I have to say something, and this is 100% true.

01:53:55.000 You had more moral courage than pastors that I know that went along with the woke crazy train.

01:53:59.000 And you deserve credit for that.

01:54:01.000 I appreciate that.

01:54:01.000 Because it was of high cost.

01:54:02.000 They were intimidating.

01:54:03.000 No, and I am, you know, part of the...

01:54:08.000 Joy of doing that because it's such an easy target and they're so terrible.

01:54:13.000 And they combine bad ideas with a bad attitude.

01:54:17.000 So when I see somebody, as I've seen so many videos of yours, where you're just taking them down and you do it like Edward R. Murrow.

01:54:27.000 I mean, you just destroy them.

01:54:29.000 If I agree with you on the premise, it is a pure joy to watch that.

01:54:35.000 Thank you.

01:54:36.000 Yeah, it is.

01:54:38.000 And, you know, I know you don't think you're doing a giant service to the Democratic Party, but you are.

01:54:44.000 Because until we get rid of that, they're never going to win another election.

01:54:50.000 I agree.

01:54:50.000 They're not going to take political advice from me.

01:54:53.000 No, but they might from me.

01:54:54.000 They could.

01:54:55.000 And they should.

01:54:56.000 Not the 10%, but that's 10%.

01:54:59.000 I mean, that was the good news about this Trump dinner thing.

01:55:03.000 Like, the people who hated me before...

01:55:06.000 It didn't go up.

01:55:07.000 I looked into it.

01:55:08.000 It's the same 10%. 0.59

01:55:09.000 But they're very loud.

01:55:11.000 They're very loud, but that's it.

01:55:13.000 And, you know, as FDR once said, I welcome their hatred because they're just...

01:55:20.000 First of all, they have no integrity.

01:55:21.000 They don't, like, ever, like, present the full argument.

01:55:25.000 They just cherry-pick.

01:55:26.000 I mean, everybody does it to everybody, so I'm not saying I'm unique here.

01:55:30.000 But that is part of the problem of our discourse, is that everybody just wants...

01:55:35.000 To forward their narrative.

01:55:38.000 No one is really interested in the full truth.

01:55:42.000 Just the truth.

01:55:43.000 Just give me the truth.

01:55:44.000 And that's the crowd I'm going for.

01:55:50.000 And now in this segment, Bill and I discuss why college students are attracted to conservatism and why they are going right-wing.

01:55:58.000 We are seeing a right-wing revolution increase amongst...

01:56:01.000 Our nation's youth.

01:56:03.000 It's promising, it's exciting, it's uplifting, and we discuss it.

01:56:06.000 And to be honest, when I go to these campuses and we're drawing these huge crowds, in some ways, we're benefiting from the ways that the old school comics would benefit on college campuses because we're saying the stuff you're not allowed to say.

01:56:17.000 Like, we are the rebellion-type energy.

01:56:20.000 They must be so thirsty for it.

01:56:22.000 Of course.

01:56:23.000 They're kids.

01:56:24.000 Yes. It's like innate that they want to be.

01:56:28.000 Here's something that's not politically correct.

01:56:30.000 Yes, and you think about it.

01:56:32.000 It's like you're a guy on a college campus at any one of these tour stops we're going to, right?

01:56:36.000 Boise State, University of South Carolina, Oklahoma State University.

01:56:41.000 And they are constantly in this bubble of if I say one wrong word, I could have my entire career ruined.

01:56:46.000 If I say the wrong joke, if I laugh at the wrong thing, if I use the wrong pronoun, they're living in a totalitarian environment, a cultural totalitarian environment.

01:56:54.000 Okay, you're going to have to stay a little more because I want to ask you about this.

01:56:57.000 Because now you've got me on colleges.

01:56:59.000 And, you know, that's been one of my big...

01:57:01.000 No, no, we've got to talk.

01:57:02.000 That's been one of my big targets.

01:57:04.000 Big time.

01:57:05.000 I mean, it was in my book, it was in my special, I called them the mouth of the river from which all the nonsense flows.

01:57:12.000 It is the Wuhan laboratory for the woke... 1.00

01:57:15.000 That was mine.

01:57:16.000 Yeah, I probably got it from you.

01:57:17.000 I did.

01:57:18.000 I said, if ignorance is a disease...

01:57:21.000 Harvard Yard is the Wuhan wet market.

01:57:23.000 That was my joke.

01:57:25.000 Now we can say Wuhan lab, but yeah, that's right.

01:57:28.000 And Trump's going after the colleges now.

01:57:32.000 Which I fully support.

01:57:33.000 Yeah, but as always with his...

01:57:35.000 It's not exactly legal the way he's doing it.

01:57:40.000 It's coercive.

01:57:43.000 I am behind the feeling of it.

01:57:48.000 I'm not sure this is the way to do it.

01:57:50.000 But the feeling of it, yes, they have become places that, and this is, again, one of your big bailawicks.

01:58:02.000 You know, this is one of the places you really got to.

01:58:06.000 I think this has helped you get where you are.

01:58:09.000 They have become places that are two things, not really interested in teaching, just getting a point of view.

01:58:23.000 Yes. Yes.

01:58:38.000 All the things that make your life, and especially the life of minorities and oppressed people better, come from Western civilization.

01:58:49.000 Rule of law, scientific inquiry, freedom of speech, democracy, all the things, women's rights, gay rights.

01:59:00.000 All of it.

01:59:01.000 All of it is Western civilization.

01:59:06.000 And the question is, how do you, like, extrapate that from universities without...

01:59:15.000 I mean, going after the research money, it has nothing to do with it.

01:59:18.000 It does and it doesn't.

01:59:19.000 I mean, so, first of all, you're right.

01:59:21.000 Let's just start with our agreement.

01:59:23.000 Colleges have become a place where they want everyone to look different but think the same.

01:59:26.000 Their idea of diversity is like, okay, we look at the yearbook photo and everyone has race diversity.

01:59:32.000 Everything has to look like Angelina Jolie's Christmas card.

01:59:38.000 But they all think as if they're at the Democrat National Committee meeting.

01:59:42.000 There is no diversity of thought.

01:59:44.000 There's no heterodox opinion.

01:59:46.000 They tried to get Western civilization taught at Stanford, you know this story, well over 15 to 20 years ago, and they removed it.

01:59:53.000 They removed it from the core curriculum.

01:59:55.000 Really? I'm going to be honest.

01:59:57.000 These places have to be basically burned to the ground.

02:00:02.000 Metaphorically. Okay, metaphorically.

02:00:04.000 Meaning like, I mean, look, you have, take Harvard.

02:00:07.000 So you say the research money.

02:00:09.000 First of all, they take 10 to 15% of that in overhead.

02:00:12.000 Why does Harvard, with a $50 billion endowment, need $2 billion in research money?

02:00:16.000 Just ask Harvey the same question.

02:00:17.000 That's a hedge fund with a college attached.

02:00:20.000 Right. That's not a university.

02:00:21.000 Right. Right?

02:00:22.000 I mean, that's something completely different.

02:00:24.000 Stanford, $40 billion endowment.

02:00:26.000 Yale, $35 billion endowment.

02:00:28.000 And look, some of this research is awesome.

02:00:30.000 And I got to agree with you.

02:00:32.000 Some of it, they should do a case-by-case basis.

02:00:34.000 But a lot of it, though, is this woke stuff that would, like, take your breath away.

02:00:38.000 I mean, research into transgender mice.

02:00:41.000 I mean, it was just...

02:00:42.000 The U.S. taxpayer dollars should be funding that?

02:00:44.000 See, I called that out on my show.

02:00:46.000 That was bull.

02:00:47.000 It wasn't transgender. 0.98

02:00:49.000 See, that worries me about you, Charlie.

02:00:52.000 You seem to have swallowed that one whole, like a snake does a mouse, without looking into it.

02:00:59.000 It was transgenic mice.

02:01:00.000 Oh, I'm sorry.

02:01:01.000 It was not.

02:01:02.000 But it's hugely different.

02:01:04.000 Transgender. That's just going along with what the mob thinks. 1.00

02:01:08.000 It wasn't.

02:01:09.000 He got it wrong, and no one was around to tell him that he got it wrong.

02:01:14.000 He just went with it.

02:01:16.000 Transgender. It wasn't transgender. 1.00

02:01:18.000 It was transgenic.

02:01:20.000 They were studying mice for health reasons, serious cancer-solving reasons.

02:01:26.000 Nothing to do with transgender. 0.97

02:01:29.000 I stand corrected on that.

02:01:31.000 Okay. But...

02:01:33.000 But a lot of these universities have superfluous...

02:01:42.000 I want to see the body politic become Christian, but I want the Constitution to be our North Star. 0.75

02:01:55.000 Not by coercion.

02:01:56.000 No, because that's not love, that's force.

02:01:58.000 Okay. We as Christians believe you should voluntarily use your agency, give your life to Christ.

02:02:04.000 And you...

02:02:07.000 Think that someday we all will get on the train there?

02:02:10.000 I don't know if I'm optimistic or pessimistic.

02:02:13.000 I don't know.

02:02:13.000 It's tough.

02:02:14.000 The church rates are going down.

02:02:16.000 Right. I mean, we're seeing a little bit of a plateauing there.

02:02:19.000 Your side's been winning, Bill, the last 20 years.

02:02:22.000 You know, you're going to be tired of all the winning.

02:02:24.000 That's all I'm going to say.

02:02:26.000 And then finally we talk about the question, would church attendance going up make the world a better place?

02:02:30.000 Of course it would.

02:02:32.000 It's a very simple question.

02:02:33.000 If you're walking down an alley at night Have a hypothetical.

02:02:38.000 Would you rather have five guys come towards you that just got out of the bar, gambling and drinking all night, or five guys coming towards you that just got out of a Bible study?

02:02:48.000 Which five guys would you rather run into?

02:02:51.000 Are you cheering for those church rates to go down?

02:02:54.000 Yes. You think it would make the world a better place?

02:02:57.000 I do.

02:02:57.000 Has it made Europe better?

02:02:58.000 The idea that you think we need Christianity as the pillar here to hold up this edifice, that I can't agree with.

02:03:06.000 But I think you could agree that there's a Christian inheritance that is unique.

02:03:11.000 And that's Tom Holland's argument, who's an atheist. 0.84

02:03:13.000 That's true.

02:03:14.000 And that there's something we've inherited.

02:03:17.000 Well, what we do know is that the ideas of the Enlightenment were...

02:03:22.000 I mean, you know, obviously Rousseau and...

02:03:28.000 John Locke and the people here in America.

02:03:31.000 He was very Christian.

02:03:32.000 Yeah, Christian.

02:03:33.000 I mean, Christianity to varying degrees.

02:03:36.000 Again, deism.

02:03:37.000 Again, Thomas Jefferson taking his miracles out of the Bible.

02:03:42.000 But that's the basic tradition.

02:03:44.000 It is a Western tradition that we seem to have to always apologize for. 0.92

02:03:48.000 I'm sorry.

02:03:49.000 No, no, no, I'm not.

02:03:50.000 No, I'm joking.

02:03:51.000 But no, if America was 81% Christian or 81% Islamic, which... 0.85

02:03:57.000 What's a better country?

02:04:00.000 Yes. According to the ideals I believe in, if you think faith, and I know you do, is the most important thing, you might think Islam. 0.92

02:04:10.000 But I happen to think freedom is the most important thing.

02:04:14.000 Personal liberty.

02:04:16.000 Again, human rights, rule of law, scientific inquiry, democracy, freedom of speech, all these things.

02:04:26.000 Which are absent much more in those societies than the society I live in.

02:04:31.000 All right, Charlie.

02:04:33.000 Okay. Deep down, I think Bill Maher, even though he is a liberal, wants to do good.

02:04:38.000 My open question to him, and for atheists watching this video, what is good? 0.99

02:04:42.000 By what definition do you measure it?

02:04:45.000 Because you might be hearkening back to Christian ethics and Christian morality.

02:04:49.000 The final point.

02:04:50.000 That I will say if I ever meet Bill Maher again is, Bill, I know you want to defend the West.

02:04:55.000 You talk about defending Western civilization, which I admire.

02:04:58.000 I agree.

02:04:59.000 And we did agree that Christianity gave us Western civilization.

02:05:03.000 So he loves Western civilization, but he hates the thing that gave us Western civilization, which is Christianity. 0.98

02:05:11.000 With that, I thank you guys for watching this video.

02:05:13.000 Subscribe. Leave us some comments.

02:05:16.000 Again, I had to play as the visitor here on the away team.

02:05:20.000 I decided to make it a friendly, magnanimous conversation.

02:05:25.000 I hope I'm never that close to marijuana or weed again.

02:05:28.000 But with that, thank you guys.

02:05:29.000 God bless you.

02:05:30.000 A lot more that I could say and will say about the proofs of God from the fine-tuning, from space, time, and matter put into existence by a spaceless, timeless, and all-knowing being, which of course is a proof of God, or that time had a start, or the ontological perspective of God,

02:05:47.000 all that to say.

02:05:48.000 I just hope all of you give your life to Jesus.

02:05:50.000 Jesus saves.

02:05:51.000 God bless.

02:05:52.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

02:05:54.000 Email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - April 23, 2025

The Bill Maher Interview — My Full Reaction

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